Military Review

Sorry, unwashed Russia. Waste and costs

100

Will pay all



Global warming does not threaten Russia as much as most other countries. But we may well be the first to suffocate from our own waste. Millions of tons of garbage are spreading across the country worse than cockroaches in an old communal apartment, and the good intentions with which the projects "Ecology" and "Pure Russia" were once adopted, as well as a large-scale reform, will certainly lead us not to heaven.

The waste management reform, the so-called garbage reform, launched only in 2019, was decided to be promptly checked in the Accounts Chamber, which, according to its status, is primarily supposed to monitor the spending of budget funds. With this, things are not very good, but about money - a little below.

The conclusions of the RF JV auditors regarding the general situation with landfills, waste and their processing in the country as a whole turned out to be much more sad.

Sorry, unwashed Russia. Waste and costs

The report of the RF JV immediately notes that the beginning of the reform implementation practically did not change the situation with waste in Russia, which remains extremely unfavorable. As before, more than 90% of garbage is sent to landfills and landfills, no more than 7% of waste gets under any real recycling.

It seems that the COVID-19 pandemic and the strict quarantine measures taken because of it can serve as an excuse for the executors of the reform, the main of which is the Ministry of Natural Resources. But in this case, we can also remember that the implementation of the waste management reform in the country began a little over a year ago.

As you know, first of all, the federal project "Integrated MSW Management System", which has been in effect since 2019, was audited by auditors. He was supposed to solve the garbage problem on a national scale, but "if it is implemented at the same pace as now, Russia will definitely be inundated with garbage in about 25-30 years."

This quote is no longer from the materials of the JV RF, but from comments to them from leading ecologists (starting with Academician Danilov-Danilyan). The project involves the creation of a high-tech infrastructure for waste processing and disposal, but without specific terms and volumes of processing.

Although it has already been calculated that for each person in Russia, 450 kg of waste is generated annually (this is the data of 2019). In total, this is 650 million tons, but not only waste, but also quite valuable raw materials, for the processing of which and further sale in the form of metal, wood raw materials, fiberglass, plastic in various types, fuel, capacities are needed. Manufacturing.

It cannot be ruled out that in 2020 the indicator will even decrease simply due to a decrease in the general vital activity of the population due to the coronavirus. But then there will definitely be more. And it is necessary to proceed from the growing numbers when drawing up national projects, when developing reforms. And for recycling, no less than 50% of the waste should be planned.

Landfill to landfill


Landfills and even closed landfills, which are very numerous, continue to harm nature, poisoning the air, water and soil. So far, neither the measures taken in many regions to stimulate waste sorting, nor the attempt to shift garbage problems onto the shoulders of other regions by evacuating there thousands of tons of "their" garbage, have not yielded real results.

The same thing, to recall the Soviet experience of collecting scrap metal, glass containers and waste paper, is still out of the question. So far, the reform is reduced, in fact, to "additional taxation of the population with garbage collection, as well as a showy demonstration of cleanliness in Moscow, regional capitals and places of traditional significant gatherings of the public." Simply put, for show.


The auditors of the Accounting Chamber did not accuse the executors of inappropriate and even ineffective use of the funds allocated for the reform. They paid special attention to the fact that the project, which seemed to be so necessary for the country, stalled at the start.

But oddly enough, the employees of the control department did not limit themselves to stating this, believing that it was necessary to revise the key parameters of the project. And to start by providing some kind of preventive measures that will help prevent and reduce waste generation.

Rosprirodnadzor calculated that when the implementation of the national project "Ecology" began, 8323 legal landfills were registered in the regions, of which 916 were located in urban districts. How many illegal discharge points, large and not very, were then across the country, hardly anyone could count. But the fact that there have been many more of them since then is for sure.

But the official dumps and landfills seem to have become much smaller. Now in Russia there are 2832 landfills, of which less than half are included in the register. Decreased by almost three times. For reporting to officials - an indicator anywhere, but has it really become cleaner in Russia? There are very big doubts.

Only now specialists from the same Rosprirodnadzor have managed to count more than 27 thousand unauthorized dumps in Russia. At the same time, the Accounts Chamber reported that in 19 regions municipal waste collection operators threaten to stop working due to low collection of payments from the population.

If people understood why they want to take money from them, they would give it back. With the fees for overhaul, at the very least, we managed to fix something, and even now quite a lot is actually being repaired.

It should be noted in this regard that the current system of direct taxes from the population, by definition, cannot stimulate anyone or anything. But how, then, in the near future, can we do without encouraging citizens not only to use reusable goods, containers and packaging, but also to actively participate in measures for the separate collection of waste?

The relevant department, the Ministry of Natural Resources of the Russian Federation, has already rushed to respond to the criticism of auditors. And there, almost the first thing they emphasized was that some regional operators are in a difficult position due to the coronavirus pandemic. At the same time, the ministry said that the situation with the processing of solid municipal solid waste (or solid waste, whoever likes it more) is under their constant control.

That is, officials keep their finger on the pulse, although the amount of waste, which we still cannot handle at the federal or regional level, continues to grow. As you can see, the Russian reformers are again not thankful.

Polygons of life


How justified is the approach to removing landfills from cities is not for us to judge. In any case, under the Clean Country project, the task was set to liquidate and reclaim only 191 landfills. This is out of almost three thousand in the country. But it is hardly realistic to eliminate all landfills within the boundaries of cities, even with the full success of both the national project and the big waste reform.

Most of all garbage is generated, of course, by the capital. But she at least has the means to either "evacuate" the garbage, although not everyone is ready to accept it, or burn it, or even recycle it. But what about those poor regions in which there is already a critical situation with places for garbage disposal?

And this is the Magadan Region and Buryatia, the Trans-Baikal Territory, Sakhalin and the Jewish Autonomous Region. According to the JV RF, “the residual capacity of landfills in these constituent entities of the Federation was exhausted at the beginning of 2019”.

The auditors' report also says that “the situation with the official landfills is also close to critical. At the current rate of growth in the volume of solid municipal waste (1–2% per year) in 32 regions, their capacity will be exhausted by 2024, and in 17 of them - by 2022. At the same time, most regions simply do not have the opportunity to create new landfills. "

The Ministry of Natural Resources managed to allocate more than 8 billion rubles for the work of regional operators for handling MSW through direct agreements with 65 regions of Russia. But in order to cope with 650 million tons of waste, completely different amounts are needed.

A more or less acceptable “approach to waste” assumes that the average cost of bringing garbage to a state where the harm from it is reduced to a reasonable minimum is now 500-600 rubles per ton. Hence the conclusion: at least 300 billion rubles are needed right now for the garbage reform. And this is without taking into account the construction of new processing facilities and the reclamation of closed landfills.

The official does not sleep


Meanwhile, the Ministry of Natural Resources is busy with business: for example, finding out the needs of the regions in containers for separate collection of waste. The ministry recalled that the government has determined the rules for granting subsidies for the purchase of containers. For this purpose, funds have been reserved for environmental fees for 2020 in the amount of 1 billion rubles.


The federal scheme for MSW management should determine the existing and planned capacities of disposal facilities, agreed with all constituent entities of the Russian Federation. In total, within the framework of the federal scheme, it is planned to build 585 objects by 2024 with a total capacity of about 65 thousand tons, the ministry noted. This is with our 650 million tons of garbage every year!

Few people today need to prove that the pension reform has turned into zilch, but there is at least some progress for the better: you can add something to your seniority, and next year someone will be able to retire a year or even two earlier ...

It would be better, of course, with reference to the pandemic and again growing unemployment, to cancel everything altogether, but this certainly does not work in modern Russia. The authorities almost never admit their miscalculations. By all accounts, the situation with the garbage reform is even worse than with the pension reform. Money from citizens arrives regularly, but garbage from this does not decrease.

But on this reform there are already proposals to take and cancel not from anyone, but from the legislators themselves. Although not from the ruling United Russia party. However, Fair Russia, whose leader, Sergei Mironov, is convinced that it would be better to start the struggle for a pure Russia from scratch, is not easy to call real opposition. Nevertheless, the signal is important.

“The main thing is that we need federal funds, where it will be possible with the involvement of private investors to create powerful complexes for waste processing in the next two years,” Mironov believes.

Initially, there will be one or two such complexes per subject of the Federation, but this will already be a step towards creating a modern infrastructure for MSW management.

According to the parliamentarian, the population should be

generally exempted from garbage collection fees. Recycling is a highly profitable business that must ultimately finance itself.

And the environmental department continues to broadcast to us that the ministry "constantly interacts with the regions to promptly resolve emerging issues, provides support in terms of waste management, including taking emergency measures." Only the time would not come when no emergency measures will help!
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  1. Ragnar Lodbrok
    Ragnar Lodbrok 1 October 2020 15: 08
    25
    the population should be generally exempted from garbage collection fees.
    Recycling is a highly profitable business that must ultimately finance itself.

    I completely and completely agree. But it is unlikely that the officials will go to this - they will not want to lose our money. It's easier to take the last rubles from us, it's easy and simple, than to deal with garbage processing - this will have to work, and not skim the cream without putting any effort into it.
    1. Svarog
      Svarog 1 October 2020 16: 00
      14
      Quote: Ragnar Lothbrok
      But the officials are unlikely to do this - they will not want to lose our money

      Definitely will not go .. people are the second oil.
      1. Aag
        Aag 2 October 2020 12: 30
        +1
        Quote: Svarog
        Quote: Ragnar Lothbrok
        But the officials are unlikely to do this - they will not want to lose our money

        Definitely will not go .. people are the second oil.

        It may soon be the first and the only one ...
    2. Turist1996
      Turist1996 1 October 2020 16: 35
      13
      And the "regional operators for the handling of solid waste" will stand on their hind legs !!! Now they are lafa - everyone who is prescribed for them must pay at the rate, including children under 3 years old. And then - to take out garbage for free ?! Or - oh uzhos - to buy solid waste from the population as a raw material ?! Yes, no way !!!
      1. Turist1996
        Turist1996 1 October 2020 17: 08
        +6
        Oh, that the minusers have tightened! I only wonder why they didn't like it ?! - the truth of life, or what?
        1. depressant
          depressant 1 October 2020 17: 36
          10
          After careful consideration of the table, what and how can be disposed of, the question arose, what to do with items that are not allowed to fall into the trash can? It's easy for me: I don't have those. I keep old burned-out lamps at home in a package of new ones. What if people use batteries? Or a gas canister leaking? Here's what to do about it?
          Earlier it was said: take burned-out lamps to the store. I tried it. They looked like she was insane. Again, there was a reception of secondary metal in the village, but no longer exists for a long time. And the tires? Some of them dug around the gardens near all the houses of the village, made swans, and the rest of their number, which is multiplying, what to do with people?

          Power should work like this: made a decision, create a way to implement it. For example, once a month a truck comes to the village and receives hazardous waste. And so that everyone knows what date. Or even travels around the village on request. Do not drag the tire to him, because if he becomes in the center, then for many it is far away. And what will be done later with batteries and tires at the collection points is a problem for business and government. After all, this recyclable material can be recycled somehow profitably.
          1. Stirbjorn
            Stirbjorn 2 October 2020 09: 01
            +2
            Quote: depressant
            What if people use batteries?

            in cities for a long time, there are corresponding containers in all hypermarkets and shopping malls. There are just no questions. I collect batteries and then throw them away
            1. depressant
              depressant 2 October 2020 09: 15
              +3
              In our "Pyaterochka" there is no such container! Moreover, even the storage cells were removed. And the carts are locked, paid, 10 rubles. A small province lives in a different world)))
      2. for
        for 2 October 2020 12: 16
        +2
        Quote: Turist1996
        everyone prescribed by him must pay at the rate

        Well, in Samara, it's funnier to pay per square meter. meters.
  2. prior
    prior 1 October 2020 15: 09
    +9
    The waste clearly shows what the officials in charge of the country are good for.
    1. Aleksandre
      Aleksandre 1 October 2020 15: 34
      -11 qualifying.
      Quote: prior
      The waste clearly shows what the officials in charge of the country are good for.

      Well, it’s only officials who generate that garbage, and hamsters who pull out a bag of garbage every day from all sorts of boxes, jars, bundles of little-edible crap have nothing to do with this. In addition, every second person considers it his duty to buy food with a large supply, otherwise suddenly a sudden famine will overtake, and in general - "What am I, a beggar or what?" And so yes, in any way officials.
      1. prior
        prior 1 October 2020 15: 59
        +5
        Everything that a person produces is tomorrow's garbage.
        Organizing its processing is not our business with you, consumers, but officials, leaders of industries and the country.
        They can't, so they go to the dump.
        1. Svarog
          Svarog 1 October 2020 16: 22
          +8
          Quote: prior
          Organizing its processing is not our business with you, consumers, but officials, leaders of industries and the country.

          They think differently .. that a person is now free, and the state is free of a person, a person must do everything himself, buy an apartment on a mortgage, pay tax for it, pay for housing and utilities and, of course, for garbage .. And an official must cut taxes from this person .. while not forgetting to make money on everything, wherever possible, and of course on garbage ..
          1. prior
            prior 1 October 2020 16: 36
            +3
            "If they can't, then go to the dump"- I'm not talking about waste, I'm talking about officials.
            1. Vladimir Vladimirovich S
              Vladimir Vladimirovich S 1 October 2020 17: 07
              -1
              A paradox arises: who will "process" them, are you officials, or hard workers? ...
          2. Aleksandre
            Aleksandre 1 October 2020 16: 41
            +6
            Quote: Svarog
            They think differently .. that a person is now free, and the state is free of a person, a person must do everything himself, buy an apartment on a mortgage, pay tax for it, pay for housing and utilities and, of course, for garbage .. And an official must cut taxes from this person .. while not forgetting to make money on everything, wherever possible, and of course on garbage ..

            And why should they not think so, if these people with reinforced concrete persistence continue to vote for "stability" and these very officials? Since the sheep is not twitching yet, then it is possible to shear further.
            1. Svarog
              Svarog 1 October 2020 16: 51
              12
              Quote: Aleksandre
              And why should they not think so, if these people with reinforced concrete persistence continue to vote for "stability" and these very officials? Since the sheep is not twitching yet, then it is possible to shear further.

              It is logical. But I don’t believe that they are really voted for .. How much I don’t communicate with people, I ask everyone .. Take the presidential elections .. out of more than a hundred I interviewed two people were for Putin .. the overwhelming majority for Grudinin and several people for Zhirik ... and according to the Constitution, voting ... out of all my friends and acquaintances, they did not go to vote at all ... but the turnout was 79,68% wassat This is absurd .. or the situation with covid .. in Tatarstan every day 25 cases are detected and the number does not change .. exactly 25, not 15, not 30 .. but 25 ..
              In general, I don't believe that people vote for them ... they just think what they need ...
              1. Aleksandre
                Aleksandre 1 October 2020 17: 07
                +5
                Quote: Svarog
                It is logical. But I don’t believe that they are really voted for .. How much I don’t communicate with people, I ask everyone .. Take the presidential elections .. out of more than a hundred I interviewed two people were for Putin .. the overwhelming majority for Grudinin and several people for Zhirik ...

                You know, the biggest mistake an interviewer can make is to interview his acquaintances to create some kind of canvas of statistics) Firstly: your acquaintances, for the most part, will have the same views, relate to the same social stratum, intellectual development, etc. Secondly : a stranger, whom you will never see again, can be told the truth, and a friend, knowing his attitude to the issue, can lie.

                Well, and according to the statistics of covidly, the stump is clear that Russian organisms do not have any innate immunity to a new infection, and the number of cases per thousand souls cannot be several times lower than in neighboring countries.
                1. Svarog
                  Svarog 1 October 2020 17: 15
                  +7
                  Quote: Aleksandre
                  You know, the biggest mistake an interviewer can make is to interview his acquaintances to create some kind of canvas of statistics) Firstly: your acquaintances for the most part will have the same views, relate to the same social stratum, intellectual development, etc.

                  By virtue of my profession, I have to communicate with different segments of the population and with different social status, among my friends there are doctors, teachers, businessmen, firefighters, factory workers, a loader, policemen and even a judge .. Everyone has different incomes .. I consider mine the statistics are real, at least much more real than the official ones .. I just traveled in public transport when the presidential elections were held .. so there you can hear enough of this that you understand what 76,6% wassat
                  Well, according to the statistics of covidly, the stump is clear that Russian organisms do not have some kind of innate immunity to a new infection,

                  And then the immunity .. I say, every day, 25 cases are detected .. Not 30, not 15 ... but exactly 25 for a month already ..
                  1. Aleksandre
                    Aleksandre 1 October 2020 17: 31
                    +1
                    Quote: Svarog
                    By virtue of my profession, I have to communicate with different segments of the population and with different social status, among my friends there are doctors, teachers, businessmen, firefighters, factory workers, a loader, policemen and even a judge .. Everyone has different incomes .. I consider mine the statistics are real, at least much more real than the official ones .. I just traveled in public transport when the presidential elections were held .. so there you can hear enough of this that you understand what 76,6% wassat

                    Wealth can be different, but the views, hobbies, tastes are the same. Because people agree on some common point of contact, and all your friends have it. You will not discuss elections with a person with whom you are not pleased to talk, or for whom you do not feel the slightest sympathy?
                    And then the immunity .. I say, every day, 25 cases are detected .. Not 30, not 15 ... but exactly 25 for a month already ..

                    What I'm talking about - all the statistics on the disease are sucked from one place. Doctors, like servicemen, are servants, you know ...
                    1. Svarog
                      Svarog 1 October 2020 18: 08
                      +7
                      Is it not pleasant for you to talk, or to whom you do not feel the slightest sympathy?

                      There are many such characters, but I'm kind of talking with them. I have no dislike for people who have different views and political preferences. I just have a misunderstanding (when someone stands up for today's managers) .. and I like to clarify and listen to their point of view and tell about my own))
                      What I'm talking about - all the statistics on the disease are sucked from one place. Doctors, like servicemen, are servants, you know ...

                      I agree, but with the elections the same way .. that's what I'm trying to convince you.
                    2. g1washntwn
                      g1washntwn 2 October 2020 07: 56
                      +1
                      If you look at the curve according to the statistics of the identified covid, then the moment when "the plateau began" is clearly highlighted in the regions, and if you look at other acute respiratory viral infections and the same pneumonia, growth began in the same place. They handed out unspoken CU - here's a sharp "recovery of Moscow", the restrictions were lifted - all these ARV infections, pneumonia and asymptomatic, happily ran to spread the infection. Now again, growth, tales about the fact that we are going through a pandemic easier than others and attempts to heed conscience by persuasion.
                      Yes, tree winders, instead of stupid shows on Channel One, show live reports about people lying on ventilators, about families who have lost their loved ones from disregard of anti-pandemic rules with REAL statistics instead of eyewash. Launched into the store without a mask - close the store - chew your soles, sit without work and walk in rags once you don't give a damn about the rest. In Asia, draconian measures and high responsibility of the population, and nothing, nobody is accused of totalitarianism and no protests come out. And with us, as usual - complete slackness.
              2. Tochilka
                Tochilka 3 October 2020 02: 50
                +2
                A bit of math. 100 out of 10 voters came to vote, the remaining 90 remained at home "and they will decide everything without us." Of the 10 who attended, 7 voted For You Know Who. Oops! 70% !! And it all fits together. Neither that, nor this, nor that FORE was. So they all did not go. Everything is very simple.
                1. for
                  for 4 October 2020 12: 00
                  0
                  Quote: Tochilka
                  Of 100 voters came to vote 10 man, the rest 90 stayed at home "and without us they will decide everything"

                  As a result, 80% turnout.
                  Here is such Entertaining mathematics.
        2. Aleksandre
          Aleksandre 1 October 2020 16: 39
          +2
          Quote: prior
          Organizing its processing is not our business with you, consumers, but officials, leaders of industries and the country.

          To organize processing - no, not our philistine business.
          It is quite possible to reduce the generation of garbage. But only this should be done, somehow limit yourself, which is lazy and reluctant, yeah.
          1. prior
            prior 1 October 2020 16: 56
            +4
            You may not believe it, but I am such an old "fly agaric", I still remember that in Soviet villages and settlements there was not a single dump, not a single waste bin.
            Once a month, a junk carriage drove by, collected rags, scrap metal and exchanged it for children's whistles and other necessary trifles.
            1. Aleksandre
              Aleksandre 1 October 2020 17: 12
              +2
              Quote: prior
              You may not believe it, but I am such an old "fly agaric", I still remember that in Soviet villages and settlements there was not a single dump, not a single waste bin.
              Once a month, a junk carriage drove by, collected rags, scrap metal and exchanged it for children's whistles and other necessary trifles.

              Then maybe you remember how much garbage and how often you had to take it out to the trash heap? And compare that with the current amount. However, it should be noted that manufacturers also contribute a lot to this: despite the fact that I always eat about the same (it’s more convenient to count it, and I’m a lazy cat), the amount of garbage from various packaging has increased over the past 5 years. Not at times, but noticeably. That is, the weight and volume of packaging for the same amount of a useful product is growing.
              1. prior
                prior 1 October 2020 17: 27
                +3
                Fully agree with you.
                In a bright package, it is easier to sniff out frank "guaido".
                1. Aleksandre
                  Aleksandre 1 October 2020 17: 38
                  +1
                  Quote: prior
                  Fully agree with you.
                  In a bright package, it is easier to sniff out frank "guaido".

                  And, believe me, if a sufficient number of buyers will take, for example, cottage cheese just wrapped in wax, and will not buy at all in a beautiful jar, which is larger in volume than the cottage cheese that is in it, then feedback from the manufacturer will follow immediately, lightning fast. I would say. Is it difficult for the buyer? You can even eat exactly the same amount as before.
            2. Tochilka
              Tochilka 3 October 2020 02: 53
              +1
              My father, born in 1953, told me about this. He remembered all his pistols with caps, which he got in this way.
            3. Sergey_K
              Sergey_K 6 October 2020 03: 49
              0
              it is necessary to ban plastic packaging for a long time! probably for the first time I personally support bans. but here this is the only right decision - a ban on plastic containers + subsidies to manufacturers of recycled containers.
          2. g1washntwn
            g1washntwn 2 October 2020 08: 05
            +2
            Quote: Aleksandre
            It is quite possible to reduce the generation of garbage.

            Slightly. Packaging is not made by the public. What is being imposed on us, what is more convenient for the manufacturer of the goods - that will be. Returning to the delivery of milk glass containers is nonsense. Eco-friendly decaying packaging is many times more expensive, the cost of the goods increases, which is again transferred to the consumer's pocket. The manufacturer today is NOT INTERESTED in processing, it is easier to include in the cost the environmental fee and give it to the State, this is again from our pockets.
            Garbage reform was originally a mega-scam. From our pocket they began to drag many times more, despite the fact that these fees were already withdrawn from us. And those who got attached to this super-deception of the population simply warmed their hands, the funds collected were used to arrange trash bins, containers, new garbage trucks ...
            Quote: search for companies in Russia
            Waste processing plants found 13 companies

            Comments are superfluous.
  3. Virus-free crown
    Virus-free crown 1 October 2020 15: 09
    10
    Eh ... would restore at least the minimum level of waste collection as it was in the USSR:
    - collection points for glass containers
    - collection points for scrap metal
    - paper collection points
    and I think so, there would be less garbage in the country by a third ... hi
    1. Maksim_ms
      Maksim_ms 1 October 2020 15: 38
      +6
      Yes, and trash bins for separate collection are not everywhere.
      And where there are people to throw away everything. Sometimes one car arrives and unloads all the garbage into one container.
      1. Virus-free crown
        Virus-free crown 1 October 2020 15: 46
        +3
        Quote: Maksim_ms
        Yes, and trash bins for separate collection are not everywhere.
        And where there are people to throw away everything. Sometimes one car arrives and unloads all the garbage into one container.

        And let's analyze the situation about SEPARATE garbage collection laughing
        Wait at the dacha, I will name the numbers from memory, if I am a little mistaken - call me !!! drinks

        My family pays OFFICIALLY every month !!! rubles 300 for collection and disposal of garbage ... But !!! in practice - add another 150 rubles. = 30 days, 5 rubles for a package from "Pyaterochka", in which I take out the trash ... I take out the trash every day and "my heart will bleed" when, having reached the garbage containers (500 meters from the house), what I just don't see there ... crying Yes, there are, in addition to 5 large garbage containers, 3 more "trash baskets" for separate garbage ... only now ... if I separated the garbage, it would have been 3 to 5 rubles for 30 days = 450 rubles per month only spend on garbage bags !!! + 300 rubles for the disposal of my "garbage" !!! I need it ?! recourse
        1. Maksim_ms
          Maksim_ms 1 October 2020 15: 55
          +3
          I collect plastic and cardboard in separate bags from under ikea, throw it away, leave pacts.
          You can start separate containers, such garbage does not stain much.
          So we just don't have a culture of separate waste collection yet, or no longer.
    2. Dym71
      Dym71 1 October 2020 15: 52
      +7
      Quote: Corona without virus
      - collection points for scrap metal

      Does scrap metal still exist in your region? belay
      1. Virus-free crown
        Virus-free crown 1 October 2020 16: 25
        -1
        Quote: Dym71
        Quote: Corona without virus
        - collection points for scrap metal

        Does scrap metal still exist in your region? belay

        Think about it - yes! (pronounced with a unique Odessa accent tongue )
        every day to our dump ... uh ... trash can ... people bring a runoff of COLORED mctallolom, that the local "elite" lives there all the time, every 3 days on foot on a cart they take it to the reception of non-ferrous metals (if I'm not mistaken - 25 km from my village) - and "fermented" around the clock wink
        1. Dym71
          Dym71 1 October 2020 17: 11
          +1
          Quote: Corona without virus
          Think about it - yes! (pronounced with a unique Odessa accent tongue)

          Schaub painted me!
          Quote: Corona without virus
          once every 3 days on foot on a cart they take him to the reception of non-ferrous metals (if I'm not mistaken - 25 km from my village) - and "ferment" around the clock

          So throw a lighthouse to the people, where in our difficult time any visiting helmet will be able to have a trench to make his gesheft while the natives are catching woof.
          1. Virus-free crown
            Virus-free crown 1 October 2020 17: 14
            -1
            Quote: Dym71
            Quote: Corona without virus
            Think about it - yes! (pronounced with a unique Odessa accent tongue)

            Schaub painted me!
            Quote: Corona without virus
            once every 3 days on foot on a cart they take him to the reception of non-ferrous metals (if I'm not mistaken - 25 km from my village) - and "ferment" around the clock

            So throw a lighthouse to the people, where in our difficult time any helmet can have a trench to make his own gesheft while local businessmen are catching woof.

            Russia, Moscow region, Solnechnogorsk hi
            This is the ONLY non-ferrous metal collection point that I know in the Moscow region bully
      2. depressant
        depressant 1 October 2020 18: 02
        +2
        Here you men are strange)))
        You need to do this. If you throw out the trash every day, then you will not have a full bucket (I hope, covered from the inside with a bag). So, on top of the leftovers, put cardboard, glass containers, plastic bottles, and then on the trash can lower in the reverse order what is placed on top into the profile containers, and throw the food remains into a common large one.
        If there are too many cardboard and different bottles, take a duty bag and put them in it. On the trash can, the vacated duty package is tightly and neatly folded into a ball (it is tolerably clean), put in your pocket and go home with it, or to work - it does not take up much space!

        During the crisis of 2008, I used three bags for a year: I threw out the garbage in the evening, brought the bag home, washed it and weighed it to dry. Many have done this. Now the tanks are standing around ten-story buildings, where local "elites" live. They do not save packages. All trash is wrapped up. But everyone deliberately throws plastic into a profile container. Such conscientiousness would have shown power. In the United States, garbage plants provide electricity, among other things. And in our country, any problem due to corruption is turned into an impossible one.
    3. aglet
      aglet 1 October 2020 17: 44
      -1
      "- collection points for scrap metal"
      all the manholes went there. now only concrete, or plastic. and then, if tomorrow the price of plastic rises, and it goes there too. the state is fucked.
      lutin, on the aurus, will not fly into this hole. and you, easily
      1. Vadim237
        Vadim237 1 October 2020 19: 00
        +1
        Scrap metal workers do not accept sewer hatches.
    4. ycuce234-san
      ycuce234-san 2 October 2020 17: 52
      -1
      It makes no sense to restore the old system exactly, since life has changed and accelerated and no one will waste their scarce time on a trip to the glass container point - the container system was not in vain invented in Western countries that are scarce for personal time.
      Paper is now packaging, printing products are in little demand and are present in our lives thanks to advertising booklets.
      It is better to organize the collection of electronics, for the sake of leaching rare earth elements from it; batteries and rechargeable batteries, lamps. Glass is low-hazard, so for the time being it can be collected and sent to dumps specialized only for glass at landfills, and they can be recycled in more prosperous times - glass has no expiration date and it, collected, can be recycled decades later. Of the problematic ones, only plastics and a little paper remain - they cannot be accumulated, since they burn in landfills and warehouses in case of accidental fires and they, somehow, collected, must be recycled without delay.
  4. Pessimist22
    Pessimist22 1 October 2020 15: 15
    12
    The problem is serious, but you have to start with yourself, at least not to litter where you don't need to, otherwise, when you come for a fishing trip or vacation, there are bottles, cans and other rubbish everywhere.
  5. Woodman
    Woodman 1 October 2020 15: 31
    +6
    The same thing, to recall the Soviet experience of collecting scrap metal, glass containers and waste paper, is still out of the question.
    About scrap metal, you are in vain. To paraphrase - "the authors are terribly far from the people" in the matter of scrap metal. You will not find an ownerless piece of iron with fire near residential areas, not to mention non-ferrous metal.
    Well, glass and waste paper is probably just not profitable for private traders. I remember there were reception points in every microdistrict. they were homeless-looking individuals. Now there are only "metalheads" left.
    And what I noticed - where there are bins with separate waste collection - cardboard, glass, plastic - they are constantly filled. That is, the people in the majority support this method. It's up to processing and regoperators.
  6. Virus-free crown
    Virus-free crown 1 October 2020 15: 39
    +6
    earlier in the USSR it was ... wassat
    - "alcoholic and parasite" in the morning (after yesterday's seichen), having handed over the container in the literally nearest gateway, he immediately received an amount for a drink ... good
    - the student dragged a filing of "Pravda" into the waste paper - and he received in addition to money and a coupon for which thread a scarce book
    - having rummaged around the neighborhood and handed over scrap metal, we, I remember, "karasha" walked there in childhood !!! drinks candy, cake, ice cream ... fellow

    and now?! am
    I live in the nearest suburbs ... and so:
    - points of reception of waste paper and glass containers - I have not even heard of them !!!
    - in 25 km there is the nearest metal collection point - but !!! only non-ferrous metals!

    As a result ... you walk around the city ... there are bottles everywhere, and a pile of paper, and all kinds of metal garbage ... am

    And then everything is necessary !!! Organize reception points !!! this at times !!! cheaper than sorting garbage later !!!
    1. Van 16
      Van 16 1 October 2020 15: 51
      +3
      As I remember now, you run into the kitchen, put all the bottles in a string bag, and right there in the courtyard there is a reception point, you hand it over and voila! And for a ticket to the cinema, and for ice cream money in your pocket))
      1. Virus-free crown
        Virus-free crown 1 October 2020 16: 09
        +1
        Quote: Van 16
        As I remember now, you run into the kitchen, put all the bottles in a string bag, and right there in the courtyard there is a reception point, you hand it over and voila! And for a ticket to the cinema, and for ice cream money in your pocket))

        The limitation period of 25 years has long passed ... therefore, to be honest, as a child in the village with my grandparents, I had a profit over the summer of 150-200 rubles. laughing as they say, "sleight of hand and no fraud" hi bully

        The village had its own "watering gang" of the most "thugs" 10-15 years old))) I convinced their leader to put on a school uniform (and dress everyone from the "gang"), tie pioneer ties and make a "raid" huts in the village ... there were about 1000 houses at that time ... I started the conversation ... I introduced myself as a "Timurovite" ... that we collect waste paper, metal, paper and various waste - "to help old men and women" ... so that they themselves do not drag waste to the trash can ... repeat

        For the first outing (we walked through more than half of the houses and collected the "waste" and then handed it over) we received a "red-haired brazen face" (I counted and distributed - as I remember - 35 rubles 76 kopecks each) laughing by purchasing power - this is considered at 35760 rubles. for today for 3 !!! day of work !!!

        Then every summer we walked around the houses 2-3 times during the summer in Pionre's ties and took out their own garbage !!! good Deng was - by the then standards for boys - "the chickens did not peck" bully we were "tough guys" !!! wassat

        Py. Sy. True, after 3 years the lafa ended ... recourse crying Older guys "cut the chip" and pushed us away from the "trough" laughing
    2. parusnik
      parusnik 1 October 2020 16: 11
      +1
      The same money must be paid to the receiver once, the land must be allocated two (and it has already been divided), the money must be allocated three, for premises, warehouses, transport-4 ... But the municipalities have no money ... Taxes ... gee ... not everyone pays them, because there is a "roof" .. and many interesting ways not to pay them ..
      1. Virus-free crown
        Virus-free crown 1 October 2020 16: 29
        -1
        Quote: parusnik
        The same money must be paid to the receiver once, the land must be allocated two (and it has already been divided), the money must be allocated three, for premises, warehouses, transport-4 ... But the municipalities have no money ... Taxes ... gee ... not everyone pays them, because there is a "roof" .. and many interesting ways not to pay them ..

        so we are here gutarim about the STATE !!! garbage disposal program? repeat
        So, within the framework of the state - the state is many times cheaper !!! "organize turnkey" collection of useful waste from the population ... than then deal with waste! good
        1. parusnik
          parusnik 1 October 2020 16: 43
          +2
          The state throws off such questions to local self-government ... There was an attempt, the year before last, within the framework of some targeted program, to try to solve this problem. It ended up in the fact that just in the county town on the central street, they placed not large containers , for glass, paper and something else .. that's all .. and so fussing, deciding .. it turned out there was no money, but what would be necessary to raise the prices for garbage collection at times, the village municipalities did not agree and ended up with what I wrote above...
          1. Virus-free crown
            Virus-free crown 1 October 2020 16: 49
            +1
            Quote: parusnik
            The state throws off such questions to local self-government ... There was an attempt, the year before last, within the framework of some targeted program, to try to solve this problem. It ended up in the fact that just in the county town on the central street, they placed not large containers , for glass, paper and something else .. that's all .. and so fussing, deciding .. it turned out there was no money, but what would be necessary to raise the prices for garbage collection at times, the village municipalities did not agree and ended up with what I wrote above...

            I speak in plain text! good
            I've been looking for a job for 4 months now (after our company with 15 years of experience went bankrupt because of the crown) ... repeat give me a loan of 10.000 million rubles. for 3 years without interest - in just a year I organize "exemplary collection and disposal of waste" in our village good In the second year - in our area ... By the end of the third year - I will be the "garbage king" of the cities closest to me ... and then ... in 5 years ... okay, in 10 ... I will be included in the top100 list Forbes of Russian billionaires good drinks The main thing is not to disturb me !!! good
            1. parusnik
              parusnik 1 October 2020 17: 18
              +3
              The main thing is not to disturb me!
              give me a loan of 10.000 million rubles. for 3 years without interest
              ..... laughing .. They made fun of ... this is how the state usually issues a thread with a needle and a button ...
              1. Virus-free crown
                Virus-free crown 1 October 2020 17: 27
                0
                Quote: parusnik
                The main thing is not to disturb me!
                give me a loan of 10.000 million rubles. for 3 years without interest
                ..... laughing .. They made fun of ... this is how the state usually issues a thread with a needle and a button ...

                And the fact that I have paid 15+ rubles a month of income tax only for the last 13.000 years doesn't count ?! recourse laughing

                As for me - people like me, the state should carry in its arms and blow off the dust from them - if, of course, the state wants to be "its strong people" good
            2. Aag
              Aag 2 October 2020 12: 45
              0
              Quote: Crown without virus
              Quote: parusnik
              The state throws off such questions to local self-government ... There was an attempt, the year before last, within the framework of some targeted program, to try to solve this problem. It ended up in the fact that just in the county town on the central street, they placed not large containers , for glass, paper and something else .. that's all .. and so fussing, deciding .. it turned out there was no money, but what would be necessary to raise the prices for garbage collection at times, the village municipalities did not agree and ended up with what I wrote above...

              I speak in plain text! good
              I've been looking for a job for 4 months now (after our company with 15 years of experience went bankrupt because of the crown) ... repeat give me a loan of 10.000 million rubles. for 3 years without interest - in just a year I organize "exemplary collection and disposal of waste" in our village good In the second year - in our area ... By the end of the third year - I will be the "garbage king" of the cities closest to me ... and then ... in 5 years ... okay, in 10 ... I will be included in the top100 list Forbes of Russian billionaires good drinks The main thing is not to disturb me !!! good

              Did you still keep the red tie?))))
    3. aglet
      aglet 1 October 2020 17: 47
      +3
      and who needs it? it is easier to make a new bottle than to take, wash, disinfect, and use the old one
      1. Virus-free crown
        Virus-free crown 1 October 2020 17: 51
        -1
        Quote: aglet
        and who needs it? it is easier to make a new bottle than to take, wash, disinfect, and use the old one

        EASIER!!! take the old one, wash it, disinfect it, and put it into action !!! good

        but to make a new one ... in short ... an excavator digs sand ... then BELAZ takes it to Kuevo-Kuevo to the factory ... then clean the sand ... melt ... then make glass ... then bottles ... then take the bottles to the factory ... recourse )))

        and take the old one, wash, disinfect, and put it into action - 1 week in total ... and so - at least 3 months ...
        1. aglet
          aglet 1 October 2020 18: 02
          +1
          "and the old one is accepted, washed, disinfected, and put into operation - 1 week in total ... and so - at least 3 months ..."
          well, why don't they do that?
          1. Virus-free crown
            Virus-free crown 1 October 2020 18: 07
            0
            Quote: aglet
            "and the old one is accepted, washed, disinfected, and put into operation - 1 week in total ... and so - at least 3 months ..."
            well, why don't they do that?

            But because Russia is now being robbed ... crying
            For the same waste paper ... very roughly (no need to troll), 100 kg of waste paper = 1 one tree, from which they will make 100 kg paper ... with us it is easier to cut down a hundred hectares of forest in Siberia than to organize the collection of recyclable materials ... we're kind of rich ... am and that we destroy nature - so "after us = at least the grass does not grow" (thinks the state am )

            about the collection of metal vaasche I am silent ...
            1. aglet
              aglet 1 October 2020 18: 17
              +2
              "In our country it is easier to cut down a hundred hectares of forest in Siberia than to organize the collection of recyclable materials ..."
              for 100 hectares of forest in Siberia, you will immediately receive your 30 dollars, and in order to collect and recycle waste paper, you have to invest here. and who will spend "theirs" when it is possible for "ours" (like, forest, our wealth). cash in?
              1. Virus-free crown
                Virus-free crown 1 October 2020 18: 30
                +1
                Quote: aglet
                "In our country it is easier to cut down a hundred hectares of forest in Siberia than to organize the collection of recyclable materials ..."
                for 100 hectares of forest in Siberia, you will immediately receive your 30 dollars, and in order to collect and recycle waste paper, you have to invest here. and who will spend "theirs" when it is possible for "ours" (like, forest, our wealth). cash in?

                And here we need to draw a clear border - who owns Russia's wealth ?! repeat According to the Constitution - to the people of Russia ... but in fact - to everyone except the people of Russia ... crying

                But let's not talk about the patient laughing but ... even within the framework of our controversy - about garbage and its processing - re-read my posts here in this thread! good drinks Everything that I wrote that I was ready to become a "trash king" and enter the top 100 of the Russian Forbes - everything is real ... I don't even need help from the state ... I need it - so that I WON'T HINDER !! ! good what would I 10.000.000 rubles. spent a loan on business, not bribes hi
                1. parusnik
                  parusnik 1 October 2020 20: 52
                  +2
                  what would I 10.000.000 rubles. spent a loan on business, not bribes
                  .... True, sew on a button ... smile Excuse me for being so rude, but where did you see an interest-free loan, and even a multimillion-dollar loan in a capitalist state, which is Russia ... and someone who will give you, and even for enrichment, and even for solving environmental problems and without cutting? .. True, sew on a button ...
                  1. Virus-free crown
                    Virus-free crown 1 October 2020 21: 33
                    +1
                    Quote: parusnik
                    what would I 10.000.000 rubles. spent a loan on business, not bribes
                    .... True, sew on a button ... smile Excuse me for being so rude, but where did you see an interest-free loan, and even a multimillion-dollar loan in a capitalist state, which is Russia ... and someone who will give you, and even for enrichment, and even for solving environmental problems and without cutting? .. True, sew on a button ...

                    laughing but let's dream all the same ... repeat
                  2. depressant
                    depressant 1 October 2020 22: 07
                    +5
                    Moreover, a horde of inspectors, plus the administration of the place where the enterprise will be located, will run up and demand their share. And also the police. And if the enterprise grows, the FSB will appear with an important air, pushing the police away from the trough, and will demand corporatization with the inclusion of their representative in the board of directors ...
                    Until now, in my village, a small brick shop is called Kokunovsky. And how many of these shops were there throughout Russia? Remember the ad for Korkunov sweets? No more Korkunov! The man could not stand the roll, spat and sold his chocolate production, most likely to foreigners. Now in that shop "Red and White". These, apparently, made concessions. I remember that terrible attack on the wine and beer traders by the law enforcement officers. The merchants, you see, agreed. While. But time will pass, and we learn that the company "Red and White" is also sold to foreigners. And we are still wondering why we have any product with a Russian name like "House in the Village", but foreigners produce it from our own raw materials on our territory, and Tajiks work for them. Hundreds of Russian brands have been sold! And large retail chains are all foreign. For the same reason.
                    Colleague Corona without a virus is certainly smart, active, but extremely naive. Corrupt officials are in demand in Russia. Therefore, in order to organize production, one must first of all negotiate with the administration, the police, the sanitary and epidemiological station and with the other fifty bloodsuckers who are sitting on the state budget. How disgusting!
                2. g1washntwn
                  g1washntwn 2 October 2020 08: 21
                  +1
                  Quote: Corona without virus
                  And here we need to draw a clear border - who owns Russia's wealth ?! According to the Constitution - to the people of Russia ... but in fact - to everyone except the people of Russia ...

                  Now I will squeeze out another tear from you:
                  Under the law on private property GARBAGE OWNS YOU, but FOR REFUSAL OF YOUR property YOU MUST still shell out a lot of money today.
                  In principle, if you use the mechanisms of property surrender, there is an option to accumulate your garbage, write to this heap of Property abandonment and dump it under the door of the Municipality.
                  Article 236 of the Civil Code of the Russian Federation
                3. aglet
                  aglet 2 October 2020 09: 05
                  +1
                  "Everything that I wrote that I am ready to become a" trash king "and enter the top 100 of Russian Forbes - everything is real ... I don't even need help from the state ..."
                  and who doesn't? as Kozma Prutkov said - if you want to be happy, be it
                  1. Virus-free crown
                    Virus-free crown 2 October 2020 14: 09
                    -1
                    Quote: aglet
                    "Everything that I wrote that I am ready to become a" trash king "and enter the top 100 of Russian Forbes - everything is real ... I don't even need help from the state ..."
                    and who doesn't? as Kozma Prutkov said - if you want to be happy, be it

                    The following in this post on this topic interferes:

                    https://topwar.ru/175636-prosti-nemytaja-rossija-pri-othody-i-rashody.html#comment-id-10830730

                    hi
      2. ycuce234-san
        ycuce234-san 2 October 2020 17: 18
        0
        it is easier to make a new bottle than to take, wash, disinfect, and use the old one


        No one usually returns glass after processing to the food industry - it is usually processed into technical products, for example, it is added to road asphalt (glasasphalt), made of it a filler for chemical apparatus, processed into technical and construction products - glass pipes, glass wool, fiberglass, fiberglass and fiberglass, different geofabrics, etc. A less simple option for local authorities would be to set aside a site outside the city for the accumulation of glass waste from enterprises and the population and install a crushing and sorting line on this site to produce glass crumb of different fractions. The crumb is produced all year round and is stored in dumps and then consumed at local ABZ and concrete plants during the construction season. All the same, the main permanent construction customers are municipalities, which may require the use of building materials with a certain percentage of secondary resources for their municipal facilities - and the larger it is, the higher the chances of winning construction work tenders. Likewise, many polymer waste (tires, shoes, any plastic) is also processed into granules for asphalt and concrete consumed by municipalities, into geofabrics and technical polymer fibers, bulk drainage fillers, etc. Builders should be required to use materials from local secondary resources.
  7. From Tomsk
    From Tomsk 1 October 2020 15: 42
    +8
    The author, as usual, went over the top. It is not so difficult to stifle the garbage operators operating in the region. They all work at about the same losses due to low tariffs and, at best, receive a "zero" year. Almost 65% of waste regoperators in Siberia showed losses in the first year of the reform on solid municipal waste (MSW) management. But the Novosibirsk regoperator LLC "Ecology-Novosibirsk" reported 26 million rubles in net profit (with revenue of 2,7 billion rubles). At the same time, in 2019, the contractors of the operator announced hundreds of millions of debts for garbage collection. Most of the company belongs to the St. Petersburg group VIS, which also received concession agreements for the construction of a fourth bridge across the Ob and seven clinics in Novosibirsk. VIS belonged to Igor Snegurov and Dmitry Ryabov. The latter works as the general director of JSC "TEK" Mosenergo "" Igor Rotenberg.
    Familiar surname, right? The companies of the group invest in the construction of transport, social and communal infrastructure, implement and manage various types of turnkey concessions. In 2019, VIS signed agreements on public-private partnerships worth over one hundred billion rubles. And the portfolio of already implemented projects of the group exceeds 300 billion, despite the fact that it is now formed 27 years ahead. A profit of 48 million rubles was shown by the Moscow-based LLC Aerocity-2000, which deals with waste in Khakassia. Aerocity 2000 is owned by several Moscow businessmen, including Lada Shefler, the daughter of billionaire Yuri Shefler, who heads the board of directors of the SPI Group, which sells alcohol. Well, something like this.
    1. Ingvar 72
      Ingvar 72 1 October 2020 15: 48
      +4
      Quote: From Tomsk
      They all work at approximately the same losses due to low tariffs and, at best, receive a "zero" year.

      That latna ?! belay We have a golden waste business in Togliatti.
      By the way, since then, when the garbage tax was raised and personalized, garbage collection has become much worse.
  8. Maxim73
    Maxim73 1 October 2020 15: 45
    +5
    And I'll tell you a story about how the damned capitalists ... in the sense ... the German comrades in the construction of socialism, dealt with the sorting of waste. It was a long time ago during the existence of the GDR, in the glorious city of Dresden. What did the Germans do with the trash? Sorted into glass, food waste, paper (fabric). Plastic then was not enough and it was more and more eternal Bakelite or some other indestructible garbage. So, the citizens themselves were engaged in sorting garbage. This sorted garbage was picked up by the scavengers and paid for it. Pfennings turned out, but they were not given to people! In each house there was a senior house who kept this money. Everything was accountable - reports were posted on bulletin boards - how much garbage was handed over, how much money was received, how much money was in the account. The trick was that this money went to the maintenance of the common areas of the house. Replace the light bulb, insert the broken glass, touch up something, grease it. And with the remaining money (they very often remained, because no one really thought to break their own house), parties were organized for children. We were given lemonades and sweets. It was in the late 80s of the XX century. I don’t know what now, but I don’t think they destroyed this working scheme.

    We have the same, initially, a stupid scheme with payment for garbage collection. Garbage costs money, and they take money from garbage producers.
    1. Hagen
      Hagen 1 October 2020 18: 20
      0
      Quote: Maxim73
      Garbage costs money, and they take money from garbage producers.

      This raw material costs money. And in order to turn garbage into raw materials, you need to work on it. In general, Mironov is right. Until a waste recycling plant is built at each settlement or group of settlements for federal money, the problem with waste cannot be solved. What has accumulated in landfills today has accumulated since Soviet times. And then the government had dreams of solving garbage problems, following the example of Switzerland or Sweden. But there was not enough money. The garbage problem is a very serious and large-scale one. We will solve it for twenty years with varying degrees of success. But 330 million cubic meters of garbage will be added annually.
      1. Maxim73
        Maxim73 8 October 2020 18: 13
        0
        Did you read diagonally and backwards, or did you just protest?
        1. Hagen
          Hagen 8 October 2020 19: 30
          -2
          Quote: Maxim73
          Did you read diagonally and backwards, or did you just protest?

          You can be read either this way or that way, you still do not catch up with the most important thing that the Germans had in Dresden at the end of the 80s. They had a production that consumed these different types of waste, which only in this case become raw materials. It still exists today in almost all European countries. Therefore, waste is processed there (i.e. used as a raw material or supplement to fuel) up to 95% of all waste produced. We did not deal with this issue all the time of the Soviet regime, except for the pioneers (waste paper + scrap metal), but they could not cope with the entire shaft. In the early 80s, the USSR tried to intensify the work with waste paper and bought several dozen pressing lines in Europe and something was collected from the population in exchange for coupons for books. But most of the solid waste went to landfills (dumps). And now they have taken up the question of how to turn garbage into raw materials. That's the whole diagonal. But in essence you are right - the garbage producer pays for garbage collection, the raw material consumer pays for the raw materials. The scheme is quite logical, there is nothing stupid. No production, no conversion of waste into raw materials. I don't see any contradictions.
          1. Maxim73
            Maxim73 13 October 2020 13: 50
            0
            Google the topic of recycled rubble and asphalt chips.
            1. Hagen
              Hagen 13 October 2020 16: 19
              0
              Quote: Maxim73
              Google the topic of recycled rubble and asphalt chips.

              And what does secondary rubble have to do with it if we are discussing garbage, i.e. MSW from the population? Have you ever met the experience of the population delivering asphalt crumbs? Me not. And the population can get secondary crushed stone only when the old house, who had it, is destroyed. The gist of my writing is that waste management is a large, cost-intensive, multi-faceted system. It only works if all of its elements are present. You are all about the visible part - garbage, pfenings, older houses ... And their system worked because the cars left with this disassembled garbage, and this garbage / raw material was needed by someone for production. However, I have already spoken about this ...
  9. unaha
    unaha 1 October 2020 16: 01
    +4
    As life shows, the plastic box placed on the trash can be filled regularly. The capacity for batteries put before leaving the house by some enthusiasts too. But where does all this go then?
    Well, in forests / fields, the situation with plastic and aluminum cans is just awful. It looks like the DNA of the population needs to be changed.
  10. parusnik
    parusnik 1 October 2020 16: 05
    +2
    the population should be generally exempted from garbage collection fees. Recycling is a highly profitable business that must ultimately finance itself.
    ..This is true. Let me remind you one more thing. Maybe someone remembers, during the presidency of the LADIES, he awarded one St. Petersburg scientist who invented an incinerator that not only burns garbage, but can also provide electricity at least to the area, in full measure, I remember shook his hand and said that thanks to this invention, Russia will not only get rid of garbage, but will also be able to mount such installations all over the world ... Like a breakthrough, etc. and?
    1. Svarog
      Svarog 1 October 2020 16: 29
      +6
      Quote: parusnik
      It's like a breakout, etc. and?

      I remember this moment and then (by naivety) it really seemed to be a breakthrough .. But when the euphoria passes and you look at the result, you understand that everything we have is sharpened for PR and sawed off .. The people got PR, the official saw it off .. Out in Rusnano money was not invested at all nano and where is the result? Well, at least some ...
      1. parusnik
        parusnik 1 October 2020 16: 46
        +3
        There was not even a cut here, if, let's say, we went along this path, electricity began to fall in price, and the capitalist needs it ...
  11. Esaul
    Esaul 1 October 2020 16: 21
    +6
    And before the population for the delivery of garbage, on the contrary, paid extra. Do not count how much I bought in the 90s for the empty bottles handed over ... And now it is necessary the same way - you sort the garbage for recycling and throw it away separately, and what can be reused (glass bottles, etc.) - you put it in points reception and you get money. And the garbage processors should pay for the garbage collection, because they then have income from it.
    But now, in the era of consumption, no one needs it. There are already tens of thousands of forms of glass bottles, each produces just to sell faster and more expensive, but no one thinks about recycling.
    And things now serve for a year or two and for release. Previously, equipment, clothing, footwear served for decades.
  12. fa2998
    fa2998 1 October 2020 17: 19
    +3
    Well, if the next reform is conceived, then the tariffs will jump again! We, in the city, already have a joke in everyday life - we pay for rubbish - like the governor collects on a Lexus. The last time the tariff was increased by 300%! request hi
    RS A is taken out there, to the dump, and buried
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 1 October 2020 19: 02
      -2
      Our landfill in the Volgograd region was closed - now all the garbage is being taken for processing in the Moscow region, almost all landfills have been closed.
  13. WeAreNumerOne
    WeAreNumerOne 1 October 2020 19: 05
    +4
    But there are a lot of Russians in Monaco. And there are a lot of cars on Russian license plates on the streets. And there are no problems with garbage. I am proud of Russia

    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. WeAreNumerOne
      WeAreNumerOne 1 October 2020 19: 08
      +3
      And in pursuit. It's nice that if you go to a casino in Monaco, you hear Russian Speech
  14. olimpiada15
    olimpiada15 1 October 2020 20: 35
    +1
    In order for civilization to develop, it is necessary to implement the principle of "action taking into account the interests of all interested parties." Life develops and raises new questions, it is necessary to develop schemes of rational actions.
    In today's Russian world of rabid capitalism, this is impossible. Each party involved in the solution of the issue is looking for personal benefit, i.e. always trying to pull the blanket over himself .. The expected result is that the strongest gets all the buns, and the weak are forced to pull a burden that is too heavy for them. The result is predictable: things are still there. Power and near-power structures are always strong, and they are set for that. The people are always weak. Predominantly mucked by everyday problems, the need to make efforts to survive, he does not take part in making decisions. What is waste reform in practice? This is a financial cut of some and the development of successful reports of others. And the solution starts with an understanding: to reduce the amount of waste generated.
    Somehow here on VO they raised the issue of "disposable consumer goods". Metal pipes in the house served for fifty years in normal living conditions. Now the service life of the plumbing is 2 years with repair and for disposal. Computers after a few years cannot be repaired; they require almost complete replacement. This wastes of the 4th hazard class, they pollute the nature. What is the purpose of the replacement? In the manufacturer's profit. I bought a tablet in 2014 and 2019. I would give a lot to re-buy the old one, the new one is not good enough. The 90's washing machine washed better than the one released in 2010. People are forced to waste money. This process is accompanied by environmental pollution. Maybe you need to produce less waste? When it comes to money, conscience is not appropriate, but nature will pay off humanity like a vile parasite. The media cultivate a model of overconsumption, and consumption should be rational and optimal. The model of human behavior and consumption must be optimal. This is all unattainable.
    The garbage reform seems to me like this: officials with some organizations will cut the allocated funds, the Ministry of Natural Resources will write reports with nice numbers, but the problem will remain. There is no one to solve it.







    garbage
  15. north 2
    north 2 1 October 2020 21: 48
    0
    I may not be right, but learning from others should not be ashamed. Others in the local government should teach if this local government fails to learn from others, optional and remotely. But so as not
    to learn in the XNUMXst century with such information communications means to be a layman, lazy, or maybe
    and a deliberate saboteur. Therefore, it was necessary in the management of communal services in the regions
    and regions and republics to invite specialists from Europe leading in this activity. They would teach and make lawns everywhere in cities mow and sort garbage and recycle garbage. And there is nothing to be ashamed of. Then good specialists would grow out of their own to make life easier for people
    and making cities beautiful. This is the same as the Tsars from the beginning invited Rastrelli, Trezzini, Rossi from Europe and then their own Bazhenov, Kazakov, Stasov, Tatlin, Shukhov appeared ...
  16. solzh
    solzh 1 October 2020 22: 03
    0
    Waste management reform

    For more than thirty years, since the time of the marked, we have been reforming and reforming everything, but the situation is getting worse and there are no improvements on the horizon.
  17. nikvic46
    nikvic46 2 October 2020 06: 26
    +1
    Much can be changed, but we are moving along the western path and, above all, introduce glass containers. Glass and paper are easier to recycle and would not solve the problem, but they make it much easier. And the poor people would be given the opportunity to earn money. Every family is connected with batteries and lamps. They can't dispose of themselves, see how it's done in other countries. Previously, batteries were needed only for flashlights, now they are needed everywhere. In some cities there is a separate collection of waste. A car drives up and it all mixes up. Here is the picture: if we ignore the toxic waste.
    1. depressant
      depressant 2 October 2020 07: 37
      0
      Oh, colleague ...
      You say you can't do it yourself, look how it's done in other countries. Who will be watching? Official? His instructions do not say that. So, maybe an entrepreneur? Yes. But the permission for the activity is given by an official, whose instructions do not say that garbage should be collected and processed in the territory under his jurisdiction ...
      This is the very thing that gives rise to corruption - not even the absence of laws, but the absence of customs, rituals, so-called unwritten rules, that is, a way of life that makes an official rush about in anguish, wringing his hands: "Where can I get an entrepreneur, ready not only to collect - such, thank God, is there, but also to recycle garbage? Where? Already allocated land, I am ready to give a subsidy myself and found investors, an advertisement in all newspapers, and he, an entrepreneur, is not there, and the people are angry screams, demands a trash recycler ... "
      The people are shouting angrily, demanding a waste recycling plant. Look, they are corroded, the government thinks. Liberals, the government thinks. Shouted and calm down, thinks the government.
      They shouted. Calmed down. Waste recycling, cleanliness is not common.
      As for the dirt in Europe, there must have been some particularly cruel struggle between the government and the people, which has become a custom. Not a struggle, but purity. Or maybe plague, cholera, Spanish flu fought the people ...
      Something fought, but we did not get it.
  18. Dedok
    Dedok 2 October 2020 07: 50
    0
    Quote: Svarog
    Definitely will not go .. people are the second oil.


    Noooooo, the oil will run out sometime, and the simpletons (that is, we) will feed them for a long time.
  19. Dedok
    Dedok 2 October 2020 07: 59
    -1
    Quote: nikvic46
    Much can be changed, but we are moving along the western path. introduce glass containers. Glass and paper are easier to recycle


    this is how it already happened: remember in the USSR how food was packed

    Garbage problems are everywhere, but for us it is not a problem - for us it is a character trait
    and it is connected with the understanding of "life" by us: why does everyone want a higher education - because it seems to them (or maybe they are right) that there is no need to work with the "tower" - sit and get a salary and clean up !!!! others will follow you ... that is. Someone has to clean up their garbage everywhere, they have a higher education, but then in the image and likeness ...
    why wrote so - for more than 30 years he asked correspondence students a question - why did they come to the university ...
  20. evgen1221
    evgen1221 2 October 2020 10: 28
    0
    As usual in the last 30 years, reforms are done not according to the principle of doing something, but according to the principle of making money on it. The result is obvious. First, they would have introduced the obligation to use paper bags, recycling points plus active PR from each iron. And in parallel with the decrease in the share of plastic in household waste, they would be engaged in recycling and R&D on the topic as a whole - a golden eldorado on the scale of the country for thousands of people, and jobs for zeroing out too.
  21. Mikhail3
    Mikhail3 2 October 2020 10: 31
    0
    In what sense is a failure ?! They collect money, only the smoke goes!
  22. Knell wardenheart
    Knell wardenheart 2 October 2020 11: 04
    0
    In my impression, the reform has stalled. At the household level - there is enough waste that does not represent reclamation value - now they try to pack even the smallest food product into "a hundred clothes", greens are sold in trays, in stores they still distribute "on a ball" bags, glasses, which can be made from thick paper - are still made of plastic and so on.
    Specifically, at my house there are 4 tanks - only one of them is "for recult.waste" and even then it is filled extremely sluggishly, and the fact that when garbage is removed they still knock it in one pile, as if it hints that all this is fiction ..

    What can you really do about it? Spin freaking social videos on the zombie box 24/7, in which they will tell how for very stupid people - what you need to sort garbage, and in great detail - how exactly and what where. Hang up LARGE AND COLORFUL posters near each garbage dump, glue on the bins themselves, on panels near the entrances, in elevators. On the part of the state, there should be a more intelligible line on processing - what and how they are going to process exactly and how - with a minimum of abstractions. I believe that it is necessary to resume such a phenomenon as waste paper collection points again. The issue of disposal of batteries and mercury lamps is not well covered in society. It might be worth investing in research to adequately recycle plastics - for example, to make simple plastics. surfaces and parts of tools and equipment.
    The gravity of this issue is still understated by our "effective managers and economists" - due to their weak competence, desire to save money and deep-rooted habits of formalism.
    1. ycuce234-san
      ycuce234-san 2 October 2020 17: 37
      0
      The issue of disposal of batteries and mercury lamps is not well covered in society.

      Mercury lamps are almost not used in everyday life, and even in industry, LED lighting sources are already being introduced. Probably, the main park of such lamps is in the city street lighting system. But the city itself recycles its lamps. Batteries and accumulators, including those from motorists, must be collected.
      1. Maxim73
        Maxim73 8 October 2020 18: 12
        0
        One lithium finger battery contaminates 1 cubic meter of the earth. The problem is very urgent.
  23. Severok
    Severok 4 October 2020 19: 25
    0
    Garbage is simple, it needs to be sorted and recycled. But the enterprises for PROCESSING, and not for incineration, should be built at the expense of the state. In order for the garbage to be sorted, you need EDUCATION, not educational services, for which all the ministers of education of the Russian Federation want to stroke the back of the shafts and all the way. Garbage recycling is a HIGH-PROFITABLE and high-tech business, a private trader cannot afford it at his own expense, especially in Russia. They will crush the publicans with fees and taxes.
  24. TROG
    TROG 5 October 2020 10: 24
    0
    We have an interesting State. The state demands money from me for its services, although earlier it was free. (for example, any medical certificates, etc.). But the state itself does not want to pay for my services to the state. It turns out they take a tax on garbage from me, and immediately demand that I sort (that is, I provide a service) my garbage for the garbage can. And then some confidant will hand over it all and have money from it. So it turns out that the output of this whole epic, zilch. Both tax and sorting are required of us, but the state itself is not in a hurry to resolve this problem. Duck you abolish the tax and demand that I sort the garbage, fine for this, watch where all the stalls and shops throw garbage. Or take a tax and do it yourself.