Military Review

When and why vodka appeared in Russia

214

The well-known and widespread concept of "vodka" raises few questions from anyone (why it is called that and when it appeared). We do not think about the origin of the words "vodka", "moonshine", "sivukha", "fume", why the moonshine is not boiled, but "driven", what is the volume of the "stack", "bottle", "quarter", "bucket" and what is the difference between a tavern and a tavern. And all of them are of ancient Russian origin and are associated with the emergence of vodka.


The fight for the vodka brand


It is believed that vodka is a primordially Russian alcoholic drink and it was born in Russia, but not all vodka producers agreed with this and tried to appropriate this brand for themselves. In the late 70s of the XX century, a "case" was provoked about the priority of using the "vodka" brand by a number of American companies, they tried to challenge the priority of the Soviet Union and arrogate to themselves a priority right on the basis that they allegedly started production earlier than Soviet firms. but they could not prove it.

Strangely enough, Poland was seriously trying to appropriate this brand, justifying this by the fact that vodka was invented and produced on its territory earlier than in Russia, since Ukraine and Belarus were part of Poland at that time.

The case came to the International Arbitration: in 1978, a trial began for the primacy of the brand "vodka". In the USSR, there was no evidence of the origin of vodka on its territory. The Soviet historian William Pokhlebkin took up the resolution of this issue and proved that vodka is of Russian origin, it was born in the 1453th century, a hundred years earlier than in Poland, and this was due to the decline and death of the Byzantine Empire in 1982. Since XNUMX, the decision of the International Arbitration for the USSR has been assigned the priority of creating vodka as an original Russian alcoholic beverage.

Based on the results of his work, Pokhlebkin wrote a very interesting book “History vodka ”, in which he discovered many interesting facts and terms related to the origin of vodka. He began his research with a description of ancient Russian alcoholic beverages, such as honey (mead), kvass and beer.

Ancient Russian alcoholic drinks


In Russia, an alcoholic drink in the form of grape wine has appeared since the 10th century, and with the adoption of Christianity in the XNUMXth century, it became an obligatory ritual church drink. They brought him from Byzantium. It should be noted that in Russia the most ancient alcoholic drink from the XNUMXth century was honey (mead), for the preparation of which bee honey was used as raw material. Wort was brewed from it and after the process of fermentation and long aging, an alcoholic drink was obtained from it. The mead preparation process was lengthy, up to XNUMX years, and very expensive, a lot of honey was consumed, and the yield of the drink was small. Therefore, mead was consumed only by the highest nobility. Honey making flourished in the XNUMXth-XNUMXth centuries and was associated with a reduction in the import of Greek grape wine due to the invasion of the Golden Horde and the decline and collapse of the Byzantine Empire. Already in the XNUMXth century, honey stocks began to decline significantly, it was mainly sold to Western Europe and the question arose of replacing mead.

Since the XNUMXth century, there have been other drinks for the common population - kvass and beer, for the production of which cheaper raw materials were used: rye, oats and barley and additional vegetable raw materials (hops, wormwood, St. John's wort, cumin). The wort, as for mead, was not boiled, but boiled with boiling water, which led to a lengthy cooking process, but ensured a high and unique quality of the product. Since then, the word "kvass" has given rise to today's "kvass", that is, to be a drunkard.

The technology of distilling production in Russia (honey brewing, leavening and brewing) could not lead to the production of vodka by themselves, the technology for producing alcohol was required, but it was not. In 1386, in Russia, they got acquainted with the grape alcohol imported from Kafa and, probably, in the process of brewing malt for kvass and beer, an accidental distillation of alcohol occurred.

The birth of vodka


At the same time, a similar technology appeared in Russia in a completely different area - tar-smoking, obtaining tar by dry distillation of the resin of pine and birch wood, which assumed the removal of tar and tar through gutters into another tank. These troughs gave rise to the idea of ​​pipes in distillation for the removal of distillation products. So tar-making gave birth to the idea of ​​distilling with pipes and cooling, which could not have been born in mead or beer brewing. The resin was “expelled” from the tree, so moonshine is not brewed today, but “driven”.

So in the XNUMXth century, a technology for the production of a qualitatively new product - bread alcohol - appeared in Russia. This product was called bread wine, boiled wine, burning wine, the name "vodka" appeared much later. Until the XNUMXth century, the term "wine" was mainly used for vodka.

The recipe for vodka preparation included rye wort with the addition of no more than 2-3% wheat, oats, barley or buckwheat grain, yeast, water and aromatic components of various forest herbs (St. John's wort, wormwood, anise, cumin). Hence the most ancient term "to drink bitter" - to drink vodka infused with bitter herbs.

The most important raw material component of vodka was water, it should have a softness of no more than 4 meq / l. The quality of vodka largely depends on its mineral composition. For example, high-quality Stolichnaya vodka could be produced only in Kuibyshev, where natural water, unique in its composition, was used in its preparation.

The origin of the term "vodka"


The origin of the term "vodka" is interesting. In its meaning, this is a derivative of the word "water" and comes from the ancient Russian custom to dilute any alcoholic drink with water, generated by the regulations of the Orthodox Church, to dilute grape wine with water according to the Byzantine tradition. By its origin, vodka is a Russian alcoholic drink obtained by diluting bread alcohol with water.

The word "vodka" in the meaning of "alcoholic beverage" appears in Russian since about the 1533th century, in 1731 in the Novgorod chronicle the word "vodka" was mentioned to mean a medicine, an alcoholic tincture. From the middle of the XNUMXth century, there are written documents where the word "vodka" is used to denote an alcoholic beverage. Since XNUMX, the term "vodka" has begun to be widely used to denote strong pure alcoholic drinks other than grape wines.

By the beginning of the XNUMXth century, the word "vodka" meant exclusively flavored vodkas made according to noble recipes of the XNUMXth century. During the XNUMXth century, the term "bread wine" was replaced by the term "vodka", and since the middle of the XNUMXth century, this term has been gaining its main meaning in its current understanding and spread in Russian.

The production of vodka, due to the extremely cheap raw materials and the high cost of the finished product, exceeding the cost of raw materials tens and hundreds of times, naturally interested the state, and it repeatedly introduced a monopoly and special taxes on the production of vodka. All this led to the soldering of the Russian population, for example, kisselovalniki received an order "not to drive off the cock from the tsar's taverns" and "give the kruzhey collection to the tsar's treasury."

The Zemsky Sobor on taverns in 1652 introduced another wine monopoly, the church was officially deprived of the opportunity to engage in distilling, all drinking matters were transferred to the "zemstvo huts", and private and illegal distilling was punished by whipping, and in case of a relapse into prison.

In the 1786th century, the state abandoned the monopoly on vodka production, giving this right to the nobility. The decree of XNUMX "On the permissible customary distillation of the nobles" completed the process of decentralization of vodka production, which began under Peter I.

At the same time, the slang words "Petrovskaya vodka" and "vodka", pejorative from "water", "sivukha" - vodka of extremely low quality, grayish in color, like a gray horse, "fume" - bad vodka with burnt, "brandokhlyst" - potato vodka of poor quality, distorted from "whip", that is, induce vomiting, "moonshine" - unrefined bread wine, and after 1896 it meant unauthorized, illegally made bread wine.

Vodka fortress


The strength of vodka was determined in a very original way, the concept of "semi-tar" was introduced, simple vodka with a strength of 23-24 ° was set on fire and burned with difficulty. After the end of the burning, no more than half of the composition should have remained in the dishes.

The strength of vodka until the end of the 80th century was not regulated by anything and it was in a wide range. In the 90s-40s of the XIX century, it was customary to call alcoholic beverages vodka, the alcohol content of which ranged from 65 ° to 80 °, and liquids that contained from 96 to 1902 ° alcohol were called alcohols. Since 40, a rule has been established that vodka with an ideal ratio of alcohol and water in its composition can be called genuine vodka, that is, vodka containing exactly XNUMX ° alcohol.

The Russian scientist Mendeleev took an active part in resolving this issue, he insisted on the introduction of the official name "vodka" and was looking for the ideal ratio of the volume and weight of parts of alcohol and water in vodka. It turned out that the physical, biochemical and physiological qualities of these mixtures were significantly different. At that time, various volumes of water and alcohol were mixed, Mendeleev mixed various samples of the weight of water and alcohol. So, a liter of vodka at 40 ° should weigh exactly 953 g. With a weight of 951 g, the strength in a water-alcohol mixture will already be 41 °, and with a weight of 954 g - 39 °. In both of these cases, the physiological effect of such a mixture on the body sharply worsens, and both of them cannot be called Russian vodka.

As a result of Mendeleev's research, Russian vodka began to be considered a product that was bread alcohol diluted by weight with water to exactly 40 °. This composition of vodka was patented in 1894 by the Russian government as the Russian national vodka - "Moscow special".

Ancient vodka measures


The oldest unit of Russian liquid measures was a bucket. This unit of volume has been common since the 12th century. The bucket had a volume of 14 to XNUMX liters, and the main alcoholic drink, mead, was also counted in buckets at that time.

Since 1621, a palace bucket appears, it was also called a drinking measure, or a Moscow bucket. It was the smallest bucket in volume and was equal to 12 liters. Everyone accepted him as a standard.

Since 1531, the bucket began to be divided into smaller parts, into 10 stops (one tenth of a bucket, 1,2 liters) and 100 glasses or glasses (one hundredth of a bucket). So our pile is not a hundred grams, but a hundredth of a bucket is 120 ml. From the old Russian measures of vodka, the “quarter” bottle, which is a quarter of a bucket - 3 liters, was also preserved. Once, while visiting a village, I noticed that the locals call three-liter cans “a quarter”. When I asked why they call banks that, they could not give an intelligible answer, Russian traditions turned out to be very tenacious.

In the 80s of the XIX century, the foot turned into a vodka bottle of 1,2 liters and half a bottle of 0,6 liters, bottles of 0, 5 and 1 liter appeared in the late 20s of the XX century. In the 1,23th century, instead of a foot, they tried to introduce a Western European measure - a damask (0,75 l), but it did not take root. Another Russian trade measure of vodka was a mug - one sixteenth of a bucket (1721 l). According to the decree of 2 of Peter I, the soldier received a compulsory allowance - 15 mugs a day of plain wine (vodka) with a strength of 18-40 °. For large volumes of vodka, a barrel containing 1720 buckets was used, since 5 it was called a forty, and for higher grades of vodka there was a vodka barrel with a volume of XNUMX buckets.

The fight of the state against drunkenness


In the 7th century, the state aspired to introduce a complete monopoly on the production and sale of vodka, but, not having outlets in the form of taverns, it was quite difficult to implement this. Preventing speculation in state vodka, the government set a fixed price for it throughout the empire - XNUMX rubles per bucket. The ransom system led to an unrestrained increase in drunkenness and at the same time to a deterioration in the quality of vodka, and the centuries-old existence of taverns without food exacerbated this situation.

In 1881, a decree was adopted to replace taverns with taverns and taverns, where they sold not only vodka, but also a snack could be obtained for vodka, which led to a lesser manifestation of intoxication.

In addition, until 1885, vodka was sold to take away only in buckets, and bottles existed only for foreign grape wines, which in these bottles came from abroad. The transition to the bottle trade in vodka made it possible to limit the consumption of vodka outside the inn in not so huge quantities as in buckets. In 1902, the state vodka monopoly took effect across the country. Attempts to introduce a "dry law" in 1914-1924 and 1985-1987 were unsuccessful, the old traditions of drinking Russian alcoholic beverages (including vodka) took their toll with all the disadvantages, and these laws did not take root.
Author:
Photos used:
Olga Ryabova
214 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must to register.

I have an account? Sign in

  1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
    Kote Pan Kokhanka 28 September 2020 04: 52
    14
    what )))
    Free retelling from "Myths" by V. Medinsky with elements of inclusions of publicly available information from the works of V. Pokhlebkin.
    Good day everyone, with respect Vlad!
    1. Korsar4
      Korsar4 28 September 2020 06: 00
      16
      Pokhlebkin's works are good. When you love what you write, you get a living word.
      1. WILL
        WILL 28 September 2020 07: 53
        22
        William Vasilyevich Pokhlebkin - A wonderful Russian historian! He has published many excellent works not only on the origin of vodka. His works on Culinary Arts (especially on Russian cuisine), Heraldry, Dramaturgy are generally recognized. Veteran of the Great Patriotic War - volunteered for the front. It’s a pity that no one was punished for his murder!
        Blessed memory of this Wonderful Person hi !
        1. Korsar4
          Korsar4 28 September 2020 08: 26
          +6
          Yes. The closest at the moment is a book about spices.
        2. Astra wild
          Astra wild 28 September 2020 18: 59
          +4
          Colleague St. John's wort, I met information that he was named in honor of Vladimir Ilyich and August Bebel: Vilen-August Pokhlebkin.
          According to his son, he loved to be called Vilen-August.
          Now I looked at Vika: Pokhlebkin is the underground pseudonym of the revolutionary father Mikhailov, and I read that this is his literary pseudonym
    2. hohol95
      hohol95 28 September 2020 10: 36
      +4
      There was a documentary about Pokhlebkin. They remembered about him because of this trial from the NDP (they estimated the amount of financial losses and were horrified) and it turned out that at that time no one needed him. Didn't work and lived on 30 kopecks a day!
      This movie may be on the net. Alas, I won't tell you the name, but it was shown in Russia 24!
  2. Asad
    Asad 28 September 2020 04: 59
    +7
    As vodka began to distill moonshine according to coupons, with a good apparatus you can make decent drinks! I only use grain.
    1. BDRM 667
      BDRM 667 28 September 2020 05: 11
      +1
      When and why vodka appeared in Russia

      Concise, but succinct and informative, well presented material with a soul.

      Respect to the author and Dmitry Ivanovich Mendeleev yes
      1. Undecim
        Undecim 28 September 2020 09: 34
        +7
        Mendeleev has nothing to do with vodka.
        1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
          Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 28 September 2020 10: 17
          +2
          Quote: Undecim
          Mendeleev has nothing to do with vodka.

          even as an ordinary consumer?)
          1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
            Kote Pan Kokhanka 28 September 2020 11: 08
            +4
            In those days, "Suitcase Matera" - no vodka was used !!
            laughing
            1. BDRM 667
              BDRM 667 28 September 2020 14: 46
              +1
              Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
              In those days, "Suitcase Matera" - no vodka was used !!

              By the way, in certain circles, Dmitry Ivnovich, because of his hobby, was known not as the greatest of scientists, but as a "master of the suitcase" ...
              1. kytx
                kytx 29 September 2020 16: 43
                0
                It was a hobby on an industrial scale, he didn't rivet suitcases :)
                And he was already an accomplished food scientist before the discovery of the periodic law.
                In the west, by the way, his table is not often used, preferring periodic series of merits, he is extremely reluctant to recognize.
                1. Bad_gr
                  Bad_gr 29 September 2020 22: 45
                  0
                  Quote: kytx
                  In the west, by the way, his table is not often used, preferring periodic series of merits, he is extremely reluctant to recognize.

                  And they try not to recognize everything that has been done in Russia. And not only inventions, even the islands discovered by our researchers are trying to rename (for example, in the Antarctic region)
                2. BDRM 667
                  BDRM 667 1 October 2020 06: 04
                  +2
                  Quote: kytx
                  It was a hobby on an industrial scale, he didn't rivet suitcases :)

                  So I pointed out that it was his hobby.

                  He loved making suitcases and giving them to friends and acquaintances.
        2. BDRM 667
          BDRM 667 28 September 2020 14: 44
          +1
          Quote: Undecim
          Mendeleev has nothing to do with vodka.

          The article says otherwise ...
          As a result of Mendeleev's research, Russian vodka began to be considered a product that was bread alcohol diluted by weight with water to exactly 40 °. This composition of vodka was patented in 1894 by the Russian government as the Russian national vodka - "Moscow special".

          Did you actually read it before commenting?
          1. Undecim
            Undecim 28 September 2020 14: 57
            +9
            Did you actually read it before commenting?
            Read. Ignorant copy-paste.
            I repeat. Mendeleev did not deal with vodka. These are Pokhlebkin's fantasies, heavily replicated by ignoramuses on the Internet.
            In his doctoral dissertation "On the combination of alcohol with water", which Mendeleev defended in 1865, the scientist investigated the specific gravity of alcohol-water solutions depending on the concentration of the latter and temperature and established at what concentration the maximum mutual dissolution of water and alcohol in each other occurs.
            In the fourth chapter of his thesis, devoted to the definition of "the greatest compression that occurs during the mutual dissolution of anhydrous alcohol and water," Mendeleev considered solutions with an alcohol concentration of 55% to 40%. He found that a solution with an alcohol concentration of about 46% (by weight) corresponds to the greatest compression. This is the only place in Mendeleev's dissertation, which deals with the determination of the specific gravity of alcohol-water solutions in the concentration range as close as possible to the "ideal" one. No 40% (by weight) is mentioned anywhere.
            Mendeleev was not interested in vodka at all.
            1. BDRM 667
              BDRM 667 28 September 2020 15: 04
              +3
              Quote: Undecim
              Mendeleev was not interested in vodka at all.

              Of course lol

              Dmitry Mendeleev defended his famous doctoral dissertation "On the combination of alcohol with water" on January 31, 1865. In the IV and V chapters of the dissertation, named, respectively, "On the greatest compression occurring during the mutual dissolution of anhydrous alcohol and water" and "On the change in specific gravity when alcohol is combined with water", it is said about the results of the study of water-alcohol solutions, including with a concentration of 33,4% or 40%.

              Neither the physiological nor the biochemical effect of the studied systems on the living organism is reported in the work.

              But Mendeleev was a member of a special "Technical Committee" that controlled the quality of the drink and proposed to approve the name "vodka" officially.
              1. Undecim
                Undecim 28 September 2020 16: 45
                +6
                But Mendeleev was a member of a special "Technical Committee" that controlled the quality of the drink and proposed to approve the name "vodka" officially.
                Another fable.
                Mendeleev was not a member of the Technical Committee for the production of "hygienically pure" wine and did not give such proposals.
                Mendeleev was a member of the technical department of the Committee for the revision of the Regulations on the drinking fee, established in 1863 under the Ministry of Finance, as an expert on chemical technologies
                The Tralles' 40% alcohol meter standard was established at the suggestion of the Treasury Secretary Reitern in 1868.
                1. Astra wild
                  Astra wild 28 September 2020 19: 11
                  0
                  Viktor Nikolaevich, you have offended pseudo-patriots, how is it possible that a German, and even the Minister of Finance, set 40 degrees
                  1. Undecim
                    Undecim 28 September 2020 19: 30
                    +1
                    There is a disaster for the leavened patriots. The minister's mother's maiden name was Gelfreich.
                    1. Phil77
                      Phil77 28 September 2020 19: 58
                      +2
                      Quote: Undecim
                      Gelfreich.

                      A normal Russian surname. sad
                      1. Kapany3
                        Kapany3 29 September 2020 08: 38
                        0
                        Exactly - Russians from the Volga region
                2. Bad_gr
                  Bad_gr 29 September 2020 00: 06
                  -1
                  Quote: Undecim
                  The Tralles' 40% alcohol meter standard was established at the suggestion of the Treasury Secretary Reitern in 1868.

                  I met the version that, according to Mendeleev, the ideal combination of alcohol and water is 38 degrees, but it was rounded up to 40, so that it would be easier to calculate taxes, which depended on the strength of the drink.
                  I am not claiming that this is the ultimate truth - I am writing about what I read.
                  1. Undecim
                    Undecim 29 September 2020 00: 11
                    +2
                    This version is from the same area of ​​fables regarding the magic combination of 38 or 40% and Mendeleev's involvement in it. In order not to collect information from different sources, read the book by Boris Rodionov "The History of Russian Strong Drinks".
                    1. Oleg
                      Oleg 29 September 2020 20: 06
                      +1
                      Or his book "Polugar. Vodka We Lost"
            2. astepanov
              astepanov 28 September 2020 19: 24
              +3
              Quote: Undecim
              established at what concentration the maximum mutual dissolution of water and alcohol in each other occurs.
              This is mistake. Alcohol and water mix with each other indefinitely in the entire range of compositions and there can be no talk of any "maximum mutual dissolution". However, in his doctoral dissertation D.I. there is really not a word about this: I specifically found and read it. But here's what is interesting: was D.I. to the approval of the standard for vodka, when he was in charge of the chamber of measures and weights? I'm not sure, but it seems that this department, in addition to metrology, was also engaged in standardization. Of course, the approval of the standard is one thing, but the retelling of wild legends that the author has is quite another.
              And here's another interesting thing: in 1912, prohibition was introduced, and after 5 years the Russian Empire collapsed. Gorbachev began cutting down vineyards and fighting drunkenness - and the USSR collapsed five years later. Prohibition, which was in force in the United States from 1920 to 1933, coincided with a shift in the same 5-6 years with the Great Depression. Finally, the termination of the supply of wine from Byzantium ended for Russia with the Tatar-Mongol invasion. So many coincidences cannot be coincidence. We will not allow it! Vodka is our everything, it stood and will stand on that!
          2. kytx
            kytx 29 September 2020 16: 35
            +2
            Mendeleev wrote the work "Aqueous solutions of alcohols" that vodka 40g is an industrial issue and not a gustatory issue or something else.
            but the people stubbornly drown for the fact that Mendeleev invented vodka :)
          3. vlad106
            vlad106 1 October 2020 14: 17
            0
            Quote: BDRM 667
            Quote: Undecim
            Mendeleev has nothing to do with vodka.

            The article says otherwise ...
            As a result of Mendeleev's research, Russian vodka began to be considered a product that was bread alcohol diluted by weight with water to exactly 40 °. This composition of vodka was patented in 1894 by the Russian government as the Russian national vodka - "Moscow special".

            Did you actually read it before commenting?

            Someone had a hand in soldering the Russian people with strong alcohol, but this is probably not Mendel-Mendeleev.
        3. The Siberian barber
          The Siberian barber 28 September 2020 21: 35
          -1
          Quote: Undecim
          Mendeleev has nothing to do with vodka.

          You touched upon the sacred))
          Many people believe that it was he who "invented the recipe")) although, to give credit, he "streamlined" a little, knowing a lot ...)
      2. Malyuta
        Malyuta 28 September 2020 09: 38
        11
        Quote: BDRM 667
        When and why vodka appeared in Russia

        Vodka in Russia was supposed to appear due to severe climatic conditions and I am more than sure that such a drink in different variations existed much earlier than historians think. yes drinks
        1. Trilobite Master
          Trilobite Master 28 September 2020 11: 12
          11
          Quote: Malyuta
          such a drink in various variations existed much earlier than historians think.

          Hardly. Vodka is a product that requires certain knowledge and, most importantly, technologies, which, in fact, appeared in the XNUMXth century.
          Quote: Malyuta
          due to severe climatic conditions

          It's kind of cold, but vodka warms you up? smile A common cliché, nothing more.
          Alcohol is a poison and, like any poison, has a negative effect on a person, weakens him. A small dose of alcohol can provoke short-term activity, for example, of the liver, which is why the illusion of warmth is created, but after a very short period of time this effect disappears and only weakness remains. Re-drinking alcohol will only increase this weakness. You will definitely not be able to get warm with vodka. But the number of drunk people who have frozen to death is at least twice as high as that of sober people.
          1. garri-lin
            garri-lin 28 September 2020 19: 54
            0
            Regarding distillation technologies and the 15th century, can you give more details? The alembic for making a distillation has been known since the third century AD. If we understand vodka as a diluted rechtificate, then later. If as a distillation product with a high strength, then technologies of the third century.
            1. Trilobite Master
              Trilobite Master 28 September 2020 21: 55
              +1
              The alembic was known for a long time, long before the XNUMXth century, it is true. The question is different - was it possible at that time and with those technologies to create a cube capable of distilling such a volatile liquid as alcohol, and even on a scale sufficient for making drinks in any significant quantities ... I think that it is unlikely , since we seem to have no information about such achievements, despite the fact that the very process of distillation was described by ancestors a long time ago.
              1. garri-lin
                garri-lin 28 September 2020 22: 11
                0
                Have you seen how they drive in the mountain villages of the Caucasus? Boiler, top with a cone made of aluminum or copper sheet. Seams are sealed with dough. The usual test. And a pipe for cooling. Everything is very primitive and reliable.
                1. vlad106
                  vlad106 1 October 2020 14: 25
                  0
                  Quote: garri-lin
                  Have you seen how they drive in the mountain villages of the Caucasus? Boiler, top with a cone made of aluminum or copper sheet. Seams are sealed with dough. The usual test. And a pipe for cooling. Everything is very primitive and reliable.


                  Who drives alcohol in the mountain villages in the Caucasus?
                  Highlanders do not drive alcohol, well, except for Ossetians
                  I do not take into account Georgians, Armenians. These are Transcaucasians from Asia.
                  1. garri-lin
                    garri-lin 1 October 2020 14: 46
                    0
                    Abkhazians are being driven. Georgians live on the slopes of the Caucasus mountains. They are also being driven.
          2. kytx
            kytx 30 September 2020 06: 05
            0
            Vodka really warms. Alcohol is quickly absorbed in the body and decomposes, releasing a lot of energy, frozen drunk to death is from another opera. The fact that you cannot drink "for sugrevu" is the same medical myth as the fact that alcohol supposedly neutralizes antibiotics, a myth for the good, so to speak.
    2. hohol95
      hohol95 28 September 2020 10: 41
      +3
      They drove even before the introduction of alcohol coupons!
      Soviet cartoon 1962 - Green Serpent !!!
      And then they didn't even think about alcohol coupons ...
      1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
        Kote Pan Kokhanka 28 September 2020 11: 11
        +6
        Hello honest company, but what about "Moonshiners" !!!
    3. AIR
      AIR 28 September 2020 12: 57
      +1
      Why don't you make fruit bragas?
    4. Okolotochny
      Okolotochny 28 September 2020 15: 23
      +2
      Plum, grapes, quince - I recommend !!!
      1. 9 Shaft
        9 Shaft 28 September 2020 21: 11
        +1
        Peach, apricot!))))
    5. Ingvar 72
      Ingvar 72 28 September 2020 19: 41
      0
      Quote: ASAD
      I only use grain.

      And I also have fruits and berries. Now is the season for apples and grapes. I drive for future use.
      I prefer barley or corn from grain. I tried it several times from wheat, it comes out harder than from barley.
      1. 9 Shaft
        9 Shaft 28 September 2020 21: 14
        0
        Barley and corn have the highest yield. And did not add oak pegs, boiled three times and slightly fired?
        1. Ingvar 72
          Ingvar 72 28 September 2020 21: 24
          0
          From corn, yes, from barley less. I stand it on oak, only cook it once. Before that, I soak for two days, changing the water after 5-6 hours. A month later, it turns out almost Irish whiskey.
          1. Bad_gr
            Bad_gr 29 September 2020 00: 12
            0
            I met the opinion that the state of mind of a drunk person depends on the product from which the moonshine is chased. For example, if the original product was wheat, then it is tempting to philosophize. If potatoes - then give someone in the face ...
            1. Oleg
              Oleg 29 September 2020 20: 09
              0
              Duc cho there is an opinion ... It's zhist!
      2. 9 Shaft
        9 Shaft 28 September 2020 21: 17
        -1
        From grape vodka, the syndrome in the morning is minimal if you go over it. In the Union was, in my opinion, "Ambassadorial", if I'm not mistaken)))
    6. 9 Shaft
      9 Shaft 28 September 2020 21: 06
      -1
      Copper and double distillation apparatus?
      1. Ingvar 72
        Ingvar 72 28 September 2020 21: 32
        -2
        Quote: 9 Shaft
        Copper and double distillation apparatus?

        Question to me?
        The first distillation on an antediluvian distiller, the second on a copper distillation column of our own production. Control of selection by mass fraction of alcohol and temperature, there are two thermometers on the column. I get pure alcohol, 96 gr. If organoleptic properties are needed, I remove the filler and copper springs from the column.
        I dilute the alcohol with filtered water to 45 gr. hi
  3. Cowbra
    Cowbra 28 September 2020 05: 01
    +6
    During the XNUMXth century, the term "bread wine" was replaced by the term "vodka"
    Bread wine was not diluted with water, unlike vodka, exactly. Well, there is still a lot of things that can be remembered - for example, "half-burn, under-burn, over-burn" ... I set fire to a glass - half burned out - that's half-burn ... Over-burn - more than half, too strong, alcohol more than water ... kvass should ferment not on brewer's yeast, but on grape yeast. And kvass cannot be non-alcoholic - it is ink, a solution of malt and sugar in water, only it is not kvass.
    Well, for Peter the Great, the author - would you at least ask where such a gesture came from - a click on the throat? Under Petyun, just
    1. EvilLion
      EvilLion 28 September 2020 11: 04
      +3
      Kvass in Russia had a strength of up to 8%, and it was exactly what they got drunk with. Just after the appearance of vodka, kvass lost its value as an intoxicating drink, since stronger vodka is needed corny less, according to international standards, kvass is a type of beer, and according to food industry standards, its strength should not exceed 1.6%. Otherwise, it simply will not be possible to sell it like kvass, and no matter what kind of rubbish, even bitter from alcohol, they can do it at home. According to the standard, this is not kvass.
      1. Cowbra
        Cowbra 28 September 2020 11: 30
        +1
        Well and not only. The fact is that, for example, the water is raw ... It may not be useful. For example, kvass is a sour drink. So? And for example, such a thing as Vibrio cholerae - does not tolerate acid ... Disinfection is obtained. Well, for example, cholera vibrio is the normal flora of the lower reaches of the Volga, or the Dnieper ... Or such a river as Aydar or Kalmius ...
  4. Grif
    Grif 28 September 2020 05: 25
    +4
    I was surprised to learn that the bosom friend comes from "pour over the Adam's apple."
    1. Kerensky
      Kerensky 29 September 2020 00: 32
      0
      I was surprised to learn that the bosom friend comes from "pour over the Adam's apple."

      According to ancient beliefs, the soul was placed behind the Adam's apple. Women don't have it.
  5. Far B
    Far B 28 September 2020 06: 22
    +8
    Wort was brewed from it and after the process of fermentation and long aging, an alcoholic drink was obtained from it. The process of making mead was lengthy, up to 10 years, and very expensive, there was a lot of honey, and the yield of the drink was small.
    Complete nonsense. The mead is aged for 40 days, give or take. What is described is intoxicated honeys, they should not be confused at all, this is a completely different song.
    The authors do not mention mash at all.
    In general, a very strange article.
    1. mat-vey
      mat-vey 28 September 2020 07: 00
      +7
      Quote: Far In
      Wort was brewed from it and after the process of fermentation and long aging, an alcoholic drink was obtained from it. The process of making mead was lengthy, up to 10 years, and very expensive, there was a lot of honey, and the yield of the drink was small.
      Complete nonsense. The mead is aged for 40 days, give or take. What is described is intoxicated honeys, they should not be confused at all, this is a completely different song.
      The authors do not mention mash at all.
      In general, a very strange article.

      The same smiled. I still remember how my grandfather cooked mead ... and in such volumes - all the regional authorities ordered, and not only for themselves, but also for the winners above ... 140-160 flasks for the summer. and they installed the boiler and made the omshannik ...
  6. Olgovich
    Olgovich 28 September 2020 07: 05
    -6
    creation of vodka as an original Russian alcoholic beverage.

    Doubtful "achievement", alas ...
    Attempts to introduce "dry law" in 1914-1924 and 1985-1987 were unsuccessful

    In the first case, it was very successful: they drank a little and there were also few drunkards.

    But the would-be VOR leaders, to find the money, had enough brains only to pump money out of the people they were drinking through the authorized vodka.

    Secretary General of VKPBE:
    “This question stood at our discussion of the Central Committee of our party in October 1924 Some members of the Central Committee objected to the introduction of vodka, without indicating, however, any sources from which one could obtain funds for industry..

    There are people who think that you can build socialism with white gloves. This is a gross mistake, comrades. If we do not have loans, if we are poor in capital, and if, in addition, we cannot go into bondage to Western European capitalists, Here you have to choose between bondage and vodkaand people who think that you can build socialism with white gloves are cruelly mistaken. "

    So they chose to drink for ... the "good" of this people. Enchanting. You.

    Meanwhile, according to research DMN Uglova F.G... from the introduction of Prohibition until 1924 it was:
    the period of time of our state was the most sober in its entire history, including the early period (IX-XV centuries), when there were no vodka and tsar's taverns in Russia.


    But the result of "development" such "life-giving sources" of funds has become disaster:

    DMN Uglov, F.G. Report at the All-Union Conference on Combating Alcoholism, Dzerzhinsk, 1981 Mr."MEDICAL AND SOCIAL CONSEQUENCES OF ALCOHOL USE"
    the general availability of alcohol took us catastrophic size

    If in 1925 among various categories of workers there were 43% of teetotal men, then they are currently 1-2%, habitual drunkards and alcoholics in 1925 it was 9,6%, in 1973 there were already 30% (Discussion "Economics of Socialism", Novosibirsk, 1973).

    if from 1940 to 1980 the population of our country increased by 35%, then consumption alcoholic "drinks" increased by 770%That is, more than 20 times. Thus, the growth of per capita consumption of alcoholic "drinks" in our country over the past forty years 20 times the growth of the country's population.

    Even more tragic is the situation with women alcoholics, if in the pre-war years their number relative to the number of male alcoholics was hundredths of a percent, now female alcoholism has increased 1000 times.

    the youth. In 1925 g. drinkers under 18 were 16,6%, in our time - up to 95% Bonus terms and conditions apply (The Young Communist, 1975, No. 9, pp. 102-103)

    Creepy, denouncing the "craftsmen" of VKPBists, figures atannihilation them of their own people.

    On this in the "damned" west:
    CSB data show that per capita consumption of alcoholic "drinks" in terms of absolute alcohol is growing faster in our country than in capitalist countries. So, over 17 years (1950-1966), alcohol consumption increased in Belgium by 10%, in the USA by 16%, in USSR by 185%.


    So Prohibition attempt in 1985 - failed - too many drinkers

    .
    Although she saved many families and lives, more children were born ..
    1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
      Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 28 September 2020 08: 22
      -3
      Olgych, do not step on the throat of the song of the Pokhlebkinites - they are here singing the authenticity of the Vodyara, and you tell them about cerroses and excise taxes ... laughing Now there will be recipes for moonshine and drool about "crunching Borodino bread with Astrakhan herring and a cucumber under a glass".
      1. ee2100
        ee2100 28 September 2020 08: 48
        -1
        After Shpakovsky's articles, they shared recipes for salads, and today there really will probably be recipes for moonshine, settings, etc.
        At least something masculine!
        1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
          Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 28 September 2020 09: 04
          0
          Quote: ee2100
          At least something masculine!

          Yes Yes...
          1. Astra wild
            Astra wild 28 September 2020 20: 30
            +2
            The "Experienced" mug is impressive
    2. pmkemcity
      pmkemcity 28 September 2020 09: 29
      +5
      Quote: Olgovich
      the youth. In 1925 there were 18% of those drinking under 16,6 years old, in our time - up to 95% ("Young Communist", 1975, No. 9, pp. 102-103)

      Until the age of 23, I did not drink at all, and among my circle there were 100% of them. Maybe it was different among the "Young Communists"?
    3. BAI
      BAI 28 September 2020 09: 32
      11
      So, over 17 years (1950-1966), alcohol consumption increased in Belgium by 10%, in the USA by 16%, in the USSR by 185%.

      Data about nothing. More precisely, for manipulation. It is necessary to watch the consumption of alcohol per capita. If the consumption was 0, then 100 g will give 300% growth, and if it was 20 liters, then adding a whole liter will give only 5%. 1950 - 5 years after the war, naturally, there was little alcohol, and even the loss of the adult male population. 1960 - and alcohol production improved, and new consumers grew up. Hence the explosive growth - because we started from scratch. In 1950 - 1,5 liters per capita, in 1960 - 3,5 liters. With democracy in 2002 - 18 liters (the maximum consumption in the entire history of Russia), now in Russia - 11,2 (in Moldova - 11,4). In Belgium, in 1950, per capita alcohol consumption was 6,1 liters, and in 1960 - 6,6 liters - almost 2 times more than in the "drinking" USSR.
      (Lisitsyn Yu.P., Kopyt N.Ya. Alcoholism - M: Medicine, 1983).
      1. Olgovich
        Olgovich 28 September 2020 10: 35
        -12 qualifying.
        Quote: BAI
        Data about nothing. More precisely, for manipulation. It is necessary to watch the consumption of alcohol per capita.

        Don't you understand Russian at all?

        AGAIN:
        if from 1940 to 1980 the population of our country increased on 35%then consumption of alcoholic "drinks" increased nand 770%, that is, more than 20 times. In this way, growth of per capita consumption of alcoholic "drinks" over the past forty years we have 20 times exceeds the growth of the country's population.

        What's not clear?
        Quote: BAI
        Hence the explosive growth - because we started from scratch.

        What .. zero -2,8 l pure alcohol before 1940? fool
        The main thing, if it didn't come, it was ENOUGH for people!

        , and some vkpbshy "clever men" in pursuit of funds, yes, EXPLODED consumption, increasing alcohol production by SEVEN HUNDRED percent with a population growth of THIRTY! They went crazy!

        Hack the facts on your forehead:
        - female alcoholism ages 1000 times.

        -the youth. In 1925, there were 18% of those drinking under 16,6 years of age, in our time - up to 95%

        - in 1925, 43% of the various categories of workers were teetotal men, now they are

        Teetotalers were up to you -43%, with yours left-1 (one!)%-that is yes, with the "explosive method" -to a disaster-teetotalers 25-50 times less fool .

        But HOW did you do it: t
        countries such as the USA and England, the cost of a bottle of whiskey is 5-10 times higherthan ours, compared to the cost of basic necessities

        And this:
        Shops with alcoholic "drinks" with us open at every turn, including in those houses where there are school and preschool institutions. In Leningrad, in the Petrogradsky district, they calculated in one place that There were 14 residential buildings and 15 drinking establishments.


        Eventually:
        instead 180 million liters moonshine in 1923 the population drinks, according to rough data of experts, annually vodka and moonshine (not counting wine and beer) about 3,5 billion liters, those. twenty (!) times more all production of moonshiners in 1923 (participants in the discussion "Economics of alcoholism", Novosibirsk, 1973).


        if in 1956 the proceeds from the sale of alcoholic "drinks" are taken as 100%, then in 1970 it was already 157%, and in 1975 - 214%, in 1976 - 325%, etc.

        They found a “source of funds, here are the“ clever people. ”Yes, they are crazy!

        Angles:
        the growth rates for the last 10 years (1981) are 2,5 times higher than in 1940-1965. 1970 to 1979 the population increased by 8%, production of flour and bakery products - by 17%, and alcoholic "Drinks" by 300%,

        Over the past 5 years, we have acquired over 4 billion rubles from alcohol and tobacco products abroad. It's in 4 times the value of our grain purchases in 1979 г


        The killers.

        There are no words ....
        1. Deniska999
          Deniska999 28 September 2020 10: 42
          +3
          Yes, they would not drink, what's the problem.
          1. Olgovich
            Olgovich 28 September 2020 11: 01
            -10 qualifying.
            Quote: Deniska999
            Yes, they would not drink, what's the problem.

            Yes, do not inject (drug addicts) - what's the problem, right?

            what ITEOTS, in your opinion, are ALL governments and countries that spend BILLIONS of dollars on the fight against drug production and BILLIONS on the treatment of millions of patients ..

            Maybe open a marijuana outlet in your home? After all, in your opinion, nothing terrible will happen ...

            But the points of sale of DRUG-alcohol were opened even in in those houses where schools and kindergartens are located.
            1. Deniska999
              Deniska999 28 September 2020 12: 43
              +4
              Why, such a people was seduced, but they could have already installed a tricolor over Istanbul-London-Paris.
              1. Olgovich
                Olgovich 28 September 2020 13: 06
                -11 qualifying.
                Quote: Deniska999
                Why, such a people was seduced, but they could have already installed a tricolor over Istanbul-London-Paris.

                No, they could its to populate and equip the country more densely, and does not take the first place in the world - in alcoholics, divorce, abortion, suicide, tobacco and depopulation. population.

                Something with such and such a baggage, "arrangement" .....
    4. garri-lin
      garri-lin 28 September 2020 09: 43
      +5
      One of the ways to combat alcoholism is to improve the quality of the product and increase the culture of drinking. The ban on drinking cheap vodka never worked. And private traders who, against the background of the ban, traded illegal alcohol, often became the basis of criminal structures. For there are connections and there is money.
      1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
        Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 28 September 2020 09: 55
        +1
        Quote: garri-lin
        and increasing the culture of drinking.

        Do you know the method?
        1. ee2100
          ee2100 28 September 2020 10: 13
          +6
          Abstinence is dangerous! The French teacher I know, Ernestina Iosifovna Paunkare, never drank wine in her life. And what! At one party she was treated to a glass of cognac. She liked it so much that she drank a whole bottle and immediately, at dinner, went crazy. And there is less than one French teacher in the world. The same can happen to you. 
          1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
            Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 28 September 2020 10: 36
            0
            Quote: ee2100
            Abstinence is dangerous! The French teacher I know, Ernestina Iosifovna Paunkare, never drank wine in her life. And what!

            )))
            1. ee2100
              ee2100 28 September 2020 10: 45
              +4
              Immortal classic!
              1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
                Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 28 September 2020 10: 48
                0
                Quote: ee2100
                Immortal classic!

                Yes sir)
          2. Okolotochny
            Okolotochny 28 September 2020 15: 48
            +2
            Colleague, laughed heartily)))
        2. garri-lin
          garri-lin 28 September 2020 15: 43
          -1
          There are also good methods. There are whole cultures that consume a lot of alcohol but almost no alcoholics.
          1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
            Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 28 September 2020 15: 47
            +1
            Well, how do you intend to adapt and introduce the experience of these "whole cultures"?
            Practically pure.
            1. garri-lin
              garri-lin 28 September 2020 16: 16
              +1
              Purely practical? It's a difficult question. How to improve culture in the current situation in the country. Can teach children. Politeness, organization, self-discipline, respect. Etc. And then from adolescence to inculcate certain rituals, traditions of consumption. For example, do not drink alone. Wildly, without company, I can drink either a bottle of beer or in the cold no more than a glass of something homemade, with food. Do not drink out of grief. Do not drink in public. Do not drink for the sake of drinking, but drink a little in the process of communication. Do not drink a poor quality product. Don't drink without a decent snack.
              1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
                Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 28 September 2020 16: 35
                +2
                Quote: garri-lin
                Can teach children. Politeness, organization, self-discipline, respect. Etc.

                clear. Utopia.
                1. garri-lin
                  garri-lin 28 September 2020 16: 39
                  -1
                  Why in the Caucasus, a generation ago it worked. Not at full strength, but it worked.
                  1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
                    Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 28 September 2020 16: 50
                    +3
                    Quote: garri-lin
                    in the Caucasus, a generation ago it worked.

                    yes, that's why the chairman of the public movement Sober Russia is either a Dagestani or a Chechen by the name of Khamzaev. As it should be - carries aggressive nonsense in shitty Russian, boor and brawler. This one will educate the Russian woman, yes.
                    1. garri-lin
                      garri-lin 28 September 2020 17: 42
                      +2
                      Without understanding what the teetotalers are talking about. In general, I attribute the guardians of a sober lifestyle to the same category as sectarians, Asexuals, vegans, dust-eaters and other perverters of the normal human life. Raising the culture of man is the only way not to degenerate into decadencedegatants.
                      1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
                        Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 28 September 2020 17: 47
                        +1
                        Quote: garri-lin
                        as sectarians, Asexuals, vegans, dust-eaters and other perverters of normal human life.


                        I don’t know, maybe the quote is out of place, but it’s very good. The classics knew how to speak and write, not to take away ...

                        And if all sorts of elements penetrate into the workers' party in all countries, who have nothing to expect from the official world or whose song has already been sung in it - opponents of smallpox vaccination, advocates of sobriety, vegetarians, anti-vivisectionists, naturalist doctors, preachers of free communities, authors who have lost their communities new theories about the origin of the world, fruitless or unlucky inventors, victims of real or imaginary injustices, nicknamed by bureaucrats “worthless litigants,” honest fools and dishonest deceivers — the same was the case with the early Christians. All those elements that were liberated, that is, thrown overboard, by the process of decomposition of the old world, one after another fell into the sphere of attraction of Christianity, as the only element that resisted this process of decomposition - for Christianity itself was its own inevitable product - and which therefore remained and grew, while the other elements were only one-day moths. There was no such kind of fanaticism, stupidity or fraud that would not penetrate the young Christian communities, would not find, at least in some places and for some time, benevolent listeners and zealous champions


                        Friedrich Engels.
                      2. garri-lin
                        garri-lin 28 September 2020 17: 51
                        0
                        The classics were good at writing and speaking for a simple reason. This was the meaning of their life. They devoted themselves entirely to adding words into lines. That is why they became classics.
                      3. Ingvar 72
                        Ingvar 72 28 September 2020 19: 53
                        +1
                        Quote: Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
                        Friedrich Engels.

                        I prefer Omar Khayyam more. repeat
                      4. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
                        Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 28 September 2020 20: 40
                        0
                        Quote: Ingvar 72
                        I prefer Omar Khayyam

                        ))
  • Foul skeptic
    Foul skeptic 28 September 2020 10: 07
    +3
    Andrei, hello!
    You see, what is the matter, Fyodor Grigorievich was an outstanding surgeon, but at the same time a very peculiar personality. And his fad about the society of general sobriety could not affect the content of his speeches. How do you like the government's petition to ban fermented milk products, as it contains alcohol? At the same time, I do not touch on his other "themes" about Jews, Freemasons, "rock as a drug", etc. so, if you start to analyze his article, you will see that in most cases this is a game of numbers in order to catch up more fear.
    By the way, to understand whether it is necessary to take on faith data from radicals of any kind (even anti-alcohol, at least some), I can report that his successor at the International Academy of Sobriety Zhdanov for the Russian Federation gave the following per capita consumption figures: in 2000, 18,5 liters per person per year, in 2008 already 25 liters per person per year. He voiced this in an interview with your favorite Demoscope in 2008. So decide whether to take on faith or not.
    1. Olgovich
      Olgovich 28 September 2020 11: 10
      -8
      Quote: Nefarious skeptic
      Andrei, hello!
      You see, what is the matter, Fyodor Grigorievich was an outstanding surgeon, but at the same time a very peculiar personality.

      Hello Timur!
      Quote: Nefarious skeptic
      so, if you start to analyze his article, you will see that for the most part this is a game of numbers,

      I looked. Didn't see.

      WHICH of this:
      -Women's alcoholism has increased 1000 times.

      -the youth. In 1925, 18% of those drinking under 16,6 years old, in our time - up to 95%.

      -in 1925, 43% of the various categories of workers were teetotal men, now they make up 1-2%

      Can you refute?
      1. Beringovsky
        Beringovsky 29 September 2020 01: 49
        -1
        Quote: Olgovich

        WHICH of this:
        -Women's alcoholism has increased 1000 times.

        -the youth. In 1925, 18% of those drinking under 16,6 years old, in our time - up to 95%.

        -in 1925, 43% of the various categories of workers were teetotal men, now they make up 1-2%

        Can you refute?

        But is such nonsense necessary to refute? Or do you think that we have completely lost our memory to accept this - "youth. In 1925, 18% of those under 16,6 were drinking, in our time - up to 95%." - seriously? Or do I not remember myself, my friends, classmates, etc.?
        Honestly, Andrey, I have strong doubts, did you just live in the USSR? You sometimes write such nonsense, even if you endure all the saints.
        1. Olgovich
          Olgovich 29 September 2020 09: 27
          +3
          Quote: Beringovsky
          Is such nonsense necessary to refute? Or do you think that our memory is completely lost to accept this - "young people. In 1925 there were 18% of drinkers under the age of 16,6, in our time - up to 95%." - seriously? Or do I not remember myself, my friends, classmates, etc.?


          It was written by the SOVIET magazine "Young Communist", 1975 g., no. 9, p. 102-103.

          And I meant not drinkers to shit, but DRINKERS. Those. in 1925 there were 84% of those who did not drink at all - WHEN will it come ?!

          And you and your classmates are already 100% by the age of 18. knew alcohol.
          Quote: Beringovsky
          Honestly, Andrey, I have strong doubts, did you just live in the USSR? You sometimes write such nonsense, even if you endure all the saints.

          You refute the FACTS, and they are given above: in the pursuit of means, the wretched-minded "leaders" did not find anything better than to give drink to their people.

          Result: first place in the world for alcoholics, divorce, suicide, depopulation, tobacco smoking. And la-find out how much the number of tebils has grown in parallel with the increase in alcohol consumption.

          PS tired of your empty chatter-hysterics: there is nothing to say, except for her, do not fool your head.
      2. Foul skeptic
        Foul skeptic 29 September 2020 10: 14
        0
        WHICH of this:
        -Women's alcoholism has increased 1000 times.

        -the youth. In 1925, 18% of those drinking under 16,6 years old, in our time - up to 95%.

        -in 1925, 43% of the various categories of workers were teetotal men, now they make up 1-2%

        Can you refute?

        And this should be done? A feature of research on drug addiction is that it interviews certain extremely small groups. Therefore, choosing the right numbers is easier than a steamed turnip. This is exactly what Uglov did (and I do not blame him, sort of like "manipulation for the good"). It's very simple to show this:
        1) First, here's this phrase:
        -in 1925, 43% of the various categories of workers were teetotal men, now they make up 1-2%

        in the Report at the All-Union Conference on Combating Alcoholism in Dzerzhinsk in 1981 it reads as follows:
        If in 1925 there were 43% of the various categories of workers who were teetotallers, now they are, APPARENTLY, 1-2%

        As if, after these words, the explanation of the "validity" of the information provided by Uglovy can be completed. But I will simply, in support of the words about the variability of the figures of different studies, show how the figure of 43% can be easily changed:
        - I. I. Rosenblum in 1928 at the Machine-Building Plant. VI Lenin in Leningrad interviewed workers. Drinkers - 90%, of them drinking very rarely (once every 1-2 months up to "weaving") - 3%; those who drink 22,5-2 times a week no more than "hundred parts" or once a week up to a half-bottle of vodka - 3%; drinking no more than 1 time a week to a bottle of vodka or 71,4-1 times a week to half a bottle, or daily drinking up to "hundreds" - 2%, obvious alcoholics, drinking from one to two bottles daily - 3%.
        - I. A. Berger in the same year, examining the workers of the plant "Proletarian Labor", to chronic alcoholics
        classifies those who consume alcoholic beverages on average 3-4 times a week to moderate drinkers -
        2-3 times a month, occasionally 3-4 times a year. According to him, among the surveyed workers there were 31,2% of chronic alcoholics and 42,9% of moderate drinkers.
        I can't remember a study (while I came across information for you), where in the 80s at some Leningrad plant there were 6% who did not drink at all (those same teetotalers). That is, by choosing convenient studies, you can choose convenient numbers. Here we have 90% in one case, 94% in the other, a difference of 4%. Agree, the dynamics are not so terrifying as in the case of 43% and 99%. Therefore, it is natural that the second group of numbers was chosen at a conference on total sobriety.
        And in a similar way, he does everywhere - he does not give figures from different sources (specific studies with links to them), but chooses only one beautiful figure from many that are not identical in terms of verification.
        2)
        -the youth. In 1925, 18% of those drinking under 16,6 years old, in our time - up to 95%.

        Here, initially, manipulation is already with the original message - the word "drinkers". In the narcology of that period, "drinkers" meant the use of 1 ml 2-150 times a week in terms of pure alcohol. The mentioned figures for 80, if we turn to a specific study, it is "occasionally trying alcohol in their life." It was carried out by Zaigraev twice - in 1965 and 1980 (if I am not mistaken, in several schools of the Kolomna district).
        1965: girls 49%, boys 68%
        1980: girls 70%, boys 90%
        This is how Usov turned 90% of boys into youth up to 95% (although if you average both sexes, you get 80%).
        Moreover, the situation with 16,6% is incomprehensible at all (I personally could not find where he got it). But the big picture can be understood from what I found. For instance
        - A. M. Korovin in 1909 showed during a survey of 22 617 schoolchildren in 358 rural schools in the Moscow province that 67,5% of boys and 46,2% of girls drank alcohol. Among boys, 0,7% were alcoholics frequently or daily, and 0,4% among girls. Their parents saw drunkenness and smoking as a prank.
        - In the 1911/1912 academic year in the Smolensk province, he examined 1014 students aged 7 ... 15 years: 896 boys and 218 girls. Among boys, there were 96,2% who consumed alcohol, and 95,4% among girls. 30% of boys and 8,2% of girls were drunk to the point of drunkenness.
        - Deichman in 1926/27 examined 280 children of the junior group of the 5th school of KhONO.
        It turned out that:
        Vodka Wine Beer
        They drink it daily. ,. ... ... ... 1 11 20
        They drink on Sundays. ... ... 17 39 58
        Drink on holidays ♦. ... ... 64 162 144
        That is, at least 162/280 = 58% sometimes used alcohol
        3) The same picture will be with female alcoholism - how it could have happened "1000 times" is inexplicable. For this to happen, the ratio of male alcoholics to female alcoholics before the war must be 10000: 1. This was not found anywhere in the world in the 20th century in Europeoid societies, where alcohol was not historically taboo in culture. I could not find where he took the data for 1940, but I found others in Russia, at the beginning of the century and for the required 80s, for example:
        - Among alcoholic patients who underwent outpatient treatment in 1909, 1911/1912. in Moscow,
        Tula and Yaroslavl provinces, there were 16 695 men and 2160 women (ratio - 7,7: 1) [Korovin A. M.,].
        - In the USSR, by the mid-80s, the ratio of women and men with alcoholism was 1: 9,8 -1: 12,6 [Gofman A. G., Kupriyanov A. T., 1977]. According to a sample study, the ratio of women and men in dispensaries in Moscow was 1: 10 [Lisitsyn Yu. P., Kopyt N. Ya., 1983]. In Riga in 1976 this proportion was 1: 9.2, and in 1984 - 1: 5,9 [Strazdinsh Ya .. K., 1985]. In Georgia, from 1975 to 1982, the ratio of men and women with this diagnosis in cities was 10: 1, and in rural areas - 12: 1 [Naneishvili NN et al., 1984]

        Andrey, in general, if you want to see a picture in the USSR, then do not look at Uglov, because no one hushed up the problem, and the books of narcologists (not a radical surgeon) are a dime a dozen. I recommend Guzikov, Zaigraev, the already mentioned Lisitsin.
        The fact that you have not seen the game of numbers does not mean that it does not exist. The simplest examples that do not require long explanations:
        1) Substitution of the concepts of "growth rate" for "growth rate of growth of the indicator"
        2) Comparison not by quantitative, but by monetary indicators. What is not correct: 1) over the 40 years under consideration, prices for products have increased 2,7 times; 2) the ratio of products has changed, there are more expensive drinks in it.
        3) A banal comparison of this one:
        1970 to 1979 the population increased by 8%, production of flour and bakery products - by 17%, and alcoholic "drinks" by 300%

        will show that the growth in the volume of production in the bakery industry is 25%, not 8%
        alcohol - 31%, wine - 67%, brewing - 51%.
        Source - National Economy of the USSR 1980
        Well, and so on ...
        1. Foul skeptic
          Foul skeptic 29 September 2020 12: 43
          0
          Adjustment:
          increase in the volume of production in the bakery industry - 25%, not 17%
        2. Olgovich
          Olgovich 29 September 2020 13: 44
          +3
          Quote: Nefarious skeptic
          Agree, the dynamics are not so terrifying as in the case of 43% and 99%. Therefore, it is natural that the second group of numbers was chosen at a conference on total sobriety.
          And in a similar way, he does everywhere - he does not give figures from different sources (specific studies with links to them), but chooses only one beautiful figure from many that are not identical in terms of verification.

          I disagree: Angles has been systematically dealing with this issue for TEN YEARS, you ... half an hour. And what are your pulling out of SEPARATE places in this consideration?

          He cites OBJECTIVE data on whole CATEGORIES of workers and his LONG years of observation-research.
          So .-not acceptable.
          Quote: Nefarious skeptic
          Moreover, the situation with 16,6% is incomprehensible at all (I personally could not find where he got it)

          He directly writes where: "Young Communist", 1975, no. 9, p. 102-103.

          Quote: Nefarious skeptic
          That is, at least 162/280 = 58% sometimes used alcohol

          Don't give a damn about ... ONE school: a rural school is not an urban one, but any small town is not a Moscow one.

          Quote: Nefarious skeptic
          The same picture will be with female alcoholism - how it could have happened "1000 times" is inexplicable.

          And like this:
          Police officers of N. Tagil reported that in 1970, 700 alcoholics were registered with them in a psychiatric hospital, of which 2 women, as of January 1, 1980, 9800 alcoholics were identified and registered, including over 800 women and 78 adolescents under 18.


          Murderous numbers!
          Quote: Nefarious skeptic
          Andrey, in general, if you want to see a picture in the USSR, then do not look at Uglov, because no one hushed up the problem, and the books of narcologists (not a radical surgeon) are a dime a dozen. I recommend Guzikov, Zaigraev, the already mentioned Lisitsin.
          The fact that you have not seen the game of numbers does not mean that it does not exist.

          The problem was not hushed up, it was CREATED by dramatically increasing the production of alcohol, making it accessible to the public: this is:
          from 1940 to 1980 the population of our country increasedb 35%, then the consumption of alcoholic "drinks" has increased on 770%
          -just FACT.

          110 bottles of VODKA a year for a man in 1984 in the USSR is WHAT ?!

          From this seas of poison this follows absolutely logically:
          female alcoholism has increased 1000 times.

          -the youth. In 1925, 18% of those drinking under 16,6 years old, in our time - up to 95%.

          -in 1925, 43% of the various categories of workers were teetotal men, now they make up 1-2%


          Hence, the first places in the world for alcoholics, divorces, suicides, depopulation, tebils, tobacco smoking.

          And here is HOW it should have been under the NORMAL course of things, if there was NORMAL power::
          During the period of the anti-alcohol decree, 5,5 million were born per year newborns, нand 500 thousand more per yearthan each year for the previous 20 — 30 years, and the weakened were born 8% less. Expected duration the life of men increased by 2,6 years and reached the maximum value in the entire history of Russia, the overall crime rate has decreased.]. Reducing mortality, divorce

          Count yourself how much tens of millions of citizens over the 20-30 years mentioned, lost Russia to, drowned by the Bolsheviks in a sea of ​​alcohol?

          PS Thank you very much, Timur, for detailed comments, pulling on good-quality articles for VO and not only (why, by the way, is it not?).

          BUT-you are trying to prove the unprovable in principle for the results of that power is a CATASTROPHE and this is a fact that cannot be refuted even by you.

          In any case, I am grateful for an interesting conversation,

          Best regards
          1. Foul skeptic
            Foul skeptic 29 September 2020 18: 38
            0
            I disagree: Angles has been systematically dealing with this issue for TEN YEARS, you ... half an hour. And what are your pulling out of SEPARATE places in this consideration?
            He cites OBJECTIVE data on whole CATEGORIES of workers and his LONG years of observation-research.

            1) All that Uglov did for decades in the field of narcology was to use his own interpretation of publicly available data, supplementing them with correspondence sent to his fund.
            2) I am not half an hour. Not decades, but not half an hour.
            3) Pulling is when one number is given without indicating the author, date and research methodology. And this is how Uglov's journalism is built. Well, plus problems with math.
            4) I look at the list of his monographs - and I do not see any of his studies in narcology. They cannot even theoretically exist, since for this one must be a psychiatrist.
            He directly writes where: "Young Communist", 1975, no. 9, p. 102-103.

            Seriously? A link to a youth magazine is not a link to specialized literature. In the near future I will not have the opportunity to get into the RGASPI, but I will definitely visit and see this issue. Let's bet that it contains anything but specifics? Ready? )) Or maybe you can provide this number as proof? I can send scans to confirm all the figures I have cited.
            Don't give a damn about ... ONE school: a rural school is not an urban one, but any small town is not a Moscow one.

            So I'm trying to tell you that Uglov does just that - he takes data from some kind of research that does not provide conditions. You take another, you get different numbers. I tried to convey this to you all the previous message. He also assigns to PRIVATE cases the category GENERAL.
            And like this:
            Police officers of N. Tagil reported that in 1970 they had 700 alcoholics registered in a psychiatric hospital, of which 2 were women; as of January 1, 1980, 9800 alcoholics were identified and registered, including over 800 women. and 78 adolescents under 18.

            What is so? This is not a confirmation of his claim that before the war of women with alcoholism among men there were hundredths of a percent (i.e. 10000: 1). This is the first thing. And secondly, why don't you see how he mixes different categories? Let me explain:
            that В 1970 they had 700 alcoholics registered in a psychiatric hospital, 2 of them were women, AT On January 1, 1980, 9800 alcoholics were identified and registered, including over 800 women and 78 adolescents under 18 years of age.

            The second digit is cumulativehow much is registered by a certain year, and not how much is delivered this year.
            There is data on the Union, you just need to know where to look and what to look for - in 1980, 205,8 people were first diagnosed. per 100000 people, cumulatively registered - 1235 people. per 100000 people
            from 1940 to 1980 the population of our country increased by 35%, the consumption of alcoholic "drinks" increased by 770%
            -just FACT.

            If we cite this sentence in full, then it will be only the fact of the next manipulation (or two in mathematics). But even in this form, it is still manipulative. To understand this, it is enough just to see that the consumption of other goods has grown over this period, too, not by 35%. - Meat products by 1400%, fish products by 1000%, animal fats by 840%, vegetable fats by 470%, dairy products by 1800%, eggs by 2700%, confectionery by 680%, bakery by 200%. By the way, the population received more alcohol by 680%, and not 770% (just to promote a healthy lifestyle, mathematics does not play a leading role laughing )
            Hence, the first places in the world for alcoholics, divorces, suicides, depopulation, tebils, tobacco smoking.
            Russia in, drowned by the Bolsheviks in a sea of ​​alcohol?

            I have advised you quite definite authors-narcologists. Read on. Stop writing what you write. If you want, I can send it so that they don't look, there is mail now.
            and this is a fact that even you cannot overturn.

            Andrey, I seem to be talking with you about something else - about the situation with the report of a specific person. I seem to be substantive, with figures, sources and calculations showing specific places where information is presented not from the side of medical statistics, but from the propaganda side. Therefore, let's stay within the framework of the topic, and not start your favorite cry of Yaroslavna about "terrible times".
            By the way, this one:
            Over the past 5 years, we have purchased abroad alcohol and tobacco products for more than 4 billion rubles. This is 4 times the value of our grain purchases in 1979

            In addition to the fact that it is a manipulation, the numbers do not correspond to reality. It is checked elementary. Check it yourself or paint it for you? )))
            articles for VO and not only (why, by the way, is it not?)

            Why not? )) But not for VO and not an article.
            1. Olgovich
              Olgovich 30 September 2020 09: 15
              +1
              Quote: Nefarious skeptic
              1) All that Uglov did for decades in the field of narcology was to use his own interpretation of publicly available data, supplementing them with correspondence sent to his fund.

              Clever Angles!
              Quote: Nefarious skeptic
              2) I am not half an hour. Not decades, but not half an hour.

              Compare your hour and ... decades.
              I have no doubts
              Quote: Nefarious skeptic
              Pulling is when one figure is given without indicating the author, date and research method

              ONE figure (with sources) against the background of HUNDREDS of thousands of potential figures UNOUNTED about the same, nothing.
              Pulling out i.e.
              Quote: Nefarious skeptic
              They cannot even theoretically exist, since for this one must be a psychiatrist.

              With a fright?
              Quote: Nefarious skeptic
              Seriously? A link to a youth magazine is not a link to specialized literature.

              A link to the PARTY magazine, which, in fact, is plundering into itself, into its own party: this can only happen when PRAVDA strongly presses
              Quote: Nefarious skeptic
              If we cite this sentence in full, then it will be only the fact of the next manipulation (or two in mathematics). But even in this form, it is still manipulative. To understand this, it is enough just to see that the consumption of other goods has grown over this period by not 35% either - Meat products by 1400%, fish products on 1000%, animal fats by 840%, vegetable fats by 470%, dairy products by 1800%, eggs by 2700%, confectionery by 680%, bakery by 200%

              1. Cool figures you cited: they clearly showed in what DEEP ... (hole) your "successful" farming was and in WHAT wild hunger the people lived ..

              And yes, the figure is lying through and through, as evidenced by the adoption of the "Food Program of the USSR", the need for which showed that everything still, deep, yes..

              About this, the fact that the USSR is the largest importer of grain and meat

              2. What right do you have to talk about "manipulation": should the production of DRUGS (alcohol, heroin, etc.) grow in the same way as .... and staple foods?

              Sorry, you do it
              Quote: Nefarious skeptic
              the population received more alcohol by 680%, not 770%

              Don't be ridiculous with these pathetic quibbles: take 1981 and not 198o.

              The fact is, the wild growth of the production of alcohol, incomparable with the growth of the population.
              Quote: Nefarious skeptic
              and not start your favorite cry of Yaroslavna about "terrible times".

              scary is 1917-1953.
              Further, an unpromising life (incl. Social obligations) not for earning money.
              Bottom line, remember?
              1. Foul skeptic
                Foul skeptic 30 September 2020 11: 13
                -1
                Clever Angles!

                In addition, he could be a Komsomol member and just a handsome man. But at the same time he was not a scientist-narcologist.
                Compare your hour and ... decades.
                I have no doubts

                There is no doubt only that neither I nor Uglov are certified narcologists.
                ONE figure (with sources) against the background of HUNDREDS of thousands of potential figures UNOUNTED about the same, nothing.

                You wrote how Angles present information - one number against the background of unvoiced information about the same.
                With a fright?

                Probably with the fact that a narcologist is a psychiatrist who has undergone retraining after residency in the profile of "psychiatry-narcology"
                Link to PARTY magazine

                Anyway, that didn't make him medical. We will return to the magazine when I get to RGASPI.
                You cited cool numbers: they clearly showed in what DEEP ... (hole) your "successful" farm was and in WHAT wild hunger the people lived ..

                No, it shows the source of the figures obtained by Angular - tables with retail sales to the population in the state trade. You need to understand the difference between retail state trade and agriculture. Stay in the discussion of Uglov's report.
                What right do you have to talk about "manipulation": should the production of DRUGS (alcohol, heroin, etc.) grow in the same way as .... and staple foods?

                Why am I not allowed to show manipulations with information? And what limits me in this legal field?
                And there is no need to attach opioid synthetics to alcohol. You are again trying to divert the conversation away from the report and the numbers in it.
                Don't be ridiculous with these pathetic nitpicks: take 1981 and not 198o

                What does nagging mean? This is incorrect data. And why should I take 1981 when the 1980 report says? I have already brought you such "mistakes" in the text of the report and a small cart. I have not yet seen a single confirmation of his numbers by you.
                The fact is, the wild growth of the production of alcohol, incomparable with the growth of the population.

                The fact is that the growth of alcohol is several times less than the growth of other products. The fact is that growth is due to non-strong alcoholic drinks.
                Bottom line, remember?

                I remember that we are talking about a specific report. So let's talk about it.
                And, the funny thing is, answer a simple question:
                Why do the Internet dumpsters, where you got acquainted with this report (where everyone has the same text), use only it? There is no Pyatnitskaya, no Kondrashenko, no Urakov, no Guzikov, none of the narcologists of the 80s-90s.
                1. Olgovich
                  Olgovich 30 September 2020 15: 23
                  +1
                  Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                  In addition, he could be a Komsomol member and just a handsome man. But at the same time he was not a scientist-narcologist.

                  What for?

                  The narcologist counts ... interest, production and communication?
                  Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                  There is no doubt only that neither I nor Uglov are certified narcologists.

                  But he has been doing this for TENS of years! Unlike you.

                  The difference is undeniable.
                  Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                  You wrote how Angles present information - one number against the background of unvoiced information about the same.

                  So you submit, and the person dealing with the problem dozens of years, a person has the RIGHT to talk about TRENDS and LEGALITIES
                  Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                  Probably with the fact that a narcologist is a psychiatrist who has undergone retraining after residency in the profile of "psychiatry-narcology"

                  What is "probably" worth?
                  It's nothing.
                  Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                  Anyway, that didn't make him medical. We will return to the magazine when I get to RGASPI.

                  An amazing statement: social and political publications ALWAYS write on the basis of data from medical, pedagogical, scientific, technical journals, etc., otherwise WHERE would they take the BASIS of their articles?
                  Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                  No, this shows the source of the figures obtained by Angular - tables with retail sales to the population in the state trade. You need to understand the difference between retail state trade and agriculture. Stay as part of the discussion of Uglov's report.

                  1. What is this ... "difference", what are you talking about?
                  And yes, in p. trade is selling products from Mars, not from the farm?

                  2. I stay within (You left of them, forgot-with meat, cond products, etc.)?
                  Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                  Why am I not allowed to show manipulations with information? And what limits me in this legal field?
                  And there is no need to attach opioid synthetics to alcohol. You are again trying to divert the conversation away from the report and the numbers in it.

                  1. So ... there is NO manipulation, everything FITS, and population growth and alcohol growth.

                  The growth of meat sales, attracted by you, neither to the village nor to the city.

                  2. It is necessary to fasten: both opium and alcohol-drugs.

                  3. I do not take away, but I respond to YOUR diversion with meat: the growth in meat consumption has nothing to do with the growth in the consumption of drugs and alcohol.

                  For the first is a vital need, and the second is the murder committed by the authorities absolutely consciously.

                  Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                  What does nagging mean? This is incorrect data.

                  This is CORRECT data:


                  The fleas that you catch look like pathetic attempts to discredit the MAIN THING, caught by Uglov.
                  Did not work out. no
                  Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                  The fact is that the growth of alcohol is several times less than the growth of other products. The fact is that growth is due to non-strong alcoholic drinks.

                  What ... several times? Less fat, less bread, etc.

                  Yes, WHAT STATY should he ALL grow ?! What kind of game?

                  and yes, tell me why beer alcoholism is better than vodka.
                  Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                  I remember that we are talking about a specific report.

                  And we talk about the report only in the light a common deep ... (holes).

                  Otherwise, why?
                  Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                  Why do the Internet dumpsters, where you got acquainted with this report (where everyone has the same text), use only it? There is no Pyatnitskaya, no Kondrashenko, no Urakov, no Guzikov, none of the narcologists of the 80s-90s.

                  I learned about him from a monograph on drunkenness in the USSR - I was in the PDF, but unfortunately I lost it.

                  PS I will be happy to read your articles - are they written for the readers?
                  I am one of them.

                  If necessary, I will keep your incognito.
                  1. Foul skeptic
                    Foul skeptic 30 September 2020 18: 47
                    0
                    The narcologist counts ... interest, production and communication?

                    Are you surprised that scientists studying the social and hygienic problems of society, which include alcoholism, are engaged in the sociological side of the issue, and not only the psychiatric and physiological, that is, including, they count percentages and connections (production can also be attributed to connections)? As far as I understand, the narcologist in your opinion is only a doctor in a dispensary?
                    But he has been doing this for TENS of years! Unlike you.
                    The difference is undeniable.

                    What did you do? Tell me his scientific research, not a journalistic work on alcoholism. No? Well, I don't have any on the topic of alcoholism. The difference then in what is the coverage of the issue by me and them? Just because I avoid manipulation? And do not blame Masons and Jews for the soldering of the Russian people?
                    So you submit, and a person who has been dealing with a problem for decades has the RIGHT to talk about TRENDS and LEGALITIES

                    That you constantly give out rights to someone, and restrict someone in them? Anyone has the right to speak. But the one who wants his words to be taken seriously also has a duty - to confirm his words and exclude manipulation of public opinion. In relation to Uglov, I spoke earlier - I can understand his "manipulations for the good", but this does not stop them being manipulations.
                    An amazing statement: social and political publications ALWAYS write on the basis of data from medical, pedagogical, scientific, technical journals, etc., otherwise WHERE would they take the BASIS of their articles?

                    They made fun of it so much)))
                    Please tell us why the New York Times published an article in the summer about the awarding of awards by the Russian Federation to the Taliban for the murder of American soldiers? Remember the work of Korotich in Ogonyok?
                    1. What is this ... "difference", what are you talking about?
                    And yes, in p. trade is selling products from Mars, not from the farm?
                    2. Stay within the framework (you got out of them, forgotten with meat, cond products, etc.)?

                    1) From agriculture. Only there is no direct permanent relationship between the amount produced on collective and state farms and the amount received in retail trade. Didn't you know that? Let's start with the basics, with public procurement. A simple example.
                    We grew vegetables in 1940, 13 732 thousand tons, and in 1965 - 17 627 thousand tons. An increase of 28%.
                    The state bought 1940 thousand tons in 2, in 970 - 1965 thousand tons. Increase by 7%.
                    And already from state purchases, products will go into retail, but even so not all of the amount, since some will go to public catering, some to the army, some to hospitals, kindergartens, state reserves, etc.
                    Therefore, to conclude that since there was an increase in sales N times in the state retail, it means that earlier they grew N times less - a delusion from ignorance.
                    2) An example with an increase in the consumption of other products is completely within the framework, since it shows manipulation in the report, and we seem to be talking about manipulation in the report.
                    3. I do not take away, but I answer YOUR diversion with meat: the growth in meat consumption has nothing to do with the growth in the consumption of drugs and alcohol.

                    Then why does Uglov use a comparison with bakery products, since the growth in food consumption has nothing to do with the growth in drug-alcohol consumption? Make such a remark to him! laughing
                    For the first is a vital need, and the second is the murder committed by the authorities absolutely consciously.

                    Pathetics. You are now talking about any country where alcohol is sold.
                    This is CORRECT data:

                    AND? If this table is not in the report, why discuss them (to be honest, I could not really see it on the tablet, the quality is bad, but in general I guess about the content)? We are looking at the manipulation of the report, not the amount of alcohol per person. By the way, a friendly advice - try to use the data not of the entire population, but 15 years and older. This is more correct in the case of comparing different countries - the demographic pyramid is taken into account.
                    discredit the MAIN THING caught by Uglov

                    He discredited himself by distorting the information. I just indicated where and how it was done.
                    What ... several times? Less fat, less bread, etc.

                    What PR..? Less too? laughing A person does not eat money, he eats food. Uglov uses data in monetary terms, not in kind. I wrote about it. I explain roughly on the fingers - even if bread in rubles was sold only by 200%, and alcohol by 680%, the situation in loaves and bottles will be somewhat different - the cost of one bottle of vodka is not equal to a loaf of bread, but equal to 3,62 / 0,28, 13 = 3 loaves of bread. Therefore, there are 13 * 7,8 / 5 = XNUMX times more loaves of bread than bottles of vodka.
                    and yes, tell me why beer alcoholism is better than vodka.

                    A certified narcologist will do it better, contact a specialized specialist. Nuances are possible, for example, in one, the degree of addiction is more severe, and in the other, the rate of increase in physiological consequences. I can only say that one thing, that the other does not represent anything good, to graduate is not unfounded there is not enough knowledge.
                    I will be happy to read your articles, are they written for the readers?
                    I am one of them.

                    Are you interested in mathematical modeling in thermodynamics and gas dynamics and applied game theory?
                    And yet, you wonder why
                    ... Internet dumpsters, use only [Uglov's report]? There is no Pyatnitskaya, no Kondrashenko, no Urakov, no Guzikov, none of the drug addiction doctors of the 80s-90s.
                    1. Foul skeptic
                      Foul skeptic 30 September 2020 21: 32
                      0
                      Increase by 260%.

                      160%
                    2. Olgovich
                      Olgovich 1 October 2020 07: 17
                      +1
                      Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                      Are you surprised that scientists studying the social and hygienic problems of society, which include alcoholism, are engaged in the sociological side of the issue, and not only the psychiatric and physiological, that is, including, they count percentages and connections (production can also be attributed to connections)? As far as I understand, the narcologist in your opinion is only a doctor in a dispensary?



                      There are generally accepted definitions: Narcology is a field of medicine, studying the manifestations of drug addiction, substance abuse and chronic alcoholism, developing methods for their diagnosis, treatment and prevention.

                      Your interpretations are not accepted.
                      Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                      What did you do? Tell me his scientific research, not a journalistic work on alcoholism. No? Well, I don't have any on the topic of alcoholism. The difference then in what is the coverage of the issue by me and them? Just because I avoid manipulation?

                      Catch has a few BOOKS on the topic of alcoholization in Russia, you have zero.
                      The difference is obvious to any unbiased person
                      Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                      That you constantly give out rights to someone, and restrict someone in them? ...

                      I have the right. And you have no right to restrict me in this right.
                      Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                      With regard to Uglov, I spoke earlier - I can understand his "manipulations for the good", but this does not stop them being manipulations.

                      You have proved NOTHING to me.
                      Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                      They made fun of it so much)))
                      Please tell us why the New York Times published an article in the summer about the awarding of awards by the Russian Federation to the Taliban for the murder of American soldiers? Remember the work of Korotich in Ogonyok?

                      No, it’s YOU, tell me WHAT THE COMMUNIST magazine of the USSR, which is under the strictest control in the "selection" of sources, is like CLEANING. scooping mud from any swamp.
                      Funny.
                      Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                      From agriculture. Only there is no direct permanent relationship between the amount produced on collective and state farms and the amount received in retail trade.

                      Nonsense you say, there is the most direct connection: more produced, more purchased.

                      The very percentage of purchases from the produced is fluctuating.

                      And yes there was a network of businesses Retail cooperative trade
                      Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                      An example with an increase in the consumption of other products is completely within the framework, as it shows the manipulation in the report

                      Yes, it shows NOTHING: the wild growth of output / consumption (against the background of no growth in population) is a FACT you have not refuted.

                      WHAT straight the relationship between meat consumption and ... drugs?

                      90s - REVERSE addiction
                      Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                      Then why does Uglov use the comparison with bakery products, since the growth in food consumption has nothing to do with the growth in drug-alcohol consumption?

                      And why did he show WILD growth in alcohol production against the background of NO population growth?

                      Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                      Pathetics. You are now talking about any country where alcohol is sold.

                      Where is SUCH growth rate for SUCH period?
                      Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                      the cost of one bottle of vodka is not equal to a loaf of bread, but equal to 3,62 / 0,28 = 13 loaves of bread. Therefore, there are 3 * 13 / 7,8 = 5 times more loaves of bread than bottles of vodka.

                      Nope, this means that instead of ONE bottle of vodka, EIGHT bottles were produced / consumed. And this "growth" in just 40 years.

                      Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                      A certified narcologist will do it better, contact a specialized specialist. Nuances are possible, for example, in one, the degree of addiction is more severe, and in the other, the rate of increase in physiological consequences. I can only say that one thing, that the other does not represent anything good, to graduate is not unfounded there is not enough knowledge.

                      Nuances = into the firebox: the result is the same as the amount of pure alcohol.
                      Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                      Are you interested in mathematical modeling in thermodynamics and gas dynamics and applied game theory?

                      I would read about games.
                      Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                      And yet, you wonder why
                      ... Internet dumpsters, use only [Uglov's report]? There is no Pyatnitskaya, no Kondrashenko, no Urakov, no Guzikov, none of the drug addiction doctors of the 80s-90s.

                      I don’t know internet dumpsters.

                      And yet, YOU didn’t think HOW it so happened that with a population growth of 35%, the growth of production alcohol by .... 770%?
                    3. Foul skeptic
                      Foul skeptic 1 October 2020 10: 37
                      0
                      There are generally accepted definitions: Narcology is a field of medicine that studies the manifestations of drug addiction, substance abuse and chronic alcoholism, and develops methods for their diagnosis, treatment and prevention.
                      Your interpretations are not accepted.

                      This will never end, as I understand it. This is not just my interpretation.
                      Great Medical Encyclopedia:
                      NARCOLOGY (Greek narke numbness, numbness + logos doctrine) is a section of psychiatry that studies the manifestations, etiology and pathogenesis of substance abuse, including drug addiction, develops methods for their prevention, treatment and organizing assistance.
                      Do you know the meaning of the word "etiology"?
                      Etiology (Greek αἰτία "cause" + Old Greek λόγος "word, doctrine" [1]) is a branch of medicine that studies the causes and conditions of disease.
                      Therefore, if you take the specialized literature on alcoholism, you will certainly find sections related to the sociology of the phenomenon. I take in a row the books of the authors mentioned above:
                      Pyatnitskaya "Alcohol abuse and the initial stage of alcoholism" 1988. The book contains chapter II "The etiology of alcoholism. The influence of the environment" and chapter IV "Prerequisites for the transition to alcoholism. Social factors contributing to abuse."
                      Brothers "Psychology, clinic and prevention of early alcoholism" 1984. The book contains chapter I "From alcoholic customs to alcoholic illness. Comparative analysis of the prevalence and nature of early alcoholism"
                      Banshchikov "Alcoholism and alcoholic psychoses" 1968. The book contains chapter I "Etiology and pathogenesis of alcoholism. The role of socio-economic conditions"
                      For Lisitsyn, even the title of the book speaks for itself "Alcoholism. Social and Hygienic Aspects"
                      Continue?
                      Catch has a few BOOKS on the topic of alcoholization in Russia, you have zero.
                      The difference is obvious to any unbiased person

                      AND? A certain Klesov A.A. fifteen books on "DNA genealogy". I asked you for a specific thing
                      Give me his scientific research, not a publicistic work on alcoholism.

                      That you constantly give out rights to someone, and restrict someone in them? ...
                      I have the right.

                      Not really. Consult a lawyer.
                      You proved NOTHING to me

                      It is sad.
                      No, it's YOU tell me THAN KOMMUNISTICHESKIY SSSRa magazine, under the strictest control in the "selection" of sources, similar for CLEANING. scooping mud from any swamp.

                      the goal is to form the required public opinion on this or that. In my opinion, I suggested closing the issue with the magazine until the moment when one of us can provide it to the other.
                      Because after checking "Lomehuz" for the correctness of the links, it turned out that some of them are links to himself and his fellow radicals in the anti-alcohol society. A specific example: following a link to the popular science journal "Knowledge-Sila", the following was found. This article contains materials from a conference on environmental problems. The speaker Iskakov (a member of Uglov's anti-alcohol society) spoke about alcohol and mentioned the theory of "three generations" (without providing evidence and without referring to anyone). In "Lomehuz", however, Uglov, confirming his "conclusions" with this "theory", writes in relation to the reference that in it this theory is "convincingly proved."
                      Do you want the funniest thing? In the same book it is written:
                      From 1940 to 1980, we began to produce more bread and flour by 200%, and alcohol by 690%

                      Already closer to the truth, but still missed. As I said
                      (just to promote a healthy lifestyle, mathematics does not play a leading role laughing)

                      770 ... 690 ... what difference does it make who will check, the main thing in religion is faith.
                      Nonsense you say, there is the most direct connection: more produced, more purchased.
                      The very percentage of purchases from the produced is fluctuating.
                      And yes, there was a network of retail cooperative trade enterprises

                      So why the hell with the numbers of increasing sales in retail, you wrote this:
                      1. Cool figures you cited: they clearly showed in what DEEP ... (hole) your "successful" farming was and in WHAT wild hunger the people lived ..

                      If the percentage of purchases does not depend on production ?! Squeeze out a tear? Just from not owning the topic?
                      And yes, if you take the time to study instead of empty transfusion, you will find that it is not necessary that when they produced more, they bought more (and vice versa). Any potato harvest 59-60 will not let you lie.
                      WHAT is the direct relationship between meat consumption and ... drugs?

                      And what is between bread and ... drugs?
                      wild growth of output / consumption (against the background of no growth in population) is a FACT you have not refuted.

                      this is a fact that in itself does not mean anything, since the production of other products has grown even more.

                      And why did he show WILD growth in alcohol production against the background of NO population growth?

                      It is a masterpiece laughing laughing laughing
                      So ask him - why did he show this if these are not related quantities? I am explaining this to you for the fifth message in a row.
                      Where is SUCH growth rate for SUCH period?

                      And where is such an increase in the production of other products?
                      Nope, this means that instead of ONE bottle of vodka, EIGHT bottles were produced / consumed.

                      And instead of one loaf of bread they ate 39 / 1,11 = 35 And?
                      And, by the way, not 8 bottles of vodka, but 7,8 / 2,7 = 3. What is 1,11 and 2,7 to explain?
                      And yet, YOU have not thought, HOW it so happened that with a population growth of 35%, the growth of Alklgol production by .... 770%?

                      It's very hard for me, Andrey.
                      I thought that after the past posts, you should have realized that 35% and 770% are not initially equal, the first figure is a natural expression, the second is a value. Moreover, even if we leave not equivalent evaluation criteria, it will still not be 35% and 770%, but 35% and 190%. Since the index of state prices for alcohol in retail rose from 1,0 in 1940 to 2,7 in 1980.
                      I don’t know internet dumpsters.

                      Oh, come on. But even if so, this does not prevent you from answering the question:
                      why
                      ... Internet dumpsters, use only [Uglov's report]? There is no Pyatnitskaya, no Kondrashenko, no Urakov, no Guzikov, none of the drug addiction doctors of the 80s-90s.
                    4. Olgovich
                      Olgovich 1 October 2020 13: 30
                      0
                      Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                      NARCOLOGY (Greek narke numbness, numbness + logos teaching) - a section of psychiatry that studies the manifestations, etiology and pathogenesis of substance abuse, including drug addiction, develops methods for their prevention, treatment and organizing assistance


                      AGAIN:
                      The narcologist thinks ... interest, production and communication?

                      No, it does not count, neither the production of alcohol, nor its growth ..
                      Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                      AND? A certain Klesov A.A. fifteen books on "DNA genealogy". I asked you for a specific thing

                      See Uglov's bibliography
                      Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                      Not really. Consult a lawyer.

                      Do we have administrative / criminal proceedings?

                      You do not have the slightest right to determine the rights of others.
                      Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                      It is sad.

                      But-FACT!
                      Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                      If the percentage of purchases does not depend on production ?! Squeeze out a tear? Just from not owning the topic?

                      Purchase / sales growth right proportional to the growth of production: growing production, and sales are growing, with certain fluctuations: take, for example, 1928 and 1980-
                      What's not clear?!
                      Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                      And what is between bread and ... drugs?

                      Wildly when in hungry still in the country the production of alcohol is growing faster than the production of bread.
                      Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                      this is a fact that in itself does not mean anything, since the production of other products has grown even more.

                      This means a lot: the unfortunate leadership did not acquire brains, "obtaining" money for the same medicine for alcoholic tebils - the sale of vodka.

                      How many times have you evaded answering a simple question: WHY was the production of alcohol supposed to grow?

                      What kind of happiness have you decided to give to the people?
                      Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                      So ask him - why did he show this if these are not related quantities? I am explaining this to you for the fifth message in a row.

                      These are VERY related values, because the growth rate of the poison should not be several times higher than the growth rate of the population - for me, both angles and millions are obvious

                      If for you the norm is that, conditionally, a son will drink FIVE-EIGHT TIMES more vodka in a year than a parent at HIS age -that we are on different planets of normality, sorry, we live.

                      110 bottles of vodka for every man in the year 1984 !!! Out of your mind ?! They are?
                      Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                      ... But even if so, this does not prevent you from answering the question:
                      why
                      ... Internet dumpsters, use only [Uglov's report]? There is no Pyatnitskaya, no Kondrashenko, no Urakov, no Guzikov, none of the drug addiction doctors of the 80s-90s.

                      If I don't know / don't read them, HOW can I answer?
                    5. Foul skeptic
                      Foul skeptic 1 October 2020 18: 08
                      0
                      AGAIN:
                      The narcologist counts ... interest, production and communication?

                      Once again, yes. But what does the calculation of production have to do with it? What Angles Calculates Production? No, it uses ready-made statistics data. So narcologists do not calculate the reasons, but are looking for a LINK between cause and effect. The result of this connection - including the percentage.
                      See Uglov's bibliography

                      I have read Uglov's bibliography.
                      Give me his scientific research, not a publicistic work on alcoholism.

                      Do we have administrative / criminal proceedings?
                      You do not have the slightest right to determine the rights of others.

                      Show me in which post I did it. You made:
                      That you constantly give out rights to someone, and restrict someone in them? ...
                      I have the right.

                      The growth of purchases / sales is directly proportional to the growth of production: the growth of production is growing, and sales are growing with certain fluctuations: take, for example, 1928 and 1980-
                      What's not clear?!

                      1) It is not clear why you equated sales growth rates in retail with production in agriculture.
                      You brought cool numbers: they clearly showed in what DEEP ... (hole) your "successful" farm was
                      Although how incomprehensible ... understandable. From ignorance.
                      2) How in general can one enter into polemics when there is no understanding even of what proportionality is and a special case is direct proportionality?
                      Two mutually dependent quantities are called proportional if the ratio of their values ​​remains unchanged

                      Two quantities are called directly proportional if, when one of them increases (decreases) several times, the other increases (decreases) by the same amount.

                      I already wrote a simple example for you, well, read it, please:
                      Have grown vegetables in 1940, 13 732 thousand tons, and in 1965 - 17 627 thousand tons. Increase by 28%.
                      Bought the state in 1940 2 thousand tons, in 970 - 1965 thousand tons. Increase by 160%.

                      What direct proportionality can there be between the growth of production and purchases, when in one case the coefficient of proportionality is 1,28, and in the second - 2,6 ?? !!
                      Give your data for 1928 and 1980 (only with sources of numbers), make sure that there is no proportion there either.
                      It's wild when in a still hungry country the production of alcohol grows faster than the production of bread.

                      I explained to you on my fingers in one of the previous messages that in QUANTITATIVE terms the growth of bread was 5 times faster than the growth of alcohol in the period under review (even without taking into account the retail price index)
                      If the growth in the COST of alcohol is higher than the growth in the cost of bread, then this is correct.
                      How many times have you evaded answering a simple question: WHY was the production of alcohol supposed to grow?

                      Because such questions are confused when you hear them not from a child.
                      Why shouldn't it have grown? Have you completed the restructuring of the cultural structure? Have you lost demand? Is alcohol on the international list of substances whose release is controlled by the state according to the 1961 Single Convention?
                      And then you somehow with the question "why should the production of alcohol grow" fixated on one period and one country.
                      Do you want to know the degree of retail sales to the population according to the method of the discussed report? No. 3 in the list of chain companies "Red and White" - if we take the alcohol sold in 2011 for 1 (10 billion rubles), then in 2020 this unit will turn into 45 (450 billion rubles). Increase in demand in the largest alcohol network 4400% in 10 years. And 680% surprises you in 40 years?
                      These are VERY related values, because the growth rate of the poison should not be several times higher than the growth rate of the population - for me, both angles and millions are obvious

                      It is only obvious that considering the growth rate of two quantities without determining the starting point of growth is a meaningless exercise. Should-should not - this is not a concept of mathematical statistics at all. She does not operate with them
                      You take the population growth rate and alcohol sales in the 21st century and tell me about the "connectedness" of these values.
                      If for you the norm is that, conventionally, your son will drink FIVE-EIGHT TIMES more vodka in a year than a parent at HIS age, then we are on different planets of normality, sorry, we live.

                      So this is not the norm for me - this is the norm for the WHO - if these are 5-8 times less than what they consider acceptable consumption, then what to break the spears about? The question is not the readiness of individual groups of the population, but of the broad masses to gradually limit alcohol consumption. And this is just a matter of education, not accessibility. Upbringing will establish a barrier "I don't want", if this barrier is not there, then limiting accessibility will not solve anything in the long run, it has been verified by history. Aren't you surprised that the WHO has increased the permissible intake from 8 to 10 liters?
                      All convenient hypothetical examples can be refuted by the same convenient hypothetical examples - well, they are ... hypothetical, conditional. If the conditional parent drank 0 liters of vodka, then the conditional child can drink at least 100 times more. This will also be 0 liters of vodka.
                      110 bottles of vodka for every man in 1984 !!! Out of your mind ?!

                      It's like ... if you spend a little time, then you will find such "calculations without calculations" for 200 bottles of vodka per man per year and even 325. No kidding, I came across such "bookkeepers" as well.
                      You just try to display this figure)) Tell me if it worked or not.
                      If I don't know / don't read them, HOW can I answer?

                      Well, we don't read a lot of things. But judge for yourself. Now you want to master some topic and write a work on it. You start by searching for material, is it logical? Usually, if you are not a pioneer, there will be more than enough material. On the social component of narcology, the material was "filled up", while I was talking with you these days, I downloaded about forty books of more than a dozen different well-known authors. This is just what is easily publicly available. Obviously, the authors of LJ rubbish have the same easy access to this literature. But for some reason they all have only Angles.
                      What are your assumptions why this is so?
                    6. Olgovich
                      Olgovich 1 October 2020 20: 59
                      0
                      Quote: Nefarious skeptic

                      Once again, yes.

                      Once again, NO.

                      Statisticians set numbers and percentages, sociologists make connections, drug therapists accept them.

                      A narcologist is, first of all, a doctor who relieves patients from alcohol, tobacco, drug addiction, performs its diagnostics, treatment and prevention.
                      Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                      It is not clear why you are indicators of growth Sales in retail trade equated to production in the agricultural.
                      You brought cool numbers: they clearly showed in what DEEP ... (hole) your "successful" farm was

                      Not equated (what non-Russian expressions), but LINKED.
                      Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                      Proportional are two mutually dependent quantities, if the ratio of their values ​​remains unchanged

                      You the word MUTUALLY understand what it means? No. Production does NOT depend on purchases, but purchases from production, yes. Production is growing - purchases are growing, on the contrary, in any way
                      Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                      I explained to you on my fingers in one of the previous messages that in QUANTITATIVE terms the growth of bread was 5 times faster than the growth of alcohol in the period under review (even without taking into account the retail price index)
                      If the growth in the COST of alcohol is higher than the growth in the cost of bread, then this is correct.

                      For VISIBILITY I gave you the GRAPH of growth of the production of alcohol in liters of PURE alcohol (without artisanal), it is FIVE TIMES, and with handicraft - EIGHT TIMES (15.4 l-Nemtsov. AV DMN), which is much faster than the growth of bread.
                      Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                      Why shouldn't it have grown? ...


                      A poison, a drug, should not grow, especially in the "advanced" country (as they lied about themselves), this is understandable to the child, but not to you ....
                      Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                      Increase in demand in the largest alcohol network 4400% in 10 years. And 680% surprises you in 40 years?

                      Ha, in the stall opposite the increase in alcohol sales by 10%. What a wild example?

                      And how does this compare with nasal intake?
                      Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                      It is only obvious that considering the growth rate of two quantities without determining the starting point of growth is a meaningless exercise.

                      1940-what is not clear?
                      Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                      The question is not the readiness of individual groups of the population, but of the broad masses to gradually limit alcohol consumption. And this is just a matter of education, not accessibility.

                      Well, absolutely complete, put up kiosks with marijuana near schools, at intersections and pr-what do you think will happen, huh? What kind of "education" will keep you from an epidemic?

                      According to this perverse logic, the fight against drug trafficking is unnecessary-
                      Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                      All convenient hypothetical examples can be refuted by the same convenient hypothetical examples - well, they are ... hypothetical, conditional. If the conditional parent drank 0 liters of vodka, then the conditional child can drink at least 100 times more. This will also be 0 liters of vodka.

                      Nonsense: alcohol in negligible doses is in many products and is still in the blood of every non-drinker, so that the child will drink 100,000000001 times more.
                      Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                      It's like ... if you spend a little time, then you will find such "calculations without calculations" for 200 bottles of vodka per man per year and even 325

                      Easy: For each person, 15,2 liters of pure alcohol is 38 liters of vodka, 78 bottles per baby, incl.

                      We subtract children, women (with their share),% of non-drinkers and low-drinkers and we get that 80% of adult men in a "happy" society survived 200 bottles of vodka a year, i.e. were alcoholics- from "happiness", apparently, to live and create in such a "happy society."
                      Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                      But for some reason they all have only Angles.

                      Nemtsov, Sharapov, Nuzhny, Treml, Nikishin, etc.

                      Nemtsov, for example, -DMN with a bunch of MONOGRAPHS on the topic of alcoholism, his tsmfra-15,2 L CHA on a conscientious baby. women, etc.

                      Murderers, there is NO other definition for those grief of the rulers who drowned the Russian people in the "happiness" of alcohol, unable to give it a real one.
                    7. Foul skeptic
                      Foul skeptic 7 October 2020 10: 34
                      0
                      Hello Andrei. Was busy, could not answer, sorry.
                      A narcologist is, first of all, a doctor who relieves patients from alcohol, tobacco, drug addiction, performs its diagnostics, treatment and prevention.

                      So I was right when I wrote that for you narcology is narrowed down to the boundaries of a doctor in a dispensary. Reconsider the messages - it was about what narcology does, primarily as a science. There was a definition:
                      NARCOLOGY (Greek narke numbness, numbness + logos teaching) - a section of psychiatry, studying manifestations, etiology and pathogenesis of substance abuse, including drug addiction, developing methods of their prevention, treatment and carrying out organization of assistance

                      The order of priorities is directly stated:
                      1) Study (generation and systematization of knowledge)
                      2) Development of methods (transfer of this knowledge to an applied basis)
                      3) Implementation of assistance (application of the results of scientific activity - the same doctor mentioned)
                      And in this order, since it is a unified system for any area of ​​scientific knowledge.
                      Didn't equate (what non-Russian expressions), but LINKED

                      Yes, they tied it up, equating it (equating - a non-Russian word?). Reread your answer:
                      consumption of other goods increased over this period also by not 35% - Meat products by 1400%, fish products on 1000%, animal fats by 840%, vegetable fats by 470%, dairy products by 1800%, eggs by 2700%, confectionery by 680%, bakery by 200%

                      You brought cool numbers: they clearly showed in what DEEP ... (hole) your "successful" farm was

                      This selection has played a cruel joke on you, if it hadn't been for it, you could have moved out. But having highlighted the specific figures for the growth of retail state sales, speaking of the "pit of the farm", excuse me, but to say that having allocated 1400% you did not mean 1400%, and another figure (and for some reason unspeakable) will not work.
                      Moreover, you fixed it with the following answer:
                      [I] You need to understand the difference between retail state trade and agriculture.
                      [You] What is this ... "difference", what are you talking about?

                      It makes no difference for you lol
                      You understand the word MUTUALLYwhat does it mean? no Production is NOT dependent on purchases, but purchases from production, yes. Production is growing - purchases are growing, on the contrary, in any way

                      Another masterpiece laughing
                      Of course I understand. And you yourself realized that by turning to the property of "interdependence" you refuted yourself? I did this by referring to the property of "immutability of the relationship", since it was easier - there was a ready-made example from the previous posts. This:
                      We grew vegetables in 1940, 13 732 thousand tons, and in 1965 - 17 627 thousand tons. An increase of 28%.
                      The state bought 1940 thousand tons in 2, in 970 - 1965 thousand tons. Increase by 7%.

                      Do you remember the subject of the conversation?
                      1) I said that production in agriculture is not proportional to retail state sales, you - which is proportional.
                      2) In the definition of proportionality, you emphasize that the proportionality condition is Interdependence.
                      3) And then write that
                      Production-Does NOT depend on from purchases

                      your point 2 and 3 contradict each other. And that's not all ...
                      Since they contradict each other, the proportionality condition is violated and it turns out that production in agriculture is not proportional to the retail state sales (paragraph 1). Congratulations on the progress in establishing the truth! )) Even though you do not accept my arguments, you must already accept yours ... good
                      For VISIBILITY I gave you the GRAPH of the growth of alcohol production in liters of PURE alcohol (without artisanal), it is FIVE TIMES, and with artisanal - EIGHT TIMES (15.4 l-Nemtsov. AV DMN), which is much faster than the growth of bread ...

                      I probably missed it, but where did you provide a graph of sales of bread (bakery products) in units of production (loaves, rolls ... in kind, one word) for this period, so that you can see this "lead"?
                    8. Foul skeptic
                      Foul skeptic 7 October 2020 10: 34
                      0
                      A poison, a drug, should not grow, especially in the "advanced" country (as they lied about themselves), this is understandable to the child, but not to you ....

                      So you did not answer my question - should not - this is not the reason, the reason - why it should not. I repeat:
                      Have you completed the restructuring of the cultural structure? Have you lost demand? Is alcohol on the international list of substances whose release is controlled by the state according to the 1961 Single Convention?

                      Ha, in the stall opposite the increase in alcohol sales by 10%. What a wild example?

                      Wild. And I directly wrote:
                      Do you want to know about the growth rate of retail sales to the population by the method of the report under discussion?

                      Jokes aside, that Red and White, that the stall you mentioned, that the planet Earth as a whole shows only that interest in alcohol is not decreasing. And this does not depend on the type of business.
                      1940-what is not clear?

                      It is not clear why the starting point for you is the year, and not the natural indicator of the values ​​being compared this year.
                      Well, absolutely complete, put up kiosks with marijuana near schools, at intersections and pr-what do you think will happen, huh? What kind of "education" will keep you from an epidemic?
                      According to this perverse logic, the fight against drug trafficking is unnecessary-

                      1) And marijuana was excluded from the international list of substances whose release is controlled by the state according to the 1961 Single Convention?
                      2) The upbringing that is right now keeping some of the people from drinking alcohol and tobacco when it is fully available. Therefore, success in eliminating alcoholism depends on upbringing, not accessibility. Whether you like it or not.
                      Nonsense: alcohol in negligible doses is in many products and is still in the blood of every non-drinker,

                      It's nonsense to think that I don't remember the content of our messages)))
                      If for you the norm is that, conditionally, your son will drink FIVE-EIGHT TIMES more in a year vodka
                      If the conditional parent drank 0 liters vodka, then a conditional child can drink at least 100 times more. This will also be 0 liters. vodka

                      It is not necessary to fasten alcohol of kefir, pastries, kvass, fruits and the like.
                      so baby will drink 100,000000001 times more.

                      Andrey, I'm not trying to hurt you, but your math is lame. This is one of the reasons why it is so difficult for us to find a common language. In our father and son example - 5 or 8 or 100 - the proportionality factor we have adopted. He transforms the father's dose into the son's dose, himself remaining the same number.
                      Easy: For each person, 15,2 liters of pure alcohol is 38 liters of vodka, 78 bottles per baby, incl.
                      We take away children, women (with their share),% of non-drinkers and low-drinkers and we get that 80% of adult men in a "happy" owl society survived 200 bottles of vodka a year

                      It didn't work out easily)) Do you think I did not know what exactly this "calculation" I would receive from you? I did not write about in vain "calculations without calculations".
                      1) the mathematical receipt of the figure 15,2 is not shown. Why not 5 or 105? The answer - "but that and that said / thought so" is not accepted. The question immediately arises - why then this one and that one did not say / counted 5 or 105?
                      2) the number of children, women who do not drink is not substantiated.
                      3) the mathematical calculation of the proportion of alcohol attributable to drinking women has not been made.
                      4) even if you do not look at items 1-3, then the "bookkeepers" got 200 bottles like this - 76 bottles were multiplied by the ratio of the total population in 1984 to 0,8 of the male population in 1984. Namely 76 * (273,8 / (128,3 * 0,8)) = 203 bottles. Losers clap their hands together. The rest are perplexed - 76 is the sum of bottles drunk by drinking men and drinking women... Therefore, the figure 200 is not worth a damn, like all such "calculations".
                      And I expect from you the scheduled mathematical actions according to items 1-3.
                      Nemtsov, Sharapov, Nuzhny, Treml, Nikishin, etc.
                      Nemtsov, for example, is a DMN with a bunch of MONOGRAPHS on the topic of alcoholism, his tsmfra-15,2 liters of CHA for a conscientious baby. women, etc.

                      1) Find in his work, where the figure 15,2 (by the way, why 15,2, not 14,5) is signed as "consumption level"?
                      2) Have you ever wondered why they calculate the same thing, but the figure is not the same?
                      And because they do not count (do not take the word literally), but evaluate, that is, when considering, they use unknown distribution parameters accidental quantities.

                      By the way, Nemtsov's method (assessment of consumption through an assessment of violent mortality), among other methods, gave the largest overestimation of the indicator precisely because the estimate was derived according to the least predicted indicator than others.
                      And all works, regardless of the choice of the predicted indicator, are limited to the following:
                      1) the need to know the general level of alcohol consumption at the starting point
                      2) accumulation of the estimation error as the time interval lengthens
                      3) the effect of non-alcoholic factors on the alcoholic variable
                      Here is the data on the basis of which Nemtsov adjusted the level of consumption:

                      Let's think about how these graphs are converted to liters per person, I'll help you.
                      And we again deviated from the report very strongly.
                    9. Olgovich
                      Olgovich 8 October 2020 07: 01
                      0
                      Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                      The order of priorities is directly stated:
                      1) Study (generation and systematization of knowledge)
                      2) Development of methods (transfer of this knowledge to an applied basis)
                      3) Implementation of assistance (application of the results of scientific activity - the same doctor mentioned)
                      And in this order, since it is a unified system for any area of ​​scientific knowledge.

                      doctor, treating on the basis of techniques developed on the data of those who have nothing to do with them-sociologists, criminologists, demographers, statisticians, etc., etc.
                      Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                      Yes, they tied it up, equating it (equating - a non-Russian word?). Reread your answer:
                      consumption of other goods also increased by not 35% during this period - Meat products by 1400%, fish products by 1000%

                      Oh, so you just don't understand the word "equate"!
                      "Equalize" -recognize as equal with whom than

                      AND WHERE is this "equal"?
                      Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                      Me] You need to understand the difference between retail state trade and agriculture.
                      [You] What is this ... "difference", what are you talking about?

                      It makes no difference for you


                      Yeah, then you too: "You need to understand the difference between the number of pi and dumbbells"
                      Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                      your point 2 and 3 contradict each other. And that's not all ...
                      Since they contradict each other, the proportionality condition is violated and it turns out that production in agriculture is not proportional to the retail state sales (paragraph 1). Congratulations on the progress in establishing the truth! )) Even though you do not accept my arguments, you should already accept yours ..


                      The truth is given to you above, only it reaches you in any way, ONCE AGAIN: it grows s / x pr-in-growing and TRADEis a direct relationship
                      Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                      I probably missed it, but where did you provide a graph of sales of bread (bakery products) in units of production (loaves, rolls ... in kind, one word) for this period, so that you can see this "lead"?

                      You gave the loaves, liters-I, the time period is known: compare
                    10. Olgovich
                      Olgovich 8 October 2020 10: 37
                      0
                      Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                      why shouldn't.

                      1.For recognized as a drug:
                      GOST 18300-72

                      5.1. Ethyl alcohol is a highly flammable, colorless liquid with a characteristic odor. to hard drugs, causing first excitement, and then paralysis of the nervous system.


                      2. In YOUR society, allegedly, the social roots of drunkenness have disappeared and yes: You, after all, have completed the restructuring of the cultural structure: read your tebilov General secretaries and must, as there is, "the moral code of the builder of communism, right?" lol laughing
                      Forgotten already? They shouted about the new man and ... they soldered him like a cattle.


                      Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                      Jokes aside, that the Red and White, that the stall you mentioned, that the planet Earth as a whole shows only that the interest in alcohol is not decreasing. And this does not depend on the type of business

                      Yeah, interest only .... in 40 years should was to grow ... EIGHT times!
                      Prove it at least with the statements of scientists
                      Quote: Nefarious skeptic

                      Wild. And I directly wrote:
                      Do you want to know the degree of retail sales to the population according to the method of the discussed report?

                      No connection: in the new kiosk there will be 1000% "growth, but WHAT does this have to do with the consumption of tea per person in the country?
                      Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                      interest in alcohol does not decrease. And this does not depend on the type of business.

                      Your system stated the exact opposite.
                      In fact, complete degradation.
                      Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                      It is not clear why the starting point for you is the year, and not the natural indicator of the values ​​being compared this year.

                      Salty and hot again: values ​​and taken: from 1940 to 1980
                      Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                      1) And marijuana was excluded from the international list of substances whose release is controlled by the state according to the 1961 Single Convention?

                      marijuana = drug = alcohol.
                      Prove otherwise.
                      Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                      That kind of upbringing that is now keeping some of the people from drinking alcohol and tobacco when it is fully available. Therefore, success in eliminating alcoholism depends on upbringing, not accessibility. Whether you like it or not.

                      1. You don’t want to understand that limiting availability dramatically reduces consumption and its consequences - see. 1985 year.

                      2. Ie the fight against drugs (production and transport) -must ... stop, in your opinion ... belay requestbecause it is useless

                      There are no words ....

                      Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                      If for you the norm is that, conditionally, your son will drink FIVE-EIGHT TIMES more vodka in a year
                      If the conditional parent drank 0 liters of vodka, then the conditional child can drink at least 100 times more. This will also be 0 liters of vodka

                      It is not necessary to fasten alcohol of kefir, pastries, kvass, fruits and the like.

                      It is necessary, because he IS objectively and will NOT be in any, even your absurd version
                      Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                      Andrey, I'm not trying to hurt you, but your math is lame. This is one of the reasons why it is so difficult for us to find a common language. In our father and son example - 5 or 8 or 100 - the proportionality factor we have adopted. He transforms the father's dose into the son's dose, himself remaining the same number.

                      Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                      Andrey, I'm not trying to hurt, but you have a limp maths. This is one of the reasons why it is so difficult for us to find a common language. In our father and son example - 5 or 8 or 100 - our adopted proportionality factor. He transforms the father's dose into the son's dose, himself remaining the same number.

                      1.Timur, I have to sneeze at these stupid assessments, so don't hurt.

                      2. Zero - no

                      3. Zero should not be drunk, and even 100 times, as you tried to
                      Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                      The answer - "but this and that said / thought so" is not accepted. The question immediately arises - why then did this one and that one not say / counted 5 or 105?


                      Do not accept: it does not interest me.
                      As Nemtsov thought, open his monograph, and go ahead.
                      Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                      2) the number of children, women who do not drink is not substantiated.

                      Refute
                      Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                      no mathematical calculation has been made of the proportion of alcohol attributable to women who drink.

                      Produce
                      Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                      ) even if you do not look at items 1-3, then the "bookkeepers" got 200 bottles like this - 76 bottles were multiplied by the ratio of the total population in 1984 to 0,8 of the male population in 1984. Namely 76 * (273,8 / (128,3 * 0,8)) = 203 bottles. Losers clap their hands together. The rest are perplexed - 76 is the sum of bottles drunk by drinking men and drinking women. Therefore, the figure 200 is not worth a damn, like all such "calculations"

                      Nonsense: if even a baby / children have 76 b. vodka, if you exclude them and the elderly, it already turns out 115 b vodka, women drink much less (but there are more of them, but men are taken only 80%, then something like this will happen.
                      Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                      By the way, Nemtsov's method (consumption assessment through the assessment of violent mortality) among other methods gave the greatest overstatement Indicator


                      Not "overestimation" - there are other researchers: Sharapov, Nuzhny, Treml, Nikishin, their figures are also not much different: 14,2 liters of CHA
                      Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                      And we again deviated from the report very strongly.

                      No, we're talking about the same PROVEN fact: with a population growth of unhappy 35% (let's compare these pitiful percentages with Russia, yes), its soldering increased by 700%... In just 40 years!

                      The killers.
  • EvilLion
    EvilLion 28 September 2020 11: 06
    +2
    Whether it was under the tsar, people were getting drunk there, and they went to Paris to eat up money. This Stalin is bad, he was looking for where to get the money for industrialization.
  • Kirill Stepanov
    Kirill Stepanov 28 September 2020 12: 24
    +1
    What was left? The people went through terrible trials, almost all worked at a worthless job that did not require anything from you; lived relatively well off, and the Party really could not think of leisure for us. So everyone drank from mortal boredom and predetermined life
    1. Sugar Honeyovich
      Sugar Honeyovich 29 September 2020 15: 40
      0
      Quote: Kirill Stepanov
      and the party really couldn't come up with leisure

      Those. House of Culture (city and enterprise) or at least clubs, sports clubs, encouraging amateur performances, libraries, theaters and cinemas, parks of culture - is this not for leisure? what
  • EvilLion
    EvilLion 28 September 2020 14: 02
    +2
    Children were born even before Gorbachev, but the dry law always gives rise to mafia structures that quickly switch from alcohol to drugs, etc. People will not drink less, they will simply consume everything that burns instead of manufactured products in compliance with technology.
    1. AllBiBek
      AllBiBek 28 September 2020 15: 17
      0
      And what example of a mafia structure that emerged against the backdrop of dry laws, can you give, for example, in relation to Iran?
      And there he is the field of the Islamic Revolution.
  • Ingvar 72
    Ingvar 72 28 September 2020 19: 49
    0
    Quote: Olgovich
    Although she saved many families and lives, more children were born ..

    No, it did not save, but delayed. Prohibition tightened the elastic band of the deficit, which burst in 91. And a cheap Royal was poured into the country, selling at a price below the cost price.
    For me, this was done on purpose.
    1. Olgovich
      Olgovich 28 September 2020 19: 58
      -6
      Quote: Ingvar 72
      No, it didn't save, but delayed

      Saved for five years.

      And this is a small life.

      Just take the statistics: children were born MORE, divorces-LESS, alcoholic deaths and psychos-LESS, etc.
  • ee2100
    ee2100 28 September 2020 08: 42
    +5
    Mendeleev has nothing to do with the 40% vodka standard. There is not a single mention of vodka in his works. He investigated solutions, including water-alcohol solutions.
    When the vodka standard was introduced into RI Mendeleev was 9 years old.
  • nikvic46
    nikvic46 28 September 2020 08: 45
    +2
    At all times the state has had a monopoly on vodka, but when private companies intervene, apart from alcoholism on a large scale, there is nothing to expect.
    1. ee2100
      ee2100 28 September 2020 08: 50
      -1
      Solozhenitsin's "200 years together" describes everything well.
    2. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
      Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 28 September 2020 09: 11
      -2
      Quote: nikvic46
      But when private companies intervene, other than alcoholism on a large scale, there is nothing to expect.

      Strange logic.
  • Ua3qhp
    Ua3qhp 28 September 2020 09: 04
    +5
    there was honey (mead), for the preparation of which bee honey was used as raw material. Wort was brewed from it and after the process of fermentation and long aging, an alcoholic drink was obtained from it. The mead preparation process was lengthy, up to 10 years, and very expensive, a lot of honey was consumed, and the yield of the drink was small.

    Brad.
    Probably, in the process of brewing malt for kvass and beer, an accidental distillation of alcohol occurred.

    In the process of cooking compote, does the same accidental distillation of alcohol turn out?
    simple vodka with a strength of 23-24 ° was set on fire and burned with difficulty. After the end of the burning, no more than half of the composition should have remained in the dishes.

    If no more than half remained in the combustion process, then the alcohol in the product was less than 50-60%.
    The author does not own the material.
    I don't want to comment on this nonsense further.
    1. kalibr
      kalibr 28 September 2020 09: 18
      +6
      The founders of Marxism, Marx and Engels, loved alcohol, bought Rhynven by crates, but ... they wrote an excellent study on the harmful effects of vodka from potatoes. With statistics of murders, thefts, hits in a psychiatric hospital. Like, there was vodka made from wheat - one thing. But from potatoes - this is the harmful drinking of the people by nasty capitalists !!! But it is interesting that they wrote about vodka on petroleum alcohols? And what "capitalists" were they denounced then?
      1. BAI
        BAI 28 September 2020 10: 02
        +6
        Like, there was vodka made from wheat - one thing. But from potatoes - this is the harmful drinking of the people by nasty capitalists !!!

        And if you drive vodka not from sawdust,
        So that we had 5 bottles?
        1. kalibr
          kalibr 28 September 2020 10: 58
          +4
          Quote: BAI
          So that we had 5 bottles?

          That's it!
    2. pmkemcity
      pmkemcity 28 September 2020 09: 25
      +3
      Quote: Ua3qhp
      I don't want to comment on this nonsense further.

      ... and about two 0,75 l mugs
      fortress 15-18
      a day to a soldier, clearly too much. Order!
    3. Okolotochny
      Okolotochny 28 September 2020 15: 50
      +2
      By the way, yes. Let them try to set fire to "vodka" with a strength of 23-24 degrees. 40 degrees and it does not want to burn. 50-60 will burn, here you are right.
  • alekSASHKA-36
    alekSASHKA-36 28 September 2020 09: 25
    0
    This is contentment! What kind of soldiers will then be if they use 1,5 liters of 18 °?
    1. AllBiBek
      AllBiBek 28 September 2020 11: 07
      +4
      Well, the same Lomonosov relied on allowance, in addition to salaries and everything else, and 5 bottles of Tokay. In a day.
  • pereselenec
    pereselenec 28 September 2020 09: 26
    +4
    When and why vodka appeared in Russia

    Immediately with Mendeleev:

  • Undecim
    Undecim 28 September 2020 09: 51
    10
    Strangely enough, Poland was seriously trying to appropriate this brand, justifying this by the fact that vodka was invented and produced on its territory earlier than in Russia, since Ukraine and Belarus were part of Poland at that time.
    The case came to the International Arbitration: in 1978, a trial began for the primacy of the brand "vodka". In the USSR, there was no evidence of the origin of vodka on its territory. The Soviet historian William Pokhlebkin took up the resolution of this issue and proved that vodka is of Russian origin, it was born in the 1453th century, a hundred years earlier than in Poland, and this was due to the decline and death of the Byzantine Empire in 1982. Since XNUMX, the decision of the International Arbitration for the USSR has been assigned the priority of creating vodka as an original Russian alcoholic beverage.

    The article is an ignorant retelling of well-established myths.
    Poland has never applied to any arbitration, the International Arbitration has never fixed "vodka priority", no one ordered a study for Pokhlebkin. All this Pokhlebkin inserted into his book for the sake of "entourage".
    1. BAI
      BAI 28 September 2020 10: 12
      +4
      But there was a litigation for the Stolichnaya and Moskovskaya vodka brands. And Russia lost the Smirnov brand.
      There are many references to the 1982 International Arbitration Award. There is no text for this decision.
      1. Avior
        Avior 28 September 2020 14: 36
        +2
        but not with Poland.
      2. Astra wild
        Astra wild 28 September 2020 20: 48
        0
        I heard that "Smirnov" began to "multiply" even before the revolution and one of the options, according to the current terminology: the sub-brand, remained in Russia, and the rights to the main brand were bought by an American company and "Smirnov" is now: "Smirnoff"
        From literature and films I know that there was a popular brandy: "Shustov", but I don't know anything else. Perhaps this brand is also sold?
  • Operator
    Operator 28 September 2020 10: 08
    +6
    In vodka, the main thing is not water, but wine material for distillation - I drank the best moonshine vodka from candied honey. In second place were moonshine vodka made from rye, in third - from apples of double distillation, in fourth - from sugar.

    After moonshine vodka made from candied honey, I can't drink a stool - any store-bought vodka made from hydrolyzed alcohol.

    Gromodyane - equip yourself with moonshine still and buy rye laughing
    1. ee2100
      ee2100 28 September 2020 10: 48
      +3
      The latest offer is like a slogan for May 1st!
    2. AllBiBek
      AllBiBek 28 September 2020 11: 27
      +2
      I don’t know, honey is an extreme heterogeneity of raw materials, as it is an unpredictable mixture of complex sugars.
      Distillates from it, even after double distillation, are tart muck.
      Rectifiers - as luck would have it, sometimes they are not bad, but a hangover from this is comparable to a whiskey hangover, and it is disgusting.
      In both types of distillation, either pure glucose or pure fructose rules as the main raw material, the rest is for flavor.
      1. Operator
        Operator 28 September 2020 11: 30
        +1
        Trust me - personally drank and approve laughing
        1. AllBiBek
          AllBiBek 28 September 2020 11: 42
          +2
          I believe, but it does not fit with personal experience, I have enough moonshiners in my family with my apiaries.
          Hike, there is some kind of trick, and not one, honey is a complex raw material.
          1. Operator
            Operator 28 September 2020 11: 49
            +1
            As far as I understood from the explanation of the owners with extensive experience in home brewing from rye, apples and sugar - candied honey in a can stood for several years before distillation, this moonshine was prepared for guests at a wedding in the late USSR with restrictions on the sale of alcohol.
    3. garri-lin
      garri-lin 28 September 2020 15: 53
      0
      Try real chacha. This is when the grape cake is fermented, after draining the young wine, with the addition of a small amount of water but no added sugar. Double slow distillation.
      1. Operator
        Operator 28 September 2020 19: 16
        0
        I tried it - however, double distilled rye or apple moonshine (~ 60 degrees) is still out of competition.
        1. garri-lin
          garri-lin 28 September 2020 19: 42
          0
          I have never tasted pure rye. Only a mixture of rye and wheat. I will not judge. But the apple flavor of the original product is distinct. A bit intrusive.
          1. Operator
            Operator 28 September 2020 19: 52
            0
            Grain moonshine is always better than fruit moonshine, and rye moonshine is always better than wheat moonshine. But the main thing is double distillation (those who wish were diluted with water up to 40 degrees).

            In Soviet times, relatives brought from the village in three-liter jars of 60-degree fortress - clean as a tear laughing
            1. garri-lin
              garri-lin 28 September 2020 20: 16
              0
              I only chase fruit / berry. Most of all grape. Always double distillation and always low boiling. When boiling in a 100 liter boiler, the thickness of the product stream is thinner than a match. The second race to distill a 100 liter boiler can take up to 18-20 hours. Never drink the first 10 percent of the product of maximum strength. Only technical needs. Breeding than this is a whole science. Sometimes you have to travel 50 kilometers for spring water. 40 degrees is not enough for drinking. 52-55 is optimal. Infusions on feijoa flowers, linden blossom, mint leaves, lemon balm, currants, raspberries, have a healing effect. I honestly don't feel the difference with wheat moonshine. Maybe he's really better and cleaner. But even fruity, with proper processing, does not have a non-intrusive aftertaste of hangover consequences. I guess it depends on the manufacturer.
              1. Operator
                Operator 28 September 2020 20: 24
                0
                Just about: relatives (or rather, in-laws) in their stories focused on the subtleties of technology.

                Fruit moonshine was driven by my father from apples from the orchard already under the Russian government - also in full accordance with the technology (water from a special underground horizon), but I have already switched to imported red wines.
                1. garri-lin
                  garri-lin 28 September 2020 20: 30
                  0
                  Wine. Always preferred. But the pressure from them has been rising for the last 10 years. I can use no more than a glass. Did the moonshine that his father drove from apples have a slightly obtrusive apple flavor? Not easy but intrusive.
                  1. Ingvar 72
                    Ingvar 72 28 September 2020 20: 48
                    0
                    Quote: garri-lin
                    Did the moonshine that his father drove from apples have a slightly obtrusive apple flavor? Not easy but intrusive.

                    Taste and smell are found either in the heads or in the tails. If you cut it off in time, there will be no obsessive taste. It is difficult to do this on a conventional distiller; on a mash or rectification column it is easier. hi
                    1. garri-lin
                      garri-lin 28 September 2020 21: 22
                      0
                      If you drive slowly, then exactly the top goes first, they are rubbed. Then the product. After falling below 40 degrees, it is again not in the product. In re-distillation. Or peeling with an egg or milk. For subsequent distillation. For drinking I admit only distillation. I consider rekhtifirat not a product but a chemical industry. Of course I do not refuse the shop, but I only drink homemade with pleasure.
                      1. Ingvar 72
                        Ingvar 72 28 September 2020 21: 36
                        -1
                        Quote: garri-lin
                        rub them

                        I do not advise, there is often an allergic reaction. Google the composition of the heads, there is terrible muck.
                        The rectification column is easy to play and can be used in any capacity.
                      2. garri-lin
                        garri-lin 28 September 2020 22: 06
                        0
                        It is also elementary cleaned with an egg. This greatly softens and does not remove the degree. Various kinds of infusions for external use do not need a crystal clear base.
                2. Operator
                  Operator 28 September 2020 20: 50
                  +1
                  It seems to have remained.

                  Red wine should be drunk at lunch with a good meat dish, ideally a steak with blood.

                  It is high time for you, the producers of high-quality strong moonshine made from natural products, to self-organize into an autonomous non-profit organization for the development of domestic distillation with local brands, cooperative stores, payment of excise taxes, etc. Our climate in Russia is too cold (with the exception of the Crimea and the Caucasus), but optimal conditions for growing varietal grain.

                  And it is not necessary to chase volumes and super profits: small vineyards with small volumes of vintage wine production are very common abroad - for the soul, so to speak.
                  1. garri-lin
                    garri-lin 28 September 2020 21: 18
                    +1
                    Personally, I am a modest private trader. I produce for my own family consumption and gifts to friends and relatives. In the most fruitful years I produce up to 500 liters of wine and up to 200 liters of moonshine. Where with such scanty quantities will be combined. But larger farms may well. As soon as it organizes itself into a more or less profitable business, even if it is scattered over a large area, the state will lay its hands on it. Excise and durable will raise the price by at least half. And this is a decrease in sales. Those who are now buying home wines for 250-350 rubles for a polish ruble will hardly agree to pay 500.
                    1. Operator
                      Operator 28 September 2020 21: 25
                      +1
                      I would buy over the Internet (with an excise stamp and a product barcode, as it should be now) and would also recommend to my friends who are addicted to farm products (I am not).
                    2. garri-lin
                      garri-lin 28 September 2020 21: 30
                      +1
                      I will never trust sending wine to the mail or delivery services. A couple of hours will ride in the sun and khan's tastes. NedoMadera will work. The same is with freezing in the cold season. The wine will freeze a little and the taste deteriorates. Our mail is not worthy to deliver such a capricious product.
                    3. Operator
                      Operator 28 September 2020 21: 33
                      +1
                      That, by the way, is the task for ANO - to organize an adequate wine transfer service.
                    4. garri-lin
                      garri-lin 28 September 2020 22: 03
                      0
                      Dreams Dreams. On the other hand, for many it would be a hobby that generates income.
                    5. Operator
                      Operator 28 September 2020 22: 54
                      +1
                      Not only personal income, but also the meaning of life for pensioners who find it difficult to compete with young people in modern professions, ousting foreign alcohol and "stool" vodkas from the market, increasing exports, additional budget revenues, etc. etc.
                    6. garri-lin
                      garri-lin 28 September 2020 23: 30
                      0
                      But a mature thought turns out. In the 90s, many pensioners drove that very stool from everything that could wander. And thus at least somehow saved themselves from starvation. Revive everything at a civilized level. There are hundreds of whiskey distilleries in Scotland and Ireland. Hundreds of varieties with a production of a couple thousand bottles a year. In Russia, a huge amount of various tinctures, liqueurs and the like were originally prepared. There is something to roam with.
                    7. Operator
                      Operator 29 September 2020 01: 08
                      +1
                      If the entrance threshold into the branded alcohol business is 2000 bottles per year (from 1 to 1,5 tons), then in our conditions it is several tens of thousands of local producers and about a billion rubles of excise taxes to the budget - in the conditions of the economic crisis, there are significant welds.
  • Ingvar 72
    Ingvar 72 28 September 2020 19: 59
    -1
    Quote: Operator
    however rye

    Barley is better, less obtrusive taste and smell.
    1. Operator
      Operator 28 September 2020 20: 05
      +1
      I have never tried it - the relatives did not sow barley on their personal plot.

      PS I stopped drinking grain moonshine after I went to Spain and tasted local red wines + authentic Khvanchkara bought in Georgia.
      1. Ingvar 72
        Ingvar 72 28 September 2020 20: 43
        -1
        I also like good wines, you can find both Moldovan and Krasnodar ones. And of course the Georgian ones, if they are real. Khvanchkara is most often counterfeited by the way, and in the majority in Georgia. And by the way, the Georgian forgeries are of pretty good quality.
        1. Operator
          Operator 28 September 2020 20: 54
          +1
          Friends know where to buy khvanchkara in Georgia.

          It is also advisable to buy Spanish wines in Spain - especially in the countryside.
          1. kalibr
            kalibr 29 September 2020 11: 21
            0
            Oh, Andrey! What a wonderful wine they make at the Palafols cooperative, next to the ruins of a 13th century castle: red, white and rosé. While there were 14 days only it and drank in turn ... If you suddenly see where we have, and in Moscow, maybe, Moscow, after all - take it, you will not regret it!
            1. Operator
              Operator 29 September 2020 11: 38
              +1
              Unfortunately, Palafolls wine must be bought in Palafolls itself (well, or ordered by mail, if possible), otherwise, as soon as they taste it here, they will immediately begin to forge laughing
              1. kalibr
                kalibr 29 September 2020 11: 42
                0
                Quote: Operator
                so immediately start to fake

                Alas. Was in Taman at a winery on the outskirts of the city. I saw the French guilt "Chateau Tamagne", which took him to France for blending. And he drank ... Then he returned home and drank the same wine in Penza ... Hmm !. Then I was again in Taman at the same plant. "Why is it so with you and us ... so!" "On the way, the wine is diluted with water from the column ..." "But the seal!" "You live in Russia ..." That's the whole story! Now you have to go to Taman again and just for the wine? Alas!
                1. Operator
                  Operator 29 September 2020 11: 49
                  +1
                  So I say - we need a specialized express delivery of vintage wines and localized spirits using a trade barcode that uniquely identifies each bottle.
                2. kalibr
                  kalibr 29 September 2020 12: 02
                  0
                  Quote: Operator
                  you need a specialized express delivery of vintage wines and localized spirits using a commodity barcode that uniquely identifies each bottle.

                  Yes, this is a great idea and a good option for a good business! I would do if I were younger ...
                3. Operator
                  Operator 29 September 2020 13: 01
                  -1
                  Unfortunately, I am an official (in a broad sense, a back office employee), so I have no desire for business.
                4. kalibr
                  kalibr 29 September 2020 13: 57
                  0
                  Quote: Operator
                  that's why I have no passion for business.

                  Yes, I also have no special. Now ... And when I was young, I didn’t do anything!
  • Ua3qhp
    Ua3qhp 29 September 2020 15: 57
    0
    Why cake, we are not used to saving. I drive from grape wine. Cognac turns out.
    1. garri-lin
      garri-lin 29 September 2020 16: 36
      0
      The difference is small. The sugar content of the cake is quite enough for fermentation, and the quality does not suffer. Making good wine and distilling it into chacha is not entirely logical. And cognac needs aging in the right casks.
      1. Ua3qhp
        Ua3qhp 30 September 2020 17: 39
        0
        The quality of the wine is not good enough. And in the form of cognac it is. The oak grows 30 meters away. It is not necessary to make a barrel; you can do with a glass jar and oak slats.
        1. garri-lin
          garri-lin 30 September 2020 18: 58
          0
          You cannot get normal chacha from spoiled wine. It takes a long time to remove the taste and there is a lot of waste. Cognac is a wine alcohol aged for at least 3 years in a barrel in which dry wine was aged before. Ordinary oak chips are indispensable.
          1. Ua3qhp
            Ua3qhp 30 September 2020 19: 42
            0
            I am not saying that the wine is spoiled. I don't like the taste. Three years of aging is like a cold basement. The process is faster at room temperature. In principle, a three-star analogue is obtained in 3-4 months.
            1. garri-lin
              garri-lin 30 September 2020 20: 29
              0
              Well, if the taste is bad, then okay. But this is an extreme case. Nobody makes wine specially for distillation. And I disagree about the time of insisting. Time is time and time again.
  • Gvardeetz77
    Gvardeetz77 28 September 2020 10: 30
    +4
    Quote: Olgovich
    creation of vodka as an original Russian alcoholic beverage.

    Doubtful "achievement", alas ...

    Why a dubious, normal achievement. Rum, whiskey, sake and other "national" countries "inventors" are quite proud of themselves and do not sprinkle ashes on their heads "oh what are we alcoholics"
  • Dym71
    Dym71 28 September 2020 11: 07
    +3
    The strength of vodka was determined in a very original way, the concept of "semi-tar" was introduced, simple vodka with a strength of 23-24 ° was set on fire and burned with difficulty. After the end of the burning, no more than half of the composition should have remained in the dishes.

    Author, at least try to set fire to a drink with a strength of 23-24 °, and so that half of it burns out ... recourse
    To recognize a high-quality product, bread wine was set on fire and if exactly half burned out, such a drink was considered standard and was called a half-bar.

    Polugar is the standard of those times:
    “... In that barrel, taking a small tin pile, what are the samples sent with marks which mean the parts by how much the pile is divided, and fill it with that wine, pour it into a small iron or copper ladle, and heat the wine, light it and let it burn until it goes out and it won't burn anymore, and the remnants of that burnt wine should be poured back into the pile again, and to look at the marks, half of it has burned out, or more or less from the whole pile, how many has gone ... " And if "he takes into account the amount of water remaining for many more than half of the burning", then such wine "cannot be taken at expensive statutory prices."
  • Dym71
    Dym71 28 September 2020 11: 42
    +3
    simple vodka with a strength of 23-24 ° was set on fire

    23-24 ° this is most likely a fortress according to Hess

    table
    1. garri-lin
      garri-lin 28 September 2020 15: 58
      +2
      Hess is the end of the 19th century. And here the speech was about earlier times.
      1. Dym71
        Dym71 28 September 2020 16: 01
        +1
        Quote: garri-lin
        Hess is the end of the 19th century. And here the speech was about earlier times.

        In this case, my options for a fortress at 23-24 ° are over. hi
        1. garri-lin
          garri-lin 28 September 2020 16: 17
          +3
          A maximum of 35 37 degrees is lit. Everything that is weaker does not burn and does not set fire to it unambiguously. Moonshine for over 20 years.
  • iouris
    iouris 28 September 2020 12: 23
    -1
    The military-economic side of the problem of the state monopoly on the production and sale of alcoholic beverages has not been disclosed.
    Let me remind you that in the USSR, vodka is the main consumer product, which gave a lot of money to the state budget. The cost of a liter of alcohol is 28 ... 40 kopecks. The average selling price of 0,5 liters of vodka is 450 kopecks. Where do the profits from the turnover of alcohol, drugs, tobacco go?
  • Undecim
    Undecim 28 September 2020 13: 11
    +7
    He began his research with a description of ancient Russian alcoholic beverages, such as honey (mead), kvass and beer.
    It should be noted that in Russia the most ancient alcoholic drink since the XNUMXth century was honey (mead)
    The oldest known alcoholic beverage in Russia was birch, obtained from birch sap fermenting in the heat.
    At the same time, a similar technology appeared in Russia in a completely different area - tar-smoking, obtaining tar by dry distillation of the resin of pine and birch wood, which assumed the removal of tar and tar through gutters into another tank. These troughs gave rise to the idea of ​​pipes in distillation for the removal of distillation products. So tar-making gave birth to the idea of ​​distilling with pipes and cooling, which could not have been born in mead or beer brewing. The resin was “expelled” from the tree, so moonshine is not brewed today, but “driven”.
    Another ignorant "revelation" of Pokhlebkin, picked up by the same ignorant dilettantes-humanitarians. According to this "discovery", it turns out that in dense Russia they never heard of such a process as distillation, which was already known to the Babylonians. And the information that Irish monks are driving whiskey to Russia could not get to Russia for three hundred years.
    And for the information of the humanities. Tar smoking is pyrolysis and distillation is distillation.
    Distillation is a process based on the difference in boiling points between the components of a mixture.
    Pyrolysis is the thermal decomposition of organic and inorganic compounds.
  • AIR
    AIR 28 September 2020 13: 31
    0
    And I liked the article. Something that I would question ... But in general, many measures and names that are lost in everyday life, I have explained for myself. Regarding the recipes, it's certainly a matter of taste! I personally drink fruit spirits with pleasure. I have an apple orchard, there is nowhere to put apples. I distill them into alcohol. I can always please my friends with a quality drink. Moreover, now the price of vodka has a horse price tag. The price of the product received is 10 times different from the store rectified ...
    1. Ingvar 72
      Ingvar 72 28 September 2020 20: 00
      +1
      Quote: AVIA
      Moreover, now the price of vodka has a horse price tag

      And a very questionable quality.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • pyc.arpeccop tornado 150
    pyc.arpeccop tornado 150 28 September 2020 15: 34
    0
    The process is clearly borrowed, for a Russian person, in terms of his physical capabilities, is not able to perceive increased doses of alcohol without a long-term latter for his health. It all began, of course, in Poland, as evidenced by Wikipedia. But, there are features of promoting this product to Russia.
    Among the Middle Eastern peoples, and in particular among the Simits, acquaintance with alcohol, due to the peculiarities of their settlement, was much stronger than among the Slavs. Muslims have developed a religious barrier against alcohol consumption in their midst. The Jews do not like him either, but the goyim are not forbidden to consume alcohol.
    Of course, the addictive ones were used for business, so the Simite diaspora, living in compact sowing, could not help but adopt the method of distillation of alcohol, invented by them, or maybe local. Well, and later the drink penetrated into Russia. But only in the Russian Empire, after the annexation of Poland, its rapid advance to consumers began through distilleries, whose owners were mostly recent inhabitants of the settled zones from the western periphery.
    1. Dym71
      Dym71 28 September 2020 16: 18
      +1
      Quote: pyc.arpeccop tornado 150
      Muslims have developed a religious barrier against alcohol consumption in their midst. The Jews don't like him either.

      However, in the photo, the product is clearly not made for the goyim:
      1. pyc.arpeccop tornado 150
        pyc.arpeccop tornado 150 28 September 2020 18: 17
        +1
        For ... shabez goy. Well, Paysak guys are also rolling, judging by the viral pictures.
    2. Dym71
      Dym71 28 September 2020 16: 21
      +1
      Quote: pyc.arpeccop tornado 150
      The process is clearly borrowed

      Certainly
      Quote: pyc.arpeccop tornado 150
      for a Russian person, according to his physical capabilities, is not able to accept increased doses of alcohol without long-term last for his health. It all began of course in Poland

      How does a Russian (in terms of his physical capabilities) differ from a Pole? belay
      1. pyc.arpeccop tornado 150
        pyc.arpeccop tornado 150 28 September 2020 18: 16
        +1
        Russian is no different from a Pole. We are talking about peoples who had free access to fruit sugar and its fermentation products in the past. In particular, the Simites living in Poland had (have) a genetically larger and more varied amount of enzymes in the intestinal-digestive system, capable of neutralizing intoxication caused by excessive consumption of high-alcoholic alcohol. Muscat varieties are now grown in the occupied Syrian Golan Heights in the Crimea and Tuapse and are now exotic, the same as, say, the vineyards of table grape varieties in the Kaliningrad region.
  • Region-25.rus
    Region-25.rus 28 September 2020 15: 54
    +1
    For example, high-quality Stolichnaya vodka could be produced only in Kuibyshev, where natural water, unique in its composition, was used in its preparation.
    ... I confirm !!! Apparently it was her that I drank, once, in an export version. And in China, in some expensive bar. One "drink" (for two fingers) cost three dollars. Well, I nod to the bartender - "they charged a pier for a drink", he charges and wants to throw ice BUT (!) ... apparently my expression made me freeze, there was already a raised hand. Then, when I sipped this drink, the face of the Chinese was already stretched out. Then, when I poured everything into my mouth and held it (then I realized the full depth of the expression "delicious vodka"), the eyes of the bar attendant began to take a rounded shape. She was really tasty (dear). Alas, I have not tried this again (((Even "Smirnoff" somewhere in Japan was already not the same ((((The result - I finished off what was in the bottle), and the last - the fifth was due to the establishment . City of Dalian (China) 2003-th year drinks
  • Old26
    Old26 28 September 2020 16: 53
    +3
    Quote: ASAD
    As vodka began to distill moonshine according to coupons, with a good apparatus you can make decent drinks! I only use grain.

    Moonshine was driven before that. But mostly for myself, high quality. But during the "struggle with her, with her mother" they sometimes drove all sorts of rubbish, the main thing is to get stronger

    Quote: pmkemcity
    Quote: Olgovich
    the youth. In 1925 there were 18% of those drinking under 16,6 years old, in our time - up to 95% ("Young Communist", 1975, No. 9, pp. 102-103)

    Until the age of 23, I did not drink at all, and among my circle there were 100% of them. Maybe it was different among the "Young Communists"?

    I first tasted wine at someone's birthday when I was 14-15 years old, one or two glasses of dry wine. But from 18, at the institute - there "went like a suit"

    Quote: garri-lin
    Try real chacha. This is when the grape cake is fermented, after draining the young wine, with the addition of a small amount of water but no added sugar. Double slow distillation.

    I tried it. And that way, in 2018, he brought it to friends from Abkhazia. There, the seller had a battery of bottles of chacha made from various ingredients, miniature plastic cups and a box of grapes for a snack. I asked for the one that I ordered. The seller was surprised how to buy it and not try it. Tried laughing
    1. garri-lin
      garri-lin 28 September 2020 20: 24
      +1
      I will disappoint you. Since there are many friends in Abkhazia and I know what they sell there, you are most likely diluted alcohol with the addition of Amchkvarash. This is a weak aromatic moonshine that goes last when distilling chacha. The strength is 30 degrees, but the aroma is peculiar. Most of the traders in the markets of Gagra, Ritsensky gorge, Pitsunda do not sell real chacha. It is simply unrealistic to produce so much.
  • Old26
    Old26 28 September 2020 16: 54
    +2
    Quote: Region-25.rus
    I confirm !!! Apparently it was her that I drank, once, in an export version.

    My colleague had a pocket calendar that way in 87-88. Against the background of flames and ice cubes - two bottles - Stolichnaya and Posolskaya, EMNIP. And the inscription: "ONLY VODKA FROM RUSSIA - REAL RUSSIAN VODKA"
  • pyc.arpeccop tornado 150
    pyc.arpeccop tornado 150 28 September 2020 17: 45
    +1
    So tar-making gave birth to the idea of ​​distilling with pipes and cooling, which could not have been born in mead or beer brewing. The resin was “expelled” from the tree, therefore moonshine is not boiled today, but “driven”.

    Steam is driven along the coil to cool it. Mash is brewed. Mead and Brewing does not involve high-alcohol drinks.
  • Petr Vladimirovich
    Petr Vladimirovich 28 September 2020 17: 53
    +1
    Interesting, thanks!
  • parusnik
    parusnik 28 September 2020 18: 14
    +3
    laughing The article is nothing special, a set of conjectures. Comments are cool.
  • depressant
    depressant 28 September 2020 18: 16
    +1
    Imagine, I always knew what a "quarter" is. Grandma had such a hefty 3-liter bottle. In the Kuban, "quarter" was widely used. It was used to store moonshine, which had the meaning of currency. Maybe even now someone has preserved these bottles)))
  • dgonni
    dgonni 28 September 2020 18: 46
    +2
    History confirms that the introduction of Prohibition leads to unrest and, in neglected cases, to the collapse of the state!
    1. depressant
      depressant 28 September 2020 20: 18
      +1
      Father drove chacha from grape pomace. After the second run, the chacha gained strength of 70 degrees. It could only be consumed in small glasses, with a hearty snack, in between long table conversations. In our house there were many such feasts - retirees gathered and acting officers from the military unit. There was a time...
  • Old26
    Old26 28 September 2020 20: 30
    +1
    Quote: garri-lin
    I will disappoint you. Since there are many friends in Abkhazia and I know what they sell there, you are most likely diluted alcohol with the addition of Amchkvarash. This is a weak aromatic moonshine that goes last when distilling chacha. The strength is 30 degrees, but the aroma is peculiar. Most of the traders in the markets of Gagra, Ritsensky gorge, Pitsunda do not sell real chacha. It is simply unrealistic to produce so much.

    I will not argue, but the fortress is still more than 40 degrees. And what exactly is HZ. I also drank Georgian. much difference, if I honestly did not notice, not a gourmet
  • bk0010
    bk0010 28 September 2020 20: 59
    0
    And, which is typical, not a single comment like "What is this article doing on the military site ?! What does it have to do with the army ?!"
  • militarist63
    militarist63 28 September 2020 23: 14
    -1
    Cognitively stated! good
  • Parvis rasulov
    Parvis rasulov 28 September 2020 23: 33
    0
    Vodka is a biological weapon and that says it all and the rest is nonsense
  • Lynx2000
    Lynx2000 29 September 2020 10: 29
    +1
    what
    The recipe for making mead with yeast and the addition of sugar is relatively recent - the 19th century, speeds up the process.
    Previously, berries or bee pollen were added for fermentation (pollen made from honeycombs). In this case, after fermentation and straining, for ripening, pour into an opaque vessel, and, at least for six months, ripen in the cellar. It turns out amber semi-sweet, longer - semi-dry.
  • Sugar Honeyovich
    Sugar Honeyovich 29 September 2020 15: 54
    0
    In the 1,23th century, instead of a foot, they tried to introduce a Western European measure - a damask (XNUMX l), but it did not take root

    It got accustomed and how. Only not in the 12,3th, but in the 2th century. And before, as with many peoples, a binary - the most convenient - system was used. A bucket (4 liters) was divided into 8 half buckets = 16 "quarters" = 32 "mugs" ("mug" - in everyday life - "octopus", from the XNUMXth century under German influence - "shtof") = XNUMX "bottles" = XNUMX "kosushki" / "scale"
    Later, there was also a damask in 0,1 buckets (1,23 l. - "decimal") in parallel with the "octagonal". Both shtoffs were divided into two bottles - 1/16 of a bucket (0,769l.) - ("measured", then "wine") bottle and 1/20 of a (0,615l. - "commercial", later "vodka" or "Beer") bottle. Bottles were also divided in half - into containers of 1/32 buckets (0,384 liters) and 1/40 buckets (0,3075 liters). One of these measures was called "kosushka", and the other - "scale".
    In the "Regulations on Weights and Measures" of 1899, the bucket was finally equated to 10 shtoffs, a damask - to 10 cups, a cup - to 2 scales. Also, a damask was equal to two vodka / beer bottles, a bottle - two kosushki (forty, quarters, etc.). In addition, the bucket was 4 quarters, a quarter was 4 wine bottles.
  • timur1968
    timur1968 29 September 2020 16: 09
    0
    the author pulled from the Internet all sorts of crap like "The strength of vodka was determined in a very original way, the concept of" semi-tar "was introduced, simple vodka with a strength of 23-24 ° was set on fire and burned with difficulty." There is a mistake on a mistake he has ...
    As for Mr. Pokhlebkin and his works, I recommend everyone to get acquainted with the research and the book by Boris Rodionov "The History of Russian Vodka from Half a Year to the Present". There, many of Pokhlebkin's findings and conclusions are reasonably refuted.
  • Viktor Sergeev
    Viktor Sergeev 30 September 2020 08: 32
    0
    What nonsense about Mendeleev? He was studying the process of mixing alcohol and water, as a result of which the volume of the final product is less than the components and has nothing to do with 40%.
    Ideal is 42-43 degrees (tongue receptors "freeze" and drink easier), and 40% is a simple compromise between the cost of strength.
    Vodka was originally moonshine (distillate) and only recently it was turned into rectified - a cheap poison.
  • Ua3qhp
    Ua3qhp 1 October 2020 11: 48
    0
    Quote: garri-lin
    Time is time and time again.

    Who is against, but this requires a long history of production. I do not have it yet.
  • kig
    kig 2 October 2020 07: 50
    0
    Everything is very simple. And at the same time, not everything is so simple. And it was like this:

  • fif21
    fif21 5 October 2020 20: 08
    0
    Animation in the hall! Alconauts sing in unison an ode to poison. hi