Military Review

Russia resolved the issue of import substitution in the production of the medium-haul MS-21

100
Russia resolved the issue of import substitution in the production of the medium-haul MS-21

The Russian medium-range aircraft MC-21 in the process of development and production has repeatedly encountered problems from foreign suppliers. In addition to refusing to supply composite materials for the wing, some countries refused to supply a number of small components and assemblies for its Russian PD-14 engine, but these problems have been resolved. This was reported by "Interfax" with reference to an informed source.


Difficulties were not only in terms of composites, our partners also refused to supply a number of units and small parts for the PD-14 engine

- said the source, adding that in such conditions, enterprises had to deal with import substitution and solve these problems.

As reported last year, US sanctions blocked the supply of composite materials for the aircraft wing from the US and Japan. UAC promised to solve this problem by launching, together with Rostec, its own production of the necessary materials. At present, this issue has been resolved, the Federal Air Transport Agency is starting to certify the MS-21 using Russian polymer composite materials in the main elements of the airframe.

Last week, Russian President Vladimir Putin called the refusal of Western companies to supply composite materials for MS-21 "rudeness". According to him, the plane does not belong to the defense sphere, and all the obstacles are evidence of unfair competition.

(...) for reasons of unfair competition, our partners have stopped supplying the corresponding composite materials for the wing. Well, what is it? Well, this is just rudeness in the world market in violation of all generally accepted principles and rules. They know what we will do anyway. Well, just so that our aircraft builders come out later with this product. And by this time they expect to occupy these niches and markets

- Putin said.

Let us recall that the serial production of the Russian PD-14 engines began at the end of March this year.
Photos used:
UAC
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  1. halpat
    halpat 29 September 2020 11: 04
    31
    And thank God that they did.
    I am glad.
    1. St Petrov
      St Petrov 29 September 2020 11: 19
      25
      Glory to the design school, straight-handed workers, the will of the country's leadership and the allocated funds, which went in the right direction - I think, thanks to the work of the competent authorities,

      PD has been put into production since March. It's simple drinks

      PS The project was not even prevented by the nagging of the opposition on the VO website and sprinkling ashes on the head, as with the Superjet, in principle

      But as they were whining before the launch of the aircraft engines, they will whine afterwards. It's funny.
      As they were whining before the Aerospace Forces bought more than half a thousand new aircraft, and after they whine, closing their eyes to such events - bye, you think, a torn economy buys hundreds of fighters, thousands of tanks, and even pays the capital.

      PS Have you seen these seething shit when the officers received 12 rubles each and when the teachers were not paid salaries for half a year? This is our opposition.
      1. Simon schempp
        Simon schempp 29 September 2020 11: 28
        -13 qualifying.
        the project was not even prevented by the whining of the opposition on the VO website and sprinkling ashes on the head, as with the Superjet, in principle

        Didn't interfere with what? MC-XXI tomorrow will wet Boeings and airbuses? Or at least Russian airlines will not out of hand, but of their own free will show interest in it?
        Well, superjet, yes. This is power.
        1. St Petrov
          St Petrov 29 September 2020 11: 30
          10
          MC-XXI tomorrow will wet Boeings and airbuses?

          of course it will be. This is not a Boeing 737 MAX.

          Well, superjet, yes. This is power.


          there are no competitors, here you are right. More precisely, they exist, but several billion dollars more have been invested in their program, but there is no exhaust from the word - at all. The Japanese counterpart, like the Chinese, was not mastered - against the background of 200+ superjets. Although the funds were mastered - the KLA never dreamed of

          Therefore, "power" is the right word for this glorious project. And the MC-21 will be even more satisfying - and its niche will be livelier
          1. Ross xnumx
            Ross xnumx 29 September 2020 11: 55
            12
            Russia resolved the issue of import substitution in the production of the medium-haul MS-21

            If this happened, if it did not take place at the expense of quality, the Russians will only be glad. We still have pride in high-quality domestic products. High flight! fellow
            1. Bad_gr
              Bad_gr 30 September 2020 00: 38
              +2
              Quote: ROSS 42
              If this happened, if it did not take place at the expense of quality, the Russians will only be glad.

              It would not hurt us to answer in a similar way.
              For example, we supply titanium aircraft parts to both Europeans and Americans. It's time to close this shop. Perhaps we will lose money, but not a fact: they will find a supplier of titanium products, but more expensive, which means their planes will become more expensive, and against this background ours will become more competitive.
              1. Alexey Sommer
                Alexey Sommer 30 September 2020 06: 27
                11
                Quote: Bad_gr
                For example, we supply titanium aircraft parts to both Europeans and Americans.

                Do not forget at the same time that we produce titanium and parts from it too, and replacing it with our own, or another consumer right away, in fact, will not work for a long time in such volumes. And for titanium and parts made from it, today workers in factories receive wages and feed their families.
                Here's a situevina. hi
                1. El13
                  El13 30 September 2020 15: 04
                  +3
                  Well, plus, if they spit at you, then don't give a damn in response - not our method ... you have to kick it in the face, but this is a different level ...
                  1. military_cat
                    military_cat 1 October 2020 06: 44
                    -2
                    Last week, Russian President Vladimir Putin called the refusal of Western companies to supply composite materials for MS-21 "rudeness".
                    It is very strange at first to say from all the irons "what will they do to us ?!" and then wonder what they must do, do something. In a childish way. I’ve already decided that international law is a fiction, and there is only the right of the strong - fight, and don’t complain that it’s necessary, international law no longer applies to you.
                2. Icarus
                  Icarus 1 October 2020 17: 02
                  0
                  Do not forget at the same time that we produce titanium and parts from it too, and replacing it with our own, or another consumer right away, in fact, will not work for a long time in such volumes. And for titanium and parts made from it, today workers in factories receive wages and feed their families.

                  By introducing sanctions, the state, in this case, must purchase titanium products from manufacturers (VASO, etc.) at their current price in the volume of existing orders, the pole still, for example, 50% from above - as compensation for lost profits. But for this you need to think strategically and for the benefit of your enterprises. And the state will find application for these products later or will let them be melted down.
                  1. Alexey Sommer
                    Alexey Sommer 2 October 2020 06: 07
                    -1
                    Quote: Icarus
                    And the state will find application for these products later on or will let them be melted down.

                    These are not nuts! These are unique products. Where to put the landing gear strut made for Boeing, or Airbus, or a part of the airframe for these aircraft? And for factories, these are not single orders. These are multi-year contracts.
                    And its production of aircraft will not soon be able to compensate for the needs for such products, even approximately in such volumes as we are now producing for our "partners". And let's leave the partners, they will quickly start doing it themselves. And that's all ..
                    Their GDP has grown, while ours has fallen. Who did win?
                    1. Icarus
                      Icarus 2 October 2020 12: 23
                      +1
                      I don't think that a lot of products have accumulated in the factories 'warehouses, a maximum of 2-4 months' order. So the state will not be burdensome to buy them (products) even at a double price. Moreover, the Airbuses can not be touched, only the Boeing will roll over the supplies. MC-21 will soon go into production. Nobody says it will be painless initially. But it must be borne in mind that own production of titanium products will cost partners, firstly, a significant increase in cost, and therefore a decrease in competitiveness in relation to our own MS-21, the sales of which will increase as a result (even if only in our country), which will lead in the long term, to the growth of our GDP, and secondly, for some period of time the "partners" will be left without products at all, because "quickly" they will not fill their needs, and titanium in blanks will not have to be sold to them. This will make them wonder whether to impose any sanctions in the future. You can't always think only about momentary gains or losses. It is necessary to strike back if there is a chance of adverse and painful consequences for the "partners" in a larger or the same amount than ours (and sometimes allow minor damage to oneself, but with the prospect of winning back in the future), otherwise they will become insolent IMHO.
              2. Sergey Nikiforov
                Sergey Nikiforov 30 September 2020 16: 14
                0
                Not the fact that it is more expensive
              3. ROMANO
                ROMANO 30 September 2020 17: 43
                0
                Quote: Bad_gr
                We supply titanium aircraft parts to both Europeans and Americans. It's time to close this shop.


                To spite grandmother to freeze ears? 60% of titanium products are sent to the West. We will lose the market, the company will lose its reputation, people will lose their jobs ... Western corporations, in addition to the minimum time required to reorient purchases, will not lose anything!
                1. Bad_gr
                  Bad_gr 30 September 2020 19: 17
                  +2
                  Quote: ROMANO
                  To spite grandmother to freeze ears?

                  And when they constantly wipe their feet about you, knowing what to hit in the face you won't give, since it's not profitable for you? and hence the opinion about you is appropriate.
        2. Hagen
          Hagen 29 September 2020 12: 14
          +8
          Quote: Simon Schempp
          Well, superjet, yes. This is power.

          I flew on it. A passenger. Quite decent conditions ... There is a problem, as they say, with the MRO system. And the car is "flying".
        3. V
          V 29 September 2020 14: 28
          -3
          Quote: Simon Schempp
          Boeings and airbuses will be wet tomorrow

          If you answer symmetrically, then you can stop delivering titanium products from the Salda plant to Boeing and Airbus. Then he will not just "wet", but will remain almost the only alternative.
          1. Rzzz
            Rzzz 29 September 2020 23: 43
            +3
            Quote: Vortex
            it is possible to stop deliveries of titanium products from the Salda plant to Boeing and Airbus.

            And to kill the company for which these supplies give most of the profit, and, by the way, in foreign currency?
            And Boeing won't even notice. There are enough suppliers in the world. As soon as it becomes known about this refusal - in five minutes in the Boeing office the phones "take, take from us!"
            1. Ross xnumx
              Ross xnumx 30 September 2020 04: 24
              +1
              Quote: rzzz
              And to kill the company for which these supplies give most of the profit, and, by the way, in foreign currency?

              Yes, yes, yes ... It was Boeing and Airbus who "killed" the backbone of our industry ... wassat Directly shot on takeoff.
              Tell us why we have such a profit, which has nothing to do with the development of industry. And also tell us about the wages fund of the enterprise in terms of its distribution by categories of workers ... belay
              From you, leavened patriots, it starts to jar. It is necessary to bring the country to a collapse and at the same time continue to whine about the need to sell Russian “good” in exchange for American “nothing” ... With inadequate trading partners, you need to do the same and not complain about the unloaded Russian industry.
            2. V
              V 30 September 2020 14: 01
              +2
              Quote: rzzz
              phones in Boeing office will go off in five minutes

              Titanium alloy technologies are not as widespread in the world as you might think. Why, then, do they buy blades for jet turbines from us, including China, and not buy them in China from their titanium plant? Why are submarines made of titanium alloys only with us? If you cut off supplies for Boeing and Airbus, then almost all of their civil aviation complex will stop. And this is not a secret for anyone. And our enterprise will not be killed - they will begin to make products for their aircraft, supporting their aviation industry, and not potential enemies.
      2. The comment was deleted.
      3. Roman1970_1
        Roman1970_1 30 September 2020 06: 05
        0
        the project was not even prevented by the whining of the opposition on the VO website and sprinkling ashes on the head, as with the Superjet, in principle

        And how could nagging at VO interfere?
        How could urapatriotism help?
        1. Kart
          Kart 30 September 2020 09: 21
          +4
          The site is read by different people. Maybe among them there are those who assemble planes, or spaceships.
          The more whiners and skakuas there are, the more unpleasant these people are with such an assessment of their work.
          And vice versa - the more people grateful to them - the better.
          This is such a war.
          All these fighters against the regime, all sham and rot against the patriots of their country.
          After all, patriotism, as you know, is not at all love for the motherland, when everything is fine.
          This is love for the homeland in all cases, no matter what.
          1. Barmal
            Barmal 30 September 2020 10: 20
            +3
            A very competent assessment of the availability of platforms for expressing opinions.
    2. NEXUS
      NEXUS 29 September 2020 14: 01
      +7
      Quote: Halpat
      And thank God that they did.
      I am glad.

      And most importantly, the production of these "missing" and import-substituted components should expand and develop.
    3. Roman1970_1
      Roman1970_1 30 September 2020 06: 10
      -4
      What's the point? Who will buy them?
      Well, Aeroflot will be forced to buy and that's it
  2. Livonetc
    Livonetc 29 September 2020 11: 04
    33
    International "cooperation" at the current stage of development of international relations is an extremely risky undertaking.
    Now a new concentration of production and technologies begins within its own borders.
    The global trend is unfortunately.
    Russia has no other way.
    The era of globalization ends ...
    Luckily.
    1. Simon schempp
      Simon schempp 29 September 2020 11: 36
      -15 qualifying.
      International "cooperation" at the current stage of development of international relations is an extremely risky undertaking.

      Lol. Tell that to AvtoVAZ, which survived only thanks to international cooperation.
      1. Livonetc
        Livonetc 29 September 2020 11: 59
        11
        Semyon and I didn't switch to you.
        With all due respect.
        With AvtoVAZ, my conversation will not stick together.
        There is no such person.
        Do not pretend that you do not understand in what respect there is a refusal of international cooperation.
        For you personally.
        The rejection of international cooperation is taking place in spheres that are vital for the state.
        The reason is not Russia.
        It is in unscrupulous competition and vile politics of the countries of the Anglo-Saxon "axis".
        Russia itself will continue to form its own zones of interests and international relations.
        Those who wish to dictate their policy to the whole world will follow the well-known vector.
      2. tralmaster
        tralmaster 29 September 2020 19: 28
        +6
        Do not worry when a threat to competition is involved and AvtoVAZ is sanctioned.
    2. krops777
      krops777 29 September 2020 12: 41
      +8
      Now a new concentration of production and technologies begins within its own borders.


      This is the restoration of what was fucked up during the collapse of the USSR and it pleases.
  3. Sidor Amenpodestovich
    Sidor Amenpodestovich 29 September 2020 11: 05
    28
    In the world market, the concepts of "rudeness" and "unfair competition" do not exist, because the world market consists of these concepts.
    1. Piramidon
      Piramidon 29 September 2020 11: 24
      +7
      Quote: Sydor Amenpospestovich
      In the world market, the concepts of "rudeness" and "unfair competition" do not exist, because the world market consists of these concepts.

      When we got involved in the WTO, we thought - Well, now we will be surrounded only by bona fide competitors. Yeah, right now!
      1. Alexey RA
        Alexey RA 29 September 2020 11: 52
        +3
        Quote: Piramidon
        When we got involved in the WTO, we thought - Well, now we will be surrounded only by bona fide competitors. Yeah, right now!

        Everything you need to know about the WTO, "fair competition" and "international law":
        We will have to do something about the WTO, as it allows China to get away with it

        For the first time, we started winning arguments because they know that I am not happy with the WTO. We've never won before. All decisions were against us. They said, "Forget about the Americans, they are stupid. Don't worry, make decisions against them." But now we are winning cases, because now they are afraid that I will do something serious with them - and we have every right to do so..
        © Trump
        1. Hagen
          Hagen 29 September 2020 12: 19
          -3
          Quote: Alexey RA
          Everything you need to know about the WTO

          It is hardly worth welcoming the return of the world to the relations of the Lower Paleolithic period. Trump is also a passing entity. The United States will not be able to fight the whole world for a long time. I don't know when, but it must end. The world cannot live long without trust and sane rules.
        2. The eye of the crying
          The eye of the crying 30 September 2020 01: 38
          -3
          Quote: Alexey RA
          © Trump


          It's funny (or sad?) That someone else is taking him seriously.
          1. Kart
            Kart 30 September 2020 09: 30
            0
            He is for a minute the president of one of the greatest countries in the world, an empire, if you will.
            And of course he says not just what he wants, but on behalf of.
            Greatest in terms of territory.
            1. The eye of the crying
              The eye of the crying 30 September 2020 10: 27
              -2
              Quote: Carte
              He is for a minute the president of one of the greatest countries in the world, an empire, if you will.


              His position, of course, must be taken seriously. But he is an incompetent clown /
      2. askort154
        askort154 29 September 2020 11: 54
        +2
        Piramidon When we got involved in the WTO, we thought - Well, now we will be surrounded only by bona fide competitors. Yeah, right now!

        I remember that Medvedev beat himself on the chest for a long time - "this is my merit."
    2. Senka naughty
      Senka naughty 29 September 2020 11: 48
      +2
      Even as it exists, if they did not exist, sabotage of production would be a common phenomenon in the world and a huge problem. These sanctions are nothing more than sabotage.
    3. chingachguc
      chingachguc 2 October 2020 17: 24
      -1
      Some rudeness is an opportunity to get new technologies, new competencies. New industries. We need to work, not steal.
  4. Uncle lee
    Uncle lee 29 September 2020 11: 07
    +2
    all obstacles are evidence of unfair competition.
    These are sanctions and sanctions again! "Partners" rushed, broke their legs, help us build the MS-21 ...
  5. g1washntwn
    g1washntwn 29 September 2020 11: 10
    +5
    The West and the "gentlemen" never knew how to play by the rules and are not going to. The sun is from the East, the water is wet, "the Englishwoman shits."
    1. andranick
      andranick 29 September 2020 13: 24
      +4
      Quote: g1washntwn
      The West and the "gentlemen" never knew how to play by the rules and are not going to

      I will never agree. They always play by the rules. By their rules. And if the gentlemen do not like the rules, they change them and play according to the already updated ones, but still their rules
  6. Siberian 66
    Siberian 66 29 September 2020 11: 13
    -1
    Small parts ... I think, if they want to, they will neutralize the largest part on ready-made aircraft from the satellite, the engine is called. And they will find a reason, and prepare the public, and show us a fig. As with the compressors of "Gazprom". So you have to rely only on yourself. But so far PD-14 will not take off in any way .. And then there will be further refinement, certification, production ... EhEh.
  7. Incvizitor
    Incvizitor 29 September 2020 11: 18
    +1
    First, he negotiates supplies with pigs, then calls their behavior rudeness laughing
  8. yehat2
    yehat2 29 September 2020 11: 20
    +4
    The main problem of the MS-21 is not materials or import substitution, but the lack of its promotion into operation. How many aircraft have Aeroflot or S7 ordered? zero? Well, even if local airlines are not using it, what is the future of the aircraft in the presence of fierce competition?
    it seems that Irkut agreed to buy, but it's still written with a pitchfork on the water
    Although the plane seems to have turned out and even better than the broiler.
    In addition, I don't even hear the beginning of the development of service, and without it the plane will die.
    All these boastful reports that the plane is cheaper, etc. etc. go against the background of ignorance by the main companies of this machine and the operation of Boeing and Airbus. Meanwhile, it is necessary to promote the plane and the plans of airlines, at least local ones, much more persistently, so that it becomes massively exploited.
    1. Siberian 66
      Siberian 66 29 September 2020 11: 25
      +6
      How many aircraft have Aeroflot or S7 ordered? zero?
      So, about 170 aircraft have been ordered, most of Aeroflot, and most of Aeroflot's orders are with amerovsky engines.
      1. yehat2
        yehat2 29 September 2020 11: 58
        -2
        170 ordered by Irkut, Aeroflot - zero. I found such data.
        And if we consider that Irkut is controlled by Chemezov, then so far, in general, we are not talking about third-party orders
        1. Lelik76
          Lelik76 29 September 2020 13: 34
          +5
          I work at a plant in Irkutsk where we make the MC-21, I don’t understand why we should make 170 aircraft ourselves? No, I understand that they can create some other branch and he will buy (for example, with government money) and lease these cars, let's say to Aeroflot, but whatever one may say, it will be Aeroflot. And we at the IAP do not care at all according to what scheme these machines will be bought / sold, the work will be (respectively, the salary) for us and all other suppliers throughout the country.
          1. Alf
            Alf 29 September 2020 17: 15
            +1
            Quote: Lelik76
            I don’t understand why we should make our own 170 aircraft?

            Don't you need so much?
            1. Lelik76
              Lelik76 30 September 2020 13: 44
              +1
              I meant Irkut (meaning the plant where I work, including over Masyanya). There was a post that Irkut ordered, not Aeroflot.
              1. Alf
                Alf 30 September 2020 13: 46
                0
                Quote: Lelik76
                I meant Irkut (meaning the plant where I work, including over Masyanya). There was a post that Irkut ordered, not Aeroflot.

                Does Irkut only need a plane?
                1. Lelik76
                  Lelik76 30 September 2020 14: 39
                  +1
                  We probably just don't understand each other. Irkut now has 5 prototype aircraft, which are being tested and will be carried out for a long time while this type is in serial operation. But the airlines will probably need them, especially if they are forced to take them, for example, by introducing high duties on imported aircraft. We have already gone through this with right-handed cars from Japan (of course, this is not an entirely correct comparison, but this is the first thing that came to mind)
      2. Alf
        Alf 29 September 2020 17: 14
        -1
        Quote: Sibiryak 66
        and most of the Aeroflot order with amerovsky engines.

        Import substituted?
    2. EnGenius
      EnGenius 29 September 2020 12: 04
      +3
      Basically, B737 and A320 are not bought, but are leased. Therefore, the main customers in Russia for MS-21 are leasing companies. And for export, most likely, planes will be delivered on lease.
      1. yehat2
        yehat2 29 September 2020 14: 02
        +3
        Yes, and for export, most likely, aircraft will be delivered on lease.

        how do you imagine it?
        China is promoting the same plane to itself, in Europe-America MS-21 will simply not be allowed anywhere
        others will be threatened that the US will be offended if they buy.
        There remain a few rogue countries that will "buy" only on credit. For example, Belarus or North Korea
        I see an opportunity for export only after a serious volume has been done at our home with proven advantages. With the collapse of the USSR, it became difficult to sell abroad and the entry into the WTO changed absolutely nothing.
        1. Alf
          Alf 30 September 2020 13: 33
          -1
          Quote: yehat2
          and joining the WTO has changed absolutely nothing.

          Why didn't it? It has even changed a lot. The founding countries created the WTO in such a way that they received the main share in the WTO, and all the newcomers received only extra slingshots. Mr. Mordashov at first tore his vests FOR, and then officially admitted that Russia's membership in the WTO brought our business only unnecessary problems, but not increased profits.
          1. yehat2
            yehat2 30 September 2020 13: 40
            0
            it was not about profit, but about diversification of production and product matrix.
            if allowed to trade freely, a lot of overhead will go away and it will be possible to focus only on what works best. And also it will be possible not to conduct trade wars. For example, Switzerland makes chocolates, watches and jars and does not, for example, make ships and does not produce oil under water. That was the idea. But in the end, the Russian Federation received absolutely nothing. For example, we were banned from selling a number of goods in the United States and continued to ban the supply of highly technological goods such as aircraft engines.
            1. Alf
              Alf 30 September 2020 13: 44
              -1
              Quote: yehat2
              RF received absolutely nothing.

              As required.
              Quote: yehat2
              and product matrices.
              if allowed to trade freely, a lot of overhead will go away and it will be possible to focus only on what works best.

              This is clearly seen on the example of the MS-21. We talked about the worldwide division of labor, but as it came to the point, they immediately yelled-Not to supply spare parts is rudeness.
    3. keeper03
      keeper03 1 October 2020 17: 09
      +1
      When was a network of airports throughout the union, well-established production and service - the bourgeoisie told us that your engines are crappy, they eat a lot and make a lot of noise! Do you dare? !! what Now we have no network of airfields, no planes, no service !!! No. So maybe it is already necessary to start somewhere, and not shift ... from an empty piece?!? belay If we can't build a new plane, we can start assembling again good old Tu and Eli ?! Or is there not enough tyama too ?! am
  9. Daniil Konovalenko
    Daniil Konovalenko 29 September 2020 11: 23
    +3
    Russian President Vladimir Putin called "rudeness" the refusal of Western companies to supply composite materials for the MS-21.
    This is not rudeness, this is a partnership. smile
  10. zwlad
    zwlad 29 September 2020 11: 26
    +9
    And by this time they expect to occupy these niches and markets

    Well, it means to prohibit our airlines (at least with state participation) to purchase imported aircraft. Well, or hint to Western partners that this will be the case. I think they will sober up quickly.
    But in general, of course, you have to do your own thing. And fly on your own. The USSR somehow managed to build civil aviation without Western "partners".
    1. Daniil Konovalenko
      Daniil Konovalenko 29 September 2020 11: 37
      +2
      Well, it means to prohibit our airlines (at least with state participation) to purchase imported aircraft.
      You can prohibit it, but only Russian planes in a ruler are not in stock ... Alas ..
    2. Blackmokona
      Blackmokona 29 September 2020 11: 39
      -3
      Then they will forbid everyone to buy ours. And the markets will simply diverge. And since in the domestic market we will establish a monopoly without the right to access foreign ones. Then the manufacturer will relax the rolls and begin to supply any UG for three prices with the words where will you go dear
      1. zwlad
        zwlad 29 September 2020 11: 46
        +2
        And who buys ours? And what are ours?
    3. Jacket in stock
      Jacket in stock 29 September 2020 13: 01
      +1
      In response they will forbid ours to fly in their air. And that's all.
      However, they already did it.
      It's just that we are with them in different weight categories. We'll have to play by their rules, no matter how we puff.
  11. moreman78
    moreman78 29 September 2020 11: 39
    -2
    (...) for reasons of unfair competition, our partners have stopped supplying the corresponding composite materials for the wing. Well, what is it? Well, this is just rudeness in the world market in violation of all generally accepted principles and rules. They know what we will do anyway. Well, just so that our aircraft builders come out later with this product. And by this time they expect to occupy these niches and markets

    Aha ha, did you want the market, capitalism, integrate into the West, etc.? THEN EAT HEALTH WITH BIG SPOONS!
  12. Abrosimov Sergey Olegovich
    Abrosimov Sergey Olegovich 29 September 2020 12: 37
    +9
    Quote: BlackMokona
    Then they will forbid everyone to buy ours. And the markets will simply diverge. And since in the domestic market we will establish a monopoly without the right to access foreign ones. Then the manufacturer will relax the rolls and begin to supply any UG for three prices with the words where will you go dear

    You can prohibit in different ways. it is possible - in a stupid order, or it can be "thinner", for example, loans to allocate for the purchase or to stimulate the purchase of domestic cars with taxes or to present additional technical requirements for foreign cars ... again, adopt a law that an airline with state participation should have in its fleet of at least 75% of domestic aircraft, that if an airline (it does not matter whether private or public) has at least X% of domestic aircraft, it will be compensated for the costs of ... you can think of a lot if you set a goal of course ...
    1. Reviews
      Reviews 29 September 2020 14: 31
      +2
      Quote: Sergey Olegovich Abrosimov
      an airline with state participation must have at least 75% of domestic aircraft in its fleet

      The EU of the "first convocation" did approximately the same with the Airbus-300 / -310. First of all, through Lufthansa and ErFranz. But Airbus provided excellent after-sales. What our top rams still can't handle. As well as sognobili sujet, so will the MS-21. There are no miracles.
  13. Jacket in stock
    Jacket in stock 29 September 2020 13: 08
    +3
    What do I see?!
    On the 7th year after "import substitution".
    When I was an engineer at a research institute 30 years ago, my topic died because the main contractor remained in Kiev.
    And now it turns out that even "small parts" for engines cannot be made by themselves.
    Miracles.
    1. St Petrov
      St Petrov 29 September 2020 13: 21
      -5
      And now it turns out that even "small parts" for engines cannot be made by themselves.

      just write - I'm not able to ...
      And it's not worth signing for the country

      1. Jacket in stock
        Jacket in stock 29 September 2020 13: 39
        +5
        Quote: s-t Petrov
        And it's not worth signing for the country

        Yes, how can we really.
        Although, I remember a year, this is how it was in 2014, the director of that research institute on TV proudly told how he was friends with suppliers from the states, that they send us such cool microcircuits, that we make such wonderful missiles from them ...
        At the same time, in that research institute they built a whole new building of 10 floors specifically to make microcircuits there. But now there are bureaucrats from the next "Goskomchegotot" sitting there.
  14. iouris
    iouris 29 September 2020 13: 27
    -4
    The Russian Federation will never get rid of import substitution.
  15. Region-25.rus
    Region-25.rus 29 September 2020 13: 49
    +2
    According to him, the plane does not belong to the defense sphere, and all the obstacles are evidence of unfair competition.
    oh yes really! "I thought you were like that. And you are what!"
  16. Captain Pushkin
    Captain Pushkin 29 September 2020 14: 13
    0
    Quote: Simon Schempp
    International "cooperation" at the current stage of development of international relations is an extremely risky undertaking.

    Lol. Tell that to AvtoVAZ, which survived only thanks to international cooperation.

    Could you clarify what kind of cooperation it was that saved AVTOVAZ?
    1. Alf
      Alf 30 September 2020 23: 03
      0
      Quote: Captain Pushkin
      Quote: Simon Schempp
      International "cooperation" at the current stage of development of international relations is an extremely risky undertaking.

      Lol. Tell that to AvtoVAZ, which survived only thanks to international cooperation.

      Could you clarify what kind of cooperation it was that saved AVTOVAZ?

      And this is his sale, 67% of AvtoVAZ belongs to Renault-Nissan.
  17. Abrosimov Sergey Olegovich
    Abrosimov Sergey Olegovich 29 September 2020 15: 08
    +3
    Quote: Avis
    The EU of the "first convocation" did approximately the same with the Airbus-300 / -310. First of all, through Lufthansa and ErFranz. But Airbus provided excellent after-sales. What our top rams still can't handle. As well as sognobili sujet, so will the MS-21. There are no miracles.


    Yes, there are no miracles. However, there is direct sabotage and what under Joseph Vissarionovich was called HARMFUL.
    I think if our responsible officials do not establish after-sales support (maintenance, repair, etc.) of aircraft, this will mean exactly sabotage. do not like the word sabotage, can be replaced with a different wording: deliberate and malicious infliction by an official or a group of persons of material damage to the interests of the Russian Federation and companies with the participation of the Russian Federation by action or inaction, or deliberate and malicious actions in the interests of foreign states and companies, entailing material harm to the interests RF ...
  18. Hort
    Hort 29 September 2020 15: 15
    0
    For reasons of unfair competition, our partners have stopped supplying the corresponding composite materials for the wing. Well, what is it? Well, this is just rudeness in the world market in violation of all generally recognized principles and rules. They know what we will do anyway. Well, just so that our aircraft builders come out later with this product. And by this time they expect to occupy these niches and markets
    but as if he did not know. that they can do so. Circus with horses.
    At the same time, I will assume that titanium for their Boeing airbuses has been sold, and we continue, we are honest ... Well, or business interests are above political
  19. 23424636
    23424636 29 September 2020 19: 21
    0
    Before his steep peak, Dima managed to buy 74 medium-haul Airbus and Boeing from Western partners for delivery in 2020-2023. A real patriot of badminton.
  20. Aleksandr Strukov
    Aleksandr Strukov 29 September 2020 19: 23
    0
    Yeah .. . With SP-2, Russia had a bummer. Although it was clear to a fool that this project would be under pressure and in every possible way interfere with its implementation. Or have they already forgotten about the Druzhba gas pipeline in Soviet times, when they also put sticks in the wheels? And also, it turns out, a bummer with the MS-21. Didn't you think that the corrupt West would not interfere? Has Putin fallen from the moon? But Russia is afraid to take retaliatory steps: it regularly supplies the United States with rocket engines, titanium for Boeing, and many more materials for Western industry. Well, of course, otherwise they will think badly about Russia.
  21. _Ugene_
    _Ugene_ 29 September 2020 21: 53
    0
    Well, what is it? Well, this is just rudeness in the world market in violation of all generally recognized principles and rules.
    they can afford such rudeness because they know that we have absolutely nothing to answer
  22. bzbo
    bzbo 29 September 2020 23: 41
    0
    Partners should start pissing when they shit ...
  23. loaln
    loaln 30 September 2020 08: 36
    +1
    "Well, what is it? Well, this is just rudeness in the world market in violation of all generally accepted principles and rules."

    Don't be a hypocrite!
    This is your usual favorite CAPITALISM.
    The strong takes away from the weak and still laughs, not having time to give the weakling in the ass.
  24. GRANATE-19
    GRANATE-19 30 September 2020 10: 27
    0
    If the wings are made of domestic carbon fiber, can we also make fins for spearfishing from our native ones in RUSSIA?
  25. Glagol1
    Glagol1 30 September 2020 11: 18
    +1
    The author is not in the subject. In addition to composites and engine parts, the MS-21 avionics from the hell itself is American. There is nothing to notice it, because when choosing suppliers At one time they preferred them. And in general it is clear why, Amer-I avionics is very good. But if Washington is banned from it, certification will fail. And that will be a delay of years.
    1. reader65
      reader65 30 September 2020 14: 57
      0
      30.09.2020
      The Ministry of Industry and Trade announced the disruption of the supply of components for Russian aircraft

      Foreign suppliers of components for Russian aviation at the same time refused to cooperate with Russia, said Vasily Shpak, director of the radio-electronic industry department of the Ministry of Industry and Trade.

      “Our foreign partners, who supply ready-made systems for our aircraft, someone publicly, someone secretly, informed our aircraft manufacturers that they will not continue relations with our aircraft manufacturers either under existing contracts or under new contracts,” said Mr. Shpak "RIA News".
      1. reader65
        reader65 30 September 2020 15: 12
        0
        So INTERFAX is lying. There is no import substitution in avionics.
      2. unaha
        unaha 1 October 2020 12: 03
        +2
        You found someone to listen to ...:
        "Vasily Shpak, director of the radio-electronic industry department of the Ministry of Industry and Trade of Russia, told reporters that foreign-made irons with built-in wiretaps were found in Russia.
        "There are bookmarks. We saw a couple of irons with microphones. An ordinary iron. With a microphone. Accordingly, in order to throw something somewhere from this microphone, you need some (communication method. - Ed. Note)", - Shpak said . ".
        1. reader65
          reader65 1 October 2020 15: 04
          0
          Well, as if an official, and not as an unnamed informed source in the article.
    2. AML
      AML 1 October 2020 09: 42
      0
      Bourgeois avionics and spare parts are being played for several reasons.
      1 in order to quickly pass certification in the future
      2 if you make a plant for every crap, then you will receive the product for a much longer period.

      And "American avionics is very good" is already somewhere in the end.
  26. PVL176
    PVL176 30 September 2020 11: 36
    +1
    The situation with the MC-21 is somewhat reminiscent of the epic with the SP-2. As soon as the business approaches completion and huge funds and efforts have been spent, the "partners" put a spoke in the wheel, and if we consider that the localization in the new liner has not even reached 70%, then there are still many opportunities to slow down this project for many years. The Superjet was the bait that was swallowed, now the game is going on for big, such a tidbit of the market cannot be taken without a fight.
  27. mmaxx
    mmaxx 30 September 2020 16: 40
    +1
    If I were Putin, I would not blame everything on unfair competition. And I would ask the people who made the decision about the MS-21 wing made from Japanese raw materials. Who made this decision? Let these people be responsible for the money spent at least in vain. Everything was done under a state contract.
  28. Sedoy
    Sedoy 30 September 2020 20: 51
    +1
    offended, poor fellow ... :)
    this is the market, my friend, the same liberal ...
    here is the FAQ ... :)
  29. storm
    storm 1 October 2020 02: 19
    +1
    Putin should not whine and complain, but simply impose an embargo on the purchase of airbuses and Boeings from these very partners ...
    1. keeper03
      keeper03 1 October 2020 17: 15
      0
      This will be the right decision !!! good Fuck sending them with their foreign cars and develop their aircraft industry !!! yes soldier Although this should have been done 25 years ago, and better 30! request
  30. Maks1995
    Maks1995 1 October 2020 09: 24
    0
    Ha. A new feature is coming. Unfair competition.
    When factories for Airbus, Boeing and the Japanese do not want to supply their materials to direct rivals from Russia and China.

    But when Russia supplies Ukraine, including aluminum and titanium, this is good, correct competition. "We need to be happy," said VVP.
  31. Captain Pushkin
    Captain Pushkin 1 October 2020 15: 12
    0
    Quote: Alf
    Quote: Captain Pushkin
    Quote: Simon Schempp
    International "cooperation" at the current stage of development of international relations is an extremely risky undertaking.

    Lol. Tell that to AvtoVAZ, which survived only thanks to international cooperation.

    Could you clarify what kind of cooperation it was that saved AVTOVAZ?

    And this is his sale, 67% of AvtoVAZ belongs to Renault-Nissan.

    This is the murder of AvtoVAZ as a full-cycle car manufacturer and its transformation into an assembly plant. Plus the murder in the Russian Federation of the production of automotive components (components that "dummies" usually call "spare parts").
  32. yfast
    yfast 3 October 2020 09: 19
    0
    Quote: ROMANO
    Western corporations, in addition to the minimum time required to reorient purchases, will not lose anything!

    For some reason, they continue to buy, but is it so easy to give birth to a titanium plant in the west? Probably, they buy to their detriment. Of course, I am also against the destruction of the titanium enterprise for the sake of a momentary joy of a couple of dozen stupid under-patriots, "to the core, and then." At least in the future, titanium products can be ordered from them, and our enterprises should not support sanctions against our own enterprises.
  33. rocket757
    rocket757 4 October 2020 08: 56
    0
    Everything would be fine, but to say that there are "partners" in the west is already ..... stupid.
  34. Diviz
    Diviz 6 October 2020 09: 06
    0
    You need to collect 800 pieces. This is only MS 21. It is clear that the license is issued by the West to permit international flights. But we can also fly on new planes at home. Boeings and aerobass return back.
    The demand for travel abroad will decrease.