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Transcript of Su-35 and Su-30 talks during a random attack appeared on the Web

159
Transcript of Su-35 and Su-30 talks during a random attack appeared on the Web

A transcript of the talks between the pilots of the Su-35S and Su-30SM fighters during an accidental attack on September 22 in the Tver region appeared on the Web. The recording of the conversation was provided by the Telegram channel "112".


According to the channel, during the training of air combat between the Su-35S and Su-30SM, the command "Fire" sounded, after which the pilot of the Su-35 was supposed to fire a photo, but instead of the camera, the fighter's gun went off.

- Report what happened?
- 348 had a cannon fired.

- leads data channel.

Further, the speech informant of the Su-30SM reports a failure of the aircraft hydraulic system and loss of control. After that, the crew of the Su-30 ejected.

Earlier it was reported that the reason for the fall of the Su-30SM fighter on September 22 in the Tver region was an accidental shot from a Su-35S pilot, who, together with the Su-30 crew, was practicing elements of air combat. The missiles were removed from the fighter after combat duty, but the gun was not unloaded.

For our part, we note that at the moment, to date, official confirmation of this information has not yet been received.

As previously reported, the crew of the crashed fighter ejected safely. The plane itself fell in a wooded area in the Tver region, there is no destruction on the ground.
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  1. svp67
    svp67 24 September 2020 15: 18
    +5
    Unfortunately, but such bungling, in which, during an exercise, one of its aircraft shoots down its second aircraft, alas, but not uncommon ...
    The perpetrators will be punished, the equipment and ammunition will be written off ... The main thing is that without victims
    1. fighter angel
      fighter angel 24 September 2020 15: 51
      32
      svp67
      How fast you are!
      It will be a little different.
      Equipment and used supplies will be written off.
      The perpetrators will be punished, then they will figure it out, then they will appoint a court, then they will be awarded to compensate the RF Ministry of Defense for the "nth" part of the cost of the downed Su-30SM.
      As a result, one or more people will fall into "slavery" to the RF Ministry of Defense. But he or they in this case at least will not be threatened with unemployment in the next 5-10-15 years. Until it pays, it will serve ...
      The law on the material responsibility of servicemen has been adopted.
      And new!
      And he is not at all the same as he was in the Soviet Army ...
      1. qQQQ
        qQQQ 24 September 2020 16: 04
        +8
        Quote: fighter angel
        The law on the material responsibility of servicemen has been adopted.

        On the other hand, who should answer that the technician did not prepare the gun for a training battle, and the pilot did not fire a control shot in the air, as it should be?
        1. krot
          krot 24 September 2020 16: 09
          25
          Unfortunately, but such bungling, in which, during an exercise, one of its aircraft shoots down its second aircraft, alas, but not uncommon

          Apparently you never have mistakes and mistakes! And although, the one who does nothing is not mistaken, so you probably have no mistakes. )
          In general, one thing in this story pleases. How easily the SU-35 shot down the plane. It's at what speeds ..! And another stone in the direction of those who say that cannons on airplanes are the last century.
          1. Temples
            Temples 24 September 2020 16: 17
            19
            Now it is clear that the SU35 failed the SU30.
            And then a computer battle! laughing

            Everyone is alive and well.

            He who does not do anything is not mistaken.
          2. The comment was deleted.
          3. figwam
            figwam 24 September 2020 16: 43
            +1
            Quote: krot
            And another stone in the direction of those who say that cannons on airplanes are the last century.

            Who said this nonsense?
          4. evgenii67
            evgenii67 24 September 2020 17: 21
            12
            Quote: krot
            Apparently you never have mistakes and mistakes! And although, the one who does nothing is not mistaken, so you probably have no mistakes. )
            In general, one thing in this story pleases. How easily the SU-35 shot down the plane. It's at what speeds ..! And another stone in the direction of those who say that cannons on airplanes are the last century.

            A mess everywhere, even in military aviation, where it would seem there should be professionals of the highest standard. Yes, it's okay, you think more of a lard about the earth,
            think the T-90 was almost burned along with the crew and only an incredible miracle saved people in this and in this case. Regarding "one thing in this story pleases me. How easy it was to hit the plane with a SU-35 cannon. It's at what speeds" so the gun is installed on Russian fighters for this, not for beauty.
            "Apparently you never have mistakes and mistakes! And although the one who does nothing is not mistaken, so you may have no mistakes.)" That's just one thing, when you sent the wrong piece of paper while sitting in the office or threw the shit at the factory something, well, they deprived you of your bonus or scolded you, it's another matter when you mow for several billion rubles and in addition almost ditched your colleagues, but if the debris landed on someone's head ?! In general, for such carelessness (if you really worked with a gun), someone should sit down.
            1. Olddetractor
              Olddetractor 24 September 2020 17: 58
              17
              The mess in aviation has been found for a long time, it began from the moment when Wilbur Wright stole the pliers from his brother) But there are mistakes, nothing can be done about it ...
              1. Grandfather
                Grandfather 25 September 2020 05: 49
                +1
                Quote: Olddetractor
                The mess in aviation has been found for a long time, it began from the moment when Wilbur Wright stole the pliers from his brother) But there are mistakes, nothing can be done about it ...

                "when God put things in order on earth, aviation was in the sky ..." (a saying dating back to the 80s.)
            2. Serg koma
              Serg koma 24 September 2020 19: 18
              0
              Quote: evgenii67
              on some billion rubles

              Produced by Irkut Corporation, under the 2014 contract for the supply of SU-30SM to Kazakhstan, the cost of one aircraft is about 1,25 billion rubles.
              1. Yok Migarek
                Yok Migarek 24 September 2020 21: 14
                +2
                Quote: Serg Koma
                Quote: evgenii67
                on some billion rubles

                Produced by Irkut Corporation, under the 2014 contract for the supply of SU-30SM to Kazakhstan, the cost of one aircraft is about 1,25 billion rubles.

                They shot down not the SM, but the Su-30M2. A slightly different plane.
                1. Serg koma
                  Serg koma 25 September 2020 05: 57
                  0
                  Quote: Yok-Migarek
                  A slightly different plane.
                  Did you mean different modifications?
                  The cost of the Su-30M2 is more difficult to find / if you have such an opportunity, let me know, I will be very grateful /, and it differs from the cost of the SM in different ways not by billion rubles.
            3. cat Rusich
              cat Rusich 24 September 2020 20: 51
              +8
              Quote: evgenii67
              that's just one thing, when you sent the wrong piece of paper while sitting in the office, or you forgot something at the factory, well, you were deprived of your bonus or chided,
              Sitting in the head office of Sberbank, you can send such a "piece of paper" that Sberbank "will fly into the pipe." Let us recall how, when assembling the rocket, they put one sensor and the rocket "upside down" instead of delivering satellites into orbit, delivered satellites to the "Kazakh steppe" ... And imagine the "jamb" at a nuclear power plant ... Chernobolsk nuclear power plant as an example (or a nuclear power plant in Fukushima). Any "jamb" can lead to such consequences ... sad
              1. Krasnoyarsk
                Krasnoyarsk 25 September 2020 08: 11
                +3
                Quote: cat Rusich
                Let us recall how, when assembling the rocket, they put one sensor "upside down" and the rocket, instead of delivering satellites into orbit, delivered satellites to the "Kazakh steppe" ...

                One JOURNALIST blurted out, and you repeat. The sensor cannot be placed upside down.
                1. cat Rusich
                  cat Rusich 25 September 2020 19: 09
                  -2
                  Quote: Krasnoyarsk

                  One JOURNALIST blurted out, and you repeat. The sensor cannot be placed upside down.
                  A rocket with satellites - fell - a fact - "someone did something wrong" ... Long ago, from my father I heard a story about how, when drawing up a drawing on a rocket, the designer put an "arrow" in the opposite direction ... The rocket was assembled strictly according to the drawing ... After launch, the rocket took off and turned down, the flight was not long. The authenticity of the story is not known to me, but the "joint" is a "joint" in the USA wink
                  1. Krasnoyarsk
                    Krasnoyarsk 25 September 2020 22: 13
                    +1
                    Quote: cat Rusich
                    but the "cant" is also a "cant" in the USA

                    I don’t argue with that. It's just that for me, a person familiar enough with all kinds of sensors, talk about an "inverted sensor" was at first amusing, and now annoying. hi
                  2. ermak124.0
                    ermak124.0 25 September 2020 22: 48
                    0
                    What kind of nonsense ???
                    1. cat Rusich
                      cat Rusich 25 September 2020 23: 16
                      0
                      Bread - English bread yes You can draw anything on the drawing ... Remember how many rockets fell at Baikonur ... Example 3K Glonass-M December 5, 2010- "... a design error in the formula for calculating the dose of liquid oxygen refueling in the refueling control system operating instructions ( an excessive amount of fuel was poured) ... 3K Glonass-M July 2, 2013 - the same "inverted sensors" 3 out of 6, inverted by 180 degrees, with the use of force ... and so on, etc. 2010 - 2015 - 7 accidents, here is such a "bread and butter" ...
          5. Aag
            Aag 24 September 2020 20: 00
            +7
            Quote: krot
            Unfortunately, but such bungling, in which, during an exercise, one of its aircraft shoots down its second aircraft, alas, but not uncommon

            Apparently you never have mistakes and mistakes! And although, the one who does nothing is not mistaken, so you probably have no mistakes. )
            In general, one thing in this story pleases. How easily the SU-35 shot down the plane. It's at what speeds ..! And another stone in the direction of those who say that cannons on airplanes are the last century.

            That is why the Charters (OVU VS, VidovVS), Orders for application, Instructions, Regulations, Technological maps are being written! Without looking up from the realities I realize that sometimes I have to violate one or another point of this or that document. , - it is not known how it was in life ...
            But, even when you violate something, - forcedly (due to the circumstances, - the situation, the verbal order of the command; personal laziness, or the inability to fulfill the points of certain requirements of certain requirements of the leading docks), or ...
            I don't even know what other "excuse" reasons may be.
            If, personal non-professionalism, let the MO attend to! Again, there are two options, -filtering l / s by MDK (moral and business qualities), - the level of training in VVUZ, or parts.
            I am ready to unhurriedly discuss this topic, if there are those who disagree with the above ...
            The reason for personal interest, - not indifferent to the fate of the Russian Federation (there are children, yes, and gave a lot, - I would like to see, or at least believe that it is not in vain) ...
            Returning to the topic of the story ... Here I am looking at the youth (talking about those who are under the shoulder straps) - the headquarters of the missile division 300 meters from the balcony - and I think, either what I am OLD (which does not correspond to our pension legislation))), either, - are they STUPID (or arrogant, ill-mannered, - although, where does it come from ... but, logic, or the inxtint of self-preservation should remain with people, or at least with drivers, owners of vehicles (vehicles) who park their cars so clumsily, irresponsibly? !
            IMHO: all these are links of the same chain ... I want those who come after us, to replace us, to be better than us, in everything ... hi
          6. Rostislav
            Rostislav 25 September 2020 10: 55
            0
            Quote: krot
            Apparently you never have mistakes and mistakes!

            Of course I have. But we are talking about something else, about the fact that it is necessary to bear responsibility for mistakes, and not to make excuses "only the one who does nothing is not mistaken." So the punishment for the technician and the pilot who violated the instructions is absolutely fair.
          7. Maxim73
            Maxim73 25 September 2020 21: 45
            +1
            The shrapnel 30 mm projectile is a terrible thing against unarmored targets.
        2. Piramidon
          Piramidon 24 September 2020 16: 17
          -7
          Quote: qqqq
          On the other hand, who should answer that the technician did not prepare the gun for a training battle?

          Do not run into a technician directly. Do you know exactly what direction he got?
          1. qQQQ
            qQQQ 24 September 2020 16: 26
            +8
            Quote: Piramidon
            Do not run into a technician directly. Do you know exactly what direction he got?

            I don't run into anyone, I just clarified that, judging by the comments, there are clear rules for preparing and conducting a mock battle, if someone violated them, then he must answer. The Law is harsh, but it is the Law.
            1. Piramidon
              Piramidon 24 September 2020 16: 32
              -7
              Quote: qqqq
              I'm not running into anyone, just clarified

              Well, how is it? Let not a technician, but a weapons engineer. Not so important. Didn't you say
              who should answer that the technician did not prepare the gun for a mock battle

              Do you personally know the procedure for preparing for this fight? Or just potryndet?
              1. qQQQ
                qQQQ 24 September 2020 16: 38
                11
                Quote: Piramidon
                Do you personally know the procedure for preparing for this fight?

                I know the order of preparation of "Shilka", there is also combat and there is shooting at a flying plane ("Mirror"), so if one toggle switch is not switched and the plane is shot down, then who should answer? Probably, as always with us, Pushkin. There is always a specific person behind any bungling. The technician did not prepare the gun, the pilot did not fire a control shot, whose fault is it? I do not know the procedure for preparing an airplane for a training battle, but judging by the result, there are specific violations and specific people must answer so that others would not have to break the rules.
                1. Piramidon
                  Piramidon 24 September 2020 16: 55
                  -16 qualifying.
                  Quote: qqqq
                  I do not know how to prepare an aircraft for a training battle, but judging by the result, there are specific violations and specific people should answer

                  From this place I ask for more details. "Result", about which you are writing, has the commission for the investigation of this flight accident already provided you, or is the granny at your entrance?
                  1. qQQQ
                    qQQQ 24 September 2020 16: 59
                    +6
                    Quote: Piramidon
                    From this place I ask for more details. The "result" that you are writing about has already been provided to you by the commission for the investigation of this flight accident, or is the granny at your entrance?

                    In general, there is a discussion of the version, I will emphasize the version that the plane was shot down by a cannon shot, and then who should be responsible if this version is confirmed.
                    1. Piramidon
                      Piramidon 24 September 2020 17: 10
                      -9
                      Quote: qqqq
                      Actually, there is a discussion of the version

                      But then you imagine it here as some kind of final RESULT. Are these your words? -
                      I do not know how to prepare an aircraft for a training battle, but judging by the result there are specific violations and specific people should answer

                      unambiguously talk about it
                      Only it is not clear what the result is?
                      1. qQQQ
                        qQQQ 25 September 2020 08: 56
                        0
                        Quote: Piramidon
                        unambiguously talk about it
                        Only it is not clear what the result is?

                        You are engaged in verbiage.
        3. fighter angel
          fighter angel 24 September 2020 16: 23
          28
          This is not about that.
          Of course, there must be responsibility. And the guilty must be punished.
          The question is different.
          If a technician-AVeshnik, even a starley, with a salary in the region of 50 thousand rubles, who most likely has a family, by a court decision will be obliged to pay the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation an amount in the region of 1-3.000 rubles. ?
          There have already been precedents. Two in the Crimean regiment are already paying "one and a half cartoon" for two for an unauthorized launch of a rocket during maintenance ...
          Now let's remember how it was in the Soviet Army.
          In the most extreme case, for damage, loss, unintentional destruction of military equipment and property, there was a maximum threat: "deprivation of a serviceman of no more than two monthly salaries".
          With a human face, socialism and social policy turned out to be in the USSR ...
          And now - the evil grin of capitalism ...
          P.S. My first regiment commander always said: "To deprive a man of money is the last thing!"
          He could tear so that the dust was a pillar, but he never punished me with money. Therefore, the personnel had both authority and respect. Although, what I'm talking about ... Now everything is rearranged from head to ass ...
          1. cat Rusich
            cat Rusich 24 September 2020 21: 11
            +3
            Quote: fighter angel
            This is not about that.
            Of course, there must be responsibility.
            Now let's remember how it was in the Soviet Army.
            In the most extreme case, for damage, loss, unintentional destruction of military equipment and property, there was a maximum threat: "deprivation of a serviceman of no more than two monthly salaries".
            With a human face, socialism and social policy turned out to be in the USSR ...
            And now - the evil grin of capitalism ...

            My father told me that when he served as a "conscript" under the USSR, they had a poster in their "armory" that read: "FOR DAMAGE, LOSS, STEALING weapons - 10 years in prison" ... what
          2. Ryazan87
            Ryazan87 25 September 2020 16: 29
            +1
            Now let's remember how it was in the Soviet Army.

            Let's remember:
            Regulations on the material responsibility of military personnel (approved by the Decree of the Presidium of the Supreme Soviet of the USSR dated January 13, 1984 No. 10661-X):
            And there is one point. Indeed, clause 7 of the Regulation said that:
            "Servicemen and those called up for military service for the damage caused as a result of their negligent performance of their official duties, provided for by military regulations, orders and other acts, bear material responsibility in the amount of damage caused, but not more than ... a monthly salary" (conscripts are even less ).
            But other situations were also registered:
            ".... 8. Servicemen and conscripts called up for military training bear material responsibility in full damagecaused to the state through their fault, in the following cases:
            - deliberate destruction, damage, damage, theft, illegal expenditure of military property or causing damage by other deliberate actions, regardless of whether they contain signs of acts prosecuted in a criminal procedure;
            - subscribing to actually outstanding work in orders and other documents, distortion of reporting data and deception of the state in other forms;
            - shortage, as well as the destruction or damage of military property transferred by him on account, for storage, transportation, issuance, use or for other purposes;
            - damage caused by a person who was intoxicated;
            - damage caused by an action (inaction) containing signs of a criminal offense. "
            Collecting procedure:
            "... 21. Monthly deductions by order of collection produced in the amount of twenty percent, and in case of compensation for damage caused by theft and squandering of military property - fifty percent of the monthly salary (earnings).
            If other deductions are made from the salary (earnings), provided by law, then the total amount of all deductions cannot exceed fifty percent of the monthly salary of the salary (earnings). The order and sequence of collection in these cases are determined by civil procedural legislation. "
            What has changed in the "animal-grinning Russian capitalism"?
            We open the Federal Law of July 12, 1999 N 161-FZ "On the material responsibility of military personnel":
            Art. 4
            "1. Unless otherwise established by this Federal Law, for damage caused by negligence in the performance of military service duties, servicemen are materially liable in the following amounts:
            - conscript servicemen - in the amount of damage caused by them, but not more than two salaries for military positions;
            - servicemen doing military service under a contract - in the amount of damage caused by them, but not more than one monthly salary and one monthly allowance for the length of service; "
            St xnumx
            "The servicemen are liability for the full amount of damage in cases where damage has been caused:
            - by negligence, a serviceman to whom the property was entrusted on the basis of a document (documents) confirming (confirming) his receipt of this property in order to ensure the storage, transportation and (or) issuance of this property or the production of financial calculations;
            - as a result of criminal actions (inaction) of a soldier established by a court verdict that has entered into legal force;
            - as a result of theft, deliberate destruction, damage, damage, illegal expenditure or use of property or other intentional actions (inaction), regardless of whether they contain signs of corpus delicti provided for by the criminal legislation of the Russian Federation;
            - deliberate actions of military personnel, which entailed the cost of treatment in medical organizations of military personnel affected by these actions;
            - servicemen who voluntarily brought themselves into a state of alcoholic, drug or other toxic intoxication.
            Can they collect much more?
            "... 1. Monthly monetary deductions for compensation for damage caused are made:
            - from the monetary allowance of a soldier doing military service under a contract, - in the amount of 20 percent of the monthly salary of a soldier, other monthly and other additional payments;
            - from the salary of a serviceman doing military service on conscription - in the amount of 20 percent of the salary for military positions and other monthly payments; "

            R.S. You are, of course, a great humanist in the "understand and forgive" style. But:
            1. There is a gross violation of a number of regulatory documents, which entailed grave consequences, and could entail even more grave ones.
            2. A modern combat aircraft was destroyed - not a plywood maize.
            3. Through criminal negligence (at best) - 1.2 billion rubles were lost. People's. The military en masse think that the technique on the trees is growing, and independently. This is not so - for this amount, by the way, the settlement can be supplied with gas or help several hundred seriously ill people. But what "Vasya" did not check what he was obliged to check and fuit ...
            And we should all feel sorry for him and not deprive him of money. Well, I don’t know, to pronounce a reprimand. Like Athos from a famous movie.
            Anyone can make a mistake - the question is what caused it. If laziness, disregard for the rules and instructions - you need to punish. And not only in rubles.
        4. KCA
          KCA 24 September 2020 16: 41
          +4
          what shot in the air? GSh-23-2 dumps so many shells per second that you won't have time to hiccup, and will tear the B-52 into rags, even by accident, a couple of hundred shells will fly out faster than you realize what's wrong
          1. Piramidon
            Piramidon 24 September 2020 17: 43
            -1
            Quote: KCA
            what shot in the air? GSh-23-2 dumps so many shells per second that you won't have time to hiccup, and will tear the B-52 into rags, even by accident, a couple of hundred shells will fly out faster than you realize what's wrong

            I still remember. Back in cadet times (60s) we were shown a SECRET training film about the use of MODERN (then) cannon armament. There I don’t remember the Tu-16 from which (but certainly not from the front, but from the twinned) cannon installation AM-23, cut the fuselage of the Il-28 target aircraft into two separate parts, like a tin can with a "grinder".
          2. Yok Migarek
            Yok Migarek 24 September 2020 21: 22
            +3
            Quote: KCA
            what shot in the air? GSh-23-2 dumps so many shells per second that you won't have time to hiccup, and will tear the B-52 into rags, even by accident, a couple of hundred shells will fly out faster than you realize what's wrong

            First, the GSh-35 was installed on the Su-301. Secondly, we are talking about the fact that before the training "shooting" at the target, the pilot had to make a control shot in the free direction. Then there would be no tragedy. Remember, even the ground charters have such requirements. The same pistol or machine gun. A control descent is mandatory ...
          3. Nikolaevich I
            Nikolaevich I 24 September 2020 22: 41
            +2
            Quote: KCA
            GSh-23-2 dumps so many shells per second,

            Isn't Tama a 30mm caliber? recourse
      2. alexmach
        alexmach 24 September 2020 16: 30
        +2
        As a result, one or more people will fall into "slavery" to the RF Ministry of Defense. But he or they in this case at least will not be threatened with unemployment in the next 5-10-15 years. Until it pays, it will serve ...

        As far as I remember, at least based on the results of the case of the technicians with the rocket, it was not at all about 15 years. If I am not mistaken, 15% was withheld from one of the other 10% of the salary for several years. The ruble punishment is sensitive but feasible.
        1. fighter angel
          fighter angel 24 September 2020 16: 44
          0
          Yes of course!
          With the deduction of 10-15% of their salaries, in the region of 35-50.t.r.
          In three years they will close a "one and a half cartoon" for two, if one is a leytekha / starley, and the second is a ensign / double bass, as far as I know.
          In MO, too, they are not fools sitting to cut 10-15% for a dozen years.
          You never know what can happen to them in six months, a year, five years ???
          And money is needed here and now!
          Nobody knows about humanity and humanity now.
          I think that they "cut" from them half-za / ny in order to close the debt quickly.
          1. alexmach
            alexmach 24 September 2020 16: 53
            +2
            In MO, too, they are not fools sitting to cut 10-15% for a dozen years.

            And what does MO have to do with it? This is not the MO decides. The Ministry of Defense has no right to "cut" or "cut" anything from anyone.
            For three years they will close "one and a half cartoon" for two

            And there, after all, the goal is not to close something. In principle, it is not possible to close the cost of an aircraft from two or three salaries.
            1. fighter angel
              fighter angel 24 September 2020 17: 02
              +2
              MO is here "with everything."
              The court, according to the statement of claim, claims the entire amount from the defendants in favor of the Ministry of Defense, represented by V / Ch such and such.
              And the recipient of the claim will be MO. Formally, in the court documents military unit such and such will appear, but in fact, it will be just the MO.
              The whole service was sued in the 90s, so I know what I'm talking about.
              1. nnm
                nnm 24 September 2020 17: 51
                +1
                You are right and wrong at the same time. At such moments, usually the military prosecutor's office is involved in the case and, in fact, it considers the damage, etc. And the unit commander here only signs the claims and nods.
                1. kin
                  kin 25 September 2020 21: 20
                  0
                  I can’t know what the prosecutor’s office thinks, but the price, as someone wrote above, is 1,2 billion rubles this is new. Every year there is depreciation of equipment, machinery and it is not small. There is a service life of these tools. Hence the damage will be considered. And since this is not a commercial equipment, there will be no loss of profits. By the way, any accountant knows the residual value of the equipment from the balance.
                  1. nnm
                    nnm 25 September 2020 21: 22
                    0
                    Sorry, I didn't answer earlier - don't forget weapons, objects on the ground, etc.
              2. Alexander Seklitsky
                Alexander Seklitsky 24 September 2020 18: 42
                +2
                And what is the better article for "sabotage" and the real term or even worse?
                1. nnm
                  nnm 25 September 2020 21: 23
                  0
                  There is no article "sabotage" in the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation
                  1. Ryazan87
                    Ryazan87 25 September 2020 21: 59
                    0
                    But there is article 347. Destruction or damage of military property by negligence - up to 2 years (if serious consequences).
                    1. nnm
                      nnm 25 September 2020 22: 03
                      0
                      These are two different things. Here, even guilt in the form of thoughtlessness, etc., cannot be tied.
                      Okay, this is the prosecutor's office. But to be honest, I would have seen how many training fights the culprit had, what kind of raid. It is always possible to put a person in prison, but for the beaten, they always give two unbeaten ones. Therefore, you do not need to cut from the shoulder. Everything in our life happens. You can make them pay for damage, etc., but let the guys live with it.
                      1. Ryazan87
                        Ryazan87 25 September 2020 23: 30
                        0
                        Here, even guilt in the form of thoughtlessness, etc., cannot be tied.

                        Why then? Negligence manifests itself in the form of negligence or frivolity, quite clear categories:
                        for example, negligence - "the person did not foresee the possibility of the onset of socially dangerous consequences of his actions (inaction), although with the necessary care and foresight, one should and could have foreseen these consequences".
                        If the pilot had shown the necessary care, the result would have been different.
                        But there are more questions, of course, to whoever was preparing the plane for departure.
                        Here, at best, negligence (Art. 293 of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation) - "that is, non-fulfillment or improper fulfillment by an official of his duties due to unfair or negligent attitude to the service or duties in office, if this entailed causing major damage ..."
                        It is not possible to punish him, but necessary. And it is worth seriously thinking about the further passage of the service of such a figure (it's not about the pilot!).
                      2. nnm
                        nnm 26 September 2020 09: 35
                        0
                        This is all clear. But do not forget, there is a letter, and there is a spirit of the law. And the BC has pointed out many times that it is the spirit of the law that matters most. There will always be time to plant, to break a person's life. Guilty? Certainly. Should the guilty be punished? Definitely. But this is what the punishment should be - for myself, for example, I cannot say.
        2. Piramidon
          Piramidon 24 September 2020 17: 54
          -9
          Quote: fighter angel
          I think

          You can think whatever comes into your head. But, there is a court decision, and leave your own speculations for the neighbors in the communal kitchen.
    2. figwam
      figwam 24 September 2020 16: 41
      0
      Probably now the weapons engineer is no longer in his position.
      1. Piramidon
        Piramidon 24 September 2020 17: 56
        -3
        Quote: figvam
        Probably now the weapons engineer is no longer in his position.

        How, has he already been condemned on the basis of the data of the Telegram channel "112" and your conclusions?
        1. figwam
          figwam 24 September 2020 18: 02
          +4
          Quote: Piramidon
          How, has he already been condemned on the basis of the data of the Telegram channel "112" and your conclusions?

          Why are you writing nonsense?
          1. Piramidon
            Piramidon 24 September 2020 18: 06
            -6
            Quote: figvam
            Why are you writing nonsense?

            I will answer the question with a question, even though I am not a Jew. Are you not writing nonsense, having already assumed the dismissal of an AV engineer? Your post
            Probably now the weapons engineer is no longer in his position.

            do you think it is very smart?
            1. figwam
              figwam 24 September 2020 18: 08
              +1
              Quote: Piramidon
              Are you not writing nonsense, having already assumed the dismissal of an AV engineer?

              No nonsense?
              Quote: Piramidon
              do you think it is very smart?

              Yes, I think smart.
              Any questions?
              1. Piramidon
                Piramidon 24 September 2020 20: 26
                -4
                Quote: figvam
                Yes, I think smart.
                Any questions?

                Well, what questions can there be for such a "smart guy" who considers all others more stupid than himself.
                1. figwam
                  figwam 24 September 2020 20: 42
                  +1
                  Quote: Piramidon
                  Well, what questions can there be for such a "smart guy" who considers all others more stupid than himself.

                  Since there are no questions, the conversation is over.
    3. Lt. Air Force stock
      Lt. Air Force stock 24 September 2020 22: 53
      0
      His life will not be enough to pay for the fighter, how much is the Su-30SM worth 60 million dollars.
    4. iouris
      iouris 24 September 2020 23: 11
      -1
      We will all be punished. While the ruble.
    5. Roman1970_1
      Roman1970_1 25 September 2020 20: 57
      0
      And how can you reimburse the cost of an aircraft in 5, 10, 15 or even 20 years.
      How much should you get?
  2. Borik
    Borik 24 September 2020 15: 57
    0
    The main thing here is that it was not some kind of technical breakdown of the aircraft, but simply a fatal accident due to which what happened. There would be more noise if the lost fighter crashed due to a technical malfunction of the aircraft itself.
  3. Alexey Sommer
    Alexey Sommer 24 September 2020 16: 02
    +2
    Quote: svp67
    Unfortunately, but such bungling, in which, during an exercise, one of its aircraft shoots down its second aircraft, alas, but not uncommon ...

    I do not know..
    I hear about this for the first time ..
    Can you give an example? Just not from the first half of the 20th century
    1. shahor
      shahor 24 September 2020 17: 25
      +1
      Quote: Alexey Sommer
      Can you give an example? Just not from the first half of the 20th century

      Well, the plane is not a plane, and a couple of days ago on the VO there was a photo of a T-90, which was hit by a missile during an exercise by mistake. Ground Forces, Air Force - the trend, however. I propose to ban the naval exercises for 30 days.
      1. Alexey Sommer
        Alexey Sommer 24 September 2020 17: 27
        +1
        Quote: shahor
        I propose to ban the naval exercises for 30 days.

        So in general, it is better to cancel all exercises? ..
        But ...
    2. Yok Migarek
      Yok Migarek 24 September 2020 21: 26
      +2
      Quote: Alexey Sommer
      Quote: svp67
      Unfortunately, but such bungling, in which, during an exercise, one of its aircraft shoots down its second aircraft, alas, but not uncommon ...

      I do not know..
      I hear about this for the first time ..
      Can you give an example? Just not from the first half of the 20th century

      I remember two such examples. In the nineties. In the ZGV with me, a MiG-29 shot down a colleague. And then in the Far East there was a similar case.
  4. The comment was deleted.
  5. Piramidon
    Piramidon 24 September 2020 16: 23
    -3
    Quote: svp67
    Unfortunately, but such bungling, in which, during an exercise, one of its aircraft shoots down its second aircraft, alas, but not uncommon.

    Are you 100% sure about this infe?
    A transcript of the pilots' negotiations appeared on the Web

    Has the commission of inquiry got it yet?
    The recording of the conversation was provided by the Telegram channel "112".

    112 - Sumerian portal
    to date, no official confirmation of this information has yet been received
    1. Nikolaevich I
      Nikolaevich I 24 September 2020 22: 45
      0
      Quote: Piramidon
      A transcript of the pilots' negotiations appeared on the Web

      And when did they promise to equip military aviation with the ZAS? ... what
    2. dauria
      dauria 24 September 2020 23: 34
      0
      Has the commission of inquiry got it yet?


      What for ? The commission receives a salary from the treasury. But the authors and site owners have to earn their own bread. The faster you crow, the more money you get. If only the news did not cool down.
      Nonsense. Earlier, "in the part concerning ..." they brought the result of the investigation months later. Not everyone. And not everything.
  6. Tank jacket
    Tank jacket 24 September 2020 20: 09
    -1
    Sergey, hi looks like the work of special services. Timed to coincide with Putin's speech at the UN General Assembly.
  • APASUS
    APASUS 24 September 2020 15: 19
    +2
    Now it looks like a "starfall" will begin, in one part serving the airfield ...........
    1. Doliva63
      Doliva63 24 September 2020 19: 06
      +8
      Quote: APASUS
      Now it looks like a "starfall" will begin, in one part serving the airfield ...........

      And OBATO, something to do with ?! belay
    2. BABAY22
      BABAY22 25 September 2020 00: 21
      +7
      The military from the part serving the airfield, whether OBATO or OBS RTO, do not touch aircraft with their hands.
  • Herman 4223
    Herman 4223 24 September 2020 15: 20
    +5
    Nus is the first su-35 shot down. It's a little offensive that this is so, but the main thing is that people are safe!
    1. akropin
      akropin 24 September 2020 15: 42
      +5
      The first shot down plane of Pokryshkin was, if memory serves, the Su-2. Very few of them were made and the model was not heard by the pilots.
      1. Herman 4223
        Herman 4223 24 September 2020 17: 32
        +2
        I have not heard, but anything can happen. The famous case when the French from Normandy-Niemen shot down a Soviet pilot.
  • Russobel
    Russobel 24 September 2020 15: 21
    +7
    Anything can happen, BUT, I'm very glad that I got ...
    So they can, and the technique can!
  • KVU-NSVD
    KVU-NSVD 24 September 2020 15: 22
    +1
    The missiles were removed from the fighter after combat duty, but the gun was not unloaded.
    I have two questions .. General - did the aerodrome services get it? And more private - the pilot bypasses the plane before departure, can he see whether the gun is loaded or not? And can he see it from the cockpit on the dashboard? The idea is to ..
    1. rotkiv04
      rotkiv04 24 September 2020 15: 27
      +4
      But of course, the system monitors the remaining ammunition
      1. KVU-NSVD
        KVU-NSVD 24 September 2020 15: 29
        -1
        Quote: rotkiv04
        But of course, the system monitors the remaining ammunition

        Then where was the pilot of the 35th looking and did he make his own mandatory inspection before departure?
        1. Temples
          Temples 24 September 2020 16: 22
          -3
          Quote: KVU-NSVD
          Then where did the pilot of the 35th look

          The pilot was looking where necessary!
          And the result is excellent - the target is hit. good

          Everyone is alive - it's great! good
          The pilots ejected.

          All systems worked perfectly! good

          Everything is fine, just a little expensive laughing
      2. ancient
        ancient 24 September 2020 16: 31
        +7
        Quote: rotkiv04
        But of course, the system monitors the remaining ammunition

        Look at yesterday's thread on this topic ... everything is there .. "chewed" to the smallest detail.
        I will repeat briefly:


        The fire control system in the "AUTOMATIC" mode provides firing with one press of the trigger switch BUT until 3/4 of the ammunition is expended.
        To resume firing, you must release and re-press the NO trigger.
        Shooting in the "cut-off" mode is carried out in bursts of 1,6 s duration (38 .... 40 rounds) with each press of the NO trigger.
        The consumption of projectiles in the process of firing is indicated on the SEI by numbers 4 ... 1 (in quarters) in the following sequence:
        - before firing, the number 4 is displayed (150 shells);
        - after spending 38 ... 40 shells (the remainder of 112 ... 110 shells), the number 3 is displayed;
        - after spending 76 ... 80 shells (the remainder of 74 ... 70 shells), the number 2 is displayed;
        - after spending 114 ... 120 shells (the remainder of 36 ... 30 shells), the number 1 is displayed;
        - when the ammunition is completely consumed, the number 0 is displayed.

        The same sequence of indication is retained for any incomplete loading of the gun mount.
        1. rruvim
          rruvim 24 September 2020 17: 30
          +2
          Absolutely agree! The very couch "flyer" on LockOn simulators, but the accidental shot could not be reproduced.
    2. Spambox
      Spambox 24 September 2020 15: 46
      14
      The cannon is not discharged during USP. The technician had to disable the cannon under the supervision of 2 specialists. The pilot cannot visually check this during a round, and this is not his duty.
      To fire a shot, the pilot had to turn the switch
      the "main" position is turned on, if this is not done, the shot will not be even when the trigger is pressed.
      1. KVU-NSVD
        KVU-NSVD 24 September 2020 15: 50
        +4
        Quote: Spambox
        The gun is not discharged during USP. The technician had to disable the cannon under the supervision of 2 specialists. The pilot cannot visually check it during a round, and this is not his responsibility

        The pilot flies on a training mission and does not have to control the state of military weapons? , and when pressing the trigger in a training battle, he should not be aware of the presence of shells?
        1. Spambox
          Spambox 24 September 2020 16: 03
          13
          Should not, the technician must disable the cannon under control before flying. Cannon shells are not unloaded during USP.
          The question is why the fire control switch was turned on in the firing position. On SS 27 it looks like this.
          1. KVU-NSVD
            KVU-NSVD 24 September 2020 16: 11
            +1
            Quote: Spambox
            questioning why the fire control switch was turned on in the firing position. On SS 27 it looks like this.

            I think it is also present on the 35th, and why the pilot did not check its position (and certain protocols for checking the aircraft systems by the pilot before departure cannot but be present) is a question. I am a land person, but I perfectly understand the logic of checking and testing military equipment before completing a mission. And according to this logic, the pilot had to check the state of the weapon systems, and this state must be checked from the cockpit. Hence, he did not check it ...
            1. ancient
              ancient 24 September 2020 17: 24
              +3
              Quote: KVU-NSVD
              I think it is also present on the 35th

              On the Su-35S, the switch is in the same place soldier

              Quote: KVU-NSVD
              and why the pilot did not check his position (and certain protocols for checking the aircraft systems by the pilot before departure cannot but be present)

              "Prayer" or "KKK" (the control report card is always present), at all stages of preparation for the flight and the performance of the flight itself.
              Before the start of the F / W, the pilot checks the installation of the weapons in the initial position, with the recording on the MS and forward ... and then ... chito on the "machine" or out of habit "turned on the" Chief " soldier
              Quote: KVU-NSVD
              Therefore, he did not check it ...

              So your conclusion is ... wrong!
              After all, there is a preparation mode, and there is already a "process" of the very execution of actions. wink
            2. iouris
              iouris 25 September 2020 01: 58
              -1
              Quote: KVU-NSVD
              I understand the logic of checking and testing military equipment before completing the task perfectly

              Logic is logic, but you have no experience of flying a fighter as a pilot. The ancients knew and understood: it is human nature to make mistakes. In a tense environment, the most "illogical" actions can be performed: for example, launching an NURS on the ascending segment of the maneuver trajectory. The driver also sometimes presses the gas instead of the brake.
          2. ancient
            ancient 24 September 2020 17: 11
            +8
            Quote: Spambox
            Should not, the technician must disable the cannon under control before flying.

            Not properly soldier
            The aircraft technician, when flying according to the USP plan, at the FCC, while maintaining the BVB, is obliged to disconnect the power supply connector of the ATP, close the hatch and report to the aircraft station technician.
            The aircraft chief technician is obliged to report to the pilot, upon acceptance of the aircraft, of its readiness for takeoff, refueling and serviceability of all systems and assemblies, as well as the state of armament and suspension and the presence of an ATS soldier
            But about the "Main" switch (not the switch wink ) and not "fire control" but "transferring the SUV system to the firing position" (i.e. powering all locks, connectors and contacts) wink you wrote everything right good
            The answer is, in my opinion. This action to turn on the "Main-Off" switch to the "Main ON" position occurred on "automatic" or "parked" during the maneuvering to hold the sighting ring in the vicinity of the crosshair .. especially energetic maneuvering the target "PC" seeks to escape ", and you must" drive "it into the center of the crosshair with the maneuvers of your plane, while you also need to avoid getting into the wake of the target.
            If the range to the "target" is 1200 meters or less, you fold the trigger to the "Intermediate" position (the display type on the HUD changes), an aiming mark and a movable crosshair appear, you combine and .... "tra-ta-ta".
            Therefore, in the excitement of the chase, and ... "grabbed the Chief" soldier
            1. KVU-NSVD
              KVU-NSVD 24 September 2020 19: 25
              +1
              Quote: ancient
              Therefore, in the excitement of the chase, and ... "grabbed the Chief"

              Those. is the 35th pilot to blame?
              1. ancient
                ancient 24 September 2020 19: 38
                +1
                Quote: KVU-NSVD
                Those. is the 35th pilot to blame?

                Not "all the same", but including ...
                1. Yok Migarek
                  Yok Migarek 24 September 2020 21: 33
                  -1
                  I suspect that on Sushki recording equipment without turning on the Main one does not write the pressing of the BC or does not turn on the recording of the "shooting" result at all. Therefore, the pilots include it. MiGs did not have such problems.
                  1. List
                    List 25 September 2020 13: 46
                    0
                    During normal flights, projectiles for the cannon are not pulled out of the aircraft. Even if this plane last fired from a cannon 300 years ago during testing. The ammunition for the cannon is always charged, but if there is no practical shooting from it according to the exercise, it must be disconnected by aviation armament specialists (with control of the actions by another specialist) with a special switch and the SHR connector is disconnected (consider that the gun is turned off from the socket).
                    It is almost impossible to control the shutdown of the cannon from the cockpit, but when performing typical attacks, the very last stage of protection, namely the "Main B" switch, does not turn on at all, and in addition, before the attack, a control clamping of the gun trigger is performed away from the target with recording on a tape recorder.

                    And only if all these numerous and obligatory actions are lost, the cannon can shoot.
                    1. Yok Migarek
                      Yok Migarek 26 September 2020 22: 27
                      -1
                      Quote: List
                      During normal flights, projectiles for the cannon are not pulled out of the aircraft. ............

                      And only if all these numerous and obligatory actions are lost, the cannon can shoot.

                      I am a military pilot. And I wonder why (or why) the Su-35 pilot turned on the Chief.
                      Why did you quote other people's thoughts to me is not clear. You know how the "Chief" differs from the "Chief B" as in your post?
                      1. List
                        List 27 September 2020 11: 52
                        0
                        The link to the author was not attached. Correcting @fighter_bomber.
              2. iouris
                iouris 25 September 2020 02: 01
                -2
                Quote: KVU-NSVD
                Those. is the 35th pilot to blame?

                Remember, judgment sets the blame. But first, an investigation and investigation is carried out, objective data and "opinions" are presented. The investigation is not over yet.
    3. Doliva63
      Doliva63 24 September 2020 19: 16
      +4
      Quote: KVU-NSVD
      The missiles were removed from the fighter after combat duty, but the gun was not unloaded.
      I have two questions .. General - did the aerodrome services get it? And more private - the pilot bypasses the plane before departure, can he see whether the gun is loaded or not? And can he see it from the cockpit on the dashboard? The idea is to ..

      For what on the horns of the aerodrome services? They cleaned the runway, provided the central lock with kerosene, drove the APA - what else do they want from them? Aircraft are handled by completely different services - regimental. Specifically, maintenance - IAS. I can assume that everyone knows everything there for a long time. And at the expense of receiving the horns or not, depends on the commander - maybe he punished, or maybe he is waiting for instructions on the amount of "punishment" from above. The second is more likely, I think.
      1. ancient
        ancient 24 September 2020 19: 51
        +2
        Quote: Doliva63
        what else do you want from them?

        Oxygen (AKZS-75M-131-P.), Air (VZ-20-350.), Oil can (MZ-66)., Hydrazhka (ZSZh-66) and .. "festive car" (VSZ-66.) fellow drinks soldier
        1. Doliva63
          Doliva63 25 September 2020 20: 30
          +1
          Quote: ancient
          Quote: Doliva63
          what else do you want from them?

          Oxygen (AKZS-75M-131-P.), Air (VZ-20-350.), Oil can (MZ-66)., Hydrazhka (ZSZh-66) and .. "festive car" (VSZ-66.) fellow drinks soldier

          Well, that's a matter of course! laughing
  • akarfoxhound
    akarfoxhound 24 September 2020 15: 23
    +5
    I really hope that this colleague, who has a little potato baking just below his back so that the service materials are drained from the network, will be found and loved in full !!!
    For compassionate commentators - my opinion does not apply to the situation itself about the size (g) of the idiots who ruined the materiel
  • Alien From
    Alien From 24 September 2020 15: 25
    +2
    This is of course a complete mess! The main thing is no sacrifice!
  • The comment was deleted.
    1. The comment was deleted.
  • Goto
    Goto 24 September 2020 15: 27
    -5
    Most likely, if the cannon is imitating the ammunition load, the pilot may display it as if it is loaded.
    1. Kerensky
      Kerensky 24 September 2020 15: 51
      0
      "Chief" is on, otherwise there would be no shot. What should the pilot display?
      1. Alexey Sommer
        Alexey Sommer 24 September 2020 16: 06
        +2
        Quote: Kerensky
        "Chief" is on,

        So, when the camera fires instead of the gun, the "Chief" is not turned on?
        1. Kerensky
          Kerensky 24 September 2020 16: 29
          0
          It is practically impossible to control the shutdown of the gun from the cockpit, but when performing typical attacks, the very last stage of protection, namely the "Main B" switch, does not turn on at all,

          In short, the DVR can work on a car with a muffled engine. If the car is driving, then the DVR also works. The difference is in the position of the ignition key.
          1. Alexey Sommer
            Alexey Sommer 24 September 2020 16: 31
            +1
            Quote: Kerensky
            It is practically impossible to control the shutdown of the gun from the cockpit, but when performing typical attacks, the very last stage of protection, namely the "Main B" switch, does not turn on at all,

            In short, the DVR can work on a car with a muffled engine. If the car is driving, then the DVR also works. The difference is in the position of the ignition key.

            I didn’t understand, sorry. Is this clear to the pilot from the cockpit?
            1. Kerensky
              Kerensky 24 September 2020 16: 43
              +1
              I didn’t understand, sorry. Is this clear to the pilot from the cockpit?

              There is a test system that runs everything and reports that the plane is properly refueled and other light and shade. There is an informant - who, without a mat, reports malfunctions by voice. There is a "Master" switch that activates another mode ...Without turning on the "Main", the fotik will work, but the cannon will not.
              1. Alexey Sommer
                Alexey Sommer 24 September 2020 16: 55
                +1
                Quote: Kerensky
                Without turning on the "Main", the fotik will work, but the cannon will not.

                It's clearer now.
                Can the pilot understand that the gun is ready to open fire when the "Chief" is turned on, or not?
                Thank you in advance. hi
                1. Kerensky
                  Kerensky 24 September 2020 16: 59
                  +1
                  And can the pilot understand that the gun is loaded when the "Chief" is turned on, or not?

                  The gun is always loaded. When the Chief is turned on, the pilot sees the remainder of the ammunition load in the quarters. He sees that the plane has switched to combat mode and how many quarters of the gun ammunition are on board.
                  If at night the adversaries discharged the gun, then in the square he will see not 4 but 0.
                  The fact that the gun is off, he will see on the ground, during the test run of the systems.
                  1. Alexey Sommer
                    Alexey Sommer 24 September 2020 17: 07
                    +1
                    I think I understood you.
                  2. Yok Migarek
                    Yok Migarek 24 September 2020 21: 36
                    +1
                    Quote: Kerensky
                    And can the pilot understand that the gun is loaded when the "Chief" is turned on, or not?

                    The gun is always loaded. When the Chief is turned on, the pilot sees the remainder of the ammunition load in the quarters. He sees that the plane has switched to combat mode and how many quarters of the gun ammunition are on board.
                    If at night the adversaries discharged the gun, then in the square he will see not 4 but 0.
                    The fact that the gun is off, he will see on the ground, during the test run of the systems.

                    The gun is not unloaded. They just turn it off. Therefore, the pilot always sees the ammunition. And in principle it cannot determine whether the gun is disabled or not. Only on the technician's report before the flight.
                    1. Kerensky
                      Kerensky 24 September 2020 22: 08
                      0
                      And in principle it cannot determine whether the gun is disabled or not.

                      Can. The test system will warn you about a gun malfunction (turning off the SHR).
        2. ancient
          ancient 24 September 2020 17: 38
          +2
          Quote: Alexey Sommer
          So, and when the camera is triggered

          FKP operates in all modes of the SUV.
          Quote: Alexey Sommer
          a camera instead of a cannon, "Chief" is not included?

          Absolutely forbidden. soldier
          1. Hexenmeister
            Hexenmeister 25 September 2020 10: 02
            +1
            FKP works in all modes of VCS ... It is strictly prohibited

            Ancient, nevertheless explain, please, such a moment.
            If we take the use of guided air-to-air missiles, then until all the launch conditions "Prepare-Prepare2-Readiness of the head-Target in the launch zone" are fulfilled, the "Start allowed" sign will not be worked out, and without it, at least you will not get your hands on the launch pad, even when the "Main" is on. Therefore, for a training battle, you need to get PR, and the training battle can in fact be considered complete, the PR will be formed without turning on the "Main", and the PR and pressing the BC will be recorded on the SOC, and the FKP writes everything like that.
            Shooting from the guns is also not done just like that "into the air", it is controlled by the OLS + LD, which form the targeting information on the HUD. Therefore, without the presence of the desired position of the aircraft, the OLS should not give permission to shoot from the cannon, and we get everything the same, the permission to use the cannon will be recorded on the SOC, the FKP is working, why pull "Chief"? It is not needed for a mock battle, and if you want it to be pulled automatically and in a mock battle, then you need another control body, which says that everything is done "in a training manner."
            Thank you.
            1. ancient
              ancient 25 September 2020 13: 44
              +1
              Quote: Hexenmeister
              why pull "Chief"?

              Write in the printsepe everything is correct ... but first I will answer your "central question" (by the way, I already answered it, that is, expressed my opinion). - the pilot accidentally, being in the excitement of the "chase" mechanically (by habit, due to practiced skills, etc.) included the Chief.
              I have never met an aircraft "duplicate" of the Chief request
              In all the flight controllers, with which I had to .. "meet" is clearly spelled out ... When flying on the TACTICAL use of ASP, it is strictly forbidden to turn on the "MAIN" switch.

              there is no readiness of the R-27R (R-27ER) missiles or the PR index is unstable (flashing), it is necessary to set the PREPARED switch. to the MAN position. (turn on the button lamp MANUAL READY).
              Well, now according to your text:
              1. "PR" is a signal that the target is at the calculated (calculated logarithmically) allowed launch range.
              2. "PREPARATION2" - this is only for the R-73 missiles (yes, the Chief needs to be turned on in 2 minutes, if you "screwed up", then switch to another missile).
              3. "Preparation" - as I understand it, "Detect-Escort-Capture"? wink There yes, the Master turns on only if there is a stable target acquisition by the master channel.
              3. "Crimp, do not crimp" I agree, only for missiles with TGSN you need it and a command about its readiness .. "get" wink
              4. "If there is no" PR "and there is no readiness of the R-27R (R-27ER) missiles or the" PR "index is unstable (flashing), then it is necessary to set the" PREPARED "switch. To the" MANUAL "position. (Turn on the lamp button PREPARE MANUAL)
              But about the VPU is not entirely true, since:
              1. In the "Non-synchronous shooting" and "Forecast track" mode, yes.
              2. But the "Forecast-track" and "Grid" modes are switched on automatically if there is no distance measurement from the KOLS or RLPK. wink
              About the second switch "Main" it is only on UB's laughing it is easier there .. there are consoles available (PIO, BULLETS, etc.). and you can safely turn off the "Main" .. and generally simulate a "bunch" of all kinds of "troubles" in flight. wink .
              Well, like that ... in short. wink
              If the "faq" messed up strongly not .. "kick" .. already the age is not the same and the memory .. "full of holes." tea for more than 25 years not .. pedal on .. "small" cars soldier
              1. Hexenmeister
                Hexenmeister 25 September 2020 14: 04
                +1
                memory .. "full of holes"
                Thank you very much for your reply! For myself I tried to restore this very "full of holes" on this issue. smile
            2. ancient
              ancient 25 September 2020 14: 01
              +1
              Quote: Hexenmeister
              for a training battle you need to get PR

              I completely forgot for an uncontrolled or emergency start or reset of the ASP (only in the conditions of G.P, but the R-73 can be overloaded up to n = 2). O.U (switches) of the PVI-10PE2 control panel are used bully
      2. ancient
        ancient 24 September 2020 17: 37
        +3
        Quote: Kerensky
        What should the pilot display?

        See wink
  • Fregate
    Fregate 24 September 2020 15: 57
    +1
    Damn, okay on the ground they didn't discharge, but the pilot should have an indicator that the gun is loaded? Okay, I didn’t see it, but before entering a training battle, you could press the trigger "to nowhere", check that it was unloaded for sure. So many opportunities to avoid and ... Well, at least none of the pilots was hurt.
    1. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 24 September 2020 16: 17
      +4
      Quote: Fregate
      Okay, I didn’t see it, but before entering a training battle, you could press the trigger "to nowhere", check that it was unloaded for sure.

      Yesterday in the comments to the article "Media: Su-30SM that fell on the eve could have been accidentally shot down by another fighter"wrote that they did not"can", but "was obliged"is the mandatory last weapon check just before the attack:
      During normal flights, projectiles for the cannon are not pulled out of the aircraft. Even if this plane last fired from a cannon 300 years ago during testing. The ammunition for the cannon is always charged, but if there is no practical shooting from it according to the exercise, it must be disconnected by aviation armament specialists (with control of the actions by another specialist) with a special switch and the SHR connector is disconnected (consider that the gun is turned off from the socket).
      It is practically impossible to control the shutdown of the gun from the cockpit, but when performing typical attacks, the very last stage of protection, namely the "Main B" switch, does not turn on at all, and in addition, before performing the attack, a control clamping of the gun trigger is performed to the side of the target with recording on a tape recorder.
      © К-612-О
    2. mortido
      mortido 24 September 2020 16: 27
      -4
      Quote: Fregate
      Damn, okay on the ground they didn't discharge, but the pilot should have an indicator that the gun is loaded? Okay, I didn’t see it, but before entering a training battle, you could press the trigger "to nowhere", check that it was unloaded for sure. So many opportunities to avoid and ... Well, at least none of the pilots was hurt.

      They have every ammunition there under consideration, maybe the pilot decided that when checking, instead of the prescribed number of shells, he would spend more, then report back, etc. But in the end, I still got into trouble ... apparently the day did not work out, angered God with something
  • nnm
    nnm 24 September 2020 16: 08
    -1
    It seems that the main part of the "dialogue" in order to preserve the literary goodness of the great and mighty, we were not given ...
    1. KMS
      KMS 24 September 2020 16: 19
      +2
      Quote: nnm
      It seems that the main part of the "dialogue" in order to preserve the literary goodness of the great and mighty, we were not given ...

      Especially the pilots of the downed fighter, I can imagine what they went through
    2. Doliva63
      Doliva63 24 September 2020 19: 26
      +1
      Quote: nnm
      It seems that the main part of the "dialogue" in order to preserve the literary goodness of the great and mighty, we were not given ...

      I have never heard any obscenities on the air. I'm talking about the Air Force.
      1. ancient
        ancient 24 September 2020 19: 56
        +1
        Quote: Doliva63
        I have never heard any obscenities on the air. I'm talking about the Air Force.

        I confirm ... almost never ... except ... in rare cases when everything ends tragically ... and RP and ... from the cockpit ... soldier
        1. Doliva63
          Doliva63 25 September 2020 20: 46
          +1
          Quote: ancient
          Quote: Doliva63
          I have never heard any obscenities on the air. I'm talking about the Air Force.

          I confirm ... almost never ... except ... in rare cases when everything ends tragically ... and RP and ... from the cockpit ... soldier

          Fortunately, I haven't heard when it ends tragically. But there were cases - surging on takeoff (bailout); some problems with the blades, when there is speed, but the speed drops (ejection); when at the training ground a comrade caught the leader of the bomb fragments in the "head-on" (he sat down!); when the afterburner "jammed", and with the KPI they offered a solution with an error (the pilot, it seems, then left for SHLI); and yes, when the X-25 was tested and it exploded immediately after launch - well, everything was nervous, of course, on air, but absolutely "within the framework." And remember the landing of 31s in Komi not so long ago - there is practically no fuel even for taxiing, and they do not swear with the dispatcher, but even joke with each other. "BBC is a wonderland" drinks
        2. nnm
          nnm 25 September 2020 22: 10
          0
          The people did not want to offend anyone. Fair. Just flyers in my memory are still those razstars. Like that Chkalov with his flight.
      2. alexey alexeyev_2
        alexey alexeyev_2 26 September 2020 20: 54
        0
        And how can a woman dispatcher from Salekhard perceive such a request "You will receive five sticks for the night" Military An-12 asked to spend the night in Salekhard. Board number 11111
    3. Maxim73
      Maxim73 25 September 2020 22: 05
      +1
      Brevity is the sister of talent, and swear words complicate the perception of information.
  • Odysseus
    Odysseus 24 September 2020 16: 16
    +2
    It is not clear why they are talking about the Su-30SM. Su-30M2 from the 3rd regiment in Krymsk.
    The case, of course, is unprecedented and sad. There the technician did not switch, here the pilot did not make a check queue.
  • sergo1914
    sergo1914 24 September 2020 16: 23
    +1
    I think real negotiations (if we remove the words that censorship replaces with dots) contain only two printed words. This is "gun" and "cancer".
  • Dmitry V.
    Dmitry V. 24 September 2020 16: 30
    +1
    The missiles were removed from the fighter after combat duty, but the gun was not unloaded.

    She is not discharged at the USP. Disabled by technical staff.
    During normal flights, projectiles for the cannon are not pulled out of the aircraft. Even if this plane last fired from a cannon 300 years ago during testing. The ammunition for the cannon is always charged, but if there is no practical shooting from it according to the exercise, it must be disconnected by aviation armament specialists (with control of the actions by another specialist) with a special switch and the SHR connector is disconnected (consider that the gun is turned off from the socket).
    It is almost impossible to control the shutdown of the cannon from the cockpit, but when performing typical attacks, the very last stage of protection, namely the "Main B" switch, does not turn on at all, and in addition, before the attack, a control clamping of the gun trigger is performed away from the target with recording on a tape recorder.
    And only if all these numerous and obligatory actions ......., the cannon can shoot.

    https://diana-mihailova.livejournal.com/5477900.html
  • Keyser soze
    Keyser soze 24 September 2020 16: 31
    +8
    In if the Americans have done some shooting each other represent a Satyricon would rend here ... negros snipers, pilots on drugs, let's, dropout knocked buddy, one less, and so on. D., And so on. N. bully

    And it's so good that everyone is alive. And the Americans should be afraid of the Russian cameras too - they shoot not for children ...
    1. Shiden
      Shiden 24 September 2020 23: 12
      +1
      The most important thing is not to draw an asterisk on the plane, otherwise in a week they will post a photo on the Internet and the community will click on the keyboard until the holes where the fighter shot down the enemy.
  • Dikson
    Dikson 24 September 2020 16: 41
    0
    It is sad, of course .. - a clear violation ... It's good that the pilots remained intact ... Now they write on the sites, near Kherson on the exercises Ukrainian T-72 ??? crushed a car with American instructors .. 8 corpses ..
  • Kerensky
    Kerensky 24 September 2020 16: 47
    0
    The pilot acted as he studied on the simulator, and there the "Chief" turns on, "to consolidate the skill."
    Well, the test system will catch the connection of the SHR connector on the ground.
  • malyvalv
    malyvalv 24 September 2020 16: 48
    0
    Good excuse for the future. In half a year, they will shoot down an American somewhere in Syria and say an accident. They wanted to take a picture and it was how it came out. It happens with us.
  • yfast
    yfast 24 September 2020 17: 08
    +1
    It is high time to shift the functions of monitoring the state of weapons to computers. But no.
    1. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 24 September 2020 18: 59
      +1
      Quote: yfast
      It is high time to shift the functions of monitoring the state of weapons to computers. But no.

      And what's the use?
      Quote: Kerensky
      The pilot acted as he studied on the simulator, and there the "Chief" turns on, "to consolidate the skill."

      In the presence of a computer, the pilot will do everything exactly the same - "in combat", just automatically.
      And if the technician forgot to disconnect the gun before this flight by manually disconnecting the connector from it, then what would prevent the same technician before departure in the same way from forgetting to put a tick in the field "training flight"? what
      So the computer won't give a 100% guarantee either.
  • Dzafdet
    Dzafdet 24 September 2020 17: 28
    -5
    What about Rezun: a soldier is lying on the training ground and thinks to shoot at the target or at the lieutenant? Looks like the reflex worked ...
  • yfast
    yfast 24 September 2020 19: 09
    -1
    Quote: Alexey RA
    So the computer won't give a 100% guarantee either.

    The type of departure is set to the computer - combat or not.
    Someone decides whether to bomb or study. Someone, somewhere, signs the assignment. And this is not a technician who can forget to discharge a cannon. If you sit in the Abrams, then you won't go anywhere and you won't shoot anywhere,
    until you enter the system and what else is there - I don't know. It is necessary to take the best from the enemies, you can along the way and find fault with them.
    1. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 24 September 2020 19: 19
      +1
      Quote: yfast
      The type of departure is set to the computer - combat or not.

      So I write about it:
      Quote: Alexey RA
      And if the technician forgot to disconnect the gun before this flight by manually disconnecting the connector from it, then what would prevent the same technician before departure in the same way from forgetting to put a tick in the field "training flight"?

      Quote: yfast
      Someone decides whether to bomb or study. Someone, somewhere, signs the assignment. And this is not a technician who can forget to discharge a cannon.

      Do you really think that the Comrade Commander himself will personally check all the checkboxes? Yes, shchaz ... they will put a bespectacled lop-eared on this business, who will be distracted in the same way, forget, think what he has put, etc.
    2. ancient
      ancient 24 September 2020 20: 00
      +1
      Quote: yfast
      Someone somewhere signs the assignment

      The regiment commander and the chief of staff signs the signature ... when they sign the PTP for the flight shift (as well as all the leading specialists from the IAS, ATB and OBS, well ... meteo wink
      The technician puts his signature in the pre-flight preparation log and the pilot signs the acceptance there.
      1. K-36
        K-36 24 September 2020 23: 09
        0
        Greetings ancient! drinks
        I was amused, why did they stick Kharchevsky's photo to the article? He has been a pensioner for over a year
        lol
  • yfast
    yfast 24 September 2020 19: 30
    0
    Quote: Alexey RA
    Do you really think that the comrade commander himself will personally check all the checkboxes?

    No, we must make sure that the plane does not take off for a training battle with a loaded cannon. Well, it won't start.
    1. agoran
      agoran 24 September 2020 19: 43
      -1
      Sorry, but this technique doesn't work that way.
      All the s-you are in the parking lot with the tape connected and art weapons.
      When flying to a test site, a tape for 40 shells is disconnected.
      When "Alarm", weapons are suspended according to the task.
    2. ancient
      ancient 24 September 2020 20: 02
      +1
      Quote: yfast
      so that the plane does not take off for a training battle with a loaded gun

      Airplanes for any battles, and not only ... "for training" themselves do not fly wassat lol
  • awesom3-lutsevich
    awesom3-lutsevich 24 September 2020 22: 19
    0
    Where aviation begins, order ends there - an old tale. Stalin's falcons got lost
  • K-36
    K-36 24 September 2020 22: 35
    +6
    Quote: qqqq
    Quote: Piramidon
    Do not run into a technician directly. Do you know exactly what direction he got?

    then he must answer. The law is harsh, but it is the law.

    I have something to tell you. Of course, your call to punish the guilty is formally fair. But at the same time it is clear (for me) that you have nothing to do with aviation. To clarify (Vaam, and others impatient, requiring immediate punishment):
    1. Today's Air Force lacks pilots. To compensate, the very wise Shoigu allowed girls to be admitted to flight schools. yes
    The veterans have the same oil painting ... About two years ago there was a paper from the upper headquarters about urgent recruitment for helicopters in the military. under 27 years of age and with a diploma from any technical college.
    2. About two years ago, the media published (on behalf of Shoigu) some plans to change the rules for retirement and pension accrual. So, according to these plans, the officers (and other contractors) were offered to pay 2 years' salary (according to the last official salary) upon dismissal, and start paying the pension like the entire male population of Russia, that is, from the age of 65. yes In flight smoking rooms, this issue was excitedly discussed. I know that many of my acquaintances decided not to renew their contracts, so that at 45 they could have time to get a job somewhere in order to reach their well-deserved pension.
    3. During my service (head of the PDS regiment), I was obliged to look through quarterly collections on flight safety every quarter. In them, I clearly saw that the number of killed pilots in situations where they had time to eject, somehow steadily grows. That is, the pilots did not jump!
    And it was all the fault of the work of the political commissars (of course, on orders from above!) With the flight crew, driving the feelings of the sovereign people into the heads of the pilots about the costs of the state budget in the event of the loss of expensive aircraft. I reported this to the regiment commander. And a year later (approximately) Deputy. The Air Force Clavkom for BP (gen / p-k Golubev) issued a directive in which (from memory, but almost literally yes ) there were such words: " Ejection of a pilot in a flight emergency requiring abandonment of the aircraft is considered a fulfillment of military duty... ) !!!

    Apparently, they calculated how many pilots (who could survive !!!) they lost due to commercialism and excessive zeal of political officers.
    So in aviation, before applying the harshest penalties, very balanced first analyze and think!
    Sorry for the many words, but I had to say it ...
    hi
  • viktor.
    viktor. 25 September 2020 01: 27
    +1
    Thank God that the guys are alive and well !!! drinks And Fight (training) Gave them an unforgettable Lesson! good
  • mmaxx
    mmaxx 25 September 2020 04: 28
    0
    "When God put things in order on earth, aircraft flew in the sky."
    What can you do, this was, is and will be in the aviation of any country that flies sad
  • zontov79
    zontov79 25 September 2020 06: 01
    0
    Well, in general, it turned out to be a real air battle, +100 to the experience of both pilots. Now, even in a training battle, you need to fly as in the present.
  • Livonetc
    Livonetc 25 September 2020 09: 25
    0
    Quote: Piramidon
    Quote: qqqq
    Actually, there is a discussion of the version

    But then you imagine it here as some kind of final RESULT. Are these your words? -
    I do not know how to prepare an aircraft for a training battle, but judging by the result there are specific violations and specific people should answer

    unambiguously talk about it
    Only it is not clear what the result is?

    This violation, with a high degree of probability, will be classified as "criminal negligence".
    That is, the incident was the result of criminal negligence.
  • eleronn
    eleronn 25 September 2020 14: 53
    0
    During normal flights, projectiles for the cannon are not pulled out of aircraft. Even if this plane last fired from a cannon 300 years ago during testing. The ammunition for the cannon is always charged, but if there is no practical shooting from it according to the exercise, it must be switched off by aviation armament specialists (with control of the actions by another specialist) with a special switch and the SHR connector is disconnected (consider the gun is turned off from the socket)!
    It is almost impossible to control the shutdown of the cannon from the cockpit, but when performing typical attacks, the very last stage of protection, namely the "Main B" switch, does not turn on at all, and in addition, before the attack, a control clamping of the gun trigger is performed away from the target with recording on a tape recorder. 

    And only if a bolt is hammered into all these numerous and obligatory actions, the cannon can shoot.
  • Sancho_SP
    Sancho_SP 25 September 2020 21: 14
    0
    Well, this is definitely a CANNON! ;)
  • Nikita Vinogradov
    Nikita Vinogradov 26 September 2020 12: 45
    0
    I am not a pilot, but I am an air defense officer and am familiar with the "electronic shot" mode, which is used for training calculations. It can be either a computer simulated target or a real target. By the way, the commander of the Valdai anti-aircraft missile regiment tore the hair on the priest afterwards that he fulfilled the command from above to use the "electronic shot" mode on Rust and report to the top that "the target was conditionally destroyed" instead of disobeying and destroying it in reality! If I had known the buy-in, I would have lived in Sochi, as they say ... An electronic shot is a certain action with pressing certain toggle switches. A real combat shot is OTHER specific actions by pressing other toggle switches. If the shooting officer deliberately uses the "electronic shot" mode, then it doesn't matter that there are a lot of missiles on the launchers - none of them, even in theory, can be launched! Even in THEORY! And vice versa - with a deliberate combat launch mode - the inclusion of the "electronic shot" mode is EXCLUDED! I am sure that the pilot on the display sees his ammunition in a missile and projectile manner, and the technician's forgetfulness does not matter here even if it was! The pilot activated the photo shot mode, and the shell was fired? Don't fuck people's brains! The pilot made the mistake of using the live fire mode! Of course, if there were no ammunition, then there would not have been a shot - but combat or photographic shooting is NOT regulated by LOADING / unloading the ammunition! The pilot specifically mistakenly applied the live fire mode and, accordingly, shot down perfectly! The option of using the photo shooting mode by him, but shooting with a projectile, in my opinion, is EXCLUDED even in theory! (No one canceled foolproof protection in systems!) These are different modes, different channels.
  • Igor Semenov
    Igor Semenov 26 September 2020 12: 54
    0
    Applause
  • certero
    certero 26 September 2020 13: 58
    0
    But they showed well that our pilots can shoot.
  • alexey alexeyev_2
    alexey alexeyev_2 26 September 2020 20: 39
    0
    Also news to me ..Since six months ago, the NATO members fought a couple of fighters .. An aircraft technician on the ground accidentally pressed the wrong button .. as a result, until the fighter fired all the shells, he did not calm down .. The human factor, however .. In this respect, they are not very different from us