Military Review

Balkenkreuz. The history of the "bar cross"

184

Tanks Pz.III of the 10th Panzer Division with girder crosses, August 1941


В history The German bar cross, or Balkankreuz, came in thanks to the events of World War II. During the war years, the stylized image of the cross could be found on all German military equipment. Balkenkreuz during the war years was the main identification mark of the Wehrmacht, it was used in the Luftwaffe and Kriegsmarine. At the same time, the very image of the cross was used in the Middle Ages by various German knightly orders, and the stylized image of the "iron cross" is still an identification mark of the military equipment of the Bundeswehr.

The appearance of the cross as a German military symbol


The cross itself, which was widely used on German military equipment during the Second World War, is a stylization of the Teutonic cross and the cross of St. Nicholas (Nicholas the Wonderworker). Very often in the literature you can find an incorrect translation of the word "balkenkreuz" (German Balkenkreuz). The mistake, in which such a cross is called "Balkan", occurs in both Russian and English. At the same time, the cross has nothing to do with the Balkans and the states located on the Balkan Peninsula. From the German language "Balken" is translated as a wooden beam, crossbeam or timber, for this reason the correct translation from German is the phrase "crossbar".


Knights of the Teutonic Order

The first to use the black cross as an identification mark were the Germanic knights, this happened back in the Middle Ages during the era of the famous crusades. The black enamel Latin cross with a white enamel border became the official symbol of the Teutonic Order for many years. The knights of the order widely used the stylized image of a black cross on a white background on their shields, as well as on their cloaks, clothing and banners.

The Teutonic Order itself was founded as a spiritual knighthood. The order's motto was the phrase "Helfen - Wehren - Heilen" ("Help - protect - heal"). According to one version, the order was founded on November 19, 1190 by one of the leaders of the German knights, Duke Friedrich of Swabia. It is believed that this happened after the capture of the Akra fortress by the crusaders. At the same time, a hospital was founded in the city, which became the permanent seat of the order. According to another version, during the third crusade, when the crusaders besieged Acre, merchants from Bremen and Lübeck founded a field hospital to help the wounded crusaders. It was this hospital that Duke Friedrich of Swabia then transformed into a spiritual order.

Balkenkreuz. The history of the "bar cross"

Russian icon depicting Nicholas the Wonderworker, approximately the end of the XNUMXth century

It is known that the transformation of the order into a spiritual-knightly one took place in 1196 in the temple of Acre. The ceremony was attended by representatives of the Templar and Hospitaller orders, as well as clergy and lay people from Jerusalem. This event in February 1199 was confirmed by a special bull of Pope Innocent III. At the same time, the main tasks of the Teutonic Order were determined: the protection of the German knights, the treatment of the sick and the fight against the enemies of the Catholic Church.

The order especially succeeded in the latter. He fought against the pagans in Prussia, the Baltic States, and Eastern Europe. The main and longest onslaught of the order was taken over by the Grand Duchy of Lithuania. In addition to him, the Russian principalities, primarily Novgorod, waged war with the order in different years. Already in the 12th century, the Nazis considered themselves to be the successors of the Teutonic Order, and in geopolitical terms they implemented precisely the medieval doctrine of the "Onslaught to the East". True, unlike the Teutonic Order, which lasted for several centuries, the Third Reich, which tried to get its living space in the East, was safely buried by Soviet and Allied troops and lasted only XNUMX years.

Balkenkreuz during the First and Second World Wars


For the first time in the 1918th century, the cross appeared on German military equipment during the First World War. At the very end of the war, in mid-April XNUMX, Balkankreuz became the official identification mark of the German Reich Air Force. The new emblem was used on German aircraft until the end of the First World War. The new symbol was introduced to improve the identification of German aircraft from the ground and in the air.


Balkenkreuz aboard a Fokker D.VII fighter, 1918

In 1935, the emblem in the form of a girder cross was again returned, but this time in Nazi Germany. This symbol first became the main emblem of the Luftwaffe, the newly formed German Air Force. In the future, the beam cross was also widely used in the army and in navy, right up to the very end of World War II.

For the first time on armored vehicles, cross-shaped emblems were applied during the Wehrmacht's invasion of Poland in September 1939. At the beginning of the campaign, a large white cross with rectangular equal sides was used. Crosses were painted on turrets and tank hulls. The emblem was clearly distinguishable and was intended to visually distinguish their armored combat vehicles from enemy vehicles. However, the very first battles showed that the emblem is well recognizable not only by its troops, but also by the enemy. It turned out that the white crosses very strongly unmask armored vehicles, representing an ideal target for the Polish artillerymen. The crosses simply made it easier to aim at the enemy, so the German tank crews began to paint over them or simply cover them up with mud.


White cross on board the Pz.I tank, this emblem was applied to armored vehicles at the beginning of the Polish campaign

Later, taking into account the experience gained, it was decided to paint over the center of the crosses with a dark yellow paint, which was used to apply divisional badges to Wehrmacht armored vehicles, while only the border of the cross remained white. Already at the end of the military campaign in Poland, a variant was finally adopted, which was widely used in the Luftwaffe, the so-called "open" cross or bar cross. This cross was applied to the armor in the form of four corners of white color directly over the main dark gray paint of German tanks. Already by the beginning of the military campaign against France, Belgium and Holland in May 1940, exactly such crosses were applied on all Wehrmacht combat vehicles as an identification emblem. At the same time, some of the tank crews painted the very center of the cross with black paint.


Balkenkreuz from white corners on top of the main dark gray paint of the hull

The sizes of the crosses on the armor could vary, although for the main battle tanks, which the Pz III and Pz IV remained for many years, a single Balkenkreuz size was adopted: 25 centimeters in height. On captured armored vehicles, primarily Soviet ones, crosses of larger than usual sizes were often applied, which was supposed to facilitate the identification process. Until 1943, white corners in most cases were simply applied to dark gray paint, but after it was changed to sand in 1943, the cross was always painted over with black paint. During the hostilities in Africa, they switched to this option for applying emblems to military equipment already in 1941.

Initially, crosses were applied to all military equipment using special stencils, less often by fighters manually. But after in 1943-1944 all German armored vehicles received a special zimmerite coating (anti-magnetic), application began only in manual mode. For this reason, the variety of forms of crosses and their sizes increased markedly by the end of the war.


Balkenkreuz on the turret of a Pz.IV tank, the cross is painted over with black paint

Today the cross remains the identification mark and the main emblem of the Bundeswehr, but not the Balkankreuz, but a stylized image of the most famous German military award - the Iron Cross, which has become a stylized representation of the gripping, or Templar, cross. The Iron Cross itself was introduced as a reward back in 1813 to commemorate the liberation of German territory from Napoleon's troops. The new emblem of the armed forces of the Federal Republic of Germany is a clawed, or Templar, black cross, which, like the Balkankreuz, is framed by a white or light-colored edging.


Modern identification mark of the Bundeswehr on the 2A7 Leopard tank
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  1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
    Kote Pan Kokhanka 20 September 2020 05: 27
    12
    Today the cross remains the identification mark and the main emblem of the Bundeswehr, but not the Balkankreuz, but a stylized image of the most famous German military award - the Iron Cross, which has become a stylized representation of the gripping, or Templar, cross.

    Another name is "Kaiser's Cross"! It was widely used during the First World War in aviation. By the way, the "cross bar" was introduced to replace it. So the Germans consistently "fought" from the beginning with the legacy of the Empire, and then with Nazism. And in a very peculiar way - "in a circle" !!!

    Fokker fighter dr. 1 with different identification marks!



    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 20 September 2020 05: 59
      10
      During the Second World War, their allies did not lag behind the Germans!



      Finnish and Romanian satellites of Hitler!
      It is interesting that the Finns subsequently completely switched to the "cross bar"! Apparently the Luftwaffe did not bother identifying the allies!
      1. andrewkor
        andrewkor 20 September 2020 07: 18
        0
        They also invented their own cross for Ukrovaffenmarine. They did not go far from the Nazis!
        1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
          Kote Pan Kokhanka 20 September 2020 07: 54
          +5
          Quote: andrewkor
          They also invented their own cross for Ukrovaffenmarine. They did not go far from the Nazis!

          The internet is also another fact. Keizer's Germany stamped coins for the occupied territories of the Russian Empire. They were also attended by "Gross Cross"
        2. Reviews
          Reviews 20 September 2020 08: 29
          +8
          Quote: andrewkor
          They also invented their own cross for Ukrovaffenmarine. They did not go far from the Nazis!

          From the Kaisers, rather.

          1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
            Kote Pan Kokhanka 20 September 2020 18: 05
            +2
            Hmm.
            Most of the flags are the recreation of the oldest. For example, our tricolor is a heritage of Domestic colors and the Dutch form.
            Danish roots here (one of the oldest flags - known from the 13th century)

            By the way, I quote "the flag of the Swedish merchant fleet"

            And the flag of Norway!
            1. Reviews
              Reviews 20 September 2020 18: 13
              +1
              Quote: Kote Pan Kokhanka
              Hmm.
              Most of the flags are the recreation of the oldest. For example, our tricolor is a heritage of Domestic colors and the Dutch form.

              Even the Norwegian is far-fetched. But the coincidences with the Kaiser's flag are very striking. And the principle of the scheme, and proportions, and the general layout (checkbox in the upper left quarter).
              1. arturpraetor
                arturpraetor 21 September 2020 02: 45
                0
                The trouble is that the Ukrainian cross is the so-called. "Cossack cross" (in Ukraine), or rather - the shape of the Templar cross, popular in Eastern Europe. SUDDENLY, the same shape of the cross was very popular on the orders of the Russian Empire. Look, for example, at the cross of the Order of St. George. The crosses of the orders of St. Vladimir and St. Alexander Nevsky have a similar shape. But for some reason, when Russia has this, then this is the norm, and when Ukraine has German tracing paper, the Nazis, fu, you can't be like that, etc. wassat

                And the flag of the Ukrainian Navy is in fact copied from the British flag of the Navy (it is, if anything, not as a state one). Like the German flag, by the way. A distinctive feature of the German flag, the figure in the middle of the cross, is absent on the Ukrainian flag. If anything is taken from the German flag, perhaps the outline of the cross.
                1. The comment was deleted.
                  1. arturpraetor
                    arturpraetor 21 September 2020 15: 20
                    +5
                    Quote: Avis
                    Do not forget to take the pills, maybe you will lie less.

                    Yeah, just getting personal? smile You are going the right way, comrades! We will win with this sim! Don't let your opponent be hamlm, hami first! However, it is your will, but I will not stoop to this level.
                    Quote: Avis
                    Yeah, the Cossacks invented him ...

                    No, it's just that in Ukraine it is known as the "Cossack cross", not only in the form that you indicated below. In fact, this type of Templar cross in one form or another was used throughout Eastern Europe, and not only. And before you write something to someone, please, read carefully what they write to you - I never stated that the Cossacks had invented it, I just named what it is called in Ukraine, since the conversation was for the Ukrainians ...
                    Quote: Avis
                    Saw. You are not. Well, at least now look so as not to disgrace yourself.

                    Well, to begin with, the comment was not addressed only to you. There, a little higher on the same branch of the dialogue, the comrade announced that the Ukrainians had invented their own cross, "they left not far from the Nazis." This primarily concerned him. My jamb that I decided to answer two people with one comment, since you also responded to his comment, indicating that the cross is more likely from the Kaiser, although such crosses (we are talking about a cross, not a flag) were used in Eastern Europe long before the Kaiser.
                    Quote: Avis
                    The Kaiser was not a fascist, learn history.

                    And this concerned only the comrade above. You seem to have not mentioned the Nazis in this thread of discussion.
                    Quote: Avis
                    Lies again, google "royal navy flag".

                    I am perfectly familiar with the naval symbols of various states. And I also know history, including how the flag of the Ukrainian Navy was invented during the Civil War. Yes, the German flag was also used there - the very outline around the cross, which I spoke about, was taken from it, since the wide blue stripe with the state. the flag blended with the color of the cross. But this is where the borrowing ends. It was based on the British Naval Jack - a cross on a white background, with a state. flag in the upper left corner. Otherwise, a medal with a trident would have been placed in the middle of the Ukrainian flag.
                    Quote: Avis
                    There are more similarities between Kaisermarine and the Ukrainian Navy.

                    A funny statement, considering that, with the exception of two elements, the Kaiserlichmarine flag is a copy of the British Naval Jack, while the elements that the Ukrainian and German flags have, but the British do not have, there is only one - the very outline around the cross, while the the large cross, white background and the state flag in the upper left corner are the same for all three flags.

                    PS For empty accusations of lies and a boorish tone in a decent society, it is customary to apologize. I have not given you a single reason for rudeness.
                    1. Reviews
                      Reviews 21 September 2020 15: 57
                      -6
                      Quote: arturpraetor

                      No, it's just that in Ukraine it is known as the "Cossack cross"

                      I never stated that the Cossacks had invented it, I just named what it is called in Ukraine, since the conversation was for the Ukrainians.

                      "Iron" argument. :) And in the USA one attraction is known as "roller coasters", and here it is known as "American". You never know who ascribes what to whom. Look, some write that the An-124 is a Ukrainian plane, and all the prisoners of summer 1941 and the Vlasovites are Russians.

                      In fact, this type of Templar cross

                      Yeah. And the dolphin is "in fact" a kind of shark ...
                      the comment was directed not only to you. There, a little higher on the same branch of the dialogue, the comrade announced that the Ukrainians had invented their own cross, "they left not far from the Nazis." This primarily concerned him.

                      Are your hands shaking, you can't hit the right opponent with your mouse? I say - "take pills".
                      the cross is more likely from the Kaiser, although such crosses (it is about the cross, and not about the flag)

                      It is about the flag as the final "product". What does the cross have to do with it, is it just an element?
                      And this concerned only the comrade above. You seem to have not mentioned the Nazis in this thread of discussion.

                      They are exactly shaking.
                      Yes, the German flag was also used there

                      Point. This can be seen with the naked eye.
                      this is where the borrowing ends. It was based on the British Naval Jack - a cross on a white background, with a state. flag in the upper left corner.

                      And they did the Kaiser's. Open your eyes.
                      Funny statement, considering that, with the exception of two elements, the Kaiserlichmarine flag is a copy of the British Naval Jack

                      Except for one, Ukrainian is a "tracing paper" from the Kaiser's.
                      PS For empty accusations of lies and a boorish tone in a decent society, it is customary to apologize. I have not given you a single reason for rudeness.

                      And I was not rude.
                      1. arturpraetor
                        arturpraetor 21 September 2020 16: 01
                        +3
                        Everything is clear with you. Not only in a decent conversation, but also in logic, you cannot. Good luck hi
                      2. Reviews
                        Reviews 21 September 2020 19: 19
                        -3
                        Quote: arturpraetor
                        Everything is clear with you. Not only in a decent conversation, but also in logic, you cannot. Good luck hi

                        As your generation says, "the drain counts."
                        99
              2. Reviews
                Reviews 21 September 2020 07: 16
                0
                Quote: arturpraetor
                The trouble is that the Ukrainian cross is the so-called. "Cossack cross" (in Ukraine), or rather - the shape of the Templar cross, popular in Eastern Europe. SUDDENLY, the same shape of the cross was very popular on the orders of the Russian Empire. Look, for example, at the cross of the Order of St. George.

                And here's a real flag of the Sichs with a "Cossack" cross.

                Such a cross is, indeed, popular throughout Europe, including applied, yes, and on "St. George".
                Be educated. And don't lie to adults anymore.
    3. Errr
      Errr 20 September 2020 08: 21
      +7
      Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
      During the Second World War, their allies did not lag behind the Germans!
      Finnish and Romanian satellites of Hitler!
      The Romanians in 1941-1944 did not paint on the fuselages "beams", but crosses formed from the monogram of King Mihai I, which is shown in the figure below.
      1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
        Kote Pan Kokhanka 20 September 2020 09: 34
        0
        Where, in my commentary, do I claim that Romanians painted beamed crosses on their planes?
        1. Errr
          Errr 20 September 2020 09: 53
          +6
          And what do you think they [Romanians] did not lag behind the Germans in? You have, after all, literally:
          During the Second World War, their allies did not lag behind the Germans!
          And then there is a photo of Romanian IAR 80s. smile
          Did you mean that they did not lag behind the Germans in the design and manufacture of fighter-bombers? lol
          1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
            Kote Pan Kokhanka 20 September 2020 10: 37
            +3
            Quote: Herrr
            And what do you think they [Romanians] did not lag behind the Germans in? You have, after all, literally:
            During the Second World War, their allies did not lag behind the Germans!
            And then there is a photo of Romanian IAR 80s. smile
            Did you mean that they did not lag behind the Germans in the design and manufacture of fighter-bombers? lol

            If on the fingers, both Finnish and Romanian crosses have nothing to do with Nazi symbols! lol
            The first as a symbol existed in the Finnish Air Force until March this year !!! So what is your last effort, ... and?
            1. Errr
              Errr 20 September 2020 18: 50
              +3
              AND? And ... And no crosses (this is if, of course, the swastika is considered a cross, which in itself is not indisputable) until March of this year on the aircraft of the Finnish Air Force was not important since April 1, 1945, when the blue swastika in a white circle on the fuselages and the wings were replaced by the white-blue-white circle that still exists today.
              And the emblem of the Finnish Air Force until the current 2020 was precisely the "politically incorrect" swastika surrounded by wings.
              And yet, yes, neither the monogram of King Mihai I, nor even more so the swastika (swasti in translation from Sanskrit is nothing more than a greeting, a wish of luck, prosperity) initially had absolutely nothing to do with Nazi symbolism, but these are completely different stories. smile
      2. Doliva63
        Doliva63 20 September 2020 17: 54
        +7
        Quote: Herrr
        Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
        During the Second World War, their allies did not lag behind the Germans!
        Finnish and Romanian satellites of Hitler!
        The Romanians in 1941-1944 did not paint on the fuselages "beams", but crosses formed from the monogram of King Mihai I, which is shown in the figure below.

        Reminiscent of a fig on 4 sides laughing
        1. Errr
          Errr 20 September 2020 18: 58
          +6
          The crown resembles a fig ... what Well, if you look at this subject philosophically, then this association is a fair amount of historical truth. laughing
          1. Doliva63
            Doliva63 21 September 2020 17: 38
            +2
            Quote: Herrr
            The crown resembles a fig ... what Well, if you look at this subject philosophically, then this association is a fair amount of historical truth. laughing

            Perhaps, in this I agree with Mihai drinks
    4. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
      Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 20 September 2020 14: 52
      +7
      Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
      It is interesting that the Finns subsequently completely switched to the "cross bar"!

      enough, sorry, rubbish something. In what "subsequent"?
      The Finnish swastika was established with the light hand of the Swede Erik von Rosen, who in March 1918 gave the Finns a "moran-solne", acquired at his own expense. This airplane was the beginning of the history of the Finnish Air Force, traditionally carrying the von Rosen swastika as an identification mark. Neither Hitler nor the Nazis were in sight, damn it, there was. And what does "balkenkreuz" have to do with it?
      1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
        Kote Pan Kokhanka 20 September 2020 15: 33
        -2
        Dear Paragraph Epitafievich Y, I'm talking about the same but down the branch!
        Regarding the Finnish Air Force beams in 1944, this is for the Finns.
        I re-present the photo:

        If this is not a bar cross, then I am a ballerina !!! laughing
        1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
          Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 20 September 2020 15: 53
          +6
          And what does this storm have to do with the Finns?
          It is clear that due to political correctness, this modern copy does not have a swastika on its tail.
        2. Errr
          Errr 20 September 2020 18: 17
          +8
          Dear Kote pane Kohanka (Vladislav), you, with perseverance worthy of better application, are squeezing a photo of the German "Storch" (Fieseler Fi 156 Storch) with Luftwaffe insignia for the second time, passing it off as Finnish. smile Although the Finns had as many as 2 of these machines in the LeR-1 regiment, they did not carry a single Balkenkreuz ("beam cross"). In the photo below you can see these planes (color models - models) with real Finnish identification marks.



          As you can see, on Finnish aircraft from 18.03.1918/1.04.1945/XNUMX to XNUMX/XNUMX/XNUMX, only a blue swastika against a white circle background was used as an identification mark and nothing more.
          1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
            Kote Pan Kokhanka 20 September 2020 20: 29
            +1
            In the encyclopedia "50 best fighters of the Second World War," I don't remember the author from memory, it is written that in the 44th the Finns, along with the swastika, used camouflage, quick identification signs and emblems of the Luftwaffe.
            For what I bought, I sell!
            1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
              Kote Pan Kokhanka 20 September 2020 20: 45
              0
              Finnish political correctness looks different! When a blue cross is painted on an airplane instead of a swastika.
              By the way, you have more than one photo of "Storch" 44 years old!
          2. Kote Pan Kokhanka
            Kote Pan Kokhanka 20 September 2020 21: 14
            -3
            Errr, especially for you!
            Photo from the Finnish Air Force archive!
            Bombers over the field, 2 July 1944. (Photo by SA-kuva):


            On the fuselage "cross bar", on the stabilizer "swastika"!
            1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
              Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 20 September 2020 22: 15
              +3
              Errr, especially for you!
              Photo from the Finnish Air Force archive!

              Stop being blunt already ...
              This "thing" at the Immola airfield has nothing to do with the Finnish Air Force! She is from SG3 (Schlachtgeschwader-3, attack aircraft) of the 1st Luftwaffe Air Fleet.
              Well, you really, sorry, stubborn ... laughing
            2. Errr
              Errr 20 September 2020 22: 23
              +5
              In your photo Focke-Wulf Fw 190. smile
              The Finns have never had a single such car. And the fact that under this picture is written Stuka dive-bombers fly over, Immola, July 2, 1944. # SA-kuva, from which one could conclude that this is Junkers Ju 87, aka "Stuka", aka "Lipsy" - so in fact not everything can be trusted ... "Junkers" cannot be confused with "Fokker" at all. Here is a photo of him for comparison.
              1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
                Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 20 September 2020 22: 46
                +3
                Immole was home to tactical reconnaissance squadrons 1./NAGr 5, II./JG 54 fighters and 1-2-3./SG 3 attack aircraft. This is a Luftwaffe with no options.
                1. Errr
                  Errr 20 September 2020 22: 56
                  +1
                  Obviously it was. Only Germans could be in the "German outfit" in Finland. smile
              2. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
                Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 20 September 2020 22: 59
                +3
                Yes, guilty, in the photo Kote - FW "20th white" from 4./JG 54. Here is Oswald Gado's "thing" ff from 1./SG 3 in the same place in Immal on July 2, 44th.
              3. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
                Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 21 September 2020 06: 57
                +1
                That's right - the pieces are at the top, fv on the ground.
      2. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 20 September 2020 16: 53
        +3
        Enough, sorry, rubbish something
        Less emotions, please, Alexander!
    5. pereselenec
      pereselenec 20 September 2020 17: 49
      +5
      Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
      It is interesting that the Finns subsequently completely switched to the "cross bar"!


      Learn the materiel.

      1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
        Kote Pan Kokhanka 20 September 2020 21: 18
        -3
        Here is a photo repeated!

        Read smart books, good authors! On the weekend I will come to the village and throw off the scanned page !!!
        1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
          Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 20 September 2020 22: 23
          +2
          Read smart books, good authors!


          Use your advice, dear. Read something about the history of the 1st Air Fleet. And especially about the locations of the assault squadrons. Maybe there will be no desire to carry a blizzard about Balkankreuz on Finnish planes.
          Again - this Ju-87 D-5 has nothing to do with the Finnish Air Force.
          That's it, period.
          You can bring sunflowers and fresh milk from the village, but this will not change anything. This "thing" belongs to the Luftwaffe.
          1. stalkerwalker
            stalkerwalker 20 September 2020 22: 44
            0
            Quote: Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
            Read smart books, good authors!


            Use your advice, dear. Read something about the history of the 1st Air Fleet. And especially about the locations of the assault squadrons. Maybe there will be no desire to carry a blizzard about Balkankreuz on Finnish planes.
            Again - this Ju-87 D-5 has nothing to do with the Finnish Air Force.
            That's it, period.
            You can bring sunflowers and fresh milk from the village, but this will not change anything. This "thing" belongs to the Luftwaffe.


            And this aircraft belongs to the Luftwaffe?
            1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
              Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 20 September 2020 22: 52
              +2
              what do you mean? Chel claims that aircraft with Luftwaffe insignia belonged to the Finnish Air Force. Or that the Finns put Luftwaffe OZ on their planes - the same game. You have Finnish bfs with Finnish symbols in your photo - what's wrong?
              1. stalkerwalker
                stalkerwalker 20 September 2020 23: 01
                0
                Yes so .. Maybe I will hit the sky ..
                repeat
            2. Kote Pan Kokhanka
              Kote Pan Kokhanka 20 September 2020 23: 01
              +1
              Alas, the photo did not open. hi
              1. stalkerwalker
                stalkerwalker 20 September 2020 23: 03
                0
                I'll insert another for you ...
                hi
    6. hohol95
      hohol95 20 September 2020 23: 56
      +4
      Eh, Vladislav! You missed the Hungarian air Honvedians !!!

      The Italians had a cross on the keel. But white.
  2. Krasnodar
    Krasnodar 20 September 2020 08: 29
    +7
    Richtofen plane?
    1. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave 20 September 2020 09: 48
      +9
      Exactly. The historical story says that having entered the service of an officer in the Uhlan regiment, Manfred could not become a dashing cavalryman, because he constantly fell from his horse.
      1. Krasnodar
        Krasnodar 20 September 2020 10: 16
        +8
        As a result, he became the Red Baron))
        1. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 20 September 2020 10: 44
          +7
          By the way, the "path to heaven" for E. Udet turned out to be more thorny.
          1. Krasnodar
            Krasnodar 20 September 2020 12: 39
            +7
            So he became the second ace after the Baron, serving in his squadron, and committed suicide in the 41st - he realized that the Luftwaffe would not be able to protect the Reich from the Anglo-Saxons and the war with the Red Army at the same time
            1. 3x3zsave
              3x3zsave 20 September 2020 12: 47
              +8
              There are different versions of the reasons for his suicide.
  3. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
    Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 20 September 2020 21: 06
    0
    ... Fokker fighter dr. 1 with different identification marks!

    Wow - a picture of a toy and a photo of a replica? Powerful. laughing
  • The leader of the Redskins
    The leader of the Redskins 20 September 2020 05: 52
    13
    We need to thank the author for the article, although it will not save one from the ignorant, who any images of crosses on equipment (well, except for red on an ambulance) automatically associate with Nazi Germany.
    1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 20 September 2020 08: 03
      +9
      I fully support! Thanks to Sergius !!!
      For some reason, my initial detailed comment was banned with gratitude. Although perhaps for the mention of Hitler and his henchmen.
      And so Sergey should think about continuing the cycle - symbols, images and inscriptions of the Second World War.
      I would gladly read about the emblems of "Dönitz's corsairs", Gereng's aces of diamonds, naked "women" of the allies and our domestic "greetings", including personally to Hitler!
      My grandfather rolled out that many were far from censorship. But we had time to paint three letters "and a specific address" on a 152mm round with chalk. Although the commanders "fought" for this, grandfather spoke mercilessly !!!
      1. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 20 September 2020 10: 58
        10
        naked "broads" allies
        They gave a "start in life" to a separate direction in the visual arts: "pinup", of which Uncle Kostya is a big fan. laughing
        1. Korsar4
          Korsar4 20 September 2020 11: 44
          +6
          "Now slides" (c).
          1. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave 20 September 2020 12: 05
            +7
            With this - to the true connoisseur of the genre, "Sea Cat"!
            1. Korsar4
              Korsar4 20 September 2020 13: 22
              +5
              What we are counting on.
              1. 3x3zsave
                3x3zsave 20 September 2020 13: 30
                +6
                I have an interesting selection somewhere in the rubble of hard drives, a pin-up drawing and a photograph of a model posing for a drawing. I will find, I will send
              2. Catfish
                Catfish 20 September 2020 14: 25
                12
                And how is it that the pilots of enemy fighters raised their hand in such a charm to shoot. laughing
                1. Korsar4
                  Korsar4 20 September 2020 14: 55
                  +5
                  This is what the rostra transformed into.
                2. Kote Pan Kokhanka
                  Kote Pan Kokhanka 20 September 2020 15: 23
                  +6
                  Quote: Sea Cat
                  And how is it that the pilots of enemy fighters raised their hand in such a charm to shoot. laughing

                  They entered from "through another door" !!! And blushed with embarrassment !!!
                  1. unknown
                    unknown 21 September 2020 22: 14
                    +1
                    They didn't blush at all.
                    The heroes of John Hersey's novel "He Who Loved War" had to make twenty-five combat missions, after which the war would end for them. But, the navigator of the crew calculated that no more than twenty-five percent of all crews of long-range bombers that were based in Great Britain could do this. The crew of the heroes of the novel, the "flying fortress" with the symbolic name "Body", was shot down on the last sortie.
          2. Catfish
            Catfish 20 September 2020 14: 18
            +9
            Of course, where without them ... smile
            1. Lexus
              Lexus 20 September 2020 17: 32
              +7
              Uncle Kostya, welcome! hi I could not pass by. If so - take my "bomb" in "your garden".repeat If I am not mistaken, with Avro Lancaster!

              1. Catfish
                Catfish 20 September 2020 18: 13
                +9
                Hi Aleksey! hi Yes, judging by the "face", this is the Avro 683 Lancaster.
                1. Lexus
                  Lexus 20 September 2020 18: 37
                  +6
                  I looked, and "kornesoski" got to your "sandbox". Obviously, another "star" Vlad does not give them rest. On the other branches, they went mad. They are wielding clouds. Apparently, they are preparing for winter.
                  1. Catfish
                    Catfish 20 September 2020 18: 38
                    +7
                    Besides the "spring exacerbation", there is also an autumn one. wassat laughing
                    1. Lexus
                      Lexus 20 September 2020 18: 44
                      +7
                      More like a pathological menopause. With complications of brain rudiments. They can no longer answer, only they poke at the buttons randomly. laughing
                      1. Catfish
                        Catfish 20 September 2020 18: 51
                        +5
                        They are still poking, but when the aggravation progresses to the extreme stage, the client will be sent to a fun house, and there you will not poke. angry laughing
                      2. Lexus
                        Lexus 20 September 2020 19: 02
                        +4
                        They were just released from there along the way. Or "cheburnet" failed. fellow
                      3. Kote Pan Kokhanka
                        Kote Pan Kokhanka 20 September 2020 21: 22
                        +4
                        Quote: lexus
                        I looked, and "kornesoski" got to your "sandbox". Obviously, another "star" Vlad does not give them rest. On the other branches, they went mad. They are wielding clouds. Apparently, they are preparing for winter.

                        Quote: Sea Cat
                        Besides the "spring exacerbation", there is also an autumn one. wassat laughing

                        Thanks for the kind word! I just now drew attention to the second star, it seems virtual, but "it" is nice !!!
                      4. Korsar4
                        Korsar4 20 September 2020 22: 04
                        +6
                        The main thing is not to start washing virtually. Suddenly like it.
                      5. Lexus
                        Lexus 20 September 2020 22: 47
                        +8
                        Sergei hi, sounds like an invitation to visit. winked drinks
                      6. Korsar4
                        Korsar4 20 September 2020 22: 51
                        +5
                        There are many interesting places to cross.

                        To be honest, my jobs are more accessible than a home den. But good people are always happy.
                      7. Lexus
                        Lexus 20 September 2020 22: 53
                        +6
                        I didn't want to write anymore today, but the fact that we communicate perfectly and understand each other perfectly, gives us every right to an "online party", quite real, without fake virtuality. To start. In addition, we already have at least two "battle groups" - St. Petersburg and Ryazan. By connecting the places of deployment, including the rest of the "accomplices," by straight lines, it is possible to display the "place of gathering" on the map and arrange there an "epicenter of debauchery". Why not? request
                      8. Korsar4
                        Korsar4 20 September 2020 23: 00
                        +4
                        I think this is where it goes. At least in one more place of my deployment - on chess sites, this is what happened.
                      9. Lexus
                        Lexus 20 September 2020 23: 18
                        +6
                        In moderation, "without fanaticism" - everything is useful. Alcohol and sports are no exception.
            2. Lexus
              Lexus 20 September 2020 23: 01
              +6
              Vlad hi, I see, some have removed their shameful "Mendel". Either their conscience is stuck (hard to believe), or we have shamed them (similarly). I think they understood that there is a wonderful team here, in which it is not accepted to give offense to others (more like the truth). Your first comment, almost always, serves as a detonator for everyone else, a signal for an exciting companionship. From the outside it is seen so. In the world of sports, this is called fair play.
            3. Kote Pan Kokhanka
              Kote Pan Kokhanka 22 September 2020 04: 14
              +2
              Thank. Sincerely!
              Although I have an “unsportsmanlike” advantage, in the form of a two-hour difference with Moscow time. repeat
              Good day!
            4. Korsar4
              Korsar4 22 September 2020 07: 12
              +2
              Do not worry. Siberians and the Far East have an even greater time reserve.
  • saygon66
    saygon66 21 September 2020 13: 26
    +3
    - Then, to the heap, and this lady:
    1. Catfish
      Catfish 21 September 2020 13: 31
      +3
      Sumptuously! "Russian furry Cossacks!" (FROM) laughing
    2. albert
      albert 21 September 2020 21: 57
      +2
      Quote: saygon66
      Then, to the heap, and this lady:

      There is better laughing
  • hohol95
    hohol95 21 September 2020 00: 07
    +5
    Ivan Danko (captain of the Moscow police) looked at such a disgrace and said - "Capitalism!"
    1. Catfish
      Catfish 21 September 2020 00: 29
      +6
      Rather, I would have thought that this is a normal outlet for the healthy emotions of young guys driven into the barracks by the war and risking their lives every day.
      1. hohol95
        hohol95 21 September 2020 00: 36
        +7
        Controversial statement. The Germans did not allow themselves of this kind. And the British ...
        Just the morale of the US Army demanded Coca-colu, a hamburger, and a half-naked girl.
        Otherwise, it was difficult and boring for them to fight. In my personal opinion!
        1. Catfish
          Catfish 21 September 2020 00: 48
          +4
          For the Germans, the Fuhrer was vigilant for morality, and the British are the British. And we had a "nakkurnaya" painting, though naked women were stabbed interspersed with portraits of leaders. laughing
          1. hohol95
            hohol95 21 September 2020 00: 54
            +5
            Let's leave these drawings to themselves and their descendants.
            The grandfathers drank Coca-colu and championed racial segregation.
            Grandchildren drink Pepsi and don't know what to do with BLM activists!
      2. hohol95
        hohol95 21 September 2020 00: 56
        +3
        In the skies of Korea, these drawings did not help them much!
        1. Catfish
          Catfish 21 September 2020 01: 07
          +3
          Well, in Korea, they completed their task - everything returned to where it began, to the 38th parallel. But in Vietnam they lost unambiguously, our "strategists" did not learn anything and climbed into Afghanistan.
          1. hohol95
            hohol95 21 September 2020 10: 51
            +4
            It seems that in Afghanistan, the main enemy of our soldiers and officers were not spooks.
            And gigantic flows of money from the Persian Gulf countries and Europe. Plus, the Chinese decided to do their bit. How many weapons have they delivered irreconcilable. I wonder what they paid for this weapon? Dollars or opium and heroin?
            The Vietnamese were not helped like that, and they were bombed much stronger than the Afghans. We didn't bomb the rear base of the dushmans in the form of Pakistan!
            And the Americans tried to embrace Laos and Kampuchea.
            It is not yet known what would have been the result of non-interference of the "Central Committee grandfathers" in the affairs of the DRV.
            The wave could all result in the revival of Basmachism and constant pressure on the Central Asian border of the USSR.
            1. Catfish
              Catfish 21 September 2020 12: 16
              +1
              It is not yet known what would have been the result of non-interference of the "Central Committee grandfathers" in the affairs of the DRV.
              The wave could all result in the revival of Basmachism and constant pressure on the Central Asian border of the USSR.

              DRV (Vietnam?) And Basmachi? I did not understand a little, or rather did not see the connection.
              As for Afgan, it doesn't matter who helped whom, it was just that it was impossible to climb there. It was enough to look at the history, religion, way of life and landscape of this country. Both the military and the Office were against the introduction of troops, but the "grandfathers" were seized with a thirst for activity and what happened happened.
            2. hohol95
              hohol95 21 September 2020 22: 48
              +2
              Instead of DRA I wrote DRV ...
              Wrong hi
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Catfish
    Catfish 20 September 2020 14: 14
    +5
    Actually, I prefer easel graphics more.
    1. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave 20 September 2020 14: 17
      +5
      And you spread the "naked women" exclusively "on the side" of the base instincts "Pane Kokhanka" !!! laughing
      1. Catfish
        Catfish 20 September 2020 14: 30
        +7
        And you spread the "naked women" exclusively "on the side" of the base instincts "Pane Kokhanka" !!!

        Well, from what? Don't you think the others are men? laughing
        1. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 20 September 2020 14: 45
          +7
          Well from what? tongue Simply, your dialogues with Kolya usually boil down to the following:
          "What's the use of being yourself
          Knowing no shame
          When fifteen women
          Are frolicking by the pond " laughing
          1. Catfish
            Catfish 20 September 2020 14: 48
            +5
            So it is Nikolai who regularly commemorates my pond with naked villagers, and I just answer him. request Although, of course, he himself is a sinner - I love girls. laughing
            1. 3x3zsave
              3x3zsave 20 September 2020 15: 05
              +5
              Who doesn't love them !!! good And Kolya, he is still a "passion-bearer"! laughing
              1. Catfish
                Catfish 20 September 2020 15: 19
                +5
                As there Rybin sang: "And who is not a womanizer, and who is not a womanizer, but the one who has never seen a woman ..." wink
                1. 3x3zsave
                  3x3zsave 20 September 2020 15: 22
                  +3
                  The lines are familiar, but who is Rybin?
                2. Catfish
                  Catfish 20 September 2020 15: 23
                  +4
                  The Dune group, Masha suggested it.
                3. 3x3zsave
                  3x3zsave 20 September 2020 15: 41
                  +3
                  That, which:
                  "Hello, face!
                  When did you become a face?
                  Do you remember the face
                  After all, you were called "Seryozha"? "?
                4. Catfish
                  Catfish 20 September 2020 15: 43
                  +3
                  Frankly, I don’t remember, we see both of these lines for the first time. request
                5. 3x3zsave
                  3x3zsave 20 September 2020 16: 08
                  +3
                  Well, God bless him ...
                6. Lexus
                  Lexus 20 September 2020 18: 20
                  +3
                  hi Here's to you, robyats, more from the "Dunovsky". wink

                7. 3x3zsave
                  3x3zsave 20 September 2020 18: 34
                  +3
                  Thank you, Lech! Youth breathed!
                8. Lexus
                  Lexus 20 September 2020 18: 47
                  +3
                  Anton, for a good person nothing is a pity! wink
                9. 3x3zsave
                  3x3zsave 20 September 2020 18: 59
                  +4
                  for a good person
                  This is the main mistake of all my comrades.
                10. Lexus
                  Lexus 20 September 2020 19: 06
                  +6
                  "If the booze cannot be prevented, then it must be led." (FROM) drinks
            2. Lexus
              Lexus 20 September 2020 23: 39
              +3
              It is regrettable that the "inveterate values" have not yet lost their "relevance" ...
        2. saygon66
          saygon66 21 September 2020 22: 03
          0

          - Borka is a womanizer!
  • Catfish
    Catfish 20 September 2020 14: 07
    +7
    The woman was not on Tibbets' plane, neither dressed nor naked. And so it was enough ...
    1. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave 20 September 2020 15: 19
      +4
      This is because Tibbets suffered from an "Oedipus complex".
      1. Catfish
        Catfish 20 September 2020 15: 21
        +5
        I don't know, but maybe he just loved his mother very much.
        1. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 20 September 2020 15: 25
          +3
          "Yu love mammy? Kill japans !!!"
          1. Catfish
            Catfish 20 September 2020 15: 30
            +4
            Do you think he knew exactly what he was throwing japam on his heads that day?
            1. 3x3zsave
              3x3zsave 20 September 2020 15: 50
              +3
              Of course I didn't. Yes, at that time, even the leaders of the "Manhattan Project" did not know.
              1. Lexus
                Lexus 20 September 2020 19: 12
                +4
                “Ignorance of the laws does not absolve from responsibility.” (C)

                I would not be surprised if it was after that departure that the word "gay" became a dirty word.
  • hohol95
    hohol95 20 September 2020 23: 59
    +2

    If you have not read such a book, I recommend it.
  • unknown
    unknown 21 September 2020 22: 04
    0
    One of the best, and perhaps the best foreign novel about the Second World War, "Who Loved War" by John Hersey, is about American pilots, the crew of a "flying fortress".
    There this theme, the theme of "fuselage painting" is also shown.
    The plane of the main characters, in addition to the fuselage image, had a corresponding name:
    "Body" (female).
  • cost
    cost 20 September 2020 06: 53
    10
    The first to use the black cross as an identification mark were the Germanic knights, this happened back in the Middle Ages during the era of the famous crusades. The black enamel Latin cross with a white enamel border became the official symbol of the Teutonic Order for many years. The knights of the order widely used the stylized image of a black cross on a white background on their shields, as well as on their cloaks, clothes and banners.

    In 1199, the Teutonic Order received the official right to be called a knightly order. Pope Innocent III granted the request of the trustees of the hospital "Teutonic Brothers of the Holy Virgin Mary in Jerusalem", gives them the right to take part in the war with the infidels. The order receives a charter and a coat of arms.

    The emblem of the Teutonic Order was a black cross on a silver (white) field. The knight brothers of the Order received the right to wear white cloaks with black crosses and shields with coats of arms against the background of the Order's cross

    reference: Dudik B. Des Hohen Deutschen Ritterordens Munz-Samlung in Wien. Wien, 1858. Neudruck als Queiien und Studien zur Geschichte des Deutschen Ordens 6, Bonn, 1966, S. 61.
    1. cost
      cost 20 September 2020 06: 59
      +8
      At the same time, the main tasks of the Teutonic Order were determined: the protection of the German knights, the treatment of the sick and the fight against the enemies of the Catholic Church.

      Hospital brothers in Akkon 1190-1198, dressed in clothes that did not differ in cut and color from the clothes of other members of the brotherhood. Brothers-priests, according to church prescriptions, wore closed clothes, like a cassock. For other brothers, the wearing of closed clothing may not have been prescribed by the church, but it was customary.
      The new status of the knightly order in the matter of clothing provided for six different classes for its members: brothers of knights, brothers of priests, other (anderen) brothers, half-brothers (hospital brothers), employees of the order, sisters of the order, and, finally, familiars - secular people. For practical reasons and following the example of other orders, the brothers who lived in the houses of the order were striving to introduce mostly uniform clothing. This follows from the provisions of the statutes (Rules). Oddly enough, the statutes do not contain any prescription for dressing sisters. For familiars, the statutes of the German Order in ch. 32 prescribed only: "They should wear a dress of church color, but with an incomplete cross."
      Half cross. Worn by half-brothers, gray cloaks, service brothers, sisters, witings familiars.
      1. cost
        cost 20 September 2020 07: 25
        +9
        The priestly brothers of the Order wore the same dress as the other members of the Order, but without the white cloaks. Pope Innocent IV in 1244 wished that the order priests should also wear white outerwear. “It will increase the honor and benefit of your Order if its clergy (clergy) are seen in the dress that is appropriate for worship and the honor of the spiritual position. Therefore, we want all of your priestly brothers to be distinguished by their dress from others. Therefore, by this decree we allow them to freely wear white robes (Talare) over another dress. " The order, which did not take advantage of this privilege, provided the order's priests with white cloaks, leaving black robes (Talar).

        On which the so-called German (Austrian cross) first appeared, which the armies of Germany and Austria-Hungary used as their military symbols in WWI. they differed from each other only in the length of the lower paw
        German Cross.

        das österreichische Kreuz

        links:
        Perlbach M. Die Statuten des Deutschen Ordens Nach den Ältesten handschriften. Halle, 1890, S. 52.
        Dudik B. Des Hohen Deutschen Ritterordens. S. 58.
        1. cost
          cost 20 September 2020 07: 39
          +8
          Cross with T-shaped ends. Apparently borrowed from the Jerusalem cross. Occurs on the large and small banners of the Supreme Master of the Order.

          And here is the same Jerusalem cross

          reference: Bakhtin A.P. "Symbols, insignia, clothing and military equipment of the German (Teutonic) Order"
          1. cost
            cost 20 September 2020 08: 13
            +7
            Curious fact The Jerusalem cross can be traced in modern Georgian symbolism
            Before being approved as an official one, this flag was used as a symbol by Mikhail Saakashvili's "United National Movement".

            The flag with five crosses - "Cross of Jerusalem" ("Jerusalem Cross"), "Cross of the Crusaders" is made in the form of five golden crosses, placed on a silver background. The flag, for the first time in history, was established in Jerusalem by the Count and Duke of Lower Lorraine and the Norman conqueror Godfried of Bouillon. He was one of the leaders of the First Crusade from 1096 to 1099. After the liberation of the Holy Land and the Holy Sepulcher from the yoke of the Saracens (Muslims), Gottfried was proclaimed the first ruler of Jerusalem․ According to him, he could not accept the golden crown where the savior was buried, that is, he did not consider himself worthy. Instead, Godfried assumed the title "Guardian and Protector of the Holy Sepulcher."
            The cross itself was taken from the coat of arms of Gottfried of Bouillon ․ Therefore, this very coat of arms with five crosses was chosen - golden crosses on a silver background. The cross of the Crusaders is often used on the veils on the altar. The large cross represents the symbol of Christ, but the four small ones represent the symbol of the 4 Apostles, the authors of the four Gospels, spreading the doctrine to all four cardinal directions.
            rice.Gottfried of Bouillon

            To this day, the Jerusalem cross is a symbol of the knightly Catholic order of the Holy Sepulcher in Jerusalem. Its headquarters are located in the Vatican.
            According to historical justice, only participants of the First Crusade (and subsequent campaigns) have the right to use the flag with five crosses as the state flag. List of countries (Georgia is not in this list) that took part in the First Crusade:
            1 Holy Roman Empire, 2 Genoa, 3 Lower Lorraine, 4 Provence, 5 Kingdom of France, 6 Blois, 7 Boulogne, 8 Flanders, 9 Puy-en-Velay, 10 Vermandois, 11 England, 12 Normandy, 13 Apulia, 14 Tarentum, 15 Byzantine Empire, 16 Cilician Armenia, Khachen principality of Armenia - (Arsakh)
            The Jerusalem cross was also used as the coat of arms of Cilician Armenia during the reign of the last king Levon VI.
            a photo. Portuguese miniature of the 1509th century, which depicts the King of Herald of Armenia (Cilician Armenia) - with five crosses between lions. O Livro do Armeiro Mor (Portugal - XNUMX)

            a photo.Nor Varaga Monastery (1224-1237) (Armenia)
            1. cost
              cost 20 September 2020 08: 19
              +8
              This is the historical flag of David the Builder - quite a worthy flag for Georgia, and not a stolen plagiarism

              And this is the historical Georgian flag - Flag of Queen Tamara

              But Mishiko's ambitions go through the roof. Even national traditions do not care
              1. Okolotochny
                Okolotochny 21 September 2020 14: 14
                -2
                Red and black?
            2. 3x3zsave
              3x3zsave 20 September 2020 09: 03
              +2
              According to him, he could not accept the golden crown where the savior was buried, that is, he did not consider himself worthy.
              Bloody cruel and terribly humble! wassat
              1. Lexus
                Lexus 20 September 2020 23: 52
                +2
                "Speechwriters" got it right. And it happens with noneshniy, our "kander". wassat
    2. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave 20 September 2020 08: 22
      +4
      My compliments, Dmitry!
      It was probably worth mentioning that the second image shows the symbols of the Grand Master of the Teutonic Order.
      1. cost
        cost 20 September 2020 08: 26
        +2
        Absolutely sure
        1. Captain45
          Captain45 20 September 2020 20: 36
          +3
          Quote: Rich
          Absolutely sure

          Dmitry, you already have comments on two articles about heraldry, do me a favor - write an article on the topic. Very curious hi
          1. cost
            cost 20 September 2020 20: 51
            +2
            I need an article on heraldry? Yes, you are Yuri, you are laughing.
            This is the theme of Artyom, Mikhail and Anton. Or Doliva63 to persuade. And I can't get through here with my knowledge.
            1. Captain45
              Captain45 20 September 2020 20: 53
              +1
              Quote: Rich
              This is the theme of Artyom, Mikhail and Anton. Or Doliva63 to persuade. And I can't get through here with my knowledge.

              Try it, your eyes are afraid, but your hands do wink
    3. saygon66
      saygon66 21 September 2020 13: 46
      +1
      - The lower picture shows a later version of the cross - from 1229 ... when the Order was granted sovereignty over the lands of East Prussia.
  • KVU-NSVD
    KVU-NSVD 20 September 2020 07: 35
    +2
    Nowadays, the cross remains the identification mark and the main emblem of the Bundeswehr, but no longer the Balkankreuz.
    The new emblem of the armed forces of the Federal Republic of Germany is a clawed, or Templar, black cross,
    Horseradish radish is not sweeter. Associations cause the same. Ukrainian Natsiks also have a lot of stylized swastikas and for every excuse about ancient symbols ..
    1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 20 September 2020 08: 59
      +9
      The cross is an ancient symbol, it was present on emblems and flags before revolutionary Russia, it is still there today! Andreevsky moisture of the Russian Navy, its jack, the flag of the border troops of the FSB, etc.
      Moreover, there are crosses on the coat of arms of the Russian Federation! Four if I'm not mistaken! One for power, three are crowned with imperial crowns !!!
      1. cost
        cost 20 September 2020 09: 10
        +5
        Good day Vlad
        Four if I'm not mistaken! One for power, three are crowned with imperial crowns !!!

        And the fifth on the scepter
        1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
          Kote Pan Kokhanka 20 September 2020 09: 38
          +7
          Quote: Rich
          Good day Vlad
          Four if I'm not mistaken! One for power, three are crowned with imperial crowns !!!

          And the fifth on the scepter

          Yes Dmitry, that's right - five!
      2. KVU-NSVD
        KVU-NSVD 20 September 2020 09: 14
        0
        Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
        The cross is an ancient symbol,

        I do not argue .. The swastika too, but thanks to fascism has now acquired a completely different meaning and meaning. And if the modern emblem of the Bundeswehr causes direct associations with the emblem of the Wehrmacht, then this is no longer about the meaning of the symbol of the cross.
        1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
          Kote Pan Kokhanka 20 September 2020 09: 42
          +8
          In order to think.
          National Guard flag!
          1. KVU-NSVD
            KVU-NSVD 20 September 2020 09: 50
            0
            Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
            In order to think.
            National Guard flag!

            On the flag of the Russian Guard, I have nothing to associate with fascism and the Wehrmacht.
            1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
              Kote Pan Kokhanka 20 September 2020 10: 11
              +8
              I'm talking about the vertical "grosskreutz" on the flag, Similar in the modern Bundeswehr "! Although historically they are different, just like the Blue symbols on the fuselages of the Finns! The Nazis screwed up a lot.
              1. bubalik
                bubalik 20 September 2020 10: 21
                +6
                hi
                grosskreutse
                so he is not only in the National Guard.

                FSO
                1. Okolotochny
                  Okolotochny 21 September 2020 14: 16
                  -2
                  The border guards seem to have this too, only green.
              2. KVU-NSVD
                KVU-NSVD 20 September 2020 10: 43
                +2
                Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
                I'm talking about vertical "grosskreutz"

                Vladislav, I understand what you mean. But don't you understand what I am talking about? I say that the emblem of the Bundeswehr in its style and manner of application is very similar to the emblem of the Wehrmacht. And no need to talk about different types of crosses - an ordinary person is far from this and will not catch the difference between the heraldic features of these crosses.
                The Nazis screwed up a lot.
                yes ..
                1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
                  Kote Pan Kokhanka 20 September 2020 10: 47
                  +6
                  On the camouflage style of the emblem, I completely agree!
                  However, I am "annoyed" by innovations with the application of our stars to the technique of ceremonial calculations. Why compose - a red star with gold or white edging. No, we are "perverted" !!!
                  1. KVU-NSVD
                    KVU-NSVD 20 September 2020 10: 53
                    +4
                    Quote: Kote Pan Kokhanka
                    On the camouflage style of the emblem, I completely agree!
                    However, I am "annoyed" by innovations with the application of our stars to the technique of ceremonial calculations. Why compose - a red star with gold or white edging. No, we are "perverted" !!!

                    Unfortunately, we have enough "creative enhancers". But what is even sadder is that there are also enough political cowards who are afraid of Soviet symbols at official events and disguise or "cut" them. The top of such cowardice is the drapery of the mausoleum. And such cowardice hammered into the minds of young people then leads to tacit compromise in the demolition of monuments and rewriting of history.
          2. cost
            cost 20 September 2020 10: 50
            +4
            Vlad hi
            This is the standard standard of the RI Life Guards Regiments, adopted in 1813. The banners of individual regiments differed from each other only in the color of the paws of the cross. The red paws belonged to the Life Guards Preobrazhensky Regiment, but, for example, the standard of the Izmailovsky Regiment

            But Volynsky

            Here is an explanatory pic. from the Russian "Military Encyclopedia" Sytin 1915

            For the Rosgvardia standard, they apparently took the standard system of the RI Life Guard as a sample
            1. saygon66
              saygon66 21 September 2020 14: 14
              +1
              - "For the exploits at Kulm"! Then it's worth remembering the Kulmsky kost!
        2. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
          Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 21 September 2020 07: 18
          +1
          ... but now it has acquired a completely different meaning thanks to fascism

          Nazism then.
          The symbol of Italian fascism (until 1944) is the fascia, not crosses. By the way, the fascia is present on the coat of arms of the FSSP of the Russian Federation, but this does not bother anyone)
          1. saygon66
            saygon66 21 September 2020 14: 19
            +2
            - Fascia - since the days of the Roman Empire, a symbol lictorsperforming the functions of military justice ...

            - From fascia (fascin) the word fascism comes from.
            1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
              Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 21 September 2020 15: 23
              +1
              ... Fascia - since the days of the Roman Empire,

              It doesn't matter - the swastika didn't symbolize anything like that for three thousand years, until one corporal made a sketch of the symbol of his party)
              1. saygon66
                saygon66 21 September 2020 15: 50
                +1
                - Not quite so ... The swastika was used by various nationalist movements in Germany long before a certain artist rose to power ...
                - S., in the form and color scheme that we know, was proposed as a symbol of the German Workers' Party in 1919 by a certain Friedrich Kron, a member of the Teutonic Order and the Thule Society ... Hitler only asked to make some changes to the drawing, in particular - turn the horns the other way ...
                1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
                  Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 21 September 2020 15: 58
                  +1
                  This is already particular)
        3. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
          Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 21 September 2020 15: 41
          +1
          Quote: KVU-NSVD
          And if the modern emblem of the Bundeswehr causes direct associations with the emblem of the Wehrmacht.

          And, are these guys who, even in the Rorschach tests, are ready to see Hitler's mustache and smoke from Buchenwald's chimneys and demand to ban the sale of hobbyist soldiers in Wehrmacht uniforms?
          This problem is solved with medication. Or psychotherapy.
          1. KVU-NSVD
            KVU-NSVD 21 September 2020 15: 58
            +1
            Quote: Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
            And, are these guys who, even in the Rorschach tests, are ready to see Hitler's mustache and smoke from Buchenwald's chimneys and demand to ban the sale of hobbyist soldiers in Wehrmacht uniforms?
            This problem is solved with medication. Or psychotherapy.

            You are like a botanist who explains to students the difference between a zygote and a homozygote. I was told from childhood that the Nazis are bastards and they burned and trampled our land. And after that do you think that the explanation about the bundle of rods for me will be a direct revelation about the difference between fascism and Nazism? Nazis and fascists, in my understanding, are one and the same Mr. still in business and carefully pickled for the future
            1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
              Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 21 September 2020 16: 27
              +1
              Quote: KVU-NSVD
              And after that you think

              Yes, I don’t think anything about you) I didn’t start this thoughtful empty story about symbols, associations and idiosyncrasy for crosses.
      3. Errr
        Errr 20 September 2020 22: 47
        +3
        The most interesting thing here is that the eagle that is on the scepter in the eagle's right paw also has a scepter in its right paw, surmounted by an eagle with a scepter in its right paw ... Etc. etc. In general, there are countless crosses on the Russian coat of arms. smile
        1. Reviews
          Reviews 21 September 2020 11: 22
          +2
          Quote: Herrr
          The most interesting thing here is that the eagle that is on the scepter in the eagle's right paw also has a scepter in its right paw, surmounted by an eagle with a scepter in its right paw ... Etc. etc. In general, there are countless crosses on the Russian coat of arms. smile

          Fractal ...
    2. cost
      cost 20 September 2020 11: 59
      +3
      The new emblem of the armed forces of the Federal Republic of Germany is a clawed, or Templar, black cross,

      Taiplerian cross - Templi crucis of a slightly different shape - it is eight-pointed



      for comparison Teuton and Templar

      The knights of the temple wore a red cross. Black Templi crucis was only owned by the Grand Masters of the Order
      Jacques de molay
      1. cost
        cost 20 September 2020 12: 02
        +3
        Templar artifacts with Templi crucis preserved to our time






        1. cost
          cost 20 September 2020 12: 04
          +1
          Templar artifacts from Templi crucis that have survived to our time (continued)


          1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
            Kote Pan Kokhanka 20 September 2020 13: 21
            +2
            Dear Dmitry, I repeat once again: Cross, Star, Circle are the most ancient symbols !!!
            Including the "swastika"! I think our ancestors - the creators of the pottery "Corded Ware, Andrianovskaya, logging and all other cultures", revolve in their burials - looking what the "descendants" have done !!!
            The most interesting thing, in childhood (apparently I personally had such a psychological block), that I sincerely believed that our banners of the war of 1812 depicted the scythe Andrew's cross. In the 90s it was a shock for me to find out the truth !!!
            1. cost
              cost 20 September 2020 14: 38
              +2
              Dear Dmitry, I repeat once again: Cross, Star, Circle are the most ancient symbols !!!
              Including the "swastika"!

              Vladislav, do I mind? I did not seem to write a word against. Is it for me?
        2. The comment was deleted.
      2. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 20 September 2020 13: 02
        +5
        Dmitry, in the second photo, is the "Maltese Cross" of the Order of the Hospitallers.
        1. cost
          cost 20 September 2020 13: 08
          +2
          Got the wrong picture, Anton
          It's a pity I can't fix it anymore
          1. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave 20 September 2020 13: 13
            +6
            It happens. In the second photo below, the official coat of arms of the Order of the Temple.
            1. cost
              cost 20 September 2020 14: 47
              +2
              And below it are the tombs of the knights at Temple and Temple Church in London.
              here is the top view


              Tombstone of Lord De Ros. On the left side - a broad sword, on the shield - a carved image of three water lilies

              Headstone of William Marshal

              1. 3x3zsave
                3x3zsave 20 September 2020 15: 01
                +2
                The second photo is a very interesting effigia, with crossed legs. This is the first time I see this!
                1. cost
                  cost 20 September 2020 15: 22
                  0
                  but still

                  According to the Templar historian Charles J. Addison, it is possible that the cross-legged figures in the Temple and Temple churches were placed there in memory of the worldly warriors who entered into an alliance with the Templars and bequeathed themselves to be buried in their cemetery.
                  Illustration from Charles J. Addison's The History of the Knights Templar, Temple and Temple Churches. 1843 "
                  1. 3x3zsave
                    3x3zsave 20 September 2020 15: 31
                    +3
                    Very interesting! It is worth Shpakovsky, a great fan of effigies, to call.
                  2. cost
                    cost 20 September 2020 15: 37
                    +3
                    William Marshal is generally an interesting uncle, he was not a Templar, but he was a fairly famous crusader.
                    Coat of arms of William Marshal, 2nd Earl of Pembroke Photo from the Internet

                    Edmund Rich, Archbishop of Canterbury, reconciles Gilbert Marshal, 4th Earl of Pembroke, and King Henry III. Miniature from "History of England" by Matthew Paris

                    In 1235 in Berick, he married the Scottish princess Marjorie, daughter of King William I of Scotland, whom Matthew of Paris describes as “the fairest of maidens,” and received a rich dowry for her. However, the marriage remained childless. At the same time, by an unknown mistress, he had a daughter, Isabella. "(Charles J. Addison, A History of the Knights Templar, Temple and Temple Churches. 1843")
                    Knightly duel between William Marshal and Baudouin de Guinne. Miniature from the "Big Chronicle" by Matthew Paris, XIII century

                    Death of Gilbert Marshal during the tournament. Thirteenth century miniature
              2. Undecim
                Undecim 20 September 2020 21: 41
                +3
                Temple and Temple churches in London.
                Why Temple and Temple? The British call it Temple Church.
  • bubalik
    bubalik 20 September 2020 09: 48
    +4
    the uniform size of the balkenkreuz is adopted: 25 centimeters in height
    ,,, and the dimensions are accurate? Something is doubtful No. You can't see such an identification mark up close, let alone in battle.
    1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 20 September 2020 10: 22
      +4
      Therefore, in the early days of the war, the Germans and their allies began to invent various ways of quickly identifying BTTs, ships and tanks.
      The most famous from the films is the pulling of the "Nazi flag" on the engine compartment of tanks. Circles of red or green were painted on the towers of surface ships. In aviation on the eastern front, yellow stripes on the fuselages have taken root.

      Finns

      Hungarians

      Following them, this technique was repeated by the Americans in the Korean War.

      F-86F
      1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
        Kote Pan Kokhanka 20 September 2020 10: 26
        +6
        Ours preferred "white stripes" and "symbols"
      2. saygon66
        saygon66 21 September 2020 14: 02
        +2
        - To be recognized - so to be recognized!
  • iouris
    iouris 20 September 2020 11: 03
    -5
    The Order and the Reich did not "exist", but exist, and continue the "great game". From "our side" the organization entered the game, which at different times was called the Cheka, the OGPU ... If someone does not understand, then the borders of the Reich are expanding. Hello! Expanding. Of course, this is not the end yet, but for now we are in the position of the cowboy that the Indians are chasing and whose inner voice prompts: "This is not the end, stop the horse ..."
    1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
      Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 20 September 2020 16: 05
      +2
      Why are you doing this?
      1. Okolotochny
        Okolotochny 21 September 2020 14: 22
        -2
        Why are you doing this?

        good
  • BAI
    BAI 20 September 2020 22: 27
    +5
    Knights of the Teutonic Order

    It seems that they have already agreed that there were no horns on the helmet of the knights of the Teutonic Order. Horns are from "Alexander Nevsky" by Eisenstein (film) or Merinov (caricature)
  • Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
    Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 21 September 2020 19: 17
    +2
    Tanks! ... huge ... with black ribs! ...

    (Private Rumbled, "War as War")