Military Review

Anti-Hitler coalition: the first step towards

114

Churchill came up with it all



In reality, more precisely, legally, the anti-Hitler coalition was formed only on January 1, 1942. However, the three great powers began interacting as true allies much earlier.

And this happened even when overseas, as, indeed, in Foggy Albion, many were sure that the resistance of Soviet Russia to the Wehrmacht would not last long. Winston Churchill was undoubtedly the first to talk about the need not only to help, but also to negotiate with Soviet Russia.

In his famous speech on June 22, 1941, the British Prime Minister emphasized not only his country's readiness to fight side by side with all opponents of Nazi Germany, but also that "any person or state fighting against Nazism will receive our help."

Anti-Hitler coalition: the first step towards

I. Stalin, as you know, first gave the floor to V. Molotov, his deputy, whom he had replaced as chairman of the government just a month and a half earlier, and he himself addressed the people only on July 3. In a short speech, Molotov simply had to confine himself to stating the fact that the USSR was not fighting Hitler alone.

But already in the memorable speech of the Soviet leader, there was a certainty that the USSR would not be left alone in its struggle with Nazi Germany. On that day, the audience could not help but notice that Stalin in his speech separately noted not only “historical speech by British Prime Minister Mr. Churchill on aid to the Soviet Union ”, but also a declaration made by the US government on its readiness to provide assistance to our country.

Despite the fact that there was no question of direct US entry into the war, the overseas partner has already refused military supplies to anyone who is willing to pay for them, having adopted the well-known Lend-Lease program. Both London and Washington immediately realized the need to negotiate promptly to include the Soviet Union in this program.

And, although the leaders of the USSR, Great Britain and the United States began active correspondence between themselves only later, it did not take much time to coordinate the upcoming meetings. By that time, the American military industry, according to the testimony of the American historian Robert Jones, was just emerging from an infant state, and Lend-Lease became a powerful incentive for its development.

President Roosevelt had to make tremendous efforts to circumvent the act of neutrality, and more. We must not forget that in the 1940 elections, Roosevelt spoke out against the participation of the United States in the European war, when his rival, Republican Wendell Weekley, adhered to exactly the same position.

Republican opponents, isolationists in his own apparatus, even Catholics - who only then did not oppose the US getting involved in the European squabble. In democratic America, literally everything was contested, up to a simple sale, for dollars, mind you, weapons and military materials.

Only with business it was a little easier, although even here it was necessary to take such a measure as the appointment of members of the Republican Party as ministers. Already in 1940, Henry Stimson headed the Pentagon, and Frank Knox - the Navy, and the main thing was that they represented the business community.

They are waiting for you in the Kremlin


When the time came to help the Soviets, the president made a positive decision ahead of the curve, and he also preferred not to delay the corresponding negotiations. This is largely why, and also because of his boundless personal trust, he offered his assistant Harry Lloyd Hopkins to head the first mission to Moscow.


US President F. D. Roosevelt and his assistant H. L. Hopkins

At that time in the United States, it was believed that helping the USSR was almost to its own detriment, and besides, it would have to take away the necessary resources from Britain, which had a great job of keeping the metropolis and the main colonies from the attack of the Germans. In this regard, Roosevelt insisted that this ally, who could simply run out of financial resources, needed to lease ships and other equipment, providing it with large-scale loans.

With similar schemes and explanations on Lend-Lease, the Hopkins mission was sent to Moscow, along with two aviators, General McNarney and Lieutenant Alison, went to see Stalin. Apparently, details were required from them, since almost the main problem for the Russian ally was the superiority of the Germans in the air, which they achieved almost in the very first hours of the war.

Harry Hopkins was tasked with a broader plan: to discuss the scale of supplies and outline their routes. In addition, the observant and corrosive assistant to the US president had to make sure that red Russia was really determined to resist.

F. Roosevelt even reminded his "invaluable", in his own words, employee of the position of almost the entire American press, which did not doubt the readiness of the Soviets to make peace with Germany. It is characteristic that even more than three months later, the position of the mass media in the United States has hardly changed. The Chicago Tribun, the most popular newspaper in the Midwest, for example, wrote on October 17:

It would be ridiculous to expect a sane person ... to continue to believe Stalin, betraying the interests of democracy, to believe that he will not betray and conclude a new deal with Hitler.

Roosevelt was not completely sure that Stalin would be satisfied with a conversation with a person without official status, because Hopkins even left the post of Minister of Commerce due to health problems. Therefore, the American president had to act out of the ordinary.

Harry Hopkins was taking with him to Moscow practically the only real powers - only a telegram from Samner Wallace, at that time the acting US Secretary of State. It contained not the longest message to Stalin from the American president, where, among other things, Hopkins was given a kind of carte blanche. Roosevelt wrote:

I ask you to treat Mr. Hopkins with the same trust you would have if you spoke to me personally.

Hopkins arrived in Moscow on July 30 when things on the Russian front took a bad turn again. However, the city itself surprised the American guest, as it continued to live almost as in peacetime.


On Moscow streets in July 1941

Hopkins was received in the Kremlin without delay, and although the negotiations even had to be moved once due to the bombing to the Kirovskaya metro station, to the underground premises of the Supreme High Command Headquarters, the parties managed to convey everything they wanted to each other in just three days.

Pieces, tons, dollars


Even then, the volumes of supplies were previously agreed upon, the main types of weapons and materials needed by the Red Army were identified. The total volumes and amounts were even outlined, which were supposed to be met.

According to indirect data, there is every reason to believe that the total cost of supplies to the Soviet Union of $ 1 billion arose subsequently by no means out of the blue. What, what, but Harry Hopkins knew how to count perfectly.

In this regard, it should be noted that at about the same time, the United States was able to determine the scale of all military production in the United States. In materials from the Roosevelt Library, referring to contracts and obligations of the 1941th fiscal year, it is clearly stated that "the total amount of what had to be produced, including under the Lend-Lease, was 48 billion 700 million dollars."

From this it is easy to calculate that all American aid to the USSR under Lend-Lease only slightly exceeded 2 (two!) Percent of the military and the related expenses of the United States in 1941. Yes, subsequently, the second billion was added to the first billion, but the American defense industry did not stand still for the next four years of the war. It only picked up momentum.

Speaking in favor of the point of view that Lend-Lease has become a kind of lifeline for the Red Army and the Soviet military industry, they prefer not to recall such indicators. Neither do they remember that the need for assistance to the Soviets in the States was generally questioned.

Why? Because, you see, it took away a significant part of what was needed by England, other allies, for example China, and the American army itself. The fact that it was precisely foreign orders under Lend-Lease that in 1941 allowed the national business that had just emerged from the crisis to be widely involved in military production, in general, few people remember.

And yet, although no official confirmation of this was made, the first Moscow negotiating round was clearly a success. The most important thing was that the two sides, like real scientists, were able to agree on concepts. It became clear what and how badly the USSR needed, what and how much the USA were ready to supply to the Russians.

Possible routes for future supplies were also outlined. Almost immediately it became clear that the Northern one should become the main one: the famous Arctic convoys with the well-known abbreviation PQ, and then JW, would go to Soviet Arkhangelsk. Return caravans will be called QP and RA.

In reality, in terms of supply volumes, the Arctic route eventually yielded to two others: the Far East and Iran. In the Far East, almost half of the military cargo arrived in the USSR. Including from Alaska several thousand American "Airacobras", "Bostons" and "Mitchells" flew to our front.

For the sake of the southern (Iranian) route, Britain and the USSR promptly brought troops into ancient Iran and subsequently drove tens of thousands of "Studebakers" and other less publicized cargo from the ports of the Persian Gulf.

The fact that the help of the allies would be by no means disinterested did not embarrass the Soviet leader in the least. The prospect of helping Britain and the United States itself with the supply of raw materials, in a certain sense, pleased Soviet specialists, who were familiarized with the results of the negotiations.

Harry Hopkins made sure that no one in the Kremlin even dreamed of peace with the Nazis. Having outlined the terms and conditions of the next meetings, the American politician left for the States fully satisfied and even inspired.

Stalin was clearly satisfied. Later he would generally call Hopkins "the first American he liked". For all subsequent events, two very important circumstances became clear to Stalin.

First: supplies weapons, ammunition and food from overseas will begin very soon and you can not cling to emergency supplies at any cost. The notorious state reserve existed even then. There is no need to hurry too much with the evacuation of industrial enterprises, which, at best, will be working at full capacity by the future spring of 1942.

Second: the Americans will sooner or later be at war with Japan, whose expansion in the Pacific region directly hit the interests of business in the United States. This meant that reserves could be safely taken from the Far East, since a stab in the back from Manchuria, occupied by the Kwantung Army, was unlikely to take place.

Agree, the appearance of Siberian divisions at the front shortly before the decisive battle near Moscow, albeit somewhat legendary, only confirms this assessment of the results of the first Moscow Soviet-American negotiations.


The Soviet prime minister and the assistant to the American president did not even object to the joint photo session, which presented historians with one very humane detail. In a couple of shots, Life magazine photographer Margaret Bourke-White captured Stalin and Hopkins holding cigarettes. Heavy smokers will attest to how much that can say.
Author:
Photos used:
Life magazine, propagandahistory.ru, quo.es, bigpicture.ru
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  1. Far B
    Far B 21 September 2020 05: 45
    13
    The article is not bad, but the conclusions at the end of it (about two things that allegedly became clear to Stalin) are very strange.
    You don't have to rush to evacuate industrial enterprises
    How is it - to leave them under the bombing? Then in a couple of months nothing will have to be taken out at all, because there will be nothing to take out.
    And this meant that reserves could be safely taken from the Far East, since a stab in the back from Manchuria occupied by the Kwantung Army was unlikely to take place.
    Damn it, but General Apanasenko did not know this, and swore at Stalin (((
    In short, thinking out for Stalin in particular and the leadership of the USSR of that period as a whole is a thankless task. It was not worth it, in my opinion, to do this.
    1. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 21 September 2020 12: 27
      +3
      Quote: Dalny V
      Damn it, but General Apanasenko did not know this, and swore at Stalin (((

      General Apanasenko just rushed forward. smile
      Immediately after Pearl Harbor, he wrote to Stalin that if he was required to take active action in the near future, then he needed 20-25 rifle divisions and six more BC (to the six available). If the DVF gets it, the offensive will be successful. Moreover, judging by the calculations of the enemy's forces, it was not just the Kwantung Army that was considered as such, but with reinforcement units along the Kantokuen.
    2. Astra wild
      Astra wild 21 September 2020 13: 44
      +1
      "it is not grateful," but effective: WE KNOW STALIN'S THOUGHTS.
      Since childhood, I have had a somewhat skeptical attitude towards Stalin, but I realized long ago that Stalin was mentally superior to his successors.
      What was Stalin thinking in July 1941? We don’t know without a time machine, but I think it’s not difficult to assume that Stalin had such a thought: “The Americans are of course pigs, but their help SHOULD BE USED
      1. BAI
        BAI 21 September 2020 17: 23
        +2
        "The Americans are of course pigs, but their help is NECESSARY TO USE

        Absolutely right.
        1. Proxima
          Proxima 21 September 2020 23: 20
          +2
          Interesting statements by Hopkins about Stalin: “It seemed that talking to a remarkably balanced machine, an intelligent machine. Joseph Stalin knew what he wanted, he knew what Russia wanted, and he believed that you also knew that ... There was not a single unnecessary gesture or antics ... He never repeated himself. He spoke in the same way as his troops fired - apt and straight ... His questions were clear, short and direct. As tired as I was, I answered in the same tone. His answers were quick, unambiguous, they were pronounced as if they were thought out many years ago ... If he is always the same as I heard him, then he never says a word in vain. If he wants to soften a short answer or a sudden question, he does so with a quick, restrained smile - a smile that can be cold but friendly, strict but warm ... He seems to have no doubts. He creates confidence that Russia will withstand the attacks of the German army. He has no doubt that you also have no doubts. "
      2. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
        Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 21 September 2020 19: 38
        +2
        Quote: Astra wild
        What was Stalin thinking in July 1941? We don't know without a time machine

        of course.
        Quote: Astra wild
        but I think it's not difficult to assume that Stalin had such a thought

        oh, so you are also an expert on Stalinist thoughts?
        sadness ...
        Quote: Astra wild
        "The Americans are of course pigs, but their help is NECESSARY TO USE

        but first decided to use the help of British "pigs", right? July 12, 1941, no?
        1. Catfish
          Catfish 21 September 2020 21: 37
          +2
          ... oh, so you are also an expert on Stalinist thoughts? sadness ...


          Okay, colleague, she's just a woman. smile
          1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
            Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 22 September 2020 06: 39
            +1
            Cassandra?)))
            1. Catfish
              Catfish 22 September 2020 12: 18
              0
              Her name is Vera. ))
  2. The leader of the Redskins
    The leader of the Redskins 21 September 2020 06: 52
    +7
    All the same, Theodore and "Uncle Joe" were great politicians who, in difficult times, were able to understand the problems of the World and draw the right conclusions and decisions.
    And the American president has proved that even from a wheelchair it is possible to lead a huge country and influence the politics of the world.
    1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
      Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 21 September 2020 09: 08
      12
      Quote: Leader of the Redskins
      All the same, Theodore

      Leader, Theodore by the time he passed away 20 years)
      As for the FDR, then, perhaps, yes, he made the right conclusions and decisions for his country. With a margin for decades to come.
      1. Okolotochny
        Okolotochny 21 September 2020 13: 48
        -2
        Leader, Theodore by the time he passed away 20 years)
        And what about FDR,

        good lol
  3. Olgovich
    Olgovich 21 September 2020 07: 05
    10
    From this it is easy to calculate that all American aid to the USSR under Lend-Lease was only slightly higher than 2 (two!) Percent of US military and related expenses in 1941 year.
    Speaking in favor of the point of view that Lend-Lease has become a kind of lifeline for the Red Army and the Soviet military industry, they prefer not to recall such indicators.

    What's the difference: 2%, 20 or 0,00002%?
    This does not change the volume and the enormous value of the supplies.

    The most important thing was that the two sides, like real scientists, were able to agree on concepts. It became clear what and how badly the USSR needed, what and how much the USA were ready to supply to the Russians.

    It's great that we managed to quickly understand each other and agree.

    It's bad that it took a world war and millions of victims.
    1. cost
      cost 21 September 2020 08: 06
      +7
      In the fall of 1940, legal advisers to the US Treasury Department found in the archives a curious law dated 1892, and passed under President Benjamin Harrison. The document contained the following lines: "when, at its discretion, it is in the interests of the state, it can lease the property of the army for a period not exceeding five years, if the country does not need it."
      Less than a year later, on March 11, 1941, the world officially heard about such a concept as "Lend-Lease"
      1. Astra wild
        Astra wild 21 September 2020 14: 10
        +2
        It was difficult for Roosevelt in the summer of 1941, and who knows, perhaps he once said: "Thanks to old Ben for passing this law." Sometimes it is useful to delve into half-forgotten laws: you can shut your mouth to critics, because the Democrats, with all their desire, will not be able to accuse Harrison of collusion with Roosevelt. Only a madman would believe that 49 years ago they foresaw that Roosevelt would need
    2. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
      Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 21 September 2020 18: 57
      +3
      Quote: Olgovich
      Too bad it took a world war


      Olgych, you perfectly understand that the world war was not needed for this)
      1. Olgovich
        Olgovich 22 September 2020 06: 36
        +3
        Quote: Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
        Olgych, you perfectly understand that the world war was not needed for this)

        Each participant in the events had their own needs ...
  4. Avior
    Avior 21 September 2020 07: 44
    13
    The article contains several theses that live separately from the article itself and are not supported by anything
    The fact that the help of the allies will be by no means disinterested,

    And others, that you can not rush to evacuate and others.
    Full of Lend Lease and old cliches like the insignificance of Lend Lease, completely ignoring the already known facts.
    Lend Lease in the USSR cost the States 11 billion, at that time this is the price of 11 thousand tons of gold, almost half of the world's gold reserves at the beginning of the war, reverse Lend Lease - $ 2 million.
    Enterprises in the States were, of course, loaded with production, but all production was paid by the US government, so there can be no question of any material benefit for the States.
    It's time to put an end to old myths, in the 21st century it is already awkward to read such on a specialized website
    1. ccsr
      ccsr 21 September 2020 12: 19
      -7
      Quote: Avior
      reverse Lend Lease - $ 2 million.

      And what is this new discovery - what do you mean by that? In the USSR, there was no such program as Lend-Lease in 1941. Where did the firewood come from?
      1. Avior
        Avior 21 September 2020 16: 42
        +1
        Did I write something about 1941?
        1. ccsr
          ccsr 21 September 2020 18: 28
          -3
          Quote: Avior
          Did I write something about 1941?

          Okay, what happened later?
          1. Avior
            Avior 21 September 2020 18: 48
            +3
            On June 11, 1942, an agreement between the United States and the USSR "On principles applicable to mutual assistance in the war against aggression" was signed in Washington. The agreement determined the procedure for rendering mutual assistance during the war years. Including, according to article 2, the Soviet government assumed obligations to assist the defense of the United States of America and to provide materials, services, benefits and information to the best of its ability [2].

            According to the US President Harry Truman's Report to Congress, as of September 2, 1945, the reverse lend-lease from the USSR was $ 2. Including articles:

            Facilities and Equipment - $ 56
            Testing and Reconditioning etc. of Defense Articles - 2 dollars [155]

            https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Обратный_ленд-лиз_из_СССР_в_США
            Basically, it was about services for the maintenance of American ships and aircraft in the USSR.
            Reverse Lend Lease was from many countries.
            For example, from England to the US in the amount of $ 6,7 billion
            1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
              Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 21 September 2020 18: 59
              +1
              just in case, an illustration to the issue of reverse LL for all participating countries:
            2. ccsr
              ccsr 21 September 2020 19: 05
              -3
              Quote: Avior
              Basically, it was about services for the maintenance of American ships and aircraft in the USSR.

              Actually, Wikipedia says that reverse lend-lease is basically providing services to Americans:
              At the same time, all exports from the USSR to the USA in the period from 12.09.1941/31.12.1945/223 to 196/300/XNUMX amounted to XNUMX dollars[4].
              Thus, most of the export shipments from the Soviet Union to the United States were not directly related to reverse lend-lease. Basically, the calculation of deliveries under the reverse lend-lease from the USSR to the USA consisted of the provision of airfields for American aviation, as well as maintenance and refueling of American aircraft.

              This "reverse lend-lease" of $ 2,15 million, against the backdrop of our $ 223 million supply of raw materials, looks too insignificant to seriously mention it. And then we could not have something like a Lend-Lease - there was a war on our territory, so the term "reverse Lend-Lease" is a term more propaganda than reflecting our military assistance to the allies.
              1. Avior
                Avior 21 September 2020 19: 19
                0
                I brought this up for general information.
                Somehow it became customary for some of the discussants to talk about deliveries to the United States, and this can often be found in the press - people should understand the volumes.
                .
              2. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
                Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 22 September 2020 15: 04
                0
                Quote: ccsr
                against the background of our supplies of raw materials for 223 million dollars looks too insignificant

                this is not a "supply of raw materials", but a full-fledged export.
                1. ccsr
                  ccsr 22 September 2020 19: 03
                  -5
                  Quote: Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
                  this is not a "supply of raw materials", but a full-fledged export.

                  So I also say that the concept of "reverse lend-lease" is a propaganda cliche that does not explain anything, including how much raw materials we sold in the same way as the Americans sold us in addition to lend-lease.
  5. cost
    cost 21 September 2020 08: 22
    10
    Willys MB (Willys) - American light army off-road vehicle during the Second World War. Serial production began in 1941 at the factories of Willys-Overland Motors and Ford (under the Ford GPW brand). This car in the Red Army was used as a commander, reconnaissance, liaison, and even as a light tractor. He could easily tow a light 45 mm anti-tank gun with a gun crew.

    Here in such a transport container the Wilis were delivered to us

    1. cost
      cost 21 September 2020 08: 40
      12
      lend-lease canned food and food





      in addition, under Lend-Lease, 610 thousand were delivered to the USSR. tons of sugar
      1. cost
        cost 21 September 2020 08: 57
        14
        On the eve of the war with Finland, the production of the first concentrates began in the USSR, so the soldiers of the Red Army were not surprised by dry soups, main courses, jelly sent from America. The United States even learned how to produce dry borscht especially for Soviet citizens.
        Fish and fish products accounted for an insignificant share in the total volume of supplies. In addition to the products specified in the Soviet applications, America also received vitamin-rich juices, fruits and vegetables, and nuts. chocolate, candy, canned milk, milk powder, margarine and and egg powder
        Finally, one cannot fail to mention the supply of alcohol. American alcohol in the form of the famous "People's Commissar's hundred grams" cheered Soviet fighters throughout the war. In total, over 300 thousand liters of alcohol were delivered from the United States during the war years.
        A separate type of supplied products was the so-called. Ration D - a bar weighing about 100 g, consisting of a mixture of chocolate, sugar, oat flour and milk powder. This extremely unpleasant "product" was a kind of NZ, which was used only as a last resort. Three of these tiles had a nutritional value of 1800 kilocalories, that is, they were equal to the daily minimum diet.

        Sending food
        American products for the USSR.

        American products in the USSR.
        1. cost
          cost 21 September 2020 09: 18
          15
          Medical Lend-Lease
          To be honest, no medicines, medical equipment and instruments. delivered under Lend-Lease, our heroic physicians could not return to service 72,3% of the wounded and over 90% of the sick. The fact is that “... the Soviet chemical and pharmaceutical industry was not ready for the war. New production facilities for sulfa drugs, novocaine, ether for anesthesia, and hexenal were weak and could not quickly increase production volumes in order to meet the army's demands that had multiplied since the beginning of hostilities. Many domestic drugs were of low quality.
          In particular, the Soviet industry produced anesthesia ether with an extremely low degree of purification, as a result of which its shelf life was limited to four months. The problem of producing sufficient quantities of suture material and surgical gloves was not solved, the Soviet industry practically did not produce plaster bandages for immobilization.
          Moreover, simple surgical instruments that were widely used during the war: scissors, tweezers, syringes and needles for them were produced in far insufficient volumes.
          At the same time, the Soviet Union was preparing for war and significant stocks of medicines and instruments were made in army warehouses.
          However, the Red Army was never able to use a significant part of these reserves. A significant share of the accumulated medicines and medical property was concentrated in warehouses located in the border military districts.
          Soon after the start of the German invasion, part of the stocks of medical equipment and medicines accumulated in the west of the country were either destroyed or captured by the enemy.
          The loss and evacuation of most of the pharmaceutical industry led to the fact that by the end of 1941, production volumes dropped to 8,5% of the pre-war (and already small) level.
          There has been a sharp decline in the production of medicines and sanitary equipment and property. The industry practically did not supply the Main Military-Sanitary Directorate of the Red Army with such vital preparations as ether for anesthesia, streptocide, glucose, sulfidine, and morphine solution to help the wounded. The supplies of novocaine, rivanol, iodine, hexenal, codeine, caffeine benzoate, pyramidone, phenacetin, aspirin and a number of other medicines have completely stopped. In addition, the volume of supplies of dressings and suture material has dropped several times. The provision of the army with medicines and medical equipment during this period was carried out exclusively at the expense of supplies evacuated to the rear in the first months of the war.
          While the needs were enormous. Used bandages were washed in hospitals. Doctors had to work without ether and morphine for anesthesia, streptocide, novocaine, glucose, pyramidon, and aspirin.
          Under these conditions, the Soviet command in the fall of 1941 was forced to turn to the allies in the anti-Hitler coalition with a request for the supply of medical equipment, medicines and reagents for their production.
          The application drawn up in October 1941 by the GVSU of the RKKA included 65 items, including 900 thousand tweezers of various types, 717 thousand syringes, 3,6 million needles for syringes, 30 tons of tannin, 10 tons of pure caffeine, 15 tons of streptocide and 40 kg antibiotic gramicidin.
          Already in November 1941, Roosevelt wrote to Stalin:
          I am happy to inform you that the medical supplies on the list drawn up by the Medical Supply Commission at the Conference of the Three Powers will be made available as soon as they can be procured and shipped, with the exception of that part of them which may be provided by the British. American procurement and manufacturing conditions make it impossible to immediately purchase large quantities of certain required items, but 25% of the total quantity on the list can be provided within 30 to 60 days, and the rest of the supply within the next 8 months.





          1. Astra wild
            Astra wild 21 September 2020 18: 21
            +2
            Second from the bottom, photographs of a box of syringes. In 2000, my then neighbor had such a box. Someone from the front has kept
    2. Astra wild
      Astra wild 21 September 2020 18: 05
      0
      The father-in-law praised Vilis. The part said that the GAZ-69 was an imitation of Willis. Roman had about Willis.
      1. Astra wild
        Astra wild 21 September 2020 20: 30
        0
        Does anyone doubt that Roman Skomorokhov talked about Willis? Let them check
      2. hohol95
        hohol95 21 September 2020 23: 21
        0
        So he didn't know about GAZ-64 and GAZ-67 / 67B.
        The first "jeeps" on the territory of the USSR were transferred by the British 500 American "BANTS BRC-40".
        1. Alexey RA
          Alexey RA 22 September 2020 09: 12
          +1
          Quote: hohol95
          So he didn't know about GAZ-64 and GAZ-67 / 67B.

          So GAZ-64 is a creative rethinking of Ford's "Pygmy": TK was written off from it, and the request from GBTU was for a car modeled on the American Pigmy car.
          1. hohol95
            hohol95 22 September 2020 11: 38
            0
            Ordinary people do not need to know such subtleties.
            But an ordinary soldier could see a certain technique and use it.
            And I could form my own opinion about this technique!
            TK was written off from him, and the request from GBTU was for a car modeled on the American Pigmy car.

            GAZ-64 appeared thanks to the head of the Autotractor Directorate of the Red Army, Major General I.P. Tyagunov.
            It was he who read an article published in Automotive Industries magazine on December 15, 1940. The article was titled "Ford Builds Pygmy Trucks for the US Army."
            It was at the end of January 1941, and already on February 1, Tyagunov received a letter from Tyagunov to the NKSM (People's Commissariat for Medium Machine-Building) with a request to produce prototypes by April 15 “on the model of the American Pigmey car. It is unlikely that Tyagunov knew that Ford Pygmy was released in only two copies.
            Grachev was summoned to Moscow, who was received by the People's Commissar of Medium Machine Building VA Malyshev. Malyshev acquainted Grachev with American publications and gave instructions to make a car for a similar purpose. All that Vitaly Andreevich had at his disposal was data from Automotive Industries. According to the note, the American "Pygmy" had a 42-horsepower 4-cylinder engine, four-wheel drive, a wheelbase of 81 inches (206 cm), and tires measuring 5,5 × 16 inches with off-road tread.

            warspot.ru
            Gorky pygmy
            Yuri Pasholok 15 April '16
        2. Astra wild
          Astra wild 22 September 2020 13: 31
          +1
          Probably, I should have written that: the shameless Americans copied the GAZ-69?
          And Roman did not have a cycle of Lend-Lease technology and would have +
          1. hohol95
            hohol95 22 September 2020 16: 17
            0
            Probably, I should have written that: the shameless Americans copied the GAZ-69?

            GAZ-69 is already a post-war product.
            The semi-wheel drive Volkswagen Typ 82 (Kübelwagen) was also enough for the Germans. From 1939 to 1945, 50 435 of them were produced. But there were much more motorcycles in the German army than in the armies of the United States and Great Britain.
            But the allies decided not to suffer with motorcycles and change to "jeeps". Fortunately, all-wheel drive army vehicles were enough for both.
            But the industrial capabilities of the USSR did not allow quickly and without stress to saturate the army with motorcycles with a sidecar or four-wheel drive cars. Even armored vehicles were produced on the chassis of conventional GAZ-AAA.
            But I don’t think that only Soviet specialists read foreign technical journals!
            Everybody looked into the "neighbor's garden"!
  6. Undecim
    Undecim 21 September 2020 10: 15
    15
    The sketching genre is gaining popularity on the site. Already the section "History" can be renamed into the section "Historical outline".
    The creative duo that sculpted the article completely forgot that besides the United States, Britain also provided military assistance to the USSR. And the first steps were taken by Britain.
    On June 27, a military mission led by General Frank Mason-McFarlan and an economic mission led by Lawrence Cadbury arrived in Moscow, and on July 12 the "Agreement between the governments of the USSR and Great Britain on joint actions in the war against Germany" was signed.

    The first British convoy left Liverpool on August 12, 1941, and arrived in Murmansk on August 31, 1941, even before payment for the supplies had been settled.
    At the same time, the authors manipulate some "indirectly" obtained figures, that is, speaking simply - taken from the ceiling. How to understand the passage "the total cost of supplies to the Soviet Union is $ 1 billion." For what period? If for all time, it is $ 11 billion. If in 1941, then for lend-lease in 1941, 13 billion were allocated for everything and everyone. Then the 2 billion that appear in the article is not 15 percent, but XNUMX percent. That is, the authors are either completely out of tune with arithmetic, or they decided that they can throw at the fan without arithmetic.
    The site's reputation continues to crack under the blows of the Samsonovs, Chichkins, Podymovs and other Vyatkins.
    1. ccsr
      ccsr 21 September 2020 13: 03
      -6
      Quote: Undecim
      The site's reputation continues to crack under the blows of the Samsonovs, Chichkins, Podymovs and other Vyatkins.

      To maintain your reputation, it would be nice for you to study the memoirs of F. I. Golikov:

      At 11:30 am, the entire Soviet mission was received by Secretary of War Henry Morgenson. The reception was purely formal and gave practically nothing. In addition, political antipathies and the reluctance of the British Secretary of War to see the Red Army as his military ally were striking. Immediately after lunch, we met simultaneously with all three chiefs of the main headquarters of the British armed forces: the General Staff, General J. Dill, the Air Force, Vice Marshal of Aviation C. Portal, and the Chief of Staff of the Navy, Admiral D. Pound. We came to them with the intention of discussing our issues directly and sincerely. This important conversation from the very beginning was quite sharp, tense and, from my point of view, very characteristic. To say that the behavior of our partners throughout the conversation was underlined formal is to say very little. The situation was much worse: they felt their complete absence of any desire to meet our proposals halfway.
      .....
      Nevertheless, in July 1941, not a single request for the allocation of anti-aircraft guns and large-caliber machine guns was granted, and the British motivated their refusal by the fact that they themselves allegedly lack these types of weapons. They did not provide any planes either. On all other points of the Soviet application, they either pulled, or went forward with great creak and restrictions. In British ruling circles, the desire to evade military supplies to the Soviet Union was increasingly evident. So, when the Soviet mission decisively demanded concrete actions, Air Minister Sinclair and the Chief of Staff of the Air Force Portal openly stated that the Soviets did not count on Britain providing them with a significant number of their aircraft.
      ....
      In order to slow down the provision of aircraft to the Soviet Union, the British in all seriousness put forward such an argument. Suppose, they said, England would provide the USSR with a certain number of aircraft. In this case, it would be necessary to create a special economy to service them, and this, due to the small number of aircraft, is unprofitable for the Russians themselves. True, as a result of the persistence shown by the Soviet side, the British government at the end of July 1941 made a decision transfer to the USSR 200 Tomahawk fighter planes from among those received by the British from the United States. 140 of these aircraft were in England, 60 in the United States. We insisted that the British government transfer to the disposal of the Soviet Union 700 Tomahawk fighters that were at that time in Cairo. The British did not agree to this, citing the small number of their aviation in the Middle East

      As you can see, the bargaining was due to American aircraft, which were received by Britain under Lend-Lease, and not that they themselves allegedly supplied us from their weapons.
      Quote: Undecim
      The first British convoy left Liverpool on August 12, 1941, and arrived in Murmansk on August 31, 1941, even before payment for the supplies had been settled.

      To be precise, the deliveries began earlier:
      At the same time, the results of our first visit to England were more than modest. Only on July 20, the British Admiralty sent the Adventure minelayer to the Soviet Union, loading it with depth charges, magnetic mines, parachutes, and incendiary plates
      and some other military materials.
      1. Undecim
        Undecim 21 September 2020 13: 13
        +3
        It is rather for you, turbopatriots, an authoritative source. Use it to your health.
        1. Astra wild
          Astra wild 21 September 2020 18: 32
          0
          Viktor Nikolaevich, I respect your erudition, but please, name more reliable sources. It is desirable that one can be found. English-speaking, please do not name: I can hardly remember the English alphabet, but there are many like me
          1. Undecim
            Undecim 21 September 2020 19: 11
            +2
            English-speaking please do not name
            Then only Wikipedia.
            1. Astra wild
              Astra wild 21 September 2020 20: 32
              0
              In this case, even you recognize the Russian-speaking Vika
              1. Undecim
                Undecim 21 September 2020 21: 25
                +2
                No, I don't admit it, but you have no other choice. You yourself said that you do not speak enemy languages.
      2. Astra wild
        Astra wild 21 September 2020 20: 58
        -1
        "To study the memoirs of F. I. Golikov" actually, Golikov is also not very decent: he supplied the Central Committee and Stalin personally with not entirely reliable information when he was the head of the RU, and in his memoirs he claims that there was exhaustive information. In that case, who is to blame for the tragedy of 1941?
        Somewhere on the site I recently saw materials about this.
        R.
        S
        He wrote his memoirs after the 20th Congress of the CPSU, and naturally, in order to please the then leader Khrushchev, he must "correct" reality with regard to Stalin. Sometimes I start fantasizing: if in 1941 Khrushchev became the chairman of the Council of People's Commissars, what would have happened? I have nothing but female intuition and I think that Lisa's Day would not exist, the triple union is in question.
        I ask you not to judge me strictly, I expressed my opinion
        1. ccsr
          ccsr 22 September 2020 11: 44
          -6
          Quote: Astra wild
          "To study the memoirs of F. I. Golikov" actually, Golikov is also not very decent: he supplied the Central Committee and Stalin personally with not entirely reliable information when he was the head of the RU, and in his memoirs he claims that there was exhaustive information. In that case, who is to blame for the tragedy of 1941?

          It’s not FI Golikov for sure, but otherwise he would have been shot or demoted, but on the contrary he was elevated to the rank of ambassador and sent to negotiations with the British and US governments. This appointment alone refutes all speculation around the head of the GRU General Staff.
          Quote: Astra wild
          He wrote his memoirs after the 20th Congress of the CPSU, and naturally, in order to please the then leader Khrushchev, he must "correct" reality with regard to Stalin.

          These speculations are not true:
          In April 1964, Marshal of the Soviet Union F.I.Golikov, head of the Intelligence Directorate of the General Staff of the Red Army in 1940-1941, appealed to the Central Committee of the CPSU with a proposal to prepare for publication a book available to a wide range of readers about the activities of Soviet military intelligence on the eve and in years of the Great Patriotic War.
          .....
          However, unfortunately, in the mid-1960s. F. I. Golikov's initiative to prepare a book on the activities of Soviet military intelligence on the basis of archival materials was not supported by the leadership of the CPSU and the USSR Ministry of Defense. In the spring of 1965, the ideological department of the CPSU Central Committee agreed with the opinion of the head of the Main Political Directorate of the Soviet Army and the Navy, General of the Army A.A.Epishev, that it was inexpedient to publish any open publications on the history of Soviet military intelligence. on the grounds that data on its activities "in the acceptable for wide circles of readers are contained in the sixth volume of the" History of the Great Patriotic War "", which was reported to Marshal Golikov

          His memoirs were published after his death, so it will not be possible to attract Khrushchev here - by the way, Golikov, by the way, was not lit up anywhere criticizing Stalin at that time:
          The manuscript was not published during the life of the Marshal, but it was preserved in the family archive and now, in the year of the 100th anniversary of the formation of the Registration Department of the Field Headquarters of the RVSR, it is being published under the title “Notes of the Chief of the Intelligence Agency. July 1940 - June 1941 ".
  7. Cowbra
    Cowbra 21 September 2020 10: 23
    -5
    Yes, Lend-Lease is a very long topic. You can remember not only about us, but also about the British, how their colonies were actually squeezed out for a couple of dozen ancient destroyers ... Or this kind of triviality (the inscription - "please do not pump") ...
    And in terms of Lend-Lease volumes ... That in WWI RI soyuznechki helped, to put it mildly, bad - no one argues? Then what is THIS called ?!

    And this is called - STILL CRAZY. Therefore, a couple of months ago, the published series of praises for Lend-Lease is, at best, awesome.
    1. Avior
      Avior 21 September 2020 11: 12
      10
      Under the Lend Lease they did not supply military equipment, under the Lend Lease they gave money and the opportunity to order with this money what the USSR itself considered necessary.
      All firms that wanted to participate in Lend Lease submitted an application and provided a sample of products.
      The Soviet commission selected what was needed and in what quantity within the limits of the Lend Lease amounts.
      Therefore, Lend Lease included, first of all, bottlenecks - the fact that it was impossible for the Soviet industry at the moment to get independently - from ballistic powder to stew.
      Military equipment made up a small part of the total supply.
      But it was necessary to take into account that Lend Lease was a lifesaver for Soviet industry, the Americans were able to quickly ensure the production of what the USSR simply could not produce.
      Without armor steel, even without brake bands, there would be no tanks, without explosives and gunpowder, ammunition and so on.
      And an attempt to compare purely in terms of military equipment is a distortion of the role of Land Lease.
      Not to mention the fact that the above paper takes into account only the coinciding names of weapons - something that was not supplied to the First World War is not on the lists.
      Tanks, ships, combat electronics, radars, radio, most positions, in other words.
      1. Selevc
        Selevc 21 September 2020 12: 54
        -7
        Quote: Avior
        Under the Lend Lease they did not supply military equipment, under the Lend Lease they gave money and the opportunity to order with this money what the USSR itself considered necessary.

        You have forgotten to ascribe how much gold and platinum the USSR paid for this allegedly "given" US money ... I think that advice was paid at the most expensive rates !!!
        Everything that you wrote is called world trade, and approximately the same order existed in trade relations between the USSR and the USA and before the war - only the USSR also paid grain for machines, bought patents for gold, specialists from the USA and Europe were invited to a very fat one, I think even at that time the salary !!!

        So arguing, you can call the entire industrialization in the USSR one big Lend-Lease !!!
        But all this was not for nothing - oh, how not for nothing !!! I think that a fairly decent percentage of the modern gold reserve of the United States is the gold of Tsarist Russia and the USSR, which got to America in different righteous and unrighteous ways !!!
        1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
          Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 21 September 2020 13: 28
          +6
          Quote: Selevc
          You have forgotten to attribute how much gold and platinum the USSR paid for this allegedly "given" US money ...

          Well, just write down what wasted exclamation marks. Let's get the numbers.
          Quote: Selevc
          I think the advice was paid at the most expensive rates !!!

          This is your speculation. Here is the plane of statistics and factology.
          Or again about the cruiser "Edinburgh"?

          Quote: Selevc
          only the USSR also paid in grain for machines, patents were bought for gold, specialists from the USA and Europe were invited to a very fat salary, I think, even at that time !!!

          what does industrialization have to do with the LL issue?
        2. Avior
          Avior 21 September 2020 14: 16
          11
          Did not forget. Not a penny was paid for Lend Lease.
          This is not a trade, but a lease with write-off in case of loss.
        3. BAI
          BAI 21 September 2020 17: 31
          +7
          You have forgotten to ascribe how much gold and platinum the USSR paid for this allegedly "given" US money ... I think that advice was paid at the most expensive rates !!!

          There were 2 types of supplies: lend-lease and direct purchases for gold (remember the cruiser Edinburgh). These are different supplies, they do not need to be mixed.
          PS. Edinburgh has already been remembered.
      2. ccsr
        ccsr 21 September 2020 13: 47
        -6
        Quote: Avior
        Under the Lend Lease they did not supply military equipment, under the Lend Lease they gave money and the opportunity to order with this money what the USSR itself considered necessary.

        This is a too simplified interpretation of all military assistance to the allies of the USSR, because we bought a lot of products for our own money and through Amtorg. And the reasoning about the cost of supplied goods and weapons worth billions of dollars in 1941 is generally at the level of primitive fantasy. This is how it was in reality:
        Speaking of armaments, Acheson stressed that the issue of supplying aircraft "is in the hands of Welles," from whom we should get an answer later. Nor were they given anti-aircraft guns of the required small caliber. Instead, they suggested starting negotiations on the possibility of acquiring anti-aircraft guns of larger calibers. As a matter of fact, in those days the Americans promised only 2 thousand tons of toluene, of which half (by agreement with England) had to be obtained from the Canadians in Halifax. We also decided to sell 115 thousand tons of high-octane aviation fuel and other petroleum products. In addition, they promised to help in sending two tankers to our country. This was essentially no more than Welles had told the mission when they first met. Amtorg was allowed to purchase molybdenum, paraffin wax, electrolyte lead, steel gas tanks, pipes and some other materials. In addition, a previously requisitioned cargo of leather and wool in the amount of about a million dollars was released. The response that Acheson gave us also contained permission to purchase equipment from one of the tire plants, three cracking and stabilization plants, one plant for the production of high-octane gasoline, two gasoline absorption plants, and one installation for the production of high-grade lubricating oils. But all this was due to strict restrictions. So, until October 1, they agreed to ship materials for only $ 4 million.
        ....
        By agreeing to provide some equipment and materials, At the same time, the US government did not react in any way to our request to supply us with an aluminum rolling mill, an installation for the production of toluene, two catalytic plants, and a hydrogen plant. It did not touch on other points of the application either. We received a positive response to a request to place orders for machine tools, hammers, presses in the amount of $ 32 million. But it is very characteristic that preference was given to dispatching equipment for previously placed Soviet orders until October 1, 1941, only in the amount of about 5 million dollars and for the same amount - for the manufacture of equipment within a year. As for other equipment worth more than $ 20 million, its deliveries were stretched for more than a year. In this it was easy to see the desire of Acheson and the US government circles as a whole, by referring to "objective" reasons, including the state of the American machine-tool industry, to stretch the supply of materials needed by the Soviet Union for several years.
        The Americans agreed to place orders through Amtorg for about $ 13 million, of which less than a third should be shipped within the next two months. Total Until October 1941, it was envisaged to ship goods that are not weapons for $ 25 million, and in total, orders were placed in the amount of about $ 70 million.

        About what billions you can talk about, apparently no one will give an intelligible answer.
        1. Avior
          Avior 21 September 2020 14: 24
          +7
          Trade, which was conducted separately, was not included in Lend Lease, so there is no need to interfere with one another.
          Everything was exactly the same in the Lend Lease deliveries, as I described.
          Of course, firms could only supply what they could actually produce.
          But in any case, the USSR chose what it considered necessary.
          The trade was conducted independently and had no connection with Lend Lease.
          They agreed there, as in ordinary trade, what surprises you?
          1. ccsr
            ccsr 21 September 2020 18: 27
            -5
            Quote: Avior
            They agreed there, as in ordinary trade, what surprises you?

            Stories about the fact that we were allegedly supplied in 1941 under Lend-Lease with goods and weapons worth billions of dollars.
            Quote: Avior
            Trade, which was conducted separately, was not included in Lend Lease, so there is no need to interfere with one another.

            I didn’t interfere - I just reminded us that in the most difficult time they didn’t supply us under Lend-Lease at all, and we had to buy a lot from our allies.
            1. Avior
              Avior 21 September 2020 19: 11
              +3
              with the most difficult time, the question is not easy.
              Until 1943, fortunately for us, German industry operated in peacetime.
              In early 1943, the Nazis announced the transition to "total war" - the transition to martial law and the transfer of industry to military needs with the growth of arms production.
              The fact that thanks to the lend person we were able to restore the industry by 1943 and further maintain superiority over the Germans in the production of weapons does not mean that times were not difficult, and the land lease was not needed.
              1. ccsr
                ccsr 22 September 2020 11: 30
                -5
                Quote: Avior
                The fact that thanks to the lend person we were able to restore the industry by 1943 and further maintain superiority over the Germans in the production of weapons does not mean that times were not difficult, and the land lease was not needed.

                There are two distortions here at once. Firstly, we restored the industry, obviously without Lend-Lease, if only because evacuation plans were developed even before the war, and they, albeit not in full, were carried out. Moreover, we had to supply our own raw materials in order to be able to pay for what was not included in the lend-lease:
                What kind of goods went to the American allies? This is a fairly extensive assortment. Chromium and manganese ore, platinum, iridium, palladium, precious stones, petroleum products, timber, chemical concentrates. There were a lot of raw materials of animal origin: bristles, horsehair, down, feathers, sheepskin, camel hair, cotton fleece, lamb intestines. There were also food products on this list: barrel caviar, canned crab and yellow tobacco. It should be noted that a large number of goods were delivered in excess of the norm prescribed in the contract.

                Secondly, no one denies the benefits of Lend-Lease for our country - this assistance was important to us not only as a material value, but above all clearly marked the position of the allies during the Second World War.
                But this does not mean that we should assume that it was thanks to Lend-Lease that we restored the industry or won the war - we would have been able to defeat Germany without American help, but perhaps there would have been more losses and Victory would not have come in May 1945.
                1. Astra wild
                  Astra wild 22 September 2020 12: 44
                  0
                  In fact, someone quoted Molotov as saying about this.
                2. Trapperxnumx
                  Trapperxnumx 22 September 2020 15: 03
                  -2
                  Quote: ccsr
                  we would have been able to defeat Germany without American help, but perhaps there would have been more losses and Victory would not have come in May 1945.

                  Every time I am touched by the phrase you quoted.
                  Have you ever wondered that your grandfathers could be in these "losses"? And the very fact of your birth and existence became possible thanks to this very Lend-Lease?
                  1. ccsr
                    ccsr 22 September 2020 18: 59
                    -1
                    Quote: Trapper7
                    Have you ever wondered what your grandfathers could be in these "losses"?

                    My grandfather and uncle died in that war, and the rest of my relatives took part in it, so there is no need to lead to the idea that without Lend-Lease, we would not have won the war at all.
                    Quote: Trapper7
                    And the very fact of your birth and existence became possible thanks to this very Lend-Lease?

                    No, it was due to the fact that all my relatives participated in that war, and did not rely on the Americans, who did not want to open a second front until 1944.
                    1. Trapperxnumx
                      Trapperxnumx 24 September 2020 11: 04
                      -1
                      Quote: ccsr
                      so there is no need to lead to the idea that if it weren't for Lend-Lease, we wouldn't have won the war at all.

                      Where? Where exactly am I leading to this thought?
                      I'm talking about the fact that thanks to L-L, many lives of our soldiers and civilians were saved, and thanks to this, many commentators (including myself) can write these very comments.
                      One of my grandfathers was taken prisoner at 41. He told me this ... he was released at 44 and he still fought until May 45. If this very L-L had not had time to free him at 44 ??? Or would you still stomp across Ukraine on foot? And there are many, many thousands like my grandfather. Could they live to see liberation?
                      I do not idolize L-L. I just objectively say thank you to our allies for their help and I don’t want to be a person who starts scolding for a piece of bread in a hungry year, “but what about bread? Why no butter”.
                      Lend Lease helped us a lot. To deny this and say "yes it was garbage, we would have been without them hoo" is at least silly.
                      1. ccsr
                        ccsr 24 September 2020 11: 40
                        -6
                        Quote: Trapper7
                        Where? Where exactly am I leading to this thought?

                        In the subtext.
                        Quote: Trapper7
                        I'm talking about the fact that thanks to L-L, many lives of our soldiers and civilians were saved, and thanks to this, many commentators (including myself) can write these very comments.

                        And I tell you that if the Allies had not pursued a double-dealing policy and bombed industrial facilities in Germany since 1939 in order to destroy the German military-industrial complex, then perhaps we would not need Lend-Lease - the Germans would not have the strength to attack the USSR.
                        Quote: Trapper7
                        He told me this ... he was released at 44 and he still fought until May 45. If this very L-L had not had time to release him at 44 ???

                        If you studied the volumes of supplies under Lend-Lease for the years from 1941 to 1945, then you would know that almost 70% of supplies fell on 1944 and half of 1945, i.e. when the Americans decided to land in Europe. That is why they tried so hard with Lend-Lease at the end of the war, realizing that they would suffer huge losses after the landing if we slowed down the offensive, which was confirmed in the Ardennes.

                        Quote: Trapper7
                        I do not idolize L-L. I just objectively say thank you to our allies for their help and do not want to be human,

                        And why don't the Americans thank us for the fact that we went to war with Japan, and reduced the war period for them by at least six months, and at the same time our people and our equipment were destroyed? Maybe at least in this respect they needed to be more decent, since they did not want to destroy the German military potential in Germany during their bombing.
                        Quote: Trapper7
                        Lend Lease helped us a lot.

                        1941 or 1942?
                      2. Trapperxnumx
                        Trapperxnumx 24 September 2020 15: 04
                        0
                        Yes, even at 43-45. However, you have your own point of view, I have mine. Let it be
                      3. Alexey Z
                        Alexey Z 27 September 2020 15: 02
                        -1
                        And I tell you that if the Allies had not pursued a double-dealing policy and bombed industrial facilities in Germany since 1939 in order to destroy the German military-industrial complex, it is possible
                        Why didn't the USSR bombed? Haven't even entered the "strange war"?
              2. Avior
                Avior 22 September 2020 17: 58
                -1
                You put the question wrong.
                We won with the help of Land Lease, this is a historical fact, but we would have won without this help, it must be proved.
                The main help for Lend Lease is that he closed the bottlenecks of the industry, which disorganized its work. That we were just able to provide, relatively speaking, 90 percent of the product's production - you can't make the product without the remaining 10. Lend Lease allowed us to close these bottlenecks.
                And the fact that there was a small amount of trade, and what's wrong with that? The normal phenomenon, the volumes with Lend Lease were incomparable. By the way, you listed what we were selling, and not what we bought from the Americans, and you need to look at why it was impossible to use the Lend Lease, American firms were interested in general.
                1. ccsr
                  ccsr 22 September 2020 19: 24
                  -5
                  Quote: Avior
                  You put the question wrong.
                  We won with the help of Land Lease, this is a historical fact, but we would have won without this help, it must be proved.

                  The Americans would never have defeated Japan if the USSR had not entered the war - try to prove the opposite, since you put the question so cleverly, because this is a historical fact.
                  Quote: Avior
                  The main help for Lend Lease is that he closed the bottlenecks of the industry, which disorganized its work.

                  It would be better if the Americans bombed the industrial centers of Germany, then we would not even need Lend-Lease:

                  So it remains to be seen what would have done us good - paying for the Lend-Lease after the war, or the destruction of Germany's military potential by the Americans during the bombing.
                  1. Avior
                    Avior 22 September 2020 20: 41
                    -1
                    ... The Americans would never have defeated Japan if the USSR had not entered the war

                    Why the Japanese surrendered - this was officially, clearly, publicly and unequivocally said by the emperor who personally announced the surrender. Because of the atomic bombings.
                    ... the enemy began using new weapons of unprecedented power. This deadly bomb has caused irreparable damage to our land and claimed thousands of innocent lives. If we continue to fight, this will not only lead to the complete destruction of the Japanese nation, but also give a start to the eradication of all of humanity.

                    In this situation, we are obliged to save millions of fellow citizens and justify ourselves before the holy spirits of our ancestors. It is for this reason that we have issued an order to accept all provisions of the joint Declaration.


                    The fact that the USSR entered the war with Japan also had an impact, in my opinion.
                    1. Cowbra
                      Cowbra 23 September 2020 05: 10
                      0
                      The government met about the bombing once - after the destruction of Tokyo, where the destruction and casualties were much more significant. Japan simply did not notice the destruction of Hiroshima and Nagasaki - an ordinary incident that had previously happened to many cities. They capitulated only after the defeat of the Kwantung Army, and that was the plan for the defense of the islands and the transfer of the government to the mainland.
                    2. Avior
                      Avior 23 September 2020 05: 33
                      -1
                      There is a clear and unambiguous statement of surrender with a simultaneous order for the Japanese army to surrender, which clearly and unambiguously indicates the main reason for the surrender.
                    3. Cowbra
                      Cowbra 23 September 2020 06: 01
                      +1
                      Lord, it was already clear there that Japan was going to the United States - what the owner ordered, they wrote, and the United States by that time considered the USSR as an enemy, therefore nuclear weapons were used - absolutely meaningless .. The question is - when was the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki? When was the one and a half million Kwantung Army defeated? And when did Japan surrender? Everything, just look at three dates - and everything is clear, there is no relation to the bombing. The destruction of Tokyo with conventional bombs may just as well be called the reason. Well, yes, also noticeably earlier than the surrender, like Hirosaki
                    4. Avior
                      Avior 23 September 2020 06: 42
                      -1
                      So see these three dates
                      The bomb was dropped on Nagasaki by 9, the decision of the Japanese to surrender was already on the night of 10.
                      The Kwantung Army did not even have time to enter the battles.
                      Officially about the surrender with an explanation of the reason - atomic bombing - Emperor Hirohito announced 14, the Kwantung Army had just started fighting.
                      16, the order of the emperor reached and the commander of the army announced the surrender of the army and most of the army surrendered, some of whom the order did not reach, fought for another week.
                      hi
                    5. Cowbra
                      Cowbra 23 September 2020 06: 47
                      0
                      Quote: Avior
                      the Japanese decision to surrender was already on the night of 10

                      ... and until the second of September they booted with joy, could not capitulate in any way. Do I look like an idiot - believe in such a linden?
                    6. Avior
                      Avior 23 September 2020 06: 59
                      -1
                      The real surrender to the Japanese troops was announced on August 14, the fundamental decision to surrender was announced on the night of 10.
                      September 2 was the solemn signing of the act of surrender of Japan, as the Allies wanted.
                      If you have already wedged yourself into someone else's communication, you could get acquainted with the basic facts.
                      hi
                    7. Cowbra
                      Cowbra 23 September 2020 07: 38
                      0
                      You could get acquainted with the fact that by the time the surrender order was signed. The Kwantung army was defeated - and the reasoning that the decision had been made, but still wanted to fight, was that Japan's position when signing the Act of Surrender was weaker because there were no longer 1,5 million bogot bayonets behind them - fairy tales are crooked. This is how they gouged them on the continent - that's it, the order came out right away - instantly! And the destruction of two cities is bullshit. cities were destroyed by dozens before - and did not lead to anything.
                      Read the facts. and do not teach others, it is not useful.
                    8. Avior
                      Avior 23 September 2020 07: 44
                      -1
                      You are confusing the military order of surrender, fundamentally approved on August 10 and signed by the emperor on August 14 on the surrender of Japanese troops to the allies, at that time no Kwantung army was defeated, and the Japan Surrender Act on September 2, a document with a different text and content - it contains the principles of Japan's surrender as a state on the terms set forth in the Potsdam Declaration were mutually confirmed.
                      hi
                    9. Cowbra
                      Cowbra 23 September 2020 07: 47
                      0
                      I repeat once again, the Order of Surrender is the 14th, the rest is the tales of the Brothers Grimm hi And, which is typical, the first to capitulate once in China and Mongolia were the troops - they were ordered hi wassat
                    10. Avior
                      Avior 23 September 2020 08: 14
                      -1
                      On August 14, the Kwantung Army was not defeated.
                      You should be familiar with the facts before getting involved in someone else's discussion.
                      hi
  • Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
    Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 21 September 2020 16: 05
    +1
    The same Acheson, who was shown Kolyma to convince of solvency?
    And what does the lend-lease have to do with it?
  • Alexey RA
    Alexey RA 22 September 2020 09: 40
    +2
    We love to talk about the US industry of 1941, taking the US industry of 1945 as a model. This is as wrong as talking about the Red Army arr. 30s, based on impressions of service in the SA of the late USSR. smile
    Quote: ccsr
    Nor were they given anti-aircraft guns of the required small caliber.

    Please tell me what small-caliber guns were in the United States in 1941? Are you even aware of what was going on with the MZA in the United States before the beginning of 1943? I'm not talking about the fleet with their "decade-long fiasco" in the form of a "Chicago piano" - the army's situation was no better:
    Racially faithful to the 37-mm MZA, which had just entered the series, after getting acquainted with the Bofors, it was recognized as obsolete and left in production only for the duration of the Bofors development (at first, the army generally broke the contract for the 37-mm MZA). Moreover, its production went at such a pace that at the beginning of the war with Japan in the main base of the Pacific Fleet out of 120 regular 37-mm MZA, in fact, there were only 20, and the BC for them was delivered only a week before the "Day of Shame".
    The 40-mm Bofors purchased from the Swedes turned out to be absolutely low-tech and unsuitable for mass production. Chrysler engineers, designers and technologists spent a year completely redesigning the gun design, after which only the caliber remained "Swedish" in it. So the 40-mm MZA got into a large series only in 1943.
    At the end of 1941, the entire air defense of the US Army was 76-mm M3 anti-aircraft guns and John Mosesovich's machine guns.
    Quote: ccsr
    As for other equipment worth more than $ 20 million, its deliveries were stretched for more than a year. In this it was easy to see the desire of Acheson and the US government circles as a whole, by referring to "objective" reasons, including the state of the American machine-tool industry, to stretch the supply of materials needed by the Soviet Union for several years.

    The Americans urgently need to develop industry to supply their army and the British. The Americans need to arm their own army, which has grown 17 times in two years. The Americans need to build a convoy and merchant fleet - and for myself and for that guy... For 1941, the American aircraft industry considers an order for 200 four-engined aircraft "large" - and it will soon need to produce thousands of these aircraft.
    All this requires the expansion of production and new machines. The US Stankprom is overwhelmed with work. And here the USSR proposes to abandon everything (including the state order) and deal only with its orders.
    1. ccsr
      ccsr 22 September 2020 12: 13
      -4
      Quote: Alexey RA
      Please tell me what small-caliber guns were in the United States in 1941?

      This has been discussed on VO for a long time - you probably do not know, so check it out for yourself so that I do not portray "Rabinovich's rehash" to you:
      https://topwar.ru/55700-amerikanskie-zenitnye-sredstva-pvo-v-gody-vtoroy-mirovoy-chast-1-ya.html
      Quote: Alexey RA
      At the end of 1941, the entire air defense of the US Army was 76-mm M3 anti-aircraft guns and John Mosesovich's machine guns.

      This is not entirely true, but this is not even the point, but the fact that the law on lend-lease made it possible to take available weapons from the army and supply them to the allies. That is why our military specialists knew where they could get air defense weapons from even before the full deployment of the US defense industry.
      Quote: Alexey RA
      And here the USSR proposes to abandon everything (including the state order) and deal only with its orders.

      You are interpreting the Lend-Lease Law too one-sidedly, if only because it was passed before June 22, 1941. And the essence of it, first of all, was that the US government guaranteed the industry payment for any military equipment that is required under this law. As you know, the US industry until 1941 was not yet able to get out of the depression, and banks refused to lend to military production without government guarantees to pay for it. Having received the right under the Lend-Lease Act to start printing debt obligations in excess of the established limits, the US government gave banks such a guarantee. This is why military orders were instantly lucrative for any manufacturer because they were guaranteed to be paid at industry-set prices. And the debt obligations of the US government to the banks were supported by intergovernmental agreements with allies, which were allocated loans for the purchase of military products. For example, the British government pledged to open up the markets of its metropolis to American companies, which in itself stimulated even the non-military sector of the American economy. As they say in such cases, the US government "played with one goal," and if they wanted to help the USSR, they would rather quickly be able to arrange the supply of weapons to us from the US army even before the deployment of the entire military-industrial complex, but they really wanted the USSR and Germany to carry as much losses, and this is obvious.
      1. Alexey RA
        Alexey RA 22 September 2020 13: 24
        0
        Quote: ccsr
        This has been discussed on VO for a long time - you probably do not know, so check it out for yourself so that I do not portray "Rabinovich's rehash" to you:
        https://topwar.ru/55700-amerikanskie-zenitnye-sredstva-pvo-v-gody-vtoroy-mirovoy-chast-1-ya.html

        Have you read the article yourself?
        By the beginning of World War II in the United States, only Navy warships had more or less adequate anti-aircraft protection. At the end of the 30s, the American army was in the process of technical re-equipment and re-equipment, and its anti-aircraft weapons corresponded to the realities of a decade ago.

        And then, half an article, the very products of John Mosesovich are signed.
        20-mm "Oerlikons" - only in the navy, and with them the same problems as with the "Bofors": 379 guns on 07.12.1941 and until the middle of 1942 there will be no large series.
        20 mm in the army - only since 1943
        37 mm cannon - adopted in 1938, produced in homeopathic quantities - remember the Pearl Harbor air defense.
        40mm cannon - until 1942 the army will not have one.
        So it turns out that at the end of 1941, the US army had only machine guns from anti-aircraft and automatic machines. And one MZA gun per battery. What should the USSR supply?
        Quote: ccsr
        This is not entirely true, but this is not even the point, but the fact that the law on lend-lease made it possible to take available weapons from the army and supply them to the allies.

        What weapons are available? Once again: in December 1941, in the main base of the Pacific Fleet, with a staff of 120 MZA, there are only 20 available. And this despite the fact that the air threat for the P-Kh is considered the main one, every week the army and navy conduct air defense exercises.
        Quote: ccsr
        As they say in such cases, the US government "played with one goal," and if they wanted to help the USSR, they would rather quickly be able to arrange the supply of weapons to us from the US army even before the deployment of the entire military-industrial complex

        In the fall of 1941, the US Army is in the process of deploying. And she herself needs weapons at least for the minimum configuration of the formed divisions. From 1939 to the end of 1941, the number of divisions in the US Army increased 17 times! Moreover, this was done on the basis of three calculation divisions, one and a half of which were sitting outside the Metropolis.
        And most importantly, the US army has already been robbed in full. Everything that could be torn from the army, and even more, has already been transferred to Britain. The divisions being formed are armed with "supply contracts" - they are waiting for orders to be ready.
        1. ccsr
          ccsr 22 September 2020 13: 37
          -6
          Quote: Alexey RA
          And then, half an article, the very products of John Mosesovich are signed.

          And what does the constructor have to do with it when it comes to quantities?
          Quote: Alexey RA
          So it turns out that at the end of 1941, the US army had only machine guns from anti-aircraft and automatic machines. And one MZA gun per battery. What should the USSR supply?

          You forgot to indicate that there was a M2 heavy machine gun in service - read the article carefully for yourself:
          Heavy machine gun M2 proved to be a very effective means of repelling low-altitude attacks of enemy aircraft. He had high combat and service and operational characteristics for his time, which ensured his widest distribution in the US armed forces and allies in the anti-Hitler coalition. Although there were no explosives in the bullets used by the Browning machine guns, all the aircraft of that time were vulnerable to his fire.

          It was this weapon that was smashed in view of our military specialists.
          Quote: Alexey RA
          And most importantly, the US army has already been robbed in full.

          Even more important is the fact that air defense systems were not needed on the territory of the United States at all at that time - this is where we need to start. And even theoretically, the Japanese could not land troops on Pearl Harbor, so the Americans hardly needed ground divisions to defend the islands in 1941.
          1. Alexey RA
            Alexey RA 22 September 2020 15: 45
            -1
            Quote: ccsr
            And what does the constructor have to do with it when it comes to quantities?

            Despite the fact that all US ZPUs are "Browning" of various types and calibers.
            And in the second half of 1941, this was the only anti-aircraft automatic weapon that the United States had in commercial quantities and that they could share. The United States sorely lacked small-caliber anti-aircraft guns even for itself.
            Quote: ccsr
            You forgot to indicate that there was a M2 heavy machine gun in service - read the article carefully for yourself:
            It was this weapon that was smashed in view of our military specialists.

            Hmm ... and since when is the anti-aircraft machine gun was small caliber anti-aircraft gun?
            Quote: ccsr
            They also did not give anti-aircraft guns of the necessary small calibers.

            In the USSR, there was a clear division into MZA and ZPU.
            Quote: ccsr
            Even more important is the fact that air defense systems were not needed on the territory of the United States at all at that time - this is where we need to start. And even theoretically, the Japanese could not land troops on Pearl Harbor, so the Americans hardly needed ground divisions to defend the islands in 1941.

            What does the division have to do with it? For 1941, the US Army was responsible for the country's air defense and military facilities. In Pearl Harbor, the anti-aircraft artillery brigades of the coastal defense of Oahu were subordinate to the army (like all coastal defenses, including fortress minefields).
            And the MZA of the army were needed for air defense bases in the Pacific Ocean and bases and cities of the United States on the Pacific coast. For the war with Japan was not far off.
            And the pace of production of 37-mm MZA was simply enchanting: 170 units in 1940 and 390 units in 1941.
            1. ccsr
              ccsr 22 September 2020 19: 11
              -5
              Quote: Alexey RA
              Um ... and since when did an anti-aircraft machine gun become a small-caliber anti-aircraft gun?

              Why don't you want to take into account the MLA, even if there were few of them? You just want to find fault with Golikov's text, and at the same time do not want to take into account that it was about any air defense means - so what?
              Quote: Alexey RA
              The United States was sorely lacking small-caliber anti-aircraft guns even for itself.

              And that there were hostilities in the US?
              Quote: Alexey RA
              And the MZA of the army were needed for air defense bases in the Pacific Ocean and bases and cities of the United States on the Pacific coast. For the war with Japan was not far off.

              This excuse will not work - Japan simply could not physically attack the US coast, which means that fighter aircraft and air defense systems of warships would be quite enough to repel any raid on bases, if not to sleep, as it was on Pearl Harbor.
              1. Alexey RA
                Alexey RA 23 September 2020 09: 11
                0
                Quote: ccsr
                Why don't you want to take into account the MLA, even if there were few of them? You just want to find fault with Golikov's text, and at the same time do not want to take into account that it was about any air defense means - so what?

                Specifically in Golikov's text it was written in black and white:
                Nor were they given anti-aircraft guns of the required small caliber.

                And the reasoning that the guns meant machine guns is the pulling of an owl onto the globe.
                Quote: ccsr
                And that there were hostilities in the US?

                The United States had a war with Japan and Germany on its nose, for which it was preparing intensively. Already in the spring of 1941, American quarters inspected the British Isles, choosing locations for the American Army and its Air Force.
                Quote: ccsr
                This excuse will not work - Japan simply could not physically attack the US coast, which means that fighter aircraft and air defense systems of warships would be quite enough to repel any raid on bases, if not to sleep, as it was on Pearl Harbor.

                Are you ready to give a 100% guarantee of this, based only on information no later than 1941?
                Especially taking into account the fact that otherwise all those involved are waiting for a commission of the Senate and Congress, ready to break everything and everyone in order to appear in a favorable light in front of the raided voters? And this is not some kind of Hawaii, but the Metropolis - the states of California, Oregon and Washington.
                1. ccsr
                  ccsr 23 September 2020 12: 09
                  -4
                  Quote: Alexey RA
                  Specifically in Golikov's text it was written in black and white:

                  Quote: Alexey RA
                  And the reasoning that the guns meant machine guns is the pulling of an owl onto the globe.

                  To argue that MZA is not a tool is also to pull an owl onto the globe, which is what you are trying to do.
                  Quote: Alexey RA
                  The United States had a war with Japan and Germany on its nose, for which it was preparing intensively.

                  So you yourself said that the US military-industrial complex was not deployed - how is it necessary to prepare for war like that, if military production in 1941 did not even switch to an enhanced mode of operation.
                  Quote: Alexey RA
                  Already in the spring of 1941, American lodgers inspected the British Isles,

                  Hitler only declared war on the United States on December 11, and the American "isolationists" almost drowned the Lend-Lease Act, which was passed on March 11, at all. And the quartermasters came in the spring not to determine the places for the deployment of American troops, but only to understand how the reception of American equipment and weapons would be carried out within the framework of the Lend-Lease.
                  Quote: Alexey RA
                  Are you ready to give a 100% guarantee of this, based only on information no later than 1941?

                  Any military professional already understands that the Japanese did not have the forces and means to organize the transfer and supply of their troops to the American mainland, even if they defeated Pearl Harbor. So leave fantasies for the naive.
                  Quote: Alexey RA
                  And this is not some kind of Hawaii, but the Metropolis - the states of California, Oregon and Washington.

                  It’s not funny yourself to believe this nonsense? During the entire war, only once or twice a Japanese submarine delivered a seaplane to US territory and where a test flight was made, as far as I know. Or do you have evidence that at least one Japanese cruiser fired at these states?
      2. Avior
        Avior 22 September 2020 20: 46
        0
        With all the capabilities of American industry, it could not start producing military products in one day.
        They still needed time. In any case, the USSR itself chose what to supply
  • Cowbra
    Cowbra 21 September 2020 11: 27
    0
    Tfu, damn it, I forgot))) "Please do not pump up":
  • Alexey RA
    Alexey RA 21 September 2020 13: 35
    +5
    Quote: Cowbra
    You can not only remember about us, but also about the British, how they actually wrested their colonies for a couple of dozen ancient destroyers ...

    More precisely, how the FDR bypassed all the Acts of Neutrality and gave the British 50 EV in exchange for the fact that the very fate (more precisely, the Monroe Doctrine) was destined for America - British bases in the Caribbean. smile
    Quote: Cowbra
    And this is called - STILL CRAZY.

    From the point of view of the Empire, yes. The import of almost 2,4 million rifles is generally beyond the bounds.
    And this is called "the presence in the USSR of its own production." Which allowed the WWII not to import almost all aircraft engines and most of the aircraft. Or 3 "guns with bomb and mortars. And limit the import of machine guns to anti-aircraft models and weapons that came with the equipment."
  • Operator
    Operator 21 September 2020 11: 04
    +2
    The main thing that Hopkins handed over to Stalin was the US mobilization plan, which provided for the deployment from 1941 of the production of hundreds of thousands of aircraft, tanks, artillery pieces and tens of thousands of ships and ships. This inspired Stalin, who understood what was required of him - to hold out until the complete transfer of the US economy to a war footing. Roosevelt proclaimed back in 1940 that America must be the world's arsenal in the fight against totalitarian regimes (Germany, Japan, Italy, Spain, Vichy France and the USSR at that time).

    Lend-Lease in the most critical period of the Second World War (1941) was a cat cry, and not only because the United States was still deploying its industry for the production of weapons. The American political elite, led by Roosevelt, clearly implemented the pre-war plan voiced in the same year by Senator Harry Truman: "If Germany wins, we will help the Soviet Union, if vice versa, then Germany." The US foreign trade department has implemented this directive - for example, the father of the future US President John F. Kennedy, being the American ambassador to Britain, publicly drowned for the union of Germany and Britain, not at all embarrassed by the German bombing of London.

    So the USSR repelled the first most dangerous blow exclusively with its own forces - with a regular army, accumulated weapons before the war and the exchange of territory for a while. The Americans pulled themselves up only in 1942, at the same time forgetting about their political setting, since they themselves became a belligerent and they needed foreign cannon fodder.

    Therefore, the naivety of the authors of the article is striking not childishly laughing
    1. Selevc
      Selevc 21 September 2020 12: 29
      -11 qualifying.
      Lend-Lease is not a help - Lend-Lease is an opportunity to buy !!! The USA and Britain were selling a life preserver to the sinking Soviet ally !!! All these mountains of resources were supplied to the USSR exclusively in exchange for gold and platinum - and it is not known at what prices ... They paid so generously that precious metals were exported from the USSR by whole steamers !!! But I think that the USSR did not stand up for the price - and the capitalist, as you know, for 300% of the profit is ready to blow up the whole planet for such and such a grandmother !!!

      Tanks, airplanes, cars, tractors, energy - in the pre-war years all over the world it was new and a novelty. And the 2nd World War allowed the United States to launch the production of all these and many other new products on a wide flow !!!
      As a result, at the end of World War II, the USA had the most powerful industry, leadership in science, 2% of the world's gold reserve and leadership in world trade - which, by the way, they took from Great Britain.
      1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
        Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 21 September 2020 12: 45
        10
        Quote: Selevc
        All these mountains of resources were supplied to the USSR exclusively in exchange for gold and platinum - and it is not known at what prices ...

        more details, please.
        With links to documents whenever possible.
      2. bubalik
        bubalik 21 September 2020 15: 17
        +5
        They paid so generously that precious metals were exported from the USSR by whole steamers !!!
        belay
        ,,, I recommend to read the story about "silver" "John Barry".

        By the beginning of the Great Patriotic War, the gold reserve of the USSR increased to 2600 tons.
        In 1953, the country's gold reserve was 2048,9 tons
        1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
          Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 21 September 2020 17: 45
          +3
          .the gold reserves of the USSR increased to 2600 tons.
          In 1953, the country's gold reserve was 2048,9 tons

          In addition to L-L, there was trade according to the usual commercial rules.
          Britain's gold reserves also dropped from 1800 tonnes in 1939 to 1200 tonnes in 1950.
    2. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
      Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 21 September 2020 12: 35
      +9
      Quote: Operator
      and the exchange of territory for a while.

      there it is, it means - there was no catastrophe of the summer of 41, there were no five giant cauldrons with the loss of 17 armies and 13 mechanized corps, there was no blockaded Leningrad, doomed to a hungry winter, there were no forced to be occupied by Soviet citizens, there were no one and a half million prisoners, there were no abandoned territories, practically equal in area to what the Reich captured during the western campaign, and was, therefore, "exchange of territory for time".
      You, hyperpatriots, find yourself in some kind of your own specific matrix. The manner of turning any dramatic defeat into an ingenious multi-step of infallible leadership, relying on afterthought and exuding retrospective historical optimism is simply amazing, yes.
      1. Operator
        Operator 21 September 2020 12: 42
        -1
        Eka inserts you from the standard WWII technique - "increasing the depth of defense" laughing

        Relax: in TMV we will use another standard technique - "increasing the area affected by yadrenbatons".
        1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
          Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 21 September 2020 13: 06
          +4
          Quote: Operator
          Eka inserts you from the standard WWII technique - "increasing the depth of defense"

          yes, I understood already - this is just such a brilliant tactic - to boil 17 armies in boilers and lose thousands of tons of military equipment in order to simply reduce the defenses to the Petrozavodsk-Rostov line, wait for a thaw (or frost, according to circumstances), an attack of inspiration from the military - and drive adversary back. Well, yes, we still have to wait until the displaced industry starts to produce products. I think that demanding from her on the move, in echelons, to release tanks, is too much even for you, hyperpatriots)
          1. Operator
            Operator 21 September 2020 14: 00
            -8
            You will appreciate our tactics on your own skin - after treatment with yadrenbaton, of course.
            1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
              Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 21 September 2020 15: 15
              +5
              Funny funny) And on what date is the bombing of Moscow with these loaves of yours scheduled? It would be a pity to miss such an event.
              1. Operator
                Operator 22 September 2020 12: 08
                -4
                Since when has your Haifa been renamed "Moscow"? laughing
                1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
                  Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 22 September 2020 12: 11
                  -1
                  Quote: Operator
                  Since when has your Haifa been renamed "Moscow"?


                  ah, are you, my dear, just a stupid provocateur?
                  Well, look for another interlocutor. hi
                  1. Operator
                    Operator 22 September 2020 12: 15
                    -4
                    I don’t serve on Tuesdays.
  • BAI
    BAI 21 September 2020 17: 21
    -1
    In addition, the observant and corrosive assistant to the US president had to make sure that red Russia was really determined to resist.

    To convince Hopkins of the determination and ability of the USSR to wage war
    Stalin painted Hopkins an optimistic picture of the position of his troops. By early October, he predicted the stabilization of the front line on the approaches to Moscow, Leningrad and To Kiev.

    This projected border across Kiev resulted in the refusal to withdraw troops from Kiev, the encirclement and defeat of the Southwestern Front.
    This is the price of Lend-Lease.
    1. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 21 September 2020 19: 37
      +1
      Quote: BAI
      This projected border across Kiev resulted in the refusal to withdraw troops from Kiev, the encirclement and defeat of the Southwestern Front.

      Even the General Staff was against the withdrawal of troops. In fact, at the end of the summer of 1941, the YuZN found itself in zugzwang - any action led to defeat.
      If you do not retreat, the Germans will concentrate superior forces in the areas of the breakthrough, break through the defenses and surround our rifle formations with mechanical units.
      If we retreat, the German advanced groups of mechanized formations and infantry, due to greater mobility, will occupy crossings and road junctions, after which our outgoing formations will be pressed against natural lines and will be forced to cross, leaving behind heavy weapons (fortunately, before the eyes of the General Staff there was an example of the 5th Army's withdrawal ). After that, on the other side, they will be rolled out by the calmly crossed Germans.

      The only way to resist the mobile units of the Germans was their own mechanical units. But SWN practically did not have them.
  • Tests
    Tests 21 September 2020 18: 14
    +5
    Undecim, dear, I have to correct you a little. Northern convoys in the fall of 1941 went only to Arkhangelsk. Murmansk was, in fact, a front-line city, there was no certainty that we would not surrender it. That is why part of the equipment of the Murmansk port in XNUMX was evacuated to Arkhangelsk. That is why the British Air Force and Navy fought for Murmansk. And do not forget with what forces the British Navy evacuated our miners with their families from Spitsbergen.
    Undecim, dear, thanks for the photo of "Protocol ..."! It seems that the authors of the material deliberately do not remember about Britain's help to us in 1941. And, as many noted in the comments to the material dated 11.09.2020/XNUMX/XNUMX, the authors did not remember Tuva and Mongolia at all.
    1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
      Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 21 September 2020 19: 12
      +4
      Quote: Tests
      It seems that the authors of the material deliberately do not remember about Britain's help to us in 1941.

      well, it's not really help, but rather an allied commercial project, so to speak. But, I agree, it is simply surprising that the authors call Hopkins' visit to Moscow at the end of July as the "first step" towards the AGC. If so, what should be considered the Soviet-British agreement of July 12, 41?
    2. Undecim
      Undecim 21 September 2020 23: 43
      +2
      Yes, Arkhangelsk, carelessness on my part.
      As for Operation Gauntlet on Svalbard, it deserves an article, but not these authors.
    3. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 22 September 2020 09: 04
      +2
      Quote: Tests
      And, as many noted in the comments to the material dated 11.09.2020/XNUMX/XNUMX, the authors did not remember Tuva and Mongolia at all.

      Probably because in the comments to the article dated September 11.09.2020, XNUMX, it was indicated that Mongolia, which was actually the territory of the USSR, provided "assistance" for the most part for money.
      9 echelons of gifts and funds for 50 tanks and 12 aircraft - this will not be enough for a day of war. And Mongolia sold everything else in the most difficult time for the USSR.
      © tlahuikol
      And it becomes somehow uncomfortable to be indignant at the fact that the Allies also asked to pay for part of their "aid".
  • Tests
    Tests 22 September 2020 10: 00
    +1
    The paragraph Epitafievich Y., dear, the death of British pilots on the Kola Peninsula in the fall of 1941, I would not call a commercial project. Airplanes and trained fighter pilots and Britain needed at home. At least cover London. And to cover the fleet and colonies all over the world - how many were there? ... If we talk about commerce, then we need to recall the Agreement on mutual supplies, credit and the procedure for payments of August 16, 1941.
    Most of all I was pleased with the first sentence of the article: "In reality, more precisely, legally, the anti-Hitler coalition was formed only on January 1, 1942." The authors have forgotten what and who in Moscow signed on October 01, 1941 from the USSR, the USA and Great Britain? You can also dive into the Internet and find: http://alliance.rusarchives.ru/ru/sekretnyy-protokol-moskovskoy-konferencii-1-oktyabrya-1941-g
    And on 01.01.1942/XNUMX/XNUMX, who signed what and where?
  • Tests
    Tests 22 September 2020 10: 24
    +1
    Alexey RA (Alexey), dear, me in the comments of the material from 11.09.2020/1941/1941. sincerely pleased with the signs. that the respected bubalik (Sergey) posted. There are data for 1941 about small livestock, horses, furs and fur raw materials from Iran (I agree that since the fall of XNUMX the north of the country is ours), from Afghanistan, from Xinjiang. The history of East Turkestan has always been interesting to me. I didn't know about deliveries in XNUMX.
    Yes, dear visitors of "VO"! Maybe someone knows about 10 pieces of Mauser rifles and Czech machine guns (both hand and easel) made in Iran, which came to the USSR in 000-1941 and were used in the defense of Tuapse. I read about how in 42-1943 we tried to establish the production of PPSh in Iran. I would like to read about rifles and machine guns in more detail.
    1. hohol95
      hohol95 22 September 2020 11: 49
      0
      An article about the creation and establishment of production of PPSh-41 and cartridges for it in Iran was in one of the weapons magazines. In the early 2000s. Alas, I don't remember the name of the magazine! Perhaps "Weapon".
      The article began with a find near Voronezh of cartridge cases from a TT cartridge but with a marking not familiar to search engines.
      I came across a note about battles in the North. Springs were required to repair disks for PP PPD and PPSh. Naturally, there were none. And then they turned to the population with a request to hand over their gramophones and gramophones to remove the springs. And people handed over their personal gramophones and other mechanisms, realizing that this was needed for the front.
      Maybe those springs were just a "small drop". But she also helped "grind off the stone".
  • Old Michael
    Old Michael 22 September 2020 17: 31
    0
    the two sides, like real scientists, managed to agree on concepts.

    I have always believed that scientists operate with terms and definitions.
    Although, yes, I know one "scientist", the driver of the boss of one of not so much organized crime groups, but a very similar structure. In 1994, his boss gave him a birthday crust from a member of the Academy of Sciences. By concepts.