Military Review

The last offensive of the Russian army

128
The last offensive of the Russian army

G.F. Gorshkov. "Battle of the ships of the Azov military flotilla with Wrangel's ships at the Obitochnaya Spit "


100 years ago, in September 1920, the last offensive of Wrangel's Russian army began. The White Guards again defeated the 13th Soviet Army, captured Berdyansk, Mariupol and Aleksandrovsk and found themselves on the outskirts of Yuzovka and Taganrog.

Attempts to strengthen the rear


After the unsuccessful assault on the Kakhovsky fortified area in early September 1920, a temporary lull set in on the entire Tauride Front. Both sides replenished losses, regrouped forces, pulled up reserves. We were preparing for new battles. This time the White command was preparing an operation on the northeastern flank, was going to strike in the Yekaterinoslav direction, break into the Donetsk basin and into the Don region. First, the Wrangelites had to defeat the Reds in the Pologi - Verkhniy Tokmak area, strike at the flank and rear of the enemy in the Orekhov - Aleksandrovsk area. After defeating the enemy on the left bank of the Dnieper, Wrangel was going to return to the Zadneprovskoy operation. Defeat the Red Army on the western flank, creating the possibility of a deep breakthrough in Ukraine and joining with the Petliura and Poles. Right-bank Ukraine was supposed to give the whites allies, reinforcements and resources for the war.

In the hope of creating a powerful new anti-Soviet front, the commander-in-chief of the Russian army continued to seek contacts with various forces. It was not possible to raise an uprising in the Don and Kuban. Representatives of the rebels from Ukraine came to Wrangel, they were provided material assistance. The real significance of such "alliances" was negligible. Atamanov and Batek were interested in money, weapon, supply. But in return they could not give anything, and they did not want to. They “walked by themselves” and did only what was beneficial to them. The white command tried to come to an agreement with Makhno, who had the most united and combat-ready forces. However, the Makhnovists did not make contact. The "generals" were "counter-revolutionaries" for the old man. The Makhnovists were fundamentally opposed to any government, but they were on the same side of the front with the Bolsheviks.

The lack of an alliance with Makhno worsened the situation in the rear of the White Army. The white rear was disturbed by the Crimean "green" and red partisans. There were quite a few of them, often deserters of various armies. They disrupted communications, robbed passers-by, and raided populated areas. This forced the whites to keep garrisons in the rear cities, to equip punitive expeditions from the rear units and cadets against the rebels and partisans. To fight the gangs in the rear, a special headquarters was created, headed by General Anatoly Nosovich. Many "green" ideologically considered themselves Makhnovists, recognizing the supreme authority of the father. The insurgent peasants of Tavria also considered themselves "Makhnovists". Since dad did not support Wrangel, they did not support the whites either. The peasants did not go to the Russian army, they hid from mobilization, went to the partisans. Large settlements in Tavria did not give a single conscript to the army. Wrangel's "draconian" orders (on mutual responsibility in the family and in the countryside, confiscation of property from deserters, etc.) were simply ignored.

The workers were on the side of the socialists. Crimean Tatars preferred the "green" ones. The masses of refugees who flooded the cities of Crimea preferred "politics", revelry in taverns or flight abroad. They did not want to go to the front line. As a result, the White Army was dying from a lack of reinforcements. Something was given to mobilization in the cities, prisoners of the Red Army were herded into the troops, reorganization and disbandment of rear offices and units was underway. But these reinforcements were much worse in quality than the front-line units. It was especially difficult to compensate for the losses in the officer corps. The white command could not bring to the rear to rest and replenish the unit from the front line. There was no one to replace them. The same units (Kornilovites, Markovites, Drozdovites, etc.) were thrown into threatened sectors of the front, into a breakthrough.

Reorganization of the Russian army


In September 1920, the position of the whites temporarily changed for the better. On the Polish front, the Red Army suffered a heavy defeat. Wrangel proposed to the Polish government in the central direction to stop at the old German positions and in the future to carry out the main operations in the Kiev direction. Wrangel himself planned to break through the Dnieper, to unite with the Poles in the Kiev region. Then one could think of a trip to Moscow. Savinkov in Poland began to create the 3rd Russian army. The Ukrainian National Committee was established under the Crimean government. The moderate Ukrainian nationalists who were in it fought for an autonomous Ukraine within the framework of a united Russia.

Wrangel's army received reinforcements. The Ulagai landing corps returned from the Kuban, with it thousands of Kuban Cossacks arrived, who joined the Wrangelites. Fostikov's "army" was taken out of Georgia. Their Poland was transferred 15 thousand. Bredov's building. Additional mobilization was carried out. With the help of foreign missions and émigré organizations, White Guards arrived in Crimea, singly and in groups, who for various reasons ended up in the Baltic States, Germany, Poland, Romania, even from China. A significant increase in the number gave the attraction of Red Army prisoners to the army.

This allowed Wrangel to reorganize the army. The troops were divided into two armies. The 1st Army and the Don Corps were brought together to the 1st Army under the command of Kutepov. The 2nd Army Corps of Vitkovsky and the 3rd Army, formed from the Consolidated Kuban Infantry Division (7th Division), Kuban and Bredovites, entered the 2nd Army under the command of Dratsenko. 1st Army was located on the right wing of the Tavrian Front, 2nd - on the left. General Barbovich's separate cavalry corps united the regular cavalry. A separate equestrian group included the Kuban division and the Terek-Astrakhan brigade. The combat strength of the White Army grew to 44 thousand people with about 200 guns, about 1 thousand machine guns, 34 aircraft, 26 armored cars, 9 tanks and 19 armored trains. In the rear, at the stage of formation, there were other units, but they had low combat effectiveness, it was also necessary to obtain weapons and uniforms from the Entente.

Offensive


Before a breakthrough on the western flank, it was necessary to protect oneself in the north and east, where the 13th Soviet army threatened the whites. It was necessary to defeat the 13th Army or push it away. Also, the offensive of the 1st army of Kutepov on the right flank was supposed to divert the attention and reserves of the enemy. 2nd Army Dratsenko with Babiev's cavalry got time to prepare the Zadneprovskoy operation. By mid-September 1920, in the Mikhailovka-Vasilyevka area, the White command concentrated the 1st Army Corps, the Kornilov Division, the 1st, 2nd and 4th Kuban Cavalry Divisions and the Don Corps.

On September 14, 1920, Abramov's Don Corps launched an offensive. On September 15, a naval battle took place near the Obitochnaya spit (near Berdyansk). The Red Azov military flotilla led by Khvitsky (4 gunboats and 3 boats) left Melitopol with the task of attacking the white flotilla under the command of the captain of the 2nd rank Karpov (2 gunboats, two armed icebreakers, a destroyer, a minesweeper and a boat), which fired at Berdyansk. The forces of the parties were approximately equal. During the skirmish, the White Flotilla lost the Salgir gunboat, and the Ural gunboat was also damaged. Both sides declared themselves the winners. In general, the Reds gained an advantage in the Sea of ​​Azov and deprived the White Army, which was attacking the Donbass, of support from the sea.

In stubborn battles, the Don divisions battered and pressed the 40th and 42nd rifle divisions of the Reds. The enemy was thrown back to the east and northeast, on the river. Horse. Then the Wrangelites captured Berdyansk and the Pologi station. Developing the offensive, the whites moved to the Donbass. The 1st Army Corps also went on the offensive, breaking through the red front at Novo-Grigorievsky. Defeating the right wing of the 13th Army, the White Guards took Orekhov, on September 19 - Aleksandrovsk. The Red Army retreated to the island of Khortitsa opposite the city. Kutepov's troops continued to march north. The Whites took Slavgorod, in the area of ​​which stubborn battles were fought in the following days. On September 22, the 1st Russian Army occupied the Sinelnikovo station.

The White command transferred the Don Corps and Kuban divisions to the eastern flank in order to develop an offensive on Yuzovka and Mariupol. White on September 28 occupied Mariupol. The Don corps went to the border of the Don region. On this, the successes of the White Army on the right flank ended. The 13th Soviet Army, receiving reinforcements and introducing reserves into battle, counterattacked. In the area of ​​Sinelnikovo, there were fierce oncoming battles. The 1st corps went over to the defensive. The Don group of whites was first stopped and then thrown back. At the same time, the attention of the white command riveted the left flank, where a new offensive operation was conceived. Therefore, the Wrangelites were unable to develop the first successes in the northeast.


To be continued ...
Author:
Photos used:
https://ru.wikipedia.org/
Articles from this series:
Smoot. 1920 year

Battle of Rostov
The disaster of white Odessa
How Slashchev Crimea defended
Dono-Manych battle
The death of the Northern Army Miller
Why Western agent Kolchak is turned into a hero and martyr of Russia
The defeat of the army of Denikin in the battle of Tikhorets
How did the Ice Siberian campaign end
The fall of the White Kuban
Agony of White Novorossiysk
The death of the Kuban army
Denikin's resignation
Far Eastern Republic and the Japanese threat
Polish "liberation" campaign in Kiev
Baku “Blitzkrieg” of the Red Army
The battle for Belarus. May operation of the Red Army
War of the Russian Army Wrangel
The first victories of the Wrangel army
The defeat of the 13th Soviet Army in Northern Tavria
Our Kiev!
The battle for Rivne. How Budyonnovtsy smashed the Polish defense
Minsk is ours! The defeat of the Polish army in Belarus
Battle for Lviv. The failure of the Red Army in Galicia
The death of the cavalry group Rednecks
The fierce battle for the Kakhovsky bridgehead
The defeat of the landing group Ulagaya
"Miracle on the Vistula"
How Tukhachevsky destroyed his armies on the Vistula
Battle of Komarov. Defeat of the 1st Cavalry Army
Bukhara Blitzkrieg Frunze
"The danger of Wrangel is becoming enormous ..."
Battle on the Lower Dnieper
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  1. Free wind
    Free wind 15 September 2020 05: 12 New
    29
    The offensive was not of the Russian army, but of the white bandit army. Which eventually the people scattered to shreds.
    1. Varyag_0711
      Varyag_0711 15 September 2020 10: 35 New
      16
      Free wind (ALEXANDER)
      The offensive was not of the Russian army, but of the white bandit army. Which eventually the people scattered to shreds.
      And this is the trend among modern Bulkokhrustas, like all whites are purely "Russian", and all the Bolsheviks without exception are ugly, well, the Latvian riflemen who have joined them. Although, if you look at the white officers of the Germans and other foreigners, there was a fig and a dime, and where in the Red Army were so many yavrebn? request Looks like they collected all over Yavrope ... laughing
      1. Bar1
        Bar1 15 September 2020 12: 27 New
        -3
        Quote: Varyag_0711
        and where in the Red Army so many yavreev nashkrebli?


        Putin said that the first Bolshevik government was 90% Jewish, which is true.

        https://pivopotam.livejournal.com/424676.html

        so the Bolshevik slogan about "friendship and brotherhood of peoples" is propaganda.
        1. Varyag_0711
          Varyag_0711 15 September 2020 13: 29 New
          +8
          Bar1 (Timur)
          Putin said that the first Bolshevik government was 90% Jewish, which is true.
          Since when did Putin become a historian in our country ?! And then, he said a lot of things, and promised even more (especially about the fact that he will not allow an increase in the retirement age), and WHAT ...?!
          And the myth about the "Yavreyskoe" government of the Bolsheviks has already been debunked 100500 times, including here at VO. I have not the slightest desire to debunk him once again, especially in front of you fool !

          By the way, Putin and his entourage speak very unflatteringly about Comrade Stalin, but nevertheless use the results of his labors to the fullest. Only now, neither Putin nor his entourage to Comrade Stalin and do not hold a candle, and from this they are angry like stinking bugs.
          1. Bar1
            Bar1 15 September 2020 13: 59 New
            0
            Quote: Varyag_0711
            Since when did Putin become a historian in our country ?!

            I gave you a link, where are the lists of the government of the Bolsheviks by name, why not look?
            1. Kart
              Kart 15 September 2020 16: 05 New
              -5
              Apparently the name Putin caused a reaction.
              Moreover, "he did not speak flatteringly about Comrade Stalin," and this, as some categories know, is a terrible taboo. Like the Amazon Indians.
            2. Hantengri
              Hantengri 16 September 2020 01: 07 New
              +2
              Quote: Bar1
              Quote: Varyag_0711
              Since when did Putin become a historian in our country ?!

              I gave you a link, where are the lists of the government of the Bolsheviks by name, why not look?

              Here's another link for you: https://m-sveta11.livejournal.com/911.html
              Fakecomets have already been killed!
              COMPOSITION OF THE FIRST SOVNARKOM (18 people):
              1. Chairman - Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin) (26.10.1917 - 21.01.1924) - Great Russian

              2. People's Commissariat of Internal Affairs:
              Alexey Ivanovich Rykov (26.10. - 4.11.1917) - Great Russian

              3. People's Commissariat of Agriculture
              Vladimir Pavlovich Milyutin (October 26.10 - November 4.11.1917, XNUMX) - Great Russian

              4. The People's Commissariat of Labor
              Alexander Gavrilovich Shlyapnikov (26.10.1917 - 8.10.1918) - Great Russian

              5. Committee on Naval Affairs (26.10. - 8.11.1917)
              Vladimir Alexandrovich Antonov-Ovseenko - maloros
              Pavel Efimovich Dybenko - Little Russian
              Nikolay Vasilievich Krylenko - Great Russian

              6. People's Commissariat of Trade and Industry
              Victor Pavlovich Nogin (26.10. - 4.11.1917) - Great Russian

              7. People's Commissar of Education
              Anatoly Vasilievich Lunacharsky (family member for the present father - Antonov) (26.10.1917/12.09.1929/XNUMX - XNUMX/XNUMX/XNUMX) - Great Russian

              8. People's Commissariat of Finance
              Ivan Ivanovich Skvortsov-Stepanov (26.10.1917 - 20.01.1918) - Great Russian

              9. People's Commissariat of Foreign Affairs:
              Lev Davidovich Trotsky (Bronstein) (26.10.1917 - 8.04.1918) - Jew

              10. People's Commissariat of Justice
              Georgy Ippolitovich Lomov-Oppokov (26.10 - 9.12.1917) - Great Russian

              11. People's Commissariat of Food
              Ivan Adolfovich Teodorovich (26.10 - 4.11.1917) - Pole

              12. The People's Commissar of Posts and Telegraphs
              Nikolai Pavlovich Glebov (Avilov) (26.10 - 9.12.1917) - Great Russian

              13. People’s Commissariat for Nationalities (People’s Commissariat) of the RSFSR (1917-1923)
              Joseph Vissarionovich Dzhugashvili (Stalin) - Ossetian

              14. The People’s Commissariat for Railway Affairs (26.10.1917 - 24.02.1918)
              Mark Timofeevich Elizarov (8.11.1917/7.01.1918/XNUMX - XNUMX/XNUMX/XNUMX) - Russian

              15. The People’s Commissariat of State Charity (8.11.1917/20.03.1918/XNUMX - XNUMX/XNUMX/XNUMX)
              Alexandra Mikhailovna Kollontai (30.10.1917 - 17.03.1918) - Malorosska

              16. The Supreme Council of the National Economy (VSNH)
              Valerian Valerianovich Osinsky (Obolensky) (December 1.12.1917, 22.03.1918 - March XNUMX, XNUMX) - Great Russian

              Result: Russians - 15 (83%), 1 Jew, 1 Pole, 1 Ossetian.
              1. Hantengri
                Hantengri 16 September 2020 01: 12 New
                +2
                Continued:
                HIGHER BODIES OF PARTY AND STATE AUTHORITIES (1917-1924)

                1. General Secretaries of the Central Committee of the RSDLP (b) -RKP (b)
                Vladimir Ilyich Lenin (Ulyanov) (1912 - 1922) - Great Russian
                Joseph Vissarionovich Stalin (Dzhugashvili) (3.04.1922/5.03.1953/XNUMX - XNUMX/XNUMX/XNUMX) - Ossetian (on his father, on his mother - Georgian)

                2.Chairs of the All-Russian Central Executive Committee (VTsIK) and the Central Executive Committee of the USSR
                Lev Borisovich Kamenev (26.10 - 8.11.1917) - Jew
                Yakov Mikhailovich Sverdlov (8.11.1917/16.03.1919/XNUMX - XNUMX/XNUMX/XNUMX) - Jew
                Mikhail Ivanovich Kalinin (30.03.1919/17.01.1938/XNUMX - XNUMX/XNUMX/XNUMX) - Great Russian

                3. Secretaries of the Central Executive Committee and the Central Executive Committee of the USSR
                Varlam A. Avanesov (28.10.1917/8.07.1918/XNUMX - XNUMX/XNUMX/XNUMX) - Armenian
                Abel Safronovich Yenukidze (8.07.1918/3.03.1935/XNUMX - XNUMX/XNUMX/XNUMX) - Georgian

                HIGHER BODIES OF GOVERNMENT (1917-1924)

                I. COMPOSITION OF THE SOVNARKOM

                1. Chairman - Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin) (26.10.1917 - 21.01.1924) - Great Russian

                2. People's Commissariat of Internal Affairs:
                Alexey Ivanovich Rykov (26.10. - 4.11.1917) - Great Russian
                Grigory Ivanovich Petrovsky (17.11.1917/25.03.1919/XNUMX - XNUMX/XNUMX/XNUMX) - Little Russia
                Felix Edmundovich Dzerzhinsky (30.03.1919 - 6.07.1923) - Pole
                Alexander Georgievich Beloborodov (7.07.1923/13.01.1928/XNUMX - XNUMX/XNUMX/XNUMX) - Great Russia

                3. People's Commissariat of Agriculture
                Vladimir Pavlovich Milyutin (October 26.10 - November 4.11.1917, XNUMX) - Great Russian
                Alexander G. Schlichter (13.11. - 24.11.1917) - Russified German (father: 1/2 German, 1/2 Cossack; mother comes from Ukrainian noblemen)
                Andrey Lukich Kolegaev (25.11.1917/16.03.1918/XNUMX - XNUMX/XNUMX/XNUMX) - Great Russian
                Semen Pafnutievich Sereda (3.04.1918/10.02.1921/XNUMX - XNUMX/XNUMX/XNUMX) - Little Russia
                Valerian Valerianovich Obolensky (Osinsky) (v. 24.03.1921 - 18.01.1922) - Great Russian
                Vasily Grigorievich Yakovenko (18.01.1922/7.07.1923/XNUMX - XNUMX/XNUMX/XNUMX) - Great Russian
                Alexander Petrovich Smirnov (7.07.1923/19.12.1928/XNUMX - XNUMX/XNUMX/XNUMX) - Great Russian

                4. The People's Commissariat of Labor
                Alexander Gavrilovich Shlyapnikov (26.10.1917 - 8.10.1918) - Great Russian
                Vasily Vladimirovich Schmidt (8.10.1918 - 29.11.1928) - Russified German

                5. a) Committee on Naval Affairs (26.10. - 8.11.1917), Council of Military Commissars (8.11. - 26.11.1917):
                Vladimir Alexandrovich Antonov-Ovseenko - maloros
                Pavel Efimovich Dybenko - Little Russian
                Nikolay Vasilievich Krylenko - Great Russian
                b) People's Commissariat for Military and Naval Affairs (26.11.1917 - 20.06.1934)
                Nikolai Ilyich Podvoisky (27.11.1917/14.03.1918/XNUMX - XNUMX/XNUMX/XNUMX) - Little Russia
                Lev Davidovich Trotsky (Bronstein) (14.03.1918 - 26.01.1925) - Jew
                c) People's Commissariat for Maritime Affairs (22.02 - 17.12. 1918)
                Pavel Efimovich Dybenko (22.02. - 15.03.1918) - Little Russia
                Lev Davidovich Trotsky (Bronstein) (6.04. - 17.12.1918) - Jew

                6. a) People's Commissariat of Trade and Industry
                Victor Pavlovich Nogin (26.10. - 4.11.1917) - Great Russian
                Alexander Gavrilovich Shlyapnikov (acting 4.11.1917 - 26.03.1918) - Great Russian
                Vasily Mikhailovich Smirnov (acting 2 - 22.04.1918/XNUMX/XNUMX) - Great Russian
                Mechislav Genrikovich Bronsky (acting April 22.04. - May 9.05.1918, XNUMX) - Pole
                Leonid Borisovich Krasin (14.05.1918/12.06.1920/XNUMX - XNUMX/XNUMX/XNUMX) - Great Russian
                12.06.1920/XNUMX/XNUMX transformed into the People's Commissariat of Foreign Trade
                b) People's Commissariat of Foreign Trade (1920 - 91)
                Leonid Borisovich Krasin (12.06.1920/18.11.1925/XNUMX - XNUMX/XNUMX/XNUMX) - Great Russian
                c) The Commission on Internal Trade at the Service Station (24.12.1922/9.05.1924/9.05.1924 - 18.11.1925/XNUMX/XNUMX), People's Commissariat of Internal Trade of the USSR (XNUMX/XNUMX/XNUMX - XNUMX/XNUMX/XNUMX)
                Andrey Matveevich Lezhava (24.12.1922/9.05.1924/9.05 - 17.12.1924/XNUMX/XNUMX) (XNUMX/XNUMX/XNUMX/XNUMX/XNUMX) - Georgian
                Aron Lvovich Sheinman (17.12.1924/18.11.1925/XNUMX - XNUMX/XNUMX/XNUMX) - Jew

                7. People's Commissar of Education
                Anatoly Vasilievich Lunacharsky (family member for the present father - Antonov) (26.10.1917/12.09.1929/XNUMX - XNUMX/XNUMX/XNUMX) - Great Russian
                1. Hantengri
                  Hantengri 16 September 2020 01: 14 New
                  +2
                  Next:
                  8. People's Commissariat of Finance
                  Ivan Ivanovich Skvortsov-Stepanov (26.10.1917 - 20.01.1918) - Great Russian
                  Vyacheslav Rudolfovich Menzhinsky (January 20.01 - March 28.03.1918, XNUMX) - Pole
                  Isidor Emanuilovich Gukovsky (2.04. - 16.08.1918) - Jew (?)
                  Nikolai Nikolaevich Krestinsky (16.08.1918 - 10.10.1922) - Little Russia
                  Grigory Yakovlevich Sokolnikov (Diamond) (10.10.1922/16.01.1926/XNUMX - XNUMX/XNUMX/XNUMX) - Jew

                  9. People's Commissariat of Foreign Affairs:
                  Lev Davidovich Trotsky (Bronstein) (26.10.1917 - 8.04.1918) - Jew
                  Georgy Vasilyevich Chicherin (9.04.1918/25.07.1930/XNUMX - XNUMX/XNUMX/XNUMX) - Great Russian (mother from a clan of German noblemen)

                  10. People's Commissariat of Justice
                  Georgy Ippolitovich Lomov-Oppokov (26.10 - 9.12.1917) - Great Russian
                  Isaac Zakharovich Steinberg (9.12.1917/16.03.1918/XNUMX - XNUMX/XNUMX/XNUMX) - Jew
                  Petr Ivanovich Stuchka (18.03/22.08.1918 - XNUMX/XNUMX/XNUMX) - Russified Latvian
                  Dmitry Ivanovich Kursky (22.08.1918/18.02.1928/XNUMX - XNUMX/XNUMX/XNUMX) - Great Russian

                  11. People's Commissariat of Food
                  Ivan Adolfovich Teodorovich (26.10 - 4.11.1917) - Pole
                  Alexander Grigorievich Schlichter (18.12.1917/24.02.1918/XNUMX - XNUMX/XNUMX/XNUMX) - Russified German
                  Alexander Dmitrievich Tsyurupa (25.02.1918 - 12.12.1921) - Little Russia
                  Nikolai Pavlovich Bryukhanov (12.12.1921 - 9.05.1924) - Great Russian

                  12. The People's Commissar of Posts and Telegraphs
                  Nikolai Pavlovich Glebov (Avilov) (26.10 - 9.12.1917) - Great Russian
                  Prosh Perchevich Proshyan (9.12.1917/16.03.1918/XNUMX - XNUMX/XNUMX/XNUMX) - Armenian
                  Vadim Nikolaevich Podbelsky (11.04.1918/25.02.1920/XNUMX - XNUMX/XNUMX/XNUMX) - Great Russian
                  Artemy Moiseevich Lyubovich (24.03.1920 - 26.05.1921) (12.11.1927 - 14.01.1928) - Jew
                  Valerian Savelievich Dovgalevsky (26.05.1921 - 6.07.1923) - Russian
                  Ivan Nikitich Smirnov (6.07.1923/6.10.1927/XNUMX - XNUMX/XNUMX/XNUMX) - Great Russian

                  13. The People’s Commissariat for Nationalities (People’s Commissariat) of the RSFSR (1917–23).
                  Joseph Vissarionovich Dzhugashvili (Stalin) - Ossetian

                  14. a) People's Commissariat for Railway Affairs (26.10.1917 - 24.02.1918)
                  Mark Timofeevich Elizarov (8.11.1917/7.01.1918/XNUMX - XNUMX/XNUMX/XNUMX) - Russian
                  b) People's Commissariat of Railways (24.02.1918 - 15.03.1946)
                  Alexey Gavrilovich Rogov (24.02. - 9.05.1918) - Great Russian
                  Petr Alekseevich Kobozev (9.05. - 24.06.1918) - Great Russian
                  Vladimir Ivanovich Nevsky (Krivobokov) (25.07.1918 - 15.03.1919) - Great Russian
                  Leonid Borisovich Krasin (30.03.1919/20.03.1920/XNUMX - XNUMX/XNUMX/XNUMX) - Great Russian
                  Lev Davidovich Trotsky (Bronstein) (acting 20.03. - 10.12.1920) - Jew
                  Alexander Ivanovich Emshanov (10.12.1920/14.04.1921/XNUMX - XNUMX/XNUMX/XNUMX) - Great Russian
                  Felix Edmundovich Dzerzhinsky (14.04.1921 - 2.02.1924) - Pole
                  Jan Ernestovich Rudzutak (2.02.1924/11.06.1930/XNUMX - XNUMX/XNUMX/XNUMX) - Latvian

                  15. a) People’s Commissariat of State Charity (8.11.1917/20.03.1918/XNUMX - XNUMX/XNUMX/XNUMX)
                  Alexandra Mikhailovna Kollontai (30.10.1917/17.03.1918/XNUMX - XNUMX/XNUMX/XNUMX) - Malorosska (father, mother - Finnish)
                  b) People's Commissariat of Social Security (1918 - 1991)
                  Alexander Nikolaevich Vinokurov (20.03.1918/30.06.1921/XNUMX - XNUMX/XNUMX/XNUMX) - Great Russia
                  Nikolai Alexandrovich Milyutin (acting 14.04.1921/29.12.1924/XNUMX - XNUMX/XNUMX/XNUMX) - Great Russian
                  Vasily Grigorievich Yakovenko (29.12.1924/2.10.1926/XNUMX - XNUMX/XNUMX/XNUMX) - Great Russian

                  16. People's Commissariat of State Property of the RSFSR
                  Vladimir Alexandrovich Karelin 9.12.1917/16.03.1918/XNUMX - XNUMX/XNUMX/XNUMX) - Great Russian
                  Petr Petrovich Malinovsky (acting 18.03. - 7.04.1918) - Russian

                  17. People's Commissariat of Local Government of the RSFSR
                  Vladimir Efimovich Trutovsky (19.12.1917/12.06.1918/XNUMX - XNUMX/XNUMX/XNUMX) - Russian

                  18. a) People's Commissariat of State Control of the RSFSR
                  Karl Ivanovich Lander (9.05.1918/25.03.1919/XNUMX - XNUMX/XNUMX/XNUMX) -? (Baltic German or Jew)
                  Joseph Vissarionovich Stalin (Dzhugashvili) (30.03.1919/7.02.1920/XNUMX - XNUMX/XNUMX/XNUMX) - Ossetian
                  b) People’s Commissariat of the Workers and Peasants Inspection (Rabkrin) of the RSFSR (7.02.1920/34/XNUMX - XNUMX)
                  Since July 6.07.1923, XNUMX, an association with the Center. control Commission of the CPSU (b)
                  to the apparatus of the Central Control Commission-RCT.
                  Joseph Vissarionovich Stalin (Dzhugashvili) (24.02.1920/25.04.1922/XNUMX - XNUMX/XNUMX/XNUMX) - Ossetian
                  Alexander Dmitrievich Tsyurupa (25.04.1922 - 6.07.1923) - Little Russia
                  Valerian Vladimirovich Kuibyshev (6.07.1923/5.11.1926/XNUMX - XNUMX/XNUMX/XNUMX) - Great Russia

                  19. People's Commissariat of Health
                  Alexander Nikolaevich Vinokurov (previous Board of Medical Colleges 21.01/27.06.1918/XNUMX - XNUMX/XNUMX/XNUMX) - Great Russian
                  Nikolai Aleksandrovich Semashko (11.07.1918/25.01.1930/XNUMX - XNUMX/XNUMX/XNUMX) - Great Russian

                  II. VChK-GPU-OGPU
                  Felix Edmundovich Dzerzhinsky (20.12.1917/6.07.1918/22.08.1918 - 20.07.1926/XNUMX/XNUMX) (XNUMX/XNUMX/XNUMX - XNUMX/XNUMX/XNUMX) - Pole
                  Yakov Khristoforovich Peters (acting July 8.07, 22.08.1918 - August XNUMX, XNUMX) - Latvian

                  III. COUNCIL OF WORKING AND PEASANT DEFENSE (COUNCIL OF LABOR AND DEFENSE since 1920)
                  Vladimir Ilyich Lenin (Ulyanov) (30.11.1918/21.01.1924/12.12.1922 - XNUMX/XNUMX/XNUMX, fact. Until XNUMX/XNUMX/XNUMX) - Great Russian

                  IV. Supreme Council of the National Economy (VSNH) (1917 - 32)
                  Valerian Valerianovich Osinsky (Obolensky) (December 1.12.1917, 22.03.1918 - March XNUMX, XNUMX) - Great Russian
                  Vladimir Pavlovich Milyutin (b. 23.03. - 3.04.1918) - Great Russian
                  Alexey Ivanovich Rykov (3.04.1918/6.05.1921/6.07.1923 - 1.02.1924/XNUMX/XNUMX) (XNUMX/XNUMX/XNUMX - XNUMX/XNUMX/XNUMX) - Great Russian
                  Petr Alekseevich Bogdanov (8.05.1921/6.07.1923/XNUMX - XNUMX/XNUMX/XNUMX) - Great Russian
                  Felix Edmundovich Dzerzhinsky (2.02.1924 - 20.07.1926) - Pole

                  V. a) Commissars of the People's Bank of the RSFSR (12.11.1917/19.01.1920/XNUMX - XNUMX/XNUMX/XNUMX)
                  Valerian Valerianovich Obolensky (Osinsky) (31.10. - 3.12.1917) - Great Russian
                  Yuri Leonidovich Pyatakov (3.12.1917/4.06.1918/3.06.1929 - 18.10.1930/XNUMX/XNUMX) (XNUMX/XNUMX/XNUMX - XNUMX/XNUMX/XNUMX) - Great Russian
                  Nikolai Nikolaevich Krestinsky (acting 06.1918) - Little Russia
                  Nikolai Vladimirovich Nikolaev (acting 06.1918) - Great Russian
                  Yakov Stanislavovich Ganetsky (Furstenberg) (acting 07.1918 - 19.01.1920) - Pole
                  b) the chairmen of the State. Bank of the RSFSR (12.10.1921/6.07.1923/XNUMX - XNUMX/XNUMX/XNUMX)
                  Aron Lvovich Sheinman (13.10.1921/17.12.1924/17.01.1926 - 2.06.1929/XNUMX/XNUMX) (XNUMX/XNUMX/XNUMX - XNUMX/XNUMX/XNUMX) - a Jew
                  Nikolai Gavrilovich Tumanov (17.12.1924/16.01.1926/XNUMX - XNUMX/XNUMX/XNUMX) - Great Russian

                  VI. Gosplan (1921 - 1991)
                  Gleb Maksimilianovich Krzhizhanovsky (23.02.1921/11.12.1923/20.11.1925 - 10.11.1930/XNUMX/XNUMX), (XNUMX/XNUMX/XNUMX - XNUMX/XNUMX/XNUMX) - Great Russian
                  Alexander Dmitrievich Tsyurupa (11.12.1923 - 18.11.1925) - Little Russia

                  VII. Central Statistical Bureau (CSB)
                  Pavel Ilyich Popov (25.07.1918 - 5.01.1926) - Great Russian

                  Viii. Supreme Council of Physical Culture (VSFC) at the All-Russian Central Executive Committee
                  Konstantin Alexandrovich Mekhonoshin (1923 - 26) - Great Russian

                  IX. Chairman of the Supreme Court of the USSR
                  Alexander Nikolaevich Vinokurov (14.03.1924/17.08.1938/XNUMX - XNUMX/XNUMX/XNUMX) - Great Russia

                  X. Prosecutors Top. Ships of the USSR
                  Peter Ananyevich Krasikov (15.03.1924/20.06.1933/XNUMX - XNUMX/XNUMX/XNUMX) - Great Russian

                  Outcome: of all the mentioned figures (72): Russians (Great Russians, Little Russians, Belarusians) - 48 (67%), Jews - 8 (11%), Poles - 5 (7%), 3 Latvians, 2 Russified Germans, 2 Armenians , 2 Georgians, 1 Ossetians and 1 in doubt.
                  Sources: http://www.genealogia.ru/ru/lib/catalog/rulers/3.htm, electronic encyclopedias, genealogical reference books (www.vgd.ru), etc.
              2. Bar1
                Bar1 16 September 2020 07: 58 New
                -3

                Is Putin lying?
                and this is Lunacharsky, the velikoros? laughing



                having lied once, who will believe you?
                1. Hantengri
                  Hantengri 16 September 2020 10: 32 New
                  +2
                  Quote: Bar1
                  and this is Lunacharsky, the velikoros?

                  We assign Jewishness to everyone whom the left heel points to? A good method! lol
                  Anatoly Lunacharsky was born in 1875 in Poltava, from the extramarital affairs of the actual state councilor Alexander Ivanovich Antonov (1829-1885) and Alexandra Yakovlevna Rostovtseva (1842-1914), the daughter of Ya. P. Rostovtsev. The patronymic, surname and rank of nobility were received by Lunacharsky from his stepfather, Vasily Fedorovich Lunacharsky, whose surname, in turn, is the result of a rearrangement of syllables in the surname Charnolusky [2] (derived from the noble family Charnolussky).
                  (Aunt Vika)
                  1. Bar1
                    Bar1 16 September 2020 13: 31 New
                    -2
                    Quote: HanTengri
                    We assign Jewishness to everyone whom the left heel points to? A good method!

                    No, just look in the face and it becomes visible whether it is Rus or Nerus.
        2. Sugar Honeyovich
          Sugar Honeyovich 15 September 2020 17: 40 New
          +5
          "Putin said" and "This corresponds to reality" are incompatible concepts. lol
        3. Graz
          Graz 15 September 2020 20: 24 New
          +3
          the White Guards fought for the rights of a small stratum of the population, the Bolsheviks were ideological then, this is not yet the party nomenclature after Stalin's, these fought precisely for the rights of the absolute majority of the oppressed people
        4. 210ox
          210ox 16 September 2020 15: 49 New
          +1
          Putin says a lot. Even sometimes not "in the subject" For example, about the notorious "Soviet galoshes".
      2. Free wind
        Free wind 15 September 2020 13: 09 New
        +4
        Yes, they did not crunch the rolls, they actively stirred the rolls, and the Wrangel did not care who was an ally, as long as it was against the Bolsheviks, and to keep the power.
      3. antivirus
        antivirus 15 September 2020 14: 33 New
        -2
        support you-
        father studied at Yves Energy Inst and "lived, 3 students in an apartment in 52-55 years, on the Workers' Village", it is nearby. "The owner of the house was Konnik-Chapaevite, came with Furmanov, Ivanovo weavers"
        There were 2 rooms in the house, in one of the owners (I remember by association that Gorky’s grandfather and grandmother are small. Puny (?) As it should be for a jockey rider — it’s easier for a horse, a grandmother is a large, tall, high-born), 2 sons grew up and lived separately already, their room was rented out. in 55 g, dormitories were built on the Paris Commune, and resettled there.
        I didn’t write it down and, after several years, I forgot the names of the owners of the square.
        "He said," they did everything right. so now we live like that. "I understand how --- I was pleased with my life in the 50s and my life.

        father showed
        GESTURE (ALL YOUR (them) HATE AND ALL RUSSIAN 20 CENTURY) ------

        !!! fist from chest level vertically down, like a saber from a saddle on foot !!!

        It is necessary to look at the living conditions in the center of Russia which supported the Bolsheviks.
        They fought for the lives of their children (each), saved from hunger and disease.
        The north, the less likely it is to survive the winter without Tambov bread.
        there was no single nation, the process of creating a Russian-Russian nation has not been completed yet.
        Reply
        Quote Complaint
        1. rich
          rich 15 September 2020 16: 01 New
          +1
          father studied at Yves Energo inst and "lived, 3 students in an apartment in 52-55, in the Workers' settlement",

          Familiar places. I lived there until I was 12. VCh rented an apartment for our family in a 2-storey brick building on the corner of Pochtovaya and Kuznetsov, opposite the Pharmaceutical School. brother, like your father, also studied at IEI, though in the 80s
          1. rich
            rich 15 September 2020 16: 37 New
            +2
            The owner of the house was a horseman, a Chapaei, Ivanovo weavers came with Furmanov "

            Here is exactly the opposite. The backbone of the 25th Chapayev division was made up of Ivanovo-Voznesensk workers. - that's why Furmanov was sent there as a commissioner. ... I remember that a veteran Chapaevite came to our school - not a word about Furmanov, but he spoke very respectfully about Gurkovsky and Bubents - these are the real commissars we had, and not those who "with a wife, a chest of drawers and a ficus."
    2. Catfish
      Catfish 15 September 2020 11: 13 New
      +4
      And this is nothing that the Reds had completely outspoken gangs under the command of the ataman "Bat'ka Makhno" as their allies, of which the Reds, after the need had expired, were massacred. laughing
      1. hohol95
        hohol95 15 September 2020 11: 55 New
        12
        Then we must remember the 54th regiment of Misha Yaponchik (real name - Moyshe-Yankel Meer-Volfovich Vinnytsky).
        Only the people of the Japanese were in only one battle, and the people of Makhno fought much longer and more productively!
        They can be compared with the gangs of Cossacks whom Ivan the Terrible pardoned for robberies.
        And then, for this mercy, he threw him into the heat of the Livonian War!
        1. Catfish
          Catfish 15 September 2020 12: 14 New
          +5
          They can be compared to mobs of Cossacks

          Of course you can - both of them loved to rob. laughing
          1. hohol95
            hohol95 15 September 2020 12: 21 New
            +7
            And you can also compare the actions of the central government. To understand and to forgive. Send to war. Throw in the hottest battles! Clean out the rest!
            I don't think other countries would have acted differently.
            Nobody would feed such an audience with gingerbread.
            1. Catfish
              Catfish 15 September 2020 12: 42 New
              +1
              I do not want to judge either one or the other, or the third - the civil war is a terrible tragedy, and everyone has their own truth. Even by the very end results, we have what we have. request
              1. hohol95
                hohol95 15 September 2020 12: 51 New
                +4
                I totally agree. hi
              2. Lexus
                Lexus 15 September 2020 13: 52 New
                +9
                hi It is already good that the article is not about the "super-ethnos of reptilians". The author is "able".lol
                1. Catfish
                  Catfish 15 September 2020 13: 55 New
                  +3
                  Lyosha, hello! hi drinks
                  It's not evening, surely someone will come with all this nonsense. laughing
                  1. Lexus
                    Lexus 16 September 2020 02: 44 New
                    0
                    Wise Kotyara, you, as always, were right. wink drinks
      2. Undecim
        Undecim 15 September 2020 13: 15 New
        10
        And this is nothing that the Reds had completely outspoken gangs under the command of the ataman "Batka Makhno
        Before you put up labels, it would be nice to familiarize yourself with the topic, otherwise you can get into an uncomfortable position.
        1. Catfish
          Catfish 15 September 2020 13: 28 New
          +1
          The Makhnovists were not a bandit formation? I am wrong? Vic, what particular country did these guys serve?
          1. Undecim
            Undecim 15 September 2020 13: 45 New
            +8
            That is, for you, everyone who is not a serviceman of any state is bandits?
            1. Catfish
              Catfish 15 September 2020 13: 53 New
              +5
              For whom the bandits, for whom the guerrillas, and somewhere paramilitaries.

              Congratulations Vic, one full-time "paraminusator" has joined you. drinks
              1. Undecim
                Undecim 15 September 2020 14: 02 New
                +9
                For whom the bandits, for whom the guerrillas, and somewhere paramilitaries.
                It doesn't work that way. In such cases, it is best to operate with legal documents.
                There is such a thing as a "non-international armed conflict", which also includes a civil war.
                Of course, judging by the caricature of the Makhnovist movement in the film "Walking in Torment", then yes, sheer banditry.
                And who joined me, you say, and what is the unity?
                1. Catfish
                  Catfish 15 September 2020 14: 16 New
                  +3
                  Vic, I do not want to argue and seek arguments at all. "Walking in agony" (the first film) is a wonderful film, but it was filmed based on the book by Alexei Tolstoy, and this writer was still that "truth-bearer". So it is impossible to judge history from movies.
                  And who joined me, you say, and what is the unity?

                  And the devil knows who, they are almost all anonymous here, our minusers. I did not speak about "unity", you slightly poked me with your question, and this type immediately gave me a minus, possibly more than one. I, like any of us, do not give a damn about these disadvantages, but it turned out somehow very synchronously.
                  1. Undecim
                    Undecim 15 September 2020 14: 24 New
                    +8
                    Vic I don't want to argue at all
                    Yes, and I do not want to argue. Simply by virtue of my place of residence, I am somewhat better informed on this issue, including from the direct participants in the events.
                  2. Pane Kohanku
                    Pane Kohanku 15 September 2020 14: 35 New
                    +6
                    Vic, I do not want to argue and seek arguments at all.

                    Uncle Kostya, Viktor Nikolaevich had detailed comments on the Makhnovists as a phenomenon in 2017. hi He then substantiated his position in detail. drinks
                    1. Lexus
                      Lexus 16 September 2020 03: 06 New
                      +2
                      Hi! hi Give the power to the propeller - blow off the "root pod"! lol
                      1. Pane Kohanku
                        Pane Kohanku 16 September 2020 14: 12 New
                        +2
                        Give the power to the propeller - blow off the "root pod"!

                      2. Lexus
                        Lexus 16 September 2020 14: 25 New
                        +3
                        What are you doing there, you decided to cut the bushes? lol
                      3. Pane Kohanku
                        Pane Kohanku 16 September 2020 16: 16 New
                        +2
                        What are you doing there, you decided to cut the bushes?

                        - Carlson, why do you have four fingers on your hand?
                        - You know, Kid, I wanted to scratch my ass somehow in flight ...
                        request
                      4. Lexus
                        Lexus 16 September 2020 16: 33 New
                        +2
                        So, you need to oblige you to grind the screw guard. Until this is done, revoke the airworthiness certificate and pilot's license, and seal and seal the "power plant". lol
                      5. Pane Kohanku
                        Pane Kohanku 16 September 2020 16: 41 New
                        +1
                        Until this is done, revoke the airworthiness certificate and pilot's license and seal the "power plant".

                        You, monster, tell me - take away the fuel! belay both half a liter, moreover, completely! wink
                      6. Lexus
                        Lexus 16 September 2020 16: 46 New
                        +2
                        Pralna - confiscate - you won't fly far on "dry" tanks. drinks
        2. 27091965
          27091965 15 September 2020 18: 47 New
          +3
          Quote: Sea Cat
          And the devil knows who, they are almost all anonymous here, our minusers


          Dear Konstantin, one minus mine, if you have a desire, you can put me, I do not agree with your opinion;
          And this is nothing that the Reds had completely outspoken gangs under the command of the ataman "Batka Makhno"


          The Makhnovists were not a bandit formation? I am wrong?


          I think this scan will answer better for me;
          1. Catfish
            Catfish 15 September 2020 19: 27 New
            +3
            Dear Igor hi You would immediately answer in this way, and there would be no questions. Each of us has his own opinion, you have substantiated yours and I respect him. Putting downsides is not at all my taste, if only for outright rudeness in the spirit of the unforgettable Golovan. So you are a real plus. smile
            1. 27091965
              27091965 15 September 2020 20: 52 New
              +2
              Quote: Sea Cat
              So you are a real plus.


              Thanks for the answer. You too + hi
            2. Catfish
              Catfish 15 September 2020 20: 56 New
              +2
              That's good, it's always better to find a common language, right? smile
            3. 27091965
              27091965 16 September 2020 10: 54 New
              +1
              Quote: Sea Cat
              That's good, it's always better to find a common language, right?


              Discussions should not contain rudeness and insults, if they appear, then this is not a discussion, but a "bazaar dispute" of traders. drinks
            4. Catfish
              Catfish 16 September 2020 11: 30 New
              +1
              Totally agree with you. drinks
  • Krasnodar
    Krasnodar 15 September 2020 14: 51 New
    +4
    Quote: Sea Cat
    For whom the bandits, for whom the guerrillas, and somewhere paramilitaries.
    [Center][/ Center

    Greetings, Konstantin! Does the fourth and fifth from the left have Galili 7,62?
    1. Catfish
      Catfish 15 September 2020 16: 21 New
      +3
      Good afternoon, Albert!
      It looks like it was Galil AR chambered for 7,62x51mm.

      There was another one for the "seven" - Galil ACE 32 chambered for 7,62x39

      The two on the far left have AKMS, most likely the Chinese, or Yugoslavs. And at the far right is M-16.
      1. Krasnodar
        Krasnodar 15 September 2020 22: 46 New
        0
        M-16, a shortened floor, is understandable, the reservist himself had Glilon 5,56, but 7,62 Galil did not see laughing
        1. Catfish
          Catfish 15 September 2020 22: 52 New
          +1
          And I just twisted Galil in my hands - he is Kalash, only more comfortable than ours. The guys in the storehouse of the Museum of the Armed Forces had several pieces of "trophy" under 5,56 NATO, but, of course, they didn't manage to shoot.
          1. Krasnodar
            Krasnodar 16 September 2020 00: 10 New
            +1
            In the IDF, they were all in my time under 5.56 NATO. )) What the police have now - I don't know, they write that the trick is for "internal security."
  • Lexus
    Lexus 16 September 2020 02: 52 New
    0
    Congratulations Vic, one full-time "paraminusator" has joined you.

    "Cornesos" right here "stuck around" you. No wonder - small lice are always drawn to LARGE ones. laughing If you want to get rid - I know how. Go to PM! (Censored)wink
  • The comment was deleted.
    1. Undecim
      Undecim 15 September 2020 13: 50 New
      +5
      Oh, there is such an interesting collision! You see, Alexey, I myself am with Shpakovsky, let's say, on friendly terms, although I criticize him quite often. However, I don't have any preferences on the site from such a relationship with it, if you mean it.
  • Doliva63
    Doliva63 15 September 2020 18: 40 New
    +3
    Quote: Sea Cat
    And this is nothing that the Reds had completely outspoken gangs under the command of the ataman "Bat'ka Makhno" as their allies, of which the Reds, after the need had expired, were massacred. laughing

    Nothing. Civil war, however. And, by the way, about "cut at the root" - a lie. While my grandmother fought in the Kotovsky brigade, her brother ("Uncle Kolya") fought in the ranks of Makhno. Uncle Kolya retired from the post of Chairman of the State Bank of Moldova under Brezhnev. Normally "cut out" laughing
  • Paul Siebert
    Paul Siebert 15 September 2020 13: 07 New
    +7
    Alexander, I know - you are my ardent opponent. And always pounce on me like a leopard.
    But understand me. The most terrible event of the XNUMXth century is not an imperialistic war, nor is it the second world war.
    The worst war is the Civil War.
    Where the Russians killed the Russians. 15 million. How does it feel?
    My family is Ural. From a small town.
    Merchants, a very big family.
    Half of the sons of the officers fought at the front. Faithfully and truly ..
    Another in the rear was imbued with Marxism.
    As a result, they met in a battle near Buguruslan. Two were killed.
    In battle with each other.
    One died after the fight.
    The Reds took over the city. And he remained Russian.
    What for?
    1. Catfish
      Catfish 15 September 2020 13: 37 New
      +5
      He will not really answer you, during the distribution of brains something went wrong and, with people like him, it makes no sense to have an adequate conversation.
      My people, too, were divided, according to their fathers they all fought in Krasnaya, according to their mothers - in Belaya, both died in the same way, and in the same way, those who remained were transferred to the camps at the end of the thirties. Both were "rescued" on June 22, not all survived the war, but the survivors returned home in officer's shoulder straps and with a solid set of awards. And "red" and "white", Adolf reconciled.
      1. Paul Siebert
        Paul Siebert 15 September 2020 17: 01 New
        +5
        Thank you, Kostya, for your understanding! hi
        1. Catfish
          Catfish 15 September 2020 17: 38 New
          +5
          Not at all, buddy. smile I am always glad to support a reasonable person. And it is useless to explain the obvious to these individuals, they are happy in their hole - well, okay, they don't make the weather.
    2. Varyag_0711
      Varyag_0711 15 September 2020 13: 41 New
      +1
      Paul Siebert
      The worst war is the Civil War.
      Who would argue.
      Where the Russians killed the Russians. 15 million. How does it feel?
      Write already 150 million, paper will endure everything, and even more so the monitor.
      My family is Ural. From a small town. Merchants.
      I wanted to sympathize, but after the "merchants" I somehow got sick.
      Half of the sons of the officers fought at the front. Faithfully and truly ..
      Another in the rear was imbued with Marxism.
      From byad ... And aliens probably brought Marxism to us, and it was not the tsar who prepared the soil for it and his henchmen ?!
      The Reds took over the city. And he remained Russian.
      I didn't understand the allegory, but what was he supposed to become? German?
      What for?
      Of course, WHY? Why did people tired of eternal slavery and not justice want freedom and equality for everyone, and not for the elect, including merchants? Wow ...? Have you ever wondered what an ordinary Russian peasant or worker felt, who were driven into debt by these very merchants? Not? Or do you really think that your ancestors were white and fluffy and did not harm anyone?
      1. Paul Siebert
        Paul Siebert 15 September 2020 17: 04 New
        +1
        Alexey, just pay off your loan debts ... yes
    3. Olgovich
      Olgovich 16 September 2020 05: 58 New
      -2
      Quote: Paul Siebert
      Alexander, I know - you are my ardent opponent. And always pounce on me like a leopard.
      But understand me. The most terrible event of the XNUMXth century is not an imperialistic war, nor is it the second world war.
      The worst war is the Civil War.
      Where the Russians killed the Russians. 15 million. How does it feel?
      My family is Ural. From a small town.
      Merchants, a very big family.
      Half of the sons of the officers fought at the front. Faithfully and truly ..
      Another in the rear was imbued with Marxism.
      As a result, they met in a battle near Buguruslan. Two were killed.
      In battle with each other.
      One died after the fight.
      The Reds took over the city. And he remained Russian.
      What for?

      Moved by your comment: yes, GW is a wild, terrible tragedy.

      And there is no petition to those who unleashed it: instead of reaching a compromise and agreement of all through negotiations and work in the national Constituent Assembly, they tried to impose by force only their "truth." And it began ...
  • Sneaky Urus
    Sneaky Urus 16 September 2020 10: 23 New
    0
    do not excrement your deep ignorance in the form of a message.
  • rich
    rich 15 September 2020 05: 34 New
    +7
    Savinkov in Poland began to create the 3rd Russian Army

    On September 4, 1920, the Russian army of General P.N. Wrangel was divided into the 1st and 2nd armies. The Russian troops in Poland, formed by B.V.Savinkov on behalf of the Russian Political Committee, after transferring to the subordination of Wrangel, received the name of the 3rd Army. Since during its entire existence the army was located on the territory controlled by the Polish and Ukrainian troops, it was most often called the 3rd Russian army.
    The army was based on the formations created by B.V.Savinkov on behalf of the Russian Political Committee after an agreement reached with the head of Poland Yu. Pilsudski on June 23, 1920. They were necessary for the Poles to impart an anti-Bolshevik character to the Soviet-Polish war, which by that time had taken an unfavorable turn for them. The first order on the Russian detachment in Poland was issued in Brest on July 1, 1920 by Lieutenant General P.V. Glazenap. The composition of the Russian detachment was initially determined in three infantry and one cavalry regiment, an artillery division plus auxiliary units, with a total strength of no more than 5000 people. In August, it was decided to create a separate cavalry division of a three-regimental composition from the Cossacks who had fled from the Red Army to the Polish side. The formation of the 2nd Rifle Division began. On September 13, the formation consisted of 4224 soldiers, officers and military officials.
    Composition (as of October 2, 1920)
    Commander - Lieutenant General B.S.Permikin
    1st Rifle Division (Major General L.A. Boboshko) - 3414 people:
    1st Rifle Regiment (regiment P. L. Rogozhinsky) - 600 people.
    2nd Rifle Regiment (Colonel A. Yu. Saulevich) - 667 people.
    3rd Rifle Regiment (Colonel V.A.Zaitsev) - 584 people.
    Horse regiment (regiment A. L. Shirinkin) - 599 people.
    1st artillery battalion (Colonel Krasovsky) - 648 people.
    Technical battalion (Lieutenant Colonel Medvedev) - 267 people.
    Officer machine gun school (regiment B. Iznar) - 49 people.
    2nd Infantry Division (Lieutenant General Count A.P. Palen):
    5th Rifle Regiment (regiment N. Javrov)
    6th Rifle Regiment (regiment N.V. Rossinsky)
    7th Rifle Regiment (regiment Baron Ungern)
    2nd artillery battalion (Colonel G. W. Bushen)
    Separate Cossack Division (Major General V.A.Trusov) - 2091 people:
    1st Don Cossack Regiment (regiment. Voloshinov) - 637 people.
    Orenburg Cossack regiment (drove up Kh. Bek-Mamdzhiev) - 572 people.
    Ural Cossack regiment (regiment P. A. Sidorovnin) - 643 people.
    1st Horse Battery (Esaul Konkov) - 239 people.
    Subsequently, the Cossack brigade of Esaul Salnikov was included in the army as part of the Cossack regiment and a separate battery
    1. rich
      rich 15 September 2020 05: 36 New
      +7
      In early October 1920, the withdrawal of units of the 3rd Russian army to the front began, but on October 18, 1920, the Polish-Soviet armistice entered into force. The fighting was continued by the Army of the Ukrainian People's Republic, to which units of the 3rd Russian army were withdrawn. In November 1920, the Ukrainians and Russians jointly tried to launch an offensive in the Podolsk province, but were defeated and forced to retreat to Polish territory, where they were interned. In 1921, the army was transformed into Detachment No. 2 (Detachment No. 1 is the former Russian People's Volunteer Army of Balakhovich), after which its demobilization began
      1. rich
        rich 15 September 2020 05: 52 New
        11
        The 3rd Russian Army of Permikin was considered exactly Russian, and detachment No. 1 - RNDA Bulak-Balakhovich - was Belarusian.
        The reason for this was Bulak-Balakhovich's sudden realization of his roots, or, more precisely, the fact that the Poles were ready to finance his RNDA directly and recognize it as an allied one precisely as Belarusian. Still, Warsaw tried to the last to prevent the creation of a consolidated Russian anti-Soviet movement, fearing that it would defeat the Bolsheviks and again make Poland the Warsaw General Government.
        At the same time, Pilsudski did not experience any illusions about Bulak-Balakhovich, saying about him:

        "Yes, a bandit, but not only a bandit, but a person who is Russian today, Pole tomorrow, Belarusian the day after tomorrow, and a Negro the next day."
        During the Soviet-Polish war, Bulak-Balakhovich managed to show his Belarusianness in 1920, creating a Belarusian civil organization, with the help of the Belarusian Political Committee (BPC). In Mozyr, occupied by the Poles, Bulak-Balakhovich performed under the white-red-white banner of the BNR, forming a civil administration, but his epic did not last long: from mid-October to November 1920.
        The attempt to revive the Belarusian statehood was caused by the fact that the Polish authorities, under diplomatic pressure from England and the RSFSR, decided to disband the “allied” Russian, Belarusian and Ukrainian units. To avoid this, the Balakhovites entered Mozyr and made their own attempt to revive the BNR, but were defeated by the Red Army and retreated back to Poland.
        After the Soviet-Polish war, the 3rd Russian Army of Permikin was abandoned by the Poles to fend for themselves: Permikin himself moved to Paris, and some officers and soldiers of this organization were even extradited by the Polish authorities in the RSFSR to certain death in the basements of the Cheka, but Bulak-Balakhovich received the rank general of the Polish army and a forest concession in Belovezhskaya Pushcha.
        During the Nazi occupation of Poland, Bulak-Balakhovich created a partisan detachment and was killed in 1940 by a patrol while checking documents. Permikin, who fought with him in Pskov and Poland, by the way, became a general of the ROA
        1. rich
          rich 15 September 2020 05: 58 New
          +6
          S.N. Bulak-Balakhovich with the ranks of his army

          RNDA composition (according to the "USSR Military Encyclopedia"):
          1st Infantry Death Division (regiment L. T. Matveev) - about 4000 people, including 2600 bayonets and sabers
          Consolidated Partisan Regiment (Cap. Voitsekhovsky)
          Pskov Infantry Regiment (Cap.Andreev)
          Ostrovsky Infantry Regiment (Lieutenant Colonel T. I. Zhgun)
          Voznesensky Infantry Regiment (regiment Vasiliev)
          Horse artillery division
          Engineer battalion
          2nd Infantry Division (regiment L.I.Mikosha) - about 4800 people, including 3200 bayonets and sabers)
          Georgievsk Infantry Regiment (Lieutenant Colonel Talat-Kelpsh)
          Minsk Infantry Regiment (Regiment Strizhevsky)
          Smolensk Infantry Regiment
          Vitebsk Infantry Regiment (regiment Erdman)
          Two artillery batteries
          Engineering company
          3rd Volga Infantry Division (Major General M.V. Yaroslavtsev) - 2200 people, including 1500 bayonets
          Yaroslavl Infantry Regiment
          Kazan Infantry Regiment
          Nizhny Novgorod Infantry Regiment
          Samara Infantry Regiment
          Artillery battery
          Cavalry Division (regiment S.E. Pavlovsky) - about 1100 people, including 400 bayonets and 700 sabers
          Equestrian regiment
          Tula Dragoon Regiment
          Ulan regiment
          Hussar regiment (Captain Suikovsky)
          Peasant brigade (Ataman Iskra - I.A.Lokhvitsky) - 1200 bayonets and sabers
          Kiev infantry regiment
          Novgorod-Vladimir-Volynsky infantry regiment
          Putivl Horse Rifle Regiment
          Merkulov's hundred
          Separate parts:
          Don Cossack regiment (regiment G. Dukhopelnikov) - 1200 sabers
          Indigenous Cavalry Regiment (regiment Madatyan) - 100 bayonets and 30 sabers
          Personal hundred of General Bulak-Balakhovich - 120 sabers
          Railway regiment
          Armored train "Balakhovets".
          a photo Balakhovich in Polish uniform
          1. rich
            rich 15 September 2020 06: 03 New
            +8
            Interesting fact
            In June 1917, amid the revolutionary disintegration of the army, the soldiers' committee elected Bulak-Balakhovich as squadron commander. According to his own statement, after that he was in Petrograd on treatment, but by October 1917 for some reason he found himself far in the rear - in Luga, where he formed a detachment with some of his former soldiers and took control of the immediate vicinity. Here he also learned about the formation of the Polish Uhlan division, in which his brother Jozef was appointed commander of the 1st squadron. However, the Bolsheviks considered the Polish military unit too dangerous and disarmed (after having shot its commander Tadeusz Przysecki).
            At the same time, due to the lack of real forces, the Bolsheviks decided to legalize Balakhovich's detachment, appointing him commander of the Luga Partisan (1st Cavalry) Regiment.
            By order of Trotsky, People's Commissar for Military Affairs, Balakhovich's regiment participated in the suppression of peasant uprisings. Gradually, he began to cause more and more dislike among the Reds, for the provocative brutality of work in the village and embezzlement, which served as the basis for the decision to arrest him. As a result, in early November 1918 Balakhovich decided to go to white
            1. rich
              rich 15 September 2020 06: 15 New
              +7
              There was no particular anti-Soviet Belarusian movement during the Civil War.
              Why? Before the revolution, Belarusian nationalism did not manage to develop into an independent political force, like their Ukrainian colleagues. The reason was that the development of the Belarusian nationalist movement began later than that of the Ukrainians.
              In addition, the Ukrainian independenceists had Galicia, which was part of Austria-Hungary. Official Vienna encouraged the Ukrainian national movement. The Belarusians did not have such an enclave on the territory of a state rival with Russia.
              For this reason, only an unscrupulous adventurer Bulak-Balakhovich, an inconspicuous romanticist Ruzhantsov and a conscious Belarusian Socialist-Revolutionary Zhavrid fought in the Civil War under the banner of the BNR. The latter, however, then went over to the side of the Soviet regime, against which he fought, and did this largely due to the fact that the rapidly indigenous BSSR surpassed the wildest dreams of any Belarusian nationalist in exile.
              In other words, the Soviet government successfully created what all the aforementioned people aspired to - the Belarusian national state. Even by forceful methods, meeting the resistance of local residents and their rejection of the policy of indigenization.
              1. Olgovich
                Olgovich 15 September 2020 07: 31 New
                -2
                Quote: Rich
                For this reason, only an unscrupulous adventurer Bulak-Balakhovich fought under the banner of the BNR in the Civil War,

                It is imperative to remember. that the so-called "BNR", like their "banner" - "Used Female Pad" - was created by GERMAN OCCUPANTS in 1918.

                And the BSSR created the Central Committee of the All-Union Communist Party of Belarus with ... a NEGATIVE recall of the majority of the leadership and people there.

                Already AFTER the formation of the USSR, the BSSR was increased ... more than TWO TIMES, when, against the will of the citizens of Russia in the Smolensk province, they, like a bag of potatoes, were transferred to the BSSR. So the RUSSIANS Mogilev, Gomel, Vitebsk, Orsha, etc., became non-Russians.
              2. Sergey Oreshin
                Sergey Oreshin 15 September 2020 11: 28 New
                +4
                Dear Dmitry, your comments are many times better and more informative than the scanty and poor abstract of the graphomaniac A. Samsonov!
                In fact, in Russian historiography about the 3rd army and the army of Bulak-Balakhovich, little information can be found
            2. Pane Kohanku
              Pane Kohanku 15 September 2020 14: 43 New
              +3
              Interesting fact
              In June 1917, amid the revolutionary disintegration of the army, the soldiers' committee elected Bulak-Balakhovich as the squadron commander.

              Dmitry! Struck, I bow! good
              I would venture to suggest that Balakhovich is one of the many examples of the so-called. "field commanders" taken out by shocks to leadership positions. EMNIP, before the First World War he was an absolutely civilian, occupying some minor positions, like the estate manager or something like that ... And then - several years passed, and now he is already a general. request If my memory serves me once again, he managed to show his comrades in Pskov. hi And our St. Petersburg publicist Ikonnikov-Galitsky devoted a whole section to him in one of the books, which was called: "Red-white Bulak-Balakhovich".
              Bravo, Dmitry! drinks
          2. rich
            rich 15 September 2020 06: 17 New
            +3
            Memorial plaque in Warsaw

            General of the Polish Army
            Stanislav Bulak-Balakhovich
            1883-1940
            Commander of the Belarusian allied army that fought for the independence of Poland in the war of 1920
            Creator and commander of the Separate Special Group that took part in the defense of Warsaw in September 1939
            After the surrender, the creator of the "Military Confederation"
            killed on May 10, 1940 at Saska Kemp
            1. rich
              rich 15 September 2020 06: 30 New
              +9
              Today Belarusian nationalists are trying to make a hero out of this unprincipled adventurer. For the role of which he is not very suitable. Here, as they say - what Views are such heroes yes
              Fig. Poles in this diligently "sing along"
              A poster made in Poland for Belarus
              1. Victor Red
                Victor Red 15 September 2020 14: 07 New
                +2
                Today Belarusian nationalists are trying to make a hero out of this unprincipled adventurer.

                Here the Old Man leaves and banknotes with the image of Bulak will appear.
  • Olgovich
    Olgovich 15 September 2020 07: 17 New
    -6
    the Makhnovists did not make contact. "Generals" were "counterrevolutionaries" for dad. The Makhnovists were fundamentally opposed to any government, but they were on the same side of the front with the Bolsheviks.

    An outspoken turak: the Makhnovists pulled the chestnuts out of the fire for the Bolsheviks, and after that, they hunted them like wild animals and mercilessly slaughtered them.

    Under the Russian army, he and his peasants would prosper in peace and wealth on their blessed lands of Novorossiya and Little Russia of Russia, and would not die in the millions in countless Bolshevik famines and experiments during convoluted mindless "labor" on collective farms, forcibly transformed into "Ukrainians" .. ...

    Russia and the Russian army for several years, without weapons, factories, supplies, often with their bare hands, selflessly fought against the invaders of power for the freedom of the people (and this struggle never ended), and the Bolsheviks collapsed without a single squeak, in conditions without war and cataclysms and .... no one stood up for them, even their "vanguard" detachment quietly disappeared by itself, crawled away as there was no such hassle ... Sheer ruin ...

    А the banner of the Russian army, the banner of Russia - proudly flies over the country and it is again - the State Banner of Russia! yes
    1. Deniska999
      Deniska999 15 September 2020 08: 40 New
      +6
      It remains only to return the titles of nobility and again everything as in blessed times.
      1. Moskovit
        Moskovit 15 September 2020 08: 57 New
        +3
        This is just the beginning! Restore conversion, your Excellency, corporal punishment for peasants and serfdom!
    2. Sugar Honeyovich
      Sugar Honeyovich 15 September 2020 09: 27 New
      +7
      Quote: Olgovich
      after that, they hunted them like wild beasts and mercilessly slaughtered them.

      What were the whites, if, for all that, the reds were better for the peasants! recourse
      1. Olgovich
        Olgovich 15 September 2020 10: 21 New
        -6
        Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
        Quote: Olgovich
        after that, they hunted them like wild beasts and mercilessly slaughtered them.

        What were the whites, if, for all that, the reds were better for the peasants! recourse

        This was answered by the Small Civil War, raised by the peasantry against the big bandits (the Tambov uprising, in the Volga region, in Siberia and HUNDREDS of others), but it was too late: the bandits had already organized and drowned them in blood - artillery, aviation, massacres, hostages, blackmail and concentration camps.

        Alexander Vasilyevich prophetically warned in his address to him: "Fight now for your freedom, as long as you have cannons, machine guns, an army. Then you will inevitably get up, but there will be nothing ... "
        1. Sugar Honeyovich
          Sugar Honeyovich 15 September 2020 14: 24 New
          +4
          Quote: Olgovich
          This was answered by the Small Civil War, raised by the peasantry

          Even how she answered! Contemporaries correctly noted: "... everyone shouts against the communists, but essentially against the monks, and the commune-monastery itself is recognized as sacred by almost all bourgeoisie." And this is true: in Siberia, it happened that uprisings against the communists stopped before they could start, it was only necessary to hear a rumor that because of this, Alexander Vasilyevich might return. The same one. Or even worse - there will be a hint of the return of the "old regime". Sometimes it acted more efficiently than all artillery, aviation and concentration camps!
          And it is not surprising - the whites in Siberia, that in the same Ukraine, in an extremely intelligible form, made it clear what "peace and wealth" they would give the peasants. To support whites - you have to be not outspoken Turaks, but the most difficult stage of itiyots.
          Again: what were they, the whites, that the whole of Russia stood up against them?
          stop
          1. Olgovich
            Olgovich 15 September 2020 16: 04 New
            -4
            Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
            ... Sometimes it acted more efficiently than all artillery, aircraft and concentration camps

            an empty, meaningless, made-up BATTLE.
            Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
            And it is not surprising - the whites in Siberia, that in the same Ukraine, in an extremely intelligible form, made it clear what kind of "peace and wealth" they would give the peasants

            Much more than the bandits who rewarded the peasants with MILLIONS of starvation over the decades, cannibalism, corpse eating (which were not found anywhere else in the world), millions of links, meaningless hard labor in the so-called. collective farms, disenfranchised without passport, which led, as a result, to the extinction of both people and ABANDONED by 1985 MILLIONS of hectares of arable land and pastures
            Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
            Again: what were they, the whites, that all of Russia stood up against them?

            belay fool lol
            Therefore ("all" of Russia is for you lol ) your ALL your life FEARED / shook - to incontinence and wet pants - OF THE PEOPLE'S CHOICE?
            Shame ....
            1. Sugar Honeyovich
              Sugar Honeyovich 15 September 2020 16: 31 New
              +1
              Quote: Olgovich
              Much more

              Aha, let it slip! The truth cannot be hidden! "Much more" is poorly said. "For one killed by the Bolsheviks, not less than a hundred ..." Therefore, the result is the same.

              Quote: Olgovich
              Therefore ("all" of Russia is for you

              Not all, but the absolute majority - yes. It's just a fact. hi
              1. Olgovich
                Olgovich 15 September 2020 16: 46 New
                -3
                Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
                Aha, let it slip! The truth cannot be hidden! "Much more" is poorly said. "For one killed by the Bolsheviks, not less than a hundred ..." Therefore, the result is the same.

                Again nonsense ... Something weak ": What ... one"?
                Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
                Not all, but the absolute majority - yes. It's just a fact.

                The fact is that the sugar cowardly cowards never held the ELECTION of the people, for they knew very well that torn to shreds.

                such a sugary NOTHING (in every sense) shameful "majority"
                1. Deniska999
                  Deniska999 15 September 2020 17: 46 New
                  +1
                  As if the elections are different now. Five simulacra grown in the presidential administration are being reshuffled with roughly similar results.
                2. Sugar Honeyovich
                  Sugar Honeyovich 15 September 2020 17: 48 New
                  +1
                  Quote: Olgovich
                  knew very well that they would be torn to shreds.

                  If there were elections? Couldn't they have been torn to shreds without elections? fool Indeed: delirium again. On the basis of impotent anger.
                  Quote: Olgovich
                  NOTHING (in every sense) shameful "majority"

                  But compared to that insignificant minority - MOST! In all senses. tongue
                  1. Olgovich
                    Olgovich 16 September 2020 05: 38 New
                    -3
                    Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
                    If there were elections? Couldn't they have been torn to shreds without elections?

                    Of course not.
                    WHEN will you learn the history of your country so as not to carry such a shameful ignorance, huh?

                    there were THOUSANDS of uprisings, performances, brutally suppressed by weapons, terror, blackmail, threats, hunger.

                    В in March 1930 alone, the OGPU counted 6.500 mass demonstrations, of which 800 were suppressed with weapons. In all, during 1930, about 2,5 million peasants took part in 14 uprisings.

                    During the year, only much more than HALF MILLION citizens of the country were shot in peacetime - you tell me WHERE is it like this in the world when it happened?
                    Quote: Sugar Honeyovich

                    But compared to that insignificant minority - MOST! In all senses.

                    There were NO elections to determine the majority and you have no right to LIE about the majority.

                    But the endless LIE and the wild FEAR of the would-be election rulers clearly show it.
                    1. Sugar Honeyovich
                      Sugar Honeyovich 16 September 2020 08: 57 New
                      +1
                      Quote: Olgovich
                      WHEN will you learn the history of your country so as not to carry such a shameful ignorance, huh?

                      I am constantly asking you this question. Receiving no answer, I try to teach you. I bring enlightenment.
                      Thousands of uprisings, speeches were suppressed because the government was supported by the majority of the population, ignorant. Specifically in collectivization, the opponents of collective farms were opposed by the so-called self-defense detachments of collective farmers. With weapons in hand.
                      But against the whites, in whose person they saw the royal power, the majority of the people united in an alliance. It was a choice, liar. The most objective of all possible.
                      1. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 16 September 2020 09: 04 New
                        -1
                        Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
                        Thousands of uprisings, speeches were suppressed because the government was supported by the majority of the population, ignorant.

                        On the table FACTS "support" by the population of the destruction of thousands of peasants, liar! And yes, show, in your FALSE "press" information for the country and the world about these THOUSAND uprisings of the people and their reasons.

                        Come on, Pravda for March 1930. Bistro, bistro!
                        Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
                        But against the whites, in whose person they saw the royal power, the majority of the people united in an alliance. It was a choice, liar. The most objective of all possible.

                        Again, a VANE INvented chatter.

                        ELECTION-there was no, got it, no?
                        Which, in, "is the majority? fool
                      2. Sugar Honeyovich
                        Sugar Honeyovich 16 September 2020 14: 27 New
                        +1
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        On the table FACTS "support" by the population

                        Facts on and around the table to the ceiling, ignorant and liar. Read numerous literature. There was not only support, but such zeal that the authorities were forced to end the local "enthusiasm".
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        ELECTION-NOT, it came, not

                        The choice was, got it, didn't it? Not at all hasty, but carefully weighed, with a scrupulous assessment of all the pros and cons. The most objective. The majority. Fairstein? laughing
                        You didn’t answer what the whites were, that the whole of Russia had rebelled against them? All its peoples and almost all classes? Answer bistro! laughing
                      3. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 16 September 2020 16: 19 New
                        -5
                        Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
                        Facts on and around the table to the ceiling, ignorant and liar. Read numerous literature.

                        On the table FACTS "support" by the population of the destruction of thousands of peasants, liar! And yes, show, in your FALSE "press" information for the country and the world about these THOUSAND uprisings of the people and their reasons.
                        Come on "TRUTH"! angry

                        You can not ? ( imagine). And who are you not,? lol laughing
                        Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
                        The choice was, got it, didn't it? Not at all hasty, but carefully weighed, with a scrupulous assessment of all the pros and cons. The most objective. The majority. Fairstein?

                        Election FACTS - on the table!
                        Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
                        You didn’t answer what the whites were, that the whole of Russia had rebelled against them? All its peoples and almost all classes? Answer bistro!

                        Hope, purpose and the only bright spot against the background of animals that did not stop either in 1920, or later, or later, never.
                      4. Sugar Honeyovich
                        Sugar Honeyovich 16 September 2020 16: 26 New
                        +1
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        And who are you

                        I am your teacher. And the whistleblower. fellow
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Election FACTS - on the table

                        On the table. In front of your nose.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Hope, purpose and the only bright spot against the beasts

                        Are animals the whole of Russia? fool But she considered them beasts. White. negative
  • hermit
    hermit 15 September 2020 09: 40 New
    +5
    Wrangel's actions cannot be called anything other than meaningless. He should sit in Crimea and wait for the Reds to take Warsaw. After which he would have remained the only organized anti-Bolshevik force in the European part of Russia and could count on the support of the Entente. Instead, with his offensive, he helps the Poles, who were pursuing purely aggressive goals. Even a significant part of the emigration did not accept his de facto union with Pilsudski, who did not ask for his help and did not coordinate his actions with the Whites.
    1. Catfish
      Catfish 15 September 2020 11: 28 New
      -2
      Instead, with his offensive, he helps the Poles, who were pursuing purely aggressive goals.

      And ... so it means that the Poles, not the Bolsheviks, attacked with "predatory purposes".
      1. rich
        rich 15 September 2020 16: 58 New
        +2
        Konstantin, I welcome hi

        This picture inspired me with the story of two siblings of admirals - Evgenia and Mikhail Berensah
        One commanded the Red fleet, the other the Wrangel fleet. That's all I know.
        Open up this interesting topic. As a connoisseur of naval topics and maps in hand
        Best regards
        1. Catfish
          Catfish 15 September 2020 18: 04 New
          +4
          Mikhail Andreevich Berens, last rank of Rear Admiral (1879-1943)

          With the rank of captain of the 2nd rank, he commanded the destroyer Novik in the famous battle with two German destroyers. In his novel "Moonzund" Pikul brought him out under the name of Grapf.
          On December 6, 1915 he was promoted to the rank of captain of the 1st rank. On July 30, 1916, he was awarded the Order of St. Vladimir, III degree with swords.
          On November 28, 1916, he was appointed commander of the battleship Petropavlovsk.
          May 2, 1917 appointed and. e. Chief of Staff of Mine Defense of the Baltic Fleet. November 6, 1917, appointed and. Head of the General Medical School.
          1918 (12.01) - dismissed from service without the right to receive a pension.
          1919 (March) left Petrograd for Finland, then - to the Far East, joined Admiral A. V. Kolchak. July 8, 1919 promoted to rear admiral. 1919-1920 - Commander of the forces of the Primorsky Zemstvo Council (Vladivostok)
          1920 - and. about. Commander of the Naval Forces in the Pacific Ocean, on the night of January 31, led the departure of a group of auxiliary ships with midshipmen of the Naval School and refugees from Vladivostok to Tsuruga (China).
          1920 (28.08) - arrived by steamer to Sevastopol at the disposal of General Wrangel.
          1920 (September) - commandant of the Kerch fortress. In the Armed Forces of the South of Russia, before the evacuation of Crimea, he headed the combat activities of the fleet forces in the Sea of ​​Azov, the head of the 2nd (Azov) squadron of the Black Sea Fleet.
          1920 (November 24.11) - junior flagship of the 2nd detachment of the Black Sea squadron
          1920 (December) - one of the leaders of the transition of the Russian squadron from Constantinople to the French naval base Bizerte (Tunisia).
          1921 (January) - October 29, 1924 - Commander of the Russian squadron after the departure of Admiral Kedrov to Paris. He ensured the repair of ships, the preservation of the main personnel and the continuation of the training of midshipmen in the Marine Corps until the disarmament of the squadron after the recognition of the USSR by France on October 29, 1924.
          In exile in France (where he made a living sewing handbags) and Tunisia, he was buried in the cemetery of Megrin.
          On April 30.04.2001, XNUMX, the ashes were transferred to the Borjel cemetery in Tunis. The tombstone, on the initiative of Admiral I. V. Kasatonov, was delivered by a missile cruiser from Russia and was installed with honors on the grave of the Rear Admiral.
          Awards:
          Order of St. Stanislaus 3 class with swords and bow
          Order of St. George, 4th degree, "For distinction in matters against the enemy" (on August 18, 1915, he fought two German destroyers ("V-99" and "V-100") and inflicted severe damage on them, as a result causing one of them to sink.)
          Order of St. Anne 2nd class with swords
          Gold saber with the inscription "For Bravery".


          Evgeny Andreevich Berens (October 30 (November 11) 1876, Tiflis - March 7, 1928, Moscow) - officer of the Russian and Soviet fleet, chief of the Naval General Staff (1917-19), commander of the Workers 'and Peasants' Red Fleet from April 1919 to February 1920 ...
          During the Russo-Japanese War, he was the senior navigator of the cruiser Varyag. Member of the sea battle at Chemulpo.
          Awards:
          Order of St. Stanislaus 2rd degree.
          Order of St. George, 4th class - for the battle at Chemulpo.
          Order of St. Vladimir, 4th degree.
          After the October Revolution, he went over to the side of the Soviet regime. From November 1917 to April 1919 - Chief of the Naval General Staff. In April-August 1918 - member of the Supreme Military Council.
          From April 1919 to February 1920 - Commander of the Naval Forces of the Republic. On his initiative, in the summer of 1919, fleets and flotillas were detached from the fronts and subordinated directly to the commander of the naval forces, new lake and river flotillas were created, which provided substantial assistance to the units of the Red Army.
          In 1920 - a member of the Soviet delegation at the conclusion of the Tartu Peace Treaty with Finland, participated as a naval expert in the work of the Soviet delegation at the Genoa Conference, the Lausanne Conference and the Riga Conference.
          From 1924 - the USSR naval attaché in Great Britain, and from 1925 - in France.

          He died in 1928 in Moscow. He was buried at the Novodevichy cemetery.
          1. Sergey Oreshin
            Sergey Oreshin 15 September 2020 18: 30 New
            +2
            Yes, here is a graphic illustration of the Civil War: brother against brother ...
          2. rich
            rich 15 September 2020 18: 39 New
            +3
            Thank you!
            You need to write books on naval topics
            1. Catfish
              Catfish 15 September 2020 19: 35 New
              +1
              But where are the books ... I just rewrote it all, because it became interesting myself. By the way, I didn't really know anything about Evgeny Behrens, he somehow "got lost" against the background of his younger brother with his famous battle on Novik. So it was useful for me to read it myself.
              And, by the way, the moment - one of the most respected admirals in our fleet, Admiral Kasatonov, the son of the admiral of the fleet of the Soviet Union, delivered a slab on a cruiser and laid it on the grave of Mikhail Berens. Symbolically, don't you think?
              1. rich
                rich 15 September 2020 19: 57 New
                +3
                of course symbolic! There was even a song about that famous battle between Novik and German destroyers in the Russian Navy.
                "Attack! Attack! Attack! ”, -
                Destroyer detonates the signal.
                From utah walks to the tank
                Half a rundown on the ship.
                Signalers, flags - on the topmills!
                The fewer of us - the more honor.
                And then there is no account for money,
                Here seconds are counting.
                The move is “full”. Come on board!
                "Plutoons, guns - tovs!"
                "High explosive! ..", -distance, report,
                And the leaping time ran.
                The scopes of the sights are buried
                Into the wake of other people's pennants,
                And human destinies closed
                The click of the gun locks ...

                a photo German destroyer V-99
                1. rich
                  rich 15 September 2020 20: 05 New
                  +2

                  The destroyer "Novik" was at that time the best in the world in its class. Displacement 1320 tons, length 102 meters, full speed - 37,2 knots (68,5 km / h). The armament consisted of 4 x 102 mm guns, 4 twin torpedo tubes. Ship MG take up to 50 min. But its main "trick" was the presence of a fire control system, previously installed only on cruisers. Two rangefinders (on the bow and stern bridges) transmitted data on the distance, speed, direction of the target's movement to the conning tower. There, the data was processed, and ready-made solutions for guidance angles were already fed to the guns. This made the Novik a very formidable artillery enemy. On the Black Sea, two destroyers of this type were able to fight off the German cruiser Breslau.
                  1. Catfish
                    Catfish 15 September 2020 21: 04 New
                    +2
                    In my opinion, the destroyers of the second series, like this one, by the name of Fedonisi, have already grappled with the Breslau.

                    But there was also a third series, the ships of which were being completed already under Soviet rule.
                    1. rich
                      rich 15 September 2020 21: 12 New
                      +1
                      Kostya, isn't this the same red-banner "Nezamozhnik" whose model and steering wheel are on display in the Central Naval Museum?
                      1. Catfish
                        Catfish 15 September 2020 21: 33 New
                        +2
                        Oh, Dim, I don't know. We do not have such a museum in Moscow, and even more so in Ryazan. This is for Anton and Nikolai, in St. Petersburg there is a Maritime Museum, only I was there 100 years ago.)))
                        Although most likely the model of this particular ship was exhibited, there were no ships with this name either before or after it, thank God. By the way, he is like "Fidonisi" and there is definitely in the Sevastopol Museum.
    2. Sergey Oreshin
      Sergey Oreshin 15 September 2020 11: 33 New
      +8
      First, the resources of the Crimea were limited and they simply could not feed the military and civilian refugees who had accumulated on the peninsula. Wrangel's summer campaign in Northern Tavria was primarily a campaign for bread, fodder and meat.
      Secondly, strategically, to sit and wait until the Reds defeated the Poles, and then pounced on him with all their might - it was stupid, here Wrangel acted quite logically: while the best enemy forces were occupied on the Polish front, it was necessary to advance and expand the controlled territory.
      Another thing is that Wrangel's resources were limited, the population was tired of the war and was in no hurry to get up under his banner, and the Poles thought primarily about their own interests, and not at all about the whites.
      1. hermit
        hermit 15 September 2020 22: 14 New
        -1
        The area of ​​Crimea is approximately 27000 sq. Km. The population at that time was less than a million. What resources did they lack? Moreover, something else was exported. If the Red Army defeated Poland, it would mean the collapse of the Versailles Peace. The Entente would undoubtedly intervene. Although it is not a fact that the Bolsheviks would have defeated Poland, even if Wrangel had not taken any action. But albeit a ghostly one, there was still a chance to stay in Crimea. I'm glad it turned out exactly the way it turned out. Wrangel may have been a good cavalry division commander, but he was no strategist. As, however, and his predecessor Denikin.
        1. Sergey Oreshin
          Sergey Oreshin 15 September 2020 22: 32 New
          +1
          Well, most of the Crimea is a steppe. There is not so much fertile land there, which without irrigation can give a good harvest. Moreover, the general economic crisis in the country + Civil War + intervention struck Crimea, which found itself in the epicenter of confrontation.
          Therefore, a campaign began in the fertile regions of Northern Tavria and Yekaterinoslavshchina, where it was just possible to get food.
          Quote: hermit
          But albeit a ghostly one, there was still a chance to stay in Crimea.

          He didn't have that chance. Back in April, Lenin insistently called for an end to Crimea as soon as possible. So if Wrangel sat only in a deep defense, sooner or later it would be broken through. Perhaps even earlier than in real life.
          Here, by the way, we must also take into account the morale of the Whites after the Novorossiysk evacuation, which was low. Constant defeats, in fact a hasty flight, the thoughts of the overwhelming majority were "Well, that's it, they'll slam us soon." In real life, Wrangel's victories in June-July significantly increased the morale of the whites, after the defeat of the Redneck, they generally perked up and even believed that they could take Moscow ...
          And if Wrangel sat exactly - then the morale of his fighters would steadily fall, the army, not busy with any business, would decompose - and, I repeat, most likely, the Reds would have taken Crimea before the real, somewhere in the summer
          1. hermit
            hermit 15 September 2020 23: 29 New
            -1
            All this, of course, is idle speculation in the genre of alternative history. But in 1853 the Russian-Turkish war began. Russia successfully fought on the Danube and the Caucasus, Nakhimov defeated the Turkish fleet. And then the British and French landed in the Crimea. And we know how it ended. This analogy suggests itself.
  • Sergey Oreshin
    Sergey Oreshin 15 September 2020 11: 25 New
    +4
    Y-yes, here Samsonov simply blocked himself. Such a miserable and pathetic abstract, just slammed from Wikipedia and a couple of popular brochures. High School 7th Grade Level!
    The author did not work for a day neither in the archives nor in the libraries; as a result, such significant military actions are described as scanty and fragmentary as possible.
    BOLD MINUS "article"
  • Catfish
    Catfish 15 September 2020 12: 10 New
    +4
    On September 15, a naval battle took place near the Obitochnaya spit (near Berdyansk). The Red Azov military flotilla, led by Khvitsky (4 gunboats and 3 boats), left Melitopol with the task of attacking the white flotilla under the command of the captain of the 2nd rank Karpov (2 gunboats, two armed icebreakers, a destroyer, a minesweeper and a boat), which fired at Berdyansk. The forces of the parties were approximately equal. During

    Gunboat "Red Star".

    Coal destroyer "Zorkiy", the same type was also "Hot" (for the whites).

    Fast patrol boat-fighter firm "Greenport", Tavie boats were both the Reds and the Whites.

    It should be noted that all the tasks of the white detachment regarding the landing of Colonel Nazarov's group were fully completed and without a decisive battle.
    1. Undecim
      Undecim 15 September 2020 13: 13 New
      +7
      The Red Azov military flotilla led by Khvitsky (4 gunboats and 3 boats) left Melitopol
      Obviously, the author had in mind Mariupol, since the sea is at least 50 kilometers in a straight line.
      1. Sergey Oreshin
        Sergey Oreshin 15 September 2020 14: 58 New
        +6
        And for Samsonov, both Melitopol and Mariupol are from the region "somewhere out there." Our "author" not only didn’t work with archival documents, I feel that he didn’t even look at the geographical map when he sprinkled his little article
        1. Undecim
          Undecim 15 September 2020 15: 03 New
          +8
          For this author, such trifles as a map, documents and other sources are an insignificant trifle.
          The main thing for him is the scale, the confrontation of civilizations, the super-ethnos against the Masters of the West !!!
          Moreover, he writes in the genre of a sketch that is fashionable today, and in it any historical details and the reliability of the events presented do not matter at all.
          1. Sergey Oreshin
            Sergey Oreshin 15 September 2020 15: 45 New
            +4
            What are we talking about! "Woe-author" writes all sorts of provocative garbage - stoned "communists" and "whitewaters" from among the commentators begin 100500 times shit on the topic "who was better: red or white", the author catches the hype and enjoys winding up comments.
            Site degradation, of course, is evident
    2. BAI
      BAI 15 September 2020 14: 45 New
      +2
      Coal destroyer "Zorkiy", the same type was also "Hot" (for the whites).

      From this phrase we must conclude that at the time of the battle "Sharp" was part of the detachment of red ships?
      On December 29, 1917, it entered the Red Black Sea Fleet. In January 1918, he established Soviet power in Odessa. At the beginning of 1918, it was put for overhaul in the workshops of the Sevastopol military port, where on May 1, 1918, it was captured by German troops and in July 1918, under the letter "R 10", was included in the German Navy on the Black Sea.

      On November 24, 1918, he was captured by the Anglo-French invaders and in April 1919 he was taken to the port of Izmir on the Sea of ​​Marmara. From October 1920 he was a member of the White Guard naval forces of the South of Russia.

      On November 14, 1920, he was taken away by the Wrangelites during the evacuation from Sevastopol to Istanbul and then to Bizerte, where he was interned by the French authorities on December 29, 1920.

      On October 29, 1924, it was recognized by the French government as the property of the USSR, but due to the complexity of the international situation, it was not returned, in the late 20s. sold by "Rudmetalltorg" to a private firm for scrapping and in the early 30s. dismantled in France for metal.

      Service "Sharp" to the Soviet Republic ended on May 1, 1918.
      Incidentally,
      Red Azov military flotilla led by Khvitsky (4 gunboats and 3 boats)

      from this phrase it follows that the Reds did not have destroyers (destroyers) in this battle.
      1. Catfish
        Catfish 15 September 2020 15: 59 New
        +4
        You, dear, at least read from beginning to end the post to which you are giving a comment. There from the very beginning there is a quote from the author about the ship composition of the Azov flotilla. So your "by the way" is absolutely useless here.
        From this phrase we must conclude that at the time of the battle "Sharp" was part of the detachment of red ships?

        You need to have a fair amount of imagination in order to conclude from my words that "Sharp" was part of the red flotilla (see the author's composition of forces). I mentioned his name only for the reason that it was of the same type as the Zharkiy destroyer from the Wrangel squadron. Well, there was no photograph of "Hot", but there was a photograph of "Sharp", they are the same type, twin brothers, do you understand now?
        1. BAI
          BAI 16 September 2020 10: 04 New
          0
          Coal destroyer "Zorkiy", the same type was also "Hot" (for the whites).
          This phrase is far from unambiguous. Therefore, it raises questions.
          Well, there was no photograph of "Hot", but there was a photograph of "Sharp", they are the same type, twin brothers, do you understand now?

          Unclear.
          Look here, not great work:
          https://www.kchf.ru/ship/minonosets/zharkiy.htm

          Destroyer "Hot" of the Black Sea Fleet in the Sevastopol Bay
          Was it necessary to stick a photo in order to stick something?
          1. Catfish
            Catfish 16 September 2020 10: 41 New
            0
            What do you want to prove to me? Ships of the same type and silhouettes are indistinguishable, the only difference is in the letters painted on board. What's the problem, your boringness?
    3. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 15 September 2020 15: 26 New
      +3
      Immediately I remembered Kolbasyev - "Salazhonok" and "Good commander". smile
      There were warships, but they also looked peaceful, because they could not do otherwise. They were made from icebreakers, bulk steamers and land scows, those that take out dirt from dredges. They did not resemble the naval aristocracy - gray ships with a wolf profile and a light wolf move. They were ordinary workers, armed hastily and by accident, Red Guards who took up arms to defend their labor.
      But the commander did not possess excessive imagination and did not feel this pathos of his flotilla. He didn't like that she walked five knots.
      Gunboats! —One name. On them, even the hundred and thirty-millimeter guns looked like cargo arrows. The commander wanted to spit on the stern of his flagship, but he resisted.
      As a matter of fact, there was nothing to be angry with the ships for. They came to serve when there were no others, and they served well. Landing scows have an opening bottom and air boxes along the side; hence, there is water in the holds to the waterline. Boardwalks were laid on top of this water, and artillery cellars were arranged on them. The icebreaker was raised from the bottom, called the "Banner of Socialism", put the guns and immediately put into action. In two years of scuba diving, an entire tree has rotted on it. New premises were being completed on the move: carpenters were working below, and a navigational watch was standing above the loaded guns. Twice they took a fight, and unfinished bulkheads fell from the shooting. Then they started anew.
      1. Catfish
        Catfish 15 September 2020 16: 00 New
        +3
        Thanks for the comment, Alexey. hi Immediately I remembered "Arsene Lupine". smile
  • Sergey Oreshin
    Sergey Oreshin 15 September 2020 15: 47 New
    +3
    I am not even talking about the gross error in the very title of the "article".
    The last offensive of the Russian Army was the Zadneprovskaya operation, carried out in October 1920 The offensive of the whites in the Yekaterinoslav province and in the Donbass was in September.
  • Sergey Oreshin
    Sergey Oreshin 15 September 2020 15: 54 New
    +3
    Quote: Pan Kohanku
    Balakhovich is one of many examples of the so-called. "warlords" handed down by shocks to leadership positions

    I recall "How the Steel Was Tempered" by Nikolai Ostrovsky: "Before the revolution, Pan Colonel was an agronomist on the plantations of a sugar factory, but this life is boring, not equal to the ataman position, and an agronomist emerged in a murky element that had walked around the country, already Pan Colonel Golub."
    And Mikhail Bulgakov's "White Guard": "All his life until 1914, Kozyr was a village teacher. In 14 he went to war in the dragoon regiment and by 1917 he was promoted to officer. And the dawn on December 14, 18, at the window, found Kozyr as a colonel Petliura army, and no one in the world (and least of all Trump himself) could have said how it happened, and this happened because the war for him, Trump, was a vocation, and teaching was just a long and big mistake. most often it happens in our life.For as long as 20 people are engaged in some kind of business, for example, reading Roman law, and at 21 - suddenly it turns out that Roman law has nothing to do with it, that he does not even understand it and does not like it, but in fact, he is a delicate gardener and burns with love for flowers.This happens, presumably, from the imperfection of our social system, in which people all too often fall into their place only towards the end of their lives. Trump came to forty-five years. bad teacher, cruel and boring. "
    I apologize for the long quotes, but they are very colorful!
    1. Pane Kohanku
      Pane Kohanku 15 September 2020 16: 32 New
      +3
      I apologize for the long quotes, but they are very colorful!

      Neither subtract nor add - to the point. soldier Sergey, I also agree with the rest of the comments. With respect, Nicholai hi
  • Petr Vladimirovich
    Petr Vladimirovich 15 September 2020 17: 46 New
    +3
    A wonderful branch! Some for the whites, some for the red, some for Makhno! And even with pictures-photographs.
    Good luck to everyone!
  • Sergey Oreshin
    Sergey Oreshin 15 September 2020 23: 55 New
    +2
    Quote: hermit
    And then the British and French landed in the Crimea. And how it all ended is known. This analogy suggests itself.

    That is, you believe that in the event of the success of the Red Army in Poland, England and France would send their troops to Wrangel to help?
  • Sergey Oreshin
    Sergey Oreshin 16 September 2020 10: 46 New
    0
    Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
    Thousands of uprisings, speeches were suppressed because the government was supported by the majority of the population,

    Thousands of uprisings, riots, peasant wars and even one revolution against the tsars in the 17th and early 20th centuries. therefore, they were suppressed that the autocratic power was supported by the majority of the population of Russia. Isn't that right, comrade?