Military Review

Savoy blue or red-white-grassy?

181

Venetian blue gonfalon with Saint Mark's Lion. It is a symbol of Venice and the former Venetian Republic


When a squad goes on a campaign
Keep up, buddy!
Always leads all of us forward
Our detachment flag!
Chorus:
He, like a dawn in the morning,
Burning overhead!
It flies proudly in the wind
It flies proudly in the wind
Calls us along!
Song from the movie "Kingdom of Crooked Mirrors". Music by Arkady Filippenko, lyrics by V. Gubarev)


Long way to the national flag ... Continue the theme of the appearance of state flags... Today, according to the plan, we have a story about how the Republic of Italy acquired its state flag, and with it its national colors. And the first thing that should be mentioned here is that in the Middle Ages, what kind of flags fluttered over the blessed Italian land! Flags of cities and communes, dukes and earls, noble barons and condottieri adventurers. But they all obeyed one rule: they had to have a hint of support from higher powers. Hence, gold is the color of paradise, blue is the “divine heaven”, red is the color of the militant church, white is the purity and purely “dove-like” innocence, in a word, the entire Christian faith was reflected on the flags of medieval Italy. And all the colors ...

Savoy blue or red-white-grassy?

The flag of the so-called Golden Ambrosian Republic is a medieval state formation centered in Milan, which existed from August 14, 1447 to February 27, 1450. It included the lands of modern Lombardy and Piedmont. Named after the patron saint of the city and the Bishop of Milan from 374 to 397, St. Ambrose

But it is clear that some state formations set the tone. And one of them was the County of Savoy. It is known that when on June 20, 1366, Count Amadeus VI of Savoy went on a crusade against the Turks, and Pope Urban V blessed him, a fleet of 17 ships with 2 thousand people on board gathered under his command. And it was then that Amadeus ordered that on the flagship Venetian gallery, along with the traditional banner of Savoy, which was red with a silver cross, a blue flag with the image of the Virgin in a field studded with gold stars should be raised.


The military flag of the Lombard Legion, which was the first military unit to use the three national colors of Italy we know today in 1796

Why did he need it? Well, what about without the patronage of the Virgin Mary, because blue is her color! Well, the oldest flag of Savoy (1589), known to us from images, is again a cloth of red, white (the color of the coat of arms of the House of Savoy) and blue. By the way, a complete analogue of the colors of the first Russian flag. And who knows what Peter I was guided by at that time far from us: the Dutch or the Savoyans? After all, he read a lot about many flags and saw them abroad, too, in many and very different!


Flag of the Cispadan Republic, established in 1797

Well, where did the Italian tricolor itself come from: green, white and red stripes? The oldest document that mentions the Italian tricolor flag is associated with the arrival of Napoleon Bonaparte on the Italian peninsula. The first territory conquered by Napoleon was Piedmont. And in the historical archive of the Piedmontese municipality of Cherasco, a document was found confirming that on May 13, 1796, on the occasion of the armistice between Napoleon and the Austro-Piedmontese troops, tricolor flags were raised on three towers in the city center. That is, the idea of ​​the Italian flag was borrowed from the national flag of France after Napoleon Bonaparte invaded Italy and began to create republics there on the French model. But his colorist was borrowed from the city of Milan, or rather, from his red and white banner. The green color was also directly related to the city of Milan, since the soldiers of the city's civil guard wore green uniforms, well, how could the military not be a little flattering here?


Flag of the Cisalpine Republic, which existed in 1798-1802

The first flag of the Cispadan Republic was established on December 9, 1797. Then these same colors were used on the flag of the Cisalpine Republic, the Italian Republic and the Napoleonic Kingdom of Italy. However, the design of these flags was different from the French.


Flag of the Italian Republic, which existed in 1802-1805

In the first case, it was a red cloth with a white rhombus with a green rectangle in it, in the second - a red cloth with a white rhombus with a green rectangle and the golden eagle of the French Empire spreading its wings. But these flags did not last long. After the defeat of Napoleon, the Italian states subject to him ceased to exist, and they were forgotten for many decades.

Over time, a legend was born that the creation of the national flag of the country is associated with the names of two students of the University of Bologna: Luigi Zamboni and Giovanni Battista De Rolandis. In the fall of 1794, they organized an armed uprising. And in order to distinguish ours from strangers, they came up with cockades for the colors of the national Italian flag. Their rebellion was suppressed, Luigi Zamboni committed suicide, and Giovanni Battista de Rolandis was executed, but the memory of the students has survived to this day. By the way, Napoleon himself had a hand in the creation of one of the Italian flags, who ordered that an eagle be on the flag.


Flag of the Italian Kingdom, which existed in 1805-1814


The flag of the Kingdom of Sardinia was the flag of Italy in 1816-1848

The entire first half of the 1861th century in Italy was held under the slogan of Risorgimento, that is, the movement for the unification of the country into a national state and the expulsion of the Austrians. In XNUMX the Risorgimento was crowned with success and the Kingdom of Italy was formed. The Sardinian constitution became the Italian constitution, but the Sardinian kingdom simply ceased to exist.


The state flag of the Kingdom of Italy since 1925 has acquired a crown

The new state needed a new flag. This was the tricolor coat of arms of the Savoy dynasty in the middle of the white field. Moreover, the coat of arms was surrounded by a blue border so that the white cross does not merge with the white background. So Italy got the following colors that can be considered national: green, white, red, blue. And the latter is not just "blue", but "Savoyard blue", which is a shade of blue between the lighter color of the first and the darker "peacock blue". It was named after the color of the House of Savoy, the royal dynasty that ruled Italy from 1861-1946. This color is also called "Italian blue". We see this color on the standard of the President of the Italian Republic, the same color on the ceremonial scarves of the officers of the Italian army and heads of the Italian provinces during official ceremonies. The uniform of Italian athletes and national teams is also blue. The same uniform is worn by the Italian national football team, which the Italians call for this - "Squadra Azzurra" ("blue team") and which first entered the field in blue on January 6, 1911, when they played in Milan with the Hungarian team.


Italy national football team in the final of the 2012 UEFA European Championship


Flag of the Republic of Salo

The national colors of the Italian tricolor were preserved during the Second World War. But there, on the flag of the so-called Italian Social Republic (the second name is the Republic of Salo; the republic was a puppet state in the territories of northern and partly central Italy occupied by Germany), which existed in the country in 1943-1945, an eagle "took off" with its wings spread, sitting on the lictor fascia.


Italian President's Standard 1965


The modern standard of the President of Italy. Approved November 4, 2000

In 1946, in connection with the liquidation of the monarchy in the country and the proclamation of the republic, the Savoy coat of arms was removed from the state flag, so that now Italy has the flag we know today. But the traditions of veneration of the Virgin Mary in the country have been preserved, so the blue color was also awarded to the ribbons of the Highest Order of the Holy Annunciation (an order established first by the Savoy dynasty, and then adopted in the Kingdom of Italy), the medal "For military valor" (three degrees) and the military award - the cross "For military valor".

Regions and cities also have their own flag in Italy. Moreover, many flags have survived from ancient times, while others have appeared relatively recently. The drawings on them are quite modern. By the way, many of them have a blue cloth, which once again indicates how popular it is in the country.


Flag of the region of Calabria


Piedmont region flag. All emblems on it, including the lambel, are very ancient


Lazio region flag


And this is the flag of the official, the Prime Minister of Italy

It is obvious that the formation of the national flag in Italy has a long history, is based, one might say, on centuries-old traditions. And in the end it gave a good result. After all, the basic colors of the flag have not changed for many years!

To be continued ...
Author:
Articles from this series:
National flag colors: from divine to mundane
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  1. Grandfather
    Grandfather 1 October 2020 05: 24
    0
    red-white-grassy?
    for the first time I hear about such an amazing coloring ... forgot the word "green"? there is grass of different colors. request
    1. kalibr
      1 October 2020 06: 56
      +7
      You are probably hearing about the first show for the first time, and about the viardot, but this does not mean that they are not there and never were ...
      1. Grandfather
        Grandfather 1 October 2020 09: 36
        +2
        Quote: kalibr
        You are probably hearing about the first show for the first time, and about the viardot, but this does not mean that they are not there and never were ...

        first show, to my shame, I don’t know, yes, but "viardot" is not Pauline?
        1. kalibr
          1 October 2020 10: 02
          +4
          There is nothing to be ashamed of. It is impossible to know everything. Better yet, review the movie UMBRELLA STICK and see the color of the first show live! And viardot is the "green of water" ...
    2. Bar1
      Bar1 1 October 2020 09: 32
      -5
      Italy is probably the best country in Europe, a mild Mediterranean climate, two harvests a year. Everything is in abundance. There are minerals, you can develop production. Here, according to the OI, the ancient state of Rome was born, to which the whole Western culture clung. True, no matter how much OI is not In the trend about the cradle of Western democracy, questions remain, and those answers to which authorized historians are reluctant to answer are satisfied only by dual schoolchildren who are not used to using their heads.
      For example
      -Rome conquered almost all of Europe and kept it under its rule for quite a long time, for centuries, then why the Italians have no relatives in Europe, well, except for the Romanians, who speak Romance, but the Orthodox themselves. By analogy with our time, for example, the British Empire for a couple centuries of possession of India was able to impose its language on the Indian elites and now English is the second state. But the "great Rome" could not impose its language on other peoples, as the Germans Balakali did in their own way then, so it all continues to this day.
      As a state, Italy appeared in the world only in the 19th century, rallying from small principalities, by the way speaking their own way, because each principality had its own language or dialect. over the centuries of the existence of Rome, and then the millennia of the Middle Ages, even the state-uniform language of communication could not develop.
      Take offhand any map from Galik's website, say 18c, and what do we see?
      On the map of 1733. -Etruria, the one that should have disappeared back in the 6th century BC. That's bad luck, where did it come from, after millennia?



      https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b5963868k/f1.item.zoom
      1. kalibr
        1 October 2020 09: 58
        +9
        But the "great Rome" could not impose its language on other peoples, as the Germans did Balakali in their own way then, so all this continues to this day.
        ALL PEOPLES OF EUROPE TALK IN POORED LATIN. The Higher School even has a faculty: ROMANO-GERMAN PHILOLOGY. They are so similar. And all the peoples of Europe, Great Rome imposed its faith. Nobody remained in paganism.
        1. KVU-NSVD
          KVU-NSVD 1 October 2020 10: 31
          +7
          Quote: kalibr
          ALL PEOPLES OF EUROPE TALK IN SPOKEN LATIN

          Let me add - and writes some letters in the Latin alphabet with national additions.
        2. Bar1
          Bar1 1 October 2020 11: 47
          -5
          Quote: kalibr
          But the "great Rome" could not impose its language on other peoples, as the Germans did Balakali in their own way then, so all this continues to this day.
          ALL PEOPLES OF EUROPE TALK IN POORED LATIN. The Higher School even has a faculty: ROMANO-GERMAN PHILOLOGY. They are so similar. And all the peoples of Europe, Great Rome imposed its faith. Nobody remained in paganism.


          you would like to read a little philology, otherwise you are confusing the alphabet and pronunciation / phonetics.
          The peoples of Europe DO NOT SPEAK Latin, but WRITE in Latin letters, but each speak his own way. Well, before, English and German, as well as Latin and French were closer, but now they have run far away.
          As for faith, I have already said that the very same Romanians have a weirdness, speak Roman, and the Orthodox themselves, which is also a great weirdness.
          1. kalibr
            1 October 2020 13: 56
            +3
            I graduated from the Faculty of History and Philology, specializing in History and English. So I'm fine with philology. But you Bar, what did you finish? What is your diploma specialization?
            1. Bar1
              Bar1 1 October 2020 14: 02
              0
              Quote: kalibr
              I graduated from the Faculty of History and Philology, specializing in History and English. So I'm fine with philology. But you Bar, what did you finish? What is your diploma specialization?

              Well, why would you admit such bloopers, a graduate of philology?
              Take Newton from him a couple of works, one in Latin, the other in English, and without knowing Latin, I began not to read Mathematics.
              1. kalibr
                1 October 2020 15: 48
                +3
                Quote: Bar1
                But you Bar, what did you finish? What is your diploma specialization?

                But what are you ashamed to directly answer my question? And it is not for you to talk about bloopers, because you do not understand this. Every alphabet has a phonetic sound, others simply do not exist. Although there are signs that are not themselves pronounced.
          2. kalibr
            1 October 2020 13: 58
            +1
            Quote: Bar1
            Well, before, English and German, as well as Latin and French were closer, but now they have run far away.

            Oh really?
            1. Bar1
              Bar1 1 October 2020 13: 59
              -3
              Quote: kalibr
              Quote: Bar1
              Well, before, English and German, as well as Latin and French were closer, but now they have run far away.

              Oh really?

              and why did not they hear that the Saxons and Angles came out of the nemotchina? The Anhalt region still exists in Germany.
              1. kalibr
                1 October 2020 15: 49
                +3
                That is, in Germany, the presence of the Anhalt region is not surprising, but in Italy Etruria is surprising?
      2. kalibr
        1 October 2020 09: 59
        +7
        Quote: Bar1
        On the map of 1733. -Etruria, the one that should have disappeared back in the 6th century BC.

        Why did she have to disappear?
        1. Bar1
          Bar1 1 October 2020 12: 04
          -7
          Quote: kalibr
          Quote: Bar1
          On the map of 1733. -Etruria, the one that should have disappeared back in the 6th century BC.

          Why did she have to disappear?

          good guy, kind of a historian.
          Yes, because your historians write so,

          The Etruscans were ancient tribes that inhabited in the first millennium BC. e. north-west of the Apennine Peninsula (area - ancient Etruria, modern Tuscany) between the Arno and Tiber rivers and created a developed civilization that preceded the Roman and had a great influence on it. Roman culture inherited many customs and traditions from the Etruscan culture. Around the XNUMXnd century BC. e., due to assimilation by Rome, the Etruscan civilization ceased to exist.


          https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/История_Древнего_Рима

          have you read the story?
          1. kalibr
            1 October 2020 12: 28
            +7
            Why should the title disappear?
            1. Bar1
              Bar1 1 October 2020 12: 47
              -4
              Quote: kalibr
              Why should the title disappear?

              because other peoples began to live in this country.
              1. kalibr
                1 October 2020 13: 52
                +5
                In Greece, too, over time, not the Greeks began to live, but all and sundry, but the name Hellas remained. The name of the localities is the most stable one in the language.
                1. Bar1
                  Bar1 1 October 2020 14: 09
                  -2
                  Quote: kalibr
                  In Greece, too, over time, not the Greeks began to live, but all and sundry, but the name Hellas remained. The name of the localities is the most stable one in the language.

                  unsuccessful example in Greece 96% Greeks / bitters. Themselves call themselves -Hellins-type divine. There will be 90% of Arabs all this goes, the country will be called some sort of Mauritania.
                  In France there were Gauls, the Romans came and ruined the breed, the Gauls became the French, although the Franks are Germans.
                  1. kalibr
                    1 October 2020 14: 12
                    +4
                    Quote: Bar1
                    in Greece 96% Greek

                    Today, and there were Macedonians, Epirus, Phrygians, Romans who conquered Greece, Visigoths, a bunch of Europeans-crusaders, Turks ... they were all ...
                    1. Bar1
                      Bar1 1 October 2020 14: 24
                      -3
                      Quote: kalibr
                      Quote: Bar1
                      in Greece 96% Greek

                      Today, and there were Macedonians, Epirus, Phrygians, Romans who conquered Greece, Visigoths, a bunch of Europeans-crusaders, Turks ... they were all ...

                      about Tripoli in Morey heard? So on some maps this Tripoli is called Tripolitsa, in Pelagian.
                      1. kalibr
                        1 October 2020 16: 19
                        +3
                        Quote: Bar1
                        So on some maps this Tripoli is called

                        And on some so Tripillya remained!
        2. Astra wild
          Astra wild 1 October 2020 20: 07
          +1
          You need to ask the great Fomenko about this
      3. kalibr
        1 October 2020 10: 01
        +6
        Quote: Bar1
        Those. over the centuries of the existence of Rome, and then the millennia of the Middle Ages, even the state-uniform language of communication could not develop.

        For thousands of years, a single language of communication has not developed in China. The southern Chinese do not understand the northern ones. You don’t know elementary things, but you undertake to judge "great matters", it's ridiculous.
        1. Bar1
          Bar1 1 October 2020 12: 14
          -8
          Quote: kalibr
          For thousands of years, a single language of communication has not developed in China. The southern Chinese do not understand the northern ones. You don’t know elementary things, but you undertake to judge "great matters", it's ridiculous.

          what does this mean? The fact that the Chinese language is by no means ancient, like the history of China itself. The history of China is invented. Until historians begin to study the real history of ancient Tartary, there will always be gaps, gaps and questions for the OI.
          1. kalibr
            1 October 2020 13: 49
            +4
            Quote: Bar1
            The history of China is invented.

            And the clay figures from Huangdi's tomb were made ... yesterday ...
            1. Bar1
              Bar1 1 October 2020 13: 53
              -5
              Quote: kalibr
              Quote: Bar1
              The history of China is invented.

              And the clay figures from Huangdi's tomb were made ... yesterday ...

              they say Comrade Mao ordered ...
              1. kalibr
                1 October 2020 14: 14
                +3
                What do the ICP-MS results for this ceramic say?
                1. Bar1
                  Bar1 1 October 2020 14: 19
                  -4
                  Quote: kalibr
                  What do the ICP-MS results for this ceramic say?

                  Let's look at some example / artifact for this dating and see how strictly scientific this technique is.
                  1. kalibr
                    1 October 2020 16: 24
                    +4
                    Quote: Bar1
                    Let's look at some example / artifact for this dating and see how strictly scientific this technique is.

                    Will your education allow you to do this? Understand such complex subjects?
                    1. Astra wild
                      Astra wild 1 October 2020 20: 14
                      +3
                      Vyacheslav Olegovich, you need to ask Fomenko, and Bar is just a conscientious repeater
                    2. Bar1
                      Bar1 2 October 2020 08: 10
                      0
                      Quote: kalibr
                      Quote: Bar1
                      Let's look at some example / artifact for this dating and see how strictly scientific this technique is.

                      Will your education allow you to do this? Understand such complex subjects?

                      These soldiers are not ceramic, but made of unburned clay. Since you started talking about the dating of this clay to the times of Shihuang, you would be so kind as to provide this work on dating this artifact.
                  2. Undecim
                    Undecim 1 October 2020 21: 59
                    +3
                    Let's look at some example / artifact for this dating and see how strictly scientific this technique is.
                    Bar, are you seriously considering the scientific nature of inductively coupled plasma mass spectrometry in archeology?
                    Please, indicate your educational qualification? Can you calculate the standard changes in the isobaric potential of a chemical reaction?
      4. Undecim
        Undecim 1 October 2020 11: 13
        +9
        Bar - you have once again demonstrated your profound ignorance. The map is published in 1733, but Italy on it - ancient... It shows the historical regions of Ancient Italy. Translate the name of the card.

        A similar map of the southern part of ancient Italy from The Historical Atlas by William R. Shepherd, 1911 edition. Compare if you can do it.
        Moreover, "Etruria", as a name, has not disappeared. The Grand Duchy of Tuscany, which existed from 1569 to 1801 in Latin Magnus Ducatus Etruriae, and existed from 1801 to 1807
        Regno d'etruria Kingdom of Etruria.
        1. Bar1
          Bar1 1 October 2020 11: 40
          -9
          Quote: Undecim
          Bar - you have once again demonstrated your profound ignorance. The map is from 1733, but Italy is ancient. It shows the historical regions of Ancient Italy. Translate the name of the card.

          there is nothing to translate here, it is written italy, not the Roman empire, so the vezhda was in flight.
          The fact that it seemed to him that "ancient" is only hallucinations from the eleventh, they are usually all so, what is written in 1733 is taken for antiquity.
          As for Etruria / correctly Etrusia, because the Etruscans lived there, you can, for example, bring up the famous atlas of Ortelius for 1588, there is also the same Etruria.
          Well, the fact that Etruria / Etrusia existed in the Middle Ages once again proves that OI is untrue.
          1. Undecim
            Undecim 1 October 2020 11: 49
            +8
            Bar, your ignorance is so deep that it even commands some respect, as does the stubbornness with which you defend it.
            Ask someone who knows French to translate the name of the card.
            And try to make money and go to Italy. If you find a place where two crops are harvested a year, write.
            1. Bar1
              Bar1 1 October 2020 12: 06
              -10 qualifying.
              Well, your stubbornness out of the blue does not even arouse respect. Where did you see there, some kind of antiquity? You live in your reality.
      5. Liam
        Liam 1 October 2020 11: 34
        +5
        Quote: Bar1
        two crops per year

        Are you serious?
        1. kalibr
          1 October 2020 12: 30
          +7
          An unhappy person, by the way. He doesn't know any languages, he hasn't been anywhere. Didn't see anything. I have never heard of frosts in Tuscany ... Piously believes that everything is not true ...
          1. Bar1
            Bar1 1 October 2020 12: 53
            -4
            some, when they are brought there, apart from local taverns and a mattress on the beach, they can't remember anything else.
            1. kalibr
              1 October 2020 12: 59
              +4
              Well, if you are reading my articles on VO, and you are reading them, you must understand that local taverns and a mattress on the beach are not for me. But you should start with this at least ... By the way, I can write to the Maritime Museum in Barcelona that we have a "historian" here who is interested in their map department, so to speak, you will be patronized if you decide to go there ... meet, create all the conditions for work.
              1. Astra wild
                Astra wild 1 October 2020 20: 23
                +2
                To work there, you must at least speak English, and even better: French and Italian. Otherwise there will be a conversation with a gorilla.
                1. kalibr
                  1 October 2020 20: 49
                  +2
                  Quote: Astra wild
                  Otherwise there will be a conversation with a gorilla.

                  That's right!
          2. Liam
            Liam 1 October 2020 13: 24
            +1
            For the sake of justice, I first heard this garbage from a Persian who is reputed to be an expert on the site and who allegedly was in Italy ... AiCh.
        2. The comment was deleted.
        3. Bar1
          Bar1 1 October 2020 14: 20
          0
          Quote: Liam
          Quote: Bar1
          two crops per year

          Are you serious?

          in Italy there are year-round plants that bear fruit all year round - this is a fact, the same lemons and oranges.
          1. kalibr
            1 October 2020 16: 22
            +3
            In fact, the Italians themselves talk all the time about the seasonality of their agriculture. There you just hear - "this is the season for this vegetable", "buy - the season", "don't buy - not the season!"
  2. Van 16
    Van 16 1 October 2020 06: 01
    +5
    Thank you, as always interesting!
    "Squadra Azzurra" is very well remembered in '82, I still remember many players by their names.
    Special thanks for the epigraph from the Kingdom of Crooked Mirrors))
    1. Phil77
      Phil77 1 October 2020 06: 39
      +7
      Quote: Van 16
      "Squadra Azzurra" is very well remembered in '82, I still remember many players by their names.

      Good morning! I agree! Buffon is just good, and Pirlo is generally out of competition!
      And then Balotelli, at least a little bit of intelligence, could have grown into a good player? Have a good day everyone!
      1. Liam
        Liam 1 October 2020 06: 51
        +6
        Quote: Phil77
        Quote: Van 16
        "Squadra Azzurra" is very well remembered in '82, I still remember many players by their names.

        Good morning! I agree! Buffon is just good, and Pirlo is generally out of competition!
        And then Balotelli, at least a little bit of intelligence, could have grown into a good player? Have a good day everyone!

        In 82, Dino Zoff was the goalkeeper, and Bylotelli was not yet born)
        1. Phil77
          Phil77 1 October 2020 08: 07
          +4
          Excuse me! On the photo is the Italian national team in 2012, I wrote about it. I can’t say anything about the 82-year-old championship. For .... it was somehow not up to football. Served, however! wink
          1. Liam
            Liam 1 October 2020 12: 08
            +3
            Quote: Phil77
            The photo shows the Italian national team in 2012, I wrote about it, but I can't say anything about the 82-year-old championship.

            And the post was about 82 years old)
            Team 2012 is rather weak. Especially compared to 1982 or 2006. Match Italy-Brazil 82 years, along with Italy-Germany 1970-one of the best in history
          2. Okolotochny
            Okolotochny 1 October 2020 14: 19
            +1
            Star 82g. was Paolo Rossi and his 6 goals.
    2. kalibr
      1 October 2020 06: 43
      +4
      I'm glad you liked it, but you, Ivan, are just like the hero from the movie Va-bank 3. He also remembered all the players, and the Russians ... They say, everyone knows the Germans.
      1. Van 16
        Van 16 1 October 2020 09: 17
        +3
        Um .. and the third all-bank I can't even remember, I see it flew past me ..
        It's just that that team was very bright, Rossi alone was worth what, like a devil from a snuffbox))
        1. kalibr
          1 October 2020 09: 54
          +3
          Be sure to check it out! Great movie!
          1. Van 16
            Van 16 1 October 2020 11: 24
            +3
            Thank you! I will definitely find it.
        2. Senior seaman
          Senior seaman 2 October 2020 10: 03
          +2
          Quote: Van 16
          third all-bank I can't even remember,

          Because "Va-Bank" is a dilogy and only the director and the criminal theme unites it with the film "Vinci".
          The name "Va-Bank-3" was given to the film by our distributors. But for the latter, this is the norm. They called "Under Siege" a sequel to "Niko" (Above the Law)
          1. Van 16
            Van 16 2 October 2020 11: 44
            +1
            Got it, thanks. All the same it is necessary to look, Va-bank was good.
            1. Astra wild
              Astra wild 2 October 2020 15: 42
              +1
              I myself wanted to say that I will look for
    3. Okolotochny
      Okolotochny 1 October 2020 14: 18
      +1
      And "Scuadro Azuro" - is it translated into "Blue Squadron", and not "Blue Team"?
  3. Liam
    Liam 1 October 2020 07: 34
    +4
    One of the versions why such a combination of colors (green-white-red) is that Mazzini took them from Dante's Divine Comedy.
    Dante descrive Beatrice:

    “[...] Sovra candido vel cinta d'uliva
    donna m'apparve, sotto verde manto
    vestita di color di fiamma viva. [...] "

    (Divina Commedia, Purgatorio, versi 28/33)
    .
    But the most realistic version is different. The Italian republics of the Napoleonic era, which were the first to use these flags, were inspired by the French, and the revolutionary French tricolor was originally red-white-green, not blue.
    1. Undecim
      Undecim 1 October 2020 13: 04
      +3
      But the most realistic version is different. The Italian republics of the Napoleonic era, which were the first to use these flags, were inspired by the French, and the revolutionary French tricolor was originally red-white-green, not blue.
      Can you cite a source about the red-white-green French flag? Because the French themselves, represented by historians, do not report this fact.
      1. Liam
        Liam 1 October 2020 13: 22
        +1
        Because green lasted literally days after which it was changed to blue. But in Italy, the newspapers initially wrote about green and it stuck.
        https://books.google.it/books?id=-ynpQ5lnU2EC&pg=PA174&lpg=PA174&dq=Camille+Desmoulins+coccarda+francese+verde+foglie&source=bl&ots=yh3IejczPE&sig=9lSL3O5ZuEuSstTYaZt0AGCvhjI&hl=it&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj_mbftrsrSAhVGESwKHd2kBwoQ6AEIIDAB#v=onepage&q=Camille%20Desmoulins%20coccarda%20francese%20verde%20foglie&f=false
        1. Undecim
          Undecim 1 October 2020 13: 50
          +3
          I don't speak Italian.
          1. Liam
            Liam 1 October 2020 13: 53
            +2
            Quote: Liam
            Camille Desmoulins

            This revolutionary journalist asked the crowd which color they preferred green or blue for the cockade before the Bastille rally on July 12, and the crowd replied green.
            This is a short retelling)
            1. Undecim
              Undecim 1 October 2020 14: 37
              +2
              Thanks, I already figured it out.
              It seems to me that this version is just as plausible as the version that the white-red-green tricolor was borrowed from the "Egyptian Freemasonry" founded by the swindler Kalliostro.
              A much more plausible version is that Napoleon simply proposed changing the color blue to green to distinguish Italians from the French on the battlefield.
              1. Liam
                Liam 1 October 2020 15: 19
                0
                Quote: Undecim
                Napoleon

                The first documented fact of the use of the Italian tricolor was August 21, 1789, long before Napoleon, and the tricolor was persistently called French)


                della coccarda tricolore italiana è datata 21 agosto 1789: negli archivi storici della Repubblica di Genova è riportato che testimoni oculari avessero visto aggirarsi per la città alcuni aventi appuntata sui vestiti [15]:

                "[...] la nuova coccarda francese bianca, rossa e verde introdotta da poco tempo a Parigi [...]"

                (Archivio storico della Repubblica di Genova


                http://www.risorgimento.it/rassegna/index.php?id=10511&ricerca_inizio=0&ricerca_query=&ricerca_ordine=DESC&ricerca_libera=
                1. Undecim
                  Undecim 1 October 2020 15: 21
                  +1
                  It means all the same Cagliostro.
      2. Liam
        Liam 1 October 2020 13: 49
        0
        And then about the confusion with blue / green in Italian newspapers of that era.
        Nicola Ferorelli, La vera origine del tricolore italiano, in Rassegna storica del Risorgimento, vol. XII, fasc. III, 1925, p. 666.

        http://www.risorgimento.it/rassegna/index.php?id=10515&ricerca_inizio=0&ricerca_query=&ricerca_ordine=DESC&ricerca_libera=
  4. Liam
    Liam 1 October 2020 07: 38
    +1
    Sardinia region flag. All emblems on it, including the lambel, are very ancient


    Flag of the Sardinia-other region

    https://it.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bandiera_della_Sardegna
    1. kalibr
      1 October 2020 07: 44
      +3
      It's good that you noticed. Thanks! But also the original is very old - there is an image of 1536
      1. Liam
        Liam 1 October 2020 07: 53
        +1
        Just the flags of Sardinia and Sicily are very original and memorable.
        https://it.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bandiera_della_Sicilia
        1. depressant
          depressant 1 October 2020 08: 37
          +4
          I liked the 1802 - 1805 flag.
          Malevich is resting! )))
          1. kalibr
            1 October 2020 09: 54
            +2
            Yes, the original design, for the early 19th century, something out of the ordinary ...
            1. depressant
              depressant 1 October 2020 11: 15
              +4
              Exactly! Suprematism in its purest form)))
              And the flag with rags touches. The women tried, they sewed these rags so as not to get shaggy, but they fluttered in the wind in the right way, creating the illusion of even more rapid forward movement during the jump. This is for the enemy to shudder additionally! How much they fought! How many centuries the greatness of the Roman Empire was consistently destroyed, boiling down to where it began - to the mafia clans. It's amazing how everything returns to normal. Damn it, or the peculiarities of the territory?
              1. kalibr
                1 October 2020 12: 34
                +2
                Quote: depressant
                Damn it, or the peculiarities of the territory?

                I don’t know, Lyudmila Yakovlevna! Traveled all over northern Italy. It is very even there and everything is sown, plowed. The farms ... all the houses are old, the roofs are tiled. But all around canals, irrigation machines are working ... there is nowhere to spit so as not to get into the planting. And where there are mountains and hills, there are vineyards around. So if we talk about the peculiarity of the territory, then about the north of Italy we can say in one word - the granary!
                1. depressant
                  depressant 1 October 2020 13: 13
                  +2
                  That is the same Austria has continuously buried itself in Northern Italy. Or maybe it was under the influence of the Austrians that Northern Italy became so ... well-groomed. In general, I really respect Austria. For their love of art, especially music. As for the Italians, I think they got everything from the Middle Ages. Their only achievement is cinema, and even that is already in the past. Neorealism with its long talking pauses, during which the viewer had to get what the director wanted to say with them))) Sometimes it came, often not so much. Cinema is still a visual series.
                  But times have changed. Dynamics, speed, movement ... Pauses are not held in high esteem. Has anything changed in Italy itself? Or she remained on a pause and only touches the old flags, examining them and recalling the stormy, dangerous, but so young times long gone.
                  1. kalibr
                    1 October 2020 13: 19
                    +2
                    Quote: depressant
                    Or she remained on a pause and only touches the old flags, examining them and recalling the stormy, dangerous, but so young times long gone.

                    I read a number of books written by Americans and Englishmen who moved to Italy. Why? And it's calm there! Not in Rome, of course. No one is in a hurry and everyone eats very tasty!
                  2. kalibr
                    1 October 2020 13: 22
                    +2
                    I also drove through Austria and was surprised by two things: the number of tunnels and farms on the hills, and also the small harvesters harvesting wheat on their slopes. Well, Vienna's museums are unforgettable. Richer than Paris, Venice, Berlin ... Although there is Pergamon in Berlin, there are Ephesian marbles in Vienna.
                    1. depressant
                      depressant 1 October 2020 13: 32
                      +2
                      Do you know what buys me in Austria?
                      There is a stage outside the city, surrounded by a forest. Not a stadium, but a stage and spectator seats on the hillside, designed for several thousand people. There concerts are held from spring to late autumn. And if it's cold, the listeners wrap themselves in the blankets they brought with them. And the "auditorium" is always crowded. And they don't give pop music from the stage, but serious orchestras play serious music. Culture, however. I really like it, and I miss it so much in life! As if people there live in another time dimension.
                      1. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 1 October 2020 20: 24
                        +2
                        And in Rhodes, every year, there is a jazz festival in early August.
                    2. Liam
                      Liam 1 October 2020 13: 37
                      +2
                      Quote: kalibr
                      the number of tunnels and farms in the hills

                      From Udine to Graz, I somehow counted them 27
                  3. Liam
                    Liam 1 October 2020 13: 41
                    +3
                    Quote: depressant
                    remained on a pause and only goes through the old flags, examining them and remembering

                    ))) Italy is in the 10 most developed economically, science, culture, sports and industry countries of the world, as it were, and if at the same time they manage to carefully preserve the historical heritage - only to the advantage of 70% of the world cultural heritage - has Italian roots
                    1. depressant
                      depressant 1 October 2020 14: 02
                      +1
                      This is true)) And if we add Roman law here, then the Apennine Peninsula gave a lot to the world. But it all started with two frostbitten hooligans - Romulus and Rem. Here is such a powerful message for millennia gives a passionate desire for power)))
                      1. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 1 October 2020 20: 38
                        +1
                        But it all started with two frostbitten hooligans - Romulus and Rem.
                        In this case, it all started with Jupiter's patricide.
                  4. 3x3zsave
                    3x3zsave 1 October 2020 20: 13
                    +1
                    Their only achievement is cinema
                    You are greatly mistaken, Lyudmila Yakovlevna.
                    1. depressant
                      depressant 1 October 2020 20: 48
                      +1
                      You are probably right))) I don't know much about modern Italy. A lot - about the medieval. But also, apparently, not all. Over the past century - physics, mathematics, that is, what is close to me, I'm a techie)))
                      1. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 1 October 2020 20: 58
                        +2
                        My respect, Lyudmila Yakovlevna! I, too, am not a techie, or rather a "captive techie." However, I will note that the Italians throughout the twentieth century were at the forefront of technical thought embodied in metal.
                      2. depressant
                        depressant 1 October 2020 21: 32
                        +1
                        Colleague, very interesting. Do you mean cars?
                      3. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 1 October 2020 21: 56
                        +1
                        Not only. Fleet, aviation, rifleman ...
          2. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave 1 October 2020 20: 00
            +1
            The women tried, they sewed these rags so as not to get shaggy,
            Women tried hard until a certain Joseph Murrow, in 1877, invented the overlock.
  • ee2100
    ee2100 1 October 2020 07: 47
    +1
    "" Squadra Azzurra "(" blue team ")"
    The Italian national football team wears a blue and white uniform and is called "gli azzurri" (azure) or "l'undici azzurro" (eleven azure).
    At Zenith, this season, one of the home colors of the form is azure.
    1. Phil77
      Phil77 1 October 2020 08: 11
      +2
      Quote: ee2100
      At Zenith, this season,

      Better about CSKA! laughing good
      1. ee2100
        ee2100 1 October 2020 08: 19
        +1
        Hello! This season, the color of the uniform is mourning!
        1. Phil77
          Phil77 1 October 2020 18: 37
          +1
          Quote: ee2100
          the color of the form is mourning!

          Greetings Alexander! Yes, it's not even the color of the uniform. The amount of advertising on it is frustrating! They have become like hockey players of Finnish clubs, which is somehow not very beautiful for football.
          I understand perfectly well that the club makes money on it, but ..... I am depressed. belay
          1. ee2100
            ee2100 1 October 2020 19: 53
            +1
            The market dictates the rules. This is the harsh truth!
      2. Undecim
        Undecim 1 October 2020 09: 00
        +5
        Better about CSKA
        The sound of hooves is heard, the drawbar appears.
        This is our CSKA from the stables.
        1. Phil77
          Phil77 1 October 2020 18: 40
          +1
          Quote: Undecim
          The sound of hooves is heard, the drawbar appears.
          This is our CSKA from the stables.

          Victor Nikolaevich !!!!!!
          Here is the right word-dumbfounded !!!! Surprised !!!!!
          smile
          This is what you gave out !!!!
          1. Undecim
            Undecim 1 October 2020 18: 41
            +4
            This chant is at least 45 years old.
            1. Phil77
              Phil77 1 October 2020 19: 13
              +3
              Quote: Undecim
              This chant is at least 45 years old.

              So it's not about age, but the very fact of quoting it! Suddenly, somehow. Such a serious person and suddenly - bahhhhhh!
              And a cheerleader chant.
              You did it very well! laughing
              1. Undecim
                Undecim 1 October 2020 19: 17
                +3
                You see, I am also a fan with a decent experience, so at 50 years old. Now, however, it has cooled down. Is that European football and basketball, or the NBA. But so, for fun.
                And he played himself.
                1. Phil77
                  Phil77 1 October 2020 19: 19
                  +2
                  Allow me a question? Club?
                  1. Undecim
                    Undecim 1 October 2020 19: 20
                    +2
                    ZII (Zaporozhye), handball.
                2. Astra wild
                  Astra wild 1 October 2020 21: 42
                  +1
                  Victor Nikolaevich, what club were you a fan of?
                  I'm not the most fanatical, but I was for CSKA. While my mother was alive, I was indifferent to sports.
                  And in the family of the future mother-in-law, she joined. Father-in-law and husband were hockey lovers, and I watched, but somehow basketball is more
                  1. Undecim
                    Undecim 1 October 2020 21: 47
                    +2
                    Football - Dynamo (Kiev), hockey - CSKA.
                    1. Astra wild
                      Astra wild 2 October 2020 08: 40
                      0
                      In the part of football, in honor were: Alania and Spartak Moscow
                      1. Undecim
                        Undecim 2 October 2020 09: 09
                        -1
                        Alania - this is in the days of the USSR - Spartak (Ordzhonikidze), the bottom of the tournament table.
                      2. Phil77
                        Phil77 2 October 2020 15: 05
                        +1
                        Quote: Undecim
                        Spartak (Ordzhonikidze), the bottom of the standings.
                        Reply

                        Bottom.But 1995 came and ....
                        Oh, wondrous miracle, the grimace of Russian football!
                        * Spartak-Alania * -champion of Russia. How did they achieve this? Oh, really, it's not worth it. It's still * the nineties *. laughing
    2. Trilobite Master
      Trilobite Master 1 October 2020 11: 19
      +6
      Quote: Phil77
      Better about CSKA!

      Well, at least we won't quarrel about Spartak ... laughing
      1. Catfish
        Catfish 1 October 2020 13: 25
        +4
        "It is a sacred thing to drink to Spartak!" (from) laughing
        1. Trilobite Master
          Trilobite Master 1 October 2020 13: 45
          +4
          Quote: Sea Cat
          "It is a sacred thing to drink to Spartak!"

          Well, behind the wheel after that ... fool
          1. Catfish
            Catfish 1 October 2020 14: 15
            +3
            With madama for a couple. laughing drinks
        2. Phil77
          Phil77 1 October 2020 18: 42
          +1
          Quote: Sea Cat
          "It is a sacred thing to drink to Spartak!" (from)

          *Election Day*? drinks
          1. Catfish
            Catfish 1 October 2020 18: 43
            +2
            It is the same, but the "father" is still drunk - he is sitting in the dope. laughing drinks
      2. Undecim
        Undecim 1 October 2020 15: 13
        +3
        Well, at least we won't quarrel about Spartak ...
        Like a ... a splinter, like a weed in a field,
        Spartak Moscow is sticking out in the Premier League.
        1. Trilobite Master
          Trilobite Master 1 October 2020 16: 28
          +4
          I remember a lot of such jokes ... smile
          However, given that for some, love for a sports club is akin to religion, I won't bring them here - hell knows, maybe the article will be sewn ...
          Public actions expressing a clear disrespect for society and committed in order to insult the religious feelings of believers -
          shall be punishable by a fine in the amount of up to three hundred thousand rubles or in the amount of the convict's wages or other income for a period of up to two years, or by compulsory labor for a term of up to two hundred and forty hours, or forced labor for a term of up to one year, or imprisonment for the same term.

          No I do not want. smile
        2. Liam
          Liam 1 October 2020 19: 10
          0
          Are you a Dynamo K. fan?)
          1. Solo2503
            Solo2503 1 October 2020 21: 25
            +1
            "Dynamo Kiev!" - the school of Soviet football! "- September 1986, Kiev, Khreschatyk. After the victory. Continuation of the stellar season.
      3. Phil77
        Phil77 1 October 2020 18: 42
        +2
        Quote: Trilobite Master
        Well, at least we won't quarrel about Spartak ...

        No! It's not worth it! wink
    3. Catfish
      Catfish 1 October 2020 13: 28
      +3
      "... Let intrigues be woven in the Higher League,
      And let the Canadian name is hockey,
      You have the floor, see you again!
      ... And the players - until better days. "(C) soldier
      1. Phil77
        Phil77 1 October 2020 19: 07
        +2
        Quote: Sea Cat

        +2
        "... Let intrigues be woven in the Higher League,
        And let the Canadian name is hockey,
        You have the floor, see you again!

        Hi Konstantin! Good song about the Viennese champion '67. I read about the history of the creation of this song. For participation in this championship, the Canadians gathered the strongest * amateurs * and diluted with several pros, including Carl Braver from * Toronto *, three-time Stanley Cup winner. Ours won 2-1, and the game was made by * Spartak players * -Starshinov and Mayorov.
        History, however! hi
        1. Catfish
          Catfish 1 October 2020 19: 22
          +2
          I saw this game, the whole family sat at the TV and cheered for ours, even my mother, for which she was far from sports and then sat out from beginning to end. And when the Canadians went on the ice with the pastor, there was no end to the corresponding remarks. good
          "And their coach, well, as luck would have it,
          He's before the fight
          knew that they were weak,
          They prayed in formation - it didn't help! " smile
  • Kote Pan Kokhanka
    Kote Pan Kokhanka 1 October 2020 08: 44
    +5
    Thank you Vyacheslav Olegovich, I read it in one breath, we are waiting for the continuation!
    1. kalibr
      1 October 2020 09: 53
      +2
      The continuation is being written ...
  • Trilobite Master
    Trilobite Master 1 October 2020 11: 16
    +4
    Just for fun, I looked at what colors are used on the flags of the Italian regions. It became interesting what color is used most often.
    He took seven heraldic colors and, at his discretion, attributed this or that color to any heraldic one. For example, pink was considered red, gray - white, blue - blue. If a color is found in a very scanty amount, I did not count it.
    So, we have twenty regions, each with its own symbolism. Next: the color and the number of times it was used in the coat of arms or flag of a particular region.
    Red - 14
    Blue - 12
    Green - 9
    Black - 7
    Magenta - 1
    Yellow - 7
    White - 18
    In total, white is in the lead with a clear margin - 18 out of 20, it is not in the symbolism of only two regions
    In second place - red - 14 out of 20
    In third place is blue - 12 out of 20.
    Green is not among the top three winners. request
    By the way, it seems to me that these same heraldic colors may well be arranged in the same order if we analyze the flags and emblems of, for example, all countries in general. But I'm too lazy to do it. laughing
    1. kalibr
      1 October 2020 12: 38
      +3
      Hats off to such hard work and resourcefulness. Wonderful study and addition! This is not a Bar with a card "Ancient Italy" ... And what about white is not surprising. The white star on the coat of arms of Italy is one of its ancient symbols.
      1. Trilobite Master
        Trilobite Master 1 October 2020 13: 24
        +3
        Vyacheslav Olegovich, for everything about everything, no more than twenty minutes, plus write the text of the comment itself. When fast internet is at hand, there are no problems at all. smile
        I opened a text file, wrote down the names of the colors, opened the "administrative division of Italy" in Wiki, clicked on each region and then opened the required page, looked at the colors, put one against each color in the text file. Consider the result, write a comment, that's it! smile
        No hard work, banal curiosity. smile
        1. kalibr
          1 October 2020 13: 44
          +3
          Quote: Trilobite Master
          No hard work, banal curiosity.

          In principle, yes, but it didn't occur to me.
      2. Trilobite Master
        Trilobite Master 1 October 2020 13: 39
        +3
        For fun. The same layout for the colors of the flags of the European states. I started doing it as soon as I finished writing the previous comment.
        red 40
        blue 27
        green 8
        black xnumx
        magenta 0
        yellow 19
        white 36
        No labor. smile
      3. Bar1
        Bar1 1 October 2020 14: 31
        -4
        Quote: kalibr
        This is not a Bar with an "Ancient Italy" card ..


        Nnda and then lied, lied again?
        1. kalibr
          1 October 2020 15: 32
          +4
          Quote: Bar1
          lied again?

          In what? Isn't the map yours and doesn't it have the inscription "Ancient Italy" on it?
    2. arturpraetor
      arturpraetor 1 October 2020 14: 51
      +4
      Quote: Trilobite Master
      By the way, it seems to me that these same heraldic colors may well be arranged in the same order if we analyze the flags and emblems of, for example, all countries in general.

      Duc is the same, in heraldry and vexillology white, blue and red are considered the most common colors, their combination is considered the most harmonious, and individually they are the most, so to speak, aesthetic. From which some not very distant people often draw far-reaching conclusions. I've even met some shots who believed that Napoleon (exactly he!) Stole the French tricolor from Russia laughing
    3. Undecim
      Undecim 1 October 2020 15: 19
      +2
      By the way, it seems to me that these same heraldic colors may well be arranged in the same order if we analyze the flags and emblems of, for example, all countries in general. But I'm too lazy to do it
      This has already been done.
      1. kalibr
        1 October 2020 15: 34
        +2
        Look how commoners were drawn to "nobility"? Blue - "nobility".
  • kalibr
    1 October 2020 13: 59
    +2
    Quote: Bar1
    , well, except for the Romanians who talk in Romance

    Do Romanians speak Italian?
    1. Bar1
      Bar1 1 October 2020 14: 27
      -2
      Quote: kalibr
      Quote: Bar1
      , well, except for the Romanians who talk in Romance

      Do Romanians speak Italian?

      everyone says damn ... bully

      1. kalibr
        1 October 2020 15: 38
        +3
        Well, if "damn it", then there is nothing to add ...
        1. Trilobite Master
          Trilobite Master 1 October 2020 16: 09
          +5
          Yes, actually, there is nothing to add. wassat
          A group founded by an Englishwoman singing in Italian is the best proof that Romanians speak Italian. laughing
          Group members:
          Heather 'Hetty' Loxton - vocals
          Charlotte Jolly - clarinet
          Fabrizio Bonacci - guitar
          Alessandro Cimaski - double bass
          Riccardo Castellani - percussion.
          Hometown London, Rome, Brescia, Catanzaro.
          And their music is pleasant ...
  • Undecim
    Undecim 1 October 2020 15: 11
    +2
    But they all obeyed one rule: they had to have a hint of support from higher powers. Hence, gold is the color of paradise, blue is the “divine heaven”, red is the color of the militant church, white is the purity and purely “dovish” innocence, in a word, the entire Christian faith was reflected on the flags of medieval Italy. And all the colors ...
    You, Vyacheslav Olegovich, give the meaning of flowers in accordance with the iconographic canons. But flags are not an icon, they were hardly created according to the canons of icon painting, this is still heraldry and vexillology.
    Hence, gold is a symbol of wealth, justice and generosity, on the flag is the desire for victory.
    1. kalibr
      1 October 2020 15: 37
      +2
      In the Middle Ages, "divinity" dominated in all manifestations, including with respect to flags and coats of arms!
  • kalibr
    1 October 2020 15: 39
    0
    Quote: depressant
    As if people there live in another time dimension.

    That's it!
  • Bar1
    Bar1 1 October 2020 15: 52
    -2
    Quote: kalibr
    Quote: Bar1
    lied again?

    In what? Isn't the map yours and doesn't it have the inscription "Ancient Italy" on it?

    no, no ..
    1. kalibr
      1 October 2020 16: 12
      +5
      No, not "no" - you brought this card here
      But this card is the HISTORY OF ITALY ROMAN TIME. From the book of a certain Rollin ... But Etruria in Roman times is quite normal. Languages, Bar, you need to know! At least to read the signatures on the cards!
      1. Bar1
        Bar1 1 October 2020 17: 11
        -3
        Quote: kalibr
        But this card is the HISTORY OF ITALY ROMAN TIME. From the book of a certain Rollin ... But Etruria in Roman times is quite normal. Languages, Bar, you need to know! At least to read the signatures on the cards!


        no, it's not written that way.
        written
        Italy
        neat so-called
        for exploration of Roman history
        Mr Rolling
        spoken by (elder) Anville
        geographer king
        December 1738

        Well, where do you see that here is a map of the Roman era, if Italy is written large? But if this is the Roman Empire, then it was slightly larger than on this map.
        in short, here is the atlas of Ortelius in 1570, where he describes exactly his time, and so here is the Roman province, which at this time -1570 was called Hetruria.


        and not any ansaents ...
        1. Undecim
          Undecim 1 October 2020 17: 25
          +6
          That's right, Bar. Ignorance should never be hidden. If you hide your ignorance, you will not be hit and you will never grow wiser.
          And so there is a chance.
          1. Bar1
            Bar1 1 October 2020 17: 35
            -7
            there is folk wisdom about you too
            To teach a fool is only to spoil. Very precisely.
            1. Undecim
              Undecim 1 October 2020 17: 36
              +5
              You see, you have already moved on to insults. This is a clear sign that you agree with me.
              1. Bar1
                Bar1 1 October 2020 17: 42
                -6
                Quote: Undecim
                You see, you have already moved on to insults. This is a clear sign that you agree with me.

                did you like it? masochism, some sort.
                1. Undecim
                  Undecim 1 October 2020 17: 45
                  +7
                  Explorer's curiosity. I'm an amateur entomologist. And you are an interesting subject for study.
                  1. Bar1
                    Bar1 1 October 2020 17: 50
                    -6
                    Quote: Undecim
                    Explorer's curiosity. I'm an amateur entomologist. And you are an interesting subject for study.

                    you need it to the butterflies, or the red-white in Belarus call Lukashenka the cockroach, you go there. And leave the story behind.
                  2. Astra wild
                    Astra wild 1 October 2020 21: 54
                    +2
                    Victor Nikolaevich, +: it turned out very poisonous and funny
            2. Astra wild
              Astra wild 1 October 2020 21: 52
              +3
              Bar, I would like to be such a fool as Viktor Nikolaevich.
          2. Trilobite Master
            Trilobite Master 1 October 2020 19: 02
            +5
            A hundred years later, Bar's great-grandson will find in the library of some school a map of Kievan Rus with the date of issue and will prove, pointing his finger at it, that Kievan Rus existed in the XNUMXth century ...
            1. Bar1
              Bar1 2 October 2020 10: 53
              -1
              Quote: Trilobite Master
              A hundred years later, Bar's great-grandson will find in the library of some school a map of Kievan Rus with the date of issue and will prove, pointing his finger at it, that Kievan Rus existed in the XNUMXth century ...

              in Soviet times, all maps of the early periods were signed specifically "... map of Russia 9-11v", therefore, it was impossible to confuse something.
              Well, as usual, you see something wrong, hear the ringing and sculpt a humpback.
        2. Legionista
          Legionista 1 October 2020 18: 07
          +6
          no, it's not written that way.
          written
          Italy
          neat so-called
          for exploration of Roman history
          Mr Rolling
          spoken by (elder) Anville
          geographer king
          December 1738
          request wassat wassat
          The following is written: Italy is the correct (correct) map, for the study of the Roman History of Mr. ROLLIN.
          Charles ROLLIN - French professor, historian, who wrote in 1738-1748 "Roman History from the Creation of Rome to the Battle of Actium (September 2, 31 BC)
          1. Bar1
            Bar1 1 October 2020 19: 46
            -3
            Quote: Legionista
            no, it's not written that way.
            written
            Italy
            neat so-called
            for exploration of Roman history
            Mr Rolling
            spoken by (elder) Anville
            geographer king
            December 1738
            request wassat wassat
            The following is written: Italy is the correct (correct) map, for the study of the Roman History of Mr. ROLLIN.
            Charles ROLLIN - French professor, historian, who wrote in 1738-1748 "Roman History from the Creation of Rome to the Battle of Actium (September 2, 31 BC)

            the word l'intelligence does not mean to study. Where did you get such a translation?
        3. kalibr
          1 October 2020 18: 29
          +4
          Quote: Bar1
          Italy
          neat so-called
          for exploration of Roman history
          Mr Rolling
          spoken by (elder) Anville
          geographer king
          December 1738

          No need to translate via google. This is bad manners, you know! Google won't teach good things! Especially "Mr. Rolling" sounds - straight from A. Tolstoy ...
        4. kalibr
          1 October 2020 21: 02
          0
          Quote: Bar1
          But if this is the Roman Empire

          But this is ITALY OF ROMAN TIME, NOT EMPIRE! ONLY ITALY. Got it? You don't even know how to read, Bar. Well, you can't do that, well, and Google translator - oh, how wretched it is!
    2. Undecim
      Undecim 1 October 2020 16: 46
      +6
      Bar, if you suddenly happen to get to Africa, you never know, the international congress of the ignorant will be held or some other occasion, never swim in the Congo River.
      1. Bar1
        Bar1 1 October 2020 17: 16
        -6
        Quote: Undecim
        Bar, if you suddenly happen to get to Africa, you never know, the international congress of the ignorant will be held or some other occasion, never swim in the Congo River.

        Nnda and where did you see Lyapis-Trubitskoy that the waterfall would fall with a rapid jack?
        Just shoot the sparrows from the Congo.
        1. Undecim
          Undecim 1 October 2020 17: 20
          +4
          Your business, I warned you.
          1. Liam
            Liam 1 October 2020 19: 19
            +1
            By the way. I recently read one study of geneticists. Serious geneticists, and not the corps de ballet which chicks here all the time. They studied the DNA of the inhabitants of several towns in Tuscany where the Etruscans lived and it is assumed that genetic traces have survived. In general, geneticists have established that the genetic code of the Etruscans is closest to some the peoples of Asia Minor (Anatolia). Most likely their historical "homeland" is
            1. Undecim
              Undecim 1 October 2020 20: 43
              +4
              Wait, the Bar will get to you. On his bedroom wall there probably hangs a portrait of the professor and academician of the unprecedented academy Chudinov, who said that the Etruscans are Russians, and Perugia is CE RUSA PERUSIA or THIS IS RUSSIAN RUSSIA.
              Moreover, oddly enough, this rattle, about the Etruscans - Russians, was invented by the purebred Prussian German Klassen back in the century before last.
              1. Liam
                Liam 1 October 2020 20: 51
                +2
                ))
                In the same study, there was such a curious moment. They compared the DNA of 3 genetic scientists. 2 Americans and South Korean. It turned out that one American had much more DNA in% coincided with a Korean than with a second American)
                All serious genetic studies are only two facts.
                1. All people are brothers with common ancestors.
                2. We all come from Africa.

                Everything else is nonsense of varying degrees of harmlessness
              2. Bar1
                Bar1 2 October 2020 08: 33
                -1
                but not perusia, namely Perusia is written on this particular map.
            2. kalibr
              1 October 2020 20: 57
              +3
              Quote: Liam
              We examined the DNA of the inhabitants of several Tuscan towns where the Etruscans lived and it is assumed that genetic traces have survived. In general, geneticists have established that the genetic code of the Etruscans is closest to some peoples of Asia Minor (Anatolia). Most likely their historical "homeland" is there

              There will be a series of articles about this soon. I am now contacting the Italian museums of the history of the Etruscans, I would like to write in more detail about their culture and with rare photos. I had an article "Etruscans against Russians" here, but I found a lot of new interesting facts. Hope we can just "travel" through their museums and see a lot of interesting things!
              1. Liam
                Liam 1 October 2020 21: 06
                0
                If you want and help in writing articles, I can look for links to this study
                1. kalibr
                  1 October 2020 21: 10
                  +1
                  I would be very grateful. Read about it but it will save time. By the way, the work you recommended after the article about Borodino ... I read it and I will find how to use it, thanks.
                  1. Liam
                    Liam 1 October 2020 21: 24
                    +1
                    Here are works in English on this topic. From English it will be easier with translation.

                    Belle EMS, Ramakrishnan U., Mountain J. and Barbujani G. (2006) Serial coalescent simulations suggest a weak genealogical relationship between Etruscans and modern Tuscans, Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences USA.

                    Guimaraes S., Ghirotto S., Benazzo A., Milani L., Lari M., Pilli E., Pecchioli E., Mallegni F., Lippi B., Bertoldi F., Gelichi S., Casoli A., Belle EMS , Caramelli D., Barbujani G. (2009) Genealogical discontinuities among Etruscan, Medieval and contemporary Tuscans, Molecular Biology and Evolution


                    There is a lecture on YouTube by Professor Barbujani on this topic. Everything is more concise and easier for a layman to understand. But there it is more difficult in Italian and with translation.

                    https://youtu.be/0uXBZ0cNd8k
                    1. kalibr
                      2 October 2020 05: 47
                      0
                      Thanks! I will definitely meet you.
  • Astra wild
    Astra wild 1 October 2020 20: 01
    +2
    [quote = kalibr] But the "great Rome" could not impose its language on other peoples, as the Germans did Balakali in their own way then, so all this continues to this day.
    ALL PEOPLES OF EUROPE TALK IN POORED LATIN. The Higher School even has a faculty: ROMANO-GERMAN PHILOLOGY. They are so similar. And all the peoples of Europe, Great Rome imposed its faith. Nobody remained in paganism.
    There was a girl in our class, she knew English perfectly and I SAMA learned German. She said that English is tainted German or vice versa.
    After school, she went to RGF
    1. kalibr
      1 October 2020 20: 58
      +1
      They're all tainted Latin!
      1. Hantengri
        Hantengri 1 October 2020 21: 26
        +2
        Quote: kalibr

        They're all tainted Latin!

        Especially if you forget that about the fact that once existed, oddly enough, a language common to all Germanic tribes ... And before it - a language common to Germans and Celts ...
      2. Bar1
        Bar1 2 October 2020 09: 30
        -1
        Quote: kalibr
        They're all tainted Latin!


        and these "historians" are broadcasting here about the days gone by? European languages ​​are spoiled Latin !?
        For such a passage, Shpakovsky would have been kicked out of the exam in this philology, with a retake in the fall, because this is not so.
        -lexic base -foundation in Latin, but of course there are endemic words.
        -phonetics - all European languages ​​are different
        -morphology-different
        -semantics-different
        how can you blurt out that?
        For example, if Russian, if he listens, he will always understand a Ukrainian, how Ukrainians do not try, but so far the Ukrainian language has not run too far aside, because the basis of Ukrainian is still Russian rules and a dictionary.
        But let's say, Low German-Dutch and some sort of Swabian upper German, it will be a problem to understand each other.
        and this applies not only to the dictionary.

        and English, with its simplified genders and cases of nouns and vice versa, are unjustifiably complicated forms of verb conjugation? These are big differences from, say, the rules of the Berlin dialect.
        Probably knowing the English caliber, he does not know Latin (a good historian), so he allows himself this. Well, since on this forum people do not share according to reason, but rally according to ideology, it becomes possible to sculpt any amateurish statements.
        1. kalibr
          2 October 2020 09: 49
          0
          Quote: Bar1
          -lexic base -foundation in Latin

          !!!!!!!!!!!
  • Astra wild
    Astra wild 1 October 2020 20: 55
    +2
    "The creation of the national flag is associated with the names of two students of the University of Bologna: Luigi Zamboni and Giovanni Batista De Rolandis ... And in order to distinguish our own from others, they invented cockades of the colors of the Italian national flag", perhaps I am the Chukchi or the creators of the Chukchi legend. National flag colors for the State Flag. In my opinion this is the same
    1. Undecim
      Undecim 1 October 2020 21: 00
      +2
      maybe I'm Chukchi
      Without any doubt. It means that the cockades were of the same colors that were later chosen for the state flag.
      1. Astra wild
        Astra wild 1 October 2020 22: 00
        +1
        Thanks for the complement"
        1. Undecim
          Undecim 1 October 2020 22: 02
          +1
          This is nothing more than a friendly joke. You are the only woman in our company at the moment, you have become coarse without female attention, you have lost your gloss.
          Communicating with bars and not so sometimes you say.
    2. Senior seaman
      Senior seaman 2 October 2020 09: 55
      +1
      Quote: Astra wild
      National flag colors for the State Flag. In my opinion this is the same

      Not necessary. And now not all nations have their own national state, and there are at least a dime a dozen such examples in history.