IL-112V aircraft will reduce weight after removing "extra parts"

Removal of "minor structural elements" will help the Il-112V light military transport turboprop aircraft to reduce weight. The military customer believes that it turned out to be too heavy.

This edition writes "Army Standard".

Removal of minor metal elements, which can be easily dispensed with without compromising the strength of its structure, will help the aircraft "lose weight". It was decided to remove the metal covers that cover the propulsion unit and the fairings of the niche where the landing gear of the aircraft is placed. Unlike the fuselage and wings, these elements do not affect the strength of the aircraft.

Over the twenty years of the project's existence, work on the aircraft was stopped several times. According to the Russian military, the Ukrainian An-140 was more successful. Therefore, they even began to establish the production of these aircraft at an aircraft plant in Samara. But after the curtailment of military-technical cooperation between Moscow and Kiev in 2014, they had to abandon this venture and return to the stopped Il-112V project.

This aircraft is designed for 44 passengers or 5 tons of cargo. After commissioning, it will replace the An-24 and An-26, for which it is already time to retire, but which continue to remain in service, since there is still no worthy replacement.

Comments

[Asad]

Twenty years! Why is it taking so long? I'm not an expert at all, but what makes this model different from the ancient Douglas! Well that's outstanding is different?

[iouris]

Quote: ASAD

Twenty years! Why is it taking so long?

Russians harness for a long time ... And then they don't go anywhere.

[military_cat]

IL-112V aircraft will reduce weight after removing "extra parts"

It is very fortunate that the designers have provided extra parts on the plane that can be removed to make it easier.

[dauria]

Well that's outstanding is different?

It's a silly idea to make a wide fuselage like the C-27J Spartan, but with engines like the CASA C-295. It turned out to be heavy for these engines. Well, it happens, the first pancake and all that. Tea is not 1937.
This happens if the general, instead of "Fuck you, gentlemen, customers" says "What do you please, Your Excellency"

[hydrox]

Quote: dauria

It's a silly idea to make a wide fuselage like the C-27J Spartan, but with engines like the CASA C-295. It turned out to be heavy for these engines. Well, it happens, the first pancake and all that. Tea is not 1937.

A wide fuselage is a necessity, not a whim: now is not 37 years old to repeat the DC-3.
And at the pre-design stage, did you not have enough mind to calculate the power, speed, thrust, runs?
And for 20 years of design in the design bureau, not a single calculator with brains was started? And so that he could count not on Felix, but at least on a personal car, if they don't give him SUPER (and he doesn't know from which side to approach SUPER !!)
To design a propeller with straight blades in the 21st century is definitely the 30s !!
Here is the result for which the IW would put the brigade against the wall and do the right thing - it was no fucking pretending to be working if the plane barely lifts itself, but it also needs to do useful work

[Zaurbek]

The screws on the Tu95 are also new straight lines.

[NEOZ]

Quote: dauria

Tea is not 1937.

well, it's not exactly ... it feels closer to 1939 ...

[Protos]

Load capacity, speed, ceiling and ramp!

[Invoce]

Quote: ASAD

Twenty years! Why is it taking so long? I'm not an expert at all, but what makes this model different from the ancient Douglas! Well that's outstanding is different?

The plane turned out to be useless because of successful managers (Serdyukov (Deputy Chemezov for the aviation cluster of Rostec State Corporation), Rogozin Jr. (AK named after S.V. Ilyushin) managing the aviation industry) do not distinguish a turbojet engine from a jet ... Tu- 95 designed the Tupolev Design Bureau without the use of computers, in 1949 received a technical assignment, in 1951 the first copy took off! at the same time, engines were created for it !!!! In the case of the Il, General Designer of the Il-86 Novozhilov G.V. cried when Rogozin Jr. was appointed general director. The engineers, designers at the enterprise had the smallest salary in the aviation industry in the region of 35 thousand rubles. (for effective managers - at the world level from 15 thousand amerovsky rubles) and the highest staff turnover. The result is 20 years of torment, a waste of huge funds from the budget and a loud PUK at the exit ...

[Zaurbek]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RtoATzfj4SI

[Invoce]

This is a different plane and is made at a different plant and by a different team ...

[mmaxx]

The plane would not have been made for 20 years if they had not tried to appease the Ukrainian Antonov.

[Zaurbek]

This is the main mistake ... just like the main mistake is that the An140 was not localized and licensed in the Russian Federation

[Non liberoid Russian]

before throwing at the fan at least I found out when they started doing il112 and when Serdyukov and Rogozin came to Oak.

[Invoce]

Quote: Not a liberoid Russian

before throwing at the fan at least I found out when they started doing il112 and when Serdyukov and Rogozin came to Oak.

What are you talking about? Neither Serdyukov nor Rogozin have EVER led the UAC and were not on its staff !!!
I mean that the current system of appointing "effective" managers to leading positions, kids from dads from power, leads to the fact that airplanes are "made" for 20 years and cannot take off in the end

[Non liberoid Russian]

I love screamers. all of them are to blame except themselves. Well, what are the rules, you go to success, yelling hackneyed slogans from the manuals sitting in the kitchen, but as it comes to change something, you will come up with other chants. Such is how you are not able to manage something at all, even at home you give a voice from under your wife's skirt. live in some kind of fictional world, dream of the past

[Invoce]

Quote: Not a liberoid Russian

I love screamers. everyone is to blame for them, except for themselves. well, what are the rules, go to success, yelling hackneyed slogans from the manuals sitting in the kitchen, but as it touches to change something, come up with other chants. Such is how you are not able to lead something at all, even at home you give a voice from under your wife's skirt. live in some kind of fictional world, dream of the past

When there is nothing to say, we start talking about everything, just not the topic!
People like me (led the departments, they say successfully) created what you are now successfully squandering.

[Non liberoid Russian]

ahaha ... but here everyone in whom you do not point led, created, drew and led the masses to a brighter future in an alcoholic intoxication. storytellers.

[Invoce]

ahahaha ... you judge by yourself! Here, mainly those who served in the Army and understand the topic! With rare exceptions .. like you, for example

[NEOZ]

Quote: Invoce

G.V. Novozhilov cried when Rogozin Jr. was appointed general director.

cried that not you?

[Invoce]

Quote: NEOZ

Quote: Invoce

G.V. Novozhilov cried when Rogozin Jr. was appointed general director.

cried that not you?

and what is not you?

[lucul]

IL-112V aircraft will reduce weight after removing "extra parts"

When you pass a diploma, it is examined practically under a magnifying glass, up to the size of the indent from the edge of the page. And God forbid to make at least one mistake in the calculations ...
And here, the whole structure of the aircraft is a solid jamb. Purchased diplomas from developers?

[Saxahorse]

Quote: lucul

And here, the whole structure of the aircraft is a solid jamb. Purchased diplomas from developers?

By the way, it may well be! They wrote that they took the Il-76 fuselage as a basis. Essentially copied. And from here the problems flooded. Apparently, initially, the competition for the transport company was treated formally, they knew who would be appointed the "winner", and then suddenly such a somersault with Ukraine .. And all the then simplifications of the project suddenly surfaced.

[dranthqu]

Where does the information about the IL-76 come from?

[mmaxx]

Yes, well nafig. This cannot be, because it can never be.

[7,62x54]

Not only from the developers, but also from the "selection committee"

[beeper]

Quote: lucul

IL-112V aircraft will reduce weight after removing "extra parts"

When you pass a diploma, it is examined practically under a magnifying glass, up to the size of the indent from the edge of the page. And God forbid to make at least one mistake in the calculations ...
And here, the whole structure of the aircraft is a solid jamb. Purchased diplomas from developers?

You know that immediately after graduation, this is not yet a designer, and many of those who are listed as designers, even before retirement do not become such (but even in Soviet times, when "effective managers" were still called "byvoiced (from the expression "appointed by the call from above") "or" thieves ", such mediocrities contrived to become leading designers and even chief designers, alas, I had to collide more than once in my life - one of the deputies of the chief usually worked as a permanent party organizer of the OGK, and his beloved" the "chief's giver was usually listed in the trade union groups of the WGC, although not always, but usually such a" hierarchy of personnel policy "was in those enterprises where me and my classmates and familiar colleagues had to go on business trips and work even during the Soviet Union)!
And in order to competently design aircraft, which a priori have stringent requirements in all parameters and each gram of their own weight is more expensive than gold, it is necessary not only to thoroughly know your own and related areas of technology, but at the same time it is good (c, c) to visualize with your head, think systematically and combinatorial, after all, even the most modern computer, with its 3D graphics and the rudiments of AI, is only a tool to help a clever design head (how the computer was programmed and what was demanded of it, you will get nothing more)!
To avoid annoying "student mistakes", to develop your own "style" in the search for constructive solutions and layouts, you need a live transfer of experience and competencies - "school"!
So I understand from the "embarrassment" with the Il-112 that in the Ilyushin design bureau, because of the hungry Deriban "saints of the 90s", there was a failure with the "live transmission" of design experience, partly (or almost completely ?!) lost the "school", and the appointed chief designer turned out to be himself unable to make up for the loss of real specialists (this is like a "space-trampoline" journalist who, "from a great mind", boasted of the space salaries of incompetent "effective managers", orders of magnitude higher than the modest salaries of ordinary space designers and technologists, knowledge of those who create spacecraft ?! ) ??!

[K-36]

Talikov describes the problem of the IL-112 overweight like this. :
Work on the "extra" weight, a military transport, has been going on for over a year. As a basis for information about the improvements, I would like to take an interview with the chief designer of PJSC "IL" Nikolai Talikov, which he gave in April 2019. It is from this conversation that you can get a certain amount of information about what needs to be done, what has already been done and why mistakes were made. Despite the fact that after the release of the conversation with the designer, more than a year has passed, from the information I read about the reasons and ways of solving Ila's problems, this article is the most informative.

First, the chief designer clearly divides the development of the aircraft into two stages, from 2004 to 2014 and from 2014 to the present. It is in this division that the cause of the problems that Il has dragged behind him lies. In his words, there was already an overload in the documentation that was developed in the first period. And this problem was raised by the team of designers. But due to the fact that in 2010, the Ministry of Defense chased the Ukrainian Antonovs, the Il-112V project surfaced only in 2014. This is where the problems arose. The technical task has changed by 50% !!! Taking into account the fact that there was very little time to process the documentation, and most of the old staff went to Irkut. The issue with the extra tons of the aircraft faded into the background and surfaced even when it came to testing.

The description of the situation once again makes it clear that you cannot throw all the blame on the shoulders of the development team. They were put in a position from which to bend, not very easy.

Now let's move on to the changes. In an interview, Talikov mentioned that the list of improvements on the project is 135 positions, a solution to 113, already at that time, was selected.
Scheme of dimensions of the IL-112V cargo compartment Yandex Pictures
Scheme of dimensions of the IL-112V cargo compartment Yandex Pictures

How will the weight be reduced? The following improvements are known:

1. Replacement of secondary structures that do not affect strength, rearrangement, structures, introduction of composite materials. In particular, a transition from duralumin alloys to aluminum-lithium is promised. The widespread use of new materials will also be involved in secondary structures: handles, steering wheels, hatches. The ramp and doors of the cargo compartment, engine nacelles, landing gear fairings will be lightened.

2. Engineers have proposed a new mathematical model of the fairing of the wing and fuselage, which will make it possible to achieve higher smoothness and quality of surfaces, reducing the number of stitched surfaces. A special feature of the aircraft wing is that it is created as a one-piece structure and is attached to the fuselage from above using load-bearing elements.

3. Aircraft assemblies and systems are being finalized to reduce weight. All subcontractors are dealing with the issue. The engines, hydraulic systems, navigator equipment and his place, pipelines and landing gear supports have been improved.
Outwardly, in my opinion, it is very good! Yandex Pictures
Outwardly, in my opinion, it is very good! Yandex Pictures

According to various sources, this whole complex of measures will allow to close the extra 2,5 tons and save additional kilograms.

From all the above revised material, the conclusion suggests itself that no matter how difficult the path of the birth of the Il-112V was, it will end with an airplane lifted into the air and the unique experience of Il PJSC employees.

[lucul]

Talikov describes the IL-112 overweight problem like this:

Even at the dawn of aircraft construction, it was known that the large weight of the aircraft is leveled in two ways - a more powerful engine, an increase in the wing area, well, and a lightening of the EU design.
It was difficult initially to design a wing of a larger area, with a margin ??? After all, it is much easier to reduce the wing on a finished plane than to increase it. These are the banal basics of design, which are understandable even to a person "from the outside".

[yehat2]

one thing is not clear to me in this whole story - if the problem is due to the fact that the people left for Irkut,
then why - after all, it was those who left that laid the overload.
In my opinion, there is only one problem in the history of IL 112 - lowering current problems on the brakes.

[lucul]

You know that immediately after graduation, this is not yet a designer, and many of the designers who are listed, even before retirement do not become such

I know, a vivid example of this is the designer Gudkov, who created his own Gu-82 aircraft overweight by 1 ton, and which was suspended because of this ...

[Angelo Provolone]

Purchased diplomas from developers?

1. Did you see the prestige of the specialty when they entered? And who went there. And it’s no better now.
2. The number of teachers in universities is tied to the number of students. The ratio is 1:12.
That is, to expel a student is to shoot yourself in the foot.
Moreover, the number of graduates of "engineers" is not even considered.
Here's everything you need to know about the quality of education, and about the quality of the IL-112, in particular.

[Invoce]

Quote: lucul

IL-112V aircraft will reduce weight after removing "extra parts"

When you pass a diploma, it is examined practically under a magnifying glass, up to the size of the indent from the edge of the page. And God forbid to make at least one mistake in the calculations ...
And here, the whole structure of the aircraft is a solid jamb. Purchased diplomas from developers ?

The diplomas are real, that's only for the salary that was paid in the AK them. S.V. Ilyushin (30-35 tr.engineer of the 3rd category, 45 tr. Of the 1st category), either C grade students, chronic and received a diploma contrary to common sense and thanks to the paid education system, or those who were not taken anywhere from -for lack of experience, who received a diploma in order to be and who do not know where to go to work, etc.

[Zaurbek]

I also thought about it ...... add here that they do everything in electronic form and the designers have most of the data already at this stage ..... And that the plane is not a flying saucer, but quite an ordinary transporter made of ordinary materials .... and all its technical solutions have been flying for 20 years from competitors, on which it is possible to assess whether they are successful or not.

[NEOZ]

Quote: lucul

And here, the whole structure of the aircraft is a solid jamb. Purchased diplomas from developers?

do you think the USSR did not mow?

[Radical]

IL-112V aircraft will reduce weight after removing "extra parts"

Wings ??? !!!

[Alien From]

Yes, just imagine, the plane turned out to be heavier than air, but the developers did not know ... well, it's a mess !!!!!

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Radikal

Wings ??? !!!

Effective managers!

[Lelik76]

In the photo I see only one wing, maybe another one in the fuselage is lying like a ballast weight?

[Radical]

Quote: lucul

IL-112V aircraft will reduce weight after removing "extra parts"

When you pass a diploma, it is examined practically under a magnifying glass, up to the size of the indent from the edge of the page. And God forbid to make at least one mistake in the calculations ...
And here, the whole structure of the aircraft is a solid jamb. Purchased diplomas from developers?

It looks like everyone. The developers are poor students, and the heads of the aviation industry and the Ministry of Industry and Trade are sociologists, accountants, and lawyers!

[hagen]

Quote: Radikal

It looks like everyone. The developers are poor students, and the heads of the aviation industry and the Ministry of Industry and Trade are sociologists, accountants, and lawyers!

All aviation companies moved to VO !!!

[Arthur 85]

It is interesting if in the 30s someone said that a transport company had to be developed for 20 years, it would be: a) demoted to the rank and file; b) sent to a medical commission; c) would be fired without severance pay with a lifelong ban on holding positions above the janitor; h) Your option.

[Vadim237]

The Granite missile system has been developed for 15 years.

[210ox]

Nothing. It has been in service for a long time. And with this transport solid jambs. And when it will go into the series (and it is simply necessary) is unknown.

[dgonni]

Well, there the rocket itself was put on the wing somewhere in 5 years. And this despite the fact that she had to start from under the water! There, the linking of target designation and the onboard computer was still linked on TECH processors for a long time!
And here an ordinary transport aircraft of the classical azhrodynamic scheme cannot finish for 20 years!

[Dart2027]

Quote: Arthur 85

if in the 30s someone said that a transport company should be developed for 20 years

Then the technique was many times easier. Well, the fact that the work was suspended must also be taken into account.

[Jager]

This is an ordinary transport aircraft, not a stealth fighter based on the IL-76.

[Dart2027]

Quote: Jager

This is a regular transport, not a stealth fighter.

Nevertheless, it is an airplane.

[SSR]

Quote: Dart2027

Quote: Arthur 85

if in the 30s someone said that a transport company should be developed for 20 years

Then the technique was many times easier. Well, the fact that the work was suspended must also be taken into account.

In Russia, the modern production of cables, RVDshek, harnesses, microwave levels of the best and in some ways even better than world brands has just started. If now the "tourniquet" is as thick as a little finger, then earlier it was as thick as a thumb, the rvdshka weighed like a cast iron ingot, but now it is lighter, more elastic and stronger. Metal casings were also made not from a good life, since there were no normal composite and other technologies.
Just shouting so that we could not be wrong. What can I say that we are one of the first countries in the world to start producing kevlar threads, but only the Koreans put them on the stream and their thread costs ten times cheaper than domestic ones, and how many segments where ours did nothing at all? Even now they use GOSTs of the 80s, although the accuracy of many products in the same Europe, even according to their DIN, is better than our bearded GOST. And the designer is taken by the guest.

[Dart2027]

Quote from S.S.R.

What can I say that we are one of the first countries in the world to start producing kevlar threads, but only the Koreans put them on the stream and their thread costs ten times cheaper than domestic ones, and how many segments where ours did nothing at all?

Alas, it’s true. Russia inherited many problems from the USSR, where it seemed to make its own, but the quality was not always ... I remember how we looked at foreign computers when they first appeared.

[hydrox]

Quote from S.S.R.

And the designer is taken by the guest.

Constructors don't take anything!
They are obliged to work in accordance with GOSTs, and the designer must develop aircraft, and not recount GOSTs - there are other people for this.

[Lelik76]

"GOSTs to count - there are other people for this."
I wonder who these people are? Please name their position.

[hydrox]

You do not understand: in the Union, special institutes with hundreds of employees were engaged in this (see Chernogolovka)

[Lelik76]

I just work as a designer at an aircraft plant and very often (almost every day it happens) I read (usually partially) any GOSTs, OSTs and other regulatory documents. I guess that we have recalculate GOSTs archivists in the department of standardization. Maybe I don't understand why, but I know for sure about NIISU if that.

[mmaxx]

I saw both GOSTs and DINs. The difference is small. Bourgeois are simply more rational. Some of our GOSTs have been rewritten directly from DIN and ISO. Moreover, some old ones are better than new ones. But in fact, in terms of numbers, nothing has changed. GOSTs are being revised. But the OSTs ... Those are ancient.

[for]

Quote: Dart2027

Then the technique was much easier

What if modern people were given a drawing board and slide rule and the technologies they developed?

[Dart2027]

Quote: for

modern give a drawing board and slide rule and those technologies

As many. There were no computers then, but there were many more people.

[stalki]

It is interesting if in the 30s someone said that a transport company had to be developed for 20 years, it would be: a) demoted to the rank and file; b) sent to a medical commission; c) would be fired without severance pay with a lifelong ban on holding positions above the janitor; h) Your option.

In my opinion, there is only one option, against the wall.

[Nikolay Ivanov_5]

If you rush about all the time in the desire to either build or abandon, then you can be in such a situation for another 50 years.

[hagen]

Quote: Arthur 85

It is interesting if in the 30s someone said that a transport company had to be developed for 20 years, it would be: a) demoted to the rank and file;

If modern requirements for strength and safety had been in force in 1961, Gagarin would never have flown into space (Leonov)
If today the country's security system depended on the Il-112, then it would have been in series for a long time and would have been produced as the Il-2. The long development of the project was predetermined by the political position of the country's leadership and, accordingly, the Ministry of Defense as the main customer, towards integration with Ukraine. My option would be as it is. Subject to firm convictions about the need to integrate with .... And this is not an aviation or engineering business.

[210ox]

Yes, the security system depends. We risk staying with the ancient ANs. Any piece of hardware has a resource.

[hagen]

Quote: 210ox

We risk staying with the ancient Ans

We, or rather our leadership, tried for a very long time to tie Ukraine to Russia with economic and technological ties. Sometimes to the detriment of their own development. Even today we buy MTZ not because we cannot do it ourselves, but for reasons of some kind of "distribution of labor" with a friendly state. Who would have thought in 2000-2010 that the Banderaites would come to power there?

[Rzzz]

Quote: Hagen

Even today we buy MTZ not because we cannot do it ourselves,

Actually, we can't. In Russia, all tractor plants that produced comparable equipment were closed due to lack of competitiveness.

[hagen]

Quote: rzzz

In Russia, all tractor plants that produced comparable equipment were closed due to lack of competitiveness.

If there was political will, it would be no worse, at least. In the same Barnaul. But it was necessary to give a niche market to the neighbors ...

[_Sergei_]

Not in Barnaul, but in Rubtsovsk

[Rzzz]

Quote: Hagen

There would be political will

It's not about political will. Why do we have most of the equipment - not "Belarus", but JCB? Is it because the Queen of England has such a political will, or is it just that the company makes the world's best equipment of this class?

[hagen]

Quote: rzzz

Why do we have most of the equipment - not "Belarus", but JCB?

Exactly because having a VAZ in the country, many people drive a Mersey. It all depends on the wealth of funds. Good technique and worth "good". But MTZ is several times cheaper. It has always been and will be so. After all, someone has to make a tractor for a poor farmer who can't afford JCB.

[hydrox]

You speak the truth!
But this is because in the leadership there is not even a ma-a-a-a-a-lazy Stalin who would sit in the subcortex!
There is only one Belousov and one Borisov for the whole of Russia - it is clear that for this business it is necessary to have a Prospect with the Cabinet of Ministers from the Belousovs, and not a crowd of liber-soplezhuev

[210ox]

Who would have thought? Yes, already in the mid-90s it was clear. This is the very quality of our politics and diplomacy. And this applies not only to relations with Ukraine.

[hagen]

Quote: 210ox

This is the very quality of our politics and diplomacy. And this applies not only to relations with Ukraine.

Politics and diplomacy will always match the level of the economy. And this level is not very ... And for a long time.

[beeper]

Quote: Arthur 85

It is interesting if in the 30s someone said that a transport company had to be developed for 20 years, it would be: a) demoted to the rank and file; b) sent to a medical commission; c) would be fired without severance pay with a lifelong ban on holding positions above the janitor; h) Your option.

Inspired by your comment

At a meeting on the aviation industry with Comrade Stalin.
Stalin to aircraft designer Yakovlev: -Comrade Yakovlev, our pilots need a new high-speed fighter! We have consulted and give you a year of term for its development and production of a flight copy!
Yakovlev: Comrade Stalin, but the Americans spend three years on this, no less!
Stalin: - Comrade Yakovlev, are you really an Amerykanets ??! ....

[Pereira]

I read about one chief designer of the 30s.
He also took a good model and stupidly counted all the sizes upwards. His plane took off. But I could not rise above 50 meters. So he was later seen as a superintendent of elevators.

[Arthur 85]

Well, here are the laws of a square and a cube (area / volume, it's weight ... and I understand it all.) which, in a normally organized economy a) should not be; b) they should not fly anywhere, and their wise thoughts about lowering the base rates should be written in Sportloto ... With all that, combat aircraft cost some horse money. And here we need to figure out: why are they worth so much money? And if they really stand like that, then isn't it worth giving them up completely and building a hundred IL-2 for the same money?

[t-12]

combat aircraft cost some horse money. And here we need to figure out: why are they worth so much money?

Because combat aircraft are produced Small in series. If you order a thousand of the same type of aircraft, the same Il-112V, the unit price will drop sharply.

[Arthur 85]

And by the way, too: don't we need 1000 combat aircraft? In our territory? I would rather say that thousands are not enough: amers only have 500 in air wings.

[Simargl]

Quote: Arthur 85

I wonder if in the 30s someone said that a transport company should be developed for 20 years

If someone said that out of 20 years 10 - practically without funding, if only someone said what salaries the designers have ...

[hydrox]

Do not forget that in the 30s Stalin personally supervised aircraft construction, and now no one has such a function in Prospect - they have been thrown out as unnecessary for a country ruled by liber thieves.

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Arthur 85

It is interesting if in the 30s someone said that a transport company had to be developed for 20 years, it would be: a) demoted to the rank and file; b) sent to a medical commission; c) would be fired without severance pay with a lifelong ban on holding positions above the janitor; h) Your option.

h) - We would buy a license abroad and redesign the structure for domestic industry.

[Zaurbek]

There were two projects:
1. An140 ...
2. Assembly plant Bombardier ..
and both ended in nothing. At least instead of An140 money should have been given to Il114.

[Simargl]

Quote: Zaurbek

At least instead of An140 money should have been given to Il114.

They tried to make friends and tie. And I had to keep the documentation at home.

[Zaurbek]

There was one designer of recoilless guns ...

[NEOZ]

Quote: Arthur 85

Your option.

a clever sofa clerk would definitely be placed against the wall ...

[senima56]

Yes, we have been waiting for the second flight for a long time! It's time, it's time guys!

[Observer2014]

IL-112V aircraft will reduce weight after removing "extra parts"

Well, Rogozin Jr. seems to have been thrown out, but he should fly as needed and ordered in the mines of defense. eventually.

[The leader of the Redskins]

That is, Rogozin Jr. was that "extra detail"? Well, then you need to make it easier and easier!

[NEOZ]

Quote: Leader of the Redskins

Well, then you need to make it easier and easier!

to make it easier ...

[nov_tech.vrn]

where is the younger Rogozin? they speak well about him, but the Taganrog "team" caused considerable damage, by the way, the conversion of the AN-140 into a ramp one has already been discussed more than once, and the "military" who leaned towards the AN-140 could only be from the retinue of the field furniture.

[Observer2014]

Quote: nov_tech.vrn

where is the younger Rogozin? they speak well about him, but the Taganrog "team" caused considerable damage, by the way, the conversion of the AN-140 into a ramp one has already been discussed more than once, and the "military" who leaned towards the AN-140 could only be from the retinue of the field furniture.

Yes, all because it is nonsense to build this rattletrap for so much money and years. Give me so much money personally, I will arrange for you from ideas to specific aircraft models. But this wildness with these kickbacks and sunsets just kills.

[NEOZ]

Quote: Observer2014

Give me so much money personally, I will arrange for you from ideas to specific aircraft models.

everyone says like that.......
choose me and you will have European salaries and pensions ...
swim know!

[Avior]

They wrote that the weight of a dry aircraft is 2 tons more than the task.
Do they want to casing 2 tons to clean?

[vfwfr]

Well .. Alexeev Rostislav Alekseevich also tried to push metal for ships, and not planes when building EKRANOPLAN ... Repeating history? Only this time, instead of aviation metal, they planted an automobile one ..)

[nov_tech.vrn]

Well, no need to cling to the words of an amateur, most likely they will simply put something lightweight there, to make it easier, they pulled a little from everywhere, a couple of hundred kilograms from the engines, the hydraulics were redone, etc.

[Avior]

How could they take the weight off the engines? Have they been remade? Or filed a file? Doubtful, to be honest.

[bars1]

Gnobili IL-112 for political reasons. In the production of military equipment, you need to rely on your own strength, and not on the so-called. "fraternal countries" inhabited by the so-called "fraternal peoples"

[Pavel57]

Disassemble and reassemble. Extra details will remain.

[Jager]

Can you use composites instead of metal?

[NEOZ]

Quote: Jager

composites instead of metal in any way?

expensive
and does not keep hitting bullets ... sort of ... but it's not accurate ...

[Xenofont]

Everything resembles a "bearded" Soviet anecdote about fenders falling off when testing a new car, when the old techie Mitrich advised to drill holes along the break lines, based on the everyday practice of using a toilet, which never breaks along perforations.

[Reserve buildbat]

"It was decided to remove the metal shrouds that cover the propulsion unit and the fairings of the niche where the landing gear of the aircraft is placed."
What is it like? now will there be unweighted engines and chassis without fairings? So then it is necessary to remove the glass in the cockpit)))

[Radical]

Quote: Hagen

Quote: Radikal

It looks like everyone. The developers are poor students, and the heads of the aviation industry and the Ministry of Industry and Trade are sociologists, accountants, and lawyers!

All aviation companies moved to VO !!!

Unfortunately, they "moved" to another world, and their place was taken by mediocrity and trolls. Including - on "VO".

[Radical]

Quote: Vadim237

The Granite missile system has been developed for 15 years.

That's right - just you want to compare the technology of the 60s and 70s with modern ones?

[Simargl]

Quote: Radikal

do you want to compare the technologies of the 60-70s with modern ones?

Do you want to compare the complexity and quality of financing with the IL-112?

[Maxwrx]

In the TK, the carrying capacity is 5 tons, in fact, there were 3 tons. Max. takeoff weight: 21 tons. How can you make a mistake by 2 tons (10% of the maximum speed) and make a flight plane I do not understand. Any removal of "minor" parts will not significantly improve the situation; the aircraft needs to be redesigned again. Or agree to 3,5t which will squeeze out of it

[donavi49]

So, and the meaning. Uncooled engines and chassis will play back their weight on the deterioration of performance characteristics. Well, 2 tons cannot be found on this. There are also light panels. Another option is to throw out the chassis retraction mechanism - here you can really win back well. The drives are heavy. Main and backup system. Throw out all this - so a ton will definitely be free.

Here, either the entire plane can be counted or the engines are more powerful to find.

[7,62x54]

Fairings and casings must not constrain the structure of the aircraft. There are frames for this. I'm not a designer, but the "fairing" seems to be supposed to influence aerodynamics for the better. And the casing also has an aerodynamic shape.
Removing this construct will increase resistance and fuel consumption. At the very least, it is possible that something will worsen.

[Simargl]

Quote: 7,62x54

Removing this construct will increase resistance and fuel consumption.

They probably did not finish, or it was not understood correctly: they will remove the "cast-iron" fairings, put plastic ones.

[Eug]

Will 112 replace both 24th and 26th? But what about the 114th? And the 140th, as it were, is not at all a transport worker .. somehow everything was mixed up with the author. And in terms of timing, you cannot compare the development, when the customer is above his heart and there are no problems with financing the work, and when funds are allocated per hour by a teaspoon and it is not known at what stage it will stop.

[Vadim237]

We still have IL 276 on the way.

[Zaurbek]

114 will replace the An-24, and the 114th will replace the An-26 and An-32 ...... The Il-276 should be in the An-12 GP.

[Eug]

112 will not replace the An-32, there is a completely different thrust-weight ratio .. and so - 112 instead of An-26, 114 - instead of An-24 and An-140, Il-276 or Tu-330 to replace An-12.

[slipped]

In principle, the car turned out. And the design flaws will be corrected.

You can, again, recall the experience with the first An-24, according to the results of state tests, which revealed more than 360 different comments.

Among them, the poor climb rate of the car in takeoff mode with one engine, insufficient range at full load, as well as the low efficiency of air conditioning and anti-icing system. Moreover, there many problems were not discovered immediately and were eliminated already on production machines.

[donavi49]

Well, here the main problem is much deeper. In fact, the developer rolled out the plane with 3 tons of load instead of 5 on assignment. And it's quite difficult to fix it:
- new engines are more powerful, which would expand the tolerances by 2 tons, the fastest. But they are not.
- relief. But again, removing 2 tons of panels is unlikely. This is 1/5 of an empty plane for a minute.
- redesign of the most overweight or unsuccessful nodes. The most effective, but it takes another 4-5 years in the Russian industry.

[slipped]

Quote: donavi49

Well, here the main problem is much deeper. In fact, the developer rolled out the plane with 3 tons of load instead of 5 on assignment.
And it's quite difficult to fix it:

Correct. And fast enough. All necessary tests are carried out. Flights will begin soon.

[Vadim237]

The wings and elements of the fuselage will be replaced with composites - thus the excess mass will be removed.

[Radical]

Quote: Vadim237

The Granite missile system has been developed for 15 years.

For the information of the haters of the USSR - the An-26 aircraft went from its first flight to the beginning of operation in 4 years! 1969 - 1973. Questions ???

[slipped]

Quote: Radikal

the An-26 aircraft has gone from the first flight to the beginning of operation in 4 years! 1969 - 1973.

Before him there was, by that time flying for 10 years, An-24. Which bugs were caught. And not everyone was caught - for example, my head of the flying club, previously being a navigator on the An-24, recalled that when flying to Mirny, it was necessary to carefully monitor the operation of the anti-icing system, since the ideal wing profile, when ice was frozen on it, could quickly lead to the fall of the plane and there were such accidents.

[Simargl]

Quote: Radikal

For the information of the haters of the USSR - the An-26 aircraft went from its first flight to the beginning of operation in 4 years! 1969 - 1973. Questions ???

Was the ramp cut out for 4 years? Tin !!!!

[Zaurbek]

as a partial justification, I will write that such indicators as efficiency, resource, cost of maintenance were not so important then ..... and the Il-114 will compete with serial Canadian or Brazilian or European aircraft ..... from private airlines.

[Ax Matt]

Wangyu: The toilet was also removed. On the Il-76 it has just begun to be installed at a price of 300 tr / unit. Or maybe you should install normal engines after all? Otherwise they will soon fly without a fuselage "... on parole and on one wing ..." idiocy...!!!

[slipped]

Quote: Ax Matt

Or maybe you should install normal engines after all?

The engines are normal there. Here he is handsome on the LIS.

[Zaurbek]

They reported that the resource and power and efficiency were confirmed.
TV7-117ST is the base engine for the power plant of a light military transport aircraft Il-112V. The engine works in conjunction with the propeller AB112. Civil modification of the motor - TV7-117ST-01 - will become the standard engine of the regional passenger aircraft Il-114-300.

The main task of the next tests as part of the IL-76LL flying laboratory was to check the operability of the AB112 propeller of a standard design, as well as other components. In addition, during ground races and flights, the operation of the engine in the constructive person of TV7-117ST-01 for the Il-114-300 aircraft, the functioning of new control system units, as well as the verification of the software and mathematical support of automatic control systems (ACS) were checked. In the third stage, nine test flights and fourteen ground races were performed.

The TV7-117ST engine incorporates modern design solutions. Power at maximum take-off mode is 3100 hp, at high emergency mode - 3600 hp. The AB112 propeller has increased performance and increased thrust.

[slipped]

Quote: Zaurbek

The civilian modification of the engine - TV7-117ST-01 - will become the standard engine of the Il-114-300 regional passenger aircraft.

[Radical]

Quote: slipped

Quote: Radikal

the An-26 aircraft has gone from the first flight to the beginning of operation in 4 years! 1969 - 1973.

Before him there was, by that time flying for 10 years, An-24. Which bugs were caught. And not everyone was caught - for example, my head of the flying club, previously being a navigator on the An-24, recalled that when flying to Mirny, it was necessary to carefully monitor the operation of the anti-icing system, since the ideal wing profile, when ice was frozen on it, could quickly lead to the fall of the plane and there were such accidents.

Yeah - for the An-24, the period from the start of development to the start of operation is also 4 years. What are you talking about to me now? Is it not clear that the USSR set a task, and it was carried out in the shortest possible time, while creating aircraft for tens of years of operation! Do you want to justify someone in the fact that the development and start of operation of weapons, including aviation equipment in the Russian Federation, take periods of time comparable to a third, or even half the life of Russian citizens?

[slipped]

Quote: Radikal

Yeah - for the An-24, the period from the start of development to the start of operation is also 4 years. What are you talking about to me now?

I mean that now it is not the USSR, but the plane will be finalized. Oh well. Tests carried out in a transonic wind tunnel at modes close to cruising flight - from 600 to 800 kilometers per hour, showed that the planned changes will not affect the strength characteristics of the airframe.

[Radical]

Quote: slipped

Quote: Radikal

Yeah - for the An-24, the period from the start of development to the start of operation is also 4 years. What are you talking about to me now?

I mean that now it is not the USSR, but the plane will be finalized. Oh well. Tests carried out in a transonic wind tunnel at modes close to cruising flight - from 600 to 800 kilometers per hour, showed that the planned changes will not affect the strength characteristics of the airframe.

Funny. We somehow realized a long time ago that now it is not the USSR, therefore, we have been testing ships, submarines, and airplanes for decades, but we are not launching into series production, or we are launching all sorts of crap like Karakart! The word "razmovlyaete" - did I understand correctly that you are a citizen of Ukraine?

[hydrox]

The skakuas have accumulated a huge experience in the management of the aircraft industry and today they are at the most advanced positions and even Airbus envies them for the speed of conquering the aircraft market with new products!

[slipped]

Quote: Radikal

Funny. We somehow realized a long time ago that now it is not the USSR, therefore, we have been testing ships, submarines, and airplanes for decades, but we are not launching into series production, or we are launching all sorts of crap like Karakart!

I doubt it if you cry. And ships, submarines with aircraft after testing always go into series.

Quote: Radikal

The word "razmovlyaete" - did I understand correctly that you are a citizen of Ukraine?

No, most likely you are from there.

[Radical]

Quote: Vadim237

We still have IL 276 on the way.

We believe - you seem to have a lot more on the way .... In the form of models, cartoons, or samples for parades!
You at least provide the Russian Armed Forces with T-90 tanks in sufficient quantities, otherwise the number supplied to foreign armies, and are in service with us, hurts the eyes!

[Protos]

Quote: Dart2027

Quote from S.S.R.

What can I say that we are one of the first countries in the world to start producing kevlar threads, but only the Koreans put them on the stream and their thread costs ten times cheaper than domestic ones, and how many segments where ours did nothing at all?

Alas, it’s true. Russia inherited many problems from the USSR, where it seemed to make its own, but the quality was not always ... I remember how we looked at foreign computers when they first appeared.

And how did you look ?!
I am without envy, because I then already collected my "Radio RK86" and connected it to the color "Shilyalis", "Mayak-231" and "Yatrani"
And all this for an increased degree and shabashki

[Simargl]

Quote: Protos

I am without envy, because I then already collected my "Radio RK86" and connected it to the color "Shilyalis", "Mayak-231" and "Yatrani"

Well, yes, I do! After all, R-86RK is almost the same as from IBM with the i386 processor.
Was the R-86RK loaded from the tape recorder?

[Radical]

Quote: ASAD

Twenty years! Why is it taking so long? I'm not an expert at all, but what makes this model different from the ancient Douglas! Well that's outstanding is different?

I, like many comrades here remember that in our time there were no cartoons, exhibition - public - television "modeling" was not. And they did not show it on TV, and there was no need, because there was no need to convince the citizens, to hum that today ... a boat, or a tugboat, which would then be towed along the Northern Sea Route, was launched. It's just that the country, with the strain of all human and production forces, worked for defense in all directions, and this was not public, but there was a result, the country received weapons. All those developments (sorry for the tautology) are supposedly "developed and have no analogues" they were, to one degree or another, readiness created in the USSR, and the one that says from the screen that it was created initially in the Russian Federation ... that's understandable , all the time wants to prove that he has progress, and before him ... galoshes.
For me, his position is clear - he is our "Pashinyan". Someone can accept the position - "at attention", and ... put a hand, or show a finger .... However - this is a personal matter ...

[Radical]

Quote: Simargl

Quote: Radikal

do you want to compare the technologies of the 60-70s with modern ones?

Do you want to compare the complexity and quality of financing with the IL-112?

I don’t want to compare this - you’re probably comparing the incomparable, and the history of the development of our aviation suggests that the financing and management of the Aviation Industry of the Soviet Union cannot be compared with what is happening in the aviation industry of the Russian Federation. Anything else to tell you?

[Goldmitro]

Over the twenty years of the project's existence, work on the aircraft was stopped several times. According to the Russian military, the Ukrainian An-140 was more successful.

We are reaping the fruits of the USE introduction! This is precisely what the West sought through the pro-Western reformers of Russian education. He does not need creators and creators in Russia! As German Gref said, consumers are needed! It is clear that the consumers of his products are adherents of Western values!

[Vadim237]

This aircraft has been developed since 2000, which Unified State Exam - MS 21 did and there are no problems with excess weight and nothing else, just like the Superjet - just in Ilyushin, the designers have always been and will be.

[mmaxx]

The Superjet is also overweight.

[yehat2]

Quote: Invoce

Quote: lucul

IL-112V aircraft will reduce weight after removing "extra parts"

When you pass a diploma, it is examined practically under a magnifying glass, up to the size of the indent from the edge of the page. And God forbid to make at least one mistake in the calculations ...
And here, the whole structure of the aircraft is a solid jamb. Purchased diplomas from developers ?

The diplomas are real, that's only for the salary that was paid in the AK them. S.V. Ilyushin (30-35 tr.engineer of the 3rd category, 45 tr. Of the 1st category), either C grade students, chronic and received a diploma contrary to common sense and thanks to the paid education system, or those who were not taken anywhere from -for lack of experience, who received a diploma in order to be and who do not know where to go to work, etc.

in my opinion, here the people at the helm behaved irresponsibly
read how Yakovlev took out his soul from his design bureau in improving the Yak-1, for comparison.

[Lelik76]

Quote: Avior

They wrote that the weight of a dry aircraft is 2 tons more than the task.
Do they want to casing 2 tons to clean?

Do you seriously believe this silly news that the landing gear nacelle fairings will be removed?
In this case, the chassis can be made non-retractable; a bunch of hydraulic cylinders, pipelines, and units serving them will also be removed.

[Goldmitro]

Quote: Vadim237

This aircraft has been developed since 2000, which is the USE ...

The breakdown of the education system began in the 90s and continued with the introduction of the USE in 2000. These graduates are working today, deciding, incl. problems in the aircraft industry.