Military Review

Beads to Pigs, or Western Respect

97
Beads to Pigs, or Western Respect

There are people in Poland with a capital letter who are still looking for soldiers of that war, bury them, erect new ones and restore old ones. But this, to my greatest regret, is one of the exceptions. The recent incident with the marauding soldiers is the best confirmation of this.


I would be very surprised if these soldiers were made by the Germans. I would be surprised if Americans made such a set. And he was not at all surprised by such actions on the part of the Poles and their masters. Britons.

Yes, the Germans, simply drowned in repentance and tolerance, would not have thought of that. Although it was in their performance that one could more or less perceive this, since their ancestors could have witnessed this.

“Could have been” is the key phrase. I do not argue that the highest command and party staff exported from Germany not only reparation values, but also "for themselves." It was, he himself observed the "remnants of luxury" from the heirs. But here's the rank and file - sorry. They could have gotten into a special department for that. And they took away and condemned. Looting in the open was not welcomed, and therefore could end with a walk to the nearest wall.

And it was. Clocks, razors (he himself has a 1936 "Solingen" - a masterpiece from the very ones brought over), porcelain dolls for children, cuts of fabric - what else could fit into the "sidor"?

Sorry, the herd was not driven away. And people for forced labor too. And the black earth was not cut down and was not taken away by carriages. Reparation machines? Excuse me, but who called to fight? You have to pay for the pleasure, and in the case of our ancestors - pay in full.

So I'm sure the Germans will never twitch.

Further. Americans. If you regularly read American publications such as "Interest" and "Purple", then there you can find a lot in historical sections of rhetoric on the topic "Why we are better than Russians." It is rhetoric.

Any American is sure that his soldiers defeated Hitler and Hirohito, liberated the whole world and all that. Why? Yes, because they told him, and they did it cheerfully and with a twinkle.

Here we are on the losing side, because for so many years all this groaning that we must repent, admit, beg forgiveness and so on has been going on. And they are always bright, holy and for a just cause. But the whole world believes ...

But Americans have less outright rejection. Indeed, yes, they are tough, because they are stronger than the Russians. Everything is quite logical, because it is not with the Indians to demonstrate your coolness, right?

If you look at how Americans present themselves in history, you get beauty. They defeated the Germans in Africa in 1942, they won in Italy in 1943, they won in France in 1944 and in Germany in 1945. They won everywhere.

And on the other side of the world they won too. In general, "Thunder of victory, sound out", only in the American version.

But this "I will kill everyone, one will remain" - nothing. I had to leave someone to be famous later. That is why the Russians are admitted to history, against whom the gallant American soldiers stood (sat and lay) so gloriously during the Cold War.

And while the Americans were fighting in the West, the Russians were doing something there in the East. While the Americans, with a little such help from Great Britain and ANZAC, crushed the Japanese in the Pacific Ocean, the Russians were doing something there in the north of the Japanese Empire.

And then the Russians created their own empire, which the Americans opposed, and in the end they won. With great help from Gorbachev and Yeltsin, they won.

Tough warriors need a tough enemy. Otherwise, who will they look really cool against?

Therefore, everything is clear with the Americans. They got an enemy who is strong and worthy of respect.

Now let's look at the British and the Poles.

The former - because without them the latter would not have had so much ambition. And, oddly enough, these two countries are much more closely related than it seems at first glance.

British. How did they differ at all? First received in France. Lost a bunch of their colonies in Asia. We lost more than a dozen ships from bombs and torpedoes of the Japanese aviation... Singapore was shamefully surrendered, where 100 British troops surrendered to 30 Japanese. They fled from the Italo-German troops across all Africa from Algeria to Egypt.

In general, everyone fleet sinking the Bismarck and fighting off German bombers in the skies of Britain was all the British could do. The rest somehow does not fit into the asset.

Victory in North Africa over Rommel and his Italian inept - only with the help of the United States. Return territories in the Pacific Ocean and defend Australia - with the help of the United States. To defeat the Germans in France - with the help of the USA and the USSR (yes, we don’t forget the Ardennes, it was).

What remains? Just quietly bend your line and blot out history.

For example, how contrary to all the arguments of the Soviet command, the British services staged an uprising in Warsaw, which the Germans drowned in blood. And they are trying to make us guilty.

The Poles, who merged in two weeks, despite loud statements before the start of the war, which had lost the army, all they could boast about was the creation of the AK - Home Army and AL - the Army of Ludova.

What made AL famous is very difficult to say. We tried something. "Akovtsy" fought with everyone, both the Germans and ours. And after the war, some were in the camps, and some in illegal military units.

It's very simple: those who have nothing to show as merit can only try themselves in the arena of humiliating others. How the Poles did it.

Nothing original.

Can you make any claims to us? To do this, go to the website of the main manufacturer of collectible miniatures "Zvezda". And to see German, American, British, Romanian soldiers there. Simple images for collectors and history buffs.

No political overtones.










Perhaps for lovers of historical truth, it would be worth releasing sets of the type "American Marines in Song Mi" and "Soldiers of the Home Army are setting fire to the village council in Western Belarus." It would be very appropriate to recruit UPA soldiers hanging a Soviet party worker or "green brothers" who are cracking down on a teacher.

And stuff like that. Historically correct, albeit a little politicized.

I wonder if it would be nice to see such sets for neighbors?

The merits of the Poles in the destruction of Soviet soldiers and officers, civilian specialists, party and Soviet workers are, of course, inferior in mass to the same OUN-UPA (banned in the Russian Federation), but no less worthy of perpetuation than Soviet marauder soldiers.

Maybe even more.

After all, it was from the hands of the Soviet government that Poland received the lands of the three German provinces. In favor of Poland, 2/3 of Prussia, the lands of Pomerania and the lands of Silesia were torn away from Germany. The Germans were forcibly evicted, and Germany lost about 25% of its past territories.

Well, and the "primordially Polish" cities: Suwalki, Olsztyn, Szczecin, Wroclaw, Katowice. Plus Bialystok and Bialystok lands and the Ukrainian city of Przemysl.

And this is the most that neither is a handout. Not so many Poles fought in that war. All donated lands were abundantly watered with the blood of those very "marauders".

I do not want to say that the Poles did not fight at all. They fought. But it is so selective that the description of their victories and merits deserves a separate historical investigation. There were Poles who really gave their lives in the war against fascism. This is a fact that cannot be silenced. They fought alongside the British, next to Soviet soldiers, on the ships of former Poland, in the sands and swamps.

And all the more shamelessly look the efforts of some villains from history, trying to spit in the direction of Soviet soldiers.

More precisely, they try to spit at ours, but they still fall into their own. For now, at least.
Author:
97 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must to register.

I have an account? Sign in

  1. Kronos
    Kronos 29 September 2020 10: 10
    20
    They spit because we spit in ourselves.
    1. Russian jacket
      Russian jacket 29 September 2020 10: 20
      10
      You are right, unfortunately this is so ... We are all trying to be holier than the Pope of Rome, although with the archives, it would be possible to return some males, washed white in Western propaganda, back to black ...
      1. Temples
        Temples 29 September 2020 11: 06
        +3
        Quote: Kronos
        we ourselves spit in ourselves.

        Miserables.
        Why are you so omitted.
        Get up off your knees.
        Be ashamed of your fathers.

        And I will note that for the general picture of the world, people in Russia do not spit on themselves. They honor their fathers.

        The offended carry water. wink
        1. Kronos
          Kronos 29 September 2020 11: 15
          +9
          Well, not the authorities say that Stalin and the USSR are a little better than the Nazis?
          1. Temples
            Temples 29 September 2020 11: 52
            -1
            Polish authorities?
            So we are in Russia.

            Look at the Immortal Regiment.

            I saw how many people remember their grandfathers and fathers.

            The Anglo-Saxons were not at war with the Russian government or, in your opinion, the Soviet government.
            not even with the communists and not with communism because it is their product. The fruit of their twisted mind.
            The Angles fought with the hands of the Nets and other tup.o. winged Natsiks, as now they are fighting with the hands of the Ukrainians.
            They fought with the Russians. With our civilization, which is more than a thousand years old.
            War with the Russian world.

            You present yourself as flawed. You oppose the Soviet people to the Russian people.
            Now the Russians are repeating after Yeltsin.
            The main thing is not to call the inhabitants of our country Russians.

            Your own brain is jammed and poking around in this shit.

            Russophobes, only with tipsy.
            1. Kronos
              Kronos 29 September 2020 11: 58
              +6
              The Russian authorities - Putin who reveres Solzhenitsyn, constant films and series at the state expense about the horrors of the USSR,
              1. Temples
                Temples 29 September 2020 12: 18
                0
                Yes, no one hait the USSR. The USSR is the period of our country's existence.
                It was customary for the communists to stigmatize their predecessor.
                You continue this practice.

                We have lived in our country for a thousand years.
                And around there are good people in the OUTSIDE majority.
                And many had a party membership card because without it it was impossible to achieve this or that.

                Our people are above parties and other crap.

                The USSR during the Brezhnev era and the USSR during the AUCPB are different states. Completely different.

                Brezhnev really built socialism.
                It was a good time.

                But his follower called this time stagnation.
                And sold the fuck out.

                This is the kind of communism.
                1. Tatyana
                  Tatyana 29 September 2020 12: 43
                  +6
                  In all respects this is a GREAT article - historically TRUE and well written !!!
                  Thanks to her for the author!
              2. sgapich
                sgapich 29 September 2020 12: 55
                +4
                Quote: Kronos
                ... permanent films and series at the state expense about the horrors of the USSR ...

                Strange, I've looked at "Panfilov's 28" although no one forced it. But there were also schoolchildren. As the film ended, the credits went. EVERYONE remained seated and watched.
                Yes, even Khabenkovsky "Sobibor" looked.
                Quote: Kronos
                ... permanent films and series at the state expense about the horrors of the USSR ...

                Not, well, if you think "Geographer drank the globe" as an ideal.
                1. Kronos
                  Kronos 29 September 2020 12: 58
                  +6
                  Now count how many people like Panfilov, and how many different penal battalions and stalinurads come out
                  1. Alf
                    Alf 29 September 2020 17: 18
                    +4
                    Quote: Kronos
                    Now count how many people like Panfilov, and how many different penal battalions and stalinurads come out

                    And even then, for 28 Panfilov's people they collected money by subscription from the people.
              3. Paul Siebert
                Paul Siebert 30 September 2020 10: 32
                +4
                The Russian authorities - Putin who reveres Solzhenitsyn, constant films and series at the state expense about the horrors of the USSR,

                Yes - the article hooked! Until the grinding of the teeth.
                What kind of observer one should be to make such soldiers ...
                Let them make millions of figurines in striped robes. And proportionate models of gas chambers.
                So that Polish children learn to deal with them. After all, the death camps were mainly in Poland ...
                Now a new generation of fascists is growing up - this time of the Slavic root! .. Polish, Ukrainian ...
                Kronos, you are right.
                A state where the elite is infected with Western betrayal has no chance of becoming a great state.
                Doomed to defeat. Those who have accounts abroad, several passports, children, students in Oxford will leave.
                And we will remain in the ashes.
                Maybe send these ghouls to the West today?
    2. Victorio
      Victorio 29 September 2020 10: 20
      +5
      Quote: Kronos
      They spit becausethat we ourselves spit in ourselves.

      ===
      they spit and will spit until they spit on / at them.
      1. Temples
        Temples 29 September 2020 11: 07
        -7
        Quote: Victorio
        they spit and will spit until they spit on / at them.


        Were you allowed to use mobile phones in kindergarten? laughing
        1. Victorio
          Victorio 29 September 2020 11: 58
          +2
          Quote: Temples
          Quote: Victorio
          they spit and will spit until they spit on / at them.


          Were you allowed to use mobile phones in kindergarten? laughing

          ===
          and you?

          Since it is considered below the belt to act similarly to the actions of the Poles, then it is quite possible to make a historical / archival calculation about all cases of looting / actions of the command and so on in the territory where the Soviet troops were located. convey this in any form (s) to the Polish comrades. and take concrete steps based on their response actions and reactions. those. actions in response to defamation.
          1. Temples
            Temples 29 September 2020 12: 13
            +1
            Victor, spitting back is a child's reaction.

            Now you speak differently.
            It is really necessary to talk about how the war went.
            And we need to say this first of all to our children.

            It must be said that Germans and Poles and all other Europeans brought death to our homes.

            And teach children that you can't dance around with murderers.

            And the Europeans are told that they brought death to our families.

            And even children cannot spit.
            1. Victorio
              Victorio 29 September 2020 12: 33
              0
              Quote: Temples
              Victor, spit in response, this is the child's reaction.
              Now you speak differently.
              It is really necessary to talk about how the war went.
              And we need to say this first of all to our children.
              It must be said that Germans and Poles and all other Europeans brought death to our homes.
              And teach children that you can't dance around with murderers.
              And the Europeans are told that they brought death to our families.
              And even children cannot spit.

              ===
              spit, spoke? do you take everything written literally? and if not, and it is impatient to dig and show off, walk past. these are your problems, and there are adults here.
              1. Temples
                Temples 29 September 2020 13: 17
                -4
                Quote: Victorio
                and here are adults.


                In the room where you scribble?
                Then give them your gadget. laughing
    3. Oleg123219307
      Oleg123219307 29 September 2020 10: 49
      10
      Quote: Kronos
      They spit because we spit in ourselves.

      This is what happens if, instead of a great power, you pose as a "respected partner." If we speak in simple Russian, without balancing act in macroeconomic terminology, what do we get from the West? NOTHING! Here are the points. 1) We have all our own food. We don't need imports, especially from NATO countries. Yes, it will be difficult without lobsters and truffles for a while, but we will break through. 2) Technologies - yes, we import in full measure. Just which ones? Machine tools and equipment? Nope - sanctions. Military equipment or hardware components? Nope - sanctions. Power machines of great power? Nope - sanctions. Ships and vessels? Nope - sanctions. What remains is consumer electronics, light industry, automobiles and software. The auto industry has its own, and there is also a Chinese one. About software, LP and electronics - also hello to the rising sun - we will not die. And so everything is made in china ... 3) Resources - our own. We sell them ourselves. There are NO resources needed for the industry, the sources of which were not used on our territory. And what is left? And there is only one thing left - money. We buy money, sell money, invest money ... But despite the fact that there is practically no incoming flow of goods, all the resources, energy, and everything else that we sell and convert into THEIR money, we simply GIVE. For we do not buy anything with this money except other money. And money, sadly, has no real value of its own. So what if by exporting resources we keep the budget from debt with this money? Are we patted on the head and rated BBB-? And states with 27 trillion in unsecured debt have AAA +. For whoever eats a girl's dinner is her and dances. It also works with rating agencies. And those industries where our export is really needed are not connected with NATO. Nuclear industry, military-industrial complex, heavy engineering. The products of these branches do not go to NATO at all. So why are we so afraid of them? What prevents you from taking back what was squandered by traitors in the 90s? Remind the former republics of their place? Outweigh Banderlog simply because it's high time? To restore the borders of the Union? Drive out or put to the wall the inner fifth column in full force? To catch the authors of such opuses and in practice demonstrate to them what happens to those who anger a great power? Do you think these are the great NATO armies? Their non-nuclear forces in Europe are not our opponents even for a month, if we do not go beyond the old borders, and no one will get involved in the last nuclear war for the former republics. Or are we hindered by the triumph of humanism and crap, faith and hope for the best and respect for the bright path of all those who pour crap on us for a thousand years, feeding from our table? No. Grandmothers keep us. The airbags of our elite lying in American banks. And they lie there, not because the power is shit, but because the system gives power only for a while with the risk of flying out into the cold at any second. So gentlemen are insured. It's time, it's high time to revive the empire in one form or another. Yes, a dictatorship, but not a democratic one, but an internal aristocracy in one form or another will develop. But she already exists, but now she is shaking for her money in the west, and will shake for Russia. Then there will be a sense in expansion, and incentives for the development of industry and the army, and much more ...
      1. mikh-korsakov
        mikh-korsakov 29 September 2020 11: 17
        +5
        I will subscribe to everything that Oleg wrote. The authorities are not that stupid, but they have sat in fat. Gluttonous Moscow has already become so morose that it even began to play in opposition to itself. But so that it would be fun to play the revolution, but so that the house in London and the summer house on the distant shores are preserved. It is sacred - it is neither, nor.
        1. Ingvar 72
          Ingvar 72 29 September 2020 19: 54
          0
          Quote: mikh-korsakov
          The power is not that stupid, but it has sat in fat

          Either their goals are initially sharpened to regress Russia. And I am inclined to this version, because they buy real estate registered in the name of their family members in Western countries. hi
      2. andrew42
        andrew42 2 October 2020 12: 08
        +1
        oleg123219307. - Well charged. But ... the Empire, as a rule, or rather the imperial elite, never gave up the "bubble". All "empires" in the history of mankind fell precisely because a significant part of the imperial elites accepted faith in the Golden Calf, digging a quick grave for their imperial companions. These are Rome, Byzantium, and even Uyguria. This also applies to a part of the party elite of the USSR - Gorby, Yakovlev, Shevardnadze, and hundreds of other party cosmopolitans of lesser ranks. Empire is form. And the content of this form is different. Either religion or ideology, but different. It is only Putin who is allowed to carry heresy that there is no need for ideology, but "joint management seasoned with varnished patriotism" is enough. Others for such nonsense would have been driven by those rags. There are quasi-empires, go chimeras, starting with the Khazar Kaganate and ending with Britain and the United States, where the man in the street is "shown" his "own" patriotic bek / prime minister / president, but behind the scenes "business" elites really rule. The concept of "Empire" itself is just the level of development of a state multinational entity, often declared, sometimes (as in China), on the contrary, carefully masked. Content is important.
        1. Oleg123219307
          Oleg123219307 2 October 2020 13: 59
          -1
          Quote: andrew42
          oleg123219307. - Well charged. But ... the Empire, as a rule, or rather the imperial elite, never gave up the "bubble". All "empires" in the history of mankind fell precisely because a significant part of the imperial elites accepted faith in the Golden Calf, digging a quick grave for their imperial companions. These are Rome, Byzantium, and even Uyguria. This also applies to a part of the party elite of the USSR - Gorby, Yakovlev, Shevardnadze, and hundreds of other party cosmopolitans of lesser ranks. Empire is form. And the content of this form is different. Either religion or ideology, but different. It is only Putin who is allowed to carry heresy that there is no need for ideology, but "joint management seasoned with varnished patriotism" is enough. Others for such nonsense would have been driven by those rags. There are quasi-empires, go chimeras, starting with the Khazar Kaganate and ending with Britain and the United States, where the man in the street is "shown" his "own" patriotic bek / prime minister / president, but behind the scenes "business" elites really rule. The concept of "Empire" itself is just the level of development of a state multinational entity, often declared, sometimes (as in China), on the contrary, carefully masked. Content is important.

          I agree. Content is very important. And it is not necessary to repeat the mistakes of previous eras. I can rephrase. What is needed is an absolute monarchy, very very tough, which does not impose such conditions and restrictions as democracy and does not require 90% of the leadership's working time to be devoted to internal political intrigues. It is not necessarily hereditary, the mechanism in which the head of state himself chooses a successor is quite sufficient, even though there is no relative, with the exception that this successor must have sufficient preparation for management by the time of taking office. Then the state will not be ruled by the sweetest-voiced as in crap, but will become either the most influential or the most prepared, as the emperor decides. We need a legal basis for the existence of the aristocracy. If you have money, power and want to have special rights and position - please. But on condition that ALL your money and ALL your power is only INSIDE the country and for the good of the country. Do you want to have at least a penny abroad - go out of the country with ends. Great opportunities come with great responsibility. And why take risks if in a country you are a billionaire and a count, solely managing a territory the size of an average European country, and having quite officially a share of taxes and unlimited opportunities for business development from it, and there you are just one of hundreds of thousands of simply rich people .. At the same time, it is very clear to separate the tasks of the state and local self-government. At the level below the region / province, all key positions must nevertheless be elective, since people at home know better who will better solve their problems. But the authority and responsibility of this elected government should be only local. In general, there is a lot that can be offered to stabilize such a model in our conditions. I do not pretend to be the ultimate truth, but it seems to me that such a model will definitely be better than the game of crap that we now have ...
          1. Icarus
            Icarus 2 October 2020 19: 02
            0
            We need a legal basis for the existence of the aristocracy. If you have money, power and want to have special rights and position - please.

            What the fuck is an elite with special rights (unless it's about the right to be at the forefront of the fight against enemies and be the first to die for the Motherland). There will be no social equality (the income gap of the richest cannot be more than 10-20 times the average), no one will die for this elite with special rights, and sooner or later expect betrayal and another collapse of the country from such an elite.
            1. Oleg123219307
              Oleg123219307 2 October 2020 20: 47
              0
              Quote: Icarus
              What the fuck is an elite with special rights (unless it's about the right to be at the forefront of the fight against enemies and be the first to die for the Motherland). There will be no social equality (the income gap of the richest cannot be more than 10-20 times the average), no one will die for this elite with special rights, and sooner or later expect betrayal and another collapse of the country from such an elite.

              And now something else? With the only difference that the elite does not hold back ANYTHING from betraying the interests of the Motherland?
              1. Icarus
                Icarus 2 October 2020 21: 00
                0
                I agree. But you wrote above about not repeating the mistakes of previous eras and right there about the aristocracy with privileges. This will not suit our mentality. I would not like such a future as it is now, including taking into account the amendment to the constitution - seven senators for life. For me, let the monarch, the sovereign, the dictator, who cares for the country, be at the head. But he must be the first among EQUALS.
                1. Oleg123219307
                  Oleg123219307 2 October 2020 21: 19
                  0
                  Quote: Icarus
                  I agree. But you wrote above about not repeating the mistakes of previous eras and right there about the aristocracy with privileges. This will not suit our mentality. I would not like such a future as it is now, including taking into account the amendment to the constitution - seven senators for life. For me, let the monarch, the sovereign, the dictator, who cares for the country, be at the head. But he must be the first among EQUALS.

                  What will motivate the financial and managerial elite to stand up for their country? After all, rich and influential people will be in any case, but it would be good if they voluntarily sought to glorify their country, because this is what gives them more power and money. It is possible with a whip, of course, but here the eternal question is about who will guard the watchmen. As the Union collapsed - the KGB, which was supposed to stand guard, admitted. And why? But because the loot is in your pocket, despite the fact that "everyone is equal" seemed more important than the country ...
  2. Ragnar Lodbrok
    Ragnar Lodbrok 29 September 2020 10: 11
    22
    After all, it was from the hands of the Soviet government that Poland received the lands of the three German provinces. In favor of Poland, 2/3 of Prussia, the lands of Pomerania and the lands of Silesia were torn away from Germany.

    And most importantly, six hundred thousand of the best Soviet people were killed for this Poland, that's what a shame. They didn't deserve such a sacrifice. Nobody can convince you otherwise.
    1. prior
      prior 29 September 2020 10: 54
      +4
      Well, that's what we need to bill Warsaw for 600 dead Russian soldiers. A million dollars each. The feat has no statute of limitations.
      If they don't want to pay, the Russian Ministry of Defense will have something to do ...
      1. Temples
        Temples 29 September 2020 12: 04
        +1
        Quote: prior
        Well, that's what we need to bill Warsaw for 600 dead Russian soldiers. A million dollars each.

        Not only did he appreciate the life of our grandfathers.
        So also in bucks.

        Loot gobbled up your conscience?

        There is something that is not traded.
        You can not trade the dead defenders of the Fatherland.
        This is bestiality.
        1. prior
          prior 29 September 2020 13: 04
          0
          Are you defending the right of Poles to trade in marauding soldiers?
          Offer your version of defending the memory of fallen soldiers.
          In the West, everything is valued by money, stripping them down to their underpants is the most understandable and intelligible means for them and others like them.
    2. Temples
      Temples 29 September 2020 11: 17
      -2
      Quote: Ragnar Lothbrok
      deserve psheki such a sacrifice. No one will convince otherwise.

      Nehru was building communism all over the planet.
      The communists have spawned the republics.
      Now we are reaping the fruits of the promised communism. Eat, do not crap.

      Destroyed the aggressor, so take the liberated lands for yourself. For they are watered with Russian blood.

      No, damn it, they are building a world Comintern!

      Built?

      Not only did they seize all the conquered lands, they also divided their own country into parts.

      And now they cry now: -
      Quote: Kronos
      we ourselves spit in ourselves.


      Even narokman sometimes lets go of the dope. But communism seems to be a dope to the grave.
      1. Igoresha
        Igoresha 2 October 2020 11: 20
        0
        The communists have spawned the republics.
        there is a story that Andropov was going to rebuild the USSR according to the principle of American shorts, so that there are no national republics ... then the massacre would have been after the collapse of the Union
  3. Gardamir
    Gardamir 29 September 2020 10: 29
    10
    All this is interesting, about the Germans, Americans, Englishmen and Poles.
    But why did the Kremlin kneel before the Poles? Why is Kolizurengoy grown? Why are films being made in Russia about kind SS men and evil NKVDs?
    What is one day on May 9 worth if on the other days, here in Russia they spit in memory of our ancestors?
    1. Daniil Konovalenko
      Daniil Konovalenko 29 September 2020 10: 50
      +3
      But why did the Kremlin kneel before the Poles?
      ... And now it is. And not only in front of them.
    2. Uncle lee
      Uncle lee 29 September 2020 10: 56
      +4
      Quote: Gardamir
      What is one day worth May 9

      With the Mausoleum boarded up with plywood!
      1. Daniil Konovalenko
        Daniil Konovalenko 29 September 2020 11: 15
        +4
        You understood me correctly ... Here just now, Isaev revisited the series, only negative characters aroused sympathy. A strange impression. Even Isaev did not cause positive emotions, do not believe everyone waited for him to run over to them. Although he knew how it would end. Here this is our cinema.
    3. tatra
      tatra 29 September 2020 11: 19
      -1
      But because the cosmopolitan-egoists who seized Russia in anti-Soviet Perestroika, slander the history of our country with automatic justification of the crimes of external and internal enemies of our country and people, including the crimes of the White Poles, is their ideology, propaganda, and the history of our country, and the only justification for their capture of Russia in more than 30 years.
  4. Daniil Konovalenko
    Daniil Konovalenko 29 September 2020 10: 34
    +6
    "Soldiers of the Home Army set fire to the village council in Western Belarus."
    .....Why not? Or "The shooting of Polish officers by the German invaders in Katyn" ..
    1. novel66
      novel66 29 September 2020 10: 50
      +2
      but it is necessary to release, do not wait for favors from nature
      1. Daniil Konovalenko
        Daniil Konovalenko 29 September 2020 10: 55
        +1
        And then let them say that it’s not true. Remember the Armenian cartoon, Who will tell a story? Or is it not true? (C)
    2. major147
      major147 29 September 2020 11: 23
      0
      Quote: Daniil Konovalenko
      "Soldiers of the Home Army set fire to the village council in Western Belarus."
      .....Why not? Or "The shooting of Polish officers by the German invaders in Katyn" ..

      Or Ukrainian "soldiers" are sending looted property from Donbass to their homeland by "New mail"
  5. RealPilot
    RealPilot 29 September 2020 10: 39
    +5
    And we ought to make other figures as well.
    A Pole cleans boots for an SS officer, for example ...
    Or something about the Warsaw ghetto ... Or some other moments. am

    But we are generous, we will not. And, unfortunately, they have learned this long ago.

    But this abomination and meanness, ingratitude - these are, alas, the national traits of peoples caught between the centers of power. They themselves do not decide anything, but adhere to the winners, always hesitate. At the same time, they dream of their own greatness.
    Therefore, when the pendulum of history swings again, they will again sing about the "Slavic brotherhood" ...
    And here the question arises: will we again step on the rake of restoring Polish statehood?
  6. mikh-korsakov
    mikh-korsakov 29 September 2020 10: 54
    +2
    Why are these arguments about morality, on the topic of oh, how they hurt us and the shameless are not ashamed of anything. Once upon a time there was a TV program on which the American political scientist was reprimanded that they say how immoral double standards are. To this the American, it seems Bohm, did not hesitate to answer. In English, there is a verb can in translation (to be able). If they can do it, they do it, even if you don't reproach them. THIS IS THEIR MORES - as they once wrote. Indeed, when a husband languishes in a bloody face, a visiting Frenchman meets his wife, a spicy lady. Once upon a time they were called to a duel for this. I think that a Frenchman need not be afraid. The husband, after getting out of prison, will most likely be happy with his happiness and will act like Bonacieux.
  7. hhhhhhh
    hhhhhhh 29 September 2020 10: 57
    +4
    It is necessary to make figures of Poles leading Jews to hand over to the Nazis for money.
    Poles expelling German women and children from their native land in 1945.

    No lies.
  8. Mihail55
    Mihail55 29 September 2020 10: 59
    +6
    You have to start with yourself! Koli from Urengoy did not fall from the sky. What's wrong with the old SOVIET films? Why are they shown only on Orthodox SPAS ???
    1. major147
      major147 29 September 2020 11: 25
      +2
      Quote: Michael55
      You have to start with yourself! Koli from Urengoy did not fall from the sky. What's wrong with the old SOVIET films? Why are they shown only on Orthodox SPAS ???

      On "Zvezda" they also show.
    2. sgapich
      sgapich 29 September 2020 12: 39
      0
      Quote: Michael55
      ... Why are they shown only at Orthodox SPAS ??? ...

      Fortunately, not only. The Mosfilm. Golden Collection channel has just appeared. I don’t know about broadcasting in the regions, but in Moscow and Novosibirsk it is.
    3. aglet
      aglet 30 September 2020 06: 35
      0
      "You have to start with yourself!"
      if there is a desire to watch, there are a lot of Soviet films of all genres on the Internet, see and if there is a desire to be indignant, be indignant, and everyone will know about it. You need to start with yourself
  9. Captain Pushkin
    Captain Pushkin 29 September 2020 11: 19
    0
    Quote: novel xnumx
    but it is necessary to release, do not wait for favors from nature

    And there are clearly not enough figures of Poles in service in the Wehrmacht and in the SS.
    To refresh your memory.
    1. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 29 September 2020 16: 41
      +1
      Quote: Captain Pushkin
      And there are clearly not enough figures of Poles in service in the Wehrmacht and in the SS.
      To refresh your memory.

      Like the "Georgian Legion"?
  10. Olddetractor
    Olddetractor 29 September 2020 11: 53
    -1
    The greatness of my country does not consist in exalting myself and humiliating others
    1. mikh-korsakov
      mikh-korsakov 29 September 2020 12: 19
      +2
      Dmitriy! The greatness of my country will come when people from other countries want to move to my country. Now there are such people - these are people from the Central Asian republics. For the most part, these are people of labor, although there are all kinds. But I'm not sure that it would be good if, I fantasize, suddenly prosperity came to the Russian Federation and the Poles wanted to come to us. These would have to be filtered. and under a magnifying glass. There are many rotten people there. And so - let yourself.
      1. Olddetractor
        Olddetractor 29 September 2020 12: 24
        +1
        In the eighties, Polish acquaintances told me that we live well. Our problem, they said, was. that we do not want to understand this
  11. Mihail55
    Mihail55 29 September 2020 12: 01
    +2
    Quote: major147
    On "Zvezda" they also show.

    Good day, Sergey! I agree, sometimes they show on the Star. But on the Savior all this became a regularity. Moreover, those who have not watched the evening movie are repeated the next day. It is very reminiscent of the get-togethers at TV in ancient times. One program and after TIME (it was then called differently) ... with the whole family wink It seems that the state, having thrown off the burden of responsibility for the economy (the market decides everything), does the same with ideology. And how long can emptiness exist in people's brains? And there is someone to hurry up to!
  12. sgapich
    sgapich 29 September 2020 12: 35
    +1
    Well, tree-sticks, it's so mediocre to advertise the "Star", which even in the best years riveted "models" from honestly bought second-hand Italier's matrices. The fact that they don't make plastic soldiers in our country now is complete nonsense. For every taste. In 2014-2015, I remember the "Polite People" sets were especially popular with foreign customers, they were ordered mainly from Japan and the USA. And for those interested, I recommend typing "resin kit" in the search. This topic is close to me, because in my free time I digitize these figures for 3D stanochek. (But at least you need to know the Compass. I'm not talking about Power Shape and Power Mill. And generally I am silent about CATIA)
    1. aglet
      aglet 30 September 2020 06: 40
      -1
      "(But at least you need to know the Compass. I'm not talking about Power Shape and Power Mill. And generally I am silent about CATIA)"
      I don’t understand, do you know them, or don’t you?
      1. sgapich
        sgapich 30 September 2020 19: 49
        0
        Quote: aglet
        I don’t understand, do you know them, or don’t you?

        I work in them. I hope you don't need to attach copies of the certificates? hi
        1. aglet
          aglet 1 October 2020 04: 03
          0
          do not need me unnecessarily. and certificates, and everything else. just wondering, are you using these programs at the same time? why know so many of them? after all, you probably have not a dozen CNC machines, one or two, no more, but your own, native program is sewn into the machine. why produce essences?
  13. BAI
    BAI 29 September 2020 17: 41
    0
    1.
    So I'm sure the Germans will never twitch.

    Never say never". The collapse of the USSR also seemed impossible.
    2.
    And, oddly enough, these two countries are much more closely related than it seems at first glance.

    Nothing brings two closer together like the rubbish of a third.
    3. Our rulers categorically do not want to know history (they remember only in words on holidays), therefore they do not see obvious things and always lose ideologically (and we are with them).
    1. Nosgoth
      Nosgoth 1 October 2020 11: 45
      0
      This makes no sense. The photo is generally an enchanting "show", such pictures can be pulled about any country.
  14. wow
    wow 29 September 2020 18: 47
    0
    I repeat once again - no more prisoners or wounded foes! Only a dead enemy does not shoot in the back ....
  15. Esoteric
    Esoteric 29 September 2020 19: 02
    +3
    All the same, it is not very clear, but where does Britain come from? Did they release this vileness? Fought badly? Well, as best they could, from September 1939, for which they had enough strength. They died under the bombing, in the skies over the English Channel, in Africa, conducted convoys, bombed Nazi Germany. It is clear that the Englishwoman crap, but she fought against Nazism, and their contribution to the overthrow of Germany is. Dunkirk? Few could stop the Wehrmacht at that time, a radical change occurred only after Stalingrad.
    Bismarck? Well, yes, the ship is outstanding, nothing really distinguished itself, except for the sinking of "Hood", and even then through the bungling of the Admiralty. The same pile of iron as the Yamoto. It is better to have ships worse, but bigger, which send these "wunderwaffe" to the bottom.
    And this abomination, let it remain on the conscience of this nasty little firm, if its employees have this conscience. They are scoundrels and scoundrels in Africa.
    1. Ingvar 72
      Ingvar 72 29 September 2020 20: 00
      0
      Quote: Ezoterik
      And this abomination, let it remain on the conscience of this nasty little firm

      This firm employs people, a product of the post-Soviet education system, geared towards educating a literate consumer. This is state policy, by the way, and it manifests itself in everything, from the exam, films about the penal battalion, to the boarded up mausoleum. hi
  16. Force multiplier
    Force multiplier 29 September 2020 20: 13
    +1
    This is how it works. Neighbor to neighbor. Kindred, I'm not afraid of this word, fraternal peoples living, in general, in the same house, and in the historical perspective being in the same boat, manipulators set against each other. Through their agents of influence, they "propagandize" unpleasant episodes of the common history and are engaged in its falsification. Some are told about the atrocities of the Poles against the captured Red Army soldiers. Others about the Red Army marauders. Some say how “we” defeated “the west” in the Braval battle (!), Others about the empire of the Lehites (aesthetes can type imperium lechitów on YouTube to enjoy). Everything is done so that everyone hates everyone, often not even on ethnic grounds, but on ethnic grounds - Poles, Russian Germans and Ukrainians, Russians - Germans, Poles and Ukrainians, etc. Recently, they tried to stir up hostility towards Belarusians. We are divided into teams and bumped against each other. And they themselves rub their hands on their island, because it is our "special Olympics" that gives them world domination
  17. tank64rus
    tank64rus 29 September 2020 20: 25
    +1
    There is an anonymous war going on. And here all means are good for Westerners. Well, our elite will remain silent, hypnotized, like a rabbit in front of a boa constrictor with its foreign accounts, property and the rest of its foreign guts.
  18. anjey
    anjey 29 September 2020 20: 59
    0
    Immediately I remembered the grotesque Polish film "Battle for Warsaw", where our Budenovites were shown by some gang of marauders what else can be expected from a nation of traders, prostitutes, thieves, adventurers of all stripes, always asking for something from Mother Bozka laughing
  19. Niel-le-Calais
    Niel-le-Calais 29 September 2020 22: 10
    0
    British. How did they differ at all? First received in France. Lost a bunch of their colonies in Asia. We lost more than a dozen ships from bombs and torpedoes of Japanese aviation. Singapore was shamefully surrendered, where 100 British troops surrendered to 30 Japanese. They fled from the Italo-German troops across Africa from Algeria to Egypt.
    In general, the whole fleet to sink the Bismarck and fight off German bombers in the skies of Britain - that's all the British could. The rest somehow does not fit into the asset.

    If Roman doesn't know the story of 2 MB well, how valuable is his opinion in this article?
    Ignorance breeds wrong conclusions.
    For the WB to win BzB (Battle of Britain) alone against the whole of Europe, as they like to say here on the site, is a feat. And they did it themselves.
    and a lot of other things, which the author did not consider it necessary to mention, or considered as insignificant or not independently.
    The British contributed greatly to the overall victory of the coalition.
    Begging and belittling the ability and actions of an ally in that war is low and unworthy.
    1. aglet
      aglet 30 September 2020 07: 29
      +1
      "For the WB to win BzB (Battle of Britain) alone against all of Europe, as they like to say here on the site, is a feat."
      Churchill called these air raids the battle for Britain. and the Germans did not fight for Britain - they bombed the south of England - ports, railways, factories, infrastructure. part of the tasks were completed, the population was especially successful, and the image of a tough enemy was fed, for which the civilian population later responded in the demolished to rubble German cities. when the losses of the Luftwaffe began to exceed the calculated ones, the Germans stopped this operation. And, by the way, about the loner against the whole of Europe, the Germans were helped by the best soldiers of the world - Italians, two squadrons. but their brave Britons also won.
      "The British contributed greatly to the overall victory of the coalition."
      what a victory, such a contribution. especially in Africa they fought well, with the Italians:
      "However, British forces continued to retreat and only stopped at Mersa Matruh. As a result, a gap of 130 kilometers (80 miles) was created between the warring parties. The British command avoided open combat."
      it was not the Germans who were connected yet, only their allies fought, the Italians and the French. And then for 3 years their Rommel drove all over North Africa, until the Americans connected and blocked the supply of the African corps.
      "To plead and belittle the ability and actions of an ally in that war is low and unworthy."
      it is low and unworthy to exalt the blown victories of the Britons, thereby belittling the feat and victory of the Soviet people
      1. Tavrik
        Tavrik 2 October 2020 23: 28
        0
        ... continued to retreat and stopped only at ...

        How many times can this phrase be applied to the Red Army?
        And which victories of Britain do you consider "hype" and which ones are "real"?
        1. aglet
          aglet 3 October 2020 07: 36
          0
          "How many times can this phrase be applied to the Red Army?"
          be that as it may, the Red Army entered Berlin and defeated Germany. and the shaves stood nearby, in Africa, Malaysia, but not in Germany.
          "And which victories of Britain do you consider" hype "and which -" real? "
          victories? el-alamein, tobruk? these epic battles at no one needed auls? nothing comes to mind
          1. Tavrik
            Tavrik 5 October 2020 17: 00
            0
            This is because you grossly ignore the significance of war at sea. This is not surprising for our land country. The British (together with the Americans) melted the German fleet together with the Italian. Why is it important? Because if they lost in the Mediterranean, the British would have lost Malta. And there is also North Africa, where behind the "auls that nobody needs" (the Germans, did they fight for unnecessary auls instead of Stalingrad?) There was a road to Iran. And there is the route of delivery of goods to the USSR. Well, I don't even want to talk about Turkey entering the war on Germany's side in this case. This is such a bleak geopolitical picture ...
            And the victory over these "useless auls" in North Africa made it possible for the Americans to land there and, further, transfer the hostilities to Italy with the withdrawal thereof from the war.
            Consider military actions not one-sidedly, but in all their diversity and interconnection of theaters. By the way, what if the Luftwaffe and torpedo boats with Kriegsmarine submarines were operating not in the Mediterranean, but in the Black Sea or in the north?
            1. aglet
              aglet 5 October 2020 17: 56
              0
              "And the victory at these" useless auls "in North Africa allowed the Americans to land there"
              Americans, in general, landed in Morocco, and in Tunisia, to El Alamein, oh, how far is 2600 km, and from there to Persia, there is still 3000 miles, there was no need for these auls to fight, only time to pull, but a form to do, we we are also at war.
              "By the way, what if the Luftwaffe and torpedo boats with Kriegsmarine submarines were operating not in the Mediterranean, but in the Black Sea or in the north?"
              why do you think that they would be in the Black Sea? rather, in the English Channel, and in the British sky, closer and more useful. and the gibraltar is very close there
              1. aglet
                aglet 5 October 2020 18: 11
                0
                "The British (together with the Americans) melted the German fleet together with the Italian"
                and what, the amersky navy fought with the Germans? They zhezh, basically, snatched away from the Japanese? and the German fleet, in the Mediterranean, as a bum, was not. Italians, yes, they got it, so they are famous warriors, just shaved on the shoulder
    2. andrew42
      andrew42 2 October 2020 12: 33
      +1
      The so-called "Battle of Britain" is nothing more than a figure of speech for intra-British propaganda that does little to reflect the extent and intensity of the confrontation. There was also "Strange War". Hastings 1066 is an example of a real "Battle of Britain"! Now, if the Nazis had landed at least five divisions on the islands, then we can talk about some kind of battle. At least the scale of El Alamein would do. Otherwise, no. I was especially touched by the "WB ... alone against the whole of Europe." Put the USSR instead of the WB, then it will be true. And the WB "alone" if it did anything, it began to feed Hitler (Austria, Czechoslovakia), and of course "alone" directed the Reich to Drang nach Osten. - this is truly hard work.
      1. Tavrik
        Tavrik 2 October 2020 23: 25
        0
        Those. Don't you see off-land fighting as a war? Is it necessary to "take out and lay down" the endless tank columns? Dozens of warships and hundreds of aircraft are not rolling. By the way, it was they who did not allow to land a single fascist on the islands and bring them to Hastings.

        "WB ... alone against the whole of Europe"

        oddly enough, but it happened. And if the WB is replaced by the USSR, it will be a falsification of history.
        And who fed Hitler, the topic is generally very slippery ... they can also remember all the bad things to us ...
        1. aglet
          aglet 3 October 2020 07: 44
          +1
          "Ie you do not perceive hostilities outside the land as a war?"
          is this operation catapult and the drowning of the bismarck war? and who fought with Hitler against England, except for the Itals and the French?
          "they can also remember us all the bad ..."
          well, for example? Munich? Dunkirk? the betrayal of Poland by the allies? what else? about the non-aggression pact and trade relations with germaniyu- not necessary. exactly such agreements were with the whole of Europe, and they traded with Germany, in general, everyone, including both America, and the entire war, until the victorious
        2. andrew42
          andrew42 5 October 2020 11: 23
          +1
          They were not allowed to drop off - this is too loud. If Hitler really needed to land the Wehrmacht in England, he would have done it, with losses - but he would have done it, no doubt. Another question is that Hitler was not raised for a campaign against Britain.
          1. Tavrik
            Tavrik 6 October 2020 13: 30
            0
            The peculiarity of amphibious operations is that landing is half the battle. It is more important to constantly provide him with everything he needs. It is not worth starting here without domination in the air and at sea. The British, Americans, Germans - they all understood this perfectly, so the Germans did not pry into the islands, and the allies landed only in 44. Otherwise, it's all adventures with a sad outcome. If in doubt, read how many of our troops have landed and with what results.
  20. Unknown
    Unknown 30 September 2020 08: 10
    +1
    our current pygmies from politics will never have the courage to respond to all ill-wishers as comrade STALIN ... PANEL AND SECRET FROM PREMIER JV STALIN TO THE PRIME MINISTER, Mr W. CHURCHILL

    Recently, I have received two messages from you on the Polish question and have familiarized myself with the statement of Mr. Kerr to VM Molotov, made on your instructions on the same question. I could not answer in a timely manner, since front affairs often distract me from non-military issues.

    I answer on questions.

    It is striking that both your messages and especially Kerr's statement are peppered with threats against the Soviet Union. I would like to draw your attention to this circumstance, since the method of threats is not only incorrect in the relations of allies, but also harmful, because it can lead to opposite results.

    In one of your messages you qualify the efforts of the Soviet Union in upholding and implementing the Curzon line as a policy of force. This means that you are now trying to qualify the Curzon line as unlawful, and the fight for it as unjust. I just cannot agree with this position. I cannot but recall that in Tehran you, the President and I agreed on the legality of the Curzon line.

    At that time you considered the position of the Soviet Government on this question absolutely correct, and you called the representatives of the Polish government in exile insane if they refused to accept Curzon's line. Now you are advocating something exactly the opposite. Does this mean that you do not recognize more than what we agreed on in Tehran, and thereby violate the Tehran agreement? I have no doubt that if you continued to firmly adhere to your position in Tehran, the conflict with the Polish government in exile would have already been resolved. As for me and the Soviet Government, we continue to adhere to the Tehran position and do not think to depart from it, because we believe that the implementation of the Curzon line is not a manifestation of a policy of force, but a manifestation of a policy of restoring the legitimate rights of the Soviet Union to those lands that even Curzon and The Supreme Council of the Allied Powers was recognized as non-Polish in 1919.

    You declare in your message of March 7 that the question of the Soviet-Polish border will have to be postponed until a conference on an armistice is called. I think we are dealing with some kind of misunderstanding here. The Soviet Union is not at war and does not intend to fight with Poland. The Soviet Union has no conflict with the Polish people and considers itself an ally of Poland and the Polish people. That is why the Soviet Union is shedding blood for the liberation of Poland from German oppression. Therefore, it would be strange to talk about an armistice between the USSR and Poland. But the Soviet Government has a conflict with the emigre Polish government, which does not reflect the interests of the Polish people and does not express their aspirations.

    It would be even stranger to identify with Poland the emigrant Polish government in London cut off from Poland. I find it difficult to even point out the difference between the emigre government of Poland and the same emigrant government of Yugoslavia, as well as between some generals of the Polish emigrant government and the Serbian general Mikhailovich.

    In your message of March 21, you inform that you intend to speak in the House of Commons with a statement that all questions of territorial changes should be postponed until an armistice or a peace conference of the victorious powers and that until then you cannot recognize any transfers of territories. produced by force. I understand this in such a way that you present the Soviet Union as a force hostile to Poland and in essence deny the liberating character of the Soviet Union's war against German aggression. This is tantamount to trying to ascribe to the Soviet Union what is not in practice, and thereby discredit it. I have no doubt that the peoples of the Soviet Union and world public opinion will perceive such your statement as an undeserved insult to the Soviet Union.

    Of course, you are free to make any speech in the House of Commons - this is your business. But if you make such a statement, I will consider that you have committed an act of injustice and unfriendliness towards the Soviet Union.

    In your message, you express the hope that the failure on the Polish issue will not affect our cooperation in other areas. As for me, I have stood and continue to stand for cooperation. But I am afraid that the method of threats and discrediting, if it continues in the future, will not be conducive to our cooperation.

    23 March 1944 Example ...............
  21. nikvic46
    nikvic46 30 September 2020 08: 41
    0
    The Poles have already forgotten what it means to be a winner. And the laws of war have not been canceled. The first echelon of the offensive, do what you want. Although the people of this echelon are concerned, if only to stay alive. The second echelon has already been tried for looting, violence. Everything was, and no need to apologize for that.
  22. andrew42
    andrew42 2 October 2020 12: 17
    0
    The headline is good. Especially about beads. It’s already on the tongue for about 10 years. Bogdan Stupka in the prologue "Taras Bulba" has already voiced and presented everything as it should. And there is no one to throw beads in front of anyone among the "collective West", and even more so in front of its odious "activists" with the Catholicism of the brain, the Balticism of highly cultured knightly villains, or the Ukrainianness of the Black Sea diggers. Moreover, it is necessary to regularly, mercilessly pull out all their historical nasty things, and poke their noses at them. The idea with a set of Bandera hangers is a masterpiece.
  23. Tavrik
    Tavrik 2 October 2020 23: 18
    0
    British. How did they differ at all? First received in France. Lost a bunch of their colonies in Asia. We lost more than a dozen ships from bombs and torpedoes of Japanese aviation. Singapore was shamefully surrendered, where 100 British troops surrendered to 30 Japanese. They fled from the Italo-German troops across Africa from Algeria to Egypt.
    In general, the whole fleet to sink the Bismarck and fight off German bombers in the skies of Britain - that's all the British could. The rest somehow does not fit into the asset.


    There were failures and victories. Let's measure the speed and range of our drape in 41 and the British in Africa. Or the area of ​​the surrendered territories with us and with them. In Singapore, 100 thousand surrendered 30 Japanese? Yes, only a little less were taken prisoner at Cape Chersonesos at 000m. Therefore, when savoring the failures of our allies, do not forget that for each of their defeat, ours too can be found.
    It is important that Britain did not surrender and for a year (from the fall of France to 22.06.41) fought alone with the Nazis on a heap of theaters. How many German ships, submarines and planes were sunk (shot down) before 22.06.41? But they could be on the Eastern Front and our seas. Bismarck, you say, "filled up" the entire fleet? Well, firstly, not to everyone, only by "improvised" forces, and secondly, the creation of numerical superiority is one of the indicators of military art. After fleeing to Egypt, there was an offensive in the opposite direction. At the same time, the British fleet skillfully melted the Italian and defended Malta. About the lost dozens of ships from the Japanese aviation - who is this about? Aircraft carrier Hermes, destroyer Vampir, battle cruiser Ripals, battleship Prince of Wales. From the big, it seems, everything ... And what has the Luftwaffe done in the Black Sea? And about their victories only with the help of the United States ... well, Duc, without the help of the United States it is not known what would have happened with us ...
    So it turns out that we see a speck in someone else's eye, but we don't notice a log in our own ...
    1. aglet
      aglet 3 October 2020 07: 50
      0
      "How many ships, submarines and planes of the Germans were sunk (shot down) before 22.06.41? But they could be on the Eastern Front and our seas."
      and how much? in Stalingrad alone, the Germans suffered more losses than in the entire previous war in the west
  24. Tavrik
    Tavrik 5 October 2020 16: 18
    0
    Quote: aglet
    and they traded with Germany, in general, everything

    Everyone traded, but only we carried out the German auxiliary cruiser along the Northern Sea Route. Those. while the British were sinking the Germans, we ensured the withdrawal of their warship to the theater of operations.
  25. Tavrik
    Tavrik 5 October 2020 17: 02
    0
    Quote: aglet
    who fought with Hitler against England, except for the Itals and the French

    Japan.
    1. aglet
      aglet 5 October 2020 18: 23
      0
      "who fought with Hitler against England, except for the Itals and the French
      Japan."
      oh yes, how could I forget, this is where there, in the sultry jungle of Malaysia, is it there that 100 thousand Britt surrendered 30 thousand Japanese? or where else? they gave up so often and epically that I'm already starting to get confused
      1. Tavrik
        Tavrik 6 October 2020 13: 25
        0
        You have heard something about the surrender of Singapore, about Dunkirk, and you persist in repeating it. It's like reducing the entire participation of the USSR in the war to the boilers of 41 and 42. They surrendered there no less often. It turns out one-sided and not objectively: we focus on victories, with them - on defeats. Well, yes, there was such a setback with Singapore. Yes, Repals, Hermes, Prince of Wales, Vampire were killed in that area. Why keep quiet about the participation of British ships in the defeat of the Japanese fleet? Said "A" and say "B".
        1. aglet
          aglet 6 October 2020 13: 45
          0
          we are talking about the war with the Germans, like bae. where does japan? although, yes, and the Japanese gave the thrush to the thrush, not only the Italians and the French. "However, the offensive in Burma at the end of 1942 ended in failure. Two offensive operations at the beginning of 1943 on the Arakan coast and in Central Burma did not lead to success either.
          Thus, in the hostilities in Burma, no decisive success was achieved. "This is a war on land, and the Britons organized the Pacific fleet in March 1945, so they did not do much there either, but the very fact of participation is important here, not so is it?
          1. Tavrik
            Tavrik 6 October 2020 14: 00
            0
            And the Italians and the French when the British were given a thrush?
            In general, you savor the defeat of our allies with such delight, not paying attention to their victories, that the question arises, on whose side are you?
            1. aglet
              aglet 7 October 2020 08: 49
              0
              "And the Italians with the French, when did they give the English a thrush?"
              and this is in Africa, even before the Germans pulled up there
              "which raises the question, which side are you on?"
              I am on the side of those who believe that the Soviet people made the biggest, main contribution to the victory over Germany. all the rest solved their own, small-town problems, stood nearby, and then cling to the laurels of the winners
  26. Tavrik
    Tavrik 6 October 2020 12: 59
    0
    Quote: aglet
    amersky navy fought with the Germans?

    He did not fight with large ships. There the British either melted everything or drove into the bases. But they fought pretty well with submarines. Incl. off the coast of the United States.
    1. aglet
      aglet 6 October 2020 13: 56
      0
      Well, yes, I remembered the grandiose battles off the coast of Florida. the Germans sunk a bunch of transports there, despite the heroic battles of the Amers with them. Old Ham even roman squeezed about these amazing battles, haven't you read it? but, unfortunately- "At the same time, the German naval forces did not lose in January-February 1942 a single submarine that participated in operations off the coast of the United States. The greatest successes were achieved by thirteen series IX boats sent in April 1942 to the Gulf of Mexico and Caribbean: The divers have broken all existing records, including sailing ships, they sank 95 vessels (including 26 tankers) with a total tonnage of 482 grt, averaging 843 vessels per boat. Each boat was at sea for 7,3 days on average. . On the German side, only one submarine was lost - U-76 .. "
      1. Tavrik
        Tavrik 6 October 2020 19: 38
        0
        Yes, at first it was bad, but the Americans quickly got their bearings, mobilized everything they could, and in May 42 the Germans lost more than 40 submarines. Per month! Don't know who sunk them?
        1. aglet
          aglet 7 October 2020 08: 59
          0
          "In May 42 the Germans lost more than 40 submarines. In a month! Do not know who sank them?"
          considering that for the whole of 1942, at all theaters, the Germans lost 86 boats, I don’t know. President Roosevelt, no?
  27. Tavrik
    Tavrik 6 October 2020 13: 52
    0
    Quote: aglet
    Americans, in general, landed in Morocco, and in Tunisia, to El Alamein, oh, how far is 2600 km, and from there to Persia, there is still 3000 miles, there was no need for these auls to fight, only time to pull, but a form to do, we we are also at war.

    You didn’t understand: if the British, together with the New Zealanders, Poles, and Australians, had fled from North Africa, then the Americans would not have landed in Tunisia. Then Malta surrenders, the British lose the Mediterranean. Then there was the effect of a house of cards with Turkey entering the war, blocking the Iranian corridor ... Then we only needed one more front ... The Armenian one. These are the seemingly worthless auls. And why did the Germans climb into Africa? Let the British sit there in deep defense ...
    1. aglet
      aglet 6 October 2020 14: 20
      0
      the Germans, in fact, helped out the Italians.
      "Malta surrenders further, the British lose the Mediterranean"
      Why did you decide that? The Italians are not such soldiers to conquer the Mediterranean from the Britons, and the German fleet was not there. and Turkey would not have entered anywhere, because when the Britons retreated before Alexandria, they did not enter, so the aul remains an aul, if you don’t exalt its role. and when the Germans, with all their might, were expelled from Africa, the war ended immediately?