Military Review

Mysteries of the oldest battle in Europe

52

There is debate among archaeologists and historians as to when the most ancient battle took place in Europe. Based on the discovery made as a result of a chance find in 1996 in the federal state of Mecklenburg-Vorpommern (FRG), it is believed that such a battle can be considered the battle of the Tollensee River (Dolen).


By the method of radiocarbon analysis of human remains, among which were bones struck by arrows with a flint-tipped arrow, it was possible to establish that this battle took place at least 3200 years ago.

On the banks of the Tollensee, archaeologists discovered not only human remains, but also the remains of animals (horses) and those weapons that people used against each other. These are fragments of bronze swords, hammers and clubs made of wood.

This find is of great interest not only among historians and archaeologists, but also among anthropologists. One of the questions that experts are trying to answer is related to who exactly were those people who met on the banks of the Tollense. Until now, the ethnicity of the warriors who fought 3200 years ago in the territories of modern northeastern Germany remained a mystery.

In details about what genotype those people had, how it can be associated with the one who inhabited the territory of our country, says historian Anatoly Klyosov. His story is presented on The Day channel:

52 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must to register.

I have an account? Sign in

  1. Force multiplier
    Force multiplier 28 September 2020 16: 42
    +5
    Whom does US citizen Klesov mean by the word "we" and what does US citizen Klesov mean by the word "west"? Interestingly, believers in his nonsense realize in whose interests he preaches his nonsense
    1. Krasnoyarsk
      Krasnoyarsk 28 September 2020 17: 45
      +3
      Quote: Force Multiplier
      Whom does US citizen Klesov mean by the word "we" and what does US citizen Klesov mean by the word "west"?

      Yes, by the will of fate, he is a US citizen, but ... to your deep regret, he is Russian. Based on this, and his position on the issue of "we" and "the West".
      Quote: Force Multiplier
      Interestingly, believers in his nonsense realize in whose interests he preaches his nonsense

      So tell us a secret - and in whose interests is he preaching?
      Are you an expert in genetics, biochemistry? Prove to us, popularly, on your fingers that what Klesov claims is nonsense.
      1. Mik13
        Mik13 28 September 2020 22: 17
        -2
        Quote: Krasnoyarsk
        Are you an expert in genetics, biochemistry? Prove to us, popularly, on your fingers that what Klesov claims is nonsense.

        Is it popular to prove the sphericity of the Earth on the fingers? Or can this postulate be taken on faith?


        1. Krasnoyarsk
          Krasnoyarsk 29 September 2020 00: 24
          0
          Quote: Mik13

          Is it popular to prove the sphericity of the Earth on the fingers? Or can this postulate be taken on faith?

          And before that, people like you argued that Copernicus was "a liar, a chatterbox and a gull," and the Earth is flat and stands on three whales.
          Is Klim Zhukov a geneticist and biochemist? Or is he a jack of all trades out of boredom?
          And why did you decide that Balanovsky was right, but Klesov was not?
          1. Mik13
            Mik13 29 September 2020 08: 47
            +1
            Quote: Krasnoyarsk
            And before that, people like you argued that Copernicus was "a liar, a chatterbox and a gull," and the Earth is flat and stands on three whales.
            Unfortunately, while it is Klesov who is trying to refute the earth's sphericity)

            Quote: Krasnoyarsk
            Is Klim Zhukov a geneticist and biochemist? Or is he a jack of all trades out of boredom?
            And Zhukov is a historian. The fact is that history, like science, also has its own specific scientific methods. And there is a certain minimum of knowledge that a person must possess in order to conduct scientific research in the field of history. And Zhukov criticizes Klesov precisely as a historian.

            Quote: Krasnoyarsk
            And why did you decide that Balanovsky was right, but Klesov was not?
            Because Klesov's conclusions (as Balanovsky speaks about) contradict the scientific method in general.

            I understand that Klesov's work pleasantly scratches pride - but this is the same pseudoscience as Rezun's books or, in general, Zadornov's historical attempts.
            1. Krasnoyarsk
              Krasnoyarsk 29 September 2020 09: 23
              -1
              Quote: Mik13
              Unfortunately, while it is Klesov who is trying to refute the earth's sphericity)

              You messed up the sequence of events.
              Quote: Mik13
              The fact is that history, like science, also has its own specific scientific methods.

              Empty words in a "pretty" wrapper.
              Quote: Mik13
              And Zhukov criticizes Klesov precisely as a historian.

              When Klesov says that the found bone remains belong, as a result of the research, to haplogroup R1B, then, criticizing Klesov, Zhukov, what does he claim? That the remains of the bones belong to a different haplogroup? Does he, Zhukov, understand anything about this?
              Quote: Mik13
              Because Klesov's conclusions (as Balanovsky speaks about) contradict the scientific method in general.

              Is it okay that this scientific method was developed by Klesov and that there is simply no other method?
              Quote: Mik13

              I understand that Klesov's work pleasantly scratches pride

              I don't give a damn about this kind of pride. Show me convincingly that Klesov is wrong.
              Quote: Mik13

              but this is the same pseudoscience as Rezun's books

              Do you even understand the meaning of the word "science"?
              What does Rezun's ARTISTIC have to do with science?
              Then the works of V. Ivanov, D. Balashov, and other writers writing on historical topics, call them pseudoscience.
              1. Dzungar
                Dzungar 7 October 2020 17: 43
                0
                "works" of Rezun ARE NOT ARTISTIC. Only that series of books that tells about a girl in the service
      2. Simargl
        Simargl 29 September 2020 18: 43
        -3
        Quote: Krasnoyarsk
        to your deep regret, he is Russian.
        And?
        Quote: Krasnoyarsk
        So tell us a secret - and in whose interests is he preaching?
        In their. Fomenko and Nosovsky - too, if that. This means that he does not need the truth - he needs money (ultimately).
        Quote: Krasnoyarsk
        Are you an expert in genetics, biochemistry?
        Klyosov is not a geneticist either. However, in order to assert in the field that he has climbed, one needs access to arrays of data and knowledge in statistics, and not just in biochemistry. Statistics are even more important.
        1. Krasnoyarsk
          Krasnoyarsk 30 September 2020 17: 56
          +1
          Quote: Simargl

          And?

          What And? Have you read the whole phrase carefully?
          Quote: Simargl
          This means that he doesn't need the truth - he needs money (ultimately).

          Do not tell moth slippers. He is a fairly wealthy person. You should at least read his biography. And then hait the person behind the eyes. It is dishonorable.
          Quote: Simargl
          Klyosov is not a geneticist either. However, in order to assert in the field that he has climbed, one needs access to arrays of data and knowledge in statistics, and not just in biochemistry. Statistics are even more important.

          With these words, you have demonstrated your complete ignorance of the issue that Klesov is dealing with. As they say - "climbed into the water without knowing the ford."
          1. Simargl
            Simargl 30 September 2020 19: 42
            -3
            Quote: Krasnoyarsk
            What And? Have you read the whole phrase carefully?
            So what if he's Russian?
            Does that justify him? What do you mean?
            Quote: Krasnoyarsk
            Do not tell moth slippers. He is a fairly wealthy person.
            AND? Money and fame (which can be exchanged for money) are always not enough.
            Quote: Krasnoyarsk
            With these words, you have demonstrated your complete ignorance of the issue that Klesov is dealing with.
            And what does he do? Fraud for people with a heightened sense of ethnic self-identification? Yes, he is a professional juggler of facts.
            1. Krasnoyarsk
              Krasnoyarsk 9 October 2020 18: 00
              0
              Quote: Simargl
              And what does he do? Fraud for people with a heightened sense of ethnic self-identification? Yes, he is a professional juggler of facts.

              And can you prove it? Please, prove it and I will be very grateful to you. But it seems to me that your words are nothing more than empty blah blah blah.
              1. Simargl
                Simargl 9 October 2020 19: 15
                0
                Quote: Krasnoyarsk
                And can you prove it?
                I?! What do you! I just trust people who do it really tightly.
                Please welcome: genofond.rf /? Page_id = 1235
                You can type such material for many hours of reading. It won't help you if you believe.
                1. Krasnoyarsk
                  Krasnoyarsk 9 October 2020 19: 25
                  0
                  Quote: Simargl

                  It will not help you if you believe.

                  Actually, I'm an unbeliever.
                  And thanks for the link. Let's see what they feed you.
                2. Krasnoyarsk
                  Krasnoyarsk 9 October 2020 19: 47
                  0
                  Quote: Simargl
                  Welcome:

                  This is what Balanovsky writes -
                  4) FREQUENT SUBSTITUTIONS OF CONCEPTS. The article provides three examples:
                  - Only carriers of the haplogroup R1a are called Proto-Slavs (although they had many other haplogroups);
                  And who said that these "many other haplogroups" were Slavs?
                  I am translating Balanovsky for your better understanding - VAZ produced not only Zhiguli, but also Muscovites, Urals and Cossacks. All these were cars produced in the USSR, but they were not Zhiguli.
                  In addition, your Balanovsky has no idea what the word "Genus" means and begins to sculpt a hunchback against the wall - "It is important that members of a genus can both really have one common ancestor, or not have it, or not all descend from it."
                  Sorry, but I don't want to read this nonsense further.
                  1. Simargl
                    Simargl 9 October 2020 22: 12
                    0
                    Quote: Krasnoyarsk
                    Actually, I'm an unbeliever.
                    Well, how is it? I'm not talking about the church ... although ...

                    Quote: Krasnoyarsk
                    Sorry, but I don't want to read this nonsense further.
                    You don't even read what Klesov writes himself! And he writes about the content of haplogroups in %% ratio.

                    Quote: Krasnoyarsk
                    In addition, your Balanovsky has no idea what the word "Genus" means and begins to sculpt a hunchback against the wall - "It is important that members of a genus can both really have one common ancestor, or not have it, or not all descend from it."
                    This is said about a tribal society. Your wife is a member of your family, but not a relative, if done correctly tongue

                    I repeat: Klesov has a substitution of concepts and pulling an owl onto the globe.
                    1. Krasnoyarsk
                      Krasnoyarsk 10 October 2020 07: 04
                      0
                      Quote: Simargl
                      Well, how is it? I'm not talking about the church ... although ...

                      And I'm not talking about her.
                      Quote: Simargl
                      You don't even read what Klesov writes himself! And he writes about the content of haplogroups in %% ratio.

                      And what's wrong? Are all citizens of the same nationality in your city? Some% of Russians, some% of Ukrainians, some% of Uzbeks. The same thing happens with haplogroups. What's wrong?

                      Quote: Simargl
                      This refers to a tribal society.

                      Quite right. Your guru is substituting the concept of Clan and Tribe. But there may be aliens in the tribe. Those. people of a different haplogroup. And in the Genus, men are only of their own Gender. And their wives, like mine, can be from any Clan and with any haplogroup. But a woman does not have a Y chromosome, so it does not affect haplogroups in any way. She can only change the appearance of her children, make them different (skin color, hair, eye shape, etc.) to her father. But the haplogroup will remain the same as that of the father. It is not for nothing that among all peoples, except for the Jewish, nationality is determined by the nationality of the father.
                      1. Simargl
                        Simargl 10 October 2020 10: 13
                        0
                        Quote: Krasnoyarsk
                        The same thing happens with haplogroups. What's wrong?
                        In fact of the matter. Klesov juggles this at his own discretion.

                        Quote: Krasnoyarsk
                        Your guru is substituting the concept of Clan and Tribe.
                        No. Genus is not a surname. It is also transmitted through women, even in a patriarchal society.
                        Here you are - yes: have narrowed the concept to direct male inheritance.

                        ss69100.livejournal.com/2021965.html
                        antropogenez.ru/review/814/2/
                        trv-science.ru/2015/01/dnk-demagogiya-kljosova/
                      2. Krasnoyarsk
                        Krasnoyarsk 10 October 2020 10: 41
                        0
                        Quote: Simargl
                        No. Genus is not a surname. It is also transmitted through women, even in a patriarchal society.

                        Women have no Y chromosome. She cannot transmit a haplogroup.
                        A white woman can give birth to a white child and a black one from a black man, but this child will have a daddy's haplogroup. Even if he is born with white skin and light brown hair
                      3. Simargl
                        Simargl 10 October 2020 14: 50
                        0
                        Quote: Krasnoyarsk
                        A white woman can give birth to a white child and a black one from a black man, but this child will have a daddy's haplogroup.
                        Moreover, a white woman can give birth to a white man with a haplogroup R1A1! It's very simple: the mother of a man or a woman is black, but the color of the skin was somehow not transmitted, and the next generation "bummed". It is necessary to wash.

                        Quote: Krasnoyarsk
                        Women have no Y chromosome. She cannot transmit a haplogroup.
                        And what does it have to do with it?


                        vk.com/topic-34168719_33188638
                        aftershock.news/?q=node/709845&full
                        maxpark.com/community/43/content/4948079
                        aif.ru/society/opinion/ob_odnoy_lzhenauchnoy_koncepcii_zamechaniya_o_tak_nazyvaemoy_dnk-genealogii
                        www.politforums.net/other/1295874117.html
  • Operator
    Operator 28 September 2020 19: 29
    -4
    How is Anal in your Berlin, Fengr? laughing
  • alimov76
    alimov76 28 September 2020 16: 53
    +3
    pseudoscience, people with a blue eye exploit the national theme and earn money, well, etc.
    1. Krasnoyarsk
      Krasnoyarsk 28 September 2020 17: 53
      +1
      Quote: alimov76
      pseudoscience,

      Does such science exist? There is a wrong direction in the development of any science, and there is a right direction in its development. Show us the work of scientists in which it is indisputably proven that Klesov chose the wrong direction in the study of DNA.
      1. Andrey Ilminsky
        Andrey Ilminsky 28 September 2020 21: 38
        +3
        Klesov gave an answer to criticism, addressed to himself, at the end of the program .. And right there, at the bottom, in the comments, the very "criticism" for which he gave an answer ... Critics, watch the interview to the end, and do not write anything, either substantiate your claims .. And then some emotions and blah blah .. While the score is in favor of Klesov.
        1. voyaka uh
          voyaka uh 29 September 2020 15: 36
          +4
          I just didn't like Klesov's answer to criticism.
          He brushed aside all criticism at once. Although his scientific opponents
          there are also very special prof. claims.
          Haplogroup samples can be easily manipulated by region.
          Discard "inconvenient" finds, but convenient (fit into the concept)
          include in statistics. For example, the most densely "Aryan" haplogroup R1a,
          which Klesov calls "Russian" is represented in Poland and the Czech Republic,
          and not at all in Russia. But such a "politically incorrect" result was
          Klesovites are unpleasant, and they began to fake statistics to
          register the Aryans in Russia.
          There are other examples.
          1. Krasnoyarsk
            Krasnoyarsk 30 September 2020 18: 05
            0
            Quote: voyaka uh

            Although his scientific opponents
            there are also very special prof. claims.

            Bring at least one prof. claim.
            Quote: voyaka uh
            Haplogroup samples can be easily manipulated by region.

            And what is this talking about?
            Quote: voyaka uh

            Discard "inconvenient" finds, but convenient (fit into the concept)
            include in statistics. For example, the most densely "Aryan" haplogroup R1a,

            Do you have any evidence that Klesov is doing this?
            Quote: voyaka uh
            ppa R1a,
            which Klesov calls "Russian" is represented in Poland and the Czech Republic,
            and not at all in Russia. But such a "politically incorrect" result was
            Klesovites are unpleasant, and they began to fake statistics to
            register the Aryans in Russia.

            Proof of this in the studio !!!
            Quote: voyaka uh
            There are other examples.

            Bring at least one.
            1. voyaka uh
              voyaka uh 30 September 2020 18: 14
              +3
              Klesov is not the only person involved in haplogenetics. He has opponents in this very science, and not only those who consider it "pseudoscience" (with which I disagree). Klesov was initially carried away by a specific "Slavic" (it is not only Slavic) haplogroup R1a and distorts the cards in favor of this respected haplogroup.
              1. Krasnoyarsk
                Krasnoyarsk 30 September 2020 18: 22
                0
                Quote: voyaka uh
                disagree). Klesov was initially carried away by a specific "Slavic" (it is not only Slavic) haplogroup R1a and distorts the cards in favor of this respected haplogroup.

                What is your evidence?
                Do not misunderstand me. I am not claiming anything. Neither "FOR" Klesov, nor "AGAINST". But if you assert something, you must provide evidence of your assertions. Or at least give a link to the material.
                1. voyaka uh
                  voyaka uh 30 September 2020 19: 14
                  +3
                  I rarely give links. Due to the fact that on the VO forum, they
                  don't make any difference. I usually look for articles in English.
                  How does this help me here?
                  When I learned about Klesov several years ago, I became interested in the topic.
                  And I read both his articles and opponents (as far as I understood smile )
                  He worked at Harvard. D-u-crayfish are not taken there. He is a scientist.
                  He was hurt that someone disparaged the story.
                  pre-Slavs. I understand him. And he began to study genetics.
                  In order to prove that the Slavs and their ancestors have a rich ancient history.
                  Which is perfectly true. But I got carried away and began to go overboard. "Klesovites" appeared,
                  the whole flow. And they began to use his concept in a racist manner.
                  ("Aryans-Slavs are luminaries and teachers for all of Eurasia"). What doesn't match
                  neither archaeological nor historical data. They ran into him -
                  and rightly so - first archaeologists, and then related genetics.
                  1. Krasnoyarsk
                    Krasnoyarsk 1 October 2020 00: 29
                    +2
                    Quote: voyaka uh

                    Which is perfectly true. But I got carried away and began to go overboard. "Klesovites" appeared,
                    the whole flow. And they began to use his concept in a racist manner.
                    ("Aryans-Slavs are luminaries and teachers for all of Eurasia"). What doesn't match

                    I have never seen anything like this in any of Klesov's lectures.
                    But if so, what does Klesov have to do with it?
                    Quote: voyaka uh
                    Klesov was initially carried away by a specific "Slavic" (it is not only Slavic) haplogroup R1a and distorts the cards in favor of this respected haplogroup.

                    This is purely untrue. Klesov points out that R1a is present in Afghans, Turkmens, Iranians and Syrians
    2. Tank jacket
      Tank jacket 28 September 2020 20: 58
      0
      "- You're not too much of him, are you?
      - Just right.
      - Why does he not wake up in any way?
      - Black person.
      - As if the international con ... conflict did not work out.
      - He said he was Russian.
      - I lied. "(C)
      "Zhmurki"
  • Keyser soze
    Keyser soze 28 September 2020 17: 21
    0
    And sho, the atomic boNbu was not thrown by the ancient Aryans? Let's be more bold, what are we talking about ...
    1. novel66
      novel66 28 September 2020 17: 24
      +5
      thrown ... what is there ... just missed lol
      1. Fedorovich
        Fedorovich 28 September 2020 18: 45
        0
        And they ended up in Siberia.
        1. novel66
          novel66 28 September 2020 19: 08
          +1
          oh yeah! tunguska !!!
      2. Tank jacket
        Tank jacket 28 September 2020 20: 45
        -5
        Novel, hi , Keyser Sоze, supports the official scientific and universally recognized point of view, according to which, rub any Russian, and there is this "Ethiopian" football player lol
        ------
        "- So, now let's go with the Ethiopian footballer ...
        “I am Russian, and I have never been to Ethiopia.”
        - Do not drive us! For a kilometer it is clear that you were a cannibal! "(C)
        --------
        "- You, if anything, will dump in Ethiopia, and what are we to do with Bala ??
        - You got me already with your Ethiopia !!
        - Ethiopia is not mine! "(C)
        ---------
        - Why meeting at the zoo?
        - So that no one recognizes you!
        --------
        - I am Russian!
        - Just don't drive! Russians don't smoke that much. Here we are with Crown, a pack, and you and a half, or even two!
        X / F "Zhmurki".
        1. novel66
          novel66 29 September 2020 07: 42
          +1
          good movie, love, Ruslan hi
  • Operator
    Operator 28 September 2020 19: 41
    0
    Details of the battle in the Tollensee valley
    https://warspot.ru/5521-pervobytnaya-voyna-drevneyshee-pole-bitvy
  • Tank jacket
    Tank jacket 28 September 2020 20: 07
    0
    Quote: Keyser Soze
    And sho, the atomic boNbu was not thrown by the ancient Aryans? Let's be more bold, what are we talking about ...

    Don't worry, your ancestors came out of Africa, we don't argue and so you can see ... bully
  • certero
    certero 29 September 2020 08: 23
    +4
    I hate it when the headline is interesting, but it leads to a post in which a shit and offers you to watch a video on YouTube.
    Even without a brief retelling of the lecture content. It's a pity that you can't put a minus now
  • Diviz
    Diviz 29 September 2020 08: 41
    0
    The found belt plaques with patterns are similar to those of the plaques from the Merovingian times
    https://yadi.sk/i/GpuaghaHRMCkwA
    https://yadi.sk/i/5qG0vbh6aRtFhw
  • voyaka uh
    voyaka uh 29 September 2020 12: 39
    +3
    Cool.
    The interview is very long. I listened with pleasure. laughing
    The whole problem lies in interpretation and terminology.
    Why do some have "genocide", while others have a "military victory"? smile
    It is said: "Russians, Ukrainians, Belarusians are one people." I will not argue.
    But Comrade Klesov delicately forgot to add to this brotherhood of Poles.
    Although the Poles have the most pronounced "Russian" haplogroup. laughing
    Politics inscribed in science.
    This reduces Klesov's value as a scientist.
    1. stalkerwalker
      stalkerwalker 29 September 2020 12: 43
      +2
      Quote: voyaka uh
      Comrade Klesov delicately forgot to add to this brotherhood of Poles.
      Although the Poles have the most pronounced "Russian"

      This is normal. The Semitic group is also the most "fraternal".
      1. voyaka uh
        voyaka uh 29 September 2020 12: 50
        +4
        He laughed about the Khazars. Who turned out to be "ancient southern Aryans".
        Russians are also ancient Aryans. Northern only.
        Prophetic Oleg (he himself is one of those "genocides" in Europe, like?), With his squad
        from the northern Aryans soaked the southern Aryans. laughing
        1. stalkerwalker
          stalkerwalker 29 September 2020 14: 25
          +1
          Quote: voyaka uh
          Laughed about the Khazars

          Over the past couple of years, the site has begun to seriously claim the title of the best humorous publication.
          wassat
          1. Operator
            Operator 29 September 2020 16: 23
            -3
            The VO website in the network, unfortunately, is famous for the presence of a large contingent of Dubak participants from the near (Outskirts, etc.) and far (Israel, etc.) abroad, as well as local brothers in "mind" laughing
            1. stalkerwalker
              stalkerwalker 29 September 2020 20: 55
              0
              Quote: Operator
              The VO website on the network, unfortunately, is famous for the presence of a large contingent of Dubaks-participants from near (Outskirts, etc.) and far (Israel, etc.) abroad, as well as local brothers in "reason

              What a pop, such a coming ...
              Which line did the admins choose, such a contingent came.
    2. cat Rusich
      cat Rusich 29 September 2020 22: 25
      -1
      Quote: voyaka uh

      It is said: "Russians, Ukrainians, Belarusians are one people." I will not argue.
      But Comrade Klesov delicately forgot to add to this brotherhood of Poles.
      Although the Poles have the most pronounced "Russian" haplogroup. laughing
      "One people" is not only "common blood".
      One people - a common faith, a common language, a common worldview, a common path ... The Poles have been going to the West for a long time, but they are fighting in the East, the inhabitants of Ukraine are going to the "fifth point of the EU" ... The Belarusians want to make "a wrong turn ... "" One people "- Cain's brother Abel ...
      1. voyaka uh
        voyaka uh 29 September 2020 22: 42
        +2
        That is why the science of haplogenetics has considerable historical significance, helping to understand the migration of peoples several thousand years ago. But it has no practical application in modern times. The fact that the Kyrgyz and the Russians were in the same haplogroup seems curious, does not bring these two worthy people closer.
        And the super-close genetic relationship between Poles and Russians does not remove - alas! - historical and religious differences between these peoples.
        1. cat Rusich
          cat Rusich 29 September 2020 22: 58
          +2
          Quote: voyaka uh

          And the super-close genetic relationship between Poles and Russians does not remove - alas! - historical and religious differences between these peoples.
          And then there are the "children of Noah" - "the sons of Shem" - the Semitic peoples - ARABS, JEWS ...
          Even within "one people" there are "not life and death wars" - for example, on the question of state structure - socialism or bourgeoism ...
  • cat Rusich
    cat Rusich 29 September 2020 22: 11
    0
    "the oldest battle in Europe" - you can recall the Mycenaean civilization and the wars that it waged in the lands of Hellas. The Trojan War was in Asia - the siege of Troy, but the armies of the Achaean Union already existed and had combat experience. In time, somewhere around 1400 - 1200 BC. I suppose "wars" in Europe were fought in the "Stone Age" (Neolithic, Paleolithic, Mesolithic ...). It's just that there are no traces left or haven't found yet ...
  • Sergey Sfiedu
    Sergey Sfiedu 30 September 2020 05: 40
    +1
    The site went completely down - it began to post materials of an obvious charlatan Klesov. Fomenko, Nosovsky and Chudinov next in line? So easily you can get a reputation as a cesspool.
  • Andobor
    Andobor 1 October 2020 16: 35
    0
    Collapse of the Bronze Age - horrors were happening all over the world.