Military Review

Navy contracts for "Army-2020"

143

"Admiral Gorshkov" - lead frigate of project 22350


The International Military and Technical Forum "Army" is a traditional platform for signing new contracts in the interests of the armed forces, incl. naval fleet... This time, at the forum, several major contracts were signed for the supply of surface ships, submarines, weapons, etc. to the Navy.

Surface contracts


The Ministry of Defense and the Severnaya Verf shipyard signed a government contract for the construction of a large number of surface ships. As a result of its implementation, the Navy will receive two frigates of project 22350, two corvettes of project 20385 and eight of project 20380. Ships of these types are already in series, and we are talking about continuing construction in order to increase their total number.

Sredne-Nevsky shipyard received an order for the construction of the next serial minesweeper pr. 12700 "Alexandrite". This will be the 12th ship of its type, and its construction will only begin in 2022, when the necessary production capacity will become available during the construction of the previous minesweepers.

In the interests of the surface forces and coastal forces, another contract has been signed for the supply of 3M55N Onyx anti-ship missiles. The number and cost of the products has not been specified. Such weapon It is used on various surface ships, as well as as part of the Bastion coastal missile system.

Underwater order


New contracts "Army-2020" affect the development of the submarine forces of the Navy. The enterprise "Admiralteyskie Verfi" received an order for the construction of diesel-electric submarines pr. 677 "Lada" and 636.3 "Varshavyanka". According to media reports, it is required to build one ship of both types.


Corvettes pr. 20350 from the KTOF

The Zvezdochka Shipbuilding Center, in accordance with the contract received, will repair and modernize the cruising nuclear submarines of Project 971 Shchuka-B from the Northern Fleet. Three of these ships are now under repair, three more are in service, and one of the boats has recently returned to service.

When signing new contracts, the Ministry of Defense did not forget about weapons for submarines. Thus, an agreement was signed to restore the technical readiness of USET-80 torpedoes. The number of items for repair, the cost of work and the contractor have not yet been specified.

Future results


The naval contracts "Army-2020" provide for the construction of new ships according to already known projects. Fundamentally new combat units have not yet been ordered. However, even in this case, the signed agreements will make it possible to carry out a noticeable renewal of the Navy with a significant increase in combat effectiveness.

To date, the Navy has received two frigates of the project 22350; they were transferred to the Northern Fleet. Another ship for the KSF was recently launched and is being completed at the wall. The next five frigates for the Black Sea and Pacific fleets are at various stages of construction. In 2021-22. we should wait for the laying of two ships under the newest contract. They will be handed over after 2025.

Thus, until 2025-27. 10 frigates of project 22350 will serve as part of three or four fleets of the Russian Navy. In the future, the appearance of the modernized ship "22350M" is expected, but all ordered units will be built according to the original design.


Minesweeper "Alexander Obukhov" type "Alexandrite"

Of greatest interest is the construction of the corvettes of the project 20380. The Navy is already operating six such ships, one is being tested and three more are under construction. All these frigates should be distributed between KTOF, KBF and KCHF. The new contract provides for the construction of eight more ships. Thus, in a few years the number of corvettes "20380" will reach 18 units, and a third of these plans have already been fulfilled.

Another order provides for the construction of two corvettes of the project 20385 - in addition to a pair of ships under construction. Two corvettes under construction will enter the Pacific Fleet in the coming years. Where the next buildings will serve was not specified.

The plans of the Navy for the construction of minesweepers pr. 12700 look very interesting. In 2016-19. the fleet received three such ships for the Baltic and Black Sea fleets. Another minesweeper is preparing to undergo tests before joining the CTOF. Four buildings are at different stages of construction. Three more were contracted earlier, and a new order appeared for Army-2020. Thus, the newly ordered minesweeper will complete the first dozen, and the construction of such a large series will cover the needs of all fleets.

So far, the Navy has only one diesel-electric submarine, project 677 - "St. Petersburg". The first serial ship is already undergoing tests, and the next two are still under construction. Before Army 2020, there were contracts for the fourth and fifth submarines, and now they have ordered the sixth. If the work does not run into problems again, then after 2025 the Navy will have six Ladas.

Navy contracts for "Army-2020"

Diesel-electric submarine "Petropavlovsk-Kamchatsky", the first "Varshavyanka" for the Pacific Fleet

The situation with pr. 636.3 looks much more optimistic. The Black Sea Fleet has six such diesel-electric submarines. The lead ship of the second series has already begun service in the Pacific Fleet. Two more "Varshavyanka" for KTOF are under construction and the next two will be laid in the foreseeable future. The submarine ordered for Army 2020 will become the 13th in the Russian fleet.

At present, the Navy has 10 atomic submarines of project 971. Four ships are registered with the Pacific Fleet, the remaining six - for the Northern. At the same time, only one and three boats remain in the ranks of the two fleets, respectively, while the others are being repaired. The new order for repairs and modernization will help restore the technical readiness of Shchuk-B of the Northern Fleet. In the future, a similar order should be expected in the interests of KTOF.

Naval adjustments


Some of the features of the new package of contracts leave questions. First of all, these are the volumes of some orders and the choice of ships for construction. Izvestia, in its publication on the results of Army-2020, citing its own sources, claims that the Ministry of Defense plans to revise the shipbuilding program and partially reduce it.

The fleet ordered eight new corvettes of the project 20380. Izvestia reminds that earlier it was planned to complete the construction of such ships and launch a full-fledged series of newer and more advanced 20386. The lead "Mercury" of this type is currently under construction, but orders for the following ships are not yet available.

The publication suggests that the project 20386 faced some problems in the development of integrated container weapons systems. Such equipment will provide significant benefits, but its creation and implementation is complex. Lack of progress in this direction and the need to continue construction could lead to the order of the older ships "20380".


Multipurpose nuclear submarine K-317 "Panther" of the Northern Fleet, project 971

The next order for diesel-electric submarines of pr. 636.3 is very interesting. In previous times, the Ministry of Defense contracted six ships at once - one series for two fleets. Now the contract was limited to just one submarine. Why this happened and for which fleet it is intended is unknown.

At the end of last year, "Admiralteyskie Verfi" announced their readiness to build in the future a new batch of boats, project 636.3 - for the Baltic Fleet. Probably, the 13th "Varshavyanka" will become the first for the KBF, and the next submarines will be ordered later.

Well-established processes


Currently, several dozen ships, boats, submarines and auxiliary vessels of all main classes are at various stages of construction. New orders are placed with enviable regularity, ships are launched and delivered to the customer. In parallel, scheduled repairs are carried out with the modernization of equipment. The latest contracts signed at the Army 2020 forum will allow these processes to continue over the next few years.

It is easy to see that the plans of the Ministry of Defense and the shipbuilding industry are regularly adjusted in one direction or another. The required number of ships, the timing of their construction, etc. are changing. However, the process of modernizing the fleet as a whole continues - and its consequences are obvious.
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Photos used:
Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation
143 comments
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  1. Uncle lee
    Uncle lee 8 September 2020 05: 30 New
    +8
    the process of modernizing the fleet as a whole continues - and its consequences are obvious.
    Let's hope !
    1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 8 September 2020 06: 03 New
      +2
      Quote: Uncle Lee
      the process of modernizing the fleet as a whole continues - and its consequences are obvious.
      Let's hope !

      God grant!
      1. bayard
        bayard 8 September 2020 09: 06 New
        12
        Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
        God grant!

        Indeed, these contracts and plans cause much more conscious satisfaction than the previous ones. The continuation of the 22350 series can only be welcomed, and it seems to me that their total number will (should be) increased not to 10, but to 12 units. That is, they should lay in the future in 2021 and in 2022, two more such frigates. It is unlikely that before 2023 a new power plant for 22350M on M90FR and M70FRU and a gearbox for them will be ready and tested. There is no rush here. And 12 22350 units are much more harmonious to distribute 4 units for each Fleet (Northern Fleet, Pacific Fleet and Black Sea Fleet), and then to disperse a series of frigate destroyers 22350M.
        The series of corvettes 20380 for the Pacific Fleet cannot but rejoice, it will balance the anti-submarine defense and coverage of the bases.
        The contract for the repair of the MAPL 971 is a long-awaited and overripe event, there is hope for the preservation of these wonderful ships in service for another 10-15 years.
        New orders for diesel-electric submarines - everything is according to plan, and thank God, no hats for new projects.
        20385 - order for two more units. So the series is still continued, although there were rumors that it would be limited to two, which means that the tests are more or less encouraging, and the opportunity to have on board the PLUR in the UKSK and more serious than the Kh-35, shock complexes, very seriously expand the capabilities of the anti-submarine corvette ... Here are just the engines ... they are rather weak, and more powerful - by 10 l / s, until they are visible on the horizon ... therefore the speed leaves much to be desired.
        And - the absence of mentions about not to the night of the mentioned "20386" cannot but rejoice.

        In general, not the usual, lately, pleasant satisfaction from the concluded contracts ...
        Let's see what happens there.
        1. Alexey RA
          Alexey RA 8 September 2020 17: 16 New
          +7
          Quote: bayard
          And 12 units of 22350 are much more harmonious to distribute 4 units for each Fleet (Northern Fleet, Pacific Fleet and Black Sea Fleet), and then disperse a series of frigate destroyers 22350M.

          Why on the Black Sea Fleet 22350? There are already 11356 there.
          22350 are primarily needed for the Northern Fleet and Pacific Fleet, because it is impossible to indefinitely repair and modernize 1155.
          1. alexmach
            alexmach 8 September 2020 17: 46 New
            +2
            They are really needed everywhere.
            1. Alexey RA
              Alexey RA 8 September 2020 18: 36 New
              +4
              Quote: alexmach
              They are really needed everywhere.

              This is yes.
              But at the Black Sea Fleet, the problem with their floating museum has already been closed - at least partially. But on high seas fleets there is not a single EM, FR, BOD and TFR established after the collapse of the USSR.
              1. alexmach
                alexmach 8 September 2020 22: 11 New
                +1
                But at the Black Sea Fleet, the problem with their floating museum has already been closed - at least partially

                Very partially, but they plan to add at least a couple of corvettes there.
                And frigates are also needed there for the same duties in the Mediterranean Sea, possibly also for trips to the Indian Ocean and the Atlantic.
                on the fleets of the open seas there is not a single EM, FR, BOD and TFR, laid down after the collapse of the USSR

                Admiral Gorshkov and Admiral Kasatonov on the Northern Fleet, actually.
          2. bayard
            bayard 8 September 2020 18: 48 New
            +1
            Quote: Alexey RA
            Why on the Black Sea Fleet 22350? There are already 11356 there.

            And the Fifth Operational Mediterranean Squadron will we be completing the ships of which Fleet?
            To drive with SF?
            Around all of Europe?
            5 op. the squadron was always equipped with Black Sea Fleet ships.
            And to drive to the Indian Ocean faster from the Mediterranean if necessary, there would be something.
            Now will be .
            Otherwise, why do we need a base in Tartus? Boats to base?
            Quote: Alexey RA
            22350 are primarily needed for the Northern Fleet and Pacific Fleet, because it is impossible to repair and modernize indefinitely 1155

            The first four frigates 22350 are on the Northern Fleet (the first two arrived).
            The second four go to the Pacific Fleet (all 4 have already been laid down).
            Well, and the third - at the Black Sea Fleet (the first pair has been contracted).
            Everything is fair. request
            And in a couple of years they should go to the tab 22350M.

            And 1155 will go for modernization, but probably not all.
            1. Imperial Technocrat
              Imperial Technocrat 9 September 2020 01: 03 New
              0
              SF is already strong enough. The next 2 22350 I would send to the Pacific Fleet, IMHO. But the MO knows better anyway
              1. bayard
                bayard 9 September 2020 09: 34 New
                0
                The first four 22350 comes with 16 CD in 2 UKSK, so for the sake of uniformity, let everyone be on the same SF.
                The second four and the following go from 24 KR in 3 UKSK and go respectively to the Pacific Fleet and the Black Sea Fleet, and the Black Sea Fleet in the last place, because strengthening the Pacific Fleet is now more important. In addition, the modernized BMC "M. Shaposhnikov" with 16 cruise missiles in 2 UKSK, as well as the arrival of 2 corvettes 20385 with 8 missile launchers on each is expected in the near future, so there will be support until new frigates arrive.
                1. Volder
                  Volder 9 September 2020 16: 11 New
                  0
                  Quote: bayard
                  The second four and the following go from 24 KR in 3 UKSK and go respectively to the Pacific Fleet and the Black Sea Fleet, and the Black Sea Fleet in the last place, because the strengthening of the Pacific Fleet is now more important.
                  Did you decide that yourself, or are there sources from the media or from the Ministry of Defense? I personally think that the frigate will go to the Black Sea Fleet in the next couple of years.
                  1. bayard
                    bayard 9 September 2020 23: 07 New
                    0
                    Quote: Volder
                    I personally think that the frigate will go to the Black Sea Fleet in the next couple of years.

                    If your thoughts are based on knowledge ... and about the "next couple of years", it only means that the third and fourth frigates of the series will go to the Black Sea Fleet.
                    Well, and so not bad and reasonable, because the frigates for the Pacific Fleet - 5, 6, 7, 8, will arrive without delay from these changes.
                    In the Northern Fleet in the near future (by 2022) it is expected that the Admiral Nakhimov will return from the modernization, and this will seriously strengthen the fleet, which has the already modernized Ustinov and two new frigates 22350.
                    The plans are being revised and adjusted, so your version may turn out to be correct, so I won't argue. I have announced preliminary plans that are not final and could well be revised.
                    And perhaps your version with the sending of the 3rd and 4th frigates of the series to the Black Sea Fleet looks more preferable in these conditions.
                    Quote: Volder
                    or are there sources from the media or from the Ministry of Defense?

                    The media are journalists whose competence is very limited. And the MO does not always voice its plans, which are so interested in the concerned public.

                    I voiced my vision of the problem, based on preliminary data, which (perhaps) are not the most recent.
                    If your vision comes true (the 3rd and 4th frigates at the Black Sea Fleet), I will only welcome such a decision. Based in Tartus, they can seriously strengthen the 5th Mediterranean Squadron.
                    1. Volder
                      Volder 11 September 2020 20: 16 New
                      0
                      Quote: bayard
                      the third and fourth frigates of the series will go to the Black Sea Fleet.
                      In the Northern Fleet in the near future (by 2022) it is expected that the Admiral Nakhimov will return from the modernization, and this will seriously strengthen the fleet, which has the already modernized Ustinov and two new frigates 22350.
                      1. It has long been generally known that the third frigate "Admiral Golovko" will go to the Northern Fleet. I was talking about the fourth frigate for the Black Sea Fleet.
                      2. The Northern Fleet in 2022-2023, in addition to "Admiral Nakhimov", will be reinforced by the third frigate 22350, as well as by the aircraft-carrying cruiser "Admiral Kuznetsov".
                      3. In the same year 2023 the cruiser "Peter the Great" and the destroyer 956 "Sarych" will be repaired, but the frigate 1155.1 "Admiral Chabanenko" will return from the modernization.
                      1. bayard
                        bayard 11 September 2020 23: 45 New
                        0
                        Quote: Volder
                        I spoke about the fourth frigate for the Black Sea Fleet.

                        One frigate in the Black Sea Fleet? But this is again an assortment, although of course it will increase. But for the Black Sea Fleet this will not be enough, perhaps they will add from the last two in the series.
                        Quote: Volder
                        3. In the same 2023, the cruiser "Peter the Great" and the destroyer 956 "Sarych" will be repaired.

                        With "Peter the Great" it was possible not to wait for "Nakhimov" if the dock was free. After strengthening the Northern Fleet with two new frigates (by that time there will be three) and having Ustinov, the old man could have been sent for repairs, well, at least in 2022, all the same, there is not much sense from him now in terms of technical condition.
                        But "Sarycha" for repairs ... but why? After all, they are already exhausted and they have nowhere to repair the power plant ... and what kind of modernization can such an old ship have?
                        Is that maintenance repair ...
                        Quote: Volder
                        but the frigate 1155.1 "Admiral Chabanenko" will return from the modernization.

                        Has he already gone for modernization?
                        I heard about the decision, but not yet about the fact.
                        And the idea of ​​upgrading 1155 is good, if you also increase the ammunition load from 2 to 3 UKSK, there will definitely be enough space. Then it will be possible to have on board 8 PLUR, 8 anti-ship missiles and 8 cruise missiles along the coast - complete harmony, together with 8 "Uranus" for other little things.
                        If we still have these 3 - 5 years, then the fleet will really cheer up a little due to new and modernized ships.
                        But these years may not be.
                        As there were none for the Russian Imperial Fleet before the RYAV.
                        Road spoon for dinner.
                      2. Volder
                        Volder 22 September 2020 09: 19 New
                        0
                        Quote: bayard
                        But "Sarycha" for repair ... but why? After all, they are already exhausted and they have nowhere to repair the power plant ... and what kind of modernization can such an old ship have?
                        The Sarych of the Northern Fleet is undergoing repairs every 10 years. Do you suggest that you write it off on pins and needles?
                      3. bayard
                        bayard 22 September 2020 11: 40 New
                        0
                        If I had to choose between the repair of Sarych and the modernization of another BOD 1155, then I would choose the latter - the combat value of the modernized Frigate is much higher than that of the maintained old boiler-turbine destroyer. Its armament is outdated and does not fully correspond to the present day. The only thing in which it is the most powerful ship of our time is its artillery - in terms of power and weight of a minute salvo, it was second only to the Iowa. So, of course, it's worth keeping such ships ready to support amphibious assault forces.
                        How long will it take to repair it?
                      4. Volder
                        Volder 22 September 2020 12: 29 New
                        0
                        Quote: bayard
                        If I choose between the repair of Sarych and the modernization of another BOD 1155, then I would choose the latter
                        The choice is not an issue. Both will be engaged.
                        Its armament is outdated and does not fully correspond to the present day.
                        Outdated compared to what? The Sarych is still able to defeat 30-35 year old American destroyers from the 30-35 year old American air defense system. And whether the torpedoes and the sonar system are outdated in relation to modern submarines of the West - we do not know this.
                        How long will it take to repair it?
                        It's easier to answer the question, is there life on Mars :)
                      5. bayard
                        bayard 22 September 2020 13: 21 New
                        0
                        God forbid me to stand up for the decommissioning of combat-ready ships. The question is that the prospects for the modernized 1155 are still higher, and the ship repair industry is limited. Hence the question.
                        "Sarychi" and from the beginning were intended for convoy service and support of landing forces, and today they are quite suitable for this function. But the armament is nevertheless already outdated - back in the 90s - the beginning of the 31s, the Americans did a good job of intercepting our Mosquitoes, for which they bought the X-1155 from us (as an imitator) and even set up production of targets based on them ... The air defense missile system is outdated, the SAC was initially inferior to the 2 with their "Polynom", torpedo armament ... 2,5 - XNUMX times inferior to enemy torpedoes in range.
                        But for the convoy service and support of the landing forces it is quite suitable.
                        Quote: Volder
                        How long will it take to repair it?
                        It's easier to answer the question, is there life on Mars :)

                        This is what confuses me, knowing the traditions of our ship repair.
                        But with the terms of repair and modernization of "Shaposhnikov" Primorye were pleasantly surprised.
                      6. Volder
                        Volder 22 September 2020 13: 44 New
                        0
                        Quote: bayard
                        the Americans did a good job of intercepting our Mosquitoes, for which they bought the X-31 from us (as a simulator) and even set up production of targets on their base.

                        Mosquito is a difficult target for the air defense of western ships. American imitators either do not maneuver or maneuver worse than the original missiles. It follows from this that the effectiveness of shooting down the Mosquitoes has not been confirmed by anything. And secondly, are you sure that Sarych will not replace these missiles with Uranus? This could very well happen. Wait and see.
                        torpedo armament ... 2 - 2,5 times inferior to enemy torpedoes in range.
                        Are you sure that Soviet torpedoes will not be replaced with newer ones? The repair will be completed by 2026-27, during this time it may be worthwhile to improve the Sarycha submarine. I understand that this is attractive for modernization. But ... what the hell is not kidding? :)

                        PS Without repair, "Sarych" will hold out until 2025 at the most. Then everything, the end.
                      7. bayard
                        bayard 22 September 2020 18: 25 New
                        0
                        Quote: Volder

                        Mosquito is a difficult target for the air defense of western ships.

                        Who would argue, everything is better than "Uranus".
                        Quote: Volder
                        And secondly, are you sure that Sarych will not replace these missiles with Uranus? This could very well happen.

                        Not the best solution, at least as a replacement for Mosquito. Is that if the "Mosquito" expiration date comes out.
                        Quote: Volder
                        Are you sure that Soviet torpedoes will not be replaced by newer ones?

                        I'm sure of this - there are few of them, and there are not enough roads for new ships. And for submarines. So the old people will definitely stay with what they were.
                        Quote: Volder
                        The repair will be completed by 2026-27, during this time it may be worthwhile to improve the Sarycha submarine. I understand that this is attractive for modernization. But ... what the hell is not kidding? :)

                        Yes, he does not need modernization - maintaining combat readiness, updating a faulty one and extending a resource. The calibers there also have nowhere to shove, except perhaps instead of the aft tower, but this will be too much, they wanted to plan this back in the Soviet Union - modernization during a medium repair. It's late now. Will serve his as it is, and at rest.
                      8. Volder
                        Volder 23 September 2020 12: 34 New
                        0
                        Quote: Volder
                        Are you sure that Soviet torpedoes will not be replaced by newer ones?
                        Quote: bayard
                        I'm sure of this - there are few of them, and there are not enough roads for new ships. And for submarines.
                        Well, in 7 years the situation may change. After all, the road will be mastered by those walking. And Russia, though slowly, is moving forward ...
                      9. bayard
                        bayard 23 September 2020 14: 41 New
                        0
                        Then already change to "Package-NK" and do not hover mosk.
                        But.
                        On Shaposhnikov, they also wanted so, but ... 300 million rubles were requested for the control system of THIS weapons. , although this weapon can be controlled even from a laptop ... And the "Packet" on the "Shaposhnikov" was forced to give up.
                        If it is the same with the North Sea "Sarych", then the result will be the same.
                        And for new HEAVY torpedoes, the lip will unfold much wider at the supplier ...
                        So hardly.
                        Or still "Packet", but it will not give an increase in range.
                      10. Volder
                        Volder 24 September 2020 08: 40 New
                        0
                        Quote: bayard
                        Or still "Packet", but it will not give an increase in range.
                        The "Package" includes anti-torpedoes, so it is better than standard torpedo launchers anyway.
  • Sofa
    Sofa 12 September 2020 16: 00 New
    -1
    22350 are more suitable for the oceanic zone and not for the Mediterranean. For the Black Sea and Mediterranean seas, 22385 with calibers are more suitable and 22380, firstly, they are cheaper than 22350, and secondly, they can solve many problems. Moreover, more than 11356 there are already three ships. And 22350 in the first place should go to the northern and pacific fleets.
    1. bayard
      bayard 12 September 2020 17: 03 New
      -1
      What is the ocean area for VI 5400 t frigates?
      Only distant, well, or if at no fish.
      And the corvettes 20380 \ 20385 are ships of the LITORAL zone (200 km. Of the economic zone from the native coast. They can go further, but there is little sense in them - seaworthiness is insufficient, the weapons are weak, the ammunition load is small. Their purpose is to protect the naval base, anti-submarine defense (if the weapon allows ) coastal zone, convoy service, support for landing.
      They are needed in the near field.
      For the distant sea - frigates.
      For the ocean - destroyers, cruisers.
      1. Sofa
        Sofa 13 September 2020 08: 14 New
        -1
        This is all clear. The question is that there is nothing besides 22350, and 20385 may well guard Tartus, if even river missile ships go there. The range of hummingbird missiles allows you to cover the entire Mediterranean on ships 20385 well, and a few Verchenyanka submarines are quite enough for this area. and since we do not build destroyers, etc., it means that 22350 should go to the ocean fleets for the time being, there is no alternative yet
        1. bayard
          bayard 13 September 2020 13: 37 New
          -1
          Quote: Couch
          This is all clear, the question is that there is nothing besides 22350,

          How is it not, and the BOD 1155?
          They are just the workhorses of the distant sea and ocean zones, and now they are being modernized with an extension of the resource.
          There are cruisers - "Ustinov" on the Northern Fleet and "Moscow" on the Black Sea Fleet.
          In 2022, the "Admiral Nakhimov" will return to service after leaving the modernization.
          Frigates 22350 are laid in 2 pieces. a year, because the issue with the power plant for them is resolved.
          And corvettes - only for BMZ, for this a contract for another 10 such ships was concluded (2 - 20385 + 8 - 20380).
          Quote: Couch
          20385 may well guard Tartus

          The first corvettes 20385 will go to the Pacific Fleet after the acceptance tests of the state commission and acceptance into service.
          Quote: Couch
          verchenyanka

          ... I don't even know what it is.
          Quote: Couch
          and since we do not build destroyers, etc., it means 22350 should go to the ocean fleets for now

          For the oceanic zone, project 22350M is being prepared, and a power plant for it.
          And the modernization of the 1155 project.
          1. Sofa
            Sofa 13 September 2020 14: 25 New
            -1
            BOD 1155 have long been outdated with their weapons, and after the modernization of Shaposhnikov, only one question remains about armament, he has weak air defense and anti-submarine defense, if we compare Shaposhnikov after modernization and Gorshkov, then Shaposhnikov's armament brings Shaposhnikov's pots. Plus Shaposhnikov only in terms of displacement. it doesn't go. let's not go Ustinov, Moscow they are one-of-a-kind and will not do anything alone. 22350 will go to the Pacific Fleet to protect the bases and the coastal zone, and 20380 there essentially does not need this ocean and there should be at least frigates 20385. there are not enough large ships and they are needed in all fleets, everyone already admits this, and such ships as karakurt and others will soon be left out of the question after the Americans withdraw from the treaty on medium-range missiles.
            1. bayard
              bayard 13 September 2020 15: 20 New
              0
              Quote: Couch
              BOD 1155 have long been outdated with their weapons and after the modernization of Shaposhnikov, only one question remains

              And what questions do you still have?
              From weapons he added:
              - 2 UKSK with 16 KR "Caliber", "Onyx", "Zircon", PLUR.
              - 2 PU x 4 = 8 anti-ship missiles X-35.
              - updated avionics, communications, encryption.
              Plus from the old one remained:
              - torpedo tubes 533 mm. caliber.
              - rocket launchers.
              - good short-range air defense missile system with sufficient ammunition.
              - two (!) helicopters with all their weapons.
              - a magnificent SAC, which modern ships can only dream of (such were only on nuclear-powered cruisers 1144 and aircraft-carrying cruisers 1143).
              Quote: Couch
              it has weak air defense and anti-submarine defense,

              Its air defense for an anti-submarine ship is quite decent, with sufficient ammunition, although short-range, but it will fight off the CD.
              PLO bad? !!!
              This is the BEST anti-submarine ship, as it is now. With its "Polynom", few can compete, two anti-submarine helicopters with their depth charges (including nuclear), torpedoes lowered by GAS, torpedo tubes (533 mm.), Rocket-propelled bombers, towed by GAS.
              Do many ships boast such an arsenal?
              1155 - already quite old ships and after modernization they will last 10 - 15 years, request you cannot trample the laws of physics, therefore, a deeper modernization is inappropriate. And you need to be very well aware that these are LARGE ANTI-SUBMERSIBLE ships, and not destroyers, cruisers or something like that. After modernization, they receive additional weapons and are transferred to the category of "frigates". This is quite enough to serve well for another 15 years and wait for new ships.
              Quote: Couch
              let's not Ustinov, Moscow they are one-of-a-kind and alone will not do anything.

              These cruisers, with proper target designation, single-handedly a whole KUG, AUG, or even a squadron to the bottom will be launched in one salvo. Moreover, Ustinov has undergone modernization, and Moscow has been renovated. There is also a Varyag at the Pacific Fleet, but it needs repair, although it remains in service.
              Quote: Couch
              20380 will go to the Pacific Fleet to protect the bases and the coastal zone, and 20385 there essentially does not need this ocean and there should be at least frigates 20350

              Well, this will somehow be dealt with without you. All corvettes of the Amur construction and two 20385 go to the Pacific Fleet. The 20385 has one UKSK in which the PLUR can be loaded, which will increase anti-submarine capabilities.
              Four frigates 22350 from the fifth to the eighth will go to the Pacific Fleet.
              You are even confused in the names of the ships and the numbers of the series, and you argue on topics of this magnitude.
            2. Sofa
              Sofa 13 September 2020 16: 36 New
              -1
              Well, without you, too, let's figure it out, let's not be clever and rude, the former Minister of Defense probably told you about the whole squadron Serdyukov !!!! one in the field is not a warrior, in this case, the sea.ura we have everything in the navy chic, this is probably about you , the fleet has huge problems and they need to be solved. Do not forget that the BOD 1155 after the modernization is already a frigate and has offensive weapons, which means it at least needs a polyment redoubt for air defense. Moscow restored its marching readiness no modernization on it was not advisable for the ship for many years ...
            3. bayard
              bayard 13 September 2020 22: 27 New
              +3
              Alexander, just to be clear:
              - a corvette, this is a ship of the near sea zone, is limited in displacement and armament, in the far sea it has nothing to do, but there may be inter-fleet transitions. Seaworthiness will not allow him. And autonomy. And the weapon will not be able to use with excitement. He has his own niche, and there are not enough such ships on the edge.
              - BOD 1155, these are old ships that will serve after repair and modernization for 10 - 15 years. Therefore, deep modernization is contraindicated / unjustified for them. And they do not need any "Polyment-Redoubt". There is simply nowhere to put it, or you will have to completely redo the body and the internal redevelopment of rooms, cable routes. Do you have any idea how much such a shipborne air defense system is worth, like "Polyment-Redut"? Purely for comparison, ONLY the Zaslon radar complex (radar complex) for new corvettes costs about 8 billion rubles (excluding missiles and launchers for them). And "Polyment" is more expensive. In general, a modern air defense system costs about a third of the total cost of a ship.
              So is it worth even thinking about installing such an expensive and complex system on an OLD SHIP?
              The question is, of course, rhetorical.
              In the past, I am an officer in the combat directorate of an air defense formation, so I have an idea about naval air defense, this is my specialization.
              And besides the economic issue, there is also a purely technical one - at the Vladivostok shipyard, there is simply no one to carry out more complex and profound modernization, thank God that they have mastered this and did not delay in time ... they even surprised me pleasantly.
              And more about the standard air defense system 1155 of the project. He is quite good for repelling the enemy's CD. They still have a low-altitude profile and are detected at a distance of 15 - 20 km. , emerging from under the radio horizon, so that the existing air defense system is quite sufficient and effective to reflect such a raid. And in general, his (BOD) task is to provide an anti-aircraft missile defense of a region or a KUG, with which he still copes well. Long-range air defense will be provided by other ships of the warrant. Initially, they generally had to go together with the "Sarich".

              And the Navy really has a lot of problems.
              And these problems are revealed in their publications by the authors of our site: Andrey from Chelyabinsk, Timokhin, Klimov and a number of others. Read their work, preferably in retrospect, and your sofa will be filled with wisdom.
            4. Sofa
              Sofa 13 September 2020 22: 38 New
              0
              I explain to you that we now have no destroyers and other large ships, believe me, I also read a lot about this and have an idea. The Pacific fleet needs surface ships such as 22350 because there is no other alternative 20385 they do not need a niche there can take 20380. I think that for the Black Sea Fleet 22350 is not yet necessary to build them on the ocean fleets is not enough, but for now it is possible for the Black Sea and Mediterranean Sea 20385 will be suitable, for now !!! and let's talk. we have ships smaller than a corvette go to Tartus, I perfectly understand what displacement the corvette has and I know its cruising range .22350 are not so old, we have much older ships in the fleet
            5. Cyril G ...
              Cyril G ... 17 September 2020 14: 42 New
              +1
              Quote: bayard
              And besides the economic issue, there is also a purely technical one - at the Vladivostok shipyard, there is simply no one to carry out more complex and profound modernization, thank God that they have mastered this and did not delay in time ... they even surprised me pleasantly.


              It was possible to get by with a simpler and no less effective modernization.
              The current one is just an expensive and ineffective result of the interaction of lobbyists.
              What would need to be done
              - install RLK Positive instead of the outdated Podkat
              - Installation of 3 Bagheers, or one Cougars.
              - Either install a new inclined Caliber PU in a complete set of 9 Calibers or Using the old Socket PU insert 2 Caliber TPK into each pipe. The total would be either 16 or 18 Calibers.
              - dismantle the AK-100 No. 2, the AK-100 No. 1 turn off the power. I don't see any point in replacing it.
              - 533 mm TA to replace PU Packet-NK. In the stern, find a place for a 2x4 Uranium anti-ship missile.
              - instead of AK-100 # 2, install 2x8 UVP SAM Redut, for SAM 9M-96, or better as in real life on Shaposhnikov 2 UVP UKSK.
              - Upgrade GAK
              - Do not touch the Dagger and AK-630 PU, upgrade the Dagger AP or new ones.


              PU PLRK Socket. Clear diameter

              PU Onyx option.

              PU Caliber, inclined.

              TPK SAM can be mounted on the ship
            6. bayard
              bayard 17 September 2020 15: 09 New
              0
              I don’t know why, but for some reason they refused from "Onyxes" in inclined PU, it would certainly be more fun with them. Yes, and they would fit in place of the "Blizzard", the number of seriously large ... And "Uranus" could be fitted on the waist, since there is still free space ...
              But Rogozin (and then he supervised the defense industry complex in the government) said the magic word "CALIBRIZATION" ... It took place.
              But, to be honest, the installation of a UVP for the "Pomegranates" on the site of the second tower was talked about in the late Soviet Union, as an option for modernization during a planned medium repair. And how about the staffing there up to 48 launchers of the KR on the new version \ modification of the 1155 project.
              But those plans have sunk into oblivion.
              In principle, the resulting upgrade option is not so bad for a ship that will serve after 15 years. Impact capabilities have appeared, alterations in the hull are minimal, the timing of such an upgrade even for the head one is acceptable, which gives hope for the modernization of most of the existing BOD 1155 for this project ... if not all ... with due diligence.
              And there is a technical and spatial opportunity on the next ships to install not two, but three UKSK, which can only be desired and welcomed.
            7. Cyril G ...
              Cyril G ... 17 September 2020 15: 51 New
              0
              Quote: bayard
              In principle, the resulting upgrade option is not so bad for a ship that will serve after this years

              Bad option. Major failures in terms of what could have been done but not done.
              - did not replace ČTA-533 with Packages ...
              - did not strengthen the air defense missiles 9М96
              - why did they change the AU, which makes no sense, from the word in general
              - because of the maniacal desire to push the UKSK, I had to pick the ship. Although it was possible to do with inclined PU ...
            8. bayard
              bayard 17 September 2020 16: 13 New
              0
              Quote: Cyril G ...
              did not strengthen the air defense with 9M96 missiles

              There were rumors (not confirmed) that such missiles could be installed on the waist, as an add. BC, but this is only if we manage to marry them with the existing RLC. And it seems that they are going to carry out this procedure with Shaposhnikov himself.
              Or maybe just rumors.
              Redesigning the radar system, and to it the air defense system, is a very expensive and difficult task.
              The ship's power plant was repaired, the avionics were updated, shock capabilities appeared, and not frail. And TA ... they will serve the old 10-15 years ... Maybe they will change on the next ships.
            9. Cyril G ...
              Cyril G ... 17 September 2020 16: 16 New
              0
              Quote: bayard
              this is a very expensive and difficult task

              So you know how Redoubt works on corvettes?
            10. bayard
              bayard 17 September 2020 16: 47 New
              0
              I know that he was married to "Fourke" for a long time, but it seemed to work out. Klimov believes that Mineral should be installed on corvettes instead of the idle and prohibitively expensive Zaslon, only it (Mineral) should be taught to direct it with radio correction ...
              If for me, it is not necessary to touch the air defense system on 1155, let them serve as they are, but with new "teeth", and let everything progressive and modern be on the new frigates.
              And about the reinforcement of the 1155's air defense by "Redoubt" a message slipped through, but without details and as a probability ... I don't know in more detail.
            11. Cyril G ...
              Cyril G ... 17 September 2020 18: 21 New
              0
              Quote: bayard
              that he was married to "Fourke" for a long time, but it seemed to work out. Klimov believes that Mineral should be installed on corvettes instead of the idle and prohibitively expensive Zaslon, only it (Mineral) should be taught to direct it with radio correction ...


              Not. You are wrong here.
              The following happened, initially, but on the floating stand, as usual, they did not check it, they tried to shoot under Fourke's control. However, it didn't work out. The tracking accuracy and information update rate on Fourka turned out to be insufficient to generate data for firing. 9M96 was simply smeared. ARGSN did not capture the target.
              In general, what saved these chronic losers was the fact that the ship was equipped with an expensive but effective Artillery Radar UO Puma. Which provided accurate tracking of 4 targets, 9M96 began to hit. But the radio correction on the Puma was never screwed. This is the truth of life.
              Now what Klimov thinks, he could not write about this. Mineral is a reconnaissance radar and control center for anti-ship missiles. He believes that the Zaslon is fundamentally not needed on corvettes. Expensive and ineffective. According to rumors, they forgot to tighten the radio correction again ...
              It is necessary to use the combination on corvettes
              - Mineral - radar for reconnaissance and detection of surface targets, including over the horizon
              - Puma - ArtRS UO, backup channel for controlling the fire of missiles
              - Positive - radar detection VTS and NTs, target tracking accuracy is acceptable for guidance 9M96. On Positia, it is again possible to implement Radio Correction.
            12. bayard
              bayard 17 September 2020 19: 11 New
              +1
              You are right, and Klimov spoke about the combination of "Mineral" and "Positive" in an article on the "Military Industrial Complex", I once served in the RTV Air Defense, so I can get confused about the naval topic.
              In any case, the bagpipes with the "Zaslon" must be finished - for corvettes it is redundant (even if it is brought to mind) in terms of characteristics and is overpriced. And corvettes should be ordered according to the 20385 project, but with an adequate radar - both in price and in terms of capabilities. Then the price of the ship will be acceptable, the capabilities of the radar are sufficient, and the presence of the UKSK will allow you to effectively fight the enemy submarine.

              And with 1155, there is no need to be too clever - we have worked out this version of modernization, so drive as many ships as possible through such an upgrade, put on stream so that one only leaves the dock, and the next one is pulled into it, and with the previous one they continued to work at the wall. So that, if possible, all 8 BDKs could be so modernized. If the first - the head large landing craft was modernized for 3,5 years, then the next ones can be faster. So there is a fundamental possibility for this. Moreover, at two shipyards.
  • Sofa
    Sofa 13 September 2020 22: 27 New
    -1
    You are confused and you don’t know what you’re talking about, you want to say that you understand a lot in this ??? while I see you are just being clever, but in the case of arguments 0 you need to be able to respect the interlocutor. good air defense. You yourself say BODs that are being modernized for frigates from these ships with competent modernization, good destroyers can turn out.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Imperial Technocrat
    Imperial Technocrat 9 September 2020 01: 02 New
    +1
    Strengthen the Mediterranean. Black Sea Fleet - consider that not the Black Sea Fleet, but the double fleet of the Black Sea Fleet-SrF
  • novel66
    novel66 8 September 2020 07: 59 New
    +4
    frigate - not rich in load
    corvette - put on a stick ...
    hi Volodya hi
    1. Uncle lee
      Uncle lee 8 September 2020 09: 36 New
      +5
      Submarine - vodka in tanks,
      The destroyer is a present for the "friend"
      Battleship is a big boozer,
      And the aircraft carrier has no rhyme at all and is so cool!
      Roma hi
      1. novel66
        novel66 8 September 2020 10: 38 New
        +4
        and on a boat they sail to some mother
        and on a helicopter carrier he sneaks through everyone
        1. bayard
          bayard 8 September 2020 18: 52 New
          0
          You don't like universal amphibious ships.
          1. novel66
            novel66 8 September 2020 20: 17 New
            0
            I do not hide
  • RusKosTen
    RusKosTen 8 September 2020 06: 00 New
    +6
    It would be nice to predict what will remain in the fleets by 2025-2027, when the Soviet unmodernized will finally stand up to the wall, and what is now being laid down and modernized will be transferred to the fleet. What our fleets will be capable of, or not capable of.

    Usually a lot of official statements are made on "Armies", but after 2020 questions remain open for me:
    1. What is the fate of Peter the Great. Will Peter be modernized on the model of Nakhimov? (In my opinion, it is logical).
    2. What is the deadline for the delivery of Kuznetsov's fleet, and in what form. So far, only rumors, and official reports are constantly refuted, only confused.
    3. Well, this moment is not clear:
    The plans of the Navy for the construction of minesweepers pr. 12700 look very interesting. In 2016-19. the fleet received three such ships for the Baltic and Black Sea fleets. Another minesweeper is preparing to undergo tests before joining the CTOF. Four buildings are at different stages of construction. Three more were contracted earlier, and a new order appeared for "Army-2020". Thus, the recently ordered minesweeper will complete the first dozen, and the construction of such a large series will cover the needs of all fleets.

    Are 12 minesweepers enough for all fleets?
    1. RusKosTen
      RusKosTen 8 September 2020 06: 37 New
      +3
      4. Well, about the nuclear submarine of Project 949A - will they still be armed with calibers / onyxes or have they been repaired and that's it? The ships will still serve after the restoration of readiness, but the P-700 is no longer as formidable as before.
      1. CSKA
        CSKA 8 September 2020 12: 28 New
        0
        Quote: RusKosTen
        Well, for the nuclear submarine of Project 949A - will they still be armed with calibers / onyxes or have they been repaired and that's it?

        Some have already been rearmed. Most likely the rest will be rearmed.
        1. Beregovic_1
          Beregovic_1 8 September 2020 21: 30 New
          0
          Not a single Project 949 boat on the Onyx was re-equipped. They expected that the first would be "Opel", then "Omsk - Tomsk" - all stayed with "Granites". Not a single launch from Onyx loaves was covered in the media.
          1. CSKA
            CSKA 9 September 2020 11: 07 New
            0
            Quote: Beregovyhok_1
            Not a single Project 949 boat on the Onyx was re-equipped. They expected that the first would be "Opel", then "Omsk - Tomsk" - all stayed with "Granites".

            According to the Zvezda TV channel, the Eagle has been rearmed on Caliber.
            July 12, 2017 K-150 "Tomsk" from a submerged position in the Sea of ​​Okhotsk successfully launched the cruise missile "Caliber" (3M14K) at a training coastal target at the Kura training ground in the Kamchatka Territory.
            October 9, 2017 K-150 "Tomsk" from a submerged position in the Sea of ​​Okhotsk during a joint command and staff training with the flagship of the Pacific Fleet Guards missile cruiser "Varyag", successfully fired a cruise missile "Caliber" (3M54K1) at a surface target ...
            1. Beregovic_1
              Beregovic_1 9 September 2020 13: 37 New
              0
              3m14 and 3m55 are fired from a torpedo tube. There is no data on the launch of the p-800 (3m55) from the Batons. That is, the modernization of the main armament was not carried out. They just added the option of firing "Caliber" from torpedo tubes.
              1. rudolff
                rudolff 9 September 2020 14: 29 New
                +1
                Beregovichok_1, the option to fire with Calibers was not added to this project. And do not confuse 3M54 with 3M55. Onyx will definitely not fit into TA.
                1. Beregovic_1
                  Beregovic_1 9 September 2020 18: 26 New
                  0
                  That's what I'm talking about. There is no data on firing Onyxes (3m55) from Batons. They fired only with Calibers (3m14 and 3m54), which can be fired from a TA. When I see (read about it) the launch of 3M55 from the 949 project, I will believe in the modernization of the missile system. So far, I repeat, there have been no reports of rearmament of the Orel and Tomsk in normal sources. There were wishes in the Military-Industrial Courier and fakes in Zvezda and Izvestia. Pysy: On 3m 55 in the previous post, my typo. I understand the difference.
                  1. rudolff
                    rudolff 9 September 2020 18: 31 New
                    0
                    Unfortunately, the calibers were not fired either. The complex is not integrated into the ship.
                    1. Beregovic_1
                      Beregovic_1 9 September 2020 21: 32 New
                      0
                      Here I appealed to Comrade CSKA, which claimed that
                      July 12, 2017 K-150 "Tomsk" from a submerged position in the Sea of ​​Okhotsk successfully launched the cruise missile "Caliber" (3M14K) at a training coastal target at the Kura training ground in the Kamchatka Territory.
                      October 9, 2017 K-150 "Tomsk" from a submerged position in the Sea of ​​Okhotsk during a joint command and staff training with the flagship of the Pacific Fleet Guards missile cruiser "Varyag", successfully fired a cruise missile "Caliber" (3M54K1) at a surface target ...
                      He wrote so confidently that I decided that he was either an eyewitness or knew for sure from reliable sources. Hence my assumption that they fired from a TA. Because I EXACTLY know that Granite was not changed for Onyx.
                      1. CSKA
                        CSKA 10 September 2020 15: 51 New
                        0
                        Quote: Beregovyhok_1
                        Because I EXACTLY know that Granite was not changed for Onyx.

                        Where does this EXACT information come from?
                      2. Beregovic_1
                        Beregovic_1 10 September 2020 20: 54 New
                        0
                        On the state procurement site there were no orders for TPK "Onyx" for "Eagle" and "Tomsk". A complete list of equipment and weapons for "Nakhimov", "Shaposhnikov", "Chabanenko" has been in the network for a long time. There is also a project 949, but not a word about the p-800 complex. And if they were not bought, then they are not there.
            2. CSKA
              CSKA 9 September 2020 14: 54 New
              0
              Quote: Beregovyhok_1
              3m14 and 3m55 are fired from a torpedo tube.

              Who told you this? And where did you get the idea that you can shoot Caliber from the Antaeus torpedo tube?
              Quote: Beregovyhok_1
              There is no data on the launch of the p-800 (3m55) from the Batons.

              Caliber and Onyx can be launched from the same UKSK.
              Quote: Beregovyhok_1
              That is, the modernization of the main armament was not carried out. They just added the option of firing "Caliber" from torpedo tubes.

              Again, where did you read this?
          2. rudolff
            rudolff 9 September 2020 13: 58 New
            +2
            CSKA, in the 17th year and in July and October, Tomsk shot with regular Granite, not Caliber. If you're looking at Wikipedia, double-check.
            1. CSKA
              CSKA 9 September 2020 14: 55 New
              0
              Quote: rudolff
              CSKA, in the 17th year and in July and October, Tomsk shot with regular Granite, not Caliber. If you're looking at Wikipedia, double-check.

              Rechecked. They were shooting with calibers. Go to Wikipedia and read it yourself.
              1. rudolff
                rudolff 9 September 2020 15: 10 New
                +2
                I didn't mean to double-check myself, but the information received from Wiki. I know what is written there. But the launches were just Granites. Just look elsewhere.
                1. CSKA
                  CSKA 10 September 2020 12: 01 New
                  0
                  Quote: rudolff
                  But the launches were just Granites. Just look elsewhere.

                  So I looked at different sources. Throw off the link to yours.
          3. Bashkirkhan
            Bashkirkhan 9 September 2020 19: 04 New
            +1
            Quote: CSKA

            According to the Zvezda TV channel, the Eagle has been rearmed on Caliber.
            July 12, 2017 K-150 "Tomsk" from a submerged position in the Sea of ​​Okhotsk successfully launched the cruise missile "Caliber" (3M14K) at a training coastal target at the Kura training ground in the Kamchatka Territory.
            October 9, 2017 K-150 "Tomsk" from a submerged position in the Sea of ​​Okhotsk during a joint command and staff training with the flagship of the Pacific Fleet Guards missile cruiser "Varyag", successfully fired a cruise missile "Caliber" (3M54K1) at a surface target ...

            This is all lies and provocation. None of the 949A fired a Caliber cruise missile. Garbage sources like Wikipedia and degenerate journalists drive outright disinformation. "Caliber" from 949a shine only "Irkutsk" and possibly "Chelyabinsk". That's all, the rest of the loaves will serve up with "Granites" and go for disposal.
            1. CSKA
              CSKA 10 September 2020 12: 07 New
              0
              Quote: Bashkirkhan
              This is all lies and provocation.

              )))))) Is this all a lie because you said so? Who are you? Do designers, captains of the nuclear submarine and the Minister of Defense report to you?
    2. Alex968m
      Alex968m 8 September 2020 15: 51 New
      -2
      Now the DOZON caliber is definitely the century before last. Any air defense is easily knocked down. Granite is definitely better in all respects.
      1. RusKosTen
        RusKosTen 8 September 2020 15: 53 New
        0
        So instead of the caliber, you can put onyx and promising zircon. The launchers are the same.
      2. Alexey RA
        Alexey RA 8 September 2020 17: 13 New
        +1
        Quote: Alex968m
        Now the DOZON caliber is definitely the century before last. Any air defense is easily knocked down. Granite is definitely better in all respects.

        Except for one thing: "granites" are no longer produced.
        In addition, the "caliber" launchers allow the placement of supersonic "onyxes" in them.
        1. Beregovic_1
          Beregovic_1 9 September 2020 13: 46 New
          0
          Not all Caliber launchers fire Onyxes. The diameter is different. 3m14 and 3m54 fire, including from the TA. Or from UKSK. As regards the 949 project, it was proposed to insert 3 Onyx TPKs into each Granita TPK without complicated alterations, bringing the ammunition load to 72 missiles. But not a single NORMAL source (even the wiki doubts) has not confirmed such work on the 949 project (Oryol and Tomsk). with respect.
  • Cyril G ...
    Cyril G ... 8 September 2020 08: 31 New
    +2
    Quote: RusKosTen
    ... Will Peter be modernized on the model of Nakhimov? (In my opinion, it is logical).

    No, they will not do. Most likely to be limited to VTG + small modern.
    Quote: RusKosTen
    Are 12 minesweepers enough for all fleets?

    Mine-sweeping ships need 45-50 pieces
  • g1v2
    g1v2 8 September 2020 09: 18 New
    +4
    1. They will probably modernize. But on the model of Nakhimov or not, most likely no one knows yet.
    2. Terms can be named any, but the progress of work is difficult to predict. For example, during the repair process, some part will be with severe wear. As a result, it will have to be changed, and given that we do not build such ships in batches, we will have to produce it in a piece version with all the dates shifted to the right. Well, don't forget. that then there will be more tests. How much they will take, too, no one will say. I would count on 23 years. If they can earlier, there will be a surprise. But it can drag on if they suddenly decide to change something additionally.
    3. No. This is the minimum required. But the admirals spoke several times about 40 minesweepers. That's enough to replace all of our old minesweepers. Another thing is that Alexandrites will be built for many years in series. The current episode is actually the second. The first was Obukhov (with French boats). After 12 minesweepers, they will probably order more, quite possibly with changes. However, the last ordered minesweeper will be laid down only in 22. What is the point of concluding a contract in advance if bookmarks have already been scheduled 2 years in advance?
  • Romario_Argo
    Romario_Argo 8 September 2020 18: 09 New
    0
    Are 12 minesweepers enough for all fleets?

    Petropavlovsk-Kamchatsky, Fokino, SSK Zvezda (shipyard), Vladivostok - at Pacific Fleet - 4
    Sevastopol, Novorossiysk - at the Black Sea Fleet - 2
    Baltiysk, Kronstadt, Vyborg - at BF - 3
    Vidyaevo, Gadzhievo, Polyarny, Severomorsk, Severodvinsk (shipyard) - SF - 5
    Only 12 naval bases and 2 large shipyards - and 12 minesweepers
    at least enough
    but ideally the fleet's need will be covered by 32 to 36 minesweepers
  • bayard
    bayard 8 September 2020 19: 03 New
    +1
    Quote: RusKosTen
    1. What is the fate of Peter the Great. Will Peter be modernized on the model of Nakhimov? (In my opinion, it is logical).

    Peter most likely will not be modernized - it takes a long time, it is expensive, and he has absolutely nothing left of residual resources. It will undergo a medium repair (which it was waiting for), and maybe a major one, they will update the equipment, maybe a little air defense and - on the way, to serve. He's so scary.
    And instead of modernization, and for the same money, it is better to build four new 22350M. There will definitely be more benefits.
    Quote: RusKosTen
    2. What is the deadline for the delivery of Kuznetsov's fleet, and in what form.

    This is not known to science, because everything is limited to the construction of a new dock, for which piles are driven into a basalt slab. Round the clock.
    Quote: RusKosTen
    Are 12 minesweepers enough for all fleets?

    Most likely it was meant to complete the naval base, and probably this is the minimum required amount.
    1. Beregovic_1
      Beregovic_1 9 September 2020 13: 58 New
      0
      instead of modernization, but for the same money, it is better to build four new 22350M. There will definitely be more benefits.
      it won't work like that. It's not about money, it's about engines. There are no gearboxes for the 20350m. There are no slipways at Severnaya Verf. Other enterprises do not build 22350 because of a strange agreement with the RF Ministry of Defense on the exclusive right of this enterprise to build this project. Therefore, there is still a restriction on slipways at the Severnaya Verf, of which there are only 8. Someone warmed up their pocket well for such a lobby. The bottom line: for this money, either the modernization of "Peter the Great" or to build industrial projects and abandon the ocean zone. It is not realistic to put them on 22350m
      1. bayard
        bayard 9 September 2020 22: 47 New
        0
        Have you described a criminal conspiracy between the military-industrial complex and the Ministry of Defense, and do you think it's better this way?
        And instead of expanding construction sites for 22350M (say, in Zaliv and Kaliningrad), modernize Peter the Great (according to malicious rumors, the modernization of Nakhimov has already reached 200 billion rubles)?
        At the end of the day, I didn't mean an increase in the number of new bookmarks. I meant that the overhaul of "Petr" without modernization will cost about 50 billion, and after it is out of repair, the remaining resource will be enough for 15 years.
        But for 200 billion rubles. it is possible to build 4 (four) new frigate destroyers 22350M, with "Polyment-Redoubts" and 48 cruise missiles each in UKSK.
        And with a resource for 40 years.
        So which is better?
        Even if all these 22350Ms will be built ONLY at Severnaya Verf, with a tab of 2 pcs. in year ?
        Actually, for myself, I thought that 2 buildings 22350 or 22350M would be laid a year.
        Another thing is that their construction cycle due to serial production will be reduced, bringing it from 5 to 4 years.
        Having four frigate destroyers 22350M in the ocean zone is much better than having one nuclear 1144 or (save Ahura Mazda) one nuclear destroyer of the "Leader" class.
        I am for seriality, uniformity, unification and numbers.
        1. Beregovic_1
          Beregovic_1 10 September 2020 14: 01 New
          0
          I live in the real world. And in this world of ours there is this treaty and there are no engines. The fact that 4 is better than 1 is understandable. But now the situation is such that either "Peter the Great" is in the oceanic zone, or frigates in the far sea. There are no destroyers and won't be for a long time.
          1. bayard
            bayard 10 September 2020 16: 10 New
            0
            So after all, the usual (even if overhaul) repairs "Peter" will be completed much faster, if without modernization. And therefore, it will return to service faster. And there the engines for the new ships will already go on schedule, next year I will test the first domestic power plant on the move. Then we will find out whether we have our own engines or not.
            Alas, there is no such confidence before successful sea trials.
            1. Beregovic_1
              Beregovic_1 10 September 2020 20: 48 New
              0
              Would you say yes ... I think that the first 22350m will be transferred to the fleet no earlier than 2030. It's minimum. My opinion is based on the construction of head 22350, 20380. Because our naval commanders, having listened to the USC lobbyists, besides the new power plant, and instead of simply re-equipping the ship, they will want a new SAC, new radars, a new BIUS, a naval "Coalition", drones, a helicopter , s-400, etc. And this is new R&D, R&D, budget development, new contractors, subcontractors, time shifting to the right, etc. Perhaps even 12-13 years old ... By the way, all this awaits the UDC too. Because the profit of the industry is more important than the combat readiness of the fleet, and you can't get money on a series of ships.
              1. bayard
                bayard 11 September 2020 07: 28 New
                0
                Quote: Beregovyhok_1
                ... I think that the first 22350m will be transferred to the fleet no earlier than 2030.

                It all depends on the readiness of the power plant and the readiness of the industry to produce such power plant in series. Moreover, in the power plant, the main problem is not in the turbines, but in the travel gearboxes. But if you get a gearbox for 22350 - a turbo-diesel pair, then it will be much easier with the next gearbox, because it is easier to marry two turbines - their operating speeds are close. So we are waiting for the running gear next year (initially it was calculated at the end of this year).
                Quote: Beregovyhok_1
                Because our naval commanders, having listened to the USC lobbyists, besides the new power plant, and instead of simply re-equipping the ship, they will want a new SAC, new radars, a new BIUS, a naval "Coalition", drones, a helicopter, s-400, etc. And this is new R&D, R&D,

                22350M, as far as I know, is still just the same ship with increased ammunition and possibly (it would be good) with two helicopters in the hangar. Anything additional or new to shove into a ship with VI 7000 - 8000 tons is stupidity, it is good enough. And if such attempts are made, then this is a CRIME.
                And if the industry gets its hands on the current 22350 series, then 22350M will build at almost the same pace - 4-5 years from laying to commission. As an example - the construction of frigates 11356 for the Black Sea Fleet, the construction period is 3,5 years.
                This is the result of normal serial production.
                Quote: Beregovyhok_1
                By the way, all this awaits UDC too.

                With them, everything is more complicated and foggy. They don't even have a project.
                Even a sketch.
                Otherwise, SUCH skewers on the stand would not be smeared when laying.
                Yes, and the embedded sections are in doubt - they do not look like sections for ships of this class, not only I noticed this.
                So what about the UDC - pitchforks on the water in the fog ...
                But I really want to be wrong.
                1. Nemchinov Vl
                  Nemchinov Vl 17 September 2020 01: 56 New
                  0
                  Quote: bayard
                  And if the industry gets its hands on the current 22350 series, then the 22350M will build at almost the same pace - 4-5 years from laying to delivery.
                  Dear Vitaly, so far, what I observe is that frigates cannot get out of the 10-year schedule ?! and you about 4-5 years old ?! boldly (!) ..... recourse request
                  1. bayard
                    bayard 17 September 2020 09: 48 New
                    0
                    hi
                    Quote: Vl Nemchinov
                    Well, for now, what I see is that with frigates from the 10-year schedule it is impossible to get out ?! and you mean 4-5 years old?

                    Well, for the sake of justice, the Black Sea series 11356 are also frigates, and they have 3,5 years from bookmark to delivery. And they had no problems with the supply of power plants and air defense systems.
                    And for the real 22350, the construction time under normal conditions should be counted from No. 5, the construction of which will not be affected by the presence of the power plant. I spoke specifically about normal work with well-functioning cooperation, without force majeure in the supply of key components.
                    So 4 - 5 years for a serial frigate, this is not any fantasy, to which 11356 witnesses. But only successful tests of the first domestic gearbox on the first ship with a domestic power plant will make all this possible.
                    1. Nemchinov Vl
                      Nemchinov Vl 17 September 2020 21: 16 New
                      +1
                      Quote: bayard
                      ... under normal conditions the construction time should be counted from No. 5 ...
                      Quote: bayard
                      ... So 4 - 5 years for a serial frigate is not a fantasy ...
                      ?!... But, with all my sympathy for you, uv. Vitaly hi , I want to say - then let's wait for the fifth, and (I'm afraid to even speak) let's look at the construction time (speed) ... (!)
                      Quote: bayard
                      .... this is not any fantasy, to which 11356 witnesses ...
                      and do not mix with them (22350) frigates 11356 (!)... It's not fair (!).... There is a power plant from Nikolaev, - that is, the remnants of cooperation ties of the great USSR (and a long-worked project of the GEM from "Burevestniki", with their own modernizations...) helped ....!!! Now all of this is missing, as well as objective data indicating that the cooperation link Saturn (Rybinsk) - and Zvezda-Reductor (St. Petersburg), will just as reliably and rhythmically deliver the power plant to the mountain as Zarya- Mashproekt "(Nikolaev), created in the USSR, and accumulating there its experience, technology, production culture, etc. decades (!)... I would like to believe in this as you do, but alas ... So far, no obvious prerequisites are visible ... request let's be realistic (!), you won't have to be painfully disappointed later ... winked
                    2. bayard
                      bayard 17 September 2020 22: 56 New
                      +1
                      That's why I said
                      Quote: bayard
                      But only successful tests of the first domestic gearbox on the first ship with a domestic power plant will make all this possible.

                      That is, when the tests of the domestic power plant begin and successfully end, only then can one count on the rhythmic work of shipbuilders. In the meantime, I have similar doubts.
                      ... Whatever the rake teaches
                      But the heart believes in miracles ...
                      If it works out with the power plant, then the pace of construction will be quite adequate.
                      But after all, they began to lay two pieces a year, which means that they hope there too.
                      For a MIRACLE.
                    3. Nemchinov Vl
                      Nemchinov Vl 18 September 2020 00: 20 New
                      +1
                      Quote: bayard
                      ... But after all, they began to lay two pieces a year ...
                      sorry BUT ...(!)... they and the "Karakurt" imposed more than a dozen at once ... although they do not understand that the speed of creation of the power plant for them will be 1-1,5 /from strength 2/ set per year (!)... so that, alas, this is not an indicator (!). hi I beg your pardon, but the point is not that I am a pessimist (although I prefer the word - realist) ... yes
                    4. bayard
                      bayard 18 September 2020 01: 59 New
                      0
                      So I am about the same. At the beginning of the year, Aristarkh Ludwigovich wrote that the start of testing the power plant on the move is possible even at the end of this year ... But later a message came that it was still next year, although it seemed like in the first half.
                      Now I WAIT. yes
                      For ONLY after that you can make real plans and schedules. request
                      Well, and the fact that so many "Karakurt" were stuck without engines ... so this hunger will not last forever, they promise to soon issue in sufficient quantities, they are expanding production there ... fellow ... and the boats are already ready - for motorization. yes
                      And a full herd immediately into action! bully
                      There, after all, diesel corvettes are also needed in considerable quantities - they want to get 10 new pieces in 8 years from only one shipyard. So the industry should also be interested in this. And perhaps Shoigu knows something, since he immediately ordered such a corvette herd.
                    5. Nemchinov Vl
                      Nemchinov Vl 18 September 2020 23: 46 New
                      0
                      Quote: bayard
                      There, after all, diesel corvettes are needed in large quantities - they want to get 10 new pieces in 8 years
                      this is not at all there (!) ... On the corvettes of the power plant from Kolomna diesel engines and not "Zvezdovskiy" (!), you made a little mistake ... hi
  • Sofa
    Sofa 13 September 2020 12: 28 New
    0
    BOD 1155 needs to be modernized, but not like Shapashnikov, there is a lot of incomprehensible and imperfections on it, the ship turned out to be weak in air defense, to put it mildly, and in anti-submarine defense such ships can be used to make a good destroyer; the tonage allows only a competent armament project
  • Leha667
    Leha667 8 September 2020 07: 30 New
    +3
    Uset-80 sad
    The torpedo has not met the requirements for a very long time.
    However, its readiness is still being restored ... Why ???
    1. novel66
      novel66 8 September 2020 08: 14 New
      +1
      Are there already others?
      1. timokhin-aa
        timokhin-aa 11 September 2020 18: 15 New
        0
        There are good ones. And if they are provided with telecontrol, then we can say that they are good.
    2. g1v2
      g1v2 8 September 2020 09: 24 New
      +6
      Because there are many of them. request And they will have to fight with them. You can't build a lot of new torpedoes like a case at once. Will have to fight with what is in the warehouses. Again outdated compared to newer designs. There are not many such opponents for the war with which they are outdated. And it is far from a fact that they will be ineffective even with such opponents. The fleets, like the armies of even the leading military powers, do not consist of only new military fashion.
      1. Leha667
        Leha667 8 September 2020 09: 56 New
        +4
        Let's fight not with what is better, but with what is a lot.
        There are only a few dozen boats firing the USET-80. Ammunition rarely exceeds 20 units. Let's add practical torpedoes and a little more error.
        A total of 1000 torpedoes will more than cover the requirements of the fleet. Sense of spending money and power of enterprises on outdated torpedoes ???
        The cost of saving on torpedoes is the death of the boat and crew.
        The cost of a boat and training a line crew is enormous compared to the cost of torpedoes. The lives of people are generally priceless.
        1. Vadim237
          Vadim237 8 September 2020 15: 55 New
          -5
          Since in the next 15 - 20 years our submarines will not torpedo anyone - and these torpedoes will descend into the BC.
          1. Leha667
            Leha667 8 September 2020 16: 21 New
            +1
            Well yes. And since we are not going to launch ICBMs anywhere in the near future, UHF will come down instead.
          2. timokhin-aa
            timokhin-aa 11 September 2020 18: 16 New
            +1
            Since in the next 15 to 20 years our submarines will not torpedo anyone


            And if they do? What do you say then?
      2. timokhin-aa
        timokhin-aa 11 September 2020 18: 14 New
        +1
        And nothing, that they do not hit anyone? That even an adversary of the level of Pakistan will be able to shoot our Ash and Pike because of what kind of torpedoes we have, SPGD and because of the absence of anti-torpedoes in the BC?

        How to fight something? Would you go on the attack with a wooden dummy machine gun?
    3. timokhin-aa
      timokhin-aa 8 September 2020 11: 08 New
      10
      Then, that the right people are sitting on financing this firewood.
      VERY correct.

      If only they, under the guise of HTG, did not smuggle lithium-ion batteries there. They were already, without any adoption, shoved into the SF torpedoes and gave them to the BC, but then Losharik happened, and these torpedoes quickly disappeared. But the activity of pushing new batteries has not decreased, and they want to push them exactly so that they do not pass all the required tests - because they will not pass them.
      1. unknown
        unknown 11 September 2020 16: 57 New
        0
        A question about the analogue of "Packet-NK".
        On small anti-submarine ships of project 11451, 2 * 4 224 mm torpedo tubes were installed.
        That is, we already had small-caliber torpedo tubes and torpedoes for them?
        Did they suffer the same fate as the Medvedka PLUR?
        And they were installed, in fact, on the ships of the same project: 1141 and its serial development 11451.
        1. timokhin-aa
          timokhin-aa 11 September 2020 18: 08 New
          0
          Like that, only 400 mm.
          Yes, there were small TA and small torpedoes for them.
          And on the submarine there were also 400-mm TA, in Ryazan they are still there. Only no torpedoes.
          No longer.
  • Doccor18
    Doccor18 8 September 2020 07: 49 New
    +1
    I did not have time to rejoice, as
    that the Ministry of Defense plans to revise the shipbuilding program and partially reduce it ..

    Hello please ...
    It is easy to see that the plans of the Ministry of Defense and the shipbuilding industry are regularly adjusted in one direction or another. Are changing ...

    And this is awful. To this day, there is no clear understanding of what needs to be built and for what purposes. There is no long term maritime strategy.
    1. RusKosTen
      RusKosTen 8 September 2020 08: 10 New
      -1
      I think there is a strategy. The possibilities of its implementation are constantly changing ...
      1. novel66
        novel66 8 September 2020 08: 13 New
        +2
        or think there is .. lol
        1. Voyager
          Voyager 8 September 2020 12: 45 New
          -3
          Whether the collective superintelligence of the regulars of the Military Review!
          Let him solve issues in the Ministry of Defense - they would have flown on Star Destroyers for a long time.
          1. novel66
            novel66 8 September 2020 12: 54 New
            0
            here all are individualists
    2. Beregovic_1
      Beregovic_1 8 September 2020 21: 42 New
      0
      But finally they began to build ships in series, without being distracted by the wunderwafe. Recent orders are aimed at updating the ship's composition. As if they read our forum in the main command ...
  • Vladimir1155
    Vladimir1155 8 September 2020 08: 09 New
    +3
    really 12 minesweepers per country who considers it sufficient? is it enough to have one sapper per land division too?
    1. novel66
      novel66 8 September 2020 08: 13 New
      0
      until you are at war - quite. although minesweepers are needed in peacetime, how many more war mines are dangling
      1. Alexey RA
        Alexey RA 8 September 2020 09: 25 New
        +2
        Quote: novel xnumx
        until you are at war - quite.

        Yeah ... one is in Polyarny, the other is in Gadzhievo, the third is under repair. smile
  • bars1
    bars1 8 September 2020 11: 25 New
    +2
    Quote: bayard
    The series of corvettes 20380 for the Pacific Fleet cannot but rejoice, it will balance the anti-submarine defense and coverage of the bases.

    If you believe Timokhin-Klimov, then 20380 in its current form as an anti-submarine agent is crap and a delicacy for Japanese and American submarines
    1. Arkon
      Arkon 8 September 2020 13: 54 New
      -3
      As I understand it, it depends on the tactics of the application. This corvette is not going to walk in the ocean. And our enemy submarines still have to approach our bases. Apparently, it is planned to use these corvettes as strike units. With good air defense. And to provide underwater safety by other means.
      1. Alexey RA
        Alexey RA 8 September 2020 14: 26 New
        +2
        Quote: Arkon
        Apparently, it is planned to use these corvettes as strike units. With good air defense. And to provide underwater safety by other means.

        And it already happened:
        Glavkomat does not see prospects in the creation of ships, previously designated as "Corvette IAD". One of the main tasks of the OVR is to ensure the protection and defense of the naval forces in the areas of naval bases and in the adjacent territories. This task is now carried out by onshore observation means, stationary hydroacoustic stations and coastal missile-artillery troops, armed with anti-ship missiles of different ranges, as well as anti-submarine and strike aircraft.
        © Navy Commander Chirkov. 2014
        Result? After 6 years, the Navy is feverishly trying to modernize the ancient Albatrosses in order to provide the OVR with at least some PLO surface ships. For without them, as it turned out, it is impossible to provide PLO. Chirkov's Manilovism remained on paper.
        1. Arkon
          Arkon 8 September 2020 14: 48 New
          0
          Well, it has nothing to do with 20380. I understand that by installing the UKSK on it (if installed) and enhancing the air defense of the new radar, they have already abandoned the use of 20380 for the OVR. Therefore, let them implement all the shock capabilities, and with OVR - a separate issue.
        2. Volder
          Volder 9 September 2020 17: 30 New
          +1
          Quote: Alexey RA
          After 6 years, the Navy is feverishly trying to modernize the ancient Albatrosses in order to provide the OVR with at least some PLO surface ships. For without them, as it turned out, it is impossible to provide PLO.
          1. OVR is NOT only anti-submarine defense. 2. Based on paragraph 1, filling the fleets with corvettes 20380/85 and patrolmen 22160 will close the problem of OVR. In 10 years - for sure. Well, the Albatrosses should last 10 years. 3. Speaking about PLO, some forget about PLO aircraft and stationary (coastal) hydroacoustic stations.
          1. Alexey RA
            Alexey RA 9 September 2020 18: 13 New
            +1
            Quote: Volder
            1. OVR is NOT only anti-submarine defense.

            And the mine is even worse there. All fleets - 4 TSCs with systems lagging a generation behind "potential adversaries".
            Quote: Volder
            2. Based on paragraph 1, filling the fleets with corvettes 20380/85 and patrolmen 22160 will close the problem of OVR. In 10 years - for sure.

            How does Project 22160, which does not have a GAS, TA, SAM, even a small radius and ZAK, will close the problem of OVR? The OVR ship must be able to fight off at least a single anti-ship missile.
            On anti-submarine capabilities 22160 corresponds to PSKR "Herluf Bidstrup" - "helicopter laying barge".
            Quote: Volder
            3. Speaking about PLO, some forget about PLO aircraft and stationary (coastal) hydroacoustic stations.

            How can you forget about all eight PLO aircraft of our Navy? wink
            And we also remember the age of their gliders. And about the absence of a new domestic fully localized base vehicle for the PLO aircraft - too.
            1. Volder
              Volder 9 September 2020 21: 06 New
              +1
              Quote: Alexey RA
              And the mine is even worse there.
              Nothing is worse. To plant mines, their carriers need to enter the "zone of closed access and restrictions on maneuvers", which we are successfully able to create (Crimea, Kaliningrad). The mine carriers will be intercepted and will not leave alive. Are there any daredevils? There is no such. It's about proactive tactics.
              How does Project 22160, which does not have a GAS, TA, SAM, even a small radius and ZAK, will close the problem of OVR?
              Lord, why are you not so attentive then ??? I repeat to you once again: since the OVR is not only anti-submarine defense, then Project 22160 does not act alone, but together with Project 20380/85. Together, they provide RIA. And Chirkov also talked about stationary sonar stations, drones, coastal radars and missile systems "Bal", "Bastion", aviation.
              On anti-submarine capabilities 22160 corresponds to PSKR "Herluf Bidstrup" - "helicopter laying barge".
              I repeat to you once again: when project 22160 was created, GAS "Minotaur" was planned for it, but it is still not ready. Let's hope that it will be finished sooner or later, just like the "Polyment-Redoubt" for 22350 was finished.
              How can you forget about all eight PLO aircraft of our Navy?
              For the withdrawal of ships and submarines from the base along their course, these aircraft are sufficient. In addition, do not forget about the Varshavyanka diesel-electric submarines, which move to the deployment area in a couple of days and await enemy submarines.
              1. Arkon
                Arkon 9 September 2020 22: 08 New
                +1
                There, "Long Karrakurt" claims to be the IPC ...
                1. Volder
                  Volder 11 September 2020 19: 12 New
                  0
                  Quote: Arkon
                  There, "Long Karrakurt" claims to be the IPC ...
                  The opinion prevails among experts and some readers of VO that the long IPC "Karakurt" is a journalistic duck. In fact, there is no such project.
      2. Volder
        Volder 9 September 2020 17: 12 New
        0
        Quote: Arkon
        This corvette is not going to walk in the ocean.
        When the Zircon hypersonic missiles appear, he will not have to.
        Apparently, it is planned to use these corvettes as strike units.
        It is versatile. It is no coincidence that the Ministry of Defense ordered many corvettes so as not to breed a variety of types.
        And to ensure underwater safety by other means.
        Underwater safety is a complex of measures taken by different means in combination. Including corvettes.
    2. Beregovic_1
      Beregovic_1 9 September 2020 14: 08 New
      +2
      Nevertheless, a corvette with a helicopter, torpedoes, anti-torpedoes, and a good SAC is many times superior to the Albatross PLO. So, before their appearance, there was simply NOTHING at the Pacific Fleet to ensure the exit of nuclear submarines to sea. 1155 does not count, since they are based 2000 km from Vilyuchinsk (however, as well as 1124m, and diesel-electric submarines pr. 877). That is, before the formation of the corvette brigade in Vilyuchinsk, there was NOTHING AT ALL, except for minesweepers and mrk.
    3. Volder
      Volder 9 September 2020 16: 42 New
      -1
      Quote: bars1
      If you believe Timokhin-Klimov, then 20380 in its current form as an anti-submarine agent is crap and a delicacy for Japanese and American submarines
      If you believe them, then we have the most shitty fleet in the world, not capable of anything. Literally, every ship has flaws, and therefore, they are worse than their foreign counterparts. Japanese and American ships are so good that they will never allow a Russian submarine to approach them, and even more so they will not allow themselves to be discovered and knocked out. But they will easily find the Russian submarine first from afar and will certainly be the first to attack with an understandable result. Yes, to the quality of NATO ships we are as to the Moon ... I personally do not support such alarmist sentiments.
      1. timokhin-aa
        timokhin-aa 11 September 2020 18: 05 New
        +1
        I personally do not support such alarmist sentiments.


        And you, in fact, what grounds do you have to "not support" something? You confuse MRK with a missile boat.
    4. timokhin-aa
      timokhin-aa 11 September 2020 18: 09 New
      0
      No need to juggle, please.
      It has a lot of disadvantages. But they are removable.
      1. Volder
        Volder 11 September 2020 19: 36 New
        0
        Quote: timokhin-aa
        It has a lot of disadvantages. But they are removable.
        It seems to me, Alexander, that any fleet of any country has drawbacks.
        Quote: timokhin-aa
        You confuse MRK with a missile boat.
        I am not confusing, I just think that with the advent of the Bal, Bastion and the Karakurt and Buyan ballistic missile systems, missile boats are not needed at all by our fleet. The US, for example, has no missile boats. Could you please give me a link to your article, where you justify the need to have "mosquito" boats? It is interesting to read your opinion in more detail.
        1. timokhin-aa
          timokhin-aa 11 September 2020 23: 04 New
          0
          https://topwar.ru/167853-legkie-sily-vmf-ih-znachenie-zadachi-i-korabelnyj-sostav.html
  • bars1
    bars1 8 September 2020 11: 32 New
    0
    Members of the forum, forgive me for the possibly stupid question, but why is the deck in the bow of pr. 12700 sloped towards the stem? I watch them all the time and wonder. This does not contribute to seaworthiness, or is there something I don't understand?
  • Connor MacLeod
    Connor MacLeod 8 September 2020 13: 28 New
    0
    Is it really possible to modernize the project 20380 according to this scheme - instead of the missile defense system, insert the UKSK, and place the missile defense system in the stern near the helicopter hangar? Or will it fail?

    1. Cympak
      Cympak 8 September 2020 18: 15 New
      +1
      This will not work, you need to redesign the internal compartments
    2. unknown
      unknown 11 September 2020 16: 48 New
      0
      Or maybe it is better to resume work on the Medvedka PLUR, complete them successfully, put them into service, and install 2 * 4 in the stern, side by side, between the hangar and the helicopter's take-off area, where 20385 missiles are located.
      1. Connor MacLeod
        Connor MacLeod 11 September 2020 17: 04 New
        0
        Well, what really can't be stuck in the stern of the missile defense system in 20380?
        1. timokhin-aa
          timokhin-aa 11 September 2020 18: 10 New
          0
          It is irrational, the whole ship will have to be cut.
          1. Connor MacLeod
            Connor MacLeod 11 September 2020 18: 37 New
            0
            Yomayo da Uranus is nothing at all! And so there would be heavy anti-ship missiles and PLUR and CD for ground targets to work out ...
  • Alex968m
    Alex968m 8 September 2020 15: 49 New
    0
    Again, one small thing: (((Stubbornly not a single destroyer, and not even a single 22350M. For all the post-Soviet times, not a single ocean-class ship has been built, and it is not expected :( One mosquito fleet: (((
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 8 September 2020 15: 57 New
      -2
      For that, two helicopter carriers were laid down.
    2. Cympak
      Cympak 8 September 2020 18: 14 New
      +4
      You have to be realistic. The fleet has been brought to such a state that it is necessary to dance from the coast: first, saturate the fleet with minesweepers, corvettes and frigates, and then cherish "mriya" about blue water with ocean destroyers, cruisers, aircraft carriers, large supply ships ...
    3. RusKosTen
      RusKosTen 9 September 2020 05: 57 New
      +3
      I disagree, everything is very logical. Finally, the industry began to lay a series of ships, projects worked out in previous years. Remember the problems with head 22350 and 20380, how they were tortured - they restored production chains, trained personnel, developed their own engines and gearboxes to replace Ukrainian, Chinese, and German ones. And start all over again, new wunderwales? if we do this, by 2025 we will have only one name from the fleet with a bunch of long-term construction projects with incomprehensible prospects.
  • ZEMCH
    ZEMCH 8 September 2020 17: 48 New
    +4
    Now about the sad things. As one of the prominent figures of our country said - cadres decide everything! Everything is fine, we are building NDTs and submarines, but we should not forget about personnel training. A naval officer is trained for five years, then the first years of service, in fact, this is additional training on the basis of already acquired knowledge. And also warrant officers and contract soldiers (I do not take conscripts into account, it is not realistic to train them during their service life). To provide these cadres and their families with living conditions in the places where they are based, the task is not less important, but perhaps more important, since to lose staff after so much investment of effort, time and money is wasteful and hopeless.
    We also do not forget about the preparation of the bases for new NK and submarines. This is not only a berth, but also spare parts and accessories of all levels, representatives of the industry for warranty and post-warranty service, the presence of docks and shipyards that will provide repairs.
    Fleet contracts are good, but let's not forget the above.
  • hroft
    hroft 8 September 2020 19: 23 New
    +4
    We ordered two more "Ash-M", did not find it in the article about it
  • Imperial Technocrat
    Imperial Technocrat 9 September 2020 00: 59 New
    0
    We have gained a good pace, in 2-4 years the fleet will significantly increase, and by the end of the decade it will be generally powerful. Ash needs to be riveted. We were also pleased with the restoration and modernization of Shchuk-B. Only it is not clear why there are torpedoes there - this is the last century. Rocket torpedoes Caliber are much more effective
    1. timokhin-aa
      timokhin-aa 11 September 2020 18: 11 New
      0
      This is what I understand the level of consciousness! Unattainable depth!
  • Seaflame
    Seaflame 10 September 2020 02: 28 New
    +1
    I am very glad that the series of corvettes of project 20386 was postponed. Now the Navy is not up to experiments and adventures, not to fat, but ships of project 20380 have already been mastered, the shortcomings are being eliminated, the series will go more or less well. Of course, I would like more frigates of pr. 22350, for the Pacific Fleet and the Northern Fleet, at least 6 for each. But apparently it will focus on 22350M.
  • Sckepsis
    Sckepsis 11 September 2020 22: 27 New
    0

    Thus, the recently ordered minesweeper will complete the first dozen, and the construction of such a large series will cover the needs of all fleets.

    Oh?
  • Cyril G ...
    Cyril G ... 17 September 2020 19: 20 New
    0
    Quote: bayard
    In any case, the bagpipes with the "Zaslon" must be finished - for corvettes it is redundant (even if it is brought to mind) in terms of characteristics and is overpriced. And corvettes should be ordered according to the 20385 project, but with an adequate radar - both in price and in terms of capabilities. Then the price of the ship will be acceptable, the capabilities of the radar are sufficient, and the presence of the UKSK will allow you to effectively fight the enemy submarine.


    Quite right. But unfortunately, everyone will do it through F .... it seems to me.