Military Review

Overview of the Ukrainian group of forces in Donbass: forces, means, costs

50

It is difficult to understand why exactly Ukraine needs to keep a large grouping of troops along the line of contact with the Donbass republics, regularly shell their cities and towns, and organize sabotage and reconnaissance groups. She hardly needs the return of Donbass, because these are additional problems for her, which the country already has enough. There is no reason to expect any aggressive offensive actions from the LPNR either, because the republics have too modest opportunities for this, although they are quite sufficient for solving defensive tasks.


Operational-tactical groupings of the Armed Forces of Ukraine and the headquarters of the JFO


The armed forces of the DPR and LPR are opposed, respectively, by two Ukrainian operational-tactical groups (OTG). These are OTG "East" and "North". Now military actions against the republics of Donbass are called "Operation of the Joint Forces". Earlier, when punitive measures were called "Anti-terrorist operation", OTGs "Donetsk" and "Lugansk" were present here.

I would like to note that the data on the Ukrainian contingent in the Donbas are approximate, but give a general idea of ​​the forces concentrated here and their capabilities. Information on the number of troops and the availability of weapons in them was taken for 2017. Since the sides have not taken active offensive actions since then, it can be assumed that the numbers have not changed significantly.

OTG "Vostok" has about 20 thousand "sabers". Tank the troops consist of about 300 units of armored vehicles, most of which are T-64. There are also several modern modifications. The group is equipped with 800 armored vehicles. These are mainly BMP-1, BMP-2, BTR-70, BTR-80 and BRDM-2.

Self-propelled and towed artillery, numbering about a thousand barrels, consists of 2S1 and 2S3 self-propelled howitzers, approximately a battalion of D30 towed howitzers, 2A36 Hyacinth self-propelled guns, Msta-B howitzers, and M-12 Rapier anti-tank guns. There are also about 200 multiple launch rocket systems in stock. Among the Marines, there is a platoon armed with ATGMs.


The Vostok group is equipped with air defense systems in abundance. There is everything you need - from MANPADS and ZU-23-2 to the S-300 and Buk-M1 complexes.

The OTG "Sever" has about 17 thousand servicemen. She is armed with 250 tanks. For the most part, these are also T-64s, but T-72s are also present. The rest of the armament is about the same as that of the Vostok group. True, the equipment of the MLRS is a little weaker - there are about 120 of them in stock.

In addition to the two OTGs, there is also the JFO headquarters, which is located in Kramatorsk. There is about a division of 203-mm ACS 2S7 "Pion", about three divisions of the MLRS "Smerch", approximately five launchers for ballistic missiles "Tochka-U".

Although manned aviation it has not been used in the conflict since 2014, it should also be taken into account. Of the army aviation, the Kramatorsk headquarters has about three dozen attack and transport helicopters. There are also combat aircraft of the Air Force of the Armed Forces of Ukraine Su-25, Su-24, Su-27, MiG-29 and training L-39 Albatross.

Units of the Armed Forces of Ukraine and their deployment in the territory of Donbass


Let us consider in more detail some of the units of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, which are located in the territory of Donbass, indicating where exactly they operate. Since the divisions rotate periodically, the data may not be very accurate.

The 30th and 14th mechanized brigades are stationed in the Luhansk region. The positions of the 30th OMBR are located near the town of Zolote. She has been here for about six months. It will soon have to be replaced by the 72nd OMBR, which is now undergoing "combat coordination" at the "Shirokiy Lan" training ground in the Nikolaev region. It is possible that the rotation will be delayed due to the unfavorable epidemiological situation. The 14th brigade operates in the area of ​​the village of Zhelobok.


The 25th separate airborne brigade is also deployed in the Luhansk region.

They are also assisted by soldiers of the Special Operations Forces (MTR), carrying out sabotage and reconnaissance actions.

I will name a couple more units of the Ukrainian security forces operating on the territory of the DPR, in particular, in the area of ​​the Azov Sea coast. This is the 36th separate marine brigade and the notorious Azov regiment (an extremist organization banned in the Russian Federation). By the way, these units, to put it mildly, do not get along very well with each other.


Local residents often inform the LPNR military intelligence services about the deployment of the Armed Forces of Ukraine units in the Donbas, many of whom consider the Ukrainian troops to be occupational.

The grouping of Ukrainian troops held along the line of contact requires huge expenditures from the state budget. Since 2014, at least $ 10 billion has been spent - according to the most conservative estimates, excluding related costs, which are also quite a few. The continued retention of the Armed Forces of Ukraine and the NSU, which are impressive in terms of their numbers, means that some Ukrainian forces continue to make money on this, as well as that an external directive is being worked out.
Author:
Photos used:
Facebook / 56th OMBR, 72nd OMBR, 36th Marine Brigade
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  1. Incompetent
    Incompetent 20 September 2020 07: 28
    +2
    They hold large forces in order to carry out continuous pressure and crush the republics when the opportunity arises, especially since they actually rejected the main conditions of the Minsk agreements. In my opinion it was obvious from the beginning!
    The question is, what can the republics oppose in response without involving regular units of the RF Armed Forces?
    1. The comment was deleted.
      1. Incompetent
        Incompetent 20 September 2020 11: 23
        -16 qualifying.
        Yes, the point is not how many subdivisions there are and which ones, but the fact that the grouping is strengthening from year to year and this is not hidden !!! And what can the republics oppose in response? After all, if Russia enters the battle, NATO will respond and there will be a world war! And we must do so that the West does not interfere, only helps and Russia does not interfere, but only helps. And then someone is stronger ... And there is clearly an advantage in resources, technology, people on the Ukrainian side
        1. Vadim237
          Vadim237 20 September 2020 15: 54
          11
          "After all, if Russia enters the battle, NATO will respond and there will be a world war!" - Unless only in a parallel universe.
        2. roveris
          roveris 20 September 2020 18: 40
          +6
          What a fright, Ukraine is not a NATO member
          1. Incompetent
            Incompetent 20 September 2020 19: 01
            -2
            May they not stick to their rules! The West has already broken dozens of promises they have no trust! Moreover, if NATO does not join for Ukraine, why did not Putin help Yanyk in 14, as he promises to help Lukashenka now? Apparently he was not afraid of the Nazis whom the golden eagles themselves were crushing and they reached the stele on the Maidan until the stop order was followed, and he was afraid of intervention from the West .. What prevented the OMON from the FSB from launching and catching the reptiles, because the deaths and damage from the breakdown of relations between our countries are much more than hypothetical the death of riot police in battles with the Nazis. And the fact that there would be grief Putin knew right away otherwise he would not have taken the Crimea!
            1. perm23
              perm23 21 September 2020 10: 18
              -1
              who to catch and crush if there was a huge number of people against who ki now. and then there were pro-Russian in Crimea, but not in Ukraine. so why was there someone to send. ...
        3. Megatron
          Megatron 20 September 2020 21: 17
          +2
          Of course, I understand that it's the weekend, but you also need to eat!
          1. Incompetent
            Incompetent 20 September 2020 23: 17
            0
            Are you justifying Putin's inaction in Ukraine? What kind of geopolitical player is Russia who, at his side, allowed the complete transformation of a relatively friendly state into a Nazi hotbed and aggressive anti-Russia in the presence of a pro-Russian president who tried to sit on two chairs, like Lukashenka today? Of course, I understand that you can be a snacker, but if you do this too often, the brain will swim with fat so that you can not see the obvious things
            1. Piramidon
              Piramidon 22 September 2020 18: 36
              -1
              Quote: Incompetent
              What is Russia for a geopolitical player who, at his side, allowed the complete transformation of a relatively friendly state into a Nazi hotbed?

              As always, you have only Russia to blame. Where have you been?
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. hrych
      hrych 20 September 2020 08: 11
      24
      The postulate that Kiev does not need Donbass is flawed. Donbass is a storehouse of mineral resources. Without it, Ukraine is simply a poor, hopeless country. If we take analogies, then either the country is rich in resources (Kuwait, the United Arab Emirates, CA), or in the absence of them tries to compensate for the technological level (Japan, South Korea, Germany), or has transit advantages (Egypt with Suez, Panama with a canal, Singapore with the Strait of Malacca), etc. Ukraine during the collapse of the Union ... EVERYTHING was given. First of all, we flipped through the technological level, ushating a powerful aviation cluster, shipbuilding, the rocket and space industry, mechanical engineering, etc. They are losing gas transit before our eyes. And not only because of blackmail and extortion from the owner of the gas, but also because of the neglect of the GTS. The Russian Federation understood even earlier that the Soviet networks, in which no hryvnia was invested, were ending their resource. So the resources have gone through, they have lost the rich Crimean shelf and Donbass. And even the occupied part will never work fully, and so on. Donbass was needed by the Biden family with a shale theme. And they did not get off the topic. We need destabilization at the borders of the Russian Federation. Bloody disunity of a single people is needed. And you need to intimidate other regions of Ukraine so that they do not try to return to Russia. Donbass is the end of Ukrainian statehood in any case. Everyone understands that it is impossible to win and the Russian Federation will not allow, but the end of the occupation will instantly lead to the collapse of the country.
      1. The leader of the Redskins
        The leader of the Redskins 20 September 2020 09: 03
        -1
        I completely agree! The return of the east of Ukraine and Crimea is the main political line of this conflict! So the author initially shows non-professional preparation for writing an article.
        Well, and the quantitative composition of personnel, equipment and weapons, too, can be called approximate... He is none. Just a listing.
      2. Avior
        Avior 20 September 2020 09: 22
        +8
        Donbass coal reserves are depleted - they have been exploited for centuries.
        Most of the mines are unprofitable for industrial production.
        There are no other significant reserves. With shale gas - there it is written with a pitchfork, no one has ever extracted it there.
        Due to the current circumstances, the largest industrial zone in Ukraine has developed in Donbass. This is what has value. But again, factories cannot work endlessly without investment, and no one will invest them while the status is uncertain.
        Therefore, the value of factories is lost every year.
        If everything goes on like this, sooner or later the factories will stop, the people will be torn apart.
        There and now the level of income of the population has fallen dramatically. Sorry for people.
        1. hrych
          hrych 20 September 2020 10: 28
          15
          Firstly, the subsoil pulls the industry, there are a bunch of thermal power plants, processing plants and a powerful production of coke. There is coke, and, accordingly, metallurgy has gone. There is cast iron and steel, the production of metal products has begun, i.e. mainly enterprises producing pipes and metal structures. But, in the Donbass there are valuable non-ferrous metals, namely mercury, lead, zinc. The non-ferrous metallurgy factories went. A mercury plant, 6 zinc and 9 lead plants, etc. The extraction of minerals also launched the chemical industry - the production of soda, nitric acid, nitrogen fertilizers, chemical reagents, pharmaceuticals, polymeric materials, etc. immediately emerges. Machine building immediately comes out of all this. Namely, mining machine building, beneficiation machine building, coke-chemical machine building, chemical machine building, energy and electrical engineering machine building, etc. There is also instrument making. Wonderful land, agriculture, and agricultural machinery and food industry emerges from it, there is a seashore, there is shipbuilding. Glass, faience, building materials. All this is due to the richest mineral resources, where coal only dominates. The third part of coal is the most valuable anthracite. If the Ukrainians tried to ruin everything and steal, it does not mean that the bowels are exhausted. They are inexhaustible there. The so-called "unprofitable mines" under the USSR were located next to thick layers as a reserve in case of war. This is a separate topic. In general, coal reserves last at least 200 years. And if anyone bears the heresy about the depletion of reserves, then those who destroyed aviation, space, shipbuilding, engine, gas transportation and, in short, everything that is possible in Ukraine. Moreover, coal contains rare earth metals, scandium, gold, the first uranium was obtained from coal and using it as fuel is simply a crime. All valuable elements must be pulled out of it, and then burned, etc. This is the future. Therefore, the Donbass is valuable with its subsoil, and the subsoil has given birth to a powerful industry, megacities and thinking not of Seluk-Raguli, but a craft-industrial-engineering mindset. And give the Selyuk a plutonium charge, they will chop corn for them, grind them into hominy.
          1. Stas Sv
            Stas Sv 20 September 2020 22: 05
            +2
            I absolutely agree with you!
            But does everyone else know about it, including journalists? winked
      3. venik
        venik 20 September 2020 14: 09
        +5
        Quote: hrych
        The postulate that Kiev does not need Donbass is flawed. Donbass is a storehouse of mineral resources. Without it, Ukraine is simply a poor, hopeless country.

        ========
        And "with Donbass" - it will immediately become RICH and PERSPECTIVE ??? belay
        Don't talk nonsense! The main wealth of the Donbass subsoil is coal! But there is enough of it in the "controlled" territory! And yet there are coal mines close massively! The reason is that they are low-cost or even not cost-effective (coal layers are thin (sometimes half a meter) and lie very deep at a depth of 1,5 - 2 km !!!). It is more profitable to import than to mine!
        With metallurgy - the same story: Due to the overproduction of steel in the world, prices have decreased and most Ukrainian metallurgical plants cannot withstand competitive prices (equipment and technologies are antediluvian), and domestic consumption of steel is scanty! Here and "lie on the side"! And the Donbass factories will be added - generally a "pipe"!
        And third: the restoration of the destroyed infrastructure of Donbass will require from $ 10 to $ 30 billion (according to various estimates). Where to get them? The scanty Ukrainian budget is already "bursting at all the seams"!
        So it turns out: Donbass for Ukraine is like "a suitcase without a handle": And you can't throw it (the Nazis will get scared!) And it's impossible to drag!
        PS You can throw slippers!
        1. hrych
          hrych 20 September 2020 15: 47
          10
          I gave a detailed answer to my colleague above. There is no point in repeating. The world is not static. Today there is an overproduction of steel, tomorrow China has left the market ... into the abyss. And steel will be needed immeasurably. Investing in the destroyed infrastructure of the unfortunate 10 billion is a trifle; it is not down the drain, but to the richest and most industrial area. The Crimean bridge is worth a third of this amount and nothing. Isn't Crimea worth it? And let's say Donbass softer, no less steep than Crimea. There are 2 million citizens in Crimea, and 4 million in LDPR. For our country, which has ... immeasurable land, the main need is for people, one nation and mentality with us. Ukraine will ruin everything that is possible, but the West was very interested in the Donbass for plunder and not only became interested, but has already begun to build logistics. Biden's son shone there. Therefore, even if Ukraine (its top) would take it into their heads to ignore Donbass, the TNCs that govern Ukraine will not allow it.
          1. venik
            venik 20 September 2020 17: 24
            -3
            Quote: hrych
            The world is not static. Today there is an overproduction of steel, tomorrow China has left the market ... into the abyss.

            =======
            Not static! Right! You just need to be able to correctly identify the trends and directions of development! Then TRUE predictions will turn out, and otherwise - nothing more than "non-national fantasy" (in the style of "went China ... into the abyss")
            --------
            Quote: hrych
            Investing in the destroyed infrastructure of the unfortunate 10 billion trifle

            ========
            Tell it Ukrainian government!!! They are begging for a billion from the IMF and for the sake of these few miserable billions they have already begun to sell their country (wholesale and retail)!
            --------
            Quote: hrych
            it's not down the drain, but into the richest and most industrial area.

            ========
            Have you ever been to Donbass? Looks like no! This region has been actively robbed for 30 years without investing a dime! Is it only a couple of years under Yanukovych that at least something was done a little!
            ---------
            Quote: hrych
            The Crimean bridge is worth a third of this amount and nothing.

            =======
            My friend, and you, in general, are aware that the Crimean bridge, actually built Russia! Russia, not Ukraine! Do you actually SEE the difference between these two countries?
            1. hrych
              hrych 20 September 2020 19: 34
              +6
              If Trump wins in the United States, then China will be economically destroyed. The collapse of the USSR was considered a fantasy. And where is he? China is less stable than the Union. Weaker in the military sphere and economically. Don't be confused by the economic rating of the PRC. He is critically involved in the financial and credit casinos of the West. Does not have self-sufficiency in advanced weapons, does not have self-sufficiency in energy resources, does not have self-sufficiency in food. It has weak strategic nuclear forces. But the USSR had it all.
              Quote: venik
              built by Russia!

              I meant that the 10 billion you declared are required to restore the industrial potential of Donbass. And it doesn't matter who will do it. If Russia does it, it will. And Kiev, of course, brought it to such a state. wassat Noooo, believe me, if it were not for the uprising of the Donetsk people following the fall of Yanukovych, the Donbass would instantly have been raided by Western companies. A certain renaissance could have been observed. But the EU does not have such a rich deposit at all. And not coal. It is only the dominant fossil. They need rare earth and strategic metals like mercury, zinc and lead. They need chemical production that is not constrained by European environmental standards. They may not need the steel industry, their enterprises are competitors, but they would be happy to pump out anthracite. Well, the shale topic is no secret to anyone. Biden & Co. Hydraulic fracturing and forward.
      4. Krasnoyarsk
        Krasnoyarsk 20 September 2020 21: 47
        +2
        Quote: hrych
        The postulate that Kiev does not need Donbass is flawed. Donbass

        Read carefully. Usually this postulate is used in a political sense. Not economically. And yes, in a political sense (elections) it is not needed by the representatives of the current "elite" striving for power. And this "elite" will give up everything in order to get hold of power. Take Donbass and Crimea to participate in the elections in Ukraine, and the current elite will fly by in the elections. And they understand this very well. Therefore, they are pursuing a policy in relation to Donbass and Crimea, in which neither one nor the other will return to Ukraine.
        And economically, you are absolutely right.
        1. 72jora72
          72jora72 21 September 2020 14: 22
          0
          Take Donbass and Crimea to participate in the elections in Ukraine, and the current elite will fly by in the elections. And they understand this very well.
          It is a myth.
    4. halpat
      halpat 20 September 2020 08: 26
      +1
      10 billion dollars !!
      2-3 of them, at least, have opened their parasites and continue to rat.
      what kind of world is it? Well this will be cooler than the Klondike.

      and the list of troops looks impressive, but what is actually suitable there is another matter.
  2. Egoza
    Egoza 20 September 2020 07: 33
    +3
    So they will spend money on them. 1. The United States ordered, 2. If this mass is removed from there, then how to beg for money for the war? 3. And there are a lot of contractors, try to clean it up and all this mass will go to the center. And then, hang on to the government. Encouraged by the cries of "zrada", all the "demobilized", but by no means gave up all their weapons, will come and will demand all the benefits that they were promised, and, elementary, work. And her is not present. 4. "Their" people have not yet fully received their gesheft. So they will not be removed voluntarily.
  3. The comment was deleted.
  4. Asad
    Asad 20 September 2020 08: 11
    +1
    Why are there many troops? Probably they are afraid that they can return the territories of the Lugansk and Donetsk regions. Yes, and in front of the owners it is necessary to portray the activity!
  5. Niel-le-Calais
    Niel-le-Calais 20 September 2020 08: 30
    -1
    data 2017
    the presence of propaganda cliches in the article
    this is Opinion.
    Local residents often inform the LPNR military intelligence services about the deployment of the Armed Forces of Ukraine units in the Donbas, many of whom consider the Ukrainian troops to be occupational.

    it is generally a masterpiece of gray zone propaganda. where is worse than in "occupation"
  6. Mountain shooter
    Mountain shooter 20 September 2020 08: 39
    +6
    GDP said clearly - we will not give the republics to crush by military force ... And the APU does not have the strength to attack. "Shchirim" has to wait for Russia to fall apart, and they will take everything "for nothing" ... Well, ... he is getting rich with a dummy!
    1. 72jora72
      72jora72 21 September 2020 14: 42
      0
      GDP said clearly - we will not allow the republics to be crushed by military force ...
      The darkest one has said a lot in twenty years, here are a couple of promises:
      - "I want to draw your attention - I am against increasing the retirement age. And while I am president, such a decision will not be made" ...
      - "I think that we need to set a task - in the next 10-15 years to create up to 25 million modern, high-quality jobs (this is not an easy task, but, in my opinion, a completely solvable task for Russia), naturally, both through modernization operating industries "...
      - "growth of wages as a whole in the economy by 2020 by 3,3 times compared to 2007" ...
      - "housing of an average Russian family - about 100 sq. m. by 2020" ...
      - "Affordable housing also means understandable and fair prices for utilities. We should not put up with people getting into their pockets." and "... containment of tariffs by natural monopolies should also contain the growth of tariffs for housing and communal services" ...
      - "I do not intend to change the Constitution under any circumstances" ...
  7. Livonetc
    Livonetc 20 September 2020 08: 46
    +4
    "it is difficult to understand why exactly Ukraine needs to keep a large grouping of troops along the line of contact with the republics of Donbass"
    Not difficult.
    To keep the captured part of Donbass.
    They expect that the republics will not accept this.
    1. Avior
      Avior 20 September 2020 09: 26
      0
      The situation has changed a lot since 2014.
      Then there was euphoria, but now it's gone.
      The level of salaries in the republics is much lower than in the Ukrainian part of Donbass; the number of supporters of becoming a DPR has sharply decreased. Unfortunately, real experience has become more of an antiadvertising
      1. ccsr
        ccsr 20 September 2020 10: 28
        +4
        Quote: Avior
        The situation has changed a lot since 2014.

        Of course, the situation has changed - now no one in Donbass dreams of returning to Ukraine after such casualties. They just hate Ukraine and Ukrainians, and this is obvious.
        Quote: Avior
        supporters of becoming the DPR sharply diminished.

        This is a controversial statement, at least because, according to some sources, already a third of the DNR residents have become Russian citizens. They now have a different vector of development, and it is aimed at Russia.
        Quote: Avior
        Unfortunately, real experience has become more of an antiadvertising

        On the contrary, the longer this situation, the less chances of returning the DPR to Ukraine, especially since the debts of the Kiev authorities are growing, and there is no sign of improvement in life. Do you think the people in the DPR do not understand the situation, or the example of Transnistria is not relevant for them?
        I think that a few more years of such confrontation, and the Ukrainian budget simply will not be able to withstand such military expenditures, which means that the situation plays in favor of the inhabitants of the DPR, especially since Russia will never allow Kiev to seize these republics by military means. Kiev's only hope is to try to split the population of these republics and try to impose pro-Ukrainian leaders, but I don't think they will succeed, because the people see what Ukrainian nationalists are doing and are unlikely to want to see them at home.
        So your "hopes" are clearly invented by you - the situation is completely different, but you do not want to admit it.
        1. Avior
          Avior 22 September 2020 17: 46
          -2
          Sorry, you just don't know that the situation in Ukraine has changed noticeably long ago. The average salary in the same Donetsk region has grown to 35000 rubles, and it is constantly growing, for the republics an unrealistically high figure, 10 thousand are happy there, people really live in poverty, they cannot be so endlessly.
          And they get passports, so this is understandable, the first step towards leaving for Russia.
          1. ccsr
            ccsr 22 September 2020 18: 52
            -4
            Quote: Avior
            Sorry, you just don't know that the situation in Ukraine has changed noticeably long ago.

            Tell this to someone else - I communicate with those who live in Kiev and I know perfectly well what the situation is like, there is no hot water in the summer, what payments they get, how much gasoline costs, etc.
            Quote: Avior
            The average salary in the same Donetsk region increased to 35000 rubles,

            In which Donetsk region and why did you decide what they get there in rubles? By the way, in 2019, the average salary according to Ukrainian sources in the territories controlled by Kiev was - Donetsk region. 12300 gr. or RUB 29720 I will not compare prices for utilities and so on, but try to explain why the inhabitants of the DPR are not eager for such happiness to Ukraine, but prefer independence?
            Quote: Avior
            And they get passports, so this is understandable, the first step towards leaving for Russia.

            No, most likely they want the future of their children to be connected with Russia, and social security was according to Russian standards.
            1. Avior
              Avior 22 September 2020 19: 05
              -2
              In rubles, for comparison.
              13000 hryvnia, I just took the last official one. And the salary is growing, which is important.
              https://index.minfin.com.ua/labour/salary/average/doneckaya/
              Those who could from the republics left long ago.
              It is not so easy to leave housing, someone is kept by the elderly, it is generally difficult for someone to change a place of residence, a person tends to believe that the best will be.
              And without living in Russia, a Russian passport gives nothing.
              1. ccsr
                ccsr 23 September 2020 11: 48
                -2
                Quote: Avior
                In rubles, for comparison.

                You have not answered the main question - why the residents of the DPR do not want to return to Ukraine. Can you explain it intelligibly?
                Quote: Avior
                And without living in Russia, a Russian passport gives nothing.

                It gives, and a lot, in terms of educating children and receiving a pension, as well as not having to cross the border on time. And it is much easier to get a job in Russia with such a passport, but those with Ukrainian passports were the first to leave work as soon as the coronavirus began. I state unequivocally that the overwhelming majority of Russian entrepreneurs will not accept Ukrainians without Russian citizenship for good responsible work - this is a fact.
                1. Avior
                  Avior 23 September 2020 11: 55
                  0
                  What I wrote to you, a passport gives advantages in Russia
                  1. ccsr
                    ccsr 23 September 2020 18: 50
                    -2
                    Quote: Avior
                    What I wrote to you, a passport gives advantages in Russia

                    Those. do you confirm that people live better in Russia than in Ukraine with their average salary? So I wrote to you about this, despite the fact that you tried to prove the opposite by juggling the average salary in Ukraine. By the way, the average salary in Russia is higher than in Ukraine:
                    In the second quarter of 2020, the average salary in Russia increased and amounted to 50 rubles compared to 784 rubles.
                    1. Avior
                      Avior 23 September 2020 22: 54
                      0
                      In Russia, there is a wide spread in the level of average wages, several times.
                      And the average is the same as the temperature in the hospital.
                      It was about comparing salaries in the DPR and in Ukraine.
                      You attribute to me what I did not write.
                      I will not bother you, practice jerking and further. Good luck.
                      hi
                      1. ccsr
                        ccsr 24 September 2020 10: 57
                        -4
                        Quote: Avior
                        And the average is the same as the temperature in the hospital.
                        It was about comparing salaries in the DPR and in Ukraine.

                        Why did you use the "hospital temperature" to compare average salaries in the DPR and Ukraine? There is a thimble reception, as soon as you point out the average salary in Russia and you famously changed your shoes in the air.
      2. boris epstein
        boris epstein 22 September 2020 17: 24
        0
        The salaries are lower, it is a fact. But the tariffs for housing and communal services are lower, and for some items - gas, heating, electricity, water - at times.
        1. Avior
          Avior 22 September 2020 17: 41
          -2
          Salaries are several times lower in the republics. In fact, salaries in Ukraine have approached the average for most regions in Russia.
          In the Donetsk region near Ukraine, the minimum wage is 13500 rubles - for the republics this is a very high salary.
          The average for the Donetsk region - 35 rubles - is an unrealistically high figure for the republics.

          As for the communal apartment, gas in Ukraine is more expensive than in Russia.
          Electricity is the same, if not cheaper.
          Only recently have all this been discussed.
  8. yfast
    yfast 20 September 2020 09: 53
    -2
    Quote: Avior
    The level of salaries in the republics is much lower than in the Ukrainian part of Donbass; the number of supporters of becoming a DPR has sharply decreased. Unfortunately, real experience has become more of an antiadvertising

    Salaries are low, because it is difficult to invest in production, which tomorrow someone will bomb (strangers) or take away (theirs now or others later).
    1. Avior
      Avior 22 September 2020 17: 47
      -1
      I agree with you, so there is no need to wait for an increase in wages, factories will wither, nothing can be done about it.
  9. APASUS
    APASUS 20 September 2020 10: 27
    +5
    It is difficult to understand why exactly Ukraine needs to keep a large grouping of troops along the line of contact with the republics of Donbass

    It's not so difficult for me:
    1 Dispose of the most "patriotic"
    2 They keep the country in a fist, explaining everything by the war
    3 Any mistakes you make can be easily attributed to Muscovites
    4 And where to loved ones without stealing funds! Huge funds are stolen under this topic, from cutting during purchases and ending with direct cutting in the troops
    5 They brainwash the entire population, teach a new generation of patriotism, based on new heroes.
    I think a dozen more goals can be written
  10. TermNachTer
    TermNachTer 20 September 2020 15: 43
    +1
    It's just business. Everything is on sale. From dugouts and minefield maps to weapons.
  11. Petrol cutter
    Petrol cutter 20 September 2020 17: 28
    +5
    “It is difficult to understand why Ukraine needs to keep a large grouping of troops along the line of contact with the republics of Donbass, regularly shell their cities and towns, organize sabotage and reconnaissance groups. there is enough country without that. "
    Duc, everyone is hard to understand.
    But as an ex-UA citizen, I personally understand the following:
    No matter how the country's leadership swaggers. The country is full.
    This one. came, not yesterday. And not six years ago. To her stubbornly and purposefully walked. And finally they came! Get a village tractor!
    Now, we need to explain to people why such a. happens.
    Bo will begin questions from the population! ...
    And then the explanation is ready !!! ... Boyoviks fired at our beggars near the village of Gadyukino. Russia is attacking us! Yok makaryok! ..
    Check out the news on their channels. I looked for interest once in six years ... I almost vomited. hi
    1. Kuzmitsky
      20 September 2020 19: 34
      +4
      That's the point! Donbass has been living without Ukraine for six years. Good or bad, but on its own.

      Of course, no one will let Ukraine come here, but imagine that by some miracle Donetsk and Lugansk suddenly became Ukraine.

      This will have to transfer everything to the hryvnia, establish mobile and wired communications, re-create its own banking system, establish payments to public sector employees and pensioners, reorient local businesses to Ukrainian suppliers and consumers, return to Ukrainian authorities, etc.

      Yes, from such efforts, Ukraine will simply grunt.

      So they pretend to be at war. In order to earn money in the war for interested persons, and powder the brains of the population. And people will have fewer questions. "Why do we live so badly? So we are at war with the Ahresor!"
  12. Tarasios
    Tarasios 21 September 2020 12: 50
    0
    Of course. If the Armed Forces of Ukraine "restrained" the DPR by forces, say, of a company, how can the irresistible power of "Russian aggression" be described under such conditions? And how to build yourself a house or two on the basis of the expenses of this very company? There are 110 generals in the Armed Forces of Ukraine, how can we feed them all on the official salary? And then there is the "supreme commander-in-chief" ...;)
  13. iouris
    iouris 21 September 2020 17: 10
    0
    It is not necessary to survey it, but to smash it. This time to the end. After that it will be interesting to read the press release. The United States would have multiplied such a state by zero long ago. Only after that positive changes in Russia are possible.
  14. Egor-dis
    Egor-dis 21 September 2020 17: 34
    0
    Well, where did the "Print version" link go?
  15. Alexey Rogomanov
    Alexey Rogomanov 22 September 2020 02: 50
    0
    They say that I. Kolomoisky built cartridge factories in Ukraine. Wait for the world!
  16. Dilettante grandfather
    Dilettante grandfather 25 September 2020 18: 03
    0
    The grouping is impressive. For a competent military leader with such forces, it would not have been difficult to break through the defense and build on his success. But, I think, there are no competent military leaders there. Or there is a persistent desire to pretend, but not actually act.