Military Review

"Shining brass headbands ..." Grenadier mitres of Peter III close-up

249

And it all began with this triangular hat, with brims tucked up in the fashion of its time. It was worn by Peter the Great himself, by the heroes of Fenimore Cooper's novels, and even by the one-legged pirate John Silver from the 1938 movie Treasure Island. And all because without her nowhere. It is also in the funds of the Penza Regional Museum of Local Lore. You hold it in your hands, and you realize that you are holding it yourself history! By the way, the poet Mikhail Lomonosov, who wrote a loyal ode to the accession to the throne of Peter III, also wore it ...


Dearest gold of treasures,
Especially returned to us.
We are happy a hundredfold:
Peter the Great back
Ross country meets.
Peter erected with Catherine
And with Pavel, O drag bail!
He sent us joy for destiny
In bounties, an immeasurable god.
(Ode to the Most Blessed Most Sovereign Great Sovereign Emperor Peter Fedorovich, Autocrat ... the sovereign Duke of Golstein, the high heir of Norway, and so on and so forth ... to the most merciful sovereign ... and bought for the new year 1762 as an expression of genuine joy, zeal ... the most humble faithful


History of military clothing. In the material "On the mitres and uniforms of Emperor Peter III" from August 15, 2020 and its continuation “Everyone except the grenadiers! According to the "precepts" of Peter III " of August 21, 2020, it was already told about the very reform of uniforms undertaken by Emperor Peter III, and then by his widow Empress Catherine II, and about such a specific subject of his uniform as the grenadier mitra. But these materials contained photographs of mitres known to me, which were taken through glass. The mitres themselves were in the cupboards and it was impossible to see what they had "under the bottom", as well as how they were in the back. But I had to be content with these photos and black-and-white graphics from the book of A.V. Viskovaty. However, many readers of "VO" expressed their opinion that it would be very good to look at all these mitres from different sides, as well as to look at the uniforms of that era in color. Well, the desire of the consumer for the "seller" is a law, and if so, I tried to find ways, and today we finally get the opportunity to see everything that was previously hidden, namely all mitres and much more from the Penza regional museum of local lore and drawings from Viskovaty's book, made in color.
It is hardly worth repeating and retelling the history of the Gatchina regiments of Peter III. Let us only recall that they differed from the regiments of the Russian imperial army in that they were recruited exclusively by volunteers, and not only by foreigners (as they often write!), But also by Russians, that they had high discipline (in any case, the Gatchins were not noticed in serious faults there were, and drunkenness and revelry ... so who then from the guards at least once did not get drunk ?!), and that they wore uniforms that were very different from the traditional Russian.


These are the grenadiers that Peter I borrowed from England, adding the Russian eagle. There it was this type of grenadier who "did not go", but here, on the contrary, it took root for a long


As you can see, she had two visors, but one, being bent up, turned into a forehead. The sultan mount is visible on the back of the crown


The accompanying inscription to exhibit # 8330/21 (VM-7) reads: "Officer's hat, time of Peter I"

Moreover, the differences were both in style and in colors. For the representatives of the Russian military caste, the Gatchina uniforms seemed too narrow, although they were sewn according to the latest European fashion, and they also did not like their colors. Meanwhile, if you think about it, the new form was generally better than the old one. Firstly, fashion is fashion, including for military uniforms, and to follow it at that time was a matter of state importance. And secondly, the new uniform saved a lot of money. She did not require expensive red paint. The luxury of painting the uniforms of its soldiers red could then be afforded only by England, which had access to supplies of cochineal, while all other European countries had to buy red cloth from her. In addition, the new uniforms required less cloth, which again achieved great savings. Tons of paint, kilometers of cloth, gilded tin, tanning leather and much, much more - that's what the army then needed, and, of course, also whiskey curls and metal rods, weaved into a braid, in a word, everything was in the fashion of those years.


“In the kingdom of the meek Elizabeth Petrovna,” the Petrine grenadier acquired a more finished form ...


Horse-grenadier officer 1756-1762 from the book by A. V. Viskovaty "Historical description of clothing and weapons of the Russian troops, with drawings." Publisher: Military Printing House: SPb., 1841-1862. Page 320


Rear view of this grenadier. Pay attention to the pipe for the Sultan and downright huge "trump card"!

Although there was this and a certain meaning in everything. For example, when you look at photographs of the mitres of Peter III, note that they lack chin straps. But how, then, did they stay on the head and did not fall from it? But they were just fixed on the head with the help of a braid and brooches. It was a tricky thing, but ... but they did without a chin strap.

"Shining brass headbands ..." Grenadier mitres of Peter III close-up

"Grenadier" of the Royal Regiment of Ireland, 1710. Front view. Worsted thread embroidery on woolen cloth. It was owned by the family of Captain Robert Parker, who served in the Royal Regiment of Ireland during the Nine Years War (1688-1697) and the War of the Spanish Succession (1702-1713). National Army Museum, London

Like many other elements of the uniform, this headgear has come a long way from the simplest pointed top with a tassel to an elaborate headgear, which had different styles. Thus, the Prussian-style miter had a tapered brass or white-metal forehead plate with a fabric back and a lace braid. Mitres in the Russian style initially had a high brass plate over a leather cap with a visor in the back, but later we adopted the German model. But the British style was markedly different from all others. English mitres were made entirely of fabric. They had a high fabric front with elaborate regimental embroidery on the front and a sloping red back with white lining in the back.


The same "grenadier". Back view

Mitras were high, and all because, again, there was a fashion for tall and tall soldiers. But it was them who were most often killed, and not just soldiers, but also genetic producers were killed, which is why they began to try to compensate for the lack of growth in soldiers with the height of mitres, and Frederick II even passed a law according to which, in the event of the death of his father, all property passed to the shortest son!


Miter of the officer of the equestrian grenadiers of the Life-Dragoon regiment of the Goshtinsky Guard of Peter III. Fabric, wood, bronze, gilding, enamel, paint. Base diameter 191 mm. Height 297 mm. Penza Regional Museum of Local Lore


Side view


Rear view


And here he is, this officer of 1756-1762. Handsome! A. V. Viskovatov "Historical description of clothing and weapons of the Russian troops, with drawings." Publisher: Military Printing House: SPb., 1841-1862. P. 461

And, of course, every ruler tried to make the miter of his soldiers the most beautiful. The British, it is true, were content with embroidery, but they had it very bright and beautiful, so with the general bright red color of the uniform, this, in principle, was quite enough. But in Europe, red paint, as already mentioned, was not enough, there were used faded colors and the foreheads of the grenadier mitres began to be minted from brass. And here, it should be said frankly, Peter III managed to create almost the most beautiful miter in the Prussian style, and all because, unlike the same Frederick, he did not spare money on them. Neither before nor after him in the Russian army were there such beautiful grenadier metropolitan.


Fusilier's uniform of the Prussian infantry regiment 1740-1758 GMM them. A. V. Suvorov. Photo: Pane Kokhanku, 3x3zsave, exhibition "Pavel I and Suvorov", State Museum-Reserve "Gatchina", winter 2020

Well, when did mitres appear in the Russian army at all? Under Peter the Great, like many other things. So, already in 1719, Peter issued a decree to the old headdresses, "carpus", not to be, but to be triangular hats. And then it was Peter who introduced wigs into the army! Yes, Peter, and not Paul I at all, who ordered to wear wigs made of Ukrainian sheepskins along with hats to protect from the cold. It turns out that then Ukraine was also famous for its sheepskins, I wonder how it is now ...


In this photo you can see the Prussian hat-grenadier of the lower ranks of the 1st Life Guards Battalion of King Frederick II, 1745-1760. (left) and a fusilier cap of the lower ranks of the 33rd regiment of Baron Heinrich-August de la Mot-Fouquet (from 1774, Lieutenant General Georg Reynald von Thadden), 1742-1786. (on right). GMM them. A.V. Suvorov. Photo: Pane Kokhanku, 3x3zsave, exhibition "Pavel I and Suvorov", State Museum-Reserve "Gatchina", winter 2020


And the Prussians had a not too luxurious forehead! Economical! Monogram letters "FR": "Frederick the King". Photo: Pane Kokhanku, 3x3zsave, exhibition "Pavel I and Suvorov", State Museum-Reserve "Gatchina", winter 2020

The reason is the same, following the European fashion. They are wearing hats and we are wearing hats! They are in wigs and we are in wigs! From England he also borrowed leather "grenadiers" with two visors, which, by the way, did not receive distribution there. One visor bent forward, and at first the embossed emblem eagle was embroidered on it, and then the embossed heraldic eagle was sewn on, and the other behind, covered the neck.


Army grenadiers 1756-1762 On the forehead of the one on the right, the coat of arms of the city of Vladimir. So the Vladimir regiment. A. V. Viskovatov "Historical description of clothing and weapons of the Russian troops, with drawings." Publisher: Military Printing House: SPb., 1841-1862. P. 461

During the reign of Anna Ioannovna, the front visor turned into a high metal-lined forehead plate, the rear one disappeared, and the skin was replaced by a cloth on a whalebone frame. Under Elizaveta Petrovna, on each forehead badge, the coat of arms of the city, the name of which was given to this or that regiment, began to be depicted, and he himself was placed against the background of war trophies. But under the same Peter III, they refused to depict the coats of arms of cities on miter, and began to place the state coat of arms and monogram of the sovereign-emperor on them. Moreover, the mitres of the Holstein Guard and the Russian Imperial Guard differed in monograms. So, on the miter of the Holstein regiments there was only one Latin letter "P": "Peter", one because on his Holstein throne he was ... the first. The monogram "РF" is also known: Peter Fedorovich, and, finally, the monogram "PIII" adopted for the entire Russian imperial army: "Peter III", but only for a short time he had a chance to rejoice at this innovation of his!


Here it is, a miter with the monogram "РF", laid out on the enamel. Such mitres were only among the guards of the Holstein troops - the favorites of Peter III. Judging by the design and instrument colors of the miter, it belonged to the chief officer of the Essen grenadier battalion. Front view


She, side view


She, rear view


And this is Viskovatov again: private and officer of Weiss's grenadier battalion, 1762. A. V. Viskovatov "Historical description of clothing and weapons of the Russian troops, with drawings." Publisher: Military Printing House: SPb., 1841-1862. P. 454

In fact, there were many regiments and separate battalions in the Holstein Guard, and their number changed at different times. Although the number of each was small. Elizabeth waged a real war with the Holsteins. Several times she ordered Peter to dissolve her "amusing" ones, but then again agreed to create them. That is why so many examples of the mitres of Peter III have survived. First, these are the mitres of the time of his inheritance, then the period of accession, and, in addition, there were the mitres of privates and officers, as well as the mitres of individual regiments, again privates and officers.


Its internal structure: plates of a whalebone, lined with cloth, a liner made of linen was whipped. As you can see, if it were not for the "armature" of the whalebone and the forehead plate, the miter would have been the most ordinary cloth cap, as, in fact, it was from the very beginning!

So, in 1756, the Holstein Guard included: the Musketeer Tsege von Manteuffel Regiment, the Musketeer Duchess Regiment, the Musketeer Prince Wilhelm, the Grenadier Battalion, the Fusilier Battalion, the Life Dragoon Regiment, the Life Disabled Cuirassier Regiment.


But such a miter after the accession of Peter III was received by the guard, and then the whole army was to receive. Of course, she is not as beautiful as the mitres of his beloved Holsteins. Perhaps because the letter "P" was here in the Russian spelling and with the serial number "III"? While in Goshtinia, he was listed ... first!


Side view


Rear view


Miter of Guards Officers of 1762 A. V. Viskovatov "Historical description of clothing and weapons of the Russian troops, with drawings." Publisher: Military Printing House: SPb., 1841-1862. Page 400

In 1757, the Kruger grenadier battalion was added to them.

In 1758 - the fortress garrison, and the regiment of Prince Wilhelm was renamed the Naryshkin regiment.

In 1760, the Duchess's regiment was renamed the Kettenburg regiment, and a hussar regiment was also created.

In 1762 the Essen grenadier battalion and the Weiss grenadier battalion were added. So the "army" of Peter III consisted of about 6-7 infantry units and three cavalry.

It is known, for example, that in Prince William's Musketeer regiment the miter regiment of the grenadiers was decorated with the monogram "РF", the top of the miter was fawn, and the crown was crimson.


Officer's scarf from the era of Peter III. (Penza Regional Museum of Local Lore)


A two-cornered hat of Major Rachansky, a private chasseur company of the Gatchina troops (left), a grenadier of an ordinary battalion, Major Bad (right). GMZ "Pavlovsk". Photo: Pane Kokhanku, 3x3zsave, exhibition "Pavel I and Suvorov", State Museum-Reserve "Gatchina", winter 2020


Officer and chief officer of the Naryshkin regiment. A. V. Viskovatov "Historical description of clothing and weapons of the Russian troops, with drawings." Publisher: Military Printing House: SPb., 1841-1862. P. 400

And here is an example of the color scheme of the uniforms of the Essen grenadier battalion. And she clearly shows that she was completely unusual for the "heirs" of Peter the Great and that is why she aroused their rejection, plus they did not like the very personality of the monarch. The uniform is blue, the lapels, collar and cuffs are pink, the lining is red, the camisole is blange, the pants are white, the tie is red, the top of the cap is blange, the hem is red. Well, we know what all this led to in the end. Only beautiful miter remained in our memory!


The pink color really doesn't look very good on the uniform ... AV Viskovatov "Historical description of the clothes and weapons of the Russian troops, with drawings." Publisher: Military Printing House: SPb., 1841-1862. P. 398

PS The administration of the site and the author would like to express their gratitude to the directorate of the Penza Regional Museum of Local Lore and the curator of museum items Olga Viktorovna Dubravina for organizing the photography of museum exhibits, as well as to active members of the forum and authors of VO Pan Kokhank and 3x3zsave for the photos they provided.
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Articles from this series:
Everyone except the grenadiers! According to the "precepts" of Peter III
On the mitres and uniforms of Emperor Peter III
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  1. The leader of the Redskins
    The leader of the Redskins 17 September 2020 06: 04
    +9
    Well, and baseball caps!
    Thank you, Vyacheslav Olegovich. I have been to different museums, but I never paid attention to the old form. And from close there it is like ...
    1. cost
      cost 17 September 2020 06: 33
      16
      Kiver-mitra life guard sapper battalion

      Kiver-mitra life guard sapper battalion officer

      daily grenadier gatchina

      Grenadier of the Preobrazhensky Life Guards Regiment

      Life grenadier of the Pavlovsk guards regiment
      1. The leader of the Redskins
        The leader of the Redskins 17 September 2020 06: 37
        +7
        Come on! Here I weighed the kevlar helmet at the exhibition and tried it on. 2,2 kg. She seemed heavy, but at least because of the straps she sat on her head steadily (not that her own was Soviet, then on the eyes, then on the back of the head laughing )
        And in general, try to shake such a "cap"!
        1. Simargl
          Simargl 17 September 2020 09: 47
          +4
          Quote: Leader of the Redskins
          And in general, try to shake such a "cap"!
          So a fighter in a helmet turns around like in a frying pan, dodges enemy bullets, and in those days it was customary to fight in a tight formation.
      2. Pane Kohanku
        Pane Kohanku 17 September 2020 10: 54
        +6
        Kiver-mitra life guard sapper battalion officer


        it is in this that Colonel of the Life Guards Sapper Battalion Nikolai Konstantinovich Zatsepin (far right) is depicted. A competent engineer and a talented artist, he will die in 1855 near Sevastopol ...
  2. cost
    cost 17 September 2020 06: 47
    +8
    In the St. Petersburg story "The Bronze Horseman" A.S. Pushkin mentions grenadier hats
    "I love the warlike liveliness
    The Mars fields,
    Infantry horses and horses
    Monotonous beauty,
    In their slender build order
    The flapping of these banners is victorious,
    The shining of the caps of these brass,
    Shot through and through in battle "
    1. cost
      cost 17 September 2020 06: 50
      +8
      As representatives of a special military specialty, hand grenade throwers (or grenadas, as they were called then) grenadiers first appeared at the end of the XNUMXth century in the companies of the English infantry. At that time, infantry soldiers wore cocked hats on their heads. From a modern point of view, hats are not the most comfortable, but they did not interfere with musket firing.
      grenadier of the Pavlovsk grenadier regiment. 1811-1812

      The grenadiers, who had to throw small arms behind their backs, so as not to interfere with the throwing of grenades, were a completely different matter. At the same time, the long musket strove to hook on the cocked hat and throw it to the ground. Sheer inconvenience. They had no idea about ergonomics in the XNUMXth century, but there was someone smart among the British who figured out how to save the grenadiers from the annoying and dangerous inconvenience in battle. Special hats were sewn for the soldiers, conical and completely borderless.
      Following the British, appreciating the effectiveness of the new military specialty, the grenadiers (and with them the grenadier caps) were introduced to the infantry units by the French. All European armies are behind them. In Russia, grenadiers appeared by the will of Peter I. By the way, it was the "grenadiers" from the French "grenadier", and not the "grenadiers", as some believe. Copper embossed foreheads for grenadiers were invented in Prussia during the reign of Frederick the Great. In the second half of the XNUMXth century, this style was adopted by almost all European armies, including the Russian one.
      1. cost
        cost 17 September 2020 06: 54
        10
        In the 1914th century, European armies, except for the Prussian, gradually abandoned tall, shiny copper foreheads. They also fell out of use in Russia. However, the guardsmen of the Pavlovsk regiment went to parades in award-winning grenadiers until XNUMX.
        pictures of the 100th anniversary of the Pavlovsk Life Guards Regiment on May 15, 1890.








        1. cost
          cost 17 September 2020 07: 10
          +8
          The grenadier hats were made by the General Kriegs Commissariat, which ordered them from various merchants and "manufacturers" at a price of 30 to 50 rubles, depending on the rank. In the campaigns the grenadiers relied on "waxed" covers, which were included in the price.
          The nagrenadki's plaques were called "coats of arms from a grenade." They were minted on resin from copper brass. An exemplary badge and a grenade were made in 1731 by the artillery carved copper craftsman Friedrichson, according to the drawing presented by Count Minich. Both the Minikhov drawing and the exemplary "coats of arms from a grenade" were kept in the office of the Pavlovsky regiment's life guard before the revolution
          1. cost
            cost 17 September 2020 07: 17
            +5
            For those who are interested in the grenadiers, I recommend the wonderful work of V.I. Egorova "Grenadier hats of Russian dragoon and infantry regiments"

            link:http://www.reenactor.ru/ARH/PDF/Egorov_05.pdf
            1. cost
              cost 17 September 2020 07: 28
              +9
              Grenadier cap of the Pavlovsk Regiment Life Guards mod. 1802, shot by enemy bullets. As a sign of the regiment's merits in the battles with Napoleon's army in Prussia, Emperor Alexander I ordered the grenadiers of the Pavlovsky regiment to wear hats in the form in which they left the Battle of Friedland, and also to engrave "on the caps shot through the names of those lower ranks who carried them with them with them. battlefields ... to preserve forever the memory of these honored soldiers ... ".
              Named grenadier (Alexei Ivanov) of the lower rank of the Pavlovsk grenadier regiment, sample 1802-1917. photo from (collection) of the State Memorial Museum of A.V. Suvorov,

              1. cost
                cost 17 September 2020 07: 33
                +7
                WHERE DOES GRENADER HAVE THE HATS OF THE CATHOLIC PRIEST?

        2. kalibr
          17 September 2020 10: 56
          +5
          What gorgeous photos you found! Most sincere thanks!
          1. Undecim
            Undecim 17 September 2020 12: 23
            +3
            Only Dmitry forgot to point out that this is a remake of the late XNUMXth century, a replica, in modern terms.
            1. cost
              cost 17 September 2020 16: 54
              +5
              And I didn't know that at all. looked at the source. - Vic is right. hi
              1. cost
                cost 17 September 2020 20: 02
                +4
                PS... Minus is not mine. Someone from the "admirers" put it to you. It's not clear why
        3. Astra wild
          Astra wild 17 September 2020 16: 35
          +5
          Dmitry "Rich", thanks for your photos, I especially liked: the right soldier in the top picture: such a mustache. Impressive
          1. cost
            cost 17 September 2020 17: 13
            +7
            I especially liked: the right soldier in the top photo: such a mustache. Impressive

            No wonder - ladies have always liked the mustachioed soldiers wink
            1. Astra wild
              Astra wild 17 September 2020 18: 13
              +4
              I remember, I remember this movie
        4. Astra wild
          Astra wild 17 September 2020 20: 33
          +5
          Dmitry "Rich", now I was looking at the soldier on the left, on the second from above, some kind of museum gun. I am not a weapons specialist, although I have shot a lot, but with a pistol. In my opinion, the soldiers have guns of different systems. Probably, in honor of the anniversary, they dressed up soldiers in the uniforms of the Pavlovsk era and the corresponding weapons, and the soldiers in the first picture in the third have rifles, but they do not look like three-line ones. At least I have a book: "Small arms" Beetle and there are drawn "mosinki" and they do not look like
          1. cost
            cost 17 September 2020 21: 33
            +2
            I can’t answer. My guess is that for photographing for their anniversary they were equipped according to different historical epochs of the Pavlovsky Life Guards regiment. And in arms it is better to ask a question to Mikhail, Konstantin, Nikolai, or Anton. They are more competent
            1. Icelord
              Icelord 18 September 2020 01: 36
              +2
              STE rifle Berdan 2. That which is not a Russian infantry rifle of 1808, it is in the second photo
          2. Icelord
            Icelord 18 September 2020 01: 46
            +2
            Yeah, these are Berdanks
      2. Undecim
        Undecim 17 September 2020 08: 14
        +7
        As representatives of a special military specialty, hand grenade throwers (or grenades, as they were then called) grenadiers first appeared at the end of the XNUMXth century in the companies of the British infantry.
        French infantry. Ten years earlier than English.
        1. cost
          cost 17 September 2020 08: 49
          +6
          Quite a controversial issue.
          The first mentions of the use of hand grenades for combat purposes date back to the Chinese Ming Dynasty, when Chinese soldiers defending the Great Wall of China used something resembling hand grenades. In Europe, the first hand grenades were used in the Spanish and Austrian armies, as well as in England during the Civil War.
          But, the very concept of "grenadiers" appeared in 1667 in England. There were allocated (selected for physical strength and the ability to throw) 4 people in a company for throwing grenades (grenades); they got this name.
          This invention was taken over by the French king Louis XIV, and within a few years a new branch of the military was introduced in all major European armed forces. This can be easily verified by looking through any encyclopedia.
          But the first equestrian grenadiers appeared under Louis XIV, who established in 1676 a company "grenadiers a cheval", which was equipped with a trench tool to correct the route of the king.
          (GRENADERS in the Brockhaus and Euphron Encyclopedic Dictionary)
          1. Pane Kohanku
            Pane Kohanku 17 September 2020 10: 18
            +5
            This invention was taken over by the French king Louis XIV, and within a few years a new branch of the military was introduced in all major European armed forces. This can be easily verified by looking through any encyclopedia.

            Dmitry, I will add images. drinks Here is a drawing of a grenadier from an infantry textbook "French Military Art", Paris, printed by P. Giffard, royal engraver, rue Saint-Jacques, at the image of St. Teresa, with royal permission. On the margins of the title there is a note - 1696. hi

            The grenadier is armed with a flint fusée (in contrast to the musketeer from the same textbook, who clutches a wick musket in his hands). In close combat, the grenadier had to, after firing a shot, throw the fuzee behind his back, and pick up the sword. soldier
            1. Undecim
              Undecim 17 September 2020 11: 27
              +6
              Quite a controversial issue.
              Once controversial, let's argue. Just don't copy-paste Wikipedia, especially the Russian-language one. A lot of places are occupied, but not very much with the reliability of information.
              This can be easily verified by looking through any encyclopedia.
              In fact, there are very few encyclopedias that one could look through on this issue, especially in Russian.
              The concept of "encyclopedia" today is greatly devalued due to the fact that this name is molded on their opuses by all and sundry.
              In the same Brockhaus, which you refer to, but apparently forgot to look, there is nothing about the time and place of the appearance of the grenadiers.
              But in the "Military Encyclopedia" Colonel of the General Staff VF Novitsky is.

              This is just one page. The article is large and very detailed.
              1. Undecim
                Undecim 17 September 2020 11: 51
                +7
                Let's look at other sources for verification. Germanic, for example.
                Take the 68-volume Grosse vollständige Universal-Lexicon Aller Wissenschafften und Künste, The Great Complete Universal Dictionary of All Arts and Sciences, published between 1731 and 1754 in Halle and Leipzig. Volume 11, p. 296.

                The Old Germanic language is not easy to understand, so I will cite a fragment in modern spelling.
                Granadier, Grenadiers, gehören zur Infanterie, und ob sie schon kein a partes Corpo ausmachen, so sind sie doch eine besondere Militz, deren Verrichtung der Name anzeiget. Es sind nemlich Soldaten, welche die Granaten, sonderlich in denen Stürmen, bey Attaquirung eines verdeckten Weges, eines Aussen-Wercks, und so weiter werffen.
                In Franckreich steckte man erst 4.unter eine Compagnie, an. 1670 aber nahm der König alle Granadiers von denen Regimentern, und machte eine besondere Compagnie. Vor dem Holländischen Kriege, so an. 1672 seinen Anfang nahm, musten die 30. ersten Regimenter, jedes eine Compagnie Grenadiers an der Spitze haben, hernach hatten alle Regimenter und Batailions dergleichen. Die Granadiers sind kein besonder Bataillon, sondern marchiren an der Fronte a la tete jeder Batailion. Da nun ihre Zahl sich vermehret, so haben sie auch mehr zu thun, als eine Granate zu werffen, bekommen, und man bedienet sich derselben in allen vigoureusen Actionen. Vor einem Mousquetiner hat er darinnen den Vorzug, daß man ihn, wo es gefährlich zugehet, gebrauchet. Dabey muß er noch Ober- und Unter-Gewehr tragen. Man erwählet hierzu ansehnliche, starcke, dauerhaffte, ramassirte Leute, und sucht gemeiniglich aus jeder Compagnie 8. biß 10. Mann aus, nachdem die Compagnie starck ist.
                Franckreich - this is France. You can translate the text if you wish.
                1. Undecim
                  Undecim 17 September 2020 11: 58
                  +5
                  Well, we'll see where the British can go without them. The author, however, is the Canadian historian Rene Chartran, but his book, Louis XIV's army, was published in London.
                  1. Undecim
                    Undecim 17 September 2020 12: 19
                    +3
                    I am ready to evaluate your counterarguments.
                2. 3x3zsave
                  3x3zsave 17 September 2020 21: 38
                  +4
                  Old Germanic is not easy to understand
                  I think it is Middle German.
                  1. Undecim
                    Undecim 18 September 2020 01: 37
                    +3
                    Yes, then I am so, in view of the ancient font screwed about the old German. If we proceed from the history of the German language and the time of the publication of the book, then this is most likely neuhochdeutsche Sprache - the New High German language. Although frühneuhochdeutsch is also possible - Early New High German.
              2. Astra wild
                Astra wild 17 September 2020 17: 31
                +2
                Viktor Nikolaevich, it looks like you don't really feel sorry for Vika. And I am a sinner, very often I dive into Vika and Russian-speaking
                1. 3x3zsave
                  3x3zsave 17 September 2020 21: 36
                  +2
                  My Beautiful Stranger! It's just VikNik, he speaks three languages, and speaks three more, but we, with you - no!
                2. Undecim
                  Undecim 18 September 2020 01: 38
                  +3
                  I don't mind. There are too many mistakes in it.
              3. Astra wild
                Astra wild 17 September 2020 17: 53
                +4
                "in the military encyclopedia" of Colonel of the General Staff V. f. Novitsky "if I was not mistaken, then there are two editions of" VE ": ts" Tsarist "and" Soviet ".. I held in my hands, volume 2 (1912), and also: 1,3 volumes (1963) We had our "bati" on the shelf.
                And I liked the Encyclopedia of Pomegranate, 1924, they look impressive, but it was not mine and I did not open it
            2. Undecim
              Undecim 17 September 2020 12: 12
              +6
              Dmitry, I will add images.
              The very first image of the grenadier and his weapons known today is an illustration from the book of the French military engineer, geographer and cartographer Alain Manesson-Mallet "The Book of Mars or Military Affairs" in 1671.

              The grenadier, of course, is French.
              1. Pane Kohanku
                Pane Kohanku 17 September 2020 12: 15
                +3
                The grenadier, of course, is French.

                the shape differs little from the one that was 25 years later. I bow, Messire! hi
                1. Undecim
                  Undecim 17 September 2020 12: 32
                  +4
                  Mutually. Somewhere the opponent got lost.
                  1. cost
                    cost 17 September 2020 18: 31
                    +6
                    .
                    Where did your opponent get lost?

                    The job worked. Only an hour since I returned hi
              2. cost
                cost 18 September 2020 00: 46
                +2
                Yes, undoubtedly an earlier mention, but is it a grenadier per se, Vic?
                After all, since the 30-year war, grenades have been thrown by everything, and not only the French and the British
                And here is William Karman in his fundamental work "The History of Firearms. From Ancient Times to the XNUMXth Century"

                Referring to "Memoirs" by John Evelyn, he describes the grenadiers:
                "... In 1678, John Evelyn visited the army encamped on Hunslow moor and saw an innovation there:" ... a new breed of our soldiers, called the grenadiers, who are skilled in throwing hand grenades, which each has a full bag. They have fur caps with a copper top, just like the Janissaries, which makes them look very ferocious, and some still have long caps hanging from the back "

                Translation: - “… In 1678 John Evelyn visited the army camped in the Hunslow Wasteland, and saw there an innovation:“… a new kind of our soldiers, called grenadiers, who are skilled in throwing hand grenades, which each have a full bag. They have fur hats with a copper top, exactly like those of the Janissaries, which makes them look very fierce, while others have long caps hanging from the back. "
                Now it looks more like "a new kind of soldier"
                however, this is IMHO, even Encyclopedia Britannica itself vaguely bypasses the question of "primogeniture":
                Grenadier, a soldier specially selected and trained to throw grenades. The earliest grenadiers (late XNUMXth century) were not organized into special units, but by the middle of the XNUMXth century they formed special companies within battalions. Throwing a grenade required exceptional strength and courage, and accidents were not uncommon. Grenadiers received a higher salary, special privileges, were distinguished by their tall stature, a dandy uniform and a high headdress in the form of Mithra (Shako). Armed with heavy axes to break through barricades and other obstacles, they were used, in particular, in siege and trench warfare.
                1. Undecim
                  Undecim 18 September 2020 01: 25
                  +3
                  but is it a grenadier as such
                  Are you kidding me, Dmitry? I have brought you pages from books with the text where everything is painted.
                  Dmitry, no-names do not write fundamental research, and no one knows William Karman. Can you tell me anything about him other than that he is a "recognized expert"?
                  Recognized by whom. The language in which his book is written is clearly not professional.
                  And this "recognized expert" refers to the diaries of John Evelyn, whose entire army experience consists of six days spent in the army camp of the Dutch army in 1641.
                  And the fact that in 1678 on the wasteland in Hanslow he saw "their new kind of soldiers", so here he is right.
                  For England, they were new, appearing in England in 1677, ten years after France.
          2. Liam
            Liam 17 September 2020 10: 44
            +3
            Quote: Rich
            Quite a controversial issue

            Is that for the dashing copy-paste of Russian Wikipedia.
            Grenadier companies were first formed in the British Army in 1678, and were not finally abolished until 1855 ...

            Grenadiers had their origins in the particular demands of 17th-century siege warfare. They made their first appearance in France, in the armies of Louis XIV, and their original role was to act as leading assault-troops in attacks on enemy ramparts
            .

            https://www.military-history.org/articles/early-modern/british-grenadiers-soldier-profile.htm

            The first were the French.
            Jean Martinet of the Régiment du Roi in 1667.
        2. Liam
          Liam 17 September 2020 10: 38
          +3
          Quote: Undecim
          Ten years earlier than English.

          At 11)
      3. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 17 September 2020 20: 17
        +3
        who now and then had to throw small arms behind their backs,
        Hello Dmitry!
        Did they throw it? I can't say for sure when swivels and belts appeared on small arms, but it seems to me that in the first half of the 19th century.
        1. cost
          cost 17 September 2020 22: 30
          +3
          Greetings, Anton.
          And how could you not throw it behind your back? You can't light a grenade wick with one hand

          Now for the belts. Alexandra Viskovatov in her work "Historical description of clothing and weapons of the Russian troops, with drawings, compiled by the highest command", 1841-1862. wrote about the Peter's officer fusions - ... "Which had a varied finish of officer's guns, which received boxes of valuable wood, trunks and locks with carved ornaments and even gilding and gun belts with gold braid "
          Fuzei of infantry regiments of the Petrine army in different years: a) 1701; b) 1710; c) 1717; d) 1723

          a photo reenactor with "Petrovskaya fusion"

          and here is the museum original with a swivel
          1. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave 18 September 2020 06: 06
            +2
            Thank you, Dmitry!
  3. 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 17 September 2020 06: 50
    11
    Thank you, Vyacheslav Olegovich!
    To be honest, it was Nikolai who photographed, and I was standing nearby.
    1. cost
      cost 17 September 2020 07: 22
      +8
      Wonderful photos. Many thanks to Nikolai and Anton. And, of course, to the author of the article, Vyacheslav. Great work good
    2. bubalik
      bubalik 17 September 2020 09: 35
      +6
      and I, so, stood next to.

      Athos, Porthos and D. Artagnan stole ale from the British. And Aramis? - Vera mixed - stood on the watchtower near the park. lol hi
      1. Catfish
        Catfish 17 September 2020 12: 43
        +5
        "I once stood on the line, holding a Nagant in my hand,
        And suddenly, don't meet the citizens ... "(C) laughing

        Hello, Sergey! drinks
        1. bubalik
          bubalik 17 September 2020 13: 37
          +6
          Hello Uncle Kostya! hi
          - People live! They go to museums. In the Bible ...
          - Do not express yourself, Billy!
          - To the libraries ... laughing
          1. Catfish
            Catfish 17 September 2020 14: 01
            +4
            Is that the Billy who got killed in his car in his own villa? laughing
            1. Astra wild
              Astra wild 17 September 2020 17: 37
              +4
              I think this Billy got drunk in the saloon. When I first watched: "The Man from Boulevard des Capuchins", I waited until the last that Billy would catch up with them
              1. Catfish
                Catfish 17 September 2020 18: 00
                +5
                Good evening, Vera. love
                This film is really very good, but to be honest, speaking about Billy, I did not even think of him. I believe that films about Americans should be made by the Americans themselves, as well as the Russians about Russians. And then some get "spreading cranberries with vodka from a samovar", while others, as Zadornov said, (if I'm not mistaken) - "even the muzzles of their mustangs are Ryazan." request smile
                Remember Schwartz as a native Russian policeman, or Smekhov as Smok, and how Kings and Cabbage was disfigured here Oh Henry. So, I also remembered "their" film adaptation of "War and Peace", one of our critics wrote well that in this film the feast of the Russian guards officers was more like a performance by a gypsy choir. laughing
                1. Astra wild
                  Astra wild 17 September 2020 18: 23
                  +4
                  Konstantin, I read in "Screen" that the English consider Holmes performed by Livanov to be a masterpiece. I somehow went crazy to watch: "Holmes" of the American film adaptation and I will tell you: the "American" version is much worse than ours
                  1. Catfish
                    Catfish 17 September 2020 20: 09
                    +3
                    Holmes with Watson performed by Livanov and Solomin is a pleasant and rare exception to the rule. In Moscow, opposite the British Embassy, ​​there is a monument to this couple, Holmes and Watson and at the same time to Livanov and Samoilov.
                    By the way, Vasily Livanov, who played Sherlock Holmes, became an Honorary Chevalier of the Order of the British Empire in 2006 precisely for creating the image of the "great detective."
                  2. 3x3zsave
                    3x3zsave 17 September 2020 21: 45
                    +4
                    See Holmes in Guy Ritchie's vision.
                    1. Phil77
                      Phil77 18 September 2020 10: 05
                      +3
                      Quote: 3x3zsave
                      See Holmes in Guy Ritchie's vision.

                      Good morning Anton!
                      And if, and if the film adaptation was taken up by the masters of cinema from Bollywood?!?! laughing Then everything that had been filmed before them would have turned out to be just a masterpiece!
                      Dancing Sherlock! Oh, that's strong! wink
                      And the singing Mrs. Hudson?
                      1. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 18 September 2020 10: 23
                        +3
                        Sergei! hi
                        I also like Holmes performed by Cumberbatch
                      2. Phil77
                        Phil77 18 September 2020 10: 30
                        +2
                        Quote: 3x3zsave
                        Like Cumberbatch

                        Yes! Looked with pleasure. Strong actor.
                      3. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 18 September 2020 11: 11
                        +1
                        I saw him on stage, not live, of course.
            2. Phil77
              Phil77 17 September 2020 19: 53
              +4
              Quote: Sea Cat
              ... I believe that films about Americans should be made by the Americans themselves, as well as the Russians about Russians.

              Good evening Konstantin!
              And if you remember the ever-memorable films about * foreign * life of the Riga Film Studio?
              Wow! Although ... Here * The last relic * was not bad in my opinion? No? But as far as I remember, it was filmed at * Tallinnfilm *. crying
              1. Catfish
                Catfish 17 September 2020 20: 00
                +4
                Hello, Sergey!
                "The Last Relic" is an excellent film, especially for that time, but ... it is not about "American cowboys", Estonians made the film about themselves. And the rest of the crafts of the Riga Film Studio ... in a nutshell: "And you, friends, no matter how you dress up, you are not suitable for musicians." (C) request
                1. Phil77
                  Phil77 17 September 2020 20: 11
                  +4
                  Quote: Sea Cat
                  American cowboys "

                  About American cowboys .... * The roads that we choose * from * Business people * immediately come to mind. Well, not about cowboys, of course, but about bandits. But .. all the same, after all.
                  1. Catfish
                    Catfish 17 September 2020 20: 24
                    +3
                    Cool movie. But you noticed that all three short stories were filmed without showing the surrounding world, a minimum of a landscape, a minimum of extras, there you only follow the great acting of the actors, not paying attention to the entourage.
                  2. Phil77
                    Phil77 17 September 2020 20: 27
                    +4
                    And then. Of course. Combined filming. And .... Actors !!!! But the costume designer also worked out his bread * excellent *! good
                  3. Catfish
                    Catfish 17 September 2020 20: 44
                    +4
                    Right. In general, I was dragged away from Smirnov as a cowboy, a prairie conqueror, and always regretted that we could not find him a normal "Cowboy Colt" and gave him "Smith and Wesson" (Russian model of 1871) for filming, sort of like an American cannon too.
                  4. Phil77
                    Phil77 17 September 2020 20: 50
                    +4
                    Lord! Yes there is a constellation !!!! Vitsin !!!! Plyatt !!!!! Smirnov !!!!! Nikulin !!!!!! Millyar !!!!!
                    Didn’t forget anyone? wink
                    Well, that little red-haired boy!
          2. ee2100
            ee2100 17 September 2020 21: 47
            +3
            The film is based on the novel by Bornhee, an Estonian writer. It was filmed about the time of the Livonian War. And the main character of "Gabrielle" is actually the Russian prince Gavrila. So the Estonians were filming about "us"
            1. Catfish
              Catfish 17 September 2020 22: 47
              +4
              "Gavrila served as a postman,
              Gavrila delivered mail. "(C).

              Zstonets ... about us ... of course! laughing
            2. ee2100
              ee2100 18 September 2020 05: 38
              -1
              You, as I understand it, have not watched the film or read the book, but you are trying to be malicious. The main roles in the film are played by Russian and Latvian actors, and the film was actually shot at a Tallinn film studio. Best film to date.
              You probably think that the Livonian War was between Russia and Estonia?
            3. Catfish
              Catfish 18 September 2020 13: 36
              +2
              You, as I understand it ...

              You don’t understand ... I watched the film, and there were two Russians in the lead roles - Alexander Goloborodko and Rollan Bykov (if Goloborodko does not consider himself Ukrainian), unfortunately I don’t remember the name of the director. But I remember that after the film went to cinemas, Bykov's catchphrase began to circulate in Moscow: "Guys have men and women ..."
              During the Livonian War, no Estonia existed in nature. And in general, how do you know what I think, psychic you are our site. hi
            4. ee2100
              ee2100 18 September 2020 18: 22
              0
              You are kind of aggressive. I'm not going to get into your thoughts. Live in peace. I understand that this film touched upon very deep problems of that time, but not many people see it. Incl. and you. On this film it is necessary to write more than one article and this is not enough.
            5. Catfish
              Catfish 18 September 2020 18: 56
              +1
              Yes, I already live quietly, and I have no trace of aggression towards you. And I did not say a word about the "deep problems of that time"; in my opinion, there were enough of them, and not only with the Baltics. And if you have something to say about this, write an article, some problems have not disappeared now, and at the same time others have increased. hi
            6. ee2100
              ee2100 19 September 2020 09: 12
              +1
              You did not like my comment that the Estonian film "The Last Relic" is a film about our history and you allowed yourself to sneer about this topic, but as a confident user of Wikipedia, you inserted a quote about men in your next comment and listed a number of actors. Thus showing the knowledge of the issue. And in fact, in the film, Estonians are mostly either robbers or peaceful peasants. There are no other characters.
              I see in the film not today's problems of the Tribaltic, but what was almost 500 years ago. Who is Prince Gabriel (Gabriel)? The answer to this question is not easy. It's easier to discuss Soviet-era grenadier mitres and salads.
              I can write an article, but it will not be published. One has already been wrapped.
            7. Catfish
              Catfish 19 September 2020 10: 57
              0
              The answer to this question is not easy. It's easier to discuss Soviet-era grenadier mitres and salads.

              You should not be so frankly jealous of a more successful author, envy obscures the eyes and drains the nervous system, and nerve cells do not recover.
              And in the film, in addition to robbers and peasants, there are also clergy and nobles. As for Gabriel, there is nowhere and no one indicated that he is a prince, a "free man" as he calls himself, the boulevard is out of work, but most likely just a lone bandit.
              You called me "a confident user of Wikipedia", obviously tried to hurt you somehow, unfortunately, I have to disappoint you: I sometimes look at Wiki, but I am not an adherent of it.
            8. ee2100
              ee2100 19 September 2020 11: 44
              +1
              I do not envy the "more successful author", we communicate well with him. And he knows my attitude to many publications on this site, incl. and him.
              You may have reviewed the film, but there is still a book, it has been translated into Russian, and this is the basis of the script and it is called "Prince Gabriel ......."
              So he is not a "free man" or a "lone bandit". This is a superficial glance.
              Of all the characters in the book and the film, only Ivo Scheckenberg is historical.
              I myself use Wikipedia and do not see anything shameful.
            9. Catfish
              Catfish 19 September 2020 11: 56
              +1
              You may have reviewed the film, but there is still a book, it has been translated into Russian, and this is the basis of the script and it is called "Prince Gabriel ......."
              So he is not a "free man" or a "lone bandit". This is a superficial glance.

              I saw the film in my distant youth and on a wide screen, I haven't watched it recently, but I remember it well, it was a rare picture for that time.
              Not only did I not read the book, but I didn’t even suspect its existence, so I can only judge by the movie.
              And, if "Of all the characters in the book and the film, only Ivo Schekenberg is historical," then what about Gabriel - Prince Gavrila?

              Both heroes and madam.
            10. ee2100
              ee2100 19 September 2020 13: 06
              +3
              Prince Gabriel is the prototype of one of the fugitive boyars during the reign of Ivan IV, everyone knows about Kurbsky, but few people know that there were quite a few of them who fled from repression not only to Lithuania, but incl. and to Livonia, where many of them fought against the Russian troops. Ivo Scheckenberg (in the film) calls Gabriel "named brother". And from history we know that Ivo is the son of a coin minter from Tallinn, where he most likely met Prince Gabriel during the siege of Tallinn. Both fought on the same side. Later, Ivo Shekenberg put together a fairly large detachment of partisans or robbers (as you like) and went for a walk through the territory of modern Estonia. This period is shown in the film.
              The story of Ivo himself is quite interesting. But he “parizanil” so much that the field of his captivity, even the offer to exchange him for three Russian boyars did not save him from the ax.
              Ivo is German by nationality, but modern Estonian historians, etc. this does not stop at all and he is presented as a national hero.
            11. Catfish
              Catfish 19 September 2020 15: 12
              +1
              Thank you, Alexander, everything is really very interesting and extremely confusing. hi
            12. ee2100
              ee2100 19 September 2020 16: 28
              +2
              I don't think it's "extremely confusing", but what's interesting is yes. And as always, some kind of "devilry". A couple of hours ago I took a photo of the graffiti based on The Last Relic. It was more appropriate to post it here, but due to technical problems I cannot. If you send to my e-mail: [email protected] what "signal" I will send you
            13. Catfish
              Catfish 19 September 2020 18: 37
              +1
              Thank you, Alexander, not worth it, I'm not a fan of graffiti.
            14. ee2100
              ee2100 19 September 2020 21: 32
              +2
              Well, in vain. This graffiti did not exist a couple of weeks ago. I have corresponded with you on the topic and here they are! I put it on Instagram called "heroes" the last relics "in the old city" I can throw it off on the wattsap, it's very interesting and successful, which is the topic of our discussion!
            15. Catfish
              Catfish 20 September 2020 14: 37
              0
              Alexander, I sent you my address in a personal message.
        2. Catfish
          Catfish 20 September 2020 19: 13
          +3
          I decided to insert it here, otherwise, while a suitable article is still "drawn". smile
        3. ee2100
          ee2100 20 September 2020 20: 47
          +2
          What a wonderful humor of the artist - Agnes eats a piece of his leg, and Gabrielle captures it so that she can share it later with someone.
          Past and present in one graffiti
  4. Astra wild
    Astra wild 20 September 2020 16: 47
    0
    "represent as a rational hero" if there is no one of their own, then you can "borrow" the German.
    What name has this book?
  5. Astra wild
    Astra wild 20 September 2020 16: 42
    +1
    I myself "graze" there, periodically recheck
  • Phil77
    Phil77 17 September 2020 20: 01
    +6
    Yes! A * The Last Inch *? Lenfilmovsky, with the magnificent Nikolai Kryukov?
    * But a fool-bullet entered between the eyes
    him at the end of the day .... * good
    1. Catfish
      Catfish 17 September 2020 20: 18
      +3
      Yes, a childhood film, I remember well. But this is all the beginning of the sixties, then they still knew how to shoot. And you remember a later nightmare called "The Headless Horseman".
      1. Phil77
        Phil77 17 September 2020 20: 23
        +4
        This is yes! In this movie I like the most ... the headless horseman! bully
  • Astra wild
    Astra wild 17 September 2020 20: 42
    +3
    I watched the "last relic" on YouTube 1 back, her and "The Devil's Servant" my "girlfriend" really liked the scene when the gluttons competed
    1. Phil77
      Phil77 17 September 2020 20: 45
      +3
      Quote: Astra wild
      The devil's servants "

      Do you know Vera this film has a sequel! * Servants of the Devil in the Devil's Mill *. I recommend watching.
      1. Catfish
        Catfish 17 September 2020 22: 50
        +3
        The nightmarish attempt by the people of Riga to surpass the "Relic", in my opinion, sucks. Yes, and Ots they did not have.
      2. Astra wild
        Astra wild 18 September 2020 20: 33
        +3
        Konstantin "cat", looked at how you criticize and decided for herself.
        "Maxim Perepelitsa" - "Soldier Ivan Brovkin" are good films, but Maxim is somehow more colorful. My grandmother told me that "Brovkin" was ripped off from "Perepelitsa", I don't know whether it is or not, but what, in my opinion, is 100% parasha is "Ivan Brovkin on Tsilin". I used to hear about him from my father-in-law, and in the 90s I looked half the first time in the part and decided: I will NEVER look again.
      3. Catfish
        Catfish 18 September 2020 20: 39
        +2
        I agree with you, "Maxim" beats "Brovkin" in all respects, both in acting and in directing. smile
        By the way, in this film the Kalashnikov assault rifle was shown for the first time on the screen.
      4. Phil77
        Phil77 18 September 2020 20: 47
        +2
        Quote: Astra wild
        ... My grandmother told me that "Brovkin" was ripped off from "Perepelitsa", I don't know whether it is or not,

        These two films were released almost simultaneously and after the screening ... a scandal happened! Screenwriter * Maxim * Ivan Stadnyuk accused scriptwriter * Ivan * Georgy Mdivani of plagiarism. In general, there is a lot in common between the films, but there is also a difference if Maxim is presented as such cunning a Ukrainian boy who is not averse to leaving at the expense of others. That Ivan Brovkin looks like a village bumpkin gradually turning into an excellent student in combat and political training. However, Maxim follows a similar path. bully
      5. Aviator_
        Aviator_ 19 September 2020 22: 43
        +1
        Ivan Brovkin is so positive, already disgusting. Completely cardboard character. And Maxim Perepelitsa turned out to be very life-like.
      6. Astra wild
        Astra wild 20 September 2020 17: 05
        +1
        So there was plagiarism after all?
      7. Phil77
        Phil77 20 September 2020 17: 13
        +1
        Quote: Astra wild
        So there was plagiarism after all?

        Georgy Mdivani had troubles in the party line and in the cinema. According to Stadnyuk's recollections, Mdivani called him and apologized for this story.
        Conclusions? Well ... do it yourself. recourse
  • Phil77
    Phil77 18 September 2020 20: 51
    +1
    Quote: Astra wild
    100% of the parasha is "Ivan Brovkin on Tsilin".

    And I would not call this film like that! A normal comedy film with an ideological bias for its time! soldier
  • Aviator_
    Aviator_ 19 September 2020 22: 40
    +3
    "Maxim Perepelitsa" was based on the play by Stadnyuk, which by that time had already been in the repertoire of theaters for a couple of years. The famous screenwriter Mdivani really stole the plot.
  • Astra wild
    Astra wild 20 September 2020 17: 08
    +1
    And how to characterize it so that the moderators do not swear, you piggyback?
  • Aviator_
    Aviator_ 20 September 2020 19: 04
    +1
    And how to characterize it so that the moderators do not swear, you piggyback?

    This obsequious "creator" close to the throne cannot be characterized by any censorship word.
  • Astra wild
    Astra wild 18 September 2020 20: 16
    +1
    I remember this sequel, but it's kind of lucky
  • 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 17 September 2020 21: 42
    +4
    "Because I went out today" on a gallop ",
    And Kolka Demin is on the corner, on the gazebo "(C)
  • Pane Kohanku
    Pane Kohanku 17 September 2020 10: 22
    +6
    To be honest, it was Nikolai who photographed, and I was standing nearby.

    To be honest, it wouldn't have worked without you. drinks
    1. cost
      cost 17 September 2020 21: 17
      +2
      Nikolay photographed it

      Yes, Nikolai loved to photograph military uniform yes





      The Emperor himself, Empress Alexandra Feodorovna, Empress Dowager Maria Feodorovna and all the children were passionate amateur photographers.
      Now fast forward to today. Here our Nikolai - Pane Kokhanka, photographing under the wise guidance and "His Excellency's own supervision" Anton, is generally beyond praise. Angle, quality good Thanks guys
      1. Pane Kohanku
        Pane Kohanku 18 September 2020 11: 06
        +2
        Now fast forward to today. Here our Nikolai - Pane Kokhanka, photographing under the wise guidance and "His Excellency's own supervision" Anton, is generally beyond praise. Angle, quality good Thank you guys

        Dmitry, sincere thanks for the kind words, we tried. Perhaps these are our best photos from museums. Because everywhere you have to take pictures through glass - it doesn't matter.
        The Emperor himself, Empress Alexandra Feodorovna, Empress Dowager Maria Feodorovna and all the children were passionate amateur photographers.

        Well, unfortunately, the king was unimportant as a statesman.
        By the way, the exhibition was held in Gatchina. And the last tsar who loved to spend time there was Alexander III. A separate exhibition in the palace is dedicated to him. The king appreciated family comfort ... drinks
        1. Astra wild
          Astra wild 18 September 2020 20: 57
          +2
          Nikolay, I like Alexander 3 as a person and a leader, and in Nikolay 2, I like his love for his mother.
          Unfortunately for the leader this is not enough.
          Perhaps I will get an extra minus, but I will say: if you forget that Nicholas II was the Tsar, and look at him as Nicholas's man. It was difficult for him: he loved his wife and mother, and the mother-in-law and daughter-in-law got along badly at least 2%.
          I loved my mother-in-law as a second mother. She was my mother since 11 years
          P
          S
          I am smart: I made friends with the wife of my education. She hugs me like a kitten. I hope to make friends with the future wife of my son
          1. Pane Kohanku
            Pane Kohanku 19 September 2020 22: 54
            +1
            Nikolay, Alexander 3 impresses me as a person and a leader

            You see, Vera ... love Alexander III was a strong man-statesman. Can I say personal? hi Behind his broad back, in peacetime, a whole cohort of incompetent managers and generals grew up, who inherited a weak son, as a result of which he wasted all reforms and all wars. And who paid? Yes, that one is the "dark people" .. with your lives ... negative
            We at one time discussed with the highly respected Albert-Krasnodar, and what would happen if hypothetically agreed in 1914 one huge Russia and one small but developed Germany. Yes, we would have blown it clean! They just would have blown it. Because the genetic heroism must be confirmed by the developed economy and industry. And we could oppose the Germans ... only heroism!
            And according to the behavior of the last tsar, from whom a bearded cherub is now molded, one can read the memoirs of the Grand Duke Alexander Mikhailovich (Sandro). Nothing state. request
  • kalibr
    17 September 2020 10: 59
    +3
    Quote: 3x3zsave
    To be honest, it was Nikolai who photographed, and I was standing nearby.

    What he wrote to me, I rewrote. I had no time to find out "who was who" ...
    1. Pane Kohanku
      Pane Kohanku 17 September 2020 11: 01
      +6
      What he wrote to me, I rewrote.

      this he indicated! soldier (and pointing my finger at him!) laughing
      1. kalibr
        17 September 2020 11: 39
        +1
        Quote: Pane Kohanku
        pointing a finger at him

        It's ugly to point with your finger ...
        1. Pane Kohanku
          Pane Kohanku 17 September 2020 11: 40
          +3
          It's ugly to point with your finger ...

          you got away, you got away, Vyacheslav Olegovich, ill-mannered Pane Kokhanka ... repeat Okay, I'll buy him some cognac. drinks
          1. kalibr
            17 September 2020 12: 14
            +4
            I just remembered the movie from my childhood "The Kingdom of Crooked Mirrors", although it was about picking fingers in the nose ...
            1. Astra wild
              Astra wild 17 September 2020 17: 57
              +3
              Quote: kalibr
              I just remembered the movie from my childhood "The Kingdom of Crooked Mirrors", although it was about picking fingers in the nose ...

              Actually, the grammar is correct "in the nose", but that is purely out of harm
              1. kalibr
                18 September 2020 15: 41
                +2
                Quote: Astra wild
                Actually, the grammar is correct "in the nose", but that is purely out of harm

                That's why I wrote it so that someone would notice and correct it. Superfluous comment, you know. This is me, purely out of harm!
                1. Astra wild
                  Astra wild 19 September 2020 06: 49
                  0
                  Are you mean
                  1. Pane Kohanku
                    Pane Kohanku 19 September 2020 22: 39
                    +1
                    Are you mean

                    The harm is me. love He promised Anton cognac, bought rum. wink
        2. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 17 September 2020 12: 16
          +3
          "I'm meeting with him tonight,
          He will get his! Good ones! " (FROM) laughing
          1. Pane Kohanku
            Pane Kohanku 17 September 2020 12: 34
            +3
            He will get his! Good ones!

            That's it, I don't buy cognac. stop lol
            1. 3x3zsave
              3x3zsave 17 September 2020 12: 56
              +5
              And I can't do it, pressure, sir!
  • Kote Pan Kokhanka
    Kote Pan Kokhanka 17 September 2020 07: 14
    11
    Elegant!
    In the Patriotic historiography, the miter was briefly described as "a grenadier's headdress - convenient for throwing hand grenades, due to the lack of fields"! And ... that's all !!!
    Penza Museum of Local Lore Special thanks !!!
    Good day to all !!!
    1. kalibr
      17 September 2020 11: 04
      +6
      Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
      Penza Museum of Local Lore Special thanks !!!

      Yes, they are great. They not only allowed, but did not forget to call me when their deadlines changed, and provided everything necessary for the shooting. It's nice to work with such responsible people.
      1. Astra wild
        Astra wild 17 September 2020 18: 48
        +4
        Vyacheslav Olegovich, I carefully looked at the mitres and the doubt never leaves me that the mitres in the photographs, numbers: 7,8,12,13 are a remake. Believe the woman, the material is not 18th century, but: "whalebone plates, trimmed with cloth, a comforter" there is even a machine line. Unfortunately, I do not know how to attach an image, otherwise I would have posted the line that I do on Janome.
        P.
        S
        I am in no way belittling your work, you are not to blame for giving and photographing, but a remark from harm. Something in the mood so nasty
        1. cost
          cost 18 September 2020 01: 43
          +2
          Vyacheslav Olegovich, I carefully looked at the mitres and the doubt never leaves me that the mitres in the photographs, numbers: 7,8,12,13 are new. Trust a woman

          Vera, Vyacheslav, sorry for God's sake, could not resist smile Don't be offended. You are good drinks

          belay
          1. Astra wild
            Astra wild 19 September 2020 06: 52
            +2
            The film is beautiful, but the book is somewhat different
        2. kalibr
          18 September 2020 15: 39
          +1
          But I have not written anywhere that this is NOT NEW! Museum staff, for example, believe that it is a remake. But in this form, the mitres came to them from the Museum of Artillery in Leningrad. The fabric is of high quality, the braid is chosen very well. However, the original dresses of that time have also survived and no one has remade them, since they are incredibly expensive. No one altered the uniforms from a number of museums. The seamy side of Peter's cocked hat - yes, a remake, there is even the stamp of the printed St. Petersburg, that is, it is the 19th century, but the top itself ... obviously, of that time. Well, no one would alter metal parts ...
  • Civil
    Civil 17 September 2020 07: 33
    +6
    Thanks for a very interesting article with photos.
  • KVU-NSVD
    KVU-NSVD 17 September 2020 08: 54
    +4
    and Frederick II even passed a law according to which, in the event of the death of his father, all property would be transferred to the shortest son!
    Maybe I misunderstood something, but according to the logic of things, Old Fritz, who loves tall soldiers, had to support tall sons in families by his decree.
    1. Icelord
      Icelord 17 September 2020 09: 16
      +5
      No, there is such logic, the small inheritance and he manages, but the big one has the current to go to the army
      1. KVU-NSVD
        KVU-NSVD 17 September 2020 09: 19
        +2
        Quote: Icelord
        No, there is such logic, the small inheritance and he manages, but the big one has the current to go to the army

        Some kind of flawed logic. The bigot left on the farm will breed many little bigots, and the bighead, who went to war, with a high probability, will either die or return as a useless invalid. Although if you think not for the future, but rake out everything that is possible here and now, then yes ..
        1. Icelord
          Icelord 17 September 2020 09: 26
          +4
          After us, even a flood)))
          1. KVU-NSVD
            KVU-NSVD 17 September 2020 09: 29
            +3
            Quote: Icelord
            After us, even a flood)))

            Yes .. there is such a widespread trend in the human worldview
    2. kalibr
      17 September 2020 11: 02
      +3
      Quote: KVU-NSVD
      Old Fritz had by his decree to support tall sons in families.

      He didn't know much about genetics, I'll tell you what! The result of his eugenic experiences was that the Germans in Europe became very short for a long time. Then Napoleon added short stature to the French, and they got to the second place, but they were rescued by deserters from the Russian army. They added, so to speak, tall tadpoles ...
      1. KVU-NSVD
        KVU-NSVD 17 September 2020 11: 21
        +3
        Wars always mow down the best in the physical world. In my opinion, in this aspect, we, too, still cannot recover from the Great Patriotic War ... and the Germans, too. And Napoleon, he, yes, he himself has covered his people for fifteen years ... But right now, Arabs and Negroes are pouring blood into them ...
        1. kalibr
          17 September 2020 11: 22
          +3
          Quote: KVU-NSVD
          Wars always mow down the best in the physical world. In my opinion, in this aspect, we, too, still cannot recover from the Great Patriotic War.

          That's it!
      2. Liam
        Liam 17 September 2020 11: 37
        0
        In the Russian army of that period after the wars of Catherine, Paul and Alexander, the losses were no better, if not worse, than that of the French after Napoleon. The Russian army of 13/14 was gathered with the world on a string
      3. Mihaylov
        Mihaylov 17 September 2020 11: 39
        +3
        Quote: kalibr
        but they were rescued by deserters from the Russian army. They added, so to speak, tall tadpoles ...

        If I am not mistaken, the average height of the Russian army is 1,60 meters, the average height of the French army is 1.65 meters (the era of the Napoleonic wars)
        1. kalibr
          17 September 2020 12: 20
          +4
          The guard was taller ...
          1. Mihaylov
            Mihaylov 17 September 2020 12: 28
            +3
            Quote: kalibr
            The guard was taller ...

            they were taken away from the French almost with a height of 190 cm, or from 180 cm, I don't remember exactly, but this is the average height in the army, the French were taller ...
            1. kalibr
              17 September 2020 12: 57
              +2
              Very likely, I have not read anything therefore the question ...
            2. Icelord
              Icelord 18 September 2020 10: 07
              +3
              178 centimeters minimum height
        2. Astra wild
          Astra wild 19 September 2020 06: 57
          0
          I was told that the height of the Transfiguration was: 173-174 cm. And in general, in the era of Peter 1, the growth of people was less than now. But it is known that Peter1's height was: 203cm
      4. Catfish
        Catfish 17 September 2020 12: 38
        +8
        ... from the book of A.V. Viskovaty.

        Vyacheslav hi , with all due respect, still not "Viskovaty", but Viskovatova, sorry for the clarification, but somehow it hurts the ear. drinks Many thanks for the article, together with Dmitry's comments and photos of Nikolai and Anton - a true fruit of collective creativity. smile good

        Alexander Vasilievich Viskovatov (April 22 [May 4] 1804 - February 27 [March 11] 1858) - Russian military historian; major general.
        1. kalibr
          17 September 2020 12: 57
          +5
          Yes of course. I had to write a lot, so I hurried ...
        2. Astra wild
          Astra wild 17 September 2020 17: 07
          +4
          Konstantin is a "cat", and how could Viskovatov know what the uniforms of the same "Holshtins" or "Semenovites" looked like under Empress Anna Ioanovna?). After all, he personally did not see.
          R.
          S.
          Viskovatov was a good artist: how everything is drawn in detail
          1. Icelord
            Icelord 17 September 2020 17: 22
            +3
            That is precisely why many of his statements are no longer relevant. He was an excellent specialist in the 19th century, but frankly sailed in the 18th
            1. Catfish
              Catfish 17 September 2020 18: 06
              +4
              Wouldn't you consider it hard to specify what exactly Mr. Viskovatov was sailing in? All the more frankly ...
              1. Icelord
                Icelord 17 September 2020 18: 10
                +3
                Unfortunately, in many ways. At the moment, of what is available to all readers, the best books by Oleg Leonov. The details are not indisputable there, but the archives of the 18th century have been studied by him quite thoroughly.
                1. Catfish
                  Catfish 17 September 2020 19: 54
                  +2
                  In general, you have not answered the question. But I do not insist.
                  1. Icelord
                    Icelord 17 September 2020 19: 59
                    +3
                    I gave the source, how can I answer even more exhaustively? Viskovatov has a mistake on a mistake, read Leonov and you will understand everything. Swords instead of broadswords, broadswords instead of swords, confused years of adoption, a bunch of simply forgotten samples. Here's the specifics
                    1. Icelord
                      Icelord 17 September 2020 20: 12
                      +2
                      You can also go to specialized sites such as Hansa, and there they will explain what kind of "specialist" Viskovatov was in the 18th century. To refer to it is such bad manners that it is better to refer to Wikipedia. But the 19th century he knew
          2. Catfish
            Catfish 17 September 2020 18: 05
            +6
            And how Vyacheslav writes about uniforms - museum samples, drawings, descriptions of his contemporaries. And Viskovatov was much closer to that period than Shpakovsky. In addition, all the guards units of the imperial army had their own museums, where relics and weapons and uniforms were carefully kept from the moment the unit was created. During the revolution and civil war, a lot of people died, although some of them were saved and taken out across the cordon.
  • Trilobite Master
    Trilobite Master 17 September 2020 11: 51
    +9
    I love people who are passionate.
    In the process of realizing his hobbies, he opens up, becomes natural, organic, alive and spontaneous. Sincere. Here is the author - it would seem, what is interesting in these hats, well, who cares what they are made of and why exactly. Done and done. Now they do not do it anymore, they passed and forgot. But no. Here is a whalebone, here is a brass plaque, and this is like this, because here this way ... And, damn it, interesting!
    In history, I have always been more interested in events - intrigues, campaigns, battles. Material culture has always been somehow in the background. Let's just say - the decisions of Epaminondas on the battlefield of Leuctra were much more interesting to me than what sandals he wore that day and what straps these sandals were wearing.
    But after talking with Vyacheslav Olegovich and other colleagues on the site, I realized that material culture is not only the most important component of historical science (I have always realized this), but can also be very interesting. When people enthusiastically discuss rivet plaques, attaching great importance to whether they are bronze or brass, inevitably you begin to listen and wonder, is it really bronze or brass? And, by the way, it is not clear, in this buckle there should be a hairpin or a pin? And with what knot the straps of Epaminondas' sandals are tied at Leuctra.
    Ahhhh!
    I was infected! I still haven't decided for myself how Epaminondas' oblique wedge looked from a bird's eye view during the initial formation, but I am thinking about the straps of his sandals!
    laughing wassat
    Thank you, Vyacheslav Olegovich. Good article, interesting. It seems to me that working on such materials gives you real pleasure and this pleasure is passed on to the readers.
    1. kalibr
      17 September 2020 12: 18
      +5
      Quote: Trilobite Master
      It seems to me that working on such materials gives you real pleasure and this pleasure is passed on to the readers.

      You are absolutely right. I was born among old things, I live among them, and when I communicate with them, it is as if I am transported to that time. I regret that you will never read my novel "Three from Ensk", and there the life of 1918 and of that time in general is described so well. Informative ... And it's not even about the adventures of the heroes. There's just an encyclopedia of Russian life
      1. Trilobite Master
        Trilobite Master 17 September 2020 16: 38
        +4
        Vyacheslav Olegovich, if the action of the novel took place that way seven or eight hundred years earlier, I would not only read it, but reread it several times, honestly. smile There is so little good, high-quality fiction about the Russian Middle Ages ...
        And the events of a century ago are too tragic for me, too ambiguous, and, most importantly, too fresh to dive into them. Many have not yet burned out about this, as we can see from some of the comments even on this site. A generation of historians who can sensibly understand this tangle have just gone to school, at best. And everyday life and material culture ... But is it the devil in them, if the era itself has not yet been understood and understood by us, if each of its researcher-scientist or author of works of art still, willy-nilly, turns out to be on one side or another - red or white. Little time has passed, more is needed.
        Therefore, it is the Olgovichs and Monomashichs, the Buxgevden clan, Chingizids, Gediminids, Folkungs and other plantagenets that are of interest to me.
        We have not yet grown up to the last century. smile
      2. Astra wild
        Astra wild 17 September 2020 17: 01
        +3
        Vyacheslav Olegovich, you can’t help but remind about the "Iron Horse".
        Maybe Mikhail "Trilobite" has read or is reading your book now. Or do you keep statistics of readers
        1. kalibr
          17 September 2020 17: 51
          +2
          The reason is clear, Astra! I want good people to read good books ... But I don’t stick to my throat with a knife, right? It's just that our memory is forgetful, both for me, and for others too ... In the end, bow once again - the head will not fall off!
    2. Pane Kohanku
      Pane Kohanku 17 September 2020 12: 26
      +4
      But after talking with Vyacheslav Olegovich and other colleagues on the site, I realized that material culture is not only the most important component of historical science (I have always realized this), but can also be very interesting. When people enthusiastically discuss rivet plaques, attaching great importance to whether they are bronze or brass, inevitably you begin to listen and wonder, is it really bronze or brass? And, by the way, it is not clear, in this buckle there should be a hairpin or a pin? And with what knot the straps of Epaminondas' sandals are tied at Leuctra.

      Details are generally fascinating. These are trifles, but, without knowing them, nothing will work, if only the "swift jack" of Lyapis-Trubetskoy. request
      Before I got to know this hat (left), I had no idea that it had pom-poms on the folds. Why this was done - I don't know ... what
      1. The comment was deleted.
        1. Pane Kohanku
          Pane Kohanku 17 September 2020 12: 32
          +4
          The swift jack is a slightly different lapis

          I do not mean it. I mean that historical knowledge itself grows from the knowledge of little things.
          1. Trilobite Master
            Trilobite Master 17 September 2020 13: 18
            +5
            Quote: Pane Kohanku
            knowledge of the little things actually grows historical knowledge

            I agree.
            "Little things" - that is, scattered historical facts and facts are the breeding ground from which historical knowledge grows. Someone very smart, very curious and very enthusiastic collects as many of these "little things" in his head, systematizes, puts them in order, and then looks and - again! - will summarize. And from this generalization a new, hitherto unknown knowledge will be born, the truth of which this "someone" will prove for the rest of his life. smile
            By the way, the article helped me formulate a hypothesis where did such an ugly and, as it seems, completely impractical thing, like a grenadier mitra come from. This is just an archer's headdress with a visor bent upwards. smile
      2. Icelord
        Icelord 17 September 2020 21: 01
        +1
        These pompons look suspiciously fresh. Not to mention the fact that I have not seen anything about pompons in the literature.
        1. Icelord
          Icelord 17 September 2020 21: 08
          +1
          Probably a sheared plume, but why on the forehead? Instead of a cockade?
        2. Astra wild
          Astra wild 18 September 2020 19: 55
          +1
          I will say more: I have doubts about the preservation of the cloth from which they are made
  • Mihaylov
    Mihaylov 17 September 2020 11: 52
    +5
    By the way: in December 2017. the opening of a new permanent exhibition "Museum of the Russian Guard"
    1. Pane Kohanku
      Pane Kohanku 17 September 2020 12: 31
      +4
      By the way: in December 2017. the opening of a new permanent exhibition "Museum of the Russian Guard"

      At one time, Poltavchenko, in an interview, expressed the idea of ​​opening it in the building of the Stock Exchange - the former TsVMM. When the building, after the move of the Naval Museum, stood useless ... By the way, Sergei, do you know what is there now? drinks
      1. Mihaylov
        Mihaylov 17 September 2020 12: 36
        +5
        Quote: Pane Kohanku
        By the way, Sergei, don't you know what is there now?

        Good afternoon, Nikolai, to be honest, I don’t know what is now in the former CVMM.
        The Museum of the Guards was opened in the General Staff Building on the 3rd or 4th floor, it seems on the 3rd, and on the 4th, the Impressionists were opened, they were all transferred there from the Hermitage and something else was taken from the storerooms, a very rich exposition turned out.
        I was in the Museum of the Guards a few years ago, even before the official opening: they were already allowed to go there, but the exposition was not yet complete, some showcases were in the design stage. I'll have to go there again in winter.
      2. Catfish
        Catfish 17 September 2020 13: 05
        +7
        Hi Nikolay hi , interesting. "Rosgvardia" are taken there on excursions? Although they are somehow sideways? laughing
        1. Pane Kohanku
          Pane Kohanku 17 September 2020 13: 28
          +6
          interesting. "Rosgvardia" are taken there on excursions? Although they are somehow sideways?

          Hello Uncle Kostya! Yes, they have nothing to do with the guard.
          Museums. In Kronstadt there is a destroyer of Project 956. Like a museum too. But it seems that only the military are being taken there. hi
          1. Catfish
            Catfish 17 September 2020 14: 05
            +5
            Is this Project 956 "Sarych", the very one that the Yankees called "Super Destroyer"?
            1. Pane Kohanku
              Pane Kohanku 17 September 2020 14: 23
              +5
              Is this Project 956 "Sarych", the very one that the Yankees called "Super Destroyer"?

              Exactly. One of the two that remained at the Baltic Fleet.
          2. Undecim
            Undecim 17 September 2020 15: 32
            +7
            In Kronstadt there is a destroyer of Project 956. Like a museum too.
            Destroyer "Restless". Gutted to the maximum - power plant, propeller shafts, screws and everything that can be removed. Guided tours are conducted only on the upper deck.
            1. Pane Kohanku
              Pane Kohanku 18 September 2020 10: 31
              +4
              Guided tours are only available on the upper deck.

              I have not seen civilians taken there. There is a checkpoint, and it seems that only the military is being driven.
              1. Undecim
                Undecim 18 September 2020 11: 42
                +3
                Excursions for the military carried out only on the upper deck.
                1. Pane Kohanku
                  Pane Kohanku 18 September 2020 11: 45
                  +3
                  Guided tours for the military are conducted only on the upper deck.

                  Well, okay! drinks
  • Mihaylov
    Mihaylov 17 September 2020 11: 55
    +7
    From the General Staff Building:
    1. kalibr
      17 September 2020 12: 19
      +6
      Well ... I'll try to get there too!
  • Astra wild
    Astra wild 17 September 2020 16: 49
    +4
    Vyacheslav Olegovich, I am grateful to you and your assistants "co-authors": Nikolai "Kokhanka" and Anton. You have done a great job in a short time.
    I hope that such cooperation will continue in the future. I have a "selfish" interest: Vyacheslav Olegovich will spend less time on photography and write more
    1. kalibr
      17 September 2020 17: 56
      +3
      Quote: Astra wild
      Vyacheslav Olegovich will spend less time on photography and write more

      Well, do not deprive me of this pleasure. Although ... now my daughter is resting in Turkey. Sent a photo from the museum. I have not seen this before. Didn't even know what it was. I had to climb both Quebec and the site of the University in Ankara. But I found out, and now the article is already ready and is hanging on moderation. I was personally very interested in looking for an explanation for them.
  • Icelord
    Icelord 17 September 2020 17: 55
    +4
    It's a shame that I don't know how to send photos from my phone. Is it possible?
    1. Undecim
      Undecim 17 September 2020 18: 28
      +5
      In the same way as from a tablet.
      1. Icelord
        Icelord 17 September 2020 18: 30
        +3
        Uh. I don't know how from a tablet either. Alas)))
        1. Icelord
          Icelord 17 September 2020 18: 31
          +4
          Current from the computer, but it is not available yet
          1. Undecim
            Undecim 17 September 2020 18: 40
            +5
            But the process isn't much different. In the same way, choose "insert", just not with the mouse, but with your finger.
            1. Icelord
              Icelord 17 September 2020 18: 42
              +4
              Even if the fingers are not the same, or the photo is not right))). Thank you. I will try
              1. Undecim
                Undecim 17 September 2020 19: 16
                +3
                Photo must be in jpeg format
                1. Lexus
                  Lexus 18 September 2020 01: 57
                  +3
                  My regards! hi VO has become more democratic - it accepts jpg, png and gif (albeit only in a static form). I have not experimented with other formats yet.
                  1. Undecim
                    Undecim 18 September 2020 02: 17
                    +3
                    I meant raster graphics. This is how it was originally. jpg and jpeg, png and gif are all bitmap graphics. I just didn't list all the formats.
                    1. Lexus
                      Lexus 18 September 2020 02: 21
                      +3
                      The last two I at one time completely refused to boot.
            2. Icelord
              Icelord 17 September 2020 18: 46
              +3
              Incidentally. Viktor Nikolaevich, how do you feel about the research of Oleg Leonov
              1. Undecim
                Undecim 17 September 2020 19: 16
                +3
                Researching what?
                1. Icelord
                  Icelord 17 September 2020 19: 18
                  +2
                  Well, in my opinion, the weapons and uniforms of the Russian army of the 18th century.
                  1. Undecim
                    Undecim 17 September 2020 19: 21
                    +3
                    Not familiar with such studies.
                    1. Icelord
                      Icelord 17 September 2020 19: 24
                      +3
                      Uh ... is it ironic? Or have you really not read it? In my opinion, serious archival work
                      1. Undecim
                        Undecim 17 September 2020 19: 31
                        +3
                        Do not read. True.
                      2. Icelord
                        Icelord 17 September 2020 19: 35
                        +2
                        Read, really a man dug archives. You will not regret
                      3. Undecim
                        Undecim 17 September 2020 20: 17
                        +1
                        And what to read then? Give the link.
                      4. Icelord
                        Icelord 17 September 2020 20: 22
                        +3
                        https://www.livelib.ru/author/456164/top-oleg-leonov
                        Alas, I found only paid ones, maybe you can find by the name of the books and for free
                      5. Icelord
                        Icelord 17 September 2020 20: 25
                        +3
                        I bought paper
                    2. Icelord
                      Icelord 17 September 2020 20: 38
                      +3
                      The latest book "combat weapons of the Russian army", if you find it highly recommend
                    3. Icelord
                      Icelord 17 September 2020 20: 50
                      +3
                      I apologize. Combat edged weapons of the Russian army.
                    4. Undecim
                      Undecim 17 September 2020 23: 04
                      +2
                      Thanks, I will take a look. Although I'm not a fan of cold steel.
                    5. Icelord
                      Icelord 18 September 2020 02: 48
                      +3
                      I am more than pleased to recommend you something. It's just that it's difficult with your erudition)))
        2. kalibr
          17 September 2020 21: 47
          +2
          "This one has not read the novel either! Read it by all means, Sharman!"
  • kalibr
    17 September 2020 21: 45
    +1
    It is possible and very good!
    1. Icelord
      Icelord 18 September 2020 09: 22
      +2
      Vyacheslav Olegovich, when will there be an article about an amazing revolver? I can't kyusha for a week)))
      1. kalibr
        18 September 2020 09: 24
        +1
        Dear Igor! She's in the plan. Now I am writing material about the carbines of the Civil War in the United States, Immediately after him about him. Then a week for the release of old materials ... I can't speed it up. Plan is a plan
        1. Icelord
          Icelord 18 September 2020 09: 28
          +2
          Well, yes, I understand. Sad but understandable. Thank you anyway
          1. kalibr
            18 September 2020 15: 29
            +1
            Igor! I don't want to offend you. Now I was sitting collecting material on it, found another photo, some more interesting samples. There will be several interesting models for you at once. I promise.
            1. Icelord
              Icelord 18 September 2020 16: 18
              +2
              Thank you, Vyacheslav Olegovich. It will be great
              1. kalibr
                18 September 2020 16: 37
                +2
                Found patent drawings for Colt revolvers and their improvements, and it looks really interesting. Because there will be few signs to write about this revolver alone! Now I posted an article about carbines. "Your" will follow her ...
              2. kalibr
                18 September 2020 18: 45
                +2
                All Igor, the material is ready, now I'm posting it for moderation ...
                1. Icelord
                  Icelord 18 September 2020 18: 50
                  +2
                  Thank. I think I'm not the only one who is very happy about it
        2. Astra wild
          Astra wild 18 September 2020 20: 01
          0
          Vyacheslav Olegovich, every day I look forward to your and Valery's publications.
          1. kalibr
            18 September 2020 21: 22
            0
            That's good to hear. This is a small miracle. Do you remember that Green, not our local commune, but a writer, spoke in miracles in "Scarlet Sails". "If a person's soul is waiting for a miracle, give him this miracle. You and him will have a new soul!" I try to do that. And yes, I agree with him. I just wrote some interesting material for Igor and he will be pleased to read it. Somewhere where I will never see her even. Isn't it a miracle?
            1. Astra wild
              Astra wild 20 September 2020 17: 34
              +1
              Vyacheslav Olegovich, with all due respect, but the "commie" does not adorn you.
              R.
              S
              I read "Scarlet Sails" in my youth and do not remember such a detail
              1. kalibr
                20 September 2020 17: 35
                0
                There is such a detail. And watch the movie ...
            2. Phil77
              Phil77 20 September 2020 17: 49
              0
              Quote: kalibr
              local communica

              Good evening to you Vyacheslav Olegovich! To be honest, this phrase of yours also * cut me *. Probably you can find another epithet, eh? Well, rightly so, like the home-grown * demo * from the 90s! hi negative
              1. kalibr
                20 September 2020 17: 54
                0
                Normal phrase, Sergei. From the 90s. I haven't forgotten, here's another ... And why, by the way, should I change in this, what's the point? In the Second Epistle to Corinthians, it says: "For what agreement can there be between Christ and the devil? And what does a believer have to do with an unbeliever? ... Or what agreement does Christ have with Belial, or what is the complicity of a believer with an unbeliever?" So all "normalek", my dear comrades in site!
                1. Phil77
                  Phil77 20 September 2020 18: 03
                  0
                  Quote: kalibr
                  Normal phrase,

                  Yes, there is nothing normal in it. From the same series as * journalist *, * hard worker *, * lousy intellectual * and so on. Neglect for the opponent? Yes, you feel, but why do you need it? You are a respected author, writer. Why?
                  1. kalibr
                    20 September 2020 18: 19
                    +1
                    Quote: Phil77
                    What for?

                    Because sometimes I just WANT. That's all I want ... How to scratch your nose with your finger, although it is considered uncivilized ... Although, yes, we cannot but agree with what you wrote. What for? And who knows ... People are such strange creatures. And me too...
                    1. Phil77
                      Phil77 20 September 2020 18: 24
                      +1
                      Quote: kalibr
                      What for? Who knows...

                      And here I agree with you! Oh, how I agree.
                      Quote: kalibr
                      just WANT

                      What speaks in your favor! You are young at heart, which is wonderful! Now, if no desires arise, this is already .... sad!
          2. kalibr
            20 September 2020 18: 21
            +1
            Astra wild (Astra wild)
            Especially for you, I wrote an article about Japanese kimonos. Just ... Already on moderation. Wait!
  • Astra wild
    Astra wild 17 September 2020 20: 10
    +4
    [quote = Icelord] Uh. I don't know how from a tablet either. Alas))) [/ quote
    And for me "Terra incognito"
    1. Icelord
      Icelord 17 September 2020 20: 27
      +2
      Opensource projects Difficult isn't it? )))
  • Astra wild
    Astra wild 17 September 2020 20: 50
    +2
    Quote: Sea Cat
    Hi Nikolay hi , interesting. "Rosgvardia" are taken there on excursions? Although they are somehow sideways? laughing

    The name. So really sideways.
  • ee2100
    ee2100 17 September 2020 21: 52
    -1
    The author is gradually moving into the rank of "fashion historians", albeit military ones! am
    1. Astra wild
      Astra wild 18 September 2020 20: 05
      +2
      If you don't like it, you can not read it. I think that Vyacheslav Olegovich will not even notice. So you will not upset him
  • saygon66
    saygon66 18 September 2020 01: 06
    +2
    - Oh, how the image of the "grenada" - the traditional emblem of the infantry is made!
    - Not like the modern "bun on skewers" ...
    1. Icelord
      Icelord 18 September 2020 02: 28
      +4
      Well, if in your opinion the history of military uniforms is fashion, what do you consider history?
    2. Icelord
      Icelord 18 September 2020 09: 16
      +4
      Grenada is the guard)))
      1. Undecim
        Undecim 18 September 2020 11: 52
        +2
        Grenada is the guard)))
        Grenada is an island.
        In addition, grenada is two cities in the United States and a suburb of Wellington, as well as a famous horse. But not the guard.
        1. Icelord
          Icelord 18 September 2020 11: 59
          +1
          Well, the island is the same, and the song and the sign of the guard))). With respect, Igor
          1. Undecim
            Undecim 18 September 2020 12: 01
            +1
            sign of the guard
            What guard?
            1. Icelord
              Icelord 18 September 2020 12: 05
              +1
              Well French for example
              1. Undecim
                Undecim 18 September 2020 12: 18
                +3
                With regard to France, "Grenade" is not the guard, but the gendarmerie.
                1. Icelord
                  Icelord 18 September 2020 12: 20
                  +2
                  Napoleon has a guard, now I honestly don't know
                  1. Undecim
                    Undecim 18 September 2020 13: 08
                    +3
                    Yes, 1er et 2ème Grenadiers de la Vieille Garde Impériale had a pomegranate on the hat. But they are grenadiers. This is not a sign of belonging to the guard.
                    1. Icelord
                      Icelord 18 September 2020 13: 30
                      +1
                      Well, I remember so much, I will not argue, I will dig, that I will dig up and write
                      1. Icelord
                        Icelord 18 September 2020 14: 16
                        +2
                        There was still a grenade, not only for foot and mounted grenadiers, all the guards had a grenade mark (Alla Begunova) on the officers' weapons and the officer's guards had two crossed cannons in a wreath and a grenade above them
                2. Astra wild
                  Astra wild 18 September 2020 20: 12
                  +1
                  Viktor Nikolaevich, What do the keys mean: will we open any locks?
                  1. Pane Kohanku
                    Pane Kohanku 19 September 2020 22: 57
                    +1
                    Viktor Nikolaevich, What do the keys mean: will we open any locks?

                    Shhhh! wink Only to anyone, Vera! stop He ... he knows the secret of the huge enema! fellow Victor Nikolaevich, don't be offended! I love you with a pure love of knowledge! drinks
                    1. Phil77
                      Phil77 20 September 2020 16: 28
                      +1
                      Quote: Pane Kohanku
                      a huge enema!

                      Ha, ha, ha! O great and mighty Russian language !!!!! Lock-constipation.
                      Entertainer you, dear Nikolai! wink wink wink
                      1. Pane Kohanku
                        Pane Kohanku 20 September 2020 23: 09
                        +2
                        Entertainer you

                        Sergey, back in 2017 I assigned this epithet to Viktor Nikolayevich himself! drinks
                      2. Phil77
                        Phil77 21 September 2020 06: 50
                        +1
                        Quote: Pane Kohanku
                        Viktor Nikolaevich himself!

                        Come on! No. I would never have thought of it! Well, not once. In my opinion, academically dry, sir! No? request
  • Phil77
    Phil77 20 September 2020 17: 41
    +1
    [left] [/ left]
    Quote: Astra wild
    "Ivan Brovkin on Tsilin".

    In total, during the USSR ... 7250 films were shot. So, this film holds the 58th place in distribution. Does this mean something?