Military Review

Supercavitating torpedo "Shkval": effective, but not effective

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The phrase in the headline was spoken to the representatives of the State Scientific and Production Enterprise "Region" by the specialists of the WASS firm ("Whitehead") at one of the naval salons in 1999. The opposite point of view of a fashionable journalist (very poorly versed in the subject), a columnist for The National Interest of Kayla Mizokami:


The Russian supercavitating torpedo Shkval has destroyed the paradigm of submarine warfare. Weaponthat can move six times faster than its predecessors, it is shocking.

How are things really?

History first


The first projects of rocket-propelled torpedoes appeared almost simultaneously with the "classic" torpedoes (here it should be noted that the underwater launch of missiles, at the time of the appearance of the Whitehead self-propelled mine, had already been implemented in 1838 on our submarine by engineer-general KA Schilder).

Supercavitating torpedo "Shkval": effective, but not effective

Serious practical work on rocket-propelled torpedoes began in the mid-30s. (applied to aviation carriers and torpedo boats). In 1941-1951. at NII-400 (the future Central Research Institute "Gidropribor"), an experimental prototype of the RT-45-2 rocket torpedo of 45 cm caliber with I. Isaev's liquid-propellant engine powered by nitric acid-kerosene vapor was developed. A speed of 70-75 knots was assumed for a distance of 1,5-2 km.

Due to the lack of safety of the torpedo and the short range, the work was closed. At the same time, it was she who gave impetus to subsequent work on supercavitation in the USSR, the starting point of which was a memorandum, later one of the key developers on the subject of Uvarov G.V., with an analysis of the complex of problems of RT-45, and the conclusion that their a solution is possible only on the basis of a transition to a supercavitating product.

The first rocket torpedo put into service was the aircraft RAT-2 (chief designer Dillon G. Ya.) Developed at the Research Institute-52 of the Minaviaprom, with a powder jet engine. The PAT-52 turned out to be an original breakthrough product in the domestic torpedo industry, where, in addition to the engine, for the first time such innovations as safety fuses, bank leveling, and a unified control system for the air and underwater sector appeared (which they later preferred to forget up to now!).

The most surprising thing is that the PAT-52 did not require complicated maintenance, it turned out to be very reliable, despite the fact that it was developed in an extremely short time (1947-1952). We have to regret very much that its chief designer quickly passed away and did not manage to teach the torpedoists everything.


Il-28T in front of the suspension of the PAT-52 jet torpedo. 759 Khrabrovo airfield, late 60s.

In 1956, during the next reorganization, the aviation torpedo theme from the Research Mine and Torpedo Institute (NIMTI) of the Navy was transferred to the NII-15 Navy (later a branch of the Central Research Institute 30 of the Ministry of Defense), and NII-24 was first involved in the development of aircraft jet torpedoes. , and then a specially created Research Institute PGM (hereinafter NPO "Region"). But these were “classic” hydrodynamic torpedoes, only with a jet engine, and they should be the subject of a separate (and interesting) conversation. Let's go back to "supercavitation".

At the end of 1946, at NIO-12 TsAGI under the leadership of engineer-major G.V. Logvinovich, assigned from the Navy. applied research on the issues of cavitation of torpedo weapons began. The first running model was tested by G.V. Logvinovich. and Uvarov G.V. in December 1952 under the ice of the Pirogov reservoir near Moscow.

An experimental prototype of the torpedo was created at the Research Institute-1 of the Ministry of Agriculture The initial layout was proposed by G.V. Logvinovich: a disc, a profiled head part, a cylindrical part (with a fuel charge) and a converging aft part with torpedo-type stabilizers, rudders and a nozzle. The 1956 tests were unsuccessful. On the initiative of the chief engineer of NIMTI A.I. Larionov it was decided to install a "ropeway" and launch products "on a leash" And again failures and failures.

In 1957, the tests were stopped, but three enthusiastic stubborn people, P.I. Alferov, G.V. Uvarov. and IM Libinstein, after the analysis decided to return to launches in free motion (without the "cable car"), and success came, so far small - about 700 meters of rectilinear motion at a constant depth in just over 6 seconds. Additional tests followed, according to the results of which the development of the RKT-45 reactive cavitating torpedo for torpedo boats was set.

In 1960 Logvinovich G.V. prepared a report to the command of the Navy that achievements in the field of high-speed hydrodynamics in combination with a highly efficient ramjet jet engine, in principle, make it possible to create a unique high-speed cavitating submarine missile.

The report hit the top ten, because the government has just issued a decree on the creation of an automated nuclear submarine project 705 (general scientific leadership: Aleksandrov A.P. and Trapeznikov V.A.). In addition, the American magazine "Missails and Rocket" for 1958 published a program for the creation of new models of anti-submarine naval weapons in the United States, including data on the project of the EX-8 submarine missile, "equipped with a torpedo-type rocket or hydro-jet engine. providing a speed of 150 knots and more. "

On October 13, 1960, a Resolution of the Central Committee of the CPSU and the Council of Ministers was issued on the creation of a domestic super-high-speed torpedo "Shkval". Work on the RKT-45 torpedo was discontinued. MS Merkulov was appointed the chief designer of the Shkval. (from "artillerymen", who at that time were massively transferred to "rocket men"), scientific guidance was provided by NIO-12 TsAGI (Lotov A.B., Logvinovich G.B.).

In addition, TsAGI began the design of a large-scale reusable rocket-laboratory - "model 205", in the layout of which (similar to the M-1, the first experimental model of the "Shkval") provided:
- rotary cavitator with a central opening for water intake into the main engine;
- direct-flow hydrojet engine designed by MS Merkulov;
- detachable autonomous booster solid rocket motor;
- system of blowing into the cavity using compressed air.

In 1961, model 205 launches began on the Moscow Sea. Initially, the launches were successful. "Knockout" happened with the beginning of the development of the main section, model 205 lost controllability and took off the air. The M-1 rocket launches were also unsuccessful.

Taking into account the entire burden of responsibility, the Resolutions of the Central Committee of the CPSU and the Council of Ministers of the discussion of the current situation were extremely sharp and not always scientific and technical. Representatives of the Ministry of Industry and Trade demanded the transfer of R&D to R&D (for the practical nuances of R&D and R&D, see the material "Torpedo SET-53: Soviet" totalitarian ", but real"), or even better, complete cessation of work. In contrast to it, a group from the USSR Academy of Sciences, consisting of leading specialists and academicians V.A. Trapeznikov, A.A. Mikulin, Kh.A. Rakhmatullin, acted.

But theoretical science could not help here, success came after TsAGI's experiments on the study of the processes of starting an engine in a cavitation cavity. It became clear that it was necessary to make fundamental changes to the 205 model and the M-1 product. This was done in the shortest possible time, right at the test site. The accelerating stage was combined with the main engine. The accelerating stage was now located in the sub-caliber part and connected to the combustion chamber of the main engine, a single supersonic nozzle was installed, which ensured a continuous flow of gases in the acceleration and march sections.

The test results were positive. The Shkval variant with this layout was designated M-3. In May 1963, regular launches began from the test stand at Lake Issyk-Kul.

4 years have passed since the start of work, but its complexity was such that there were still 13 years of work ahead (that is, the total duration of development (R&D) of Shkval was 17 years). Former Deputy Head of the Department of Anti-Submarine Weapons of the Navy, R.A. Gusev wrote:

For EX-8, publications have ceased. It can be assumed that the Americans got to these problems and stopped. They are pragmatists. We are romantics. We need speed like air. We need a three-bird, albeit under water.

In 1967, M.S. Merkulov was replaced by V.R. Serov, who soon (but not for long) became the head of the established Research Institute PGM (future "Region").

In 1969, the M4-1-M variant of the Shkval passed the full range for the first time in accordance with the TTZ (tactical and technical assignment of the ROC). SRI PGM was strengthened by missilemen with the change of Serov to A.I. Zarubin. (director of Research Institute PGM) and Rakova E.D. (chief designer of the ROC), which ensured the completion of the development of "Shkval". The Shkval anti-submarine complex with the M5 missile was adopted by the Navy on November 29, 1977.


M-5 "Shkval".

Gusev R.A .:

About how and why the chief designers changed three times during the creation of the Shkval, I decided to ask GV Uvarov. It was brief:
- All three played a significant role in the creation of the underwater missile. But I would give the first place to M.S. Merkulov. Under him, the main scientific and technical problems were solved, the appearance of an underwater rocket was formed.
- And why was it replaced?
- I would say that he did not work well with the leadership of TsAGI. At that time, the head of TsAGI was V.M. Myasishchev, a well-known aircraft designer ... Myasishchev intuitively felt that the chief designer should interact more closely with TsAGI. After some time, V.R. Serov became the director of NII-24. Appointed for scale. He worked for V.P. Makeev, and it was rumored that their cooperation did not work out. Serov was the smartest man, focused on the future, but with a Napoleonic character. It seems to me that his character was ruined. After some time, the development of "Shkval" was continued by DE Rakov, and Serov took up the prospect: under him the Research Institute of PTM was created. Rakov made his creative contribution by creating another modification of the rocket, now M-5, under the banner of increasing reliability, manufacturability, etc. But our paths here decisively diverged. By this time, Logvinovich pushed me slightly aside as a possible competitor. But for you to know, I firmly adhere to the position that Rakov and Logvinovich have significantly increased the development period ...

Flurry Result


200 knots under water, and even 10 km, is an outstanding result. The only problem is where to put it.

Initially "Shkval" went to the 705 project, which had unique speed and maneuverability characteristics, moreover, as an example of high-speed underwater weapons, complementing the Vyuga anti-submarine missile (PLR) (actually "covering" its "dead zone"). It was as part of the combat complex 705 of the project, and "Blizzard" and "Shkval" were "a single whole", and were effectively provided with target designation of a powerful sonar tract of the SJSC "Ocean".

Here it must be borne in mind that in the US Navy since the mid-60s. in service was the Sabroc PLR (only with nuclear weapons - YABP). The war with the United States was then considered exclusively with the use of nuclear weapons.

However, the mass series 705 of the project did not go, and on all other projects the "bottlenecks" of the Shkval were acute, first of all, significant restrictions on the launch depth, the angle of the post-launch turn, and only the nuclear option. When, in the overwhelming majority of cases, for the same 671RTM, the battle will begin with an acoustician's report "Torpedo 90 Right !!!", "Shkval" (which in this situation is simply impossible to use) turns from a weapon into ballast, which simply takes ) torpedo tube (TA). And if there are two "Shkvalov" on the boat, then minus two TA (at the request of the relevant authorities, underwater weapons with nuclear warheads of the Navy were stored only in TA).

An attack on surface targets? However, the distance of 10 km left our submarines little chance of secretly reaching it against ships with good hydroacoustics.

High-speed submarine missiles (SPR) are fatally inferior to PLR in terms of range and ensuring the minimum delivery time of the warhead to the target.


"Shkval" and PLR 84RN, demonstration of equipment on the day of the Navy in 2019, Arkhangelsk. The range of the PLR ​​is about 4 times longer than that of the Shkval

The thesis of the “under-ice use” of the Shkval is not substantiated due to the very small marching depth of the Shkval and the unacceptably high probability of collision with ice. This problem was understood, and one of the directions of development of the missile defense system immediately became an increase in the marching depth, but this required a significant increase in speed, and therefore new energy requirements (which were already limiting for a 53-cm product, for example, "Shkval" had a mass of 2,7 , 65 t with a SET-1,7 torpedo mass of XNUMX t).


"Shkval-E" and UGST, the range differs by about 5 times

However, the most critical issue was that the effective firing ranges of Western torpedoes (telecontrolled) submarines were significantly greater than the full range of the Shkval. Those. US Navy submarines had the opportunity to shoot our submarines with torpedoes and "Shkvalami" with impunity from a safe distance for themselves (they were only afraid of submarines). Some possibilities would have been in the 65 cm SPR, but they never appeared, and today in the Navy "thick" TA is generally anathema.

Along with all this, "Shkval" has become a powerful PR factor, and even in the days of the USSR. The extremely difficult situation with the torpedoes of the USSR Navy was realized, incl. and above (in the Central Committee of the CPSU), and then the fleet, for a cheerful report, drew the argument: not everything is bad, here we have a "Shkval", but not in the USA.

Here it is appropriate to recall the espionage case of E. Pope (2000) about the alleged US attempts to seize the secrets of the "Shkval". In reality, at the time of 2000, the US “Flurry” was simply not interesting. There are good reasons to believe that the United States had not only documentation on it, but also samples ... At the same time, it would not be a bad thing for domestic specialists (and representatives of the relevant authorities) to figure out (for the good of the case) what really interested Pope (and in which corral the topic of these works, where we once were in the lead, eventually ended up with us).

In 1995, at the international arms exhibition in Abu Dhabi, the State Scientific and Production Enterprise "Region" was presented an export version of the SPR - "Shkval-E". The nuclear warhead was replaced by a conventional warhead with a TNT equivalent of slightly more than 200 kg to destroy surface targets. Given the absence of a homing system, the effective range of Shkval-E did not exceed 7 km.

Shkval development


The development of the MSS in the USSR continued continuously, and new variants went into operation even before the completion of the ROC "Shkval". At the same time, the main direction was increasing the speed up to more than 150 m / s (300 knots), increasing the depth (march and launch), expanding the conditions of use and the possibility of using a non-nuclear warhead (with homing). The search went through the widest range of options possible at times was on the verge of fantasy.

In the form of specific projects, work was carried out on the themes "Shkval-15" and "Shkval-15B" with the release of a new generation of SPR with dramatically improved performance characteristics. Work on "Shkval-15B" crippled the 1990s, and to our great regret, a lot of useful and useful things were missing. "Shkval-15B" has become the swan song of Uvarov G.V. People who worked with him noted his extremely objective view of the topic, an extremely critical attitude to "satisfying scientific curiosity at the expense of the state."

From the standpoint of today we have to regret that "Shkval-15B" was not completed, it was the maximum possible, but at a very reasonable cost. Moreover, the combat equipment for this missile defense system was extremely promising for a number of other topics of the Navy. But in the 90s, in order to survive, enterprises had to cut live. We chose the theme of anti-torpedoes (“Lasta”), which later became “Packet” and “Physicist”.


From the book "Science of St. Petersburg and the Sea Power of Russia". St. Petersburg, 2002

In the 2000s, when funding became more available, work on the topic continued, but with all the specifics of the new economic conditions. And in all the color and aroma it manifested itself in the Predator theme (more on this later).

From the passport of the innovative development program of Tactical Missile Armament Corporation for the period up to 2020:

For underwater high-speed missiles.
1. Combat equipment providing high efficiency of destruction of NK in the minimum permissible time.
2. Passing the distance to the target at a given depth with a high average trajectory speed in the developed cavitation mode.
3. Magnetometric guidance system, which allows with a high probability to determine the moment of passage in the target zone and give a command to separate the combat equipment.


During the military-technical forum "Army-2015" a round table "Marine underwater weapons (MPS): realities and prospects" was held, among the reports was the speech of the chief designer of JSC "State Scientific and Production Enterprise" Region "IV Garanin. "Prospects for the development of high-speed underwater objects." The report (as well as the whole topic of the round table) caused a heated discussion, incl. resonance in the media. The author's position was set out in the article “Russia's naval underwater weapons today and tomorrow. Will the breakthrough be made out of the torpedo crisis? ".

High-speed submarine missiles (SPR). The main conceptual flaw in the development of the SPR is that the effective ranges of the enemy torpedo salvo since the beginning of the 80s of the last century significantly exceeded the effective ranges of the SPR. Those. the enemy was able to covertly shoot torpedoes from a safe distance for himself. In addition, in the conditions of "pure water", SPRs completely lose (in terms of the time of delivery of the warhead to the target) anti-submarine missiles. In fact, the only tactically justified area of ​​their application is the Arctic.
At the same time, for a long time we have underestimated the most interesting and promising direction for the development of supercavitational ammunition - the "small-caliber" one, in which the West worked successfully. From the positive in the reports of the round table "Army-15", it should be noted that the prospects of the "small-caliber direction" of the SMR are recognized by the leading domestic experts.


At the same round table, the report of the director of NPK Max, OJSC NPP Radar MMS, VV Averkiev, took place. “Magnetometric guidance systems for naval underwater weapons in conditions of massive hydraulic resistance. Theory and results ”. With a rather scandalous discussion. From the article “Russia's naval underwater weapons today and tomorrow. Will the breakthrough be made out of the torpedo crisis? " about magnetometric guidance system:

... a discussion on one of the "innovative detection systems" that the 1st Central Research Institute "thrust" into almost all current R&D projects. At the same time, the head of the development organization admitted that from the real backlog there are only "results of mathematical modeling", from which it follows that the maximum range of such equipment is very limited. At the same time, some "experts" justified the termination of promising research projects on the subject of acoustic CLS by its implementation! As they say, a mistake is worse than a crime! Although ... maybe the point is that the head of the torpedo department of the 1st Central Research Institute defended his dissertation on this "innovative topic"? As a result, significant state funds were spent, the scarce materiel of the ROC was used to work out these "scientific studies" with deliberately dubious effectiveness, the really necessary the fleet R&D is only based on "mathematical modeling" (ie, without real tests on prototypes!).
At the same time, there really is an area of ​​effective application for this equipment, but instead, this equipment is prescribed for obviously non-optimal directions.

The article did not indicate the most scandalous moment of this discussion: the specialists of the Navy and Mr. Averkiev declared the alleged impossibility of countering such equipment by means of hydroacoustic counteraction (SGPD), and this was also cheerfully reported to the leadership. In fact, it was just a play on words: the GSPD, as a rule, were hydroacoustics means, and, accordingly, could not influence the magnetometric means.

The only problem was that a number of Western SRS (for example, the Mk30 simulator) have, in addition to acoustics, a magnetometric imitation channel (for practicing aviation on them). At the same time, the same Mr. Averkiev, during the round table, declared about "the need to create imitation tools" for working out his magnetometric channel, and this was done an hour after the statement about the "impossibility of this"! To the author's question as to how such opposite statements fit together, the answer was a painful silence. Actually, everything was clear to everyone.

From the article “Russia's naval underwater weapons today and tomorrow. Will the breakthrough come from the "torpedo crisis?"

The author was directly related to the events related to the MPS and the development of the MPS concept, since since 2007 he worked closely on this topic with Admiral G. A. Suchkov, Admiral of the Russian Defense Minister. Taking into account the critical situation with the IGO of the Navy, Admiral Suchkov in 2007 sent a memo addressed to the Minister of Defense of the Russian Federation. Without touching upon the issue of Serdyukov's numerous mistakes (including in the part of the clumsy reform of the command and control bodies of the RF Armed Forces), in that situation he behaved like a normal defense minister: give a concept ("business plan"), "there will be funding for it." However, the development and approval of the IGO concept was then disrupted. This was primarily due to the intrigues of certain individuals and organizations, given that the number of decisions planned by the Anti-Submarine Weapons Directorate (UPV) of the Navy (in particular, on the Fizik torpedo) was fundamentally at odds with their financial interests.

One of these intrigues was the Predator OCD. Alas, instead of the maximum possible from the technically real, which was in the "Shkval-15B", the "Predator" initially had maximum opportunities for the development of budgetary funds by the right people (here is a magnetometric system pulled by the ears, behind which protruded the ears of a significant number of people with shoulder straps and without, prepared to master the sweet budget pie).

A tough and negative attitude towards the "Predator" was formed by the author during the period of work on the projects of the concept of naval underwater weapons at Admiral Suchkov. Lobbyists of this topic tried to justify "their own", up to the almost complete replacement of torpedoes and submarine missiles by "Predators".

Moreover, the Predator ROC opened in 2009 turned out to be not only terribly expensive, but, in fact, the only serious ROC on the subject of underwater weapons at that moment. At the same time, we had a catastrophic situation with torpedoes, not only in terms of their military-technical backwardness, but also simply by their presence ... At that time, it came to the point that our submarines went to combat services, having only a few torpedoes in ammunition. And in this situation, the "Predator" was nothing more than a feast during the plague.

Yes, in this situation, they tried to put some very necessary and correct things and developments into it ... But for some reason they were “lost” in the process, despite the fact that without them the possibility of the “Predator” to work as intended raises serious questions.


"Answer", "Package", "Predator". The names of topics, the author's attitude to which is obvious (the answer is the severed head of the Predator in the Package, if someone did not understand). The reaction of specialists to the drawing (from the author's office, 2012) was the most positive, but in the form of laughter through tears

In 2016, the title of the topic "Predator" was "lit up" in the media. JSC "KB" Electropribor "(Saratov) presented application presentation to participate in the competition "Aircraft Builder of the Year", based on the results of 2015, held by the Union of Aircraft Manufacturers of Russia.

Since 2013 ... it has been carried out within the framework of the state defense order for the development of the Predator research and development work.
At the end of 2016, it is planned to carry out preliminary tests of the submarine missile component, including sea trials of the apparatus, according to the results of which the design documentation of the submarine missile component of the letter "O" will be assigned.

Our popular media did not lose face. Headlines like: "Predator" - the perfect killer of aircraft carriers. The Shkval is being replaced by an even more powerful rocket torpedo "...

What is the bottom line? Especially taking into account the fact that it is 2020, and the letter "O" (that is, the completion of preliminary tests and the transition to the state stage) were promised by the accomplices of this process back in 2016? As a result, today arbitration.

For example, the case No. A57-15277 / 2019.

As follows from the materials of the case, on May 03, 2013 between OJSC Gavrilov-Yamskiy machine-building plant “Agat” (Contractor) and OJSC “KB Elektropribor” (Customer), an agreement No. 130-VP-1 was concluded for the implementation of an integral part of the development work.
According to clause 1.1 of the contract, the Contractor undertakes to fulfill and timely deliver to the Customer in accordance with the requirements and terms of the contract and the Execution List, and the Customer undertakes to accept and pay for the component part of the work "Predator-OKP" defense order and agreement of 411, No. 12.11.2009/253/08 / K / 8-0013 for the work of the Predator, concluded between the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation and JSC GNPP Region (Resolution of the Government of the Russian Federation of 09 No. 29.12.2009-1036, dated 55, No. 12.08.2009-658).

All this is very sad, and not only because huge funds were "devoured" (and at the moment when they were critically lacking for torpedoes), but also because the chief designer of the "Predator" is an outstanding and promising specialist and leader ... Unfortunately, we have very few queens, but there are too many of those about whom they say “the product is afraid of water, because its chief designer is afraid of water” (in this particular case, sea tests were meant).

At the same time, you need to understand that queens do not grow on trees, and their inclinations can only be revealed as a result of thoughtful, reasonable and hard work to create a new one. Young Korolev S.P. was a completely different person (sometimes with very ambiguous actions and decisions) than the world-famous “chief” Korolev.

Alas, Predator OCD is not a topic that shapes queens.

What to do with her now? Finish. And not in the form of "third grade is not a marriage", as they are trying to do today, but starting with an objective disclosure of all problems and their objective assessment, removal of all "cutting" points from the requirements for the product, but the unconditional fulfillment (and real confirmation!) Of those which are key in combat.

There is some usefulness of such products, and not only in the Arctic. The same Sea of ​​Okhotsk in winter is covered with ice cover over a significant part of the area. However, it is necessary to clearly and fundamentally realize that the 53 cm SPR, due to the significant lag in the range of use from torpedoes, can only be considered as an auxiliary means in battle.

Here it would be appropriate to quote the phrase of a major Russian specialist in the subject, said at the beginning of 2010:

We made a strategic mistake chasing monsters. All the fun in supercavitation is in small calibers.

And the interesting thing is the possibility of all-depth movement (and not the constant and extremely shallow depth of the "monsters"), active maneuvering, installation of homing systems. However, this was possible only on products of a significantly smaller caliber than 53 cm. There was a certain backlog in this part - these were aviation anti-submarine missiles, which in some cases went into "semi-cavitation mode". However, we did not take decisive steps towards full-scale work in this direction ...

Supercavitation with so-called partners. West and East


From Jane's International Defense Review, December 2001:

As part of the Supercav program, the Research Center for Submarine Warfare is testing technologies for high-speed (over 200 knots) supercavitational weapons, a full-scale demonstration of which can be carried out in five years. It is possible to use this weapon to create anti-torpedoes and a promising light torpedo. At present, the Research Center is working on the creation of a full-scale model of a supercavitational projectile coupled with the ASROCVL (VLA) PLUR without the Mk-46 torpedo, instead of which a Supercav is installed, which will have an underwater speed of more than 200 knots. at a distance of 2750 m. The head of the projectile is covered with a conical cavitator, which can carry an array of sensors, including more than 120 broadband hydroacoustic elements to ensure target acquisition at a distance of more than 900 m.

Unlike our "monsters", R&D on the subject of supercavitation in the United States went in the direction of the most effective subject. The situation was similar in the Federal Republic of Germany, which conducted similar studies. Taking this factor into account, at a certain stage, the work in the United States and the Federal Republic of Germany was merged, but so far they are being conducted only at the level of experiments and the development of scientific groundwork.




Layout and cross-section of the Barraсuda supercavitating torpedo (Germany, USA)

Given the sufficient effectiveness of small-sized torpedoes, there is no need for supercavitating weapons yet. So far ... But the development of torpedo defenses significantly changes this alignment. Today, an attacking small-sized torpedo is very likely to be destroyed by the M15 anti-torpedo, but it can hit an object at a speed of over 200 knots. impossible.

Accordingly, Western countries form the necessary scientific and technical groundwork in order to translate it into real ROC at the right time.

Work on this topic is being carried out in China, as evidenced by some extremely fragmentary information from the "Chinese Internet".


From Chinese works on supercavitation

At the same time, it is necessary to objectively understand that China both "semi-officially" and through the channels of the special services received a very large amount of information on the "Shkval" from Kazakhstan and Kyrgyzstan (the media mentioned the delivery of 40 Shkval missiles by Kazakhstan).

As for the "Iranian supercavitating torpedo", it will be enough just to give its photo:


The fact is obvious.

Ultra small calibers


From the article "High-speed submarine missiles of submarines" E. S. Shakhidzhanov and Yu. V. Suslov:

Research work of the 80s. for small-caliber missiles, underwater NURS (PNURS), which, in the presence of target designation, are a highly effective and cheap means of anti-torpedo protection ... working out an entrance without a ricochet for two-medium small-caliber vehicles ... PNURS with speeds of 250-300 m / s and more are possible from the air for underwater targets and vice versa.

Gusev R.A:

Submarine missiles, in particular, will be able to cope in the future with the task of ensuring self-defense of submarines from enemy torpedoes.

An echo of those works:


Those. at the turn of the beginning of the 90s. we were definitely and significantly ahead of everyone else.

And now? And now we are chasing "monsters" (more precisely, abundant use of budgetary funds for "monsters".

At the same time in the USA and a number of other countries (for example, Norway, DSG company):


The real work of the US Navy to provide anti-torpedo protection with supercavitating ammunition

Slightly and slightly the author touched on this topic in 2015 in the article "Each torpedo has a shell".

Separately, it is necessary to touch upon the allegedly US Navy's anti-mine system RAMICS with a laser radar station supposedly detecting mines and destroying them with supercavitating shells.


The problem is that, according to the assessment of competent domestic experts, the RAMICS laser station by its design features is primarily an anti-submarine means of detecting the "trace" of submarines. Accordingly, our specialists have good reason to think hard about the real (and not declared) purposes of the RAMICS gun.

Why is this question posed in a public article? But because these questions were raised many times before those "who are supposed to". With a near-zero result ...

A conversation with "modern specialists" of the Russian Navy at the Army 2020 forum on this topic provoked an interesting reaction:

- What, did we have something on this part?

- Actually, it was, and with huge statistics of work, only now it managed to be covered with a thick layer of dust (although, most likely, it is still a worker), waiting for the attention of the customer (who was reported about this many times).

conclusions


If at the beginning of the 90s. Since we were certainly and significantly in the lead in the subject of supercavitation, today we are objectively and significantly outstripped by foreign competitors.

Today, three main areas of work have been identified:
- large-sized items of 53 cm caliber ("Shkval", "Predator"), capable only of straight-line movement at shallow depths with the possibility of equipping with "passengers" such as nuclear warheads or ordinary small-sized torpedoes (which is what we focus on);
- small-sized all-deep maneuverable products with homing systems (which is the focus in the West);
- ultra-small items of the "cannon projectile" type (where we were in the lead for a long time, but today we have completely given this topic to the West).

The key reason for the emerging and already significant lag is the unreasonable bet on "monsters" of 53 cm caliber, despite the fact that they are deliberately flawed and lose to torpedoes and anti-submarine missiles in most tactical situations, up to the fact that our submarine with "Predators" the enemy can shoot torpedoes from a safe distance with absolutely impunity.
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  1. Grandfather
    Grandfather 30 September 2020 05: 45
    +2
    Supercavitating torpedo "Shikval»
    with an accent said? winked
  2. The leader of the Redskins
    The leader of the Redskins 30 September 2020 06: 00
    +4
    I learned about the "squall" from the newspapers (the above spy story).
    The article explains a lot. Thanks to the author.
    1. gridasov
      gridasov 30 September 2020 09: 10
      +7
      The author is definitely a brave and intelligent person because he told the truth. At the same time, it is already clear that it is useless to wait for the results in the absence of initial theoretical foundations. This is a completely new level of physical processes.
      1. Local from the Volga
        Local from the Volga 4 October 2020 23: 03
        0
        got it !!!!
        1. gridasov
          gridasov 5 October 2020 08: 30
          0
          Those who silently create innovative weapons will get it. We offer the unreasonable what they themselves will never come to.
  3. Jacket in stock
    Jacket in stock 30 September 2020 06: 55
    14
    In 1991, perestroika won the country under the slogan "enrich yourself!"

    Has anything changed since then?
  4. Aviator_
    Aviator_ 30 September 2020 08: 17
    +4
    Georgy Vladimirovich Logvinovich (1913-2002), mentioned by the author, became an academician in 1967 (however, the Academy of Sciences of the Ukrainian SSR). Nevertheless, this is significantly higher than the current academician of the RAS B.S. Alyoshin (2016), the reformer of AvtoVAZ.
    1. Rushnairfors
      Rushnairfors 30 September 2020 10: 38
      +8
      Sad and sad. Is there anything positive about the fleet?
      1. Alien From
        Alien From 30 September 2020 20: 17
        +4
        Unfortunately, to be honest, there is practically nothing ...
      2. psiho117
        psiho117 30 September 2020 23: 57
        +4
        Well, why - the minesweeper was launched the other day, the corvette went into running gear ...
        Submarines are slowly being built and modernized.
        The Karakurt was riveted in order.
        And so that something serious is not. There were a lot of plans, now it is clear that we will not pull even a quarter of what was planned.
        1. Fizik M
          Fizik M 1 October 2020 19: 24
          +1
          a bit of reality
          Quote: psiho117
          the minesweeper was launched the other day,

          https://topwar.ru/156497-chto-ne-tak-s-novejshim-pmk-proekta-12700.html
          Quote: psiho117
          the corvette went out to run ..

          https://topwar.ru/155697-korvet-20386-prodolzhenie-afery.html
          Quote: psiho117
          Submarines are slowly being built

          https://topwar.ru/157559-apkr-severodvinsk-proekt-885-jasen-sdan-vmf-s-kriticheskimi-dlja-ego-boesposobnosti-nedodelkami-protivotorpednoj-zaschity-podlodok-vmf-rf-net.html
      3. Fizik M
        Fizik M 1 October 2020 19: 25
        +1
        Quote: Rushnairfors
        Sad and sad. Is there anything positive about the fleet?

        https://topwar.ru/156666-antitorpedy-my-poka-vperedi-no-nas-uzhe-obgonjajut.html
  5. gridasov
    gridasov 30 September 2020 08: 43
    -3
    The fact that all PR projects are already clear. Because there is no scientific theoretical basis for the use of cavitation. There is no theory of ionization. Mathematical modeling on a variable of a function of a number is equivalent to an analysis on binary logic, and not on large data
    1. Local from the Volga
      Local from the Volga 4 October 2020 23: 05
      0
      Get out of here, dreamer! not tired of making people laugh ?!
      1. gridasov
        gridasov 5 October 2020 08: 33
        0
        The lot of slaves is visible from intolerance to what the mind is not enough
  6. Operator
    Operator 30 September 2020 09: 10
    -10 qualifying.
    Purely specifically humanitarian article laughing

    The new large-caliber Predator-class supercavitating torpedo will be equipped with a hydrojet engine not powered by magnesium, but by aluminum (with more energy) and a magnetometric guidance system based on a quantum magnetometer, which are on the market as mud
    https://geodevice.ru/main/magnetometers/quantummag/

    Plus the transition to the use of a passive head cavitator instead of a gas-dynamic one. That's all.

    After that, the new analogue of "Shkval" will have twice the range, be used at any depth (limited by structural strength) and homing on a floating craft with a displacement of about 10000 tons from a distance of 5 km. The large turning radius of a 200-knot torpedo with 100-ktn special warheads at a travel distance of 20 km when firing at a specified target is nothing at all. To tune the MCH from the means of magnetometric countermeasures, onboard equipment with a powerful processor and magnetometric target signatures is required.

    The mention in the article about a completely different class of torpedo weapons (small-caliber supercavitating counter-torpedoes with a rocket rather than a jet engine) is a clear indicator of the author's "competence".

    PS In connection with the introduction into service of small-caliber anti-torpedo missiles and the ongoing development of supercavitating depth charges with a magnetometric CH and a launching rocket accelerator, golimous blade-propelled torpedoes with a speed of less than 100 knots of the Mk48 type will soon be scrapped along with their lobbyists.
    1. gridasov
      gridasov 30 September 2020 09: 35
      +1
      You yourself answered! ROCKET MOTORS MAKE THE TORPED UNCONTROLLED. Vane engines are generally not applicable for high speeds. Therefore, new principles of movement support and controlled maneuvering are needed. What no one has!
      1. Fizik M
        Fizik M 1 October 2020 19: 22
        +1
        Quote: gridasov
        ROCKET MOTORS MAKE THE TORPED UNDER CONTROL

        tell this YOUR AKHINA APR-1 and APR-2


        otherwise they "do not know" laughing such a "creative"
    2. rtutaloe
      rtutaloe 30 September 2020 11: 06
      14
      And I will someday be the crown prince of the principality of Monaco. It is enough that the main Russian media, well, or seedy Internet bloggers, just mention this. ))) What is the mistake about rocket engines? As far as I know, missile is a subdivision of jet. Moreover, this is more accurate than just declaring reactive. What kind of jet do you mean: hydroreactive, with low or high bypass? )) A man wrote you a whole article about how good it is in slogans and hypotheses, and how difficult everything is then on tests and in practice. Actually, I have already read a million of such articles about completely different domestic and world projects. And your comment is absolutely humanitarian and populist. In practice, the development of all post-Stalinist projects on the territory of the USSR, and then Russia, is mainly scandal-intrigue and corruption. What is only one miracle of the "Buran" project worth? We have also forgotten about the high-profile project "Black Shark", which won trials against the Mi-28 "Crutch". Only for some reason, the "Black Shark" project was reborn into the "Alligator" project and itself was completely closed, and the Russian army adopted more "Crutches" than "Sharks" and "Alligators" combined. However, those for whom the model of the Su-57 has been cooler since 2011 than the 180 Raptors in service with the United States, especially as any young blogger says so, will not understand the anguish of those pragmatists who are inside the topic. And at the expense of "it will be with aluminum" - that's when it will be and when it will prove its effectiveness, and when they are stamped in an amount sufficient to ensure the country's defense capability - then it will be. In the meantime, all this "will be" - fairy tales about flying crocodiles that no one has seen.
      And the article is transcript.
      1. Operator
        Operator 30 September 2020 13: 13
        +3
        Hydroreactive single-circuit.

        Hydrojet engines run on metal fuel and an aqueous oxidizer (they consist of a water intake device, a combustion chamber and a nozzle), rocket engines in torpedoes run on hydrocarbon-oxygen fuel (they consist of a combustion chamber and a nozzle).
    3. Alex.ET
      Alex.ET 30 September 2020 11: 47
      0
      Increasing the range by half is not enough. the article mentions that the squall has a range of 10 km, and competitors are 4-5 times larger.
      1. Operator
        Operator 30 September 2020 13: 07
        -2
        "Competitors" Shkvala / Physics in the face of small-caliber supercavitating anti-torpedoes with a rocket engine have a range within 5 km.
        1. Fizik M
          Fizik M 1 October 2020 19: 19
          -1
          Quote: Operator
          in the face of small-caliber supercavitating anti-torpedoes with a rocket engine, they have a range within 5 km.

          fool
          less, Dyusha, less
          and much
    4. The comment was deleted.
    5. Fizik M
      Fizik M 5 October 2020 09: 26
      0
      Quote: Operator
      Purely specifically humanitarian article

      no, Dyusha, article professional, but open to the public
      it's just that your fillet is on fire lol
      Quote: Operator
      The new large-caliber Predator-class supercavitating torpedo will be equipped with a hydrojet engine not on magnesium but on aluminum (with more energy)

      Dyusha, "Shkval" was not made of aluminum even before the VA-111 was finished
      only now, I will give a quote from Bozin on a "related topic":
      The first major scientist was engaged in exotic fuels and knew everything about them. The 1nd prominent scientist burned aluminum in sea water. We worked "for the future." The first major believed that the second major was engaged in dead-end work and there would be no real way out of it. That it is possible that the Americans embroiled the 2nd major in an obviously unsolvable problem to divert scientific forces to the wrong direction. The second major was strongly disagree with the first and stubbornly burned aluminum. I started with the fact that the aluminum burned for… 1 seconds! Down and Out trouble started! The process has begun! As a result of persistent fifteen years of work, the process lasted already ... 2 seconds. After that, it became clear to scientists that the work could be completed only by the end of the millennium, but not on the 2nd, but on the 2rd. (The ignoramuses have long understood that nothing will come of this swarm ...).

      Quote: Operator
      magnetometric guidance system based on a quantum magnetometer, which are on the market as mud

      fool
      yes, "let's go and bought at a flea market" lol
      and now Dyusha, Make the people laugh - as a 53cm "monster" (and which in the supercavitation mode can only go under the condition of the "trapezoid") will be "guided and controlled" "according to your" wassat


      Quote: Operator
      That's all.
      After that, the new analogue of Shkval will have twice the range, be used at any depth ... PS In connection with the introduction of small-caliber anti-torpedo missiles and the ongoing development of supercavitating depth charges with a magnetometric CH and a launching rocket accelerator, golny torpedoes with a blade propeller and speed less than 100 Mk48 nodes will soon be scrapped along with their lobbyists.

      fool
      Clear ...
      In short, these "brain analyzes" - in the "jar and to the doctors" ...
      laughing
    6. Andrey sh
      Andrey sh 10 October 2020 17: 27
      0
      These torpedoes need to be DETECTED first. And if we consider that now up to 50 km of optics torpedoes can be controlled, then detecting a passive torpedo will not be easy. Destroying a tracked target has no problem ...
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  8. Alex.ET
    Alex.ET 30 September 2020 14: 57
    -2
    Quote: Alex.ET
    Increasing the range by half is not enough. the article mentions that the squall has a range of 10 km, and competitors are 4-5 times larger.

    Quote: Operator
    "Competitors" Shkvala / Physics in the face of small-caliber supercavitating anti-torpedoes with a rocket engine have a range within 5 km.

    We are talking about competitors - about conventional torpedoes, to which the "squall" loses devilishly in range because of the range - almost the same thing as equipping a soldier with a 4-caliber duck - it does not dance at all against a machine gun. In short, the last paragraph of the article.
    1. Operator
      Operator 1 October 2020 21: 29
      -3
      The point is that all blade-propelled torpedoes, regardless of their range, are 100% guaranteed to be intercepted by modern rocket-powered counter-torpedoes.

      Therefore, there is no sense in vane-propelled torpedoes from the word at all.
      1. Fizik M
        Fizik M 2 October 2020 01: 58
        -1
        Quote: Operator
        The point is that all blade-propelled torpedoes, regardless of their range, are 100% guaranteed to be intercepted by modern rocket-powered counter-torpedoes.

        fool
        Dyusha, this nonsense and ACHINEA are your next "bubbles from a puddle".
        If an ESU M17 were installed on Lasta as an EDM, its efficiency would have increased dramatically
  9. xomaNN
    xomaNN 30 September 2020 15: 12
    +1
    Few of the promising weapons flickered into the DESTRUCTION of the perestroika chaos. As a torpedo operator, then with interest I read laudatory odes to "Shkvalu". It's a pity that after 20 years she did not become our trump card in submarine war drinks
    1. garri-lin
      garri-lin 30 September 2020 19: 28
      +2
      How could a purely defensive torpedo become a trump card?
      1. Al_lexx
        Al_lexx 1 October 2020 08: 00
        0
        Quote: garri-lin
        How could a purely defensive torpedo become a trump card?

        I also cannot understand the twists and turns of the brain of the author of the article, who compares the stiletto to a crossbow. Moreover, a bunch of terribly "harassed" argue how much senseless the development of such a rocket-torpedo was. Natural adiisrael. )))
        1. garri-lin
          garri-lin 1 October 2020 08: 47
          +2
          The development of such a product is justified by the accumulation of practical experience. Everything else is already pretty bonuses. Great product.
        2. Fizik M
          Fizik M 1 October 2020 17: 12
          -1
          Quote: Al_lexx
          I can't understand the brain twists of the author of the article

          Monsieur twists and turns here YOURS
  10. prodi
    prodi 30 September 2020 16: 25
    -1
    I did not understand: Flurry is a weapon of submarines and it is quite natural that it loses in range to anti-submarine missiles and conventional torpedoes with a lower speed. But why can't it be made wire-controlled?
    1. psiho117
      psiho117 30 September 2020 18: 20
      0
      Quote: prodi
      why can't it be made wire-controlled?

      because it was originally developed for a nuclear warhead, for firing a salvo at AUG - with plus or minus bast shoes.
      And how can you direct it? The flurry creates a loud noise that clogs up all signatures from enemy ships.
      1. prodi
        prodi 30 September 2020 20: 03
        -1
        a couple of slowdowns at a distance for correction followed by acceleration? And the torpedo itself, when communicating by wire, could play the role of a "microphone" brought out to the target
        1. psiho117
          psiho117 30 September 2020 23: 49
          +4
          Quote: prodi
          a couple of brakes

          Will drown. It actually works at depths of up to 30 meters - further the pressure does not allow creating a cavitation bubble.
          the torpedo itself, when communicating by wire, could play the role of a "microphone" brought out to the target

          A microphone inside a torpedo moving at a speed of 100 m / s, with a working hydrojet engine, and inside a supercavitation bubble? belay belay belay
          1. prodi
            prodi 1 October 2020 07: 16
            -1
            - braking from 200 knots to 30-50
            - use the microphone in a slowed state; although the "nasal needle" protruding beyond the cavity, probably, also something could
            1. psiho117
              psiho117 1 October 2020 14: 59
              +2
              Quote: prodi
              braking

              Frankly speaking, a continuous jet engine and an engine that can be "muffled" and then "fired up" are two very big the difference.
              It is so different in its constructive complexity that hardly anyone would think of putting it into a torpedo.
              1. prodi
                prodi 1 October 2020 15: 17
                -1
                I agree only in the case of a solid fuel engine
              2. Fizik M
                Fizik M 1 October 2020 19: 17
                +2
                Quote: psiho117
                Let me put it bluntly - a continuous jet engine and an engine that can be "muffled" and then "fired up" are two very big differences.
                It is so different in its constructive complexity that hardly anyone would think of putting it into a torpedo.

                tried
                "Tapir"
            2. Crimean partisan 1974
              Crimean partisan 1974 3 October 2020 08: 55
              -1
              - slowing down from 200 knots to 30-50 ... yes, there is no need for any tricks. A flurry at a distance of 7 km is controlled by a cable up to 20 km by a forward vehicle with a nuclear warhead ... if you look closely at the aft chatsy VA-111 and that's what you will see there ... this is a connector with a cable view
              1. Fizik M
                Fizik M 3 October 2020 11: 26
                0
                Quote: Crimean partisan 1974
                .if you take a closer look at the aft chatsy VA-111 and this is what you will see there ... this is a connector with a cable view tunnel

                lol
                what YOU called the "tunnel" is in fact called ARVD-100 (and has nothing to do with the TU, except that it has a variant with the STU data transmission channel, it does not, it is stupid discontinuous data entry aggregate)
          2. Fizik M
            Fizik M 1 October 2020 19: 17
            +1
            Quote: psiho117
            It actually works at depths of up to 30 meters - further the pressure does not allow creating a cavitation bubble.

            Allows
            BUT - for ultra-fast products of small caliber
      2. Al_lexx
        Al_lexx 1 October 2020 07: 57
        0
        Quote: psiho117
        because it was originally developed for a nuclear warhead, for firing a salvo at AUG - with plus or minus bast shoes.

        Look carefully at the performance characteristics of the first version of "Shkval" and think about what will happen under water, at a distance of five to eight kilometers from an underwater nuclear explosion, and then broadcast all Wikipedia nonsense! Here the bombers barely have time to dump after being dropped, despite the fact that the detonation occurs in the atmosphere. which still has the property of shrinking, unlike water. Depth charges hit the submarine with a sledgehammer, even at a distance of tens of meters, and here is an ultra-small (most likely) nuclear warhead, with a capacity of several kilotons. lol
        1. psiho117
          psiho117 1 October 2020 15: 20
          +5
          Quote: Al_lexx
          think about what will happen under water, at a distance of five to eight kilometers from an underwater nuclear explosion, and then broadcast all sorts of wikipedia nonsense!

          I will not "think", I am referring to the facts - the tests of Soviet nuclear torpedoes, we take the first one that came across: the test of the T-5 torpedo in 1957.
          10kt, depth 35m.
          The submarine at a distance of 250m from the explosion - sank instantly.
          At a distance of 350m - severe damage, sank 4 hours later.
          The submarine at a distance of 700m - damage to the TA, incapable of combat.
          The second (also 700m), lying on the ground at a depth of 30m - did not learn any damage.

          So it is you who are "broadcasting nonsense" here, with your stories about the overwhelming sledgehammers hitting submarines at a distance of 8 km from the explosion.
          Good luck hi
          1. timokhin-aa
            2 October 2020 12: 27
            +1
            You are chatting with a famous internet freak
        2. Fizik M
          Fizik M 1 October 2020 17: 14
          -1
          Quote: Al_lexx
          Look carefully at the performance characteristics of the first version of "Shkval" and think about what will happen under water, at a distance of five to eight kilometers from an underwater nuclear explosion, and then broadcast all Wikipedia nonsense!

          YOU are talking nonsense
          and in real materiel and products (for the same 705) everything was calculated, and it was more than real and acceptable
        3. Operator
          Operator 2 October 2020 10: 49
          -2
          It all depends on the power of the special warhead: for 10 Ktn (single-stage nuclear charge weighing 40 kg) the safe distance in the water environment is ~ 1 km, for 250 ktn (three-stage nuclear charge weighing 130 kg) ~ 5 km.

          In principle, supercavitating torpedoes with different special warheads can be on board the submarine: 10 Ktn for firing at a distance of 1 km and 250 Ktn for firing at a distance of 5 km.
      3. Operator
        Operator 1 October 2020 21: 35
        0
        The point is not in noise, but in a cavitation bubble of air and water vapor, which blocks / distorts the passage of hydroacoustic signals from the target to the hydrophones of the torpedo.
        1. Fizik M
          Fizik M 2 October 2020 02: 23
          -1
          Quote: Operator
          in a cavitation bubble of air and water vapor, which blocks / distorts the passage of hydroacoustic signals from the target to the hydrophones of the torpedo


          oddly enough laughing For some reason, the developers of the LDS have much more brains than the lover of the duck ducks Dyusha Operator lol
          - and therefore acc. they put the antennas ON THE CAVITATOR, on direct and guaranteed contact with water
    2. Fizik M
      Fizik M 1 October 2020 17: 13
      0
      Quote: prodi
      But why can't it be made wire-controlled?

      "there are technical problems"
      BUT- tried bully
  11. Al_lexx
    Al_lexx 30 September 2020 17: 46
    -5
    I read and am amazed at the "awareness" of today's Blokhers.
    "Shkval" is a direct-shot missile-torpedo, or, in land parlance, a weapon of dagger fire. It has no competitors at short distances. It was created for short distances, and precisely against American submarines armed with torpedoes on wires. While their wired cable swims, the American will receive a couple of blows to the side with such a rocket stiletto and there will be no one to guide him over the wires. The essence of the “squall” is precisely that it is impossible to dodge it at the distance of its defeat. And at a long distance it is not needed a priori. Its entire meaning is lost, since the enemy gets at least some time for evasive maneuvers, jamming, launching counter torpedoes, and other defensive actions. On the far side, homing, relatively slow-moving torpedoes are just working.
    On account of the fact that the ballast scales in the torpedo tube are even funnier. The boat has at least six torpedo tubes. Even if two of them are busy with melee weapons, the four left behind are enough to complete almost any combat mission that requires torpedoes. And reloading now is not like during the Second World War, by the hands of torpedoists. Commercials can be said that the "Caliber" is ballast in the torpedo tube when it is necessary to shoot torpedoes. )))
    In short - the article lowers, sit down two.
    1. Sergey Pavlov
      Sergey Pavlov 30 September 2020 18: 14
      +6
      Smart guy, American submarines have an advantage in detection range + their submarines are banally quieter. They will be the first to detect our submarine in most cases and from a long distance from a convenient position they will launch remote-controlled torpedoes at moment X. They are not suckers and will not substitute and enter the Squall's affected area.
      1. Al_lexx
        Al_lexx 30 September 2020 19: 07
        -1
        Smart ass..

        I treat you well too. laughing

        There can be a lot of situations where opponents get close for short distances. But it seems useless to explain this to you. Anyway, put the interlocutor in a position where he "must" prove. that he is not a camel.
        1. timokhin-aa
          1 October 2020 13: 36
          0
          What do you know about underwater combat?
        2. Fizik M
          Fizik M 1 October 2020 17: 21
          +2
          Quote: Al_lexx
          There can be a lot of situations where opponents get close for short distances. But it seems useless to explain this to you.

          YOU are confusing the conditions of BATTLE and peacetime
      2. georg 2
        georg 2 4 October 2020 00: 39
        -1
        American submarines have an advantage in detection range + their submarines are banally quieter. They will be the first to find our submarine in most cases

        Then why in most cases and not all? And in what cases, under such conditions, our submarines will be the first to detect American submarines? In my opinion, comrade, you do not understand these matters.
        1. Fizik M
          Fizik M 5 October 2020 09: 18
          0
          Quote: georg 2
          In my opinion, comrade, you do not understand these matters.

          YOU don't understand either laughing
          in the near future will be flogging, incl. and by "Ritsa"
          angry
      3. Crimean partisan 1974
        Crimean partisan 1974 4 October 2020 07: 56
        -1
        Smart guy, American submarines have an advantage in detection range + their submarines are banally quieter. ..... do not charge this nonsense ..... the nuclear reactor on the submarine is always noisy. even in a plugged state, it requires cooling the outboard water pumps of which emit a certain signature different from the natural noise of the sea. this noise is perfectly caught by an extended towed antenna, besides, in the 80s, they began to equip the nuclear submarine with a toucan system that is capable of taking the thermal daily trail from the reactor of a surface or submarine ship ... evil tongues say that the toucan can also track the three-day wake but I don’t believe it.
        They are not suckers and will not be substituted and will not enter the Squall affected area.
        .... and now to practice at the expense of suckers ........ three high-profile stories ....... 1.
        1.Kitty Hawk headed the AUG and our nuclear submarine of project 671 was ripped through his belly ... so how did the AUG anti-submarine forces act in this way, which include, in addition to destroyers, anti-submarine aviation and a couple of submarines, such a stupid jamb allowed ???? that's about suckers just
        2 next Lokhovskoe .... a clash of two nuclear submarines Button Rouge such as Losangeles and Kostroma project 945 .... as a result, the button was written off and Kostroma is still in service. even not like your statement "They will be the first to discover our submarine"
        3 well, and the third remarkable indicator is the famous knight's move when three Soviet nuclear submarines of project 671 passed through the Bafin Sea and for a week monitored the actions of the AUG led by Avik America ... and again ... where were the very forces of PLO AUG ... ..in opera
        1. Fizik M
          Fizik M 4 October 2020 13: 21
          -2
          Quote: Crimean partisan 1974
          where were the very forces of PLO AUG ... in the opera

          fool
          in opera YOU
          about nonsense Monsieur Shevchenko, on VO it was enough said
          with FACTS

          Quote: Crimean partisan 1974
          2 next Lokhovskoe ... the collision of two nuclear submarines Button Rouge of the Losangeles and Kostroma type of project 945 ...

          YOU "modestly forgot" that At the same time, Baton Rouge SECRETLY TRACKED Kostroma
          Quote: Crimean partisan 1974
          Kitty Hawk headed the AUG and our nuclear submarine of Project 671 was ripped through his belly ... so how did the AUG anti-submarine forces operate in this way?

          our 671 was normally tracked, but since there was no war and it was in international waters, then the enemy's PLO was NOT USED on it
          IN THE WAR SHE WOULD BE DROWNED IMMEDIATELY


          Shl, listen, pratizanen lol Is your IQ really around zero, or are you just pretending?
          1. Crimean partisan 1974
            Crimean partisan 1974 4 October 2020 19: 46
            0
            YOU "modestly forgot" that Baton Rouge was SECRETLY TRACKING Kostroma ... so secretly the button that it went into oblivion
            our 671 was normally tracked, ..... if it was tracked normally, then this did not happen. here's another striped Losangeles really tracked when his caciques drove away from the then nuclear cruiser Kuibyshev ... so take off the snot from yourself
            1. Fizik M
              Fizik M 5 October 2020 09: 16
              -1
              Quote: Crimean partisan 1974
              if it was normally tracked then this would not happen

              fool
              want to say that the US Navy AVM "would take off into the air to avoid collision"? lol
              Quote: Crimean partisan 1974
              here's another striped Losangeles really tracked when his caciques drove away from the then nuclear cruiser Kuibyshev ... so take off the snot from yourself

              wassat
              oooh how everything is running lol
              Monsieur, YOU collect these "brain analyzes" in a jar, and to doctors, to doctors ...
              laughing
              1. Crimean partisan 1974
                Crimean partisan 1974 5 October 2020 19: 28
                -1
                do you want to say that the US Navy AVM "would take off into the air while avoiding a collision"? ....... well, if like a fan, then yes
                uuuu how everything is running ... put aside personal hostility ... come on facts
                1. Fizik M
                  Fizik M 5 October 2020 21: 16
                  -1
                  Quote: Crimean partisan 1974
                  come on facts

                  facts are actually given "a car and a small cart" (only by me on VO)
                  however, they are not of interest to YOU ​​- apparently YOU do not need them
                  for YOU need pills
                  lol
                  1. Crimean partisan 1974
                    Crimean partisan 1974 6 October 2020 08: 33
                    -1
                    facts are actually given "a carriage and a small cart" (only by me on VO) .... yes, you have no arguments, so a text mess .... so I gave you three cases. these are high-profile cases. but there were smaller ones, but a lot ... and instead of refuting my opinion, you slam into particulars ... it's worthless .... by the way about eykyu .. I'm not familiar with this ... but once in half a year passed the PFL tests, the work was such a risky one. Duc here the results were stable ... have you ever passed the PFL tests? ... so. without upholstered for the sake of interest I ask
                    1. Fizik M
                      Fizik M 6 October 2020 11: 03
                      -1
                      Quote: Crimean partisan 1974
                      yes, you don't have any arguments, so text mess ..

                      sorry, YOU missed the address
                      I am not Aibolit

                      PM
                      1. Crimean partisan 1974
                        Crimean partisan 1974 6 October 2020 19: 59
                        -1
                        sorry, YOU missed the address ... why, I also love nature ... and I advise you to contact PFL ... the pills won't help you ... along the way you need the very thing
          2. Nemchinov Vl
            Nemchinov Vl 9 October 2020 19: 56
            0
            Quote: Fizik M
            Quote: Crimean partisan 1974
            2 next Lokhovskoe ... the collision of two nuclear submarines Button Rouge of the Losangeles and Kostroma type of project 945 ...

            YOU "modestly forgot" that Baton Rouge was SECRETLY TRACKING Kostroma

            sorry, but how can you secretly track, so that you yourself cannot avoid a critical collision ? !! I wonder? !!
      4. shinobi
        shinobi 10 October 2020 06: 23
        0
        Well, what wonderful catchers of our boats they are, you can see it with the naked eye, especially when the whole order is not able to see the boat under its belly.
    2. psiho117
      psiho117 30 September 2020 18: 36
      -1
      Quote: Al_lexx
      "Shkval" - a direct-shot missile-torpedo or, in a land language, a weapon of dagger fire ... against American submarines armed with torpedoes on wires

      Is it okay that it was developed as a nuclear one, and for firing, mainly, at groups of surface ships?
      reloading now is not like during the Second World War, by the hands of torpedoists

      After all, the author explained that special torpedoes, at the request of the competent authorities, cannot be reloaded, they must be transported equipped in a TA.
      Even if two of them are busy with melee weapons, four left behind are enough to complete almost any combat mission
      Why, then, are there six TA on the boat? Precisely because it is so necessary, different torpedoes have different torpedoes for different cases. And you propose to return to the times of the Second World War, to the four TA.
      at "pistol" distances and from a conventional torpedo on wires, it is difficult to dodge
      1. Al_lexx
        Al_lexx 30 September 2020 19: 08
        -4
        Quote: psiho117
        Is it okay that it was developed as a nuclear one, and for firing, mainly, at groups of surface ships?

        Including, but not exclusively and only. Shooting special warheads at such distances under water is a rather strange task, if only you are not a kamikaze.

        Quote: psiho117
        The author explained ...

        The author did not explain a damn thing, except for his complete incompetence. lol
        Why, then, are there six TA on the boat?

        You inattentively read my post. Reread it again. wink
        1. Fizik M
          Fizik M 1 October 2020 17: 18
          -2
          Quote: Al_lexx
          The author did not explain a damn thing, except for his complete incompetence

          Nothing so undermines the patient lol
          here one cannot do with a fire extinguisher for the "sirloin" laughing
        2. Fizik M
          Fizik M 2 October 2020 02: 27
          -1
          Quote: Al_lexx
          Shooting special warheads at such distances under water is a rather strange task, if only you are not a kamikaze.


          VA-111 and its warhead were developed by more than qualified engineers wink
          so YOUR "couch opinion" wassat "very valuable" lol
          - for "diBANny ducks" tongue
    3. Fizik M
      Fizik M 1 October 2020 17: 17
      -1
      Quote: Al_lexx
      I read and am amazed at the "awareness" of today's Blokhers.
      "Shkval" is a direct-fired missile-torpedo, or, in land parlance, a weapon of dagger fire. It has no competitors at short distances. It was created for short distances, and precisely against American submarines armed with torpedoes on wires. While their wire swims, the American will receive a couple of punches in the side with such a rocket stiletto.

      monsieur tro-lo-lo, ask your owners for manuals smarter than YOUR "murziloks"
      Opponent WILL JUST NOT CLOSE TO THE RANGE OF APPLICATION OF OUR SPR (SHOOTING TORPEDS FROM MUCH LARGE DISTANCES
      PM
    4. Fizik M
      Fizik M 1 October 2020 17: 23
      -3
      Quote: Al_lexx
      four left behind are enough to complete almost any combat mission that requires torpedoes.

      DO NOT SHOOT SHOOT, IT HURTS
      YOU have no idea about the subject of the conversation from the word AT ALL
    5. Fizik M
      Fizik M 9 November 2020 21: 00
      0
      Quote: Al_lexx
      It has no competitors at short distances. It was created for short distances, and precisely against American submarines armed with torpedoes on wires. While their wire is sailing, the American will receive a couple of blows to the side with such a rocket stiletto and there will be no one to direct along the wires.

      1. Before you apply it you need to: UNDERSTAND, TAKE STARTING DEPTH + WAIT (because its preparation takes time)
      2. At the same time, TORPEDS ALREADY COME to our boat, and in most cases from distances much more than the maximum range of the "Shkval"
      Quote: Al_lexx
      four lagged behind is enough to complete almost any combat mission that requires torpedoes

      PLUR in TA are not needed? - already minus two TA
      there are two (out of 6) torpedoes
      at the same time, universal torpedoes are available only for 3rd generation
      Quote: Al_lexx
      In short - the article lowers, sit down two.

      in short - DO NOT BREAK SHOOT, IT HURTS
  12. yehat2
    yehat2 30 September 2020 17: 51
    +2
    it seems to me that a squall for narrow waters like the Persian Gulf or the Finnish or the English Channel is simply irreplaceable
  13. Gust
    Gust 30 September 2020 18: 32
    +3
    Quote: gridasov
    You yourself answered! ROCKET MOTORS MAKE THE TORPED UNCONTROLLED. Vane engines are generally not applicable for high speeds. Therefore, new principles of movement support and controlled maneuvering are needed. What no one has!

    Figasse! Gridasov writes himself instead of his bot !!!
    1. psiho117
      psiho117 1 October 2020 04: 53
      0
      Apparently the connection with the Astral was broken for some reason wassat
  14. sokrat5
    sokrat5 1 October 2020 14: 53
    0
    The "squall" "did not work" for Merkulov, but it did for the specialists of the Research Institute of Applied Hydromechanics, because the military halved the required torpedo range. Shkval always fired at this range. And initially it was designed for a nuclear charge.
    1. Fizik M
      Fizik M 1 October 2020 19: 15
      0
      Quote: sokrat5
      "Shkval" "did not work out" for Merkulov, but it did for the specialists of the Research Institute of Applied Hydromechanics,

      when Merkulov began to make Shkval, the Research Institute of PGM was not yet in the project
      Quote: sokrat5
      the military halved the required torpedo range

      it wasn't like that
      and the level of requirements was set not by the "military" but by the CM and the Central Committee of the CPSU
      and when the "military fornication" (UST-A torpedo (USET-80) instead of the one set by UST Resolution), there were criminal cases (specifically UST-A ZGK-V was taken out of Shein's office (the same one))
      Quote: sokrat5
      Shkval always fired at this range.

      nonsense
      see about handling issues
  15. K298rtm
    K298rtm 2 October 2020 10: 49
    +3
    1. Thanks to the author for the history of the creation of the squall (it's nice to remember my youth when I shot this product at Pikshuev, but there was no information on the history of the issue).
    2. Even then (in the distant 80s) the restrictions on D and h were clear (special respect to Maxim for avoiding specifying h).
    3. In general, the idea of ​​creating a weapon that can be delivered very quickly to the OVPC is relevant.
  16. shinobi
    shinobi 10 October 2020 06: 41
    0
    The only question is, have we changed the doctrine of naval warfare? We have rolled back to the tactics of the wolf dumps of the Second World War? Since when should our submarine suddenly have to climb at point-blank range? Moreover, my uncle (he served in the Northern Fleet) Told that initially the SHKVAL was developed for bottom active mines. The destroyer passes in front of a warrant or convoy, scatters them and leaves. The mine is triggered and there is no chance of dodging such a gift.
  17. Igor Rozhkov
    Igor Rozhkov 20 October 2020 14: 30
    +1
    The article is interesting, informative, and the title is good. The same could be said about the Wright brothers' plane! Effective but not effective! Who could have guessed what would come out of this bookcase in 50-100 years ???? It is unlikely that the creators of such an engineering breakthrough did not make a reserve for the future !! Such work is carried out under the heading "Secret". Let's see. what happens. The main thing is that the customer clearly sets the task and finances it.
  18. Igor Rozhkov
    Igor Rozhkov 1 November 2020 11: 36
    0
    The article is interesting. But at the dawn of aviation, one could also say about the plane of the Wright brothers - effective, but not effective !! Then there were SR-71, Tu-160, etc. Humanity is not standing still. They're figuring out how to manage the Flurry. I'm so kaaaatsa!
    1. Fizik M
      Fizik M 7 November 2020 19: 06
      +1
      Quote: Igor Rozhkov
      Figure out how to handle the Flurry.

      it has long been invented
      IMMEDIATELY, or rather, as soon as Uvarov proposed to "get rid" of the cable car
      problems in a completely different plane
  19. Molot1979
    Molot1979 28 November 2020 09: 08
    0
    Sorry, but who is the author? Does he have all the approvals and is he in the subject from the very beginning of the "Shkval" history? This I mean that there are a lot of experts on the topvar with the quaoification of sour cabbage professors, who constantly rip off the veils and hang the Terrible Truth. With tactful importance, that at least the admirals of the entire fleet or defense ministers And all of their words are as bad as possible, just the worst of the worst. Kilaye rotten tomatoes, but IMHO the main idea of ​​these authors - Katz offers to surrender.