Military Review

Nord Stream-2: second bottom of second stream

126

Competition, nothing personal



Russia is not a competitor to the Americans. Of course, not strategically, but economically. For American legislators, and even more so for their voters, Russia is a raw material appendage, it is not entirely clear whose, even if armed to the teeth and extremely impudent. But this is not China or Europe.

And if Russia had not made such unprecedented efforts to maintain the energy independence of both the West and the East, the Russian factor in Washington could have been neglected altogether. Even taking into account Syria, Ukraine with Crimea and Donbass, or even without them.

However, it doesn't work out somehow. The Russians are hindering the great shale project and the no less great project "to fill Europe with American LNG" - liquefied gas. The halt in the construction of the Nord Stream 2 gas pipeline, at least temporary, but rather long, is something of a lifeline for the current republican administration.

You can immediately drop all accusations of "betting on the Russians" and calmly start processing the brains of the majority of the white population of the country, which has not yet completely gone crazy on the basis of the notorious tolerance in all its forms. But after all, having unleashed a tough struggle with Nord Stream 2 to the limit, the American administration is not only chasing points in the election race, but also trying to look into the future.

The messages that the ambitious project began to see a second bottom have not yet been widely disseminated. This happened not so long ago, when the world started talking seriously about the prospects of hydrogen energy. But even a superficial assessment of the prospect of pumping this most valuable resource along the bottom of the Baltic, the one and only, is capable of mixing all the cards in the current gas situation.

In the meantime, Washington does not hide its intentions to oppose the completion of Nord Stream 2 by all possible means. AND история with the poisoning of Russian blogger Alexei Navalny, it turned out to be very useful here.

What does Navalny have to do with it


The authors are not going to ask the question of how it happened that the famous blogger was so promptly, without delays and games in quarantine measures, sent to Germany. It is more important for them that Navalny, following Belarus, which stubbornly does not want to be left without the "dad" for now, was included in the list of factors that play not in favor of Nord Stream 2.

Europe has long handed over the gas pipeline, which they persistently continue to call Russian, given the presence of a number of partners of a level no lower than Gazprom, actually at the mercy of Germany. What can be changed here because of the incident with Navalny is not entirely clear, but it was not just that he was sent to a German clinic.

It is believed that the US sanctions could cost any of the project participants almost more than penalties for outstanding work. Well, under the roar of the cannonade, which is arranged around the world due to the pandemic, and this cannot be ruled out.


But retaliatory measures or specific business decisions with a turn to face not only Russia, but also China or, worse, Venezuela and North Korea, can be so powerful that the US economy will regard the 30 percent decline of the last quarter as good luck. The experience of cooperation between Europeans and Iran convinces us that nothing is impossible in the modern economic world.

The arrest by the American court of half a billion dollars in the accounts of Deutsche Bank - is this a trial balloon or an educational measure? Moreover, this was done for the implementation of the transaction of the Russian businessman from the sanctions lists, where he got after its implementation.

One thing is for sure: this is a dangerous precedent, from which the Europeans can draw conclusions completely unexpected for the United States. Now we are talking about an attempt to turn the European Union as a whole into an American satellite, that is, to get rid of at least one global competitor. Second, China is not going anywhere from the United States because of the risk of losing its main sales market.

Six arguments against


Journalists are often ahead of the rest. Politicians are still bargaining, experts are gathering the necessary information, and the press is already giving out options for possible developments. In the case of Nord Stream 2, the American media association Politico hastened to get ahead of everyone.

They counted six options for how Germany can cancel previously issued construction agreements. After that, in fact, give the go-ahead to stop the project, which came under US sanctions, and only then insist on sanctions at the EU level.

Although it is still not entirely clear against whom these sanctions will ultimately be directed, since in addition to the Russian Gazprom, at least five international corporations are involved in the project, and not without a share of Germany. Recall that the project involves not only the Austrian OMV, the French Engie and the Anglo-Dutch oil and gas giant Shell, but also the German companies Wintershall and Uniper.

The latter have not resigned themselves to the pressure on Nord Stream-2, they are ready to sue over delays and lost profits with anyone. In addition, none of the consortium members at any stage of the project's implementation concealed their readiness for closer cooperation with the Russian gas giant.

Let us also remind that Nord Stream 2 could begin gas supplies to the German Greifswald from the Russian Ust-Luga as early as 2020, which is now unlikely. Germany could receive up to 55 billion cubic meters of gas per year. Here are all six arguments of American journalists with short comments on each of them.


The first suggests possible pressure from the German federal authorities on the mining administration and the two Stralsund agencies - the maritime and hydrographic ones - to revoke previously issued building permits.

Even taking into account the enviable, by Russian standards, independence of the federal lands, one must understand that this is not easy. But something else is more important: it is very expensive. Only legal costs can amount to an amount equal to the cost of almost the entire project as a whole - almost 10 billion euros.

Are the top officials of Germany ready to actually buy out Nord Stream-2 just to close it? Unless, of course, Washington pays, although such a tranche cannot be hidden by any means and means.

The second American version is designed for long litigation with environmentalists. After all, those are trying to convince the world that Russian gas can affect the warming in the Old World. After Germany has taken a course of abandoning the atom, coal and oil, the public there can believe anything, but there is no real alternative to gas, and the "green" arguments against it work badly.

The third opportunity Politico calls a national restriction on the import of Russian gas in the "interests of security." The authors, and not only them, find it hard to believe that someone in Germany is really ready today to talk seriously about the reality of the "Russian threat".

The last three options from Politico are a little more complicated, since they talk about Germany, as it were, throwing off possible sanctions on the European Union, or giving the US the right to restrictive measures, since they oppose the implementation of the project. Finally, the start of Nord Stream-2 operation may be significantly delayed due to the operator's need to obtain a license.

All this is nothing more than bureaucracy in its most sophisticated European Union form, but the most piquant thing is games with a license to the operator, the German one, let us note from ourselves, Nord Stream-2 AG. Gogol's non-commissioned officer's widow is just resting.

And a little about a bright future


How long will it take to convince us that Germany can cancel Nord Stream-2? Until the first Tuesday after the first Monday in November. When will the US presidential election. But about the American elections below.

In the meantime, we note that it is not worth pushing the "Nord Stream-2" for Germany at least for the future. Indeed, in the future, most likely, not so distant, when hydrogen fuel will become not unique, but massive, this gas will be easy to add to natural gas and deliver it to Europe.

Nord Stream-2: second bottom of second stream

Why? This is because only the Russian nuclear power industry is capable of ensuring mass production of hydrogen in the foreseeable future at prices and on a scale comparable to pipeline natural gas and LNG. In all other cases, hydrogen suitable as fuel is very expensive and very little. And this is for a long time, most likely, for a very long time.

Academician N.N.Ponomarev-Stepnoy spoke about the prospects of atomic-hydrogen energy, and its concept was developed in closed Soviet institutions back in the 70s. Basically, it boils down to the formula "water inlet plus cheap atomic energy give out hydrogen, oxygen and clean energy, as well as water as waste."

The implementation of the atomic-hydrogen concept so far rests only on the absence of operating and suitable for mass production of hydrogen engines, although in Japan they have already moved things off the ground, and in the notorious Chernobyl syndrome.


Summing up, let us make the assumption that all the acuteness of the confrontation around Nord Stream 2 will subside as soon as the presidential elections in the United States are held. Moreover, the general pacification will not in the least depend on their results. The fact is that, in fact, the disruption of a global project, into which billions have already been invested, is hardly beneficial even to its potential competitors.

Billions have been invested in Nord Stream-2, not only and not so much by Russian Gazprom, but by transnational corporations that are much less dangerous for the United States and the West as a whole. And this, together with the fact that their shareholders are tens of thousands of the "powerful of this world", is just the main thing.

The main thing is that these corporations are either already involved, or can be involved in the implementation of almost any competitive project. Now the market for the supply of hydrocarbon raw materials is highly competitive, but in the future it is by no means overcrowded.

Especially taking into account the global green trend, which can greatly slow down both a peaceful atom and a number of other energy projects of a planetary scale. Hydrogen, on the other hand, which is ideal in terms of emissions and follows natural gas, is not only tempting, but really inspiring.
Author:
Photos used:
rim3.ru, reuters, rian.ru, dw.com
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  1. rocket757
    rocket757 15 September 2020 05: 24
    +2
    Politics + economics or the opposite is politics, no economics ???
    An interesting question!
    Different experts, different opinions, you can believe in any decision of politicians, on the nerves of all they will still lose.
    And journalists, well, always run ahead of the locomotive, they have such a nature.
    1. Finches
      Finches 15 September 2020 06: 50
      -7
      As grandfather Lenin taught us: "Politics is a concentrated expression of economics", therefore, GDP correctly calculated everything for the future, pushing our gas pipelines to all corners of the planet - Turkey, China, Germany needs to be pushed a little ... big tubs, and gas, whatever one may say, will remain the cheapest and most widespread fuel on the planet for a long time - whoever owns gas and knows how to supply it cheaply - he owns, if not the world, then a lot! Therefore, the Anglo-Saxons can unleash a war for such a tasty morsel of the world market, but to cool their warlike impulses, you need to periodically remind them - ordering for the Anglo-Saxons on MTV Ivanushki's song "Poplar Fluff" with subtitles, preferably against the background of deploying ICBMs! laughing
      1. rocket757
        rocket757 15 September 2020 07: 07
        0
        The pipeline, if it is workable, is temporarily mothballed, it is always an ACTIVE, especially if you have the opportunity to fill it with a product / raw material in demand.
        Politicians come and go, but you will ALWAYS want to eat, warm up and turn on the light bulb!
        1. Finches
          Finches 15 September 2020 07: 08
          0
          Absolutely true!
        2. APASUS
          APASUS 15 September 2020 20: 36
          +1
          Quote: rocket757
          Politicians come and go, but you will ALWAYS want to eat, warm up and turn on the light bulb!

          The point is not quite in the pipe.
          The point is in the light of the decisions made in the EU, refusal from "dirty fuel", to more environmentally friendly. Germany becomes a monopoly in the distribution of almost half of all gas in the EU. American puppets (Poland, the Baltic States) will have to kneel for gas from the Germans. Here the increase in control of the Germans over the EU, over the listed countries and the weakening of the influence of the Americans on them. The Americans are losing not only influence on the EU and the listed countries, but also in the whole region as a whole.
          And this is geopolitics!
          1. rocket757
            rocket757 15 September 2020 21: 05
            -1
            Oh, such geopolitics could have been obtained there ... stable gas prices, stable guaranteed volumes, the ability to neutralize all force majeure circumstances !!! This is also stable, cheaper electricity !!! Produced by more, less "clean" thermal power plants running on gas ...
            Cheap electricity is the engine of the entire industry! Reducing the price of products, which means the competitiveness of German goods in comparison with others ... is the dream of any manufacturer of goods.
            Electricity consumption will only grow and “green energy” will not be able to cover the need for that for a long time, and it is much more expensive. Liquefied gas will always be more expensive than pipe gas, and it is difficult to ensure the stability of supplies.
            In general, Germany can shoot itself in the foot !!! But this is THEIR choice .... or rather politicians who care about the interests of not their country.
          2. Old Michael
            Old Michael 15 September 2020 21: 26
            -2
            The Americans are losing not only influence on the EU and the listed countries, but also in the whole region as a whole.
            And this is geopolitics!

            This is for sure, dear APASUS!
            When Europe became too independent, and the dollar slipped to 0,5 euros, the United States quickly showed the Europeans who the boss was. And they fulfilled one of the commandments of Brzezinski, rolling out Yugoslavia and thoroughly laying their paws not only on the Balkans, but also on the adjacent territories. And the American military contingent, who arrived in the EU to protect European democracy, settled there.
        3. Saxahorse
          Saxahorse 15 September 2020 21: 08
          +8
          Quote: rocket757
          The pipeline, if it is workable, is temporarily mothballed, it is always an ACTIVE,

          A strange saying. The pipeline costs tens of billions of dollars, takes decades to pay for itself, and constantly needs maintenance. If it is empty, as now both Turkish ones, huge losses are incurred by the country. If you look at today's gas prices, the payback periods for northern pipelines have also moved far into infinity. But those who were building, have already received their money and quickly jumped off. And now the budget will cover the future endless losses. And you call it an ACTIVE?
          1. rocket757
            rocket757 15 September 2020 21: 26
            -1
            The question is, will / will not the pipeline be used for its intended purpose and as long as? If there is no prospect or when it is there, maybe then it is easier to bury or dismantle it.
            if there are prospects to use it for its intended purpose and soon, then this is an asset.
            We don't know, and no one can predict exactly what will happen and when ... we'll wait and see.
            1. Saxahorse
              Saxahorse 15 September 2020 21: 36
              +4
              Quote: rocket757
              if there are prospects to use it for its intended purpose and soon, then this is an asset.

              The question is not only about the use, but also how much gas is on the market .. This year Gazprom showed huge losses because the cost of pipe amortization must be deducted from the cost of gas, even if it was smeared over 20 years. If gas does not rise in price, then the cost of the pipe will have to be written off at someone's expense.
              1. rocket757
                rocket757 15 September 2020 21: 48
                -1
                It is difficult to count this year as an indicator of something. The crisis, however, is EVERYWHERE!
    2. Civil
      Civil 15 September 2020 07: 17
      +5
      Summing up, let us make the assumption that all the acuteness of the confrontation around Nord Stream 2 will subside as soon as the presidential elections in the United States are held.

      This is if the sanctions are lifted, and the sanctions have already been announced or the adopted bills are laid down. Sanctions against the USSR were canceled for Russia after 38 years. It all depends only on the position of Germany.
      The implementation of the atomic-hydrogen concept so far rests only on the absence of operating and suitable for mass production of hydrogen engines, although in Japan they have already moved things off the ground, and in the notorious Chernobyl syndrome.

      There are 10 years left before the transition to electric vehicles - for example, in Sweden. In Germany (the largest car market in Europe) for 15 years.
      1. rocket757
        rocket757 15 September 2020 07: 27
        +3
        Quote: Civil
        There are 10 years left before the transition to electric vehicles - for example, in Sweden. In Germany (the largest car market in Europe) for 15 years.

        Well, yes, but they will be charged .... with the holy spirit, I guess. Relying on solar power plants and windmills ... is very dumb. Let some more advanced or advanced ones try ... they are not the first and it seems they are not the last!
        1. Keyser soze
          Keyser soze 15 September 2020 15: 57
          +6
          Well, yes, but they will be charged .... with the holy spirit, I guess.


          A colleague took this data from the official forecast of British Petroleum, from yesterday. Forecast of the development of the petrol products market until 2050. The British fear that in 2019 the market will recover in two years and then begin to fall due to the EU's transition to an alternative movement.

          But of course you may not believe (according to the Mask) and joke with trampolines and the holy spirit. bully
          1. rocket757
            rocket757 15 September 2020 18: 03
            +2
            Quote: Keyser Soze
            But of course you may not believe (according to the Mask) and joke with trampolines and the holy spirit

            Do you know how to read? I DID NOT WRITE about electric transport, I just pointed out that all electrical devices will have to be charged FROM THE SOCKET, for now, at least. Power generation capacity will grow in line with the increased consumption.
            And since electricity is mainly generated by non-alternative energy, GAS consumption will grow, since it is a relatively "clean" method, according to the same environmental standards.
            The casket was just opening ... electric transport, this is not a distant prospect of all urban and suburban transport, at least in countries with a temperate climate.
            And then, they will invent an effective, powerful storage device or source of electricity, then it will be possible to ride an electric scooter to the pole.
            1. Keyser soze
              Keyser soze 15 September 2020 18: 33
              +4
              Power generation capacity will grow in line with the increased consumption.


              You are right, but the power will come from green sources. We already have 21% of all energy.
              And in Germany, you can put panels on the roof and you will be connected to the network and will already generate energy. Thanks to our Chinese friends, panels are getting cheaper at the speed of sound and their efficiency is growing, so independence from energy corporations is not far off.

              GAS consumption will grow as it is a relatively "clean" way, with the same environmental standards.


              Last year, the EU refused to finance gas projects as not particularly environmentally friendly. Change in politics.
              1. rocket757
                rocket757 15 September 2020 19: 02
                +3
                You STE want to tell the person who CAM designed and assembled a personal solar power plant, is preparing the next project to improve its characteristics ??? Yes, I'm also going to do a windmill, CAM, so Schaub does not violate the san pin for the living area.
                In general, until effective, durable, reliable devices for accumulating and storing energy are invented, all this green energy will be a burden for any state, STRONGLY FAVORABLE, everything, everything and always !!!
                Yes, read wherever the OBJECTIVE ANALYSIS on the development of energy for the future, and not the bullshit that green and the same politicians hang on the ears of the average man.
                PS About the degradation of solar panels and the cost of their maintenance, also take an interest, it is also very useful to know.
                1. Keyser soze
                  Keyser soze 15 September 2020 20: 15
                  +2
                  You STE want to tell the person who CAM designed and assembled a personal solar power plant,


                  Did not know! My respect for work and knowledge!
                  1. rocket757
                    rocket757 15 September 2020 20: 51
                    0
                    My opinion is that if you can make a CAM from improvised means (for many, many years I have been repairing electronics, a cart and a small cart have accumulated at handy materials), you can save a bunch of babosiks, you only had to buy panel elements, batteries and some consumables. The price of 1 kW of power is about 8 thousand rubles, at prices 5 years ago.
                    In general, a good help in rural areas, where breakdowns in the power grid are not uncommon.
                    There is a serious disadvantage, only a specialist can make a truly autonomous power supply, and their services are expensive!
                  2. SovAr238A
                    SovAr238A 17 September 2020 20: 10
                    +2
                    Quote: Keyser Soze
                    You STE want to tell the person who CAM designed and assembled a personal solar power plant,


                    Did not know! My respect for work and knowledge!


                    Victor, although my opponent has been in a lot of questions for many years, I should give him his due - he says one correct thing ...
                    Nobody in the calculations of the western solar system does not take into account the cost of the energy storage system.
                    The essence of batteries.
                    And their life cycle.

                    Respectively.
                    I counted in 2008
                    The life span of diesel fuel was then about 10 years in Germany.
                    Only after that they begin to reach the break-even point of 0, but they have degraded by 10% over these 35 years - and could never break-even.

                    The batteries have a life span of 1 to 4 years depending on the technology. And you just need a lot of them ... In order to live without noticing where your energy comes from, you need to pay and pay and pay ...
                    Or study programming on your own, study all sorts of modules for Arduino, be able to solder and other heresy :))) and spend your own thousands of man-hours on it ...

                    As a result - according to the calculation for 2010 - not a single personal solar battery in Germany actually paid off in principle ...

                    All its payback is the essence of subsidies from the Greens ... What's next, when the money that the German economy generates, and which is so wastefully spent by the Greens, runs out?

                    Well, let the cost of solariums decreased by 3 times ...

                    But ..
                    The cost of batteries has increased by 30% ...
                    Lead and calcium have become much more expensive ...
              2. bar
                bar 20 September 2020 09: 49
                +1
                Last year, the EU refused to finance gas projects as not particularly environmentally friendly. Change in politics.

                Recently EU decisions do not give the impression that they are being made by sane politicians.
                1. Keyser soze
                  Keyser soze 20 September 2020 10: 54
                  +1
                  Recently EU decisions do not give the impression that they are being made by sane politicians.


                  Well, as anyone ... In the field of ecology, I approve of them - cities for people, not cars, Natura 2000, the program prohibits national governments from developing commercial activities and development in protected natural areas, the closure of coal-fired plants, green energy, strict standards for the industry, we received 1,5 billion for new modern landfills and separation of waste from cities, so much more for the usual stations, etc. Otherwise, we say that Shies is impossible, it cannot happen, because it is illegal. It's good.
                  1. bar
                    bar 20 September 2020 11: 52
                    +1
                    Well, as anyone ... In the field of ecology, I approve of them - cities for people and not for cars, Natura 2000

                    It's a good dream. But unfortunately utopian. Serious politicians should be guided not only by good dreams, but also by the laws of physics and the achieved levels of technology. And they are such that in the next 50 years no wind turbines and solar panels will replace thermal and nuclear power plants, even with the existing number of environmentally friendly electric vehicles. And if you plan to replace all cars with internal combustion engines with them, you will even have to expand the network of these stations.
                    1. bar
                      bar 20 September 2020 12: 00
                      0
                      I'll add a bit. I am not saying at all that Europolicies are inadequate. I think it's much worse. They are quite adequate, but very cynical people. Hanging glamorous, stupid ideas on the ears of illiterate citizens and adopting inadequate laws, they thus solve their specific, completely material tasks.
                      1. Keyser soze
                        Keyser soze 20 September 2020 14: 05
                        +1
                        I am not saying at all that Europolitics are inadequate. I think it's much worse. They are quite adequate, but very cynical people.


                        I agree with you. Probably the last idealist in politics was Yekhenaten :)
      2. CSKA
        CSKA 15 September 2020 10: 28
        +3
        Quote: Civil
        There are 10 years left before the transition to electric vehicles - for example, in Sweden. In Germany (the largest car market in Europe) for 15 years.

        )))) Where did you find such data? In the first half of 2019, about 48 electric vehicles were registered in Germany, or 000% of the total. And what do you think power plants are working on?
      3. stalkerwalker
        stalkerwalker 17 September 2020 20: 21
        -1
        Quote: Civil

        There are 10 years left before the transition to electric vehicles - for example, in Sweden. In Germany (Europe's largest car market) 15 years

        Dreams, dreams ... Where is your sweetness ...
        Both Germans and Scandinavians (ordinary citizens) are very skeptical about these terms.
        And the rosy reports about the prospects of solar panels and wind turbines are the dumb "green" propaganda subsidized by the EU. This is the policy involved in the alleged rejection of gas and oil.
    3. Aleksandr21
      Aleksandr21 15 September 2020 08: 20
      +4
      Quote: rocket757
      Politics + economics or the opposite is politics, no economics ???
      An interesting question!


      In this case, the SP-2 is a political project. The main task of which is to give Germany energy independence from the United States, and to show that Germany can conduct an independent foreign policy without looking back at the Americans. And it is in this aspect that the struggle is now going on, in the Bundestag it is very clearly visible which political forces are trying to escape from the economic / political influence of the United States and which forces have completely fallen under the Americans and are trying to prevent the return of German sovereignty. But with regard to the economic need for this pipe, everything is quite complicated here ... gas is now cheap on the market, there are many suppliers (including LNG), but regarding the project payback:

      "The Nord Stream gas pipeline will pay off in 14-15 years. This statement was made by the managing director of the operator of the project - the company Nord Stream AG - Matthias Warnig in an interview with the Russia Today TV channel, RIA Novosti reports." We have long-term financing with a horizon of about 14-15 years. and after that we already plan to be in profit, "Warnig explained."


      The announcement was made in a rather well-fed 2011, when gas prices were quite high (compared to 2020). And it was about the first line ... So the project is purely political.
      1. rocket757
        rocket757 15 September 2020 08: 45
        +1
        Quote: Aleksandr21
        So the project is purely political.

        political aspects can be found in any more or less significant project! This is the world now, politics is in close connection with the economy, BUT, this project also carries economic "buns" ... there is no need to dig a lump there.
        So sho politics very much rules the economy! At the same time, economic problems, prospects, seriously affect politics!
        they can no longer be completely separated.
        1. cniza
          cniza 15 September 2020 09: 02
          +5
          There is no politics without economics, just like economics without politics ... Greetings! hi
          1. rocket757
            rocket757 15 September 2020 09: 30
            0
            Hi soldier
            I am greatly amused by the statements of all sorts of perplexity from the umks that OUR political interests should not be anywhere !!!
            Nonsense. After all, it did not start yesterday, it was ALWAYS this way, EVERYONE does it !!!
            1. cniza
              cniza 15 September 2020 09: 41
              +3
              Everything rests on that, and about S.P. 2 looks like everything interesting is yet to come ...
              1. rocket757
                rocket757 15 September 2020 10: 08
                +1
                We are waiting for the cod to spawn !!!
                1. tralflot1832
                  tralflot1832 15 September 2020 11: 00
                  +3
                  The cod seems to have spawned. We are waiting for the next accident on the Urengoy Pomary Uzhgorod gas pipeline. Today is the first. It exploded in vain. Murphy's law will help us. A couple more and the Germans will finish the pipeline themselves. Something VO is silent on this topic. hi
                  1. rocket757
                    rocket757 15 September 2020 11: 05
                    0
                    Quote: tralflot1832
                    Urengoy Pomary Uzhgorod. Today is the first.

                    While it was about the leak. When did it take off?
                    1. tralflot1832
                      tralflot1832 15 September 2020 11: 21
                      +3
                      There was no blaze, but the noise in the area stood like a falling plane. The eyewitnesses. The pipe is seamless, it means that something happened at the junction. As far as I know, they have 6 threads. Until the pumping capacity was reduced enough, due to the small volumes. The fatigue of the metal is not who has not canceled. I'm waiting for information from specialists. hi
                    2. tralflot1832
                      tralflot1832 15 September 2020 11: 36
                      +2
                      Slazil. Working pressure up to 75 atmospheres, distance between pumping stations 100 km. This is not a leak! hi
                      1. rocket757
                        rocket757 15 September 2020 11: 44
                        0
                        Quote: tralflot1832
                        This is not a leak!

                        I looked ... it says that the leak has been fixed, measures are being taken ...
                      2. SAG
                        SAG 15 September 2020 13: 24
                        -2
                        It exploded noticeably.

                        ... it says that the leak has been fixed,

                        ... the campaign exploded, but not for them laughing
                      3. rocket757
                        rocket757 15 September 2020 13: 41
                        0
                        Gas, a dangerous thing ... once heard, saw how the main gas pipeline bangs and burns !!! impressions for a lifetime.
                        Although, if you look, at least in the country, disaster, tragedy, with a bad attitude with gas equipment, you can get it SIMPLY!
                    3. tralflot1832
                      tralflot1832 15 September 2020 13: 41
                      +2
                      Criminal cases are not opened on leaks. Formulation: A criminal case has been opened regarding the depressurization of the pipeline of the Investigative Committee of Ukraine. The scene of the incident was taken under police protection. Something is not clean there. hi
                    4. rocket757
                      rocket757 15 September 2020 13: 43
                      0
                      But it could be. The interval of versions from sloppiness to sabotage!
                    5. tralflot1832
                      tralflot1832 15 September 2020 13: 51
                      +3
                      The pipe diameter is 1.5 meters. Depressurization occurred in an open field, therefore it was possible to avoid destruction and casualties. Only the redistribution of gas flows was made. Repair 2 3 days. good
    4. Ingvar 72
      Ingvar 72 15 September 2020 09: 49
      +1
      Victor, there should be interests, they should be profitable not by selling resources for a penny. For prices are formed in the US on exchanges, and the dollar, the only currency for which oil and gas is traded, is only printed in the US.
      1. rocket757
        rocket757 15 September 2020 10: 06
        +1
        Igor soldier
        Who told you that trading in resources is not profitable?
        In the negative, no one will trade at all ... they can carry out some, temporary, trading operations that may even bring losses, but this is always done for the sake of future profits. EVERYONE does this, but not for long, usually. If there are NO prospects of profit, other preferences, any business can be buried no matter what! This is this complex world.
        I, too, am not happy about just selling primary resources, without getting added value ... but this is a difficult process. Sooner or later, you will still have to switch to deep processing of natural resources and the supply of various processed products for export.
        most likely, this will not happen during our lifetime !!! Such is ce la vie.
        Only one thing remains decisive, the working people, at least this way, at least that way, under ANY government, in a system of this type (capitalism), it WILL NOT be very easy and good !!! everything crawls around one definition, worse or worse!
        So sho all these electoral games, the opposition, various rubber ducks Fuhrer, WILL NOT CHANGE ANYTHING. The system, capitalism, is based on one postulate, the enrichment of the ruling class, at the expense of everyone else!
        1. Ingvar 72
          Ingvar 72 15 September 2020 10: 34
          +1
          Quote: rocket757
          Who told you that trading in resources is not profitable?

          Of course it does, Victor, I do not dispute this postulate. But as I mentioned above, cheny is formed by our potential adversary, and the currency of calculation is also formed by a potential adversary.
          Well, about the distribution of profits, you are undoubtedly right, although at the moment it is secondary, because we have not classical capitalism, but an ecologic-colonial form. hi
          1. rocket757
            rocket757 15 September 2020 10: 50
            +2
            Quote: Ingvar 72
            the currency of the calculation is also a potential enemy.

            this is a major problem and has been for a long time! One country, even the most, the most, will not risk it all overturned, serious preparation is needed, allies and so on, so on ...
            Judging by the different processes, preparations are underway, an attempt to turn everything around will be ... the question is when and by what group of countries ???
            For too long, many have lived comfortably and now they will not want to give up all this!
            eco-feudal-colonial form. hi

            not important. There are exploiters, there are exploited. there are irreconcilable contradictions.
  • CSKA
    CSKA 15 September 2020 10: 30
    +1
    Quote: Aleksandr21
    a lot, but regarding the payback of the project:

    In Europe and in all civilized countries, this is normal. When they build a supermarket there, they expect it to pay off in 15 years.
  • Vol4ara
    Vol4ara 15 September 2020 10: 38
    +1
    One question, now there are no restrictions for construction, why not build? Is your gut thin without third-party foreign firms?
    1. rocket757
      rocket757 15 September 2020 10: 55
      +1
      Quote: Vol4ara
      now there are no restrictions for construction,

      Read, ban, build now IS! .... fish breed there.
      1. Vol4ara
        Vol4ara 15 September 2020 12: 34
        +1
        Quote: rocket757
        Quote: Vol4ara
        now there are no restrictions for construction,

        Read, ban, build now IS! .... fish breed there.

        So cod didn’t spawn or what? how much is already possible
        1. rocket757
          rocket757 15 September 2020 12: 51
          +1
          At least a week ago there was such infa from the EU. Like a year is so unique / motley .... not every year is like that, and no one really followed! and this year they decided to count each egg, like this with. Greens / ecologists, you can't go round on a crooked goat.
      2. Igor Semenov
        Igor Semenov 19 September 2020 18: 03
        +1
        Maybe it will be enough to introduce fornication? The Nord Stream 2 operator noted that construction work was limited to the Bornholm Basin area due to cod spawning in July and August. Both lines of the pipeline have already been laid there, so there are no further obstacles
        The spawning of cod in the Baltic Sea will not affect the completion of the Nord Stream 2 pipelines. This was reported to RBC by the press service of the pipeline operator Nord Stream 2 AG (owned by Gazprom). You can easily google all this on the Internet, but you continue to howl about spawning
  • Gato
    Gato 15 September 2020 18: 17
    -1
    And journalists, well, always run in front of the locomotive, they have such a nature

    Yeah, and some politicians are running towards the train. With a flag and a drum.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Pessimist22
    Pessimist22 15 September 2020 06: 00
    +2
    Yes, it will be completed, it will be a cold winter in Europe and the demand and the price of gas will increase, so it will be completed in a month.
    1. NDR-791
      NDR-791 15 September 2020 06: 08
      +1
      Germany played a game with bulk simply for siphoning time. Situevina rules everyone in Belarus. If they manage to "squeeze" Belarus, then in the near future SP2 will not be particularly needed. But dad is holding on, and now Navalny has already started to get up in the hospital.
  • The leader of the Redskins
    The leader of the Redskins 15 September 2020 06: 02
    +8
    The authors did not convince me of the unprecedentedness of SP2 and such its exceptional significance. If everything was as they described it, then the project would have been buried even at the stage of paper calculations and contracts.
  • GTYCBJYTH2021
    GTYCBJYTH2021 15 September 2020 06: 04
    12
    In Egypt, the pyramids from the ancestors remained, in China there is a wall, and the Russian descendants will only get the pipes at the bottom of the seas ..... And they will think and guess, yes, did the ancestors really want to pump out the sea ....... request
    1. Pessimist22
      Pessimist22 15 September 2020 06: 16
      +6
      We inherited territories from our ancestors, with rich mineral resources, we need to preserve and justly benefit from this, not like at the moment, a handful of people who have brazenly seized the wealth of the people.
    2. SAG
      SAG 15 September 2020 13: 30
      -4
      Quote: GTYCBJYTH2021
      In Egypt, the pyramids from the ancestors remained, in China there is a wall, and the Russian descendants will only get the pipes at the bottom of the seas ..... And they will think and guess, yes, did the ancestors really want to pump out the sea ....... request

      More comments will remain from cheap trolls, and descendants will think: "Really all the ancestors were the same stupid and narrow-minded ..."
      1. GTYCBJYTH2021
        GTYCBJYTH2021 15 September 2020 14: 00
        0
        Quote: SAG
        Quote: GTYCBJYTH2021
        In Egypt, the pyramids from the ancestors remained, in China there is a wall, and the Russian descendants will only get the pipes at the bottom of the seas ..... And they will think and guess, yes, did the ancestors really want to pump out the sea ....... request

        More comments will remain from cheap trolls, and descendants will think: "Really all the ancestors were the same stupid and narrow-minded ..."

        So do not write such comments, but in fact they will be considered stupid and narrow-minded ....... cheap, in a word ... laughing
        1. SAG
          SAG 15 September 2020 21: 28
          -3
          So do not write such comments, but in fact they will be considered stupid and narrow-minded ....... cheap, in a word ..... laughing

          Tips from cheap rated trolls
          below the baseboard doesn't look smart either. So sit quietly, since you can't even work out your cents ... Maybe they'll take it for a smart one yes
          1. GTYCBJYTH2021
            GTYCBJYTH2021 16 September 2020 14: 06
            -2
            Quote: SAG
            So do not write such comments, but in fact they will be considered stupid and narrow-minded ....... cheap, in a word ..... laughing

            Tips from cheap rated trolls
            below the baseboard doesn't look smart either. So sit quietly, since you can't even work out your cents ... Maybe they'll take it for a smart one yes

            They took you for being clever, you think ... what a childish naivete !!! Icicle candy was given out and that's it ....... not even a hryvnia or two ...
  • Ross xnumx
    Ross xnumx 15 September 2020 06: 32
    10
    And if Russia had not made such unprecedented efforts

    Stop writing such long articles. Except for a few faces, they are of no interest to anyone.
    Why is Russia not making efforts to complete the project? We were told here that since August they should "blurt out", despite neither Zavalny, nor Denmark, nor the US sanctions, nor the opinion of Polish experts ... Where is the BUSINESS? What are the obstacles? DOCOLE?
    "Chersky" - in place? Are the pipes included? Are there specialists? Are there any salary arrears?
    Why are you here with a scientific kagal continuing to "snatch" us knowledge about the benefits of Russian natural gas and the dangers of American shale gas? What does hydrogen engines have to do with it? And here is the second bottom, when the issues of the first bottom were (as we were notified) resolved.
    "Closer to the body," as old Maupassant used to say ... wink
    1. Alexey Sommer
      Alexey Sommer 15 September 2020 07: 27
      +8
      Quote: ROSS 42
      Why are you here with a scientific kagal continuing to "snatch" us knowledge about the benefits of Russian natural gas and the dangers of American shale gas?

      You are absolutely right. The authors of the article are stupid and caused rather the opposite effect than the one expected.
      To put it bluntly, since the "pension reform" I have not experienced anything but negative to zero.
      Europe is discussing the introduction of a 4-day work week. Our dumb people are increasing the retirement age.
    2. Igor Semenov
      Igor Semenov 19 September 2020 18: 06
      +1
      Including no insurance. Russian insurers are not considered by Denmark in principle.
  • ximkim
    ximkim 15 September 2020 06: 36
    +9
    There are enough gas suppliers on the market. Therefore, Europe has something to choose from. But the fact that the United States puts a stick in the wheels of the Russian Federation, so we are enemies for them, and they do not hide it and behave accordingly SP-2 - this is a common (not high-tech ) a pipeline for the delivery of gas to the buyer from the supplier, and this gas is sold so that the personnel (As of December 31, 2018, the payroll of the Gazprom Group companies amounted to 466,1 thousand people). Gazprom had a job and a salary. This means that the company is only needed for this, to have work. The colossal income from the sale of gas will not be distributed as in the UAE or KSA. Well, the country is like that, there's nothing you can do .. request And the most interesting thing is, if the Russian Federation really wanted to develop the mass production of hydrogen at prices and on a scale that are comparable to pipeline natural gas and LNG, then the main horns of the federal channels would have staged a show, they say .. a multi-pass ..))
  • 1536
    1536 15 September 2020 06: 42
    -1
    Perhaps the question is not that the construction of the pipeline is "frozen" 100 km from the German coast, but who owns the gas fields that are going to be put into the pipeline. There is a struggle for resources, not means of delivery. The Germans are afraid of the Americans. And how not to be afraid if the American army is still occupying Germany. On the one hand, this is a positive moment, since it does not allow fascism to revive in Germany, and on the other, of course, it is negative, because the Americans believe that the Germans are nothing and are ready for anything for a soup and a glass of cola. But this is one side of the coin. The key, as it should be, lies in Russia, in gas fields. And here, this is my opinion, the Americans and the Germans have problems. They don't want to be content with getting gas. They want to establish full control over its production and transportation. And here are the problems. Well, the Russian capitalist does not want to negotiate with the American and German (although the German capitalist is the same American), does not want to share with them. What for? As a citizen of Russia, I believe that our capitalists should negotiate with others only on conditions favorable to the country and its people. The Americans, on the other hand, in their simplicity of heart, believe that they have occupied not only Germany, but also Russia. And until they understand that this is not so, there will be no completion of the SP-2.
    1. Essex62
      Essex62 15 September 2020 09: 50
      +2
      And I, as a citizen of Russia, want our capitalists not to exist at all, but they were sent through the forest. We have a field not plowed for the development of our production from galoshes to nuclear-powered ships. Is it obligatory to sell gas? In general, is it necessary to sell something? How to switch to domestic consumption? Traders will bring the country to a complete collapse and run to their children, yachts, castles over the hill
      1. 1536
        1536 15 September 2020 10: 42
        +1
        Dear, I would completely agree with you if I did not see with my own eyes how in the late 1980s - early 1990s people massively took to the streets of the cities of our vast Motherland chanting "Down with the Communists", and, in my opinion, at the same time Soviet power, we want "democracy" and "socialism with a human face." As it turned out, both the communists and the Soviet regime were the only remedies for capitalism. And "socialism with a human face" is flourishing today from the banks of the Potomac River to the Vistula, but for some reason it tries to live at someone else's expense.
        Therefore, we must proceed from the possible and not wish our capitalists to be defeated in the war, but try to win this war, which the "partners" have once again imposed on us. Of course, a raven will not peck out a raven, but to doom Russia to a new yoke for 300-500 years, in my opinion, is simply stupid.
        1. Ross xnumx
          Ross xnumx 15 September 2020 11: 32
          0
          Quote: 1536
          and, in my opinion, at the same time the Soviet power

          Stop lying! If anyone shouted: “Down with!”, It was only about Gorbachev's entourage and himself, who, with his reforms, pluralism of opinions and anti-alcohol campaign, reduced the government of the country to governance by concepts. It was these communists, who know neither life nor production, who were brought up on the sidelines of the Kremlin and the offices of the Lubyanka, that the people did not want. It was these "communists" who allowed the drunkards and shady (standing in the shadows) committee members to usurp power.
          Quote: 1536
          Therefore, we must proceed from the possible and not want defeat in the war for our capitalists

          You have to read smart books and not watch TV. There are no “own” capitalists. The very nature of capitalism, the existence and survival of parasites that can only take away and divide, contradicts some kind of well-being of the working person. Capitalism exists at the expense of the withdrawal of a penny of labor and stuffing its own money. Has the "rhythmic gymnastics" of world oil prices, the dollar exchange rate and domestic fuel prices still opened your eyes to you?
          I will repeat to you. Even if gold flows instead of water in the Volga, under the existing system we will live in shit (the bulk of the population). The capitalist will neither moderate appetites nor change social policy in the sphere of income redistribution. Russian - first of all. And to fight with world capital, standing on the penultimate stages of the development of industry, agriculture, not being able to feed the people with domestic products and dress in domestic clothes, is FANTASTIC. First of all, for us. The capitalist is the enemy of his people, because:
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        2. Essex62
          Essex62 15 September 2020 16: 53
          -1
          Cities? Don't tell your grandfather fairy tales. Only in Moscow and these "crowds" all of a certain eliment consisted. If a team would have demolished this evil in a matter of minutes.
          1. your1970
            your1970 16 September 2020 06: 46
            +2
            Quote: Essex62
            Cities? Don't tell your grandfather fairy tales. Only in Moscow and these "crowds" were all of a certain eliment.

            Yes, yes ... Of the miners, for example, 54 protests against the government in 1989 ... They wanted more dough .... "A certain element" what is there ...
            Quote: ROSS 42
            If anyone shouted: “Down with!”, It was only about Gorbachev's entourage and himself, who, with his reforms, pluralism of opinions and anti-alcohol campaign, reduced the government of the country to governance by concepts.

            The trouble is that by this time the entire top of the CPSU was like this ... Such is the party it has become, completely decayed. The USSR was doomed because of this. The arrival of Stalin regularly every 15 years is, alas, impossible
            1. Essex62
              Essex62 16 September 2020 09: 16
              +1
              I agree with the latter. But there is no predetermined thing. At that time, the conditional banopart or Ulyanov did not happen, not to mention Stalin. Alas. The only one who survived after the Gorbachev purge, a Bolshevik with a cornflower, and with general general's epaulettes and ... a curtain.
              Miners are a separate phenomenon. And in Russia as a whole, not taking into account the separatists in the outskirts, the population did not even consider the change of the social and social system, why, and behaved calmly. All coups take place in capitals, exceptions are rare.
      2. Igor Semenov
        Igor Semenov 19 September 2020 18: 10
        +1
        You still need to sell something, because you need to buy something. It is impossible to build a complete autarchy.
  • Whisper
    Whisper 15 September 2020 07: 22
    0
    Chancellor Angela Merkel's diametrically opposite reversal from earlier agreements with the President occurred after her telephone conversation with Mike Pompeo on September 3.

    The secretary of state reminded the chancellor of her desire to leave in 2021 and leave her managed successor, and most importantly, of the secure old age of Merkel herself.

    A huge dossier on the long-term leader of the Federal Republic of Germany and all its clientele from the Bundeswehr and the BND to the construction of large-scale infrastructure projects allowed the CIA (whose consolidated frontman is Pompeo) to collect a colossal amount of invoice for Merkel.

    And although Angela was not a direct beneficiary of the schematosis, she personally covered their beneficiaries, one of which is the current head of the European Commission, Ursula von der Leyen.

    It was this conversation that made the iron lady for the first time break her word given to the President and put relations with the Kremlin on a low level.

    The extreme factor that tipped the scales for Merkel was the participation of France and Sweden in the game against Moscow, as well as the inclusion of the OPCW in the theater of the still cold military operations.

    On September 21, Gina Haspel will present her report on the Navalny Gate to the US Congress and the Trump administration, after which a statement from senior White House officials (expected by Pence) is expected.
    Probably, the Trump team will want to intercept the Navalny theme and prevent the Democratic Party from using the “Russian card”.
  • Ros 56
    Ros 56 15 September 2020 07: 24
    -2
    Does anyone seriously think that this is a reaction to the oval-anal leshechka. Fuck, he gave up to them, this Petrushka in a clown cap.
    If it had not been in nature, the striped ones would have come up with something anyway, since it is in their cowboy style. Here, the twist of this old nag of Merkel is more interesting, you can see the striped ones presented to her, well, very indigestible and most likely from her Komsomol past. She does not want to rattle the bones of the skeleton in the closet in her old age.
    As for the SP-2, they will build it, they will not go anywhere, only nerves will disturb the participants.
    But it is time for our leadership to take seriously our fifth column and outright traitors, despite their kinship, surnames and positions. I do not urge them to jail, but simply to deprive them of the opportunity to influence both decision-making in politics and economics and, which is no less important, on the moral and psychological atmosphere in the country. This is an example of the mood of some part of the people in Belarus.
  • Undecim
    Undecim 15 September 2020 07: 43
    +9
    Billions have been invested in Nord Stream-2, not only and not so much by Russian Gazprom, but by transnational corporations that are much less dangerous for the United States and the West as a whole. And this, together with the fact that their shareholders are tens of thousands of the "powerful of this world", is just the main thing.
    Okay, the author, his business is a noisy entourage, but the doctor and candidate of economic sciences could have studied the issue of financing the project and not spread the story of the investments of transnational corporations.
    The multinational corporations have not invested a cent in the pipeline. Uniper, Wintershall Dea, OMV, Engie and Royal Dutch Shell invested money in Gazprom, providing Gazprom with a loan in the amount of 50 percent of the project cost, which (loan) Gazprom will have to return to the borrowers, regardless of whether the gas pipeline is completed or not. And given that 70 percent of its share in construction was covered by Gazprom through loans from 26 European banks, if the project is terminated, all financial losses will fall on Gazprom and the loans will be recovered in any case in court.
    1. Cherry Nine
      Cherry Nine 15 September 2020 08: 01
      +7
      Quote: Undecim
      Okay, the author, his business is a noisy entourage, but a doctor and candidate of economic sciences could

      )))
      Associate professors with candidates have now gone peculiar.

      First, they fell into heresies of conspiracy and geopolitics.
      Secondly, they lie about finances.
      Thirdly, they lie about the situation on the hydrocarbon markets.
      Fourth, they lie about hydrogen. Hydrogen is canned electricity, it is ideally combined with renewable energy sources.
      1. Undecim
        Undecim 15 September 2020 08: 04
        +8
        I wrote a little about hydrogen below. While I was reading, the question arose all the time - why are there three people to write such "analytics"?
        1. Tsoy
          Tsoy 15 September 2020 12: 22
          +1
          Indeed, not all candidates are equally useful. In the article, half is contrived and the other is confusion.

          But retaliatory measures or specific business decisions with a turn to face not only Russia, but also China or, worse, Venezuela and North Korea, can be so powerful that the US economy will regard the 30 percent decline of the last quarter as good luck. The experience of cooperation between Europeans and Iran convinces us that nothing is impossible in the modern economic world.


          US gdp decline linked to coronavirus, what does sp2 have to do with it? The candidates did not notice that all economies, including the Russian Federation, suffered. Everyone remembers oil at negative prices? What's the point of Europe turning to Venezuela, or forgive the Lord of North Korea? Both countries with impoverished populations and no bad loans will buy nothing.

          It would be better for the candidates to explain why another pipeline is needed if the existing ones are barely half full? The Turkish stream was launched with the same fanfare, and how is the situation there now? The power of Siberia is also there. Where is the analyst why these pipes are used to a minimum?
    2. Liam
      Liam 15 September 2020 08: 28
      0
      The situation with financing the onshore section of SP-2 in the form of EUGAL is even more interesting.

      If, on the contrary, Nord Stream 2 stalls and EUGAL goes into operation, then Gazprom will have to pay the full price for the empty pipe. "The client is obliged to pay for the contracted gas transmission capacities. Whether they are used or not is a secondary issue for us," said project manager Ludger Hümbs in an interview with DW. This is what makes EUGAL especially attractive to foreign investors: Gazprom's long-term booking strategy provides them with a win-win.
      1. Undecim
        Undecim 15 September 2020 08: 34
        +6
        then Gazprom will have to pay the full price for the empty pipe.
        Yes, he will not pay for long - only 17 years old booked. Real pennies.
        1. Liam
          Liam 15 September 2020 08: 49
          0
          Funding for the construction of a pipe in Bulgaria is carried out according to the same scheme, and there, too, with permits from the EU, is more than muddy.
          1. Undecim
            Undecim 15 September 2020 09: 03
            +5
            The most interesting thing is that the onshore, German part of the pipeline, which is Eugal, is not mentioned at all in the turbopatriotic media. But the Germans are building it to the fullest together with the compressor station and no sanctions will affect this construction. That is, the Germans are confident that they will receive their money in any case.
            1. Liam
              Liam 15 September 2020 09: 29
              +1
              With Eugal, everything is more complicated. Gascade Gastransport GmbH is building it, in which Gazprom is a minority shareholder. This is the internal EU infrastructure and is not subject to sanctions at all. At most, Gazprom will be thrown out of shareholders. If JV-2 dies finally, they will make a branch to Eugal of the Norwegian Polish pipeline or the LNG plant will build and fill the pipe. The Germans will still have their hub. Only Schroeder will suffer
    3. Lexus
      Lexus 15 September 2020 13: 40
      +5
      hi Absolutely true! good There is not a "second bottom", but another specific "bottom".
  • prodi
    prodi 15 September 2020 07: 57
    -1
    by and large, the delay in construction is also beneficial for Germany, from the point of view of pressure on us in terms of reducing the gas price, however, I don’t understand why we, just as officially, and not raise the price, especially for official sanctions, simultaneously "pulling" the faucet on the Ukrainian thread? If losses are inevitable, why not make this game more fun?
    1. bar
      bar 15 September 2020 09: 44
      +3
      Quote: prodi
      by and large, the delay in construction is beneficial for Germany

      By and large, given the current energy prices, the completion of the SP-2 construction is no longer necessary for Gazprom itself. Apparently, this is why the construction stopped, although there are still no reasons for this. The cod spawned, and while the gist and business with the new prohibitions, that piece could well be finished. But for some reason Gazprom is crumpled up, either in anticipation of winter storms in the Baltic, or new sanctions. Apparently he is waiting on whom to blame for the freezing of the project and where to write off the losses.
  • Undecim
    Undecim 15 September 2020 07: 58
    +7
    Why? This is because only the Russian nuclear power industry is capable of ensuring mass production of hydrogen in the foreseeable future at prices and on a scale comparable to pipeline natural gas and LNG. In all other cases, hydrogen suitable as fuel is very expensive and very little. And this is for a long time, most likely, for a very long time.
    Here the doctors with the candidates demonstrated their complete ignorance and misinformed the reader.
    The production of hydrogen in the world is measured in tens of millions of tons.

    And 95 percent of that hydrogen is produced by steam reforming of methane or coal gasification, which is much cheaper than electrolysis of water.
    Therefore, there are no problems with hydrogen either in the short or long term.
    Can the site invite an ordinary engineer instead of a doctor of economic sciences with a candidate of economic sciences?
    1. Pushkowed
      Pushkowed 15 September 2020 09: 23
      +2
      Can you elaborate on coal gasification? How to get hydrogen from carbon without nuclear reactions?

      In general, hydrogen energy efficiency (EROEI) is less than 1. It is everywhere bound in chemical compounds (water, hydrocarbons) from where it must first be extracted. To break chemical bonds and release pure hydrogen, you need to spend more energy than you will get from using it as fuel. Both processes (extraction and use) have an efficiency of less than 100%, i.e. some of the energy is lost both during extraction and use. And if so, then why "conserve" energy in hydrogen? Why are conventional batteries worse? So hydrogen energy makes sense only in a very narrow field of application, where it is necessary to minimize the mass and volume of fuel and there is no possibility to refuel at any time (VNEU, rocket technology).
      1. Undecim
        Undecim 15 September 2020 09: 33
        +3
        Passage of water vapor over a hot coal at a temperature of about 1000 ° C:
        We get carbon monoxide and hydrogen.
        1. Pushkowed
          Pushkowed 15 September 2020 09: 38
          +1
          Then it turns out that hydrogen is obtained from water. Only instead of electrolysis, the source of energy is coal oxidation. It may be cheaper, but ecology fans are unlikely to like this hydrogen.
          1. Undecim
            Undecim 15 September 2020 10: 46
            +1
            In this case, hydrogen is a by-product. The main product in this process is carbon monoxide used as a fuel.
            If you are interested, briefly - http://www.materials.kiev.ua/hydrogen_2011-2015/obzor1.pdf
            1. ANB
              ANB 16 September 2020 19: 25
              -1
              Carbon monoxide is kind of like carbon monoxide. Poisonous enough stuff.
              And when it burns, carbon dioxide is obtained, for the reduction of emissions of which the green ones advocate.
    2. Igor Semenov
      Igor Semenov 19 September 2020 18: 20
      +2
      It's too late for the site to rush around. Thanks to the level of "experts" and "editors", the once quite solid VO has reached the level of Zen. With relevant comments. Alas!
  • cniza
    cniza 15 September 2020 08: 48
    +1
    Now we are talking about an attempt to turn the European Union as a whole into an American satellite,


    Isn't it a satellite now, it was originally created as a satellite under the leadership of the United States, Europe is occupied ...
  • bar
    bar 15 September 2020 09: 18
    +1
    Hydrogen, on the other hand, which is ideal in terms of emissions and follows natural gas, is not only tempting, but really inspiring.

    The only thing left is to discover the deposits of this hydrogen and drill a well. what
  • bar
    bar 15 September 2020 09: 34
    +3
    Hydrogen, on the other hand, which is ideal in terms of emissions and follows natural gas, is not only tempting, but really inspiring.

    The only thing left is to discover the deposits of this hydrogen and drill a well. lol
    But seriously - well, economists would not undertake a discussion of energy problems, especially such radical ones. From the point of view of physics and the law of conservation of energy, which economists may not know due to the specifics of their education, hydrogen cannot be an independent source of energybecause on planet Earth it does not exist in a free state. In the best case, it can simply be an intermediary in the transfer of energy from its producer to the consumer. The use of hydrogen does not solve any environmental problems, since for the production of this intermediate transmission link, energy sources are still needed, be it thermal, at least atomic, or hydro. But power lines, which are already transmitting energy in the form of electricity, do an excellent job with this. And at the same time with much less hemorrhoids than explosive hydrogen, which penetrates even through the crystal lattice of metals. And what would have to be done in earnest is the development of the power industry infrastructure and the construction of new power plants instead of closing them. With the transfer of motor transport from gasoline to electricity, the need for the latter will increase significantly, and no wind turbines and solar panels can cover it even in theory.
  • north 2
    north 2 15 September 2020 09: 52
    -1
    probably it would have been a different song if Germany and Europe themselves had discovered the fact that neither
    who, apart from Russia, do not have such cheap natural gas for them, and they themselves insisted on building these pipelines to Europe. At the same time, Russia could also "break" for solidity, but without ambition.
    And now Russia, also without any ambition, almost pleaded with tears so that the Germans and Europe
    realized that Russian gas is the cheapest, you just need to build a gas pipeline. And if there is something
    you beg your opponent, instead of the opponent getting it, you will lose where you should have won. Moreover, you will not be flattered by the fact that your opponent will lose in the end. After all, the opponent didn't get it, and you didn't understand that things should be done only with those who get it on their own ...
  • BAI
    BAI 15 September 2020 10: 10
    -2
    For that matter, hydrogen will be produced from water by electrolysis, not by processing natural gas. And then natural gas will become unnecessary. Absolutely.
  • Fan-fan
    Fan-fan 15 September 2020 11: 00
    0
    What is the use of this pipe for an ordinary Russian? Under socialism, the profit from the pipe would go to everyone, but now the profit goes only to the pockets of the oligarchs. Why then should we worry about this pipe?
    1. iouris
      iouris 15 September 2020 11: 24
      +1
      Quote: Fan-Fan
      What is the use of this pipe for an ordinary Russian?

      The “ordinary Russian” is Miller. And also Gref.
    2. Roman13579
      Roman13579 15 September 2020 13: 29
      -1
      Why then should we worry about this pipe?


      And someone is worried ??)
      Of ordinary Russians, except that this pipe does not give rest to Dazdraputam .. everyone is worried about the wallets of the Kremlin ..
      95% of the people are generally far from what is being built / not being built there .. As they poked in the gardens, they continue .. as they did not have anything from this, they will not have any further ..
      And the retirement age was already raised for everyone ... not even against the background of the completed Power of Siberia and the Turkish Stream ..
      1. your1970
        your1970 16 September 2020 07: 43
        +1
        Quote: Fan-Fan
        What is the use of this pipe for an ordinary Russian?

        Quote: Roman13579
        is someone worried ??)
        Of ordinary Russians, except that this pipe does not give rest to Dazdraputam .. everyone is worried about the wallets of the Kremlin ..

        In general, the budget of previous years was formed by 60% of the FCS, and the main volume of funds is export duties on hydrocarbons ...
        And this, in turn, means that the salaries of ALL (teachers, doctors, scientists, military men and others, others, others) who receive salaries from the budget - consist only of this oil and gas money
        And the military gets new weapons - also from oil money
        And even retirees poking around in their gardens, they also receive a pension from there ...
        The fact that this is bad is an indisputable fact, but it is impossible to change it quickly, alas.

        Moreover, attempts to fill the budget with other methods will be extremely negatively received by the population. For example, increasing tax collection from the current 20% of the budget to 90-95 (as is customary throughout the world)
        The transport tax was collected in 2018 only 34% and just don't say that the owners (who did not pay the tax !!!!!) of about 30 million cars are all oligarchs from offshore companies. Yea Yea..

        And yet, attempts to fill the budget with nationalizations, requisitions and other things will lead exactly to the same place as the last time - in 1918. To "war communism" ...

        And then we will again look for a new Rapallo with some kind of European outcast ...


        Z. Y. Citizens minus-you at least minimally justify the minuses please, at least somehow. And then there is no one to argue with ...
  • iouris
    iouris 15 September 2020 11: 23
    0
    Germany's future is Germany's business. The ambassador should be recalled "for consultations" on the future.
  • Nevolnik
    Nevolnik 15 September 2020 11: 33
    0
    The Russians are hindering the great shale project and the equally great project "to fill Europe with American LNG" - liquefied gas

    It's not just business, but most likely politics ..! With this project, Russia will snatch Germany out of the grasping hands of the United States and Israel .. After all, they have been milking her for so many decades!
    The union of Russia-Germany, political, economic, that is what the world tycoons of the United States and others are terribly afraid of. There will be many more provocations.
    The most interesting thing is yet to come, if Russia is not broken.
  • dgonni
    dgonni 15 September 2020 11: 34
    0
    Hydrogen fuel is still very far away on the horizon. But gas production from hydrides is almost at the end.
  • ccsr
    ccsr 15 September 2020 12: 23
    0
    Author:
    Alexey Podymov, Anatoly Ivanov, Doctor of Economics, Victor Malyshev, Candidate of Economic Sciences
    Summing up, let us make the assumption that all the acuteness of the confrontation around Nord Stream 2 will subside as soon as the presidential elections in the United States are held.

    I think the authors are too optimistic about the current situation, and hope that the elections will somehow affect the attitude of the US elite towards Russia and, in particular, to SP-2, unless, of course, a color revolution occurs after the elections. As for the six different options, I think it is necessary to give up on this at all, and seriously consider only the option of TEMPORARY termination of the laying of the gas pipeline and its conservation for the coming months or even years. Nothing bad will happen, there will only be capital mortification, but as far as I know, we are not the only ones who have invested in the project, which means that other investors will also feel bad. And after some time, when gas reserves in Europe will decrease, and the climate will slightly return to normal, the question of resuming the construction of the SP-2 will become obvious, and it will be brought to an end. So you have to be prepared for the delay in making a profit, and show restraint for several years, waiting for the Europeans themselves to demand the resumption of construction. Perhaps this is a pessimistic forecast, but it is real - I think so ...
    1. Roman13579
      Roman13579 15 September 2020 13: 24
      0
      So you have to be prepared for a delay in making a profit.


      Ok .. I'm ready ..))
  • Operator
    Operator 15 September 2020 12: 46
    0
    There was another gas explosion near Kiev on the Pomary-Uzhgorod pipeline: there are more explosions, good and different, on the rusted outskirts of the gas transportation system and no novichok can stop SP-2 bully
    1. iouris
      iouris 15 September 2020 12: 51
      -1
      Right now, the GRU will be accused again: "clumsy work".
      1. Gato
        Gato 15 September 2020 18: 30
        -1
        A criminal case has already been opened, who will be appointed guilty - a rhetorical question. But so far, the reason is called depressurization. Who brought up the match? The bubble was so robust, this is the hole from the explosion:
  • Ervin
    Ervin 15 September 2020 13: 08
    -4
    If Gremania abandons Nord Stream-2, it will have no future, just like China, if the Power of Siberia-2 is not built.
    1. Roman13579
      Roman13579 15 September 2020 13: 23
      0
      And only we always have a future ..))
      Really crap .. not the same as that of the Germans .. and even the Chinese salaries cannot be reached ..
      But who cares ..))
  • The eye of the crying
    The eye of the crying 15 September 2020 14: 24
    0
    water inlet plus cheap nuclear power produce hydrogen, oxygen and clean energy outlets


    There is no room for natural gas. And if you get hydrogen from methane, then carbon dioxide goes to waste, which is obviously not "green" enough.
  • 1536
    1536 15 September 2020 16: 58
    -1
    Quote: Essex62
    Cities? Don't tell your grandfather fairy tales. Only in Moscow and these "crowds" all of a certain eliment consisted. If a team would have demolished this evil in a matter of minutes.

    Dear, and Tbilisi (1989), Vilnius, Chisinau, even earlier Alma-Ata are not cities for you? These are facts that are difficult to argue with and impossible to refute.
  • sheet
    sheet 15 September 2020 20: 31
    -1
    [quote = Alexey Sommer] [quote = ROSS 42]
    Europe is discussing the introduction of a 4-day work week. [/ quote]
    AND? What gives you confidence that the salary will be like a 5-day? You are aware that many people receive an hourly salary, i.e. will salary be significantly less?
  • srha
    srha 15 September 2020 21: 58
    0
    How, how can Russians not want to get off the oil and gas needle, or rather the needles of oil and gas pipelines. Although I'm talking about the Russians, our oligarchs don't want to either, and the Americans are malfunctioning them ...
  • venaly
    venaly 16 September 2020 06: 45
    -1
    And I believe that now SP-2 is a factor in Trump's election campaign. After winning, Trump slows down hitting it. He will not be in power for more than two terms.
  • chingachguc
    chingachguc 16 September 2020 16: 59
    -1
    It is useless to put pressure on Russia - the States are putting pressure on Germany. And this is already a question of sovereignty. How long can you compromise your interests for the sake of American "solidarity"? Because you, having achieved your goal, will not rest. You will have to retreat indefinitely.

    It's all a matter of patience. When will it burst at the eternal terpily?
  • evgen1221
    evgen1221 16 September 2020 17: 21
    0
    Well, how do they extract oil shale, with what losses for nature, maybe it was worth ours to slow down deliveries to Europe. Like, yeah, start getting poisoned, and we'll look at how long will you last? I think the shale revolution would be instantly blown away, but I consider this another bubble like a gold scam in Peru and a mortgage bubble.
  • Barmal
    Barmal 18 September 2020 12: 44
    -1
    Maybe turn off gas for Europe completely? Stop bending and groveling? Start pouring resources into domestic gas consumption? For the population. My sofa analytics is flawed, of course, but how long can you be beaten and insulted by these sanctions for what you didn't do.
  • Igor Semenov
    Igor Semenov 19 September 2020 17: 50
    +1
    Russia is not a competitor to the Americans. Of course, not strategically, but economically.
    Lack of ammunition is never compensated by an excess of ambition
  • Alvis07
    Alvis07 20 September 2020 14: 26
    -5
    Sergei Tsekov, a member of the Federation Council Committee on Foreign Affairs, warned about "serious penalties" for Europe in case of refusal from the Nord Stream 2 gas pipeline

    https://www.rbc.ru/rbcfreenews/5f66a3119a7947a0d8bab373?utm_source=tw_rbc

    Voronezh can no longer be saved.
  • xomaNN
    xomaNN 20 September 2020 19: 17
    0
    The beginning of the real additional construction of several tens of kilometers of SP-2, somehow in fog hi Although the pipe-laying vessels are Russian, Gazprom and VVP have both a carrot and a stick to convince them to work. How long to wait?