Military Review

Rare earth metals production: Russia is looking for ways to solve problems

185

Last week it was reported that an investment project for the production of rare earth metals, as well as titanium dioxide, is starting in the Murmansk region. By and large, she undeservedly went unnoticed. Basically, news interested only narrow specialists and local residents.


The Arkmineral company, which will implement the project in the process of developing the Afrikand deposit of perovskite-titanomagnetite ores, considers this event very important for the whole country. After all, the project, in case of its successful implementation, is one of the important steps to bring Russia into the list of the world's leading manufacturers of high-tech materials, and will also significantly contribute to increasing its defense capability.

Rare earth metals in the defense industry


A group of 17 elements of the periodic table belongs to rare earth metals (REM). Most of them are unknown to the common man in the street, but a number of high-tech industries, including defense, cannot do without them. They are needed for the production of various types of electronics, the creation of modern models of military equipment and much more.

Several examples of the use of rare earth metals.

Scandium is indispensable for the production of elements of aerospace technology. Yttrium is used in the creation of high-temperature superconductors, as well as in the manufacture of guidance devices for aviation... Lanthanum is used to create optical devices, as well as to manufacture battery electrodes. Cerium is most commonly used as a polishing powder.

Europium and terbium are excellent phosphors. Praseodymium, neodymium, samarium and gadolinium are used for the manufacture of magnets used in rocketry and spacecraft. These metals are also used to create lasers. Laser technology often requires ytterbium, dysprosium, holmium, and erbium.

Rare earth metals production: Russia is looking for ways to solve problems


China is the world leader in the production of rare earth metals


China is considered the largest manufacturer of computers, gadgets and electronics. This is due not only to the significant successes of the Chinese industry, but also to the presence of the world's largest reserves of rare earth metals - 37 percent of the world's total. At the same time, China's share in the world production of these materials is 63 percent. At the same time, the Celestial Empire is trying to sell them not as raw materials, but in the form of finished products.

The rest of the countries do not even come close to the Chinese indicators. If we do not take into account the PRC, the USA, India and Russia can be called the major producers of rare earth metals. RF ranks fourth in the world.

What is being done in Russia


The situation in Russia with the production of rare earth metals requires taking measures to correct it.

The industry relies on a single field - the Lovozerskoye field in the Murmansk region.

According to the latest data, the total reserves of rare earth metals in Russia are 12 million tons, that is, 10 percent of the world's total. True, according to data from the US Geological Survey for the past year, the share of the Russian Federation in the world production of these materials is only 1,3 percent. This is not enough for domestic needs, so we get rare earth metals from China. At the same time, the raw materials mined in Russia are mostly exported.

Over the past year, the domestic industry's demand for separated rare earth metal oxides was 1100 tons, while the production volume was only 250 tons.

But the government sees the need to correct the situation, as the Deputy Minister of Industry and Trade of our country Aleksey Bezprozvannykh spoke about a month ago.

Over the next five years, Russia plans to weaken its dependence on imports of rare earth metals, and then fully meet its domestic needs with its own raw materials.

Further, there is an even more ambitious task - by 2030 to take the second place after China in terms of the production of rare earth metals, bringing this figure to 10 percent of the global volume.



Growth plans are real


At first glance, it seems that these plans are too ambitious, but their implementation, in fact, is quite realistic. Moreover, it is long overdue to remove the Russian defense industry from the critical dependence on imports, because this is a direct threat to our security.

It will take about $ XNUMX billion to bring the industry out of hibernation.

The first steps are being taken. Since January of this year, the tax on the extraction of rare metals, which previously stood at 8 percent, has been reduced to 4,8%. In addition, other benefits have been introduced for mining and processing companies.

It is also planned to develop Russia's largest Yakut Tomtor deposit of rare earth metals and the Zashikhinsky deposit in Transbaikalia. Tomtor will start mining ore in 2025. Also in the Moscow region, it is planned to launch an enterprise for the separation of rare earth metals extracted from waste of mineral fertilizers.

A hydrometallurgical plant capable of processing 160 thousand tons of ore will be launched in Transbaikalia. It will produce ferroniobium for the metallurgical industry, a concentrate of superheavy rare earth metals for the electronic and nuclear industries. In addition, the plant will produce praseodymium and neodymium for ultra-high power magnets.

All this shows that Russia is serious about correcting the situation and bringing the production of rare earth metals to a decent level, being in search of a solution to the problems. For this, Russia has everything it needs. The main thing is not to stop half-way, as it often happens, and then start counting the missed opportunities and wasted money.
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  1. Victor_B
    Victor_B 18 September 2020 06: 30
    12
    In my opinion, China produces 80% of rare earths.
    The whole world depends on them.
    So, we need to establish our own production.
    1. nnm
      nnm 18 September 2020 06: 40
      +5
      But he also owns 47% of their deposits. All CIS countries account for about 17%.
      1. Boris ⁣ Shaver
        Boris ⁣ Shaver 18 September 2020 06: 57
        +8
        Quote: nnm
        But he also owns 47% of their deposits.

        The numbers are called different. From 23.
        But not deposits, but reserves. Moreover, proven reserves.
        1. nnm
          nnm 18 September 2020 07: 01
          17
          Well it is clear that it is explored. And here again the question arises about the state of geological exploration, which the state has long thrown off its shoulders.
          1. hrych
            hrych 18 September 2020 07: 32
            +9
            She didn't drop anything. It is financed both from the budget and by private investors, mainly the same state-owned companies. In general, about 40 billion rubles are invested annually. There is a downside. This is a very dirty production and is left to the Chinese because of their unwillingness to poison their nature. Also, for some it will be a surprise that not only Russia trades raw materials with China, but also receives raw materials from it.
            1. nnm
              nnm 18 September 2020 07: 58
              48
              Quote: hrych
              She didn't drop anything.

              I am reporting. The entire budget of Rosgeology is slightly more than 20 billion rubles.
              The cost of work on one exploration well alone is $ 1-8 million. That is - 10 million rubles! How many wells can Geological Prospect develop in a year? That's right -752 !!!! Hasn't it "dropped" yet? Ok, let's move on ... do you know the percentage of state orders NOT completed by Rosgeologia over the past 27 years due to lack of funding? If you don’t know, I’ll tell you - 5 !!!!!% of government orders were not fulfilled due to lack of funds.
              Move on. About the fact that:
              and private investors

              1. whoever would invest it in the investment program in normal amounts.
              2. And why do they need it in general? Why spend money if Rosgeologia transfers data to Rosnedra, which, in violation of the provisions of the Constitution, but fulfilling the law "on subsoil", is obliged to put up new sites for auction, where private traders will calmly take them for themselves without spending a ruble on exploration.
              3. Why do private companies need this if, according to the law on subsoil, they will have to transfer the exploration data itself to Rosnedra and will be a regular participant at the auction, like other others? Why on earth would they invest in something they might not get? This is what happens sometimes in practice.
              Quote: hrych
              This is a very dirty production and is left to the Chinese because of their unwillingness to poison their nature.

              I beg of you!!! Business is concerned about ecology! How to burn associated gas, fill the Arctic with fuel oil, do hydraulic fracturing, etc. - no one worries, but here, well, I don't want to worry about the environment.

              PS I almost forgot - recall the response of the Ministry of Finance to Rosgeologia's request for additional capitalization by 25 billion rubles to replace equipment?
              1. hrych
                hrych 18 September 2020 08: 04
                -23 qualifying.
                And you should drill all the holes. Leave the future generations of bowels. The still Soviet geological exploration map is enough to develop resources for decades to come.
                1. nnm
                  nnm 18 September 2020 08: 06
                  27
                  Get it right - it's not about drilling holes. The USSR drilled them much more. The question is that it is necessary to stop driving raw materials abroad, and to create a full cycle - from geological exploration to production. And the production of not just methane, but chemical products, etc.
                  1. hrych
                    hrych 18 September 2020 08: 13
                    -12 qualifying.
                    And what's that? Few?

                    Russia also ranks first in the world in the export of fertilizers. Why do you think in imposed stereotypes?
                    1. nnm
                      nnm 18 September 2020 08: 20
                      28
                      Fertilizer production was created from scratch, right?)))) USSR, 86 - 28,86 million tons, USA - 19,95 million tons. Apparently, this is from scratch, right?
                      1. hrych
                        hrych 18 September 2020 08: 27
                        -10 qualifying.
                        Of course not, but there has been an update in 30 years. The chemical industry requires constant replacement of units due to aggressive material. But the video essay is about new refineries from scratch. Russia is already among the world leaders in oil production; it fully provides itself with oil, as well as with oil refined products. The surplus goes abroad, and now the export of processed products is also sharply increasing. What problems? People are working. Or criticism for the sake of criticism? It was the Bolsheviks who began to pull pipes to the west, and you sew for their citizens, not gas. Moreover, they could not make pipes of large diameter, and they were taken in the west. It was the Bolsheviks who drove crude oil to the west and after the dumping of the Arabians sank in the economy and gobbled up the party's gold for American wheat. Or not?
                      2. Alf
                        Alf 18 September 2020 11: 32
                        10
                        Quote: hrych
                        completely provides itself with oil, as well as with oil refined products

                        So why are the prices for gas so jumping?
                        Quote: hrych
                        It was the Bolsheviks who began to pull pipes to the west, and you sew for their citizens, not gas.

                        And how much has it been reduced in 20 years?
                        Quote: hrych
                        and gobbled up the party gold for American wheat.

                        Ask the company Krill about the gold of the party, it will tell you where the gold of the party REALLY went. And also ask the current government where the report of this company provided to it went.
                      3. Lexus
                        Lexus 18 September 2020 14: 08
                        +5
                        Vasily, welcome! hi

                        So why are the prices for gas so jumping?

                        Their lice are a nightmare. And "wooden", behold, "sawflies" constantly "sharpen".

                        Ask the company Krill about the gold of the party ... And also ask the current government where the report of this company provided to it went.

                        "Mischi ate", as in the joke. They even have a corresponding logo.
                        "Brood" and today is growing tirelessly, but scattering around the World.
                      4. Alf
                        Alf 18 September 2020 14: 23
                        +2
                        Quote: lexus
                        Vasily, welcome!

                        Ave, Lexus!
                      5. Alf
                        Alf 18 September 2020 14: 51
                        +5
                        Quote: Alf

                        ©

                        Look, Alexey! Even for saying hello to you, someone has already slapped a minus. I go crazy with such, apparently, again someone is breathing unevenly towards me.
              2. antivirus
                antivirus 18 September 2020 09: 02
                +2
                this is a reason to put up another (preferably several) monument to SMKirov, at least in Murmansk or the region.
              3. tatarin1972
                tatarin1972 18 September 2020 13: 17
                +2
                In my youth, he stood in Kirovsk.
              4. not main
                not main 19 September 2020 01: 28
                +2
                Quote: tatarin1972
                In my youth, he stood in Kirovsk.

                Still worth it! In Petrozavodsk the square is called Kirovskaya!
              5. tatarin1972
                tatarin1972 19 September 2020 01: 33
                +2
                I know, I live there, in Petrozavodsk. The conversation went over the Murmansk region.
              6. not main
                not main 19 September 2020 01: 43
                +2
                Quote: tatarin1972
                I know, I live there, in Petrozavodsk. The conversation went over the Murmansk region.

                Sorry! For some reason I thought that about Kirov ...
      2. blackice
        blackice 19 September 2020 06: 50
        +5
        I suggest not to argue with the bastard.
        The person draws information directly from the Kremlin. Therefore, either the komunyaki or the lazy crying drunks of Russia are to blame.
        In fact, according to information "from there", there is complete harmony in the country, people are happy (with the exception of some drunks, but there are few of them), salaries in the country are the highest (even Europeans envy us), and our prices are the lowest.
        And in general, before the current government, only galoshes were produced in the country.
        Even "Himself" said it.
  • Boris ⁣ Shaver
    Boris ⁣ Shaver 18 September 2020 08: 26
    +1
    Quote: hrych
    The Soviet geological exploration map is enough

    Even two hundred thousandths the entire territory is not covered. And Americans with fat 3d models of the whole country make
  • tatarin1972
    tatarin1972 18 September 2020 13: 15
    +5
    Are you familiar with geological exploration ?! I must say right away that I graduated from mining, though not geological, I am a miner. Do you think you found it? Eh, no, this is just the beginning of the work. It is necessary to accurately deduce the boundaries of the ore body, to analyze the concentration of the useful component by the depth of occurrence, by the enclosing rocks. And much more.
  • Lynx33
    Lynx33 18 September 2020 18: 31
    -4
    Silly logic, with the development of science, resources will no longer be required. Substance and energy are different aggregate states of the same substance, it is enough to learn (or rather greatly reduce the cost and simplify) the process of converting matter into energy and energy into matter. This now requires a particle accelerator ...
    1. Alf
      Alf 18 September 2020 20: 08
      +7
      Quote: Lynx33
      Silly logic, with the development of science, resources will no longer be required.

      Will the TV, laptop, plane, and pants be made of energy or minerals?
      1. Lynx33
        Lynx33 18 September 2020 21: 49
        -5
        I repeat once again, minerals are needed only for a short period of development, given the rapid development of science, neither a TV nor a laptop will be needed soon, you will watch a movie right in your head, there will be no external bells and whistles ...
        1. Alf
          Alf 18 September 2020 22: 09
          +8
          Quote: Lynx33
          you will watch a movie right in your head,

          Something tells me that you are already watching. Just do not forget to take a pill at night.
          Quote: Lynx33
          I repeat once again, minerals are needed only for a short period of development,

          Already two thousand years are needed. How many thousands of years will they not be needed?
          Quote: Lynx33
          converting matter into energy

          And what is matter? Not minerals? Where does it come from?
        2. Lexus
          Lexus 18 September 2020 23: 31
          +8
          Where does it come from?

          Namolit. Or from the "pipe" will blow. Both are # unstable.
      2. Boris ⁣ Shaver
        Boris ⁣ Shaver 18 September 2020 22: 21
        +3
        Quote: Lynx33
        the rapid development of science

        It must be remembered that science develops rapidly only over short, in historical terms, periods of time. For science, then technology is followed for some time.
        Read the same Kuhn with his "scientific revolutions" and "normal science" developing within the same paradigm.
        What am I for. One should not think that the rates of development of science and technology set by the 20th century will persist for any length of time. There were breakthroughs, there was development on their basis. Then you will have to wait for new breakthroughs. Thus, it is still unknown what will happen first: resources will run out, or humanity will learn to live practically without them. In any case, this is not a question of the near future.
      3. tatarin1972
        tatarin1972 19 September 2020 01: 50
        +1
        He is running far ahead, for the present what will you do without resources ???
  • hydrox
    hydrox 18 September 2020 10: 29
    0
    Quote: nnm
    The cost of work on one exploration well alone is $ 1-8 million. That is - 10 million rubles!

    No need to lie, I give a link to a quote from a real document:
    https://www.petroleumengineers.ru/node/1569
    "... 1227546 rubles. (The figure is taken from the working project, therefore such accuracy) - Exploration well (re-installation with dismantling + drilling, testing, etc.), depth 3100, YNAO ..."; those. lied 376 times, lol
    Everything is in the liberal canons: "If we sell raw materials, we get money, if there is money, we will buy EVERYTHING !!!"
    On such a message we have already reached the pants with patches ... sad
    1. nnm
      nnm 18 September 2020 11: 08
      +8
      Dear colleague, you are a little confused - you quote the cost of drilling a COMPLETED well, not an EXPLORATION well with a confirmed debit. That is, to put it simply, you provided data on how much a well costs when it has already been bored and you know where to drill. And for exploration, not only is a huge amount of research required before exploration wells, but also in order to poke into the place where the COMPLETED well will be, the devil knows how many exploration wells are to be stuck.
      Therefore, let's be a little more relaxed with personal assessments. We are with you on a serious resource, not on a Ukrainian site.
      And since you are just copying one comment from the site whose address you gave, then take the trouble to lower your eyes to the following - where they ridiculed this nonsense with the cost of intelligence just under 0. And stop copying other people's words from the forums (!!!) only selectively.
      Sincerely.
    2. Boris ⁣ Shaver
      Boris ⁣ Shaver 18 September 2020 11: 32
      +4
      Quote: hydrox
      1227546

      Quote: hydrox
      depth 3100

      Information, especially from the field in which you yourself are not a boom boom, it is better to draw from official sources. A government procurement website to help you. For example, drilling an exploration well for 2,8 billion rubles - https://zakupki.gov.ru/223/purchase/public/purchase/info/lot-list.html?lotId=12929380&purchaseId=9690273&purchaseMethodType=IS
      How so?
      I explain:
      Your figure is more similar to the "base estimated cost" (and the cost is not of a full range of work on drilling a new well, but only a small piece of it), which is taken from the corresponding estimated standards, where it is indicated in prices, for example, of 1991 ( i.e. at the time of compiling the reference price guide). And then the so-called inflation coefficients are applied to this value in order to recalculate it to the real value. These inflation rates are published quarterly by authorized agencies. As a result, the price turns out to be significantly different from the price for the "collection" for the 1991th (for example) year. Not to re-publish collections on a quarterly basis, right? Well, the option of complete nonsense and lies when receiving information from some forum should not be ruled out either.
      Further. Well, you found this figure on some forum with comments that it was supposedly from a working draft. Firstly, a quotation from someone else's text must be labeled somehow, otherwise it looks as if you personally took it from a "working" project. Secondly, it is always useful to carry out at least the simplest mathematical calculations. Let's just divide the figure by the depth, in the end we get about 400 rubles per meter of drilling (and there are also other works in it). Now try to drill a water well at least 100 meters deep at this price in your country house)))
      1. hydrox
        hydrox 18 September 2020 12: 20
        +6
        Everything, I surrender to mercy :: I had no business with intelligence: only experiments with the contents of the RVS
  • lucul
    lucul 19 September 2020 14: 08
    0
    The cost of work on one exploration well alone is $ 1-8 million.

    And how much did this service cost under the USSR, in rubles?
    1. Boris ⁣ Shaver
      Boris ⁣ Shaver 19 September 2020 15: 33
      +1
      based on inflation, it should have cost from 6 to 15 million rubles
      above
  • Boris ⁣ Shaver
    Boris ⁣ Shaver 18 September 2020 08: 23
    +3
    Quote: nnm
    again the question arises about the state of exploration,

    The question is broader. The same mining and processing technologies. As for rare earths, I will not say, but the same noble ones have been explored here for a long time, but they are lying around as a dead weight because technologies do not allow it to extract profitably, while uncles from over the hill calmly extract such reserves with a good profit.
    1. nnm
      nnm 18 September 2020 08: 25
      +8
      The story is exactly the same with oil and gas.
      1. Boris ⁣ Shaver
        Boris ⁣ Shaver 18 September 2020 08: 40
        +5
        Quote: nnm
        The story is exactly the same with oil and gas.
        The fuel is still better. Just to start developing something on the verge of profitability in the conditions of constant agreements on more and more new production cuts - few people want. But old fields, for example, are actively being re-equipped with new technical means to continue production. Here we have a little of our own and don’t regret money for other people's achievements.
        1. nnm
          nnm 18 September 2020 08: 44
          +4
          Quote: Boris ⁣Razor
          and we do not regret money for other people's achievements.

          So that's the question! The same horizontal drilling technologies. And tomorrow they will impose sanctions, and then what?
          1. Boris ⁣ Shaver
            Boris ⁣ Shaver 18 September 2020 08: 49
            +5
            Quote: nnm
            sanctions will be introduced tomorrow, and then what?

            Again, the controlling stake in the sanctioned enterprises will be transferred to whose hands it is necessary, and these new hands, being now vitally interested in saving the enterprise, will be decided on the account of sanctions.
            So it was with the channel, a similar thing happened with Rosneft, etc. And then there will still be. So we will win.
    2. tatarin1972
      tatarin1972 18 September 2020 13: 23
      +2
      Oh, we have had this problem since Soviet times. We do not like to process "tails", Kirovsk, Apatity, warehouses of "tails" are large, if processed, then not for one decade.
      1. Boris ⁣ Shaver
        Boris ⁣ Shaver 19 September 2020 13: 17
        +1
        Quote: tatarin1972
        we have had this problem since Soviet times. We do not like to process "tails", Kirovsk, Apatity, warehouses of "tails" are large, if processed, then not for one decade

        Recycling of tailings is generally "sky-high". It's not even about tailings, but simply about "poor" deposits. On the same Kola example - the Fedorova Tundra deposit, it was given to Barrik because of "poverty". But it turned out how often we come out: "Barrick" slowed down the project, expecting high prices for palladium, and waited, yes, so high that now we ourselves can develop cost-effectively. So the Canadians were hinted that they were not going to renew their license, and they sold their right to our businessmen for a penny, after which they left Russia, cursing our "order" and the lack of guarantees for investors.
        1. tatarin1972
          tatarin1972 19 September 2020 14: 23
          +1
          Here, rather, it is not about mining, but about the processing and enrichment of ore. "Sick" topic of our chemical and petrochemical production. Any mining production with subsequent enrichment and processing requires significant, even I would say huge, capital expenditures, the current "owners" seem to regret money, it is easier to remove the "foam".
  • pmkemcity
    pmkemcity 18 September 2020 07: 33
    +3
    Quote: Boris ⁣Razor
    But not deposits, but reserves. Moreover, proven reserves.

    Moreover, the "published" proven reserves.
  • Mavrikiy
    Mavrikiy 18 September 2020 06: 47
    -3
    Read attentively.
    but also the presence of the world's largest reserves of rare earth metals - 37 percent of the world's total. At the same time, China's share in the world production of these materials is 63 percent.
    Why are the numbers so different? Dirty production and technologies to the detriment of the environment.
    .
    total reserves of rare earth metals in Russia amount to 12 million tons, that is, 10 percent of the world's total.

    Here is the Chinese data, I would not trust them:
    China prevails in the world reserves of REE, its share is about 47%. In addition, the CIS (16%) and the USA (11%) have relatively high shares.
  • Civil
    Civil 18 September 2020 06: 53
    0
    I would have known where REM would have lived in Monte Carlo, but seriously, you need to go to a strategic partner China and ask ...
  • siberalt
    siberalt 18 September 2020 06: 53
    12
    We had aluminum, but swam over the hill with Deripaska.
    Two years ago I ordered a direct-flow kettle "Bion" from Irkutsk via the Internet. The development is completely Russian. But to produce ourselves at a loss under Russian tax laws. We gave it to China. It turned out twice as cheap.
    Well, what is the point of mastering rare earth in order to give it to your uncle?
    1. Mountain shooter
      Mountain shooter 18 September 2020 07: 14
      -4
      Quote: siberalt

      0
      We had aluminum, but swam over the hill with Deripaska

      Where did he swim? Are the factories "gone"? And Deripaska can go through the forest, along with his ... the production of aluminum is left to us!
      By the way, I remembered about the rhenium deposit at Iturup. Oh, the Japanese massacre is so "dry" in the Southern Kuriles ... There, in addition to the crab, there is something to "scratch" for ...
      1. abrakadabre
        abrakadabre 18 September 2020 07: 37
        +3
        By the way, I remembered about the rhenium deposit at Iturup. Oh, the Japanese massacre is so "dry" in the Southern Kuriles ... There, in addition to the crab, there is something to "scratch" for ...
        More than there is. The territory is very extensive and with active volcanism. This means that at one time a lot of useful things were lifted from the depths of the Earth to the surface with magma. Again, the Kuril-Kamchatka Trench ... And these are not only "black smokers" at the bottom, but also potentially deposits of nodules containing all sorts of goodies for the industry. And it is not necessary to say that this is all the big Kuril ridge, not the Small Kuriles. Let the Japs just start swallowing the territory, they will quickly get a taste and want more.
        1. Interlocutor
          Interlocutor 18 September 2020 11: 20
          +2
          More than there is. The territory is very extensive and with active volcanism. This means that at one time a lot of useful things were lifted from the depths of the Earth to the surface with magma. Again, the Kuril-Kamchatka Trench ... And these are not only "black smokers" at the bottom, but also potentially deposits of nodules containing all sorts of goodies for the industry. And it is not necessary to say that this is all the big Kuril ridge, not the Small Kuriles. Let the Japs just start swallowing the territory, they will quickly get a taste and want more.


          I also heard that one of the active volcanoes is throwing out a rare earth metal.
      2. siberalt
        siberalt 18 September 2020 07: 51
        10
        Well yes. All profits are deposited in offshore, and in Russia - 6% and this, in your opinion, is everything fine? At a time when the constitutional "sovereign" of Russia from the people, who works for a living wage, pays 13% of his "overdose"! belay
      3. Zaurbek
        Zaurbek 18 September 2020 08: 33
        +2
        It is possible to extract oil in kilotons and to dirtiest the whole nature .... and profit is stupid to withdraw abroad ..... and pay taxes offshore. Both the country and the one that has oil and refining will be poor. But it's better than nothing .... the work will be at least. So far, metallurgists have such a scheme.
      4. Alf
        Alf 18 September 2020 11: 35
        +3
        Quote: Mountain Shooter
        Where did he swim? Are the factories "gone"? we still have aluminum production!

        The factories have remained, here the atmosphere and water are poisoned. But the PROFIT goes away.
      5. Vadim237
        Vadim237 18 September 2020 17: 46
        -2
        The question is whether it is profitable to extract this Rhenium at Iturup, judging by the fact that neither the USSR nor Russia began this for several decades, the answer is obvious - the extraction there is unprofitable.
        1. Alf
          Alf 18 September 2020 20: 00
          +2
          Quote: Vadim237
          The question is whether it is profitable to extract this Rhenium at Iturup, judging by the fact that neither the USSR nor Russia began this for several decades, the answer is obvious - the extraction there is unprofitable.

          Then let's take another approach to solving the problem.
          Let's make it so that the state in some Angola builds a mining and processing plant. Everyone will be happy. Russia - that the REM receives, that the ecology of Russia is not ruined, and all the profits are again exported to Russia, and the inhabitants of African palms do not have to pay much.
          Bad idea ?
    2. Lipchanin
      Lipchanin 18 September 2020 07: 15
      0
      Quote: siberalt
      Well, what is the point of mastering rare earth in order to give it to your uncle?

      Well, something like this
      This is not enough for domestic needs, so we get rare earth metals from China. At the same time, the raw materials mined in Russia are mostly exported.
      1. siberalt
        siberalt 18 September 2020 08: 00
        0
        China is no exception. All the same is in the depths of the Kuril Islands. But the State Department has not yet received a command for their development by Russia. And this, unfortunately, is not a conspiracy. hi
    3. Svetlana
      Svetlana 18 September 2020 07: 46
      -3
      Quote: siberalt
      We had aluminum, but swam over the hill with Deripaska

      Have the factories moved abroad along with the machines, equipment and workers? That is, as in a war, factories with all their equipment moved from the European part to the Urals. Or has the owner changed?

      As far as I remember, Deripaska, under pressure from the United States, sold part of his shares in order for the factories to continue working. But this does not mean that the factories have drifted over the hill. This is a different story.
      1. siberalt
        siberalt 18 September 2020 08: 07
        0
        The factories are no longer ours, but our cheap labor. Read the classics of Marxism. There, neither add nor subtract. The added value is just the most significant part of the profit, which is appropriated by the bourgeoisie. The workers - a living wage - themselves billions. hi
        1. Svetlana
          Svetlana 18 September 2020 08: 09
          -6
          This is a separate story, as I wrote in the last line.

          And by the way the question: Would it be better if the factories remained in the ownership of the Russian oligarch, but got up under the influence of sanctions?
          1. Zaurbek
            Zaurbek 18 September 2020 08: 35
            +6
            Better to have both production and pricing on the territory of the Russian Federation. And taxes from all of this.
            1. Svetlana
              Svetlana 18 September 2020 08: 43
              -1
              Hmm ..
              Of the three positions you listed, the second position, in the modern era, cannot belong to Russia. Pricing is a complicated thing and it mainly takes place on international exchanges (in the bazaar) and not in production
              The other two: Production is already located in Russia. Well, taxes also remain in Russia. And here is part of the added value, as said above siberalt, go over the hillock and this, yes, is unpleasant.
              1. Zaurbek
                Zaurbek 18 September 2020 09: 04
                +3
                I meant just added value.
          2. Alf
            Alf 18 September 2020 11: 39
            +4
            Quote: Svetlana
            It would be better if the factories remained in the ownership of the Russian oligarch,

            But doesn't OUR industry need these metals?
            1. Svetlana
              Svetlana 18 September 2020 13: 10
              -1
              Quote: Alf
              Quote: Svetlana
              It would be better if the factories remained in the ownership of the Russian oligarch,

              But doesn't OUR industry need these metals?


              There is no need to make a statement from the question by cutting out a part of it. I asked: Would it be better if the factories remained in the ownership of the Russian oligarch, but got up under the influence of sanctions?
              Don't learn to lie. Or it's too late and you've already been taught
              1. Alf
                Alf 18 September 2020 13: 55
                +1
                Quote: Svetlana
                It is not necessary to make statements from the question by cutting out part of it. I asked: Would it be better if the factories remained in the ownership of the Russian oligarch, but got up under the influence of sanctions?

                I explain for those who are on an armored train.
                The Russian oligarchy is distinguished by the fact that profits are immediately exported abroad.
                About the sanctions. Yes, I don’t care what the sanctions are for whom. Once again I ask the question and do not jump away from the answer - does the domestic market in Russia not exist? Is there nowhere to apply everything that is produced in Russia in Russia?
        2. Nastia makarova
          Nastia makarova 18 September 2020 08: 48
          -9
          all over the world factories belong to other countries
          1. Zaurbek
            Zaurbek 18 September 2020 09: 05
            +1
            It's not bad. Let them belong. Make a product, pay taxes ... take profits.
        3. Interlocutor
          Interlocutor 18 September 2020 11: 22
          -2
          The factories are no longer ours, but our cheap labor. Read the classics of Marxism. There, neither add nor subtract. The added value is just the most significant part of the profit, which is appropriated by the bourgeoisie. The workers - a living wage - themselves billions. hi

          Taxes are paid in Russia. Profit will always dive across the border. Regardless of the owner.
      2. Alf
        Alf 18 September 2020 11: 37
        +4
        Quote: Svetlana
        But this does not mean that the factories have drifted over the hill.

        Factories, no, profits floated away.
        1. Lexus
          Lexus 18 September 2020 15: 05
          +5
          Because they are already being "milked" by the "hands of the hated West", the "grateful East" and the local "milkers" who are gradually moving there, like a syphilitic in a joke. As it "ripens".
    4. Lexus
      Lexus 18 September 2020 14: 53
      +5
      Well, what is the point of mastering rare earth in order to give it to your uncle?

      hi Wealth is a sin! wassat And our country is "fabulous". Therefore, as in England, where a certain Robin Hood lived and "worked", who took from the rich and distributed to the poor for a modest%, we got our own ... But "specific", with its own "understanding of poverty." Dodger, in a word.
  • voyaka uh
    voyaka uh 18 September 2020 11: 59
    +5
    Its very difficult and long. The states have been trying in recent years to increase production of
    yourself, it turns out badly and slowly. The Americans are invited by Australia to expand production and
    production in Australia. But huge financial investments are needed.
    And China wisely made financial investments in its time. And now he holds the whole world by the throat.
    The Japanese are trying to reclaim these metals from the bottom of the ocean, near the outlets of underground
    sources. But it's expensive.
    1. Alf
      Alf 18 September 2020 13: 04
      +5
      Quote: voyaka uh
      Its very difficult and long.

      Then you don't have to do anything at all. But the PRC has already got into all the holes without soap. I wonder how ? Around the support of the state and a clear course of this very state.
      1. voyaka uh
        voyaka uh 18 September 2020 13: 22
        +2
        State support - yes. State strategy - yes.
        But 3/4 of GDP comes from the private sector in China. The state owns energy,
        mines and a significant part of the military-industrial complex.
        All high-tech, electronics, electro, cars, ships are privately owned.
        And it is the private sector that gives GDP growth,
        1. Alf
          Alf 18 September 2020 13: 51
          +4
          Quote: voyaka uh
          The state owns energy,
          mines

          Those. what provides the basis for the country's economy, on which everything depends.
          1. voyaka uh
            voyaka uh 18 September 2020 13: 58
            +3
            It is not a fact that this will continue in the future. recourse
            In Israel, for example, power plants are now being sold to private hands.
            Extraction of salts and raw materials is also private - for a long time.
            Even the military-industrial complex was sold by half, no less.
            The efficiency increased, the unprofitable ones began to make a profit.
            1. Vadim237
              Vadim237 18 September 2020 17: 54
              +2
              In the future, the United States and China will extract rare earths on the Moon and in meteorites with asteroids where and where they are millions of times more than on earth in their pure form and on the surface, since there is no soil erosion and deposition of these fragments to the planetoid core on the Moon. Who will shoot first and trillions of greens until the end of days.
        2. Alf
          Alf 18 September 2020 13: 58
          +4
          Quote: voyaka uh
          State support - yes.

          But in Russia this is not, in Russia there is only the support of "friends", and even then, only at the expense of the population.
          Quote: voyaka uh
          State strategy - yes.

          And it's even funny to talk about it. Strategies in today's Russia change seven times a day. Every year in Russia forums and round tables are held on the topic of the country's development and strategy.
          1. voyaka uh
            voyaka uh 18 September 2020 14: 11
            +5
            China is strong precisely because of its long-term economic development strategy.
            They are promoting Silk Road-2 very persistently, despite
            numerous difficulties and failures.
            They have a task, for example: to make the third largest company in terms of production
            airliners, after Airbus and Boeing. And they hammer this direction
            pouring in tens of billions.
            And they already produce the most cars. Every third car
            assembled in 2020 in China. These are not the best cars yet. But every year
            they send new models for European crash tests. And the results
            all the better. Break through to all markets soon.
            Etc. Stubborn guys fellow
            1. The comment was deleted.
              1. Lexus
                Lexus 18 September 2020 15: 17
                +5
                Brezhnev's anecdotal hitch, with a cough, about the country "walking toe-to-toe ... with others ..." under the current "re-appointment" has found a new life. And "understanding".
    2. The eye of the crying
      The eye of the crying 19 September 2020 11: 04
      0
      Quote: voyaka uh
      And now he holds the whole world by the throat.


      They only hold the world by the throat as long as they sell relatively cheaply. EMNIP, they somehow already tried to raise prices - production in other countries immediately began to stir.
  • smart fellow
    smart fellow 18 September 2020 15: 21
    +2
    According to some estimates, even 90%, 80% only in Inner Mongolia and in other countries own production facilities. At the suggestion of China, sanctions were announced against the DPRK to ban the import of gold and rare earths from the DPRK (the UN Security Council adopted Resolution 2016 in March 2270, which introduced additional sanctions against the DPRK. This resolution prohibited the export from the DPRK to other UN member states of gold, vanadium, titanium, rare and rare earth metals.). The main Kremlin consultants on Northeast Asia advised to support China (Academician Toloraya later repented that Russia flew past with a whistle, playing along with China). Well, the Americans are always happy to shit on the North Koreans. As a result, a $ 25 billion contract for the reconstruction of power grids and railways in the DPRK, which was planned to be financed by the extraction of gold and rare earth metals by Russian companies in the DPRK, was thwarted, and in fact the corresponding agreements had already been signed with the government of the DPRK.
    https://olegkir2002.livejournal.com/56062.html
    https://gold.ru/news/v-kndr-najdeno-krupnejshee-mestorozhdenie-redkozjomov.html
    1. smart fellow
      smart fellow 18 September 2020 15: 24
      +2
      The mentioned Tomtor deposit, although it is very rich in the percentage of rare earth oxides, was not developed in the USSR because it was necessary to build several hundred kilometers of road through the permafrost.
    2. smart fellow
      smart fellow 18 September 2020 15: 41
      +2
      The DPRK has an area of ​​about 120 thousand square kilometers and 26 million people. population. The country has a developed system of secondary technical education: vocational schools and technical universities, a large number of skilled labor. There are ports on the west and east coast. It was necessary to modernize railways and roads for the export of products, to build power lines from Russia - there is an excess of electricity in Siberia and the Far East of Russia (+ energy flows from the west). The DPRK authorities and mining companies were interested in this. Therefore, the project was immediately approved.
      1. smart fellow
        smart fellow 18 September 2020 20: 13
        +1
        The DPRK has at least one operating plant for the production of rare earth metals, built with technical assistance from the USSR. The volume of production is small, but in those days a lot of rare earths was not required. Its products apparently went to China and the Chinese decided to eliminate competition from the DPRK in order to maintain a monopoly on rare earth metals, when Russia began to advertise the Pobeda project https://vz.ru/economy/2017/4/17/866676.html
        The project for the development of the Tomtor field was considered by the Kremlin several years ago and they were going to involve Germany in it on equal shares, since Russia does not possess modern technologies for the extraction of rare earth metals from ore. Given the current political environment, it is unlikely that modern foreign technologies will be attracted, incl. from Germany in the coming years.
        By the way, the Americans also flew by. the gold mining company, which was supposed to operate in the DPRK, was only formally Russian and most of its shares belonged to foreign investors, incl. to American companies. Moreover, the US is now very afraid that China will stop supplying rare earth metals to the world market. The Chinese fooled everyone with the UN resolution - the United States and Russia were surprised by the PRC's proposal, but they saw the catch in hindsight.
  • Mavrikiy
    Mavrikiy 18 September 2020 06: 33
    -2
    Not a specialist. It seems that REM should be in the Kola and Kuril Islands.
    1. The comment was deleted.
  • Far B
    Far B 18 September 2020 06: 33
    +9
    All this shows that Russia is serious about improving the situation and bringing the production of rare earth metals to a decent level.
    Well, let's say they grow up here, fulfill their plans, come out on top in the world after China ... This, it seems to me, is doable - we are well-managed with the extraction of minerals. But where is the guarantee that all this good will be used for the benefit of the country?
    This is not enough for domestic needs, so we get rare earth metals from China. At the same time, the raw materials mined in Russia are mostly exported.
    It will continue to be exported, because the currency will stick to someone's sweaty hands. And we will continue to buy the disadvantage in China - because the currency will again stick to someone's sweaty hands. A vicious circle, panima.
    1. nnm
      nnm 18 September 2020 06: 44
      +3
      To be honest, I'm not sure what exactly is exported, because we ourselves import up to 90% of REM.
      It is necessary, of course, to look at the numbers. Perhaps the import is calculated taking into account the supply of finished products - the same batteries. By the way, Rusnano once shouted about a similar project. Then the money was ruined, production was ruined and everything is fine with these masters
      1. Far B
        Far B 18 September 2020 06: 55
        +2
        To be honest, I'm not sure what exactly is exported
        I gave a quote from the article, so all the claims are against the author.
        By the way, Rusnano once shouted about a similar project
        Rusnano shouted a lot about laughing
        1. nnm
          nnm 18 September 2020 07: 00
          +3
          No, this is not a complaint against you in any way.
          I wanted to say that even after extracting rzm, we do not know what to do with it, but we simply export it as a simple raw material. That we ourselves and the production facilities are practically nonexistent, where we could apply rm
      2. siberalt
        siberalt 18 September 2020 08: 11
        +2
        RMZ is a strategic raw material. Nobody will announce the real figures to us. And it is right. Otherwise - treason has long been unclear to whom. But they can actually be imprisoned by a sentence in the name of the Russian Federation.
        1. Lexus
          Lexus 18 September 2020 15: 28
          +4
          Nobody will announce the real figures to us.

          We, as it were, are not "supposed" to know ... including this ... by "concepts".

          "Obschak" ("thieves' cash desk", "boiler") - in criminal jargon, a fund for mutual assistance among the criminal community. There are two types of common fund - in places of deprivation of liberty and outside places of deprivation of liberty. According to thieves' laws, contributions to the common fund must be voluntary, although in practice this requirement is not always met. "Obshchak" is under the control of an authoritative criminal leader who enjoys the trust of criminals ("thief in law", "subordinate" or "overseer"). Violations of the rules for the collection, storage and use of common fund are severely punished. // taken from wiki //
      3. Alf
        Alf 18 September 2020 11: 41
        0
        Quote: nnm
        To be honest, I'm not sure what exactly is exported, because we ourselves import up to 90% of REM.

        It does not interfere.
        1. Lexus
          Lexus 18 September 2020 15: 22
          +6
          Al Capone never dreamed of such a "laundry" ...
    2. Mavrikiy
      Mavrikiy 18 September 2020 07: 00
      +4
      Everything can be corrected and changed if not the dollar, but the interests of the country is put at the forefront.
      China has consistently increased its presence and influence in the global rare earth metal oxide market by dumping and forcing a number of industry leaders to abandon their mining and production.
      For example, the famous Mountain Pass mine in California was closed. Over the past 20 years, as China established itself as a “five minutes” global monopoly, industries have exploded, demanding more and more rare earth metals. Until recently, all the rare earth metals in the PRC were mined and produced one and only mine with associated industrial plants near the city of Baotu in Inner Mongolia province. In the southern regions "wild artels" operate, owning small and medium-sized mines, guilty of frequent and massive environmental pollution by production waste, including radioactive "tails" (waste ores).
      Moreover
      The peak of dominance in the market under consideration was reached by China in 2010, when it began to mine 95% of all world rare earth metals.

      At the same time, China announced that it would reduce the extraction and export of rare earth metals, which is why the prices of many oxides of rare earth metals have risen fivefold in just the past few years. At the same time, about 90% of small producers were ousted from the market.
  • Observer2014
    Observer2014 18 September 2020 06: 40
    +7
    I don’t understand. We know how to enrich uranium better than anyone else. And we buy rare-earth metals from outside. And we send raw materials there for processing. Where is the logic? What have you lacked all these years? Money? Is it clever or was it deliberate sabotage? What kind of strategists have been in power for years that have driven critical industries into decay.
    1. forest1
      forest1 18 September 2020 06: 45
      +1
      Russia even buys uranium as a raw material, and not only it, but most countries with a developed nuclear industry. There is little of it in Russia. The main producers of uranium are Canada and Kazakhstan. Enrichment and extraction are different things.
      1. Nastia makarova
        Nastia makarova 18 September 2020 08: 49
        -3
        but we trade in enriched))) even the USA buy from us
        1. Alf
          Alf 18 September 2020 11: 45
          0
          Quote: Nastia Makarova
          even the united states buy from us

          It's like selling gunpowder to Germany at 41-45.
          1. Nastia makarova
            Nastia makarova 18 September 2020 12: 08
            -1
            officials love money from the USA, the same USA sold a lot of things to Germany
            1. Alf
              Alf 18 September 2020 12: 10
              +3
              Quote: Nastia Makarova
              officials love money from the usa,

              Absolutely right ! The prize for the correct answer is yours.
              The main question is WHO keeps these officials at work?
              1. Nastia makarova
                Nastia makarova 18 September 2020 13: 16
                -1
                Who else is the president, but there are no other officials
                1. Alf
                  Alf 18 September 2020 14: 00
                  +3
                  Quote: Nastia Makarova
                  Who else is the president, but there are no other officials

                  And look? But if the president cannot, can he put someone else, and not the same, but who will change the course?
                  1. Nastia makarova
                    Nastia makarova 18 September 2020 14: 10
                    -2
                    no matter how worse it is, new hungry bureaucrats will come and start doing the same, but in general, everyone needs to be changed according to the idea
                    1. Alf
                      Alf 18 September 2020 14: 28
                      +2
                      Quote: Nastia Makarova
                      but in general we need to change everyone according to the idea

                      For such a seditious thought, you will be quickly brought under an article about a call to change the existing system.
        2. Alf
          Alf 18 September 2020 12: 04
          +4
          Quote: Nastia Makarova
          but we trade in enriched))) even the USA buy from us

          It's like selling gunpowder to Germany from 41st to 45th.
          And, again, the question is, who endorsed this? Judging by the duration of the deal and the importance, this could not have passed by the frantic patriot of Russia.
    2. NDR-791
      NDR-791 18 September 2020 06: 52
      +4
      What have you lacked all these years? Money? Is it a deliberate sabotage? What kind of strategists have been in power for years that have driven critical industries into decay.
      That is why they were planted to be so. For loot triumphs over evil. And evil is something that does not begin to bring sustainable profits within two years.
    3. siberalt
      siberalt 18 September 2020 07: 03
      +5
      And what is there to understand. While the skin of an unkilled bear is being divided, more than one year will pass. According to the Yeltsin Constitution, Russia's bowels have long ceased to belong to the people. And in this respect it is guaranteed to be irreparable.
      1. Lexus
        Lexus 18 September 2020 16: 31
        +5
        And in this respect it is guaranteed to be irreparable.

        The "content" with which it was "supplemented" has the same "authors" and, of course, the "consistency".
      2. Vadim237
        Vadim237 18 September 2020 18: 00
        0
        And you get them money, invest in this business so that they belong to you?
    4. unhappy
      unhappy 18 September 2020 07: 09
      0
      Rare earth metals, as the name suggests what China is lucky, we are not very lucky.
      On the Kola Peninsula in Lovozero everything is available, the lung has already been dug up, back in the USSR. There remained a small canyon and flooded, abandoned mines. We tried to restore it, but alas, something is not audible.
    5. Reklastik
      Reklastik 18 September 2020 07: 16
      0
      There are no strategists there. They solve tactical tasks as they can, there is not enough for more. We do not have figures of the scale of Deng Xiaoping in power, and, moreover, in business.
    6. rocket757
      rocket757 18 September 2020 07: 35
      0
      Quote: Observer2014
      What have you been missing all these years?

      Ha, strange question? But we have Deri / P / Aski and others, which seem to be here, but somehow unrequited in front of us, the country, but very responsible to .... striping for example!
    7. Alf
      Alf 18 September 2020 11: 43
      +2
      Quote: Observer2014
      What have you been missing all these years?

      Lavrenty Palych was missing. And the 58th Art of the Criminal Code.
  • Reserve buildbat
    Reserve buildbat 18 September 2020 06: 44
    +1
    To bring the industry out of hibernation, it will take about $ XNUMX billion, which was just donated to onions.
    1. Alf
      Alf 18 September 2020 12: 06
      +4
      Quote: Stroibat stock
      To bring the industry out of hibernation, you will need

      these are the characters.
      1. The eye of the crying
        The eye of the crying 19 September 2020 11: 07
        0
        Then kapets, the industry will not come out of hibernation. The characters have been dead for almost 70 years. Over the past 2000 years, only one person has managed to be resurrected, and even that is not certain.
  • nnm
    nnm 18 September 2020 06: 57
    +3
    After reading the article, I realized one thing (if not right then correct it) - we again do not go further than mining and primary processing. After all, REM - capacitors, batteries, telecommunications, etc. And we again - mined - cleaned - sold. And then we will buy expensive finished products from the same China?
    Russia needs to build a full-cycle production, and not remain a resource base.
    1. The comment was deleted.
      1. Nastia makarova
        Nastia makarova 18 September 2020 08: 51
        -7
        that's it!!!! here the majority say that we need to build factories in russia and a full cycle, but they don’t understand that we cannot compete with China in price competition
        1. Free wind
          Free wind 18 September 2020 09: 09
          +2
          You can compete, and you need to, you just need to calculate the risks and look a little ahead. You can now start making great engines for Moskvich, but Muscovites have nowhere to install them. You need to be, if not ahead, then at least on a par. Otherwise, there will be a collapse. Let's say the famous Grundik company has disappeared. They hesitated a little, and the story ended.
          1. Nastia makarova
            Nastia makarova 18 September 2020 09: 56
            -5
            therefore, trends should be set and not produced what someone has already started
            1. nnm
              nnm 18 September 2020 11: 33
              +2
              Excuse me, what kind of "trendsetting" are you talking about? Understand that breakthrough technologies do not fall like an apple on the head all of a sudden - this is a natural result of decades of investment in education, science, engineering, and production. You can't just sit on the ruins of a factory, a research institute turned into a shopping center, gather around you the victims of the Unified State Exam who graduated from the Moscow Institute of Physics and Technology just because they had money and start generating ideas in the hope of how in that example about the theory of probability with monkeys from typewriters and Shakespeare's sonnet, and expect to end up with a super-duper idea-technology. It doesn't work that way. This is a lengthy, very costly and complexly organized process. We still cannot come close after the times of the Union to such questions.
              1. Free wind
                Free wind 18 September 2020 14: 39
                +1
                Often, there is no talk of breakthrough technologies, it is about improvement. Let's say Renault has released its flagship "MAGNUM". The cockpit is as tall as a tower; it chose all the dimensions permissible, but provided comfort to the driver. there is nothing special about the mechanisms, but they took care of the driver and began to take the car, we still had zil 157 released until then. Before that, Renault trucks were trailing behind. A dozen years later, VOLVO took the lead with its king FN-16, under 700 horses and a very comfortable and beautiful cabin, the rest rushed to catch up, but let’s say the Merso’s cabin, with saws on the lattice, didn’t come in, we sold 157 zil from storage bases ... There is no need somewhere breakthrough, highly scientific technologies, it is necessary to make life easier for people to make it better Gas stove, more convenient than a fire What's the breakthrough? Gas burns here and there. Or the same toilet, just made a bend of the drain pipe so that it doesn't smell and that's it ...
                1. nnm
                  nnm 18 September 2020 14: 49
                  +1
                  Colleague, I did not initially speak about breakthrough technologies, but only answered this idea myself.
                  But anyway:
                  Quote: Free Wind
                  provided comfort to the driver. there is nothing special about the mechanisms, but they took care of the driver and began to take the car

                  - but you must agree that if we now put a Mercedes body on a Volga chassis, this will not seriously affect the sales dynamics, because it is necessary that other data be equal to competitors - carrying capacity, resource, maintainability, electronics, etc. etc. Therefore, one must not lag behind on the most important positions.
                  Quote: Free Wind
                  just made a bend of the drain pipe

                  - but this requires an engineer to figure out how to do it, as well as invent a stove. I say that we should start with the restoration of education, science, production - just by first creating the basis, we can expect that we will start doing something good. On the contrary, I say that without this basis, we will not go far anywhere.
                  1. Alf
                    Alf 18 September 2020 20: 15
                    +4
                    Quote: nnm
                    I say that we should start with the restoration of education, science, production - just by first creating the basis, we can expect that we will start doing something good. On the contrary, I say that without this basis, we will not go far anywhere.

        2. nnm
          nnm 18 September 2020 10: 04
          +2
          You don't consider two nuances:
          1. Why are our products more expensive? Earlier the salary in China was significantly lower, and therefore it was profitable to produce. Now they have a salary, at least not lower than in Russia, which means that the reason is different - in the volume of the order, in taxes, loans, in the fact that they have killed their scientific, engineering, production base, etc. - these problems need to be identified and solved ... And you need to solve problems in a complex, and not patching holes. Otherwise, everything will always be more expensive and worse with us.
          2. You have forgotten about internal consumption. That is, if we were only talking about exports, you could understand, but the regulation of domestic prices is more than possible. Tax incentives, cross-subsidies, increasing the volume of internal orders, etc.

          And to raise the question that if someone is cheaper, then we should not develop our technologies, but simply buy where it is cheaper - in my opinion, it is not true in principle.
    2. dauria
      dauria 18 September 2020 09: 40
      +4
      - we again do not go beyond mining and primary processing.

      Again? In the USSR, such things were produced - capacitors of the KM series. The hucksters are still buying. The price went up in the 90s to 6 bucks per gram. There is not gold, not platinum. Something rare earth, like palladium. Like any "crazy" radio amateur, one day he collected all his Soviet trash and sold it. I bought an excellent computer (then still Taiwanese-Malaysian).
      So your "again" refers only to the Russian Federation, but not to the USSR. It's a shame. Before my eyes, the Chinese from artisans became the foremost power in electronics in 20 lousy years.
      1. nnm
        nnm 18 September 2020 11: 36
        +1
        Quote: dauria
        Your "again" refers only to the Russian Federation, but not to the USSR

        I didn't really mean it. The USSR was torn in a race with the United States in a million directions and in many gave the states a head start. And modern Russia with the USSR will not stand any comparison in this regard. "Again" - I meant the projects of the times of Russia - again Rusnano now kaaaaak shots, again Skolkovo now kkaaaaaak will conquer the whole world, again Roskosmos will fly kaaaaak - that's what I meant.
    3. Interlocutor
      Interlocutor 18 September 2020 11: 25
      0
      again we do not go beyond mining and primary processing. After all, REM - capacitors, batteries, telecommunications, etc. And we again - mined - cleaned - sold. And then we will buy expensive finished products from the same China?
      Russia needs to build a full-cycle production, and not remain a resource base.




      We go beyond mining and primary processing ...
      1. nnm
        nnm 18 September 2020 11: 28
        +1
        Judging by the numbers, we are already running .... the depth of oil refining from 98 to 2018 increased from 66 to 71%. For 20 years! By 5%!
        1. Interlocutor
          Interlocutor 18 September 2020 11: 30
          -1
          Judging by the numbers, we are already running .... the depth of oil refining from 98 to 2018 increased from 66 to 71%. For 20 years! By 5%!

          This only confirms - from what kind of "room we are trying to get out, and how hard it is.
          1. nnm
            nnm 18 September 2020 11: 42
            +1
            Unusual logic. I just thought that the oligarchs did not want to invest in their country, because why, if oil is already well traded, and the money received is perfectly deposited in the West for the future. And that's the point, everything was in ruins, they came on a white horse and tirelessly pulling the bast shoe, pulling, but they cannot pull it out.
            1. Interlocutor
              Interlocutor 18 September 2020 12: 07
              0
              Unusual logic. I just thought that the oligarchs did not want to invest in their country, because why, if oil is already well traded, and the money received is perfectly deposited in the West for the future. And that's the point, everything was in ruins, they came on a white horse and tirelessly pulling the bast shoe, pulling, but they cannot pull it out.

              Don't cling to oil. You just watch the video again. Perhaps you will not vomit from the fact that something is being done in the country. The video says, first of all, that we nifiga cannot tell good things about ourselves from the TV screen. And positive information is collected by lonely enthusiasts on YouTube.
              1. nnm
                nnm 18 September 2020 12: 09
                +1
                I listened to the words "allows you to collect five gearboxes per shift" and could no longer. Sorry.
                1. Interlocutor
                  Interlocutor 18 September 2020 12: 24
                  0
                  I listened to the words "allows you to collect five gearboxes per shift" and could no longer. Sorry.

                  That's why I asked you to try ... Apparently you are so sharpened already. Everything will always be bad for you.
                  1. nnm
                    nnm 18 September 2020 12: 35
                    +1
                    In such cases, it is better to always be dissatisfied with the result than to run around with joyful cries that a garage "near Ashotik" has been launched in the richest country in the world, collecting 5 checkpoints per day
                    Understand correctly, colleague, I am not a supporter of throwing mud at my country out of principle. I am a supporter of comparing the trillions of dollars received by our country over the years and the effect received for the people, economy, education, medicine, production. And when I, who was born in a country that launched a man into space just a few years after the war, is presented as an incredible achievement - the collection of 5 checkpoints, it’s not even funny to me - it hurts and scares me that you are proud of THAT !!!
                    1. Interlocutor
                      Interlocutor 18 September 2020 12: 37
                      -1
                      In such cases, it is better to always be dissatisfied with the result than to run around with joyful cries that a garage "near Ashotik" has been launched in the richest country in the world, collecting 5 checkpoints per day


                      You live with it ...
                      1. nnm
                        nnm 18 September 2020 12: 46
                        +1
                        Quote: Interlocutor
                        You live with it ...

                        And here you are wrong - we live with you. Only I will always count and do everything so that new Baikonurs, Kamaz, MIPT, DneproGES appear in the country, and you will continue to open new Ashotik facilities with a red ribbon and balls.
              2. nnm
                nnm 18 September 2020 12: 22
                +1
                Name at least one industry to which it would not be fair to "cling"?
                1. Interlocutor
                  Interlocutor 18 September 2020 12: 24
                  -1
                  You can cling to the post.
                  1. nnm
                    nnm 18 September 2020 12: 40
                    +1
                    I knew the answer, that's why I wrote - FAIRLY, but did you prefer not to notice it, or simply could not come up with at least 1 example yourself?
    4. Alf
      Alf 18 September 2020 12: 07
      +1
      Quote: nnm
      Russia needs to build a full-cycle production, and not remain a resource base.

      So what's stopping you? And one more small but very important point - these industries must belong to Russia and the state.
      1. nnm
        nnm 18 September 2020 12: 26
        +1
        If he is building a state, of course. I will say more that, in my opinion, if we have the same IBM, the APPLE state should be obliged, at a certain level of their development, to nationalize these companies and, at most, give them to their creators for management. For a fair price. For the same listed companies, as well as others, having reached a certain level, begin to influence politics, society on a global scale - collect personal data, model, and then moderate the behavior of people, etc.
        1. Alf
          Alf 18 September 2020 12: 29
          +1
          Quote: nnm
          For the same listed companies, as well as others, having reached a certain level, begin to influence politics,

          We see this very well on the example of the behavior of these (Russian) companies in Russia. My profit is a loss to the state. One breakthrough last year, what is it worth, who is fixing it? Ministry of Emergencies or Concern?
          1. nnm
            nnm 18 September 2020 13: 50
            +3
            Honestly, I think that no one already ... and so will do!
    5. Vadim237
      Vadim237 18 September 2020 18: 03
      -1
      Full-cycle products cost a lot of money and time - and it's not a fact that everything high-tech will be bought from you, whatever one may say, this is the most risky business line - the production of microprocessors as the clearest example of all this.
      1. Alf
        Alf 18 September 2020 20: 05
        +1
        Quote: Vadim237
        Full-cycle products cost a lot of money and time - and it's not a fact that everything high-tech will be bought from you, whatever one may say, this is the most risky business line - the production of microprocessors as the clearest example of all this.

        And this requires the support of the state at all levels and allies that you hold by the throat. Like the USA, for example. How did the PRC achieve all this? The Chinese bought the Volvo concern and were not afraid that no one would take ...
        1. Vadim237
          Vadim237 19 September 2020 02: 00
          0
          In this regard, Russia has a small sales market - who is the first who rules, alas, in terms of civilian microprocessors is the United States. The state will provide any support.
  • rocket757
    rocket757 18 September 2020 07: 01
    +1
    Last week it was reported that an investment project for the production of rare earth metals, as well as titanium dioxide, is starting in the Murmansk region.

    This is of course logical, beautiful, NECESSARY !!!
    Only I, and I hope many others, HAVE A QUESTION ???
    And who will be entrusted with such an important matter ??? Again, what kind of deri / P / asku and other similar s s s ... face ??? Which you really need to ask, and whose is now RUSSIAN aluminum, titanium, and indeed WHERE IS THE MONEY, which the state threw into support like OUR industry ???
    It is very "funny" to watch how they themselves hang trinkets / pendants, for "great services" to the state !!! I just want to ask - And to WHICH STATE, merits ???
    So, like about resources / about industry, but without a huge fly in the ointment, in our "honey barrel" nowhere and in any way !!!
  • pmkemcity
    pmkemcity 18 September 2020 07: 32
    +2
    This is not enough for domestic needs, so we get rare earth metals from China. At the same time, the raw materials mined in Russia are mostly exported.

    I recalled the situation in the cement industry of the 2000s, when cement plants at dumping prices transported cement to China in echelons, and then from there, our cement was transported to Russia, and the price, of course, already corresponded to the "world" price.
    1. Alf
      Alf 18 September 2020 12: 12
      +1
      Quote: pmkemcity
      This is not enough for domestic needs, so we get rare earth metals from China. At the same time, the raw materials mined in Russia are mostly exported.

      I recalled the situation in the cement industry of the 2000s, when cement plants at dumping prices transported cement to China in echelons, and then from there, our cement was transported to Russia, and the price, of course, already corresponded to the "world" price.

      The situation was exactly the same in Sochi. What has changed?
  • syndicalist
    syndicalist 18 September 2020 07: 35
    -1
    ... It will take about $ XNUMX billion to bring the industry out of hibernation.

    Is this the same one and a half billion that was directed to support Lukashenka?
  • Ross xnumx
    Ross xnumx 18 September 2020 07: 48
    +3
    Basically, only narrow specialists and local residents were interested in the news.

    And did the local residents satisfy their curiosity by answering questions about the restoration of the region after the extraction of nickel, appatite and other places ruined by open mining?
    It's so great to turn the land of unspoiled nature with drinking water from rivers and lakes into:
  • Old partisan
    Old partisan 18 September 2020 08: 28
    0
    Yes Yes Yes. It is necessary to establish production processing, so that some deputy chairman of the government such as Poltoranin. He successfully and inexpensively privatized it and, as a man with a capital letter, supplied materials to the markets of Europe and the USA.
  • CommanderDIVA
    CommanderDIVA 18 September 2020 08: 37
    -1
    The extraction of PMM directly depends on the needs of the Russian market, apparently it is cheaper and more environmentally friendly to purchase PMM and finished products with their use from the Chinese than to develop sites on their own territory, and there is probably a strategic reserve for rare earths, 6 years of sanctions did something our government taught
    1. Alexey from Perm
      Alexey from Perm 18 September 2020 11: 50
      +2
      do not hope for anything they are not going to learn - the main criterion is to make money
    2. Alf
      Alf 18 September 2020 12: 13
      +1
      Quote: CommanderDIVA
      6 year of sanctions something our government taught

      But what, they taught. Yesterday Mishustin said that taxes should be raised. Then the industry will explode, wow, it will explode ...
  • mag nit
    mag nit 18 September 2020 08: 38
    -1
    Putin and Sobchak solved problems with the sale of rare earth metals to Europe. Nolik has a lot of experience.
  • Alvis07
    Alvis07 18 September 2020 09: 05
    0
    The article is incomprehensible. "The reserves of rare earth metals in Russia are 12 million tons, that is, 10% of the world's total," and "the share of the Russian Federation in the world production of these materials is only 1.3%." That is, the production efficiency of rare earth metals is slightly above 12%, and the rest goes to slag?

    Move on. "The demand of the domestic industry for rare earth metals is 1100 tons, and the production volume is 250 tons." That is, you need 4-5 times more.

    So how much REM reserves do you need to have, how much REM should be mined and how much REM should be produced in order to cover the needs of the domestic industry and reach the level of 10 percent of the global volume?

    While China is the world's largest supplier of rare earth metals, there are others. According to the US Geological Survey, Australia ranks second in REM production and sixth in reserves. Brazil and Vietnam have about half the reserves of China - 44 million tons. In the USA - 1,4 million tons.

    But with the topic of Helium-3, where all other countries "graze the backs" and where Russia has a priority - for some reason they are silent.
    1. Alf
      Alf 18 September 2020 12: 16
      +2
      Quote: Alvis07
      "The demand of the domestic industry for rare earth metals is 1100 tons, and the production volume is 250 tons." That is, you need 4-5 times more.

      So how much REM reserves do you need, how much REM should be mined and how much REM should be produced in order to cover the needs of the domestic industry

      It's simple. It is necessary to PRODUCE a product, and not to drive the ore for export, from which products will be extracted THERE and we will be pushed three times.
      To extract and produce are completely different concepts.
    2. Zementbomber
      Zementbomber 18 September 2020 13: 28
      +1
      But with the topic of Helium-3, where all other countries "graze the backs" and where Russia has a priority - for some reason they are silent.

      I will explain why they are silent. Because neither now nor in the foreseeable future - industrial (and even experimental-industrial) production of helium-3 - nobody cares about it. Moreover, it is still unknown: will it ever be needed at all?
  • Yves762
    Yves762 18 September 2020 09: 08
    0
    ... This is not enough for domestic needs, so we get rare earth metals from China. At the same time, the raw materials mined in Russia are mostly exported. ...

    what
    belay
    Here's something I'm losing my orientation (* in a good way) with this ...
    How is that.!?!.
    How does it even work.?!?.
    1. Alf
      Alf 18 September 2020 12: 19
      +1
      Quote: Yves762
      ... This is not enough for domestic needs, so we get rare earth metals from China. At the same time, the raw materials mined in Russia are mostly exported. ...

      what
      belay
      Here's something I'm losing my orientation (* in a good way) with this ...
      How is that.!?!.
      How does it even work.?!?.

      Works fine. They mined and sold the ore-profit to the owner's pocket. Buys a ready-made state from there at the expense of the treasury. Everyone is happy, except for the interests of the state, and who cares about it?
  • Undecim
    Undecim 18 September 2020 09: 23
    +3
    Last week it was reported that an investment project for the production of rare earth metals, as well as titanium dioxide, is starting in the Murmansk region.
    The author has in vain rearranged the components. The main goal of this project is the production of titanium dioxide, rare earth metals, and there are two niobium and tantalum in the ores of the Afrikand deposit - this is a by-product, moreover, in concentrations that are unlikely to significantly affect the rare earth metals market.
    Besides, there is one more nuance. The Afrikand field has already been developed. The ore from this deposit is naturally radioactive. In 1958, an enrichment plant was built for the production of perovskite and titanomagnetite concentrates, the concentrates were intended for smelting ferrotitanium at the Klyuchevsky Ferroalloy Plant. But the project was closed due to the fact that the concentration of radionuclides impeded their use in metallurgy.
    Well, taking into account the technologies for enriching perovskite ores, local ecology, you can build a monument.
    1. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave 19 September 2020 14: 14
      +2
      Fakes about the resumption of development have arisen over the past 25 years with an enviable frequency. And nothing has changed. The Afrikand field is located 10 km from my hometown, with the ecology everything is very good there.
      By the way, the landscape in the above photo does not really correspond to the authentic one.
      1. Undecim
        Undecim 19 September 2020 18: 29
        +3
        By the way, the landscape in the above photo does not really correspond to the authentic one.
        It does not correspond to him at all. This is South Africa, a uranium mine. I inserted it as a hint.
        1. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 19 September 2020 19: 25
          +1
          https://www.mvestnik.ru/economy/belyj-poroshok-iz-redkih-zemel/
          Actually, information from the scene.
        2. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 19 September 2020 21: 03
          +3
          I thought it was South Africa.
    2. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave 19 September 2020 14: 21
      +1
      https://kamnevedy.ru/mestorozhdeniya/afrikanda-massiv/foto/
      Link to contemporary quarry landscapes.
  • saygon66
    saygon66 18 September 2020 09: 40
    0
    - "The growth plans are real ..." Of course! From the level to which we descended - only up!
    - And what about the Chusovsky Combine now? Ferroalloys were produced ...
    1. Alf
      Alf 18 September 2020 12: 20
      +1
      Quote: saygon66
      - And what about the Chusovsky Combine now? Ferroalloys were produced ...

      "Optimized" is not profitable.
      1. saygon66
        saygon66 18 September 2020 12: 57
        0
        - Not surprising... sad
  • Alexey from Perm
    Alexey from Perm 18 September 2020 11: 47
    0
    "This is not enough for domestic needs, so we get rare earth metals from China. At the same time, the raw materials mined in Russia are mostly exported." we are missing, but we are exporting ....

    As I understand it, "effective owners", having received the resource for use, will again sell it abroad. Nothing new, capitalism as it is, as you wanted it ...
    Therefore, the language is not to develop anything, only to ditch nature, and wait until the system in the country changes to a more human one)))
  • taas
    taas 18 September 2020 13: 02
    0
    There are many deposits in Russia, both for associated production and for the direct production of these metals themselves. The Tomtor deposit alone can provide 50% of the world consumption of niobium at quite reasonable prices and compete with Brazilian producers. This deposit has huge reserves in places with a hurricane content of niobium.
    For the production of the final product from rare and rare-earth metals (pure metal, oxides, mischmetal), it is not the country's resource base that is important, but the metallurgical redistribution.
    China is in first place in the production of rare earth products, not because there are a lot of reserves, but therefore do not bother with ecology, the factories are extremely toxic.
    At one time, both in the United States and in Australia there were redistributions for rare earths, but due to ecology they were closed, they thought that China would provide.
    In the USSR, there was a monopoly in this area - the Frunze Metallurgical Plant. Closed for a long time.

    Environmentally friendly metallurgical processing for rare and rare earth metals should have a different technology, which is not currently available. The only research institute for hydrometallurgy, which was directly involved in the topic of separating all monocytes and pyrochlores before production, was closed in the 90s, scientists were expelled by commerce, buildings were privatized (near Akademgorodok).

    The IST group of the oligarch Nesis has a license for Tomtor for many years, but nothing has been done so far, only it is declared that they will build a hydrometallurgical plant in Transbaikalia. But the technology of redistribution has not yet been developed, as I understand it. There is simply no one, the scientific team of the institute was dispersed 25 years ago.

    They are trying to do something in the former Krasnoyarsk-26, but also, apparently, dull. On the territory of the former USSR, more or less a base with technologists has been preserved in Northern Kazakhstan, in Ustkamenogorsk, but Russia wants its own production.
    There were rumors that Nesis simply wanted to export ore from Tomtor to China, and to export it by air, because in one section of Tomtor there is simply a frantic content of niobium-rare earth ore.

    So far, neither on the Kola Peninsula, nor on Tomtor, nothing serious is maturing. 80 thousand Beria monocytes in the collapsed warehouses still lie in Krasnoufimsk.
    1. Maks2GTI
      Maks2GTI 18 September 2020 20: 07
      0
      In 2003, a hydrometallurgical plant for the production of niobium and tantalum was already launched in Transbaikalia. Have not worked for three years
      1. Vadim237
        Vadim237 19 September 2020 02: 03
        -1
        Because it was launched on the old equipment - that's why they covered themselves even in the absence of internal demand and the same external demand.
        1. Maks2GTI
          Maks2GTI 19 September 2020 05: 00
          +1
          The equipment was all new.
        2. Alf
          Alf 19 September 2020 12: 27
          +1
          Quote: Vadim237
          Because it was launched on the old equipment - that's why they covered themselves even in the absence of internal demand and the same external demand.

          Does the country need niobium and tantalum? Oh, yes, there is no electronics of our own, killed by market apologists.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Pavel Shadoyan
    Pavel Shadoyan 18 September 2020 22: 32
    0
    In Russia, everything is there, only where it lies, they don't know yet. But there is. How did Lomonosov hint? It's time to hear a real person
  • vinthester
    vinthester 18 September 2020 22: 41
    0
    In the dashing 90s, the Umbozersky mine was stopped at the Lovozersky mine, and the equipment of the concentrating plant was dismantled. I think that with appropriate funding, the Umbozersky complex of the Lovozersky GOK can be quickly restored without waiting for 2030.
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 19 September 2020 02: 04
      0
      It's easier to rebuild one.
  • alex967
    alex967 19 September 2020 06: 43
    +1
    With what joy did the Irkutsk region find itself in Transbaikalia?
    Look at the author on the globe. winked
    The Zashikhinskoye field is located in the Nizhneudinsky District of the Irkutsk Region.
  • Andrew 40
    Andrew 40 20 September 2020 09: 34
    0
    "Well, it is clear that they are explored. And here again the question arises about the state of geological prospecting, which the state has long thrown off its shoulders."
    The state has thrown off everything that does not bring immediate profit - this applies to all areas of the life of our people: fundamental science, education, art, medicine, etc. etc.
    All this fits into the logic of either "temporary workers" or bandits, for whom the budget has now become a "common fund", and people, mineral resources and everything that is left of the USSR are a cash cow. The beholder does not deny himself and the lads anything, they pay decently to the assorted guards from internal and external enemies. But in general, since logically this cannot last long, already now their children are sent to the west, where they see their "tomorrow".