The mystery of the origin of the "Ukrainians"

Sophia Cathedral. Kiev

Kiev without Russia and separately from Russia is unthinkable in any case. Kiev is one of the ancient capitals of the Russian land, the Kiev region is a part of the Russian world. "Ukraine" and "Ukrainians" come from the word "outskirts", and these words appeared during the Polish occupation of the western and southern Russian lands.

The mystery of the origin of the "Ukrainians"

We live in amazing times. States, peoples and languages ​​are artificially created. Among them are "Ukraine" and "Ukrainians". Independence is a false, artificial theory that has no historical, national or linguistic basis. The emergence of "Ukrainian" is completely connected with external factors, ideological, military-political and material support of the opponents of Russian civilization (Rus-Russia). Among them are Catholic Rome, Poland, Austria-Hungary, Germany, France, England and the USA. They strove by separating an artificial ethnic "Ukrainian" community to tear away from Russia its southwestern part ("outskirts-outskirts"), to dismember a single Russian superethnos. To play off, to push together parts of the Russian people, to bleed them, in order to subordinate Russia to the West.

Interestingly, right up to the 1917 revolution, the population of Ukraine-Little Russia (part of the Russian world) in the overwhelming majority considered themselves Russian. At that time, "Ukrainians" were isolated representatives of the Little Russian intelligentsia, who became victims of Polish and Austrian propaganda. That is, “Ukrainians”, both during the times of Bohdan Khmelnitsky and Mazepa, and during the times of the leader of the Directory, Vladimir Vinnichenko in 1918, or under the President of Ukraine, Volodymyr Zelensky in 2020, are ultimately the same Russians. Only the degree of "programming" is different. If at the beginning of the XX century almost all the inhabitants of today's Ukraine considered themselves Russians and Rusyns, then at the beginning of the XXI century - only a part. Moreover, they are all descendants of Russians, they speak and think in Russian, live on Russian soil and in Russian cities.

Thus, "Ukrainization" is an artificial phenomenon, caused by the enemies of the Russian people with the aim of dismembering and destroying Russia, plundering its wealth. The existence of an "independent" Ukraine is beneficial only to the external and internal enemies of the people. Internal enemies are traitor politicians, oligarchs-thieves and the comprador bourgeoisie, which grows rich in the sale of national resources and the trade in foreign goods.

Circumcision of Russian history

The enemies of Russia not only divided the single Russian world and people, but also began to create “history Ukraine-Rus ". They say that the Russian-Muscovites are an inferior people, the descendants of the Mongols and Finnish tribes, there is almost no Slavic blood in them. The real descendants of the Rus-Rus are Ukrainians. As a result, the entire Kiev era of Russian statehood with all the princes, heroes, victories, and an amazing rise in spiritual and material culture entered the "Ukrainian history". Here and "The Tale of Bygone Years", and "The Lay of Igor's Campaign", and Oleg the Prophet with his shield at the gates of Constantinople, and the campaigns of Svyatoslav Igorevich, and Vladimir the Baptist. And then Bogdan Khmelnitsky, philosopher G. Skovoroda, Feofan Prokopovich, Razumovsky and Kochubei, Repin and Vrubel, Glinka and Gogol and many others.

Russian history was cut off to Muscovy. They deprived her of the Kiev period. Outstanding statesmen and cultural figures of Rus-Russia were declared “Ukrainians”. Moreover, at the moment when the pro-Western version of world history ("classical") began to burst at the seams and facts began to appear in a multitude that the Rus-Russians were part of the history of the Ancient World, in Ukraine there were immediately people who declared "Ukrainians »Direct descendants of the Scythians and Aryans.

Today's Banderites capture not only the common Russian history, but have also declared themselves the masters and true heirs of the Russian Donbass, Kharkov, Crimea, Zaporozhye, Novorossiya, Severshchina-Chernigov, Kyivschina, etc. history, the fact that the Left Bank (Kiev and Chernigov region) was freed from the power of Poland only thanks to the bloody Russian-Polish war of 1654-1667, and the Right Bank Ukraine became part of Russia after the Partition of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth. That in 1917 Little Russia-Ukraine consisted of only five provinces: Kiev, Podolsk, Volyn, Poltava and Chernigov. It was for such a "power" that the Central Rada claimed. In fact, it was the patrimony of Bohdan Khmelnitsky (Left-Bank Ukraine). Petliura did not even lay claim to Novorossiya, the southern part of Present Ukraine. The Rada did not apply for Galicia either. The Lviv region and the Carpathian region remained under the rule of the Poles and Czechoslovakians.

The current Ukrainian nationalists do not want to know that the Donetsk-Kryvyi Rih Republic with the overwhelming majority of the Russian population was annexed to Ukraine by Lenin only in 1918. Then the supporters of "Ukrainians" were given a very generous gift - Kharkov and Yekaterinoslav, the Donetsk basin, the adjacent industrial areas of the former Don Cossack. The Russians were not asked to agree. The question was purely political. Also, the Ukrainian SSR included the historical Novorossia, the Northern Black Sea region, developed, rebuilt and populated by Russians. Newborn Soviet Ukraine received a developed industrial east and ports in the south.

Galicia and Volhynia were presented to the Ukrainian SSR by Stalin in 1939 (he took them away from Poland). As well as Transnistria and Bukovina, which were recaptured from Romania in 1940. Subcarpathian Rus (Carpathian Rus) was part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire, then Czechoslovakia, in 1939 it was occupied by the Hungarians. And only in 1944 the region was liberated by the Red Army. Stalin included Prykarpattya in Ukraine. After the war, Lviv, which was inhabited at that time mainly by Poles, became a "Ukrainian" city. In fact, the western part of present-day Ukraine is all gifts from Joseph Vissarionovich. For this he was given a large monument in Lviv. In 1954, the new Soviet leader Khrushchev incorporated Crimea into Ukraine. Before that, the peninsula was part of the RSFSR and was inhabited mainly by Russians. Thus, Russian and Soviet rulers created modern Ukraine with their gifts!

How the "Ukrainians" were created

Having opened any Soviet or pre-revolutionary history textbook (nowadays, many textbooks have already been rewritten to please politics), you can find out that before the period of feudal fragmentation, the capital of Russia was Kiev. Inhabited by South and Western Russia (western part: Carpathian and Galicia-Volyn Rus, Transnistria and Danube) Russian. They were also called Rus, Dew, Rusich, Rus, etc., but this does not change the essence. These same Russian-Rus (millions of people!) Lived on the lands of their ancestors in the following centuries. During the Horde, the Polish-Lithuanian occupation, the uprising of Bohdan Khmelnytsky and Mazepa.

All documents, historical annals show that in the XVI-XVII centuries. Southern and Western Russia (the Greeks began to call this region "Little Russia") were inhabited by Russians. There was no radical change in the ethnocultural and linguistic appearance of Chernihiv and Kiev regions. Communities of Tatars, Poles, Jews, etc. appeared, but the bulk of the inhabitants were Russians. Where did the millions of "Russians" go later, in the XNUMXth-XNUMXth centuries, and where did the "Ukrainians" come from?

During the reign of Catherine II, almost all areas of Kievan Rus were reunited in one empire. They were recaptured from the Turks, Crimean Tatars and Poles. At this time, the feeling of all-Russian unity was experiencing a new rise. At this time, a largely artificial theory about the triune Russian people was adopted: Great Russians, Little Russians (Ukrainians) and White Russians. That is, the Russians were divided into three branches (already a step towards dismemberment), but it was recognized that the people were one. The theory of a “separate Ukrainian people” was recognized only by a few Ukrainian representatives of the Little Russian intelligentsia. Moreover, this theory was alien, brought from "think tanks" in Rome, Warsaw, Vienna and Berlin with the aim of dismembering Russia and the Russian people, weakening it, pitting Russians against Russians. The people did not support her and were indifferent to nationalist myths.

The Petliurites, who tried to create "Ukraine", suffered a complete defeat. The people in Little Russia and New Russia for the most part supported the Whites, Reds, or Makhnovists. Only the internationalist revolutionaries after the civilizational and state catastrophe of 1917 decided to create a Soviet Ukraine and the "Ukrainian people." Ukraine and the "Ukrainian people" were created by a directive order, having enrolled in it millions of Russian people. Since that time, the Soviet government supported only that part of the society that was considered "Ukrainian" in Ukraine. For this, the policy of Ukrainization was pursued, the Russian urban culture was destroyed, and the rural “Ukrainian” culture was actively promoted. This Sabbath was covered by Stalin. Then everything repeated itself after the Nazi occupation and under Khrushchev. Under Brezhnev, there was a rollback again, innovations did not take root. Ukrainization won only after the collapse of the USSR and the creation of an "independent" Ukraine. However, this does not negate the fact that Kiev, Chernigov, Poltava, Kharkov, Odessa and Lvov are Russian cities, and Little Russia (Russia) is part of the Russian world. And today's Ukrainians are Russians.

Comments

[NEXUS]

That is, the Russians were divided into three branches (already a step towards dismemberment), but it was recognized that the people were one.

All these "dismemberments" in Ukraine, in Belarus, and in other former Soviet republics must be tried ... as in Nyurberg for crimes against people. For behind them is such a train of corpses that Hitler can envy.

[Nasrat]

Quote from text:
Thus, "Ukrainization" is an artificial phenomenon caused by the enemies of the Russian people with the aim of dismembering and destroying Russia, plundering its wealth.


In 1921, at the Tenth Congress of the RCP (B.), Stalin declared: “... Recently, it was also said that the Ukrainian republic and Ukrainian nationality were an invention of the Germans. Meanwhile, it is clear that Ukrainian nationality exists, and the development of its culture is the duty of the Communists. You cannot go against history. It’s clear that while Russian elements still prevail in Ukrainian cities, these cities will inevitably be Ukrainianized over time. "

In April 1923, the XII Congress of the RCP (B.) Declared "indigenization" the party's official course on the national question. In the same month, the XNUMXth KP (b) U Conference announced the policy of “Ukrainization”, which the Ukrainian Central Executive Committee and the Council of People's Commissars immediately issued decrees.

It was decided to Ukrainianize state structures and enterprises, which was planned to be completed by January 1, 1926. However, the then leadership of the Ukrainian SSR did not show much zeal, and in April 1925 Emmanuel Kviring was removed from the post of first secretary of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of Ukraine, and a faithful Stalinist, Lazar Kaganovich, was appointed to his place. Forced Ukrainization began.

[Virus-free crown]

Quote: Nasr

Quote from text:
Thus, "Ukrainization" is an artificial phenomenon caused by the enemies of the Russian people with the aim of dismembering and destroying Russia, plundering its wealth.


In 1921, at the Tenth Congress of the RCP (B.), Stalin declared: “... Recently, it was also said that the Ukrainian republic and Ukrainian nationality were an invention of the Germans. Meanwhile, it is clear that Ukrainian nationality exists, and the development of its culture is the duty of the Communists. You cannot go against history. It’s clear that while Russian elements still prevail in Ukrainian cities, these cities will inevitably be Ukrainianized over time. "

In April 1923, the XII Congress of the RCP (B.) Declared "indigenization" the party's official course on the national question. In the same month, the XNUMXth KP (b) U Conference announced the policy of “Ukrainization”, which the Ukrainian Central Executive Committee and the Council of People's Commissars immediately issued decrees.

It was decided to Ukrainianize state structures and enterprises, which was planned to be completed by January 1, 1926. However, the then leadership of the Ukrainian SSR did not show much zeal, and in April 1925 Emmanuel Kviring was removed from the post of first secretary of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of Ukraine, and a faithful Stalinist, Lazar Kaganovich, was appointed to his place. Forced Ukrainization began.

My answer is simple
I myself am 33,33 percent Russian, 33,33 percent Belarusian, 33,33 percent Ukrainian ... and so ... there is NO among my relatives !!! one person (although there are indigenous Belarusians and there are indigenous Ukrainians) - for whom the Belarusian or Ukrainian language is native We are all Slavs !!! and the division into "nations" - "the machinations of enemies" !!! and for us the Russian language is NATIVE !!! we even think on it !!! not to mention the fact that we speak it !!!

[BAI]

I myself am 33,33 percent Russian, 33,33 percent Belarusian, 33,33 percent Ukrainian.

It doesn't work that way. One person cannot have 3 parents at once. 50-25-25, 25-25-25-25 are another matter.

[Virus-free crown]

Quote: BAI

I myself am 33,33 percent Russian, 33,33 percent Belarusian, 33,33 percent Ukrainian.

It doesn't work that way. One person cannot have 3 parents at once. 50-25-25, 25-25-25-25 are another matter.

I'm already tired of writing to everyone about every occasion that I had a silver medal at school - 4 were in Russian and literature !!! Well, it is not given to me to correctly express my thoughts !!!

I wanted to say that my family traces its history back to the early 1700s, and in my blood there are Russians, Belarusians and Ukrainians 1: 1: 1 !!! noted

[Konstantin Shevchenko]

Nationality is transmitted through the paternal line, maybe 100: 100: 0, 100: 0: 0: 0. Well, according to A.A. Klyosov. should be 100: 100: 100 100: 100: 100: 100 (this is relative to what BAI wrote)

[Virus-free crown]

Quote: Konstantin Shevchenko

Nationality is transmitted through the paternal line, maybe 100: 100: 0, 100: 0: 0: 0. Well, according to A.A. Klyosov. should be 100: 100: 100 100: 100: 100: 100 (this is relative to what BAI wrote)

1. On the paternal side 1: 1: 1 in the family of Russians, Belarusians and Ukrainians
2. On the Matrinsky line (a la Isril - tama on the female line counts) - 1: 1: 1 in the lineage of Russians, Belarusians and Ukrainians

so who am I ?!

[Konstantin Shevchenko]

A.A. Klyosov claims that Russians, Ukrainians, Belarusians are one people, so on the paternal line 100% Russian. Klyosov has a separate topic about a la Israel On the paternal side, there is one surname on the paternal side, the father-in-law is not taken into account.

[Alexander Sosnitsky]

most Ukrainian words have analogs in Russian. It's just that different territories of one whole are accentuated on different common word sets. You don't need to prove anything else. Language is the main feature of nationality. The division of peoples is a policy that is harmful to the peoples. Small nations grow weak and disappear. This is harmful to all peoples. But Ukraine has its own characteristics of merging and mixing of peoples - steppe people, starting from the southern side of the Golden Gate. The Circassians (Avars) were settled further south in order to close the Golden Gate in time, the signal was transmitted in smoke. The Cherkasy people are the Cossacks who completely inhabited the Dnieper and left bank from the Caucasus to the Carpathians, inclusive. They annexed Eurasia to Russia up to Alaska. But historically, all the Aryans who came out of Hyperborea. All whites are northerners Europeans who have forgotten their roots a little. The Anglo-Saxons are their mixture with the Jews, like the Khazars (ankhely, zaki). The Jewish tribe was really unique and everywhere created royal courts in many nations. They are the lost 10 tribes of the sons of Abraham.

[BAI]

so who am I ?!

Who you think you are. Nikolai 2 is a purebred German (not to mention his wife). But nevertheless - the Russian Tsar and the Russian Tsarina.
If you want to count from ancestry, then we are all Jews. And twice - first from Adam, then from Noah.

[EvilLion]

Nicholas 2 is not only a Russian tsar, he is a tsar of many other things, which is normal for the feudal system.

[Gunter prereen]

Can you take a genotype test? Look, some more interest will come out.

[EvilLion]

Nationality, as a kind of transmitted, that is, a genetic entity does not exist in nature. The same Anatoly Wasserman, recalling that his grandmother still knew Yiddish, is not a Jew himself, because he grew up exclusively surrounded by Russian culture.

[Yuri Gulov]

There is such a science. Genetics. Don't write bullshit.

[Konstantin Shevchenko]

And what does the science of genetics say, is there really an iron argument against DNA?

[Doliva63]

Quote: Crown without virus

Quote: BAI

I myself am 33,33 percent Russian, 33,33 percent Belarusian, 33,33 percent Ukrainian.

It doesn't work that way. One person cannot have 3 parents at once. 50-25-25, 25-25-25-25 are another matter.

I'm already tired of writing to everyone about every occasion that I had a silver medal at school - 4 were in Russian and literature !!! Well, it is not given to me to correctly express my thoughts !!!

I wanted to say that my family traces its history back to the early 1700s, and in my blood there are Russians, Belarusians and Ukrainians 1: 1: 1 !!! noted

I also had ancestors in my family from the territories of present-day Ukraine, Belarus, but then, in the 1500s, they spoke and wrote in Russian. In any case, documents of those years can be read without translation.

[Bar1]

Quote: BAI

I myself am 33,33 percent Russian, 33,33 percent Belarusian, 33,33 percent Ukrainian.

It doesn't work that way. One person cannot have 3 parents at once. 50-25-25, 25-25-25-25 are another matter.

maybe. There is a scientifically established fact - this is telegony, the effect of the first man, when a woman will give birth to children always with the features of the first man. That is, the third will always be present.

[Boris ⁣ Shaver]

Quote: BAI

It does not happen.

It doesn't work that way. But not because by combining three "blood" in pairs it is impossible to obtain a ratio of 33.33% through a certain number of generations (with a given accuracy up to 2 digits). We take three groups of "purebred" ancestors, numbering: 171, 171 and 170 people. Only 512 ancestors, i.e. this is 8 generations back (power of two). Let's mix them. We calculate the percentage of each of the groups of "bloods" in total: 171/512, 171/512 and 170/512 (do not forget to multiply by 100), round up to the 2nd decimal place, we get 33.33 with a given accuracy. Purely mathematically.
This does not happen for another reason. Because both the first and the second and the third are Russian. And how can you not combine Russian with Russian - 33.33% of Russian blood will not work. All the time will be 100%

[tihonmarine]

Quote: Corona without virus

I myself am 33,33 percent Russian, 33,33 percent Belarusian, 33,33 percent Ukrainian ..

Yes, we are all probably like that, all Slavs, and our native language is Russian.

[boni592807]

tihonmarine (Vlad), yesterday, 18: 57, NEW - "... Yes, we are all probably like that, all Slavs, and our native language is Russian ...."


Of course Russian, especially oriental (Belarusians, Little Russians and Novorossians, Great Russians, which is: -th territorial, but not ethnic) with the presence of local dialects and "layering" of the nearest neighbors. An example is pronunciation in the Vologda region - O - cabins, in the Moscow region - A - cabins, etc.

[credo]

Quote: Nasr

Quote from text:
Thus, "Ukrainization" is an artificial phenomenon caused by the enemies of the Russian people with the aim of dismembering and destroying Russia, plundering its wealth.


In 1921, at the Tenth Congress of the RCP (B.), Stalin declared: “... Recently, it was also said that the Ukrainian republic and Ukrainian nationality were an invention of the Germans. Meanwhile, it is clear that Ukrainian nationality exists, and the development of its culture is the duty of the Communists. You cannot go against history. It’s clear that while Russian elements still prevail in Ukrainian cities, these cities will inevitably be Ukrainianized over time. "

In April 1923, the XII Congress of the RCP (B.) Declared "indigenization" the party's official course on the national question. In the same month, the XNUMXth KP (b) U Conference announced the policy of “Ukrainization”, which the Ukrainian Central Executive Committee and the Council of People's Commissars immediately issued decrees.

It was decided to Ukrainianize state structures and enterprises, which was planned to be completed by January 1, 1926. However, the then leadership of the Ukrainian SSR did not show much zeal, and in April 1925 Emmanuel Kviring was removed from the post of first secretary of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of Ukraine, and a faithful Stalinist, Lazar Kaganovich, was appointed to his place. Forced Ukrainization began.

That's right, the communists made the most serious efforts to divide the Slavs into Russians, Ukrainians and Belarusians, which was not the case in the Russian Empire and in Russia, and Stalin was directly involved in this Sabbath.
Small-town surzhiks of rural hinterland were turned into the so-called. Ukrainian and Belarusian languages, obliging Russians to be called Ukrainians and Belarusians. The filthy business turned out to be not tricky, but very contagious and the local "elites" took advantage of it. The result is obvious.

[tatra]

Well, again, the cowardly ideology of those who divided the USSR among themselves into your evil anti-Soviet-Russophobic "independence-self-sufficiency" - "but we have nothing to do with it, it's all the communists to blame. And you yourself have something else to do with it." , besides what you GOT after the destruction of the USSR?

[Lopatov]

Quote: tatra

Well, again a cowardly ideology

Why did the Communist Party of Ukraine exist, but the Communist Party of Russia did not?

Quote: tatra

Russophobic

"A decisive struggle against the remnants of Great Russian chauvinism is the first immediate task of our party"Stalin, 1923

[tatra]

So, do you agree with everything that I have written about YOU, the enemies of the Communists? And can you do nothing to refute my words about YOU? And so I will answer each of the enemies of the Communists, who, in response to my comments about THEM, cowardly "turn arrows" on the Communists,

[Lopatov]

Quote: tatra

So, do you agree with everything that I have written about YOU, the enemies of the Communists? And can you do nothing to refute my words about YOU? And so I will answer each of the enemies of the Communists, who, in response to my comments about THEM, cowardly "turn arrows" on the Communists,

This is not an answer.
After all, the question is extremely simple ... Is it scary to answer it?

[tatra]

Learn, enemies of the USSR, first to defend YOURSELF, and what you have done YOURSELF. And then all 30 years after you captured the USSR, you have a schizophrenic "ideology" - everything is only about the Bolsheviks-Communists, and a categorical reluctance to discuss yourself, what you did during the Soviet period and after you captured the republics of the USSR,

[Lopatov]

In reality, the bot responds.

[tatra]

What, and there is nothing to answer? The enemies of the USSR on the territory of the USSR are not capable of anything normal, including discussions about the history of their country.

[lucul]

"A decisive struggle against the remnants of Great Russian chauvinism is the first immediate task of our party" Stalin, 1923

Well, Great Russian chauvinism, in the concept of the Bolsheviks, is when the Russian people are ruled by a Russian ruler. So they fought with him, with this very chauvinism, in order to actually hide the occupation of power, in order to drive into the heads of the people that a "foreigner" on the throne is good ...
This is what a virus / parasite does, posing as its own in order to take over a healthy body.

[Lopatov]

Quote: lucul

Well, great Russian chauvinism, in the concept of the Bolsheviks, is when the Russian people are ruled by a Russian ruler

"One cannot even approach here from the point of view of the equality of nations, and Comrade Lenin repeatedly proved this. On the contrary, we must say that we, as a former great-power nation, must go against nationalist aspirations and put ourselves in an unequal position in the sense of even greater concessions to national currents. Only with such a policy, going across the board, only with such a policy, when we artificially put ourselves in a position lower than others, only at this price will we be able to buy ourselves the real trust of formerly oppressed nations"
Bukharin, Twelfth Congress of the RCP (b). April 17-25, 1923

[lucul]

only at this price can we buy ourselves the real trust of the formerly oppressed nations "

So how is it ? Have you bought trust? For 70 years then. Apart from curses and hatred, they achieved nothing.
It was actually a cover, and the real goal was to instill a sense of guilt and inferiority in the Russian people, so that it would be easier for foreigners to rule ...

[DNS-a42]

Quote: lucul

So how is it ? Have you bought trust? For 70 years then. Apart from curses and hatred, they achieved nothing.

Curses and hatred appeared exactly when they abandoned the Soviet world and began to build their own Georgian, Ukrainian, Russian, Turkic, etc. worlds. The logical result of 30 years of anti-Soviet policy.

Quote: lucul

to make it easier for foreigners to rule ...

This is about the Holstein-Gottorp-Romanovs.

[Foul skeptic]

Why did the Communist Party of Ukraine exist, but the Communist Party of Russia did not?

Why did the Communist Parties of all the other republics of the federation exist? Maybe because there is a central core and its branches? Does renaming the Communist Party of the USSR into the Communist Party of the USSR-RSFSR make sense?

[Lopatov]

Quote: Nefarious skeptic

the central core and its branches?

?????

Quote: Nefarious skeptic

Why did the Communist Parties of all the other republics of the federation exist?

Nonsense. Did not exist
For example, the "Chechen-Ingush Republican Committee of the CPSU", not the "Communist Party of Chechen-Ingushetia"

[Foul skeptic]

Nonsense. Did not exist

As if the USSR is a federation of 15 republics. Continue to claim you didn't exist?

?????

It was necessary to study the history of the CPSU. To remember that she was the RKPb before the CPSU. The core to which the parties of the republics joined at the time of joining the federation. Read the materials of the XIV Congress so that questions about a separate party for the RSFSR will disappear

[Dart2027]

Quote: tatra

to your evil anti-Soviet-Russophobic "independence-self" - "and we have nothing to do with it, it's all the communists are to blame

So who created them if not the communists?

[DNS-a42]

Anti-communists, no?

[Dart2027]

Quote: DNS-a42

Anti-communists

So they were in power? And where were the communists?

[DNS-a42]

The communists lost to them.

[anykin]

Communists are gamblers.

[Dart2027]

Quote: DNS-a42

they lost

That is, there were no communists in the Communist Party? Well, why was she needed at all?

[DNS-a42]

There were, but by 1991 there were few of them. The party must regularly cleanse itself of crooks, which was practically not observed in the post-Stalin period. Lesson for the future.

[Dart2027]

Quote: DNS-a42

The party must regularly cleanse itself of crooks,

Who will clean up the cleaners?

[DNS-a42]

There must be grassroots initiative, otherwise the party will always break away from the people.

[Dart2027]

Quote: DNS-a42

Grassroots initiative should be

That is, no one.

[DNS-a42]

Labor collectives.

[Dart2027]

Quote: DNS-a42

Labor collectives

As I already wrote it means nobody. Everyone in the village knows about everyone, but in cities everything is not so simple.

[DNS-a42]

For this, there is a delegate revocation.

[Dart2027]

Quote: DNS-a42

and there is a delegate revocation

And who exactly will withdraw? A faceless "collective"? Well, well ... Besides, apart from the delegates, there will be no such thing as the nomenklatura and officials?

[DNS-a42]

It will be, they need to be shaken up regularly. Read how the councils worked after the revolution.

[Dart2027]

Quote: DNS-a42

Read how the councils worked after the revolution

Do you propose to organize a revolution every 5-10 years? I'm not scoffing, but absolutely seriously, because it won't work any other way.

[DNS-a42]

Then Soviet democracy was born spontaneously, but even this spontaneity was enough for 50 years to come. This may well become a long-term practice today.

Do not allow the restoration of the past system, keep an eye on the party and state. apparatus, then the revolution will not have to be done again. This is not a matter of desire, but a conscious need.

[Dart2027]

Quote: DNS-a42

but even this spontaneity was enough for

while Stalin kept the elite in his fist. As soon as the reins were weakened, and everything went on and on.

Quote: DNS-a42

It's not a matter of desire, but

a beautiful theory that is practically impracticable.

[EvilLion]

There is only one question, but what for the Bolsheviks needed, they had no other problems? And how did it happen that there are no Bolsheviks yet, their leaders are only in foreign countries, and the so-called. the central council has already appeared in Kiev. How many Ukrainians were there really to be paid attention to, and not sent to receive treatment, to the Napoleons and Tutankhamuns?

[EvilLion]

As a result, in 1930, the Bolsheviks grew wiser and closed the shop.

[Boris ⁣ Shaver]

Quote: Nasr

Stalin said: “... Recently it was said that the Ukrainian republic and the Ukrainian nationality are an invention of the Germans. Meanwhile, it is clear that the Ukrainian nationality exists, and the development of its culture is the responsibility of the communists.

Divide and conquer

[Witness 45]

Stalin at that time was just a figure in the leadership of a purely nominal, real policy, both internal and external, was determined by Trotsky and his followers, with whom Stalin in 10 years would begin a life and death struggle.

[Viking1966]

Cultural and linguistic differences between Ukrainians, Russians and Belarusians began to appear even before the revolution. However, the national policy of the leadership of the Russian Empire was such that these differences became a real border between the peoples inhabiting Russia. The division into Russians and non-Russians, including Ukrainians and Belarusians, has led to the emergence of a nationally oriented intelligentsia, which with terrible force began to cultivate the distinction of its nationalities from the Russians. And we are talking not only about Ukrainians or Belarusians, it is just that in relation to them, the whole perniciousness of such a policy was clearly manifested. By the way, many nationally oriented representatives of the peoples of Russia joined the revolutionary movement in the hope of obtaining that very "national identity." In many ways, this is precisely what explains the policy of the communists in the early 30s. And if we also take into account that the leadership had a fairly large number of people from various national regions, then the adoption of such decisions does not seem so strange or populist. And one more reason - during the revolution and civil war in many national regions, it was the nationally oriented forces, in other words, nationalists, that gained great influence. And if the Bolsheviks had followed the path of the tsarist government, the Soviet Republic would not have survived. Only the understanding that there are many nationalities, and the country is one, helped a lot during the Great Patriotic War both at the front and in the rear. After all, the Nazis used nationalists to their fullest, but they never received mass support anywhere, except, perhaps, in the Baltic states, and then only because the Soviet power with its national approach did not last long there.

[Alexey Sommer]

Quote: NEXUS

All these "dismemberments" in Ukraine, Belarus, and other former Soviet republics must be tried ..

As VVP said on this matter, there is no one to ask this question / judge now.
And the most significant contribution to the process of division of Russians was made by the Soviet power, whatever one may say.
The centuries that the "accursed tsarist regime" treated this problem of uniting the Russian, Ukrainian and Belarusian people, which was actually divided since the Middle Ages, for example, the Kiev principality existed absolutely independently from the 12th to the 17th century, the Grand Duchy of Lithuania existed from the 13th actually the 18th century and actively fought with Russia. Thanks to the Soviet regime, they practically went to dust and today the overwhelming majority of Ukrainians do not consider themselves Russian.
What to do now with this psychology of Ukrainians, I personally do not understand.

[Nasrat]

Quote: Alexey Sommer

And the most significant contribution to the process of division of Russians was made by the Soviet regime.

Not in division, but in the destruction of the people's (Russian) self-consciousness ...
Please find Chechnya and Ingushetia on the map

And on this map find Ukraine:

[Nikolai Korovin]

Thanks for the cards. In Soviet times, there was practically no place to get such clear and distinct information. Everything was carefully retouched. For example, in the Atlas of an officer of 1947, the border of the German occupation of 1918 is also designated as the border of the Ukrainian SSR, which did not exist yet. It is difficult, but it is necessary to get rid of the stamp that has been hammered in for decades - the Germans, they say, have occupied Ukraine. Although the Central Rada has already proclaimed something there, but, of course, not within the boundaries established by Lenin.

[NEXUS]

Quote: Alexey Sommer

Thanks to the Soviet regime, they practically went to dust and today the overwhelming majority of Ukrainians do not consider themselves Russian.

Did you conduct a general poll? Or so, they scribbled the bulldozer, and even dragged the USSR? In the USSR, the concepts of Ukrainian, Russian, Georgian, etc. were actually conditional. THERE WAS A SOVIET MAN.
The question is that Ukraine as a geographic entity is not homogeneous in its essence. Eastern Ukraine does not live like Western Ukraine. Here the Poles and the Hungarians (historically) got in advance.
But again, it is still far from over. When it comes to the Ukrainians, even those who are stubborn with propaganda, that they cannot survive without Russia (and this will happen), they will start looking for ways to repent, sprinkling ashes on their stupid head. Historically, such precedents have already existed. Let us recall the Crimea during the time of Catherine, and how it became part of the Russian Empire. The process is not fast, but effective. And this applies not only to Ukraine, but also to Belarus, and Kazakhstan and Moldova.

[Alexey Sommer]

Quote: NEXUS

Did you conduct a poll?

Why do you ascribe to me what I did not write?
First, I wrote the overwhelming majority, not the universal.

Quote: NEXUS

In the USSR, the concepts of Ukrainian, Russian, Georgian, etc. were actually conditional. THERE WAS A SOVIET MAN.

Maybe, but for some reason the nationality was written in the passport. Apparently, what would not be forgotten?
But in the Republic of Ingushetia and the Russian Federation, nationality was not and is not written in the passport. just citizenship. One might wonder why it was in the USSR. all the same, a passport can hardly be called an empty formality, isn't it?
As for the state of the brains of the local residents, I was also delusional, like you, or I don’t know how to say hope?
But there were no illusions when my cousin living near Odessa, who in 1991 considered herself Russian, by the way, the real daughter of a Soviet officer, called me an occupier in 2014, and the arson of the house of trade unions in Odessa was a Russian provocation.
That's it.

[tatra]

And all this is a consequence of the fact that the enemies of the communists who seized the republics of the USSR are not only conducting their anti-Soviet propaganda, but also Russophobic. Both they and their adored anti-Soviet West after the destruction of the USSR have clearly proved that anti-Sovietism is ALWAYS equal to Russophobia.

[Nikolai Korovin]

Crimea under Catherine became part of Russia exclusively by force of arms. The wishes of the masses had nothing to do with it. As for the new historical community - the Soviet people, we were announced the end of its formation just when the nationalism of the borderlands began to raise its head. I won't say exactly the year, but around 1980. In the 60s, of course, everything was different. The memory of the jointly won war was still fresh.

[anykin]

Quote: NEXUS

the concept of Ukrainian, Russian, Georgian, etc. was actually conditional

Don't wake up smartly while it's quiet. Were conditional became unconditional.

[Kronos]

And they did everything right in the USSR, developing national cultures.

[Nasrat]

Quote: Kronos

And they did everything right in the USSR, developing national cultures.

Before they developed, now they shoot at each other ... Kirghiz with Uzbeks, Azerbaijanis with Armenians, Chechens with Ingush, etc. ...

[Kronos]

So they have long-standing conflicts even before the creation of the USSR

[NEXUS]

Quote: Kronos

And they did everything right in the USSR, developing national cultures.

190 peoples live in our Immense! And it seems like, although they live in different ways, with their own customs, religion, etc., but never a single Udmurt or Nenets would think to separate from the Russian Federation. And how much they laughed at the Chukchi, but this is a very wise people who spun all this nonsense about identity, the European path of development, democracy, etc. on the reproductive organ.

[Alexey Sommer]

Quote: Kronos

And they did everything right in the USSR, developing national cultures.

Well, of course, right from the point of view of the nats of the outskirts, but from the point of view of the Russians, I sooooo doubt to put it mildly.

[credo]

Quote: Kronos

And they did everything right in the USSR, developing national cultures.

Against the background of how national cultures are not developing in the United States, while there are no national regions and disputes on this basis, the experience of the USSR in this regard is the best example of the fact that there is no point in developing national cultures, except for the culture of the main ethnic group.
I hope that in modern Russia there will be no national academies of sciences and national cinema, as well as other attributes, so as not to raise stubborn natsiks.

[Kronos]

Well, in general, now in the United States there are now powerful ethnic conflicts, just because of ignoring the problems of non-whites.

[credo]

Quote: Kronos

Well, in general, now in the United States there are now powerful ethnic conflicts, just because of ignoring the problems of non-whites.

Actually, these are not interethnic, but interracial conflicts, to which white Americans themselves led. But this is already from another opera.

[tatra]

The communists were simultaneously engaged in Russophile propaganda, and at the same time, and developed national cultures. And among their enemies on the territory of the USSR there are neither patriots, nor even nationalists, but only local racists. They do not have love for their country and people, but hatred for other countries and peoples.

[nnm]

Quote: Alexey Sommer

As VVP said on this matter, there is no one to ask this question / judge now.

In the sense? The same Gorbachev seems to be alive. Like most of the accomplices .... So, it turns out, the question is not in the absence of those. to whom can the question be addressed, but in the unwillingness to ask it?

[Alexey Sommer]

Quote: nnm

In the sense? The same Gorbachev seems to be alive.

do you mean to attract him as responsible for the collapse of the USSR? In this case, I agree completely. But he did not draw the borders of the republics with a crooked finger.
Here, I think another article on it.

[tatra]

EVERY country is somehow divided geographically. And Gorbachev's crime is also that he gave freedom of speech and action to the separatists.

[DNS-a42]

Quote: Alexey Sommer

The centuries that the "accursed tsarist regime" treated this problem of uniting the Russian, Ukrainian and Belarusian people

Completed treatment ...
Stalin I.V .:

Tsarism killed all activity of the popular masses of the outskirts. By all this, tsarism generated among the local national masses the deepest mistrust, sometimes turning into hostile relations, towards everything Russian.

Quote: Alexey Sommer

What to do now with this psychology of Ukrainians, I personally do not understand.

Can they figure it out themselves?

[EvilLion]

Thanks to the Soviet regime, the so-called. Ukrainians know Russian very well, so 25% of Ukrainians in Crimea signed up as Russians, and no one noticed. The fact is that, despite all the dill, the use of MOV in Ukraine has been declining all the years of independence, and continues to decline now.

[Boris ⁣ Shaver]

Quote: Alexey Sommer

The Kiev principality existed absolutely independently from the 12th to the 17th century

You understand the word "independently" somehow perversely.
Russia in general consisted of principalities. And the centrifugal forces between them, due to the lust for power of the appanage princelings and "help" from beyond the hillock (mainly for the western territories), often led to the fact that on the battlefield the Russian chopped the Russian. Or to the fact that the invader took our lands piece by piece, breaking fingers one by one, not gathered into a fist. But the forces uniting our people certainly prevailed. These forces relied on the aspirations of the people themselves and on the uniting efforts of the central government (collecting Russian lands). The 20th century presented us with a central power, which in these processes turned 180 degrees, being alien to the people and wanting to weaken it by separating and destroying (or rather, an attempt at such destruction) of its foundations (persecution of faith, calls for sprinkling ashes on the head for former strength and tn.).

[Odysseus]

Quote: NEXUS

Here are all these "dismembered" in Ukraine, in Belarus, in other former Soviet republics must be tried ... as in Nyurberg for crimes against people

They forgot about Russia. And it is not entirely clear how you are going to judge them when the dismemberment is in power. It is more likely that they will judge you for extremism.
But the point is, this is an emotional and wrong reaction. On the other side of the border, hundreds of the same articles are printed, but with the opposite sign, about the great Ukrainians, the invading barbarians from Russia and the evil Bolsheviks who staged a Holodomor against the freedom-loving Ukrainian people and pursued a Russification policy. And people on the other side of the border react in the same way emotionally - woo, enemies, judge them! This is how the same dismemberments work against which you oppose.

[tatra]

Both in the Russian Empire and in the USSR, for the most part, peoples coexisted calmly and peacefully, and the enemies of the communists, who seized the USSR and divided it among themselves, immediately began to plant anger and hatred between peoples, play peoples against each other, and unleash wars between peoples ... And in the Republic of Ingushetia there was a positive history of their country, and in the USSR there was a positive history of both the Republic of Ingushetia and the USSR, ya the enemies of the communists have NO positive history of their country. Their "history" is only ANTI-Soviet and RUSOFOB.

[Nikolai Korovin]

Well, there is still more behind Hitler. But one field of berries.

[tatra]

If you take only the USSR, it's the same. Hitler and the Nazis destroyed 26 million Soviet people, and after the seizure of the Soviet republics by the enemies of the communists like Hitler and the Nazis, the supermortality rate of the Russian and Ukrainian peoples alone amounted to more than 19 million people.

[CSKA]

Quote: NEXUS

Here are all these "dismemberments" in Ukraine, in Belarus, in other former Soviet republics must be tried

Well, the main thing, Lenin will no longer work.

[Clear]

And today's Ukrainians are Russians.

Maybe genetically, but in fact ...

[NEXUS]

Quote: Clear

And today's Ukrainians are Russians.

Maybe genetically, but in fact ...

In fact, you just have to work and love your small and large Motherland. But what did the Ukrainians do? They are like a cat that has nothing to do, and he licks his testicles. In 14, Maidans, strikes, rallies ... instead of working, developing, strengthening the economy. But on the other hand, the testicles are blazing right now.
A bunch of dorms and idlers have sucked people's brains and continue to do so. Balabols do not create anything, they do not produce anything ... they are beggars. And it’s such a rabble of idlers who pick up the Western soros, give them money so that their chatter seems weighty and truthful. But de facto, all this is empty chatter and remains.

[Shiden]

Here I am surprised by people like you who seem to write well-grounded comments, but to look at the situation with a sober critical look, be lazy. Explain my message to VO criticize the authorities for promising manna from heaven but do not fulfill them. And the result means you are a parasite and a loafer and power nothing to do with, well, an official cannot fulfill his promises with such people.

[cniza]

Quote: Clear

And today's Ukrainians are Russians.

Maybe genetically, but in fact ...

Yes, this is a very difficult question, this is how the people differ from the population, and the process is always in dynamics.

[sergo1914]

Samsonov, where about Tartary? Everything goes from there.

[Konstantin Shevchenko]

So they write, everything comes from Poland and everything that lies behind it towards the sunset.

[Ded_Mazay]

So, what is the relevance and novelty of the article?
What is there in it that would not have been voiced earlier and therefore required the writing of a separate, new article?

[Alexey Sommer]

Besides, it is full of quite gross errors, to put it mildly.

[Invoce]

Which I sometimes quote when talking with stubborn dill. Ukrainians know their history, because it is a part of our common history, but the foaming at the mouth proves that all this is a LIE, and neither they nor their children were taught this at school. And the elderly already forget everything.This is how the legends about the excavated Black Sea and the Ai-Petri Ridge and the Caucasus are born

[Kushka]

Try to do the same with Lukashenka.
He stated directly (regarding statehood):
I don't care what was there or not!
Belarus and the Belarusian people exist today, and
it will be so!
When the Empire exiled the relatives of Isus (to the outskirts
empire) there the toads croaked and people were
like the devil, and today there are two nuclear
powers - France and England. Well, tell me
to them that they are no one there and to call them in any way.

[nnm]

Quote: Corona without virus

for the hundredth time it dawned on me - after all, the truth is gutara in the song ...

Even so? And what is the truth in that song, besides the outspoken Nazi calls for extermination along ethnic lines?

[Virus-free crown]

Quote: nnm

Quote: Corona without virus

for the hundredth time it dawned on me - after all, the truth is gutara in the song ...

Even so? And what is the truth in that song, besides the outspoken Nazi calls for extermination along ethnic lines?

Well, first of all, there is NO! words about "outspoken Nazi calls for extermination along ethnic lines" Don't forget that I'm practically the only one here on the forum who "drowns" for compliance with the Laws of the Russian Federation !!! otherwise I would not have posted this video !!!

Secondly, the "hero" of this song is me ... 99% ... was ... until I understood the meaning of the song ... But when I saw myself in this song - for the hundredth time listening ... I became different ...

[nnm]

Quote: Corona without virus

Well, first of all, there is NO! words about "outspoken Nazi calls for destruction

You know, when in court a bribe-taker says that he discussed cabbage and lemons on the phone, and not a bribe, then he is simply read out the conclusion of a linguistic (in my opinion) examination, which tells him - no, dear, you can say anything , but according to the meaning of your words and their direction, you discussed exactly millions. Or, you think that if the killer says “yes, I loaded him with two olives,” the court will say “oh, yes, we were talking about the products, well then we’ll disagree!” No, it doesn't work that way. You gave an example of exclusively nationalist appeals.

And you didn't answer specifically - what is the truth in this song? Specifically. From all of the above.

[Virus-free crown]

Quote: nnm

Quote: Corona without virus

Well, first of all, there is NO! words about "outspoken Nazi calls for destruction

You know, when in court a bribe-taker says that he discussed cabbage and lemons on the phone, and not a bribe, then he is simply read out the conclusion of a linguistic (in my opinion) examination, which tells him - no, dear, you can say anything , but according to the meaning of your words and their direction, you discussed exactly millions. Or, you think that if the killer says “yes, I loaded him with two olives,” the court will say “oh, yes, we were talking about the products, well then we’ll disagree!” No, it doesn't work that way. You gave an example of exclusively nationalist appeals.

And you didn't answer specifically - what is the truth in this song? Specifically. From all of the above.

Duck no fAPros !!!

I propose to talk even HARDER than in the Russian court of 2020 - let's talk like "bandit shooters" in the 1990s ... (figuratively speaking !!! ) - where every word could cost a life ... (by the way, if you did not carefully read my posts here - turned gray at 25 - 26 years ago - - but survived )

What is the song about ?! in your opinion?

[nnm]

Quote: Corona without virus

by the way, if you did not carefully read my posts here - turned gray at 25 - 26 years ago - - but survived

Excuse me most humbly, but I cannot classify myself as admirers of your work in the epistolary genre ...

Quote: Corona without virus

What is the song about ?! in your opinion?

In my opinion - only about one thing, that SMERSH did not work well at the time.
And you, as I suppose, will not be able to answer my question specifically, listing the events mentioned in the "song"?

[Virus-free crown]

Quote: nnm

Quote: Corona without virus

by the way, if you did not carefully read my posts here - turned gray at 25 - 26 years ago - - but survived

Excuse me most humbly, but I cannot classify myself as admirers of your work in the epistolary genre ...

Quote: Corona without virus

What is the song about ?! in your opinion?

In my opinion - only about one thing, that SMERSH did not work well at the time.
And you, as I suppose, will not be able to answer my question specifically, listing the events mentioned in the "song"?

Okay ... if in fact you know Russian even worse than me ... "I'll part it on your fingers" ...

In fact, I am a "chain dog" of the USSR ... I was brought up ... no ... the word "brought up" does not fit here ... I was TRAINED !!! in due time - having received the ORDER !!! - "press the red button" and start the Third World War ... Thank God !!! - I am no longer liable for military service ... and I cannot press the red button ..

and for the song ... listen to it 100 times at least !!! maybe you (like me at one time) will understand about the Russian soul

I wrote - read again - what I wanted to do with a man who plays the accordion and I was NOT joking then !!!! I even know his name and place of residence (I had to spend money, but I still found out )

On the other hand ... since I am writing here ... and he is alive and well ... then I have grown wiser !!!

[maktub]

Not a single word about genocide in the song
The meaning of the song: - Moskal-, this is a boor a barbarian, invader, murderer, alcoholics are tied to any nationality. Kill a Moskal in your soul e

[Virus-free crown]

Quote: maktub

Not a single word about genocide in the song
The meaning of the song: - Moskal-, this is a boor a barbarian, invader, murderer, alcoholics are tied to any nationality. Kill a Moskal in your soul e

Well, at least one person was found who understood the song !!!

[maktub]

You just need to listen to the words

[Stas1973]

To the author of the article.
First, define the term "Russians". When did it appear, who introduced it into circulation, and so on. And then draw conclusions on the "Ukrainians".
VO editors or moderators.
It is a shame to allow such articles, without extended moderation, namely, the author's links to historians, scientific works, etc., to be allowed "on the air".
So I immediately have a question - why the author of the article casually identifies Rus with Russia and Rus with Russians.
My opinion.

[Undecim]

Are you reading this author for the first time? It is for some reason that the opus was stamped in Opinions. And so usually in the "History" section, which the author supervises on the site, his delirium is printed. Take a look at yesterday's publications.

[The leader of the Redskins]

I have read little historical in the article. But the agitation industry is above the roof. I don't know what prompted the author to write this opus.

[maktub]

It was always interesting when the Moscow principality appropriated the names Russia and Russians. After the capture of Novgorod? Muscovy, Tartaria are mentioned in early western sources
Question: - why in the Ukrainian and Belarusian languages ​​the names of the months coincide with the Old Slavonic, but not in Russian?

[Dym71]

Quote: maktub

Question: - why in the Ukrainian and Belarusian languages ​​the names of the months coincide with the Old Slavonic, but not in Russian?

Answer: This is the influence of Latin, the same is the case in Bulgarian, Macedonian, Slovak, partly in the Slovenian languages.
And the fact that we have a single language, this fact is confirmed by Slovio - an artificial language created in order to be understandable for those who speak the languages ​​of the Slavic group without any further study !!!
Example:

[Procopius Nesterov]

Then the Ukrainians are the Mongols once Kiev Batu captured and destroyed? You can find out in what chronicle you saw all these herbs and lutes, or how are they there? There are no such names in the annals, why did you decide from what written sources that this is so? Here is an example from the annals
“Rostislav was a valiant, warlike husband, handsomely built and handsome in face and merciful to the poor. And he died in February on the 3rd day and was laid there in the church of the Holy Mother of God "

[Procopius Nesterov]

The word Russians are in the annals, Ruskii / Ruski / Russk / Russkii / Russian.
But the Rus or Rusichi is already something modern. There is no Ukrainian word at all.

[paul3390]

The Zapadents are not Slavs at all. After Batu's invasion, there were practically no people left in Southern Russia. Some were cut out, some were driven away to the full, some rushed to the north. It is enough to read contemporaries such as Plano Carpini or Robruk. They clearly say - the land is empty, there are no people. So they are the descendants of fragments of all steppe inhabitants and other peoples, with a very small admixture of the remaining Slavs. Yes, it is enough to look at their appearance - well, which of them are Slavs? As from the Bulgarians, approximately .. The East was inhabited in the time of Catherine from the central regions, that is, by purebred Russians. Hence, there is still a clear difference even at the everyday level between the West and the East, between a mixture of non-Russians and Russians .. It is not for nothing that the Western folk memory does not remember anything about the times of Kievan Rus, all the legends are not earlier than the 15th century .. Because this is not their ancestors, why should we remember them? And all the epics about heroes were recorded exclusively in the north, where part of the Slavic population of southern Russia moved ..

[parusnik]

And today's Ukrainians are Russians.

... So what? What conclusion? Or are we waiting for the second part?

[Lexus]

Alexey
There are so many articles about 404 every day that there are already several thousand parts. You are behind "life".

[parusnik]

Honestly, I'm already tired of this "naval theme" about country 404, it is such an impression that you live in this country ...

[Victorio]

Grand Duchy of Ruska (1432-1435)
===
key moment - 7 years. and on the rest of the links, so it seems that they do not contradict the article material in any way, maybe I missed something

[rotkiv04]

Nobody contributed more to the creation of the false statehood of Ukraine and the pseudonation of Ukrainians than Ulyanov (Lenin). This nit planted a time bomb and now it went off in 91. No, there have never been and never will be Ukrainians and Ukraine, there has always been and will be Little Russia and Little Russians (read RUSSIAN)

[Kronos]

There is no such thing in history, it has always been and will be.

[tatra]

You YOURSELF, enemies of the USSR and the Soviet people, confess what you consider to be your crimes when you cowardly blame the Bolshevik-Communists for what you have done YOURSELF. After the October Revolution, it was YOU who unleashed the Civil War, seized Russian lands and created your separate states on them. It was YOU who divided the USSR among yourselves in your evil and deceitful anti-Soviet Perestroika. And if you cowardly dumped the responsibility for this on the communists, you yourself recognized it as your crimes. And the period after you captured the USSR is a total degradation in everything, without exception, including the vocabulary of those who own the country. The communists and their supporters have never allowed themselves such vulgar rudeness as the enemies of the communists had with their "freedom of speech", which they so longed for under the USSR.

[rotkiv04]

I said specifically about Ulyanov (Lenin), do not attribute your fantasies to me

[Operator]

"Ukraine" and "Ukrainians" (as well as "Belorussia" and "Belarusians") were created by the Bolsheviks in the 1920s within the framework of the policy of the so-called. indigenization in order to divide the peoples of the USSR into artificially cut national republics to prevent resistance from the majority of the population - the Russian people.

In these regions, before the indigenousization, "Ukrainians" and "Belarusians" were in the minority and lived mainly in rural areas. The majority of the population, mainly in the cities, were Russians and Jews. In the course of the indigenous policy, leading positions in state structures and in production were received by those who signed up for “Ukrainians” and Belarusians, up to anecdotal cases when, for career reasons, one brother was registered as “Ukrainians,” while the other remained Russian.

It is time to restore historical justice - to bring the Russian army into these regions, and deport all the "Ukrainians" and "Belarusians" who did not want to recognize themselves as Russians to Europe, to which they so strive.

[paul3390]

to prevent resistance from the majority of the population - the Russian people.

A rare nonsense. The Bolsheviks simply wished to create a proletariat as soon as possible in the polls peasant Ukraine, and for this they annexed the industrial Russian regions of the East to it. By recording their population as Ukrainians. For then - no one saw anything special in this. What difference does it make who you are according to your passport, because everyone is the Soviet people .. Yes, it turned out to be a terrible mistake later, but the motives were completely different. They could not accurately predict the collapse of the USSR in the national republics ..

No less nonsense about the type of resistance of the Russian people - if they were sharply against the Soviet regime, the Bolsheviks would have won the Civil War .. Without the massive support of the population, this is simply impossible. I am already silent about the Patriotic ..

[Shiden]

I’m wondering if you know how the working proletariat came from, where did it come from, or you weren’t told in the classroom at the accounting school.

[Rokambol]

Can enlighten us strangers?

[Shiden]

So for you to conduct an educational program. Well, you know your ancestry well, where your ancestors lived before you became urban. You may not answer in almost 80% of urban residents have village roots. And now the answer to the Izhora or St. Petersburg worker, in your opinion, is completely all Germans, after all, comrade writes that in Ukraine, Ayzerbadzhan, Georgia, Belarus, the workers were entirely Russians. So your opus shows a person who trusts TV more than his brains.

[Operator]

You have a mess in your head - where is the Civil War (1918-1920) and where is the dismemberment of Russia (RSFSR) into national Soviet republics (1922)?

Well, your statement that the Russians in the Second World War only dreamed of lying under the Germans in opposition to the Bolshevik regime (like "to spite my mother, I will frostbite my ears") is worth a lot

[tatra]

You're lying. It was YOU, the enemies of the Bolshevik-communists, who created individual states on the territory of the RI-USSR.

[Procopius Nesterov]

Actually, open any constitution of the USSR from the very first. The republics are independent according to them with the right to exit, and this was done by the Bolsheviks.

[Odysseus]

This is not the question at all. The author's fundamental mistake is that he thinks of the people as something natural and eternal, and yet this concept is a cultural phenomenon - the people is a derivative of economic, political, cultural conditions. It changes , and does not abide in eternity. So the phrase, Ukrainians-Russians, which many of our radical patriots love so much, simply does not make sense. So it was once, but now it is perfectly possible to create a completely separate from the Russians and even a hostile nation of Ukrainians. And if by this Ukrainian you say that they are Russians, they simply will not understand you or they will think that you are crazy.
Moreover, even a separate nation formally bearing one name can be reformatted beyond recognition. The record was set here by the Germans - in the 20th century, within one Germany at different times there were 5 (!) Different German peoples.
So the question is not at all to "prove" that Ukrainians do not exist and to brand the "vorogov" who invented it. This is the road to nowhere.
The challenge is to now , and not 300 years ago, through a reasonable policy (and it can include all the tools from military force to cultural influence) to create and support such citizens of Ukraine who would consider themselves Russian (and also Russians not in the sense of Chubais or Yeltsin).

[Victorio]

Quote: Odyssey

create and maintain such citizens of Ukraine who would consider themselves Russian

===
not to fat, I would live. to want, to desire, even to be able to do little, you also need a capital. and pressure on the Russian Federation, the general world economy, a pandemic and others, in the form of their own liberal "non-slaves", requires internal concentration.

[Niel-le-Calais]

Quote: Odyssey

So it was once, but now it is perfectly possible to create a completely separate from the Russians and even a hostile nation of Ukrainians. And if this Ukrainian you say that they are Russians, they simply will not understand you or think that you are crazy.

To be kindred people (USSR) / one people / (RI) - no difference.
Moreover, you can always combine. A Russian Ukrainian, for example, or a Russian from the Russian Federation (Russian / Russian is only possible in Mov, but Russian is different) Russian from the USA, etc.
Moreover, hostility. The reasons are also temporary. Territorial disputes after 2014 have become the reason for the hostility of the largest Russian country after the Russian Federation towards the Russian Federation. And until the reasons for this go away, there will be hostility. Moreover, hostility is mutual.
I agree with you that you need to do something here and now in order to keep in your orbit, and not blame the Poles / Austrians / Lenin / USSR / nationalists / Kravchuk / Gorbachev (deliberately not to remember Yeltsin and how he was "punished" by the center) answering to the eternal question
Who is to blame (anyone but us)
What to do (nothing, they will crawl by themselves, the Poles have been crawling for a millennium)
The author does not know about soft power. And in Russia they have never been able to do this, although it is not difficult and not expensive.
It's easier to always blame someone and come up with a legend.
Well, there is no Ukraine and Ukrainians. All-problem solved. You can rest on your laurels. Everything will resolve itself.
What riddle are we talking about? If the author uses propaganda cliches instead of analysis and does not provide anything new? Is this the solution to the problem?
And I repeat, the RF has the biggest claims to Ukraine.
Then by territory (source of hostility at the moment)
That by culture
Then by preference (EU / US, not RF)
And the logic of "Ukraine / Ukrainians" does not exist and does not exist - not a solution to the problem, but its aggravation.
By the way, the USSR fought against chauvinism, quite successfully, but with excesses.
PS. Mazepa spoke Russian. And now the author says that all the Russians .. And then they worked it out, since a good Ukrainian means ours, Russian, and a bad one is necessarily Ukrainian.

[Kushka]

The author, of course, betrayed everything, but this time
completely by. This can be written about half
countries and peoples of Europe. In the place of the same France
states were-passed.

[Arnaut]

All this was invented by Churchill in the eighteenth year (c)
Or the masons of the Auto-Hungarian General Staff.
But seriously, the Ukrainians invented / created the GDP in 2013-2014. Immediately by the fact that he supported the idiot and convict Yanukovych, and then by the Crimea and Donbass. Now the GDP is creating Belarusians.
What for? I do not know.
The next will be Russians in the sense of non-Russians.

You can minus

[sevryuk]

"Ukrainians" were invented by the Poles at the end of the 18th century, the Austrians implemented this idea in the Galician Rusyns at the end of the 19th century, the Bolsheviks - in the Little Russians in the 20s and 70s. But now the Americans, Poles, Lithuanians, Germans and other collective West are already implementing it for Russians.
("Oh great" ...) Putin, unfortunately, neither in 2013-2014, nor now could and cannot resist.

[Arnaut]

Until 2013-2014, there was a high probability that Ukraine would be at least a friendly-neutral Russia, and at most a union Russia. And after 2014, it was openly hostile for many decades. Ukraine can now be rolled into the Stone Age, it can be occupied, but a friendly and allied one will no longer work.
How many troops did Russia have in the Ukrainian direction in 2013? How many with Yushchenko? And how much now?
What are the costs of Crimea? What about Donbass? And these costs will ALWAYS be now. Plus life-giving sanctions. Russia has nowhere to spend this money? Maybe you should have invested them in "women still give birth"? In the new Korolevs and Tsiolkovskys? Technological breakthroughs?

[Procopius Nesterov]

Muscovites for knives and who does not jump that Muscovite they rode long before 14.

[Victorio]

ukrainism took root, and now it is in favor with the authorities and the new elite of today's ukraine. it is useless to argue with them, tested in the Baltic states and other offended / deprived / oppressed

[Operator]

Quote: paul3390

What's the difference who you are according to your passport

You contradict yourself - why write down supposedly insignificant data in your passport?

[sergey25]

maybe that's enough pipis are measured

[1536]

After yesterday's flights of American military aircraft over Kiev, I began to suspect that Indians lived there, who had been evicted to the reservation in the XNUMXth century.
And even if "we are Scythians, even if we are Asians with slanting and greedy eyes," but our combat aircraft fly over us. I hope they will fly. And there is no time to wonder what nationality I belong to, because I have to work. But of course, I know that I am Russian and regret that in 1991 we so thoughtlessly and easily abandoned huge territories inhabited by the same Russian people, and gave them to the foe to plunder. How would they live now if they were all together.

[Felix m]

How I agree! My God, we really would live well. But alas, nothing can be changed.

[Niel-le-Calais]

Quote: 1536

After yesterday's flights of American military aviation over Kiev, I generally began to suspect that Indians live there, who were evicted on the reservation in the XNUMXth century

Well, the Americans have been flying during exercises over Ukraine for a long time, already 7 years have passed this opportunity. (You know the author of the opportunity)
Here something else is important. All comments under the video from the Ukrainians are full of goodwill for them. But before 2013 it was the other way around. And any visit caused a violent negative reaction from the Ukrainians themselves.

Quote: 1536

but our warplanes fly over us.

Allied aircraft with American emblems over Ukrainian territory did not appear yesterday. In addition, they were there in the Second World War, and the Strategists were escorted by the Ukrainian Air Force. And the Ospreys served the MTR.
There is also a question about allies. Today, the Allies - in the Cold War, it was impossible to imagine. In the second world please fly.
The main conclusion. The Russian Federation itself has created a situation where the main "enemy" of the enemy is an ally.
I put it in quotes because it is only fictitious (the Russian Federation is not an enemy at all, it only plays a role with China to knock out the military budget in the United States)
Well, now we have what we have. A pair of Ospreys swept over the Dnieper.
In Osprey, the CMS held a training session of the MTR of Ukraine.
The Ospreys refueled over Ukraine.
And this is only recently.
And the US Strategic Aviation conducted exercises 25 km from the Crimea from the territory of Ukraine. Lancers and B52. B1 is still missing. But they have other tasks.
What's next ... radars. rockets ... but it doesn't matter anymore.

[Victorio]

Quote: Niel-le-Calais

The main conclusion. RF itself created a situation where the main "enemy" of the enemy is an ally.

===
maybe, maybe not. American strategists would fly over the Crimea, and at the gates of the naval base there would be lads with banners / get home! /. if there is so much of everything and everyone in the strong / well-equipped / allied Belarus, who are greedy for the western carrot, then Ukraine simply fell into the arms of the west, even though Putin promised them all 30 billion instead of 15. what is done is done. and not to Ukraine now, their affairs in the Russian Federation can not be redone.

[cniza]

Thus, "Ukrainization" is an artificial phenomenon caused by the enemies of the Russian people with the aim of dismembering and destroying Russia.

And they will never calm down, they will beat at this point.

[Ryaruav]

one of the few articles where I fully support comrade Samsonov unconditionally

[krops777]

And today's Ukrainians are Russians.

Only the forelock do not know about this, everyone dreams of themselves as European.

[Pavel73]

Briefly and to the point.

[basal]

Our neighbor in the country loves to sing Ukrainian songs with a glass. He knows the language much better than the current Kiev leaders. It's funny that in her youth she had no idea that she knew a foreign language. It's just that from time immemorial they say in the villages near Voronezh, where she comes from. The Little Russian dialect is widespread in rural areas over a vast territory, where is Ukraine, Ukrainians? Yes, if you want, at least call yourself a pot, just don't put it in the oven)))))

[Felix m]

It takes time, many, 20-30 years, maybe 50. It is not for nothing to say that everything is returning to normal. It is a pity that many of us will not find it when the Russians unite. Without this, you feel like an alien in this Ukrainian madness. Although, I think in my region 30-40% think like me. Many are afraid to speak. There are doubters, another third - that is why we must fight for them.

[7,62x54]

Ukrainians, okay, but how the raguli appeared, that's a mystery. Mutation not otherwise

[Rokambol]

Quote: 7,62x54

but how did the raguli appear

Maybe they came from another planet?

[sevryuk]

Quote: Corona without virus

We are all Slavs !!! and the division into "nations" - "the machinations of enemies" !!!

The Slavs are also Poles, Czechs, etc. We are the descendants of the Eastern Slavs, then the Rus, then the Little, White and Great Russians.

[sevryuk]

Quote: Odyssey

So it was once, but now it is perfectly possible to create a completely separate from the Russians and even a hostile nation of Ukrainians.

Sir, you are confusing ideology and ethnicity. Russians can be infected with the ideology of "Ukrainianship" (alas, Smerdyakovism is our national trait), but after that they will not cease to be Russians. Just like the Germans could be Nazis, communists, liberals, sectarians, etc.

[Sergey Sfiedu]

Stupid article. You can repeat as much as you like that there are no Ukraine and Ukrainians. But they are. And they won't go anywhere. There is no need to deceive yourself. Otherwise, we ourselves will become like Bandera.

[Sergey Averchenkov]

In the ass Ukraine! And not because she is bad, but because I am tired of her. Already sick of her.

[Force multiplier]

Not so simple. Ukraine is a multi-ethnic state. In addition to the Russians and representatives of other Germanic peoples in Ukraine, a large percentage of the population are Sarmatians and Turks. By "ethnic Ukrainians" semi-official means Khazars (they are also Cossacks) - Sarmatians. The article correctly mentioned that ideologically this template is imposed on Ukrainians:

They say that the Russians-Muscovites are an inferior people, the descendants of the Mongols and Finnish tribes ... The real descendants of the Rus-Rus are Ukrainians.

So that's it. All these disputes about where the "real" Rus is, in Moscow or Kiev, is only for the entertainment of the townsfolk and to distract attention. In fact, although it is not advertised and emphasized anywhere, but modern Ukraine officially maintains the continuity of statehood from the Khazar Kaganate The constitutional tradition of Ukraine officially begins with the Constitution of P. Orlik. And there in the preamble is the following text:

Wonder worthy and incomprehensible God in his sentences, merciful and infinitely patient, just in punishments. From time immemorial, even from the creation of this visible world, He rewards some powers and nations on the righteous scales of His providence, and subdues others for sins and lawlessness, he does not allow some - he frees others, he exalts some - he subdues others. Likewise, the militant ancient Cossack people, formerly called Khazar, the Lord at first exalted with a knightly character, spacious possessions and eternal glory. That people, with their stubborn campaigns by sea and land, not only the surrounding tribes, but also the Eastern Empire itself (Byzantium) shook with such fear that the eastern emperor, trying to live with him in peace, secured a strong marital relationship with his head - named his son the daughter of the kagan, namely the prince of the Cossacks

[KMS]

The mystery of the origin of the "Ukrainians"

Look for this "riddle" in Poland and Germany and Galicia ..!
And in Russia and Ukraine, in general, there are no mysteries .. Everything was mixed up in the "Oblonskys' house"!
But we have identified the devils over the years and are working in this direction.

[Vladimir1155]

Ukrainians do not exist, they are just Russians, but schizophrenic vain ideas about their allegedly Ukrainianness have been hammered into their heads,

[iouris]

Come on, stop pondering historical myths or myths developed by the Medina. We all came from the Soviet people - children of a working family. And everything that was before 1917 is very weakly correlated with the present.
Nationality was not of decisive importance if a person left the farm environment and was included in state structures. While the social elevators were working, everything was developing. But in the 1970s, heirs appeared, the elevators began to be turned off. After 1991, the Soviet people became an object of manipulation by psychotechnicians and political strategists. As a result, we have some kind of incomprehensible population that nobody needs. We need resources at the expense of which they still feed this population.

[Alexander Barinov]

Stop lying and impose on the Russians this rabble from ex-Ukraine.

[Cruel beaver]

Explain that. what is written in the article is useless for the pan-head (I have experience) Only harsh measures - a prison term (15-25 years), deportation to the Far North and for especially stubborn - execution - will be able to somehow rectify the situation ...
And you don't need to tell me that I am cruel, that I am a maniac, etc. ...
I was born, raised and live here, so I know and understand what I'm talking about !!!!!
My will, so I would shoot on the spot only for using "mov" in a conversation! I HATE !!!!!!

[Felix m]

Today I talked with Luganchanka (I am in Nikolaev), I have not heard so much hatred for a long time, it is very similar to your opinion. The truth is in your words, but. This is human truth, breed for calombur. We need to cool down a little, we need to calm down the civil conflict. Otherwise, I think it's impossible. Look where Yatsenyuk, Turchinov and other bastards are now, they calmed down and scat, sometimes responding when they only stutter at them. And as soon as that, they start yelling a bullet in the forehead. Our steam locomotive (Ukraine) only - just stopped after a non-stop dive into the abyss. Let's wait and see what our aligarhs will sing, we are in one place for Europe, but you can take money from Russia, just remember Kolomoisky's bloopers about 100 billion. Our situation is changing ...

[Cruel beaver]

Your words to God in the ears .... But unfortunately I do not see any progress towards improving the situation, therefore I remain a pessimist.
What is the difference between a pessimist and an optimist? a pessimist is a well-informed optimist !!! Ha ha!

[Alexander Sosnitsky]

The proof of a single people is very simple: most Russian words have analogs in Ukrainian and most Ukrainian words have analogs in Russian. It's just that different territories of one whole are accentuated on different common word sets. You don't need to prove anything else. Language is the main feature of nationality. The division of peoples is a policy that is harmful to the peoples. Small nations grow weak and disappear. This is harmful to all peoples. But Ukraine has its own characteristics of merging and mixing of peoples - steppe people, starting from the southern side of the Golden Gate. The Circassians (Avars) were settled further south in order to close the Golden Gate in time, the signal was transmitted in smoke. The Cherkasy people are the Cossacks who completely inhabited the Dnieper and left bank from the Caucasus to the Carpathians, inclusive. They annexed Eurasia to Russia up to Alaska. But historically, all the Aryans who came from Hyperborea. All whites are Europeans, northerners who have forgotten their roots a little. The Anglo-Saxons are their mixture with the Jews, like the Khazars (ankhely, zaki). The Jewish tribe was really unique and everywhere created royal courts in many nations. They are the lost 10 tribes of the sons of Abraham.

[nnz226]

And why is everyone rushing to Kiev? Ah, the capital of Russia! ONE of the SEVEN capitals that Russia had in its thousand-year history !!!

[Procopius Nesterov]

1) Don't be like the Ukrainians and invent the words mutants, Ukraine-Rus, and for the first time read Russia-Rus, why is that? All from ignorance, in the annals it was written Rous, Rousi, which was transformed into Rousia, now Russia. We just perceive from the point of today's spelling. And so it is clear that Russia, Russian, Russian, and not Ukr, Ukrainian.
2) Ukrainians exist as a people and to deny it is stupid. Even a Russian peasant in tsarist Russia separated himself from them, calling himself Ukrainians. (Censorship replaced my word)
3) Ukrainians have their own mentality, they were slaves in foreign states for hundreds of years, they got their state only in the 20th century. For example, Lviv for 600 years from 1349 to 1939 was part of either Poland or Austria-Hungary. This all left the imprint of complexes and anger , knowing that they have been slaves all their lives, they transfer their complexes to the Russians, trying to call us that. But the Russians have a different mentality, we have always created a strong state.
4) To the south of Kiev, the Pechenegs, Polovtsians lived, then the Mongols, the nomads needed the steppes, they did not live in the forests of northern Russia. And now you understand, until the end of the 19th century, the Hordes, the Edisan Horde and other fragments of the Golden Horde walked there in the Black Sea region, until the Russians came under the leadership of Catherine the Great and brought elementary order there. slavery for sale. But the Ukrainians not only could not free themselves from the Polish power, their even the beginnings of freedom in the form of Zaporozhye Cossacks, did not think about anything at all, just how to rob. But which king of Turkey, Polish or Russian will pay more.
4) Kiev was destroyed by the Mongols in 1240, the population was destroyed or taken into slavery. Boplan 400 years later, in the 1640s, writes that five, six thousand people live in Kiev, and this is 400 years after the destruction of Kiev. So the claims of the Ukrainians to the history of Rus are absurd, what kind of rabble populated then is unknown: a mixture of fugitive Russians and Polish serfs mixed with a bunch of peoples.

[avia12005]

How much can you talk about it? Everyone has long known how and who created the Ukrainians. To do what???

[Living7111972]

I was especially pleased with the phrase about "an inferior people, descendants of the Mongols and Finnish tribes" - what, interestingly, did the author find inferior in these peoples?
Russia is not only Russians!

[King3214]

Anyone who voluntarily calls himself a "Ukrainian" Russophobe and Judas betraying his family.

[masyuk.mihail]

How convenient it is to write FULL nonsense when the population does not read the GREAT RUSSIAN writers. Unified State Exam to all regions. Read Gogol. Evenings on a Farm Near Dikanka. The locality near the Dnieper (clearly not the west, and clearly not the "outskirts"), and the word Ukraine is present in the locality in great numbers. (May night, for example). But the people are Little Russians (Sorochinskaya fair). And it was written 85 years BEFORE the revolution.
In fact, since the beginning of the XNUMXth century, when the people as a whole became a little bit more literate in the Ukrainian lands (and the Great Russian writers and nobles were not bothered in any way by "in" - again, read Gogol - nor "Ukraine" itself), two national movements arose ( and do not forget - in the south of the Empire, serfdom was much less terrible) - Ukrainian and Malorosian. The first advocated that the Ukrainian and Great Russian peoples are related, but different, Little Russians - that the peoples are part of a single whole, but with their own regional differences in language, traditions and art. And the communists simply supported the "Ukrainian" branch of nationalists, effectively banning the branch of unification, artificially dividing the languages, which gradually flowed into each other as they moved from west to east and from south to north (open the original dictionary of Dahl's "living Russian language" - and be surprised how many "Ukrainian" words are there.

[ali58]

To return back the territory of the former outskirts to Russia, there is no independence of Bandera and other scum, there is only the Russian people in these lands and the Russian language.

[Logan]

If Ukraine was invented by the enemies of the Russian people (Poles and Austrians), and then the idea of ​​a separate "Ukrainian nation" was actively supported by the Bolsheviks, then from this we draw a simple logical conclusion that the Bolsheviks are enemies of the Russian people.

[Vladimir Shcherbina]

The fact that the current Ukrainians (or rather, the dill) are Russian can only be asserted from the T. genetics. But this is interesting only to a narrow circle of geneticists themselves. In the modern definition of belonging to some historical community, MENTALITY plays a decisive role. Call yourself Russian even in a cube, but if there is no primordially Russian spirituality, you are nobody, even though the windows of an apartment overlooking the Kremlin. What can we say about some "Ukrainians" who betrayed their ancestors. Russian is a state of mind.

[Corsair5912]

The origin of Western Ukraine is more tragic, in the 17th century it was, together with southern Poland, a province of the Ottoman Empire, and many Turks and Crimean Tatars settled there, and the Russian population was massacred and later replaced by Turks and Poles.

[Vyacheslav01]

There is no mystery - a people invented by the Poles and Bolsheviks.

[Kettle13]

What can I add if I missed something. The Poles came to the Russian lands (outskirts) before they were driven out and the Russian language was ruined.