The deadlines for the end of state tests of equipment on the Kurganets-25 platform have been announced

The Ministry of Defense has agreed on a schedule for testing military equipment on the Kurganets-25 platform. Reported by "News" with reference to sources in the MIC.

The Russian military department and the military-industrial complex have agreed on a test schedule for infantry fighting vehicles and armored personnel carriers on the Kurganets-25 platform. According to the new schedule, preliminary tests of combat vehicles will take place from May to October 2021, and state tests will begin in November, which should take about 12 months. At the same time, it is noted that state tests can be extended if any shortcomings are revealed, time will be given to correct them.

The Ministry of Defense reported that tests of individual components and units of equipment are currently underway.

At present, the troops are in trial operation with several dozen military equipment on the Kurganets-25 platform of various configurations, which are not final. The first batches of combat vehicles were delivered to the 2nd Guards Taman Motorized Rifle Division. It is this technique that is a participant in military parades on Moscow's Red Square.

Earlier, the Minister of Industry and Trade of Russia Denis Manturov said that the final dates for the delivery of equipment on the Kurganets-25 platform will be determined by the Ministry of Defense based on the results of state tests, which are planned to be completed in 2022.

Comments

[Kerensky]

The title does not match the content. What to do - now it is a frequent occurrence ...

[NEXUS]

Quote: Kerensky

The title does not match the content. What to do - now it is a frequent occurrence ...

In the article, it is written in black in Russian ...

At present, the troops are in trial operation with several dozen military equipment on the Kurganets-25 platform of various configurations, which are not final.

That is, in the translation completely into Russian, during military tests, shortcomings were revealed and the wishes of the military were expressed. Now all this will be finalized with a file, and in a couple of years the final product will be presented.

[Alexey from Perm]

a couple of years? yes, at least 5 years, maybe ten

[YOUR]

If only .... Now this is what an agreement and a promise to the emergence of new technology in service. Interestingly enough fingers and toes to count everything.
Su-57 about the end of testing, acceptance into service and the beginning of serial production, serial 76 units in 10 years, announced 3 times. The latter, probably not the last, but the last, production will begin on 29.05.2019/XNUMX/XNUMX.
But ......

[Alexey from Perm]

Well, what do you want, a country in which the economy is geared towards the production of raw materials cannot be otherwise.

[bayard]

It is possible in Syria to bump into such a big thing with penguins - the big "Kurgan" is far to be seen.
And it stands as the last modification of the T-90.

[Zaurbek]

In Syria, threats will increasingly come down to mine warfare ... and ambush attacks.

[bayard]

So he has some kind of boxes on the sides, just from an ATGM from ambushes - he will do it. Will play the role of bait for grenade launchers ... "There is a mountain-Kurgan, luring all ATGMs to hunt ... until they are completely destroyed."
Terrible, large, comfortable, for police operations.
Americans will be jealous.

[Zaurbek]

Well, not more than American armored personnel carriers and MRAPs. By modern standards, a mid-size BMP.

[bayard]

I saw his photo next to the T-90 - mountain-a ... next to the mouse (T-90).
One kind will win!
And the cost.
But comfort and security cannot be taken away.
On such a liberated Berlin or London - the very thing to ride. Shine with power ... Military Police.
Tremble the Anglo-Saxons.
And submit!

[Zaurbek]

Boxer, Patria .... + or - proportionate.

[bayard]

So we'll catch up and overtake!
Squat technique is no longer in vogue.

[Zaurbek]

There is such a trend. And it is in stock and a lot and is being upgraded.

[_M_]

What are you talking about? For the Syrian / Libyan scenarios, the BMP-1 / BMP-2 are still gathering dust in thousands of storage.
And in a high-tech war, aiming does not go along the profile - with the eye through the bar, but along the laser and thermal imager - and they (modern) do not care about the profile of a jeep or that of BELAZ.
But security and armament are the main characteristics of survival.

[bayard]

Have you looked at the price?
About $ 4 million , and this is not even the price of the T-90, this is the price of the Armata T-14. So maybe for the sake of BIGGER security and unification of platforms, accept the T-15? At least it is unified with the T-14.
And "Kurganets-25" is not unified with anyone or anything. Therefore, it will be expensive (very), but unloved in the troops. Especially zampotekh - to maintain and repair equipment in general with no other spare parts that do not intersect ... this is a crap.
And, AGAIN - see the price tag.
For the same or a similar price, you can buy the T-15, and it will be a platform unified with the T-14.
Now do you understand WHAT I mean?

"Kurganets" is effective, comfortable and protected ...
But DEAR!
Like Armata.
So maybe it's her ?!
T-15?
And you don't have to plant a zoo.
A ragtag.
If we, as Israel, had the military budget provided by third-party uncles - yes to health!
I would not say too much.
But our budget is limited, and the question is: either one Kurganets-25, or one Armata T-14, or T-15.
And what to choose?
Or so - one "Kurganets-25", or three BMP-3M.
what to choose?
If you fight tomorrow?
The Germans had very good tanks (guns, optics, armor) ... But they were very expensive, difficult and capricious in operation.
Who should serve this assortment?
Or is unification better?
On the chassis?
On the engine and chassis?
By protection systems?
And we, except for "Kurganets", on this platform, there is nothing.
Yes and no need.

It's a pity of course the money spent.
And such a machine can be useful for the National Guard and the military police ... But the price in this particular case does not justify the quality obtained ... WITH LIMITED RESOURCES.

The questions should be looked at COMPLETELY.

[Albert1988]

Quote: bayard

About $ 4 million

Where did you get such figures from?

Quote: bayard

For the same or a similar price, you can buy the T-15, and it will be a platform unified with the T-14.

T-15 is almost 60 tons, Kurgan - about 25-27 tons, are you sure that these are interchangeable vehicles?

Quote: bayard

Or so - one "Kurganets-25", or three BMP-3M.
what to choose?

If three BMP-3s die where one Kurgan survives, then definitely a Kurgan, and he will survive, since firstly KAZ, and secondly, normal mine protection and passive armor, and not "luminium".

Quote: bayard

And we, except for "Kurganets", on this platform, there is nothing.

What's the difference? Unification is beneficial only for machines that are produced in relatively small batches. And the Kurgan will replace the BMP-1 and BMP-2, and how many of them do we have? How many Kurgan residents will have to be made? That's right - here the price will also decrease due to the mass scale and there will be no problems for the replacement techs, because there will be a lot of them everywhere ...

[bayard]

Quote: Albert1988

Where did you get such figures from?

Magpies on their tails were worn, and for a long time. And officially.
This topic was rather heatedly discussed, and the Army refused this (Kurganets). "The dream of a grenade launcher" was called not by me, but by the command of the Ground Forces. And the price is prohibitive and irrational - the financial service of the RF Ministry of Defense.
But the industry invested in it, invested very seriously and counted on profit.
The trouble is that his price came out at the level of his last Western classmates, so it will hardly be possible to reduce the price for domestic purchases by deliveries under external contracts. And at the available price they do not want / did not want to take it.
But there is lobbying. Precisely the same lobbying, as well as the nuclear "super destroyer" and "corvette 20386" ...
And at the same time, the upgraded BMP-1 with a module from the BTR-82A (!) And T-72B3 with the most budget version of the modernization are entering service ... Do you know why?
Because the Military Threat and the Army need to be re-equipped as soon as possible, for the available money, so that the equipment is repairable and does not cause problems with the development of personnel, so that the soldiers mobilized from the reserve can simply sit on the already familiar equipment, so that spare parts are available, in sufficient quantity and every part.
And to the RIGHT TIME.

Quote: Albert1988

T-15 is almost 60 tons, Kurgan - about 25-27 tons, are you sure that these are interchangeable vehicles?

And this is not a panacea for all needs, but a highly protected assault infantry vehicle. Those. machine for specific tasks, not just in case.
The command of the Ground Forces opposed this vehicle, not because its performance characteristics are bad, but because the state would not be able to provide massive supplies in a short time, because it is difficult to conceptually fit these masses into battle formations into combat tactics. And as a result, at best, several brigades will be able to transfer to this technique.
Because we do not have a socialist state, when it is possible to concentrate the efforts of industry and finance on the most priority tasks and to solve them as soon as possible. This is not possible under capitalism. With non-sovereign capitalism, even more so. When capital is transferred to offshores and foreign funds, when the state does not have its own Treasury and there is no sovereign right to issue its own currency and the ability to independently finance its own economy. But the "state" gives guarantees for the defense industry enterprises to receive loans (!) In commercial banks (!!!) for the development of equipment under the state order.
?!
Not .
This is just how our "state" is arranged, in which power is limited from all sides by external forces that have established the rules. And the restrictions are primarily FINANCIAL.
And even the well-meaning representatives of "vlast" have opportunities for financial maneuver in favor of the state and the People .... extremely limited and constrained.
And you mean "Kurganets".

Quote: Albert1988

And the Kurgan will replace the BMP-1 and BMP-2, and how many of them do we have? How many Kurgan residents will have to be made? That's right - here the price will also decrease due to the mass scale

No, it will not .
The modernized BMP-2 and BMP-1M are going to the troops in a wide stream.
Here they go.
Really - in echelons.
In the best case for him, two or three brigades will be transferred to him (Kurganets). And they will try to find him a buyer abroad.
This is reality .
Not a single sample of "Kurganets" was presented at "Army-2020", and everyone noticed it.
Doesn't that convince you too?
And the articles about him that appeared after that are the work of lobbyists from the industry.
Remember the statements of the USC management about its readiness to build an armada of "Leaders" - these atomic monsters, in which even the most powerful Soviet Union became disillusioned.
Here is the same picture with "Kurganets".
Yes, the infantry must be protected. And for this there is / appeared the BMP-3M - with enhanced armor, the transfer of the engine to the front, an uninhabited module (optional) and powerful side screens from the Kurganets.
And this car in the command of the Land Forces is looking with much great interest.
And, by the way, they are going to use many of the Kurganets' developments in the new BMP-3M.

... It would be nice to change all motorists to Bentleys, Rolls-Royces and Austin-Martins ... but this is unrealistic.

[Albert1988]

Quote: bayard

Magpies on their tails were worn, and for a long time. And officially.

Magpies usually nest in editorial offices, as well as on the Internet, but I have only met the official forty so far in Ukraine ...

Quote: bayard

"The dream of a grenade launcher" was called not by me, but by the command of the Ground Forces.

I wonder what kind of military men called him that and where? Especially if the vehicle did not take part in hostilities and was not fired upon in real conditions? The car, by the way, has as many as 2 KAZ - "Afghanite" and an advanced version of the "thrush".

Quote: bayard

And the price is prohibitive and irrational - the financial service of the RF Ministry of Defense.

Are you aware that the manufacturer sets the price? And that until recently Kurganmashzavod was an extremely independent structure, driven into a complete debt trap by its management, and disrupting contracts even for the same BMP-3?

Quote: bayard

The trouble is that his price went out at the level of his last western classmates

Could it be the manufacturer's excessive appetites? And then - do you know why such expensive Western BMPs? To a large extent, because the life of the landing party is cherished, and coffins of the BMP-1/2 type are no longer needed by anyone.

Quote: bayard

And at the available price they do not want / did not want to take it.

Respected! What to take! He has not yet passed the test! Its final appearance is not even defined! Do you even know that those Kurgan people who appear at the parades from year to year are changing very constructively, even the place of the mechanic has moved there, not to mention the little things!
And you "take"!

Quote: bayard

And this is not a panacea for all needs, but a highly protected assault infantry vehicle. Those. machine for specific tasks, not just in case.

Then the question is - how are you going to replace the massive BMP with such a specialized vehicle, which Kurgan is?

Quote: bayard

Precisely the same lobbying as the nuclear "super destroyer"

This is the one that has been shelved for 3-4 years already? The beige lobby turned out to be

Quote: bayard

The command of the Ground Forces opposed this vehicle, not because its performance characteristics are bad, but because the state would not be able to provide massive supplies in a short time, because it is difficult to conceptually fit these masses into battle formations into combat tactics. And as a result, at best, several brigades will be able to transfer to this technique.

I'll tell you a secret - firstly, in the future there will be no tank armies of tens of thousands of units, so a couple of well-equipped and trained brigades can be more effective than legions of thousands ... The situation has changed a little ...

Quote: bayard

Because we are not a socialist state

Ugumch, well, yes, yes, the old mantras about the economy ... Normally, our economy pulls everything, you just need to wool everyone regularly, by the way, Kurganmashzavod has already been scrubbed and just on the topic of Kurgan - the result is a change of leadership and an increase in production rates ...

Quote: bayard

No, it will not .

In 2015, in April, many people here told me that there would be no armata on the parde, since there is no armata and there cannot be ... So you have to be very careful, claiming that something will not happen, or vice versa .. ...

Quote: bayard

Not a single sample of "Kurganets" was presented at "Army-2020", and everyone noticed it.
Doesn't that convince you too?

Dear, my father worked in the defense industry for 40 years and only retired 3 years ago. In his words - all these exhibitions are bullshit and window dressing, because real negotiations on the sale of one or another sample are going on in another place, under different circumstances and with other people)))) Exactly like here - all important negotiations were conducted behind closed doors, and the people who participated in them were somehow on what is on the stands, because they see what is being acquired, like stacks of documents))))

Quote: bayard

Yes, the infantry must be protected. And for this there is / appeared the BMP-3M - with enhanced armor, the transfer of the engine to the front, an uninhabited module (optional) and powerful side screens from the Kurganets.
And this car in the command of the Land Forces is looking with much great interest.
And, by the way, they are going to use many of the Kurganets' developments in the new BMP-3M.

So for a minute there is already such a thing - "dragoon" is called))) has been around for a long time and the military is not interested in something ...
And then - the presence of some hypothetical BMP-3M does not cancel the Kurgan, just as the presence of the T-90M does not cancel the T-14!
So when Shoigu openly says that the Kurgan did not suit us, because a .., b .., c .., then it will be possible to assert something ...
In the meantime, there is an official statement that tests are underway, and they are running normally!

[bayard]

You inattentively read what I wrote. I wrote that the purchases of Kurganets, if any, will be limited to a set for 2 - 3 brigades. For it is very, very expensive. How limited is the purchase of cars on the Armata platform.
Your opinion about the future of "compact armies" does not work in our case - look at the size of the state, the length of the borders, the variety and scale of possible fronts in the future ...
Have you looked?
Now think about what to plug all this.
And further .
The role of BMPs on the battlefield is increasingly reduced to the role of a more armed armored personnel carrier (the difference and their tasks you yourself probably understand well), and therefore they will rarely engage in direct combat. But you need a lot of them - for the entire l / s of the attacking group. Therefore, the old BMP-1 \ 2, and even their modernized versions will increasingly play the role of just such armored personnel carriers.
The rearmament of tank units on the T-72B3 and the modernized T-80 also indicates that the number matters, and the intention to modernize the entire fleet of these tanks confirms this.
To wage colonial wars with a limited contingent on distant shores is not our case, although it does happen. Our theaters are long, vast and varied and require a large amount of equipment and a good reserve thereof for quick replacement of losses.
Financial opportunities .
They will not allow us to transfer all or most of our armored vehicles fleet to new models in the next decade for sure. This means that work on promising systems will continue, and purchases will be limited to battalion, at best, brigade kits.
This is reality .
Exports can speed up and facilitate the rearmament of their Army for new samples, which, by increasing the serial production and reducing the cost as a result, will save money on purchases for themselves. And also the export tax can be used to purchase the same equipment for your Army.
But with "Kurganets" it is more difficult - its price is not inferior to Western models, and therefore a special gain from the export tax (for "Kurganets" the tax will probably have to be reduced, otherwise you will not sell it), but if it works out, the serial production will slightly reduce the price and possibly even beat development cost.

And it will ONLY work if we have this time.
And he seems to be gone.
And if not, then you need to arm yourself with what you already have in warehouses in sufficient quantities, bringing it into line.
And our opponents are not doing better at all.
And this process is very dynamic.

Government management is not a game of "Monopoly", funds and resources are always limited, and one can rely only on real opportunities. Therefore, now the modernized T-72, T-80, BMP-2 and even BMP-1M ... and BTR-82A are going to the troops.
But they go en masse.

[Albert1988]

Quote: bayard

For it is very, very expensive.

You don't even know its price, but you are already talking about the roads))))

Quote: bayard

How limited is the purchase of cars on the Armata platform.

This is also completely unknown to you))) For the cost of production cars is also completely unknown ...

Quote: bayard

Your opinion about the future of "compact armies" does not work in our case - look at the size of the state, the length of the borders, the variety and scale of possible fronts in the future ...

In ours, this is the only way it works - there will be no fronts! There will be raids of hundreds and thousands of "smart and beautiful" missiles, the remainder of which will be cleared by relatively small well-armed and trained units. Gone are the days of tank avalanches and "20-million" armies ...

Quote: bayard

The role of BMP on the battlefield is increasingly reduced to the role of a more armed armored personnel carrier (

Everything is exactly the opposite - the role of BMPs is growing, they are becoming more armored and armed, crawling in firepower to the level of medium tanks! And armored personnel carriers are increasingly evolving into full-fledged infantry fighting vehicles ...

Quote: bayard

Rearmament of tank units on the T-72B3

With the T-72B, oga ... This is NOT a rearmament - it is the modernization of the current rapidly aging fleet. Rearmament is a massive purchase of at least T-90M.

Quote: bayard

To wage colonial wars with a limited contingent on distant shores is not our case, although it does happen. Our theaters are long, vast and varied and require a large amount of equipment and a good reserve thereof for quick replacement of losses.

There will be NO colonial wars even in our case - for there is such a thing - Strategic Missile Forces with TNW ... Finita la comedy ...
And "making up for losses" in the event of a large-scale conflict, back in the USSR, was considered exclusively in the form of reopening of old weapons. For this, by the way, large quantities of T-72B3 and other "berezhki" are being produced - then sent for conservation to create a reserve.

Quote: bayard

They will not allow us to transfer all or most of our armored vehicles fleet to new models in the next decade for sure.

BTTs are no longer the priority direction of the troops - the priority is high-precision weapons (missiles) and aviation, as well as a single information system for conducting network-centric warfare.

Quote: bayard

Exports can speed up and facilitate the rearmament of their Army for new samples, which by increasing the serial production and, as a result, reducing the cost

With the T-90, export did not help the rearmament of the army in any way, only the plant allowed to save ...

Quote: bayard

But with "Kurganets" it is more difficult - its price is not inferior to Western models

Again, nothing concrete is known about the price of the final production version ...

Quote: bayard

And it will ONLY work if we have this time.

I repeat again - now the global war is being waged by other methods - the economy, the Maidans, information wars, proxy wars, the superpowers will not go against each other wall to wall ...

[_M_]

You are an interesting interlocutor ..
I answered ONLY your criticism with regards to the larger profile, comparable to the T-90 (quote for you).
And for some reason you answered in the field of "competitiveness with the T-15" at an equal cost ..
Strange, but okay)

OK. Yes. On this point, I agree with you that unification and single-platform functionality is hyper-important. It is the same on such remote borders as Syria. As with logistics there, just like with warehousing, it is difficult.
But again, the availability of alternatives and competition are not the worst drivers for the development of the industry.

And the fact that such products are needed, especially not in "meat grinders", but where similar military-humanitarian events are held. When losses "out of the blue" are simply not even ideologically acceptable. But we are already a friend)

[Albert1988]

Quote: _M_

But security and armament are the main characteristics of survival.

As well as situational awareness and, preferably, the ability to change the combat module to a more advanced one without noticeable alterations in the vehicle design ...

[_M_]

I agree. I started with the basic

[Artemiy_2]

And yesterday so many tears were shed over the Kurgan. In an article where the author said that Kurgan uses a body from armata

[KCA]

How are the state tests? A foreign authoritative expert said that there will be no Kurganets, there is no money for it?

[Artemiy_2]

Have you doubted? If a foreign expert or a Chinese garbage dump wrote that there will be no Kurgan / Armata / Boomerang / Su-57 and TD, etc., then they are right. Especially if the expert writes that the Kurgan uses a body from armata

[Albert1988]

Quote: KCA

How are the state tests? A foreign authoritative expert said that there will be no Kurganets, there is no money for it?

What are you going to do with all these scoundrels from our MO ?! Only the most authoritative and most expert expert super-expert will write "from there". that I personally heard the cleaning ladies in the coffee next to the metro station, from which the janitors drive to sweep the courtyards of the design bureau, saying that there was no money and everything was "postponed-frozen-canceled-thrown away", and this is 100500% true infa, like those! Take the Ministry of Defense and publish that the tests are going on in a regular way, that we are determining the final appearance, that we are looking for children's sores, even the approximate deadlines have been written ... Well, how can the most competent experts be here?

[KCA]

As it was in the Comedy Club - Putin himself said - Exactly? - Exactly, my brother has an acquaintance who is familiar with a person who is familiar with the driver who drove Putin, something like this

[Albert1988]

Quote: KCA

As it was in the Comedy Club - Putin himself said - Exactly? - Exactly, my brother has an acquaintance who is familiar with a person who is familiar with the driver who drove Putin, something like this

Everything is cooler there! There, a man was talking in McDuck with a man who heard two aunts who work as cleaners in the office opposite the entrance to the factory, where the grandfather works as a watchman, whose nephew is a locksmith in the tram depot, where the trams arrive, where the janitor goes to work in the KB, who sweeps between the shops of the street! Well, this is not even 100500, this is worth thousands of billions trillion percent.

[ficus2003]

Quote: KCA

the expert said that there will be no Kurganets, there is no money for it

There is no money while, therefore they do not refuse, but also do not rush with testing and serial deliveries. Simple practice.

[Albert1988]

Quote: ficus2003

There is no money yet, so they do not refuse, but they are not in a hurry with testing and serial deliveries. Simple practice.

So the fact of the matter is that it's too early to talk about money - the car has not yet passed the set of tests, and the planned ones! But when everything is completed, then the question of money will arise. By the way, judging by the fact that the tests are going on routinely - there is definitely money for development)

[ficus2003]

The point is primarily about money, this Kurgan will be ready for 10 years now, but instead, Russia is investing in the modernization of old equipment, because in the context of sanctions and the crisis, this is the most effective solution.

[Albert1988]

Quote: ficus2003

The point is, first of all, in money, this Kurgan has been ready for 10 years already.

10 years? This is when we have managed to pass 10 years since 2015?

Quote: ficus2003

instead, Russia is investing in the modernization of old technology because in the face of sanctions and the crisis, this is the most effective solution.

Do not mention the sanctions of the fret - this is nothing, there is only one problem for the economy - oil prices, yes, they have seriously adjusted the budget. As for the modernization of old equipment, while the development of a new one is going on (with which we were really 15 years late), we need to have something at least a little digestible, but simply repairing and painting will be ineffective, since it will cost about the same money as modernization...

[ficus2003]

Quote: Albert1988

for the economy there is only one problem - oil prices, yes, they have seriously adjusted the budget.

This problem is not always the case.
Oil will never be expensive again, as soon as the price rises, the factors of its lowering are included (abolition of OPEC quotas, US shale, unprofitable deposits) - this quickly brings the oil price back down and everything starts all over again. So the price will now and forever flounder from $ 25 to $ 70, adjusted for inflation.

[Albert1988]

Quote: ficus2003

This problem is not always the case.
Oil will never be expensive again

In the 80s, when the oil fell, they also said that there were many Wangs and Nostradamus ...
Guessing about the modern economy is even cooler than making horoscopes for a week))

[Old tanker]

He's been riding in parades for 5 years (this turns out to be military tests of an experimental batch!), And also did not go to state tests! Oh how! And it is not known whether they will pass at all. We love to show "scary advanced toys". Only no one is afraid of them, since everyone knows that these are running models in public. Veterans and kids are happy.
And that, not from the moment of development, but from the moment the experimental batch was shown until the end of state tests, it will run 7, or even more years! Shock tempos, let's face it!

[Albert1988]

Quote: Old Tankman

5 years riding in parades (this turns out to be military tests of an experimental batch!)

And you are so unaware that the parade is 1 day + 3-4 days for rehearsals, and there are at least 360 days in a year ... They all this time they also ride only in parades?

Quote: Old Tankman

Only no one is afraid of them, since everyone knows that these are running models in public.

Oha, only these "mock-ups" are somehow good at shooting at ranges ...
If we have such "running models", then what are the combat ones - will they shoot with plasma?

[AKS-U]

Another tales for the suspicious.
This "Kurganets" will shine on Red Square and no further. The fate of the AEK-971, T-14, Su-57 awaits him. And what, have the troops already provided all over the territory from Kal-grad to Vladik? Everywhere is there a new technique to envy the enemies, or is it just being tested?

[Albert1988]

Ugums, “you”, I remember, shouted in April 15 that “there will be no armata in the parade!”, Now you shout that “there will be no troops in the troops!”, Then you will shout that “there is more than one brigade, army division ... "