Military Review

Weapons of the post-nuclear world: ground forces

278

Article "Consequences of a global nuclear war" we examined the factors complicating the restoration of civilization after a hypothetical global conflict with the use of nuclear weapons.


Let's briefly list these factors:
- the extinction of the population due to mass death at the very beginning of the conflict due to the highest urbanization and the subsequent high mortality due to a general weakening of health, poor nutrition, lack of hygiene, medical care, unfavorable climatic and environmental factors;
- the collapse of the industry due to the failure of high-tech automated equipment, lack of qualified labor and globalization of technological processes;
- the complexity of resource extraction due to the exhaustion of easily accessible deposits and the impossibility of recycling many resources due to their contamination with radioactive substances;
- a decrease in the area of ​​territories available for living and movement due to radiation contamination of the area and negative climate changes;
- destruction of government in most countries of the world.

Weapons of the post-nuclear world: ground forces

The world's largest copper mine in Chile, Escondida. Copper deficiency is already felt today, even without global shocks

On the one hand, all of the above factors will significantly complicate the development of the post-nuclear industry and the creation of new weapons and military equipment (AME). On the other hand, the lack of resources and territories for comfortable living is a destabilizing factor that provokes military conflicts.

In other words, they will fight, but the composition of weapons and military equipment in post-nuclear wars will change significantly in comparison with what determined the appearance of wars of the past and present.

Initial premises


It is highly probable that the state system in most of the developed countries of the world will be destroyed, and in the undeveloped countries it is not stable even now. As a result, tribal communities and certain quasi-state formations resembling feudal principalities will become the most common forms of uniting people.

In the absence of law and order, there is no doubt about the emergence of the strongest stratification of society, right up to the return to slavery. Moreover, judging by the latest events, in some states of the United States, it is not the black population that will be enslaved.

Production in the first decades, and even in the first century after the nuclear conflict, will be artisan workshops equipped with primitive equipment. In the more developed quasi-state formations, manufactories will appear, which to some extent will implement the conveyor division of labor. The most difficult thing will be with the production of electronic components: at best, the production of the simplest radio components will be established.


At the initial stage, the production of the post-nuclear world will be much inferior even to factories from the First World War.

In such conditions, it is difficult to expect the emergence of high-tech types of weapons, as well as weapons and ammunition, which will be produced in a large series.

Determining factors will be a shortage of fuel, a shortage of copper and a lack of complex electronic components. It will become impossible to ensure the creation of any large formations of armored vehicles, the widespread use of artillery and small arms. Most of the mobilization depots with weapons and ammunition will be destroyed during the "hot" phase of the nuclear conflict.


The lack of production of electronic components will significantly complicate the creation of even the simplest models of guided weapons

The following can be immediately excluded from the list of post-nuclear weapons and military equipment:
- spacecraft;
- nuclear weapon;
- jet aircraft;
- high-precision long-range weapons;
- homing weapon;
- large warships and submarines.


Complex and high-tech weapons will not appear in the post-nuclear world for a long time

What is left then?

Ground combat equipment


Weapon

The lack of ammunition is likely to lead to a forced refusal to fire bursts. At first, the remnants of 5,56x45 / 5,45x39 / 7,62x39 calibers (depending on the territory of distribution) with the appropriate weapons will be spent. But further, as the shortage of cartridges grows and the barrels wear, most likely, there will be a return to cartridges of the 7,62x51 / 7,62x54R type and the corresponding semi-automatic weapon for these cartridges. Due to the poor quality of "post-nuclear" cartridges, even simpler samples of weapons with manual reloading, for example, with a sliding bolt, can become widespread.


Small arms like the FN-FAL semi-automatic rifle and the Mosin rifle with a sliding bolt chambered for 7,62x51 and 7,62x54R cartridges, respectively, may become the most effective in the post-nuclear world

A similar situation may arise with machine guns: there will be no cartridges. It can be assumed that some of the machine guns can be converted into semi-automatic rifles of the corresponding caliber.

Large-caliber rifles using cartridges of 12,7x108 mm, 14,5x114 mm and even shells of 23x152 mm can be used as small arms of increased power.


Homemade large-caliber rifles of 12,7x108 mm and 14,5x114 mm


Homemade large-caliber rifle (hand cannon?) 23x152 mm

As the production of ammunition increases, automatic weapons, primarily machine guns, will return to their positions.

Grenades, grenade launchers and ATGM

Surviving after the first exchange of blows, and subsequently home-made and newly produced grenades, explosive devices and Molotov cocktails will be one of the simplest and most accessible means of warfare.


Homemade grenades

The infantry of the post-nuclear world will most likely use the simplest hand grenade launchers as heavy weapons. The winding of disposable transport and launch containers made of fiberglass is unlikely to appear soon after the war, therefore, various modifications of the Soviet RPG-7 with high-explosive fragmentation (HE) ammunition and grenade launchers, similar to the "shaitan-pipes" produced today by terrorists of different stripes, will become widespread.


RPG-7


Handcrafted anti-tank grenade launchers at ISIS (a terrorist organization banned in Russia)

As the technologies of the post-nuclear world improve, the simplest anti-tank guided missiles (ATGM) of the Fagot or Konkurs type with control by wire may appear.

Artillery and MLRS

As in the case of small arms, the shortage of ammunition will lead to the abandonment of the massive use of artillery and multiple launch rocket systems (MLRS).

The most widespread, most likely, will be recoilless guns, similar in manufacturing technology to RPGs, as well as mortars of various calibers.


Recoilless guns and mortars will become the basis of the artillery of the post-nuclear world

They will be joined by the simplest MLRS, consisting of one to four barrels, similar to those used by Hezbollah fighters against Israel.

Artillery carrying out direct fire can receive limited use, if such weapons remain after the active phase of a nuclear war. Large caliber guns are more likely to be used to reinforce defensive positions, while lighter guns can be mounted on vehicles.

Fighting vehicles

Tanks as the main striking force of the ground forces for a long time will not be affordable for the armies of the post-nuclear world. Basically, the surviving and restored tanks, depending on their condition, will be used as stationary or limitedly mobile firing points.


Long-term firing points (pillboxes) based on T-54 tanks

In offensive operations, tanks will be used extremely rarely, both due to a lack of fuel, and due to the rapid depletion of the resource of the chassis, engines and guns of the existing tanks. At the same time, there will be few tanks, and a lot of anti-tank weapons, which will also not facilitate the use of tanks in the offensive.

The relative availability of coal could cause a renaissance of steam locomotives as one of the main means of transportation and the emergence of armored trains. The armored trains will be used as part of railway convoys to guard transported goods.


Armored trains: "steampunk" of the post-nuclear world

The mobile forces of the post-nuclear world will predominantly be based on wheeled vehicles assembled from the remnants of vehicles produced before the war. Basically, these will be off-road vehicles of various classes and a kind of analogue of "gantruck" cars.


Gantraki

In warm regions with low radioactive contamination of the terrain, buggies can spread.


Buggy with weapons

Engineering barriers and mines

Mines of all types and engineering barriers will be widespread, even widespread: barbed wire, ditches, hedgehogs and other obstacles to the passage of equipment and the passage of people.


Along with homemade hand grenades, mines will become one of the most affordable means of armed struggle.


Engineering barriers

Tactic


As can be seen from the composition of the weapons given above, defensive weapons of armed struggle will receive priority development in the post-nuclear world. The superiority of means of defense over means of attack will contribute to the positional conduct of conflicts, which is quite consistent with the expected level of "rollback" of humanity to a level of development equivalent to the beginning of the XNUMXth century.

The main forms of hostilities between subjects with comparable human and material resources will be reconnaissance and sabotage activities, attacks on convoys and unprotected areas of the territory. The tactic is to find a free site that is interesting from the point of view of residence, resources or defense, gain a foothold on it, create strongholds and / or a line of defense.

As always in stories, larger, stronger and more developed communities will absorb or destroy the weaker ones, gradually expanding and turning into quasi-states. As the mining and production capabilities of such quasi-states grow, the armed forces of the post-nuclear world will begin to evolve, repeating the path of development traversed in the XNUMXth century and at the beginning of the XNUMXst century, with the only difference that it can stretch for two to three centuries.

In the next article, we will consider Aviation and the fleet of the post-nuclear world.
Author:
Photos used:
disgustingmen.com, ru.wikipedia.org, inosmi.ru, drive2.ru, bmpd.livejournal.com
Articles from this series:
What can it be? Nuclear war scenarios
What can it be? Conventional war scenarios
Consequences of a global nuclear war
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  1. Far B
    Far B 17 September 2020 05: 45
    12
    A-fi-get! One very intelligent person said that in a post-nuclear world, war would be fought with stones and sticks. And the author has a very, very different vision of the issue))) However, I am more inclined to believe that in the next hundreds of years after the nuclear cataclysm, there will simply be no conflicts that could be fully called military. There will be clashes, wall-to-wall collisions and other trifles. If, of course, we are talking about a full-fledged nuclear apocalypse, and not about one-time applications of nuclear weapons.
    1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 17 September 2020 07: 16
      +4
      I agree! It is worth adding fragments of bricks and pieces of reinforcement to the list!
      1. Blacksmith 55
        Blacksmith 55 17 September 2020 08: 00
        +7
        Good morning everyone and have a nice day.
        An article about weapons, but you need to eat not only the soldier, but also the civilian population. Therefore, conflicts will be primarily over food resources.
        Although this spring (because of the virus) there was an anecdote: Everyone buys pasta, but you have to buy a gun, then there will be pasta.
        1. Nikolaevich I
          Nikolaevich I 17 September 2020 08: 47
          -2
          Quote: Blacksmith 55
          An article about weapons, but you need to eat not only the soldier, but also the civilian population

          So soon there will be articles on how to make candy from a cavity, moonshine out of urine ... soap, fertilizers from corpses, stuffing for pillows, leather for lampshades ... Although, somewhere I've already read this! And the original of the 40s of the last century ... and a remake at the beginning of this ... on page IN! How would the Author then be accused of plagiarism!
          1. Shurik70
            Shurik70 17 September 2020 16: 46
            +2
            If someone from humanity survives, then this someone will sit in a bunker.
            A very large bunker, with its own energy source and extensive greenhouses to feed the population of the bunker.
            Obviously, this bunker will contain warehouses with equipment and weapons, and micro-production of the most essential. Obviously, cartridges are essential.
            Well, after 150 years, the descendants of the survivors will argue "was there a Apocalypse a century and a half ago, because there is so much evidence that the ruins of cities are at least a couple of thousand years old ..."
        2. Snail N9
          Snail N9 17 September 2020 09: 41
          +8
          In fact, since the 60s of the last century, the United States has been preoccupied with the existence in the era after a nuclear war. Some companies received assignments for the development of factories of the so-called "zero cycle", that is, completely autonomous, which at the entrance would require loading raw materials such as crumpled cars, fragments of structures, plant materials, etc., and at the output would have finished products in the form of cartridges, surrogate food , gunpowder, explosives, etc. Electricity for these plants would have been generated at underground unattended hydroelectric power plants, heating stations, small-sized nuclear installations, etc. Some of this was even built. However, only now the successes of scientific and technological progress, especially 3D printing, electronics and robotics with artificial intelligence, have already made it possible to seriously engage in the construction of such factories and enterprises at a new level. There are videos on YouTube where conspiracy theorists even show places where such factories have already been built or are being built
    2. Cyril G ...
      Cyril G ... 17 September 2020 08: 59
      11
      Quote: Far In
      A-fi-get! One very intelligent person said that in a post-nuclear world, war would be fought with stones and sticks. And the author has a very, very different vision of the issue))) However, I am more inclined to believe that in the next hundreds of years after the nuclear cataclysm, there will simply be no conflicts that could be fully called military. There will be clashes, wall-to-wall collisions and other trifles. If, of course, we are talking about a full-fledged nuclear apocalypse, and not about one-time applications of nuclear weapons.


      I do not agree - it is banal that the tonnage of the nuclear warheads currently available is relatively small. From this, nuclear strikes will be launched against important military facilities such as large naval bases near the United States, and air bases, energy and military-industrial complex facilities, capitals, etc. etc. At the same time, a bunch of countries are cheerful and will not even touch ... That is why I predict a dump in about the last quarter of the 19th century, yes.
      1. garri-lin
        garri-lin 17 September 2020 09: 20
        +8
        Different societies will coexist at the same time. Places not affected by the blows will roll back into the middle of the 20th century. They hardly get hurt. Only the disruption of economic ties. And a lot of refugees. But the regions that have sold may be strongly rolled back up to the Middle Ages. Feudal princes sitting on the remains of supplies and technologies.
        1. Cyril G ...
          Cyril G ... 17 September 2020 10: 39
          +3
          Quote: garri-lin
          Different societies will coexist at the same time. Places not affected by the blows will roll back into the middle of the 20th century. They hardly get hurt. Only the disruption of economic ties. And a lot of refugees. But the regions that have sold may be strongly rolled back up to the Middle Ages. Feudal princes sitting on the remains of supplies and technologies.


          Something like this..
        2. Reptiloid
          Reptiloid 17 September 2020 17: 46
          +1
          Quote: garri-lin
          Different societies will coexist at the same time. Places not affected by the blows will roll back into the middle of the 20th century. They hardly get hurt. Only the disruption of economic ties. And a lot of refugees. But the regions that have sold may be strongly rolled back up to the Middle Ages. Feudal princes sitting on the remains of supplies and technologies.

          100% agree with you! And also with Paul Anderson, who described the same in the novels "Winter Over the World" and "Orion Rises", with John Wyndham, who wrote the series of stories "Call of Space". But some works of modern Russian science fiction writers are even cooler!
          It turns out that Humanity will never learn anything, and will again be on the verge of another nuclear conflict ...
          1. garri-lin
            garri-lin 17 September 2020 18: 07
            0
            Robert Merle. Malvil. One of the last paragraphs. (I think we would have chosen the second part of the alternative, if we were sure that other groups of people who survived in France and in other countries would not choose the first. For there was no doubt: in this case, having an overwhelming superiority in technology, they would immediately want to enslave us .) The first option is the pogress of guns and weapons. Second: (Or from our own evil experience, knowing what dangers technology brings with it, we must once and for all outlaw any technical progress and the production of machines ..)
            I think this explains everything. Humanity tends to defend itself against threats. Despite the fact that most of the threats are invented by their exuberant imagination.
      2. dauria
        dauria 17 September 2020 09: 44
        +2
        At the same time, a bunch of countries are cheerful and will not even touch ... That is why I predict a dump in about the last quarter of the 19th century,


        We started well, but the conclusion is amazing. Why would you suddenly fall down? With the exchange of nuclear weapons, the war begins, but does not end. Then they will continue to hammer the enemy until they lose control of the country. It's a couple of months. There will be enough reserves for that. Or they will conclude peace on someone else's terms. The winners will be the one who stood on the sidelines - he will also take part in the redistribution of the planet. The borders will be redrawn, the dead will be buried, the Internet will be turned on and will continue to live, holding carnivals and Olympiads. This "disassembly" will affect most of the people only in the form of inconvenience. But the "fighters" will get it.
        1. Shopping Mall
          17 September 2020 10: 13
          +9
          Quote: dauria
          At the same time, a bunch of countries are cheerful and will not even touch ... That is why I predict a dump in about the last quarter of the 19th century,


          We started well, but the conclusion is amazing. Why would you suddenly fall down? With the exchange of nuclear weapons, the war begins, but does not end. Then they will continue to hammer the enemy until they lose control of the country. It's a couple of months. There will be enough reserves for that. Or they will conclude peace on someone else's terms. The winners will be the one who stood on the sidelines - he will also take part in the redistribution of the planet. The borders will be redrawn, the dead will be buried, the Internet will be turned on and will continue to live, holding carnivals and Olympiads. This "disassembly" will affect most of the people only in the form of inconvenience. But the "fighters" will get it.


          The war will begin with the exchange of strategic nuclear weapons, and will continue with the exchange of tactical nuclear weapons until the reserves are completely depleted. The PMSM and we and the US and the PRC will crush any centers of power that may remain. There will be no choice, otherwise the new leaders will definitely decide to "punish" someone for a global war - after all, everyone needs an enemy and always, and they will punish the one who is closer. Do you think the United States is hunting for Mexico to avenge it for the selected Texas, for the walls at the border, for being treated like a cheap labor? It's the same with Latin America. China will not want Australia to rise, we also do not need especially "cheerful" neighbors.

          Almost nothing will change only in countries like Afghanistan. If only drug markets lose ...
          1. paul3390
            paul3390 17 September 2020 10: 49
            +7
            It also seems to me that everyone will get it .. For after the States, Russia, of course, needs to beat all its neighbors, except perhaps China and Kazakhstan .. Do we need it so that Poland, Turkey, and others remain intact after a destructive war? So that they immediately rushed to us to share what is left of us? Nooo, everyone will be shocked, and some of the most arrogant - will actually be glazed over the entire area ..
            1. Reptiloid
              Reptiloid 17 September 2020 18: 04
              +1
              hi
              Quote: paul3390
              It also seems to me that everyone will get it .. For after the States, Russia, of course, needs to beat all its neighbors, except perhaps China and Kazakhstan .. Do we need it so that Poland, Turkey, and others remain intact after a destructive war? So that they immediately rushed to us to share what is left of us? Nooo, everyone will be shocked, and some of the most arrogant - will actually be glazed over the entire area ..

              And there is! The Englishman John Wyndham in the 4th story from the "Call of Space" series wrote that in the post-nuclear World, most of Eurasia and all of North America are turned into a radioactive desert, the polar ice has melted, the people of the Southern Hemisphere are trying to restore the biosphere and ecology of the Northern Hemisphere by planting Martian plants (accustomed to such conditions), the main character flies to Venus to prevent a nuclear conflict between Brazil and Australia!
              But the most amazing story on this topic is "Sister Earth" "by Paul Anderson!
            2. CTABEP
              CTABEP 19 September 2020 17: 05
              0
              Will there be enough vlupilok? When you have 15 minutes to make a decision to launch a retaliatory oncoming strike, you should think that it would be necessary to re-target the launchers of the 626th RP at Turkey, and no one will hit the 104th division in Poland and the Czech Republic. Moreover, when retaliating, to spend the remaining few missiles not on the enemy, but on a "potential threat." Because 10-20 warheads will not destroy the same Poland or Turkey to the ground, but to justify actions after the war, up to genocide, is quite. Rather, I will believe in the fifty tiao charges left "just in case", which in the world after a global exchange of strikes will be just a guarantee from neighbors. Yes, and no one canceled the simple human psyche - in the stabbing, being mortally wounded, you are unlikely to rush to poke the viewer with a knife because of the thought that you will die, and he will rob your corpse and will live on - you will continue to poke the culprit your death, dragging him along.
          2. kalibr
            kalibr 17 September 2020 11: 20
            +3
            Andrei! Good material. I like this!
          3. Incvizitor
            Incvizitor 17 September 2020 23: 27
            0
            What to assume? Some are already fighting on this.


            From the shooter, of course, like all sorts of mosinki, all sorts of m 4 immediately pereklinit.
      3. max702
        max702 24 October 2020 19: 52
        0
        What are we going to do with the thousands of destroyed nuclear reactors? Here with Chernobyl they did not figure it out, and they do not know what to do with the focus, and all this is in peacetime .. Do you seriously think after all that has happened on earth it will be possible to live? Especially decades later?
    3. PSih2097
      PSih2097 17 September 2020 10: 19
      0
      Quote: Dalny V
      and not about one-time applications of nuclear weapons.

      as soon as someone once applies nuclear weapons, a full-fledged third world war will immediately begin ...
      1. Cyril G ...
        Cyril G ... 17 September 2020 10: 42
        +2
        Quote: PSih2097
        Quote: Dalny V
        and not about one-time applications of nuclear weapons.

        as soon as someone once applies nuclear weapons, a full-fledged third world war will immediately begin ...


        For a full-fledged TMV, many conditions must be met. But the fact that there is a certain expectation of the first use of tactical nuclear weapons is, to create a precedent, I completely and completely agree.
    4. Free wind
      Free wind 17 September 2020 10: 33
      +1
      The First World War was not fought with sticks, although there were sabers and pikes.
    5. snake
      snake 17 September 2020 12: 23
      +2
      Quote: Dalny V
      One very intelligent person said that in a post-nuclear world, war would be fought with stones and sticks.

      Yet it was Einstein's hyperbole. Some military warehouses will remain, some engineers will survive. And the survivors certainly have enough brains at least for shields and spears. So sticks and stones are a metaphor.
    6. Klingon
      Klingon 16 November 2020 15: 25
      0
      do not agree. There will be no complete apocalypse. It will be what the author described, that's just worth revising Mad Max, one of my favorite childhood films wink
  2. Pessimist22
    Pessimist22 17 September 2020 06: 02
    +6
    The cavalry with sabers is undeservedly not stubborn.
    1. Morris812
      Morris812 17 September 2020 07: 21
      +1
      Actually, yes, with such stocks of riflemen and ammunition, all ground forces will be represented by riders with machine guns and horse teams with cannons. Until the cartridges run out ...
      1. abrakadabre
        abrakadabre 1 November 2020 14: 55
        0
        Until the cartridges run out ...
        And after that, until the gunpowder runs out. Then it remains to switch to black powder, the components for which are much easier to find. This will not require a developed chemical industry.
      2. Cyril G ...
        Cyril G ... 20 November 2020 13: 05
        0
        Where can you get the horses?
    2. Nikolaevich I
      Nikolaevich I 17 September 2020 08: 20
      +9
      Quote: Pessimist22
      The cavalry with sabers is undeservedly not stubborn

      Duc, why should the cavalry take it? belay The horses will be devoured! bully
      1. garri-lin
        garri-lin 17 September 2020 09: 26
        0
        If there is at least some kind of power that horses will not be devoured. And not because of cavalry with sabers. And as a draft force for cultivating the land. They will cherish and breed.
        1. Reptiloid
          Reptiloid 17 September 2020 18: 15
          +2
          ... horses ... will be protected and bred ...

          However, Paul Anderson, Philip José Farmer and Sterling Linier disagree. All three wrote independently of each other that HORSES would not survive a nuclear conflict. Paul Anderson in The Long Way Home and Lainier in The Journey of Iero. Something like this. There is such an opinion. Maybe what biological features were known to these science fiction writers ???
          1. garri-lin
            garri-lin 17 September 2020 18: 45
            +1
            And Robert Merle built his entire post-apocalyptic agrarian world around horses. Science fiction writers are science fiction writers. Whether he has survived or not is unknown. But without them it will be ten times more difficult. But if the horses survive the cataclysm itself, then reasonable people will use them not as food, but as draft force. And they will be eaten last.
            1. Reptiloid
              Reptiloid 17 September 2020 20: 23
              +3
              I remember: Farmer's reindeer were ridden (although there was a hot climate), Linier's was on moose the size of a rhinoceros, and Anderson's protagonist, who was 5000 years into the future, in the era of technocracy and genetic engineering, was offered to raise for him one horse from protoplasm and said that horses and dogs survived on the planets of Alpha Centauri ... Although you are right: in any case, there will be no horses!
      2. Alexey RA
        Alexey RA 17 September 2020 12: 05
        +4
        Quote: Nikolaevich I
        Duc, why should the cavalry take it? belay The horses will be devoured! bully

        Nothing ... after a nuclear war, they will dissect on riding cockroaches. smile
        1. Nikolaevich I
          Nikolaevich I 17 September 2020 20: 57
          +1
          Quote: Alexey RA
          after a nuclear war will be dissected by riding cockroaches

          What is this ... cockroach racing? I heard something! ...
        2. Cyril G ...
          Cyril G ... 21 November 2020 00: 23
          0
          Fallout had quite decent cockroaches laughing
  3. Fuse angel
    Fuse angel 17 September 2020 06: 03
    +1
    After a nuclear conflict, who will fight at all?
    1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 17 September 2020 07: 17
      +5
      To cats with mutant dogs !!! laughing although I would bet on rats or cockroaches !!! No.
    2. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
      Andrei from Chelyabinsk 17 September 2020 07: 20
      +9
      There will, of course. Today, for example, our nuclear potential does not ensure the complete destruction of the United States. The world will definitely survive, and so will humanity
      1. g1washntwn
        g1washntwn 17 September 2020 08: 11
        -5
        This is after the first exchange of blows, and then both chemical and bio and damn what else will be used.
        Why do we need such a world in which there will be no Russia? The price of the issue is a little more than 500 tons of cobalt-50, and in 10 years there will be a bunch of glowing ghouls with a tree in their forehead made of fallout.
        1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
          Andrei from Chelyabinsk 17 September 2020 08: 23
          +3
          Quote: g1washntwn
          This is after the first exchange of blows, and then both chemical and bio and damn what else will be used.

          Nothing will be used, except TNW. There are no especially large stocks of chemical weapons, biological - I do not believe in super-scary viruses, in general, China and Europe will suffer relatively little in this whole mess. And even if later they are mowed down by 2/3 of the same biological weapon, nothing fatal for them will happen - in the old days, the plague did not do that. And all their production facilities will remain intact
          1. g1washntwn
            g1washntwn 17 September 2020 08: 55
            -2
            China and Europe will suffer comparatively little in this whole mess.

            The version does not fit into the goals of the global apocalypse, into the local conflict with TNW - yes, and then only partially. The proverb has been heard "once such a booze has gone - cut the last cucumber"? So even there, no one will leave an opponent stronger than himself, and even alliances will be expended. now there are no large reserves of chemical and bio explainable, this is a weapon of the second series of mutual genocide, which must complete what was started and finally clean up the resistance. Stealth and robots from the same series, but their use is questionable after massive attacks on all types and infrastructure, only one-time survivors, and "slow types of weapons of mass destruction" to produce somewhere under the Cardillera or under the ice of "neutral" Greenlands is not difficult ...
            1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
              Andrei from Chelyabinsk 17 September 2020 09: 27
              +5
              Quote: g1washntwn
              Have you heard the proverb "once such a booze has gone - cut the last cucumber"? So there, too, no one will leave an opponent stronger than himself, and even alliances will be expended

              They won't. The Americans, too, will barely have enough of their strategic nuclear forces to destroy the Russian Federation, but they will wipe us off the face of the earth. At the same time, the United States itself from our strategic nuclear forces will incur heavy losses and it will definitely not have time to turn Europe against itself, the forces to destroy which they will no longer have.
              Quote: g1washntwn
              slow types of weapons of mass destruction "to produce somewhere under the Cardillera or under the ice of" neutral "Greenland is not difficult.

              This is not necessary for the Russian Federation, and it will not destroy Europe and China, so there is no point in inventing essences beyond what is necessary
          2. Shopping Mall
            17 September 2020 08: 57
            10
            Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
            Quote: g1washntwn
            This is after the first exchange of blows, and then both chemical and bio and damn what else will be used.

            Nothing will be used, except TNW. There are no especially large stocks of chemical weapons, biological - I do not believe in super-scary viruses, in general, China and Europe will suffer relatively little in this whole mess. And even if later they are mowed down by 2/3 of the same biological weapon, nothing fatal for them will happen - in the old days, the plague did not do that. And all their production facilities will remain intact


            Here we can note such a moment - viruses are most dangerous for the global society, with its international travel, flights, crowds of people. And in the post-nuclear world, when it will be divided for a long time into isolated groups of survivors, the influence of biological weapons will greatly decrease. All villages / towns / regional centers around the planet cannot be covered.
            1. g1washntwn
              g1washntwn 17 September 2020 10: 58
              0
              Quote: AVM
              in the post-nuclear world, when it will be divided into separate groups of survivors for a long time, the influence of biological weapons will greatly decrease

              On the contrary, carpet bombing and ground military operations are more convenient for clearing local groups and territories. Besides "humane" is nowhere to go, have you not read the "artwork" of the Nazis and the Japanese? Bombs and missiles - this is death and uncivilized (besides, it is expensive and with losses), but then he sprayed a drone over the settlement of surviving infected insects - and they themselves seemed to die from unsanitary conditions, freeing up space and resources for correct, exceptional and democratic peacekeepers.
          3. Cyril G ...
            Cyril G ... 17 September 2020 09: 02
            +6
            Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
            in general, China and Europe


            I disagree. Europe will be well ironed with tactics. Modern infrastructure doesn't need much. The PRC will be slammed into anything along a cascade of dams in the upper reaches of the great rivers, the most densely populated areas, and will wash them off to a common hair dryer ... Latin America and Africa, in principle, will not suffer. And to the Antipodes, it will certainly fly extremely limited ...
            1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
              Andrei from Chelyabinsk 17 September 2020 09: 30
              +3
              Quote: Cyril G ...
              I disagree. Europe will be well ironed with tactics.

              Who and what? We have a lot of TNW, but for the most part they have short ranges - like artillery shells.
              Quote: Cyril G ...
              In the PRC, they will slam the most densely populated areas along a cascade of dams in the upper reaches of the great rivers, and wash them off to a common hair dryer ...

              It will be a disaster, but not fatal. They will recover completely after half a billion human losses.
              1. g1washntwn
                g1washntwn 17 September 2020 09: 40
                0
                Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                It will be a disaster, but not fatal.

                That is, as I understand it, you are from the "It's okay, you can start" camp?
                1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                  Andrei from Chelyabinsk 17 September 2020 10: 09
                  +7
                  Quote: g1washntwn
                  That is, as I understand it, you are from the "It's okay, you can start" camp?

                  Well, if for you the death of the Russian Federation as a country and a nation, and the death of at least 150 million people in the United States, that's okay ...
                  Tell me, how old are you? Even my youngest son, who has not yet turned 6, has a less polar, black-and-white perception of reality than yours. You have either a kirdyk for humanity, or nothing to worry about. There are no intermediate states for you?
                  1. g1washntwn
                    g1washntwn 17 September 2020 10: 16
                    -2
                    You twist ... attempts to offend ... fi, how primitive it is.
                    1. The comment was deleted.
                  2. g1washntwn
                    g1washntwn 17 September 2020 10: 47
                    +1
                    Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                    You have - either a kirdyk for humanity, or - it's okay. There are no intermediate states for you?

                    Such an "intermediate state" in relation to weapons of mass destruction occurs only in a body that threw itself from a skyscraper, in flight, so to speak. About global scenario of application of nuclear weapons and weapons of mass destruction in particular, do you see an "intermediate state"? Or did they seriously believe in the safety of nuclear slapping?
                    My "friend" is a global conflict, the consequences of which the author is trying to predict - not anonymous distribution of dislikes due to three firewalls, no matter what they say about the lack of intentions or current opportunities. They kill either completely or like today, they simply intimidate with this action. And if I have been retired for a long time, I have seen enough of the most different "life experiences", judging by the age of your son, you are younger than me (unless, of course, you are Alla Pugacheva and Galkin).
                    1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                      Andrei from Chelyabinsk 17 September 2020 10: 58
                      +2
                      Quote: g1washntwn
                      Such an "intermediate state" in relation to weapons of mass destruction occurs only in a body that has thrown itself from a skyscraper, in flight, so to speak.

                      No, after all 5 years
                      Quote: g1washntwn
                      Regarding the global scenario of the use of nuclear weapons and weapons of mass destruction, in particular, do you see an "intermediate state"?

                      Quite right. And you will see if you take the trouble to study the issue
                      1. g1washntwn
                        g1washntwn 17 September 2020 12: 27
                        -2
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        No, after all 5 years

                        Do we continue to be rude? Maybe it's your age after all?
                      2. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                        Andrei from Chelyabinsk 18 September 2020 09: 33
                        0
                        Quote: g1washntwn
                        Do we continue to be rude?

                        Yeah :))) You can keep complaining
                      3. g1washntwn
                        g1washntwn 18 September 2020 10: 07
                        -2
                        So they would immediately say that you have a "furry paw" in the VO admins (unless you yourself are in this caste), then your rudeness to the rest is understandable
              2. hohol95
                hohol95 17 September 2020 11: 34
                +1
                According to you, we will be completely destroyed (there will be rats and cockroaches with Colorado beetles), and the Americans will start writing "letters from a dead man"?
                1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                  Andrei from Chelyabinsk 17 September 2020 11: 51
                  +6
                  Quote: hohol95
                  According to you, we will be completely destroyed (there will be rats and cockroaches with Colorado beetles), and the Americans will start writing "letters from a dead man"?

                  I have already given detailed explanations to this. The number of warheads that we can bring down on each other is approximately the same 1500-1600 pieces. Moreover, our country has approximately 1100 cities. Of course, one standard 100 Kt warhead will not be enough to destroy some of them, but nevertheless. As for the USA, they have about 19 cities. And hitting them all by hitting 000 warheads is completely impossible. Infrastructure? There are 1600 hydroelectric power plants alone in the United States, and 1300 power plants in total
                  Not only do we have a population 2,2 times less than in the United States, but we also have more overcrowding - the bulk of the population lives in only 100 cities.
                  1. hohol95
                    hohol95 17 September 2020 12: 06
                    +3
                    Then I'll hide a clean sheet.
                    For, as our military instructor used to say - "I saw a nuclear fungus in the distance, take a white sheet and slowly, without creating panic, crawl towards the nearest cemetery!"
                  2. Nastia makarova
                    Nastia makarova 17 September 2020 12: 17
                    +2
                    where did you get the idea that all the cities out of 1100 will be hit? half has no strategic value at all
                    it is necessary to count cities in the USA over half a million
                  3. hohol95
                    hohol95 17 September 2020 12: 31
                    +1
                    So we have from 0,5 to more than 1 million only 38 cities!
                    With a total population of about 48 million!
                  4. Nastia makarova
                    Nastia makarova 17 September 2020 13: 12
                    0
                    these 38 will suffer
                2. hohol95
                  hohol95 17 September 2020 12: 37
                  +2
                  USA
                  10 - millionaire cities (from 1 million people)
                  56 - large cities (from 300 thousand people to 1 million people)
                  If we take cities from 250 thousand, then we can add 40 more cities (from 250 to 500 thousand).
                3. Nastia makarova
                  Nastia makarova 17 September 2020 13: 15
                  -4
                  66 these are the goals, and who will live in small ones will regret that he did not live in a large
                4. hohol95
                  hohol95 17 September 2020 21: 26
                  0
                  What a bloodthirsty you are ...
                  Maybe just hit the Yellowstone Caldera?
                5. Nastia makarova
                  Nastia makarova 18 September 2020 08: 17
                  -2
                  you can hit if it helps)))) but this is most likely a fake about a volcano
                6. hohol95
                  hohol95 18 September 2020 09: 25
                  0
                  but this is most likely a fake about a volcano

                  Who has not tried ...
        2. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
          Andrei from Chelyabinsk 18 September 2020 09: 47
          +1
          Quote: Nastia Makarova
          where did you get the idea that all the cities out of 1100 will be hit?

          Maybe not for all, but the fact is that the Americans are quite capable of destroying most of the cities of the Russian Federation. As a matter of fact, more than 172 million people are concentrated in 76 largest cities of the Russian Federation. about the data of 2020 and this is more than half of all of us
          Americans have about 172 million people in 72 largest cities (according to 2010 data), that is, significantly less than a quarter of the total population
        3. Grim Reaper
          Grim Reaper 18 September 2020 12: 23
          0
          Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
          Quote: Nastia Makarova
          where did you get the idea that all the cities out of 1100 will be hit?

          Maybe not for all, but the fact is that the Americans are quite capable of destroying most of the cities of the Russian Federation. As a matter of fact, more than 172 million people are concentrated in 76 largest cities of the Russian Federation. about the data of 2020 and this is more than half of all of us
          Americans have about 172 million people in 72 largest cities (according to 2010 data), that is, significantly less than a quarter of the total population

          The consequences of a nuclear strike will be an order of magnitude more serious. Loss of control, epidemics, etc.
          The right of the strong (who will survive) The point is to sit in the bunker, if six months later, when he comes out, he meets a chipped man with an ak: "ah, it's because of you, my children ..... well, get it."
          There will be no war of annihilation.
    3. alstr
      alstr 17 September 2020 15: 28
      +1
      Despite the seemingly more cities in the United States. Strange as it may seem, 80% of the population both in our country and in the USA live in about 30-40 cities.
      Of these, half a million. The rest is not so important due to the absence of any significant industry there.
      So there are enough warheads to withdraw a significant part of the population.

      About power plants. In the United States, there are only about two dozen LARGE electricity distribution nodes, that is, it is not necessary to remove all power plants - it is enough to remove these nodes and the whole system will be covered. What happens if at least one such node is displayed, we have already observed in the recent past.

      We are not better either.
    4. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
      Andrei from Chelyabinsk 18 September 2020 08: 51
      +1
      Quote: alstr
      Strange as it may seem, 80% of the population both in our country and in the USA live in about 30-40 cities.

      Totally wrong
  4. hohol95
    hohol95 17 September 2020 21: 33
    +1
    And if you hit the craters of volcanoes or places of tictonic faults?
    Yes, and large platinum beckons them to destroy and flood what is downstream!
    And so on ...
  5. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
    Andrei from Chelyabinsk 18 September 2020 08: 52
    +2
    Quote: hohol95
    And if you hit the craters of volcanoes or places of tictonic faults?

    Waste your ammo
    Quote: hohol95
    Yes, and large platinum beckons them to destroy and flood what is downstream!

    I have already indicated the number of hydroelectric power plants - 1300
  6. hohol95
    hohol95 18 September 2020 09: 29
    0
    Waste your ammo

    Did you carry out similar calculations? And there is their published data?
    Nobody has ever done this in practice.
  7. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
    Andrei from Chelyabinsk 18 September 2020 09: 53
    0
    Quote: hohol95
    Nobody has ever done this in practice.

    Yes. But there is some idea of ​​what powers nature operates, and what - man. Nuclear weapons on a natural scale are not even a mosquito bite, orders of magnitude less impact
  8. hohol95
    hohol95 18 September 2020 09: 50
    0
    Dr. Simon Day of the University College London Research Center warns that one of the slopes of the Cumbre Vieja volcano, located on the island of La Palma in the Canary archipelago, is unstable and could collapse into the ocean. Swiss researchers who modeled the landslide say that a rock weighing half a trillion tons can collapse into the water, resulting in a wave 650 meters high that can very quickly cross the Atlantic at a speed of 720 km / h.
    “The wave can be so gigantic that its consequences will affect on the other side of the Atlantic Ocean, on the citizens of the United States and Great Britain, who have never heard of La Palma,” Dr. Day told the BBC.
    The results of his recent work have been published in the Journal of Volcanology and Geothermal Research.
    The seriousness of these results is evidenced by the fact that members of the Geological Society of London intend to send a letter to the British Minister of Science, Lord Sainsbury, warning about the danger posed by the so-called Atlantic megatsunami. The Society hopes that the minister will take this letter as seriously as the recent warning about the threat of a collision of the Earth with one of the asteroids.
    "If the volcano collapses in a single block, it will lead to the emergence of megatsunami 650 meters high," says Hermann Fritz of the Swiss Federal Institute of Technology, which provided the equipment for simulating the disaster. - A wave from 30 to 40 kilometers long will travel across the Atlantic at a speed of up to 720 kilometers per hour to the west - towards America. Part of the mega tsunami will hit the UK.


    More details: https://odintsovo.info/white/blog.asp?id=17685
  9. Narak-zempo
    Narak-zempo 19 September 2020 14: 22
    0
    Sounds promising, but how to bring it down?
  10. hohol95
    hohol95 19 September 2020 21: 57
    +1
    Nobody knows about such calculations ...
    Or maybe somewhere there are folders with calculations on how to bring down mountain glaciers and avalanches, cause earthquakes, arrange a sudden volcanic eruption in the enemy's territory.
    Whether there are any calculations or not - it's like life on the planet Mars! Maybe there is, maybe not ...
  11. Narak-zempo
    Narak-zempo 20 September 2020 08: 40
    +1
    Quote: hohol95
    Nobody knows about such calculations ...
    Or maybe somewhere there are folders with calculations on how to bring down mountain glaciers and avalanches, cause earthquakes, arrange a sudden volcanic eruption in the enemy's territory.
    Whether there are any calculations or not - it's like life on the planet Mars! Maybe there is, maybe not ...

    This is such a chance for Russia!
    The tsunami won't catch us. But after washing away our Western partners, you can come with humanitarian aid. Return Shoigu the post of Minister of Emergency Situations, leaving him concurrently Minister of Defense laughing And you look, our tanks are already in London and Washington, and at the same time Russia is not an aggressor, but quite the opposite.
    And no one will prove anything, and everyone who dares to blather "highly like" will quickly disappear laughing
  12. hohol95
    hohol95 20 September 2020 22: 05
    0
    Every joke has some joke (or truth)! hi
  13. Local from the Volga
    Local from the Volga 19 September 2020 14: 05
    +1
    Do you count every dam with a motor for the Bratsk hydroelectric power station?
  14. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
    Andrei from Chelyabinsk 19 September 2020 17: 25
    +2
    Quote: Local from the Volga
    Do you count every dam with a motor for the Bratsk hydroelectric power station?

    The Americans, like us, do not have "dams with a motor." There are relatively small hydroelectric power plants that provide electricity to equally small settlements. And it should be understood that after the exchange of nuclear strikes, the Americans will have a mass of settlements with a population of tens of thousands of people each, in which even the light will not go out
  15. Oprichnik
    Oprichnik 22 September 2020 18: 29
    0
    You forget about the presence in the United States of high-rise dams in the mountains and hundreds of cubic kilometers of water pressing against them. The collapse of the dam with the help of a relatively low-power nuclear warhead will cause catastrophic floods that wash away EVERYTHING in the river valleys. Moreover, the effect will be even greater than from a simple hit of a low-power nuclear warhead in some city there.
  16. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
    Andrei from Chelyabinsk 23 September 2020 08: 35
    +1
    Quote: Oprichnik
    The collapse of the dam with the help of a relatively low-power nuclear warhead will cause catastrophic floods that will wash away EVERYTHING in the river valleys.

    Let's clarify. When the largest dam in the United States was threatened with destruction, the total number of evacuees was only 130 thousand people. Https://russian.rt.com/world/article/358688-evakuaciya-plotina-orvill-ssha
    "The volume of water in the lake is estimated at more than 4,3 billion cubic meters. The height of the dam in Oroville is 235 m, this is the highest dam in the United States. It is only 7 meters below the Sayano-Shushenskaya hydroelectric power station on the Yenisei."
    "At the moment, about 130 thousand people have been removed from the settlements of Live Oak, Marysville, Wheatland, Plumas Lake, Olivehurst, Gridley, Oroville, Yuba City."
    You see, after all, Americans are not that completely crazy and do not build millionaires under dams. In addition, you need to understand that the bulk of the water from the broken dam will go along the river bed, along which it flowed before. In general, you greatly exaggerate the consequences
  17. your1970
    your1970 27 September 2020 23: 19
    0
    Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
    Infrastructure? There are 1300 hydroelectric power plants alone in the United States, and 8000 power plants in total

    It is enough to chop half - the second itself will burn out due to overloads and imbalance in the networks. In the field, it may be that 10 is enough - this is already the power industry must calculate how much and where - "bang" on the US energy
  • Nastia makarova
    Nastia makarova 17 September 2020 12: 14
    -2
    Why will the Russian Federation die and the United States not ??? will lose 150 and not 350?
    1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
      Andrei from Chelyabinsk 18 September 2020 08: 52
      +2
      Quote: Nastia Makarova
      Why will the Russian Federation die and the United States not ???

      Due to the fact that their population is more than 2 times larger, and they live less crowded than we
      1. Nastia makarova
        Nastia makarova 18 September 2020 09: 54
        -2
        they also live crowded, near two coasts
      2. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
        Andrei from Chelyabinsk 18 September 2020 10: 07
        0
        I have already shown on the example of the largest cities, comment from 09:47
  • Cyril G ...
    Cyril G ... 17 September 2020 10: 45
    +3
    Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
    but for the most part it has short ranges - like artillery shells.


    No, mostly missile nuclear warheads as far as I've heard. There are very few shells. And given the crowded Europe, there will be little pleasant there too. And the problem is not even in the aftermath of the use of TNW, but in the chains of man-made disasters as consequences ...
    And most importantly, we have no other choice but to use tactical nuclear weapons in Europe and on the battlefield ...

    They will recover completely after half a billion human losses.

    There is a version that in terms of population, Asians are lying. And not so stupid, considering the size of the lies in general .. Starting with the greenhouse effect and other things.
    1. kalibr
      kalibr 17 September 2020 11: 46
      +4
      Quote: Cyril G ...
      and in chains of man-made disasters as consequences ...

      The cooling systems of nuclear power plants will stop and many, many new Chernobyls will cover Europe with radioactive fog. And if isotopes from nuclear explosions are short-lived, then these ... at least 99 years!
      1. Cyril G ...
        Cyril G ... 17 September 2020 11: 48
        +4
        There are not only nuclear power plants but also chemical production and other nasty things, and most importantly, everything is very tightly packed in a limited area
      2. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
        Andrei from Chelyabinsk 17 September 2020 12: 09
        +2
        Quote: kalibr
        The cooling systems of nuclear power plants will stop and many, many new Chernobyls will cover Europe with radioactive fog

        And how much did Chernobyl let the radioactive fog go? :) The Japanese began to settle at the site of nuclear explosions in a couple of years, and - yes - leukemia took place, but did not die out
        1. kalibr
          kalibr 17 September 2020 12: 23
          +3
          Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
          The Japanese began to settle at the site of nuclear explosions after a couple of years

          Andrey, the fact of the matter is that the explosion and "Chernobyl" are different things. By the way, such a calculation has already been made and horrified the specialists. In short, the most effective way to hit the cooling systems of nuclear power plants with conventional missiles and ... that's it!
          1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
            Andrei from Chelyabinsk 18 September 2020 08: 54
            0
            Quote: kalibr
            By the way, such a calculation has already been made and horrified the specialists.

            I'm not sure about specialists :)))))
          2. kalibr
            kalibr 18 September 2020 09: 18
            0
            Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
            I'm not sure about specialists :)))))

            Well, he, of course, led the townsfolk to even greater horror!
        2. Oprichnik
          Oprichnik 22 September 2020 18: 32
          0
          And don't forget to hit the chemical plants! When burning there, such compounds are formed that OM is not needed.
      3. g1washntwn
        g1washntwn 17 September 2020 13: 16
        +3
        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        The Japanese began to settle at the site of nuclear explosions after a couple of years

        And your home address in Chelyabinsk, sorry, not at the Mayak burial ground? Why?
        Moreover, unlike the mass foci that will have no one to rake for a very long time, yours or the Chernobyl-Fukushima burial grounds were sculpted, straining the whole country.
        Are you talking about "intermediate states" again? Well, yes, there is black - the complete absence of radiation, there is white - the visible spectrum of all colors of the rainbow. But there are radiation that is not visible to the eye and to reason about something only by what you see is to knowingly limit yourself in achieving the correct answers. Clear? Not very spacious? If you've been to Vietnam and haven't seen how the children of the victims of agent orange are still born, go and see. An acquaintance of mine was younger than me, he fell under the distribution much weaker than Mayak'57. As a result, I go to his grave, and his newly-born daughter is disabled. Therefore, there is no need to reassure me, continue to lower the threshold for the use of nuclear weapons further.
        1. Narak-zempo
          Narak-zempo 20 September 2020 23: 42
          0
          Quote: g1washntwn
          continue to lower the threshold for the use of nuclear weapons further

          Do you see nuclear weapons as Chekhov's gun or as Bondarchuk's gun?
      4. garri-lin
        garri-lin 17 September 2020 16: 31
        +3
        Chernobyl was shut up by the whole country. From a very small blowout. Dolbani there is 50 kilotons in the immediate vicinity so that the domes go cracked and the khan is full. And there is no one to fix it. And there is no one to put graphite into the scorched core. To slow down the reaction. The Chernobyl accident is a very small disaster. Compared to the worst scenario. Infection with nuclear weapons will be minimal. Infection from the destruction of nuclear power plants and chemical plants will be much greater. Hundreds of times more
        1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
          Andrei from Chelyabinsk 18 September 2020 08: 58
          0
          Quote: garri-lin
          Chernobyl was shut up by the whole country. From a very small blowout.

          I don't know what a small release for you - the reactor was almost completely destroyed in Chernobyl. And the release of radioactive substances took place. By the way, I strongly doubt that in the event of a nuclear warhead strike, it will be larger - a full-fledged explosion simply annihilates the bulk of the radioactive materials.
        2. garri-lin
          garri-lin 18 September 2020 09: 33
          +1
          Only antimatter can annihilate. Everything else is only transformed from one state to another. If you look at the accident in Chernobyl, the simplest description would be: water boiled, steam broke the hull. And the same ferry scattered radioactive materials. Well, this is a very primitive description. But true. Most of the fuel remained in the reactor. And what will happen if the reactor is in the zone of destruction of nuclear weapons. 1, the destruction of the hull will be greater. 2. Part of the fuel will react with an "explosion". So at the same Chernobyl reactor there was plutonium. He, too, would have participated in the reaction of the explosion. Thus, irradiating and scattering uranium from fuel elements. 3. Nobody would fix anything. It just wouldn't have been there, and the whole infection would have been carried by the wind. 4 radioactive elements change under the influence of radiation. Explosion plus fuel scattered across the territory. It is not known what elements and in what quantities would be synthesized there and how radioactive and toxic they would be. The explosion at the Chernobyl nuclear power plant was a terrible disaster, despite the fact that most of the radioactive elements remained in the reactor and was promptly covered with a sarcophagus. It is scary to imagine what will happen in case of complete destruction. A few reactors? A high-power explosion could well damage several reactors.
        3. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
          Andrei from Chelyabinsk 18 September 2020 09: 51
          0
          Quote: garri-lin
          Only antimatter can annihilate.

          I think you understand what I mean
          Quote: garri-lin
          Some of the fuel will react with an "explosion". So at the same Chernobyl reactor there was plutonium. He, too, would have participated in the reaction of the explosion.

          And this would add a little to the power of the explosion, but not significantly
          Quote: garri-lin
          by irradiating and scattering uranium from fuel elements.

          It would have scattered it for some kilometers in the vicinity, and everything would have a blue flame. But that's all.
        4. garri-lin
          garri-lin 18 September 2020 10: 12
          0
          Wouldn't add much to power. The question is where. Inside the reactor, it's like pushing a firecracker into a bottle. In addition to the external impact, it was also internal, which threw radioactive materials around the district much more strongly. You say that it would be phono and that's it. What's next? Winds and precipitation would carry this radiation further and further. How much land would be contaminated in a year? And in 10 years? The harm from the warhead that hit the nuclear power plant is minuscule compared to the damage from the destruction of the nuclear power plant itself. And how many are those nuclear power plants in the world?
    2. Grim Reaper
      Grim Reaper 18 September 2020 12: 53
      0
      Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
      Quote: garri-lin
      Chernobyl was shut up by the whole country. From a very small blowout.

      I don't know what a small release for you - the reactor was almost completely destroyed in Chernobyl. And the release of radioactive substances took place. By the way, I strongly doubt that in the event of a nuclear warhead strike, it will be larger - a full-fledged explosion simply annihilates the bulk of the radioactive materials.

      Andrey, you are mistaken. If you "bang" the Beloyarsk NPP - it will not seem a little, from Serov to Kustanai. Maybe more.
      On the wind rose area. In the sense that everything will be carried to Siberia, but it will reach Chelyabinsk
      request
    3. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
      Andrei from Chelyabinsk 18 September 2020 13: 12
      -1
      Quote: Grim Reaper
      On the wind rose area.

      So in Chernobyl, the spread was huge, but people were not threatened
  • Narak-zempo
    Narak-zempo 21 September 2020 00: 14
    0
    The point is that Chernobyl alone demanded a significant exertion of the forces of the country, which at that time was the second economy in the world (and became a kind of blow in the stomach that contributed to its collapse, although this is not about actual damage, but informational damage). And when there are ten such Chernobyls, and superimposed on a humanitarian catastrophe caused by the use of nuclear weapons in cities and other infrastructure?
  • Reptiloid
    Reptiloid 17 September 2020 18: 35
    +1
    ...... The Japanese ..... are not extinct ......

    They are not extinct. But somehow I read that, in addition to 4 well-known blood groups available in all countries, since the end of the last century there have been 2 more in Japan. And by 2050, due to mobile phones, computers and microwaves, humanity will have ~~ 25 blood groups, not counting subgroups, Rh factor differences, etc.
    1. Grim Reaper
      Grim Reaper 18 September 2020 13: 07
      +1
      Quote: Reptiloid
      ...... The Japanese ..... are not extinct ......

      They are not extinct. But somehow I read that, in addition to 4 well-known blood groups available in all countries, since the end of the last century there have been 2 more in Japan. And by 2050, due to mobile phones, computers and microwaves, humanity will have ~~ 25 blood groups, not counting subgroups, Rh factor differences, etc.

      In 1996, a colleague of mine needed blood. Well, it seems that I have 2+, he has 2+, but the doctors, after analyzing the blood, said that they would take
      se if absolutely necessary. So we stood .... one of 5 (all 2+) came up. The rest were sent to plasma.
    2. Reptiloid
      Reptiloid 18 September 2020 14: 10
      +2
      Something similar was said by an employee at work., There were also talks about the fact that before someone had a very difficult transfusion with all equal.
      It is worth remembering our Russian and Soviet scientist ------- Alexander Alexandrovich Bogdanov, a Bolshevik, science fiction writer, doctor. It was he who organized the INSTITUTE OF BLOOD TRANSFUSION in 1926. He died in 1928, performing blood transfusions for himself for scientific purposes.
      I read his book "Red Star", but there are others.
  • Oprichnik
    Oprichnik 22 September 2020 18: 21
    0
    And the amerovskie bases - what will we leave? and the local Armed Forces are also our enemies and they need to be multiplied by 0. And to disinfect decayed Europe from LGBT people, liberals, Scientists and other sectarians and right-left-guardians. They are too rotten there - as in the late Roman Empire.
  • sen
    sen 17 September 2020 06: 19
    +4
    It all depends on the scale of the destruction of humanity. If there are few people left, then it is quite possible that a person, having met another person, will be glad that he has found his own kind.
    1. Nikolaevich I
      Nikolaevich I 17 September 2020 08: 33
      +3
      Quote: sen
      If there are few people left, then it is quite possible that a person, having met another person, will be glad that he has found his own kind

      1. Oprichnik
        Oprichnik 22 September 2020 18: 38
        0
        Why shouldn't he be happy - the three-five-day supply of meat came by itself !!!
    2. Narak-zempo
      Narak-zempo 17 September 2020 09: 01
      +3
      Quote: sen
      It all depends on the scale of the destruction of humanity. If there are few people left, then it is quite possible that a person, having met another person, will be glad that he has found his own kind.

      That is unlikely.
      In the Paleolithic, there were even fewer people.
      But every stranger encountered was regarded, firstly, as not quite a man (for many modern tribes, self-name simply means "people"), and secondly, as an enemy or prey.
    3. kalibr
      kalibr 17 September 2020 12: 13
      +1
      Quote: sen
      will be glad that he found his own kind.

      Or he will kill to have a hearty lunch and feed his wife and children!
      1. garri-lin
        garri-lin 17 September 2020 16: 35
        +3
        We do not know what happened during the Paleolithic period. How the proto-people behaved. But judging by the behavior of the animals, there will be non-lethal conflicts over territory, resources and females. (Femki are stumbling right now)
  • parusnik
    parusnik 17 September 2020 06: 23
    +4
    In principle, it's okay, there is a future after a nuclear war. laughing
  • Morris812
    Morris812 17 September 2020 07: 03
    21
    Post-apocalyptic writers tend to forget about production chains. When they are violated, the production of such seemingly elementary things as rubber and plastic products stops. And rubber, for example, "grows old" - dubs and dries up. And the super-advanced post-nuclear gantruck will get up because of the burst pipes of the cooling system, which there is nothing to replace ... But where to get a new battery, they are not at all eternal? And what about such a familiar thing as electricity? Do you have any idea how many different equipment are involved so that you can charge your smartphone from the outlet? And for example a thermal power plant, which generates this electricity. Do you know that if the CHP plant goes up, then it will not be started back? What if the turbine stops abnormally, which no one will forcibly turn, then the shaft will bend from its own weight and temperature difference, and that's it, the whole turbine's skiff?

    And without electricity, we will quickly return to the days of feudalism, scatter through the forests and fields, and grow potatoes. Well, this is who will be lucky, of course, with fertile soil)
    1. g1washntwn
      g1washntwn 17 September 2020 07: 48
      +4
      Quote: Morris812
      And for example a CHP ...

      ... both hydroelectric power plants and nuclear power plants will be destroyed by almost the first warheads.
      Then, once again, the infrastructure will be walked through with a second counter-value impact, and even on coal for a long time no one will be able to work on an industrial scale. So everything that is possible will bend there. I take into account the high level of digitalization of modern energy facilities, it will be difficult to restore even the surviving power plants of old Soviet projects (this is where there is still a relay ACS without any simatic, etc.).
    2. Shopping Mall
      17 September 2020 08: 24
      +1
      Quote: Morris812
      Post-apocalyptic writers tend to forget about production chains. When they are violated, the production of such seemingly elementary things as rubber and plastic products stops. And rubber, for example, "grows old" - dubs and dries up. And the super-advanced post-nuclear gantruck will get up because of the burst pipes of the cooling system, which there is nothing to replace ... But where to get a new battery, they are not at all eternal? And what about such a familiar thing as electricity? Do you have any idea how many different equipment are involved so that you can charge your smartphone from the outlet? And for example a thermal power plant, which generates this electricity. Do you know that if the CHP plant goes up, then it will not be started back? What if the turbine stops abnormally, which no one will forcibly turn, then the shaft will bend from its own weight and temperature difference, and that's it, the whole turbine's skiff?

      And without electricity, we will quickly return to the days of feudalism, scatter through the forests and fields, and grow potatoes. Well, this is who will be lucky, of course, with fertile soil)


      I'm just talking about the emergence of primitive industries such as manufactories and artels in 1900.
      1. Morris812
        Morris812 17 September 2020 11: 24
        +5
        And I'm talking about the fact that even the factories of 1900 had a material base. Where are you going to look for a steam engine now?))) What to make it out of? How do you do it? After all, except for a heap of coals, bellows and a hammer, nothing will work for you. And God forbid, there will still be a blacksmith-reenactor at hand.
        1. Shopping Mall
          17 September 2020 13: 05
          +1
          Quote: Morris812
          And I'm talking about the fact that even the factories of 1900 had a material base. Where are you going to look for a steam engine now?))) What to make it out of? How do you do it? After all, except for a heap of coals, bellows and a hammer, nothing will work for you. And God forbid, there will still be a blacksmith-reenactor at hand.


          Physically, you cannot cover the entire territory of the country. Take any region, how many small towns, villages, dilapidated factories there are. Nevertheless, there will remain coal-fired boilers, water wells, simple mechanical, foundry or chemical production. Yes, the problems will be terrible, but here everything will rest on people.

          of the advantages, it can be noted that the technologies are still developed, and if there are sources of information, then the second time it will be easier from the point of view that it will be clear where to move.
          1. Morris812
            Morris812 18 September 2020 08: 24
            0
            And it is not necessary to cover every city. Take a small town with a metallurgical plant and a boiler house - the external electricity will be cut off, a large railway junction will be covered somewhere and all coal supplies will stop, the plant will stop (and the casting in the furnaces will freeze and cannot be started again).
    3. Sergey Valov
      Sergey Valov 17 September 2020 08: 51
      +4
      It's like that. And after the destruction of electricity sources, irreversible processes will begin. Sewerage will be installed in the cities, which will cause a very quickly massive outflow of the population to the countryside, which is physically unable to accept such a large number of people - there is no housing, food, transport will stop, and there will be no primitive human compassion - we could survive on our own. And the refugees from the cities will not go far - transport will also stop. Epidemics will begin. Without fuel (transport stopped) crops will be reduced to the level of vegetable gardens, with all the consequences. The chances of survival will remain in sparsely populated areas. The lack of fuel sources will lead to the lack of heating that is usual today, and no one has canceled the winter. A mass extinction from the cold will begin. Lack of communication will lead to the fragmentation of territories and the rupture of established economic ties. Plus a host of other factors not mentioned. What kind of wars are there, at most massive fights for food, housing, tools, etc. If any states remain, they will be on the periphery of civilization, and they will quickly begin to degrade.
      1. Morris812
        Morris812 17 September 2020 09: 56
        +2
        Sewerage still works by gravity, but the lack of water supply and heating immediately makes any city unsuitable for life
        1. Sergey Valov
          Sergey Valov 17 September 2020 14: 17
          +4
          It works by gravity in the country, the city needs at least aeration stations and pumps to pump waste for kilometers, and sometimes tens of kilometers. The slope of the sewer pipes for gravity is about 5 - 7 degrees, just imagine how deep you will have to bury with a pipe length of 2 - 3 km. You can't cope here without electricity. As for the water supply and heating, I completely agree.
      2. PSih2097
        PSih2097 17 September 2020 10: 29
        0
        Quote: Sergey Valov
        The chances of survival will remain in sparsely populated areas. Lack of fuel sources will lead to the absence of the heating usual for today, and no one has canceled the winter. A mass extinction from the cold will begin.

        we have no forests anymore, my grandfather said - "only complete"child of asphalt"he will not be able to survive in the forest with a knife, an ax and a shovel," I would also add "victims of the exam" ...
        1. Sergey Valov
          Sergey Valov 17 September 2020 14: 27
          +1
          I agree to survive, but to live is quite another. You need housing, food, clothes, shoes. A knife, an ax and a shovel will help you hold out for one to two weeks in the summer. In winter, possessing only them, you will die in a few days. No one knows how to build a house without nails now. Live in a dugout? Oh well. What to eat? Berries and mushrooms? Try to catch and kill a wild animal with an ax and a knife. I'm not talking about the absence of fire at all. Where can I get it in the forest? And no need for matches / lighters, all this splendor will end in three to four days.
      3. garri-lin
        garri-lin 17 September 2020 16: 41
        0
        If the conflict occurs in a warm season, the mortality from frost will be small. Even high-rise buildings are warm enough. Primitive wood heating will help you survive. Synthetics give a lot of heat during combustion. Firewood plus plastic. Hana parks.
        1. Sergey Valov
          Sergey Valov 17 September 2020 16: 53
          +1
          High-rise buildings, not higher than the fifth floor, will only hold out in rural areas and small towns. In large cities, there is not enough firewood for everyone, plus stoves are needed, plus try to raise firewood without an elevator above the fifth floor. Hana will be not only for parks, but for everything that burns. Let's forget about plumbing and sewerage, where can we get drinking water?
          1. garri-lin
            garri-lin 17 September 2020 17: 27
            0
            I spoke in comments to all parts. 1 uncontaminated air. 2 water. If this problem is solved, then humanity will live on the periphery of cities. And there are buildings. And the forest is not far away. There is nowhere to leave the habitable places. Either it is occupied or it is necessary to build it. And it's impossible to build. It is easier to bring firewood and water into the house. Than building a house in the forest by the river. Plus, it's easier to defend skyscrapers. Than the villages. I can tell you how people survived in Abkhazia during and after the war of 92-93. 9-12-16 floors without electricity and water. For months or even years. Fortunately, there are many friends there. The "civilized" one cannot understand and believe. And people survived it. And since there were many conflicts in the post-Soviet space, people can tell thousands of such stories.
            1. Sergey Valov
              Sergey Valov 17 September 2020 19: 20
              0
              I agree, the differences are in the little things, like Abkhazia is small.
              1. garri-lin
                garri-lin 17 September 2020 19: 46
                +1
                Is the difference small or big? At the end of the conflict, they had a third of the population and no infrastructure. I can introduce you to ginseng, she gave birth to a son in 2004. Lives on the tenth floor. Water in the house is only on the first and even then not always. What is it like to raise a baby with bathing, diapers and everything else and at the same time carry water in buckets to the 10th floor. It's hard but possible. If there is nowhere to go, then a person by his ability to survive becomes almost the most tenacious. By the way, there are many parks in big cities. They will also become sources of firewood and fertile land for vegetable gardens.
                1. Sergey Valov
                  Sergey Valov 17 September 2020 19: 55
                  0
                  Big difference. The problem is the number of people per square kilometer, plus climatic conditions. Imagine Russian cities with a million-plus population. They will die out by definition, for there will be no water, no food, no primitive wood for heating. And the climate will also add, here are not subtropics, as in Abkhazia. The mentality will also affect, there people are nevertheless closer to the earth and are not as pampered as ours, and family ties there are still strong.
                  1. garri-lin
                    garri-lin 17 September 2020 20: 16
                    0
                    The most important thing is how people will react. They will wave their hand or start preparing. There is an example of Leningrad. People were extremely limited in means and at the same time tried to survive. Yes, then many houses had stove heating. But a primitive potbelly stove can now be made from an ordinary urn. Pipes, in order to bring out the window or into the ventilation of the house, are perfectly made from pipes from gutters. If people do not hope for a miracle and will survive with all their might, then many will succeed. By the way, about survival in Leningrad and about the approach to storing firewood, the Strugatskys have. In passing, but very capacious. The mortality rate will be large, but the complete extinction of cities of millionaires is quite possible. Periphery cities are warehouses. Everything will not be destroyed. It will be possible to find products for the first few months. In general, there will be several peaks of mortality after the apocalypse. These are actually the victims of the blows. The next peak is people who have lost the necessary medicines. Diabetics, heart disease. Etc. Then they received a secondary defeat. Irradiated, poisoned with cut water and food.
                    1. Sergey Valov
                      Sergey Valov 17 September 2020 20: 35
                      0
                      I almost completely agree with you. The main problems will arise with water and food, and if everything is clear with water, then food can only be delivered to cities in a centralized manner and distributed in an organized manner. And in the event of the collapse of the state machine, the population in large cities is doomed to death. And one more topic that has not been raised before is the topic of money. In the event of the collapse of the banking system, humanity will most likely return to feudalism.
                      1. garri-lin
                        garri-lin 17 September 2020 21: 09
                        0
                        There is another option about the centralized one. In any society there are people who are focused on helping those around them. If any power disappears with a high degree of probability, a new power will be organized. I think you know how a leader differs from a boss. The leader will appear. Who will try to do at least something. It's one thing to dig a warehouse one by one for the sake of a can of stew. And it's quite different when people are organized. The primitive inventory is of the type of winches. Perhaps even such leaders will be able to get in touch with higher-level authorities, with the military, with the Ministry of Emergencies. And the economy will be created anew. Barter, natural exchange. Equivalent of highly liquid things. Gold, Berkem Al Atomi just had ammunition as money. Perhaps in totalitarian organized societies there will be some equivalent of the type of workdays. Market relations will again become truly market relations. And you can bargain until you are hoarse.
                      2. Sergey Valov
                        Sergey Valov 17 September 2020 21: 33
                        0
                        Of course, someone will lead, a holy place is never empty. But if, instead of the central government, local kings appear, then this is fraught with civil strife, the scenario again rolls towards feudalism. The military, the police, the Ministry of Emergencies will also partially survive, but they have a specific psychology, they are not creators. The big question is how they will behave. As an example, the behavior of the security officials in 1991, they kindly dispersed to the new kings, with rare exceptions. But they can also seize power. By the way, under feudalism, market relations are the norm.
                      3. garri-lin
                        garri-lin 17 September 2020 21: 43
                        0
                        Well, there will be Tsarek or there will be a normal leader, it will not be immediately clear. This will open with a temporary. Plus the power spoils. An ordinary good person in power may well become a tyrant after a while. The military or, God forbid, the police may not come to power. But a person from the Ministry of Emergencies can. It will simply be necessary to constantly solve those very Emergencies and the crowd will constantly get used to the fact that this Rescuer is the most experienced. With good connections. We will all obey him. The first time in power will be the person bringing the maximum benefit. Then politics will start. By the way, I do not see anything wrong with the Feudal system. A well-defined vertical of power. In difficult situations, this is the optimal tuning.
                      4. Sergey Valov
                        Sergey Valov 17 September 2020 22: 07
                        0
                        The military and the police have real power, they may well use it, there are plenty of examples. As for the Emergencies Ministry, I am very skeptical about the idea that more or less serious equipment will remain operational after a global nuclear war. There will be no electricity, no fuel, no spare parts. The main role will be played by strength, organizational skills, lack of principle, personal will, etc.
                      5. garri-lin
                        garri-lin 17 September 2020 22: 45
                        0
                        There are a lot of techniques. Winter / summer is enough for one season. Restore, collect one from two. Biodiesel. Moonshine as fuel. There will be a technique for very necessary purposes. Little but it will be.
                        Power is a two-way thing. The military or the police will be able to command through force. But if the people are against such a power will not last long. Organizational skills and personal will yes. I don’t know lack of principle. People who suffer a lot are sensitive to injustice. A liar and a scoundrel cannot earn respect.
  • Narak-zempo
    Narak-zempo 17 September 2020 09: 06
    +2
    The dynamo is a technology of the second half of the XNUMXth century. At the first CHP plants, piston steam engines were quite spinning them (in general, the technology of the end of the XNUMXth century), and there are also windmills and water wheels, which do not require any industry, only a carpenter and a blacksmith.
    1. Sergey Valov
      Sergey Valov 17 September 2020 10: 02
      +2
      The dynamo is not a technology, but a technique. You can turn the shaft with anything, even by hand, the only question is efficiency. On water wheels it is possible to make only products not younger than the 18th century, and windmills and in general did not move further than mills.
      1. PSih2097
        PSih2097 17 September 2020 10: 32
        0
        Quote: Sergey Valov
        Water wheels can only make products that are no younger than the 18th century,

        come on...
      2. Alexey RA
        Alexey RA 17 September 2020 12: 14
        0
        Quote: Sergey Valov
        Water wheels can only make products that are no younger than the 18th century,

        The Sestroretsk Arms Factory worked on water wheels even in 1913.
        One of the tasks was to install new engines and set up a power plant instead of water wheels (“there was not enough water already in 1913”) so that there was no need to stop or reduce work twice a year due to lack of water in the “spill”.
        © Polikarpov
        1. Sergey Valov
          Sergey Valov 17 September 2020 14: 31
          +2
          My first boss told me in the early 80s that he saw somewhere in the Urals at a large factory a machine powered by a water wheel. So what? This is a single curious case. Try to organize mass production all over the country in this way.
          1. Alexey RA
            Alexey RA 17 September 2020 16: 21
            0
            Quote: Sergey Valov
            So what? This is a single curious case. Try to organize mass production all over the country in this way.

            Sestroretsk armory factory - this is not an isolated case, but just an example of the possibility of organizing the mass production of weapons of the early twentieth century on machines driven by water wheels. Which refutes the original thesis:
            Quote: Sergey Valov
            Water wheels can only manufacture products that are at least 18th century.
            1. Sergey Valov
              Sergey Valov 17 September 2020 16: 56
              +1
              If this is not an isolated case, then I think it will not be difficult for you to give more similar examples and explain why such drives have not found further use.
              1. Alexey RA
                Alexey RA 17 September 2020 17: 07
                0
                Quote: Sergey Valov
                If this is not an isolated case, then I think it will not be difficult for you to give more similar examples and explain why such drives have not found further use.

                Because in the normal world there are normal sources of energy.
                But we are talking about postap. And there will be strained with electricity. But there will be water.
                Above on the branch, it was argued that the "water drive" would make it possible to manufacture products at least the 18th century. I refuted this very thesis, citing as an example a plant that had a water drive for machine tools and produced weapons of the early twentieth century.
                1. Sergey Valov
                  Sergey Valov 17 September 2020 19: 33
                  +1
                  For a water drive, there is not enough water available, many other conditions are needed - a fast flow, low banks, the availability of qualified personnel, the availability of communication routes, the availability of raw materials, the availability of ready-made machines, etc. All together will it be? Plus, you will need machines and equipment that will not work from water - forging and pressing equipment, welding, foundry, galvanic ... How do you propose to solve the problem with the lighting of workshops? How to deal with high-alloy steels, refractory metals, how to solve the problem of measuring tools and standardization ... You can go on for a long time.
                  1. Taxidruiver
                    Taxidruiver 18 September 2020 09: 15
                    0
                    The whole of Western Europe is seeded with wind turbines and there are a lot of them, so it means to hammer with pinpoint strikes, so there will be no missiles ...
                    1. Sergey Valov
                      Sergey Valov 18 September 2020 09: 55
                      0
                      The wind turbine is good for supplying power to private homes in rural areas. To provide electricity to cities and industrial enterprises, NETWORKS will be required, and with their destruction, electricity will not go further than the wind turbine itself. I am already silent about spare parts for wind turbines, about the fact that they are massively blown away by a shock wave, about the fact that wind turbines are not economical everywhere.
      3. Narak-zempo
        Narak-zempo 18 September 2020 15: 20
        0
        Quote: Sergey Valov
        Dynamo is not technology, but technology

        A technique for the manufacture of which the technological level of the mid-XNUMXth century is sufficient.
        Quote: Sergey Valov
        On water wheels, only products that are not younger than the 18th century can be made, and windmills and in general did not move further than mills.

        A water wheel and a dynamo can be used to make a mini-hydroelectric power station, sufficient to power a small workshop. As well as a pair of windmills.
  • Grim Reaper
    Grim Reaper 18 September 2020 13: 28
    0
    Quote: Morris812
    Do you know that if the CHP plant goes up, then it will not be started back?

    Yes true? Not a blast furnace that we learned to run
    AFTER IDLE.
    And we, in the ECB, have one CHP, which operates on one generator in the summer and three in the winter. (However, this is minuscule. Microdistrict consumption, but that's why they built it)
  • abrakadabre
    abrakadabre 1 November 2020 15: 17
    0
    Well, who's lucky, of course, with fertile soil)
    And a supply of seeds. In our time, this is also a very, very not idle question. In the west, so generally. All sorts of Monsants planted local agriculture on hybridized crops that either do not give full-fledged seeds at all, or degeneration occurs in just a few generations. This is done on purpose so that the seeds are bought only from them. So far, our situation with this is not so bad.
  • Doctor
    Doctor 17 September 2020 07: 14
    0
    The author, in his forecasts, does not take into account the presence of a couple of state bodies in Russia.

    1. Main Directorate of Special Programs of the President of the Russian Federation
    2. Federal Agency for State Reserves of the Russian Federation
    1. Shopping Mall
      17 September 2020 08: 25
      +2
      Quote: Arzt
      The author, in his forecasts, does not take into account the presence of a couple of state bodies in Russia.

      1. Main Directorate of Special Programs of the President of the Russian Federation
      2. Federal Agency for State Reserves of the Russian Federation


      1. If they survive the impact (in the sense as integral structures).
      2. If their warehouses survive, at least partially.
      1. Doctor
        Doctor 17 September 2020 08: 32
        +2
        1. If they survive the impact (in the sense as integral structures).
        2. If their warehouses survive, at least partially.

        It was built so that it would survive. Even with the number and power of warheads that were before.

        https://lifehacker.ru/pro-spusk-v-xranilishhe/

        And now everything is going down, the concept has changed.
        1. Shopping Mall
          17 September 2020 09: 02
          +3
          Quote: Arzt
          https://lifehacker.ru/pro-spusk-v-xranilishhe/


          Thank you interesting link. As correctly written in the first commentary on the link, these are mines of a gypsum plant in Novomoskovsk, Tula region.

          I wanted to get there, but I didn't have enough time. As far as I know, some of them seem to be used for the Federal Reserve, but not all, some are abandoned.

          Somewhere on the net there is a report on the visitors of these "quarries". They brought an electric scooter with them, and for half an hour rode the railway underground, but they did not reach the end of it, they had to return, the battery was half discharged.
          1. Alexey RA
            Alexey RA 17 September 2020 12: 16
            +2
            Quote: AVM
            Somewhere on the net there is a report on the visitors of these "quarries". They brought an electric scooter with them, and for half an hour rode the railway underground, but they did not reach the end of it, they had to return, the battery was half discharged.

            And if they arrived and opened the door at the end of the tunnel ...
        2. Sergey Valov
          Sergey Valov 17 September 2020 09: 04
          +3
          Even if a lot of questions remain immediately, you need transport to transport it to places of non-step accessibility. How long will the sources of autonomous power supply last? Will the link for managing the remaining inventory work? Will the management responsible for these stocks survive? Would warehouse personnel be willing to share their wealth with the surrounding population in the face of chaos?
          1. Doctor
            Doctor 17 September 2020 11: 13
            +2
            Even if a lot of questions remain immediately, you need transport to transport it to places of non-step accessibility.

            In warehouses, not only tushnya ...



            How long will the sources of autonomous power supply last?

            Guess 3 times what these sources are.

            Will the link for managing the remaining inventory work?

            Duplicated 3 times. Different systems.

            Will the management responsible for these stocks survive?


            Governance structures will save first. laughing

            Would warehouse personnel be willing to share their wealth with the surrounding population in the face of chaos?

            After restoring order. It's clear by the cards, but that's enough for 3 years.

            The Finns have 10 years for the entire population. And bunkers, too, at all.
            1. Shopping Mall
              17 September 2020 12: 59
              +1
              Quote: Arzt
              Even if a lot of questions remain immediately, you need transport to transport it to places of non-step accessibility.

              In warehouses, not only tushnya ...

              The question is how much fuel is enough. The point is not even its quantity, but that it gradually loses its properties (diesel is slower). Well, if there are instructions on how to update it, maybe stocks of some additives.

              Quote: Arzt
              How long will the sources of autonomous power supply last?

              Guess 3 times what these sources are.

              Atomic? Generally speaking, it is unlikely that compact reactors are not so compact, if they were, then floating nuclear power plants would have appeared long ago. They need to be maintained and maintained.
              Photovoltaic cells quickly lose their efficiency, low efficiency, + the climate can deteriorate, their efficiency will drop even more.
              Wind turbines are more reliable, or rather not, they are less reliable, but maintainable.
              Both solar cells and wind turbines require buffer batteries with a limited life.

              Quote: Arzt
              Will the link for managing the remaining inventory work?

              Duplicated 3 times. Different systems.

              Will the management responsible for these stocks survive?

              Governance structures will save first. laughing

              The question is how many links in the chain will survive. If only the “head” remains, then it will be difficult to restore the country's governance.

              Quote: Arzt
              The Finns have 10 years for the entire population. And bunkers, too, at all.

              Can you tell me, can you read about it somewhere?
              1. Doctor
                Doctor 17 September 2020 13: 09
                +2
                The question is how much fuel is enough. The point is not even its quantity, but that it gradually loses its properties (diesel is slower). Well, if there are instructions on how to update it, maybe stocks of some additives.

                All life will resume in a few weeks.

                Chernobyl has hammered everyone's brain. A nuclear explosion is completely different in terms of radiation.
                Below I have cited the memoirs of a participant in the Totsk exercises, Lieutenant General S.A. Zelentsov.
                An hour after the explosion, he was at the epicenter. Once again, the last phrases:

                “Directly in the area adjacent to the epicenter of the explosion, the ground was covered with a thin glassy crust of molten sand, crunching and breaking underfoot, like thin ice on spring puddles after a night frost. And there were no traces on it except mine.

                I walked calmly over this crust, since the radiometer recorded the level of radioactivity not exceeding 1 R / h. "
                1. Doctor
                  Doctor 17 September 2020 13: 18
                  +1
                  Atomic? Generally speaking, it is unlikely that compact reactors are not so compact, if they were, then floating nuclear power plants would have appeared long ago. They need to be maintained and maintained.
                  Photovoltaic cells quickly lose their efficiency, low efficiency, + the climate can deteriorate, their efficiency will drop even more.
                  Wind turbines are more reliable, or rather not, they are less reliable, but maintainable.
                  Both solar cells and wind turbines require buffer batteries with a limited life.

                  What are the wind turbines at a depth of 150 meters? laughing

                  Have you been to the Polytechnic Museum? This is 1965. wink

                  Model "Nuclear power plant" Arbus-2 ". Scale 1:20


              2. Doctor
                Doctor 17 September 2020 13: 23
                +2
                Can you tell me, can you read about it somewhere?

                You can even see:

              3. garri-lin
                garri-lin 17 September 2020 16: 52
                0
                By the way, about the loss of gasoline properties. I personally used 20 gasoline !!! Twenty !!!! years lying in a canister in the underground. VAZ 2106 car. 83 years old. It was poured into the tank with the remainder of a couple of liters. I just did not notice the difference in traction. The car was driving quietly with a large load. Gasoline was "mothballed" in 89 or 90.
            2. Sergey Valov
              Sergey Valov 17 September 2020 14: 32
              +1
              Blessed is he who believes.
              1. Doctor
                Doctor 17 September 2020 14: 41
                0
                Blessed is he who believes.

                Clean settlement. Otherwise, they would not have invested big money in it.

                The logic is simple.
                Russia will not wage a limited nuclear war against Finland; if necessary, it will try to do with conventional weapons.

                These shelters were built in the event of the Third World War, when the superpowers clash. In this case, we will not be for Finland.

                Their underground cities are conceived to survive the nuclear winter.
        3. g1washntwn
          g1washntwn 17 September 2020 09: 06
          +2
          Quote: Arzt
          It was built so that it would survive.

          Well, I don’t know ... during the restructuring, the warehouse was stolen for sale and consumption in just a couple of weeks. As if writing off overdue stocks, and the stew, judging by the bank that had been in my hand personally, could have been stored for more than 10 years. The starving population will first throw themselves at the machine guns of the cordon, and then organized gangs. Farms in the United States will also simply be trampled underfoot. And how long will they last even for a baht? The stock is good, but it is not permanent. The main thing is the possibility of restoring the chains of production and agriculture
          1. kalibr
            kalibr 17 September 2020 18: 03
            0
            Robert Merle has a great novel on the subject, Malleville.
        4. Blackmokona
          Blackmokona 17 September 2020 09: 22
          -2
          All these reserves for one bite.
          It is beautiful to show what kind of shelf realties are to the horizon. But after turning on mathematics and trying to feed a couple of million with it, then everything becomes very sad
          1. garri-lin
            garri-lin 17 September 2020 09: 54
            +1
            A person needs just over half a ton of food a year. A million people are half a million tons. The question is whether that million will be. Will there be enough.
            1. The comment was deleted.
        5. Narak-zempo
          Narak-zempo 18 September 2020 15: 29
          0
          Quote: Arzt
          It was built so that it would survive. Even with the number and power of warheads that were before.

          Well, a storage facility can protect stocks from a nuclear explosion.
          And from the workers of this very store - hardly.
          No wonder the anthem of "Rosrezerv" is sung:
          "Let such times pass us by
          When would the reserve be in demand. "
          They probably know what they are singing about.
          Where is the reserve? - And the mice ate laughing laughing laughing
      2. PSih2097
        PSih2097 17 September 2020 10: 38
        0
        Quote: AVM
        If their warehouses survive, at least partially.

        Believe me, at a similar warehouse I received ammunition for a part, so that it would not even be destroyed, but just to damage it, I need a BB of at least 5Mt, which no one in their right mind will do to the warehouse ...
        1. Shopping Mall
          17 September 2020 12: 48
          +1
          Quote: PSih2097
          Quote: AVM
          If their warehouses survive, at least partially.

          Believe me, at a similar warehouse I received ammunition for a part, so that it would not even be destroyed, but just to damage it, I need a BB of at least 5Mt, which no one in their right mind will do to the warehouse ...


          I would like to believe, but again there are nuances - increasing the probability of protected objects is carried out in two ways:
          1. Increased penetration of ammunition into the ground - the so-called. bunker-proof ammunition. What capabilities they have now I will not say, but in the middle of the last century, such ammunition could enter 50 meters into the ground, and then detonate.
          2. Increased accuracy. With a KVO of 20-30 meters, nuclear weapons strike protected ICBM mines. They are, of course, shallow, but still.

          I would suggest this: some of the warehouses will be destroyed, some will be damaged (will there be access to them?), Some will remain intact. But I can't say how many things and in what proportion, for this you need access to the relevant information.
          1. garri-lin
            garri-lin 17 September 2020 17: 02
            +1
            Warehouses in mined mines are often done. There, up to the first tabs, hundreds of meters deep. Several trunks with lifters. Several ventilation rooms. A single charge, even several megatons and even deeply buried, will not cope. The main problem is to ensure the operation of compressor and ventilation units. Without ventilation, there is a high probability of food spoilage from dampness.
  • Kot_Kuzya
    Kot_Kuzya 17 September 2020 07: 18
    0
    Currently, in tropical Africa, they still live in post-apocalypse conditions, do you think, because of the good life of the barmaley, that's why they ride in jeeps-carts, and don't ride on normal armored personnel carriers? Well, for a skiff and postap to come in all countries, it is impossible, the world elite will not allow this.
    1. 2 Level Advisor
      2 Level Advisor 17 September 2020 08: 43
      +4
      By the way, just in Africa, the campaign will not change much, there will be no blows on them ... these are the leaders of civilization - they will roll back 200 years ago ... and in Africa and now there are many places where they plow / sow on buffaloes without electricity ... and about the fact that everyone will die .. pay attention to Hiroshima from Nagosaki - where it is normal and for a long time (more than 50 years) - everyone lives as usual, they began to restore the city after 5 years .. Yes, even in the Chernobyl ZO, already the overwhelming part of the territory inhabited .. Yes, many will die, perhaps most .. but very many will remain .. no need to overestimate the power of nuclear weapons .. but as well as underestimate too ..
      1. Kot_Kuzya
        Kot_Kuzya 17 September 2020 09: 04
        -1
        but about the fact that everyone will die .. pay attention to Hiroshima from Nagosaki - where it is normal and for a long time (more than 50 years) - everyone lives as usual, to restore the city, after 5 years they began.

        I would not compare the first American atomic bombs with a capacity of 15-20 Kt and modern nuclear bombs with a capacity of 1 Mt and more, the difference between them is about 100 times, it's like comparing a projectile of a 30-mm cannon weighing 400 g, and a 152-mm howitzer shell weighing 43 kg. In heavy ICBMs, the total power of the warheads can reach the power of the Tsar Bomb.
        1. 2 Level Advisor
          2 Level Advisor 17 September 2020 09: 18
          +1
          Do not forget that although 152 mm is 50 times more powerful, say 76 mm, but the funnel will not have 50 meters, instead of 1 meter .. power dissipates quite quickly ...
          from the fact that within a radius of not 5 km, but 20 km will blow everything - in principle, the picture of the world 200 km from the explosion will not change .. and there will be even less radiation - the efficiency is higher now ..
          but all ICBM warheads do not hit one target, so you can and in general everything that is in one point - then maybe and really the animal will come fur ..
          Anyway, nuclear weapons are a "point" weapon with a very "large" point (factory, city, etc.) .. and not biological, say, which can mow down the whole country ..
          1. Kot_Kuzya
            Kot_Kuzya 17 September 2020 09: 29
            0
            Have you heard about the firestorm as a result of carpet bombing? Such storms destroyed millions of cities, while the total yield of the bombs dropped was only a few kilotons. And here, over a vast territory, hundreds of warheads with a capacity of one megaton each will explode. Yes, from these explosions, everything will be burned up for millions of square kilometers by continuous fires.
            1. 2 Level Advisor
              2 Level Advisor 17 September 2020 09: 39
              +4
              so you are talking about the same thing .. then no one uses nuclear weapons .. neither there are so many of them, nor any carriers .. maybe you do not know, but the RADIUS of destruction and murder in Hiroshima was 5 km, when using modern, medium power Warhead .. well, let the radius of 15 km (diameter 30) .. how you, with such parameters, the entire territory of the same USA "sow"? we take a square of 300x300 km, you will need 100 pieces of BGs to create, as you say, a "fire storm", otherwise there is no way .. talking about radiation, about wind and rain, do not forget ... and so on. there is a program for calculating a nuclear explosion, later I will throw off the link - look ..
              1. Kot_Kuzya
                Kot_Kuzya 17 September 2020 09: 47
                0
                In the United States, on the east coast, large cities are located close to each other.
                Boswash (English Boswash, BosWash; short for Boston (Boston) and Washington (Washington)) is the name of a conventional megalopolis. Sometimes the name Bosnivash is also used (English Bosnywash; Boston, New York, Washington).

                In length, Boswash, which is a chain of cities, stretches for 750 km along the Atlantic coast through Boston, New York, Philadelphia, Baltimore to Washington. This region, which covers only 3% of the country's territory, is home to about 45 million people, which is almost 14% of the US population. About 25% of US industrial enterprises are concentrated here.

                In South Florida and California, the story is the same, if you look at Google maps, the size of the megalopolises in the United States is amazing. So what you want it or not, but the shelling with vigorous loaves will be frequent, and the zone of damage by fires, shock waves and radiation will be continuous and over a huge territory. Even if people in Nagasaki and Hiroshima received fatal burns from a flash of light from a 15-20 Kt bomb from a weak by modern standards, people in Nagasaki and Hiroshima received fatal burns from a flash of light and fires began, then what will happen from a flash of light 100 times more powerful?
                1. 2 Level Advisor
                  2 Level Advisor 17 September 2020 13: 02
                  +1
                  Who is against that? Well I wrote - most likely a huge part of the planet's population will grunt, but there will also be a lot ... from Africa, South America - even mushrooms will not be seen ... and even in the USA - completely - no one in a military sense is interested in agricultural states like Iowa can survive .. like we have many regions ..
              2. PSih2097
                PSih2097 17 September 2020 10: 48
                +2
                Quote: Level 2 Advisor
                nuclear explosion calculation program

                this? Sometimes I play myself, though our missiles are not enough and there is no Voevoda, Sineva and the rest of our strategic nuclear forces ...
                https://nuclearsecrecy.com/nukemap/
                1. 2 Level Advisor
                  2 Level Advisor 17 September 2020 12: 55
                  0
                  dada) she is the most .. i.e. Nuclear weapons are clearly not a toy, but not so much that one million people will be enough for a city.
            2. Narak-zempo
              Narak-zempo 18 September 2020 15: 38
              +1
              Quote: Kot_Kuzya
              Have you heard about the firestorm as a result of carpet bombing? Such storms destroyed millions of cities, while the total yield of the bombs dropped was only a few kilotons. And here, over a vast territory, hundreds of warheads with a capacity of one megaton each will explode. Yes, from these explosions, everything will be burned up for millions of square kilometers by continuous fires.

              For the device of firestorms, bombs were dropped in 2 stages - high-explosive, in order to "open" buildings and open access to well-burning entrails, and then lighters.
              In the case of a nuclear explosion, a flash first occurs, and then a shock wave comes, knocking down the fire.
              In addition, modern urban development is more fire-resistant than German, and even more so Japanese, cities during the war.
          2. garri-lin
            garri-lin 17 September 2020 09: 58
            +1
            Khan's ecology will not come from the warheads themselves, but from their goals. Stupidly fly one warhead to each nuclear power plant in Europe and it will become impossible to live there. Chemical plants. Oil storage facilities.
      2. Shopping Mall
        17 September 2020 09: 05
        +3
        Quote: 2 level advisor
        By the way, just in Africa, the campaign will not change much - there will be no blows on them ..


        There will be. A pair of charges will be sent to development centers for any one and added with bio-weapons. They live in the Middle Ages, they will go back to the Stone Age.

        And if the climate gets colder even by 2-3 degrees, they will die out from the cold like mammoths. Neither vegetation nor people are adapted to the cold there.

        Existing leaders will not allow anyone to rise after themselves, at least they will try.
        1. 2 Level Advisor
          2 Level Advisor 17 September 2020 09: 24
          +3
          Why would anyone hit Africa in Africa? Well, let's say, right now the strike has gone .. Who do you think missiles are aimed at? We have or the Yankees? Who needs them? Or do you think someone will think about Africa after the first massive attacks on its territory, how to give them a boost?
          this is some kind of perversion already .. like mock them, so as not to relax? and what will it be?
          rather, on the contrary, they will gather forces to seize Africa and establish a new empire ..
          In Africa, it’s not bad for it to get colder .. besides, from what I’ve read, this period will be short-lived, and IF the whole atmosphere is covered with dust, which is not very likely ..
          1. Shopping Mall
            17 September 2020 10: 22
            0
            Quote: 2 level advisor
            Why would anyone hit Africa in Africa? Well, let's say, right now the strike has gone .. Who do you think missiles are aimed at? We have or the Yankees? Who needs them? Or do you think someone will think about Africa after the first massive attacks on its territory, how to give them a boost?
            this is some kind of perversion already .. like mock them, so as not to relax? and what will it be?
            rather, on the contrary, they will gather forces to seize Africa and establish a new empire ..
            In Africa, it’s not bad for it to get colder .. besides, from what I’ve read, this period will be short-lived, and IF the whole atmosphere is covered with dust, which is not very likely ..


            Africa is not only all sorts of Uganda, there are also relatively developed countries. The same South Africa at one time created nuclear weapons. Now they have, of course, gone down - they treat AIDS with laundry soap), but still there will be centers of power and production worthy of nuclear weapons.
          2. PSih2097
            PSih2097 17 September 2020 10: 43
            0
            Quote: Level 2 Advisor
            and then IF the whole atmosphere is covered with dust, which is not very likely ..

            will not tighten, but if you hit targets like the "yellow stone", then everyone ... "Karachun, we have arrived."
        2. Krasnodar
          Krasnodar 17 September 2020 11: 55
          +2
          Quote: AVM


          There will be. A pair of charges will be sent to development centers for any one and added with bio-weapons. They live in the Middle Ages, they will go back to the Stone Age.

          And if the climate gets colder even by 2-3 degrees, they will die out from the cold like mammoths. Neither vegetation nor people are adapted to the cold there.

          Existing leaders will not allow anyone to rise after themselves, at least they will try.

          Will not. The owners of nuclear weapons will keep stocks of Yadren loaves and will "negotiate" on "humanitarian" and other supplies with Africa and Latin America. The planet's university and research institutes will also move there. They will also be supplied with technology for three kopecks. Remnants of the scientific and medical elite emigrate there,
          1. Grim Reaper
            Grim Reaper 18 September 2020 22: 13
            +1
            Quote: Krasnodar
            Quote: AVM


            There will be. A pair of charges will be sent to development centers for any one and added with bio-weapons. They live in the Middle Ages, they will go back to the Stone Age.

            And if the climate gets colder even by 2-3 degrees, they will die out from the cold like mammoths. Neither vegetation nor people are adapted to the cold there.

            Existing leaders will not allow anyone to rise after themselves, at least they will try.

            Will not. The owners of nuclear weapons will keep stocks of Yadren loaves and will "negotiate" on "humanitarian" and other supplies with Africa and Latin America. The planet's university and research institutes will also move there. They will also be supplied with technology for three kopecks. Remnants of the scientific and medical elite emigrate there,

            South America is quite an option. If really ...
            1. Krasnodar
              Krasnodar 18 September 2020 22: 25
              0
              For the surviving American Canadians, of course. For Europe - Africa. It also seems to me that Portugal will not suffer)).
      3. garri-lin
        garri-lin 17 September 2020 09: 35
        +2
        If only the Chernobyl nuclear power plant was not covered with a sarcophagus. If the Liquidators hadn't worked. That third of Ukraine, half of Belarus and a quarter of Europe would shine like a New Year tree. And after nuclear strikes on nuclear power plants, no one will eliminate anything.
        1. Shopping Mall
          17 September 2020 10: 33
          0
          Quote: garri-lin
          If only the Chernobyl nuclear power plant was not covered with a sarcophagus. If the Liquidators hadn't worked. That third of Ukraine, half of Belarus and a quarter of Europe would shine like a New Year tree. And after nuclear strikes on nuclear power plants, no one will eliminate anything.


          Exactly. By the way, a very good series "Chernobyl", although filmed in the West, conveys the atmosphere of the USSR well. "Cranberry" is not enough, except that there is a lot of vodka in the film, but without it, you can't go anywhere ...

          The question is how the activity of radioactive substances will change, whether some of the long-lived isotopes will decay, and what it will decay into - it can only be worse, relatively short-lived, but much more strongly radiated, will appear. Will the core melt or scatter? Etc.
          1. garri-lin
            garri-lin 17 September 2020 10: 50
            +1
            Judging by the events at the Chernobyl nuclear power plant, the core may "melt" deep into the earth. Thus, poisoning the groundwater. There are many options. And I think there will be all the options at each nuclear power plant.
  • V1er
    V1er 17 September 2020 07: 45
    +2
    When they write about the post-nuclear world, many people forget the obvious serious things. Will the specialists stay? A modern man not always can even plant potatoes or survive in the forest, take care of himself. Homes are built by builders, food is obtained by farmers with the help of equipment, electricity from the station, water from the water supply, parts from the factory. When all this is gone, how will people get it? A builder, for example, does not replace a farmer, but a farmer does not replace a worker. Therefore, even if a certain percentage of smart people survive and organize themselves, this will not be enough. Basically, humanity will fall into a primitive age, and then 90% will simply die out from hunger and cold, the war for food and the remnants of civilization.
    1. Doctor
      Doctor 17 September 2020 08: 43
      +1
      When they write about the post-nuclear world, many people forget the obvious serious things. Will the specialists stay?

      Will stay. All those you need in the list (although not everyone knows this themselves laughing ), the list is constantly updated.
      Those who are supposed to understand that this is the main reserve.
    2. garri-lin
      garri-lin 17 September 2020 09: 39
      +4
      Figs with them with specialist farmers. Where will those farmers get the seeds? Most of the seeds on the market are hybrids. In the 2nd generation, the crop is not given. Verified. The most important specialty will be Agronomists breeders.
    3. alstr
      alstr 17 September 2020 15: 43
      +2
      Even more so. A specialist (good specialist) from his field cannot now recreate the entire production chain to create the final product.
      For example, we have a cool super duper hand engineer who can grind ANY detail by hand and even design something himself. And this is still a rarity in our time.
      But in order to recreate the engine, alas, this is not enough. You need to know at least the composition of materials (metal) and casting technology (there are also many subtleties here).
      At the beginning of the last century, there was no such narrow specialization.
      Those. in order to recreate even the technologies of the beginning of the last century, now an order of magnitude more specialists are required than it was during their initial implementation.

      And here is the most ambush. Almost all more or less normal specialists now live in big cities or near them. Those. will fall under a nuclear strike guaranteed.
      And those who will survive will be scattered across several small settlements and it is not a fact that they can be collected in one place.
  • g1washntwn
    g1washntwn 17 September 2020 07: 58
    +1
    The mad have other plans. What will happen there in the burnt territories does not bother them much, if only they do not recover. They already have bases, expeditionary forces and various AUGs to colonize "ecologically clean" and wealthy regions after. Therefore, seditious thoughts about the probability of victory are wandering in their heads. The return of production by Trump back to America pleases the carriers of such plans, but it is indirectly connected, the Chinese do not agree so simply on the reservation. But South America - why not the New World of the second version? For Indians - bullets and blankets with smallpox, resources and living space for themselves. From there, you can slow down the development of devastated enemy territories as much as you like. One thing stands in the way - and suddenly there, in spite of the moment of waiting, some Poseidons will reach?
  • Daniil Konovalenko
    Daniil Konovalenko 17 September 2020 08: 01
    +5
    The author probably dug himself a bunker and writes similar articles from there. smile
    1. uav80
      uav80 17 September 2020 08: 18
      10
      No, he just watched "Mad Max: Fury Road" yesterday on RenTV ...
      1. Daniil Konovalenko
        Daniil Konovalenko 17 September 2020 08: 40
        +5
        I read the comments, they are all such optimists smile
      2. Krasnodar
        Krasnodar 17 September 2020 12: 03
        +2
        With the one-armed Sherlize Theron? )))
  • bairat
    bairat 17 September 2020 08: 25
    +2
    I disagree about the copper deficit. All of it, mined since Sumerian times, with rare exceptions, is in modern circulation. In the post-nuclear world, motors and transformers will be picked for a hundred years, it would be for what.
    On the arrow. When the factory cartridges run out, we will return (come back) to black powder. Crossbows / bows will also find use. Homemade pneumatics from all kinds of pipes and springs.
    1. Doctor
      Doctor 17 September 2020 08: 45
      +1
      On the arrow. When the factory cartridges run out, we will return (come back) to black powder. Crossbows / bows will also find use.

      Don't worry, 20 million only Kalash in warehouses. Half of them are deep. Enough for everyone.
      Lucky. wink
      1. bairat
        bairat 17 September 2020 11: 06
        +2
        Kalash that is, and smooth too, that's the question with cartridges. And so, I do not harbor any special illusions, as soon as the power goes home to confiscate.
        1. Doctor
          Doctor 17 September 2020 12: 19
          0
          Kalash that is, and smooth too, that's the question with cartridges. And so, I do not harbor any special illusions, as soon as the power goes home to confiscate.

          On the contrary. Will be issued at the military registration and enlistment office. laughing
      2. Grim Reaper
        Grim Reaper 18 September 2020 21: 15
        0
        Quote: Arzt
        On the arrow. When the factory cartridges run out, we will return (come back) to black powder. Crossbows / bows will also find use.

        Don't worry, 20 million only Kalash in warehouses. Half of them are deep. Enough for everyone.
        Lucky. wink

        lucky enough to find a warehouse. bully
    2. Kot_Kuzya
      Kot_Kuzya 17 September 2020 09: 08
      0
      Quote: bairat
      On the arrow. When the factory cartridges run out, we will return (come back) to black powder. Crossbows / bows will also find use. Homemade pneumatics from all kinds of pipes and springs.

      Well, to such an extent, humanity does not degrade. Already in the middle of 19, technology made it possible to massively produce unitary cartridges with a metal sleeve, loaded with smokeless powder.
      1. Shopping Mall
        17 September 2020 10: 37
        +1
        Quote: Kot_Kuzya
        Quote: bairat
        On the arrow. When the factory cartridges run out, we will return (come back) to black powder. Crossbows / bows will also find use. Homemade pneumatics from all kinds of pipes and springs.

        Well, to such an extent, humanity does not degrade. Already in the middle of 19, technology made it possible to massively produce unitary cartridges with a metal sleeve, loaded with smokeless powder.


        Somewhere in remote settlements, it may even reach crossbows, and yes, the production of cartridges will gradually be established. The main value is technical libraries with paper books, not only on technology, but also on agriculture, medicine, etc.
        1. Kot_Kuzya
          Kot_Kuzya 17 September 2020 10: 43
          -1
          So now, in remote areas, they still independently equip cartridges, especially cartridges for smooth-bore weapons. Crossbows would be used, only in Russia crossbows are prohibited for use in hunting, they can only be used for shooting at objects in competitions and as recreational shooting.
        2. Grim Reaper
          Grim Reaper 18 September 2020 21: 20
          0
          Quote: AVM
          Quote: Kot_Kuzya
          Quote: bairat
          On the arrow. When the factory cartridges run out, we will return (come back) to black powder. Crossbows / bows will also find use. Homemade pneumatics from all kinds of pipes and springs.

          Well, to such an extent, humanity does not degrade. Already in the middle of 19, technology made it possible to massively produce unitary cartridges with a metal sleeve, loaded with smokeless powder.


          Somewhere in remote settlements, it may even reach crossbows, and yes, the production of cartridges will gradually be established. The main value is technical libraries with paper books, not only on technology, but also on agriculture, medicine, etc.

          That's just a question. Will the survivors preserve knowledge, or will they limit themselves to the banal: "female, zhrachka, power"?
      2. bairat
        bairat 17 September 2020 11: 10
        +1
        If someone can run a chemical. wood-fired manufactories, for the production of components, then yes. Again, raw materials in the 19th century could be dug up with a shovel.
    3. Sergey Valov
      Sergey Valov 17 September 2020 09: 12
      +3
      Stocks of cartridges may remain in hundreds of millions of pieces, but they will have to be delivered to the consumer, but how? Road and rail transport will definitely stop.
      Black powder still needs to be made, but many people know and know how to do it? And what about the production capacity for this? Where can I get a rifle for black powder? How to start its production in the absence of energy sources, specialists, deferred economic ties, materials?
      1. PSih2097
        PSih2097 17 September 2020 11: 02
        0
        Quote: Sergey Valov
        Road and rail transport will definitely stop.

        where does the railway get up from, steam locomotives still exist, not all have yet been handed over to the metal, it is also not a problem to repair the railway track
        Quote: Sergey Valov
        Black powder still needs to be made, but many people know and know how to do it?

        well, whoever did not serve in the army, yes, it will be difficult, but not impossible ...
        1. Shopping Mall
          17 September 2020 11: 56
          0
          Quote: PSih2097
          Quote: Sergey Valov
          Road and rail transport will definitely stop.

          where does the railway get up from, steam locomotives still exist, not all have yet been handed over for metal ...


          Unfortunately, almost everyone passed: https://zen.yandex.ru/media/d1als/poslednee-pristanisce-parovozov-v-rossii-5ce83bc3563a6c00b269656f

          If only something new to do on the model of the rest, so to speak "reverse engineering".
        2. Sergey Valov
          Sergey Valov 17 September 2020 14: 45
          +1
          Railway transport is not only steam / electric locomotives. These are cars, tracks, control systems, bridges, etc. What would all stand worthy to destroy the control system, but it will be destroyed immediately. Speaking of steam locomotives - they are, of course, somewhere. And whether they are in war is a big question. Are there any machinists for them? Have you got the coal / firewood? So don't count on steam locomotives.
          Excellent table, you still give the addresses, where after the apocalypse all this can be obtained. But even after making it, what will you do with it?
      2. Morris812
        Morris812 17 September 2020 11: 12
        0
        You forgot about the capsules, it will be more difficult here than just pouring black powder into the sleeve;)
  • Kolin
    Kolin 17 September 2020 08: 40
    +1
    The courier will revive civilization and defeat the barbarian Legion and plutocrats!
    1. garri-lin
      garri-lin 17 September 2020 09: 41
      +1
      Honorable, you mean. ??
      1. PSih2097
        PSih2097 17 September 2020 11: 04
        +1
        Quote: garri-lin
        Honorable, you mean. ??

        no, this is from this ...
        1. garri-lin
          garri-lin 17 September 2020 11: 24
          +2
          Aaaaaa. Alas, it passed me by. The third part looked pale against the background of Stalker. Therefore, I do not know.
          1. PSih2097
            PSih2097 17 September 2020 11: 25
            +2
            Quote: garri-lin
            Aaaaaa. Alas, it passed me by. The third part looked pale against the background of Stalker. Therefore, I do not know.

            Well, it's like an add-on to the third folch, but in the end it was released as a separate game.
            1. Grim Reaper
              Grim Reaper 18 September 2020 21: 38
              0
              Quote: PSih2097
              Quote: garri-lin
              Aaaaaa. Alas, it passed me by. The third part looked pale against the background of Stalker. Therefore, I do not know.

              Well, it's like an add-on to the third folch, but in the end it was released as a separate game.

              so interesting to read adherents of shooters. Boys! Go to the stealth club. Go to paintball. It clears the brain
              Ps. Yes, there were cases when, at the shooting range, a shot from Glock17 caused increased fearfulness in half. Not everything is as rosy as from sofas
    2. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 17 September 2020 12: 21
      0
      Quote: Kolin
      The courier will revive civilization and defeat the barbarian Legion and plutocrats!

      Alas, the courier decided to take the shortcut to New Vegas - and he was devoured by the claws of death. smile
  • ved_med12
    ved_med12 17 September 2020 08: 40
    +3
    Even with the worst scenario of a nuclear war, entire countries and even possibly continents with advanced economies will remain intact!
    I think at least Australia and South America will not be affected And these are, in fact, self-sufficient regions ...
    Well, yes, there will be no electronics and Internet (for a while, maybe a decade at most) But the Stone Age, they are definitely not threatened!
    1. Kot_Kuzya
      Kot_Kuzya 17 September 2020 09: 10
      +1
      Australia is a British dominion, so I am confident that Russian ICBMs are also targeting Sydney, Melbourne and Brisbane.
    2. Shopping Mall
      17 September 2020 09: 23
      +1
      Quote: ved_med12
      Even with the worst scenario of a nuclear war, entire countries and even possibly continents with advanced economies will remain intact!
      I think at least Australia and South America will not be affected And these are, in fact, self-sufficient regions ...
      Well, yes, there will be no electronics and Internet (for a while, maybe a decade at most) But the Stone Age, they are definitely not threatened!


      Who will let them stay intact? In the global "turmoil" everyone will get it. China 100% in Australia shies away, and we and the United States in general for everyone who has enough.

      Although, the fact that their position is likely to be better is indisputable. As regards Australia, the only question of how it is with resources, especially with gas and oil, has not studied this issue.
      1. ved_med12
        ved_med12 17 September 2020 09: 26
        0
        I agree, at the expense of China!
      2. Free wind
        Free wind 17 September 2020 10: 42
        +4
        Australia is in second or third place after Qatar for the production of LNG. gas deposits are large.
        1. Shopping Mall
          17 September 2020 11: 54
          0
          Quote: Free Wind
          Australia is in second or third place after Qatar for the production of LNG. gas deposits are large.


          There are two types of plants in this country - offshore deposits on the shelf and extraction of methane from coal beds. Coal bed methane production is similar to shale gas production - there is a lot of drilling required because well productivity is low.

          Both the first and second methods of mining will be limited after the war, especially since large open pit mines may be one of the primary targets for nuclear weapons. And building an offshore drilling platform in the face of industry collapse is also challenging.
  • Sergey Averchenkov
    Sergey Averchenkov 17 September 2020 08: 57
    -1
    Some kind of garbage ... Okay, Man settled in the most convenient and fertile places on the planet and big cities in the same place - they are guaranteed to be hit. Where are the suitable places to stay? Deserts? Far North? The mountains? Which of us will survive in Antarctica? No one. What are we going to eat? Each other? After all, you can't grow bread there ... So the remaining population will be guaranteed to decrease. Now tell me how many individuals do you need to preserve the species? I'm not a zoologist - I don't know. Will we die out / won't we die out?
    1. Doctor
      Doctor 17 September 2020 09: 29
      +3
      Where are the suitable places to stay? Deserts? Far North?

      Everywhere. In a month. These are short-lived isotopes.

      A memorial sign at the epicenter of Hiroshima.

      1. Sergey Averchenkov
        Sergey Averchenkov 17 September 2020 10: 04
        -2
        I am not a special expert in nuclear physics, and to be honest, I am not an expert at all ... but how do you comment on this - plutonium 239 (half-life 24000 years)?
        1. Doctor
          Doctor 17 September 2020 12: 03
          +1
          I am not a special expert in nuclear physics, and to be honest, I am not an expert at all ... but how do you comment on this - plutonium 239 (half-life 24000 years)?

          It's in the reactors.

          The Chernobyl reactor RBMK-1000 was originally developed by Academicians Adeksandrov and Dollezhal to produce the weapon-grade isotope plutonium-239, which is formed as a result of double conversion from the isotope uranium-238.

          Chernobyl exploded just at the end of the technological cycle, when there was a lot of plutonium in the reactor.

          The half-life of the plutonium-239 isotope is indeed 24 thousand years, so there is no hope for time, only migration into the interior of the Earth.
          1. Sergey Averchenkov
            Sergey Averchenkov 17 September 2020 12: 27
            -2
            I went online and found this ... Weapon-grade plutonium is just 239, but even if we take into account the fact that it decomposes during the reaction (but not all, its residues are contaminated), cesium-137 and strontium-90 are still formed - the half-life 30 years. What do you say to that?
            1. Doctor
              Doctor 17 September 2020 12: 51
              0
              I went online and found this ... Weapon-grade plutonium is just 239, but even if we take into account the fact that it decomposes during the reaction (but not all, its residues are contaminated), cesium-137 and strontium-90 are still formed - the half-life 30 years. What do you say to that?

              Same. These are Chernobyl isotopes, intermediate fission products.
              You have forgotten iodine-131 yet.

              The half-life of the isotope of iodine-131 is only 8 days, but it is relatively abundant in fission fragments, it is volatile and mobile.
              And most importantly, the human body loves it, more precisely the thyroid gland, which builds its hormones from iodine as well. At the same time, unfortunately, she does not distinguish iodine isotopes by her drum iodine-127 or radioactive iodine-131.

              Therefore, it is recommended to drink potassium iodide for prophylaxis in order to clog the gland with normal iodine and prevent radioactive ones from accumulating in it, turning the thyroid gland into a mini-reactor. wassat
      2. g1washntwn
        g1washntwn 17 September 2020 11: 24
        +1
        Quote: Arzt
        Everywhere. In a month. These are short-lived isotopes.

        This is if the high-altitude detonation and nuclear material almost all "burns out" in the reaction. Hiroshima was a "paper city" and that is why it burned like gunpowder in a fire. But after the underwater nuclear test, the Americans only damaged the ships, and with difficulty sank them, because they began to radiate scary, after the release of unsuccessful underground tests, some sites at the test site are still closed.
        What to do with induced radiation? We have cities, factories, ships from what? Iron, nickel, alloys ... all this is in the soil. With neutron activation, we get cobalt-60, one gram of which gives more than 1000 Ci ... And this is with "environmentally friendly" nuclear weapons which are trying to calm everyone down. And he will scatter about a dozen "Chernobyls" around the neighborhood, and ... a month, you say?
        1. Doctor
          Doctor 17 September 2020 13: 02
          0
          This is if the high-altitude detonation and nuclear material almost all "burns out" in the reaction. Hiroshima was a "paper city" and that is why it burned like gunpowder in a fire. But after the underwater nuclear test, the Americans only damaged the ships, and with difficulty sank them, because they began to radiate scary, after the release of unsuccessful underground tests, some sites at the test site are still closed.
          What to do with induced radiation? We have cities, factories, ships from what? Iron, nickel, alloys ... all this is in the soil. With neutron activation, we get cobalt-60, one gram of which gives more than 1000 Ci ... And this is with "environmentally friendly" nuclear weapons which are trying to calm everyone down. And he will scatter about a dozen "Chernobyls" around the neighborhood, and ... a month, you say?


          Totsk test site, Lieutenant General S.A. Zelentsov:

          “Having finished filming the scene of the explosion, I, accompanied by a dosimetrist and a photographer, drove along the valley to the epicenter of the explosion, stopping from time to time to photograph the terrain and experimental objects. This was necessary to prepare an express report to the government.

          The area after the explosion was difficult to recognize: the grass was smoking, the scorched quails were running around, the bushes and copses disappeared. Bare, smoking hills surrounded me. It was difficult to navigate. However, there were no massive fires and the roads were familiar.

          Having photographed overturned and discarded tanks, destroyed trenches, damaged equipment, struck animals, they went in the direction of the epicenter of the explosion, which stood out as a group of detached, charred tree trunks, from which all branches were torn off by a blow from above. Not reaching the zone of strong radioactive contamination, we crossed the road along which the columns of the attackers passed in front of us.

          It was empty and quiet, only radiometers clicked, noting the increased level of radiation. The troops proceeded past the epicenter outside the zone of severe contamination. Directly in the area adjacent to the epicenter of the explosion, the ground was covered with a thin glassy crust of molten sand, crunching and breaking underfoot, like thin ice on spring puddles after a night frost. And there were no tracks on it except mine.

          I walked calmly on this crust, as the radiometer recorded the level of radioactivity, not exceeding 1 R / h ".
          1. g1washntwn
            g1washntwn 17 September 2020 13: 25
            0
            Quote: Arzt
            Before reaching the zone of strong radioactive contamination,

            You need to read in a row, and not just the bold. Before the heap, look for why the Americans wanted to stop tanks in Europe with neutron charges, although their power and the radius of destruction were penny.
            1. Doctor
              Doctor 17 September 2020 13: 30
              +2
              You need to read in a row, and not just the bold. Before the heap, look for why the Americans wanted to stop tanks in Europe with neutron charges, although their power and the radius of destruction were penny.

              I do not urge you to immediately climb into the epicenter. It's just that the author thinks that everything will be like in Chernobyl. And this is not at all true.
              It will be like in Semipalatinsk or Nevada.

              On the neutron basis I agree.
              1. g1washntwn
                g1washntwn 17 September 2020 13: 57
                -1
                Quote: Arzt
                I do not urge you to immediately climb into the epicenter.

                How long do you have to wait? If you wait for the beta decay of induced cobalt-60, then 5 years, if the full half-life, then 2,6 * 10 ^ 6 ... Nobody knows how much a sixth degree reduction can be allowed for safe life, because they will say "must!" and let's go out of the epicenter to take out the surviving values, just as they extinguished Chernobyl.
  • Old Orc
    Old Orc 17 September 2020 09: 47
    +1
    The question is interesting but. everything rests on transport. the railways will be seriously damaged. gaps in cities lack of fuel and electricity. the absence of steam locomotives and their shortage will lead to the fact that all production will roll down to pasture. That within a radius of 50 km everything that no longer exists will be in operation.
    1. Doctor
      Doctor 17 September 2020 10: 12
      0
      The question is interesting but. everything rests on transport. the railways will be seriously damaged. gaps in cities lack of fuel and electricity. the absence of steam locomotives and their shortage will lead to the fact that all production will roll down to pasture. That within a radius of 50 km everything that no longer exists will be in operation.

      Just not much, only at the nodal points (cities). Compared to the total length of the canvas, this is minuscule. Will restore quickly.

      Locomotives - everything, there were until the 80s, now diesel locomotives. There is enough fuel oil.

      In this sense, the Americans are well thought out, they generally have all locomotives on fuel oil, electric traction was not even discussed.
      1. Shopping Mall
        17 September 2020 11: 47
        0
        Quote: Arzt
        The question is interesting but. everything rests on transport. the railways will be seriously damaged. gaps in cities lack of fuel and electricity. the absence of steam locomotives and their shortage will lead to the fact that all production will roll down to pasture. That within a radius of 50 km everything that no longer exists will be in operation.

        Just not much, only at the nodal points (cities). Compared to the total length of the canvas, this is minuscule. Will restore quickly.

        Locomotives - everything, there were until the 80s, now diesel locomotives. There is enough fuel oil.


        For steam locomotives - there are almost no old stocks left: https://zen.yandex.ru/media/d1als/poslednee-pristanisce-parovozov-v-rossii-5ce83bc3563a6c00b269656f
        if they only start building new ones.

        But there are doubts about fuel oil - where to get it? Easily developed deposits are depleted, now oil is either deep in the north, or high-tech shale production is required. There are, of course, bituminous sands in some places, but not everywhere and not at all. On the Arabian deposits, most likely, they will also throw nuclear weapons, so that the enemies do not get it. The fact that the wells will fail is still half the trouble, but the fact that oil can become radioactive is much worse. Or there will be burning torches beating out of the ground, which in the post-nuclear world will have no one to put out and nothing to put out.
        1. Doctor
          Doctor 17 September 2020 14: 15
          0
          For steam locomotives - there are almost no old stocks left:

          I’m saying steam locomotives were canceled back in the 80s. Firewood and coal are not easier to get, and water is also needed. Therefore, a special depot was organized not far from reservoirs, a water pump was installed on the shore and a pipe was pulled underground.
        2. saygon66
          saygon66 18 September 2020 00: 45
          0
          - So the steam locomotives were good because everyone that burns can heat boilers ... And remake the furnace for any fuel - liquid, such as fuel oil, solar oil, kerosene ... solid - firewood, coal, peat ... gas - not great problem!
          - Anything that burns - even corpses ... can serve as fuel ... with varying efficiency - but it can. That is why smart people have kept them for more than a dozen years ... And they can be repaired with the help of simple technologies - this is not to restore diesel locomotive generators! Plus, steam locomotives can be used as the basis for local heating networks, as well as drives for various equipment (locomotive).
  • Free wind
    Free wind 17 September 2020 11: 09
    +2
    A bit to the photographs, the Tricycle in the first photo is not viable, it will fall apart after 100 km, with such a suspension. Well, the end of the world .. And the Ishilovites were told that welding suede gloves are made from scraps of pork skins ?. Steam locomotives, for all their seeming antediluvia, are a very complex design. And the operation and maintenance are very difficult. Perhaps poisonous gases will be used, their production is not very difficult. In any case, the Chinese will win, they have spread across all countries and continents, even in Greenland, there are several tails. Outside of China, there are more than 50 million of them. Even if more than 1,5 billion of them die in China, they will still win. In short, we will get the USA and Europe. India, Africa, South America remain on the sidelines. If Europe is covered with vigorous bombs, then the radioactive cloud will cover Russia up to the Yenisei. Then the cyclones die out.
    1. garri-lin
      garri-lin 17 September 2020 11: 27
      +1
      And why is India aloof? Tripartite kipish India, China, Pakistan can start without a world war.
      1. Shopping Mall
        17 September 2020 11: 39
        +1
        Quote: garri-lin
        And why is India aloof? Tripartite kipish India, China, Pakistan can start without a world war.


        And she won't stay. There, a bilateral is also possible, in the India Pakistan format. And in the global turmoil, they certainly will not leave each other unattended.
        1. Alexey RA
          Alexey RA 17 September 2020 12: 29
          +1
          Quote: AVM
          And she won't stay. There, a bilateral is also possible, in the India Pakistan format.

          In this format, the two-sided batch will not last long - as soon as the packs start to be merged, Big Brother will join. Pakistan has long been China's "fighting hamster".
        2. garri-lin
          garri-lin 17 September 2020 17: 15
          0
          Sometimes you just get the impression that this region can become a world detonator.
    2. Shopping Mall
      17 September 2020 11: 37
      +1
      Quote: Free Wind
      A bit to the photos, the Tricycle in the first photo is not viable, it will fall apart after 100 km, with such a suspension., Well, the end of the world ..


      Photo from some American festival dedicated to the theme "Mad Max" wink
  • bairat
    bairat 17 September 2020 11: 19
    +2
    Quote: Kot_Kuzya
    So now, in remote areas, they still independently equip cartridges, especially cartridges for smooth-bore weapons. Crossbows would be used, only in Russia crossbows are prohibited for use in hunting, they can only be used for shooting at objects in competitions and as recreational shooting.

    The cartridges themselves twist, I know. Gunpowder and capsules are purchased.
    Recreational shooting is possible only at the shooting range (get there, pay, well, it's nafik). In the settlement it is impossible, but beyond its borders the territory of some kind of hunting farm begins, illegal hunting will hang. It's the same with pneumatics.
  • hohol95
    hohol95 17 September 2020 11: 36
    0
    For the Author!
    Inspired by recent screening of Mad Max: Fury Road ???
    1. Shopping Mall
      17 September 2020 16: 42
      +2
      Quote: hohol95
      For the Author!
      Inspired by recent screening of Mad Max: Fury Road ???


      Rather, Doronin's works of the "Black Day" series.
  • Catfish
    Catfish 17 September 2020 11: 51
    +2
    "There is life on Mars, there is no life on Mars - science does not know this." (Lecturer performed by Sergei Filippov, film "Carnival Night")
    The same can be said about reasoning about the post-apocalyptic world. None of us can know what other rubbish was brought out in closed chemical and bacteriological laboratories and it makes no sense to guess about this. It is better to treat all this according to the formula of an old anecdote from "Armenian Radio":
    - We do not know what will happen if an atomic bomb falls on Yerevan, but let it fall better on Tbilisi. " laughing
    And we will leave predictions to science fiction writers, because the topic is very fertile. wassat
    As an accompaniment - a couple of illustrations from "Mad Max".




    1. hohol95
      hohol95 17 September 2020 21: 41
      +2
      If you walk through all 4 parts, you will have a pretty decent arsenal of different "firing"!
      And what will actually happen - no one will know ...
      As a teenager I read a story about spirits or angels. And one of them fulfilled the request of a boy from one of the planets - the boy wished that his mother would never die. And that story ends with such a picture - an asteroid is flying.
      A shard from that planet, and on it a lonely woman ... Alive ...
      1. Catfish
        Catfish 17 September 2020 22: 43
        +3
        Actually awful.
        1. hohol95
          hohol95 17 September 2020 22: 51
          +2
          That was the story. For teenagers.
          But I have never personally met such angels or aliens. And for this I will share my fate with the whole country ... It remains only to hope that by that moment there will be only dust from me ...
  • Knell wardenheart
    Knell wardenheart 17 September 2020 13: 02
    0
    As far as I understand, the mass production of explosives will still be tied to a fairly powerful chemical industry. Powerful chemical the industry will be tied to the industrial production of the resources it needs and to a certain level of metallurgy / electrification to support it. The use of more accessible BB formulas excludes its use in most of the above nomenclature. As for the massive use of mines, I cannot agree. Mines are a rather laborious product that requires a certain level of conveyor production and a significant number of workers for their manufacture. In the case of a choice between mines and forcing the manufacture of cartridges - at an enterprise with a certain level of power suitable for execution - they will definitely choose cartridges, preferring mines - wire bombs and a variety of handicrafts. Of course, modern stockpiles of mines may last for a long time, and given the transience of the nuclear conflict (probably) they will not be fully used. In this case, yes - they will.
    I cannot agree about the shortage of ammunition - first of all, one must understand that in a nuclear conflict there will be a significant decline in the population, in post-nuclear hunger and chaos with diseases and a high level of seizure rates, this figure will increase many times. Thus, the mobilization capabilities will be low - the coverage of the territory required for control is as wide as possible. This will inevitably lead to the side of highly professional paramilitaries and increase the combat quality and capabilities of individual soldiers. Modern concripts will work hard in the production of food and weapons, and in the restoration of pre-war facilities (which can be restored). The territorial militia will play a certain role - it will be armed with what the author mentioned. And the asset, the "army" will definitely be automated, as much as possible, probably highly mobile, probably with a division into snipers, attack aircraft and field engineering.
    As for the tanks, I agree. Probably they will operate technical vehicles based on trucks or SUVs. The volume of the pre-war cargo fleet will allow for many years to "eat up" this direction.
    A machine gun, mortar, grenade launcher and a fairly accurate rifle are the main weapons of this war. Barbed wire (and its more primitive ersatz), fragmentation landmines will also be widely used.
    Remains of railway networks and narrow gauge railways will be of the utmost importance. Probably, due to the limited resources of their resources, any parties will be forced to gain a foothold within the boundaries of a favorable area for this - rivers, hills, etc., construction of primitive bunkers with good control of the area will be carried out.
    In this regard, I see raiding with robbery and divas as the main form of hostilities. operations.
    Techniques are more likely to be used early and defensively. Instead of tanks, after a while there will be a rethinking of the concept of BMD-BTR. Napalm and combustible mixtures will gain some distribution.
    Something like this . It seems to me that the main form of government will rather quickly come to polis formations and the neighboring dictatorship in the "prince-squad" style.
    1. g1washntwn
      g1washntwn 17 September 2020 13: 40
      +2
      Quote: Knell Wardenheart
      the main form of government will quickly come to polis formations and the neighboring dictatorship in the "prince-squad" style

      This is yes. Everyone decides that his decision is the only correct one and you better join us, and not vice versa. Even according to comments on VO, this "psychological theory of evolution" can be traced clearly. Until any one principality undermines its strength and begins to spread its ideology to neighboring ones. It is now that the EU has seemingly calmed down in a supposedly single trance, and then it will be, as in the Middle Ages, a set of locks, each with its own ruler and an endless war of thrones with the extermination of the population of the neighboring villages at zero for resources and influence. There is no other way. Either you will be swallowed up, or you are full and drunk. In principle, we still live according to the same laws, the coverage of the influence of the "principalities" is only larger, and the global cataclysm will chop everything back into a vinaigrette.
      1. Knell wardenheart
        Knell wardenheart 17 September 2020 14: 01
        -1
        One cannot go against the concentration of infrastructure specialists. Even in the post-nuclear ashes there will be less damaged third-rate scientific or industrial towns, and next to them are provincial military units-warehouses. This will be the basis of the post-nuclear civilization of the so-called "Polis". The "princes" will sit on key out-of-the-city facilities, lacking the strength and brains to manually control or protect policies - they will be engaged in robbing "no one's land" and selling policies of interest to residents for their products.

        The main parameter of a view of these things is undoubtedly the power and scale of a nuclear war (and to some extent its duration). If we consider a total nuclear apocalypse with a highly variable defeat of the maximum number of key enemy enterprises and its main population clusters, then the picture will be the same (and it is likely that what will happen after a long time cannot be called wars - it will be gang squabbles for food supplies , medicines and "live goods".

        In some middle version - when civilization through the state. and territ. institutions will already collapse, but the defeat of key industrial facilities will not be so absolute - we will observe the picture described by the author + - what I added about. Now it is very bad to imagine how many people will die out in the event of a nuclear war - this figure will be extremely high. Most of the retirees and women 18-30 will go to another world. People with chronic diseases and pre-retirees are a slightly smaller part. Both the radioactive contamination of the area and the high dependence of a modern person on medical preparations, clean water, processed food, the inability of the physical condition to what will begin almost immediately after nuclear strikes will affect. The psychological weakness of our and adjacent generations will also affect. The collapse of the sowing plant, power supply, sanitary and treatment services, firefighters, police, transport links and heat supply - will lead to the fact that another part of the survivors will die in the coming winter with the post-nucleus. I suspect that of the 140 million of our current population, due to its overcrowding in the event of an average global conflict and the fall of the state, there would be a maximum of 40 million. And again, most of those who remained would be women 35-40 + and children under 18 - and only about 30-35% would be men 20-40. You can't really fight with this, given that all this will be well dispersed over a huge territory and will still require a fierce amount of food and medicines, which will soon have to be produced (otherwise there will be even fewer people).
  • faterdom
    faterdom 17 September 2020 14: 39
    +2
    Somehow everything ... in a cinematic way. Jedi on starships, but with swords.
    Or maybe everything is more boring, as it happened in the history of the Earth more than once: all living things are destroyed by 99,9%, and then new variants of life - from unicellular to multicellular ones, specialization of living tissues (muscle, nervous, epithelium, light-sensitive, etc.) ).
    The worlds are aquatic and terrestrial, plant and animal, yes, because mushrooms still do not know where to assign it, and maybe what other varieties are possible?
    So, not everything is lost! Let's be reborn, we'll live! And only then, when it gets crowded, you might think - what are we going to fight with each other?
  • Sancho_SP
    Sancho_SP 17 September 2020 16: 18
    +1
    Fundamentally disagree.

    Of the seven (or how many already?) Billions of the population, only a couple of hundred million are employed in the high-tech industry. Everyone else, in fact, is busy self-sufficiency in one form or another.

    In order to save jet planes, electronics and space, there is no need to save the entire population. It is enough to preserve the carriers of key technologies.
  • Baron pardus
    Baron pardus 17 September 2020 23: 06
    +1
    In the USA, many, including me, have more than a dozen barrels at home, more than one thousand cartridges, and there are also machines for equipment. And if you consider that many, especially in small towns and on farms, have a lot of good stuff, since when it was still legal. Yes, and there are also enough mini-workers and amateurs of gunsmiths / sappers with crazy hands, then, I think, we can do without sticks and kamenyuk.
    1. g1washntwn
      g1washntwn 18 September 2020 06: 33
      0
      One "but", for resources you will fight among yourself, that is, with an equal enemy. I don't think you hope that the Russians will suddenly invade your farms? Therefore, the consumption of PSU and reserves will be rapid. Although, most likely, the National Guard and the Armed Forces will simply confiscate everything cleanly and then two ways: either with them, or take the very sticks with stones and resist the scattered gangs.
      1. Baron pardus
        Baron pardus 18 September 2020 17: 30
        0
        I'm in Army Reserve now. So, after the first strike, I will survive, it will be easier for me, just like a honey to my brother, a radio radiographer, and even in the Army Reserve. Your value is determined only by how difficult it is to replace you. But yes, we will kill each other for resources, naturally having strayed into groups based on racial and ideological principles. I am also a member of such groups. On the one hand, in the states the people have a lot of trunks. On the other hand, society is so fragmented and radicalized that in the event of the fall of the central government, it will explode here. Everyone will remember everything to everyone. Civil war 17-22 in the Soviet Union will seem like a kindergarten
      2. Baron pardus
        Baron pardus 18 September 2020 17: 30
        0
        I'm in Army Reserve now. So, after the first strike, I will survive, it will be easier for me, just like a honey to my brother, a radio radiographer, and even in the Army Reserve. Your value is determined only by how difficult it is to replace you. But yes, we will kill each other for resources, naturally having strayed into groups based on racial and ideological principles. I am also a member of such groups. On the one hand, in the states the people have a lot of trunks. On the other hand, society is so fragmented and radicalized that in the event of the fall of the central government, it will explode here. Everyone will remember everything to everyone. Civil war 17-22 in the Soviet Union will seem like a kindergarten
  • Pavel57
    Pavel57 18 September 2020 17: 45
    0
    The author is an optimist. Most likely, civilization will be thrown back into the Iron Age. And the main problem is the preservation and transfer of knowledge.
  • PROVINCIAL
    PROVINCIAL 18 September 2020 18: 41
    0
    In the post-nuclear world, only that society will remain that will be able to organize the fastest, correctly assessing the situation, resources and future plans. With the presence of remnants of Real leaders (not to be confused with real power). If this happens in the next 10 years, then I'll bet on the Slavs. Further under the big question because the moral degeneration of the Slavs continues.
  • vonWolfenstein
    vonWolfenstein 18 September 2020 20: 17
    0
    There will be a return to muzzle-loading weapons: primer, flint and even wick as the easiest to manufacture. In addition, it is easier to make ammunition for them. No one will water in turns, volleys will be fired again, followed by a bayonet fight. And how can you forget about cold bladed and polearms - pikes, sabers, axes))
  • Alt 22
    Alt 22 18 September 2020 21: 48
    0
    Steampunk rules. I understand ...