The USC told about the work on the fifth generation submarines "Kalina" and "Husky"

The United Shipbuilding Corporation continues to work on projects for the latest fifth generation submarines. According to the head of the USC, the work is being carried out on an initiative basis.

According to Rakhmanov, work on the Husky nuclear submarine and the Kalina diesel submarine did not stop, development is being carried out on an initiative basis and at the expense of USC funds. Previously, part of the development within the framework of projects was paid for by the Ministry of Defense.

Nobody canceled these projects. We are continuing to develop them as part of what can be done proactively. There was part of the work that was paid for by the Ministry of Defense, part of the work is now continuing on its own initiative

- said the head of USC.

Rakhmanov stressed that the topic of the next generation of submarines worries both the fleet and industry, but the Ministry of Defense has not yet made a decision on fifth generation submarines in order to fully finance developments in this direction.

There are issues that can be solved with relatively little money and engineering work. But our options for spending net profits are also limited. We would really like to see decisions on promising fifth-generation boats made in the very near future.

- he added.

Note that the official information about the fifth generation submarines is classified. According to earlier publications in the press, the Husky nuclear submarine is being developed in two versions, distinguished by weapons, and the Kalina diesel must have an air-independent power plant.

Comments

[BAI]

The problem is that initiative works are of little interest to the Ministry of Defense - it is not responsible for them, the money is not his. Work on small arms on an initiative basis very often ended in a basket. The Ministry of Defense said "Yes, the pistol (large-caliber sniper rifle) is good, let me try it in the troops", about the result - "good", but did not buy it.

[Temples]

According to Rakhmanov, work on the Husky nuclear submarine and the Kalina diesel submarine did not stop, development is being carried out on an initiative basis and at the expense of the USC.

Joint Stock Company United Shipbuilding Corporation was established on March 21, 2007 in accordance with the decree of the President of Russia V. V. Putin No. 394. 100% of shares of JSC USC are in federal ownership.

At the expense of taxpayers.
The corporation has nothing of its own.
Everything belongs to the state.

[Abrosimov Sergey Olegovich]

Quote: Temples

Joint Stock Company United Shipbuilding Corporation was established on March 21, 2007 in accordance with the decree of the President of Russia V. V. Putin No. 394. 100% of shares of JSC USC are in federal ownership.

At the expense of taxpayers.
The corporation has nothing of its own.
Everything belongs to the state.

Here you are not entirely right. USC, as you correctly noted, is a JOINT STOCK COMPANY, i.e. a separate business entity. Therefore, it has its own property and funds. The fact that the state is a 100% shareholder of USC gives the state shareholder rights prescribed in the Law "On Joint Stock Companies", namely, to convene annual and extraordinary meetings of shareholders, to nominate candidates to the Board of Directors and vote for these candidates, to elect the General Director, to approve annual report...
However, the property and funds contributed to the authorized capital of a joint-stock company are the property of this company from the moment of registration (state registration).
Thus, USC has its own funds.

[Boris ⁣ Shaver]

Quote: Abrosimov Sergey Olegovich

collect annual and extraordinary meetings of shareholders, nominate candidates for the Board of Directors and vote for these candidates, elect the General Director, approve the annual report

Receive the same net profit in the format of dividends.

Quote: Abrosimov Sergey Olegovich

funds contributed to the authorized capital

Read carefully. It's about spending profits, not about authorized capital.

[Abrosimov Sergey Olegovich]

Quote: Boris ⁣Razor

read carefully. It's about spending profits, not about authorized capital.

So an independent business entity - JSC independently decides what to do with profit. Yes, at the general meeting of shareholders a decision is made to pay / not pay dividends and their (dividends) amount, but the remaining funds are the property of the JSC.
Initially, the respected Khramov (Vladimir) doubted that USC, as a joint-stock company with 100% state participation, actually has its own funds, claiming that everything is state-owned.

[Boris ⁣ Shaver]

Quote: Abrosimov Sergey Olegovich

Yes, at the general meeting of shareholders a decision is made on the payment / non-payment of dividends

And the shareholder is there, attention, one.
Thus, if the profit went to the household activities of the company, it means that the very only shareholder sent it to this, pulling (not putting), in fact, this money from his own pocket. It turns out that the state is being spent on the project today. money. Our money with you.

[mvg]

Everything belongs to the state.

And therefore there are debts for a billion $, and again half is written off, and the other half is extinguished from the budget (at the expense of ordinary citizens). Second WHA.

[Zhan]

Quote: BAI

The problem is that initiative works are of little interest to the Ministry of Defense - it is not responsible for them, the money is not his. Work on small arms on an initiative basis very often ended in a basket. The Ministry of Defense said "Yes, the pistol (large-caliber sniper rifle) is good, let me try it in the troops", about the result - "good", but did not buy it.

Work on the AK-47 and the SU-25 attack aircraft was also proactive at the beginning.
So this is what I mean, if the engineers in the design bureau are sitting there kicking, not flexing their brains, we will lose our design school. This has already happened ...

[PSih2097]

Quote: Zhan

Work on the AK-47 and the SU-25 attack aircraft was also proactive at the beginning.

T-34 and KV also appeared on an initiative basis, tk. TK required A-20 and QMS.

[businessv]

Quote: BAI

The Ministry of Defense said "Yes, the pistol (large-caliber sniper rifle) is good, let me try it in the troops", about the result - "good", but did not buy it.

Yes, unfortunately it was with the assistance or inaction of the Defense Ministry that many interesting and promising projects were buried. But unfortunately, today it is "money that decides everything" (c), including in the MO, so I think that a rollback decides everything .

[NEXUS]

There are issues that can be solved with relatively little money and engineering work. But our options for spending net profits are also limited. We would really like to see decisions on promising fifth-generation boats made in the very near future.

The enterprise INITIATIVELY scrapes Husky and Kalina, but the Kremlin does not care, the Kremlin tells the whole world what kind of submarines we will have, invisible and powerful.
With such a "market" approach, our military-industrial complex will not produce anything innovative quickly and, most importantly, on time.

[prior]

So it turns out that the Kremlin is an enemy of Russia?

[Bashkirkhan]

Quote: NEXUS

The Kremlin doesn't care, the Kremlin tells the whole world

The Kremlin is a medieval fortress. Here the question is for the government of the RFii.

[Swan]

Quote: prior

So it turns out that the Kremlin is an enemy of Russia

Not all of it, of course, but it would not hurt to clean it there.

[FenH]

Quote: NEXUS

There are issues that can be solved with relatively little money and engineering work. But our options for spending net profits are also limited. We would really like to see decisions on promising fifth-generation boats made in the very near future.

Enterprise INITIATIVE plows Husky and Kalina.

They can’t scold VNEU for a long time, and they can proactively and with kicks, you look at the “prior” they will install them. With the money that was thrown into these developments, ready-made ones could be bought

[KVU-NSVD]

proactive order in a state corporation is the hidden military expenditures of the state outside the budget.

[Aag]

Quote: KVU-NSVD

proactive order in a state corporation is the hidden military expenditures of the state outside the budget.

Well, if so!

[KVU-NSVD]

Quote: AAG

Well, if so!

Are there other options?

[Aag]

Quote: KVU-NSVD

Quote: AAG

Well, if so!

Are there other options?

Surely there is, I don't know ...
And, to your previous comment: budget funds are probably still being spent, only they do not go through the Ministry of Defense.

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Quote: KVU-NSVD

proactive order in a state corporation is the hidden military expenditures of the state outside the budget.

No, they are not hidden at all. It's just that the state doesn't finance them now. If the ROC funding is resumed, the USC costs will be paid. If not, then the USC will be at a loss.
Although they are a state corporation, they have profits (including under government contracts), which they have the right to use for internal investments. Here it will decrease. Or the loss will increase ...

[KVU-NSVD]

Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk

It's just that the state doesn't finance them now. If the ROC funding is resumed, the USC costs will be paid. If not, then the USC will be at a loss.
Х

So I say - extra-budgetary financing by the state corporation of ROC, incomprehensible in terms of profitability ... The state corporation and the state ... will write off the losses, if necessary ..

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Quote: KVU-NSVD

So I say - extra-budgetary financing by the state corporation of ROC, incomprehensible in terms of profitability ...

Victor, you do not understand :))))
R&D work continues, so the USC naturally spends money on it (does not fire designers, pays for consumables, etc.). Profit on them can arise only if the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation decides to pay for these ROC. In this case, the profit will be completely understandable (the ROC pricing mechanism has been completely worked out) - this is, roughly, 20% of the USC costs
If the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation does not order R&D by like, then the USC, it turns out, will finance these works at its own expense, and will reflect the costs during the period of their implementation, and there will be no proceeds from the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation. Accordingly, the profit of USC from other R&D projects and activities will decrease by the amount of R&D costs

[Connor MacLeod]

Well, where is 11000 tons in it? 9000 t maximum! Exactly what is needed! Why are they not on the stocks yet?

[Conell f]

I think Russia needs a minister who has a good sniff of gunpowder, otherwise many projects for some reason often began to turn into projections ... into projections! Even Severstal was lost, and after all, a lot of money is always pledged for modernization, where is Zin's money?!?!

[mvg]

need a minister well-smelling gunpowder

We need a smart minister who listens to professionals and wisely spends budget money. We have such after the Second World War died out. Either the Arabs were supplied for free, or Africa and Cuba. Or crazy projects like Buran-Energia.
And the admirals, who smelled gunpowder, fought for project 1123/1143 by non-aviation carriers and non-cruisers with pocket Yak-38s.

[Alexey RA]

Quote: mvg

And the admirals, who smelled gunpowder, fought for project 1123/1143 by non-aviation carriers and non-cruisers with pocket Yak-38s.

In all fairness: he fought for 1143 Marshal of Industry - Dmitry Fedorovich Ustinov. Admirals for the most part (except adhering to the boots Amelko) wanted full 1153/1160.

[mvg]

wanted full 1153/1160.

And that's why they stuck 12 Granites? They also wanted a full-fledged air defense / missile defense. Although the best air defense is the SU-33 / MiG-29. It would be better to have stuck a catapult, especially since it was.
I am surprised how we got Gorshkov in India. With that money it was possible to order a full-fledged vessel in Spain, Holland. And the Americans would not mind selling Kitty Hawk. The price tag is slightly less than the atomic Nimitz at 100 thousand tons, for half the ship and four times the smaller wing.

[Alexey RA]

Quote: mvg

And that's why they stuck 12 Granites?

16 or even 20.

Quote: mvg

It would be better to have stuck a catapult, especially since it was.

There were catapults at 1160 and 1153. Here is 1160:

And even at 1143.5 there was a catapult at first (Maureen wrote about this). But she was thrown out of there under pressure from the Ustinov-Amelko duet. The latter generally closed all work on the catapults - just when the Proletarskiy Zavod conducted successful tests.

[mvg]

At 1160 and 1153, the catapults were just

I read about 1160. Where would it be built? Black Sea, Nikolaev? And this is with the nuclear power plant? And even the industry itself doubted that we could. 3 aircraft carriers in 12 years, unrealistic terms. Plus there was no ready-made deck. Neither fighter, nor strike, nor AWACS. MiG-23 and Su-24 are not so-so options. Even the Americans abandoned the F-111. And the F-14 did not serve for long.
The deck boat should be of the Hornet or Raphael type, small, with a carrying capacity of 6-8 tons.
And this in the 70s, when they did not deny themselves anything.

[Alexey RA]

Quote: mvg

I read about 1160. Where would it be built? Black Sea, Nikolaev?

Yes. Moreover, for the construction of 1143, the plant still had to be overhauled.

Quote: mvg

And even the industry itself doubted that we could.

Projects 1160 and 1153 were promoted by Butoma. When the Ministry of Tyazhprom refused to make a catapult, Butoma transferred the work on it to the Proletarsky Plant of his ministry.

Quote: mvg

3 aircraft carriers in 12 years, unrealistic terms.

The first three were built in 1143 during the same time. And there were also problems over the roof.

Quote: mvg

Plus there was no ready-made deck.

As for 1143. To call the Yak-38 ready at the time of delivery of the head 1143 is to flatter him very much.

Quote: mvg

MiG-23 and Su-24 are not so-so options.

Transitional aircraft. In 1975, experienced MiG-29s were already under construction.

[Alexey RA]

Here is what its chief designer A.B. Morin wrote about 1160:

Preliminary project 1160 (carried out under my leadership, as chief designer) was a broad design study of eight AB variants with different armament, power plant types, and displacement ranging from 40 to 000 tons. Due to the lack of a developer of special aviation -technical devices (catapult, aerofinisher and emergency barrier), their preliminary designs were carried out by NPKB.

For the first time, with the participation of counterparties, in addition to AB itself, the need for the development of industrial capacities, the choice of a construction plant, the issues of providing coastal and floating basing, the creation and development of special devices, training of flight and technical personnel of ship aviation, etc. total costs for the implementation of the AB series construction program of three ships of Project 1160. To reduce the time needed to create such AB, in terms of the depth of elaboration of issues that determine the design and construction of such complex ships, the preliminary design 1160 corresponded to the volume of the draft design (about 900 documents were issued). At the same time, the Minaviaprom design bureau developed preliminary aircraft designs for this AB.

After consideration by the Presidium of the NTS of the Ministry of Industry and the joint NTS of the Ministry of Industry, Minaviaprom, the Navy and the Air Force (with the participation of the leadership of all defense industries, whose enterprises were involved in the creation of the AB, the development of avant-projects for the ship, aircraft, aviation and other weapons for it) was recommended for further design version of the atomic multipurpose aircraft with a displacement of about 80 tons, which had optimal combat and economic performance, with catapult take-off aircraft (fighter Su-000 type, anti-submarine type P-27) and Ka-42 type helicopters with a total number of shipborne aircraft (LAC) of up to 27 aircraft, the Granit anti-ship missile system (SCRC), anti-aircraft fire weapons and electronic weapons.

That is, the design of AB was carried out in conjunction with aviation and the ship industry. Moreover, they were immediately laid down on promising aircraft - Su-27.

[mvg]

That is, the design of AB was carried out in conjunction with aviation and the ship industry.

For 12 years built 2 pieces 1143. Barely barely. And these are simpler and cheaper projects, and 40 thousand tons, this is not 80. Plus the air wing is not 70-80 aircraft, but 36. And which of the MiG-23 fighters, even in the MLD version? How could he compete with the F-14? And with what load did the Su-24 take off? He has a thrust-to-weight ratio of 0,5-0,6. As for the Su-27K, as I understand it, it still works on the ground with a sin in half. Even though it weighs as much as two Raphael. And it carries the same amount of weapons, while if you hang Hephaestus and an additional tank, also 2 suspension points are covered. In 2016, they seemed to be doing modernization, but I don't know how successful it was.

[Andrey Ostroushko]

Admiral Kuznetsov is based in the Arctic Circle. I am wondering if steam turbines will operate at subzero temperatures?

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Andrey Ostroushko

Admiral Kuznetsov is based in the Arctic Circle. I am wondering if steam turbines will operate at subzero temperatures?

Did you mean catapults?
Yes, they will. Confirmed in practice by American AWs operating in the Bering Sea (Carl Vinson) and in the north of the Norwegian Sea (America in two Ocean Safari exercises).
Here are the conditions under which Karl Vinson worked:

[Andrey Ostroushko]

It is clear, however, the average winter temperature in Norway is 5, in Norilsk -35, although the same latitude, and this is a big difference.

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Andrey Ostroushko

It is clear, however, the average winter temperature in Norway is 5, in Norilsk -35, although the same latitude, and this is a big difference.

There is nothing to do in Norilsk AV - he has no opponents there.
Opponents of our AB will be in that part of the AO where their AB can work. So the conditions will be about the same.

[Andrey Ostroushko]

Then it makes sense for them to butt for our Northern Sea Route, do they have suitable equipment?

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Quote: mvg

And the admirals, who smelled gunpowder, fought for project 1123/1143 by non-aviation carriers and non-cruisers with pocket Yak-38s.

nope, it's definitely not admiral's. This is Ustinov

[agond]

Once again, on the topic of which design is better to choose for new boats, single-hull or the usual double-hull, it is good to remember that in general the thickness of the walls of the vessels working in compression, in our case it is a strong submarine hull linearly depends on its diameter (the keyword is linear), and the area the cross-section of a strong body is proportional to the square of the diameter, that is, the relationship is not linear.
Hence it follows that with equal internal volumes of a short - "thick" and long - "thin", the area of ​​the walls of their outer surface will be different, respectively, and their mass and "thick! Body will be lighter than a" thin "one, and a sphere of the same volume will be the lightest.
Thus, a submarine with an outer strong body can objectively be built with higher mass strength indicators compared to a submarine with an outer lightweight body,

[bars1]

According to RIA Novosti, referring not to Rakhmanov, Husky "will have two options for weapons:
The first, armed with calibers to fight the enemy submarine (I didn’t come up with it, so the agency reports. Probably we are talking about missile-torpedoes of the family)
Second option: armed with Zircons - to fight NK
If this is true, then there will be no unification of Zircons and Caliber / Onyx launchers.

[postum]

In general, do not wait until 2030