Military Review

The death of the general, the insolvency of the Osa air defense system and other moments: the second day of the fighting in Karabakh in the reports of the sides

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The active phase of the conflict in Karabakh continues. According to reports coming from both sides of the confrontation, the Armenian and Azerbaijani troops mutually suffer heavy losses during the fierce battles. However, earlier, manipulations with statistics were noted more than once, in connection with which it would be more correct to rely on evidence coming from Yerevan and Baku. Below are video clips describing the second day of the battles.


The materials presented by the Armenian side demonstrate the defeat of the enemy's armored vehicles. Azerbaijani Tanks, BMP and vehicles.





Azerbaijan's controls demonstrate the destruction of Armenian T-72 MBTs. The deaths of representatives of the enemy's command personnel are announced - the head of the intelligence department of the General Staff of the Armenian Armed Forces, Major General Arakel Martikyan, Colonel Nikolay Haykyan, the commander of the air assault battalion, Lieutenant Colonel Lernik Vardanyan. The loss of control over a number of territories was recognized in Karabakh.




The sides make intensive use of artillery. According to the materials posted, Azerbaijanis actively use self-propelled systems (for example, the Pion self-propelled gun), in contrast to the Armenian troops, which demonstrate the operation of towed weapons (such as D-30 howitzers).



Rocket launchers are used, including TOS-1A "Solntsepek", a large batch of which was previously supplied to Baku. According to Azeri Defense, the Armenians use Serbian G-2000 missiles from the Grad installations.



The death of the general, the insolvency of the Osa air defense system and other moments: the second day of the fighting in Karabakh in the reports of the sides

G-2000


Judging by the personnel, the Armenian air defense system is unable to cope with the threats. Its main caliber, the Osa-AKM anti-aircraft missile systems, according to many observers, demonstrates inconsistency in the fight against attack drones. A similar situation was in Idlib, during the offensive of the Turkish troops. At the same time, these air defense systems are one of the main military "anti-aircraft guns" in the Russian army. It was reported about a number of modernizations of the "Wasp" carried out in the Russian Federation, but there is no information about the serial delivery of improved versions to the troops.



On both sides there are heavy losses in enemy manpower.




A number of statements indicate the possibility of further escalation of the confrontation. Against the background of the loss of control over a number of territories, Armenian Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan announced the need to retaliate. To a certain extent, Ankara acts as a deterrent, but Yerevan is ready to fend off this threat as well. Thus, the Armenian ambassador to the Russian Federation pointed out Yerevan's intention to use the Iskander-M OTRK in the event that Turkish F-16 fighters are involved in the conflict. Apparently, we are talking about a strike with operational-tactical missiles against strategic targets located in Turkey.

Against the background of the development of the active phase of the conflict in both republics, mobilization is underway. Armenian resources state that the Georgian border guards do not allow volunteers who intend to take part in the conflict to cross the border.

Photos used:
https://azeridefence.com/
227 comments
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  1. Asad
    Asad 29 September 2020 04: 04
    -61 qualifying.
    Well, where is the evidence about the destruction of the WASP? Compose agitation!
    1. LiSiCyn
      LiSiCyn 29 September 2020 04: 21
      38
      You're not right. At least 3 complexes were destroyed by UAVs. There is a confirmation video.
      1. hrych
        hrych 29 September 2020 06: 58
        25
        Is that all? Three Wasps and already conclusions about their inefficiency? Always the first blow is hard. When there is a treacherous attack. So they showed from drones ... a few units of the affected equipment. The rest is fantasy. And now there is nothing to show. So who landed the drones? The victorious reports of the first day somehow died out. Of course, the people of Karabakh should have taken care of the electronic warfare systems, but they manage to do that. The main proof of this is that the Azerbaijanis do not dare to use aviation, the drone fall greatly frightened them. In the Russian army? Wasp for that and Wasp, that if the main thing in Karabakh, then we have the lowest echelon of echeloned defense. Is it cooler than MANPADS.
        1. LiSiCyn
          LiSiCyn 29 September 2020 07: 56
          +4
          Quote: hrych
          Three Wasps and already conclusions about their inefficiency?

          Did I write about the ineffectiveness of "Wasp"? what
          1. hrych
            hrych 29 September 2020 07: 57
            11
            Not a reply to you, but to an article that we both comment on drinks
          2. Nikolaevich I
            Nikolaevich I 29 September 2020 10: 47
            +7
            Quote: LiSiCyn
            about the inefficiency of "Wasp"?

            Osa-AKM is capable of effectively intercepting enemy aircraft of various types. Helicopters, cruise missiles and UAVs are difficult targets for her. The probability of intercepting a subsonic cruise missile flying at an altitude of 50 meters is estimated at a range of 8 km, with one missile being estimated at about 0,1-0,4. UAVs are intercepted by air defense systems with an even lower probability.

            Modern warfare will take place with a large number of air-to-surface missiles, which forces modern air defense systems to intercept low-signature missiles in the radar range in large numbers and with a high degree of probability. SAM "Osa-AKM" does not satisfy this requirement.

            The short range of the missile (up to 10 km) does not allow a timely response to a missile attack. So a subsonic rocket with a speed of 250 m / s is capable of covering such a distance in 40 seconds. An air defense missile missile flies at a speed of about 500 m / s, so it will take 20 seconds to fly 10 km. Osa-AKM will have enough time, provided that the enemy cruise missile will fly towards the complex.
            Here's what you can read in some "militarized" Internet sources ... Although I was honored to read, somehow, that in one of the armed conflicts (the Middle East, North, East Africa ...), the Osa air defense system was shot down by guided missiles "air-ground", with which the enemy aircraft attacked the positions of these complexes ... maybe they lied! PS ... or maybe not ... By the way, I remember that the "Wasp" was somehow modernized in order to increase the capabilities of the complex to combat helicopters ...
            1. LiSiCyn
              LiSiCyn 29 September 2020 11: 39
              0
              Once again, especially for you ... wink
              Quote: LiSiCyn
              Did I write about the ineffectiveness of "Wasp"?

              I wrote :
              Quote: LiSiCyn
              At least 3 complexes were destroyed by UAVs.
            2. Barmal
              Barmal 29 September 2020 13: 23
              +2
              The helicopter for the Wasp AK was a target back in 1980. As I remember. About cruise missiles, the officer told us to the young cadets that this is also a target. They lie to you.
          3. Boris Chernikov
            Boris Chernikov 29 September 2020 17: 59
            +7
            everything is so simple, in the spring the Wasps gave a light and filled up the expensive Hermes, so the Azerbaijanis prepared a plan for their destruction ... I think they are stupidly hammering at them from afar and that's it ... there are a shoal of Armenians that do not work in terms of ensuring the secrecy of the complexes
        2. CSKA
          CSKA 29 September 2020 08: 42
          +2
          Quote: hrych
          Three Wasps and already conclusions about their inefficiency?

          Personally, I've only seen one video of Wasp's destruction. But it's hard to say about efficiency. It is not clear exactly how many helicopters and drones were destroyed.
          1. DrEng527
            DrEng527 29 September 2020 14: 44
            0
            Quote: CSKA
            it is not clear in person how many helicopters and drones were destroyed.

            maybe shot BC request
            1. Boris Chernikov
              Boris Chernikov 29 September 2020 18: 00
              0
              the standard practice in such cases is either to push the electronic warfare, or to beat beyond the radius of action
        3. g1v2
          g1v2 29 September 2020 11: 33
          0
          This raises the question, are wasps needed at all for our troops? Maybe it's worth changing them to new tori, even if in a smaller number?
          1. Alex777
            Alex777 29 September 2020 11: 53
            +7
            Instead of the Wasp, they make Pine.
            This type of air defense system should float.
            Torah is much more complicated and expensive.
            1. g1v2
              g1v2 2 October 2020 00: 11
              +1
              Is it worth the zoo to continue to produce? If there is a floating model of the torus, then it is better to focus on them than to build a pine tree with large to-you. Moreover, the torus is more efficient. And the cost price always decreases with an increase in the series of products. It is also not a cheap pleasure to expand the production of the new name of the air defense system from scratch and produce it for years. request
              1. Alex777
                Alex777 2 October 2020 10: 25
                0
                Is it worth the zoo to continue to produce? If there is a floating torus model

                Pine goes on the attack in the battle formations of armored personnel carriers and infantry fighting vehicles.
                Thor will never do that.
                1. g1v2
                  g1v2 2 October 2020 13: 03
                  0
                  Well, why should he go in battle formations then? It will simply cover the entire battlefield. The range is enough.
                  1. Alex777
                    Alex777 2 October 2020 14: 16
                    0
                    There is such a term: intended use.
                    There is nothing to add to this. I do not see a field for discussion.
          2. hrych
            hrych 29 September 2020 12: 06
            14
            In general, UAVs are the concern of electronic warfare. It is radio-controlled, often with television guidance, so disabling communication is not a great problem. Our EMP cannon is already hitting for 10 km and it is good to burn out electronics. For Pantsir, a small missile defense system was also specially prepared for the UAV in addition to the existing ones. But this is not the main thing, it is necessary to destroy the UAV control centers. These are not American Global Hawks, which are controlled via satellite and AWACS systems. Therefore, somewhere in a booth, within a radius of 10-20 km, a Turk sits and controls. This booth must be fixed with funds, again with electronic warfare and liquidated. Better to burn everything in the required radius. It is clear that the people of Karabakh cannot afford such a thing. But they simply had to clog the radio frequencies.
            1. Tavrik
              Tavrik 1 October 2020 13: 36
              0
              But they simply had to clog the radio frequencies.

              What are the frequencies? All? To put a jam, it is necessary to determine the control frequency of the UAV. And if they have a PPH? Will you score the whole streak?
              By what means do you define UAV control centers? And if not 10-20 km, but a little more?
              In short, it's not that simple. Especially for Armenians.
              1. hrych
                hrych 1 October 2020 17: 24
                +1
                Precisely the whole strip and scorewassat I do not require takeover. The power of the jammer acts on the device near, and the operator controls further. The most common anti-radar munition itself would find the operator wassat There is no mind to competently use electronic warfare, use agent intelligence. There must be an informant. There is no informant, take your tongue and torture. Every day drones are launched on Khmeimim, none of them broke through ... go learn from the Russians, spare no money. It is expensive, but cheaper than the damage and sacrifice. And who prevented them from purchasing barrage ammunition? Misers, 100 bucks would have chipped in and Karabakh is armed to the teeth ...
          3. Vadim237
            Vadim237 29 September 2020 16: 57
            +4
            SAM Osa for our troops has not been the basis for a long time now its place is taken by Tor M2 and Pantsir and Buk M3.
        4. Maz
          Maz 29 September 2020 11: 53
          +5
          Ayzers clearly do not cope with the task set by the Turks ...

          The Armenian Defense Ministry made a laconic comment on this video: "the enemy is running in panic"

          The leader of the nationalist Party of Great Unity (bbp), Mustafa Destiji, proposed to put on the parliament's agenda a vote for a mandate to send troops to Azerbaijan.

          “The parliament should offer the government of the Turkish Republic to send troops in support of Azerbaijan to fight against Armenia. The parliament must approve the mandate to send Turkish troops to Azerbaijan, ”he said.
      2. EnGenius
        EnGenius 30 September 2020 16: 50
        0
        They clearly show that the drone, being above the Osa air defense system, is in a dead zone invisible to the air defense system. That allows him to calmly fire or aim a guided missile or ammunition with a laser. Actually, Damantsev noted this more than once. Including the presence of a similar dead zone in the Pantsir, Tunguska and obsolete air defense systems.
        1. meandr51
          meandr51 30 September 2020 22: 53
          0
          As if you can't shoot him down with a second Wasp ...
          1. EnGenius
            EnGenius 1 October 2020 10: 08
            0
            The fact of the matter is that such systems should work with calculations from several complexes, "overlapping" the dead zones of each other. I doubt that Armenia did not know about the presence of UAVs and guided munitions in Azerbaijan. The result - we see on the illustrative examples of the Azerbaijani army.
    2. tlauicol
      tlauicol 29 September 2020 04: 39
      30
      even in this collection there is a Wasp, if you open your eyes.
      Armored vehicles burn like matches, horror of course!
      Well, the whole sky in the UAV
    3. Nychego
      Nychego 29 September 2020 04: 41
      +8
      Quote: ASAD
      Well, where is the evidence about the destruction of the Wasp?

      The video presented in the material is 3 "Wasps". On the same YouTube channel yesterday, the destruction of three more with the same type of ammunition is shown.
      "Wasp" - the old woman seems to be all, does not dance.

      Who can specify the type of ammunition that can take out the Wasp so effectively?
      And who saw the proofs for the plane allegedly shot down by Armenia last night?
      1. Oquzyurd
        Oquzyurd 29 September 2020 04: 51
        14
        "Who can specify the type of ammunition that takes out the Wasps so effectively?" MAM-L
        The high-precision small-sized ammunition (bomb) MAM-L (SMM - Smart Micro Munition) weighing 22 kg, developed by the Turkish company Roketsan specifically for use with UAVs, is actually a “trimmed” version of the Roketsan L-UMTAS ATGM (weight 37,5 kg,) with removal sections of the rocket engine and equipping with a laser semi-active guidance system. Ammunition length 1 m, caliber 160 mm. A warhead weighing 10 kg can be of two types - high-explosive fragmentation or tandem cumulative. It is stated that when dropped from a significant altitude, the flight range of the MAM-L exceeds 8 km.
        1. Nychego
          Nychego 29 September 2020 05: 04
          0
          Quote: Oquzyurd
          MAM-L
          Developed by the Turkish company Roketsan specifically for use with UAVs, high-precision small-sized ammunition (bomb) MAM-L (SMM - Smart Micro Munition)

          Thank you.
        2. Victor_B
          Victor_B 29 September 2020 05: 45
          +2
          Quote: Oquzyurd
          It is stated that when dropped from a significant altitude, the MAM-L flight range exceeds 8 km.

          To combat the Wasp, the AKM is enough that the launch range of MAM-L (SMM - Smart Micro Munition) exceeds the Wasp's range.
          Remind, pliz, the range of the Wasp ... (I didn't know, and I forgot ...)
          1. Nychego
            Nychego 29 September 2020 05: 54
            +5
            Quote: Victor_B
            Remind, pliz, the Wasp's range ...

            Latest modifications:
            The boundaries of the affected area: in range, km: 1,5-10
          2. Oquzyurd
            Oquzyurd 29 September 2020 06: 05
            +4
            "Remind me, pliz, Wasp's range" is up to 7 km.
            1. Nikolaevich I
              Nikolaevich I 29 September 2020 18: 55
              0
              Quote: Oquzyurd
              "Remind me, pliz, Wasp's range" is up to 7 km.

              Zurs of the latest Soviet modifications, which are included in the ammunition of the Osa-AKM air defense missile system, have the following performance characteristics: slope range-10 km; dog.on height-5 km ... the range of the radar is somewhere up to 40 km ...
          3. bobwings
            bobwings 29 September 2020 13: 09
            +4
            On some videos of the destruction of the Wasp systems, the approach of the missile is clearly visible from the side and not from above, which makes it possible to assert that they are hit by an ATGM.
        3. bobwings
          bobwings 29 September 2020 13: 01
          +4
          I can't understand one thing. From all open sources it is clear that Turkish UAVs have never been in service with Azerbaijan. On roller skates from parades, visits to parts of the beginning. the composition shows exclusively Israeli UAVs, imported and manufactured under license. Bayraktars have been mentioned since July, and even then there is no more interest in their future purchase. Even if they were delivered in July, they hardly managed to train the staff. This begs the question of what kind of UAVs are used at the front. Does this mean that the Bayraktars are controlled by Turkish operators and Israel is pushed aside, which Erdogan has been striving for for many years.
          1. Oquzyurd
            Oquzyurd 29 September 2020 13: 14
            0
            Firstly, the officers of the Azerbaijani Armed Forces are trained and trained in Turkey, each in its own profile. There are no problems with early training before the purchase. Secondly, there have long been rumors that Bayraktars are in the Armed Forces of Azerbaijan. The number was also said ... Israel will not be moved away, since Israel mainly supplies kamikaze drones, high-quality air defense systems, various missiles, anti-tank systems ... Israel is one of the closest countries of Azerbaijan, they are our friends.
      2. Oquzyurd
        Oquzyurd 29 September 2020 05: 25
        -9
        The information disseminated by the Armenian side about a plane of the Air Force of Azerbaijan allegedly shot down in the evening hours is disinformation.

        Colonel Vagif Dargyakhli, head of the press service of the Ministry of Defense, said this.

        He noted that all aviation units of the Azerbaijani army are in place and in working order.
        -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
        1. Nychego
          Nychego 29 September 2020 05: 30
          0
          Quote: Oquzyurd
          .... all aviation units of the Azerbaijani army are in place and in working order.

          Well, in general, it is reasonable - until the air defense of the raids of manned vehicles is sufficiently suppressed, one should hardly wait.
          Exactly because of the discordant message about the downed plane with my ideas about this company, I wanted to clarify the information.
          1. Oquzyurd
            Oquzyurd 29 September 2020 05: 32
            -15 qualifying.
            Iran congratulates the Azerbaijani people on the successes achieved in the counter-offensive operation and wishes to completely liberate the territories occupied by the Armenian army. As reported by Azeri media, the representative of the Supreme Leader of Iran Ayatollah Ali Khamenei in Ardabil province Hasan Amili said this.

            Amili said that the liberation of the occupied lands is fully consistent with both legal and religious requirements. "I ask Allah to return one million refugees to Karabakh, to their territories, I wish health to the defenders of rights on the Karabakh front," Amili said.
            1. Nychego
              Nychego 29 September 2020 05: 44
              12
              Quote: Oquzyurd
              Representative of the Supreme Leader of Iran Ayatollah Ali Khamenei in Ardabil province Hasan Amili

              This one, yes, more honest and more accurate.
              Although, of course, Iran should give a hat to a regional leader for statements on the topic of international politics.
              1. Tamer
                Tamer 29 September 2020 15: 59
                +1
                In this province of Iran, the majority of the population is ethnic Azerbaijanis.
                1. ZEMCH
                  ZEMCH 29 September 2020 18: 24
                  +1
                  Quote: Tamer
                  In this province of Iran, most of the population is ethnic Azerbaijanis.

                  Up to 30 million ethnic Azerbaijanis live in Iran, about 800 thousand in Turkey
            2. bobwings
              bobwings 29 September 2020 13: 04
              +8
              Yeah, congratulations ... And the Russian planes with the military aid of Armenia are passing through its territory. Georgia closed its borders and today Iran is the main reason for strengthening the Armenian army. These are the friends of the Azerbaijani people ...
              1. Oquzyurd
                Oquzyurd 29 September 2020 13: 15
                -3
                This is the essence of Iranian hypocrisy.
            3. 72jora72
              72jora72 30 September 2020 11: 19
              +1
              Iran congratulates the Azerbaijani people on the successes achieved in the counter-offensive operation and wishes to completely liberate the territories occupied by the Armenian army.
              Are you aware that the Iranians consider Azerbaijan almost their ancestral territories?
          2. Oquzyurd
            Oquzyurd 29 September 2020 05: 34
            -2
            The escalation between Azerbaijan and Armenia occurred due to the fact that the negotiations, which had been going on for decades, did not give any practical result. This situation cannot last forever. This was stated by a military expert, editor-in-chief of the National Defense magazine Igor Korotchenko during the next issue of the 60 minutes talk show on the Russia 1 TV channel.

            “Look at the map of military operations,” the expert noted. - They are conducted not on the territory of the NKR, but on the territory of a number of occupied regions of Azerbaijan. The point is that Azerbaijan is conducting military operations against Armenian formations on its territory within the internationally recognized borders. 1993, 4 resolutions of the UN Security Council confirm the territorial integrity of Azerbaijan. The international community confirms the territorial integrity of Azerbaijan, Russia confirms it.
            1. Nychego
              Nychego 29 September 2020 05: 42
              13
              Quote: Oquzyurd
              Igor Korotchenko

              I disagree with him.
              In my opinion, this is Erdogan's third sovereign company and the goal is not to expel the Armenians to Karabakh, but to expel them from Karabakh.
              1. Misha Honest
                Misha Honest 29 September 2020 08: 34
                +3
                Quote: Nychego
                Erdogan's third sovereign company and the goal is not to expel Armenians to Karabakh, but to expel them from Karabakh.

                It seemed obvious to me that the main goal of Erdogashki, like Aliyev at this stage, is to break through a direct corridor between the Turks and Azerbaijan. hi
              2. Nikolaevich I
                Nikolaevich I 29 September 2020 19: 19
                +5
                Quote: Nychego
                Igor Korotchenko

                I am begging you ! The last thing to do is listen to this Korotchenko! This is also that famous balabol and talker!
            2. Graz
              Graz 29 September 2020 06: 38
              -15 qualifying.
              Russia does not intervene until the time, if Azerbaijan and Turkey cross the red line, missiles will be immediately struck from the Caspian flotilla and the Black Sea, Azerbaijan will be immediately destroyed by the entire mining industry, this will be 100%
              1. Oquzyurd
                Oquzyurd 29 September 2020 06: 53
                +4
                "red line" The red line is the territory of Armenia. From the first day Azerbaijan has been declaring that we will liberate our territories in Karabakh. Why the heck do we need the territory of Armenia? And I recommend not to fantasize about strikes on the extractive industry, as it doesn't sound nice, not in relation to Azerbaijan ...
                1. Graz
                  Graz 29 September 2020 07: 05
                  +6
                  The Turks will not quarrel with us for your sake, they are already at daggers with Greece, Egypt, France, the front in Syria, Libya, Iraq, Trump also dislikes Erdogan, to put it mildly, the Saudis, like most Arabs, do not like Turks for genocide and occupation
                2. paul3390
                  paul3390 29 September 2020 13: 20
                  +2
                  No. The red line is the presence of Turks on your territory .. If the Ottomans actually take part in hostilities, or the number of their troops in Azerbaijan exceeds a certain number, Russia will have to fit in with Armenia. With all of this that implies for you .. A Turkish military base in the Caspian Sea - we cannot allow it in any way. However - like Iran ..
                  1. Train
                    Train 30 September 2020 22: 15
                    -1
                    You are so naive. Nobody will fit in and the Turks will not do anything. They shot down the plane and we washed ourselves, they know that the leadership of the Russian Federation is "impotent" in making key decisions and therefore will do what they want and where they want
                3. Lannan Shi
                  Lannan Shi 29 September 2020 15: 20
                  14
                  Quote: Oquzyurd
                  Azerbaijan from the first day declares that we will liberate our territories in Karabakh

                  Laponka. Even during the time of the Karabakh Khanate, Nagorno-Karabakh was not yours either legally or in fact. He was Iranian. Like the Karabakh Khanate, it was the property of Iran. I mean Persia at that time. As well as Baku and other environs. After the Russian. Before that, Armenian, Turkish, again Iranian, sometimes even Georgian, but I have never been yours. And in more or less noticeable numbers, Azerbaijanis appeared there only under Soviet rule. Look at the tsarist census of the population of Karabakh as a whole, and let alone Nagorny in general. Simply put, Nagorno-Karabakh, like Nakhichevan in general, is a gift to you from the USSR as a whole, and from the old Krupsky in particular. Received on the condition that you will be part of the USSR. You left the USSR in August 1991, the first after the Balts, by the way. And in general, it is absolutely incomprehensible on the basis of what you are claiming Karabakh, violating the conditions of its receipt. It belongs to Kazakhstan. Yeah. As the last one to dump from the USSR. Do not forget to return Nakhichevan to the Kazakhs. lol :
                  1. Scorpio05
                    Scorpio05 29 September 2020 16: 06
                    -2
                    Well?))) My kitty ...
                    On July 5, 1921, a meeting of the Caucasian Bureau was held on the issue of Nagorno-Karabakh. On the initiative of Ordzhonikidze and NAZARETYAN (!), The issue of the fate of Nagorno-Karabakh is again raised. The new meeting made a decision: "Based on the need for national peace between Muslims and Armenians and the economic ties of Upper and Lower Karabakh, its permanent ties with Azerbaijan, Nagorno-Karabakh TO LEAVE (!) Within the Azerbaijan SSR, granting it broad regional autonomy with the administrative center in the mountains . Shusha, part of the autonomous region. "
                    And even earlier, the Armenians themselves renounced Nagorno-Karabakh:
                    As for the Armenian claims on Karabakh, the diplomatic mission reminded Chicherin: "In Batum, Kachaznuni and Khatisyan, negotiating with the Turks (meaning the peace conference in Batum in May-June 1918 - G. G.) agreed to give Karabakh to Azerbaijan" ( To Chicherin's Foreign Drug from the diplomatic mission of Soviet Russia in Irevan, November, 1920 // GA AR, f. 28, op.1, d.38, l.15).

                    On May 22, 1919 Anastas Mikoyan in a telegram to V.I. Lenin noted: “Dashnaks, agents of the Armenian government, are seeking accession of Karabakh to Armenia. But for the people of Karabakh, this would mean losing the source of their life in Baku and contacting Erivan, with which they had never been connected with anything. The Armenian peasantry at the fifth congress decided to join Azerbaijan. ” (The Central Party Archive of the Institute of Marxism-Leninism under the Central Committee of the CPSU - CPA IML, f. 461, op. 1, unit store 4525, l. 1.)
                    If the khanate was part of Iran (more precisely, "Davlati Mehlugi Qajariya" i.e. the state of Qajars), by the way, which were ruled by a purely Azerbaijani Qajar dynasty (my distant relatives by pure chance))), then why the Russian Empire signed an agreement with with the Karabakh khanot represented by the sovereign khan of all Karabakh Ibrahim Jevanshir. Probably the Russian emperor and courtiers have borrowed more than yours. Secondly, how is it a part of Iran, if Shah Mohammed Kajar, then the prince of blood Abbas Mirza Kajar, failed to take Shusha (although they were besieging for a long time) from Panahali Khan and Ibrahim Khan Jevanshirov? And Why did the Jevanshirs print their own money and send ambassadors everywhere?
                    1. Lannan Shi
                      Lannan Shi 29 September 2020 18: 16
                      11
                      Quote: Scorpio05
                      Nagorno-Karabakh LEAVE (!) Within the Azerbaijan SSR,

                      Laponka. So, information for. It is difficult to leave in the line-up that was not included in it. The 11th Army was involved to "remain in the composition". In the composition of 10 rifle, and 3 cavalry divisions, if chu. Of course, divisions of the 20-21 model years are still the same power and onslaught, but nevertheless ... 13 divisions. However, there was an uprising in Nagorno-Karabakh. And it also belonged to Baku, as the satellites of Jupiter belong to the Sgolodopiraevsky village council.
                      Quote: Scorpio05
                      The Armenian peasantry at the fifth congress decided to join Azerbaijan. "

                      Ugums. And after 2-3 months I took the pitchfork, just to disconnect lol
                      Quote: Scorpio05
                      by the way, which were ruled by a purely Azerbaijani Qajar dynasty

                      Laponka. Qajars cannot be Azerbaijanis, because they are Qajars. This is a nationality, if chu. The Azeri kajar sounds like a Russian Tatar. And even if you come from present-day Azerbaijan, then what next? Russia was ruled by the Holstein Gottorp branch of the Oldenburg dynasty for almost a century and a half. Purebred Germans. Iiiii ???? Is Russia the property of the FRG? By the way, Azerbaijan too. As the former property of the Holstein Gottorp.
                      Quote: Scorpio05
                      why did the Russian Empire sign an agreement with the Karabakh khanot

                      Patamushta, in current terms, the khan of Karabakh was a separatist and terrorist. Revolted against the federal government, and slaughtered the troops conducting the counter-terrorist operation. Well, Russia, as an extremely adequate and hungry neighbor, could not pass by the ownerless, in the opinion of the emperor of Ingushetia, a piece of land. And the Karabakh khan was retrained from separatists and terrorists, to fighters for democracy, or whatever it should sound like. Simply put ... Why not grab some land, taking advantage of the turmoil in Persia? And with whom to put the signature? With the ruler of Persia? lol
                      Quote: Scorpio05
                      Probably the Russian emperor and courtiers have borrowed more than yours.

                      This is yes. That's for sure. Which side of the sandwich lies the sausage, and how to squeeze this sandwich from the owner ... They knew much better than me yes
                      Quote: Scorpio05
                      Secondly, how is it a part of Iran, if Shah Mohammed Kajar, then the prince of blood Abbas Mirza Kajar could not take Shusha

                      Well, Russia in Chechnya also did not manage in 1 day. AND? Then what? And do not dump the Karabakhs under the wing of the Russian Empire, and the Iranians would put things in order there. A matter of time, nothing more.
                      Quote: Scorpio05
                      And Why did the Jevanshirs print their own money and send ambassadors everywhere?

                      Well, not everywhere, but in the neighbors, and even then not in all. And again. Then what? The Siberian Order also printed its own money. My husband has such in the collection. It is engraved on them, in copper in Russian - Siberian. And he easily sent ambassadors to China. Iiiii ?? Was the Siberian order an independent state? fool Wild times, wild morals. Anyone who had the audacity to do so drew his money. In France, it does. The Parisian livre was slowly smothered by the Tours one. AND?? Are historians deceiving us? The real rulers of France were the governors of Touraine? lol
                      1. Scorpio05
                        Scorpio05 29 September 2020 20: 59
                        -5
                        Kisul, not exactly somehow ...
                        The status quo in Karabakh was fixed by the British already in 1919, and the local Armenians were forced to recognize it crying
                        1. "In January 1919, the British command in the Caucasus announced that Karabakh and Zangezur were recognized under the temporary Azerbaijani command until the decision of the Paris Peace Conference. This decision caused discontent among the Armenians, but the Armenian National Council of Karabakh had to submit to these conditions after the failed hostilities in the summer of 1919."
                        Source: Artie H. Arslanian / Middle Eastern Studies / Vol. 16 / January 1980 / p. 92-104 Artie H. Arslanian / MIDDLE EASTERN STUDIES
                        2. "At the beginning of 1920 at the Paris Peace Conference, Karabakh was recognized for Azerbaijan."
                        Sources:
                        Tim Potier. Conflict in Nagorno-Karabakh, Abkhazia and South Ossetia: A Legal Appraisal. - S. 2.
                        Charlotte Mathilde Louise Hille. State Building and Conflict Resolution in the Caucasus. - S. 167.
                        In addition, the Armenians concluded an agreement with the Azerbaijani government and recognized the authority of Baku over the Armenian part of Karabakh too. But the Armenians were not Armenians if they did not continue to intrigue.
                        "In March 1920, an uprising breaks out in Shushi. Khatisyan writes that the Armenian government did not approve of the armed uprising in Karabakh, and it was raised by forces unrelated to the government. At the end of March, the first victims appear. The Minister of Foreign Affairs of Azerbaijan sends a note of protest to the answer to which Khatisyan notes that his government has nothing to do with this. The uprising is suppressed, Azerbaijani troops are entering Shushi. "
                        By the way, the source is Armenian: Excerpt from the book KARABAKH DIARY; GREEN and BLACK, chapter thirty-nine, part 3. ANİ Armenian Research Center.
                        The Azerbaijani troops under the command of the chief of staff of the Azerbaijani army General Habib bey Salimov and the governor of Karabakh Khosrov bey Sultanov sequentially took the Askeran fortress, Askeran himself and Khankendi entered Shusha, defeating the Armenian troops. The commander of the rebellious Armenians, Dali Ghazar, was killed, and the Armenian general Dro, with the remnants of the Armenian regular units, fled back to Armenia.
                        That's how hare hi
                      2. Lannan Shi
                        Lannan Shi 1 October 2020 19: 25
                        +2
                        Quote: Scorpio05
                        "In January 1919, the British command in the Caucasus announced that Karabakh and Zangezur were recognized under the temporary Azerbaijani command

                        Oh, how .... Actually, the military command should command the troops. When it begins to decide who and what will own ... He urgently needs to see a narcologist. Or, most likely, a psychiatrist. Because, as the adequacy of the perception of the world there does not even smell.
                        Quote: Scorpio05
                        "In early 1920, at the Paris Peace Conference, Karabakh was recognized for Azerbaijan."

                        Learn history. It's useful. At the Paris conference, the affairs of the Entente and Germany were settled with avi. And yes, even Turkey. Those. countries that lost in WWI. Azerbaijan, ka and Armenia, with Poland-Finland and other Buryatiya - the possession of the former Russian Empire. Neither the British, nor the French, nor the Americans fought with this empire. And even more so they did not win the war against her. On what basis this gang decided that it could dispose of the Russians, yes, yes, the Russians, exactly on the same basis that you consider them yours, namely, they came and conquered both Baku and its environs, the lands - there is a great mystery. The only one who could decide who, when, on what conditions and with what territories would remain was the Russian authorities. In 1920, the only legal authority in Russia is the Bolsheviks. Yes. Completely legal. Taking her by force. Like any power in the world. And the republic in France, and the parliament in England, the Kaiser in Germany, the revolted convicts in the USA, and so on. The legal authorities of Russia decided that you get Karabakh and Nakhichevan, on the terms of being in the USSR. You canceled the deal. No problem. Received return and are free.
                        And say thank you that you are free within the current borders, and not as a buffer zone between us and Iran. The width of meters is 200. For, guided by your own concepts, Russia honestly won the Ganja Khanate, which means it doesn't matter who exactly lives in Baku, at any moment we can start with the processing of strategists and the CD, and end with assault groups on the streets. Returning their original territories. This is strictly your logic, not mine. Karabakh was under your, by the way, it is very debatable what exactly your power. 50 years old, and Azerbaijan is almost 200 under ours. And we have almost 4 times more rights to start conquering a tank than you have Karabakh. Do you like this approach to the question? And this is your logic, not mine.
                        Quote: Scorpio05
                        Qajars are purebred Azerbaijanis, don't teach me who Azerbaijanis are,

                        Painfully familiar. At my headquarters, I decide who is Jewish and who is not. If Chu, then the Partagenoise, from which you take an example, did pre-speak. Let not to the gallows, but to the sentence to it. yes Nationalism is good when it is in moderation. In your case, he broke the scale long ago, and at the same time rushed the ceiling and into the stratosphere.
                      3. Scorpio05
                        Scorpio05 1 October 2020 22: 04
                        -2
                        Are you sitting on sedatives or megalomania leaping? Probably in a jacket ala "Joseph Vissarionovich" you sit on a stool and control the fate of the world, gloomily knocking a pipe on the green cloth of the table)) Is it okay that the Russian Federation recognizes Azerbaijan as an independent state within its borders and has diplomatic relations with it? What rights are you talking about, if about the criminal concepts of hopstop, then maybe, if about internationally accepted laws and principles of coexistence of countries recognized by all countries of the world, incl. and RF, then you are not to me, but to Sklif. No offense, Messire, just my opinion, otherwise you can use home remedies, cognac, a chocolate bar with citrus, a Dutch cigarella there, and a bathhouse. knock with a broom on the blurry sides. You need to relax, to enhance the effect of the corps de ballet invite wink
                        And the decisions, as you put it, the "gangs" were recognized by both the Azerbaijani government and the Armenian population of NK, they personally forgot to ask you)
                        I am glad that interstate relations do not depend on people like you.
                        And let me be curious, did we terminate any such deal? A case not in Belovezhskaya Pushcha? Ahh ... it's probably the Azerbaijanis who elected B. Yeltsin as their president, or maybe M. Gorbachev was an Azerbaijani?)) Who buried the USSR together. It is not necessary to throw from a sore head to a healthy one. Nobody invited us to Pushcha and was not interested in our opinion, they presented us with a fact, they say, gentlemen on the way out. Now yourself, Sami ...
                      4. Lannan Shi
                        Lannan Shi 1 October 2020 23: 15
                        +1
                        Quote: Scorpio05
                        Is it okay that the Russian Federation recognizes Azerbaijan as an independent state within its borders and has diplomatic relations with it?

                        Those. Should Moscow declare that it no longer recognizes Azerbaijan and declares its rights to Baku as an honestly conquered one, and you immediately realize everything sharply and renounce independence? Or do you not recognize the rights of the Russian conquerors, but only your own? You can tell clearly.
                        Quote: Scorpio05
                        What rights are you talking about, if about the criminal concepts of hopstop, then maybe, if about internationally accepted laws

                        Again. On what basis, an incomprehensible gang, under the leadership of Gopnik Wilson, decided that it had the right to make some decisions on the lands belonging to Russia? Since you are already referring to these decisions, then justify their legality.
                        Quote: Scorpio05
                        if the internationally accepted laws and principles of coexistence of countries recognized by all countries of the world, incl. and RF, then you are not to me, but to Sklif.

                        Laponka. If you are talking about international law, then you yourself have left the legal field. Back in the Soviet years, having begun, and then, after independence, continuing the shock policy of assimilation, which directly contradicts Article 4, if sclerosis does not fail, or 5, if it does, the convention on the right of nations to equality and self-determination. There are other points there. Violated. For you stomped on the convention from the heart. But one thing is enough. You automatically fell out of the clause of the UN Charter on the right to territorial integrity. You need to know all the laws, and not only those that are convenient for you personally. yes By the way. It is under this dressing that international law, which you adore so much, has presented the independence of Kosovo.
                        Quote: Scorpio05
                        And the decisions, as you put it, the "gangs" were recognized by both the Azerbaijani government and the Armenian population of NK

                        You will decide, little one, with whom you then fought in Karabakh. A couple of posts above, you wrote that Armenia did not want Karabakh then, and did not provide it with support. Now, as the population of Karabakh amicably torn under your wing. Could it be that the goblins with the gnomes invaded the unfortunate Karabakh?
                        Quote: Scorpio05
                        And let me be curious, did we terminate any such deal? A case not in Belovezhskaya Pushcha?

                        You announced your secession from the USSR in early August 1991, when the Union existed de jure and de facto. Well, return Nakhichevan with Karabakh. I already wrote that in theory they should not even be us, but Kazakhstan, as the most persistent of the Union. Chu? And you don't want to execute the deal, and the toad strangles the received payment? Your life is hard scammers yes
                        By the way. Belovezhie it happened a little later than August 91 yes
                4. Scorpio05
                  Scorpio05 29 September 2020 21: 15
                  -6
                  Qajars are purebred Azerbaijanis, don't teach me who Azerbaijanis are,
                  The vast and glorious Qajar-Ziyadoglu family gave many famous surnames and families in Azerbaijan itself. These were the princes of the blood of the Qajars - the military leaders of the democratic republic in 1918: both major generals of the tsarist and then of the Azerbaijani army Feyzulla Mirza Qajar and Amanulla Mirza Qajar (leaders of the anti-Bolshevik uprising in Ganja), statesmen of the ADR Adil Khan Ziyadkhanov, Ismail -khan Ziyadkhanov, Amir Kazim-Mirza Govanli-Qajar, who was also one of the organizers of the Ganja uprising against Soviet power. In addition to them, in modern Azerbaijan there are Bakhmanovs, Beglarbekov-Jevanshirs, Badalbeyli (rector of the conservatory F. Badalbeyli), Ziyatkhanovs, Ziyadoglu, Ugurlubeyli, etc.
                  Although as sovereigns they were so-so, except for the brilliant and cruel cripple Muhammad Qajar - the founder of the dynasty and the brave clever Abbas Mirza, few of them can be distinguished.
              2. Nikolaevich I
                Nikolaevich I 29 September 2020 19: 26
                +5
                Quote: Lannan Shi
                Laponka

                Quote: Scorpio05
                My little kitty.

                Pancake ! Are you really so unbearable that you and your feelings immediately go to the VO pages ?! You'd better wash off your bed and get a hotel room! repeat
            3. uranium
              uranium 29 September 2020 18: 41
              -2
              What the hell are you talking about. In 1991, the first Armenia withdrew from the USSR, where 96% voted in a referendum for the withdrawal. in contrast to Azerbaijan, more than 80% of the votes were for the preservation of the USSR.
              About the population census proofs in the studio. And at the same time attach Griboyedov's letters.
        2. The eye of the crying
          The eye of the crying 29 September 2020 18: 15
          0
          Quote: Graz
          Azerbaijan will be immediately destroyed by the entire mining industry


          This is called "aggression". The United States is terribly disliked for this.
      3. Keyser soze
        Keyser soze 29 September 2020 10: 19
        11
        Azerbaijan is conducting military operations against Armenian formations on its territory within the internationally recognized borders.


        What, how are you doing in Cyprus? Are there also internationally recognized borders?
        1. Oquzyurd
          Oquzyurd 29 September 2020 10: 32
          -13 qualifying.
          No, the situation there is different. In Cyprus, in the north, there are Turkish bases, in the south, there are British bases, and these countries are responsible (guarantors) for the security of the two communities of the island.
          The referendum on the Annan plan was held on April 24, 2004 simultaneously in the Republic of Cyprus and the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus [1].

          The referendum took place immediately before the accession of the Republic of Cyprus to the EU, while Annan's plan provided, if the referendum was successful, the entry of a united Cyprus into the European Union from May 1, 2004 [2].

          Residents of both states were asked if they approve of the fifth version of the UN proposal for the reunification of the island, which has been divided into Greek and Turkish parts since 1974. In Northern Cyprus, a majority of 65% voted for reunification, with a turnout of 89%. Greek Cypriots rejected the reunification plan with 76% of the vote against, while the turnout was 87%. [3] Since the introduction of the Annan plan required its approval by both parties to the conflict, as a result of the fact that the plan was rejected by the Greek Cypriots, it was canceled /
          So, Keyser Soze, they are doing well. Now how are you?)))
          1. Keyser soze
            Keyser soze 29 September 2020 10: 44
            12
            Now how are you doing?)))


            I’m fine - I’m looking at how you are establishing friendly relations with the whole world and at the moment when the Russians say a few words with the Americans I’ll buy tickets to Constantinople. Do you think it will be given to the Greeks or will it remain a Russian protectorate?

            At one time I read Davutoglu - "Strategic Depth" - with theorists like him and with practitioners like Erdogan, your future, as a protectorate, is guaranteed by 120%.
            1. Oquzyurd
              Oquzyurd 29 September 2020 11: 06
              -16 qualifying.
              So I understand that you are a Bulgarian. Why are you worried about the Greeks? We will appoint you and the Greeks a normal Vali, you will freely visit the common capital of Istanbul, do not worry. No matter how 400 years have passed in vain, we love you.
              1. Keyser soze
                Keyser soze 29 September 2020 11: 10
                13
                So I understand that you are a Bulgarian. Why are you worried about the Greeks? We will appoint you and the Greeks a normal Vali, you will freely visit the common capital of Istanbul, do not worry. No matter how 400 years have passed in vain, we love you.



                Well, I told you that your plans are very extensive. When the Lord wants to kill someone, he takes his mind.

                I am afraid that in your case the mind is gone ...
                1. Oquzyurd
                  Oquzyurd 29 September 2020 11: 15
                  -7
                  This was a response to your stupidity and provocation "Today, 10:44"
                  So it suits you better. "When the Lord wants to kill someone, he takes his mind."
                2. pytar
                  pytar 29 September 2020 12: 19
                  19
                  Jeyhun, my sonarist is right about something - Erdogan's aggressive, pardonless policy led to the fact that he made many enemies for himself, and not only along the entire perimeter. And the current armed conflict in Karabakh will not lead to a decisive result for Azerbaijan. Unfortunately, many people from both sides will go to another world, we see terrible pictures from the screens. But Azerbaijan will not have time to regain Karabakh, even if it achieves some local success. Big players are not interested in breaking the statute. The pressure on both countries will intensify, and Russia will ultimately say its "stop". The Kremlin is still showing passivity, but this is until the situation swings in someone's direction! As a result, both Armenia and Azerbaijan will become even more dependent on Russia. Turkey is a factor, but it only has influence on Azerbaijan, while Russia has leverage both in Baku and Yerevan. My personal opinion is, I do not pretend to be "first instance". hi
      4. Pavlos Melas
        Pavlos Melas 29 September 2020 13: 43
        +1
        This is, as always, double standards, it will naturally be explained that the situation is different ...
    4. Boris Chernikov
      Boris Chernikov 29 September 2020 18: 04
      0
      if we remember that the "Azerbaijani regions" in fact separate Karabakh from Armenia, then of course they first try to surround
  2. NEXUS
    NEXUS 29 September 2020 07: 51
    +7
    Quote: Nychego
    Well, in general, it is reasonable - until the air defense of the raids of manned vehicles is sufficiently suppressed, one should hardly wait.

    I will not be surprised, in this regard, if Armenia suddenly has Russian electronic warfare systems that can multiply the advantage of the Azeybardjanians in the UAV issue by zero.
    1. Interlocutor
      Interlocutor 29 September 2020 13: 29
      13
      I will not be surprised, in this regard, if Armenia suddenly has Russian electronic warfare

      Will not appear in the coming days. The educational process is underway. There is no need to disturb him. On the basis of ours, he probably already exists.
  • Graz
    Graz 29 September 2020 06: 36
    +1
    in general, there are footage of a downed aircraft on YouTube, it does not pull on a plane, but on an uav, yes
    1. Oquzyurd
      Oquzyurd 29 September 2020 06: 46
      -3
      It's about the plane.
    2. Nychego
      Nychego 29 September 2020 07: 11
      +2
      Quote: Graz
      in general, there are footage of a downed aircraft on YouTube, it does not pull on a plane, but on an uav, yes

      This is where on the field collect pieces of sheathing with frequent perforations? There is such, but somehow too many perforated pieces for Bayraktar.
      1. Graz
        Graz 29 September 2020 16: 29
        +1
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJPeRM7Jw4Q
  • Serg4545
    Serg4545 29 September 2020 13: 27
    +5
    Quote: Nychego
    "Wasp" - the old woman seems to be all, does not dance

    Not certainly in that way.
    Most likely the drones fly higher than the Wasp missiles reach.
    Naturally, this doesn't make Wasp useless. It's just that other complexes should deal with higher-altitude targets.
    And yes. For ANY air defense system, you can pick up a target that it will not reach in height.
    This does not mean that all air defense systems are useless?
  • Alexey from Perm
    Alexey from Perm 29 September 2020 07: 09
    11
    I understand your remark as follows: for a salary I will be an idiot)))
    Well, in general, these damn Bayraktars would do the same with our army, after all, the technological advantage is a serious thing, this is not for you to push at speech parades ...
    1. Nychego
      Nychego 29 September 2020 07: 32
      +2
      Quote: Alexey from Perm
      Well, in general, these damn Bayraktars would have done the same with our army ...

      Well, we still have electronic warfare units, and you can try to reach the operator with something like "Tochka-U".
      But "Wasp", yes, "Wasp" is food for the Bayraktars.
    2. Grits
      Grits 29 September 2020 07: 59
      -4
      Quote: Alexey from Perm
      Well, in general, these damn Bayraktars would do the same with our army, after all, the technological advantage is a serious thing, this is not for you to push at speech parades ...

      Turkish "Tractors" are participating in the third war. And quite effective. It seems that so far no opposition has been found.
      1. Whirlwind
        Whirlwind 29 September 2020 09: 51
        +4
        And why did the Tunguska, Armor, Torah, Derivation and Pines work on these Bayraktar, but did not work?
        I am silent about electronic warfare ...
        The youngest Wasps in thirty years ...
        Everything is just beginning there ...
      2. perm23
        perm23 29 September 2020 13: 42
        +4
        in Siri, the first blow was from them and then they quieted down when they hit. also in Libya. unexpected drone strike, calculations are not ready. and then everything falls into place. and Turkish drones fall
    3. Keyser soze
      Keyser soze 29 September 2020 11: 06
      10
      Well, in general, these damn Bayraktars would do the same with our army.


      Your army has slightly different weapons and very different soldiers and this flying stuff will disappear from the sky before it appears ... laughing
  • Mar.Tirah
    Mar.Tirah 29 September 2020 09: 32
    +1
    Quote: ASAD
    Well, where is the evidence about the destruction of the WASP? Compose agitation!

    There were defeats. It is impossible to fight with modern types of weapons with relic technology. Another thing struck. The lack of literacy of the author of the article about these complexes in service with the RA. Here is an article from the same site, let him read it. Https://topwar.ru/168260-mnogo -li-u-nas-sistem-pvo-zrk-osa-i-zrk-tor.html
  • APASUS
    APASUS 29 September 2020 20: 17
    0
    Quote: ASAD
    Well, where is the evidence about the destruction of the WASP? Compose agitation!

    Please
  • LiSiCyn
    LiSiCyn 29 September 2020 04: 08
    16
    Blitzkrieg failed. If we draw an analogy with Afrin, where the Turks, too, tried to take it impudently, now they will try with long-range artillery and UAVs to grind the defense of the Armenians. It became impossible to inflict such losses that would hold the strong points. But, this is a rather long process and will Azerbaijan have enough spirit, provided that the political pressure on it will only increase. what
    1. Oquzyurd
      Oquzyurd 29 September 2020 04: 36
      -23 qualifying.
      "Will Azerbaijan have enough spirit?" Yes, Azerbaijan will not stop until the complete liberation of the occupied territories in 1992-94. Blitzkrieg was not initially conceived, realistic, the operations will proceed according to the command's plan. If, of course, half the way they meet Armenians with a white flag, then they will talk without further war.
      And yet, today, September 29, a meeting of the UN Security Council will take place. For the first time in many decades, after the first Karabakh war in the early 90s of the last century, a permanent UN body, which is entrusted with the main responsibility for maintaining international security, will also consider the issue of a new military escalation in Karabakh.
      Along with Estonia, Germany, which is one of the 10 non-permanent members of the UN Security Council, initiated the holding of hearings, including on Azerbaijan.
      Attention is drawn to the very formulation of the issue, voiced by Germany, which demanded that the situation in the conflict zone be considered in the context of the four UN resolutions adopted after the occupation of the Azerbaijani regions outside Nagorno-Karabakh (Nos. 822, 853, 874 and 884) demanding the unconditional withdrawal of the Armenian occupation forces from the illegally occupied territories. ...
      1. LiSiCyn
        LiSiCyn 29 September 2020 05: 08
        22
        Quote: Oquzyurd
        Yes, Azerbaijan will not stop until the complete liberation of the occupied territories in 1992-94.

        These are all words ... You will have to fight first of all, not the Turks. Are the people of Azerbaijan ready to bear very heavy losses? And not only human, but also material.
        Quote: Oquzyurd
        a meeting of the UN Security Council will take place.

        There is a suspicion that they will tell you "ay-ay-ay". And they will demand to sit down at the "negotiating table".
        1. Oquzyurd
          Oquzyurd 29 September 2020 05: 11
          -10 qualifying.
          I wrote about this below, I will not repeat myself. Today, 05:06
        2. Black_Vatnik
          Black_Vatnik 29 September 2020 05: 18
          -8
          There is a suspicion that they will tell you "ay-ay-ay". And they will demand to sit down at the "negotiating table".



          Perhaps it will be so, but by that time Azerbaijan can make decent progress. And in 2-3 years there is another escalation.
          When local specialists in oriental studies periodically discuss the historicity of the Karabakh lands, for some reason they do not mention that Armenia has been purchasing 7 Azerbaijani regions for a quarter of a century, which have nothing to do with Karabakh. It was a matter of time before a hard escalation issue. If not today, then tomorrow Baku would launch an offensive to recapture the lands that legally belong to them, incl. and Karabakh. The presence or absence of Erdogan behind Aliyev's back is a secondary issue.
          1. CSKA
            CSKA 29 September 2020 09: 04
            15
            Quote: Black_Jacket
            If not today, then tomorrow Baku would launch an offensive in order to recapture the lands that legally belong to them, incl. and Karabakh.

            Well, are we going to talk about laws here? By law, Turkey has no right to be located in Northern Cyprus. According to the law, Yugoslavia was not supposed to disintegrate. Over the past 30 years, all international laws, without exception, have been violated.
            1. Black_Vatnik
              Black_Vatnik 29 September 2020 09: 57
              -12 qualifying.
              We will not interfere with everything. Turkey and Cyprus are a separate conversation.
              And the collapse of Yugoslavia is one of the worst tragedies of the 20th century.
              But all this does not negate the fact that Armenia has been accumulating foreign lands for 4 centuries.
              1. The comment was deleted.
              2. CSKA
                CSKA 29 September 2020 13: 14
                +7
                Quote: Black_Jacket
                Turkey and Cyprus are a separate conversation.

                And how is the Turkish occupation of Cyprus different?
                Quote: Black_Jacket
                But all this does not negate the fact that Armenia has been accumulating foreign lands for 4 centuries.

                )))))) What are you doing? As I begin to listen to Armenians and Azerbaijanis, you are amazed. Do you love to invent a story for yourself. Or maybe Azerbaijan is occupying the territory of Urartu.))))))
                1. Black_Vatnik
                  Black_Vatnik 29 September 2020 15: 04
                  +4
                  No different. And what's good about that? If you wanted to prick me with Turkey, then you missed, because I do not feel piety towards Turkey from the word at all, I was born in Russia and took the oath in Russia. And he always considered Turkey a historical enemy. Exercise.

                  I saw my typo right away, I decided to correct it, but then, on reflection, deleted the comment, because I expected you to understand it anyway. In vain I counted. Not 4 centuries, but a quarter of a century - is that clearer?
                  In addition to Karabakh, which is controversial, Armenia occupied 7 more regions that have nothing to do with Karabakh.
              3. Just Sanych
                Just Sanych 29 September 2020 13: 27
                +5
                Learn history - Armenians have lived in Karabakh for hundreds of centuries, when a country like Azerbaijan did not even exist.
                1. yawa63
                  yawa63 29 September 2020 17: 58
                  0
                  I understand you, however, there is a suspicion that in 100 years the Armenians will claim Adler, since by that time they will have been living there for a couple of centuries.
                  1. Just Sanych
                    Just Sanych 30 September 2020 03: 21
                    +1
                    You don't want to see the difference, or you are pretending. Adler, where the Armenians live, is the territory of Russia. Armenians originally lived on the land of Karabakh. Let me remind you that one of the most ancient nations.
                2. The comment was deleted.
              4. perm23
                perm23 29 September 2020 13: 47
                +1
                so if you look at the map of the world there, a few countries are still occupied by foreign lands. that France that England. that Poland. that the USA
          2. perm23
            perm23 29 September 2020 13: 46
            +3
            what law are you talking about. if so, then all these are the lands of Russia of the Russian Empire. Until 1918, the Azerbaijanis did not have their own statehood, and unlike neighboring Georgians and Armenians,
            1. Black_Vatnik
              Black_Vatnik 29 September 2020 15: 09
              -4
              Are you aware that the empire no longer exists 100?
              There is no need to go into the jungle, otherwise it will turn out that Russia is a piece of land around Moscow, Novgorod, etc. without oil Khanty-Mansiysk and Yamalo-Nenets Autonomous Okrug.
              As if by the way, in 91 the state of Azerbaijan appeared, the borders of which were recognized by incl. and Russia.
      2. brr1
        brr1 29 September 2020 09: 22
        +6
        Quote: Oquzyurd
        "Will Azerbaijan have enough spirit?" Yes, Azerbaijan will not stop until the complete liberation of the occupied territories in 1992-94. Blitzkrieg was not initially conceived, realistic, the operations will proceed according to the command's plan. If, of course, half the way they meet Armenians with a white flag, then they will talk without further war.
        And yet, today, September 29, a meeting of the UN Security Council will take place. For the first time in many decades, after the first Karabakh war in the early 90s of the last century, a permanent UN body, which is entrusted with the main responsibility for maintaining international security, will also consider the issue of a new military escalation in Karabakh.
        Along with Estonia, Germany, which is one of the 10 non-permanent members of the UN Security Council, initiated the holding of hearings, including on Azerbaijan.
        Attention is drawn to the very formulation of the issue, voiced by Germany, which demanded that the situation in the conflict zone be considered in the context of the four UN resolutions adopted after the occupation of the Azerbaijani regions outside Nagorno-Karabakh (Nos. 822, 853, 874 and 884) demanding the unconditional withdrawal of the Armenian occupation forces from the illegally occupied territories. ...

        These are all words, I watched the Oguz news yesterday, the day before yesterday's rhetoric diminished. The task of the day was clearly not coped with on the first day, the Janissary infantry, to put it mildly, showed its inconsistency. The technical superiority begins to level off gradually. In short, Karachun you Tsereteli, as the hero of one film used to say.
  • rotmistr60
    rotmistr60 29 September 2020 04: 12
    +9
    It is understandable that the statements of both sides about the losses of the opposite side are overstated. every military action is accompanied by an information component and not in favor of the enemy, which is natural. But cadres with the destruction of b / t on both sides eloquently speak of not small losses, which will only increase with the continuation of the aggravation of the conflict. Turkey (Erdogan) only contributes to the development of this conflict. Whether the parties will be able to stop at the initial stage is a big question.
    1. Nychego
      Nychego 29 September 2020 05: 00
      15
      Quote: rotmistr60
      Whether the parties will be able to stop at the initial stage is a big question.

      And Azerbaijan (and of course, Turkey standing above it) has no reason to stop so far. They did not then conceive and prepare this company in order to stop at the very beginning, and even taking into account the fact that the enemy has not yet demonstrated anything outstanding, threatening to reverse its course.
      It was Peskov who chewed about peace yesterday, and Erdogan clearly and clearly stated: the war is just, the goal is to make Artsakh Karabakh again.
      1. svoit
        svoit 29 September 2020 12: 27
        +5
        Most likely, a stop will still occur, either when goals are achieved, or when opportunities are exhausted, whichever comes first.
      2. perm23
        perm23 29 September 2020 13: 49
        +1
        losses will stop and Turkey and Azerbaijan.
    2. akropin
      akropin 29 September 2020 12: 40
      +2
      In my opinion, the initial stage has already been passed. Now a serious drawling story begins. Apparently, the batch started very serious.
  • Revolver
    Revolver 29 September 2020 04: 14
    17
    Have already zarabakhali all. And who would arrange for both of them to enforce peace. UN? It seems to be only good for a talking shop.
    1. Nychego
      Nychego 29 September 2020 05: 10
      11
      Quote: Nagan
      And who would arrange for both of them to enforce peace.

      And someone arranged for Turkey "peace enforcement" in Idlib, Libya?
      The company in Karabakh is another war against Turkey to strengthen its status as a regional power.
      1. Whirlwind
        Whirlwind 29 September 2020 10: 12
        10
        Turkey is a member of NATO, which is dominated by the United States. And let someone prove that this military conflict is not beneficial to the United States, but rather a large-scale war on the southern borders of Russia, especially the former Soviet republics of the USSR, the successor of which is Russia, which seeks to recreate a UNION state within the borders of the Soviet Union. And this is death for the unipolar US empire.
        That is why the Anglo-Saxons resist with all their might, including dividing and playing off the peoples of the former USSR, in order to continue to rule on the ruins of Russia. Sultan Erdogan to help them ...
        1. Revolver
          Revolver 29 September 2020 19: 36
          0
          Quote: Whirlwind
          Turkey is a member of NATO, which is dominated by the United States.

          Quote: Whirlwind
          That is why the Anglo-Saxons

          A little something so immediately Anglo-Saxons? Thanks also for not dragging the world Zionist conspiracy.
          I agree that the Turks are muddying the waters. But Islamist Erdogan has always had a tense relationship with Trump, primarily due to Trump's support for Israel. Erdogan's support for Islamist militants in Syria and Iraq also did not contribute to mutual friendship, to the point that ideas about expelling Turkey from NATO were thrown in the press. Turkey's F-35 deliveries were canceled. And now Trump, on the eve of the elections, has not given up an extra war all the more. And Elizabeth is also not up to it, she would have to deal with her children, grandchildren, and a scandalous daughter-in-law.
          Now, if the shitcrats win, they can support the Turks. Recently, Muslims have entered the politically correct list of racial and sexual minorities that true liberals should support. So if Erdogan manages to present this to them as a conflict between aggressive Christianity and oppressed suffering Muslims, there is a chance.
          1. Whirlwind
            Whirlwind 30 September 2020 06: 08
            +1
            You tell these tales about Trump and Elizabeth to the children on the lawn. Their CIA, MI6 - there is a plug in every barrel, especially on BV, to a heap and a MOSSAD. And there is no Zionist conspiracy. There is a plan for the creation of the great Israil from the Nile to the Euphrates with the capital in Jerusalem, where the third temple will be recreated where the Moshiach should appear. Because of this plan, the Zionists put the whole world on their ears in a regime of controlled chaos and they wanted to crash Erdogan, so that it didn’t interfere, but it didn’t work out ... For this, the Kurds are double-edged and Erdogan no doubt understands this, therefore he drives them where maybe ... So I got to NK because the headquarters of the Kurdistan Workers' Party settled there, and the ambassador of the "peacemaker" Trump with an embassy of 2500 operates in Yerevan !!! diplomats of the arsonists of the Caucasus ...
            Most likely, not Erdogan, but the thoroughly false media of the Naglo-Saxons will present this war as a conflict between aggressive Christianity and oppressed suffering Muslims, and they will also drag in a "newcomer" again.
            Look at the root, dear ...
            1. dSK
              dSK 30 September 2020 10: 10
              +1
              Quote: Whirlwind
              Look at the root, dear ...

              Objective reality +++.
    2. Mar.Tirah
      Mar.Tirah 29 September 2020 09: 38
      +3
      Quote: Nagan
      And who would arrange for both of them to enforce peace. UN?

      Hardly. The Soviet army could calm them down, as it did in the late 80s. Calmed them so that they were afraid to speak for 30 years, despite her death. Alas, modern Russia cannot, it is tied with a deceitful friendship with Turkey, and fear of new sanctions for unnecessary body movements.
      1. Nikolay73
        Nikolay73 29 September 2020 12: 46
        +4
        No, let's go without Russia ... let them drag themselves by their forelocks, maybe they will come to their senses ...
  • Catfish
    Catfish 29 September 2020 04: 18
    22
    Armenians are Christians. Azerbaijanis are Muslims, and I will not go into details here, as we call them, they will be banned immediately for "inciting". And it's not even a matter of faith, it's a matter of oil, and this problem will be solved by the same person who fiddles with money both with them and, unfortunately, in our country. It is a pity for people, for those who are killed on both sides.
    1. Grandfather
      Grandfather 29 September 2020 04: 46
      +5
      The Armenian ambassador to the Russian Federation pointed out the intention of Yerevan to use the Iskander-M OTRK in the event that Turkish F-16 fighters are involved in the conflict. Apparently, we are talking about a strike with operational-tactical missiles against strategic targets located in Turkey.
      this is not good at all ...
      1. Nikolaevich I
        Nikolaevich I 29 September 2020 19: 12
        -1
        Quote: Dead Day
        Yerevan's intention to use Iskander-M OTRK ...

        Hello, garage! Iskander-M is not in service with Yerevan!
        1. Nikolaevich I
          Nikolaevich I 30 September 2020 14: 33
          0
          "Klava, I'm lying ..." from the "erudition" of the "visitors" IN! I repeat once again ... there is no Iskander-M OTRK in service with the Armenian armed forces! Armenia has Iskander-E in service! And these are 2 "Odessa" differences!
    2. Korsar4
      Korsar4 29 September 2020 04: 47
      +7
      The question is how spontaneously it arose. I don't believe in chance.

      The year 2020 has not yet laid out all the surprises on the table.
      1. Nychego
        Nychego 29 September 2020 05: 21
        16
        Quote: Korsar4
        The question is how spontaneously it arose.

        Obviously not spontaneous. The operation has been developed by Azerbaijan and Turkey, and the forces and means have been prepared.
        I dare to assume, as soon as we were convinced that with Pashinyan's coming to power, Armenia had lost a good chunk of support from the Russian rulers, so they began a dense and concrete preparation of the unfolding company.
        1. Oquzyurd
          Oquzyurd 29 September 2020 05: 29
          +7
          Russia cannot and should not defend Karabakh for Armenia, the former head of the Israeli service Nativ (an institution created to communicate with the Jews of the Soviet Union and Eastern Europe, coordinate the struggle for their right to repatriate and organization of their departure to Israel) Yakov Kedmi. Write about this "Vesti.ru".
          According to Kedmi, one of the reasons for the aggravation of the situation is the attempt to reorient Armenia, which has been taking place over the past 15 years. “The Armenian state has weakened. After Nikol Pashinyan came to power, relations with Russia moved to another stage. The Armenian prime minister does not dare to sever relations with Russia. But in Azerbaijan and Turkey they felt that Russia's support for Armenia decreased. "

          The Israeli expert emphasizes that if the Armenian army does not have enough strength, it can lose Karabakh: "Let the Armenians say thanks to those who turned their backs on Russia."

          Kedmi believes that Russia is not obliged to intervene in this military conflict, but will not let it encroach on the independence of Armenia. “Russian planes over Yerevan are an allusion to this. But we are not obliged to get involved in the conflict in Karabakh, ”he said.
          1. brr1
            brr1 29 September 2020 09: 30
            +1
            Quote: Oquzyurd
            Russia cannot and should not defend Karabakh for Armenia, the former head of the Israeli service Nativ (an institution created to communicate with the Jews of the Soviet Union and Eastern Europe, coordinate the struggle for their right to repatriate and organization of their departure to Israel) Yakov Kedmi. Write about this "Vesti.ru".
            According to Kedmi, one of the reasons for the aggravation of the situation is the attempt to reorient Armenia, which has been taking place over the past 15 years. “The Armenian state has weakened. After Nikol Pashinyan came to power, relations with Russia moved to another stage. The Armenian prime minister does not dare to sever relations with Russia. But in Azerbaijan and Turkey they felt that Russia's support for Armenia decreased. "

            The Israeli expert emphasizes that if the Armenian army does not have enough strength, it can lose Karabakh: "Let the Armenians say thanks to those who turned their backs on Russia."

            Kedmi believes that Russia is not obliged to intervene in this military conflict, but will not let it encroach on the independence of Armenia. “Russian planes over Yerevan are an allusion to this. But we are not obliged to get involved in the conflict in Karabakh, ”he said.

            Kedmi says everything is correct, just that Russia's interests go beyond the borders of Karabakh, Armenia and Azerbaijan. This is a great war for the warriors and the Ayestonians, but for Russia, a conflict that could affect its strategic positions. Nothing personal, just business.
        2. Korsar4
          Korsar4 29 September 2020 05: 36
          16
          I agree. We have already seen in our memory more than once how the habit of sitting on two chairs at once ends.
      2. military_cat
        military_cat 29 September 2020 06: 00
        0
        Quote: Korsar4
        I don't believe in chance.

        If you think that this is evidence of discernment, then it is in vain. This is a cognitive distortion, called https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apophenia Many things happen by chance, and if you discard this possibility in advance, the picture of the world will be inadequate.
        1. Korsar4
          Korsar4 29 September 2020 06: 32
          +3
          Thanks. No, I'm not trying to be "Discerning Bill."

          I admit that a lot can be chaotic. But how many examples of "Majesty Chance" can you give?

          The choice of road at a fork is often predetermined.
          I don't know what the philosophers are saying.

          And on the topic of the forum thread - the events are certainly not accidental.
          1. military_cat
            military_cat 29 September 2020 06: 55
            -1
            Quote: Korsar4
            But how many examples of "Majesty Chance" can you give?
            Downed Boeing over Tehran. Explosion in Beirut. These are only large, obvious ones and only recently (and where were those who wanted to find someone's will). And so - full of them.

            The choice of turning at a fork may be predetermined, but the very need to make the choice right now may be the result of chance. A stray bullet, a misunderstood order. Well, it may not be, of course.
            1. Korsar4
              Korsar4 29 September 2020 06: 59
              +2
              Let's see how accidental the explosion in Beirut is.

              Postulate: Violation of safety rules leads to problems. Quite a typical example.

              And we also see the pattern on the carpet, not the inside of it.

              Here, probably, there is also a question of definitions - what can be considered random and what cannot.

              I thought a little on this topic from the point of view of biology. This is a very difficult question.
              1. military_cat
                military_cat 29 September 2020 07: 01
                0
                They are random in the sense that there is no will behind them, striving for precisely this development of events.
                1. Korsar4
                  Korsar4 29 September 2020 07: 10
                  +1
                  Lack of conscious will - I admit it. Often conspiracy theories are not convincing. But this is only a partial version of the definition of randomness.
    3. Pilat2009
      Pilat2009 29 September 2020 05: 00
      +3
      Quote: Sea Cat
      Armenians are Christians. Azerbaijanis are Muslims, and I will not go into details here, as we call them, they will be banned immediately for "inciting". And it's not even a matter of faith, it's a matter of oil, and this problem will be solved by the same person who fiddles with money both with them and, unfortunately, in our country. It is a pity for people, for those who are killed on both sides.

      What does oil and Karabakh have to do with it? There is no oil in Karabakh. The Armenians seized, in addition to Karabakh, the still not sickly territory of Azerbaijan. All negotiations did not lead to anything. No self-respecting state will put up with this
      1. akims
        akims 29 September 2020 09: 56
        +1
        Not in Karabakh, but in Baku. Nobody will beat Turkey, but Azerbaijan’s oil and gas fields are quite good. And here we must remember how this ended for the Saudi Aramko after the Houthis strike, and who, as a result, became the beneficiary ...
        1. Pilat2009
          Pilat2009 29 September 2020 10: 49
          -1
          Quote: akims
          Not in Karabakh, but in Baku. Nobody will beat Turkey, but Azerbaijan’s oil and gas fields are quite good. And here we must remember how this ended for the Saudi Aramko after the Houthis strike, and who, as a result, became the beneficiary ...

          Firstly, look at what my post relates to, and secondly, mutual strikes on infrastructure will lead to a complete paralysis of the economies of both countries. Are Armenia and Azerbaijan ready for this? Armenia still has a chance to distance itself from entering the conflict, the war has not been officially declared and Karabakh is not part of Armenia.
    4. akropin
      akropin 29 September 2020 12: 54
      +1
      Oil is a market commodity, it is in demand today, no tomorrow. And if a deep hotbed of tension arises in the Caucasus, then everyone will catch up there - both Georgia and Ossetia. And then only the border of the Russian Federation.
    5. perm23
      perm23 29 September 2020 13: 52
      +1
      where does the bastards. even if there is oil and there are those who want to make money on gay. this is how this world works. but about people. as it is well said by Achilles in the film TROY. so let the kings fight among themselves. so here. nge the soldiers would have gone to fight nothing would have happened .. and people went and for what.
      1. dSK
        dSK 30 September 2020 10: 17
        0
        "Who benefits from?" - an objective question.
  • Moskovit
    Moskovit 29 September 2020 04: 57
    13
    It is interesting why the Azerbaijani side does not disclose its losses. Are they not there?
    The Armenian military leadership also has questions - why such an operation was screwed up and why nothing has changed in terms of countering drones since summer. And where are the friends of the democratic Pashinyan. Nobody is harnessed to Armenia. Turkey has become a wall for Azerbaijan.
    1. Korsar4
      Korsar4 29 September 2020 05: 02
      +3
      Slogans have always been far from real Power and Power.
    2. Oquzyurd
      Oquzyurd 29 September 2020 05: 06
      -15 qualifying.
      This time, Azerbaijan will not count its dead, as it is a patriotic war for the nation. No one cries or will cry this time. The heart of Azerbaijan in the Karabakh will be freed from the hands of the occupier this time, despite the loss. although navryatli, if over the past 27 years they did not understand) this is from the Armenian side, the less losses it will end up with, for everyone.
      1. Moskovit
        Moskovit 29 September 2020 05: 45
        +9
        It looks more like the losses are so great that they can raise questions in the Azerbaijani society. Maybe not everyone wants to give up their children for the sake of the interests of the current government. Azerbaijan developed quietly without NK and would develop further.
        1. Oquzyurd
          Oquzyurd 29 September 2020 06: 03
          -6
          The Caucasian countries are small, they know everything and hide something, even if you want, it will not work. It's about motivation, about the accumulated anger for 27 years. With long imitation-negotiations, a whole people, a country, have been around their fingers since 1994. It's time to say -Enough. All the same, they are born once and die once. But in this life we ​​must live with honor. In Karabakh our honor was hurt in 1992-94, with the murder of our children, women and old people, our holy places, cemeteries, houses were destroyed , cities and villages, one fifth of our homeland is occupied. What, the Armenians thought we would leave it that way, swallow all the deeds? What nation, respecting itself, will forget all this?
          Knowing the history of events, mood, reasons, I say: this time Azerbaijan will not count its dead, as this is a patriotic war for the nation. Nobody cries and will not cry this time. The heart of Azerbaijan will be in Karabakh this time, despite the losses. freed from the hands of the occupier.
          1. Dude
            Dude 29 September 2020 06: 53
            12
            Karabakh the heart of Azerbaijan
            Well, here you probably gave up too much! It turns out strange - if Nagorno-Karabakh is the heart of Azerbaijan, how is it that the majority of the population there, at least from the Early Middle Ages, to this day, are Armenians?
            1. Oquzyurd
              Oquzyurd 29 September 2020 07: 08
              -14 qualifying.
              "Is the majority of the population there, at least from the Early Middle Ages, to this day, Armenians?" You probably learned history from the "Armenian Globe"?
              1. Dude
                Dude 29 September 2020 07: 20
                14
                You probably learned history from the "Armenian Globe"?
                By no means, according to various sources. Most of them note that the Armenian population prevailed on the territory of Nagorno-Karabakh, and the Azerbaijani population on the territory of Plain Karabakh (data for the 18-19 centuries, in particular).
                Administratively, as far as I remember, without getting into reference books, at different times this territory was under the rule of the Armenian state, Persia, the Ottoman Empire, then the Russian Empire, and later the Soviet Union.
                If you can correct me, then I will listen to you with interest (I am not an expert in the history of Transcaucasia).
                1. Oquzyurd
                  Oquzyurd 29 September 2020 07: 38
                  -10 qualifying.
                  "Persia, the Ottoman Empire, then the Russian Empire, later the Soviet Union." Yes it's true.
                  "was under the rule of the Armenian state" What, can you say?
                  I will answer for you, no. The Armenians fantasized that about 2100 years ago, the living King Tigran seized these lands and held them for 15 years, although he himself was subordinate to the Roman Empire. This is the whole connection of Karabakh with the Armenian "statehood".
                  And information about the population of Karabakh, about the ethnic composition over the past 200 years is publicly available. The majority in the 19th century were Turks (Azerbaijanis)
                  If you are interested in the history of Karabakh, then I recommend taking a look at the treaties
                  1.Kurekchay treaty - treatise dated May 14, 1805
                  2.Gulistan Peace Treaty of 1813
                  3.Turkmanchay peace treaty of 1828. And if you see in these treaties, find an Armenian surname or first name, then you will be given the Nobel Prize)
                  For one thing, read A.S. Griboyedov's notes on the resettlement of Armenians from Persia to Karabakh, who at that time worked as Russia's ambassador to Persia.
                  1. Dude
                    Dude 29 September 2020 09: 53
                    17
                    "was under the rule of the Armenian state" What, can you say? I’ll answer for you, no. ”The Armenians fantasized that about 2100 years ago, the living King Tigran seized these lands and held them for 15 years, although he himself was subordinate to the Roman Empire.
                    But there is no need to answer for me, I myself can quite do it. It is hardly reasonable to deny the existence of Great, or, in other words, Greater Armenia (as well as other historical Armenian states). There are a lot of references to its existence in historical sources, and those that are involved in Armenian historiography are difficult to suspect. So you accuse the chronicler Nestor of pro-Armenian falsification wassat It turns out that you then taught history from the Azerbaijani globe.
                    The difficulty, for an amateur, which I am, in the study of the Armenian-Azerbaijani question is that both sides fabulously exaggerate their greatness, while belittling the Donеleaking the status of the opponent. Committed work - a dime a dozen. Truth, IMHO, as usual, somewhere in between.
                    1. The comment was deleted.
                    2. Scorpio05
                      Scorpio05 29 September 2020 22: 29
                      0
                      Great Armenia is an incorrect translation from the English "the Greater Armenia", there was also Little Armenia - "the Minor Armenia", Seleucid (Macedonian) provinces with a Semitic Akkado-Assyrian name. The name Armenia is Assyrian, as I said, and initially had nothing to do with the Khays (ancestors of today's Armenians), later the toponym Armenia was borrowed by the Armenians as an ethnonym for a whole host of tribes (including the Khays) of various origins, mainly Semitic, adopted as a common language the language of the minority - the Indo-European tribe-Mushki, who joined them. Therefore, the racial type of the Armenians was called the Assyroidism throughout their history, i.e. typically Semitic (later called the Armenoid type).
                      Professor of the History of Western Asia, the founder of Armenian Studies in America, Professor Nina Garsoyan (herself an Armenian by birth), as well as the Soviet scientist prof. Anahit Perikhanyan assert (Iranik) that there were no Armenian kings of ancient Armenia at all, all the rulers of Armenia of the pre-Islamic period were Iranians, including Tigran II Arteshisid - Persian, and the Parthians of Arshakids, this very Tiridat III Arshakid - a Parthian under whom Armenia allegedly converted to Christianity. All of them were the conquerors and enslavers of the ancestors of the Armenians and did not express any national Armenian idea, since they did not care at all about the conquered smerds, practically slaves. What do you want, an antique slave state. According to Tacitus (Annals), the inhabitants of Armenia generally hated and envied their enslavers, the Parthians, the Arshakids. Moreover, the Arshakid brothers ruled then in Parthia itself (the mother state) - the kingdom of the first level of power (according to Prof. Theodor Mommsen), in Atropatene (Azerbaijan) or Media - the kingdom of the second level of power, as well as in Albania, Iberia, Armenia, only in 18 (!) kingdoms of the third level of power.
                      What is "great" Armenia, what is the national "Armenian" state, what is their life in the end?))
                  2. Dude
                    Dude 29 September 2020 10: 02
                    +6
                    1.Kurekchay treaty - treatise dated May 14, 1805
                    2.Gulistan Peace Treaty of 1813
                    3.Turkmanchay peace treaty of 1828. And if you see in these treaties, find an Armenian surname or first name, then you will be given the Nobel Prize)

                    I don't need the Nobel Prize - it has discredited itself a lot lately.
                    What does the nationality of the signatories have to do with it? These treaties fixed the consequences of Persia's defeat in the war, naturally, they were signed by their officials.
                  3. akropin
                    akropin 29 September 2020 13: 00
                    +5
                    Your ardor is understandable. Only everything will end as always - a pile of male corpses, over which women are sobbing, unwillingness to continue the slaughter, a peace treaty. Probably not destiny to start right away with a contract. Themselves could not agree up to this moment, and then it will not work, for anybody there will be someone to reconcile. Only simple dead men will not care. And they are dying now because of the attendants of local clans.
              2. perm23
                perm23 29 September 2020 13: 56
                +2
                Until 1918, the Azerbaijanis did not have their own statehood, and unlike neighboring Georgians and Armenians,
          2. Moskovit
            Moskovit 29 September 2020 07: 13
            +4
            Everyone is tired of these agitation. What are the losses of the Azerbaijani side?
            1. Oquzyurd
              Oquzyurd 29 September 2020 07: 46
              -8
              MO will tell you if it considers it necessary.
              1. Maximilian37
                Maximilian37 29 September 2020 10: 35
                +3
                What is your division called? I also want to work and surf the Internet)
                1. Oquzyurd
                  Oquzyurd 29 September 2020 10: 37
                  -3
                  Voluntary Azerbaijani yes
            2. ashot1973
              ashot1973 29 September 2020 22: 12
              0
              What are the losses of the Azerbaijani side?

              outcome b / d until 29.09.20 21:00 Moscow time -
              B / loss of the Azerbaijani armed forces:
              armored vehicles-137 units. (tanks, infantry fighting vehicles, armored personnel carriers, heavy engineering equipment, etc.)
              UAV - 72 units (including 1-bayraktar TB),
              combat helicopters - 7 units (3 units for today),
              combat aircraft - 1 unit,
              small artillery and automobile equipment no longer count ...
              manpower - more than 750 military units (including high-ranking officers, Major General Mais Shukur oglu Barkhudarov),
          3. miru mir
            miru mir 29 September 2020 13: 13
            +1
            crying for losses is not averse
          4. Okolotochny
            Okolotochny 29 September 2020 15: 53
            +7
            In Karabakh, our honor was hurt in 1992-94, with the murder of our children, women and old people, our holy places, cemeteries, houses, cities and villages were destroyed.

            For the sake of fairness, it must be admitted that both sides were doing this - both Azerbaijanis and Armenians.
      2. perm23
        perm23 29 September 2020 13: 55
        +2
        it is easy to write about losses until they touch you personally. So it is not necessary to speak for people. How big losses will go, so stop right away.
      3. cat Rusich
        cat Rusich 29 September 2020 19: 55
        +1
        I can remind the majority of Armenians and Azerbaijanis live outside Armenia and Azerbaijan - which Fatherland will be protected by Azerbaijanis from Iran and Armenians from France (for example).
        Quote: Oquzyurd
        This time Azerbaijan will not count its dead, as this is a patriotic war for the nation. Nobody cries and will not cry this time. Karabakh is the heart of Azerbaijan.
        Let us recall Pyrrhus Eakidovich from the family of the kings of Epirus - he lost the war with the Roman Republic due to heavy losses ...
    3. sentaniel
      sentaniel 29 September 2020 13: 27
      -2
      According to some reports, information about the upcoming operation and the exact routes and plans of the attack was leaked by the head of the General Staff of Azerbaijan to Russia. So, judging by the losses that the Azerbaijani side suffered on the first day, they were ready to meet them.
  • LiSiCyn
    LiSiCyn 29 September 2020 06: 18
    13
    Quote: Black_Jacket
    Perhaps it will be so, but by that time Azerbaijan can make decent progress.

    The key word is maybe. Or maybe not advance. Judging by the maps, we haven't made much progress yet. Without aviation, UAVs alone, the war cannot be won. Especially in the mountains.
    1. Oquzyurd
      Oquzyurd 29 September 2020 06: 32
      -9
      Don't rush things. In 2-3 days it will be clear how much progress has been made. Even now there are more advances than on the map. Much is not announced, since clearing the area from (forest and mountain) enemy forces takes time associated with caution.
      1. Andrey VOV
        Andrey VOV 29 September 2020 06: 53
        23
        Listen, in my opinion you are an Azerbaijani, for sure in Moscow ... go to the front and take all your people, or is it a pity to leave food city?, And less pathos, I don't believe you anyway
        1. Oquzyurd
          Oquzyurd 29 September 2020 06: 57
          -7
          Listen, first of all, yes, I am Azerbaijani, and here at the forum I have spoken about this more than once. Do not believe, I will not try to persuade. Where I am and what I am doing is not your ... business.
          1. Andrey VOV
            Andrey VOV 29 September 2020 07: 05
            15
            Well, go ahead for the Motherland, is it a draft age? Or are you a political activist here .. that's all, the discussion is over, in any case, blood is pouring, but I'm sure no solution will be found, too big a knot, even cutting it will not dare
            1. Oquzyurd
              Oquzyurd 29 September 2020 07: 13
              +1
              I’m not young, I’m an old man, but if you need me, I’ll go too. 1992-93 I’ve already been there in the trenches, I’ll go again, without hesitation.
      2. ashot1973
        ashot1973 29 September 2020 22: 18
        -1
        Do not rush things

        Well said - don't rush things! Didn't yours reach Ankara? soldier
    2. GELEZNII_KAPUT
      GELEZNII_KAPUT 29 September 2020 07: 52
      +2
      Quote: LiSiCyn
      The key word is maybe. Or maybe not advance. Judging by the maps, we haven't made much progress yet. Without aviation, UAVs alone, the war cannot be won. Especially in the mountains.

      Yes, and they will find a control on the UAV, and the S-300 must be filled up, Armenia must be attacked, and this is a completely different movie!
  • Avior
    Avior 29 September 2020 06: 56
    +3
    As far as can be understood, the fighting is not taking place in NKarabakh itself, but in the regions of Azerbaijan, which serve as a corridor from Karabakh to Armenia, and which are controlled by the Armenians. If the Azerbaijanis take control of them, they may further demand an armistice, after which Karabakh will be cut off and completely isolated.
    1. Andrey VOV
      Andrey VOV 29 September 2020 07: 06
      +2
      One hundred will give one more reason after a while to break through the corridor again or hold it ... a vicious circle
      1. Avior
        Avior 29 September 2020 08: 17
        0
        It is more difficult to break through again politically, this is the undoubted territory of Azerbaijan, and the Armenians need it only because Karabakh is an enclave completely surrounded by Azerbaijanis.
        That is, Azerbaijan needs to return its lands and cut off Karabakh.
        1. svoit
          svoit 29 September 2020 13: 05
          -1
          And yet, once again about "their lands", no one disputes that they belong to Azerbaijan, it is just that after the Sumgait events, the Armenians moved to them, where there were already many of them, this is just internal migration. The fact that they do not yet strongly want to obey the central authorities and have Armenia's support in this is a completely different question. It turns out that this is just a matter within the Azerbaijani dialogue and it must be resolved peacefully, if, of course, there is a desire to leave Karabakh as part of Azerbaijan.
          1. Avior
            Avior 29 September 2020 14: 54
            0
            As far as I understand, Nagorno-Karabakh does not formally claim these lands, especially Armenia, they are purely Azerbaijanis. If Azerbaijan gains control over them, then they will represent local representatives of those who lived there before the beginning of the 90s, and will agree with them peacefully. Armenians will be automatically forced out into Karabakh or Armenia
    2. Oquzyurd
      Oquzyurd 29 September 2020 07: 19
      -5
      Military operations are underway in the regions, but not yet in those that connect Karabakh with Armenia by routes (Lachin and Kelbejar). The fighting is going beyond strategic heights (for example, the highest mountain Murov has already been taken under control.) And for the southern regions of Fuzuli and Jabrayil. A day ago, 7 villages were liberated in these areas.
      1. Hwostatij
        Hwostatij 29 September 2020 08: 37
        +3
        A day ago, 7 villages were liberated in these areas

        And then what are you going to do with the conquered territories? I'm not asking in the first thread, none of Azerbaijan's active sympathizers has answered.
        1. Oquzyurd
          Oquzyurd 29 September 2020 08: 46
          -5
          "conquered territories" Or rather, returned. More than 700 thousand refugees from these territories have been waiting for 27 years to return to their yards (there are no houses, the neighbors "designers" dismantled them before the foundation). These are about 828 small and large settlements (there were) of Azerbaijan in Nagorno-Karabakh itself and the adjacent 7 regions. , the citizens of Azerbaijan in Karabakh have always been offered and even now offer to live together. I don’t know if I answered you.
          1. Mar.Tirah
            Mar.Tirah 29 September 2020 09: 58
            14
            Quote: Oquzyurd
            Armenians, citizens of Azerbaijan in Karabakh, have always been offered and even now offer to live together. I don’t know if I answered you.

            Pretty boy good Where have I already heard this? And I remembered in the country 404 and somewhere else before; - "You can promise them everything, but we will hang, hang them later." Do not take me for a great-power chauvinist, but except as a whip for both of you sides will not keep you from nationalism. Even then, during the Sumgait events, I said this to both Armenians and Azerbaijanis personally in the eyes. You will not have this world EVER, only the whip has pacified, and the ideology of the socialist state prevailed over nationality. As the USSR did. and very successfully. Alas, having ruined the country very acutely, the old sores became inflamed again.
          2. paul3390
            paul3390 29 September 2020 13: 28
            +1
            Maybe then, like, within the framework of Great Azerbaijan, at the same time you will take your own people from Russia? We already have more of them than in Baku ..
            1. Oquzyurd
              Oquzyurd 29 September 2020 13: 42
              -7
              With pleasure, send, so that they do not poke us every time. In Baku, the population is about 4 million, there will be 5-6, even better. They will not disappear, definitely. We are in the years of devastation and war in 1988-1992 in a country of seven million accepted in bulk 1 million disadvantaged refugees from Yerevan and Karabakh, 40 thousand Meskhetian Turks from Central Asia were added to them, survived nothing, no one died of hunger. This is you 140 million people do not fit in 17 million square meters .km territories, everyone bothers you. However, not everyone, the Chinese know about it. Do you understand, ethnonaki?
              1. paul3390
                paul3390 29 September 2020 13: 58
                +3
                Unfortunately, you cannot be kicked out of here with a shovel .. For except for bargaining in the markets and twirling shawarma out of cats, you do not know how and do not want to do anything, and in Azerbaijan you are above the roof of your traders. Are you going to drink tomatoes to each other?
              2. Azis
                Azis 30 September 2020 20: 27
                -1
                Quote: Oquzyurd
                In the years of devastation and war in 1988-1992, we took a rampant into the seven million country 1 million destitute refugees from Yerevan and Karabakh, 40 thousand Meskhetian Turks from Central Asia were added to them, nothing, survived, no one died of hunger.
                Thirty thousand more refugees were added from Georgia in 30-1992. These are mainly Azerbaijanis and small ethnic groups. But you are not saying how many people left the "seven million country", also not of their own free will? About the same million. And about the Meskhetian Turks - please contact the Uzbeks.
        2. Keyser soze
          Keyser soze 29 September 2020 10: 32
          12
          what are you going to do with the conquered territories?


          What can a bashibozuk do? They will cut out the throats of all Armenians and that's it.
  • English tarantas
    English tarantas 29 September 2020 07: 24
    +6
    Georgian border guards do not allow volunteers to cross the border,

    And without these ** nowhere.
  • Mimino
    Mimino 29 September 2020 07: 43
    +2
    Hopefully, it’s smart enough not to bother about Turkey.
  • the finish
    the finish 29 September 2020 07: 54
    +1
    Quote: Oquzyurd
    Listen, first of all, yes, I am Azerbaijani, and here at the forum I have spoken about this more than once. Do not believe, I will not try to persuade. Where I am and what I am doing is not your ... business.

    Why not! It is immediately obvious that the colonel is a cyber troop!
    1. Oquzyurd
      Oquzyurd 29 September 2020 08: 26
      +7
      I sometimes read stupid, sometimes deliberately distorted comments aimed at deceiving the reader about my homeland. I could pass by, but as an Azerbaijani, my conscience does not allow. I answer, I want to convey the truth that we have. Minus, sometimes insult, etc. But if at least one person will find this information useful, at least one person will understand what I mean, then it is not in vain that I devote time and energy to these records. So what you wrote is stupidity.
    2. ashot1973
      ashot1973 29 September 2020 22: 33
      +1
      It is immediately clear that the colonel of the cyber troops!

      with a cyber helmet on your head ... laughing laughing laughing
  • imobile2008
    imobile2008 29 September 2020 08: 15
    +2
    Quote: hrych
    Not a reply to you, but to an article that we both comment on drinks

    I would shoot for "urapatriotism" and untimely modernization of the complexes! It is better to identify the reasons now and correct them than when there will be a real war. I have written about the fact that there is no opposition against drones for a long time. But urakryakalki said that old air defense systems and new electronic warfare systems could easily cope. And this is such nonsense (I would advise the moderators to ban for this) Electronic warfare needs to be developed, but efficiency is like a breeze for a person!
  • sivuch
    sivuch 29 September 2020 08: 45
    +9
    At the same time, the data of the air defense system (Osa) are one of the main military "anti-aircraft guns" in the Russian army.
    But this is, to put it mildly, inaccurate.
    The Armenians themselves planed some kind of modernization of the Wasps on their knees, that in principle it is impossible to radically improve anything there. The wasp will not become the second torus.
  • Incvizitor
    Incvizitor 29 September 2020 09: 40
    +5
    Iskander ... You should cover them normally first.
  • Livonetc
    Livonetc 29 September 2020 09: 59
    +5
    “Thus, the Armenian ambassador to the Russian Federation pointed out the intention of Yerevan to use the Iskander-M OTRK in the event that Turkish F-16 fighters are involved in the conflict. Apparently, we are talking about striking with operational-tactical missiles against strategic targets located in Turkey. . "

    The ambassador of Armenia is talking about delirium.
    They will immediately get rid of Turkey so that Russia will be tortured to rake it out.

    And Azerbaijan will not see Karabakh.
    No matter how much they perform "heroic deeds" in the struggle for "historical justice".

    But there is no prospect, both in the near and in the medium term, there is no settlement of the conflict and is not expected.
    So it will continue from exacerbation to exacerbation.

    The rams have grown horns and are ready to cross them until they lose consciousness.
    Although there is no question of any adequate consciousness in this case.
  • iouris
    iouris 29 September 2020 11: 36
    -3
    Value judgment in conditions of information deficit.
    The Armenian leadership decided to change the "roof", referring to "force majeure circumstances." Karabakh is a bargaining chip. This means that Transcaucasia goes either under the USA or under the US operator - Turkey (Erdogan's independence from Washington is greatly exaggerated). How do you (us) like the US and NATO naval bases on the Caspian Sea? The timing is well chosen.
    Or you have to fight for peace and friendship. RF is an empire or a trading house that sells everything.
  • voyaka uh
    voyaka uh 29 September 2020 11: 50
    +4
    Tanks continue to destroy from Turkish drones effortlessly.
    From the first rocket to the engine. What's in Idlib, what's here.
    1. Florian geyer
      Florian geyer 29 September 2020 12: 33
      +2
      These are not rockets, but bombs. In general, the drone + bomb method is not the most effective against the background of the fact that for a long time there are planning cluster bombs with anti-tank warheads and anti-tank cluster munitions for MLRS. Look at pictures from such a place - Zelenopolye
      1. voyaka uh
        voyaka uh 29 September 2020 12: 45
        +2
        The drone is not capable of raising the bomb. It's hard for him.
        For drones, special light missiles with a small warhead are being developed.
        The effect is achieved by high accuracy of hitting the weak point of armored vehicles.
        1. Oquzyurd
          Oquzyurd 29 September 2020 13: 00
          -1
          Do you have any predictions about this collision? How, when and where can they stop, or will they stop?
          1. Florian geyer
            Florian geyer 29 September 2020 19: 09
            +1
            Nothing will happen. They shoot and disperse when the politicians agree on something. And when they agree, we will see who organized all this (it is quite possible that ours agreed with the Turks to put pressure on Pashinyan with the hands of Azerbaijan).
            So far, the scale of the DB looks like reconnaissance in force with small forces supported by means of reinforcement of the divisional - corps level under the control of the operational-tactical level headquarters. Probing the defense with tactical, well, if you're lucky with operational-tactical goals. Now, if all this pampering with a drone, etc. ends, and at least an army is deployed and "thundering fire, sparkling with the brilliance of steel ..." when aviation appears, then something serious has begun
        2. Florian geyer
          Florian geyer 29 September 2020 18: 54
          +2
          In this case, small gliding bombs are used on Turkish drones. And by the way, all of them (aerial bombs and missiles) fall not into the "weak spot" of the tank, but into its engine compartment, which is explained by thermal homing in the final section of the trajectory. There is also a simple explanation - if the operator guides the ammunition to the target manually, then (a) in most cases this requires entering the enemy's air defense zone and significantly increases the risk of hitting the aircraft itself - the helicopter-unmanned aerial vehicle and (b) under normal countermeasures, electronic warfare leads to the loss of ammunition control. Therefore, at the "end of the flight" they have thermal homing on tanks.
          1. voyaka uh
            voyaka uh 29 September 2020 19: 23
            +1
            "not into the" weak spot "of the tank, but into its engine compartment,
            which is explained by thermal homing at the final section "///
            ----
            This is not true. Tanks and self-propelled guns standing in positions were perfectly amazed.
            with off, cold engines.
            And you could see how the operator chooses where to hit: the engine or the hatch on the turret.
            1. Florian geyer
              Florian geyer 30 September 2020 11: 46
              0
              No. The operator does not lead the bomb / rocket to the very target, choosing a place on the tank, but puts a marker on the target, and in fact, in its middle, as it is more convenient.
              Cold tanks are also not guided manually by a rocket (this is not an ATGM), but the target is illuminated with a laser either from the ground or from the air, and the rocket itself is guided by the mark. But it basically does not work well, because from the air, 7 km away with a laser, you cannot illuminate it, closer - they will shoot down, and from the ground it is easier to hit with an ATGM and make your legs.
              Therefore, all this is semi-active laser homing, it is not for mass use on tanks, but for sabotage operations.
              In mass anti-tank ammunition, there will still be thermal homing. And by the way, during the day, even a "cold" tank in the heat is very different from the environment.
              In this regard, the operator's task is to select the targets on the screen with a check mark and and fire in that direction, and the missiles will orient themselves in place.
              1. voyaka uh
                voyaka uh 30 September 2020 12: 32
                -1
                There is no thermal guidance at all. Throw ice on the engine
                the rocket will hit him anyway. smile
                TV channel guidance, optical. Video camera in the missile seeker.
                1. Florian geyer
                  Florian geyer 30 September 2020 13: 26
                  +2
                  Never optical. The UMTAS ATGM is hung on Bayraktary, and they have 2 versions - with infrared homing and the second version with laser. And gliding bombs MAM-L and MAM-c (the same UMTAS only without an engine) with laser homing.




                  As for the operator's guidance, I have already said that in the conditions of electronic warfare and air defense counteraction, it does not work
                  1. voyaka uh
                    voyaka uh 30 September 2020 13: 36
                    +2
                    Thanks for the info. I was sure that the Turks already had TV cameras
                    in the GOS.
  • Seaflame
    Seaflame 29 September 2020 13: 26
    +5
    It seems that Erdogan is tired of the problems and obstacles from the Russian Federation in Syria and Libya, and he decided to create a problem for the Russian Federation in the zone of its national interests (the territory of the former USSR). In this conflict, my sympathies are more inclined towards Yerevan, although it is better if this massacre ends sooner and blood stops shedding.
    1. OgnennyiKotik
      OgnennyiKotik 29 September 2020 13: 30
      +3
      Quote: Seaflame
      Erdogan was tired of the problems and obstacles from the Russian Federation in Syria and Libya, and he decided to create a problem for the Russian Federation in the zone of its national interests

      Maybe vice versa? Erdogan decided to create problems for Russia in addition to Syria and Libya in Karabakh. Syria, Libya, Transcaucasia are the zone of interests of the USSR / Russia. Turkey for 70 years did not even think to meddle in these regions. Now they climb everywhere. I would not be surprised that hostilities will begin soon in Syria or Libya.
      1. iouris
        iouris 29 September 2020 14: 21
        -10 qualifying.
        We'll have to leave Syria.
        1. Seaflame
          Seaflame 29 September 2020 16: 46
          +2
          It is better then to provide all possible assistance to a member of the CSTO)
      2. Scorpio05
        Scorpio05 29 September 2020 23: 15
        -3
        And what does Erdogan have to do with it? Nothing that the armed forces of Armenia in the middle of Azerbaijan, now it is in the Fizuli region, this is almost the center of Azerbaijan (not even Nagorno-Karabakh), there are battles. 30 years suffered, How much longer can you tolerate foreign armed forces on your territory?
        1. Seaflame
          Seaflame 30 September 2020 16: 12
          0
          The majority of Russians, of course, are rooting for Armenia and wish them victory.
  • zombirusrev
    zombirusrev 29 September 2020 13: 59
    +1
    In the event of an escalation of the conflict on the side of Armenia, not only Russia can fit in, but also Iran, China, and do not be surprised by Belarus. Such are the things. This is not about Azerbaijan, but about his older friend.
    1. Scorpio05
      Scorpio05 29 September 2020 22: 56
      -1
      Nicaragua was forgotten with Mongolia.
  • Vladimir61
    Vladimir61 29 September 2020 14: 30
    +1
    To a certain extent, Ankara acts as a deterrent, but Yerevan is ready to fend off this threat as well. Thus, the Armenian ambassador to the Russian Federation pointed out the intention of Yerevan to use the Iskander-M OTRK in the event that Turkish F-16 fighters are involved in the conflict. Apparently, we are talking about a strike with operational-tactical missiles against strategic targets located in Turkey.
    I did not understand who and when announced or hinted at such a possibility. It was clear from the statements that we were talking about objects in Azerbaijan, no more.
  • Victorm
    Victorm 29 September 2020 16: 40
    -4
    Quote: Maz
    Ayzers clearly do not cope with the task set by the Turks ...

    The Armenian Defense Ministry made a laconic comment on this video: "the enemy is running in panic"
    You, Armenians, your megalomania and ruined laughing You have such a great opinion of yourself that only Turkey should be your opponents, although there is a pale shadow against the background of Azerbaijan.
    Well, the guys got into an ambush, why should they stand in place? ... They tried to hide behind the ridge, alas, most died, Allah rehmet elesin, sehidlerin mekani cennetdir (God rest their souls, their place is in Paradise), then what? We'll pay, we don't even need to wash them, their blood is purer than spring water and holier than the source of zam-zam, we will bury them as heroes. This is a war, many of you still do not understand that the jokes are over and Azerbaijan will no longer tolerate this and you will no longer be able to twist it backwards, relying on your lobbies in Russia, Europe and the United States, and pulling up the corrupt press, pocket political scientists , politicians and other confused.
    Yesterday you hit Dashkesan from your own territory, not from the occupied ones, apparently hoping that you could hide behind your own territory, like the territory of the CSTO. Received a reply today? - received and directly through the territory of Armenia. Well, as always, of course, no one was hurt, it's your bullets and shells, and according to your logic, we only have gases from the ass laughing

    Stop, here you are specifically, sit down, exhale and think, firstly, we, as a nation and people will not stop until your occupation corps gets out of our territory, call it whatever you want, "the NKR self-defense forces", Mars or the constellation Alpha Centauri, the coffins will go to you in Armenia. Secondly, this time our leadership will not stop, Aliyev has no chance to turn on the back one, you understand why. Thirdly, remember, we had a MILLION refugees, this is already half of the population of Armenia, and taking into account their descendants, and we have demographic growth, while your demographic decline and the population is scattering, this is almost 1,5 million, they waited a long time, they were finally given a chance, but knock out at least 84 tanks in one day of battles, at least not in your dreams and fakes laughing laughing laughing and EVERYTHING that we have, including a reserve of a couple of hundred T-55s, but they will strangle you with their bare hands, beat you with hoes and hoes, sickle heads and not only laughing they will cut, they will chop with axes. Although sorry, the ax is sick for you laughing but for me it's such a unique case, the CSTO officer to whom you are now calling was hacked to death in NATO courses, it sounds strange somehow, of course, but still, the CSTO officer should have learned English in Russia, in the beautiful city of St. Petersburg , where there is a wonderful university, and not wander around anywhere.
    So what am I talking about? About that video where our guys died - the heart hurts, but the blood is boiling, and their blood will not remain unavenged, not to frighten and not embarrass us with this, we are not soft gay Europeans, we cannot make us tremble with this. Hello to you, although you started this dirty business, but bash on bash:

    And by the way, regarding the video of the "destroyed Azerbaijani convoy", pay attention to the "little detail", our T-72 base tried to clear the road from damaged trucks moving from the opposite side, and also pay attention to the trucks, they are yours, Armenian hi
    And so, I really hope and sincerely, from the bottom of my heart I wish you and a company of similar writers to be mobilized and sent to us for re-education ... Do not be afraid laughing believe me laughing, there is nothing wrong, this is the Azerbaijani Defense Ministry fakes throwing shamelessly into the eyes of the assembled foreign attache, about your losses already under a thousand, believes its heroic Defense Ministry we have losses there already 9 million. laughing , there will be no one to even fight with you laughing so, go take a photo, you can even squeeze a photo here, and then back, in a coffin laughing well, it's just more convenient to take out back, logistics are cheaper.
  • starley
    starley 29 September 2020 20: 13
    0
    The outcome of this war can rather be decided not by the losses of the sides, but by the addition of their numbers due to the equal expulsion of Armenians and Azerbaijanis from Russia.
  • Pavel57
    Pavel57 29 September 2020 21: 06
    0
    Quote: Black_Jacket
    But all this does not negate the fact that Armenia has been accumulating foreign lands for 4 centuries.

    Seen from Mount Ararat.
  • Victorm
    Victorm 29 September 2020 22: 48
    -2
    Quote: starley
    The outcome of this war can rather be decided not by the losses of the sides, but by the addition of their numbers due to the equal expulsion of Armenians and Azerbaijanis from Russia.
    Border closed sad Even if Azerbaijan opens in one direction, there is a high probability that Russia will not release. They would have helped, we do not need to be expelled, we have been waiting for this for a long time and we will go ourselves, we will go on foot, we will crawl on our belly if necessary - just to be in time, and not to appear for a nodding analysis and with downcast eyes, they say quarantine, but we wanted to, but we didn’t could ...
  • Scorpio05
    Scorpio05 29 September 2020 22: 49
    -1
    Quote: Just Sanych
    Learn history - Armenians have lived in Karabakh for hundreds of centuries, when a country like Azerbaijan did not even exist.

    Traditional friendly advice from Armenians, which they themselves never follow, because they teach the Armenian version of history)
    Can you teach history after all? Here is the first president of the Academy of Sciences of Armenia, the famous Armenian historian, academician I.A. Orbeli wrote: “Today's Nagorno-Karabakh was a part of medieval Albania, and was later captured by Armenian feudal lords” (IA Orbeli, “Selected Works.” Yerevan, 1963). Arabs, who were denounced on the Orthodox Diophysites of the Albanians) But then the Azerbaijani feudal lords - the Seljuks came, handed them out to the Byzantines (because the Armenians were already under the Byzantines) captured not only Karabakh or the lands of the Armenians (hopelessly sitting under the Byzantines), but the entire Caucasus part of Asia Minor. What complaints, dear, or did you Armenians think that once you came to someone else's place, this is forever?)) Sorry, move over. The Middle Ages, you know: whoever dared, he ate.
    Second, listen, if there was no country like Azerbaijan, then what was the state of the great Atabeks of Azerbaijan, who kept Armenians under the thumb for a long hundred years? Azerbaijan was always of course, but under a different name. To the astonishment of the Armenians, Russia was not always called that, there was also the Principality of Moscow, Kievan Rus, etc., and Germany was generally called the Holy Roman Empire))

    I am surprised why the Armenians did not protest and did not present their claims (they say, who are you? You are not yet), when exactly the Azerbaijani ruler Jahan-Shah Karakoyunlu gave his consent to the return of the Supreme Catholicosate of the Armenian Apostolic Church from the city of Sis in Cilicia to Echmiadzin? And why, in fact, did you - the Armenians ask the Azerbaijani ruler for permission, because Azerbaijan was not there then? wink In 1441, it was Jahan Shah who began the tradition of giving the titles of meliks to Armenian petty feudal lords, even to local and village elders. By the end of the 16th century, the Khasan-Jalal family of Khachen received from the great Jan Shah Karakoyunlu the meliks of Gulistan and Jraberd.
    Allahverdi II Hasan-Jalal (what a beautiful Armenian name and surname))), who died in 1813, was the last of the Hasan Jalal clan with the full title of melik.
  • Victorm
    Victorm 29 September 2020 23: 25
    -2
    Quote: Scorpio05
    Second, listen, if there was no country like Azerbaijan, then what was the state of the great Atabeks of Azerbaijan, who kept Armenians under the thumb for a long hundred years? Azerbaijan was always of course, but under a different name. To the astonishment of the Armenians, Russia was not always called that, there was also the Principality of Moscow, Kievan Rus, etc., and Germany was generally called the Holy Roman Empire))
    As I understand it, you are a supporter of the Musavatist point of view on our history.
    The last state of those who, with the light hand of Stalin, are called Azerbaijanis, and who always called themselves no other than a Turk or a Muslim, existed until 1925. On the territory of modern Iran, which Russians traditionally call Persia, there was an AZERBAIJAN state. Open the Treaty of Gulistan, the Treaty of Turkmanchay and see WHO fought with the Russian Empire, and WHO signed a treaty with it, there is no Persian spirit there either.
    Only Azerbaijanis served in the army of the Qajar State, and if, by analogy with the Ottomans, who used Arabic to unite the lands under the idea of ​​pan-Islamism, the Qajars who united under their rule all the lands of Persia used Persian (Farsi) as the state language, then in the army the only language was "Azerbaijani" , many simply did not know Farsi laughing and at the court they spoke only "Azerbaijani", that is, Turkish, but do not confuse it with the language of the Ottoman Turks.
    Quite a remarkable moment, now we say to the Ottoman Turks "one people, two states", but long before Yudenich, our army staged a massacre of the Ottoman Turks under the same Erzurum, defeating their army, which had a numerical superiority of one and a half times.

    Here, many Armenians and others wrote about the ransacking of Azerbaijanis, by the way they are right, Turkish expansion is a fact, Sunnism is being pushed through, Turkification is taking place, they are trying to tear us off and separate us from our half brothers in Iran, and it is with them that we are really "one people, two states" , half brothers. Ottoman Turks, let's say, are cousins. Thank them for their help and support, but they are a different state and in any case pursue their own interests, but it is not in our interests to become an appendage of Turkey. We are almost equal in number and Azerbaijanis and Ottoman Turks, in Turkey, 80 million ethnic Turks are actually just a little more than half, and we are almost the same 40 million in the northern, now independent part and in the southern part of Azerbaijan. We are equal, we are close, we have common roots, but we are different peoples, with different histories, traditions, cultures, we profess different currents in Islam, and by the way, the last long centuries have been a watershed, a kind of protective mechanism, therefore Sunnisization (I'm not talking about circumcision laughing ), even though we already have a Sunni minority, it is VERY dangerous.
  • xomaNN
    xomaNN 30 September 2020 11: 17
    0
    The situation of the first military conflicts after the USSR in the 90s is repeated. Both opponents are armed with many weapons produced by the USSR. But here are Turkish UAVs, this novelty has already shown its effectiveness several times over the past year. Those. system of Armenians. The air defense did not find the "fly swatter". Only layered air defense. But to "burn" expensive SAM missiles on UAVs?
  • fa2998
    fa2998 30 September 2020 16: 42
    0
    Russia presented a good "gift" to Christian Armenia. Azeri "Soncepeks"
  • Red Alert
    Red Alert 30 September 2020 22: 30
    0
    Quote: Scorpio05
    Well?))) My kitty ...
    On July 5, 1921, a meeting of the Caucasian Bureau was held on the issue of Nagorno-Karabakh. On the initiative of Ordzhonikidze and NAZARETYAN (!), The issue of the fate of Nagorno-Karabakh is again raised. The new meeting made a decision: "Based on the need for national peace between Muslims and Armenians and the economic ties of Upper and Lower Karabakh, its permanent ties with Azerbaijan, Nagorno-Karabakh TO LEAVE (!) Within the Azerbaijan SSR, granting it broad regional autonomy with the administrative center in the mountains . Shusha, part of the autonomous region. "
    And even earlier, the Armenians themselves renounced Nagorno-Karabakh:
    As for the Armenian claims on Karabakh, the diplomatic mission reminded Chicherin: "In Batum, Kachaznuni and Khatisyan, negotiating with the Turks (meaning the peace conference in Batum in May-June 1918 - G. G.) agreed to give Karabakh to Azerbaijan" ( To Chicherin's Foreign Drug from the diplomatic mission of Soviet Russia in Irevan, November, 1920 // GA AR, f. 28, op.1, d.38, l.15).

    On May 22, 1919 Anastas Mikoyan in a telegram to V.I. Lenin noted: “Dashnaks, agents of the Armenian government, are seeking accession of Karabakh to Armenia. But for the people of Karabakh, this would mean losing the source of their life in Baku and contacting Erivan, with which they had never been connected with anything. The Armenian peasantry at the fifth congress decided to join Azerbaijan. ” (The Central Party Archive of the Institute of Marxism-Leninism under the Central Committee of the CPSU - CPA IML, f. 461, op. 1, unit store 4525, l. 1.)
    If the khanate was part of Iran (more precisely, "Davlati Mehlugi Qajariya" i.e. the state of Qajars), by the way, which were ruled by a purely Azerbaijani Qajar dynasty (my distant relatives by pure chance))), then why the Russian Empire signed an agreement with with the Karabakh khanot represented by the sovereign khan of all Karabakh Ibrahim Jevanshir. Probably the Russian emperor and courtiers have borrowed more than yours. Secondly, how is it a part of Iran, if Shah Mohammed Kajar, then the prince of blood Abbas Mirza Kajar, failed to take Shusha (although they were besieging for a long time) from Panahali Khan and Ibrahim Khan Jevanshirov? And Why did the Jevanshirs print their own money and send ambassadors everywhere?

    How disgusting it all looks. Nationalists refer to Soviet documents. Aliyev and Pashinyan to court for the murder of the Azerbaijani and Armenian working people.
  • asr55
    asr55 7 October 2020 20: 02
    0
    "Anti-aircraft missile systems" Osa-AKM ", according to many observers, demonstrates inconsistency in the fight against attack drones. A similar situation was in Idlib, during the offensive of Turkish troops. At the same time, these air defense systems are one of the main military" anti-aircraft guns "in the Russian army. It was reported about a number of modernizations carried out in the Russian Federation "Wasp" "
    Rave. Armenians drove drones just a cloud. In the Russian army, this is not the main complex, it is still a Soviet complex, just nonsense. It is difficult to shoot down loitering ammunition of the IAI Harpy (Israel) family for any anti-aircraft complex. Basically, they destroy the air defense system when it is not ready for reflection.