Military Review

Why the Germans were afraid of the Il-2 pilots: from the memoirs of a veteran

66
Why the Germans were afraid of the Il-2 pilots: from the memoirs of a veteran

Opening of the monument to the Il-2 attack aircraft



The more time has passed since the end of the Great Patriotic War, the more the number of pseudo-historical myths about that great war grows. A whole movement of pseudo-historians has managed to form, who openly extol the German troops over the Red Army, inventing more and more justifications for the defeat of the Nazis. The notorious statements about "the main contribution to the Soviet victory of the cold weather of 1941-1942" are now supplemented by ridiculous statements about the "humanity of the German commanders" who, it turns out, "retreating, tried to save more human lives."

These slogans are very similar to those that at one time were actively used by the department of Joseph Goebbels.

The film on the Sky Artist channel tells about the myths that are associated with Soviet pilots. For example, the myth about the pilots of the Soviet Il-2 attack aircraft is considered.

Debunking myths was often helped by personal meetings of those who had to confront each other during the war.

There are recollections of the incident with the captured Germans on the territory of Poland in the spring of 1945, who, seeing the disguised Il-2 near the road, threw themselves to the ground in fear and began to ask not to be shot. Stormtrooper pilot, Hero of the Soviet Union Grigory Ryabushko says:

We come closer to the Germans, and I see horror on their faces. I've seen a lot, but I've never seen such horror on a human face again.

It turned out that the German soldiers perceived the pilots of the Soviet attack aircraft as "the most natural animals from which there is no escape."
Details of why the Germans were so afraid of the Il-2 pilots in the video:

Photos used:
Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation
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  1. Lipchanin
    Lipchanin 12 September 2020 10: 14 New
    +6
    A whole movement of pseudo-historians has managed to form, which openly extol German troops over the Red Army,

    Ears cut off
    1. garri-lin
      garri-lin 12 September 2020 10: 20 New
      +6
      Well, why cut. At TAP, to confess with the whole group beyond the Urals. Plant taiga.
      1. Lipchanin
        Lipchanin 12 September 2020 10: 22 New
        +4
        Quote: garri-lin
        Plant taiga

        Without ears they will put
        1. Uncle lee
          Uncle lee 12 September 2020 11: 06 New
          +6
          Quote: Lipchanin
          No ears

          But they will not freeze!
          1. Lipchanin
            Lipchanin 12 September 2020 11: 13 New
            -2
            Quote: Uncle Lee
            But they will not freeze!

            And they won't go to sick leave
    2. Insurgent
      Insurgent 12 September 2020 10: 21 New
      +7
      Why the Germans were afraid of the Il-2 pilots: from the memoirs of a veteran

      How not to be afraid of such people?

      Ivan Grigorievich Drachenko (November 15, 1922 - November 16, 1994) - attack pilot, Hero of the Soviet Union, Full Cavalier of the Order of Glory (one of 4 full holders of the Order of Glory, awarded the title "Hero of the Soviet Union"). He continued to fight after losing one eye.

      Born on November 15, 1922 in the village of Velikaya Sevastyanovka, now the Khristinovsky district of the Cherkasy region, in a peasant family. Ukrainian. Member of the CPSU since 1944. He graduated from high school and the Leningrad flying club. In 1941 he was drafted into the Red Army. In the summer of 1943, he graduated from the Tambov Military Aviation Pilot School and was sent to the front as an attack pilot. He fought at the Kursk Bulge.

      On August 14, 1943, in the Kharkov region, saving the regiment commander, an enemy fighter rammed on the Il-2. During the ram he was seriously wounded, was taken prisoner in an unconscious state. In a POW camp, a Soviet doctor performed a complex operation on him, but he could not save his right eye... In September 1943, Drachenko escaped from captivity. After treatment in a Moscow hospital in March 1944, he returned to flying. As part of the 140th Guards Assault Aviation Regiment (8th Guards Assault Aviation Division, 1st Guards Assault Aviation Corps, 5th Air Army) he fought until the end of the war.

      During the war years, he made an 151 sortie, in 24 air battles he shot down 5 enemy planes, destroyed 9 at airfields, destroyed the 4 bridge, destroyed a lot of enemy equipment and manpower.

      By the decree of the Presidium of the Supreme Soviet of the USSR dated October 26, 1944, Ivan Grigorievich Drachenko was awarded the title of Hero of the Soviet Union with the Order of Lenin and the Gold Star medal.


      In a prisoner of war camp, a Soviet doctor performed a complex operation on him, but he could not save his right eye.


      In the pilot's memoir book, I read about another interpretation of this event, according to which the Nazis deliberately removed his eyes in the prisoner of war camp, knowing that an attack pilot with such an injury would no longer be able to fly
      1. Cyril732017
        Cyril732017 14 September 2020 12: 53 New
        +1
        The most interesting thing is that many did not realize for a long time that he had one eye, until he accidentally turned it over in his eye socket ... they arranged an exam on piloting, to the question of what comments there are for the flight, corps commander Ryazanov answered, they say, what comments are all used so flew
    3. Revolver
      Revolver 14 September 2020 02: 17 New
      +2
      Quote: Lipchanin
      Ears cut off

      Yes, not ears, but what they are going to transfer genes to posterity.
  2. Avior
    Avior 12 September 2020 10: 24 New
    +5
    Still the Germans would not be scared
    They were suddenly taken out of the column of prisoners and taken aside.
  3. Lionnvrsk
    Lionnvrsk 12 September 2020 10: 31 New
    0
    Photos used: Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation

    This "Schwarz Tod" in Novoross stands on Malaya Zemlya.
    1. dauria
      dauria 12 September 2020 20: 56 New
      -1
      This "Schwarz Tod" in Novoross stands,


      Another myth. Its German name is "fleischer" (butcher). "Cement bomber" was also mentioned, but unreliable. We had Major General Nedbailo, more than 200 sorties, twice a Hero. And that's what I remember from his stories, men. The requirements for the level of tactical training, especially in the group, were such that a stupid person could not live there for a long time. By the middle of the war, both the Germans and ours had invented so many tricks, and without knowledge they would immediately be driven into the coffin.
  4. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
    Andrei from Chelyabinsk 12 September 2020 10: 36 New
    +2
    How not to be afraid? Firstly, it is difficult to shoot down an IL-2, and secondly, even if you shoot it down, an angry pilot will get out of it and hang such lullies ...
    1. apro
      apro 12 September 2020 11: 06 New
      0
      The main losses of the Il-2 from anti-aircraft fire. The Germans put armor-piercing shells in the tape ... they also studied ...
    2. mvg
      mvg 12 September 2020 17: 14 New
      -4
      Firstly, it is difficult to shoot down the Il-2.

      Slow, not armed with defensive weapons, single-engine (water-cooled) hulking aircraft. Average number of departures <4. Very hard. Almost impossible.
      Just think SuperFrtress, 4 engines, 12 firing points, flight altitude 9-10 thousand meters, crew of 11-17 people. In the ass 4x20 mm, with an automatic lead. Where to her, dear. Combat load 600 kg and 3-4 tons.
      1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
        Andrei from Chelyabinsk 12 September 2020 20: 04 New
        +8
        Honestly, this one ... I don't even know how to speak softer, even reluctant to answer. Where is the stormtrooper and where is the stratobomber. fool
        Quote: mvg
        Slow, defensively armed,

        "Forgot" to mention - at the beginning of the Second World War, before the appearance of a two-seat modification. And the single rooms were being altered .. What, will you pretend you don't know?
        1. mvg
          mvg 12 September 2020 20: 33 New
          -14
          What, will you pretend you don't know?

          I won't. And what changed the appearance of the shooter from 7,62? Against 2x20 + 2x7,92 (13)?
          There was no concept of "stratobomber", there was just a bomber. And the men on Il'ah, at the beginning of the war, were simply death row. I read one book, analyzed the names of the pilots and aircraft numbers ... changed completely, from chapter to chapter. 40K + aircraft built ... estimate how many were killed.
          Don't you think that the armor of the "armored capsule saved from the fire for" or from the fire of the Me-109?
          PS: Just my opinion, don't consider it disgusting: the Luftwaffe was knocked out on the Western Front, and since 1943 the attack aircraft acted like the Germans in 1941. They could not hold back the tanks and the offensive in 41-42, only at the cost of Gastello. Extremely bad plane. The largest% of mortality among the crew. The constructor is to be shot.
          1. fighter angel
            fighter angel 12 September 2020 21: 39 New
            12
            The stupid and stupid maxima got out on the VO again to leave the IL-2 like a shit?
            This is not the first time that Maksimka is trying to pour shit on our attack aircraft. The last time he was "nailed", it is good that only in verbal form, but if in physical form, then he would be disabled.
            Yes, he is actually disabled. On his whole head, or whatever he has, what he eats in.
            These are the maxims read in the 90s, toliver-constables, "blond pi ... s of the Reich", "poodles on pieces", "fought against Stalin's falcons", and then these maxims saw enough Hollywood b / busters about World War II and here we are with you, what we have.
            Unhappy, poor, narrow-minded, who is used to considering himself and his country, his history, flawed and worse than everyone else. Alas, the propagandists of Goebbels' damn monkey, the propagandists of the Cold War, achieved their goal, Solzhenitsky's false, paid nonsense, and in the 90s they also added our "fighters for the war", who were able to instill in the maxims that the USSR, "to fight inadequate technical equipment, didn’t bother".
            But the saddest thing is that such maxims can no longer be altered - they even piss in the eyes - all the dew of God. Although in relation to this maxim, the saying is more suitable: "You should not throw beads in front of the PIG." That is why, maxim, no one will refute your lying delirium, and no one will argue with you, sick one. Stay in the role of the crazy fool, it probably suits you.
            Damn you, carry on what you want.
            And the IL-2 IS OUR PRIDE, OUR MEMORY, THE BEST ATTACK AIRCRAFT OF THE BATTLE FIELD OF THE SECOND WORLD WAR!
            1. mvg
              mvg 12 September 2020 21: 53 New
              -17
              and if in the physical it would be a maximum disabled person.

              You can try, Freak. Allesha.
              I understand that you are in trouble with your intellect, you cannot play chess either. I can punish in boxing or sambo. Mlyn, as with it..mi boring.
              PS: Can I see screenshots where they "nailed"? At the same time, there are facts that the IL-2 is the pride of the nation ... Here you ...
              And yes, do not mess with people to whom you are inferior in intelligence, financial position, fortunately, on "you", at least ugly. Scarecrow.
            2. mvg
              mvg 12 September 2020 22: 15 New
              -11
              I can't even imagine where they get such it..ot. To generally print on the keyboard? Have you ever won a school Olympiad? Were the first? Played for the institute? Were you a captain? You have your own business (ha ha ha). Beautiful wife? Maybe there are children? Have you built a house? Have you bought an apartment? Do you know how to drive a car? What speed
              PS: You are a Scarecrow, illiterate, ass-sucker ... I don't even ask where it tastes better ...
              1. fighter angel
                fighter angel 13 September 2020 17: 46 New
                +3
                Maksimka, his own type of intellect, or rather, ITS COMPLETE ABSENCE YOU SHOW FULLY. You can only "punish" with your tongue. And so your PUNISHMENT HAS NOT GENERATED YET! As for your "financial position", I wanted to spit on him. You all your this very "financial position" with a tube in the anus hammer yourself.
                It is a lot of honor to be accountable to you, but I am satisfied with my life. Was not only the captain (ha ha ha), the manager of a medium business, (ha ha ha), The wife is 8 years younger, beautiful, and the second, (ha ha ha), two children, his own apartment ( ha-ha-ha), the house was built outside the city, (ha-ha-ha), I change the car every 3-4 years - HA-HA-HA !!!
                You idiot would not spread your preferences in non-traditional sexual relations here. This audience is not tolerant. Normal men will not understand, they will consider you an LGBT activist.
                You should have moved somewhere far away from here, good luck. Go to the shrink - you have unhealthy statements and criteria, they give out in you a notorious, envious, arrogant, bad individual.
            3. kulinar
              kulinar 12 September 2020 22: 44 New
              +1
              Quote: fighter angel
              The stupid and stupid maxima got out on the VO again to leave the IL-2 like a shit?
              This is not the first time that Maksimka is trying to pour shit on our attack aircraft. The last time he was "nailed", it is good that only in verbal form, but if in physical form, then he would be disabled.
              Yes, he is actually disabled. On his whole head, or whatever he has, what he eats in.
              These are the maxims read in the 90s, toliver-constables, "blond pi ... s of the Reich", "poodles on pieces", "fought against Stalin's falcons", and then these maxims saw enough Hollywood b / busters about World War II and here we are with you, what we have.
              Unhappy, poor, narrow-minded, who is used to considering himself and his country, his history, flawed and worse than everyone else. Alas, the propagandists of Goebbels' damn monkey, the propagandists of the Cold War, achieved their goal, Solzhenitsky's false, paid nonsense, and in the 90s they also added our "fighters for the war", who were able to instill in the maxims that the USSR, "to fight inadequate technical equipment, didn’t bother".
              But the saddest thing is that such maxims can no longer be altered - they even piss in the eyes - all the dew of God. Although in relation to this maxim, the saying is more suitable: "You should not throw beads in front of the PIG." That is why, maxim, no one will refute your lying delirium, and no one will argue with you, sick one. Stay in the role of the crazy fool, it probably suits you.
              Damn you, carry on what you want.
              And the IL-2 IS OUR PRIDE, OUR MEMORY, THE BEST ATTACK AIRCRAFT OF THE BATTLE FIELD OF THE SECOND WORLD WAR!

              But essentially have something to say?
              The IL-2 was completely defenseless against fighter attacks. Single option.
              It got to the point that they inserted a stick, painted black, behind the cabin. Like a machine gun.
              Crushing power on the ground and an ideal target for Luftwaffe fighters.
              It was much later that they began to fly under the cover of their fighter aircraft.
              I recommend watching. Very interesting facts. And about the IL-2 too.
              "Red Stars / Red Stars (Ukraine, 24 episodes of ~ 53 minutes) 1997"
              Then the potheads did not wander around Kiev.
            4. Train
              Train 13 September 2020 11: 46 New
              -2
              IL 2 by the beginning or mid-42 of the year already did not suit the VVS command so much that they literally demanded! Introduction to production of BSh SU6. The clumsy and slow IL with the inability to enter from a combat turn to re-attack made it extremely vulnerable, 400 kg of load did not suit anyone. For all that, it was not possible to "deduce" the heights and angles of attack with a maximum result at least in terms of accuracy. sights for bombing, excluding the pins on the hood and notches on the glass. The same Yu87D of 1943 took on board up to 1300 kg of bombs. And Ilyushin's "games" with options with the M40 engine, an attack aircraft fighter as an option could easily bring it under execution.
              1. Pavel57
                Pavel57 13 September 2020 14: 02 New
                +1
                IL-2 is ambiguous. The symbol of Victory is yes. And efficiency is controversial given the volume of output and, accordingly, losses.
          2. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
            Andrei from Chelyabinsk 12 September 2020 23: 00 New
            +5
            Quote: mvg
            I won't. And what changed the appearance of the shooter from 7,62

            Maxim, study the materiel, you will find out.
            Quote: mvg
            There was no concept of "stratobomber", there was just a bomber.

            Il-2 - bomber? That four-engine bombers were a completely separate direction in aviation - don't you know? Have you heard about long-range aviation? Coy lyad Do you compare him with an attack aircraft? Perhaps the B-17 performed assault functions in the US Air Force? wassat
            Quote: mvg
            I read one book

            This is not enough
            Quote: mvg
            40K + aircraft built ... estimate how many were killed.

            36K. Irrevocable combat - less than 12K.
            Quote: mvg
            Don't you think that the armor of the "armored capsule saved from the fire for" or from the fire of the Me-109?

            Didn't you know? I sympathize. This protection was not absolute, but on the whole it made it much more difficult to defeat, not to mention the conventional machine guns and rifle, from which they landed on low-flying ones.
            1. mvg
              mvg 13 September 2020 11: 11 New
              -6
              Didn't you know? I sympathize

              Andrew, tie it up. You draw beautifully about ships. No need for aviation. I can and numbers, you will be sad.
              Il is the most shot down plane. Suicide pilots. Worse than penal battalion. This is 40 K trained people to send to death.
              It would be better to have made a thousand B-17/29.
              About Long-Range Aviation ... at the end of the War, we had as many as 39 aircraft, mostly restored Yankees. Wow, we would have fought. Kick asses.
              1. mat-vey
                mat-vey 13 September 2020 14: 18 New
                +3
                Quote: mvg
                Suicide pilots.

                My great-uncle did not have an easy choice - either I go to the IL-2 to study, or you command the peoples of Asia at the construction site ... He then spoke IL-2 not so scary ...
              2. Stas157
                Stas157 13 September 2020 14: 39 New
                +7
                Quote: mvg
                Il is the most shot down plane.

                Nevertheless, it was the most needed! It was not for nothing that Comrade Stalin built so many of them that the Il-2 became the most massive in the history of aviation.

                Don't look one-sided. Any medal has two sides. So it is here. For the pilot, the Il-2 was perhaps not the safest, however, like any other attack aircraft. But for the infantry, it was the best means of support. The IL-2 could continuously hang over the battlefield (in a fiery carousel), thereby immediately changing the balance of power in our favor. How many lives of soldiers on the ground the stormtrooper saved! Hero attack aircraft did not give their lives in vain.
              3. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                Andrei from Chelyabinsk 13 September 2020 16: 15 New
                +6
                Quote: mvg
                I can and numbers, you will be sad.

                You can not. From the very first steps (40K + IL-2) you could not figure it out.
                Quote: mvg
                Il is the most shot down plane. Suicide pilots. Worse than penal battalion. This is 40 K trained people to send to death.

                Well, let's start simple. You declare that 40K people were sent to their death on IL-2. We take V.I. Alekseenko, read
                On the eve of the war, on 22.06.1941/30184/27600, there were 3994 pilots. The combat losses of pilots during the war - 31594 people and not combat - 44093, a total of XNUMX people. Pilots trained during the war - XNUMX people.
                The combat losses of the pilots include: fighters - 11874, attack aircraft - 7837, bombers - 6613, reconnaissance aircraft - 587 and auxiliary aviation - 689 people.

                I'm waiting for a refutation
                Quote: mvg
                It would be better to have made a thousand B-17/29.

                For whom is it better? For the Germans?
                Maxim, I'm afraid you absolutely do not understand what you are undertaking to write about. You persist in comparing aircraft of completely different purposes, which no one has ever (including the United States itself) used one instead of the other.
                1. mvg
                  mvg 13 September 2020 17: 54 New
                  -3
                  I'm waiting for a refutation

                  Quote
                  In total, 34943 Il-2 and 1211 Il-2U attack aircraft were produced during the war years.
                  Quote
                  As of May 10, 1945, the air armies of the fronts numbered 3075 Il-2 and Il-2U attack aircraft
                  Total
                  34K stormtroopers somewhere? This is approximately 94%. Looking at the early years, the statistics are even worse.
                  Source
                  "Aviation and cosmonautics 2001. Attack aircraft" IL-2 "/ V. I. Perov, O. V. Rastrenin /
                  Quote
                  "The Soviet Il-2 attack aircraft was inferior to the German Ju-87 in ceiling height - 1,5 times, in flight range - 4 times, in bomb load - 3 times, surpassing in cannon and machine gun armament by only 1 machine gun. The renowned Il-2 was a cheap, simple and bad machine. It became an aircraft for “suicide bombers.” The average survivability of this aircraft, as shown by the practice of its use, is only 5 sorties. "
                  Yes, comparing an attack aircraft and a dive bomber is not good, but both aircraft did about the same thing. At the same time, the "bastard" is much more accurate.
                  1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                    Andrei from Chelyabinsk 14 September 2020 07: 46 New
                    +1
                    Quote: mvg
                    34K stormtroopers somewhere?

                    laughing good
                    Maxim ... Seriously? :))))) But what about the quote from the book that you presented with the link below?
                    The combat losses of attack aircraft for all the years of the war amounted to 10759 spacecraft Air Force planes (28,9% of the total number of aircraft lost in the war) and 807 Ilov lost by the Air Force Navy.

                    That is, where it is written that the armor of the IL-s did not hold anti-aircraft fire, do you believe, but where the combat losses are written - no? :))))
                    Okay, you asked about the 34K stormtroopers. We count
                    36K (roughly) - produced. At the end of the war, 3,6K remained in the front-line units and at least 1,2K - in parts of the internal military districts, a total of 4,8K. Approximately 1K was written off due to complete physical depreciation. Total 5,8K.
                    Accordingly, you need to find something in the area of ​​30,2K aircraft. Are looking for.
                    11,5K - combat losses
                    11 K - non-combat losses
                    22,5K has already been found. The remaining 7.7 K are aircraft sent for factory repair (they passed the percentage of losses) These aircraft were disassembled for parts that were used in production or scrapped
                    Quote: mvg
                    The average survivability of this vehicle, as shown by the practice of its use, is only 5 sorties.

                    you write with a link to
                    Quote: mvg
                    "Aviation and cosmonautics 2001. Attack aircraft" IL-2 "/ V. I. Perov, O. V. Rastrenin /

                    Too lazy to look for this very moment, I will simply refer to THIS excerpt from the book "IL-2 attack aircraft" by a strange coincidence written by V.I. Perov, O.V. Rastrenin. Which you linked to in the comment below
                    The average number of Il-2 sorties per one combat loss during the war years was 53,5 sorties.

                    So I have a question. From what specific operation, from what context did you rip out 5 sorties to substantiate your point of view? And the second question - do you generally read the sources you cite? Or so, they took a suitable number and go ahead?
                    1. mvg
                      mvg 15 September 2020 12: 40 New
                      -2
                      From what specific operation, from what context did you rip 5 combat missions

                      Cited a source.
                      Andrey, I'm friends with numbers. I read carefully, and about 28% of losses from the total number, and about 11K shot down, or rather lost pilots ...
                      What is 11K non-combat losses? What is it like?
                      What is the wear in 5-10 sorties?
                      By the way, there are 5-7 shooters for each pilot. were not sitting in an armored capsule, where to count them?
                      53 aircraft sorties, this is after 43 years, with fighter cover.
                      PS: Many numbers cannot be trusted. No breakdown by year. 41-43 is one thing, 44-45 is another.
                      According to your own words. 11,5 + 11 + 7,7 = 30. Losses.
                      I believe 36 facts have been produced, 4,2 left. The height of the attack is 100-200 m. No parachute will save. There is nowhere more eloquent.
                      At the same time, 44-45 years, the "Syria" regime, practically.
                      PPPS: Well, about the armor. Protection against small arms, in the same Perov there is data on anti-aircraft small-caliber artillery. The rifle bullet pierced. Moreover, from 100-150 m.
                      // Always read the source before converting the numbers // First the numbers from memory, fragmentary data. If there is a dialogue, I climb into the source.
              4. Mikhail Tynda
                Mikhail Tynda 15 September 2020 06: 22 New
                +1
                Don't confuse the sun with a reflection, but x ... p with a tram handle. IL 2 aircraft directly on the battlefield, B17 heavy bomber. What was the end of the use of heavy bombers as close ones and for work on the leading edge in 41m? Yes IL 2 was not perfect, but the armor protection undoubtedly gave certain advantages (ask the Zero pilots). Each aircraft is good for the application for which it is designed. Let's continue. The production factor. The design, in the context of the massive movement of enterprises to the east, the lack of qualified labor, was often deliberately simplified. By the way, will you compare SU25 with B52?
            2. Train
              Train 13 September 2020 11: 50 New
              0
              His armor did not protect from anything, except from fragments. The GFF and 151 barrels, not to mention the more powerful ones, coped with the armor without problems.
              1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                Andrei from Chelyabinsk 13 September 2020 16: 15 New
                +2
                Quote: Zug
                His armor did not protect him from anything.

                Can you substantiate this claim?
                1. mvg
                  mvg 13 September 2020 17: 58 New
                  -6
                  Can you substantiate this claim?

                  The greatest danger to the Il-2 was posed by small-caliber (20-37 mm) anti-aircraft artillery and large-caliber anti-aircraft machine guns, since their fire was most destructive at those heights from which the Il-2 usually operated. The fact is that the Il-2 armor provided protection mainly from normal bullets and partly from bullets of large calibers.
                  Source
                  https://airpages.ru/ru/il2_18.shtml#:~:text=%D0%91%D0%BE%D0%B5%D0%B2%D1%8B%D0%B5%20%D0%BF%D0%BE%D1%82%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%B8%20%D1%88%D1%82%D1%83%D1%80%D0%BC%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%B2%20%D0%B7%D0%B0%20%D0%B2%D1%81%D0%B5,53%2C5%20%D1%81%D0%B0%D0%BC%D0%BE%D0%BB%D0%B5%D1%82%D0%BE%2D%D0%B2%D1%8B%D0%BB%D0%B5%D1%82%D0%BE%D0%B2.
                  1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                    Andrei from Chelyabinsk 14 September 2020 07: 10 New
                    +1
                    We take your quote
                    Quote: mvg
                    The fact is that the Il-2 armor provided protection mainly from normal bullets and partly from bullets of large calibers.

                    In total, as we can see, she completely defended herself
                2. Train
                  Train 17 September 2020 09: 26 New
                  0
                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPdTkOAogYQ

                  here is the full alignment and all modifications of the engine, weapons, booking and undercover intrigues

                  transmission is not one, several
          3. Insurgent
            Insurgent 13 September 2020 07: 51 New
            +1
            Quote: mvg
            And what changed the appearance of the shooter from 7,62?

            Changed, and much yes

            Besides, apart from the 7,62mm ShKAS, wasn’t there a 12,7mm drill collar?
          4. Revolver
            Revolver 14 September 2020 02: 33 New
            0
            Quote: mvg
            And what changed the appearance of the shooter from 7,62?

            If I remember correctly, the shooter of the serial Il-2 was armed with a 12.7mm drill collar, and if it flew into a Bf.109, it would pierce it from any angle. Another thing in the "thin" go first hit.
            Officially 7.62 was not put there, well, maybe they were handicraftly remaking single ones and put what was at hand, but usually there was either ShKAS, or even YES. But even this is better than the "Ogloblin machine gun", i.e. a wooden stick representing a machine gun.
            So learn the materiel.
        2. Train
          Train 13 September 2020 11: 41 New
          0
          He took only 400 kg for a two-seater. And near Kursk, more single-seaters flew. By 42, the IL was already so outdated that the ready-made SU com VVS waited and demanded ... But ...
      2. Umalta
        Umalta 12 September 2020 21: 01 New
        0
        Well ... I compared it with my finger. Better compare a musket to a machine gun.
        1. mvg
          mvg 12 September 2020 21: 21 New
          -2
          Better compare a musket to a machine gun

          Give the ID of both. In mnu, just a musket and a machine gun are not inserted into the comparison plate. If only in one South African (French) book by Louis Boussinard.
      3. Rzzz
        Rzzz 12 September 2020 22: 45 New
        +1
        Quote: mvg
        In the ass 4x20 mm, with an automatic lead

        Yeah, if only. Two 12.7 machine guns, the gun was one on the early Boeings, but it was removed later. The Americans did not have a normal aircraft cannon, they loved their Browning M2 machine gun, which they put where they did not hit in unimaginable quantities.
        1. Revolver
          Revolver 14 September 2020 02: 38 New
          0
          Quote: rzzz
          Two 12.7 machine guns, the gun was one on the early Boeing, but it was removed later

          Don't you confuse B-17 and B-29? On 17, the guns did not seem to be installed at all, but on 29, depending on the modification.
          And Browning M2 caliber .50 (or 12.7mm in metric) is not a weak thing, in aviation even in Korea he managed to be noted, and in the army and navy it is still in service.
    3. Train
      Train 13 September 2020 11: 39 New
      -2
      Yes, they were knocked down once or twice.
  5. Mouse
    Mouse 12 September 2020 10: 40 New
    +1
    when they saw the disguised IL-2 near the road, they threw themselves on the ground out of fear and began to ask not to be shot.

    Let this fear be imprinted on the gene level ... and not only among the Germans ...
    1. Uncle lee
      Uncle lee 12 September 2020 11: 09 New
      +1
      Rebuild a couple of squadrons and fly over eastern and western Europe for gene memorization! angry
      1. Revolver
        Revolver 14 September 2020 02: 41 New
        +1
        Yes, there is nothing left to restore. Only if the drawings are raised in the archives and new ones are riveted on them. But who will finance?
        Quote: V. Vysotsky
        Where is the money?
  6. Asad
    Asad 12 September 2020 11: 29 New
    +4
    A neighbor, a veteran of the Second World War, told me what they were afraid of, 87 mg, mortars, and other infection. It was he who answered my moronic question, and what is scary in a war? He passed the war, returned wounded but alive!
  7. Free wind
    Free wind 12 September 2020 11: 42 New
    0
    Someone was afraid. Someone already did not care what was on our side, what was it on their part. As I write, about 2000 of the blue division remained in Berlin, despite the Franco order, on the withdrawal of all Spaniards from the fronts.
  8. tatarin1972
    tatarin1972 12 September 2020 19: 01 New
    +3
    The greatest irretrievable losses of the Red Army Air Force were in the assault air regiments. IL-2 is the most massive aircraft produced during the Great Patriotic War.
    1. fighter angel
      fighter angel 12 September 2020 21: 43 New
      0
      tatarin1972
      Alas, no.
      The greatest losses in the Red Army Air Force were still sustained by fighter units.
      Stormtroopers are in second place behind them.
      If interested: figures, links to sources I can provide a little later.
  9. Rzzz
    Rzzz 12 September 2020 22: 51 New
    +1
    There are recollections of the incident with the captured Germans on the territory of Poland in the spring of 1945, who, seeing the disguised IL-2 near the road, threw themselves to the ground out of fear and began to ask not to be shot ...
    ... It turned out that the German soldiers perceived the pilots of the Soviet attack aircraft as “the most natural animals


    Most likely, they thought that they had been brought to work at some secret airfield, and after finishing work they had one way - to the wall and underground.
    The Germans themselves widely adhered to this practice of "work" with prisoners. And these soldiers must have known her well.
  10. nikvic46
    nikvic46 13 September 2020 06: 37 New
    -1
    As a child, we read how in the first days of the war, our pilots bombed Germany. Now we are silent about this. Our propaganda itself helps to spread these myths. I had to listen and read the front-line soldiers. And I realized that our people were brought up by the Soviet regime. They were merciless in battle and merciful to the vanquished.
    1. Cartalon
      Cartalon 13 September 2020 10: 39 New
      +2
      What is the silence about? Information in bulk, archives open, search, read, listen to lectures.
    2. Train
      Train 13 September 2020 11: 53 New
      +2
      Why is it silent? Kuznetsov was involved in the bombing of Berlin. True, they did not get anywhere and most of the planes never made it. There was not even enough supply of oil in the oil tanks, it was so bad. But the propaganda effect was high, and this was what was needed then, at 41
    3. mat-vey
      mat-vey 13 September 2020 14: 15 New
      +1
      Quote: nikvic46
      As a child, we read how in the first days of the war, our pilots bombed Germany. Now we are silent about this.

      Yes, even a documentary is shown on Zvezda ..
    4. AVA77
      AVA77 13 September 2020 16: 50 New
      -4
      Look! They bombed Germany, but Germany was out of luck. Evil Russians both swooped in and bombed.
      1. Andrey VOV
        Andrey VOV 14 September 2020 16: 45 New
        0
        And why this sarcasm?
  11. Train
    Train 13 September 2020 11: 37 New
    -1
    Hospadya! Whom the Germans were not afraid of! Some guys are fearful ...
  12. AVA77
    AVA77 13 September 2020 16: 15 New
    0
    But I don't care! My grandfather fought and uncle and uncle uncles, Grandma worked on a tractor, fed my father, and my grandfather scrambled in the war. Do I owe them something?
  13. APASUS
    APASUS 13 September 2020 18: 10 New
    +2
    Learn to use propaganda, now fooled youth are fighting with riot police for a bright Ukrainian future !! They believe that Ukraine is not lucky, and Belarus will definitely be given a pension and a salary like in the EU.
  14. Herman 4223
    Herman 4223 14 September 2020 09: 51 New
    0
    Read about it. Propaganda can be complete game.
  15. Pavel57
    Pavel57 14 September 2020 10: 54 New
    0
    Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
    Accordingly, you need to find something in the area of ​​30,2K aircraft. Are looking for.
    11,5K - combat losses
    11 K - non-combat losses
    22,5K has already been found. The remaining 7.7 K are aircraft sent for factory repair (they passed the percentage of losses)

    According to statistics, not losses, but in fact losses.
  16. tolancop
    tolancop 14 September 2020 13: 57 New
    +2
    I really don't like the mod to make materials with a short title and a video. You open the material, hoping to read something worthwhile, and there is a video ... And it would be fine if the video was from the author of the title, but, alas .... stranger !!! Stolen, in a simple way. Well, what is the value of this material? I admit that the video would be appropriate, but as an addition to the presentation of the author's own thoughts. But alas, there are no thoughts, but there is a steal video. If I was an administrator, I would add an additional point to the Rules regarding the prohibition of other people's videos.
  17. Sergey Sfiedu
    Sergey Sfiedu 15 September 2020 00: 08 New
    0
    Well, yes - the Il-2 bore the brunt of direct air support for all the years of the war. But what's interesting is that both the Germans and the Allies also had one and two-seat attack aircraft. And here and there they were abandoned in favor of fighter-bombers. We, either did not understand their prospects, or simply did not have suitable engines.