Military Review

Pensions after the reform: what other guarantees?

80
Pensions after the reform: what other guarantees?

Who guarantees ...



Less than a year later, the Russian Ministry of Finance decided to make retirees happy with long-awaited pension guarantees. The bill, which was developed by Anton Siluanov's department, even has a working title for the next pension innovation: "On a guaranteed pension product."

The document actually had to wait for more than six years, since the individual pension capital (IPC), as you know, was frozen back in 2014 in connection with all known events. But the decision to offer millions of retirees something new, more inspiring and hopeful instead of him was not born until early 2020.

By this time, it became clear that it was necessary to somehow smooth out the negative impression of the pension reform, which had begun to work and it was quite possible to drive hundreds of thousands of people into a dead end, leaving for a well-deserved rest a year and a half later than they could have.


In February 2020, the official flywheel was launched, and the Ministry of Finance began a detailed study of the old idea. But when a large-scale struggle for the health of citizens began, it seemed that the attempt to once again lighten their wallets would be postponed, and postponed for a long time.

There was even a hope that, due to the pandemic and the threat of mass unemployment, the pension reform provisions related to age would be canceled ("Pension reform: not supplement, but cancel"), but employees of the Ministry of Finance continued to work. It's good that not as fast as one could have feared.

There is nothing new in the very desire to create such a system, moreover, enshrined in law, in which citizens will be able to contribute pension savings on a voluntary basis, but, in fact, will become obliged to do so. Something like a voluntary-compulsory mobilization, which has already been used to legalize the notorious fees for major repairs.

Much has been said and written about the fact that future pensioners did not voluntarily contribute during their working life, and the current ones have already contributed much more than they will have time to spend over the years of retirement. A lot has been said and written, and quite officially, also about the fact that pension savings of the past years were eaten by inflation, as well as crises, and, most likely, enemy sanctions.

We were even told that the current pensioners are already being fed by the pensioners of the future. We can say, due to their coming old age. But in our case, the main goal of the new law on the SPP - a guaranteed pension plan, which will be sent from the Ministry of Finance to the Ministry of Labor, is exactly this declared: to create a state program for voluntary contributions.

It is clear that under such a super program it is simply necessary to drive both individuals, that is, ordinary citizens, “for the independent formation of savings,” and business. The documents of the Ministry of Finance say so directly: the project is also suitable "for corporate programs."


So, the program, sorry for the next repetition, implies the voluntary participation of Russians. This was paid special attention to by the authors in the Ministry of Finance. They even explained how they would stimulate citizens and businesses to join the funded program.

It's as easy as shelling pears: the Ministry of Finance is already planning to introduce a special tax deduction. For this, the program, of course, will have to be coordinated with the tax service. What scope for bureaucratic creativity opens up as soon as we are talking about the possibility of steering billions! Several hundred there, several hundred here.

But in the accompanying documents of the department, all this sounds solid: "Creating incentives both for the independent formation of such savings by employees and for the development of corporate pension programs."

Guaranteed pension product: the same GSP will be offered to the public under the promise of "guarantees of the safety of long-term pension savings of citizens from the state." Let's remember that we were also promised an increase in pensions: almost immediately after the start of the reform, and almost a thousand rubles each year.

... and what they guarantee


Now, when there may already be more unemployed people in the country than pensioners, the very willingness to promise and guarantee something can simply scare many. After all, the same officials of the Ministry of Finance, and at the same time the Central Bank, have been trying to formulate the very essence of the ongoing pension changes since 2016.

Since then, the reform has been cranked, but the essence of something has not been able to explain. And with the reluctance to admit that raising the retirement age is a mistake - the key provision of the notorious pension reform, hardly anything can be done. As you know, we have one course - the right one.

So the federal departments are tormented, they are thinking about how it would be more decent to present the next changes without changes to the public. And it is no coincidence that the Pension Fund itself is in no way involved in most of the innovations, and the Ministry of Finance, the Ministry of Economics, or even the tax service are being puffed up for them.

Citizens' credit of trust in the FIU has been exhausted so long ago that they are ready to communicate with its representatives only because they simply have no alternative. The unique chance to turn everything around as if nothing had happened, which the pandemic gave, seems to have been missed.

Although, if, nevertheless, those in power decide to launch a crazy worldwide flash mob with a universal quarantine again, what the devil is not kidding ... Confused in the new idea is not only the rate on the citizens themselves, but also the amounts that they plan to withdraw from you and me.

So, the Ministry of Finance has already written that for every 10 rubles of mandatory pension contributions, there will be one ruble of voluntary. The Ministry of Finance predicts that every year the "voluntary" piggy bank will receive from 600 to 800 billion of our hard-earned rubles.

As a result, according to the project, it turns out that the volume of voluntary contributions from Russians accumulated in the system will increase from 0,96 trillion. rubles in 2021 to 1,54 trillion. in 2022, up to 2,2 trillion. in 2023 and up to 3 trillion. in 2024.

Directly the conclusion suggests itself that, as it were, the "starting" 0,96 trillion. rubles recorded for 2021, the Ministry of Finance will either have to collect literally right away, or they are already available. The Finance Ministry, apparently out of habit, does not specify this. And it is not necessary: ​​much knowledge, as you know, only multiplies sorrow.

However, such a postulate is contained in the materials of the financial department: “The Russians must (note: they must, this is voluntary. - Author) to bring almost 1 trillion rubles to the new system of the State Procurement Service. rubles in the first year of its launch ”.

This is nothing more than a target set, oddly enough, not by the Ministry of Finance, but by the Ministry of Economic Development, in the draft work plan of the government commission on economic development. How confused everything is! But the meeting of the mentioned commission should take place in December.


And someone is already impatient to steer the people's billions. Elvira Nabiullina, the chairman of our Central Bank, has already stated claims against them. The other day, she once again repeated her formula voiced seven years ago, even when she took office as head of the Central Bank of the Russian Federation.

As if commenting on the idea of ​​voluntary pension contributions, Elvira Sakhipzadovna recalled that "the Russian economy needs internal sources of long-term money, and long-term forms of organized savings of citizens are a fundamental resource for investment growth."

And this despite the fact that the Central Bank of the Russian Federation has hundreds of billions not of rubles, but of dollars in various kinds of reserves, which, for some reason, are tied to all sorts of restrictions and obligations to the IMF, its own legislation and even, horror, to the American Federal Reserve.

But in conclusion, about the good. The authors believe that it is not possible to hurry with the next pension innovation as it once did with the pension reform itself. The law on a guaranteed pension plan was supposed to be passed in July 2020, and launched in 2021.

Now, most likely, the very adoption and approval of the law will take place closer to 2021, and money will be collected from us at least six months later. And thanks for that!
Author:
Photos used:
picabu.ru, glavred.info, m.minfin.ru, img4.dp.ru
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  1. The leader of the Redskins
    The leader of the Redskins 9 September 2020 15: 06 New
    28
    Lord, the word that came up with "pension product".
    Is the Russian language really so impoverished? Or this handout cannot be called money any more?
    1. Bashkirkhan
      Bashkirkhan 9 September 2020 15: 11 New
      28
      Because the retirement product for the period of survival sounds really tight. Like a cheese product.
      1. SRC P-15
        SRC P-15 9 September 2020 15: 27 New
        14
        Quote: Leader of the Redskins
        Lord, the word that came up with "pension product".

        And what is there to come up with: a product means "blowing", i.e. our money is being sold again! And who will blow, guess three times! yes
        1. Bashkirkhan
          Bashkirkhan 9 September 2020 16: 09 New
          16
          It's like cheese, curd and dairy products instead of cheese, cottage cheese and milk. Made from shit.
          1. Ross xnumx
            Ross xnumx 11 September 2020 13: 49 New
            +2
            Quote: Bashkirkhan
            It's like cheese, curd and dairy products instead of cheese, cottage cheese and milk. Made from shit.

            The most unusual thought. The most accurate comparison. good

            I do not expect anything good from the Pension Fund and our government in the field of pension changes.
            The pitiful annual percentage allowances to pensions widen the gap between pensioners with a minimum pension and those who have legalized their right to receive a preferential (accrued) pension. And it was just necessary to add a fixed amount, limiting the number of those eligible for the bonus to the average wage in the country (or other criterion).
            The robbery of working pensioners who are not able to live on the assigned pension of 9-11 thousand rubles, called the abolition of indexation, continues.
            Military pensioners do not receive their full pension, and the annual allowance is below the inflation rate.
            Now ask yourself a question:
            "Is this a retirement life you wanted?"
            But it is more pleasant for us to listen to the arguments of Mrs. Nabiullina, who in 2019 alone reported for the “earned” 35,9 million rubles. To earn that kind of money, an ordinary Russian with an average statistical salary (49) needs to work hard for 965 months or almost 718 years. And an ordinary pensioner with a pension of 5 (the national average for 60) can live on this money for 14 years ... belay (or 10 pensioners - 20 years old) ...
            And Sahip alone is not enough for a year ...
        2. astepanov
          astepanov 9 September 2020 17: 47 New
          12
          Quote: SRC P-15
          product means "blow"

          You are wrong. FPR officials produce only one product with an indigestible name. I hint: the letter "g". Here it will be given to us instead of pensions.
      2. krops777
        krops777 9 September 2020 17: 46 New
        12
        Because the retirement product for the period of survival sounds really tight.


        And then there is the concept of "Human material" and "Human resource" worked up to 65 and preferably in the dustbin of history immediately. Inhuman economy IMHO.
    2. Civil
      Civil 9 September 2020 19: 03 New
      21
      1. I will not voluntarily give up a ruble to these scammers. And I do not advise you.
      2. Until the specified year 2028, everyone will have time to steal, hide and make a helpless gesture "Nothing is left."
      3. The ruble is falling annually, plus inflation, what these fraudsters have not stolen will eat up time.
      4. Well, most importantly, each new minister of finance nullifies all the pension guarantees of the previous minister.
      1. ltc35
        ltc35 9 September 2020 20: 57 New
        12
        Most likely, no one voluntarily wants to give. Then the governments use Plan B - forcibly. While I work, there have been several pension reforms and I think that this one will not be the last either.
    3. Narak-zempo
      Narak-zempo 9 September 2020 22: 26 New
      +2
      Quote: Leader of the Redskins
      Lord, the word that came up with "pension product".
      Is the Russian language really so impoverished? Or this handout cannot be called money any more?

      This is a product from people of post-retirement age for people of retirement age laughing
      1. Grandfather
        Grandfather 10 September 2020 03: 35 New
        +6
        Pensions after the reform: what other guarantees?
  2. Overlock
    Overlock 9 September 2020 15: 08 New
    32
    The bill, which was developed by Anton Siluanov's department, even has a working title for the next pension innovation: "On a guaranteed pension product."

    then they will rob again
    1. Svarog
      Svarog 9 September 2020 16: 46 New
      26
      Quote: Overlock
      then they will rob again

      Why again? The process did not stop for a minute.
    2. sergo1914
      sergo1914 9 September 2020 16: 52 New
      +8
      Quote: Overlock
      The bill, which was developed by Anton Siluanov's department, even has a working title for the next pension innovation: "On a guaranteed pension product."

      then they will rob again


      Why rob at once? Do not rob. Invest effectively. Upon retirement, everyone will be accommodated on the shore of the warm sea. With a personal employee of the FIU with the appearance of a young Pamela Anderson. For massage of the neck area.
  3. prior
    prior 9 September 2020 15: 16 New
    12
    The next excrement of the Russian Ministry of Finance has a working title: "On the guaranteed pension product."
    Eh, to feed the creators of this "product" with this very product.
  4. APASUS
    APASUS 9 September 2020 15: 21 New
    11
    The Central Bank of the Russian Federation has hundreds of billions of dollars, not rubles, in various kinds of reserves, which, for some reason, are tied to all sorts of restrictions and obligations to the IMF, its own legislation, and even, oh, horror, to the American Federal Reserve

    The biggest resource for Russia is not money. If the official was responsible for the decisions made, the economy would not grow - it would run!
    And now a dozen more Serdyukovs can figure out how to competently get into the pockets of the population and nothing will happen to them for the next failure of the pension reform!
  5. Virus-free crown
    Virus-free crown 9 September 2020 15: 23 New
    27
    Briefly - for those "who are in the tank" and I am constantly minus - I will tell you about myself wink

    51 years old, the last 15 years I worked purely white with an official white salary of 100.000+ rubles per month - (I was thrown like the last sucker by one citizen of Russia who repeatedly declared to the whole world that while he was the President of the Russian Federation, PERSONALLY I will retire at 60). Due to the stupid actions of the authorities in the fight against coronavirus, our company with 15+ years of successful work experience, where the minimum wage of white employees was from 75.000 rubles, was bankrupt in early June ... Over the whole summer, I did not find a job in my specialty at least from 75.000 rubles in white ... Now I am looking for any job from 150.000 rubles in black ... and I don’t care if I’ll have a pension there at 65, or not - in the very "chocolate case" I dream of living to 62-63 years. .. good

    So ... let such a state go through the forest, in which its citizens do not even dream of living to retire ... From now on:
    - RF by itself
    - my personal future is in itself am wassat
    1. SRC P-15
      SRC P-15 9 September 2020 15: 31 New
      -3
      Quote: Crown without virus
      Over the entire summer, I have NOT found myself a job in my specialty at least 75.000 rubles in white ..

      And find a job in a different specialty and with a lower salary (like many residents of Russia) for you?
      1. Virus-free crown
        Virus-free crown 9 September 2020 15: 50 New
        +2
        Quote: SRC P-15
        Quote: Crown without virus
        Over the entire summer, I have NOT found myself a job in my specialty at least 75.000 rubles in white ..

        And find a job in a different specialty and with a lower salary (like many residents of Russia) for you?

        Honestly - "zapadlo" !!! good
        I have a unique specialty - Project manager in the IT sphere ... There are people like that in Russia - who work in Russian companies and for the good of Russia - nuuuu ... at best ... 1000 people for the whole !!! Russia ... and I am a patriot of my country !!! drinks
    2. Woodman
      Woodman 9 September 2020 15: 32 New
      +4
      Quote: Crown without virus
      I will tell about myself

      I think that regular visitors to the resource have already learned your biography by heart.
      Quote: Crown without virus
      Due to the stupid actions of the authorities in the fight against coronavirus, our company with 15+ years of successful work experience, where the minimum wage of white employees was from 75.000 rubles, was bankrupt in early June.

      And your management, as far as I remember, did not even try to fight for the preservation of the company. Apparently they got everything they wanted.
      1. Virus-free crown
        Virus-free crown 9 September 2020 15: 52 New
        +4
        Quote: Lesovik
        Quote: Crown without virus
        I will tell about myself

        I think that regular visitors to the resource have already learned your biography by heart.
        Quote: Crown without virus
        Due to the stupid actions of the authorities in the fight against coronavirus, our company with 15+ years of successful work experience, where the minimum wage of white employees was from 75.000 rubles, was bankrupt in early June.

        And your management, as far as I remember, did not even try to fight for the preservation of the company. Apparently they got everything they wanted.

        You are STRONG !!! am NOT!!! carefully read my posts ... figuratively speaking, you "pick raisins out of a bun" laughing tongue
        1. Woodman
          Woodman 9 September 2020 15: 56 New
          -2
          Quote: Crown without virus
          You are STRONG !!! NOT!!! read my posts carefully

          It turned out to be easier to bankrupt - your words? I can rummage in your comments and give a full quote. Is it necessary? 15 years to gain experience, reputation, customer base and - "it's easier to go bankrupt." I would understand bankruptcy followed by rebirth under a different "name", but then why are you still unemployed? Here is the conclusion - your management does not care about anything. And people as well. But in your case and in your understanding, in this case, undoubtedly, Putin is to blame.
          1. Virus-free crown
            Virus-free crown 9 September 2020 16: 07 New
            +2
            Quote: Lesovik
            Quote: Crown without virus
            You are STRONG !!! NOT!!! read my posts carefully

            It turned out to be easier to bankrupt - your words? I can rummage in your comments and give a full quote. Is it necessary? 15 years to gain experience, reputation, customer base and - "it's easier to go bankrupt." I would understand bankruptcy followed by rebirth under a different "name", but then why are you still unemployed? Here is the conclusion - your management does not care about anything. And people as well. But in your case and in your understanding, in this case, undoubtedly, Putin is to blame.

            Not! wassat our former Chef acted honestly !!! drinks before transferring all his property to relatives, he gave us a six-month salary ... and he himself fled with capital and physically to Africa - no one will get it there wassat
            1. Woodman
              Woodman 9 September 2020 16: 13 New
              -2
              Quote: Crown without virus
              Not! our former Chef acted honestly !!! before transferring all his property to relatives, he gave us a six-month salary ... and he himself fled with capital and physically to Africa - no one will get it there

              Laughing, honestly)))
              1. Virus-free crown
                Virus-free crown 9 September 2020 16: 19 New
                +2
                Quote: Lesovik
                Quote: Crown without virus
                Not! our former Chef acted honestly !!! before transferring all his property to relatives, he gave us a six-month salary ... and he himself fled with capital and physically to Africa - no one will get it there

                Laughing, honestly)))

                Well, when you earn at least 10 lemons evergreens with your HONEST work - and then, out of lawlessness, they will start taking them away from you, like from my Chief - then you will laugh ... together with my boss ... lol

                When your office is closed according to the coronavirus for 3 months before the delivery of the project - and according to the terms, all employees program only and exclusively in the office - and the removal of a line of code outside the office - automatically you, as Chief, owe a hundred million evergreens ... then we'll talk wassat tongue
                1. Woodman
                  Woodman 9 September 2020 16: 23 New
                  -4
                  Quote: Crown without virus
                  then we'll talk

                  Yes, easily.
                  Quote: Crown without virus
                  and then in lawlessness

                  And what is the chaos? He officially bankrupted the office, he has no property - everything is on his relatives, why did he run away? Something you do not finish ...
                  1. Virus-free crown
                    Virus-free crown 9 September 2020 16: 55 New
                    0
                    Quote: Lesovik
                    Quote: Crown without virus
                    then we'll talk

                    Yes, easily.
                    Quote: Crown without virus
                    and then in lawlessness

                    And what is the chaos? He officially bankrupted the office, he has no property - everything is on his relatives, why did he run away? Something you do not finish ...

                    Okie) for "especially not listening to me" - I will give numbers - CONDITIONAL !!! drinks
                    If we fulfilled the Order in the IT-Sphere for which we subscribed, we would receive 1 rub.
                    When we have not fulfilled the Order, take out and put 100 rubles in compensation. - by contract
                    We estimate all the property of my Chief at 10 rubles. rough

                    Options ?! laughing laughing laughing

                    But we did not fulfill the Order only and exclusively because Sobyanin closed for a while for 3 months access to our office building - he closed it to everyone, all 1000 companies that worked there, not only us ...

                    If an emergency regime were officially announced in the Russian Federation - EASY !!! would get rid of the sanctions ... but ... the emergency regime was not announced ... and our company, how else - roughly offhand - 100.000+ companies all over Russia became bankrupt ...
                    1. Cube123
                      Cube123 10 September 2020 08: 49 New
                      +2
                      Quote: Crown without virus
                      Options ?! laughing laughing laughing

                      But we did not fulfill the Order only and exclusively because Sobyanin closed for a while for 3 months access to our office building - he closed it to everyone, all 1000 companies that worked there, not only us ...

                      If an emergency regime were officially announced in the Russian Federation - EASY !!! would get rid of the sanctions ... but ... the emergency regime was not announced ... and our company, how else - roughly offhand - 100.000+ companies all over Russia became bankrupt ...

                      In fact, this is a typical force majeure that does not exempt from the performance of the contract, but exempts from penalties. This force majeure is recognized by the Chamber of Commerce and Industry. P. 3. massive diseases (epidemics)

                      https://zen.yandex.ru/media/id/5e6a941039bed14bd43c2bfd/forsmajor-ili-ne-forsmajor-vot-v-vopros-instrukciia-dlia-predprinimatelei-pri-zaprete-deiatelnosti-5e80ef63d4abfe57572f51bf?utm_source=serp
                      1. Cube123
                        Cube123 10 September 2020 10: 34 New
                        +1
                        https://www.klerk.ru/buh/articles/497603/
                        "Force majeure due to coronavirus: questions and answers"
                        "In connection with the coronavirus pandemic and the introduction of prohibitive and restrictive measures by regulatory legal acts of state authorities aimed at preventing its spread, as well as direct instructions from the Government of the Russian Federation and the Chamber of Commerce and Industry of the Russian Federation from March 26, 2020 The Moscow Chamber of Commerce and Industry issues Conclusions on force majeure circumstances under contracts concluded between Russian business entities, and provides the related necessary consultations free of charge. "
            2. krops777
              krops777 9 September 2020 17: 57 New
              +3
              Not! wassat our former Chef acted honestly !!! drinks, before transferring all his property to relatives, he gave us a six-month salary ... and he fled with capital and physically to Africa - as if no one will get him there wassat



              The IT sphere is one of the first to suffer from crises, especially those who are engaged in projects are too dependent on leaps in the economy. The chef can work remotely from Africa laughing
              1. Virus-free crown
                Virus-free crown 9 September 2020 18: 01 New
                -3
                Quote: krops777
                Not! wassat our former Chef acted honestly !!! drinks, before transferring all his property to relatives, he gave us a six-month salary ... and he fled with capital and physically to Africa - as if no one will get him there wassat



                The IT sphere is one of the first to suffer from crises, especially those who are engaged in projects are too dependent on leaps in the economy. The chef can work remotely from Africa laughing

                Well, if you do anyhow, and anyhow, then yes, even at a distance from Antarctica bully
                But if you need to assemble a team, keep it in check, and fulfill the Order in the IT sphere exactly on time - there is no way - the option is not to give a ride bully
    3. 72jora72
      72jora72 9 September 2020 15: 57 New
      +4
      Now I'm looking for any job from 150.000 rubles to black.
      You probably worked as a hitman?
      1. Virus-free crown
        Virus-free crown 9 September 2020 16: 10 New
        -1
        Quote: 72jora72
        Now I'm looking for any job from 150.000 rubles to black.
        You probably worked as a hitman?

        Worked as a Project Manager in the IT field ... repeat

        This, you know, is such a job ... when you have three phones - Beeline, MTS and Megafon - must be constantly in touch ... and when a moment before orgasm "trawl-la-la" sounds - the orgasm is canceled - you have to pick up the phone hi
    4. Roman13579
      Roman13579 9 September 2020 15: 59 New
      0
      Already proceeding only from the fact that 7 niggles have minus you at the moment, we can safely conclude with whom we have to live in the same country ..
      Apparently - all those who fattened on your taxes ..))
      1. Virus-free crown
        Virus-free crown 9 September 2020 16: 12 New
        +1
        Quote: Roman13579
        Already proceeding only from the fact that 7 niggles have minus you at the moment, we can safely conclude with whom we have to live in the same country ..
        Apparently - all those who fattened on your taxes ..))

        I always "drown for the laws" - so I’ll say it bluntly ... they are not what you called them ... they are here "in the service" - for this, their salary drips, so that they would minus people like me !!! bully
      2. tatra
        tatra 9 September 2020 16: 39 New
        +1
        Something not particularly the Russian people "fattened" on taxes from the large and huge salaries of the enemies of the Communists, which they made themselves after their capture of Russia, and seriously imagined themselves "processed", "effective, creative, successful and fulfilled"
    5. Engineer
      Engineer 9 September 2020 16: 00 New
      0
      I understand your problem
      After a salary of 100 thousand, it is psychologically difficult to get less
      My decision in a similar situation - I issued an individual entrepreneur, concluded contracts for six months with one employer, paid quarterly 6% came out as before and a little more, even taking into account the fact that there were no more paid vacations. I paid all taxes regularly.
      Now, judging by the reviews, it is even easier given the new payment services.
      Most importantly, after two years of work, the company itself offered full employment with the payment of the same amount, but as a salary.
      65 years old or not - in the very "chocolate case" I dream of living to 62-63 years.

      You will have a pension and savings and live much longer). All the prerequisites are there.
      1. Liam
        Liam 9 September 2020 16: 10 New
        +1
        Over the whole summer, I have NOT found myself a job in my specialty from at least 75.000 rubles in white ... Now I am looking for any job from 150.000 rubles in black.

        It is somehow unconvincing to be honest. If someone does not want to pay 75.000 to the "white", then what is the point of paying 150.000 to the "black" ?.
        150.000 in black is definitely more than 75.000 in white + social benefits, plus the risks of flying
        1. Virus-free crown
          Virus-free crown 9 September 2020 16: 37 New
          -1
          Quote: Liam
          Over the whole summer, I have NOT found myself a job in my specialty from at least 75.000 rubles in white ... Now I am looking for any job from 150.000 rubles in black.

          It is somehow unconvincing to be honest. If someone does not want to pay 75.000 to the "white", then what is the point of paying 150.000 to the "black" ?.
          150.000 in black is definitely more than 75.000 in white + social benefits, plus the risks of flying

          "I use my fingers" wassat
          150.000 for black is LESS than 75.000 for white from the employer's point of view ...

          The same tea, coffee in the office, if they are held officially = boldly multiply by one and a half repeat

          I am silent about the rest ... the most "stupid example" - if I work in white and go on vacation - it seems to me that I work - take out and put my monthly salary - and I work in black - no one owes me anything for my vacation. .. if I work in white and get sick - treatment at the expense of the employer ... I work in black - at my expense ... and so on and so on hi
          1. Liam
            Liam 9 September 2020 17: 19 New
            +1
            Quote: Crown without virus
            The same tea, coffee in the office, if they are held officially = boldly multiply by one and a half

            ))))

            Quote: Crown without virus
            if I work in white and get sick - treatment at the expense of the employer ..

            When sick leave is paid due to illness or injury of an employee:

            for the first three days, payments are made from the funds of the employer (policyholder);
            for the following days - from the funds of the Social Insurance Fund of Russia
            .

            My doubts only grow stronger


            And how much will it cost the employer to fly with an employee into the "black"?
            1. Virus-free crown
              Virus-free crown 9 September 2020 17: 29 New
              -2
              Quote: Liam
              Quote: Crown without virus
              The same tea, coffee in the office, if they are held officially = boldly multiply by one and a half

              ))))

              Quote: Crown without virus
              if I work in white and get sick - treatment at the expense of the employer ..

              When sick leave is paid due to illness or injury of an employee:

              for the first three days, payments are made from the funds of the employer (policyholder);
              for the following days - from the funds of the Social Insurance Fund of Russia
              .

              My doubts only grow stronger


              And how much will it cost the employer to fly with an employee into the "black"?

              Then ISCHO times good for those who are at work and do not read my posts from the point of view of a patriot of Russia, but read my posts just from the point of view of a zaputin, who here minus me, gets, by the way, a "black salary" laughing wassat

              Work in "black in the Russian Federation" for the current moment is arranged as follows:
              - the employee gets a job on the minimum minimum of the official white salary + "wage in an envelope"
              - the employee understands that, getting a job on such conditions - the "surrender" of the employer = "wolf ticket" = and he will never again get a decent salary anywhere in his life - because now communications are sooooo highly developed, and before hiring employees " pierce " love
              1. Liam
                Liam 9 September 2020 17: 37 New
                -2
                I am not interested in your political website battles. I am interested in numbers. And the numbers say that 99% of employers between 75+ social benefits and 150.000 in black + risk of flying will boldly choose the first option.
                Everything else is lyric.
                1. Virus-free crown
                  Virus-free crown 9 September 2020 17: 49 New
                  -2
                  Quote: Liam
                  I am not interested in your political website battles. I am interested in numbers. And the numbers say that 99% of employers between 75+ social benefits and 150.000 in black + risk of flying will boldly choose the first option.
                  Everything else is lyric.

                  Then you and I have been living in DIFFERENT Russia for 30 years. laughing laughing laughing
                  As the saying goes, without leaving the cash register - I have 2 small shops next to my house ... in all two sellers work "in black" for a salary of 35 thousand rubles ... I’m 50 meters to them ... and 200 meters away " Pyaterochka "... where sellers work in white for 21 thousand per month and sellers of Pyatechroka in black envy those sellers who work in black wassat tongue laughing wink
                  1. Liam
                    Liam 9 September 2020 18: 06 New
                    -1
                    Are you trying to convince me that there are gray and black salaries? Don't, I'm aware of this.
                    I'm talking about the numbers that you write. It may be profitable for an employer to pay 90-100.000 in black instead of 75.000+ social benefits. But not 150.000. This is too much and he only loses. White salary + social benefits is less than this amount. Plus the risks of flying. Plus he cannot legally deduct this money from taxes and it is necessary to come up with some cover schemes that also cost money.
                    The numbers of your requests do not beat like that
                    1. Virus-free crown
                      Virus-free crown 9 September 2020 18: 25 New
                      -1
                      Quote: Liam
                      Are you trying to convince me that there are gray and black salaries? Don't, I'm aware of this.
                      I'm talking about the numbers that you write. It may be profitable for an employer to pay 90-100.000 in black instead of 75.000+ social benefits. But not 150.000. This is too much and he only loses. White salary + social benefits is less than this amount. Plus the risks of flying.Plus, he cannot legally deduct this money from taxes. and we need to come up with again some kind of cover schemes that also cost money.
                      The numbers of your requests do not beat like that


                      Laughed sooo much at the highlighted bold text in your post laughing laughing laughing

                      I ... you know ... sooo long ago swore that I would only "argue about the taste of shrimp" with those who tried them wink

                      According to your post, I see that you have never in your life been the owner of a successful business for at least 5 years in a row ... on this "I will silence my illicit speeches" and will not argue with you on this topic anymore love
                      1. Liam
                        Liam 9 September 2020 18: 53 New
                        +1
                        Quote: Crown without virus
                        that you have never in your life been the owner of a successful business for at least 5 years in a row.

                        A bold statement from a person who writes here every day that he is looking for a job and cannot find)
                      2. Virus-free crown
                        Virus-free crown 9 September 2020 23: 21 New
                        -3
                        Quote: Liam
                        Quote: Crown without virus
                        that you have never in your life been the owner of a successful business for at least 5 years in a row.

                        A bold statement from a person who writes here every day that he is looking for a job and cannot find)

                        Yes, I already wrote - it was not because of a good life that I began to work "for my uncle" 15 years ago laughing
                        The state tried to take away that current business from me, I fought back, but my wife put the question bluntly - either she, or my business ... I chose my wife and went to plow for a penny on my uncle recourse
                  2. forest1
                    forest1 10 September 2020 05: 15 New
                    -1
                    Quote: Liam
                    Plus the risks of flying in. Plus, he cannot legally deduct this money from taxes and he has to come up with some cover schemes that also cost money.

                    Easy. Can. This is done this way - everyone gets a minimum wage. And everything else is paid to itself as a salary. The minimum social contributions are paid on themselves (they are pruned on a regressive scale). And as if their salary is distributed in envelopes to employees. Profit. In the regions, this is very common. In principle, you don't get to the bottom of anything especially.
    6. Virus-free crown
      Virus-free crown 9 September 2020 16: 14 New
      -3
      Quote: Engineer
      I understand your problem
      After a salary of 100 thousand, it is psychologically difficult to get less
      My decision in a similar situation - I issued an individual entrepreneur, concluded contracts for six months with one employer, paid quarterly 6% came out as before and a little more, even taking into account the fact that there were no more paid vacations. I paid all taxes regularly.
      Now, judging by the reviews, it is even easier given the new payment services.
      Most importantly, after two years of work, the company itself offered full employment with the payment of the same amount, but as a salary.
      65 years old or not - in the very "chocolate case" I dream of living to 62-63 years.

      You will have a pension and savings and live much longer). All the prerequisites are there.

      I clarify - it is NOT psychologically difficult for me to crawl less than 100.000 rubles ... it is psychologically difficult for me to work outside of my specialty ... and my specialty is to make Russia in the IT sphere cooler than India in the IT sphere good
  6. Svarog
    Svarog 9 September 2020 16: 49 New
    +7
    Quote: Crown without virus
    - RF by itself
    - my personal future is in itself

    Unfortunately, this will not work .. In the Russian Federation, many different laws are coming up so that life would not seem like honey to us, and besides that, they are also actively working to reduce jobs .. So we are all heavily dependent on the Russian Federation ..
    1. Virus-free crown
      Virus-free crown 9 September 2020 17: 33 New
      -1
      Quote: Svarog
      Quote: Crown without virus
      - RF by itself
      - my personal future is in itself

      Unfortunately, this will not work .. In the Russian Federation, many different laws are coming up so that life would not seem like honey to us, and besides that, they are also actively working to reduce jobs .. So we are all heavily dependent on the Russian Federation ..

      Well, vooot ... if ... my nickname here on the forum did not start with "Crown ..." - then yes, yes, I would agree with you !!! good drinks

      But since ... I still have a nickname that begins with "Crown ..." ... repeat I'll get out of it! good wassat tongue drinks
  7. And why do you need
    And why do you need 10 September 2020 00: 41 New
    +1
    Quote: Crown without virus
    Briefly - for those "who are in the tank" and I am constantly minus - I will tell you about myself wink

    51 years old, the last 15 years I worked purely white with an official white salary of 100.000+ rubles per month - (I was thrown like the last sucker by one citizen of Russia who repeatedly declared to the whole world that while he was the President of the Russian Federation, PERSONALLY I will retire at 60). Due to the stupid actions of the authorities in the fight against coronavirus, our company with 15+ years of successful work experience, where the minimum wage of white employees was from 75.000 rubles, was bankrupt in early June ... Over the whole summer, I did not find a job in my specialty at least from 75.000 rubles in white ... Now I am looking for any job from 150.000 rubles in black ... and I don’t care if I’ll have a pension there at 65, or not - in the very "chocolate case" I dream of living to 62-63 years. .. good

    So ... let such a state go through the forest, in which its citizens do not even dream of living to retire ... From now on:
    - RF by itself
    - my personal future is in itself am wassat

    You are a little late, my friend
  • Woodman
    Woodman 9 September 2020 15: 24 New
    0
    Well, that they will rob it, I understood from the article. Where are the numbers? How much does everyone have to contribute to accumulate this trillion? Is this contribution fixed or is it a percentage of salary? The tax deduction was mentioned, probably there is an estimated amount of this deduction, it could have been written. And so it turns out a lot and about nothing ...
    Although, if, nevertheless, those in power decide to launch an insane worldwide flash mob with a universal quarantine again,

    I doubt that our powers that be are able to arrange a "worldwide flash mob". Opportunities are not the same ... It must be a global conspiracy of those in power.
    1. Cube123
      Cube123 10 September 2020 10: 17 New
      0
      Quote: Lesovik
      Well, that they will rob it, I understood from the article. Where are the numbers? How much does everyone have to contribute to accumulate this trillion?

      Don't you have a calculator? Roughly 100 million of working age. 10 thousand rubles each. per year for brother and sister wink About 1 thousand rubles. per month. In reality, it is twice as much.
      1. Woodman
        Woodman 10 September 2020 10: 22 New
        0
        Quote: Cube123
        In reality, it is twice as much.

        Why not at four?
        1. Cube123
          Cube123 10 September 2020 10: 24 New
          +1
          Quote: Lesovik
          Quote: Cube123
          In reality, it is twice as much.

          Why not at four?

          An old Soviet joke: "How many people work at your plant? Yes, about a third."
  • ximkim
    ximkim 9 September 2020 15: 26 New
    +3
    Something I have not read about the clear guarantees not a letter .. The bottom line remains one - carry money for good (voluntarily) and that's it
    1. Login_Off
      Login_Off 9 September 2020 15: 45 New
      +3
      How do government officials work (for those who did not know).
      1. When appointing, they call the leader to the carpet and ask. What do you want to do to make a breakthrough push in your department? He says what he needs.
      2. Resources are allocated (money, personnel, legislative acts, orders, etc.) are being prepared. In general, all that is needed, the main thing is to work.
      3. After 2 years they ask. So where is the breakthrough push? It is not 99%!
      4. They wait another year and if a storm rises, they take it off.
      5. Appoint a new one.
      6. See point 1.


      And those who sit for a long time are another story.
      Here are the people and contented, constant songs about breakthrough reforms and the removal of leaders. Although in fact they, as "specialists", move from one management position to another.


      Well, again, read the laws, we have them ... in general, they are very bad.
    2. Trapp1st
      Trapp1st 9 September 2020 15: 48 New
      +5
      I have not read a letter about clear-cut guarantees ..
      Guaranteed to get robbed, not read carefully.
      1. ximkim
        ximkim 9 September 2020 16: 02 New
        +4
        The fact that they are guaranteed to be robbed is understandable. But voluntary contributions for which they came up with to increase the robberies))
  • Livonetc
    Livonetc 9 September 2020 15: 58 New
    +1
    Understood nothing.
    Sakhipzadovna has been tightened up.
    The only thing is clear without options.
    More and more will be collected from the population.
    Periodically, for example, there are articles about why the price of fuel at gas stations does not go down with the decrease in the cost of oil.
    Because most of the price is the state excise tax.
    And there are many similar taxes, excise duties and taxes.
    We are convinced of the minimum tax on individuals of 13 percent.
    However, the payroll tax is another 30%.
    Plus additional taxes, fees and deductions.
    But the cache of reserve funds has reached $ 600 billion.
    And it lies on a rainy day, because "what if something" and especially "send where, so they will plunder."
    And people pay, no, not feng shui.
  • Nyrobsky
    Nyrobsky 9 September 2020 15: 58 New
    15
    The bill, which was developed by Anton Siluanov's department, even has a working title for the next pension innovation: "On a guaranteed pension product."
    Anton Siluanov and "гарантированный"pension product" are incompatible concepts. Not so long ago, he already guaranteed that after the reform, pensioners would live on a grand scale and be able to afford to travel, and as a result, pensioners could afford to buy only a calendar with views of resorts and that "retro" one.
    1. Essex62
      Essex62 9 September 2020 16: 43 New
      10
      So far, the percentage of such "travelers" is not large, but will inevitably grow. It is difficult for an elderly person to perform intensively duties at work, even if he has a lot of experience and a good specialist. This means that the hucksters will strive to kick out and replace with a more "hardy", young. The retirement age has not yet come. Dead end. Livelihood zero. Further options are possible, and the transformation of a person into a vagabond is quite possible. Even in a terrible dream, I could not imagine the possibility of such a situation 30 years ago. Genocide.
  • Van 16
    Van 16 9 September 2020 16: 02 New
    +8
    Everything is as always - Give us your money here and now, and then we will return you how much! If you live. And if we don't come up with something again.
    Fox Alice and Basilio the cat are resting.
    "Do not hide your money in banks and corners,
    Carry your money - otherwise there will be trouble. "
  • AB
    AB 9 September 2020 16: 15 New
    12
    The authors are funny. Again the Boyars offend the people, but the Tsar does not seem to know.
    "- Quiet, granny. In the war, and the pig is a gift from God. Yes, that's a crap. It turns out to be a straight merry-go-round. White came - rob, red came - rob. Where can the peasant go? ". Wait, fucking thing ... Your guys in the village are running around? Have you allowed? Me? I don't even know."
    x / f "Chapaev" (1934)
    1. Svarog
      Svarog 9 September 2020 16: 53 New
      +9
      and the Tsar does not seem to know

      Yes, the king is taken out of the blow .. but the scheme is no longer working .. nobody believes that the king is not within limits ..
      1. Ingvar 72
        Ingvar 72 10 September 2020 06: 54 New
        +6
        Quote: Svarog
        that the king is not within ..

        And the king is not real! good
  • L-39NG
    L-39NG 9 September 2020 16: 55 New
    +4
    It gets ridiculous as soon as you read the comments. As soon as the retirement age and prices for everything, all at once, and the oppositionists and abusers, give them Stalin, otherwise everything else will be "approved". And you are scolding Navalny here. Although I personally don't understand why. I, personally, he is on the side, and I think that he is not an oppositionist, but is only trying to hang out the embezzlers in plain water. It seems to be fighting for you. It is only pleasant for cows when they are milked. Maybe I'm wrong.
  • 7,62h54
    7,62h54 9 September 2020 17: 42 New
    0
    Another pearl from Nalivkin
    https://youtu.be/zFpgRAzm79Q
  • Shelest2000
    Shelest2000 9 September 2020 17: 52 New
    +7
    Well what can I say about this.

    2035 year.
    An old grandfather is sitting on the curb near the road, in front of him is a hat with a trifle and a pair of dirty notes.
    A boy walks past.
    Grandfather in a hoarse, frustrating voice:
    - Grandson ... be kind, give the old man a piece of bread for bread, otherwise I don’t have a pension, and no one takes the old man to work, I'm dying of hunger ...
    Boy:
    - And what did you, grandpa, do when your owners abolished your pension? Also sat?
    Grandfather is indignant:
    - What are you! When pensions were canceled, we all took to the streets !! Jumped, ran, shouted to the whole city !!!
    The boy looks in surprise:
    “And what did you scream?”
    Grandfather, gaining more air in the chest:
    - GOOOAAAAAAAALAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!
  • parusnik
    parusnik 9 September 2020 18: 24 New
    +8
    They will rob again ... That's right, the same LADY said that the state shouldn't do anything. Partly true, there are not so many people working for the state under the law on state and municipal employees, there are much more hired workers, the owner is about them " must "take care ... the new slave system ...
    1. mat-vey
      mat-vey 10 September 2020 12: 34 New
      +2
      Quote: parusnik
      .New slave system ...

      Ordinary capitalist ..
  • Adam Khomich
    Adam Khomich 9 September 2020 18: 56 New
    +5
    This is what surprises me! These are my personal "Information about the state of the individual personal account of the insured person" in VEB. "This Information is formed by sections containing
    relevant data, as of July 01, 2020. "The result of investing the amount of insurance contributions to finance the funded pension (temporary
    placement in the period before reflection in the special part of the individual personal account) 24 rubles. 03 kopecks
    And this is from the amount of 1 rubles. 030 kopecks for the period from December 039.
    Where, in which bank else are there such "attractive" investment conditions?
    1. Adam Khomich
      Adam Khomich 9 September 2020 19: 24 New
      +4
      Simply put, VEB, managing my funds in the amount of 1 rubles. 030 kopecks, in the period from December 039 to the present "earned for me 95 rubles 2004 kopecks.
      If I could manage my pension savings on my own, then by placing these funds at 7%, I would receive 70 rubles annually. not taking into account the capitalization of the contribution. 000 rubles and 24 thousand :-)
      1. Adam Khomich
        Adam Khomich 9 September 2020 19: 43 New
        +3
        Another joke from PF VEB :-)
        The amount of pension savings of the insured person guaranteed by the Insurance Agency
        deposits in the event of a guarantee event in relation to pension savings accounted for
        individual personal account of the insured person: 12 rubles. 26 kopecks.
        I'm lying around :-)
  • polar fox
    polar fox 9 September 2020 19: 52 New
    +1
    Stimulus
    (from Latin stimulus, lit. - a pointed stick, which was used to drive animals, doodled), an incentive to action, an incentive reason for behavior.
    something like this...
  • bandabas
    bandabas 9 September 2020 20: 49 New
    +4
    The meaning is clear. Put aside in "green", euros, yuan, in no case be carried to our banks. How long can you stumble with our state, which spits on its citizens negative !
    1. Adam Khomich
      Adam Khomich 9 September 2020 21: 53 New
      +2
      Quote: bandabas
      The meaning is clear.

      Personally, nothing is clear to me! How did VEB (bank = capitalist) manage my (!) Money so “skillfully” that I didn’t owe them :-)
      This is happiness :)
      Remember the parable of the ruble! I won't quote it to you, but I recommend that you familiarize yourself with it :-)
  • KSVK
    KSVK 9 September 2020 23: 21 New
    0
    Quote: Liam
    I am not interested in your political website battles. I am interested in numbers. And the numbers say that 99% of employers between 75+ social benefits and 150.000 in black + risk of flying will boldly choose the first option.
    Everything else is lyric.

    Obviously, you have never owned your own business.
  • faterdom
    faterdom 10 September 2020 16: 30 New
    +1
    Quote: Leader of the Redskins
    Lord, the word that came up with "pension product".
    Is the Russian language really so impoverished? Or this handout cannot be called money any more?

    "Who hands over a secondary product, he has great sex!" (V. Voinovich, "Moscow 2042")