Military Review

Prut disaster of Peter I

247
Prut disaster of Peter I

Peter I in a camp on the banks of the Prut. Engraving by an unknown artist


In the previous article ("Prut campaign of Peter I") we began a story about the unhappy campaign of Peter I, ending it on the events of July 21, 1711.

Even on the march, the Russian army, which suffered huge losses in the most unfavorable conditions, entered into battle with the Turkish-Tatar troops of the Grand Vizier Baltadzhi Mehmet Pasha and was pressed against the right bank of the Prut River, experiencing enormous difficulties with food and fodder.

On the eve of negotiations


On July 21, the situation was as follows.

The Ottomans, who had no idea about the critical state of the Russian troops, were shocked by their training, courage and the degree of effectiveness of their actions. The cavalry could not do anything with the Russian infantry hiding behind the slingshots. The attacks of the janissaries, in which they first went with a large "fury", drowned, and now there were very few people who wanted to continue. The actions of the Turkish artillery turned out to be ineffective, but the Russian batteries literally mowed down the attacking Turks - in whole rows. By the time the negotiations began, both the high command of the Turkish army and ordinary soldiers began to spread depressive moods and there was talk about the need to conclude peace on decent terms. Among the Russian soldiers and officers who found themselves in a difficult situation, there was no panic, the generals also maintained their composure. Making its march along the banks of the Prut River and repelling the Turkish attacks of the camp, the Russian army acted as a well-oiled mechanism, inflicting huge losses on the enemy. But, according to some authors, Tsar Peter I himself behaved strangely in the Russian camp. According to Erebo, on July 21 he only

"I ran up and down the camp, beat my chest and could not utter a word."

Yust Yul writes about the same:

"As I was told, the king, being surrounded by the Turkish army, came to such despair that he ran up and down the camp like a madman, beat his chest and could not utter a word. Most thought that with him a blow."


Commander Yust Juhl, Danish envoy to the court of Peter I

Indeed, it is very similar to a pre-stroke state.
To top it off

"the officers' wives, of whom there were many, howled and wept endlessly."

(Yust Yul.)

In general, the picture is simply apocalyptic: the tsar allegedly runs around the camp "like a madman" and cannot even say a word, but the officers' wives howl loudly. And all this is gloomily gazed at by hungry soldiers, who have already repulsed several enemy attacks and, in spite of everything, are ready to fight to the end ...

But in a similar situation at Kahul in 1770, 17 thousand soldiers and several thousand Cossacks under the command of P. A. Rumyantsev themselves attacked the 150-thousand Turkish-Tatar army that surrounded them - and defeated it.


Bernard. Portrait of P. Rumyantsev (kept in the Bakhchisarai Museum-Reserve)

The generals of Peter I, anticipating plans for future victories, then offered quite sensible things. It was decided: if the Turks refused to negotiate, burn and destroy the carts (because of fear of losing which Peter had not attacked the janissaries who were ready to flee the day before),

"to build a Wagenburg out of stronger wagons and place Volokhs and Cossacks in it, reinforcing them with several thousand infantry, and attack the enemy with the entire army."

A very promising directive, by the way. If the Turks retreated, unable to withstand the exemplary artillery fire of Russian batteries and the blow of infantry units, a lot of interesting and extremely necessary things would have been found for the Russians in the Ottoman camp.

Recall that at the beginning of the battle, surrounded and continuously attacked by the Russian vanguard did not flinch. In perfect order, he retreated all night and, having inflicted considerable damage on the Turks (mainly by artillery fire), joined up with the main army.

And what was there to lose? In total, during the Prut campaign, the Russian army lost only 2 people in battles. And 872 24 died, without even seeing a single enemy soldier - from disease, hunger and thirst.

Given the state in which Peter I was, it is still not clear who exactly in the Russian camp made the decision to appoint a military council, at which it was decided to start peace negotiations: Field Marshal Sheremetyev, a group of generals, Peter who came to himself or even Catherine ...

The last version can be safely discarded, since such actions of this woman were simply not in her mind - her whole previous and subsequent life irrefutably testifies to this. And who was she in the summer of 1711 for the generals to listen to her? Yes, on March 6, Peter and Catherine were secretly married, but no one in the army knew about this. For everyone, she remained only a royal metress with an extremely dubious reputation, which, perhaps, tomorrow will be replaced by another, younger and dexterous one.

But Catherine's services rendered to Peter then were really great. Peter never forgot about them, and upon his return to St. Petersburg, in February 1712 he was already openly married to Catherine, and their daughters Anna (b. 1708) and Elizabeth (1709) received the official status of crown princess. In 1714, specifically to reward his wife, Peter I established a new Russian order, then named after the Holy Great Martyr Catherine, emphasizing her courageous behavior:

"In memory of her Majesty's being in the battle with the Turks near the Prut, where at such a dangerous time not like a wife, but like a man's person was visible to everyone."


Order of the Holy Great Martyr Catherine

In the manifesto on November 15, 1723 about the coronation of Catherine, Peter once again recalls this, claiming that she acted in the Northern War and in the Battle of Prut "masculine, not feminine".

With the courageous behavior of Catherine in that critical situation, everything is clear. But there were other services rendered to her then to Peter. And the main one was healing.

From many sources it is known that Catherine was the only one who knew how to shoot the terrible seizures of Peter I, during which he, either in an epileptic seizure, or against the background of a spasm of the cerebral vessels, rolled on the floor, screamed from headaches and even lost his sight. Catherine then sat down next to him, laying his head on her knees and stroking his hair. The Tsar calmed down, fell asleep, and during his sleep (usually 2-3 hours) Catherine remained motionless. Upon awakening, Peter gave the impression of an absolutely healthy person. Sometimes these seizures were prevented: if they noticed convulsive twitching of the corners of Peter's mouth in time, they called Catherine, who began to talk to the king and stroked him on the head, after which he also fell asleep. That is why, starting in 1709, Peter could no longer do without her, and Catherine followed him on all campaigns. It is curious that she demonstrated such "psychic" abilities only in relation to him alone; nothing is known about cases of her "treatment" of other people.


Jean Henri Benner. Catherine I (Marta Samuilovna Skavronskaya (Kruse) Jean Henri Benner. Catherine I (Marta Samuilovna Skavronskaya (Kruse)

Probably, in this case, it was Catherine who was able to calm and revive the tsar who was in a pre-stroke state.

After this attack, Peter spent some time in his tent. Communication between him and his generals was carried out through Catherine.

The mystery of the letter of Peter I


Now a little about the famous letter allegedly written by the emperor at that time. Many researchers doubt its authenticity. And the first among the skeptics was none other than A.S. Pushkin, who, on the instructions of Nicholas I, worked on history Peter the Great and was admitted to all archival documents of that time.

To begin with, it is completely incomprehensible how this letter could have come to Petersburg from the besieged Prut camp. Shtelin in the notes claims that some officer managed to get out of the camp, go through all the Turkish and Tatar cordons, through the waterless steppe, and after 9 days (!) Bring him to Petersburg and transfer him to the Senate. It was simply impossible to get from the banks of the Prut to St. Petersburg in 9 days. It is also extremely curious why this officer went to Petersburg at all. And how was he able to deliver a letter there to the Senate, which was at that time in Moscow?

Equally perplexing is the order of Peter, in the event of his capture or death, to elect a new king from among the members of the Senate.

First, Peter had a legitimate heir - his son Alexei. And the relationship between them finally deteriorated only after the birth of a son, Catherine. Moreover, Peter's attitude to his son at that moment did not matter: it was impossible to challenge the Tsarevich's right to the throne. Then only one thing was required of Alexei: he had to remain alive at the time of his father's death. It is then that Peter will pass the law that will open the way to the throne for anyone. And M. Voloshin will write:

Peter wrote with a numb hand:
"Give it all ..." Fate added:
"... to dissolute women with their hahals" ...
The Russian court erases all differences
Fornication, palace and tavern.
Queens are crowned king
By the lust of the guards' stallions.


Secondly, the Senate under Peter is an executive body in which people served who could not even imagine themselves on the throne, and the representatives of the old aristocracy - even more so.

It can be concluded that the real author of the letter lived at a much later time.

It was not possible to find the original of this letter, it is known about it only from the book by Jacob Stehlin, written by him in German in 1785. The source, by the way, is very dubious: along with actual facts, it contains many fictional ones.

That is, for 74 years no one has heard about this letter of Peter I in Russia, and suddenly, please: the revelation of a visiting German. But Shtelin himself, being a foreigner, could not write it: this is the syllable of a native speaker - with a good vocabulary and knowledge of the documents of the era, the style of which he is trying to imitate. Speaking about the letter, Shtelin refers to Prince M. Shcherbatov, who is the most likely author of it.

Bribery of the Grand Vizier: myth or truth?


The story of the bribery of the Grand Vizier Baltaci Mehmet Pasha by Catherine is also a fiction and is completely untrue. We will talk about this now.

First of all, it should be said that there was no bribery of the Grand Vizier at all. At first, even the Crimean Khan Devlet-Girey II and the Swedish King Charles XII, who had quarreled with him, did not dare to accuse him of receiving a bribe.

In August 1711, addressing the Sultan, they both accused the vizier of being too modest and compliant in negotiations with the Russians, but were not supported by other influential persons.

British Ambassador Sutton writes:

"Under the influence of the khan, the sultan expressed dissatisfaction with the vizier's moderation, but he was supported by the mufti and ulema, Ali Pasha (the sultan's favorite), Kizlyar-aga (chief eunuch), the chief of the janissaries and all the officers."

Only in September, Sutton notes the appearance of rumors about a bribe, which he associates with the Tatars and Swedes. At the same time, he writes that the behavior of the vizier

"is approved completely and in all details by the Sultan and all the people, despite everything that was blamed on him, and despite the intrigues of the Swedish king and khan. The vizier is supported not only by the Sultan and his ministers, but also by the ulama, the largest and best part of the people, the chief of the janissaries and in general all the military leaders and officers, in accordance with whose advice he acted ... Only a few of the mob listen to the words of the Swedes and Tatars ... that the vizier was generously bribed by the tsar. "

The only reason for Baltaji Mehmet Pasha's compliance is the valiant behavior of Russian soldiers and officers and his unwillingness to fight such a dangerous enemy.

One of the senior foreign officers in the army of Peter I, Moro de Brace (commander of the dragoon brigade), recalled that then he asked one of the Ottoman pashas about the reasons for the conclusion of peace:

"He answered that our firmness amazed them, that they did not think to find in us such terrible opponents that, judging by the situation in which we were, and by the retreat we made, they saw that our life would cost them dearly, and decided, without wasting time, to accept our proposal for an armistice in order to remove us ... and that they acted prudently, concluding peace on conditions honorable for the Sultan and beneficial for his people. "

It is known that, having received the first two letters from the Russians with a proposal for peace negotiations, the Grand Vizier and his entourage considered this a military trick and therefore did not even answer them.

The Russian ambassador P. Shafirov, who arrived at the tent of the Turkish commander-in-chief, to the surprise and great displeasure of Poniatovsky, was received extremely kindly: contrary to custom, the vizier was the first to turn to him and offer to sit on a stool, which, according to Turkish customs, served as a sign of great respect:

"When they (the ambassadors) appeared, instead of a harsh meeting, stools were required to seat them."

Gifts in the Ottoman Empire were commonplace: according to generally accepted etiquette, it was considered necessary to show respect to the person with whom you need to talk about some business. Officials of all levels were no exception, in the XNUMXth century there was a special institution for accounting for such gifts and deducting interest from them to the treasury. Therefore, Shafirov simply could not appear empty-handed.

The initiator of the negotiations was not Peter I, but Sheremetyev, and therefore the gifts were not tsarist, but field marshal's.

Later, rumors began to spread that the initiator of the negotiations was Catherine, who sent all her jewelry to the vizier as a bribe. These rumors came from Charles XII and his entourage. The Swedish king, on the one hand, wanted to denigrate the Grand Vizier, who had become his enemy, and, on the other, to humiliate Peter I, making him look like a pitiful coward hiding behind a woman's skirt.

This version was introduced into literary use by a certain Rabiner, who, after the accession of Catherine in 1725, published a book with this story in Leipzig. Then Voltaire repeated this legend in his book about Charles XII - in 1732. Unfortunately, it was this version, insulting to the Russian army and our country, that prevailed over time (even in Russia), despite the fierce objections of La Motreya, who, after the publication of all these works, wrote:

"I received information from various Muscovite officers ... that Madame Catherine, who later became empress, had very few jewelry, that she did not collect any silver for the vizier."

And here is what the Frenchman says about P. Shafirov:

“Only thanks to his abilities, and not at all the imaginary gifts of the queen, the tsar owes his deliverance on the Prut. As I said elsewhere, I was very well informed about all the gifts made to the vizier after the conclusion of the peace treaty only the Pasha with whom I was then, but many other Turks, even the enemies of this vizier. "



Petr Shafirov, portrait of an unknown author

By the way, Alexander Pushkin, having studied the circumstances of this case, in the preparatory texts for "The History of Peter", outlining the melodramatic story of "Catherine's feat", made a note: "All this is nonsense."

A completely different story is connected with Catherine's jewelry. Yust Yul reports that on the morning of July 21 (when the distraught Peter was running around the camp, and the officers' wives howled), she

"she gave away all her precious stones and jewelry to the first servants and officers she came across, and upon the conclusion of peace, she took these things back from them, declaring that they were given to them only for saving."

As you understand, this made an extremely unfavorable impression throughout the army. And there was simply nothing to bribe the Grand Vizier Catherine, even if it had occurred to her.

What did Shafirov Baltaji Mehmet Pasha bring during his first visit? The gifts were by no means "feminine", but quite masculine:

"2 squeaky good gilded ones, 2 pairs of good pistols, 40 sables worth 400 rubles."

No diamond pendants or ruby ​​necklaces.

The vizier's associates received furs of sables, black foxes and rather modest amounts of gold.

From Shafirov's letter to Peter I, the exact and final amount of "gifts" is known: 250 thousand rubles, 150 thousand of which were received by the grand vizier. Given the circumstances, the amounts are quite small.

The grave consequences of the Prut peace


The political consequences were much more serious. Russia gave away Azov, Taganrog, Kamenny Zaton and all other fortresses, as well as the one occupied by General Renne Brailov. The Azov fleet was destroyed. Peter refused to interfere in Polish affairs and in the affairs of the Zaporozhye Cossacks. The obligation to resume the payment of tribute to the Crimean Khan was very humiliating.

British Ambassador Sutton reports:

"The king undertook in a separate article, which at his request was not included in the text of the treaty, to hide the dishonor, to pay the usual old tribute to the khan in the amount of 40 ducats annually, from which he was released by the last peace."

Russia also now had no right to keep an ambassador in Istanbul and had to communicate with the Turkish government through the Crimean Khan.


Russian ambassadors kneel before the Turks after the unsuccessful Prut campaign. Engraving

Shafirov and Sheremetev remained hostages in the Turkish camp.

For the rest, Baltaci Mehmet Pasha showed a certain nobility.

In the Turkish report about the campaign, it is reported that he ordered to issue food for the Russian army for 11 days of travel. Russian troops were leaving weapons with drumming and banners unfurled.

Return of the heroes


Karl XII, having learned about the encirclement of the Russian army, rushed to the camp of the Turks, having driven 120 miles without stopping, but was one hour late: the Russian troops had already left their camp. The king reproached the vizier for being too soft, begged him to give him a part of the Turkish army under his command, promising to destroy the Russians and bring Peter I with a rope around his neck. Baltaji Mehmet Pasha answered him mockingly:

"And who would govern the state in his (Peter's) absence? It is not appropriate that all the kings of the giaours were not at home."

Enraged, Karl allowed himself an incredible trick - with a sharp blow of his spur, he tore the half of the vizier's robe and left his tent. Since then, the grand vizier and the Swedish king have become bitter enemies.

The Russian army, experiencing great hardships on its way, headed east, Peter I and Catherine - to the west: to improve their health on the waters of Carlsbad.

Foreign officers, who honestly performed their duty and almost died with their Russian subordinates, "in the name of his tsarist majesty" were thanked "for the services they rendered, especially on this last campaign" and were let go home without paying their salaries. The same Moreau reports:

"Field Marshal (Sheremetyev) did not spend too much money releasing all these officers, for he did not pay anything to anyone; and to this day my salary for 13 months disappears for him."

This was written in 1735, 24 years after the Prut campaign. It is highly doubtful that Moro de Brazet waited for his salary to be paid. As you can see, the tradition, referring to the lack of money, to wish "good mood and more health," did not appear in Russia yesterday. And in other countries, those who like to "save" public funds under the phrase "there is no money, but you hold on" met with unenviable regularity.

Some errors


The mistakes of Peter I had to be corrected by Anna Ioannovna, unloved by our historians, during whose reign P. Lassi and B. Minich made their campaigns, Ochakov and Perekop were taken, Bakhchisarai was burned, Russia returned Azov and the lost southern lands. And only then P. Rumyantsev, A. Suvorov, F. Ushakov won their victories, the Crimea was annexed and the development of the lands of the Wild Field (now Novorossiya) began.
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  1. cost
    cost 13 September 2020 07: 33 New
    10
    The Order of the Holy Great Martyr Catherine (or the Order of the Liberation) is an order of the Russian Empire for rewarding the grand duchesses and ladies of high society, in fact, the second oldest in the hierarchy of orders of the Russian Empire from 1714 to 1917.
    Had two degrees: the "big cross" - for persons of royal (royal) blood and the highest ranks of court ladies; "Small cross", or cavalry - for women from the upper nobility and the wives of especially distinguished military and officials. The recipients of the awards were called “ladies of the grand cross” and “cavalier ladies”, respectively.
    Order of Saint Catherine

    Diamond Star of the Orderon moire tape

    Badge to the Order of St. Catherine (front and back)

    Scheme of placement of insignia of the Order of St. Catherine... On the left is the placement of the orders of the ladies of the large cross, on the right - the ladies of the small cross (cavalier ladies)
    1. cost
      cost 13 September 2020 07: 39 New
      +7
      The order was awarded to women and for military services. On May 21, 1789, during the Russian-Swedish war, the small 24-gun Russian brig "Mercury" by Captain R. V. Crohn attacked and captured the 44-gun Swedish frigate "Venus". For this battle, Catherine II awarded Crown with the Order of St. George, 4th degree and promoted to captain of the 2nd rank. But the captain's wife, Martha Ivanovna Crohn, who assisted the wounded during the battle, was awarded the second most senior award of the Russian Empire, the Order of St. Catherine, from the empress.
      Capture by boat "Mercury" of the Swedish frigate "Venus»From the picture of A.P. Bogolyubov 1845
      1. cost
        cost 13 September 2020 07: 48 New
        +7
        The Order of the Holy Great Martyr Catherine was established by the Decree of the President of the Russian Federation D. A. Medvedev dated May 3, 2012 No. 573 "On the establishment of the Order of the Holy Great Martyr Catherine and the insignia" For Benefit ". [1]
        Statute of the Order
        1. The Order of the Holy Great Martyr Catherine is awarded to citizens of the Russian Federation and citizens of foreign countries known for their high spiritual and moral position and mercy for their outstanding contribution to peacekeeping, humanitarian and charitable activities, preservation of cultural heritage.
        2. The badge of the Order of the Holy Great Martyr Catherine is worn on the shoulder strap that runs over the right shoulder.
        It is allowed to wear the badge of the Order of the Holy Great Martyr Catherine on a bow, which is placed on the right side of the chest above other state awards of the Russian Federation.
        The star of the Order of the Holy Great Martyr Catherine is worn on the left side of the chest and is located below the orders worn on the stock, under the star of the Order of Merit to the Fatherland.
        3. For special occasions and possible everyday wear, it is envisaged to wear a miniature copy of the badge of the Order of the Holy Great Martyr Catherine, which is worn on the right side of the chest.
        4. When wearing the ribbon of the Order of the Holy Great Martyr Catherine on the bar, it is located after the ribbon of the Order of Merit to the Fatherland on the bar.
        5. When wearing the ribbon of the Order of the Holy Great Martyr Catherine in the form of a rosette, it is located on the left side of the chest.
        1. cost
          cost 13 September 2020 07: 52 New
          +7
          The badge of the order is a cross made of silver with gilding with an oval medallion in the center. Each end of the cross consists of four rays, the golden surface of which is covered with an ornament consisting of relief rings adjoining each other. Between the rays - two diamonds. The oval medallion has a decorative border in the form of relief rings. The medallion is covered with light blue enamel with enamelled image of the Holy Great Martyr Catherine. On the reverse side of the sign - the number of the sign. The insignia of the order is connected to a ring with an external overlay in the form of a narrow oval frame, decorated with relief rings adjoining each other. Inside the frame there are diamonds forming a vertical line. A ribbon, laid in a bow, is passed through the ring. On the reverse side, the bow has a device for attaching to clothes. The badge of the order on the bow can be attached to the order ribbon. The height of the badge of the order is 45 mm, width - 40 mm. The ribbon of the order is silk, moire, red with a silvery intermittent border along the edges, 100 mm wide. Border width - 7 mm.
          The width of the ribbon on the bow is 45 mm, the width of the silver border is 3 mm. The star of the order is silver, eight-pointed. In the center of the star, in a round medallion covered with red enamel, there is a relief gilded full-color image of the State Emblem of the Russian Federation. Around the medallion there is a border covered with red enamel. The motto of the order: "FOR MERCY" is written on the border in straight gilded letters. The distance between the ends of the opposite rays of the star is 82 mm. On the reverse side of the star, in the lower part, is the number of the star of the order. The star is attached to the clothes with a pin.
          A miniature copy of the badge of the Order of the Holy Great Martyr Catherine is worn on a bow. The height of the sign is 20,2 mm, the width is 20 mm. Belt width - 20 mm.
          When wearing the ribbon of the Order of the Holy Great Martyr Catherine on the uniform, a 12 mm high bar is used. Belt width - 24 mm.
          On the ribbon of the Order of the Holy Great Martyr Catherine in the form of a rosette is attached a miniature image of the star of the order made of metal with enamel. The distance between the ends of the opposite rays of the star is 13 mm. The rosette diameter is 15 mm.
          Badge of the Order

          star of the order
          1. cost
            cost 13 September 2020 07: 56 New
            +7
            Now let's see the list of Catherine awarded with this Medvedev Order winked
            Knights of the Order:
            Ilyina, Lyudmila Dmitrievna (Abbess Nicholas) (May 3, 2012, No. 574) - abbess of St. Nicholas Chernoostrovsky nunnery in the town of Maloyaroslavets, Kaluga Diocese of the Russian Orthodox Church.
            Perehozhikh, Nina Nikitichna (May 3, 2012, No. 574) - doctor of the state healthcare institution "Regional Hospital No. 2", Lipetsk Region
            Falz-Fein Eduard Alexandrovich (September 30, 2012, No. 1312), citizen of the Principality of Liechtenstein
            Sarganova, Natalia Vasilievna (February 11, 2013, No. 135) - foster parent, city of Tula
            Yeltsina, Naina Iosifovna (March 14, 2017, No. 111), Moscow [
            Solzhenitsyna, Natalia Dmitrievna (July 17, 2019, No. 337) - President of the Russian Charitable Foundation of Alexander Solzhenitsyn, Moscow
            1. Korsar4
              Korsar4 13 September 2020 10: 28 New
              +8
              By the way, Baron Faltz-Fein is a very curious person. And from the family of founders of the "Askania-Nova" reserve.
              1. Alex013
                Alex013 13 September 2020 11: 23 New
                +8
                From this list, the last two recipients of the order raise questions. As for Baron Faltz-Fein - I agree, he is an interesting personality, with his actions he always emphasized the connection with Russia, contributed to the return of valuable museum exhibits to his homeland, etc.
                1. Astra wild
                  Astra wild 13 September 2020 20: 13 New
                  +5
                  I agree with you: the last 2 ts. "Fly in the ointment", so that there is a reason to doubt the decency of the rest of the awardees
            2. VLR
              13 September 2020 10: 40 New
              14
              The awards to Yeltsin (it is not clear for what merits) and Solzhenitsyna (it is clear for which - anti-Soviet and anti-Russian), in my opinion, largely devalue the significance of this order.
              1. cost
                cost 13 September 2020 11: 02 New
                12
                Greetings, Valery hi
                The awards to Yeltsin (it is not clear for what merits) and Solzhenitsyna (it is clear for which - anti-Soviet and anti-Russian), in my opinion, largely devalue the significance of this order.

                Does the awarding of Gorbachev with the highest state award of the Russian Federation - the Order of St. Andrew the First-Called - do not commend and devalue him?
                My personal opinion is that all these Yeltsin and Medvedev remakes of the orders of the Republic of Ingushetia have been compromised to the point of impossible and absolutely unnecessary.
                There are, in the end, the Golden Stars of the Heroes of the Russian Federation
                1. 3x3zsave
                  3x3zsave 13 September 2020 11: 36 New
                  +7
                  There are, in the end, the Golden Stars of the Heroes of the Russian Federation
                  Perhaps the only status award. The rest of the modern Russian premium phaleristics remains a mystery to me.
                  1. Krasnodar
                    Krasnodar 13 September 2020 18: 09 New
                    +5
                    Quote: 3x3zsave
                    There are, in the end, the Golden Stars of the Heroes of the Russian Federation
                    Perhaps the only status award. The rest of the modern Russian premium phaleristics remains a mystery to me.

                    Considering that it is received by people who have not been on the battlefield and who have not even made friends with the term, I do not know how much of a status it is.
                    1. 3x3zsave
                      3x3zsave 13 September 2020 18: 14 New
                      +4
                      Sometimes those who were the enemy get it.
                    2. cost
                      cost 13 September 2020 19: 59 New
                      +8
                      It is high time to seriously consider the regulation on state awards of the Russian Federation. To put this problem in order:
                      - Once and for all, clearly define the statutes of awards. Eliminate ambiguous interpretation of statutes, so as not to drop the meaning of state awards.
                      - To prohibit all departmental state awards, otherwise the "candy wrappers" are already dazzling in the eyes.
                      -Remove "unnecessary and repeating by their statutes already existing ones, such as Andrei and Ekaterina and the like. But" George ", moreover, is sedate, IMHO must be introduced
                      PS No other country in the world has such an "assortment" of state awards as in the Russian Federation, they cost three to five
                      1. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 13 September 2020 20: 22 New
                        +4
                        No other country in the world has such a "range" of state awards,
                        There is a country called the United States of America. Apparently, the RF award system was copied from there. But only two awards are honored there: "Purple Heart" and "Congress Medal".
                2. VLR
                  13 September 2020 12: 27 New
                  11
                  I, too, do not understand this monkey behavior. "Do not pour new wine into old skins." All these orders named after saints, by the way, contradict the article of the Constitution on the secular nature of the state and are somewhat inappropriate in a multi-confessional state. I can understand why the Order of Lenin was canceled, but what did the Order of the Red Banner do not please? Well, they would call it neutral: "Order of the Russian Battle Banner." Also on the Order of the Red Star. If you don't like the red one, let it be the Russian star. Etc.
                  1. 3x3zsave
                    3x3zsave 13 September 2020 12: 44 New
                    +8
                    With military awards in the Russian Federation is generally somehow "sour" ...
                    1. hohol95
                      hohol95 13 September 2020 23: 22 New
                      +5
                      Order of Suvorov, Order of Ushakov, Order of Zhukov, Order of Kutuzov, Order of Nakhimov, Order of Courage, Order of Military Merit, Badge of Honor - St. George's Cross of 4 degrees, Medal of Courage, Suvorov Medal, Ushakov Medal, Zhukov Medal, Nesterov Medal, Medal "For Distinction in the Protection of the State Border".
                      Dear Anton!
                      Do you think that it is not enough and you still need to come up with a couple or three medals and orders?
                      hi
                      1. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 14 September 2020 08: 38 New
                        +6
                        Hello, Alexey!
                        Studied the question. Yes, there are more of them. However, after reading several materials about the modern Russian reward system, one gets the impression of a sad anecdote about "fake Christmas tree toys".
                      2. hohol95
                        hohol95 14 September 2020 18: 23 New
                        +3
                        You, Anton know better! I don't even get a reward for saving a drowning man. I swim like a cartoon hero Maui (like an ax)
                        And let the specialists think, decide, make changes!
                      3. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 14 September 2020 18: 48 New
                        +5
                        Yes nifiga I don't know better!
                        It's just that when you realize that the current leader of Chechnya, who shot at my peers, is a Hero of Russia, and senior lieutenant Elin, who died in Syria, for some unknown reason, and who received, posthumously, an incomprehensible "hanging", a cognitive dissonance arises, and the question is: what for Are these "TRP badges" needed?
                      4. hohol95
                        hohol95 14 September 2020 23: 18 New
                        +1
                        And how did they “thank” his predecessor, Imam Shamil?
                        On August 30, 1869, Shamil was elevated to the hereditary nobility by the highest decree.
                      5. hohol95
                        hohol95 14 September 2020 23: 25 New
                        +1
                        And what does the order of Kutuzov not suit you?
                        He is above the Order of Courage by statute.
                        By closed decrees the Order of Kutuzov was awarded to Major Generals Aleksey Rostislavovich Kim, Sergei Yurievich Kuzovlev, Valery Nikolaevich Solodchuk, as well as Major Rafael Khusnulin. By Decree No. 489 of August 18, 2018, the order was posthumously awarded to Senior Lieutenant Sergei Yuryevich Yelin (1986-2018), who died while performing combat missions in the Syrian Arab Republic.
            3. Trilobite Master
              Trilobite Master 13 September 2020 13: 10 New
              +5
              Quote: VlR
              All these orders named after saints, by the way, contradict the article of the Constitution on the secular nature of the state and are somewhat inappropriate in a multi-confessional state.

              Agree to 100%.
              To these orders, at a minimum, you need to add the order of Ali ibn Abu Talib for Muslims, and, for example, the Order of Hanuman for Buddhists. smile
              But seriously, the names "Order of Courage", "Order of Glory" (military or labor), and the like, seem to me the most suitable for state awards - without religion and politics.
              1. hohol95
                hohol95 13 September 2020 23: 04 New
                +3
                George cross for Muslims
                On August 19, 1844, Emperor Nicholas I signed a decree on the establishment in the Russian Imperial Army of a special St. George Cross for Mohammedans (Muslims) and persons of non-Christian confession.
                On this award, instead of St. George the slaying snake, a two-headed eagle was depicted. In order, as they say: "to spare the religious feelings of the Gentiles", because St. George is a Christian Saint.
                For example, when the highlanders, seeing what crosses the Cossacks and Russian soldiers have, said when they were awarded with such a special St. George's Cross: “I don’t want a crust with a bird, I want a crust with a dzhigit”, meaning by "dzhigit" St. George striking a snake.

                I heard that some officers of the Jewish nation refused to be awarded the "Order of Bogdan Khmelnitsky" during the Second World War. Is it so? Maybe fables ..
            4. Astra wild
              Astra wild 13 September 2020 20: 29 New
              +3
              Valery, here I do not agree with you: if you rename the order, then you will change the appearance. Can you imagine the Order of the Red Banner with the tricolor? I personally cannot. If you rename it will be some kind of sur: in the Russian Federation, all Soviet symbols are abolished, and a revolutionary banner is depicted.
              1. cost
                cost 14 September 2020 19: 42 New
                +1
                Vera, you did not quite understand Valery correctly. He meant to transfer the statute of KZ to the Order of the Russian Battle Banner with the KZ block And the very appearance of which let the mint artists lay out for public discussion.
            5. Ryazan87
              Ryazan87 14 September 2020 02: 03 New
              +2
              Order of the Red Banner

              The BKZ has 100% ideological attachment. As, by the way, and the Order of the Red Star.
              Why should the Soviet awards be preserved (the way in a slightly revised form), and the awards of the Russian Empire (by the way, a multi-confessional state) cannot be revived?
          2. sunzhenets
            sunzhenets 14 September 2020 16: 01 New
            +1
            [/ Quote]
            There are, in the end, the Golden Stars of the Heroes of the Russian Federation [/ quote]
            Who are also compromised by the awarding of the academician infantryman and a number of his accomplices
        2. Trilobite Master
          Trilobite Master 13 September 2020 12: 24 New
          +4
          Do we have, if you think about it, awards that are not devalued by their gentlemen? Probably, for each award, you can find a character for which you are ashamed of being awarded. Is that the Order of Victory ...
          1. Krasnodar
            Krasnodar 13 September 2020 18: 12 New
            +5
            Quote: Trilobite Master
            Do we have, if you think about it, awards that are not devalued by their gentlemen? Probably, for each award, you can find a character for which you are ashamed of being awarded. Is that the Order of Victory ...

            King Mihai of Romania
            1. Trilobite Master
              Trilobite Master 13 September 2020 18: 23 New
              +4
              After all, not Solzhenitsyn or Gorbachev with Andrew the First-Called.
              1. Krasnodar
                Krasnodar 13 September 2020 18: 59 New
                +3
                Quote: Trilobite Master
                After all, not Solzhenitsyn or Gorbachev with Andrew the First-Called.

                Not only benefit
                1. Trilobite Master
                  Trilobite Master 13 September 2020 20: 35 New
                  +5
                  In my opinion, quite a decent person. Maybe he is not attracted to such an order, but, in any case, it does not disgrace for sure. smile
                2. Krasnodar
                  Krasnodar 13 September 2020 22: 31 New
                  +5
                  Quote: Trilobite Master
                  In my opinion, quite a decent person. Maybe he is not attracted to such an order, but, in any case, it does not disgrace for sure. smile

                  Not a shame - for sure. Arrested Antonescu at the approach of the Red Army and declared war on Germany. Otherwise, Romania would have been destroyed, and he would most likely have been hanged.
                3. Liam
                  Liam 13 September 2020 23: 05 New
                  +1
                  Quote: Krasnodar
                  Romania would be destroyed

                  It would have cost hundreds of thousands of Soviet soldiers' lives.
                  Don't forget about Romanian oil and its importance for the Wehrmacht.
                  Py Sy. In addition to the Order of Victory (and in its status it is clearly written for what it was given), he was also awarded the American Legion of Merit. Romania's exit from the war was considered very important by all
                4. Krasnodar
                  Krasnodar 13 September 2020 23: 26 New
                  +4
                  Was reading. That he helped everyone - of course. But first of all for myself and my country.
                5. Liam
                  Liam 13 September 2020 23: 50 New
                  0
                  In principle, this is the task of the ruler - to help first of all himself and his country)
                6. Krasnodar
                  Krasnodar 13 September 2020 23: 58 New
                  +3
                  Yes, I do not argue - the question is in a dilemma. The Order of Victory to the head of a former hostile state - despite the real, tangible benefit to the cause.
                7. Liam
                  Liam 14 September 2020 00: 08 New
                  +1
                  Comrade Stalin was a great opportunist and did not differ in particular scrupulousness and principles in the choice of enemies and allies. All his enemies became allies and vice versa)
                8. Krasnodar
                  Krasnodar 14 September 2020 00: 14 New
                  0
                  Comrade Stalin is a former bandit. And among the bandits, all unions are created only out of interest - this or that. But, given the fact that the state is the greatest instrument of violence, Iosif Vissarionovich led the policy of a real statesman))
                9. Krasnoyarsk
                  Krasnoyarsk 14 September 2020 14: 21 New
                  +1
                  Quote: Krasnodar
                  Comrade Stalin is a former bandit.

                  "What will be your evidence?"
                  Or someone decided to make a curtsy?
                10. Krasnodar
                  Krasnodar 14 September 2020 15: 59 New
                  0
                  lol
                  Read the biography of Comrade Stalin - links, escapes, organizing a robbery with the aim of replenishing the party cash (by the hands of Kamo, who later fled to Germany), etc.
                11. Krasnoyarsk
                  Krasnoyarsk 14 September 2020 18: 23 New
                  0
                  Quote: Krasnodar
                  lol
                  Read the biography of Comrade Stalin - links, escapes, organizing a robbery with the aim of replenishing the party cash (by the hands of Kamo, who later fled to Germany), etc.

                  Let's start with the fact that Stalin was not sentenced to exile for a criminal offense, and therefore, for this he cannot be called a bandit. Escape from exile is also not a criminal offense. Organizing a robbery to replenish the party fund? And do you have proof of this? Speaking of Kamo. He robbed the loot from the people and gave it to the cashier of the party, which later gave a lot to the people. and did not appropriate anything for himself personally. And you, through the rise in prices, rob the people and take the loot for yourself. Can you tell the difference between you and Kamo?
                12. Krasnodar
                  Krasnodar 14 September 2020 18: 53 New
                  0
                  Escape from exile - pure administration laughing
                  In Tiflis, Stalin began planning a robbery. He established contact with two individuals with inside information about the activities of the State Bank: a bank clerk named Gigo Kasradze and an old school friend of Stalin named Voznesensky, who worked at the Tiflis bank post office. Voznesensky later stated that he helped in the theft because of his admiration for Stalin's romantic poems. Voznesensky worked in the Tiflis bank post office, giving him access to a secret timetable, which indicated at what time the stagecoach transfers cash to the Tiflis branch of the State Bank. Voznesensky notified Stalin that on June 26, 1907, the bank would receive a large batch of money in a horse-drawn carriage.

                  Etc.
                  Link - https://ru.qwe.wiki/wiki/1907_Tiflis_bank_robbery

                  I catch the difference - one appropriates other people's money for the best purpose, killing many people (in this particular case), and I deliver people goods and services that without me it would be difficult for them to get and get hold of)). It's amazing that I don't do this for free lol
                  The stagecoach drove through the crowded square at about 10:30. Kupriashvili gave a signal, and the robbers hit the carriage with grenades, killing many horses and guards, and began shooting at the guards guarding the stagecoach and the square
                13. Krasnoyarsk
                  Krasnoyarsk 14 September 2020 23: 02 New
                  +1
                  Quote: Krasnodar
                  laughing
                  In Tiflis, Stalin began planning a robbery. He established contact with two persons who have inside information about the activities of the State Bank:

                  These tales might not have told me. Korotich, in the "Ogonyok" magazine, told that drunk Budyonny, on horseback, drove into his bedroom. These are all bikes from the same series. Make the founders of the USSR and its defenders monsters. And the fact that under the king thousands died from cold, hunger, disease, were illiterate, worked for a pittance for 12-14 hours, were completely powerless, this does not count. The main thing is that they threw grenades and killed "people and horses" (!!!)
                  You remind me of a German who was outraged that our soldiers killed his pig to feed themselves. (It seems the film is called "It was the month of May.") And he expressed his indignation to the officer. To which our officer replied - yes, you cannot kill pigs, people can.
                  Quote: Krasnodar

                  I catch the difference - one appropriates other people's money for the best purpose,

                  And you read Nasedkin's story "The Great Beggars". There, about "other people's money" is well told.
                  Quote: Krasnodar
                  and I deliver to people goods and services that are difficult for them without me

                  Surprisingly, you, I mean the current traders, were not in the USSR, but the goods were somehow delivered to us. And the state was engaged in pricing, and not the left leg of the "entrepreneur-merchant", which is officially called the market.
                14. Krasnodar
                  Krasnodar 14 September 2020 23: 19 New
                  0

                  Later, the role of Stalin was called into question by fellow revolutionaries Boris Nikolaevsky and Leon Trotsky. The latter, Stalin's rival, was later killed on Stalin's orders. In his book Stalin: An Assessment of Man and His Influence, Trotsky analyzed many publications describing the expropriation of Tiflis and other hostilities of the Bolsheviks of that time, and came to the conclusion: “Others fought; Stalin watched them from afar

                  Just in Soviet times there was a myth about Stalin's heroic participation in this event - but Trotsky considered Koba an organizer, but not a fighter, exposing this as a factor discrediting Joseph Vissarionovich fellow
                  As for tsarism, I completely and completely agree, but it was not the Bolsheviks who removed the monarch from power. They have usurped power - yes. And they did the right thing.
                  Did I remind you of the German? lol So you yourself say that it is good to kill people in order to replenish the party money ... do not you remind yourself of anyone?
                  As for the merchants in the USSR - well, yes, there was a far from equal distribution of squalor, because of which people were not allowed into the capitalist countries (only party members, in a group, and the family at home, like an anchor). For the left leg of the merchant provided the workers of the decaying West with what even the party elite of the Union could afford to very little extent)). Which, in principle, was one of the reasons for its collapse.
                15. Krasnoyarsk
                  Krasnoyarsk 15 September 2020 20: 04 New
                  0
                  Quote: Krasnodar

                  Just in Soviet times there was a myth about Stalin's heroic participation in this event - but Trotsky considered Koba an organizer, but

                  I lived for almost 40 years in Soviet times, but I don't know anything about such a myth.
                  Quote: Krasnodar
                  but Trotsky considered Koba an organizer, but not a fighter, exposing this as a factor discrediting Joseph Vissarionovich

                  Nonsense. What do you mean - not a fighter? Was Trotsky a fighter? What does it mean to be a fighter for a high-ranking leader? Himself in hand-to-hand combat? The idiot blurted out, and you repeat after him. negative
                  Quote: Krasnodar
                  But it was not the Bolsheviks who removed the monarch from power.

                  Is that the point?
                  Quote: Krasnodar
                  They have usurped power - yes. And they did the right thing.

                  Did the interim government not usurp power? Or can they?
                  Quote: Krasnodar

                  So you yourself say that it is good to kill people in order to replenish the party money ...

                  Did he say so? You, for an hour, do not write anything in the style of fantasy? You could do it. Very imaginative, very much.
                  Quote: Krasnodar

                  As for the merchants in the USSR - well, yes, there was a far from equal distribution of squalor, because of which people were not allowed into the capitalist countries (only party members, in a group, and the family at home, like an anchor). For the left leg of the merchant provided the workers of the decaying West with what even the party elite of the Union could afford to very little extent)). Which, in principle, was one of the reasons for its collapse.

                  I am amazed at your superficiality. As one hero of one film advised - you need to look wider and deeper. hi
                16. Krasnodar
                  Krasnodar 15 September 2020 23: 01 New
                  0
                  1) I lived only 14 years in Soviet times, and I learned about Kobe, as a former Robin Hood, from 10 recourse
                  2) This is not the point - many revolutionaries, deservedly or not, in the USSR were surrounded by a romantic halo - we taught about Lenin in school (!) How he deceived the gendarmes, for example. And Trotsky is difficult to call a half-wit - read about him.
                  3) The interim government removed the monarch and did the right thing. The Bolsheviks threw it off and did the right thing too.
                  4) And who wrote about a good robbery with the murder of innocent people in the name of a noble goal - me, or what? laughing
                  5) Where is the superficiality here? The system built by the Soviet communists became entangled in its economic inefficiency, lies, and the prohibitions created in connection with this. As a result, it collapsed. About the traders, etc. - Each person has a role to play in the country's economy. The land must have a master - then it is fertile. The merchant should buy up the goods produced by the peasant and deliver it to the buyer at an adequate price. If they are not diligent, nimble and neat, they will simply go broke. The collective farms could not provide the country with agricultural products in the required volumes, the Soviet trade workers artificially, in many cases, created a deficit for personal gain or received less goods due to the state distribution system. This is if you look deeper hi
                17. Krasnoyarsk
                  Krasnoyarsk 16 September 2020 07: 54 New
                  +1
                  Quote: Krasnodar


                  1) I lived only 14 years in Soviet times, and I learned about Kobe, as a former Robin Hood, from 10

                  Well then, everything is correct - children's perception of the information received. I remember reading Charles de Coster's The Legend of Ulenspiegel at the age of 11, and then rereading it in adulthood. Heaven and earth. A completely different perception.
                  Quote: Krasnodar
                  And Trotsky is difficult to call a half-wit - read about him.

                  ????? If I tell someone about you, will it be objective? Read Trotsky himself, what he talked about, what he dreamed of, what he proposed, what he did and compare with reality, and you will have your own, subjective, opinion about him. And it will be slightly different from what others write about it.
                  Quote: Krasnodar

                  4) And who wrote about a good robbery with the murder of innocent people in the name of a noble goal - me, or what?

                  Quote !!! Will you be so kind.
                  Quote: Krasnodar
                  Where is the superficiality here?

                  Yes, everything is right there.
                  If you have sharp pains in the lower abdomen on the right, then you tell the doctor about this pain, and not about the fact that yesterday you cut your finger while slicing a loaf.
                  I do not deny that there was enough negativity in the USSR, but having eliminated this negativity, we today received another, more painful for people who are not traders, negative.
                  You do not agree? hi
                18. Krasnodar
                  Krasnodar 16 September 2020 13: 23 New
                  0
                  1) Children's - not children's - Stalin expropriated bourgeois money through a graben for the benefit of the revolution
                  2) I read Trotsky's My Life. He said the absolutely correct thing - if the revolution is not spread to the industrially developed countries of Europe and the world, socialism in Russia will be a temporary phenomenon.
                  3) [/ b] about Kamo. He robbed the loot from the people and gave it to the cashier of the party, which later gave a lot to the people [b] hi
                  4) Aren't traders people? laughing The USSR had to be smoothly transferred onto a capitalist track, allowing the traders to earn money in a controlled manner and leaving the monopoly on heavy industry to the state. Instead, they did anything but take care of the population
                19. Krasnoyarsk
                  Krasnoyarsk 16 September 2020 21: 21 New
                  0
                  Quote: Krasnodar


                  1) Children's - not children's - Stalin expropriated bourgeois money through a graben for the benefit of the revolution

                  Why Stalin? Aaa, of course, the RSDLP consisted of one Stalin. Then yes, then everything fits together. laughing
                  Quote: Krasnodar

                  2) I read Trotsky's My Life. He said the absolutely correct thing - if the revolution is not spread to the industrially developed countries of Europe and the world, socialism in Russia will be a temporary phenomenon.

                  He said absolute nonsense! Socialism In the USSR, they were killed by the Social Democrats, Trotskyists and Bukharinites in one bottle, who led the CPSU. And the presence of the French SSR and the German SSR could not prevent this in any way.
                  Quote: Krasnodar

                  3) [/ b] about Kamo. He robbed the loot from the people and gave it to the cashier of the party, which later gave a lot to the people [b]

                  Well? What's wrong?
                  Quote: Krasnodar
                  Aren't traders people?

                  Of course - people, but ... - traders.
                  Quote: Krasnodar
                  to the state. Instead, they did anything but take care of the population

                  And really, well, no concern for people! And only for me the state made an exception. Together with a diploma of graduation from secondary education, I was given a DIRECTION TO WORK (!) But I was "capricious" and did not want to go to a prestigious plant (in my city it was the most advanced). So I went to the mountains. executive committee and there they corrected the direction to the plant which I indicated. And I was hired without any questions as an apprentice electrician. Those. where I wanted to. I learned to work and I was paid for it! In addition, my mentor was paid for teaching me.
                  My father worked at the same plant. When I was still a kid, I didn’t go to school yet, he brought skates and boots. I put my boots in my boots and I skated all winter. In which plant today his employee can take sports for FREE. inventory? At school I used to take skis all the time. Anytime. I just put my signature that I took it. In a modern school, in a state that cares a lot about people, can you take skis like this for a ride?
                  My first vacation was 15 working days, after 8 years - 18, and after 15 - 24 working days. If the plan "burned" the bosses almost on their knees persuaded us to "grab" after the shift (after 17.00) and or go out on Saturday to work. If they agreed, then for every 4 hours of overtime, paid time off.
                  My son was born, at the age of 2 he took him to kindergarten. I paid 18 rubles for this. per month. At that time, my salary was, on average, 190 rubles.
                  How much do you pay for the kindergarten?
                  Received a 4-room apartment. All utilities, without el. energy, 24 rubles per month. With round the clock hot water. At that time, my salary was 260 rubles.
                  How much does housing and communal services cost you today?
                  The plant had its own clinic. Every year - a medical examination. Fluorography - in a railway carriage, driven into the territory of the plant. Own recreation center. On one side there is a pine forest, on the other - a river. Houses for 2, 4 and 6 people. There is a refrigerator in the house, el. tile. Bed is given by the manager. You can take a voucher for 2 days off, you can take a whole vacation. The factory bus takes you on Friday at 18.00 and returns at 18.00 on Sunday. All this pleasure is worth it: if a plant worker - 6 rubles per person. If you take a non-factory worker with you - 10 rubles. Don't forget - this is with meals in the dining room! 2x dinner, 2x breakfast and 2x lunch. Well, they didn't care about people at all!
                  In addition, the plant had 90 kindergartens, a school, a vocational school in 2.
                  Does your company have a recreation center? Not! Okay, this is a small business. But do you buy vouchers for the children of your employees to summer recreation centers? I am sure - no! Your spiritual brother, the owner of the plant, is also nothing for your workers; to recreation centers, no kindergarten, no vouchers. Nothing!!!
                  His son works for him. For 12 hours. And on Saturday - a must! Does he live better than me in his years? Not at all! I lived better !!!
                  I had an operation 3 years ago, something went wrong. Three days later, another one. For these operations, the state, which is very caring for people, with officially free medicine ripped me off like a stick. In Soviet times, all this would not have cost me a penny. I can still continue as Sov. the state did not care about people. I'm afraid you won't sleep well after that.
                20. Krasnodar
                  Krasnodar 16 September 2020 23: 40 New
                  0
                  1) Not at all: Lenin's romantic halo is a deception of the gendarmes;
                  Stalin - robbery.
                  2) Not at all - the Soviet Union was killed by the construction of socialism in a single country. The presence of the German, Italian, French and American SSRs would not give bad examples of a much higher standard of living for the working people of the FRG, France and the USA.
                  3) That is, you are justifying robbery with the corpses of innocent people for the sake of building a more perfect society?
                  4) What's wrong with the hucksters? laughing This is not an easy job in a tough competitive environment that requires constant self-education, overcoming various factors beyond your control and irregular employment. ))
                  5) a) I agree - there is a good job referral. Taking into account the request of a person's requirements and material incentives for learning is also excellent. good
                  b) Now there is an opportunity to earn money for the purchase of any skis, the range of which is much larger than in the USSR.
                  c) I pay 210 rubles a month for something for a child for a kindergarten that is within walking distance from me.
                  d) My company does not have a canteen, a recreation center, a kindergarten, or a school. But there is an opportunity to make money for people on everything listed by you according to their choice.
                  e) Better - a relative concept. His son can fly on vacation even to the Crimea, even to Paris, allowing himself the desired level of comfort. Desired - not offered by the state, a factory, or someone else's uncle. Can watch live kangaroos in their natural habitats, maybe at penguins.
                  You in his years could not allow the set.
                  f) Has it taken away, how sticky, in the presence of OMS?
                  g) Yes, I know about Soviet Medicine, the beggarly wages of an engineer, canteens in kindergartens, where the first months I always vomited from the quality of food, etc. I remember the USSR. There were certainly good things. But, unlike you, I have seen other capitalism in other countries that can be built in Russia.
  • Astra wild
    Astra wild 13 September 2020 21: 40 New
    +4
    Mikhail "Trilobite", in fact, some kind of devaluation of orders began in the 70s and continues now.
    Although I was and am Soviet, in fairness, under the tsar, military awards were given only in combat conditions. It was also in the 30s and early
    WWII, then the awards were really AWARDS.
    R.
    S
    I respected the Heroes of the Soviet Union very much, but there were cases when such an award was presented to future traitors. The site was reminded that there is a book: "Deprived of the title of Hero of the Soviet Union" or similar
    1. VLR
      13 September 2020 22: 02 New
      +5
      Under the king, awards were given only for military merit? Oh, how wrong you are. The kings themselves, by the way, received the highest order of St. Andrew the First-Called immediately after birth.
    2. Krasnodar
      Krasnodar 13 September 2020 22: 36 New
      +3
      Quote: Astra wild
      Mikhail "Trilobite", in fact, some kind of devaluation of orders began in the 70s and continues now.
      Although I was and am Soviet, in fairness, under the tsar, military awards were given only in combat conditions. It was also in the 30s and early
      WWII, then the awards were really AWARDS.
      R.
      S
      I respected the Heroes of the Soviet Union very much, but there were cases when such an award was presented to future traitors. The site was reminded that there is a book: "Deprived of the title of Hero of the Soviet Union" or similar

      In 1956, the Hero of the Soviet Union was given to Nasser for losing to Britons, Franks and Jews.
      1. Alex013
        Alex013 13 September 2020 23: 50 New
        +2
        Vladimir Semenovich also wrote about this)
        1. Krasnodar
          Krasnodar 13 September 2020 23: 56 New
          +2
          Gamal Abdel on all Nasser))
        2. Alex013
          Alex013 14 September 2020 00: 13 New
          +2
          Precisely noticed!
  • hohol95
    hohol95 13 September 2020 23: 11 New
    +3
    Order of St. Catherine (female), 1714 (year of establishment) - awarded 724. Awarded for:
    Awarded ladies of high society for socially useful and charitable activities, as well as grand duchesses by birthright.
    Restored in Russia as a state award in 2012.
  • hohol95
    hohol95 13 September 2020 23: 13 New
    +3
    Order of St. Stanislaus, 1831 - hundreds of thousands awarded:
    Polish order, founded in 1765 and included in the system of Russian awards after the annexation of the Kingdom of Poland to the empire. The most massive order for awarding, first of all, officials.
  • Astra wild
    Astra wild 13 September 2020 19: 59 New
    +2
    Dmitry "Rich", I'm sorry, but who drew these silhouettes? That they are in no way similar to the ladies of the 18th century. I would say that these silhouettes are not earlier than 70-80s of the last century
    1. cost
      cost 13 September 2020 20: 17 New
      +3
      and who drew these silhouettes?

      Absolutely no idea. In Peter's Decree of 1714, of course, there are no silhouettes, the order of wearing and the color of the ribbon is simply described.
  • KVU-NSVD
    KVU-NSVD 13 September 2020 07: 38 New
    +7
    Now it is easy to argue that, they say, Rumyantsov was able to get out, and Peter was running around the camp in hysterics. People there were experienced, fighting, past Swedes. Another thing is that the entire campaign was initially an adventure that led not even to defeat, but to almost disgrace. Without proper preparation, they pushed into the steppe, and right up to the Danube (!) And lost the army before seeing the enemy. Left in fact in the rear of the Krymchaks. The army is not the most powerful and the cavalry for the steppe campaigns is catastrophically small. And the hope for help from the poor and militarily powerless Moldovans is generally beyond understanding. For me, there is only one reason for this campaign. With all my respect for him, Peter's head was dizzy from the success of Poltava and the first Narva with its same problems of disorganization and chaos in everything went out of his head. I decided to hang on to the Turks on the move ... it didn't work. Well, nothing - for the broken two unbeaten give ... soon the Ottomans will start raking in full ..
    1. Astra wild
      Astra wild 13 September 2020 20: 05 New
      +1
      "they will start raking in full" Actually, this question has already been raised recently. The Turkish Empire was still strong then
  • Captivity
    Captivity 13 September 2020 07: 54 New
    +2
    Peter 1 was too light-minded about this campaign. But there were all the chances to win.
  • cost
    cost 13 September 2020 08: 05 New
    +4
    Baltacı Mehmed Pasha (tur. Baltacı Mehmed Paşa; was a great visitor of the Ottoman Empire twice
    from December 25, 1704 to May 3, 1706, then from August 18, 1710 to November 20, 1711.
    Mehmed Pasha
    1. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave 13 September 2020 09: 56 New
      +4
      then from August 18, 1710 to November 20, 1711
      Hello Dmitry!
      Some kind of inconsistency in the dates turns out, don't you think?
      1. cost
        cost 13 September 2020 10: 37 New
        +4
        Greetings Anton
        Some kind of inconsistency in the dates turns out, don't you think?

        I do not find.
        Mehmed Pasha was removed from his post in 1706 and handed over the state seal to Damad Chorlul Ali Pasha. And in 1710 he became the grand vizier for the second time. displacing Kyupryulizade Damat Numan Pasha.
        And on November 20, 1711 he was replaced by Aga Yusuf Pasha. I don't see an error, explain
        1. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 13 September 2020 10: 42 New
          +4
          Oh, excuse me generously! repeat You are all right! It was me, a woodpecker, instead of 1710 I saw 1711 ...
  • Olgovich
    Olgovich 13 September 2020 08: 30 New
    +3
    In general, the picture is simple apocalyptic: the tsar allegedly runs around the camp "like a madman" and cannot even say a word, but the officers' wives howl loudly.


    Nonsense: along with negotiations, preparations were underway for a breakthrough: orders were given:
    "Prepare for the march by 4 o'clock in the afternoon: take as many cartridges and buckshot as possible, and if there are not enough bullets, cut iron; officers have packs: wives ride on horseback: leave everything superfluous, and using horses for soldiers and poor officers: beat thin horses and boil or bake meat: break heavy artillery and bombs and throw them into the water: divide the food equally to the regiments and carry it and meat to yourself "

    like a madman ran up and down the camp, hitting his chest and could not utter a word. Most thought it was a blow with him. "
    Indeed, it is very similar to a pre-stroke state.

    The first time I hear about such signs of "pre-stroke state"

    According to Erebo, on July 21 he only

    "I ran up and down the camp, beat my chest and could not utter a word."

    О writes the same Yust Yul:

    And what can an excellent secretary and .... his boss write?
    But in a similar situation at Kahul in 1770, 17 thousand soldiers and several thousand Cossacks under the command of P. A. Rumyantsev themselves attacked the 150-thousand Turkish-Tatar army that surrounded them - and defeated it.

    But Rumyantsev did not make a 1400 kilometer march and was not pressed to the river and surrounded without provisions.

    And yes, Peter was in no hurry to fulfill the terms of the contract - he did not give Azov and did not tear Taganrog right away, and only the threat of a new war in 1712 from the side of the Port forced them to fulfill them: there was not enough strength both to the North and to the South

    The mistakes of Peter I had to be corrected by Anna Ioannovna, unloved by our historians, during whose reign P. Lassi and B. Minich made their campaigns, Ochakov and Perekop were taken, Bakhchisarai was burned, Russia returned Azov and the lost southern lands.

    Yeah, Bakhchisarai and Perekop were returned back to the khanate (with the loss of half of the army), while Azov was returned without the right to have a fleet.
    1. VLR
      13 September 2020 08: 49 New
      +5
      1. That's right, while Peter was running around the camp, his generals were preparing the troops for a possible attack and breakthrough, this is clearly stated in the article
      2. And who forced Peter to make a 1400-km campaign, and who is to blame for the fact that his army did not have provisions and fodder? Brigadier Moro de Brace, Danish envoy Just Juhl, poet Pushkin or the emperor himself?
      But Allart at the Dniester urged Peter to stop, drawing direct analogies with the recent Ukrainian campaign of Charles XII.
      3. He was not in a hurry to fulfill the conditions of the shameful peace, but he did ...
      No comment. As associations come to mind with a girl who at first "broke a little," but ...
      4. Lassi and Minich, despite the losses, won. And their victories had a huge impact on Russian society, which realized that you can fight and win with the Turks. Lomonosov wrote an ode to the capture of Khotin. Minich and Lassi laid the foundation, did what was considered almost impossible, without their victories there would have been no victories for Rumyantsev and Suvorov. And why did Peter I lose half of the army during the Prut campaign?
      1. Olgovich
        Olgovich 13 September 2020 09: 13 New
        -3
        Quote: VlR
        That's right, while Peter was running around the camp, his generals prepared troops for possible attack and breakout, this is clearly stated in the article

        By order of PETER. Or, in your opinion, are these decisions of the generals possible .... without a tsar? belay

        And yes, nothing is clearly said, except for the "crazy running" king.
        Which, yes, gave at the same time, oddly enough for you, detailed instructions diplomats and military
        Quote: VlR
        And who forced Peter to make a 1400-km campaign, and who is to blame for the fact that his army did not have provisions and fodder? Brigadier Moro de Brace, Danish envoy Just Juhl, poet Pushkin or the emperor himself?

        WHERE is the similarity of the situation between Rumyantsev and Peter, stated by you? belay
        Quote: VlR
        He was not in a hurry to fulfill the conditions of the shameful peace, but he did ...
        No comment. As associations come to mind with a girl who at first "broke a little," but ...

        Associations, they are, yes: "To the bride and the mare" (with)
        Quote: VlR
        Lassi and Minich, despite the losses, won

        The most shameful flight from .... "captured" Crimea, with the most senseless loss of TENS of thousands of people, is this .... a victory? belay
        WHAT is accomplished from the Minich ultimatum:
        to surrender oneself under the patronage of Her Majesty the Empress, to let the Russian garrison into Perekop and to recognize the dominion of Russia over oneself.
        , but?
        Quote: VlR
        that you can fight and win with the Turks
        Yeah, before that the Turks "did not win" lol Azov, Taganrog and others, are you unknown?
        Quote: VlR
        And why did Peter I lose half of the army during the Prut campaign?


        For what he acquired in other wars, see. Petersburg, the Baltic states, etc.

        Without this, Russia would be within the Moscow kingdom, yes ...
        1. VLR
          13 September 2020 09: 43 New
          +5
          The similarity of the situation of Peter and Rumyantsev - firstly, there is a certain, Rumyantsev also experienced problems with food and fodder, but expected a baggage train. And while he was waiting - his army was surrounded. And he fought in battle under similar circumstances.
          Secondly, Peter could plan his campaign. He could have expected the Turks at the crossings near the Dnieper - experts consider this to be the best option. When approaching the Dnieper, the Ottoman army would be similar to the Russian one at the Prut. He could stay near the Dniester, also controlling the crossings, taking measures to supply food, preparing a position for battle. But, as you know, he went further, and even divided his forces. And that was his and only his decision.
          Peter managed and managed to correct the Narva catastrophe. But Prutskaya did not even try, apparently, after the Prut, where the Russian army could die, and the tsar could be captured, the fear of everyone, and of himself, was very great. And this fear of the Ottomans was overcome precisely by the victories of Minich and Lassi.
          1. Olgovich
            Olgovich 13 September 2020 11: 13 New
            +3
            Quote: VlR
            The similarity of the situation of Peter and Rumyantsev - firstly, there is a certain, Rumyantsev also experienced problems with food and fodder, but expected a baggage train. But as I expected, his army was surrounded. And he fought in battle under similar circumstances.

            I waited for food, but waited ... for the unification of the forces of the Turks.

            But this did not save them, because the situation in 1770 in KORNA was different from the situation in 1711: Russia firmly established itself in Moldova and even Wallachia more in 1769 г :, took Khotin, Byrlad and even BUCHAREST, etc., Turks already were beaten many times at Khotin, Pockmarked Tomb, Larga, etc.

            "Looks like" yeah


            Quote: VlR
            Secondly, Peter could plan his campaign. He could have expected the Turks at the crossings near the Dnieper - experts consider this to be the best option. When approaching the Dnieper, the Ottoman army would be similar to the Russian one at the Prut. He could stay near the Dniester, also controlling the crossings, taking measures to supply food, preparing a position for battle. But, as you know, he went further, and even divided his forces. And that was his and only his decision.


            And in the Northern War he went and won.

            And I would argue how you - in the place of Petersburg, the Swedes would still rule.
            Quote: VlR
            Peter managed and managed to correct the Narva catastrophe. But Prutskaya did not even try, apparently, after the Prut, where the Russian army could die, and the tsar could be captured, the fear of everyone, and of himself, was very great. And this fear of the Ottomans was overcome precisely by the victories of Minich and Lassi.

            1. What ... "fear"? Elementary STRs were not enough for the North and South. Seve was a priority and right.

            The time of the South came a little later.

            And yes: Sultan Ahmed III, dissatisfied with the Peace of Prut, deposed the "winner" of the Grand Vizier Mehmed Baltaji and sent him into exile on the island of Rhodeswhere he was strangled.

            2. The most infamous "victory" is Minich's campaign to the Crimea.

            As a result of those "victories" in the Belgrade peace, Russia ... lost access to the Black Sea ...
            1. VLR
              13 September 2020 12: 18 New
              +3
              In the Northern War, Peter thoughtlessly climbed only once - to Narva. And then he acted extremely carefully and prudently. Therefore, I won.
              According to the Belgrade Peace, Russia could not lose access to the Black Sea, because after the Prut Peace it did not have it (and to the Azov Peace either).
              And for some reason you have a direct Pikulev attitude towards Minich. And this is a very extraordinary and talented person who did a lot in Russia "for the first time."
              Apparently, you need to write about him. Yes, the next article, sorry, will be about Minich. Well, we'll hook Lassi a little, if possible.
              1. Olgovich
                Olgovich 13 September 2020 13: 09 New
                +2
                Quote: VlR
                In the Northern War, Peter thoughtlessly climbed only once - to Narva. And then he acted exceptionally carefully and prudently

                The next year he again invaded the same Ingermanland.

                And the Russian rowing fleet (99 galleys, scampaways and auxiliary vessels off the eastern coast of the Gangut (in Tverminna Bay) against the Swedish fleet (15 battleships, 3 frigates, 2 bombarding ships and 9 galleys) is not ...
                Quote: VlR
                According to the Belgrade Peace, Russia could not lose access to the Black Sea, because after the Prut Peace it did not have it (and to the Azov Peace either).

                belay Nonsense: She HAD access to the Black (Ochakov 1737) 1 and, all the more, to the Sea of ​​Azov (Azov, Belgrade world)
                Quote: VlR
                And for some reason you have a direct Pikulev attitude towards Minich. And this is a very extraordinary and talented person who did a lot in Russia "for the first time."

                I agree about his originality and giftedness.

                But his trip to the Crimea is terrible, and it was not any "victory" (like yours).
                Quote: VlR
                Apparently, you need to write about him. Yes, the next article, sorry, will be about Minich. Well, we'll hook Lassi a little, if possible.

                Let's read it with satisfaction.
                1. VLR
                  13 September 2020 13: 48 New
                  +2
                  In 1737, as a result of the victories of Minich and Lassi, Russian troops reached the shores of the Azov and Black Seas. But officially they remained the territory of the Ottoman Empire. Later, Russia retained the Azov coast, and had to abandon the Black Sea coast. No wonder: Russia has always received much less than what it won as a result of its wars with Turkey - European "partners" forced it at peace conferences.
              2. Astra wild
                Astra wild 13 September 2020 21: 24 New
                +1
                I will wait for your story.
            2. 3x3zsave
              3x3zsave 13 September 2020 13: 04 New
              +5
              in the place of Petersburg, the Swedes would still have ruled.
              Andrew! hi
              I am terribly sorry, but St. Petersburg was founded when victory in the Northern War was not only a fait accompli, but even absolutely not promising.
              I follow with interest your "battle" with Valery.
              1. Olgovich
                Olgovich 13 September 2020 13: 26 New
                +4
                Quote: 3x3zsave
                in the place of Petersburg, the Swedes would still have ruled.
                Andrew!
                I am terribly sorry, but St. Petersburg was founded when victory in the Northern War was not only a fait accompli, but even absolutely not promising.

                hi
                It was founded on the lands taken from the Shyids as part of the hostilities of this Northern War.
                Quote: 3x3zsave
                I follow with interest your "battle" with Valery.

                Yes, not a battle, but somewhat different assessments: somehow the "half-witted" mindlessly rushing about, "the king
                1. 3x3zsave
                  3x3zsave 13 September 2020 13: 33 New
                  +4
                  But Peter was indeed an extremely eccentric person.
      2. Trilobite Master
        Trilobite Master 13 September 2020 12: 35 New
        +5
        Quote: VlR
        And why did Peter I lose half of the army during the Prut campaign?

        For experience.
        In fact, this was the first attempt by the Russians to invade the steppe so deeply in almost half a millennium. It would be strange to expect complete success from her.
        1. VLR
          13 September 2020 12: 57 New
          +6
          A very high price for the experience. The most important thing is that many of Peter I's subordinates understood that the Russian army was going straight to the rake of Charles XII - but not the Tsar. Only in the Prut camp did he begin to tell everyone that "he found himself in the same position as my brother Karl near Poltava." That is, he admitted his mistake.
          Peter had many victories, I told about them in the cycle about the Northern War. These articles were very well received and received many complimentary reviews. I hope that some memories of him remain and something is deposited in my memory. But one must not forget about the frank failures of great people. Firstly, this is still our history, whatever it may be, and you need to know it. Second, knowing history can help you avoid mistakes of the past. For example, in one of the comments to the last article, the tragic attack on Kharkov in 1942 was compared with the thoughtless one to the Prut: they say, as in the case of Alart's warning to Peter, in 1942 the commanders warned the Headquarters about the need to stop and even retreat, but it was ordered continue the offensive and climb into the cauldron.
          1. Trilobite Master
            Trilobite Master 13 September 2020 13: 16 New
            +6
            I agree with everything said. I will add only from myself that, in my opinion, if there were no Prut campaign, the subsequent ones would have to start "from scratch" and, most likely, make the same mistakes that led to the failure of Peter's campaign.
        2. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 13 September 2020 13: 08 New
          +5
          In fact, this was the first attempt by the Russians to invade the steppe so deeply in almost half a millennium.
          Hmmm .... But what about the Azov campaigns?
          1. Trilobite Master
            Trilobite Master 13 September 2020 14: 06 New
            +4
            The Azov, and before them the Crimean campaigns of the Russians, nevertheless, it seems to me, were not so deep and were carried out mainly along the rivers, without going deep into the steppe. On the rivers (Don, Dnieper), supplies were carried out directly from central Russia.
            The Prut campaign was originally conceived as an event carried out in isolation from existing communications, which could connect the army with the rear with the expectation of replenishing supplies on the spot, that is, according to Peter's plan, the army was supposed to operate autonomously at the expense of local resources and very far from their own bases.
            And if you remember that some of the units in this campaign reached as much as the Danube ... Roughly speaking, the last time before that a Russian warrior stood on the Danube, probably during the time of Svyatoslav Igorevich ...
            1. Engineer
              Engineer 13 September 2020 15: 28 New
              +3
              The Azov, and before them the Crimean campaigns of the Russians, nevertheless, it seems to me, were not so deep and were carried out mainly along the rivers, without going deep into the steppe

              It took only 6 days from the Dniester to the Prut. Further along the same Prut
              Gordon in 1695 moved his detachment along the steppe and not along the rivers
              In my opinion, there is no reason to justify Peter's outstanding fail
              1. Liam
                Liam 13 September 2020 15: 36 New
                +1
                Quote: Engineer
                only 6 days

                From Soroka to Yash-120 km
                1. Engineer
                  Engineer 13 September 2020 15: 40 New
                  +3
                  June 27 crossing of the Dniester
                  July 3 avngard went to Yassy
                  1. The comment was deleted.
                  2. Liam
                    Liam 13 September 2020 15: 54 New
                    +1
                    Quote: Engineer
                    June 27 crossing of the Dniester
                    July 3 avngard went to Yassy

                    This is alarming.
                    In the 6-day march from the Dniester to the Prut with sweltering heat during the day and cold nights, many Russian recruits, weakened by the lack of food, died of thirst and disease. The soldiers died, unable to withstand hardships, committed suicide

                    Between Soroca and Yash, not some kind of desert or dry steppe. This is the central part of modern Moldova, the most fertile land, already quite populated, a bunch of rivers. How they managed to die by tens of thousands of hunger and thirst in 5 days is not particularly clear. About cold Moldovan nights in July are generally unscientific fiction
                    1. VLR
                      13 September 2020 16: 01 New
                      +2
                      Drought and locust. And, probably, dysentery with dehydration and other infectious diseases. Peter himself did not deny the mass death of soldiers and recalled that people turned black before death.
                      1. Liam
                        Liam 13 September 2020 16: 06 New
                        +1
                        But in 6 days? 120 km in 6 days is 20 km a day. That is, 3 hours of travel is not a quick step. No exhausting marches, that is. So that a person would die in 5-6 days from hunger, he should not eat anything from the first day. , started the hike without having a gram of bread or a liter of water with you? There are no such droughts in Moldova that all the rivers would dry up
                      2. VLR
                        13 September 2020 16: 17 New
                        +2
                        Moro de Brasé argued that the provisions were taken only for 8 days of the journey. And also 2500 thousand carriages with family members of generals and officers. And they also took food for them, but not rusks, but what is more refined. And nobody writes anything about mortality among officers' wives. Apparently they weren't starving.
                      3. Liam
                        Liam 13 September 2020 16: 31 New
                        +1
                        And they could not die of thirst so quickly either. From Russia to the Soroks they also went not through the Wild Field, but through the populated territories of Ukraine. And they also did not starve.
                        The reasons for this mortality still cannot be "ambient". There is either some kind of massive infectious disease or something else
                      4. Engineer
                        Engineer 13 September 2020 16: 34 New
                        +2
                        Widespread desertion is still not very far from its border as an option
                        The disease would hardly have mowed down so selectively, mainly in the first phase. Rather the opposite., In a cramped camp, it would have raged especially strongly
                      5. Liam
                        Liam 13 September 2020 16: 36 New
                        +2
                        Most likely you are right. Mass losses ended with access to Yasha. The epidemic could not be so selective. Mass desertion is the most reasonable reason.
                2. Krasnodar
                  Krasnodar 13 September 2020 18: 18 New
                  +3
                  Quote: Liam
                  But in 6 days? 120 km in 6 days is 20 km a day. That is, 3 hours of travel is not a quick step. No exhausting marches, that is. So that a person would die in 5-6 days from hunger, he should not eat anything from the first day. , started the hike without having a gram of bread or a liter of water with you? There are no such droughts in Moldova that all the rivers would dry up

                  From disease, most likely.
                3. Liam
                  Liam 13 September 2020 18: 23 New
                  0
                  Which began and ended suddenly in 5 days as soon as they reached Yash? To kill 5-20 people in 30.000 days and then immediately disappear - what kind of disease should it be?
                4. Krasnodar
                  Krasnodar 13 September 2020 19: 00 New
                  +1
                  Desertion is common.
        3. Engineer
          Engineer 13 September 2020 16: 05 New
          +2
          As I understand it, the mass mortality began later, immediately with the beginning of hostilities. Apparently the mechanism worked as in the wars of the Romans with the Parthians and Persians. Lagging behind, exhausted, wounded, sick simply rushed to their fate.
          1. VLR
            13 September 2020 16: 11 New
            +4
            No, at the inspection near the Prut River, according to official data, 19 thousand people were missing. Another 2872 people lost directly in battles, and more than 4 thousand on the way back
          2. Engineer
            Engineer 13 September 2020 16: 20 New
            +5
            Checked again
            On the eve of the campaign, almost 80 thousand on the list (in reality, roughly 70 thousand)
            Review on July 17 just before the battles of 47 thousand. This number should not include the Rennes squad - 5 thousand. Have you forgotten anything?
            After the campaign in Podolia, they counted 37 without the Rennes detachment
            Indeed, the worst happened BEFORE the hostilities. That is, GENERAL BEFORE.
            That Peter and Karl are real butchers of their countries
        4. Liam
          Liam 13 September 2020 16: 24 New
          0
          After reaching Yash, the Russian army was all the time on the banks of the Prut. So at least there were no problems with water. The river at that time was full-flowing, since they talk about the crossings and the impossibility to get out of the trap due to the fact that they were pressed to the river. So there were droughts. The Prut River is small in itself. In case of severe drought, it would quickly become shallow. From Yash to Braila -250 km and 10.000, Renne's corps got there without any problems and took the city and then returned back. That is, I did not experience any special problems with supply ...
  • Trilobite Master
    Trilobite Master 13 September 2020 15: 58 New
    +3
    Quote: Engineer
    In my opinion, there is no reason to justify Peter's outstanding fail

    Nobody tries what it was.
    The experience was expensive, but when was it cheap? That which is given dearly is dear and valued. And following on, Peter's experience certainly came in handy, didn't it?
    1. Engineer
      Engineer 13 September 2020 16: 10 New
      +3
      Probably not. No one canceled the rake for humanity. The non-combat losses of our army in the future in the Crimea and on the Danube were huge for almost a hundred years.
      1. Trilobite Master
        Trilobite Master 13 September 2020 16: 46 New
        +3
        Quote: Engineer
        Non-lethal losses

        This was typical not only of the Russian army. A common headache for all armies of that time, even in Europe, what can we say about the unusual conditions of the Black Sea steppes ...
        But in terms of strategic planning and logistics, certain conclusions were drawn. As well as in terms of tactical training for wars with the Turkish army.
  • cost
    cost 13 September 2020 13: 28 New
    +5
    As a madman ran up and down the camp, beat his chest

    By analogy, Khasbulat immediately came to mind
    The Khiva campaign of Alexander Bekovich began in May 1717. When he reached Guryev, he received the sad news that the barge on which his wife and children were returning to Astrakhan after seeing off the Russian flotilla had been wrecked. Marfa Borisovna and both daughters drowned, and the waves threw the son ashore and was rescued by fishermen.
    To say that Bekovich was shocked by the death of his family is to say nothing. After hearing the terrible news, Bekovich silently turned around, entered the house, closed the door, and did not leave there for several days, refusing food and water. After this frightening retreat with Khasbulat, something went wrong - the few surviving witnesses claimed that after this shock he slightly moved his mind and periodically behaved at least strangely, ran around the camp, talking to himself, constantly praying. The prince-chieftain came to his senses only by the end of June. Having led the detachment to the road to Khiva, he seemed to have lost his mind. Now he began to drive the detachment virtually without stopping, torturing people and animals. In just a month and a half, the army overcame the Ustyurt plateau ... The main question, of course, is why Bekovich, smart, cunning, experienced and careful commander, behaved so stupidly. Why did he ruin not only his wild head, but all his people for a penny. Historians have been arguing about this for more than a century, and put forward a variety of assumptions - and a shock clouding of the mind - as an option, one of the main
    .
    1. cost
      cost 13 September 2020 13: 52 New
      +7
      Shirgazi set up a gallows at the Adar Gate, on which the headless stuffed animals of Bekovich, Economov and Salmanov dangled - they removed the skin from the unfortunate and filled it with dry grass. Russian prisoners had already been driven to the main square for public execution, but the "Uruses" were saved by the head of the Khiva Muslims - aikhun. He was not afraid to declare to the khan reveling in victory that the Russians were taken prisoner not in an honest battle, but by deception and, much worse, by perjury, because peace was concluded on the Koran. “Let us not increase our sins with new and useless executions,” suggested Shirgazi aikhun. The khan did not dare to go against the clergyman, all the surviving prisoners were saved.
      Some time later, Khiva was captured by the army of the Persian Khan Nadir. The city was devastated by fire. And to the Russian captives - the Cossacks and grenadiers from Bekoyvich's detachment, Nadir ordered to hand over weapons, horses, provisions and gold, and sent them home. Of the 2473 people who left with Bekovich to build a new outpost of Russia, only a little over 300 returned to Astrakhan.
      Sabelka
      old Tersk song

      "With Khasbulat to Khiva
      My daddy used to go
      And returned to home
      Only his saber
      The godfather spoke
      Hiding tears in my beard
      That my father died
      In a cursed city
      Oh you sabel - hand
      Chiseled for yourself
      Grebensky Cossack
      The village of Scarlet.
      1. cost
        cost 13 September 2020 13: 55 New
        +8
        The only memory of these two thousand Russian graves on the Caspian coast is the obelisk erected to the first victims of the Turkestan game by their original “replacements” by the fighters of the famous Krasnovodsk detachment. It was they who, who took revenge for Bekovich's detachments, the "white shirts" of the Governor-General of the Turkestan Territory Kaufman and Major General Golovachev, who erected a modest monument near the current Turkmen village of Kyzal-Su in 1871, writing on it: "Krasnovodsk detachment - to associates of Peter I ".
        And this is the only monument to the people of Khasbulat throughout the territory of the former Soviet Union. And this is how, to our shame, it looks now
  • Astra wild
    Astra wild 13 September 2020 20: 53 New
    +2
    "Lomonosov wrote an ode to the capture of Khotin" Valery, a question from harm: if Lomonosov had lived under Peter 1, he would not have written an ode to the capture of Azov? With all due respect to M.V., let's not forget that he was ts "Official poet" (the authorities saw in him more of a poet than a scientist), and this obliges
    1. VLR
      13 September 2020 22: 12 New
      +2
      The fact of the matter is that Lomonosov then was neither an official poet nor an academician! And he was a student and studied in Germany. I learned about the victory of Minich from the newspapers, and was so inspired that he wrote an ode that became one of the milestones in the development of poetry in Russia.
  • 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 13 September 2020 10: 10 New
    +5
    For the rest, Baltaci Mehmet Pasha showed a certain nobility.
    I wonder what is the reason for this nobility?
    Thank you, Valery!
    1. VLR
      13 September 2020 10: 23 New
      +5
      And you know, oddly enough, the Turks did not have much hostility towards the Russians at that time. Memoirists write that immediately after the ceasefire was declared, Turkish soldiers began to drive up to the Russian positions, selling or exchanging food, sometimes just giving it away. And in general they showed respect. But the Crimean Tatars, on the contrary, were very unhappy that they were not allowed to rob the Russian camp, and the Turks even sent their representatives with the Russian army to prevent incidents with the Tatars along the way. This is the reason for the quarrel between the khan and the vizier.
      1. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 13 September 2020 10: 30 New
        +5
        Hmmm ... Interesting, but that explains a lot. Indeed, in fact, the strategic initiative was in the hands of Mehmet Pasha, as well as the variety of choice of strategy.
  • Korsar4
    Korsar4 13 September 2020 10: 21 New
    +5
    Peter's severe headaches, which Catherine could relieve, can explain a lot in a relationship.

    And the personal sets the state in motion.
    1. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave 13 September 2020 10: 52 New
      +4
      Uh-huh.
      "The trembling of my left calf is a great sign" (C)
      1. Korsar4
        Korsar4 13 September 2020 11: 07 New
        +5
        Not. Bonaparte has emotions. And here is a combination of pain and relief when letting go.
        1. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 13 September 2020 11: 14 New
          +4
          This reminds me of a historical tale about the failed romance of Richelieu and Anna of Austria.
          1. Korsar4
            Korsar4 13 September 2020 11: 25 New
            +5
            Richelieu's scale is larger than that of Catherine I. If, of course, such a comparison is generally permissible.
            1. 3x3zsave
              3x3zsave 13 September 2020 11: 30 New
              +4
              And in my thoughts there was no comparison. Rather, Peter and Richelieu.
              1. Korsar4
                Korsar4 13 September 2020 11: 47 New
                +4
                Anna of Austria and Catherine are also not quite equal. This is probably to the question of social lifts, and transitions to another level.
                1. 3x3zsave
                  3x3zsave 13 September 2020 11: 59 New
                  +6
                  Rather, to the question of the role of personality in history. I suddenly had a conspiracy doubt: did Peter suffer from headaches before he met Martha Skavronskaya? wassat
                  1. Korsar4
                    Korsar4 13 September 2020 13: 08 New
                    +5
                    Interviewing witnesses is already problematic.
                    1. 3x3zsave
                      3x3zsave 13 September 2020 13: 19 New
                      +5
                      This, of course, is yes. But, the pace of change of high-ranking lovers, suggests the extraordinary psychic abilities of Martha's Fraulein.
                      1. Korsar4
                        Korsar4 13 September 2020 13: 22 New
                        +4
                        “The whole street fell in love with me
                        And the whole Savelovsky railway station "(c).
                      2. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 13 September 2020 13: 26 New
                        +4
                        "And I'm circling recklessly,
                        With the windiest of women
                        I've been looking for this for a long time,
                        And no more and no less "(C)
                      3. Catfish
                        Catfish 13 September 2020 14: 14 New
                        +4
                        "Only now, my mother scolds that I am not there at night ..." (C)
                        What are you hinting at, sir, because Indian summer is just around the corner. drinks
                      4. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 13 September 2020 14: 32 New
                        +5
                        Well, I don’t know ... We have the fourth day of "storm". The Marquis's puddle is furious as at the end of October. However: what kind of women - such is summer.
                      5. Korsar4
                        Korsar4 13 September 2020 14: 46 New
                        +4
                        “And our northern summer -
                        Caricature of southern winters "(c).
                      6. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 13 September 2020 14: 51 New
                        +4
                        "And we have a bummer, eternal winter.
                        Snow and snow all around, gray houses.
                        Ah, Fidel, Fidel, I'm losing my mind.
                        I close my eyes and instantly
                        everyone around is such a torment
                        everyone around is so amigo
                        but I open my eyes and cry. "(C)
                      7. Korsar4
                        Korsar4 13 September 2020 14: 57 New
                        +4
                        “In these sad lands everything is designed for winter: dreams,
                        Prison walls, coats ”(c).
                      8. Catfish
                        Catfish 13 September 2020 15: 01 New
                        +4
                        "I remember that Vanino port, and the look of the steamer is gloomy,
                        As we walked aboard the gangway into the cold, gloomy holds ... "(C) sad
                      9. Korsar4
                        Korsar4 13 September 2020 15: 12 New
                        +4
                        "Go on the run, go crazy
                        Now it's too late for me "(c).
                      10. Catfish
                        Catfish 13 September 2020 15: 18 New
                        +4
                        "We have been preparing an escape for three years,
                        We saved three tons of grubs,
                        And he even gave us a ladle with him
                        One terribly nice criminal. "(C)
                    2. 3x3zsave
                      3x3zsave 13 September 2020 16: 12 New
                      +4
                      "We walked along Amderma like gods,
                      waddling slightly, hands on hips,
                      and our beards and bucks
                      carried directionally through the port;
                      and us girls and rookies,
                      as well as local dogs
                      accompanied as an escort. "(C)
                  2. 3x3zsave
                    3x3zsave 13 September 2020 15: 01 New
                    +4
                    "Street, lantern, pharmacy" (C)
                  3. Korsar4
                    Korsar4 13 September 2020 15: 15 New
                    +3
                    “What have you done, autumn?
                    Affectionately yes in a whisper "(c).
                  4. 3x3zsave
                    3x3zsave 13 September 2020 16: 03 New
                    +4
                    "On a carpet of yellow leaves, in a simple dress,
                    From crepe de Chine given by the wind
                    Danced in the gateway autumn waltz-boston "(C)
                  5. Korsar4
                    Korsar4 13 September 2020 16: 41 New
                    +3
                    “Is it autumn if it is dropped
                    The first yellow leaf? " (from).
                  6. 3x3zsave
                    3x3zsave 13 September 2020 16: 50 New
                    +3
                    "The first autumn leaf floats on the water,
                    On the way he will meet the first thin ice "(C)
                  7. Catfish
                    Catfish 13 September 2020 17: 23 New
                    +3
                    "The yellow leaves are circling over the city." (FROM)
                  8. Lexus
                    Lexus 14 September 2020 02: 43 New
                    +9
                    Set aside autumn moods!
                    "Lawns" to mow and paint! Change "yellowed" leaves to "fresh" ones.soldierlol

      2. Catfish
        Catfish 13 September 2020 14: 58 New
        +3
        ... everything around is so tormenting,
        everyone around is so amigo
        but I open my eyes and cry. "(C)

        Yes, there are such tormenting people around, and then ... a Tank comes around the corner. Even though today is Tankman's Day. soldier laughing drinks
      3. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 13 September 2020 15: 03 New
        +5
        "They were smashed, the song is the guarantee,
        Unbreakable by its codlo
        Three dentists, three funny friends,
        Solomon, Abram and Moses "(C)
      4. Catfish
        Catfish 13 September 2020 15: 15 New
        +3
        Three tankers drank three hundred,
        And the fourth drank eight hundred! "(C)
      5. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 13 September 2020 16: 05 New
        +2
        So three drank "bimber", and the fourth - "kinzmarauli" laughing
      6. Lexus
        Lexus 13 September 2020 16: 41 New
        10
        The next morning there is only "minascali" left ...lol
      7. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 13 September 2020 16: 52 New
        +3
        Alexey! hi
        I know this anecdote
      8. Lexus
        Lexus 13 September 2020 16: 57 New
        13
        Anton! hi
        Your "gang" wink it is very difficult to surprise erudites with something "new". request
      9. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 13 September 2020 17: 01 New
        +2
        "Then the pan moves knockingly." laughing
      10. Lexus
        Lexus 13 September 2020 17: 23 New
        +9
        "And nema of that locomotive."lol
      11. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 13 September 2020 17: 27 New
        +2
        Chet, Alexei, you were completely drawn to the "prison lyrics" ...
      12. Lexus
        Lexus 13 September 2020 17: 39 New
        +9
        Mainly cloudy...
      13. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 13 September 2020 17: 48 New
        +2
        Pancake! It's cloudy in Ryazan! It's sunny in St. Petersburg, but the wind is such that the trees are blowing! Fun !!!
      14. Lexus
        Lexus 13 September 2020 17: 53 New
        10
        We had a hurricane in early July - it really piled trees. Especially in the area of ​​the Paustovsky Trail, as if the forest had been repeatedly covered by carpet bombing.
      15. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 13 September 2020 18: 11 New
        +2
        Lech! Come to St. Petersburg! I will show you what a wind of 18 m / s is when the car is driving on the road!
      16. Lexus
        Lexus 13 September 2020 18: 20 New
        10
        Why not? It is quite possible to exchange friendly visits.
      17. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 13 September 2020 18: 36 New
        +2
        Come! Back? Well, fig knows ... I can't get to my mother for four years now ...
      18. Lexus
        Lexus 13 September 2020 20: 09 New
        +9
        I will take with me an experienced instructor who served in the Tank Forces of the USSR. wink
      19. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 13 September 2020 20: 10 New
        +1
        Uncle Kostya?
      20. Lexus
        Lexus 13 September 2020 21: 53 New
        +8
        Shh ... "Never before has Stirlitz been so close to failure." (FROM) winked
  • Phil77
    Phil77 13 September 2020 16: 55 New
    +4
    Quote: 3x3zsave
    "kinzmarauli"

    Here, here, * kinzmarauli *! Cry of the soul! Today the derby will take place, the sign is:
    CSKA-Spartak. And what? And the main sports TV channel, the so-called * Match *, does not show this action! For?
    Right! Look at paid, on * Premier Match *. This lewdness is led by a certain Kandelaki Tina.
    I remember how not so long ago, they wanted to * stir up * something like that on NTV, but they did good things! pliz, but .... recourse
  • 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 13 September 2020 17: 05 New
    +4
    Seryozha! Well, you don’t play bookmaking? Then figs fussing around? Then you will look at the record.
  • Phil77
    Phil77 13 September 2020 17: 10 New
    +3
    Oh, Anton! Well, who is watching this action in the recording ???? Especially at one in the morning? And emotions? And to work tomorrow? And the result is already known / how to restrain and not find out?!?! /? No, not that ! negative
  • 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 13 September 2020 17: 12 New
    +3
    "And you are passionate, Paramosha!" (C) laughing
  • Phil77
    Phil77 13 September 2020 17: 14 New
    +3
    * this is what is killing you. * wink
  • 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 13 September 2020 17: 19 New
    +3
    Hmmm ... If this is a quote, where is it from?
  • Phil77
    Phil77 13 September 2020 17: 24 New
    +3
    Quote: 3x3zsave
    "And you are passionate, Paramosha!"

    And the continuation of the phrase:
    Quote: Phil77
    * this is what is killing you. *

    laughing Michal Afanasevich-s.
  • 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 13 September 2020 17: 31 New
    +3
    Ahh ... Uh ... Sorry, I'm just on a different wavelength today. Thought it was a quote from Billy Novick.
  • Phil77
    Phil77 13 September 2020 17: 35 New
    +2
    Quote: 3x3zsave
    Thought quote

    Norma The author himself has this phrase sounds like this:
    -And you are gambling, Paramon. That's where your weak string is!
    hi
  • Phil77
    Phil77 13 September 2020 16: 29 New
    +5
    Quote: Sea Cat
    Three tankers drank three hundred,
    And the fourth drank eight hundred! "(C)

    * Powrocimy wierni
    My czterej pancerni
    * Rudy * i nasz pies.
    My czterei pancernej
    Powrocimy wierni
    Po wiosenny bez. * wink soldier
    A cult serial film.
  • 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 13 September 2020 16: 31 New
    +3
    Here I am about the same! laughing
  • Catfish
    Catfish 13 September 2020 17: 36 New
    +4
    "Three Poles, a Georgian and a dog." - So the film was called among themselves. And the most striking character of him.
  • Phil77
    Phil77 13 September 2020 17: 39 New
    +2
    Quote: Sea Cat
    "Three Poles, a Georgian and a dog." - So the film was called among themselves. And the most striking character of him.

    Precisely, the most colorful, the most humorous, the biggest! The stove also starred in * Liberation *! I saw his current photo yesterday, of course, old, alas!
  • Astra wild
    Astra wild 13 September 2020 21: 09 New
    +3
    And who did František Pechka play in Liberation? I really loved this movie
  • Phil77
    Phil77 14 September 2020 05: 44 New
    +2
    Quote: Astra wild
    I really loved this movie

    The last film of the epic.

    Sims Pechka and Valery Nosik discover a tank of alcohol, and for the brotherhood of the armed forces.
    A comic episode in a heroic film.
    All CSKA fans with a victory in the derby !!! 3-1 !!!!! good
  • 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 13 September 2020 17: 41 New
    +4
    The brightest characters in this film are the tank and the dog!
    And yes! Happy holiday, Uncle Kostya!
  • Catfish
    Catfish 13 September 2020 17: 44 New
    +3
    No, well, a tank for you, of course - yes! More tropical islands, native young ladies and "mahito". wink drinks
  • 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 13 September 2020 18: 02 New
    +4
    1. Tank, for me, no doubt - terra incognito.
    2. Tropical Islands? Never been, alas
    3. Native young ladies ... Hmmm ... They are, of course, interesting ... But in this case, even "product number two" does not guarantee full protection
    4. But the mojito will be superfluous
  • Catfish
    Catfish 13 September 2020 18: 19 New
    +2
    Native young ladies ... Hmmm ... They are, of course, interesting ... But in this case, even "product number two" does not guarantee full protection

    But if it is used simultaneously with product number 1, then the security guarantee will be much higher. laughing
  • 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 13 September 2020 18: 30 New
    +2
    Fallouts rule! laughing
  • Catfish
    Catfish 13 September 2020 19: 01 New
    +3
    "Seriousness before the West". We have our own and better. good
  • 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 13 September 2020 19: 15 New
    +2
    Yes, damn it, groveling!
  • Catfish
    Catfish 13 September 2020 19: 30 New
    +2
    It's a long time to look for a second such devil, better for a devil, for a couple. smile
  • 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 13 September 2020 19: 33 New
    +2
    No no no! I like "poo-pi-pityu"!
  • Catfish
    Catfish 13 September 2020 19: 38 New
    +2
    Is it like in Russian - "drinking" or "priest bye"? Or together?
  • Lexus
    Lexus 14 September 2020 00: 49 New
    +9
    I translate - first "magic elixir" to establish contact with the "world on the other side of the end", and then no difference. The main thing is that the "tail" of the punished "fiends" is exclusively behind. It is possible, by the way, to work successfully on the "party" lists. repeat

  • Lexus
    Lexus 14 September 2020 00: 20 New
    +8
    The soul of devils is not interested. Purse! Some are just ACCOUNTING. And this is gratifying. drinks

  • Lexus
    Lexus 13 September 2020 23: 41 New
    12
    Kostya, where does the hose of "Product No. 1" of this character lead to? winked
  • Catfish
    Catfish 13 September 2020 23: 45 New
    +3
    The hose leads to Product # 2, which is used as storage. It is impossible in the Zone - you will provoke Anomaly. This name is. laughing
  • Lexus
    Lexus 13 September 2020 23: 50 New
    10
    Yes, the "exit" as the "entrance" is really an Anomaly. In the understanding of conservatives. laughing
  • Catfish
    Catfish 14 September 2020 00: 00 New
    +3
    For some reason, the verb blew out there, strange, for many this is a natural state of drinking. drinks
  • Lexus
    Lexus 14 September 2020 00: 13 New
    +9
    this is a natural state with binge

    For others, this is a natural event from the "news" claiming the greatness of the "unfinished".
  • Catfish
    Catfish 14 September 2020 00: 38 New
    +3
    Lyosha, fig politics, and it's good without her.
  • Lexus
    Lexus 14 September 2020 00: 58 New
    +7
    Kostya, some "prostitutes" are, one way or another, "political". To deprive them of attention-taking out? They will take offense and introduce a "moratorium" on "first-degree contacts." repeat
  • Catfish
    Catfish 14 September 2020 00: 42 New
    +3
    Don't tell me, they, like all of us, are very different. ))
  • Lexus
    Lexus 14 September 2020 01: 46 New
    +9
    The science of taking "fortresses" is universal and unshakable. wink
    First you need to take the "top", then take possession of the "bastions". Next, make a "tunnel" and penetrate into the "dungeon". Some will not give a "passage" themselves, but "water wears away the stone." There are nuances. As one friend of mine says: "If the roof is rusty, the basement is always damp." Do not buy a "pick", do not drink from a "source". Also, the "ruins", previously repeatedly "broken" by the enemy, and with the "prisoners" do not take. Do not give in to "devilish" persuasion in any case. repeat

  • Undecim
    Undecim 13 September 2020 21: 49 New
    +5
    There is nothing complicated in the tank, an extremely rational mechanism.
    Tropical islands can be viewed from the beach of some Nuku Hiva, or from the nickel mine in Sulawesi. A completely different impression.
    As for the native young ladies ...
    On Nuku-Khiva and other Khiva-Oa, they are all practical like this or better.
  • Undecim
    Undecim 13 September 2020 21: 57 New
    +5
    But when you move around the jungle type, you come across completely different all the time.
  • Catfish
    Catfish 13 September 2020 23: 57 New
    +4
    Well, I can still do something else in Photoshop. But it is better, of course, to represent the "blue dream" of childhood on the top photo. Or this.
  • Lexus
    Lexus 13 September 2020 16: 30 New
    +9
    Happy Holidays, Uncle Kostya! soldier drinks

    Be healthy, dear! So that there are no holes in the "tank corps" sharpened for underwater driving! The Buryat assault regiment of special-purpose horse divers-paratroopers sends you its ardent greetings! fellowbully

    We respect and appreciate you immensely for your uniqueness! wink laughing


    Fragment from the movie "It can't be!" (1975)
  • Catfish
    Catfish 13 September 2020 17: 26 New
    +2
    Lesch, thanks, of course. smile But what kind of hints about other people's wives?
  • Lexus
    Lexus 13 September 2020 17: 32 New
    11
    A bright, unique personality I say! What are the hints? What women? request
  • 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 13 September 2020 18: 42 New
    +1
    That's talent! And here he got out! laughing
  • Lexus
    Lexus 13 September 2020 20: 20 New
    +8
    Not everything you and the "notorious captain" after "foreign policy operations", shall we say, in the Topkapi Palace, have a nightmare. My examiner will be more serious. winkedlol
  • 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 13 September 2020 20: 56 New
    +2
    Lech! You can write anything about me, but don't touch the image of "Captain Mikhailov"! This is sacred!
  • Lexus
    Lexus 14 September 2020 02: 23 New
    +6
    Believe it or not, I just mentioned it with aspiration. Holy, holy, holy
  • Catfish
    Catfish 13 September 2020 14: 11 New
    +4
    Or about "uterine rabies". laughing
  • Lexus
    Lexus 13 September 2020 16: 46 New
    +9
    Of course, they did not have time to interrogate the "experts" - they ended up too quickly.repeat
  • Krasnodar
    Krasnodar 13 September 2020 18: 24 New
    +5
    Quote: Korsar4
    Anna of Austria and Catherine are also not quite equal. This is probably to the question of social lifts, and transitions to another level.

    Alisa Freindlich and Maria Alexandrova are also so-so comparison
    1. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave 13 September 2020 18: 44 New
      +3
      Hmmm ... Explain?
      1. Krasnodar
        Krasnodar 13 September 2020 19: 01 New
        +5
        One is better as an actress, but I would not roll up to her)).
        1. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 13 September 2020 19: 10 New
          +4
          To Frendlich?
        2. Krasnodar
          Krasnodar 13 September 2020 20: 15 New
          +5
          Well, it's obvious))
        3. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 13 September 2020 20: 43 New
          +4
          In vain. As those who were honored to kiss the pen say: "It is very easy to communicate." I readily believe, for I saw her father on stage and behind the scenes.
        4. Krasnodar
          Krasnodar 13 September 2020 22: 37 New
          +3
          Simple - not simple, outwardly I like Alexandrova more
  • Korsar4
    Korsar4 13 September 2020 20: 53 New
    +3
    "And Briand, would you put your finger in Briand's mouth?" (from).
  • Astra wild
    Astra wild 13 September 2020 21: 04 New
    +3
    They say that Peter at the grave of Richelieu said: "Great man, I would give you half of my kingdom, so that you teach how to govern the rest."
    1. VLR
      13 September 2020 21: 49 New
      +5
      And he was told: "Richelieu would immediately take the other half from you."
  • VIP
    VIP 13 September 2020 16: 36 New
    +7
    Valery, my compliments. You have selected the material and the illustrations are all at the level, and next to them is Kharluzhny: a set of phrases and actually outright hack
    1. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave 13 September 2020 16: 58 New
      +6
      My compliments, colleague! For 4 years now I have been observing how the resource, in terms of the authors, plunges into a cesspool. And this is with my not very bright intellect.
      1. Astra wild
        Astra wild 13 September 2020 19: 48 New
        +4
        My poet, are you flirting or seriously consider yourself not very smart? Others have a different opinion on this matter.
        1. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 13 September 2020 20: 01 New
          +4
          My Fair Stranger, with whom can I flirt here? With Ryzhov, Shpakovsky, Vaschenko, Popov, Bocharov, Zhalobin, Sokolov, Mikhailov ..., ad infinitum ... They all know me as "flaky" and perceive me the same way.
          1. Astra wild
            Astra wild 13 September 2020 21: 15 New
            +3
            I will ask Vyacheslav Olegovich and Valery: do you really think that Anton is not very smart?
            1. 3x3zsave
              3x3zsave 13 September 2020 21: 21 New
              +5
              Oh, for God's sake! What they will answer you will not correspond to the truth, because they are biased. It's easier to turn to my ex-women ...
              1. Lexus
                Lexus 14 September 2020 02: 09 New
                +9
                However, confidence! Or is it promotion? In any case, there is a lot to learn. I can't boast of such self-control. Everyone has been. "Black, white, red." (C) Even "Robin Boobs" came across. These are the ones who are "taken" from the rich and "given" to the poor. So, "for the soul" (it still feels "from"), they say ...
              2. Astra wild
                Astra wild 14 September 2020 15: 04 New
                +2
                Will you give me the coordinates? And then the city of Peter is large: almost 5 million + 1,5-2 million temporary residents
                1. 3x3zsave
                  3x3zsave 14 September 2020 15: 11 New
                  +2
                  Only with their permission.
                  1. Korsar4
                    Korsar4 14 September 2020 20: 02 New
                    +3
                    "Name, sister, name!" (from).
                    1. 3x3zsave
                      3x3zsave 14 September 2020 20: 08 New
                      +2
                      Larisa, Marina, Svetlana, Irina ...
                      There is only Hope ...
                      1. Korsar4
                        Korsar4 14 September 2020 20: 22 New
                        +3
                        Bryusov had a wreath of sonnets of 14 names.

                        There is still an opportunity to find Hope and everything that goes with it.
                      2. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 14 September 2020 20: 28 New
                        +2
                        I lied, there is hope, but we have too complex family ties, and not blood. I really appreciate our communication, I consider her a sister, I hope mutually.
                    2. Phil77
                      Phil77 15 September 2020 18: 34 New
                      +2
                      Hello Anton! Oh, how strange it is that no one remembered the immortal from Schwartz! wink
                      * Yvette, Lisette,
                      Musette, Jeanette, Georgette ..... * laughing laughing laughing
                      * Straw hat *.
                    3. 3x3zsave
                      3x3zsave 15 September 2020 19: 29 New
                      +2
                      "Masha, Zina, Dasha, Nina?
                      It’s like it’s not her.
                      Katya, Katya are carved
                      I have horseshoes. "(C)
                    4. Phil77
                      Phil77 15 September 2020 20: 46 New
                      +3
                      * My whole life you like the sun
                      July warmed.
                      As long as I'm with you, I swear my song is not sung
                      Yvette, Lisette, Musetta,
                      Jeanette, Georgette.
                      Colette, Paulette, Claretta,
                      Floretta Oh! Marietta! * good
                    5. 3x3zsave
                      3x3zsave 15 September 2020 20: 53 New
                      +3
                      "And we will call our daughter Vasya! A wonderful name for a girl - Vasilisa!"
                    6. Phil77
                      Phil77 15 September 2020 20: 59 New
                      +3
                      -Dear! And let's call our son Heraclius, and our daughter Vasilisa?
                      -Aha! And then they will be Uncle Ira and Aunt Vasya. No.
                    7. 3x3zsave
                      3x3zsave 15 September 2020 21: 11 New
                      +3
                      I have a friend, Lyubomir ... Well, "Lyuba" and "Lyuba" ... That still brutal male, by the way!
                  2. Korsar4
                    Korsar4 15 September 2020 21: 35 New
                    +3
                    “Message for Signor Rosario Agro:
                    “You had a girl in Rome” (c).
                  3. 3x3zsave
                    3x3zsave 15 September 2020 21: 40 New
                    +2
                    "Rosario Agro has never been caught up!" (FROM)
  • 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 14 September 2020 15: 13 New
    +2
    There is a saying in St. Petersburg: "Peter is a small city" laughing
  • VIP
    VIP 13 September 2020 17: 44 New
    +6
    "it was necessary for Anna Ivanovna, not beloved by our sources," in fact, the Russian Russian army was then real commanders: Rumyantsev, Lassi, and Peter 1 as a commander does not roll
  • Astra wild
    Astra wild 13 September 2020 19: 41 New
    +4
    Valery, I have already said that I admire you and Vyacheslav Olegovich: BRIGHT AUTHORS. Many people need to learn from you.
    I told you that such knowledge as other colleagues, but from the point of view of logic: "nothing is known about the cases of her" treatment "of other people" 1) what kind of husband, and even with the character of Peter, will agree that his wife treat other men? 2) the fact that she did not arrange "psychotherapy sessions" like: Kashperovsky, Longo and others, it is not yet a fact that she could heal.
  • Astra wild
    Astra wild 14 September 2020 14: 58 New
    +1
    Quote: VlR
    And he was told: "Richelieu would immediately take the other half from you."

    Did Peter tell you this himself, or did the choir director? It seems that by that time Louis 14 had died, and Louis 15 was still small.
    1. VLR
      14 September 2020 17: 38 New
      +1
      The hint was that Louis XIII was king, but in fact the power was with Richelieu, who ruled the state.
  • 1536
    1536 15 September 2020 15: 21 New
    0
    Historical fact: The Swedish king Karl XII demanded from the Turkish Sultan the opportunity to take part in the beating of the Russian army of Peter I. "Allow me, Sultan! And I will bring you Tsar Peter with a rope around his neck!" - said Karl XII. The Sultan did not give his consent. Then the king of Sweden became very angry, and, leaving the chambers, turned so "awkwardly" that he touched the Sultan's silk upper caftan with his sword sheath and tore it apart. The Sultan did not detain and punish the impudent person. But since then, relations between Turkey and Sweden have not worked out.