Military Review

SKSHU "Kavkaz-2020", or the Black Sea defeat of the Russian fleet

357

Sadly, but this is the best illustration of what is happening.


On September 26, the Kavkaz-2020 strategic command and staff exercise (MSCHU) ends. It makes sense to compare the realities of the naval component of these exercises with the way they are covered by the Ministry of Defense, more precisely, the Department of Information and Mass Communications of the Ministry of Defense - DIMK MO under the direction of Colonel General I. Konashenkov (hereinafter referred to as the Department of Konashenkov). This comparison is good for both the teachings and the way in which they are reported.

Let's compare. Konashenkov's Department:

The Kavkaz-2020 strategic command and staff exercise will be held from September 21 to September 26, 2020 at the internal ranges of the Southern Military District: Prudboy, Ashuluk, Kapustin Yar, ground aviation Arzgirskiy and Kopanskaya landfills, as well as in the waters of the Black and Caspian Seas.
To practice joint actions as part of groupings of troops (forces), military formations from Armenia, Belarus, China, Myanmar and Pakistan were invited to the exercise. Representatives of Azerbaijan, Indonesia, Iran, Kazakhstan, Tajikistan and Sri Lanka are planning to participate as observers.
In total, it is planned to attract about 2020 thousand people to the Kavkaz-80 command and control squadron (including formations and units of combat, logistic and technical support, as well as formations of air defense, the Navy and special forces (Rosgvardia and the Ministry of Emergency Situations). military units subject to the Vienna Document 2011, in the exercise, conducted under the unified operational command, will be up to 12 thousand 900 servicemen. In practical actions of troops (forces) at training ranges will involve up to 250 tanks, up to 450 infantry fighting vehicles and armored personnel carriers, up to 200 artillery systems and multiple launch rocket systems.

In order to avoid accusations of defamation, I will further quote literally the official information messages of the Ministry of Defense (Konashenkov's Department) with their necessary comments.

Demonstration of US power


On the eve of the Kavkaz-2020 command and control squadron, three US Air Force B-52 Stratofortress bombers conducted exercises over the territory of Ukraine, while flying at a distance of less than 40 km from the Black Sea coast of Crimea. During the exercise, according to the General Staff of the Russian Federation, the bombers practiced the use of cruise missiles (CR) at targets on the territory of the Russian Federation.

Obviously, this was another show of strength with a long preceding list, where we were shown:
- delivering strikes by the KR to ground targets;
- striking anti-ship missiles against sea targets (including the latest LRASM);
- carrying out massive mine laying.

Regular "visits" of anti-submarine P-8 Poseidon sharply raise the issue of the combat stability of our submarines (in fact, it is relatively safe, they can only charge batteries "under their own shore").

Currently, the US Navy destroyer DDG-80 Roosevelt is deployed in the Black Sea, which on the eve of the exercises withdrew to the coast of Bulgaria.

The composition of the naval participants



Konashenkov's Department:

More than 2020 ships and boats perform tasks at sea within the framework of the Kavkaz-20 command and control system fleet, including: the flagship of the Black Sea Fleet, the guards missile cruiser Moskva, the Pytlivy patrol ship, the Vyshny Volochek and Orekhovo-Zuevo small missile ships, the Caesar Kunikov, Azov and Novocherkassk large landing ships, missile boats "Naberezhnye Chelny", "Ivanovets", "Shuya" and "R-60", as well as a missile hovercraft "Samum".

As will be shown below, this list is far from complete, and DIMK "will try very hard to correct it."

"Virtual Members"


Department of information support of the Black Sea region (Sevastopol):

In the course of ... "Kavkaz-2020" command and control squadron, the naval aviation of the Black Sea Fleet in the Black Sea has worked out the delivery of ammunition and food to the warships that are crossing by sea and anchored.
In particular, the crew of the patrol ship "Vasily Bykov", together with the pilots, worked out the reception and transfer of cargo at sea.
During the initial stage of the exercise, the crew of the Ka-27PS helicopter flew around the ship, hovered over the helipad and took the load with the help of a winch. Then the pilots worked out the transportation of cargo on an external sling and its delivery to the ship in a non-stop way.

Given that "Vasily Bykov" is currently in the Northern Fleet (where it is not clear what is involved)Such "official information" of the Ministry of Defense can cause nothing but bewilderment and laughter.

However, this is only the beginning, then, according to the official information of the Konashenkov Department, the naval aviation included ... the Su-34 naval aviation planes!

Which, of course, would be very correct, but, alas, it has nothing to do with reality.

The minesweeper "Vladimir Yemelyanov", located in the Baltic, at the same time "successfully took out the ships of the Black Sea Fleet with trawls."

"A mighty fleet has gone out to sea, a trawler is ahead ..."


Press Service of the Southern Military District:

More than 20 warships of the Black Sea Fleet (Black Sea Fleet) went to sea at the initial stage of the Kavkaz-2020 strategic command and staff exercise (SCSHU). During the first stage of the exercise, the crews carried out the setting and overcoming of minefields and performed a set of anti-submarine missions.
Mine defense ships "Vladimir Yemelyanov" and "Ivan Antonov" conducted a reconnaissance search and destruction of the minefield with contact and non-contact trawls, after which the sea minesweepers "Valentin Pikul" and "Vice-Admiral Zakharyin" carried out the escort of surface ships and a submarine behind the trawls from by forcing a conventional minefield.

As mentioned above, "Vladimir Emelyanov" is currently in the Baltic. However, in this official announcement (!), The use of the new minesweepers-seekers of the Black Sea Fleet "Ivan Antonov" and "Vice-Admiral Zakharyin" (equipped with modern hydroacoustics and underwater vehicles) draws upon themselves for the long-obsolete belly crawling over mines with trawls. In the case of real hostilities, this is clearly the sending of minesweepers (and other) ships for slaughter.

A serious question arises about the level of tactical and operational training of the Black Sea Fleet command and control bodies, the formation of ships and, in general, their ability with such "training" (yes, in quotes) to solve tasks as intended.

It is appropriate to recall the message of the Department of Konashenkov about the combat service of the minesweeper "Vice-Admiral Zakharyin":

06.08.2020/XNUMX/XNUMX: "Vice-Admiral Zakharyin", performing tasks as part of the permanent group of the Navy in the Mediterranean ... during the training, the crew searched for mines in the designated sea area using various types of contact and non-contact trawls.

"Zakharyin" is a minesweeper-finder, armed with a specialized GAS "Livadia" and a complex with an underwater vehicle TNPA "Mayevka", and such a ship can search for "mines by trawls" only if the GAS and TNPA are malfunctioning. A logical question arises: how many more naval ships are in combat service with faulty hydroacoustics and the main weapon system?

Anti-submarine comedy


Konashenkov's Department:

At the next stage of the command and control squadron, the ship search and strike group (KPUG) consisting of the small anti-submarine ships Muromets, Suzdalets, Kasimov and Yeysk worked out the tasks of searching for and destroying a simulated enemy submarine in a combined method with laying mines and using anti-submarine weapons.


The combination of such completely different samples of underwater weapons as mines and anti-submarine weapons (ASW) within one episode is not even absolute incompetence, but something more ...


Konashenkov's Department:

The episode ended with a bilateral exercise involving the crew of the Kolpino submarine, which attacked the ships of the KPUG, and the crews of the small anti-submarine ships, in turn, performed torpedo firing to destroy the submarine of the imaginary enemy. The ships searched for the submarine in cooperation with a pair of Be-12 amphibious aircraft and a pair of Ka-27PL anti-submarine helicopters from the naval aviation and air defense of the Black Sea Fleet.


The first thing to note is the absolute antediluvia of the torpedo weapons of the Black Sea Fleet surface ships. Specifically, SET-65, the last modification of which is equipped with homing equipment, "reproduced on a domestic base" from the equipment of the Mk46 mod.1 torpedo (1961), caught in 1965 by our fishermen. And these weapons are not only small anti-submarine ships (where they have long lost the skills of using standard remote-controlled torpedoes), but also the "newest" frigates of Project 11356.

It is correct to call such "weapon" firewood, and its real effectiveness in modern conditions is in the region of zero.

There is not a single ship with the new "Packet" on the Black Sea Fleet (just as not a single ship has been upgraded for the "Packet"), and this is in the fleet, which has been really solving combat missions for many years!

The Be-12 aircraft indicated in the DIMK message do not have anything anti-submarine at all, and can interact with anti-submarine ships only through the eyes of the crew and bombs (at the level of the First World War). The Ka-27PL helicopters are outdated long ago and have extremely low efficiency against modern submarines.

At the same time, an aircraft repair plant is being destroyed in Sevastopol, capable of repairing not only the Ka-27, but also the Mi-14, on which modern powerful low-frequency low-frequency hydroacoustic stations could be installed today.

Leaky Fleet Umbrella



Konashenkov's Department:

The crews of the Black Sea Fleet (Black Sea Fleet) ships conducted rocket and artillery firing at air targets as part of the Kavkaz-2020 strategic command and staff exercise (SCSHU).
The ship strike group (KUG) consisting of the Pytlivy patrol ship and the Samum air-cushion missile ship successfully repelled the air attack means of the simulated enemy, using anti-aircraft missile weapons on the target together with anti-aircraft artillery.
The combat crews of the KUG destroyed in the air a target missile launched by the crew of the Suzdalets small anti-submarine ship (MPK).
Artillery fire was also carried out at target missiles, which were launched from two small anti-submarine ships "Muromets" and "Suzdalets".
The combat crews of the missile and artillery warheads of the crews of the guards missile cruiser Moskva, small missile ships Vyshny Volochek and Orekhovo-Zuevo, four missile boats Naberezhnye Chelny, Ivanovets, Shuya and R-60 were destroyed target missiles at a safe distance.
In turn, the shipborne search and strike group (KPUG) consisting of the Kasimov and Yeisk MPKs worked out the tasks of using the Osa anti-aircraft missile system to destroy the air attack weapons of the imaginary enemy.
As air targets, special aircraft small-sized targets dropped from Be-12 amphibious aircraft from the Naval Aviation and the Black Sea Fleet Air Defense were used.

The conclusions from this are extremely disappointing.

The “Osa-M” air defense missile systems (“Saman” target) and parachute targets dropped from the aircraft were used as “targets”. These "means of imitation" (in quotation marks) in no way can imitate not only real raids, but also such an old and "typical" target as the anti-ship missile system "Harpoon".

Moreover, firing at the RM-24 target (converted into an Uranium anti-ship missile target) in 2016 in the Black Sea Fleet showed that the fleet is simply afraid to shoot at such targets (not to get a turbojet engine on board in the event of a miss and accidental deviation from the trajectory), specially "driving" the target into the water at the far border of the SAM engagement zone (information from the round table on the air defense of naval ships at IMDS-2019).

What will happen to the ships of the Black Sea Fleet in the event of a real use of anti-ship missiles on them can be shown by some episodes from the exercises of the Navy. For example, during the anti-aircraft missile firing of the Varyag missile cruiser (equipped with the Fort air defense system) in 1994 and 2011. not a single target was shot down by him.

Link.

Landing on the bottom


Konashenkov's Department:

The forces of the Black Sea Fleet carried out preparations for the amphibious assault in the Vityazevskaya Spit area during the main stage of the Kavkaz-2020 command and control squadron
A ship sweeping group of the Black Sea Fleet consisting of minesweepers "Kovrovets", "Vice-Admiral Zakharyin" and "Valentin Pikul", base minesweepers "Caesar Kunnikov" and "Yamal" carried out the escort of the landing party through the minefields.

As already mentioned above, walking with trawls belly through a minefield in real combat will mean the deliberate killing of both minesweepers and other ships (in this case, amphibious assault ships).

It is quite surprising to see among the "minesweepers" (according to official information from DIMK) landing ships "Caesar Kunikov" and "Yamal", unless they were just performing the task of breaking a minefield (sad joke). However, after the anti-submarine creativity with the "combined use of mines and anti-submarine weapons" there is nothing to be surprised about ...

Leaky blockade



Konashenkov's Department:

Within the framework of the Kavkaz-2020 strategic command and staff exercise (SCHU), ships of the Black Sea Fleet (BSF) blocked conditional sea supply channels for illegal armed formations of international terrorist organizations on the Black Sea coast of Krasnodar Territory.
During this stage of the exercise, the crews of the patrol ships "Pavel Derzhavin" and "Dmitry Rogachev", together with the crews of anti-sabotage boats, worked together to search for and total destruction of enemy surface assets trying to deliver ammunition and food to the shore for terrorists.


“Total destruction” is probably good. But it's nice to be able to do it in reality. Especially when the speeds of a large number of boats (potential intruders) significantly exceed the speeds of both anti-landing boats and patrol ships ...

Standard boats BL-680 are also weak and do not differ in speed qualities.

The DShL armored boat has very serious restrictions on seaworthiness, both on its own speed (speed), and, if possible, on the slip of a patrol ship.

Helicopter? Yes it is possible. If the weather is good. And then the patrol ships begin to have restrictions on it (due to the small displacement and many tasks, it was not possible to place the stabilizers on them).

There remain coastal helicopters and boats and the Coast Guard's PSKR (which, unlike the Navy, pursues a much more sane technical policy and has effective tools for solving these problems).

However, taking into account the fact that the "Pavel Derzhavin" patrol ship participated (allegedly participated) in the "blockade" (this is the official information of the Ministry of Defense!), Which has not yet been adopted by the Navy, the number of "participating" patrol ships can be safely included on the stocks "Victor the Great" and "Sergey Kotov".

Enemy at the gate



Taking into account the scale and significance of the command and control squadron, a logical question arises: which of the Black Sea Fleet ships is tracking the DDG-80 Roosevelt destroyer located nearby?

Our media usually cheerfully report on such "surveillance". The only problem is that in most cases it was carried out by ships, which could only do this with the permission of the so-called partners. Simply because their speed is low (and these are patrol ships of project 22160, MRK of project 22361 "Buyan-M", medium reconnaissance ships of project 18280). I really want to hope that this time a really high-speed ship (for example, a Project 11356 frigate) was allocated to track the US Navy destroyer, which could reliably and rigidly block the "guest".

Where will our beautiful rockets go?


SKSHU "Kavkaz-2020", or the Black Sea defeat of the Russian fleet

Konashenkov's Department:

Coastal missile systems "Ball" and "Bastion" of the Black Sea Fleet destroyed the ships of the imaginary enemy during the command and control command "Kavkaz-2020"
The ships and aircraft of the Black Sea Fleet destroyed a detachment of enemy ships with a missile strike within the framework of the Caucasus-2020 exercises, the press service of the Black Sea Fleet reports.
During the Kavkaz-2020 strategic command and staff exercise, the Ivanovets and R-60 missile boats of the Black Sea Fleet (Black Sea Fleet) carried out rocket firing at a detachment of combat ships (OBK) of a simulated enemy in cooperation with naval aircraft and air defense


Our missiles are good, but in order to hit them, you need good target designation (otherwise it may turn out "like in 2008" or much worse). And here is a very important issue - aviation.

DIMK did not provide data on the Black Sea Fleet, but here is the ratio of "ships and aircraft" declared by it for the Kavkaz-2020 command and control system for the Caspian: in total, about 2020 warships and support vessels are involved in the Kavkaz-40 command and control system, over 400 units armored and automobile equipment, more than 3 thousand servicemen of formations and military units of the Caspian Flotilla, as well as 10 aircraft.

10 aircraft is not even funny or sad. This is scary. From what will happen to our fleet in a real war.

USSR Navy exercises. The ratio of "ships and aircraft" is quite indicative:

- exercises of the Northern Fleet "North 68" - about 300 warships and ships (of which 80 are submarines) and about 500 aircraft;
- Exercise of the USSR Navy "Ocean" (1970) - only in the far zone there were 80 submarines (of which 15 are nuclear), 84 surface ships and 45 auxiliary ships, aviation - 8 regiments (14 regiment sorties), that is, at least 300– 400 aircraft. In total, aviation carried out 5,5 thousand sorties, 752 refueling with the transfer of 4 thousand tons of fuel.

Comments are superfluous.

Zvezda TV channel:

The Kalibr cruise missile hit a coastal target 2020 nautical miles away during the Caucasus-XNUMX exercises in the Black Sea. The launch was carried out by the crew of the Kolpino submarine.
Cruise missile launches are a key element at the naval stage of the Caucasus and the main indicator of the combat training of sailors and submariners of the Black Sea Fleet.

It is worth mentioning here a recent comment by an old and experienced submariner on some indicators of this combat training:

I had a chance here the other day to talk with a "real modern" submariner ... from "Varshavyanka", which is undergoing repairs at the LAO before "throwing to the south." The young man serves under a contract on the BP-13. Arrived ... with a young lady, tightly puffing out her cheeks. The conversation was short-lived, but revealing.
1. This "specialist" failed to correctly name the caliber of his TA. For some reason, I kept pushing the number 800 ...
2. On "Varshavyanka" on BG-2 (combat readiness No. 2), the watch in the first compartment is carried out exclusively by torpedoists, who, among other things, control the state of the AB (battery). In addition, they "sit on the AB" and during its charge. Such a young man could not name either the type of AB or the nominal density of its electrolyte.
3. Moreover, the warrior could not explain at all what “density” is, although he claimed that he had finished school.

Is there any positive?

Yes, absolutely. But this is about other types of armed forces. For example, look at the TASS message:

During the Kavkaz-2020 exercises, special attention will be paid to the fight against cruise missiles and unmanned aerial vehicles, fire and radio-electronic impact on the entire depth of the formation of the enemy's battle formation, the use of vertical coverage by tactical airborne assault forces, a rapid transition from one type of combat to to another, ”the Defense Ministry said in a statement.


Sad result


Alas, almost everything that the Navy conducted in the Kavkaz-2020 command and control squad was not just a show, but in fact discredited the very concept of “combat training”.

If the army and the Air Force, albeit with serious problems, are actually fighting and preparing to fight in the new conditions, the Navy is in a state of "maybe there will be no war."

With such an attitude to the matter, in the event of real combat operations against a somewhat prepared and technically equipped enemy, defeat awaits him.

Materials used:

https://function.mil.ru/
https://zvezdaweekly.ru/
http://nvs.rpf.ru/
http://www.balancer.ru

All used photos are taken from the site https://function.mil.ru/ tagged "Caucasus-2020".
Author:
Photos used:
Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation
357 comments
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  1. WILL
    WILL 28 September 2020 10: 04 New
    -70 qualifying.
    Chief, it's all gone! The plaster is removed, the client leaves (c) C / f The Diamond Arm.
    Looked at the author of the article ... didn't even finish reading!
    This citizen has already buried all four Fleets and one Fleet! But ... rumors about their death are somewhat exaggerated (c) Mark Twain.
    1. Kronos
      Kronos 28 September 2020 10: 08 New
      85
      Yes, a normal article without hurray patrism
      1. ccsr
        ccsr 28 September 2020 13: 50 New
        -13 qualifying.
        Quote: Kronos
        Yes, a normal article without hurray patrism

        Well, what is normal about it, if the author presses on propaganda statement Ministry of Defense:
        Strategic command and staff exercise "Caucasus-2020" will be held from September 21 to 26, 2020 at the internal training grounds of the Southern Military District: Prudboy, Ashuluk, Kapustin Yar, Arzgirsky and Kopanskaya air training grounds, as well as in the waters of the Black and Caspian Seas.
        To practice joint actions As part of the groupings of troops (forces), military formations from Armenia, Belarus, China, Myanmar and Pakistan were invited to the exercise. Representatives of Azerbaijan, Indonesia, Iran, Kazakhstan, Tajikistan and Sri Lanka are planning to participate as observers.

        How do you imagine the STRATEGIC doctrine of such a group and, most importantly, against whom - the author of the article clearly did not think about this issue. In general, for the propaganda event, the author has already given a full opinion on the state of our armed forces - well done, you can't say anything ...
        By the way, B-52s flew to our borders in Soviet times in much larger numbers and more often - this will be confirmed by anyone who served in the Moscow Air Defense District, because there, at least a couple of times in a week, all combat crews were raised as soon as bombers flew to the Kola Peninsula ...
        As for the rhetorical question of the author of the article
        Taking into account the scale and significance of the command and control squadron, a logical question arises: which of the Black Sea Fleet ships is tracking the DDG-80 Roosevelt destroyer located nearby?
        , then this question does not cause anything but a smile, therefore it is not particularly necessary to track it by ships, tk. there are naval ground reconnaissance units R and RTR and reconnaissance aircraft of the Black Sea Fleet, which already control this ship around the clock.
        In general, the set of horror stories about this exercise cannot be taken seriously, you just need to be able to distinguish between the true strategic exercises of our strategic nuclear forces and demonstration performances for different countries, about how we will smash the enemy if he decides to cross our land border. I think any military professional understands that there is no such scenario in the plans of the US Army and NATO armies - they will simply be afraid of their losses, as it was in Yugoslavia. So not everything was lost while our strategic nuclear forces are on duty.
        1. demo
          demo 28 September 2020 15: 15 New
          11
          By the way, B-52s flew to our borders in Soviet times in much larger numbers and more often - this will be confirmed by anyone who served in the Moscow Air Defense District, because there, at least a couple of times in a week, all combat crews were raised as soon as bombers flew to the Kola Peninsula ...
          Even to me - not a military man and an elderly person, it is clear that the B52s that flew in the late 90s are at least 1000 km from the heart of the country - Moscow, and their weapons, unlike today, were not so modern.
          And the possibility of a retaliatory strike by the country (USSR) was not comparable to today's (RF).
          But you don't need to be afraid anyway! soldier
          1. ccsr
            ccsr 28 September 2020 19: 40 New
            -6
            Quote: demo
            Even to me - not a military man and an elderly person, it is clear that the B52s that flew in the late 90s are at least 1000 km from the heart of the country - Moscow, and their weapons, unlike today, were not so modern.

            You are simply not aware of the weapons of the American bombers of that time, including the range of their cruise missiles, which at that time reached such a range that they did not need to enter our air defense zone:


            Modifications AGM-86A
            AGM-86B
            AGM-86C CALCM
            AGM86-D CALCM
            Main Specifications
            Launch range: 2780 km (1200 km for CALCM Block I / IA)
            Average speed: 800 km / h
            Warhead:
            * W80-1, thermonuclear, 5-150 kt, 123 kg
            * high-explosive fragmentation, 540-1450 kg (from configuration)
            Quote: demo
            And the possibility of a retaliatory strike by the country (USSR) was not comparable to today's (RF).

            Why do we need to destroy America several times, if, according to their own estimates, even 100 nuclear warheads of a megaton level reaching their territory will bring them unacceptable damage. And 200-300 charges will generally erase their civilization. Why then should we have several thousand strategic warheads, as it was during the Soviet era?
            1. bk0010
              bk0010 29 September 2020 12: 02 New
              +8
              Quote: ccsr
              Why do we need to destroy America several times, if, according to their own estimates, even 100 nuclear warheads of a megaton level reaching their territory will bring them unacceptable damage.
              There are no megaton-level charges, all switched to charges of 150-200 kT for cities and 0.5-0.7 MT for missile silos. The megaton-level charges were required to compensate for the CEP of 4-5 km, improving the hitting accuracy to the CEP of 0.5 km made it possible to switch from a monoblock megaton warhead to warheads with several warheads of lower power.
              Quote: ccsr
              And 200-300 charges will generally erase their civilization.
              Absolutely not. In the worst case, 200-300 cities will die. It won't stop the war.
              Quote: ccsr
              Why then should we have several thousand strategic warheads, as it was during the Soviet era?
              1. For each target, you should have 2 warheads from different carriers. There are many, many goals. Much more than 1550 heads that we have now. There are more than 13.5 thousand airfields in the USA. Yes, most of them have no military value, but there are a lot of serious ones. 2. In case they are late with a counter-strike. Nobody guarantees the destruction of more than 95% of the nuclear potential. Therefore, if the remaining 5% is enough to evaporate the enemy, then no one will contact you. Under Brezhnev, we got 30000-40000 BB, 5% of them - this is exactly what we have now.
              1. ccsr
                ccsr 29 September 2020 12: 44 New
                0
                Quote: bk0010
                There are no megaton-level charges, all switched to charges of 150-200 kT for cities and 0.5-0.7 MT for missile silos.

                0,7 MT is the megaton level. But the point is not in one charge of 150-200 kt, but in the fact that there may be several of them, and the total charge will all be at the level of megatons early. However, this is still a trifle, because the general calculation is based on the total charge, which we can do with one start.
                Quote: bk0010
                The megaton-level charges were required to compensate for the CEP of 4-5 km, improving the hitting accuracy to the CEP of 0.5 km made it possible to switch from a monoblock megaton warhead to warheads with several warheads of lower power.

                These charges were primarily needed in order to erase the enemy's cities, and then the KVO did not particularly bother with the word at all.
                Quote: bk0010
                Absolutely not. In the worst case, 200-300 cities will die. It won't stop the war.

                Explain this to everyone using the example of Beirut, where the explosion of 2,7 thousand tons of saltpeter paralyzed the life of the country.
                The war will lose its meaning with such losses - the example of Leninakan and the earthquake in Armenia will help you.
                Quote: bk0010
                ... For each target, you should have 2 warheads from different carriers. There are many, many goals. Much more than 1550 heads that we have now. There are more than 13.5 thousand airfields in the USA.

                You seem to have a poor idea of ​​how cities are being destroyed, what kind of panic arises and what consequences of environmental disasters occur. Let me remind you that after the liberation of Kuwait from Iraqi troops, fires were extinguished there for almost two years. Do you think nothing of this will happen after nuclear strikes?
                Quote: bk0010
                Under Brezhnev, we had 30000-40000 BB,

                Firstly, this is the number of all nuclear charges, including tactical ones. And secondly, according to various estimates, there were 6 to 7,5 strategic nuclear charges, so the current nuclear power should not be greatly underestimated - I believe that it is quite enough to destroy the United States or China.
                1. Ryusey
                  Ryusey 29 September 2020 17: 27 New
                  0
                  You are very mistaken.
            2. Omskgasmyas
              Omskgasmyas 29 September 2020 19: 24 New
              0
              You have an error. В1В turned out to be unsuitable for delivering long-range missile launchers and is used for training purposes to fear the enemy by throwing conventional bombs on the heads of the enemy with rudimentary air defense. The carrier of the CD is the old, but unkind B-52.
              1. ccsr
                ccsr 29 September 2020 19: 39 New
                +1
                Quote: Omskgazmyas
                You have an error. В1В turned out to be unsuitable for delivering long-range missile launchers and is used for training purposes to fear the enemy by throwing conventional bombs on the heads of the enemy with rudimentary air defense.

                In fact, this is a thirty-year-old reference book, and then B1B were used specifically for the delivery of CR. So there is no mistake - the concept of the Americans has changed since then, B1B flights turned out to be too expensive, so they abandoned it.
                Quote: Omskgazmyas
                The carrier of the CD is the old, but unkind B-52.

                And then he was used for this - no one denies it. The cost of flights is decisive in this case.
              2. Sergey Sfiedu
                Sergey Sfiedu 29 September 2020 20: 15 New
                +2
                B-! B could well carry the ACLM, but at the same time it did not show any special advantages over the B-52, and given the end of the Cold War, this role was abandoned. But now the B-1B is being modernized according to the new KR - JASM -ER and LRASM-ER. - these are non-nuclear missiles, since the United States is now focusing its attention on non-nuclear conflicts.
                1. Bersaglieri
                  Bersaglieri 29 September 2020 21: 51 New
                  0
                  I couldn't - the compartments are too short :)
            3. Bersaglieri
              Bersaglieri 29 September 2020 21: 51 New
              0
              The B-1B never had axes. And SRAM-2x12 on two "revolvers" - until 1990 they were.
              1. ccsr
                ccsr 30 September 2020 11: 37 New
                +1
                Quote: Bersaglieri
                The B-1B never had axes. And SRAM-2x12 on two "revolvers" - until 1990 they were.

                This is not entirely true:
                Theoretically, the bomber could also carry strategic cruise missiles AGM-86B and AGM-129A. To accommodate the latter, Starting with the serial N8 aircraft, all B-1B bombers were equipped with nodes for the installation of six twin ventral pylons designed to carry 12 missiles, and the corresponding wiring. However, the U.S. Air Force refused to arm this type of aircraft with cruise missiles, and at present there are no suspension units and other equipment providing the use of the KR on B-1B aircraft.

                https://topwar.ru/3617-bombardirovshhik-b-1b-lancer.html
                And how, then, should we take our word for it that the Americans will not be able to hang AGM-1B cruise missiles from the B-86B? In my time, just before 1990, there were no naive ones - since there is a technical possibility to suspend a CD, it means that in a threatened period they will definitely do it.
                1. Bersaglieri
                  Bersaglieri 1 October 2020 12: 04 New
                  0
                  In theory. The external pylons are ok, but in the original we are talking about the internal fuselage MPUs. The same as with the Tu-95MSM: the Kh-101 does not fit on the MPU, it is longer than the Kh-55. Because the suspension is only on the "horns"
            4. Fizik M
              Fizik M 3 October 2020 10: 36 New
              0
              Quote: ccsr
              You are simply not aware of the weapons of American bombers



              36 "Harpoons"?!?!? belay
              ccsr (ccsr), you it, let's stop DRUGGING lol
          2. vlad106
            vlad106 1 October 2020 15: 39 New
            -1
            Quote: demo
            By the way, B-52s flew to our borders in Soviet times in much larger numbers and more often - this will be confirmed by anyone who served in the Moscow Air Defense District, because there, at least a couple of times in a week, all combat crews were raised as soon as bombers flew to the Kola Peninsula ...
            Even to me - not a military man and an elderly person, it is clear that the B52s that flew in the late 90s are at least 1000 km from the heart of the country - Moscow, and their weapons, unlike today, were not so modern.
            And the possibility of a retaliatory strike by the country (USSR) was not comparable to today's ... ( soldier


            The feeling that traitors and traitors are everywhere above ..
            who have already prepared to flee from Russia, buying and registering real estate abroad for their relatives, sending their children there to study and live on opening accounts in foreign banks
        2. timokhin-aa
          28 September 2020 18: 47 New
          +7
          then this question does not cause anything but a smile, therefore it is not particularly necessary to track it by ships, tk. there are naval ground reconnaissance units R and RTR and reconnaissance aircraft of the Black Sea Fleet, which already control this ship around the clock.


          Bullshit.

          I think any military professional


          Well, this is not for you. So, just in case, the exercises were used to force Azerbaijan to peace in conditions when Comrade Erdogan was harnessed to him.
          In terms of the actions of the Ground Forces and the Airborne Forces, it turned out well, especially the landing forces were successful, the ZRV and the Aerospace Forces, well, let's put it ambiguously, and the fleet - as in the article.
          1. ccsr
            ccsr 28 September 2020 19: 13 New
            -3
            Quote: timokhin-aa
            Bullshit.

            You have never seen a single intelligence report, but you are already deciding who is talking nonsense and who is not. Read Strelbitsky's essay, in which he tells how the BF radio station in 1941 tracked German ships in Belarus:
            Since Tykotin was removed from the then "border of friendship" with Germany by about a hundred kilometers, the BRP-5 continued to function even after the actual start of hostilities in the Great Patriotic War. This is evidenced by 18 corresponding entries made in the "Journal of the KBF reconnaissance direction" for June 22 - 29, 1941. Getting in touch with the Detachment about once every two hours, in just 35 first hours of the Great Patriotic War, the BRP-5 sailors tracked at sea about two dozen ships of Germany, Finland and Sweden (including 9 submarines, the flagship of the Finnish fleet - the coastal battleship defense "Ilmarinen" and at least 8 more surface warships of various classes), as well as 12 aircraft in the air and a number of aviation radio stations that worked from the ground. The most valuable radio interception should be recognized at 11.02 a.m. on the first day of the war, when the German radio station on the island of Rügen reported in detail about the two minefields placed by the Kriegsmarine ships in the Baltic Sea and about the clear navigable fairways along the coast of Germany.

            1. Old tanker
              Old tanker 29 September 2020 07: 19 New
              -3
              Neighing. Thanks. And then with humor, we have recently been tense. But you are great!
              1. ccsr
                ccsr 29 September 2020 11: 44 New
                -4
                Quote: Old Tankman
                Neighing. Thanks. And then with humor, we have recently been tense. But you are great!

                About what neighing then tell. Or are you one of those about whom they say "Show him your finger, he will laugh."
            2. timokhin-aa
              29 September 2020 12: 27 New
              +3
              These are things of bygone days, since then many have learned the word "radio silence". No radar stations work, highly directional satellite communication + lights. At least take a look.

              In general, don't write nonsense.
              1. ccsr
                ccsr 29 September 2020 13: 06 New
                +1
                Quote: timokhin-aa
                These are things of bygone days, since then many have learned the word "radio silence".

                There is no need to bend - several times a day, at least obligatory test sessions are carried out, and even in the warning networks, if the ship is at sea.
                Quote: timokhin-aa
                No radar stations work, highly directional satellite communication + lights. At least take a look.

                A combat ship on a campaign or on duty with the radar off? I don’t believe it, because any terrorist on a light airplane or a scow will destroy it.
                Quote: timokhin-aa
                In general, don't write nonsense.

                In general, you are still that "professional" in this matter, but I will just remind you that even a reconnaissance aircraft can easily calculate such a mass of metal as a ship, as well as reconnaissance satellites that probe the surface or conduct a combined survey of objects.
                1. timokhin-aa
                  29 September 2020 14: 09 New
                  0
                  You are simply not in the subject, hence the self-confidence.

                  https://www.crfs.com/applicationstory/naval-emcon-emissions-control/
                  1. ccsr
                    ccsr 29 September 2020 18: 55 New
                    +1
                    Quote: timokhin-aa
                    You are simply not in the subject, hence the self-confidence.

                    You are simply illiterate in this matter, and you don’t know that the daily intelligence report of the BF came to us in the GSVG, where the coordinates of ALL NATO missile carrier ships were marked both in the Baltic and in the North Sea. And that was in Soviet times. Where did you come from with such knowledge to teach those who understand this better than you?
                    1. timokhin-aa
                      30 September 2020 11: 47 New
                      +1
                      to us at GSVG


                      At best you served in some security company there.
                      1. ccsr
                        ccsr 30 September 2020 13: 13 New
                        -1
                        Quote: timokhin-aa
                        At best you served in some security company there.

                        You are an ordinary naval verbiage, who even did not serve in the headquarters of a surface ship (or submarine) division, and this can be seen from the rhetoric that you are cleverly trying to present to service people. Relax, not everyone who writes here understands you less in military affairs, and you simply have not grown to the level of some, which is why people laugh at your quirks. By the way, smart guy, do you even know who is allowed to the intelligence reports of the fleet in the Ground Forces?
                      2. timokhin-aa
                        30 September 2020 18: 30 New
                        0
                        Relax, not everyone who writes here understands you less in military affairs, and you simply have not grown to the level of some, which is why people laugh at your quirks.


                        Like a secret warrant officer from the GSVG, yeah.
                  2. Fizik M
                    Fizik M 3 October 2020 10: 45 New
                    -1
                    Quote: ccsr
                    to us in the GSVG, the BF daily intelligence report came, where the coordinates of ALL NATO missile carrier ships were marked both in the Baltic and in the North Sea

                    YOU LIES
                    starting with real intelligence capabilities
                    and ending with questions of HRT (for the provision of such information "to everyone in a row" (like YOU wassat ) is nothing more than "disclosure")
                    Quote: ccsr
                    to teach those who understand this better than you?

                    Monsieur, YOU do not know or understand anything at all
                    just fucking stupidly
                    1. ccsr
                      ccsr 3 October 2020 14: 49 New
                      +1
                      Quote: Fizik M
                      YOU LIES

                      Those. you are not in a position to refute anything - I did not expect anything else from the next verbiage. And in order to prove this, I quote your text:
                      it is not only intercepted, but also "chokes"
                      and the reality was already in the 80s

                      Now tell us how much time it took in the eighties to take the direction finding of radio emission in the HF range, what is the approximate duration of command and control signals or short messages, in order not only to detect, but also to suppress a kilowatt ship transmitter.
                      monsieur, just one example
                      when shooting "Topol" "in Hawaii" (this year is about 2005), the comment of "the corresponding comrades" from "Krylov" was: "in the radio networks of tactical interaction of the United States SILENT" (despite the fact that they actually worked)

                      Firstly, your example for amateurs, because even if all means of communication were turned off, which I strongly doubt, the operation of the radar is still detected by the orbital group.
                      Secondly, the fact that the naval intelligence officers missed the Pacific Fleet does not mean that they did not see a shit in Kupavna either. So you will tell your grandmother your fairy tales, I see a great wizard to do it.
                    2. Fizik M
                      Fizik M 3 October 2020 17: 01 New
                      0
                      Quote: ccsr
                      Those. you are not in a position to refute anything - I did not expect anything else from the next verbiage. And to prove it, I bring your tex

                      Monsieur, I had arguments
                      EXHAUSTIVE
                      YOU are a sharper, because what YOU are trying to quote refers to ANOTHER (but YOU also did it there)
                      Quote: ccsr
                      Now tell us how much time it took in the eighties to take the direction finding of radio emission in the HF range, what is the approximate duration of command and control signals or short messages, in order not only to detect, but also to suppress a kilowatt ship transmitter.

                      1. I do not submit to provocateurs (I mean "technical details")
                      2. Briefly, already in the year 87, from the Norwegian Sea RDOs via Integral came to the communication centers of the Northern Fleet with a "crushed tail". Officers (of any specialty of the Navy, since this is the course of the VVMU) the parameters are known. But the "Shark" did not have time to crush.
                      Quote: ccsr
                      Firstly, your example for amateurs, because even if all means of communication were turned off, which I strongly doubt, the operation of the radar is still detected by the orbital group.

                      YOU absolutely fool
                      the work of the radar "splits" RTR!
                      and I wrote about the RR - the tactical interaction network of the US Navy
                      or YOU even don’t represent the difference between PP and RTR? lol
                      Quote: ccsr
                      Secondly, the fact that the naval intelligence officers missed the Pacific Fleet does not mean that they did not see a shit in Kupavna either.

                      fool
                      I just have a question - you are absolutely uncle fool ?
                      or for you "the Earth is flat" and the radio horizon does not exist?
                    3. ccsr
                      ccsr 3 October 2020 18: 36 New
                      0
                      Quote: Fizik M
                      Monsieur, I had arguments
                      EXHAUSTIVE

                      There was childish babble, from which I understood that our naval "expert" had no idea about the possibilities of direction finding in the 80s.
                      Quote: Fizik M
                      1. I do not submit to provocateurs (I mean "technical details")

                      Because there is no knowledge - I already understood that.
                      Quote: Fizik M
                      Briefly, already in the year 87, RDOs from the Norwegian Sea via Integral came to the communication centers of the Northern Fleet with a "crushed tail".

                      Don't whistle, smart guy - give the duration of the message to begin with.
                      Quote: Fizik M
                      the work of the radar "splits" RTR!

                      Radio reconnaissance is carried out in a comprehensive manner by all forces and means - this is apparently unaware to you "naval specialists", as well as the fact that since the 60s the Navy had its own intelligence satellites. For a start, read V. Kiknadze, "theorist", or at worst M. Boltunov, maybe you will see.
                      Quote: Fizik M
                      and I wrote about the RR - the tactical interaction network of the US Navy

                      Who cares about them, smart guy, if a completely different level of networks is being monitored - everything is clear with you, verbiage. Moreover, who told you that these networks are not taken by intelligence satellites?
                      Quote: Fizik M
                      or YOU even don’t represent the difference between PP and RTR?

                      You definitely had nothing to do with intelligence ships. And with me were ground officers who had well-deserved signs "For a long march" - you have not come across such. So you will tell others your tales - "You will answer me for Ural!", As the hero of the film "Brother-2" would say ....
                    4. Fizik M
                      Fizik M 3 October 2020 19: 00 New
                      0
                      Quote: ccsr
                      There was childish babble, from which I understood that our naval "expert" had no idea about the possibilities of direction finding in the 80s.

                      fool
                      Are you there "quite that"?
                      and here are the "possibilities of direction finding" (about which YOU are a dense ignoramus, who thinks that "the Earth is flat"), if I told YOU about HRT issues!?!?
                      Quote: ccsr
                      Don't whistle, smart guy - give the duration of the message to begin with.

                      ONCE AGAIN - I DO NOT SERVE TO PROVOCATORS
                      these figures in the public domain did not "shine"
                      although in fact no "secret" for the enemy was presented even then


                      Quote: ccsr
                      since the 60s, the Navy had its own intelligence satellites

                      AGAIN
                      despite the fact that this is "not my profile", on my "one" I did not miss a single CD session with the MCRC

                      so YOUR ACHINA wassat please grandchildren tongue

                      Quote: ccsr
                      V. Kiknadze for the beginning

                      this is who plagiarist (and "defended" in the "bushes")? lol
                      Quote: ccsr
                      the worst end of M. Boltunov

                      well yes, Boltunov - this is just YOUR "level" laughing

                      Quote: ccsr
                      Who cares about them, smart guy, if a completely different level of networks is being monitored

                      fool
                      RYAL AKI HORSE crying
                      CONTINUE pliz laughing

                      Quote: ccsr
                      who told you that these networks are not taken by intelligence satellites?

                      for this, you need to have equipment on the satellite at least close in level to the ship's


                      Quote: ccsr
                      And with me were ground officers

                      Monsieur, taking into account the fact that YOU ARE CONFUSED IN BASIC CONCEPTS (RR and RTR), I fully agree with Timokhin that YOU served in the Western Group of Forces at most "ensign Zadov"

                      laughing

                      PS
                      so what about the Ledovskys' "facts"?
                      eh?
                      or YOU "as usual" - "piled a bunch" - and "into the bushes"?
                    5. ccsr
                      ccsr 4 October 2020 11: 15 New
                      +1
                      Quote: Fizik M
                      ONCE AGAIN - I DO NOT SERVE TO PROVOCATORS
                      these figures in the public domain did not "shine"
                      although in fact no "secret" for the enemy was presented even then

                      Relax, smart guy - after the collapse of the USSR, almost all materials that related to the 80s of the last century were known to the enemy. So if you are not in the subject, then do not pretend to be a tough specialist.
                      Quote: Fizik M
                      for this, you need to have equipment on the satellite at least close in level to the ship's

                      There, more advanced equipment is placed, and the humidity on the satellites does not play a role, unlike the weight - learn materiel, verbiage ...
                      Quote: Fizik M
                      so what about the Ledovskys' "facts"?

                      Find out from him, he is from your fleet. After the destruction of the "Ural", all the naval commanders fell greatly in my eyes, and even your level "specialists" do not impress me at all, but you keep on burning ...
                    6. Fizik M
                      Fizik M 4 October 2020 14: 32 New
                      0
                      Warrant Officer Zadov!
                      Quote: ccsr
                      after the collapse of the USSR, practically all materials related to the 80s of the last century were known to the enemy. So if you are not in the subject, then do not pretend to be a tough specialist.

                      1. NOT ALL
                      2. Specifically, these numbers have not been a secret for the enemy since the beginning of the 80s (the beginning of the "Integral", and the "Shark" is generally "the greatest achievement of the Navy of the 50s").
                      3. Nevertheless, these figures relate to the topic of CLOSED COMMUNICATION, and there is such a concept (well known to ALL "admitted and worked" to secret topics (to which YOU obviously do not belong) as "disclosure on FORMAL BASES".
                      4. Taking into account the fact that these figures for "I" and "A" were not publicly available, and the documentation for "I" and "A" was not "freely sold", then YOUR VIZG about "putting these numbers" can be assessed only unambiguously. Once again - I DO NOT GIVE TO PROVOCATORS
                      Quote: ccsr
                      There, more advanced equipment is placed, and the humidity on the satellites does not play a role,

                      GOST RV acc. open (according to WWF)
                      technical parameters acc. on a public resource and with ensign Zadov, I do not intend to discuss
                      Quote: ccsr
                      Find out from him

                      Chtd
                      YOU, ensign of Zadova, banal and deceitful TRAP, unable to answer for your nonsense
                      Quote: ccsr
                      After the destruction of the Ural, all the naval commanders fell heavily in my eyes,

                      Ensign Zadov, you got "pushed to the fullest" for "Ural" back at the Base. Repeat this here? Or are you like "back in the bushes" with Ledovsky?
                    7. ccsr
                      ccsr 4 October 2020 16: 55 New
                      0
                      Quote: Fizik M
                      1. NOT ALL

                      You're lying verbiage - a large number of former officers and generals turned out to be outside Russia, which means that there can be no question of any safety of the state secrets of the Soviet period.
                      Quote: Fizik M
                      you were "pushed in full" for "Ural" back at the Base. Repeat this here?

                      Repeat, verbiage - everyone will see that you are a complete layman in this matter.
                      By the word "mine" they flooded from the airbase much earlier than me - so first present evidence that it was done incorrectly, since you invite everyone to believe the author.
                    8. Fizik M
                      Fizik M 5 October 2020 09: 42 New
                      -2
                      Quote: ccsr
                      a large number of former officers and generals turned out to be outside Russia, which means that there can be no talk of any safety of the state secrets of the Soviet period.

                      Well, here's the ensign of Zadova And you took off your "pants" and "took off" (more precisely, "lifted your skirt")
                      because not a single person who really worked on a closed topic like ACHINEA would write
                      acc. YOUR level was "there" - the maximum is to bring a box of stew and chop the onion to the officers lol
                      Quote: ccsr
                      Repeat, verbiage - everyone will see that you are a complete layman in this matter.

                      Zadova, YOU only on this page have already "successfully merged" THREE TIMES lol
                      YOU are nobody and to call YOU in any way that I would "matal beads" for YOU any significant time.
                      However, YOU have an "option" - WRITE A PROSPECTIVE ARTICLE ABOUT "URAL" - TO REPEAT THIS JACKY THAT YOU ALREADY HAVE ON THE BASE
                      After that, I PROMISE EXAMPLE SPACKING in a response article wink
                      Quote: ccsr
                      By the way, "mine" was floated from the airbase much earlier than me

                      а I have nothing to be ashamed of (unlike YOU)
                      I am ready to confirm and substantiate everything I have said (including there)
                      и Unlike the rats from the Base, I do not overwhelm or hide posts in a cowardly way
                    9. ccsr
                      ccsr 5 October 2020 14: 56 New
                      0
                      Quote: Fizik M
                      WRITE A PROSPECTIVE ARTICLE ABOUT "URAL" - TO REPEAT THIS JACKY THAT YOU ALREADY HAVE ON THE BASE

                      The strategic reconnaissance ship "Ural" is far ahead of its time and is unique even for today. And only because of the stupidity and greediness of the naval commanders, this unique ship was destroyed, and this shame will forever be a stigma for people like you. It is because of the ignorance of people like you and your kind that a unique ship was destroyed, and you are here powdering our brains about some mines and torpedoes. Eh you, village, high technology is not for people like you "flared", only the streets are able to sweep people like you ...
                    10. Fizik M
                      Fizik M 5 October 2020 17: 15 New
                      -1
                      Quote: ccsr
                      The strategic reconnaissance ship Ural is far ahead of its time

                      SINGLE SENSE he "far overtaken"
                      more precisely - it was an example of when not "the Armed Forces for the country", but the country existed and worked sometimes for the whims and delusional "wanted" bureaucrats from the Armed Forces and the defense industry
                      Quote: ccsr
                      And only because of the stupidity and greediness of the naval chiefs, this unique ship was destroyed

                      fool
                      Ensign Zadova!


                      1. Instead of it, according to cost (and production costs), it was possible to build ABM ("dimensions of ShdG")
                      2. The Navy "for some reason" kept "Krylov" (and not only because he is a KIK)
                      3. Proceeding from the "rat logic" of the "rear" the Navy had to pay for the crazy wishlist of the "third-party organization" even in the hardest 90s, so what happens?

                      Quote: ccsr
                      It is because of ignorance of people like you and your kind that a unique ship was destroyed

                      Zadova, from among those who you "pushed" at the Base there were several Commanders of the RZK of the Navy on it, and one of them is extremely successful and effective (I mean "reconnaissance")
                    11. ccsr
                      ccsr 5 October 2020 19: 22 New
                      0
                      Quote: Fizik M
                      and the country existed and worked at times for the whims and delusional "wishes" of bureaucrats from the Armed Forces and the defense industry

                      You are definitely illiterate - it was the demands of the country's leadership that served as the reason for the creation of the "Ural", and not because it was necessary for the country's military-industrial complex or the naval commanders.
                      Quote: Fizik M
                      1. Instead, at cost

                      Relax teapot - the cost of the "Ural" was several times less than the cost of any cruiser of that time, but the benefits from it in peacetime were more than from any cruiser.

                      Quote: Fizik M
                      2. The Navy "for some reason" kept "Krylov" (and not only because he is a KIK)

                      What a wretched thing you are - "Ural" was ordered for military intelligence, and "Krylov" is an ordinary naval KIK, you showed your illiteracy here, too. it is immediately evident that you do not even understand the purpose of the ships.
                      Quote: Fizik M
                      so what happens?

                      It turned out that the naval vessels proved to be dense in all respects related to high technologies - the fate of the Ural only proved this.
                      Quote: Fizik M
                      at the Base there were several Commanders of the RZK of the Navy on it, and one of them was extremely successful and effective (I mean "reconnaissance")

                      I did not see such people there, however, I have known for a long time that there are many big talkers among the navy. So don't wave the "airbase" too much, there one "Cap" showed what shit they cooked in Sevastopol, and you danced there to his tune.
                    12. Fizik M
                      Fizik M 6 October 2020 11: 26 New
                      -1
                      Quote: ccsr
                      it was the demands of the country's leadership that served as the reason for the creation of the "Ural", and not because the military-industrial complex of the country

                      Ensign Zadova, YOU do not pretend to be "rags"!
                      At https://topwar.ru/155207-statusnyj-tupik.html
                      there is a quote from the "primary source" about how such questions were solved
                      Quote: ccsr
                      the cost of "Ural" was several times less than the cost of any cruiser of that time,

                      fool
                      "Sing the bird, don't be ashamed" - after all, ABOVE you "sang a song" that "there are no secrets left from the USSR", so "shake the readers" with your "arguments" wassat
                      do not forget only about the "almost aircraft carrier" displacement, nuclear power plant, expensive and unique weapons and military equipment and a bunch of highly paid people on board
                      Quote: ccsr
                      but the benefit from it in peacetime was more than from any cruiser.

                      on the part of sawing the dough with rats in uniform and without - of course
                      at the same time, the same naval reconnaissance officers (experienced commanders of the RZK) have already "screwed" YOU that a SYSTEM of SEVERAL RZK of a smaller dimension would be an order of magnitude more effective
                      Quote: ccsr
                      and "Krylov" is an ordinary marine KIK,

                      Zadova, purely for reference - he is NOT ONLY a KIK
                      and I wrote this right away
                      Quote: ccsr
                      It turned out that the naval ones proved to be dense in all respects related to high technologies

                      It turned out that YOU showed yourself to be a ensign Zadov lol

                      for the Navy "for some reason" very successfully exploited both the MKRTs and the RZK and in fact ALL of its reconnaissance assets at "101% of the possible"
                      Quote: ccsr
                      Didn't see such people there

                      So YOU ​​didn’t see anyone between yourself and YOUR own nonsense lol
                      Quote: ccsr
                      that among the navy there are many big talkers I have known for a long time

                      YOU have exhaustively proved yourself to be a TRAP here (and at the Base)
                      YOU again, poke? - and what YOU BREAK right here on this page!
                      Quote: ccsr
                      Don't wave the "airbase" too much, there was one "Cap" who showed what shit they cooked in Sevastopol, and you danced there to his tune.

                      fool
                      Zadova, the "subject" indicated by you, is traitor to the navyIgor Terekhin, the 1st rank captain of the Naval Forces of Ukraine, had nothing to do with the intelligence of the Navy (except for his "Vasya-Vasya" with the SBU, moreover, since 1992), it was he who actually destroyed the Base as a discussion platform, and it was my conflict with him and became the reason for the break with the Base.
                      So you, ensign Zadova, once again SAVED
                    13. ccsr
                      ccsr 6 October 2020 12: 27 New
                      0
                      Quote: Fizik M
                      do not forget only about the "almost aircraft carrier" displacement, nuclear power plant, expensive and unique weapons and military equipment and a bunch of highly paid people on board

                      Firstly, such buildings with a nuclear power plant were riveted for civilian needs - for example, "Sevmorput". Secondly, the nuclear power plant was from cruising illiquid assets.
                      Thirdly, the crew was not that big, so you're lying as usual.
                      Fourth, the computers used were those that were supplied in series. This is why the ship was cheap, but some illiterate naval officers simply do not know this.


                      Quote: Fizik M
                      YOU have already been "screwed" that a SYSTEM of SEVERAL RZK of smaller dimension would be an order of magnitude more effective

                      This lie is easily refuted by the autonomy of the "Ural", which could serve for six months off the coast of America, and even a few RZK equipment will not replace the equipment of this reconnaissance ship.

                      Quote: Fizik M
                      there is a traitor to the Navy, aka the 1st rank cap of the Navy, Igor Terekhin, had nothing to do with the intelligence of the Navy (except for his "Vasya Vasya" with the SBU, moreover, since 1992), it was he who actually destroyed the Base as a discussion platform, and it was mine the conflict with him became the reason for the break with the Base.

                      So I say that you cannot trust the naval forces - they could not even expel their traitor from the airbase, and he still runs the "naval" there. Why the hell am I going to believe such verbiage as you, or if they write at the airbase, being former naval commanders?
                    14. Fizik M
                      Fizik M 6 October 2020 13: 37 New
                      -2
                      Quote: ccsr
                      such buildings with a nuclear power plant were riveted for civilian needs - for example, "Sevmorput". Secondly, the atomic power plant was from cruising illiquid assets.

                      fool
                      LIE Zadova, LIE!
                      The Ural corps was made according to MILITARY requirements, and the power plant for the Sevmorput and TARKR are completely different (the first is generally ONE VALUE).
                      Quote: ccsr
                      Thirdly, the crew was not that big, so you're lying as usual.

                      95% of the TAKR crew is how?
                      moreover, the percentage of the officer corps was much more?
                      so who's lying down here?
                      Quote: ccsr
                      Fourth, the computers used were those that were supplied in series. That's why the ship was so cheap

                      another YOUR LIE
                      SM-1420 (EMNIP they stood there) yes, there were serial
                      but the intelligence means were not at all serial
                      Quote: ccsr
                      That is why the ship was cheap,

                      wassat
                      this is not even a "lie" and the apotheosis of stoned nonsense
                      let me remind you that we are talking about

                      with a total displacement of about 37000 tons !!! and nuclear power plant
                      Well, we read further VULYA:
                      Quote: ccsr
                      and even the equipment of this reconnaissance ship will not replace even several RZK

                      Quote: ccsr
                      the autonomy of the "Ural", which could serve for six months off the coast of America

                      people also for six months? - moreover, almost a thousand of highly qualified personnel?
                      Quote: ccsr
                      and even the equipment of this reconnaissance ship will not replace even several RZK

                      about the fact that even TWO simpler RZK will have MUCH great opportunities, - due to the possibility of reconnaissance and direction finding from different points, it has already been explained to YOU ​​- by people who REALLY DID it, AND WITH VERY AND VERY SERIOUS RESULTS
                      Quote: ccsr
                      damn I will believe so

                      Lie, you first learn to answer for your misconception and nonsense
                      maybe start with the fact that you snipped (and then merged) on this page
                    15. ccsr
                      ccsr 6 October 2020 19: 16 New
                      0
                      Quote: Fizik M
                      The "Ural" corps was made according to the MILITARY requirements,

                      So what, smart guy? Or are you not aware of how armor steel differs from the steel used to build auxiliary ships?
                      Quote: Fizik M
                      , and the power plant for "Sevmorput" and TARKR are completely different (the first is generally SINGLE).

                      It was about an atomic plant for cruisers - you are not in the subject here either, because a reconnaissance ship does not need such speed as cruisers, but the atomic plant came in handy.
                      Quote: Fizik M
                      95% of the TAKR crew is how?

                      It is so that your aircraft carrier does not carry round-the-clock combat duty, but stands most of the time at the quay wall, unlike a reconnaissance ship, which is why so many specialists are required.

                      Quote: Fizik M
                      people also for six months? - moreover, almost a thousand of highly qualified personnel?

                      Seamen of the civilian fleet on fishermen for 7-9 months in the sea hang out, and do not cry like our "clawed" ones. So your whining once again shows that the naval forces cannot be trusted with serious equipment - they will always find a reason not to fulfill the combat mission and destroy the newest ship.
                      Quote: Fizik M
                      about the fact that even TWO simpler RZK will have a LOT of great opportunities - due to the possibility of reconnaissance and direction finding from different points, it has already been explained to YOU

                      You are definitely a trembler, and you don't know that the Ural could work with the coastal units of osnaz if HF direction finding was required. But you are so illiterate that you don't know what space radio lines and telemetry, aviation and ship networks of the VHF and microwave bands were scouting there - why don't they need different points, layman? Yes, and radio interception can be carried out from one point - teach materiel, verbiage.
                    16. Fizik M
                      Fizik M 7 October 2020 09: 27 New
                      0
                      Quote: ccsr
                      So what, smart guy? Or are you not aware of how armor steel differs from the steel used to build auxiliary ships?

                      fool
                      Ensign of Zadova! YOUR "knowledge" wassat for this part they are at the level of the bazaar "Aunt Frosy" lol
                      Above-water warships are NOT BUILD of "armored steel" (PL is a separate conversation, because the prototype of "modern" steels for them AK-25 (2nd generation) was made on the basis of tank armor), with very few exceptions (for example, the use of a certain amount of AK steel on 1144 project).
                      It was about DESIGN STANDARDS (of which YOU have NO idea), and what kind of steel will be chosen is a matter of designers and suppliers.
                      Quote: ccsr
                      It was about an atomic plant for cruisers - you are not in the subject here either, because a reconnaissance ship does not need such speed as cruisers, but the atomic plant came in handy.

                      fool
                      Zadova, at least you yourself understood which one now nonsense wassat wrote? lol
                      Quote: ccsr
                      Seamen of the civilian fleet on fishermen for 7-9 months in the sea hang out, and do not cry like our "clawed" ones.

                      Ensign ZadovA!

                      I'll give you a "dreadful military secret" belay "open" -
                      the reason for the LIMITATION of the BS time by a maximum of 3 months - MEDICAL
                      what happens "next" - at the same Base, participants in such experiments told
                      For civilians (or the same US Navy - "deployment", our dieselungs) there were APPROACHES. So come on, tell BOOK WHERE it was necessary to "go" "Ural" for the rest of the crew! - especially when "working on Kwajalein"!
                      Quote: ccsr
                      You are definitely a trembler, and you don't know that Ural could work with coastal units of osnaz if HF direction finding was required

                      lol
                      Frosya, you seem to have confused something ...
                      The ship had a nuclear power plant - for work off the coast of the "enemy". The HF communication ranges and the possibilities for its direction finding are clear. How are you going to use the coastal units for this?
                      Quote: ccsr
                      But you are so illiterate that you don't know what space radio lines and telemetry, aviation and ship networks of the VHF and microwave bands were scouting there - why don't they need different points, layman?

                      Zadova, did they tell you in your parish Bursa that the Earth is ROUND? Or do you believe in "flat and 3 elephants"? lol From your streams of Achinea wassat the last one comes out laughing
  • Ruslan67
    Ruslan67 29 September 2020 17: 24 New
    +3
    Quote: ccsr
    There is no need to bend - several times a day, at least obligatory test sessions are carried out, and even in the warning networks, if the ship is at sea.

    the comrade probably does not know that during the exercises, etc., the network connection is maintained around the clock and one short signal is enough to check it bully
    1. Yngvar
      Yngvar 30 September 2020 08: 20 New
      0
      I agree that the connection is "round the clock" .. but for the reception! And the direct work on transmission (radiation) is quite narrowly focused and short-term (ABD equipment, fractions of a second), and not only for checking, but also for transmitting operational information.
      1. Fizik M
        Fizik M 3 October 2020 10: 51 New
        0
        Quote: Yngvar
        ADB, fractions of a second),

        it is not only intercepted, but also "chokes"
        and the reality was already in the 80s (because of which the Navy was forced to return to the "mass use" of the "Shark" 1955.)
  • Fizik M
    Fizik M 3 October 2020 10: 42 New
    +1
    Quote: ccsr
    There is no need to bend - several times a day, at least obligatory test sessions are carried out, and even in the warning networks, if the ship is at sea.

    monsieur, just one example
    when shooting "Topol" "in Hawaii" (this year is about 2005), the comment of "the corresponding comrades" from "Krylov" was: "in the radio networks of tactical interaction of the United States SILENT" (despite the fact that they actually worked)
  • Fizik M
    Fizik M 3 October 2020 10: 50 New
    0
    Quote: ccsr
    several times a day at least obligatory test sessions are carried out, and even in the warning networks, if the ship is at sea.

    LYING
    Quote: ccsr
    A combat ship on a campaign or on duty with the radar off?

    EASILY
    Quote: ccsr
    I don’t believe it, because any terrorist on a light airplane or a scow will destroy it.

    YOU watched the action movies
    Quote: ccsr
    such a mass of metal as a ship, even a reconnaissance aircraft can easily calculate

    lol
    MAGNETOMETER?!?!? laughing
    Quote: ccsr
    as are the reconnaissance satellites that perform surface sounding or combined survey of objects.

    please continue laughing
    I, as a person who did not miss a single central control session on my "one", I promise not to laugh loudly and not to kick painfully with my feet laughing
  • Fizik M
    Fizik M 3 October 2020 10: 40 New
    0
    Quote: ccsr
    You have never seen a single intelligence report, and you are already deciding who is talking nonsense and who is not.

    I have seen
    and more than once laughing
    YOU are not even talking "nonsense", but just AHINA
  • ccsr
    ccsr 28 September 2020 19: 28 New
    -4
    Quote: timokhin-aa
    So, just in case, the exercises were used to force Azerbaijan to peace in conditions when Comrade Erdogan was harnessed to him.

    Since when did Azerbaijan or Turkey become a strategic enemy for us in order to work out strategic exercises against them? It’s not funny yourself, pensioner, or do you have no idea how tactical exercises differ from operational ones, or operational-tactical exercises from strategic ones? I wonder where you studied military science - it does not seem that in the Soviet VVUZ.
    Quote: timokhin-aa
    In terms of the actions of the Ground Forces and the Airborne Forces, it turned out well, especially the landing forces were successful, the ZRV and the Aerospace Forces, well, let's put it ambiguously, and the fleet - as in the article.

    And how did you determine this - were you invited to sum up the results of the exercises, or did you learn everything from Konashenkov's words? Do not tell the military people - Konashenkov cannot say anything else, because he is a propagandist, and is not responsible for the field training of troops, and if you look closely, he does not even have a regiment command behind him:
    In 1998, after completing military service, the guy graduated from the military academy named after Marshal Zhukov in Tver in absentia. At the same time, Igor received the rank of senior officer and the position of deputy head of the department for cooperation with domestic and foreign media in the press service of the Russian Defense Ministry.
    - Read more on FB.ru: https://fb.ru/article/369600/igor-konashenkov-biografiya-semya-roditeli-generala
    So his words should be treated the same as the materials of the party workers of the Soviet period, and no more.
  • Alexander Galaktionov
    Alexander Galaktionov 29 September 2020 09: 33 New
    0
    In terms of aircraft, if we compare the Il 114 MP and ATR 72 MP, whose is it better and in what?
  • Fizik M
    Fizik M 1 October 2020 19: 47 New
    0
    ccsr
    Well, what is normal about it, if the author presses on the propaganda statement of the Ministry of Defense:
    How do you imagine the STRATEGIC doctrine of such a group and, most importantly, against whom - the author of the article clearly did not think about this issue. In general, for the propaganda event, the author has already given a full opinion on the state of our armed forces - well done, you can't say anything ...

    Answer from Klimov:
    G. Ccsr, YOU and I have already "crossed paths" about YOUR "fairy tales" about BP and the actions of the USSR Navy (which place is in children's "murzilki").
    In this particular case, YOU "modestly did not notice" the FACTS of "FULL TRASH" and "obstruction" with "combat" training of the Navy, such as "hauling trawls", the use of "hacky" targets and just "game" for anti-submarine training and when landing troops ...

    ccsr
    You are simply not aware of the weapons of American bombers of that time, including the flight range of their cruise missiles, which at that time reached such a range that they did not need to enter the zone of our air defense

    Answer from Klimov:
    And now we carefully read the MURZIL provided by YOU, and "enjoy the beauty"! More humor and laughter!

    ccsr
    You have never seen a single intelligence report, and you are already deciding who is talking nonsense and who is not.

    Answer from Klimov:
    The author has more than seen

    ccsr
    This is at the level of dreams - they didn't care what they write here, especially pensioners like you, or me, or someone else. Not a single normal acting officer in his right mind will describe in VO how things really are, and therefore the reliability of information from the field of assumptions.

    Answer from Klimov:
    "Yes of course"
    And the video from the exercises on the "Soyuzmultfilm" was "drawn" by J
    YOU, Monsieur ccsr, when you whip nonsense, do it at least a little less selflessly - it hurts!

    ccsr
    Well, since you yourself did not participate in strategic exercises conducted at the level of the General Staff and the Main Command of the Navy, then naturally propaganda chatter could not be distinguished even from the real staff games of the top military leadership, to which not only foreigners are not allowed, but not everyone in the leadership of the Ministry of Defense admitted.

    Answer from Klimov:
    The author participated. Incl. in the military administration

    ccsr
    Because the general concept of building the fleet has changed in terms of surface warships - they are made low-tonnage, but with an increased flight range of cruise missiles, which will allow reaching any enemy without leaving the distance of a torpedo attack.

    Answer from Klimov:
    Monsieur ccsr! The speech in the text of the article was actually not about anti-ship torpedoes, but about anti-aircraft torpedoes (SET-65)
  • krops777
    krops777 28 September 2020 15: 34 New
    -8
    Yes, a normal article without a hurray of patriotism


    What's normal then? What kind of panic? Set aside !!! soldier smile That is why they are exercises, in order to reveal all the problems and not improvements, but let the military specialists do the analysis.
    1. Pashhenko Nikolay
      Pashhenko Nikolay 28 September 2020 16: 33 New
      17
      And what was revealed? The lack of a fleet? Well, right now, they will probably start building at an accelerated rate.
      1. Boris ⁣ Shaver
        Boris ⁣ Shaver 29 September 2020 01: 09 New
        +5
        Quote: Pashhenko Nikolay
        And what was revealed? The lack of a fleet? Well, right now, they will probably start building at an accelerated rate.

        In Voronezh
    2. timokhin-aa
      29 September 2020 12: 25 New
      +1
      Here is a military specialist and wrote an article. According to the results.
  • rusboris
    rusboris 28 September 2020 22: 16 New
    +4
    The Black Sea and Baltic Fleets have always carried functions auxiliary to the ground forces. Their historically emerging, excess power ravaged the treasury, without compensation with loud victories. Probably, the endless repetition of past mistakes depends on the climate. The warmer the sea, the more ships and admirals appear. Even now the cruiser "Moskva" is too big for the Black Sea, there is too little water there.
    War is one of the constant factors in the existence of human civilization. And material interest acts as a cover, a human instinct to always fight. All the talk about world peace, smokescreen. Currently, an interstate war between the United States and Russia is not likely due to nuclear weapons. This means that we will wage wars of low intensity (hybrid). For such wars, it is necessary to develop economic thinking (only business, nothing personal) and to manufacture special equipment. The author objectively and well describes the preparation of the fleet for an interstate war with the participation of the United States. And you need to approach the Black Sea Fleet with the standard of war with Romania, Bulgaria, Ukraine, and the edge with Turkey. No more. And then again it will be excruciatingly painful, as for the mediocre money thrown to the wind in 1914 and 1941. "Walking wide - torn your pants."
    1. ban
      ban 28 September 2020 23: 04 New
      +8
      Even now the cruiser "Moskva" is too big for the Black Sea, there is too little water

      And in the Mediterranean? Is there enough water for him?
    2. ccsr
      ccsr 29 September 2020 11: 54 New
      -2
      Quote: rusboris
      And you need to approach the Black Sea Fleet with the standard of war with Romania, Bulgaria, Ukraine, and the region with Turkey. No more.

      In general, I agree with your conclusions, but about the war with these states, you clearly got excited, because 6-8 Tu-95 or Tu-160 bombers, even with a non-nuclear BC, will destroy the infrastructure of any capital of the listed countries, and the war will immediately end there - unless, of course, it comes to this.
      As for the Black Sea Fleet, I have long been convinced that it should become a training base for other fleets, if only because the climate and ice-free sea will allow more intensive training of future naval specialists all year round, and this is very important.
  • Hagen
    Hagen 29 September 2020 07: 50 New
    -8
    Quote: Kronos
    Yes, a normal article without hurray patrism

    Well yes. All admiral generals are imperfections, only Klimov is a truth-teller and a beacon of our time. Only the question is, something of this genius of maritime affairs, except in VO, is nowhere to be heard, not to be seen. Obviously, for the more demanding media, his qualifications are not entirely sufficient. I am tormented by vague doubts about the veracity of what I have written ...
    1. ban
      ban 29 September 2020 08: 09 New
      -1
      Are you writing such nonsense for a salary?
      1. Hagen
        Hagen 29 September 2020 10: 30 New
        -1
        Quote: ban
        Are you writing such nonsense for a salary?

        How can you refute it if you think that what has been written is nonsense? By faith to the author?
        1. ban
          ban 29 September 2020 11: 20 New
          +4
          I don't take anything on faith.
          The author has facts
          1. Hagen
            Hagen 29 September 2020 16: 02 New
            -1
            Quote: ban
            The author has facts

            Konashenkovsky jambs do not interest me from the word at all. His business is casual and messy public relations. Maybe he messed something up. But the evaluative judgments about the level of tactical and operational training of individual ships and the fleet as a whole cause me doubts. For such statements, you need to know the detailed plan of the exercise and the questions to be worked out during the exercise. The post-exercise assessments made by the press service are a traditional mantra for civilians. The real distribution of elephants and the materialization of spirits will be carried out later and not in public in the quiet of the conference hall without the presence of the press, possibly accompanied by profanity. It is after such analyzes that some are given orders and medals, while others lose stars and offices .. And the stories from the voice of the communications departments .... are not worth much.
            1. ban
              ban 29 September 2020 16: 57 New
              -1
              Posting DESO and OBK behind the trawls - is it HOW? Has the experience of war taught you nothing?
              Torpedo weapons that should go to the museum - no? In order not to repeat myself, the following was correctly written:
              The actual absence of aviation in the exercises, the majority of those involved are known to be wretched targets, the use of not even "Calm", but "Wasps" for practicing air defense missions ... Doubtful compositions of the KUG, which do not provide orders for air defense or PLO and are only capable of a caliber strike on a plow
              1. Hagen
                Hagen 29 September 2020 20: 53 New
                -1
                Quote: ban
                Posting DESO and OBK behind the trawls - is it HOW? Has the experience of war taught you nothing?

                Comrade! Would you like the open press to describe everything that the Navy has learned from the experience of conflicts? Our enemies also read the open press ... Do you really think that all tactical novelties should be published in the media? The media is, among other things, disinformation for the enemy. In case you don't play chess ... laughing
                1. ban
                  ban 29 September 2020 21: 09 New
                  -1
                  Is that all you can argue?
                  Or a tactical novelty for you TNPA?
                  PS We are not comrades, that's for sure.
                  1. Hagen
                    Hagen 29 September 2020 21: 23 New
                    0
                    Quote: ban
                    Or a tactical novelty for you TNPA?

                    Tactical novelties are protected by patents and are not shared with anyone.
                    Quote: ban
                    PS We are not comrades, that's for sure.

                    Are you from the CIA? laughing
                  2. ban
                    ban 29 September 2020 22: 43 New
                    +1
                    Tactical innovations are protected by patents

                    Smiled
                  3. Hagen
                    Hagen 29 September 2020 22: 55 New
                    -1
                    Quote: ban
                    Smiled

                    This is an allegory (if it is not clear without decoding) laughing In general, it is sad to see how the "former" lose their scent for keeping secrets. Konashenko knows what he is doing. That is why it carries an utter blizzard. Like, let the adversary figure out where the truth is, and where the disinformation is frank. And you take everything at face value and think that Dep on communications does not distinguish some ships from others. laughing After all, it is clear that civilians who are far from the fleet do not care which ship goes where. The main thing is that the exercises began and ended, something worked out and "drowned". And here you are - analysis of exercises according to media reports! Ridiculous !!! Wipe off the protector from the ears ... laughing (and advise the author ...)
                  4. ban
                    ban 29 September 2020 22: 59 New
                    -2
                    What's the secret? What do we have from top to bottom, or, or the enemies of the people are seated?
                  5. Hagen
                    Hagen 29 September 2020 23: 04 New
                    -1
                    Quote: ban
                    What's the secret? What do we have from top to bottom, or, or the enemies of the people are seated?

                    It is clear that your last post does not go beyond the hold ... I am not condemning. It's just that everyone has their own DPA ... The principles of keeping secrets are also science ... It is inappropriate to tell it here.
                  6. ban
                    ban 29 September 2020 23: 27 New
                    -2
                    It is clear that your last post does not go beyond the hold

                    It depends on where and when wink

                    and advise the author

                    Unfortunately, I am not familiar with the author, but he writes correctly, and, importantly, he suggests ways of solving problems.

                    debriefing exercises according to media reports! Ridiculous !!!

                    I advise you to recall the media reports before the Russian-Japanese. Do you know how it ended?
                    Have you read the latest news?
                  7. Revival
                    Revival 30 September 2020 08: 43 New
                    -2
                    And then such people would also write to you, they say everything is good, it is just that you are not supposed to know, the tsar knows what he is doing, we just keep all the achievements / inventions secret for the time being, and so on.
                2. Fizik M
                  Fizik M 3 October 2020 11: 00 New
                  -2
                  Quote: Hagen
                  It is clear that your last post does not go beyond the hold ..

                  it is clear that YOU are very young and silly "Olginskaya girl" with "low social responsibility" lol
            2. rusboris
              rusboris 30 September 2020 00: 14 New
              0
              Hagen Advocate for stupid majors! Unless, of course, he is making fun of them - zealots of state secrets.
            3. Hagen
              Hagen 30 September 2020 11: 59 New
              -2
              Quote: rusboris
              Unless, of course, he is making fun of them - zealots of state secrets.

              I make fun of those who sacredly believe in the written (it is not clear by whom) word. Once in the late 80s, he participated in exercises with the deployment of a division to a full staff. The exercise was commanded by one member of the "paradise group". At the end, in front of the formation, he announced a lot of flattering remarks on training and actions. But on the parsing of some of the wings .... so as not to shine, and the deputy commander, after parsing, went to SAVO to receive the division. If you tell me that the author was admitted to a "narrow club" and wrote an article based on the materials of the analysis of the teachings, then I will not really believe it. And the media will give some kind of crap in the style of "hurray, everything is fine" with a description of fables. However, judging by the constant links to the communications department's comments, the article was written precisely from the words of the department. I am sure that today, as in the USSR, there is one piece of information for the masses, and for specialists another, in terms of their concern.
            4. Fizik M
              Fizik M 1 October 2020 19: 49 New
              0
              Quote: Hagen
              I make fun of those who

              yes YOU are just playing a game
            5. ccsr
              ccsr 3 October 2020 17: 42 New
              0
              Quote: Hagen
              I am sure that today, as in the USSR, there is one piece of information for the masses, and for specialists - another, in terms of their concern.

              You write everything correctly. Moreover, you should remember that a test or any exercises are analyzed in a narrow circle immediately after their completion, and as a rule, then the commander is summoned to the carpet at the headquarters of the district (fleet). And already there the corresponding chief not only inserts, but also determines the ways to eliminate the revealed shortcomings. I'm not talking about orders, which also come after such events, and to which only a narrow circle is allowed in the part concerning, but only a narrow circle of officials has always been devoted to this. And the current smart people, according to Konashenkov, decided to determine the state of our armed forces, despite the fact that the SNF did not participate in these exercises at all. Well, groans about some ships of the Black Sea Fleet generally cause laughter - people simply do not adequately assess the situation with these exercises, and think that if they shout about it at every corner, the Black Sea Fleet will simply be reborn as a Phoenix bird. And no one wants to ponder whether our Federation Council was really needed in Syria, if, by and large, even without their participation there it was possible to do there with lower costs.
            6. Fizik M
              Fizik M 3 October 2020 17: 56 New
              0
              Quote: ccsr
              then the commander is summoned to the headquarters of the district (fleet). And already there the corresponding chief not only inserts, but also determines the ways to eliminate the revealed shortcomings. I'm not talking about orders that also come after such events.

              in 2009. as part of the Black Sea Fleet appeared the first and only TSCHIM with one TNPA PMO
              in 2020 as part of the WARRIOR (for more than 5 years) the Black Sea Fleet is also ONE LIQUID ("Zakharyin" is not capable of combat) and ONE TNPA PMO
              At the same time, at the Northern Fleet and Pacific Fleet, in general, NOT ONE LOVE, NOT ONE TNLA PMO.
              I have a simple question - name those who were INSERTED for this, and how many TEN YEARS it will take to "obsolete the identified shortcomings" (including those that can be REPAIRED in a week or two)

              Quote: ccsr
              Was our Federation Council really needed in Syria, if, by and large, and without their participation it was possible to do there with less costs?

              - "the logic of ensign Zadov"

              What would you be if you had banged Erdogan in 2015. such subjects do not have enough "brains" to understand.
          2. Fizik M
            Fizik M 5 October 2020 12: 44 New
            -2
            Quote: Hagen
            Once in the late 80s, he participated in exercises with the deployment of a division to a full staff. The exercise was commanded by one member of the "paradise group".

            wassat
            Quote: Hagen
            Tactical innovations are protected by patents

            lol
            laughing
            Threat, everything is clear with you, "Olginskaya girl with reduced social responsibility" lol
            or maybe "grandma"? laughing already if you declare
            Quote: Hagen
            Once in the late 80s, he participated in exercises with the deployment of a division to a full staff. The exercise was commanded by one member of the "paradise group".

            belay
      2. Fizik M
        Fizik M 3 October 2020 10: 59 New
        -2
        Quote: Hagen
        This is an allegory (if it is not clear without decoding)

        this is YOUR stupid and illiterate trash
        Quote: Hagen
        Konashenko knows what he is doing

        fool
        Considering how much of something that CANNOT be "shone" was "exposed" by "konash" in the OFFICIAL video of the RF Ministry of Defense?
        Quote: Hagen
        And you take everything at face value

        "yes-yes", on the Black Sea Fleet, Pacific Fleet and Northern Fleet we have a "hundred-pITSOT" TSCHIM with "modern weapons"
        they just hid in the "bins of the Motherland"
        lol
  • Fizik M
    Fizik M 3 October 2020 10: 57 New
    -1
    Quote: Hagen
    Tactical novelties are protected by patents

    fool
    Neighing Aki horse laughing
  • Hagen
    Hagen 4 October 2020 09: 26 New
    -2
    As a person with the thinking of a horse I translate - there is such a "patent", popularly called "nondisclosure agreement .......". Here they (she) are "protected" in terms of providing information for the media and so on.
  • ccsr
    ccsr 4 October 2020 11: 08 New
    +1
    Quote: Hagen
    Here they (she) are "protected" in terms of providing information for the media and so on.

    I’ll even tell you more - there are inventions and dissertations that were not even sent to the Higher Attestation Commission and decisions on them were made only in the regime structures of the corresponding profile, where a very narrow circle of specialists could get acquainted with these materials. The word "patent" did not sound there, but the materials were protected so that no one had access to them, except for those who were supposed to.
  • Fizik M
    Fizik M 4 October 2020 13: 44 New
    0
    Quote: ccsr
    The word "patent" did not sound there, but they were protected

    Warrant Officer Zadov! YOU don't jump off the topic:
    Quote: Hagen
    Tactical innovations are protected by patents

    please continue your SHOW wassat about
    Quote: Hagen
    Tactical innovations are protected by patents
  • Fizik M
    Fizik M 4 October 2020 13: 39 New
    0
    Quote: Hagen
    ak h

    listen to "olginskaya girl" (with "reduced social responsibility") lol
    would you continue to carry ACHINA wassat I would rush to the owner that you have just been released to VO in full, so that he would give you manuals smarter than your current "murziloks"
  • Hagen
    Hagen 4 October 2020 16: 00 New
    -1
    Quote: Fizik M
    Listen

    After all, I answered you three days ago ... But you ..., you see, you can't find a path without a detailed map.laughing
  • Fizik M
    Fizik M 1 October 2020 19: 48 New
    -2
    Quote: Hagen
    Comrade! Would you like the open press to describe everything that the Navy has learned from the experience of conflicts? Our enemies also read the open press ... Do you really think that all tactical novelties should be published in the media? The media is, among other things, disinformation for the enemy. In case you don't play chess.


    REALITIES ARE MUCH WORSE THAN IN THE ARTICLE
    AND THIS IS FACTS
  • Fizik M
    Fizik M 3 October 2020 10: 56 New
    -1
    Quote: Hagen
    Would you like the open press to describe everything that the Navy has learned from the experience of conflicts?

    AGAIN
    AT the Pacific Fleet and Northern Fleet TODAY ZERO THINKING, ZERO PIECES OF ANTI-MINE TNLA
    ON BSF IN STORY 1 (ONE) TNPA PMO

    and these are FACTS
    so the "experience of conflicts", our emefE really "taught" belay
  • Fizik M
    Fizik M 3 October 2020 10: 54 New
    -1
    Quote: Hagen
    By faith to the author?

    yes at least VIDEO of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation
    which "sho" ...
  • timokhin-aa
    1 October 2020 15: 45 New
    -2
    Obviously, for the more demanding media, his qualifications are not entirely sufficient.


    For example, here
    https://nvo.ng.ru/armament/2015-01-16/1_myths.html

    or from fresh
    https://www.vpk-news.ru/articles/58856

    I am tormented by vague doubts about the veracity of what I have written ...


    You, apparently, and about the fact that the Earth is round doubts torment.
    1. Hagen
      Hagen 1 October 2020 17: 14 New
      -2
      Quote: timokhin-aa
      You, apparently, and about the fact that the Earth is round doubts torment.

      For you, apparently, the Earth is really just round. This is the trouble. You are all somehow approximately, without immersion in the essence. And the Earth has a different shape, it is a geoid, a kind of almost flattened ellipsoid.
      Quote: timokhin-aa
      or from fresh
      https://www.vpk-news.ru/articles/58856

      What are you, comrade? You will give an example of links to you. As the blotter used to say, this is how I can ... laughing Would you honestly (or hint) say you are allowed to debrief the exercises or are you a devoted subscriber of the "Flag of the Motherland"? Only by knowing the true objectives of the activity / exercise can the selected teaching materials be evaluated. In class, even in the Bundeswehr, they run periodically with wooden machine guns. But this does not mean that the real ones are over.
      1. timokhin-aa
        1 October 2020 21: 12 New
        -1
        For you, apparently, the Earth is really just round. This is the trouble. You are all somehow approximately, without immersion in the essence.


        The irregularity of the geoid is a very controversial issue. To be honest, though, I mistook you for a flat earth supporter. They say they are still dating.

        What are you, comrade? You will give an example of links to you.


        I'm not Klimov. And you asked for Klimov.
      2. Fizik M
        Fizik M 2 October 2020 19: 46 New
        -2
        Quote: Hagen
        What are you, comrade? You will give an example of links to you. As the blotter used to say, this is how I can.

        listen blotter, do you have google for coupons? Or were you banned from the arbitration bases?
  • Fizik M
    Fizik M 1 October 2020 19: 50 New
    -2
    Quote: Hagen
    Well yes. All admiral generals are imperfections, only Klimov is a truth-teller and a beacon of our time.

    fool
    read arbitration, monsieur brehlo
    1. Hagen
      Hagen 1 October 2020 21: 20 New
      0
      Quote: Fizik M
      read arbitration,

      I do not consider the advice of boors.
  • Fizik M
    Fizik M 3 October 2020 10: 53 New
    0
    Quote: Hagen
    Torment me

    with this to the doctor
    Quote: Hagen
    All admiral generals are imperfections, one Klimov is a truth-teller and a beacon of our time

    in YOUR stupid training manual, the owners of YOU nothing, even a little smarter, do not write "Shmogli"? lol
  • Insurgent
    Insurgent 28 September 2020 10: 09 New
    -13 qualifying.
    Quote: ANIMAL
    Chief, it's all gone! The plaster is removed, the client leaves (c) C / f The Diamond Arm.

    Yes recourse ... Everything is bad, very bad ... WHY LIVE?!?!?
    1. Boris ⁣ Shaver
      Boris ⁣ Shaver 29 September 2020 01: 11 New
      +2
      Quote: Insurgent
      LIVE WHY?!?!?

      To do better
  • aleksejkabanets
    aleksejkabanets 28 September 2020 10: 12 New
    47
    Quote: ANIMAL
    Looked at the author of the article ... didn't even finish reading!

    Then what is the value of your comment?
    Quote: ANIMAL
    This citizen has buried all four Fleets and one Fleet already! But ... rumors of their demise -

    Rumors may be exaggerated, but if you think that everything is fine with the fleet, then you are greatly mistaken.
    1. Kart
      Kart 28 September 2020 10: 23 New
      -46 qualifying.
      The problem is that the author and people like you here tell everyone that everything is bad with the fleet.
      But this is not true.
      1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
        Andrei from Chelyabinsk 28 September 2020 10: 33 New
        50
        Quote: Carte
        But this is not true.

        Well, tell the truth :)))))
        1. Alexander Galaktionov
          Alexander Galaktionov 29 September 2020 09: 38 New
          -2
          Andriy Black Sea Fleet will not be reinforced with corvettes on pr20380 all at once
          1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
            Andrei from Chelyabinsk 29 September 2020 12: 45 New
            +8
            Quote: Alexander Galaktionov
            Andriy Black Sea Fleet will not be reinforced with corvettes on pr20380 all at once

            Yes, as many as 2 pieces. Or maybe even all 4, but the second pair - in 7 years. In general, do not make me laugh, please. And the most important thing. As follows from the article, we cannot even dispose of what we have now. What will the corvettes change here?
            1. Alexander Galaktionov
              Alexander Galaktionov 30 September 2020 05: 58 New
              -3
              Next will go pr 22350 frigates Andrey not all at once won pr 1155 for the Pacific Fleet will upgrade the 2nd 1155, so to speak, the wishes of all military forums
              1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                Andrei from Chelyabinsk 30 September 2020 07: 42 New
                +3
                Quote: Alexander Galaktionov
                Next will go pr 22350 frigates Andrey not all at once

                Don't repeat this mantra. "Not all at once." We have adopted the state armaments program since 2010, ten years have passed, in the part of the Navy it has been fulfilled by about 20-25%. The Pacific Fleet and the Northern Fleet need a MINIMUM of 6 frigates 22350 each, and there are 2 of them in formation, 6 are under construction, and 2 more contracts have been signed. When will it reach the Black Sea Fleet? After 2030, when, apart from 6 Varshavyanka and 3 11356, nothing will remain in the ranks?
                Quote: Alexander Galaktionov
                won pr1155 for the Pacific Fleet will upgrade the 2nd 1155, so to speak, the wishes of all military forums

                To put it mildly, modernization is questionable, and such rates - one at a time - will lead to the fact that their number in the fleet will be reduced from 7 to 3 by the end of this decade.
          2. Revival
            Revival 30 September 2020 08: 45 New
            +4
            2030 .. not all at once ... 2045 not all at once ... 2287 not all at once ...
            A little bit left, ...
      2. Malyuta
        Malyuta 28 September 2020 10: 34 New
        40
        Quote: Carte
        The problem is that the author and people like you here tell everyone that everything is bad with the fleet.
        But this is not true.

        If you take for the truth what the regular lie of the konashenki lies about, then you can only sympathize.
        1. sheridans
          sheridans 30 September 2020 09: 03 New
          +1
          The answer is simple. Dumb in matters of the Navy are trying to draw conclusions from the exercises. The natural falsity of such experts cannot be judged. In other words - complete henna.
          1. Fizik M
            Fizik M 1 October 2020 19: 50 New
            -1
            Quote: sheridans
            The natural deceit of such experts cannot be assessed

            lying lies here YOU
      3. aleksejkabanets
        aleksejkabanets 28 September 2020 10: 38 New
        22
        Quote: Carte
        The problem is that the author and people like you here tell everyone that everything is bad with the fleet.
        But this is not true.

        Do you think that everything is fine? Of course, the concepts are good - badly relative, if you compare, with the reign of Ivan the Terrible, it is not just good, but great, and if you compare it with the Brezhnev USSR, then I see no reason for joy.
        1. pmkemcity
          pmkemcity 28 September 2020 12: 27 New
          11
          Quote: aleksejkabanets
          Do you think that everything is fine?

          1. frog
            frog 28 September 2020 12: 54 New
            10
            Well, it may very well be ....
            1. pmkemcity
              pmkemcity 28 September 2020 13: 04 New
              +7
              We have a whole canister of alcohol here, and the rest is nonsense! I was given a kilogram, but the CEO, you bastard, took half of it! Eh! youth has passed! I wish I drank then!
              1. frog
                frog 28 September 2020 13: 05 New
                +3
                And why else do you need a senior officer ??))) And that's why I selected it, otherwise this process would have begun)))
                1. pmkemcity
                  pmkemcity 28 September 2020 13: 40 New
                  +3
                  Quote: frog
                  And that's why I took away

                  There was a sin behind him ... And so, basically, all sorts of rubbish for alcohol in Dalzavod ordered. The rest was handed over to the nachkhim. He made an eerie tincture on orange peels, and gave out "on loan" as needed.
          2. ver_
            ver_ 29 September 2020 12: 23 New
            -1
            ..of course good .. * beautiful marquise except for a trifle * ...
  • Uncle lee
    Uncle lee 28 September 2020 10: 21 New
    +2
    Interesting, interesting ... The fact that in the USSR it was on a larger scale is a fact!
    1. timokhin-aa
      28 September 2020 10: 59 New
      34
      The question here is not in scale, but in proportions. How many aircraft supported the operations of one ship in the USSR Navy? And now? The fleet is again played in "blind with a club". And prepares to climb on mines with a bare bottom.
      The outcome will be a little predictable.
      1. ProkletyiPirat
        ProkletyiPirat 28 September 2020 12: 23 New
        +3
        Quote: timokhin-aa
        The fleet is again played in "blind with a club". And he prepares to climb the mines with his bare bottom.
        The outcome will be a little predictable.

        it's stupid to argue with this, on the other hand, if we start to "rivet the fleet" like the same Chinese, then there will still be no sense from such a fleet, here is the notorious the closeness and remoteness of the theater plays a primary role... It is for this reason that the main requirement for our Navy should be the ability to:
        OR transfer forces and means between the theater of operations bypassing other people's waters,
        OR to use forces and means with a minimum probability of being taken out of combat readiness
        OR to use forces and means, which are not critical and easily eliminated.

        And that the fleet of the USSR, that the current fleet of the Russian Federation, that the prospective fleet of the Russian Federation under construction, does not correspond to these three options ...
        1. timokhin-aa
          28 September 2020 12: 27 New
          30
          What prevented the exercise during exercises as it should be, with the allocation of at least a full-fledged outfit of forces for aerial reconnaissance, even from available aviation? What prevents the old minesweepers from beginning to equip normal mine-action systems, at least imported, if not the best? What prevents the launch of the production of telecontrol systems, which received a "serial" letter back in 2008 within the framework of the ROC "Steering wheel"? What prevents you from at least buying a license from the Turks for their "Zargan" SDPD and finishing them for our boats? If we can't do it ourselves? What prevents, when designing new submarines, to fulfill the counter requirements for the availability of the possibility of using anti-torpedoes, and not stupidly lie to the customer and then, together with the Customer, to the Minister of Defense and the President?

          The question is not to build a fleet like the Chinese. The question is to prepare for war, at least with the forces that are.
          1. ProkletyiPirat
            ProkletyiPirat 28 September 2020 13: 08 New
            -1
            firstly, carefully reread my previous post and do not attribute other people's thoughts to me
            secondly, I will paraphrase your thesis "what is the point in highly professional farsighted sailors with clubs when they are either shot, or poisoned, or blown up one by one?"
          2. Tamer
            Tamer 30 September 2020 11: 24 New
            0
            Quote: timokhin-aa
            What prevented me from training as I should at the exercises ...?
            The question is not to build a fleet like the Chinese. The question is to prepare for war, at least with the forces that are.

            What for? To sign the failure of the rearmament and construction of the fleet? What then to show on TV about the "increased power of the fleet"?
        2. Vladimir1155
          Vladimir1155 28 September 2020 13: 43 New
          +1
          Quote: ProkletyiPirat
          OR transfer forces and means between the theater of operations bypassing other people's water areas,

          this is easy to do if you equip the Caspian Baltic Sea and the Black Sea Fleet with only rank 3 ships, and all ranks 1-2 for the protection of nuclear submarine bases
          1. ProkletyiPirat
            ProkletyiPirat 28 September 2020 14: 28 New
            +6
            firstly: Vladimir, you are making a mistake by driving your reasoning into the framework of the outdated classification of courts. No need to get hung up on "corvettes", "frigate", "destroyers" and / or "rank" of ships, today these concepts in themselves do not mean anything and do not show ...

            secondly: 1-2 ranks, at least today's and / or prospectively under construction, it makes no sense to send someone somewhere to defend, here we need completely different forces, means and methods. For example, giving submarines multifunctionality and the ability to service at sea without entering ports will provide protection for both nuclear submarines and their bases much more reliable than 1-2 ranks (there are exceptions and nuances, but this is a separate topic).
            1. Vladimir1155
              Vladimir1155 28 September 2020 17: 12 New
              0
              Quote: ProkletyiPirat
              1-2 ranks, at least today and / or prospectively under construction, it is pointless to send someone somewhere to defend, here we need completely different forces, means and methods.

              I completely agree, but at least all the benefits can be used to guard the exit from the bases of the nuclear submarines, everything is better than the picturesque cardboard fool exclusively for parades and the vanity of uryapatriots with zero combat effectiveness
          2. ZEMCH
            ZEMCH 28 September 2020 17: 26 New
            +2
            Quote: vladimir1155
            this is easy to do if you equip the Caspian Baltic Sea and the Black Sea Fleet with only rank 3 ships, and all ranks 1-2 for the protection of nuclear submarine bases

            And where are all these "first rankings" based? How many ships can be based in Severomorsk? Or Vladivostok? We can talk a lot about the fact that we need a fleet like China's, but there is nowhere to base it !! And it still needs to be repaired !!
            1. Vladimir1155
              Vladimir1155 29 September 2020 08: 46 New
              +2
              now in the Russian Federation there are 6 surface first ranks, three per ocean on average, it is quite possible to find a place for them in Severomorsk and Petropavlovsk,
      2. Volder
        Volder 29 September 2020 11: 44 New
        +1
        Quote: timokhin-aa
        How many aircraft supported the operations of one ship in the USSR Navy? And now? The fleet is again played in "blind with a club".
        Reconnaissance and target designation for ships are performed by satellites of the Liana orbital system.
        And he prepares to climb the mines with his bare bottom.
        To place mines near our bases, their carrier will have to enter the air defense zone. The planes will be shot down by interceptor fighters or S-400s. Surface ships (minelayers) will be destroyed 500 km away by our BRK "Bastion", not to mention the naval aviation and surface ships with "Calibers". Achilles' heel is countering enemy submarines. But thanks to stationary hydroacoustic stations, GAKs and GASs on surface ships, as well as the remnants of anti-submarine aircraft, enemy submarines will not dare to approach the bases.
        In general, it can provide coastal defense to repel an attack by the Navy.
        1. timokhin-aa
          29 September 2020 12: 29 New
          +5
          I have already exhaustively answered you somehow - before speaking, read something on the topic

          Reconnaissance and target designation for ships are performed by satellites of the Liana orbital system.


          Target designation is not carried out, it is given. And Liana's satellites cannot technically do this.
        2. Fizik M
          Fizik M 1 October 2020 19: 51 New
          0
          Volder
          To place mines near our bases, their carrier will have to enter the air defense zone. The planes will be shot down by interceptor fighters or S-400s. Surface ships (minelayers) will be destroyed 500 km away by our BRK "Bastion", not to mention the naval aviation and surface ships with "Calibers". Achilles' heel is countering enemy submarines. But thanks to stationary hydroacoustic stations, GAKs and GASs on surface ships, as well as the remnants of anti-submarine aircraft, enemy submarines will not dare to approach the bases.
          In general, it can provide coastal defense to repel an attack by the Navy.

          Answer from Klimov:
          Radio horizon
          EW
          Small BK S-400
          TOTAL 5 modern AWACS in videoconferencing
          Covert arming from submarine
          There is not a single modern powerful GAS on the Black Sea Fleet
          1. ProkletyiPirat
            ProkletyiPirat 2 October 2020 21: 32 New
            0
            Well, it will not work everywhere, for example, in the Baltic between Estonia and Finland, mining can be carried out from boats / boats and remotely through MLRS, and here neither the S-400 nor the bastions will help. On the Kuril isthmus, UAVs and / or submarines with mines. So there would be a desire and it is always possible to mine. Another thing is that mines in themselves are not such a problem, the main problem is PMO, you mean minesweepers, you need a lot of them, it's just unjustified a lot, and they are not a panacea, because they can also be destroyed. Therefore, other methods of solving the PMO are needed. As I wrote above
            OR transfer forces and means between the theater of operations bypassing other people's water areas,
            OR use forces and assets with a minimum likelihood of withdrawal from combat readiness
            EITHER to use forces and means, which are not critical and easily eliminated.
            (or all together)

            In my opinion, the PMO is best solved by the combination: an aircraft-like VTA with VVPZ (VTOL), which delivers large remotely controlled demining complexes with a mass size of no less than the DShL of project 02800 to a distance of thousands of kilometers. MP / Airborne Forces, the same aircraft can carry out bombardment and supply and evacuation and air artillery fire support and much more.
  • Aaron Zawi
    Aaron Zawi 28 September 2020 10: 28 New
    +1
    Pancake. The article is not direct for VO, but rather for
  • Aaron Zawi
    Aaron Zawi 28 September 2020 10: 32 New
    11
    I will not undertake to discuss analytics
    article because I simply have nothing to say, but it is clearly not very suitable in tonality for VO. Too pessimistic; this is the mood I read most often on Israeli thematic forums. That's where they like to talk about missing polymers and bang their heads against the wall.
  • Malyuta
    Malyuta 28 September 2020 10: 38 New
    21
    Quote: ANIMAL
    Chief, it's all gone! The plaster is removed, the client leaves (c) C / f The Diamond Arm.

    If you climb ahead for the rating in each article, then you are mistaken here. yes
    It happens laughing
    Try the next one, something about "urine", "suburb", "404" add, ride laughing laughing laughing
    1. WILL
      WILL 28 September 2020 16: 24 New
      -18 qualifying.
      Quote: Malyuta

      If you climb ahead for the rating in each article, then you are mistaken here. yes
      It happens laughing
      Try the next one, something about "urine", "suburb", "404" add, ride laughing laughing laughing

      I don't give a damn about the opinion of the pseudo-Ekperd Klimov, fool the outspoken Enemy - the main platform of which are Echo of Moscow and Nezavisimaya Gazeta (direct non-publishing publications), but in your opinion, so in general ... negative
      Unlike you - I saw the Fleet not only in pictures, keep crying loudly. crying
      Our Malyuta is crying loudly
      Everything is lost about it ...
      But in fact ...
      just like that - he won't get his nickel
      Five rubles is not money like ...
      LOUDLY shout - DOCOLE ????
      Go to work, stop drumming on the keyboard, maybe life will improve! And by the way, my education does not allow me to name the neighboring state, albeit a non-state ... as you call it.
      [quote = Malyuta
      Try the next one, something about "urine", "suburb", "404" add, ride laughing laughing laughing[/ Quote]
      Actually, that's your whole level ... analyteg laughing
      1. Malyuta
        Malyuta 28 September 2020 19: 19 New
        16
        Quote: ANIMAL
        Here I do not care at all about the opinion of the pseudo-Ekperd Klimov, fool of the outspoken Enemy - whose main platform is Echo of Moscow and Nezavisimaya Gazeta (direct non-publishing publications), but your opinion is so generally ... negative
        Unlike you - I saw the Fleet not only in pictures, keep crying loudly

        belay You, colleague, have so much expression and splashes ... you can easily think that this is a woman's or a kid's hysteria.
        Do not despair for your rating, get up early tomorrow, add comments in the forefront, teach us sinners, life, tell us how wonderful everything is, and members of the forum will appreciate your great work. hi
      2. Fizik M
        Fizik M 1 October 2020 19: 52 New
        0
        Quote: ANIMAL
        pseudoEkperd Klimov, an outspoken Enemy - whose main platform is Echo of Moscow and


        Musier, LAPPY BEAST, YOU have forgotten the "Voice of America" ​​and "Free Europe" lol
  • lucul
    lucul 28 September 2020 11: 29 New
    -32 qualifying.
    Looked at the author of the article ... didn't even finish reading!
    This citizen has already buried all four Fleets and one Fleet!

    Well, even the enemy will not write such an article)))
    The usual crying of pensioners, how bad everything is)))
    Reminds the Socratic speech about youth)))
    1. Fan-fan
      Fan-fan 28 September 2020 12: 37 New
      +5
      Does it really hurt your eyes?
      1. lucul
        lucul 28 September 2020 12: 59 New
        -20 qualifying.
        Does it really hurt your eyes?

        Aha-ahah, but here all Haifa has already unsubscribed))))
        Found a pensioner and let's sculpt propaganda)))
        Reminds of the 40s and the cry of a pensioner general about the disastrous state of cavalry in the army)))
        1. Fizik M
          Fizik M 1 October 2020 19: 52 New
          0
          Quote: lucul
          Found a pensioner and let's sculpt propaganda)))

          skipping low
        2. timokhin-aa
          3 October 2020 00: 13 New
          +1
          And how are things really there then?
          1. lucul
            lucul 3 October 2020 00: 28 New
            -4
            And how are things really there then?

            Have we transferred officers to the Black Sea Fleet? Can't we ask the current officer for even a new frigate?
            1. timokhin-aa
              3 October 2020 00: 35 New
              +2
              We can, they asked.
              But the question was for you.
              If the author wrote nonsense in your opinion, then you know how it is there.
  • antivirus
    antivirus 28 September 2020 11: 47 New
    -18 qualifying.
    the rumors are true - if the author knows the wrong side.
    I decided to buy a coffin for myself. Right now the Americans will read the article and rush to conquer the Crimea, then the Caucasus and Voronezh will reach.
    it was always stupid and inert.
    "Bread was difficult for a man."
    In the west, they ask for money for the military-industrial complex and the navy-army, what does this mean here?
    pigeon mail is not mentioned for communication with headquarters
  • rusboris
    rusboris 28 September 2020 14: 17 New
    22
    Naval affairs for the country's economy have always been difficult and completely unrecognizable. With the sunset of the sailing fleet, the star of the Russian fleet went down. There was a short period, the parity of the fleets of the USSR and the USA, it is good that there was no combat experience. And nowadays their time-measured miles, Soviet naval pennants, are moving.
    Military theorists are at a loss. The means of destruction have surpassed the means of protecting ships. Aircraft carriers have gone from being large airfields to being large targets. The missile cruiser class has lost its purpose. US admirals do not know what task to set the newest destroyers "Zumwalt".
    Maybe this timelessness will give Russian designers and admirals a chance to guess and spend money on ships for the war of the future, not the past.
    There are several milestones in the history of naval wars that help stakeholders to guess on the coffee grounds where to spend the country's budget. Most, as usual, will order ships for the past wars, but someone ingenious will guess the future. Unfortunately, in the history of the Russian fleet, foresight is poorly visible. In this situation, criticism of the author of the article is very useful. For example, Konashenkov's department turned into a sump for pumped-up blondes and stupid majors. Hence the quality, which can be measured on the scale of "psaki" (blunt US press secretary).
    1. ZEMCH
      ZEMCH 28 September 2020 17: 48 New
      +7
      Quote: rusboris
      For example, Konashenkov's department turned into a sump for pumped-up blondes and stupid majors. Hence the quality, which can be measured on the scale of "psaki" (blunt US press secretary).

      Judging by the texts that are given in the article, they were written by people far from the teachings and the fleet, both in geographic and mental meaning. It was written without leaving the office according to the information found on the table or computer. From the composition of the participants in the exercises, to their goals)))
      I was interested in something else. namely, unloading into the water from naval military transports VTR-79 of the Dubnyak project and VTR-139

      screenshots from video:










      We try, it's already good)))
      1. rusboris
        rusboris 28 September 2020 21: 58 New
        +6
        The author of the article complains about the personal training of sailors. And he gives a deadly example. I agree completely, from personal experience. A dull fighter can quickly bring deaths to people and equipment. Previously, this was treated by the order of "procurement" of soldiers in different units. Similar in the article "woodpeckers" were taken only into the infantry. Now there is a complete failure in demography, so such "woodpeckers" can easily get into torpedoists. The only cure is a quick transfer of the "woodpecker" to a less responsible position. And you need to get acquainted with the personnel in the training. Do not regret business trips from the ship.
        1. ZEMCH
          ZEMCH 28 September 2020 23: 00 New
          +3
          Quote: rusboris
          And you need to get acquainted with the personnel in the training. Do not spare business trips from the ship.

          At the end of the nineties, we could not supply HP and a third of combat-ready ships, we only let ships with the headquarters on board from the formation at sea, because there was no trust in the crew assembled for going out "with the world on a string". There were few contractors, there were not enough conscripts for everyone, they took whom they gave. For a shortened service life, it was not realistic to train. Hence the failure to maintain equipment. Then there was a general failure in the recruitment of officers ("Serdyukov" training of sergeants in military schools).
      2. timokhin-aa
        29 September 2020 12: 31 New
        -1
        Well, having 7 or 8 (I don't remember) BDK on the payroll is somehow difficult to do without such tricks.
      3. Victorio
        Victorio 29 September 2020 23: 11 New
        0
        Quote: ZEMCH
        I was interested in something else. namely, unloading into the water from naval military transports VTR-79 of the Dubnyak project and VTR-139

        ===
        interesting info. not fast, there is only one crane on the transport. it is not entirely clear whether the crew and the landing force are in the car, or are they getting off the boat?
  • Escobar
    Escobar 29 September 2020 13: 25 New
    +1
    For you, there are a lot of bukaf in the article, and you just finished it? The sad situation at the Black Sea Fleet has been analyzed in detail. You may not want to believe as much as you like, until the roasted rooster (another Tsushima) bites, then we run in. How many times
  • Ryusey
    Ryusey 29 September 2020 17: 24 New
    -3
    And besides hysteria, what in essence can you argue where exactly the author is wrong?)
  • Escobar
    Escobar 30 September 2020 07: 04 New
    -2
    Duc you have already laid out on the shelves why the World Cup is conditionally combat-ready, whether the picture is better in our other fleets.
  • max702
    max702 1 October 2020 13: 24 New
    +1
    The author should understand that TODAY only the fleet is not at war with the fleet! At the beginning of the database of the fleet of partners, it makes no sense to sharply glaze over the home port of the capital and other settlements of these "comrades" on the basis of this there is no point in measuring the Navy with pipis! The fleet is needed solely to deter the "Papuans", which we are now seeing .. So the cry of Yaroslavna is absolutely irrelevant, thank God, the RF Ministry of Defense understands this by investing the minimum necessary funds into a black hole called the Russian Navy .. Boots, walkie-talkies, etc. for infantry purchases made with the money saved are an order of magnitude more necessary and important.
    1. timokhin-aa
      1 October 2020 14: 03 New
      0
      At the beginning of the database of the fleet of partners, the port of registration of the capital and other settlements of these "comrades" should be sharply glazed on the basis of this, it makes no sense to measure the Navy with pipis!


      This is some kind of military doctrine of a caveman.
      1. max702
        max702 1 October 2020 14: 07 New
        +1
        No, I understand that playing naval battle is interesting to someone, but the understanding is that if you drowned a ship and immediately left without a drome / family / country, it will abruptly stop such a desire .. And this is exactly the doctrine we have been observing for 75 years in fact (whether wargame fans like it or not.) ..
        1. timokhin-aa
          1 October 2020 14: 09 New
          +1
          In fact, everything is not reduced to a nuclear war of self-destruction and the United States.
          1. max702
            max702 1 October 2020 15: 00 New
            +1
            And whose planes and ships are the opponents of the author, and who recently again from the article tested us for strength? Or do you have doubts that NATO, like the entire bourgeois world, is not the United States? Are we with Brazil or Mexico as opponents, or maybe it's Laos or Argentina? You understand, we are either at war with the United States with comrades (and there is only one method) or with the Papuans for whom the current fleet is behind the eyes ... I wasted money trying to catch up with the hegemon in the sea power, because it is unrealistic .. Therefore, what is being done is quite enough ..
            1. timokhin-aa
              1 October 2020 15: 06 New
              +2
              You just never bother with such a thing as "thinking". Who pushed Saakashvilli in the back in 2008? USA.
              Was there a nuclear war? No.
              And there was a sea battle, albeit one.

              In addition to the United States, we have options to fight in bulk. Poland, Turkey, Japan, and it is not at all necessary that the Yankees will fit there openly and immediately.

              And with any troglodytes, everything is simple - at the first signs of war, we self-destruct along with a potential enemy and that's it.
              But in real life, this is not done, and even if a nuclear war is inevitable, time will be won to save at least a part of the population, the enemy will be misled about our intentions to use strategic nuclear forces, measures will be implemented to ensure the surprise of the introduction of strategic nuclear forces or simply nuclear weapons, and all this will take time, during which it will be necessary to fight with conventional weapons.

              "To kill everyone" cannot and is not the goal of military strategy.
              1. max702
                max702 1 October 2020 15: 53 New
                0
                How did this naval battle end for Georgia? What I told the Papuans and what is available is enough.
                We will cope with Poland, Turkey, and Japan too, provided that the United States does not harness .. And forget about the rescue in a nuclear war! In real life, the living will envy the dead .. It's just that if you don't lie to yourself, all these numerous fantasies about "sea battle" and other limited conflicts do not make sense, and since there are realists in the Defense Ministry, no one suffers from this nonsense ..
                1. timokhin-aa
                  1 October 2020 16: 00 New
                  0
                  How did this naval battle end for Georgia?


                  And how will it end next time for non-Georgia? And for us? In that battle, we almost drowned an anti-ship missile neutral cargo ship.

                  And if in Mediterranean a rocket was driven into a cruise ship?


                  For the rest - remove the canopy gun, this is not a kindergarten.
                  How can you deal with Japan there? And yes, the Americans will climb in, but in a smart way, so that they just stick our flags, and not be exposed to the blow.
                  1. max702
                    max702 6 October 2020 08: 01 New
                    0
                    And you need to use Solvo "Would" less often and look at facts and reality ..
                    Quote: timokhin-aa
                    For the rest - remove the canopy gun, this is not a kindergarten.
                    1. timokhin-aa
                      6 October 2020 09: 24 New
                      -1
                      The reality is fully described in the article, and in a very softened form. And I will definitely remove the word "would" from everywhere after the next serious conflict, which our country will face.

                      But in this case you may be a little ashamed. When it turns out that the cannon can not kill, and that the enemies only laugh from him.
            2. ccsr
              ccsr 1 October 2020 20: 15 New
              0
              Quote: max702
              You understand, we are either at war with the United States with comrades (and there is only one method) or with the Papuans for whom the current fleet is behind the eyes ... It was a waste of money trying to catch up with the hegemon in the sea power because it is unrealistic ..

              He will never understand this - they have a naval blinkeredness and only memories of the victories of Ushakov and Nakhimov, and the fact that in the Great Patriotic War our fleet played a secondary role, their religion does not allow them to recognize. Anyone who has an idea of ​​a future nuclear war understands that we only need nuclear submarines, and then as a fact of the threat to the continental United States in terms of flight time. And all the other naval tales are designed for housewives - not a single military professional who has an objective view of weapons systems takes them seriously, because he understands how vulnerable and expensive the surface fleet is, which means it must be built according to different principles.
              1. Fizik M
                Fizik M 3 October 2020 11: 09 New
                -1
                Quote: ccsr
                Anyone with an idea of ​​a future nuclear war understands that we only need nuclear submarines, and then as a fact of the threat to the continental United States in terms of flight time

                fool
                ooo how everything is running lol
                YOU these YOUR "analyzes" in the "jar", and give the doctor tomorrow lol
              2. max702
                max702 6 October 2020 08: 00 New
                0
                In fact, we do not need the nuclear submarine because of the extreme vulnerability of our "partners" to the submarine submarine .. All SSBNs will be stupidly destroyed in the ocean or will be fired while standing at their own pier .. Just for the nuclear strike of the nuclear submarine, a surface fleet is needed, for everything else, even Morephiles like Timokhin recognize its complete uselessness! The flight time ALREADY does not matter, what difference will it arrive in 20 minutes or in five minutes anyway neither side will have time to destroy the enemy's strategic nuclear forces .. Therefore, at best, the fleet has multipurpose nuclear submarines as a universal tool, frigates, corvettes, minesweepers, troop transports and other support ..
                1. ccsr
                  ccsr 6 October 2020 12: 39 New
                  0
                  Quote: max702
                  In fact, we do not need nuclear submarines either because of the extreme vulnerability of our "partners" to ASW.

                  I cannot agree with this, if only because the removal of our nuclear weapons at sea will already require additional costs from the enemy for their tracking and destruction.
                  As for vulnerability, I think the creation of false targets and the setting of various interference will make it difficult to detect the nuclear submarine, you just need to seriously deal with it.
                  Quote: max702
                  All SSBNs will be stupidly destroyed in the ocean, or they will be pulled while standing at their own pier ..

                  This is a delusion, and as a counterexample, France, which, on the contrary, transferred all its ballistic missiles to the submarine fleet in order to reduce the impact on its territory.
                  Quote: max702
                  Just for the implementation of a nuclear strike on a nuclear submarine, a surface fleet is needed, for everything else, even the Timokhin-type Morephiles admit its complete uselessness!

                  Here I partially agree - after all, we must ensure the detection and destruction of enemy nuclear submarines, and we cannot do without a surface fleet. The question, in my opinion, is on a different plane - it is necessary to abandon a number of warships, and vice versa, to develop those structures that are responsible for anti-submarine defense in the fleet.
                  However, I get the idea that the naval officers themselves cannot decide on their concept - as they say, they both want and prick, so they are waiting for the master to judge them. And our "master" in this matter does not understand well, so that we can break the wood for more than one decade, as with the same "Mistrals".
                  1. Fizik M
                    Fizik M 6 October 2020 13: 24 New
                    -1
                    Quote: ccsr
                    As for vulnerability, I think creating false targets and setting various obstacles

                    Zadova, sit down deuce! Physics.
                    In the most informative and distant low frequency range, this is PHYSICAL IMPOSSIBLE.
                    Quote: ccsr
                    a counterexample France, which, on the contrary, transferred all of its ballistic missiles to the submarine fleet in order to reduce the impact on its territory.

                    fool
                    probably amerovskie submarines only and do what they are trying to track the Gauls SSBNs?
                    lol
                    Quote: ccsr
                    Here I agree

                    Zadova, you are always talking nonsense wassat and crush nonsense!
                  2. max702
                    max702 9 October 2020 08: 34 New
                    0
                    Well, the example of France is extremely incorrect .. Firstly, they have long been an appendage of the Anglo-Saxons, and from this it follows, and secondly, they have categorically different tasks, unlike our fleet, they need nuclear weapons only for prestige and not loss of competencies, and if we take into account the geography of France, then yes, the nuclear submarine with missiles for them is an ideal option, we don't need the Strategic Missile Forces that silos that PGRK perfectly solve all problems .. Regarding tracking, it is enough for this universal nuclear submarines because the devil knows what ammunition they have, the same "zircons" with special warheads share the whole infrastructure "partners" to zero, it is known they have it mainly sea + 100 km from the coast. Regarding PLO, I agree that it is simply a necessary thing, but here everything is just and logically not necessary for the AUG and other mastodons, to protect their coastal waters and it is enough, to block all possible squares of missile launch is physically impossible, because missile technologies are developing an order of magnitude faster than naval ones. I agree in the heads of the naval, they basically understand their absolute uselessness, therefore, they are trying to pull the owl onto the globe in order to at least somehow justify their existence ..
                    1. ccsr
                      ccsr 9 October 2020 11: 18 New
                      +1
                      Quote: max702
                      and if we take into account the geography of France, then yes, nuclear submarines with missiles are ideal for them

                      I cited this example in order to make it clear that we should also choose the best option for deploying our strategic nuclear forces, and not be monkey looking at the US fleet.

                      Quote: max702
                      the same "zircons" with special warheads divide the entire infrastructure of "partners" by zero,

                      Unfortunately, hoping for Zircons is just another empty undertaking - the range of their use is too short, which is why it is promising to place them on aircraft carriers, and not on ships, and even more so on nuclear submarines. The American fleet will not approach our shores within the range of their action, which means that either we will again have to chase after their fleets and will be left without pants, or place them on long-range aircraft and naval aviation.
                      Quote: max702
                      Regarding the mess in the heads of the naval, I agree, in principle, they understand their absolute uselessness, therefore, they are trying to pull the owl onto the globe in order to at least somehow justify their existence ..

                      It became clear back in the days of Gorshkov, but he was Brezhnev's favorite, so the naval did what they thought of, and our political leaders came to meet them, such was the authority of this naval commander.
                    2. max702
                      max702 11 October 2020 22: 16 New
                      0
                      We do not know anything about the range of zircons .. Even if 1000 km is enough for today .. I remember when they said about Caliber that many simply did not believe they shot from the Caspian Sea and blamed it on the incompetence of the journalist .. And then how it happened .. The same will be with Zircons and Daggers ..
                    3. ccsr
                      ccsr 12 October 2020 11: 37 New
                      +1
                      Quote: max702
                      We do not know anything about the range of zircons ..

                      According to various sources, it goes about 1000 km or maybe more, but still this class belongs to the RMSD, otherwise it will not work. And this is already not enough in the military confrontation with the United States in the maritime theater of operations, which, knowing about such weapons, are unlikely to trample to our shores at a distance of less than 1 km.
                      Quote: max702
                      I remember when they said about the Caliber that many people had shot from the Caspian Sea, they simply did not believe it and attributed it to the incompetence of the journalist.

                      The question in this case must be considered what kind of carrier will be for Zircon - ship or aviation. If it is a shipborne one, then it will not give us any advantages in the ocean, which is why, in my opinion, only aircraft carriers will be able to use them effectively if they do not enter the ship's air defense zones of the American fleets.
                      Quote: max702
                      The same will happen with Zircons and Daggers ..

                      I think we need to reduce the number of weapons that fall into the INF category and make as much effort as possible to develop something that flies beyond 5,5 km. True, the combined use will be used for a long time, but the general concept is still behind weapons, the range of which goes beyond the limits of the INF Treaty.
                    4. max702
                      max702 13 October 2020 20: 58 New
                      0
                      Quote: ccsr
                      If a shipborne one, then it will not give us any advantages in the ocean, which is why, in my opinion, only aircraft carriers will be able to use them effectively if they do not enter the shipborne air defense zones of the American fleets.

                      Yes, on the one hand, it is difficult for the surface fleet to apply Zircon, but nevertheless, having a long arm of 1000 km is a good help in the actual confrontation because the sea is not rubber and the threat from any carrier ship of this with a radius of 1000 km will have to be taken into account .. Well, if you recall the nuclear submarine, then it makes sense. And the fact that the range of missile-based weapons will grow and thereby more and more neutralize the maritime component of the "parterre" forces is obvious.
                    5. ccsr
                      ccsr 13 October 2020 21: 27 New
                      +1
                      Quote: max702
                      And the fact that the range of missile-based weapons will grow and thereby more and more neutralize the maritime component of the "parterre" forces is obvious.

                      Quite right, and there are at least two reasons for this. First, whether we like it or not, in order to reduce costs and improve reliability, we will have to place more and more anti-ship weapons on our territory, and not at sea. This concept fits the creation of the latest hypersonic systems, against which the ship's air defenses are still powerless, and an increase in their flight range.
                      Secondly, it is already quite obvious that subsonic cruise missiles are becoming obsolete not only because of the long flight time, but also because they can only be used against weak opponents.
                      But the price of the issue remains open, and what the transition to a fundamentally different approach to our anti-ship defense system in all fleets will result in. True, the local naval "specialists" are hardly privy to these matters, which is why all their forecasts are unreliable, and more like fortune telling on coffee grounds.
  • imobile2008
    imobile2008 28 September 2020 10: 09 New
    36
    Correct article! They will not move without criticism. And from the articles, our electronic warfare from space drove the US submarines already sick of incompetence. Although attracts "urakryakalok"
    1. Grandfather
      Grandfather 28 September 2020 10: 51 New
      24
      Quote: imobile2008
      Correct article! They won't move without criticism

      I'm afraid they won't move with criticism, I have said for a long time and I repeat myself many times that our surface fleet is "funny", you can't look without tears ... there are a lot of pumps for "uryakalok", but in fact - "zilch" ... 37 thousand. km, sea border, and such a fleet ... well, I swear it is impossible ... yachts from the "owners" are cooler.
      1. Mikhalych 70
        Mikhalych 70 28 September 2020 17: 28 New
        +2
        I do not think that the owners of the yachts will want to share funds for the construction and maintenance of ships for the Russian Navy
  • Livonetc
    Livonetc 28 September 2020 10: 13 New
    -52 qualifying.
    Well, wow, what a prolonged verbal diarrhea.
    Probably the author smelled something.
    1. timokhin-aa
      28 September 2020 11: 00 New
      43
      The author served in this fleet, then he was engaged in the development of torpedo weapons and knows how it is. And you?
      1. Fan-fan
        Fan-fan 28 September 2020 12: 39 New
        12
        And this Livonetc can only throw at the fan.
  • Andrei from Chelyabinsk
    Andrei from Chelyabinsk 28 September 2020 10: 23 New
    36
    Article for 5+! That's for sure, laughter through tears ...
  • Galleon
    Galleon 28 September 2020 10: 24 New
    44
    If eyewash is elevated to the rank of state domestic policy, why shouldn't it be in the navy? It was enough even under the USSR. Wait, according to the results of such exercises, there may be some more rewards. They have their own reality - a parallel one. And whoever has 17 sput a month is the middle class. And SET-65 is a modern torpedo.
    1. 210ox
      210ox 28 September 2020 10: 48 New
      22
      This is what the mind rejects this, on the one hand, liberalistic nonsense, on the other hand, para-patriotic window dressing. The article is of course critical, but still I think it is correct.
      1. Galleon
        Galleon 28 September 2020 11: 49 New
        19
        Quote: 210ox
        This is what the mind rejects this, on the one hand, liberalistic nonsense, on the other hand, para-patriotic show.

        I agree with you. Only now liberalistic nonsense is uttered more often by young people who do not yet have meaningful experience, and quite sophisticated people are engaged in parapatriotic show, who catch a whole heap of sympathizers. Of these sympathizers and contributors, one person spoke beautifully:
        “On closer examination, it turns out that any powerful increase in external power (be it political or religious) strikes a significant part of people with stupidity. One gets the impression that this is downright sociological and psychological law. The power of some needs the stupidity of others. The process does not consist in the sudden degradation or withering away of some (say, intellectual) human inclinations, but in the fact that a person, suppressed by the spectacle of an all-crushing power, loses inner independence and (more or less unconsciously) renounces the search for his own position in the situation that is being created. Stupidity is often accompanied by stubbornness, but this should not be misleading as to her lack of independence. Communicating with such a person, you just feel that you are not talking with him, not with his personality, but with the slogans and appeals that have mastered him. "
        Dietrich Bonhoeffer, pastor, anti-fascist.
    2. kapitan92
      kapitan92 28 September 2020 11: 03 New
      19
      Quote: Galleon
      And SET-65 is a modern torpedo.

      hi
      And what is modern about it?
      Introduced into service in 1965. There were a few more modifications. Range (at speed) - 16 km (40 knots)
      Effective range - 5500-6500 m.
      She should already be in the museum!
      1. The comment was deleted.
        1. The comment was deleted.
      2. Galleon
        Galleon 28 September 2020 11: 43 New
        33
        Captain, have you noticed my sad irony? well, you do not consider a person with a salary of 17 tr. "middle class", as zero (and with it his team) does, right? You cannot rely in a war on 50-year-old weapons - in our history, such lessons are not like the bumps on the forehead - everything is covered in blood, and everything is not enough. Eh, Russia ...
        1. kapitan92
          kapitan92 28 September 2020 12: 31 New
          10
          Quote: Galleon
          Captain, have you noticed my sad irony?

          drinks hi
          Quote: Galleon
          Well, you do not consider a person with a salary of 17 tr. "middle class", as zero (and with it his team) does, right?

          With "successes" in the economy, soon and 17 sput. for joy will be. fellow
          Good luck! hi
      3. Vadim237
        Vadim237 28 September 2020 12: 36 New
        -4
        In Russia, torpedoes have always lagged behind Western ones.
        1. PSih2097
          PSih2097 28 September 2020 15: 28 New
          +3
          Quote: Vadim237
          In Russia, torpedoes have always lagged behind Western ones.

          I don’t understand why the new ones are not being adopted, if there are some jambs, then they need to be corrected, and not to say that what is there for our century will be enough, but "there at least the grass will not grow"
          1. ccsr
            ccsr 28 September 2020 20: 10 New
            0
            Quote: PSih2097
            I don’t understand why the new ones are not being adopted, if there are some jambs, then they need to be corrected, and not to say that what is there for our century will be enough, but "there at least the grass will not grow"

            Because the general concept of building the fleet has changed in terms of surface warships - they are made low-tonnage, but with an increased flight range of cruise missiles, which will allow reaching any enemy without leaving the distance of a torpedo attack. The same is now happening in aviation, where unmanned aerial vehicles have begun to serve as reconnaissance aircraft, and will soon begin to replace attack helicopters and attack aircraft.
            The dialectics of weapons development has led to this - the "long arm" and "delivery speed" will bury all other weapons systems that do not meet these requirements. Conventional torpedo armament for surface ships is a thing of the past - there will be no future war between squadrons of ships where torpedoes can be used. That is why they are no longer given the same attention as it was 30-50 years ago, and relatively inexpensive missile weapons have become their gravedigger.
            1. ban
              ban 28 September 2020 22: 02 New
              -2
              Sorry, but you wrote nonsense. RKR pr. 58 - take an interest
              1. timokhin-aa
                29 September 2020 12: 32 New
                -2
                This is a troll, type his nickname on the Russian keyboard. This is what he does.
                1. ban
                  ban 29 September 2020 14: 21 New
                  -2
                  Yes, today they became active here, I see laughing
                2. ban
                  ban 29 September 2020 14: 37 New
                  -1
                  type his nickname on the Russian keyboard

                  good
                3. PSih2097
                  PSih2097 29 September 2020 17: 44 New
                  0
                  Quote: timokhin-aa
                  This is a troll, type his nickname on the Russian keyboard. This is what he does.

                  And who was called a troll? otherwise I see deleted messages ...
            2. PSih2097
              PSih2097 29 September 2020 17: 48 New
              0
              Quote: ccsr
              Conventional torpedo armament of surface ships is a thing of the past - there will be no future war between squadrons of ships where torpedoes can be used.

              But there is a nuclear submarine (SSBN, MCSAPL, PLAT / SSGN), diesel-electric submarine, submarine with VNEU, what about them?
              1. ccsr
                ccsr 29 September 2020 19: 08 New
                0
                Quote: PSih2097
                But there is a nuclear submarine (SSBN, MCSAPL, PLAT / SSGN), diesel-electric submarine, submarine with VNEU, what about them?

                And nuclear submarines with missile weapons should not participate in torpedo attacks at all - their main task is to release the entire ammo space in the patrol area, which will be inaccessible to enemy ships or they should be guarded by our ships and anti-submarine aircraft. Although, of course, nuclear submarines cannot do without torpedo armament for the time being, but I think it is more promising to launch missiles from a submerged position with the subsequent defeat of both surface ships and enemy submarines. The range of destruction of such a system gives significant advantages to our nuclear submarines.
                1. timokhin-aa
                  30 September 2020 11: 46 New
                  -1
                  You just need:

                  1. Somehow go to the designated area
                  2. Survive the launch.
                  3. Leave after launch

                  And the main thing is to get the CO. With this problem.

                  And so that the enemy does not repulse a volley. This is also a problem.
                  1. ccsr
                    ccsr 30 September 2020 12: 29 New
                    0
                    Quote: timokhin-aa
                    1. Somehow go to the designated area

                    We have dozens of positions in arctic waters where the enemy cannot control and destroy us after we leave.
                    Quote: timokhin-aa
                    2. Survive the launch.

                    In the same way as they are now surviving during military service.
                    Quote: timokhin-aa
                    3. Leave after launch

                    This is not guaranteed, and is the cost of a nuclear war, and the naval officers are well aware of this when they go to study as submariners.

                    Quote: timokhin-aa
                    And the main thing is to get the CO. With this problem.

                    This is really the main problem, and all efforts must be devoted to the development of communication and control systems for nuclear submarines that are on alert so that they receive a signal simultaneously with all our strategic nuclear forces. I think this can be solved, taking into account a variety of communication systems and the possibility of surfacing to eject buoys, or create a system of autonomous drifting buoys that will receive combat control signals and broadcast them through sonar systems. But this is just my guess - modern naval specialists will better understand this.
                    Quote: timokhin-aa
                    And so that the enemy does not repulse a volley. This is also a problem.

                    We will not give a damn about the enemy, if only the exchange of nuclear strikes begins - do you hope to survive until victory? Do not be so optimistic, only those who have a poor understanding of the consequences of exchanging such blows can believe it.
                    1. timokhin-aa
                      30 September 2020 18: 29 New
                      0
                      We have dozens of positions in arctic waters where the enemy cannot control and destroy us after we leave.


                      For example?

                      In the same way as they are now surviving during military service.


                      Now the enemy is not shooting, just walking quietly side by side.

                      We will not give a damn about the enemy, if only the exchange of nuclear strikes begins - do you hope to survive until victory? Do not be so optimistic, only those who have a poor understanding of the consequences of exchanging such blows can believe it.


                      Your fabrications, as usual, are past in this case.
                      1. ccsr
                        ccsr 30 September 2020 18: 41 New
                        0
                        Quote: timokhin-aa
                        For example?

                        Along the entire Northern Sea Route - enough for you?
                        Quote: timokhin-aa
                        Now the enemy is not shooting, just walking quietly side by side.

                        They will have more escort costs, and our anti-submarine defense systems do not exist in vain. So it is not known whether they will be able to approach our nuclear submarines with impunity on the line of attack, especially if our nuclear submarines receive operational information about the location of the enemy.
                        Quote: timokhin-aa
                        Your fabrications, as usual, are past in this case.

                        You are not able to formulate your thoughts, even in the form of refutations - this is the level of your knowledge.
                        Here is a military specialist and wrote an article.

                        By the way, "Maxim Klimov" is not your pseudonym?
                      2. timokhin-aa
                        1 October 2020 14: 00 New
                        +1
                        Along the entire Northern Sea Route - enough for you?


                        Are you out of your mind? They are there like at home, I would not be surprised if FOSS was quietly deployed. In shallow water, they are much more confident than us.

                        Adding an advantage in detection range, an advantage in range, and?

                        They will have more escort costs, and our anti-submarine defense systems do not exist in vain.


                        We have nothing for a long time, in the Pacific Ocean the Sturgeons still calmly walked over hydrophones and ours did not hear them, since then the situation has only worsened.

                        You are not in the subject at all, but with the stubbornness of a fanatic you are talking nonsense.

                        So it is not known whether they will be able to approach our nuclear submarines with impunity on the line of attack, especially if our nuclear submarines receive operational information about the location of the enemy.


                        They regularly and secretly "approach the line of attack" and our submarines will not be able to obtain information about anything under the ice, this is impossible.

                        Buy yourself a toy for your fingers, do not torture the buttons anymore.

                        "Maxim Klimov" is not your pseudonym?


                        Author - M.A. Klimov, captain of the 3rd rank, commander of the BCH-3 nuclear submarine of the Pacific Fleet, later - the developer of naval underwater weapons is a well-known person acting on his own behalf.

                        Do not drag your nonsense here, please.
                      3. ccsr
                        ccsr 1 October 2020 19: 58 New
                        -1
                        Quote: timokhin-aa
                        Are you out of your mind? They are there like at home, I would not be surprised if FOSS was quietly deployed. In shallow water, they are much more confident than us.

                        Such naval specialists as you, who know that enemy boats are roaming there and do not know what to do with them, having anti-submarine aviation, have apparently gone crazy.
                        Quote: timokhin-aa
                        Adding an advantage in detection range, an advantage in range, and?

                        And we silently destroy them when found in a threatened period - or do you only know how to tear vests on your chest?
                        Quote: timokhin-aa
                        in the Pacific Ocean, the Sturgeons still calmly walked over hydrophones and ours did not hear them, since then the situation has only worsened.

                        Those that walked in the Atlantic were even more dangerous for our central regions - maybe it's enough to carry nonsense, or did you just study ballet steps at the school? At the theater of operations, there were more than 1000 aviation carriers of nuclear weapons alone, plus more than 110 Pershing-2 installations, not counting tactical nuclear weapons and naval nuclear forces, and it never occurred to anyone in the group that we should have boiling water - this is anyone who there served will confirm. So it’s in vain that you are driving American nuclear submarines in the Pacific Ocean over here - we did not take them into account, we had enough of our own goals. You will intimidate your wife with low-noise SPs - your crying of Yaroslavna is not interesting to me.

                        Quote: timokhin-aa
                        They regularly and secretly "approach the line of attack" and our submarines will not be able to obtain information about anything under the ice, this is impossible.

                        Now it may not be possible, but it is technically feasible if they seriously engage in autonomous buoys that can conduct exploration under the ice or being in the thickness of the Arctic ice.
                        Quote: timokhin-aa
                        Author - M.A. Klimov, captain of the 3rd rank, commander of the BCH-3 nuclear submarine of the Pacific Fleet, later - the developer of naval underwater weapons is a well-known person acting on his own behalf.

                        Is this the one that naval experts refute?
                        Disability of military expert Klimov
                        After reading the statements of the retired naval officer Maxim Klimov in Nezavisimaya Gazeta, I, like many other interested people, first of all naval sailors, asked where he got his information about the Northern Navy from and why he was covering combat effectiveness so widely throughout the world Russian warships?

                        https://ren.tv/blog/dmitrii-ledovskoi/408673-nedeesposobnost-voennogo-eksperta-klimova
                        Quote: timokhin-aa
                        Do not drag your nonsense here, please.

                        Have you written anything clever about yourself to listen to your fantasies? I didn’t notice something, so I’m scamming with agitation, trying to prove that you learned something from people like Klimov ...
                      4. timokhin-aa
                        1 October 2020 22: 56 New
                        +1
                        You are just an unhealthy person.
                      5. Fizik M
                        Fizik M 3 October 2020 10: 25 New
                        0
                        Quote: ccsr
                        they know that enemy boats are roaming there and do not know what to do with them, having anti-submarine aircraft.

                        tell us lol
                        I promise not to laugh loudly and it hurts not to kick
                        Quote: ccsr
                        And we silently destroy them when found in a threatened period - or do you only know how to tear vests on your chest?

                        with Dobn RGAB RSL-16M even in the "newest" PPS at the level of several HUNDREDS OF METERS?
                        Quote: ccsr
                        if they seriously engage in autonomous buoys that can conduct reconnaissance under the ice or being in the thickness of the Arctic ice

                        The "autonomous buoy" in the form of the RSL-16M has a modern low-noise submarine expansion at the level of SEVERAL HUNDREDS OF METERS
                        https://ren.tv/blog/dmitrii-ledovskoi/408673-nedeesposobnost-voennogo-eksperta-klimova

                        Monsieur, do YOU ​​have absolutely "cuckoo"? fool
                        YOU first read what a joke this "Yksperd" Ledovskikh carries!
                      6. ccsr
                        ccsr 3 October 2020 14: 19 New
                        0
                        Quote: Fizik M

                        The "autonomous buoy" in the form of the RSL-16M has a modern low-noise submarine expansion at the level of SEVERAL HUNDREDS OF METERS

                        So this is not the only buoy, because there are others:
                        Hydroacoustic buoy RGB-1A -
                        Aviation radio-hydroacoustic buoy of passive type of non-directional action for detecting submarines in a submerged position by the noise generated by them and transmitting the relevant information via radio link about the presence of a submarine within its range.
                        TX: cable length = 35-70 m, submarine detection range = 2 km, continuous operation time = 2,5 h, radiation operation time = 45 min., self-destruction time = 3 h, communication range = 40 km, drop height = 200-2000 m, weight = 15 kg, launch speed = 700 km / h, splash speed = 35 m / s, wave height = up to 5 points, set = 24 pcs.

                        However, you are simply illiterate in this matter, because fifty years ago the Americans already had an autonomous sea buoy with a diameter of 1,8 m and a height of 15-18 meters with a nuclear power plant for many years of duty. He could take several parameters and dump information on a satellite or an airplane upon ascent, but for you this is still a Chinese letter.
                        Quote: Fizik M
                        for a start, read what kind of Achinea this "Yksperd" Ledovskikh carries!

                        While I am reading your verbiage, and I have no reason to believe you more than Ledovsky. By the way, you, as an ordinary verbiage, declare that
                        Quote: Fizik M

                        "Monsieur, there is no such problem for 30-40 years"

                        So prove how quickly you can organize a two-way communication session with the nuclear submarine out of schedule and how long it will take. Then we'll see how much you are in the subject. In the meantime, you can continue to bait sea tales, because they say in vain that "the hare is not a sailor, it will not flutter":
                        monsieur, we are talking about ANTI-WATER torpedoes

                        You probably won't understand that the range of use of such torpedoes is very limited, which is why they are inferior to missile weapons, but for you this is a dark forest.
                      7. Fizik M
                        Fizik M 3 October 2020 16: 53 New
                        0
                        Quote: ccsr
                        So this is not the only buoy, because there are others:
                        Hydroacoustic buoy RGB-1A -

                        fool
                        Musier! YOUR RSL-1 ANCIENT RSL-15 FOR A QUARTER CENTURY !!!!
                        With all the consequences

                        Quote: ccsr
                        about fifty years ago, the Americans already had an autonomous sea buoy with a diameter of 1,8 m and a height of 15-18 meters with a nuclear power plant for many years of duty

                        fool
                        collect these YOUR "brain tests" in a jar - and to the doctor lol
                        I'm sorry, but I do not have a medical education

                        Quote: ccsr
                        I have no reason to believe you more than Ledovsky.

                        wassat
                        For both of you in the "6th ward" lol
                        "two of a Kind"

                        Quote: ccsr
                        So prove then how quickly you can organize a two-way communication session with the nuclear submarine out of schedule and how long it will take.

                        enough ONE SIDED
                        but if necessary - you can also DOUBLE
                        for example one of the most outstanding BS 971 projects took place on the CONTINUOUS communication program (for most of BS)

                        Quote: ccsr
                        You probably won't understand that the range of use of such torpedoes is very limited, which is why they are inferior to missile weapons


                        Monsieur, YOU don’t understand WHAT WE ARE SPEAKING ABOUT at all
                        and stupidly fuck shit and shit!
                      8. ccsr
                        ccsr 3 October 2020 17: 08 New
                        0
                        Quote: Fizik M
                        Musier! YOUR RSL-1 ANCIENT RSL-15 FOR A QUARTER CENTURY !!!!
                        With all the consequences

                        So why then are the smart guy telling here that it is impossible to reveal the movement of American submarines?
                        Quote: Fizik M
                        I'm sorry, but I do not have a medical education

                        So you don’t have it at all - so don’t apologize, many have already understood this from your argumentation.

                        Quote: Fizik M

                        enough ONE SIDED
                        but if necessary -

                        Come on, tell us about one-way communication at a depth of 200-300 meters in the Pacific Ocean on the initiative of the fleet headquarters - how long will it take to confirm that the signal has been received?
                        who is the "naval specialist"? Ledovsky?

                        I don't know, but judging by Timokhin and you personally, you are one field of berries. Only now Ledovsky is more balanced in reasoning, judging by the fact that, unlike both of you, he gives facts.
                      9. Fizik M
                        Fizik M 3 October 2020 17: 17 New
                        0
                        Quote: ccsr
                        So why then are the smart guy telling here that it is impossible to reveal the movement of American submarines?

                        fool
                        shortly - to the doctor (YOU)
                        WORDS YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND
                        maybe the injection will help ... lol
                        Quote: ccsr
                        travani us about one-way communication at a depth of 200-300 meters

                        FACE ABOUT TABLE
                        http://elib.biblioatom.ru/text/rol-nauki-v-sozdanii-podvodnogo-flota_2008/go,414/
                        however, the abbreviation WBAU will probably be too complicated for YOUR "cerebellum" lol
                        By the way, why does YOU burn from 200-300m? so that our submarines would "ring louder" at such a depth (due to compressed acoustic protection)
                        Quote: ccsr
                        Ledovsky is more balanced in reasoning, judging by the fact that, unlike both of you, he gives facts.

                        fool
                        well, give these "facts" lol
                        ZHDEMS
                        angry
                  2. Fizik M
                    Fizik M 3 October 2020 17: 59 New
                    0
                    Quote: ccsr
                    So this is not the only buoy, because there are others:
                    Hydroacoustic buoy RGB-1A - submarine detection range = 2 km

                    fool
                    when they made the RSL-1 the "typical target" was at the BEST case "Permit" (or rather, "Skate")
                    FOR THIS WAS AT THE BEGINNING OF THE 60s OF THE PAST CENTURY
              2. Fizik M
                Fizik M 3 October 2020 16: 54 New
                0
                Quote: ccsr
                This is the one refuted naval specialists?

                fool
                who is the "naval specialist"? Ledovsky? lol
                from a maximum of THEATER (provincial) "professional" wassat
          2. Fizik M
            Fizik M 3 October 2020 10: 28 New
            0
            Quote: ccsr
            Along the entire Northern Sea Route - enough for you?

            fool
            ooo, what amantias you have ... lol
            Quote: ccsr
            and our anti-submarine defense systems do not exist in vain. So it is not known whether they will be able to approach our nuclear submarines with impunity on the line of attack, especially if our nuclear submarines receive operational information about the location of the enemy.

            YOU it wassat an hour not from the "6th chamber" broadcast? lol
            Quote: ccsr
            You are not able to formulate your thoughts, even in the form of refutations - this is the level of your knowledge.

            after YOU, Monsieur "referred" to the Ledovsky wassat
            with that "from where" YOU "torture Claudia" (and with what diagnosis lol ) is quite obvious
      4. Fizik M
        Fizik M 3 October 2020 10: 29 New
        0
        Quote: ccsr
        We have dozens of positions in arctic waters where the enemy cannot control and destroy us after we leave.

        it false delirium
        Quote: ccsr
        This is really the main problem, and all efforts must be devoted to the development of communication and control systems for nuclear submarines that are on alert so that they receive a signal simultaneously with all our strategic nuclear forces.

        fool
        monsieur, there is no such problem for 30-40 years
  • Fizik M
    Fizik M 3 October 2020 10: 31 New
    0
    Quote: ccsr
    And nuclear submarines with missile weapons should not participate in torpedo attacks at all - their main task is to release the entire ammunition base in the patrol area,

    to the point of missile volley YET YOU NEED TO ACHIEVE AND REACH
    Quote: ccsr
    they should be guarded by our ships and anti-submarine aircraft

    1124M and Il-38?
  • Fizik M
    Fizik M 3 October 2020 10: 34 New
    0
    Quote: ccsr
    Because the general concept of building the fleet has changed in terms of surface warships - they are made low-tonnage, but with an increased flight range of cruise missiles, which will allow reaching any enemy without leaving the distance of a torpedo attack.

    fool
    monsieur, we are talking about ANTI-WATER torpedoes

    PS DON'T FUCK BOTH, IT HURTS!
  • Volder
    Volder 29 September 2020 12: 41 New
    +1
    Quote: Vadim237
    In Russia, torpedoes have always lagged behind Western ones.
    This is because the development of torpedoes was a secondary task for us. The stake was primarily placed on anti-submarine missiles, which are more effective in speed and range.
    1. timokhin-aa
      29 September 2020 14: 15 New
      +2
      Especially under the pack ice, right?
      Especially when the taken contact must be killed in secret. Yes?
    2. Fizik M
      Fizik M 3 October 2020 10: 32 New
      +1
      Quote: Volder
      The stake was primarily placed on anti-submarine missiles, which are more effective in terms of speed and range.

      PLUR warheads usually have a torpedo
      Moreover, the UMGT-1 (its CCH) with noise immunity is VERY bad ...
  • Fizik M
    Fizik M 1 October 2020 19: 54 New
    0
    Quote: Vadim237
    In Russia, torpedoes have always lagged behind Western ones.

    our tests of AT 1998. in the USA and Germany they still cannot repeat it
  • Momotomba
    Momotomba 29 September 2020 07: 59 New
    +1
    Quote: Galleon
    SET-65 is a modern torpedo.

    I am not a connoisseur of torpedo armament, but are you sure that this torpedo was not upgraded 74 times and only the name remained from the original model? For example, the RRS P-419 already has the letter "L" in its name and is completely different from the very first, released back in 1900, some year ...
    And there were always enough woodpeckers. Well, in the 80s in Vladik, one ship "spat out" a torpedo on the deck of another. After the regulation, the contacts on the "CHECK" toggle switch were confused. The commission arrived, they repeated all the operations and the second was sent to the next deck. Nothing has changed, even the ships are the same ... Unfortunately
    1. Galleon
      Galleon 29 September 2020 08: 31 New
      +4
      I heard the story of the incident and the commission in Vladik in the 80s. It's not about woodpeckers, but about the phenomenon of damage to the state machine.
      I propose not to develop a topic that is not even known for certain. The modernization of any product is at least a chipboard, it is not worth it here. I will say briefly: you can fantasize about the modernization of SET-65, but USET-80 is real. hi
      1. Momotomba
        Momotomba 29 September 2020 08: 43 New
        0
        Is the figure at the end the year of adoption?
    2. Fizik M
      Fizik M 1 October 2020 19: 54 New
      0
      Quote: Momotomba
      But are you sure that this torpedo was not upgraded 74 times and only the name remained from the original model? For example, the RRS P-419 already has the letter "L" in its name and is completely different from the very first, released back in 1900, some year.


      The last modernization was 1987. (the book of ZNUPV Gusev, is freely available), just then "Ceramics" (this is our copy of the 1961 amerovskoy equipment) and "screwed"
      1. Momotomba
        Momotomba 1 October 2020 20: 45 New
        0
        Well, Kalashnikov in general since 47 laughing
        Well, for sure there was something else that was not reported. But the general approach is clear - good old light ...
        1. Fizik M
          Fizik M 1 October 2020 20: 57 New
          0
          Quote: Momotomba
          Well, Kalashnikov in general since 47

          Do not confuse you with hardware and electronic products wink
          1. Momotomba
            Momotomba 2 October 2020 06: 49 New
            0
            Yes, there is no electronics in the machine laughing
  • Daniil Konovalenko
    Daniil Konovalenko 28 September 2020 10: 24 New
    11
    The author's emotions are clear, there is something to compare with ...
  • cmax
    cmax 28 September 2020 10: 25 New
    17
    The reports of the Ministry of Defense are frightening. The author of the article voiced the questions correctly. Uryayaya will not work.
  • sabakina
    sabakina 28 September 2020 10: 27 New
    -24 qualifying.
    Everything will be a bunch. Believe me...
    1. Grandfather
      Grandfather 28 September 2020 10: 53 New
      +1
      Quote: sabakina
      Everything will be a bunch. Believe me...

      it would be better to build a fleet, not a "flotilla".
  • Gardamir
    Gardamir 28 September 2020 10: 32 New
    19
    Normal article. But the ideology of the VO site is the song "all is well beautiful marquise". In no case can you criticize.
    It is also impossible to criticize because the myth about the American base in Crimea is being debunked. You can fly to Novoros from Odessa, to Moscow from Kharkov.
    While everything looks like 1939, they said that we would smash the enemy with little blood. Here and now, where the air defense is shooting down Turkish and Israeli planes. How did our sailors really scare NATO?
    1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
      Andrei from Chelyabinsk 28 September 2020 10: 37 New
      29
      Quote: Gardamir
      But the ideology of the VO site is the song "all is well beautiful marquise". In no case can you criticize.

      This is you in vain. VO today, in terms of criticism, ahead of the rest of the world, the same Klimov, other resources no longer take to print
      1. Grandfather
        Grandfather 28 September 2020 10: 57 New
        17
        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        Quote: Gardamir
        But the ideology of the VO site is the song "all is well beautiful marquise". In no case can you criticize.

        This is you in vain. VO today, in terms of criticism, ahead of the rest of the world, the same Klimov, other resources no longer take to print

        Andrey, with all due respect ... does the General Staff of the Navy read VO? Does he care about our opinion (I heard this on the phone) and colleagues in VO? Or, the Commander-in-Chief of All Russia, is sitting on VO? under what "nickname" is interesting? cloudy at heart from all this, despite the "golden autumn" in the Urals.
        1. Dante Alighieri
          Dante Alighieri 28 September 2020 11: 22 New
          37
          with all due respect ... unless the General Staff of the Navy reads VO

          You still have no idea, but they still read it. The same article by Klimov, indicating those responsible for the complete failure of torpedo and anti-torpedo developments, was removed from publication precisely at the request of the Ministry of Defense. Sergei Linnik was politely asked not to expand on the topic of Russian air defense, again, people with shoulder straps, though from another department. I still remember something about Alex TV: the man, after all, clearly showed that the modernization of the T-72 is not worth the money and has many jambs. In addition, pay attention to another point: as soon as a critical article appears, material on a similar topic appears, but already broadcasting a diametrically opposite position. So that VO is read not only by retirees, middle and junior officers, sofa analysts and their sympathizers, but also by those who are directly related to the construction of the army and navy, even if not on a daily basis.
          1. Grandfather
            Grandfather 28 September 2020 12: 32 New
            +4
            Quote: Dante
            with all due respect ... unless the General Staff of the Navy reads VO

            You still have no idea, but they still read it. The same article by Klimov, indicating those responsible for the complete failure of torpedo and anti-torpedo developments, was removed from publication precisely at the request of the Ministry of Defense. Sergei Linnik was politely asked not to expand on the topic of Russian air defense, again, people with shoulder straps, though from another department. I still remember something about Alex TV: the man, after all, clearly showed that the modernization of the T-72 is not worth the money and has many jambs. In addition, pay attention to another point: as soon as a critical article appears, material on a similar topic appears, but already broadcasting a diametrically opposite position. So that VO is read not only by retirees, middle and junior officers, sofa analysts and their sympathizers, but also by those who are directly related to the construction of the army and navy, even if not on a daily basis.

            wow ... there it is like ... about Alex TV, and repressive measures against him, for the first time I hear, Major- Human! (how is he there, in Voronezh?)
            1. Dante Alighieri
              Dante Alighieri 28 September 2020 17: 39 New
              +3
              Well, by the way, I haven't heard anything like this from Alexei himself, but there were rumors on the forum, now, over a period of years, I don’t remember who exactly claimed that the periodic bans were associated just with a too active lifestyle, although I admit that it was there could be banal speculations. Until now, I incredibly regret that he left the resource, so competent and at the same time open person, who does not hesitate to convey his thoughts to ordinary people, without the pathos of "sacred knowledge" (which happens with, for example, Klimov), you still need to look. Hope he's doing well.
          2. Alexander Galaktionov
            Alexander Galaktionov 29 September 2020 09: 25 New
            0
            Sergei Linnik has not been seen for a long time and he has excellent articles on air defense, just like Alex TV tanker
            1. Dante Alighieri
              Dante Alighieri 29 September 2020 15: 19 New
              +1
              Sergey Linnik has not been seen for a long time

              Pip your tongue, Sergei is still with us. Just a month or two ago, he published fresh material on the air defense of the Republic of Korea, and in two parts. You just shouldn't expect articles from him every month. He is a responsible person and approaches the writing of his texts appropriately, and this approach takes time.
        2. timokhin-aa
          28 September 2020 12: 28 New
          25
          The Main Command of the Navy accurately reads and arranges the administration of the VO to hysterics from time to time laughing
          Verified!
          laughing
          1. Grandfather
            Grandfather 28 September 2020 12: 32 New
            18
            Quote: timokhin-aa
            The Main Command of the Navy accurately reads and arranges the administration of the VO to hysterics from time to time laughing
            Verified!
            laughing

            there is an incentive to write comes out. Respect not afraid.
          2. ccsr
            ccsr 28 September 2020 14: 02 New
            -4
            Quote: timokhin-aa
            The Main Command of the Navy accurately reads and arranges the administration of the VO to hysterics from time to time
            Verified!

            This is at the level of dreams - they didn't care what they write here, especially pensioners like you, or me, or someone else. Not a single normal acting officer in his right mind will describe in VO how things really are, and therefore the reliability of information from the field of assumptions. Well, since you yourself did not participate in strategic exercises conducted at the level of the General Staff and the Main Command of the Navy, then naturally propaganda chatter could not be distinguished even from the real staff games of the top military leadership, to which not only foreigners are not allowed, but not everyone in the leadership of the Ministry of Defense admitted.
            1. timokhin-aa
              28 September 2020 18: 40 New
              -1
              This is at the level of dreams - they didn't care what they write here


              I read what they write
            2. Fizik M
              Fizik M 3 October 2020 14: 50 New
              0
              Quote: ccsr
              since they themselves did not participate in strategic exercises conducted at the level of the General Staff and the Main Command of the Navy

              relax monsieur
              the author of the article participated
              incl. as part of military control bodies (including at the command post of OKVS)
      2. Alexander Galaktionov
        Alexander Galaktionov 29 September 2020 09: 28 New
        +1
        Andrey not so bad pr11356 there air defense is good and pr 636 new torpedoes and coastal anti-ship complexes
        1. Fizik M
          Fizik M 5 October 2020 09: 31 New
          -1
          Quote: Alexander Galaktionov
          pr11356 there good air defense

          so much so that they are in 2016. scared to shoot at a single PM24?
          Quote: Alexander Galaktionov
          and pr 636 new torpedoes

          Are you talking about "Physicist-1" (which has Gosy 2008) with an absolutely ancient telecontrol system (at the level of the Western BEGINNING 60s)?
    2. timokhin-aa
      28 September 2020 11: 01 New
      24
      Just on VO and you can criticize, one of the last such resources.
      1. Volder
        Volder 29 September 2020 14: 22 New
        0
        Quote: timokhin-aa
        Just on VO and you can criticize, one of the last such resources.
        On the website of the newspaper "Vzglyad" you still criticize.
        1. timokhin-aa
          29 September 2020 14: 23 New
          -2
          There with restrictions. And here you can cut the truth to the uterus without hesitation.
    3. antivirus
      antivirus 28 September 2020 11: 54 New
      +6
      Here and now, where the air defense is shooting down Turkish and Israeli planes. How did our sailors really scare NATO?

      --- NOTHING.
      STILL IN THE SER-70S FATHER: THE FLEET WE HAVE BECAME OCEAN, BUT LAGGER, THE USA AND ENGLISH TRADITION. TRAINING, POWER.
      OVER 30 YEARS OF DISSOLVE-STAGNATION HAS A STILL GREAT LAGGER.
      1. musorg
        musorg 28 September 2020 12: 19 New
        -25 qualifying.
        Why scare them then? The time will come and get scared themselves! I read the comments and realized that the sailors are not here, one riffraff!
        1. Grandfather
          Grandfather 28 September 2020 12: 42 New
          13
          Quote: musorg
          realized that the sailors are not here, one rascal!

          and composers. do you need to be a sailor to see that there is no fleet?
        2. antivirus
          antivirus 28 September 2020 13: 02 New
          -7
          since the 90s, the emphasis on the Strategic Missile Forces is enough, and the fleet for the demonstration of the sea Yars and the Russian flag
  • ELEZKIY
    ELEZKIY 28 September 2020 10: 35 New
    29
    No wonder. Remember Filipov. The pilot died heroically. And he could continue to serve. Sent on a combat mission without providing "reinforced concrete" cover, as if there were no military operations. slovens .... until we put people in 41, we will not learn anything. shame on the country's leadership as a whole. multipliers are shitty ...
    1. Grandfather
      Grandfather 28 September 2020 10: 59 New
      +9
      Quote: ELEZKIY
      No wonder. Remember Filipov. The pilot died heroically. And he could continue to serve. They were sent on a combat mission without providing "reinforced concrete" cover, as if there were no combat operations. slovens ..

      "jambs" are a dime a dozen, on these Lives, you need to gain Experience, but building a full-fledged fleet on mock-ups ... this is worse than a mistake ...
    2. Gardamir
      Gardamir 28 September 2020 13: 05 New
      +6
      until we put people in 41, we learn nothing
      No offense. The Federation is not the Soviet Union. Rather, it will be like in the Crimean War of the 19th century.
  • xomaNN
    xomaNN 28 September 2020 10: 48 New
    -17 qualifying.
    Taki sho, should the entire Black Sea Fleet go to the US 6th Fleet?
    1. timokhin-aa
      28 September 2020 11: 02 New
      29
      No, learn to fight in a real way, as the great Lenin bequeathed.
    2. xomaNN
      xomaNN 28 September 2020 15: 44 New
      +5
      Those. colleagues do not perceive Odessa humor? wassat It's a pity...
  • stalkerwalker
    stalkerwalker 28 September 2020 10: 57 New
    -10 qualifying.
    After reading the panegyric, there was a feeling that he had read reports on the maneuvers of the Red Army and the Red Army Corps of the late 30s of the last century. With interlinear from the dungeons of the Lubyanka.
    Who will dispel the doubts of readers and author?
  • 7,62h54
    7,62h54 28 September 2020 10: 58 New
    +1
    The Ministry of Defense and above do not read articles on VO. They focus only on winning reports.
    1. Fan-fan
      Fan-fan 28 September 2020 12: 53 New
      +6
      Only analytical reports are prepared for our Chief Grandfather, he himself hardly reads anything. And this report by Konashenkov is the best basis for such a reference and Konashenkov knows perfectly well what his grandfather wants to hear.
  • Gvardeetz77
    Gvardeetz77 28 September 2020 11: 30 New
    11
    In general, the result of the SCSU of the 20th year for the Black Sea Fleet: we left the base, walked a little (well, or swam) and that's good (for the time of the 90s, so generally excellent).
    Well, about showing off during the exercises, so when she was not there, 90% of it is she's darling, well, 10 percent of it can be useful study (load something on the platforms, fix something, ride in columns, etc.) ...
    We learn already during the fighting
    1. PSih2097
      PSih2097 28 September 2020 15: 36 New
      0
      Quote: Gvardeetz77
      We learn already during the fighting

      "While the enemy is drawing a map of the offensive, we change the landscapes, and manually. When the time comes for an attack, the enemy is lost in unfamiliar terrain, and comes into complete non-readiness. This is the point, this is our strategy."
      (c) DMB laughing
  • Vladimir1155
    Vladimir1155 28 September 2020 11: 38 New
    15
    Despite the fact that the respected Maxim criticizes me, I support his article, I will say more a similar attitude to the fleet as a cardboard show, not even from Peter the Great, but from the ship Oryol that rotted in Astrakhan began. Russia is a land power, the presence of an army is not necessary. but such dependence on the sea as England has never had and never does, we are in the middle of the largest continent. except, and we do not need the sea. except for the respected admirals Senyavin, Ushakov, Nakhimov, Kornilov Istomin, everything that happened at sea was either the shame or heroism of a single ship and its crew. Unfortunately, modern admirals are the successors of the business of cutting the budget and the collapse of what is, a living example of laying useless UDCs, and at the same time lagging behind in coastal aviation and minesweepers as a result of the total total non-combat capability of the fleet ... even covering the most important part of the nuclear submarine in Kamchatka is simple do not want to, there are fogs, Vladik is more comfortable .. There is no IV Stalin to find them to appoint Lazarev commander-in-chief ...... and and and and ...... no words
  • AleBors
    AleBors 28 September 2020 11: 39 New
    12
    Actually, what to expect? The reports have been written, the reports have been given to the top, the grandmas have been sawn. Everyone is happy and smiling ...
  • maktub
    maktub 28 September 2020 11: 45 New
    +4
    Excellent counter-propaganda of "hurray-patriotism"
    Probably foreign analysts "laugh", especially about "virtual comrades"
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 28 September 2020 12: 39 New
      -12 qualifying.
      Our Black Sea Fleet, even in the very distant future, will have no one to fight.
      1. val43
        val43 28 September 2020 15: 11 New
        +6
        Not with WHOM, or not WHAT?
  • iouris
    iouris 28 September 2020 12: 00 New
    +8
    Abramovich's yachts look much more imposing and are armed with more terrible weapons.
    1. g1washntwn
      g1washntwn 28 September 2020 13: 50 New
      +8
      Quote: iouris
      Abramovich's yachts look much more imposing and are armed with more terrible weapons.

      Moreover, the most destructive type of weapons is the "Abramovich"
  • musorg
    musorg 28 September 2020 12: 15 New
    -29 qualifying.
    Klimov, as always, having received a thirty, grinds such nonsense that it is not worth reading.
    1. Fizik M
      Fizik M 3 October 2020 10: 14 New
      +1
      Quote: musorg
      Klimov, as always, having received a thirty, grinds such nonsense that it is not worth reading.

      of course, this is all the "State Department and the Mossad"
      and the combat capability of the Navy simply "blooms and smells" - because not only are there no problems, but we simply cannot have them!
  • pmkemcity
    pmkemcity 28 September 2020 12: 23 New
    +8
    Moreover, the warrior could not explain at all what "density" is, although he claimed that he had finished school.


  • Bez 310
    Bez 310 28 September 2020 12: 46 New
    19
    The article is correct and timely!
    They have exercises ..., up to 10 aircraft ..., disgusting and ashamed ...
    I will not tell you much, but the departure "to hit the AUG"
    55 aircraft in a single formation was commonplace.
    1. bober1982
      bober1982 28 September 2020 13: 10 New
      -30 qualifying.
      Quote: Bez 310
      I will not tell you much, but the departure "to hit the AUG"
      55 aircraft in a single formation was commonplace.

      It became curious, tell us (in short), if you please.
      Quote: Bez 310
      The article is correct and timely!

      This very "military expert" Klimov (calls himself a captain of the 3rd rank), the character is actually a clown, he is tired of his "analytics"
      1. Bez 310
        Bez 310 28 September 2020 14: 25 New
        14
        Quote: bober1982
        "military expert" Klimov

        All of his articles are on target, but you may not read
        his articles, since you are tired of him.
        Here, at VO, there are only a few specialists in the Navy, and
        Klimov is one of them.
        1. bober1982
          bober1982 28 September 2020 14: 30 New
          -13 qualifying.
          Quote: Bez 310
          Here, at VO, there are only a few specialists in the Navy, and
          Klimov is one of them.

          And you ? He is also one of the few specialists in the field of striking the AUG in a single formation, so it turns out. In which regiment did you serve?
          Is Crimea ours?
          1. Bez 310
            Bez 310 28 September 2020 14: 42 New
            +9
            Quote: bober1982
            one of the few experts in striking AUG

            Yes, I am one of the few specialists who,
            regiment of "supersonic missile carriers", went into real
            attack on the American AVM.
            Well, I also know something about the search and destruction of submarines.
            1. bober1982
              bober1982 28 September 2020 14: 46 New
              +1
              Quote: Bez 310
              Well, I also know something about the search and destruction of submarines.

              Respect
      2. Bez 310
        Bez 310 28 September 2020 14: 36 New
        11
        Quote: bober1982
        It became curious, tell us (in short)

        I'll tell you, but not so much about the departure as about the people.

        Lev

        - Navigator, we are passing the western coast of Sakhalin ...
        - Navigator, we are passing the eastern coast of Sakhalin ...
        - Navigator, we are traversing Cape Terpeniya ...
        - Thank you, Lev, but we won't know where we're flying without you. Stop talking about everything you see. Silently hold on to the leader, do not interfere with work.
        - Tell me about the 150th meridian ...
        - Oh my God! Well, why do you need it, this meridian?
        - Well, I control the fighters, I will tell them the line.
        - Leo, we fly in radio silence ... And where will the fighters get to your "line"?
        - I'll tell you on another channel, no one will hear.
        - Well, yes, except for the enemy, who listens to all the channels, at the same time learns that fighters are flying with us.
        - I see the presenter well ... Now I'll come closer ...
        - Leo, do you want to eat?
        - No, why?
        - Well, maybe you still sing? Eat an apple, and we will sit in silence, rest, while your mouth is busy. I'm tired of your noise, but only the second hour of the flight went ... Yes, after landing I will shake your conversations out of my ears for another two hours.
        - Well, you are ... Who is the commander here, damn it?
        - Leo, "pancake commander" - it's you, do not hesitate, you are sitting in front and on the left, you have a steering wheel, and on it and the damned SPU button (airplane intercom), but you have already got everyone with your noise! You have some kind of vocabulary diarrhea ... Well, let's bet that you won't sit in silence for ten minutes?
        - Well, let's bet I'm not weak. What are we arguing about?
        - On a can of stew from a board ration.
        - Okay, time it.
        - Turned on the stopwatch!
        We are performing a divisional sortie to “strike the AUG”. We are 40 "backfires" and 12 Tu-16s, and we were also given 2 Su-27s. The entire group is led by the deputy division commander, the leader of the group of our regiment - the deputy regiment commander Lev, who was entrusted with the control of the fighters.
        We are flying in Lev's crew and Mishka and I, two navigators of the regiment. Such is our regular crew - Leo, right Vitya, and two Bears in the back. We are already quite mature officers, Vitka and I are 30 years old, Leo is two years older than us, and Mishka is two years younger.
        We very rarely managed to fly with our own crew, usually we instruct everything on different crews or sit on the control room, but for a divisional flight you have to fly with a regular "flown" crew, so you have to endure all this mess.
        In life, Lev is not just a Lev, but Lev Lvovich, a lieutenant colonel, an excellent pilot who knows the plane perfectly and even, as they say, a holder of two Orders of the Red Star. Well, as I call him - twice Red Banner, twice Leo.
        Lev was transferred to us from Long-Range Aviation, as he said - "from Minsk." But we all knew that not from Minsk itself, but from the Machulishchi garrison, and sometimes, when Lev was already boasting, someone reasoned with him:
        - Yes, we know your battle path, from the vagina - to the school, from the school - to Machulishchi.
        Lev did not perform any special feats, he just very successfully participated in practical missile launches, that is, he did not interfere with his navigators to launch missiles.
        But there were a couple of moments in Leo's flying career when he came out of difficult situations with honor, so he rightfully wore his orders, and I was 100 percent confident in Leo. If anything happens, it won't let you down. But it's in the air ...

        On the ground, the situation is somewhat different. Leo is a choleric. Not even so, that's right - CHOLERIC. He, like a ball of mercury, absolutely does not know how to be at rest.
        All the time running somewhere, shouting something, all the time wanting to act, and all the time out of place. In everything that does not concern the plane, he has superficial knowledge, and Leo is always trying to apply them as quickly as possible.

        Leo makes decisions quickly and incorrectly, but this does not bother him. If left unchecked, the waterfall of solutions will wash anyone overboard. We all know about this, have already got used to him and do not pay any attention to Leo's attempts to lead something, we just learned to dodge.
        Once I was sitting at my brother's command post (CP). Well, they smoked, chatted with our classmate, who "stood" as the operational duty officer. The classmate was a needleman and suggested that his brother equip the control panel with a scoreboard system, which from the moment of "Alarm" after pressing the button will light up in a certain sequence at the necessary intervals, reminding the operational sequence of actions.
        Well, like - "Notify the personnel ..." ... Then the navigator of the regiment, Sanya, entered the command post, smoked, listened to our plans and immediately suggested:
        - The very first scoreboard should be called like this - “Don't let the lion!”, Otherwise he will rush in the very first, take everything into his own hands and confuse not so much the enemy as us and the division headquarters.
        Lev bought a car, parked it near the headquarters and told everyone who passed by what a clever driver he was and how well he had studied the device of his "iron horse".
        Knowing perfectly well the ability of Leo to learn something, we tried not to get close so that he would not torture us with his knowledge and crush us with his ability to drive. All this lasted more than one day, and our dear pravak Vitek was the first to break down.
        He walked over to the car, opened the trunk, examined something, and shook his head. Lev immediately reacted:
        - What are you climbing here? Buy your car there and open the trunk.
        - Leo, have you forgotten, I have a car. What have you driven before when you didn't have a car?
        - Ah, well, yes ... But mine is better!
        - Nobody argues, it is useless to argue with you. Where is your spare wheel?
        The lion went to the trunk, carefully examined everything inside, did not see the "spare wheel" and was very upset:
        - There is no spare wheel. Surely, the sailors stole ... Well, now what to do? How without a "spare wheel" on our roads?
        - Yes, business ... Why are you putting your car in front of everyone? And it prevents it from going to the headquarters. Come on - I will help you with the "spare", and you will put the car where everyone is.
        - Come on, now I will quickly rearrange the car, and you go for the "spare wheel".
        The lion jumped into the car, dashingly turned around, and crashed into a tree. Not much crashed, slightly crumpled bumper. Vitek, who jumped back in time, was somewhat taken aback by such a development of events and beckoned Leo to him.
        - Well, what are you doing? Can you do something consciously?
        - No, well, why did they put trees here?
        “They didn’t know that you were going to dissect here in your car. And who even sold you a car without making sure you know how to drive it?
        - Tie it up already, and so the bumper has scratched, go for the "spare tire".
        - Yes, I'm not going anywhere. Look, Leo - you've studied the plane, why aren't you studying the car?
        - How can I not study it? Yes, I know everything what you want to ask.
        - Yes, I will not ask you anything. If you studied your car, you would know that your "spare wheel" is attached under the bottom of the trunk, outside.
        I don't know how Lev studied his car, what he did with it, but she constantly attracted trouble. Even in a public parking lot without the participation of the owner, this car suffered damage.
        A cow wandered into the parking lot, walked around, nibbled grass, turned its head and knocked out the side window of Lev's car with its horn. Leo was very upset, and what is most offensive, there was no one to blame for this trouble.

        But the warrant officers did not abandon Leo in trouble, and while Leo was sharing his grief with everyone he could catch at headquarters, they cut out a piece of plexiglass and inserted it instead of his own. Normally it happened, just a little dim glass.

        And we all flew to the goal, and for 5 minutes the long-awaited silence stood in the carriage. I even began to worry about my cat, which might not get the stew from my board ration. I asked the pravak:
        - Vit, look at our commander there, hasn't something happened?
        - And what can happen to him, he sits courageously, eyes an eagle.
        - Yes, he has been silent for the seventh minute, he went to the record, I'm worried ...
        - Yes, I can be silent anymore!
        - All Lev, you lost your stew! I have three witnesses.
        - Well, you, you yourself, you ... this ...
        - I know nothing, it was you who should have been silent, not me. But you can be proud of the result - you were silent for seven minutes, it costs a lot. Vitya, you look after him so that he doesn't gobble my stew out of grief.
        The flight went well, the enemy was defeated, Victory was ours. After taxiing, Lev jumped out of the plane and rushed to look for a car to get to the control room. But he didn't run far, I slowed him down:
        - A lion! Where did you drag my stew? Give it back here, I know you pilots.
        - Oh, yes on my stew, on, choke.
        - Not yours, but mine, and you don't have to yell like that, if you lose - give it back.
        1. ban
          ban 28 September 2020 14: 44 New
          +1
          You need to write stories!
          1. timokhin-aa
            29 September 2020 12: 38 New
            -1
            So he wrote, and it worked out well. Then he rubbed everything from the Internet.
            1. ban
              ban 29 September 2020 14: 19 New
              -1
              Greetings, Alexander!
              Why rubbed it?
              1. timokhin-aa
                29 September 2020 14: 26 New
                -1
                Ask him himself. He had memories there of finding an American aircraft carrier, which was out of our conditional strike. It would be very useful for me for an article. And he rubbed everything.
                1. ban
                  ban 29 September 2020 14: 29 New
                  -2
                  Next time, definitely. It's kind of uncomfortable now
        2. bober1982
          bober1982 28 September 2020 14: 44 New
          -4
          Quote: Bez 310
          After taxiing, Lev jumped out of the plane and rushed to look for the car

          Well, and nonsense, I mean the whole text as a whole.
          After taxiing, Lev ran for the bump stop, sit @ at, and look for no car.
          1. Bez 310
            Bez 310 28 September 2020 14: 50 New
            0
            Don't worry about grades.
            Different views on things - someone is behind the bump stop
            looks, and someone in the distance is bright.
            1. bober1982
              bober1982 28 September 2020 15: 18 New
              -4
              Quote: Bez 310
              Different views on things - someone is behind the bump stop
              looks, and someone into the bright distance

              With wet pants, they don't look into the bright distance.
              And, they run for the bump stop, and do not look at it.
              1. Bez 310
                Bez 310 28 September 2020 15: 23 New
                +4
                I do not consider it necessary to argue on this topic.
                But I'll tell you something.
                At the school, we asked the instructors,
                who have not seen any planes,
                except for Tu-134sh:
                - And where do they "pour" in combat aircraft?
                The instructors were somewhat embarrassed, but
                the most resourceful answered like this:
                - They don't take pussies into naval aviation!

                I hope everything is clear to you?
                1. Rushnairfors
                  Rushnairfors 28 September 2020 19: 28 New
                  +5
                  Bez you flew Tu22m3? Allow me a question: at what position of the UPRT does the 1st circuit of the afterburner ignite? In degrees, naturally. Thanks in advance for your reply
                  1. Bez 310
                    Bez 310 28 September 2020 20: 22 New
                    -2
                    Quote: Rushnairfors
                    Did you fly Tu22m3?

                    On Tu-22m2.
                    Good question ... Like this, unobtrusively,
                    Are you trying to make it clear that you flew too?
                    Read my comments carefully,
                    and such questions will disappear for me, yes they are here
                    completely inappropriate.
                    You don't need to know more about me than I do
                    told, it's not a dating site.
                    1. Rushnairfors
                      Rushnairfors 29 September 2020 07: 54 New
                      +2
                      I am still in the "office", but you seem to be ....... I asked you a question that will not even remotely reveal your identity, and even more so will not give out any state secrets and you so beautifully avoided an answer on him. Maybe at least tell me at what number of M does the air intake wedge work on Tu22m2 (or 3)? By the way, is it horizontal or vertical in the deuce? I hope for an answer
                      1. timokhin-aa
                        29 September 2020 14: 20 New
                        -1
                        By the way, is it horizontal or vertical in the deuce?


                        Vertical. It's even on Wikipedia. Well, whoever saw the two with his eyes will immediately say.

                        Your opponent is a famous person in naval aviation. You shouldn't be so.
                      2. Rushnairfors
                        Rushnairfors 29 September 2020 16: 01 New
                        +1
                        Well, if you know this person ....... You are the naval authority on this site for me and I believe you. And I will personally apologize to him for my joke. It's just that a lot of sofa theorists have divorced today, who did not serve in the troops either, but here on the site nightingales are poured
                      3. timokhin-aa
                        29 September 2020 16: 02 New
                        -1
                        I don't know, but there are those who do.
                      4. Bez 310
                        Bez 310 29 September 2020 17: 05 New
                        -1
                        Quote: Rushnairfors
                        And I will personally apologize to him for my joke.

                        No need to apologize, you better learn it right
                        understand what you read. Here is the airfield area where
                        I served 26 years.
                      5. Leha667
                        Leha667 30 September 2020 09: 23 New
                        0
                        Here? If so, I was there in 2017. A sad sight (((
                      6. Bez 310
                        Bez 310 30 September 2020 09: 43 New
                        -1
                        Quote: Leha667
                        Here?

                        Here ...
                        But then I served in the largest aviation garrison,
                        where the 2 regiments of the MRA missile division were based,
                        and a huge regiment of Tu-142 PLA.
  • Fizik M
    Fizik M 1 October 2020 19: 55 New
    0
    Quote: bober1982
    This very "military expert" Klimov (calls himself a captain of the 3rd rank), the character is actually a clown, he is tired of his "analytics"

    well, monsieur nonsense, try to object
  • iouris
    iouris 28 September 2020 13: 11 New
    +5
    Quote: Bez 310
    the flight "to strike at the AUG" with 55 planes in a single formation was commonplace.

    This is no coincidence. According to the simulation results, only such an outfit of forces provided the solution to the combat mission (and even then with a probability of 0,9).
    1. bober1982
      bober1982 28 September 2020 13: 20 New
      -13 qualifying.
      Quote: iouris
      This is no coincidence. According to the simulation results, only such an outfit of forces provided the solution to the combat mission (and even then with a probability of 0,9).

      What does modeling mean, how to understand?
      1. Pashhenko Nikolay
        Pashhenko Nikolay 28 September 2020 16: 21 New
        +1
        So understand that this is not a real battle, but its simulation.
    2. Bez 310
      Bez 310 28 September 2020 14: 22 New
      +2
      Quote: iouris
      only such an outfit of forces ensured the solution of the combat mission (and even then with a probability of 0,9).

      No, I didn't!
      The Long-Range Aviation Regiment and submarines were also involved.
      1. bober1982
        bober1982 28 September 2020 14: 36 New
        -5
        Quote: Bez 310
        No, I didn't!
        The Long-Range Aviation Regiment and submarines were also involved.

        And, the Long-Range Aviation Regiment, was one of the 55 * aircraft?
        1. Bez 310
          Bez 310 28 September 2020 14: 43 New
          +3
          Quote: bober1982
          And, the Long-Range Aviation Regiment, was one of the 55 * aircraft?

          No.
          55 aircraft - MRA division only.
          1. bober1982
            bober1982 28 September 2020 14: 45 New
            +2
            Quote: Bez 310
            No.
            55 aircraft - MRA division only.

            Got it.
  • Pashhenko Nikolay
    Pashhenko Nikolay 28 September 2020 13: 15 New
    +2
    And on land, wasn’t it so? Beautiful footage for the movie making a massive strike by a missile defense system on the enemy. In the style of Katyusha 2VOV. And no one cares that the installations are in an open position without any disguise. for the layman.
    1. PSih2097
      PSih2097 28 September 2020 15: 44 New
      +2
      Quote: Pashhenko Nikolay
      In the style of Katyusha 2VOV

      there was no second Great Patriotic War, there was the Patriotic War of 1812 and the Great Patriotic War of 1941-1945. There was also the Second World War 1939-1945.
  • pleschakovai
    pleschakovai 28 September 2020 13: 16 New
    -21 qualifying.
    Where did the author get such information? Probably took from the sources of the "truth" of the yellow press from Ukraine, the United States and Geyropa !!! laughing am soldier
  • Radikal
    Radikal 28 September 2020 13: 17 New
    16
    On September 26, the Kavkaz-2020 strategic command and staff exercise (MSCHU) ends. It makes sense to compare the realities of the naval component of these exercises with the way they are covered by the Ministry of Defense, more precisely, the Department of Information and Mass Communications of the Ministry of Defense - DIMK MO under the direction of Colonel General I. Konashenkov (hereinafter referred to as the Department of Konashenkov). This comparison is good for both the teachings and the way in which they are reported.
    The coverage of the exercises in the news releases also does not stand up to criticism - again they talked excitedly about the scale of the exercises incomparable with those held in the USSR. In general, lies in everything. sad
  • Victor Tsenin
    Victor Tsenin 28 September 2020 17: 00 New
    -4
    What a sad end to the article. In general, the lion's share in fact, but for that and the teachings, in order to take into account and learn. Of course, there will be no defeat!
  • alimov76
    alimov76 28 September 2020 17: 02 New
    -2
    Under capitalism, spending "your" loot on any army, navy medicine, etc., is a direct loss. Why are you surprised? The same thing happens in all democratic countries. There is no war. Why pay more?
  • svoit
    svoit 28 September 2020 18: 51 New
    -1
    Well, in general, the exercises are also carried out in order to find weaknesses and flaws, some of them have been successfully discovered, the backwardness can only be corrected. It's still better than turning a blind eye to them.
  • Alex priest
    Alex priest 28 September 2020 19: 49 New
    -5
    Among the pseudo-field "pukes" there are many enthusiastic all-fighters.
  • adena
    adena 28 September 2020 20: 39 New
    -7
    author, if you sculpt an opus in the style of "chef, you are gone!", sprinkle arguments, albeit controversial, but arguments. Why is this diarrhea from the gallant "submariner from the word of the supply", on an urgent basis, I observed how a third of the sailors at the end of the second year of service carried such nonsense and did not hesitate! I mean, if diarrhea from the gallant "submariner from the word supply" is an argument for you, then you are insanely far from the Navy.
    1. Beregovic_1
      Beregovic_1 28 September 2020 22: 35 New
      +7
      Ignorance by the press service of the combat strength of the fleet, mention of ships located on another sea or not surrendered to the fleet, confusion in the classes of ships ... What arguments are still needed? The actual absence of aviation in the exercises, the majority of those involved are known to be wretched targets, the use of not even "Calm", but "Wasps" for practicing air defense missions ... Doubtful compositions of the KUG, which do not provide orders for air defense or PLO and are only capable of a caliber strike on a plow .... And entrusted it to cover completely incompetent people, instead of inviting ANY officer of the UBP of the fleet. Though there would be no obvious blunders. I would say that the article does not include the defeat of the fleet, but the press service of the RF Ministry of Defense. During the exercises, the fleet performed real tasks in Syria or was repaired. We scraped together a few old vessels for show and completed a number of tasks. And the press service was fucked up.
    2. Fizik M
      Fizik M 1 October 2020 19: 57 New
      0
      Quote: adena
      sprinkle with arguments, albeit controversial but arguments. Why this

      Monsieur, I am not Aibolit (which I need in YOUR case)
      Quote: adena
      Why is this diarrhea from the gallant "submariner from the word supply",

      Diarrhea is here from YOU
  • huntsman650
    huntsman650 28 September 2020 21: 31 New
    +1
    The new is still damp, and the old is already outdated! All hope is for the Strategic Missile Forces !!!
  • Connor MacLeod
    Connor MacLeod 29 September 2020 00: 35 New
    +1
    Conversations won't help ... No.
  • shinobi
    shinobi 29 September 2020 01: 31 New
    -1
    The question of the war on the Black Sea became rhetorical back in the Second World War. The point is to arrange a shit if the coastal complexes shoot through the water area to the Bosphorus? B-52 you say? They are not a horror story from the Vietnam War. Exercises for that and exercises, to identify holes in the defense.
  • Old partisan
    Old partisan 29 September 2020 04: 02 New
    +3
    It is not for you Vova to run the house of culture.
    How will we defeat the enemy on its territory in the 30s of the last century. Well, well.
    It’s no better in other fleets.
    This is economically impractical and does not generate income.
  • tolmachiev51
    tolmachiev51 29 September 2020 04: 39 New
    +2
    Tough! but the gist is correct. Normal article with analysis of the "achievements" of the Navy.
  • 9 Shaft
    9 Shaft 29 September 2020 08: 01 New
    -1
    The truth is always a little not happy, or vice versa ... Those who serve in the Black Sea Fleet are unlikely to write the truth. And the reason is not lies and fear, but probably because those who know know, and the rest will not help them if they know the truth.
    The main thing is that it does not happen as a warrant officer told me one story (he is already under 80). He came from the GDR to replace it in the south of Ukraine (Odessa was not that far away) from tank forces to rocket forces. This gave in the mid-70s! ... And after half a year he quit (although in about three years he could have gone abroad again). He was simply shocked by the combat readiness of the military unit, there was no firing, the equipment simply could not leave a part (the half was dismantled). The inspectors "accepted" the shooting in a restaurant in Odessa and everything was fine. This is probably worse than what is happening now in the Crimea and the Black Sea Fleet in general.
  • Dedok
    Dedok 29 September 2020 08: 19 New
    0
    yes, how much you can listen to how they pour in your ears ... "the armor is strong and our tanks are fast"
  • aglet
    aglet 29 September 2020 09: 17 New
    -2
    so the Chef always fought like this, and in the Patriotic War, and not only the Chef. the author did not report anything new to me
  • gvozdan
    gvozdan 29 September 2020 09: 20 New
    +1
    Shoot for alarmism
    1. timokhin-aa
      29 September 2020 15: 13 New
      -1
      And then, like in 41, pay in blood for a hat
  • Alexander Galaktionov
    Alexander Galaktionov 29 September 2020 09: 21 New
    0
    And if we compare the Il 114MP and ATR 72MP, whose anti-submarine aircraft is better and in what?
  • Poetry
    Poetry 29 September 2020 11: 14 New
    +2
    Kapets, guys. I'll go shoot myself.
  • jaroff
    jaroff 29 September 2020 11: 34 New
    +2
    I'm surprised at the author. Is it possible to take media publications seriously and draw conclusions based on these publications?
    1. Fizik M
      Fizik M 3 October 2020 14: 49 New
      0
      Quote: zharyoff
      Is it possible to take media publications seriously?

      these are not "media publications" (although they are very different in level - including very high quality and reliable)
      а OFFICIOSIS OF THE MINISTRY OF DEFENSE
      and the fact that the Navy (and the Black Sea Fleet) has a "full bottom" with combat training and combat effectiveness - it is clear even from it
      + watch the official video from the Ministry of Defense - there is also more than enough TRESHA ...
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Escobar
    Escobar 29 September 2020 13: 22 New
    -1
    Well, the results have been summed up, the problems have been identified, but will someone get a hat or go up to the top that everything is ok? Will there be any positive changes.
  • Ivan Tixiy
    Ivan Tixiy 29 September 2020 13: 31 New
    0
    It is clear that there are not just a lot of shortcomings, but a lot, such a thing as naval construction is not simple, both financially and technically. And what does the author actually suggest? Or did he crow about his business as a cock and let it not dawn there? Just let him not forget to indicate where to take money on his Wishlist ... An article from the cycle "everything is gone, we will all die"
    1. timokhin-aa
      29 September 2020 15: 09 New
      -1
      You crow here.
      And money without the author is taken and spent, just in the amount that would be enough for combat training. But they are wasted on all sorts of nonsense.
    2. Fizik M
      Fizik M 1 October 2020 19: 59 New
      0
      Quote: Ivan Tixiy
      is not easy both financially and technically. And what does the author actually suggest? Or his business

      madam INSERT lol ALL (or almost all) has already been said above
      so leave your QUIT to yourself
      Quote: Ivan Tixiy
      Just let him not forget to indicate where to take money on his Wishlist.

      SPECIFIED
      Quote: Ivan Tixiy
      An article from the cycle "everything is lost, we will all die"

      this is YOUR diarrhea from this cycle
  • Dron_sk
    Dron_sk 29 September 2020 15: 09 New
    +2
    Here, articles are usually based on two extremes - either “everything is bad, everything is lost,” or “we will win all.” But the truth, most likely, as usual, is somewhere in between - not so bad with our fleet as in the article described, I think, but it is also clear that there are a lot of problems. And I do not like articles in which there is only one criticism, and there are no suggestions for a way out of the situation. Any podzaborny drunk / homeless can criticize everyone and everything. troubles that are described in the article - we have a very long sea border, and too little money.We, of course, are not going to reduce our sea borders, so the way out is to earn more money, and not to earn on each other, selling to each other inside counterfeiting countries at exorbitant prices, or deceiving when repairing a car at a service station - this does not make the country richer as a whole, but making money on exports, that is, selling goods and services abroad for foreign currency. But in this we have reached our limits, since nothing but natural resources, raw materials, nuclear power plants and weapons We have not learned to sell for export in normal volumes. Therefore, in order to build a normal fleet, as the author of the article requires, there is simply no money, especially now, when there is a coronavirus crisis, when the national currency is falling by several percent every day.
    Hence the conclusion - in the current situation, when there is no money, when the length of the sea border and the area of ​​land territory are a problem, it is necessary to use the production of the most powerful weapons - nuclear weapons to strengthen the country's defense capability - in order to increase the likelihood of unacceptable damage in the event of an attack on us by any enemy / adversaries , and to turn a huge territory from a minus into a plus - to place nuclear weapons even more throughout the country, making it difficult for opponents to destroy all launch points with the first strike, and guaranteeing a retaliatory strike unacceptable for opponents.
    All agreements on the reduction of nuclear potential were more beneficial to the United States. Even if we are not far behind in terms of technology, the United States and its allies have much more money to produce any kind of weapons.
    So the root of all our troubles is money, and because you will be here even scribbling such all-prophetic items in hundreds, money will not appear out of thin air, they can only transfer a couple of percent in the defense budget from one item of expenditure to another, for example, to the navy and that's it.
    Ways to solve the problem:
    + Building up nuclear potential
    + If they really do not dare to introduce a progressive scale of taxation, then all purchases of services and goods of foreign production, foreign real estate in the amount of more than $ 1 million should be taxed at 30-35%. Purchase of yachts of foreign manufacture for personal use - 50% tax. It is no longer possible to tear money from the impoverished population, so it is necessary to tear money from the overweight oligarchs
    1. rusboris
      rusboris 29 September 2020 20: 19 New
      0
      I suggest our esteemed admirals to abstract themselves from the darkness of the world war with the participation of the United States, they are in no hurry to go to Hell. Let's focus on the needs of the Russian Marine Corps and Airborne Forces.
      We have four fleets. For two oceans and two seas. I welcome the decision to give the Northern Fleet the status of a military district. A long overdue decision. The ground forces of the northern flank of Russia have never been independent, since they have no enemy. They have always ensured the interests of the fleet.
      The Pacific Fleet is in the same position. The ground forces of the conditional coastal army can conduct combat operations only for the needs and interests of the fleet. Without the navy, the very existence of this part of the ground forces of the Eastern Military District becomes meaningless. And it doesn't depend on the potential adversary. The USA, Japan or another "partner" of Russia, becomes the master of the region without our fleet. Therefore, after the Northern Fleet, a similar status must be given to the Pacific Fleet. It looks bad, the support of the Marine Corps, which can be provided by modern frigates with a single 100 mm gun and 20 cruise missiles.
      Another thing is an artillery cruiser. Its guns, supporting the marines, can, within 10 minutes, deliver 30 tons of high-explosive shells to a distance of more than 40 km from the coast. Enough space on the cruiser for the "Tornado" MLRS with a firing range of up to 200 km. If it arrives, something in response, then the sailor, the welder, without straining, will fix it. Even if it is an anti-ship missile "Harpoon" or a torpedo from a submarine.
      Armored, 120 mm 7000 tons of displacement, cruisers, will give combat stability to the ship group, consisting of universal landing ships, missile boats and corvettes.
      A ship group led by a cruiser will look great during a trade blockade of regimes disloyal to Russia. Or vice versa. When the trade blockade is broken, using the bulk method, on the destroyer "Arlie Burke". Indeed, do not sink the ship of the "partners".
      From the point of view of the economy of a low-intensity war, the project of an armored cruiser looks better, let's call it conditionally, “Project 1900/2020, type“ Bayan ”. Displacement up to 7000 tons. Armor, medium and short-range air defense. Good means of PLO. The main armament is 152 mm guns and the "Tornado" MLRS. He does not need anti-ship missiles in his arsenal, escort corvettes will be engaged in this area. The cost of such a dream for the marines and the commander of a universal amphibious assault ship will be 3 times less than the frigate "Admiral Essen". Correctly colleague Dmitry says, money loves the account.
    2. Alexey from Perm
      Alexey from Perm 29 September 2020 21: 06 New
      0
      until we change the system to socialism, everything will be so and worse.
      1. Fizik M
        Fizik M 3 October 2020 10: 11 New
        0
        Quote: Alexey from Perm
        until we change the system to socialism, everything will be so and worse.

        cool excuse for OPKshnye rats "mastering" NOW budget loot
        incl. AT THE EXPENSE OF THE COUNTRY'S DEFENSE
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Charik
    Charik 29 September 2020 18: 57 New
    -1
    Within the framework of the Kavkaz-2020 command and control system, more than 20 ships and boats of the fleet perform tasks at sea, including: the flagship of the Black Sea Fleet, the guards missile cruiser Moskva, the Pytlivy patrol ship, and the small missile ships Vyshny Volochek and Orekhovo-Zuevo ", Large landing ships" Caesar Kunikov "," Azov "and" Novocherkassk ", missile boats" Naberezhnye Chelny "," Ivanovets "," Shuya "and" R-60 ", as well as a missile hovercraft" Samum ". - scared themselves
  • The comment was deleted.
    1. Nikolai Korovin
      Nikolai Korovin 29 September 2020 22: 57 New
      +1
      It seems to me that you are exaggerating somewhat. The site has a lot of useful and interesting things. And this article - well, how to say ... In my opinion, it is quite obvious that the press secretary by the nature of his work is simply obliged to carry a blizzard. But so that it was invisible to people not in the subject. It is somewhat strange that someone does not understand this. There were comparisons with Psaki - they are inappropriate. Here, it turns out, the press secretary was convicted of desecration from a negative, but, as it were, an expert point of view, and Psaki carried such nonsense at times that the ears of a person who had more or less mastered the high school program had to curl up into a tube. And here you are. The harsh criticism of the press secretary by the author ultimately provoked a number of comments clarifying some rather principled opinions regarding the further development of the RF Armed Forces in general and the fleet in particular. Personally, I was very interested.
    2. timokhin-aa
      30 September 2020 18: 34 New
      +1
      Is this your selfie? Not bad. But the letters must be removed.
  • Shadow041
    Shadow041 29 September 2020 20: 35 New
    +2
    The missiles hit the right place. If it comes to a conflict near the Crimea, no one will fly, and even more so the slow-moving Orions. Crimea is full of air defense systems and modern fighters, for which both Orion and B-52 are a simple target. Ships with the Package for the Russian Black Sea Fleet are already under construction, these are universal corvettes of type 20380 and frigates of type 22350. The first corvette of project 20380, with the Package, `` Zealous '', is to become part of the Russian Black Sea Fleet at the end of 2021. The Russian Federation should replenish the same type of corvette Strogy. In the middle of 2022, the Russian Black Sea Fleet is to replenish the new frigate of project 2023, Admiral Isakov.
    1. timokhin-aa
      1 October 2020 14: 08 New
      +1
      The first corvette of project 20380, with the Packet, `` Zealous '', should become part of the Russian Black Sea Fleet at the end of 2021. At the end of 2022, the Russian Black Sea Fleet is to replenish the same type corvette, 'Strogiy'


      In the "Retive" and "strict" MF RLC from "Zaslon", they generally may not come out of tests in this decade. Look how Thundering is giving up. It will be the same with these.
    2. Fizik M
      Fizik M 3 October 2020 10: 10 New
      0
      by the way
      Quote: Shadow041
      The missiles hit the right place.

      sure?
      because YOU are "told on TV"?
      by the way, what happens sometimes "in the background" "on TV" after JAKOB "successful firing" is quite noticeable and "readable"
  • Alexey from Perm
    Alexey from Perm 29 September 2020 21: 04 New
    0
    A bold article, which VO immediately removed from the distribution and translated into an opinion folder. Hurray, the patriots will probably burst with anger.
    Most likely it is.