Military Review

Juveniles from the high road: how to select a child

100
Juveniles from the high road: how to select a child

Source: park72.ru


Not to look nervous!


Almost every city in Russia can tell creepy stories with the forced removal of children from disadvantaged families. Of course, for the most part, this is a completely justified fact: parents at least do not fulfill their duties, and in extreme cases they beat and starve. But there is also a downside to the work of the guardianship authorities. And there are many examples of this.

May 2020. Village Tulip, Orenburg region. The entire Internet has spread around video, which is really not recommended for the faint of heart.

The guardianship authorities, together with law enforcement officers, seized three young children from a married couple. Among the complaints were unsatisfactory living conditions for children, it was noted that wallpaper was not pasted. Indeed, the decor in the home is not the most sophisticated, but this is far from being a reason to barbarously take away crying children and handcuff their mother. According to the logic of representatives of juvenile justice, with the same success it is possible to take children away from every second or third large family: families in Russia clearly do not become richer at the birth of children. The scandal that broke out led to the dismissal of the head of the district and a close inspection of the activities of the security forces. As a result, after the showdown, the children were returned to the unfortunate mother, and the benefactors purchased a house in Orsk for a large family. This story ended happily largely due to the video footage left after the arrest. But how many of these barbaric seizures of children "with the best of intentions" passed by video recording and remained without punishment?


Source: gosuslugi-official.help

In the village of Kormovishche, Perm Territory, at the end of May this year, the police department for minors and local guardianship authorities took three children from the family. All this happened in the midst of a pandemic, so the parents could not get adequate comments until the end of the summer - they explained everything by the paralysis of document circulation due to quarantine. Only by September, the Ural journalists managed to knock out information from law enforcement officers regarding the reasons for the seizure of children, the youngest of whom is only three years old. As it turned out, the guardianship with the police left at the signal of local paramedics, who pointed to child abuse. According to the guardianship authorities, the children had abrasions on their faces and bruises on their bodies. The father claims that his family did not even belong to the category of dysfunctional, although it was under the supervision of social protection. Now children are in the Center for Assistance to Minors and, obviously, the end of this story is still far away. It would seem that everything here is quite transparent: there is indirect evidence of child abuse, unsatisfactory (according to the guardianship) living conditions and an elementary shortage of food in the refrigerator. However, it is striking how parents are limited in their rights. Based on the private opinion of the paramedic examining children, not supported by the conclusion of at least some kind of examination, the entire children are taken away from their parents for several months. Moreover, the law does not require a court decision - social services can select children even without consulting the courts.


Source: cdn.iz.ru

Outrageous cases of child abuse often remain out of sight of juvenile justice. From year to year, we meet in the media the terrible stories of feral children whom their parents kept with pets and fed scraps. In Ufa, in 2009, the girl lived for several years with dogs and her mother who was drinking heavily. A year earlier in Volgograd, a 7-year-old boy was removed from his family, who never left the house and did not communicate with anyone except canaries and parrots. In 2018 in Chita, five-year-old Natasha Mikhailova ate out of the same bowl with dogs and cats for several years. The child completely lacked social communication skills, she could only meow and bark, and in terms of development, she remained at the age of two. At the same time, five of her relatives lived in the house. In all these cases, the guardianship authorities either did not take the necessary measures, or did not even know about the nightmare that was happening on the territory of the municipality.

At the same time, a number of cases speaks simply of the hypervigilance of the guardians of the social well-being of minors. In St. Petersburg, a few years ago, a child returned home from school and, not finding his parents, went for a walk around the city. The guardianship authorities somehow found out about the situation and in the evening they safely took the child out of the family. It took the parents several weeks to prove that there was no intent in their action to harm their son.

In order to voluntarily and forcibly place a child under the care of social services, parents just need to find outdated foodstuffs in their fridge, a lack of toys for the child, the absence of a separate room, scare the neighbors with a loud cry of the baby, leave the child with grandparents, and find bruises on the child's body. It is often possible to return a child to a family only through a court, and this requires lawyers, whose services cost a lot.

A little about the most unpleasant side of the activities of juvenile justice. In Novosibirsk, in 2016, a large family for several months was terrorized by the local guardianship with threats to take the children away. It seemed like a common story involving dirt in the apartment, empty refrigerators and circumstantial evidence of abuse. But here everything turned out to be unusual. A former police officer who turned into businessmen decided to put pressure on his father with many children through old connections in the guardianship authorities and ask him to move in his interests. The story turned out to be very resonant for the region and opened up new facets of juvenile justice.

State Duma against


Of course, what is happening in a country with juvenile justice is still far from the idiocy that is happening in some Western countries. For example, in Scandinavia, the practice is still used when a minor can be taken away from the family simply for a complaint about bad food. But something must be done with domestic barbaric methods of extrajudicial removal of children. In the State Duma this summer, a bill was considered, according to which it will not be so easy to take a child at the disposal of the guardianship authorities. Most importantly, now it will not be the specialists of the juvenile justice authorities that will decide the issue of removing the child from the family, but the judges - these are people who are much more competent in this area. At least, I really want to believe in this. And only with a court decision in hand, social services will have the right to interfere in intra-family relations. Maybe the head of one of the districts of the Orenburg region would not have had to resign after the ill-fated seizure of three children - after all, it was he who signed the decree of the guardianship authorities. If the law is passed, judges will be guided by conditions that directly threaten the life and health of the child. In this regard, the lawmakers comment:

“We are talking, in particular, about the lack of child care that meets his physiological needs in accordance with age and health. For example, a high degree of physical exhaustion of a child and the failure to provide him with water, food for a long time, lack of care for an infant, or leaving him alone for a long time, unattended. The real degree of danger to a child should be determined in each specific case, taking into account the age, state of health, as well as other circumstances of his residence. "



Source: duma.gov.ru

I must say that the initiatives of the State Duma will add work to prosecutors. In extreme conditions, when a child's life can be cut short in a matter of hours, a representative of the prosecutor's office and a police officer will go to the family with the guardianship. And only in such a composition will they be able to confiscate the child to save his life. For example, when a minor is emaciated and this is visible with the naked eye, and not if the refrigerator is empty, as it seemed to the social worker. The solution to the problem seems to have been found, and it looks quite decent on paper. It remains to be hoped that the law, firstly, will reduce the barbarity on the part of social services, and secondly, it will not force the guardianship to turn a blind eye to really egregious cases of child abuse in families. Still, now, to start the procedure for the removal of children from sadistic parents, you will have to go to court.
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  1. Grandfather
    Grandfather 30 September 2020 05: 53 New
    25
    punish, take away, prohibit is in our state, please! but help the people like that ... what are you.
    1. Van 16
      Van 16 30 September 2020 06: 09 New
      24
      "punish, take away, forbid"
      Moreover, in this case, it is just some officials who decide with a stroke of the pen, and to prove that you are not a camel is only through court. And what kind of judges we have is a separate conversation ..
    2. siberalt
      siberalt 30 September 2020 06: 45 New
      32
      Here it is interesting not so who and how the "guardianship authorities" are taking care of, but who and how they take care of. The same invisible hand is at work as in education, healthcare and lending to the construction industry. enterprises. The whole system is focused on buy and sell. Children are also a commodity. Full impressions of the secret government. At the same time, no one hears the voice of the people at all. Down with the juvenile, lapdog and LGBT! Russia has no future with them. Millions of signatures of citizens have been collected against the juvenile and lie on the president's table. But there is no answer.
      1. Tank jacket
        Tank jacket 30 September 2020 06: 49 New
        +1
        Juvenile was invented to select children and give them to same-sex couples, sexual slavery and organs.
    3. Reptiloid
      Reptiloid 30 September 2020 08: 03 New
      12
      Quote: Dead Day
      punish, take away, prohibit is in our state, please! but help the people like that ... what are you.

      Well yes! Well, yes! Tatyana Kovinskaya, secretary of the Volsky MS of the Saratov region, proposed to deprive "unemployed parasites" of all payments from the state. We are talking about a monthly allowance of 12130 rubles and an additional 3000 for each child
      ..... why should they work with such payments! We need to offer work, if they don’t want to, we need to deprive them of benefits ...

      "Volskaya Pravda" and other newspapers quoted these words. Her income is on average more than 81000 rubles per month, .....
      1. yehat2
        yehat2 30 September 2020 10: 01 New
        +6
        stupid fool does not even understand why benefits are paid.
    4. Vladimir Vladimirovich S
      Vladimir Vladimirovich S 30 September 2020 10: 12 New
      +2
      Nope, they help a few, so that they can then trumpet it in the media ...
    5. Vend
      Vend 30 September 2020 10: 31 New
      -4
      Quote: Dead Day
      punish, take away, prohibit is in our state, please! but help the people like that ... what are you.

      For such actions, juveniles have no rights under the law, as that all actions are illegal. So there is no need to rivet on the state, it is actually from the west the wind blows. Juvenile justice is evil.
      1. Alf
        Alf 30 September 2020 13: 54 New
        +6
        Quote: Wend
        So there is no need to rivet on the state,

        Does the West adopt these laws in Russia?
        1. Vend
          Vend 30 September 2020 14: 49 New
          -4
          Quote: Alf
          Quote: Wend
          So there is no need to rivet on the state,

          Does the West adopt these laws in Russia?

          And there is no Russian law on juvenile justice, they are trying to promote it, just ask who.
          1. Ingvar 72
            Ingvar 72 30 September 2020 21: 00 New
            +3
            Quote: Wend
            they are trying to promote it, ask who.

            Members of United Russia go? No?
      2. Ingvar 72
        Ingvar 72 30 September 2020 20: 58 New
        +5
        Quote: Wend
        as that all actions are illegal.

        Have you ever heard of the complete disregard of the law by representatives of the authorities? belay Well then, try to buy something in the store without a mask. wink
        Governors' decrees contradict the RF Federal Law. And the government, instead of bringing the regulations in line with the Federal Law, directs all administrative resources to support the law.
        According to the article, the farce of specialized services that take children from families instead of helping them is disgusting. At the same time, when children live in orphanages in very controversial conditions, while the state allocates more than 70.000 rubles. per month for each child.
      3. Revival
        Revival 5 October 2020 12: 06 New
        0
        Aha, do not rivet on the state !?
        That is, they do not act according to the law, according to yours.
        And where is the state?
        His direct task is to plant them in this case.
        Planted !? Found a state?
    6. Aleks2048
      Aleks2048 30 September 2020 15: 38 New
      -2
      punish, take away, prohibit is in our state, please! but help the people like that ... what are you.

      And the state helps the people as well ... which by the way is not typical for a capitalist state. Although you can turn to the classics, for example, to the definition of what a state is to Marx and Engels.
  2. Asad
    Asad 30 September 2020 06: 01 New
    15
    The neighbor left for Finland with her daughter, the girl quickly gained Western values, and, when she refused to buy her a phone, knocked the authorities on her mother! Type badly brought up, taken to an orphanage, three months beluga roared, home was not allowed!
    1. Grandfather
      Grandfather 30 September 2020 06: 05 New
      +8
      Quote: ASAD
      A neighbor left for Finland with her daughter

      natives of Russia spread rot for any reason in any Western country. Genetic dislike.
      1. yehat2
        yehat2 30 September 2020 10: 04 New
        +6
        how will you be treated in a team if someone constantly tells all sorts of nasty things about you? There is no genetic level here - just propaganda.
        The same Finns in the 50s and 70s were completely normal about Russians
        1. Grandfather
          Grandfather 30 September 2020 11: 05 New
          0
          Quote: yehat2
          The same Finns in the 50s and 70s were completely normal about Russians

          unfortunately not, I was on the "Komsomol ticket" I know.
      2. Hypertension
        Hypertension 30 September 2020 11: 02 New
        +1
        Quote: Dead Day
        natives of Russia spread rot for any reason in any Western country. Genetic dislike.

        Rather, on cultural and everyday life. Probably, since Soviet times, the West stuck with the idea that every "Russian" has a rank in the KGB.
    2. Maki Avellevich
      Maki Avellevich 1 October 2020 06: 43 New
      +1
      Quote: ASAD
      The neighbor left for Finland with her daughter, the girl quickly gained Western values, and, when she refused to buy her a phone, knocked the authorities on her mother! Type badly brought up, taken to an orphanage, three months beluga roared, home was not allowed!

      probably returned silk. now only Morse code with her friends is tapped.
  3. parusnik
    parusnik 30 September 2020 06: 05 New
    11
    It is sad, there is no future, neither for adults, nor for children. Demographics cannot be raised with the ruble, but stability.
  4. nikvic46
    nikvic46 30 September 2020 06: 14 New
    14
    Yesterday I read this phrase. “Politics without culture is a crime.” I think here we need to add the normal attitude of a person to a person. If you look into our distant past, then, according to the new ideas about childhood, many would have thundered into orphanages.
    1. g1washntwn
      g1washntwn 30 September 2020 07: 40 New
      18
      Quote: nikvic46
      If you look into our distant past, then according to the new ideas about childhood, many would have thundered into orphanages.

      Exactly. From my childhood, I figured that they would send us all without exception. In refrigerators - almost a rolling ball. He jumped in - gnawed at the bread from the bread, picked potatoes from the frying pan, drank from the tap and back out into the street. The bruises and scratches did not have time to heal. Parents on shifts at factories, more often saw sleeping. Just a juvenile paradise.
      1. Alexey RA
        Alexey RA 30 September 2020 09: 49 New
        +9
        Quote: g1washntwn
        Just a juvenile paradise.

        Uh-huh ... one left the house, one (through two avenues, some kind of horror) reached the school, one returned from school to an empty apartment, to the arrival of his parents (three or four hours after arriving from school) he warmed up food .. .cries bitter tears for the Soviet family. smile
        1. g1washntwn
          g1washntwn 30 September 2020 09: 54 New
          +6
          And if you also prescribed vitamin "P" for your cause - immediately turmoil.
          1. Vladimir Vladimirovich S
            Vladimir Vladimirovich S 30 September 2020 10: 18 New
            0
          2. Alexey RA
            Alexey RA 30 September 2020 10: 30 New
            +5
            Quote: g1washntwn
            And if you also prescribed vitamin "P" for your cause - immediately turmoil.

            Uuuy ... don't remind me.
            My father somehow soldered an amplifier, which had speaker connectors for a regular mains plug. And then I made the speakers - but I didn't connect them right away, but threw the wires from them (with plugs) to lie next to the amplifier and the outlet. Well, I and that ... included them. 220 volts. Both. smile
            1. Alf
              Alf 30 September 2020 13: 58 New
              0
              Quote: Alexey RA
              Quote: g1washntwn
              And if you also prescribed vitamin "P" for your cause - immediately turmoil.

              Uuuy ... don't remind me.
              My father somehow soldered an amplifier, which had speaker connectors for a regular mains plug. And then I made the speakers - but I didn't connect them right away, but threw the wires from them (with plugs) to lie next to the amplifier and the outlet. Well, I and that ... included them. 220 volts. Both. smile

              It hurt ?
              1. Alexey RA
                Alexey RA 1 October 2020 11: 21 New
                0
                Quote: Alf
                It hurt ?

                It hurts and hurts: all I did was plug the power plug into the power outlet. request
                My father, however, did not make more such mistakes - the following speakers came with a standard 5-pin connector.
                1. Alf
                  Alf 1 October 2020 19: 07 New
                  0
                  Quote: Alexey RA
                  My father, however, did not make more such mistakes - the following speakers came with a standard 5-pin connector.

                  Did your father not allow it? Or are you after using a single pin buckle leather connector? laughing
          3. Alf
            Alf 30 September 2020 13: 57 New
            +5
            Quote: g1washntwn
            And if you also prescribed vitamin "P" for your cause - immediately turmoil.

            From the textbook Entertaining Mechanics.
            THE TRANSFER of life experience from the OLDER generation to the YOUNGER occurs by the BELT. laughing
            1. Alexey RA
              Alexey RA 1 October 2020 11: 17 New
              +2
              Quote: Alf
              THE TRANSFER of life experience from the OLDER generation to the YOUNGER occurs by the BELT.

              Drive belt: if you don't come home from the yard for a long time, they show it from the balcony. © smile
              1. Alf
                Alf 1 October 2020 19: 09 New
                +2
                Quote: Alexey RA
                Quote: Alf
                THE TRANSFER of life experience from the OLDER generation to the YOUNGER occurs by the BELT.

                Drive belt: if you don't come home from the yard for a long time, they show it from the balcony. © smile

                Moreover, everyone who saw him began to think of him as acting against himself. Then the dads-moms did not rust this business, it could have gotten both to the instigator himself ... And, most importantly, the neighbour's parents had nothing against it. laughing
        2. Van 16
          Van 16 30 September 2020 11: 26 New
          +5
          Quite right. They took me to school once, for the first time in the first grade, then all by myself. Plus knees always ripped off on the asphalt and other joys of childhood, where can we go without them. smile
      2. Alf
        Alf 30 September 2020 13: 55 New
        +4
        Quote: g1washntwn
        Exactly. From my childhood, I figured that they would send us all without exception. In refrigerators - almost a rolling ball. He jumped in - gnawed at the bread from the bread, picked potatoes from the frying pan, drank from the tap and back out into the street. The bruises and scratches did not have time to heal. Parents on shifts at factories, more often saw sleeping. Just a juvenile paradise.

        And the parents did not even know where the devils carry us all day.
    2. Grandfather
      Grandfather 30 September 2020 11: 07 New
      +4
      Quote: nikvic46
      many would have thundered into orphanages.

      almost everything ... I would-for sure. parents are at work all the time, educators are all neighbors. and he took away from them, and gingerbread. Yes, in general, everyone lived like that, and this is universal participation in education, when for the "bad" - the slap on the back, and for the good - the "dumb", bore fruit, there were no "other people's children". We were the People, Tribesmen .. ...
  5. Far B
    Far B 30 September 2020 06: 18 New
    14
    “Have children,” they said. “Improve your demographics,” they said. State stupidity: by not providing parents with the opportunity to adequately provide for the lives of their children, officials hope to raise the birth rate ...
    In extreme conditions, when a child's life can end in a matter of hours
    Such extreme conditions are not at all about the guardianship and guardianship authorities, as it were.
  6. samarin1969
    samarin1969 30 September 2020 06: 29 New
    +2
    The author raised a contrived topic. I come across children suffering from "would-be parents" every day: hungry, untreated, with developmental problems, etc. But I have never heard of "evil juveniles" AT ALL !!! These "kidneppers" come to the "signals" and invariably state wonderful living conditions. The same story with children who have "socialization problems" ....
    The state is trite to save on special schools, boarding schools.
    ps If there is a "withdrawal" anywhere, it is probably only the "administrative resource" of competing parents.
    Do not create another myth. There are much more real "childish" problems in the Russian Federation.
    1. nnm
      nnm 30 September 2020 06: 39 New
      -2
      I agree with you. Plus, I don't understand the author's enthusiasm for involving judges in this issue. After all, it is the care workers who are experts in this matter. And so they still have to go to court, wait, prove, and so on. But this is the time, and during this time the child will continue to eat from the same bowl with the cats. It seems that guardianship should have the right to remove the child with a subsequent trial, and not after its decision.
      1. lucul
        lucul 30 September 2020 07: 14 New
        13
        After all, it is the care workers who are specialists in this matter.

        Do you even have your own children? Juvenalka bypasses problem children and children of alcoholics for a kilometer, she just doesn't see any violations there. But if you have a genetically healthy and strong child, then there is a high chance that she will come to you ...
        1. nnm
          nnm 30 September 2020 07: 19 New
          +3
          I do not like these generalizations. Especially from those who do not work in this system themselves. I think workers, like all other people, are very different.
          You were rightly told above - it is more correct to discuss the construction of shelters, improving the quality of living, education in them, employment issues, etc.
          Quote: lucul
          But if you have a genetically healthy and strong child, then there is a high chance that she will come to you ...

          - an extremely dubious statement. None of the acquaintances, somehow, did not even come once.
          1. lucul
            lucul 30 September 2020 07: 24 New
            +3
            an extremely dubious statement. None of the acquaintances, somehow, did not even come once.

            It is enough to go to the forums dedicated to this problem - it will open your eyes how the juvenile work. This is just a punitive body, a child can be taken from any family, on a far-fetched occasion.
            And so, if you don't touch it, then yes, everything is beautiful on paper ...
            1. nnm
              nnm 30 September 2020 07: 27 New
              0
              You know, it's like listening to those who are sitting - well, there is not a single culprit. Repression is cleaner for 37 years.
              I mean that it is necessary to discuss each specific case and not from words, but strictly according to documents and facts
              1. lucul
                lucul 30 September 2020 07: 29 New
                +6
                You know, it's like listening to those who are sitting - well, there is not a single culprit.

                Listen to those who are registered and to whom the juvenile comes with a check.
                And the question is - why doesn't the juvenile take children from families where both parents are alcoholics?
                1. tank64rus
                  tank64rus 30 September 2020 12: 27 New
                  +4
                  What to take from them, and the juvenile is a business, disgusting, but profitable. Moreover, it is impossible to grab a criminal who is hiding behind the name of the state by the hand.
                2. Aleks2048
                  Aleks2048 30 September 2020 15: 44 New
                  0
                  question - why does the juvenile girl not take children from families where both parents are alcoholics?

                  I will answer you with your words, they are mothers.
                  But the question about those registered about the reasons for their statement looks much more interesting.
      2. g1washntwn
        g1washntwn 30 September 2020 07: 25 New
        +6
        Juvenile workers interpret "unbearable and dangerous conditions for the child" as they want. They may not notice outright sadism, or they may take away children for the absence of sausages in the refrigerator. The position of the courts on this issue is “there is no reason not to trust the testimony”. The victims must run themselves and prove that they are not camels. Considering that today it is necessary to plow like a horse to ensure a decent human standard of living, this is highly problematic.
        The most atrocious cases are the inaction of the organs themselves. If a child is not seen either in kindergartens, or in schools, or in hospitals, this is already a signal for an extraordinary check of families. And with us, everything, as usual, turns out completely by accident or from caring citizens. It is easier for a juvenile to select children once, than to constantly keep things under control and engage in precisely helping such families. Therefore, I do not rule out deliberate inaction for the subsequent removal of children.
      3. Nyrobsky
        Nyrobsky 30 September 2020 10: 08 New
        +5
        Quote: nnm
        It seems that guardianship should have the right to remove the child with a subsequent trial, and not after its decision.

        Yes, but at the same time, representatives of the guardianship should also know that in the event of an unlawful removal of the child, they are subject to jurisdiction and can ring out on the bunk. The parity of interests of the state and the citizen will be respected only if there is responsibility for the decision, but for now for them "everything is like water off a duck's back."
        1. Aleks2048
          Aleks2048 30 September 2020 15: 52 New
          -2
          Yes, but at the same time, representatives of the guardianship should also know that in the event of an unlawful removal of the child, they are subject to jurisdiction and can ring out on the bunk.

          I wonder what salary our state can offer for such a risk?
          For example, for judges who are also criminally responsible for decisions made, the amount of payments to a federal judge can and often reaches more than 500 thousand per month. Maybe then it’s easier for them not to confiscate anyone and let everything settle down by itself ... why take risks in a grain place? Children are dying ... But there will be no responsible. By the way, besides the salary, it is curious how many families, children or a person will have to serve one employee? In other words, what should be the load?
          1. Ingvar 72
            Ingvar 72 30 September 2020 21: 06 New
            0
            Quote: Alex2048
            I wonder what salary our state can offer for such a risk?

            What's the risk? Need to do your job responsibly?
            No, in our country there are definitely all the problems from the lack of inevitability of responsibility for their work.
            1. Aleks2048
              Aleks2048 1 October 2020 07: 55 New
              -1
              Need to do your job responsibly?

              Responsibility should, like any service, be properly paid. Or are you one of those who are used to ordering music for a freebie for a million, but paying a penny?
              1. Ingvar 72
                Ingvar 72 1 October 2020 08: 28 New
                0
                The question was different - what is the risk of employees of the guardianship authorities?
                Regarding responsibility, this is not a service, but a fundamental principle that should work in any area, be it services, production, medicine, and even politics.
                Now this principle does not work, and at the suggestion of the top officials of the state. And downstairs they work carelessly on the basis of the thesis "How they pay, so I work." This is wrong, because it leads to a regression of the economy and morality in society. hi
                1. Aleks2048
                  Aleks2048 1 October 2020 08: 37 New
                  +1
                  The question was different - what is the risk of employees of the guardianship authorities?

                  Have you heard about autos? In general, in any place there is a risk when making decisions. You raised the bar for their responsibility when making decisions to the point of imprisonment. So the responsibility is high, and the income must match. Figuratively speaking, try to offer the salary of a gazelist to an international furist and he, without being clever, will tell you what the responsibility is and where to go.
                  Now this principle does not work, and at the suggestion of the top officials of the state. And downstairs they work carelessly on the basis of the thesis "How they pay, so I work."
                  Now capitalism and here is just the norm as they pay and work. And the fact that the top decision-makers have no demand for these decisions is really a problem, and the lower classes, seeing this, act similarly to the top. The fish rots from the head.
                  1. Ingvar 72
                    Ingvar 72 1 October 2020 08: 48 New
                    0
                    Quote: Alex2048
                    The fish rots from the head

                    Alas, this is the root cause. And sometimes it seems to me that this system was created deliberately, and with specific goals.
                    PS Regarding responsibility - in the 30s of the last century in Germany there was a problem of hares in trams. Not because the ticket was expensive, just people were not used to paying. Several shot hares solved the problem. After that, the tram travel rate was 100%
                    1. Aleks2048
                      Aleks2048 1 October 2020 09: 23 New
                      0
                      And sometimes it seems to me that this system was created deliberately, and with specific goals.

                      It seems to me that you are narrowing the problem a little. This system is now in most of the world and it is called capitalism with social elements. It is just that the shortcomings of this system are now being revealed, which are struck by an elementary lack of resources. All this worked fine from the late 50s to the 80s and 90s, most were pretty and ... period. All somehow forgot during this time that capitalism is cruel to the poor. The very concept of poverty is different in absolute terms for different countries. Somewhere in the bowl the stew is thin, but somewhere the phone is not an iPhone. The availability of information, the development of science and the service sector with advertising became the trigger that launched the process of self-sufficiency of an individual. In reality, today if a person is physically healthy, then he is able to satisfy all his needs without having a family. And various social programs allow people who are not in general to make seemingly fatal mistakes. That undoubtedly removes the degree of responsibility for their decisions and continues to produce those who are not adapted.
          2. intuzazist
            intuzazist 1 October 2020 17: 46 New
            0
            Judges are criminally responsible for the decisions taken ?! From this place it is possible in more detail? !!! Yes, the biggest punishment for a judge is deprivation of the judge's robe! But for this, the judge must try sooooooo !!!!! And so, for unlawful decisions, they are summoned for analysis and reprimanded, released ...
            1. Aleks2048
              Aleks2048 1 October 2020 17: 58 New
              0
              Statistics and the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation will help you. wink
      4. ghby
        ghby 30 September 2020 12: 39 New
        0
        Quote: nnm
        Plus, I don't understand the author's enthusiasm for involving judges in this issue. After all, it is the care workers who are experts in this matter.
        Firstly, the consideration of the custody application by the court can make it quick, but the very consideration will allow parents whose children are undeservedly taken to defend themselves and not mentally traumatize their children with the withdrawal. The article also states that there are cases of seizure without a trial - just in the situations you describe, but with the involvement of a prosecutor. In this I see a balance - a threat to life and health - immediate seizure, followed by a review of the legality of the seizure in court, in other cases through the court.
        1. Aleks2048
          Aleks2048 1 October 2020 07: 51 New
          0
          Firstly, court consideration of a guardianship application can make it quick

          Russian court and fast are not compatible.
          1. ghby
            ghby 1 October 2020 09: 25 New
            0
            Quote: Alex2048
            Firstly, court consideration of a guardianship application can make it quick

            Russian court and fast are not compatible.

            In vain you are so, in some moments the court is very fast. Even too fast.
            1. Aleks2048
              Aleks2048 1 October 2020 09: 38 New
              0
              Legislatively, the lawsuit is not fast. To begin with, the court is not busy collecting evidence. And here in the comments, some suggest carrying out and providing the judge with expert examinations. By the way, a psychological and psychiatric examination that can answer the question of whether the mental development corresponds to the age of the subject is carried out according to the methodology in a hospital and lasts 28 days, not to mention the length of the queue for it. So why don't you think of a fast construction project? Yes, only the collection of documents for it will take at least a month in a good version. But it is the construction expertise that can answer the questions about the suitability of a home for living. So that there are no interpretations about non-glued wallpaper, as in the article. And without these documents, the judge will actually make a decision blindly and why is he needed then?
        2. Aleks2048
          Aleks2048 1 October 2020 09: 40 New
          0
          But the consideration itself will allow parents whose children are undeservedly taken to defend themselves and not mentally traumatize children with the withdrawal.

          Expertise costs money and is not at all small.
      5. Simargl
        Simargl 30 September 2020 20: 52 New
        -1
        Quote: nnm
        But this is the time, and during this time the child will continue to eat from the same bowl with the cats.
        Do not juggle! Family relationships are a process, not a suddenly met bully!
        And the process can and should be controlled from birth: the same visits to the pediatrician, the results of which can tell a lot. But even a single assumption cannot be proof! Otherwise, all men can be recorded as rapists, and women as workers in the internecine space. Go for it.
        1. Aleks2048
          Aleks2048 1 October 2020 07: 50 New
          +1
          Do not distort!

          And they gave you a very specific example ... Where is it more vital ...?
          And the process can and should be controlled from birth: the same visits to the pediatrician, the results of which can tell a lot.

          Can we also appoint a specific day for the parents' report to the juvenile system? And if you do not appoint, then suspicions may arise that the family avoids communication and does not provide the child for examination, when at the next sudden visit of representatives of the juvenile system for the family, the parents will be at work, and the child is walking on the street or even cooler in the library. fool
    2. lucul
      lucul 30 September 2020 07: 19 New
      +5
      But about the "evil juveniles" I have not heard AT ALL !!!

      Do you live on Mars? It is enough to register the family, and when checking, there will be enough grounds for withdrawal, such as not enough food in the refrigerator (1st, 2nd, 3rd), even if you just arrived from the dacha where you stayed with your family for 2 days , and have not had time to cook anything yet.
      I repeat - the juvenile always bypasses the alcoholic family, they do not care about them at all. Although logically, it was created against such families.
      1. Aleks2048
        Aleks2048 30 September 2020 07: 50 New
        +6
        I read the article and comments. I think that since there is a discussion, there is a problem, including with the competence of employees of the juvenile system. However, the absurd optimism from the participation of the judge, who generally none of the participants, except for the child, who, as expected, will say "I want to go home to my mother" and the parents chewing snot are quite clearly aware of the material component when the child is removed in the form of a possible loss of social benefits and receiving duties instead alimony payments, do not share. The question is what is meant by inappropriate parenting? Dad sometimes weighed out a slap on the head especially (or not a particularly appropriate question) to an inactive child or, on the contrary, to an overly zealous child, but in activities that are not normal by parental standards? But such a dad is quite sure that he does everything right by hanging his head on the head, and even his wife may well think that dad is raising a child so positively. On the other hand, parents who simply do not care what and how their child is busy. There are too many nuances. There are too many options. In general, it seems to me that this is the problem of Russia and not only Russia in the absence of a normal economic basis for the preservation of the family as the basis for citizens' living in society. The stratification into rich and poor is too great. I would say that it is not even about different poles, but about different planets. The fact that for the poor is not just a norm, but a way of survival, is not at all acceptable for the rich and vice versa. Lost or everything goes to the fact that the economic basis for uniting people into a family will be lost. In fact, the family was a response to the objectively existing economic situation in society, more or less guaranteeing the survival of the individual and raising offspring. Now the family is turning from a way to survive into a burden for the individual, at least if physically everything is fine with him. Hence the problem with children, they turn from the result of family life into a mechanism for the breakdown of the family and a way of influencing one parent on another. And then the state is trying to level everyone up and correct the demography.
    3. aybolyt678
      aybolyt678 30 September 2020 08: 48 New
      +3
      Quote: samarin1969
      The author raised a contrived topic.

      They did not take my children away, but there was arbitrariness. I sold housing where the children had shares, bought a new one where I allocated shares to children. In the first housing the children had 1/10 in the second too. Only the area there in the first case is 90 squares in the second 311m. square .. demanded. BUT they do not feel sorry for their children, the problem is that they simultaneously demanded to open an account for children and put a duplicate amount there on children. Also not a pity, but there is an element of arbitrariness - a double burden. The children received both real estate and money, the catch is that for a year I have not been able to use this money, there is a complicated procedure. I can formally buy furniture or a computer for a child, but each purchase must be coordinated with the guardianship. And money is depreciated !!! I cannot even invest in the improvement of the territory of this house! but they are the owners!
      1. ghby
        ghby 30 September 2020 12: 33 New
        -1
        You probably made the wrong deal. The exchange with the improvement goes well and you don't need to put any money into the account. Perhaps your mistake was when applying for an order, which they asked for and issued, there the same is not particularly ceremonious.
        1. aybolyt678
          aybolyt678 30 September 2020 12: 57 New
          0
          Quote: ghby
          You probably made the wrong deal. The exchange with the improvement goes well and it is unnecessary to put any money into the account.

          no, that's right. Even the notary was surprised at the current practice. He said that there is no such thing in other areas. It somehow concerned him and he could not do anything. And notaries are lawyers
          they don't stand on ceremony there
          it's to the point. The question is - why not limit the rights of juveniles to disadvantaged families?
      2. Vladimir1155
        Vladimir1155 3 October 2020 16: 21 New
        +2
        usually real estate agents know how much and how to give custody so that it does not interfere
        1. aybolyt678
          aybolyt678 3 October 2020 19: 52 New
          +1
          Quote: vladimir1155
          usually real estate agents know how much and how to give custody so that it does not interfere

          I say that corruption is convenient! wassat
  7. wasps
    wasps 30 September 2020 07: 25 New
    +7
    You know, comrades! I personally know two "ladies" from the guardianship department ... one of them is a young "old maid" who has no children, the other is "untidy", who has a mess at home .... Why is that? I do not know ... but to take children away is yes!
    1. lucul
      lucul 30 September 2020 07: 31 New
      +6
      I personally know two "ladies" from the guardianship department ... one of them is a young "old maid" who has no children,

      And there everyone is like that ...
      A normal mother will not take children from the mother ...
      1. Aleks2048
        Aleks2048 30 September 2020 15: 56 New
        -2
        And there everyone is like that ...
        A normal mother will not take children from the mother ...

        Well, my mother woke up. And if the mother is a drug addict? Suicide? Lesbian? Whom will such a child bring up?
  8. imobile2008
    imobile2008 30 September 2020 08: 15 New
    0
    The problem is very big for Russia.
    The first, because of the conditions, to take away is horror. Parents are trying to support their children as best they can. The family income is not large, and if divided with children, it is altogether small. The allowance is 50 rubles, and mat capital cannot be used to buy a house or an apartment, and it lies like a dead weight, depreciates, it could be translated into dollars, it would be a little sense.
    Second, orphanages are modern concentration camps for the most part, no one even thinks about how to rescue children from there. There is no program to get rid of them, as in some countries where children are settled by families. In addition, people are callous in our country, incapable of compassion, mainly due to the propaganda of violence. Try to rent an apartment with your child, you will see the duplicity of our people.
    3. There are families who beat children.
    1. Aleks2048
      Aleks2048 30 September 2020 15: 59 New
      +1
      Oh, rose-colored glasses would take off you and walk around the homeless people, drug den, basements and attics. am
  9. depressant
    depressant 30 September 2020 08: 43 New
    +3
    The true goals and objectives of juvenile justice are clear in the context of the current stage of development of capitalism, in which we now live. Robotization, or digitalization of all spheres of life, generates an excess of labor in order to finally reduce the cost, which means that it is impossible for the employee to fight for his rights. The worker should be glad that he has a job at all - this is what capitalism has been striving so hard for over the past century.
    But it turns out that this creates a too large surplus of the population, which in the nuclear era cannot be eliminated by a serious war between major powers, and local wars do not solve this problem. So we need to find a way to eliminate the increased birth rate. Juvenile justice is one of the instruments for solving this problem, along with the intensified propaganda of families with non-traditional orientation. Taking a child out of a poor family and raising him in an orphanage means in many ways to deprive him of the skills of family existence, which means craving for having many children and, if possible, craving to create a family in general.
    The poor must not breed!
    I would not be surprised if soon on legal grounds all over the world will become fashionable not only voluntary renunciation of life with the help of doctors or even a special booth adapted for this free and therefore so seductive in a desperate moment, but also voluntary sterilization. Or sterilization for a one-time reward - temptingly large, but much more profitable for the state than life support on the basic income of the future unemployed.
    What is preventing this with us so far? Large territory as a place of rich hunting for oligarchs. The area to be protected. The cheap labor force imported from Central Asia will not solve the problem of protection even with citizenship.
    Having faced each other, the tendency of the need for the reproduction of Russians as defenders of the territory and the tendency for our redundancy to grow in the subsequent "digital" decades, even with a rapid drop in our birth rate, put the capitalist government of the Russian Federation in the position of choosing a priority, forcing the State Duma to revise the provisions of juvenile justice in the direction of reducing atrocities, created by her. Because while the tendency to protect the territory is more important. While.
  10. Was mammoth
    Was mammoth 30 September 2020 08: 51 New
    0
    The solution to the problem seems to have been found, and it looks quite decent on paper. It remains to be hoped that the law, firstly, will reduce the barbarity on the part of social services, and secondly, it will not force the guardianship to turn a blind eye to really egregious cases of child abuse in families.
    Some kind of barrier against callousness and irresponsibility. The state, a specific official, a law enforcement officer.
    And if the court does not support? Will officials and law enforcement officers really go to landings with serious deadlines? belay
  11. Varyag71
    Varyag71 30 September 2020 09: 24 New
    +7
    I doubt very much that juvenile workers somewhere in the Caucasus will come to someone. Most likely, they will be buried there.
    1. Ptolemy Lag
      Ptolemy Lag 30 September 2020 10: 09 New
      +4
      And they will do the right thing!
    2. Simargl
      Simargl 30 September 2020 21: 05 New
      -1
      Quote: Varyag71
      I doubt very much that juveniles somewhere in the Caucasus will come to someone.
      And if they beguiled the shores, they will begin to find them in parts.
      Or undress to a toothbrush.
  12. Vladimir Vladimirovich S
    Vladimir Vladimirovich S 30 September 2020 10: 07 New
    +3
    We have almost any Law - like a drawbar, wherever they turn - there it came out ...
    Although in the "good" West, it can be worse ...
    Yes, and "respected" media like topics Kindle ...
    Sadness ...
    1. Vladimir1155
      Vladimir1155 3 October 2020 15: 55 New
      +1
      here is the truth about the judicial system of the Russian Federation https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZgFWYX_YMc
  13. Blue fox
    Blue fox 30 September 2020 12: 02 New
    +2
    The author has raised a very responsible, but also very painful topic. It so happened that life forced me to get acquainted with the policy of our state in this matter. I am not pressing on the ultimate truth, but I am writing about what I have come across and come across personally in court. The main message is, in general, correct - to preserve the family - the cell of society, but the implementation ...
    I'll try to give some examples:
    A mother, a drug dealer, a convicted person is not conditionally deprived of motherhood and custody of an abandoned visually impaired child in favor of her grandparents because she is a "MOTHER".
    The father-drug detainee is not deprived of paternity with the wording “but he didn’t sell drugs to the child for making the“ bookmark ”.
    As for the guardianship authorities, it's stupid ... They don't work on weekends !!! That is, if, according to a court decision, a meeting is scheduled for, for example, a father who is deprived of paternity at the suit of his mother for setting his fighting breed dogs against a child for his misdeeds (such as scaring him with punishment) and he became a stutterer and guardianship authorities must be present at the meeting , but the meeting is scheduled for a day off (like daddy has to work to pay alimony, as much as 5 sput. by postal order, of which 200 rubles will be debited from the child for postal services ......). Then the guardianship simply writes a letter that they cannot be present because they do not work. The curtain. As a result, daddy mocks all 4 hours of the meeting over the mother and child, and in the end calls the police with a statement that they say the father is deprived of communication with the child and all the arguments of witnesses who confirm the opposite and are present at the meeting, unlike custody, are broken about the triumph of our law and the meeting continues with the police officers, who spend a few more hours interviewing those present.
    How is the minimum alimony paid? Elementary, self-employment is formalized, for example, by a photographer and all chiki-bunches according to the law.
  14. tank64rus
    tank64rus 30 September 2020 12: 20 New
    +3
    They would try to take children away from families living in the Caucasus. I can't hear something. Actually, the authors of juvenile justice are all from specialized American universities. All this includes drugs and sexual promiscuity of the LGBT community and the MK-Ultra program and even the doctrine of Satanism, etc. We are talking about the power and domination of a very narrow circle of people over everyone else.
    1. Vladimir1155
      Vladimir1155 3 October 2020 16: 04 New
      +1
      not only the patriarch but also the mufti of the Russian Federation actively opposed the law of Klishas Krasheninnikov made on the Finnish model
  15. saygon66
    saygon66 30 September 2020 12: 31 New
    +2
    - Come on! In our city, three hundred meters from the regional "council", neglected children knock off a trifle at McDonald's ... Until late at night. And no one and no need to take them somewhere ...
    - If this continues, Felix Edmundovich will have to be cloned to resolve the issue with the street children!
    - The human resource is disappearing, and with the right approach, the "people of the state" could be brought up ...
    1. Vladimir1155
      Vladimir1155 3 October 2020 15: 44 New
      +1
      custody is not interested in hungry, emaciated children, its goal is to remove and sell a child from a normal family.On the international market for children's organs and sex slaves, one Russian child is estimated at $ 500000 per body, they arrange custody for a fictitious family abroad, and then they simply re-adopt as they want and where they want, even to gays ... everything has been worked out, first they pretend to refuse to be adopted by some Russian family (oh he has a bad temper, oh his mother was found, oh sign the refusal), and you can put the child on the international children's exchange ... Sorry for international adoption, and for some reason Russian adoptive parents get only disabled children ...
      1. saygon66
        saygon66 4 October 2020 23: 18 New
        +1
        - In the late-mid-90s, the adoption of children from orphanages by foreign citizens was a common practice ... And many of those involved got a serious gesheft from this ... Where are these children now and what is of little interest to them ...
  16. Nitarius
    Nitarius 30 September 2020 12: 37 New
    +3
    here to feed juvenile salaries and so on - THIS MEANS IS! and how to help families really .. oblige to work .. and so on! I have no strength for this! question to the officials .. where are they going and in what future? if they simply can't think with their brains then? *
  17. Knell wardenheart
    Knell wardenheart 30 September 2020 13: 01 New
    0
    Paaadumash for a couple of weeks the children sat in some sort of storehouse .. no one will even answer for this and moral damage ..
    1. Vladimir1155
      Vladimir1155 3 October 2020 15: 46 New
      +1
      if but you don't think that the children will not be returned for years, and then only with the efforts of Orthodox activists and volunteer lawyers, even then it does not always work out ...
  18. Gunther
    Gunther 30 September 2020 17: 46 New
    +3
    I don’t share the author’s optimism about the Duma - while organisms of the "klishas-dye" type are warmed up in it, families will be destroyed by juvenile fascists.
  19. Reserve buildbat
    Reserve buildbat 30 September 2020 20: 58 New
    +1
    You just need to liquidate all these "juveniles", throw the "employees" out into the street, and use the released billions to improve the welfare of citizens. By restoring science, industry, education, medicine. After all, if there are no poor families, then the percentage of children requiring state care will decrease significantly.
    1. Aleks2048
      Aleks2048 1 October 2020 08: 12 New
      0
      released billions

      Eck you got carried ... Billions ?! If you take their salary fund, I am sure that only millions will come out, and such a penny cannot be restored
      science, industry, education, medicine

      After all, if there are no poor families, then the percentage of children requiring state care will decrease significantly.

      The problem is not that people are poor, but how to distribute within the family budget so that the child is not deprived.
  20. Prisoner
    Prisoner 30 September 2020 22: 47 New
    +2
    what My childhood had a good time. God forbid such rules go there! All the children of the village would be herded into shelters. (Although no. One mama would have been left. There was such an unfortunate boy. He lived in a golden cage.) Two and a half buckets tall, they dragged water from the river in buckets, chopped firewood, returned from the forest on skis, devoured everything they could get on field and in the river. The faces are grimy, happy and outrageously healthy organisms. laughing
  21. German Titov
    German Titov 1 October 2020 07: 39 New
    +2
    It's good that in my happy childhood there were no such organs. From morning till evening on vacation I ran "about my business", I saw my parents only in the evening. Pioneer camp, with all the "choruses and chants" - as a temporary restriction of freedom. "Juvenile" if they saw me with a hoe in the garden, parents would be involved for the exploitation of children.
    1. Vladimir1155
      Vladimir1155 3 October 2020 15: 26 New
      +1
      here is about the Klishas law (which some suspect of being gay) in detail https://rvs.su/tags/zakonoproekt-klishasa-krasheninnikova
  22. Shadow041
    Shadow041 1 October 2020 11: 27 New
    +3
    And what's wrong with the fact that the child periodically visits with a good grandmother, or grandparents. Even today, my mother will remember her grandmother with a kind word, who never hurt her and her childhood. I also used to live with my grandparents, it was especially cool in the summer. Fishing, biking, fresh suburban air, fresh fruits and vegetables from the garden. I don't think I could have achieved what I have today if I had grown up in an orphanage. And the food there is not home and the attitude is working, not related. Of course, if parents are drug addicts, alcoholics, schizophrenics, criminals leading an excessively dissolute lifestyle, who beat on a child, the children should be removed from such parents. A couple of my friends took the children from their ex-wives through the court, after the divorce, since these women were doing anything , but not children, the money that they were given for a child was spent on their fornication with various men. Taking children from their parents based on the fantasies of a doctor or a neighbor is not only stupid, but also criminal. A child has a bruise ... Yes, in my childhood and from a bicycle I fell with a snowball and a soccer ball until I got decent bruises in my face during games. When playing football, a bruise is a trifle. Nobody counted them. It was a shame, of course, when they hit me in the face, but not on purpose, and not to me alone. Game: It wasn't my parents who beat me ...
  23. Vladimir1155
    Vladimir1155 3 October 2020 15: 14 New
    +2
    question to the author ... What law do you mean the one that is being developed under the leadership of the respected Elena Mizulina, where they really try to objectively protect the interests of the family? Or you are campaigning for an exact copy of the French and Scandinavian law (the law of Klishas Krasheninikov supported by the EDR, that is, possibly paid for by international structures for the sale of child organs and young sexual slaves under the guise of international adoption), where the withdrawal will be at 12 o'clock without the presence of the parents at the court (they can do not even notify) and their lawyers, without the opportunity to prepare to study the charges and collect evidence? That is, in violation of Articles 1 to 20 of the Civil Code, it will not be a trial but a reprisal at 12 o'clock? Better were the courts-martial and special troikas of the NKVD, there were more excuses and not one judge but a collegium ...