Military Review

The company-owner of Sea Launch appreciated the restoration of the floating cosmodrome

90
The company-owner of Sea Launch appreciated the restoration of the floating cosmodrome

The costs of restoring launches from the Sea Launch floating cosmodrome may amount to 29 billion rubles. This is the conclusion reached by the specialists of the S7 group of companies, which own the cosmodrome. This is reported by "RIA News"citing a source in the rocket and space industry.


According to the source, the S7 company estimated the restoration of launches from the Sea Launch cosmodrome at 29 billion rubles, of which 15 billion will be spent on repairing and modernizing the launch platform and creating a new light rocket. At the same time, the agency's interlocutor clarified that another 14 billion rubles have already been spent. They went to buy a floating spaceport, transport it to Russia and solve other problems associated with the project.

Deputy Prime Minister Yuri Borisov said that the preliminary amount for the restoration of Sea Launch is about 35 billion rubles. Meanwhile, Rosatom has estimated the restoration of launches from Sea Launch at 84 billion rubles in 2020 prices - or 91 billion rubles in forecasted prices, taking into account inflation.

Earlier it became known that the Development Center of the S7 group of companies will develop a light launch vehicle with a reversible first stage, work on it has already begun. The developments on the new rocket will be used to produce a medium-class launch vehicle that will be launched from a floating cosmodrome. Development details were not disclosed.

It should be noted that earlier the Zenit rocket, which was produced at the Ukrainian Yuzhmash, was launched from the Sea Launch, but since 2014 the assembly of the missiles has stopped due to the lack of Russian components at the enterprise. At the same time, Roskosmos announced the development of the Soyuz-5 (Irtysh) rocket to replace Zenit. The first test launch of the Irtysh is scheduled for 2023, the launch will take place from the Baikonur cosmodrome.
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  1. tralflot1832
    tralflot1832 1 October 2020 10: 22
    -9
    Everyone willingly believes in this "baida", that the S 7 is the sole owner. Everything is done very beautifully. From there something will fly, that "Mask" will shudder. hi
    1. Invoce
      Invoce 1 October 2020 10: 40
      0
      Quote: tralflot1832
      of the S7 group of companies will develop a light launch vehicle with a reversible first stage.

      Someone's financial interest is behind all these projects. S7 is not a single beneficiary company. Someone expects to receive a state order for the creation of a carrier rocket for Sea Launch, and this is not a trifle in his pocket. But no matter how it turned out the same as with Buran. Plans are plans, but there is no money. Ended up. Or with a spaceport in Svobodny. Planned one amount to create, it cost much more, and half was stolen
      1. tralflot1832
        tralflot1832 1 October 2020 11: 02
        +1
        Until budget money is poured in, there is no cause for concern!
    2. ALARI
      ALARI 1 October 2020 11: 13
      -1
      When it flies, then we will shudder, if only not with laughter (the robot Fyodor is our honorary cosmonaut). And so far, only we are trembling, when we make launches, it will not fall.
      1. slipped
        slipped 1 October 2020 14: 53
        +1
        It hasn't been falling for two years now, and you're still trembling? :) That's what Fedor is laughing at you.
        1. ALARI
          ALARI 1 October 2020 15: 26
          -1
          Why should I tremble, let the responsible ones tremble, they brought the industry to this. But they also fell for very interesting reasons. And according to Fedor, do you yourself think it absurd to find him in orbit?
          1. slipped
            slipped 1 October 2020 17: 36
            +1
            Quote: ALARI
            Why should I shiver


            You are not consistent, then you tremble, declaring "we are trembling", then you declare the exact opposite. :)

            Quote: ALARI
            But they also fell for very interesting reasons.


            Everyone who falls has interesting reasons. Here in China and the United States fell recently interesting.

            Quote: ALARI
            according to Fedor, do you yourself think it absurd to find him in orbit?


            No. During the experiment "Tester" interesting results were obtained, which will then be used further.
  2. Alien From
    Alien From 1 October 2020 10: 23
    -6
    It is not entirely clear, in reality, (and not in wet dreams), why do we need this miracle ???
  3. KVU-NSVD
    KVU-NSVD 1 October 2020 10: 23
    +2
    may amount to 29 billion rubles
    is about 35 billion rubles.
    "estimated the restoration of launches from Sea Launch at 84 billion rubles in 2020 prices - or 91 billion rubles in forecasted prices, taking into account inflation.
    I wonder how much this adventure will cost as a result?
    1. Serg koma
      Serg koma 1 October 2020 12: 21
      +2
      Quote: KVU-NSVD
      may amount to 29 billion rubles
      is about 35 billion rubles.
      "estimated the restoration of launches from Sea Launch at 84 billion rubles in 2020 prices - or 91 billion rubles in forecasted prices, taking into account inflation.
      I wonder how much this adventure will cost as a result?

      - We have received a principal decision from the US regulatory authorities for the purchase of the property complex of the Sea Launch project. In particular, permission has been obtained from the US State Department. We expect that the deal will be closed at the end of the 2018st - the beginning of the XNUMXnd quarter of XNUMX.

      - How much has already been invested in the project and what investments will still be required?

      The total investment in the acquisition of the Sea Launch cosmodrome, including its decommissioning, is about $ 150 million. The issue of attracting any additional funds has not yet been discussed.
      infa from the s7space office site for February 13, 2018. "Put" Home> News> S7 is ready to concession the Russian segment of the ISS

      $ 150 (Total investment, withdrawal from conservation) × 000 rubles (at the Moscow Exchange rate as of 000) = 11 608 500 000 rubles in the prices of TODAY, taking into account the growth of the dollar, which (growth) can be partially taken into account in the repayment of "annual inflation in Russia", while "attracting any additional funds while not being discussed", ie 150 million dollars is quite enough.
      29 billion rubles / 11.6085 billion rubles = 2,498
      35 billion rubles / 11,6085 billion rubles = 3,015
      84 billion rubles / 11.6085 billion rubles = 7,236
      91 billion rubles / 11,6085 billion rubles = 7,839
      As in a taxi - "the further / higher" the official, the more expensive.
      This is not the highest mathematics for you and all sorts of resistance materials - this is the "HIGHEST" arithmetic tongue .
  4. Dude
    Dude 1 October 2020 10: 24
    +4
    The development center of the S7 group of companies will develop a light launch vehicle with a reversible first stage, work on it has already begun.

    Filev - our Elon Musk? wassat
    S7 is developing a rocket?
    I recall the immortal words of Stanislavsky ...
    S7 has estimated the restoration of launches from the Sea Launch cosmodrome at 29 billion rubles ...
    Yuri Borisov said that the preliminary amount for the restoration of Sea Launch is about 35 billion rubles ...
    Rosatom has estimated the restoration of launches from Sea Launch at 84 billion rubles in 2020 prices - or 91 billion rubles in forecasted prices

    Judging by the range of prices, it all looks like a grand drank ...
    1. pereselenec
      pereselenec 1 October 2020 10: 33
      0
      Quote: Dude
      Filev - our Elon Musk?


      No, our Elon Musk has already been captured and neutralized.

      1. voyaka uh
        voyaka uh 1 October 2020 11: 30
        +3
        There are Russian "Elon Masks", but they have long moved to Silicon Valley.
        Sikorski's example is very convincing.
        In Russia, perhaps, they will give something to develop, but then they will squeeze out all the money
        and factories, if you don't feed a hundred high officials, bow to them all
        and agree with all their delusions.
        As long as this situation persists, production geniuses will not appear.
        1. Dude
          Dude 1 October 2020 14: 57
          +3
          Sikorski's example is very convincing
          IMHO, to compare Sikorsky and Mask, Russia in the early 20th century. and Russia at the beginning of the 21st is incorrect.
          In addition, Sikorsky was a brilliant design engineer and inventor, and Musk was just a talented rogue. Okay, still a talented organizer and businessman. Different specialization, different personality scale.
          And how does the "convincing example of Sikorsky" differ from the convincing examples of, say, Myasishchev, Kurchatov, or Chelomey?
          In Russia, perhaps, they will give something to develop, but then they will squeeze out all the money
          and factories
          Not without it sad
    2. Serg koma
      Serg koma 1 October 2020 13: 30
      0
      Quote: Dude
      S7 is developing a rocket?

      Cool, ISS plans to "privatize"
      General Director of S7 Space Transport Systems Sergey Sopov - excerpts from interviews in 2018.

      - Will the rocket be assembled in America?
      - Yes, Yuzhmash supplies the first two stages of Zenit to the United States, and final assembly will take place there. This is provided for by the interstate agreement between the United States and Russia. And there are corresponding licenses for this from the government agencies of the United States.
      - How many years will the ordered number of missiles last?
      - We have formed a start-up program until 2023 inclusive. For the project to reach self-sufficiency, it is necessary to carry out 3-4 starts per year. The ordered Zenits should be enough for us until the creation of the Soyuz-5 rocket, that is, until the end of 2022

      - It turns out that you want to become the operator of the Russian segment of the ISS?
      - Yes, we intend go to Roscosmos with a proposal to hand over the Russian part of the station to us in concession.
      - When can this happen?
      - After the restoration of the launch activities of the Sea Launch project, that is, in 2022–2024. Now we are talking about a possible shutdown of the ISS in 2024,
      and we suggest one of the possible ways of further using the station - as an alternative to flooding.
  5. Livonetc
    Livonetc 1 October 2020 10: 27
    +2
    "Meanwhile, Rosatom has estimated the restoration of launches from Sea Launch at 84 billion rubles in 2020 prices - or 91 billion rubles in forecasted prices, taking into account inflation."
    Where are these numbers.
    We are all hearing about small and controlled inflation.
    1. And
      And 1 October 2020 10: 56
      +2
      Yes, they always had trouble with numbers, so the Central Bank predicts inflation in 2021 max. in 4%, it turns out about 87,4 billion, not 91. Something does not add up, someone is lying.
  6. Narak-zempo
    Narak-zempo 1 October 2020 10: 28
    -5
    I believe that we need to build a new platform capable of carrying heavy and super-heavy missiles, incl. for manned launches, and also accept vertically landing steps better than the Musk barge.
    1. viktor_ui
      viktor_ui 1 October 2020 10: 44
      +3
      what does the trampoline do not suit you? fellow
    2. Serg koma
      Serg koma 1 October 2020 14: 02
      0
      Russian "Sea Launch" recognized as unstoppable
      23 2020 June
      Russian floating cosmodrome Sea Launch without government support will not be self-sufficient. This conclusion was reached in the department of investment management and management of support for new businesses of Rosatom, RIA Novosti reports.
  7. Fungus
    Fungus 1 October 2020 10: 30
    0
    Let them restore. The future belongs to space.
  8. Blue fox
    Blue fox 1 October 2020 10: 37
    +3
    Sorry. On March 25, 2019, Mr. Rogozin announced that
    Roscosmos General Director Dmitry Rogozin said that the construction of the Vostochny cosmodrome in the Amur Region cost 91,9 billion rubles.
    According to Rogozin, the construction of the Vostochny cosmodrome has already been completed, but some facilities cannot be commissioned due to the lack of financial reporting.

    “91,9 billion rubles were spent, the amount of unprocessed advances was 25,2 billion, that is, what there are no securities for,” Rogozin said.
    https://riafan.ru/1163708-rogozin-raskryl-stoimost-stroitelstva-kosmodroma-vostochnyi
    This is what it turns out, for the money from the purchase of the Sea Launch and its finishing to the mind, you can build at least a second launch on the Vostochny and other ground infrastructure facilities in addition to the existing ones, which would allow you to engage in parallel preparation for launch and launches from several launch vehicles. Or even build another cosmodrome in similar conditions, but for lighter types of launch vehicles ...
    1. yehat2
      yehat2 1 October 2020 10: 59
      0
      the meaning of the floating cosmodrome is not to launch on the territory of the Russian Federation, so that it would be much cheaper.
      1. Blue fox
        Blue fox 1 October 2020 11: 16
        +1
        Quote: yehat2
        the meaning of the floating cosmodrome is not to launch on the territory of the Russian Federation, so that it would be much cheaper.

        Thanks. I know about the technical benefits in terms of less fuel required, more payload to be deployed, all other things being equal, and more convenient launch into some orbits. But it is also much cheaper when we have a bunch of customers who want to carry out launches with the withdrawal of their spacecraft, the weather allows, nearby there is a convenient and "own" place-port where you can hide from bad weather, carry out maintenance work and carry out other logistics. That is, to pay for swinging the platform back and forth under the suddenly appeared launches and not to pay "space" money for its sucks in a foreign port (with friends in the world, we are now not that good). But at this stage we have big problems with all this! Lord, yes, we have, first of all, with priority projects-launches of LV with the withdrawal of spacecraft from stationary ground launch complexes from the point of view of defense and security (for example, with the withdrawal and maintenance of a sufficient grouping of spacecraft for navigation and reconnaissance), the projects are not going as planned initially.
        1. yehat2
          yehat2 1 October 2020 12: 14
          -2
          why should a floating spaceport just wait for launches?
          can't it be used for other purposes as well?
          it's just a huge floating warehouse and it can be useful.
          1. Alexey RA
            Alexey RA 1 October 2020 13: 02
            0
            Quote: yehat2
            why should a floating spaceport just wait for launches?
            can't it be used for other purposes as well?
            it's just a huge floating warehouse and it can be useful.

            Exactly - let him carry used cars from Japan. And when the grandmothers are repulsed to buy and repair it, then you can think about space. smile
            1. yehat2
              yehat2 1 October 2020 13: 04
              0
              jokes aside, but at least you can make an oceanographic station or a submarine base or a reconnaissance center or just a logistics center, and at least for transferring cargo to Antarctica - the range of applications is huge.
              Surely, such a base can also help the Chinese.
              1. Serg koma
                Serg koma 1 October 2020 14: 26
                0
                Quote: yehat2
                Surely, such a base can also help the Chinese.

                And how much should such a "base" earn in order for the debit / credit to reach the level of return on investment + depreciation (and other) costs ???
                The same Chinese will build ten bases on the basis of super tankers - and the lease of such a Chinese "base" will be much cheaper than re-equipping the Sea Launch sea segment for purposes other than space launches.
                Do you have any idea of ​​the Sea Launch COMPLEX?
                The Sea Launch rocket and space complex consists of the following main parts.

                Rocket segment:
                space rocket complex;
                complex of automated control systems for preparation and launch;
                automated flight control system of the upper stage;
                measuring complex.
                Spacecraft segment:
                payload block with spacecraft.
                Marine segment of the complex Sea Launch consists of two sea vessels:

                Launch platform "Odyssey"
                Assembly-command ship "Sea Launch Commander"
                Base port:
                payload block preparation rooms;
                storage rooms for the stages of the launch vehicle and upper stages;
                office and auxiliary premises.
                Attracted funds:
                Upper Stage Flight Control Center;
                spacecraft flight control center;
                repeater satellites, measuring points, etc.

                And you have to pay for EVERYTHING to keep it in working order.
                1. yehat2
                  yehat2 1 October 2020 14: 46
                  0
                  Well, that's not all - you also need supplies.
                  however, I don’t think that a stationary platform or vessel is worth anything beyond.
                  In addition, on earth, too, all this is not free, if the cosmodrome is there,
                  and transportation by sea is generally cheaper.
  9. viktor_ui
    viktor_ui 1 October 2020 10: 41
    0
    it will be like with the Vostochny cosmodrome ... the loot will be mastered and at the exit PSHSHIK. It all looks more like a chumadan without a handle. Once again I ask, what kind of electronic stuffing of the management is going to be crammed by Deputy Prime Minister Yuri Borisov into this iron floating structure instead of the one dismantled by the Americans? Do we have any experience in managing the hardware of such platforms?
  10. Lord_Bran
    Lord_Bran 1 October 2020 10: 44
    0
    To hell with her, with the platform. It's a good thing. But what will fly from it? Angara? Or will Zenith finish? This is the most important question.
    1. viktor_ui
      viktor_ui 1 October 2020 10: 56
      -1
      A good deed should be done by professionals in their field ... sorry for tuftoalogy wassat In the meantime, we see eccentrics who are very fond of mastering the budget ... a crawling robofedor with an arrow-antenna in its iron ass is an example of their ebullient activity wassat
      1. Lord_Bran
        Lord_Bran 1 October 2020 15: 19
        0
        I disagree. Sea launch is a necessary and interesting project. Everything rests on the cargo carrier rocket.
  11. yehat2
    yehat2 1 October 2020 10: 59
    +1
    some unrealistic costs and I still do not understand after what cataclysm the cosmodrome is being restored, which has already carried out launches.
    1. slipped
      slipped 1 October 2020 15: 02
      +2
      Quote: yehat2
      after what cataclysm the cosmodrome is being restored, which has already carried out launches.

      The foreign components of the control system of the entire complex were removed, there is no launch vehicle for launching from this start.
  12. Victorio
    Victorio 1 October 2020 11: 00
    +1
    Interestingly s7 bought everything for my own money? leafed through the info, there is no single point of view about the prospects.
    1. Blackmokona
      Blackmokona 1 October 2020 11: 06
      -1
      S7 had a simple plan.
      They took out a loan, bought a cosmodrome on a loan, ordered rockets from Ukraine on credit, where, by agreement with the Russian authorities, components from Russia were to be received. Then they yank clients out of Musk's long line and fire off rocket after rocket, while Rosskosmos makes a large stack of reusable rockets on their behalf.
      But the agreements with the authorities went down the toilet, the components did not go to Ukraine. In the meantime, we were spinning here and there trying to solve this, Musk completely launched his entire turn and began to greedily search for customers and the plan for finding customers also went into the trash.
      1. Victorio
        Victorio 1 October 2020 11: 08
        0
        Quote: BlackMokona
        S7 had a simple plan.

        ===
        it was necessary to play it safe after all. here the question is, was there any state money?
        1. Blackmokona
          Blackmokona 1 October 2020 11: 17
          -2
          S7 bought a sea launch from the state.
          In fact, privatization. Naturally, no one gave the state money for this S7. Moreover, it was immediately clear to the state that the promised components would not go. It was S7 who could believe the assurances.
          1. Victorio
            Victorio 1 October 2020 11: 20
            0
            Quote: BlackMokona
            S7 bought sea launch at the state.
            In fact, privatization. Naturally, no one gave the state money for this S7. Moreover, it was immediately clear to the state that the promised components would not go. It was S7 who could believe the assurances.

            ===
            owner yes, but there were still a lot of creditors
            1. Blackmokona
              Blackmokona 1 October 2020 11: 52
              -2
              S7 has an aviation business, planes will be squeezed out if anything. You can be calm for creditors
              1. Victorio
                Victorio 1 October 2020 11: 53
                0
                Quote: BlackMokona
                S7 has an aviation business, planes will be squeezed out if anything. You can be calm for creditors

                ===
                okay thank you.
              2. yehat2
                yehat2 1 October 2020 13: 07
                0
                leasing machines will squeeze out? laughing
          2. slipped
            slipped 1 October 2020 15: 12
            -1
            Quote: BlackMokona
            S7 could believe the assurances.

            Interestingly, the Exolonch company, which is proud of its cooperation with Roscosmos in its ride-ball missions, does not say anything about any "assurances" there, but quietly launches dozens of satellites and even invests its money in the development of new technologies for launching spacecraft from Frigate.

            1. Blackmokona
              Blackmokona 1 October 2020 19: 00
              -2
              This is not a Russian company and they are already running across to Musk, he offers cheaper than at the Unions under a new program of passing loads for Starlinks
              1. slipped
                slipped 1 October 2020 19: 26
                0
                Quote: BlackMokona
                This is not a Russian company and they are already running across to Mask,


                Who told you that? laughing We have great cooperation. And many interesting plans. Next launch soon.

                Quote: BlackMokona
                it offers cheaper than on the Unions under the new program of passing loads for Starlinks


                No. Glavkosmos offers a great price. laughing And much more interesting. Many new contracts.
                1. Blackmokona
                  Blackmokona 1 October 2020 19: 35
                  -2
                  In a couple of years we will see the situation in real life.
                  1. slipped
                    slipped 1 October 2020 22: 01
                    0
                    Well yes, well yes laughing this magical "couple of years"
  13. Roman13579
    Roman13579 1 October 2020 12: 03
    -1
    29 billion rubles, of which 15 billion will go to repair and modernize the launch platform and create a new light rocket .... another 14 billion rubles have already been spent.


    Oh again ..))
  14. 16112014nk
    16112014nk 1 October 2020 13: 01
    0
    From the media: "Russian officials steal from the budget at a rate of 5 million rubles in 10 minutes."
    No Elon Musk can get away.
  15. Whirlwind
    Whirlwind 1 October 2020 13: 07
    -1
    If, as the genius of all times and peoples, visionary Musk, threatens, he launches 30 of his Internet satellites, then we will pay. But if we launch 000 of our satellites, America, led by Musk, will weep. The whole question is, who will be the first to have time ..?
    But seriously. A sea launch from the equator has an unconditional head start in terms of the payload and its cost, which is required and should be the last idiots, having such an opportunity, not to use it.
    1. Blackmokona
      Blackmokona 1 October 2020 19: 01
      -2
      Does not have, Sea Launch has already gone bankrupt twice, unable to withstand competition with missiles, which lost the competition of Falcon-9
      1. Whirlwind
        Whirlwind 2 October 2020 07: 14
        0
        It has. The withdrawal of PN from the equator was and is the most beneficial for any launch vehicles.
        Everything related to the Mask and his Falcons and other projects smells bad of bribery. In a specific case, dumping in the space launch market.
        Competition is always competitive wars, and there all means are good, because, as the winner is in profit and he is very rarely judged ...
        1. Blackmokona
          Blackmokona 2 October 2020 08: 29
          -2
          What does Musk have to do with it? Sea launch lost to the Soyuz, Protons and Arians.
          The maintenance of the floating cosmodrome, its delivery to the equator and back and other expenses have killed the project twice already. Before the appearance of the Mask on the market
          1. Whirlwind
            Whirlwind 2 October 2020 10: 48
            0
            Unions and Protons, their components and maintenance are made by our specialists, who probably never dreamed of salaries of foreign specialists, but these are the salaries that were paid earlier to Sea Launch employees and its creators. And another important question, who was credited and how? All this is included in the PN price.
            Arians actually start from the most vantage point. French Guiana is almost at the equator. And if the Russian Sea Launch is based, for example, in Venezuela, then we will still see who goes bankrupt first, MS or Musk with "his" SpaceX.
            1. Blackmokona
              Blackmokona 2 October 2020 11: 18
              -2
              Previously, the money was given by Boeing as the main owner. Now S7 is on loans from Russian banks. Now it is radically worse.
              If you think that you can save a lot on the crew, you are wrong, in the maritime business salaries have long been globalized and Russian first-class sailors can easily work on foreign ships. Therefore, you will have to pay the same.
              If you are based in Venezuela, you have to pay a lot of money to Venezuela, carry people on a business trip to Venezuela, deliver missiles across the planet to Venezuela, etc. All this will go into the price of starting PN.
              Well, S7 announced the price. 70 million for the launch. Musk is now offering 50 million for a more powerful rocket than the Zenith from the equator.
              1. Whirlwind
                Whirlwind 2 October 2020 14: 18
                0
                The fact of the matter is that in America loans are issued at a rate of 0,25%, and in Russia 4,5%. Our money is 18 more expensive for borrowers, but this is a payment for the loss of sovereignty in 1991 and the surrender of the USSR to the United States. There is for that to fight with the United States and in this fight there are good prospects for our economy, astronautics, and for the MS as well.
                Clearly, the MC will conduct launches from the equator. We can agree on a common benefit with Venezuela, if the light does not converge on Venezuela.
                The hot problem is the US economic sanctions, but this is not the main thing ...
                The main thing, and for everyone without exception, is that in just four years of Trump's rule, the US debt has grown by 5 unsecured terabucks!
                What are the problems of shedding dollar rain on Max? You have to put this electronic waste paper somewhere. Yes, he can dump Roscosmos as he wants and even
                do not take money for your launches at all, and at the same time its capitalization will only grow! She grows ...

                MiracleTesla
                Capitalization 400 billion!
                Net income.
                2016 - (minus!) 773 mln.
                2017 - (minus!) 2.2 billion
                2018 - (minus!) 1 billion
                2019 - (minus!) 775 mln.
                Average for four years - (minus!) 1.2billion THIS IS HOW TO UNDERSTAND ..!?!?

                Our Gazprom
                Capitalization 51.5 billion. EIGHT TIMES LESS!
                Net income.
                2016 14.9billion!
                2017 13.1billion!
                2018 24.3billion!
                2019 19.6billion!
                Average over four years 18bn !!!!

                And at this time Tesla? inferred by Falcon? flies to Mars ..?
                And the whole World is flying into the abyss after the Crazy States.
                "Prosperous" Musk to help this country bankrupt.
                And it's time for Russia to undock ...
                1. Blackmokona
                  Blackmokona 2 October 2020 15: 20
                  -2
                  Let's slow down and don't throw everything in a heap.
                  No rain of dollars is expected over Mask. His competitors have far better connections than him. He even has the right to sell his cars not in all states, and you are here about such things as coming closer to the machine.
                  Well, according to Tesla, compare incomes and their growth. It’s income, not profit.
                  Musk's business is growing very quickly, and this growth makes investors run to him waving dollars.
                  1. Whirlwind
                    Whirlwind 2 October 2020 17: 27
                    0
                    By and large, Musk's non-profit office replicates Trump's state office in miniature. Trump also has a budget with a constantly growing deficit, the machine is plowing, but the dollar is growing. Everything and everything is laid and re-laid in a hundred rows.
                    Both keep afloat due to the avalanche-like infusion of greenery and complete indifference.
                    That way, before the Mask's cart has time to roll to Mars, we will all fly off at the cosmus ...
                    Before it's too late to undock with the Crazy States, Musk will help them.
                    1. Blackmokona
                      Blackmokona 2 October 2020 19: 23
                      -2
                      The last 4 quarters in Tesla, the profit is net
                      1. Whirlwind
                        Whirlwind 2 October 2020 20: 13
                        0
                        I gave you the above data for four years on the net profit for Tesla, everything is in the red.
                        Now the US GDP has dropped by 33%, which is twice as much as in Europe. Unemployment flew to the top, and Tesla has a profit, and even a net one ..?!
                        Well, if only Musk is 400 kg. "moon" stones vparivaet gramme for a lemon to his mask fans.
                      2. Blackmokona
                        Blackmokona 2 October 2020 21: 09
                        -2
                        It's just that his income continues to grow.
                        We just made another production report. Sales and production have skyrocketed.
                        https://www.kommersant.ru/doc/4518762
                      3. Whirlwind
                        Whirlwind 3 October 2020 07: 29
                        0
                        "... For example, from June to July 2020, the capitalization of the electric car manufacturer Tesla Motors increased by 60%. But during this time, the company did NOT have new assets!, It did NOT start earning more! And did NOT pay off its debts!"
                        Capitalization grew only on trust !? investors to the company and their faith !? into future business growth ???
                        Therefore, capitalization is NOT always suitable for business valuation and fair value of shares ... "

                        Blessed is he who believes ...
                      4. Blackmokona
                        Blackmokona 3 October 2020 07: 40
                        -2
                        Again, let's take the steps.
                        Capitalization is the number of shares multiplied by their value.
                        The market determines the price of a share, like the price of any product or service.
                        The definition is simple. For $ 99 they are ready to buy, for $ 101 they are ready to sell. This means the equilibrium price of $ 100 on the exchange.
                        Why the business valuation rose sharply, you need to look at the news that came out then. Which led that the shareholders were not ready to sell at the old prices, and the buyers agree to much higher prices?
                        The basis for growth this year was profit despite the coronavirus and the closure of quarantine factories. That all Tesla's competitors crap loudly and released very weak machines that lost the competition to Tesla. That Tesla continued to grow despite the global economic crisis. Etc.
                        The company against the background of the surrounding disaster is like a beacon of salvation for the denyuzhki, so they run to a calm bay.
                      5. Whirlwind
                        Whirlwind 3 October 2020 17: 59
                        0
                        At Musk, with your submission, a new klikuha - a beacon of salvation ...
                        Alas, the market has not defined anything for a long time. It is determined by the owners of money, i.e. banks and stock exchanges is reality, and the market economy within the framework of which you think is an illusion.
                        Today, the total debt of all countries is equal to four world GDP!
                        "Who owes whom, he is a slave."
                      6. Blackmokona
                        Blackmokona 3 October 2020 19: 44
                        -2
                        Most of the total debt is mutual debt. In some situations, it comes down to fun. For example, the Fed owns $ 7 trillion in US debt. At the same time, the FRS is directly subordinate to the President of the United States, he appoints the leaders of the FRS personally.
                      7. Whirlwind
                        Whirlwind 4 October 2020 05: 08
                        0
                        In theory, mutual offset has been asking for a long time, then there will be mere crumbs. But then the strings and ropes of their power over the world will slip out of the hands of the banksters, which is like death for them ...
                        Regarding the Fed's subordination to Trump, who is in fact only a senior manager, I disagree. Although he appoints, but only after coordination with the real authorities ...
                        The "private trader" Musk, who also allegedly muddied the gag in space for the benefit of humanity, is also on a short leash with the Wall Street bankers ...
                        These are the rules in the deceitful country of the World, the most free from all shame and conscience.
                      8. Blackmokona
                        Blackmokona 4 October 2020 07: 09
                        -2
                        Offsetting does not work a little, because the securities have different conditions on them.
                        That is, let's imagine that Germany owes France a trillion at 0.2% for 5 years, and France to Germany at 0.22% for 10 years. And now the papers are no longer normally canceled
                        This is already cospirology, which needs to be proved with facts. Trump appoints the head of the Fed and directors, which means he dominates the Fed. The Fed is also subject to US laws. And you can always send special services to the Fed's office.
                        And why isn't Musk a private trader? Even now, he cannot receive the lion's share of the state order.
                        60% of military launches went to ULA (Boeing and Lockheed)
                        For the delivery of people to the ISS, they pay him much less than Boeing.
                        Much less for delivering cargo to the ISS than Northrop
                        Even for the development of the Lunar landing mod, he was simply given crumbs in comparison with those issued to some nouns and National Tim (Northrop with Amazon under the sign of Blue Origin)
                        At the same time, Musk still launches more than 50% of US launches, and owns more satellites than any country in the world. If you count it as a separate one,
                      9. Whirlwind
                        Whirlwind 4 October 2020 08: 59
                        0
                        Those. Can't Mask subsidize the Pentagon and NASA in order to give Roscosmos a ride? Are the competitive wars over? Sanctions lifted and apologized for? And finally, that the United States has run out of ink and paper, even toilet paper, to print fake Fed dollars?
                      10. Blackmokona
                        Blackmokona 4 October 2020 09: 01
                        -2
                        1) No, because they subsidize ULA (Boeing Union with Lockheed)
                        2) Competition is the norm, who has better technology, organization, etc.
                        3) Sanctions on missile launches do not apply. Oniveb is still preparing for launches at the Soyuz
                        4) The dollars made by the Fed are real. After all, the Fed is the organization that issues dollars.
                      11. Whirlwind
                        Whirlwind 4 October 2020 09: 06
                        0
                        Everything is so from the point of view of a person who believes in a market economy.
                        But our economy has long been not a market one, but a banking one, and these are two fundamentally different systems.
                      12. Blackmokona
                        Blackmokona 4 October 2020 09: 07
                        -2
                        In Western countries, banks have long been relegated to the level of filth. You won't earn much with an interest rate of 0.25%.
                      13. Whirlwind
                        Whirlwind 4 October 2020 09: 13
                        0
                        Everything goes to the fact that everyone will work directly with central banks, and they will simply save on commercial banks. The concentration of capital-power in its logical conclusion ...
                      14. Blackmokona
                        Blackmokona 4 October 2020 10: 06
                        -2
                        You can't do that here. It's like with monopolies. They seem to be the logical next step of private capital, only now their effectiveness falls below the plinth. The same situation with the Central Bank. It seems that he should not feed everyone directly with money, but in no way. Since the bureaucrats in the Central Bank will quickly begin cuts and kickbacks of absolutely insane proportions. And so they are shackled by commercial banks, with private owners bearing private risks and only borrowing money from the Central Bank.
                      15. Whirlwind
                        Whirlwind 4 October 2020 15: 10
                        0
                        Madness is already taking on a global scale, because the global financial crisis is, first of all, a crisis of the world banking economy, like a fig leaf covered by the coronavirus pandemic.
                        In fact, ALL commercial banks, since their inception, are bankrupt due to fractional reserve. This is the madness of the world, banking economy, which the peoples mistakenly continue to consider a market economy ...
                      16. Blackmokona
                        Blackmokona 4 October 2020 17: 54
                        -2
                        And here is a classic mistake.
                        If the Central Bank gave 100 bucks and demanded 101 bucks back. This does not mean that it is impossible to return it in principle and all banks are doomed.
                        For example, there is bank A and bank B.
                        Each received $ 50 and distributed it in loans.
                        Bank A issued loans badly and went bankrupt, all its money went into the economy.
                        But Bank B issued loans well and got back not 50 bucks, but 70 bucks.
                        He spent 10 on himself, returned $ 50,5 to the Central Bank, and another $ 9,5 turned up on his accounts for future operations.
                        And in the economy, $ 40 settled, no longer controlled by the Central Bank or commercial banks.
                        The Central Bank printed its $ 100 and it was a little purple at a loss of $ 49,5.
                        He'll print some more.
                      17. Whirlwind
                        Whirlwind 4 October 2020 20: 52
                        0
                        A classic mistake in the phrase - "the bank gave". In fact, the bank took what it was interested in. I took a bail worth much more than the notorious "gave". I took it NOT in order to give it away. Since interest money DOES NOT exist in nature! the banker, as a result of the inevitable bankruptcy of the debtor, becomes the owner of the property of interest to him, in the limit of everything and everyone. This is the neo-slavery system of the banking economy in a pseudo-market wrapper. As they say - "The Earth was yours, but it is ours."
                        And hello to Musk's "private" bunch ...
                      18. Blackmokona
                        Blackmokona 4 October 2020 23: 36
                        -2
                        Banks have long since learned to work without collateral. After all, if you constantly demand collateral, then 99% of the business will simply pass by to competitors.
                        And the pledged property remains with the debtor and can easily be bought, lost or stolen.
                        For example, a mortgage, an apartment as collateral, a house collapsed, an apartment is lost.
                        The car was pledged, the car was stolen.
                        Or, for example, a number of apartments are pledged, and then it turns out that the debtor conspired with a bank employee and there were no apartments at all
                        Etc
                      19. Whirlwind
                        Whirlwind 5 October 2020 12: 14
                        0
                        Basel2, Basel3 canceled?
                        Thanks to the bankster economy, everything and everything has long been pledged and re-pledged with giblets.
                      20. Blackmokona
                        Blackmokona 5 October 2020 13: 15
                        -2
                        And how can they help, for example, not to get caught by scammers? wink
                      21. Whirlwind
                        Whirlwind 5 October 2020 17: 23
                        0
                        Fraudsters are big-bellied trifles, they were found in the market economy.
                        In the bankster economy everyone has already been caught by the banksters, because EVERYTHING! credit money in the world!
                      22. Blackmokona
                        Blackmokona 5 October 2020 19: 50
                        -2
                        Not all, I have already described, how some of the loan money turned into ordinary money.
                        In the example about $ 100.
                        And this does not affect such issues as bitcoin, local money, etc.
                      23. Whirlwind
                        Whirlwind 6 October 2020 09: 44
                        0
                        This in a market economy could be "not all and part" ...
                        There was no money left in the bankster economy.
                        The form is not important. The content is important, but it is deceitful in its essence.
                      24. Blackmokona
                        Blackmokona 6 October 2020 10: 24
                        -2
                        What is left, does the money in your pocket belong to the bank or to you?
                      25. Whirlwind
                        Whirlwind 6 October 2020 15: 42
                        0
                        There was no money left as a means of exchange, which is why the kaput came to the market.
                      26. Blackmokona
                        Blackmokona 6 October 2020 17: 33
                        -2
                        Well, you have your money in your pocket, can we make an exchange with it?
                      27. Whirlwind
                        Whirlwind 7 October 2020 07: 10
                        0
                        Doctor of Economics Valentin Yuryevich Katasonov, professor of MGIMO, can competently and intelligibly answer these questions of yours. There are his books and lectures. I recommend the book "On the interest on loans, adjudicated, reckless."
                      28. Blackmokona
                        Blackmokona 7 October 2020 07: 20
                        -2
                        I'm asking you, not him. He will not answer me in any way, and arguing with paper is no better than with a wall .. Please answer the question.
                      29. Whirlwind
                        Whirlwind 7 October 2020 12: 08
                        0
                        And I am not a doctor of economics or a professor, which I could explain. So strain yourself and still read or see if it can help?
  • slipped
    slipped 1 October 2020 13: 27
    -1
    An interesting excursion from a blogger on Sea Launch