French newspaper published some witness testimony in the MH17 case

On the day of the crash of a passenger plane in Donbas in 2014, Ukrainian Su-25 attack aircraft were heading towards the territory of the self-proclaimed republics to carry out combat missions. This was noticed by a man who lived in the Poltava region in a village over which military planes were flying.

He told a journalist from the Netherlands Stefan Beck about these and subsequent events on condition of nondisclosure of his identity, saying only that his name was Vyacheslav. Some of the testimonies were published by the French edition of AgoraVox.

Noticing the departure of attack aircraft, Vyacheslav warned "someone in Donetsk" about this by telephone. His call was intercepted by the SBU, so the man was detained by law enforcement officers. As it turned out, Vyacheslav's message about Ukrainian military aircraft heading for Donbas was made shortly before the death of MH17. Therefore, representatives of the JIT Joint Investigation Group took evidence from him.

While international investigators worked with Vyacheslav, the SBU officers treated him well. But as soon as the JIT found out from the detainee everything that was required, the man began to be beaten and tortured. Vyacheslav was accused of terrorism, but he claimed that he had warned the LDPR authorities about the departure of the Ukrainian military aviation to bombing to save the lives of local residents.

Actually, the JIT investigators did not take Vyacheslav's testimony into account, which is extremely surprising to some European journalists. They do not understand why Kiev is lying, that on the day of the death of the Malaysian "Boeing" aircraft of the Ukrainian Armed Forces did not fly over Donbass. After all, if the Ukrainian authorities decided to hide this fact, doubts arise about Ukraine's innocence in the death of the passenger liner.

The author also believes that it is time to impose sanctions against Kiev as punishment for systematic lies.

Comments

[Same lech]

the author believes that it is time to impose sanctions against Kiev as punishment for systematic lies.

The United States will not give ... a vassal may still be useful for new provocations ... the recent flight of American bombers across Ukraine near the borders of Russia clearly showed this ... there will be many more such provocations.

[Mountain shooter]

Quote: The same LYOKHA

the author believes that it is time to impose sanctions against Kiev as punishment for systematic lies.

The United States will not give ... a vassal may still be useful for new provocations ... the recent flight of American bombers across Ukraine near the borders of Russia clearly showed this ... there will be many more such provocations.

Yes, what sanctions. Burn out with napalm completely crazy. Sanctions for systematic lies. Who ??? And they, Nezalezhniki, generally spoke the truth even when ???

[military_cat]

Original article - https://www.agoravox.fr/actualites/international/article/mh17-un-temoin-ayant-vu-des-avions-226826

Earlier, during the time of the Spanish dispatcher, such articles were thrown from RT. Then RT became familiar, and in order to "launder" articles, they began to be thrown through Bonanza Media, pretending to be a Dutch publication (though founded by a former RT employee Yana Yerlashova). Now Bonanza Media has become familiar too, and the stuffing went through AgoraVox (a platform for lay journalists), with a link to Bonanza Media.

The main task of propaganda is to constantly create and support the feeling that nothing is clear and everything is unclean. And the result is pretty good if you look at its effect on people who are not used to the fact that the media can bluntly lie to them right in the eyes.

If someone thinks that this is an information war against the West, it is in vain. There, no one pays attention to these articles, they are made for domestic consumption and laundered through "Western" sources, then reprinted in Russia. The domestic consumer no longer believes in their media, and only the reference to "Western" sources still somehow works.

[ZAV69]

Quote: military_cat

The domestic consumer no longer believes in their media, and only the reference to "Western" sources still somehow works.

The domestic consumer knows that the Malaysian plane was crashed by svidomye and does not need such cleaning. I’ll even tell a big one, the internal consumer does not care deeply about who dropped this plane.

[Boa kaa]

Quote: Mountain Shooter

Burn out with napalm

Kiev - not Songmi ... KIEV - MOTHER OF RUSSIAN CITIES!
And the Nazis will soon come to a crawl ... This is as true as the collapse of capitalism (in a historical perspective, of course )

[Pilat2009]

Quote: BoA KAA

Quote: Mountain Shooter

Burn out with napalm

Kiev - not Songmi ... KIEV - MOTHER OF RUSSIAN CITIES!
And the Nazis will soon come to a crawl ... This is as true as the collapse of capitalism (in a historical perspective, of course )

Take care of Kiev, your mother

[Alber alber]

Everything ends sometime, and the present ruin will also end.

[APASUS]

One series of events: Maidan, Odessa, Mariupol, MN-17, one customer and one contractor! This is why there are no answers to questions, crimes are not investigated, they a priori cannot be investigated under this government

[Trapp1st]

The more time has passed since the tragedy, the less hope that the truth will be revealed.

[Real Pilot]

On the contrary!
A sharp change of power in Ukraine ... And how evidence will go from the cornucopia

[Trapp1st]

A sharp change in power in Ukraine ...

An abrupt change of power in Ukraine is a common thing, only the same come.

[ZAV69]

Quote: Trapp1st

A sudden change of power in Ukraine is a common thing, only the same come.

Why, Shoigu will stop by at the armature in Kiev and that's it. Quite a real scenario.

[rocket757]

This is their ... doggie's son, he can talk nonsense.

[svp67]

Actually, the JIT investigators did not take Vyacheslav's testimony into account, which causes extreme surprise among some European journalists.

The purpose of the investigation was not to find the guilty and the truth, its purpose was to accuse Russia and the further, the clearer it is. Let's see what is the purpose of the court

[Odysseus]

All this is fine and correct. But the version about the involvement of the Su-25 is still completely unconvincing.
Firstly, it contradicts the official position of Moscow according to which Ukraine shot down with the help of BukM1.
Secondly, it is simply unlikely that if the APU was faced with the task of shooting down a Boeing with an aircraft, it would not have sent the Su-25, which could not guarantee the fulfillment of such a task. It is impossible to accidentally shoot down a Boeing with another plane.

[Vladimir_6]

Quote: Odyssey

All this is fine and correct. But the version about the involvement of the Su-25 is still completely unconvincing.

The article on INOSMI.RU also mentions BUKs

However, military aircraft are not all that Vyacheslav has seen. Two days after the MH17 crash, he saw two Buk systems without missiles in the Poltava region on the Kharkov-Kiev highway, which were transported by trucks from Donbass to Kiev. The very Buks that were allegedly not in the conflict zone.

[Real Pilot]

So the Russian side provided them with evidence on the serial number of the rocket from 1986, having removed the secrecy label. The entire logistic path of the product, the number of which they themselves named.

In western Ukraine, it was in service as part of the complex ... From this, much becomes clear.
Therefore, the fact that the complex was hastily taken away by the APU from the combat zone is quite plausible!

[makasan34]

What big-eyed Vyacheslav, how could he see these beeches in two days if he was detained by the Security Council after his call to Donetsk?

[Vladimir_6]

Quote: makasan34

What big-eyed Vyacheslav, how could he see these beeches in two days if he was detained by the Security Council after his call to Donetsk?

Maxim, are you an SBU officer? Do you have an exact date for the detention of "Vyacheslav"? "After the call" is a loose concept. It could be five minutes or five days.

[fn34440]

“All this is fine and correct. But the version about the involvement of the Su-25 is still completely unconvincing.
Firstly, it contradicts the official position of Moscow according to which Ukraine shot down with the help of BukM1.
Secondly, it is simply unlikely that if the APU was faced with the task of shooting down a Boeing with an aircraft, it would not have sent the Su-25, which could not guarantee the fulfillment of such a task. It is impossible to accidentally shoot down a Boeing with another plane."
Odysseus is the pure nihilism of Dunno.
The Joint Investigation Group (JIT) - the Netherlands, Australia, Malaysia, Ukraine, Belgium - at one time discovered and showed parts of the 9M38 missile from the Buk missile launcher found near the Boeing crash site - an engine and a nozzle with their own individual serial numbers. And thus allowed the Russian Ministry of Defense to collect irrefutable evidence.

According to the documentation of the Buk manufacturing plant - Dolgoprudny Research and Production Enterprise - it was possible to establish that this engine and nozzle were supplied to the 9M38 factory product with serial number 8868720, where the first 8 is the enterprise code, 86 is the year of manufacture, and 8720 is factory serial number. The rocket was assembled on December 24, 1986, received the side (combat) number 886847379, and after only 5 days, on December 29, it was sent by rail to the place of service, to the military unit 20152. Where it was put into service in early 1987.



Military unit 20152 at that time was the 223rd anti-aircraft missile brigade of the Carpathian military district, stationed near Ternopil. In independent Ukraine, this brigade turned into the 223rd anti-aircraft missile regiment, which was redeployed to the area of ​​the city of Stryi, Lviv region. And in 2014 this regiment took part in the war in Donbass.
THIS is not the position of Moscow, THIS is a FACT.

[Odysseus]

Quote: fn34440

Odysseus is the pure nihilism of Dunno.

What is this kindergarten hitting?
I am writing - the official position of Moscow shot down Ukraine with BukM1 For some reason, you are writing a long sheet with old information from the Russian Ministry of Defense that shot down Ukraine with BukM1 Are you talking to yourself?

Quote: fn34440

THIS is not the position of Moscow, THIS is a FACT.

But for the Investigative Group this is not a fact, and for Ukraine it is not a fact. They have a different position.
I am writing- this is Moscow's position And the Su-25, according to this position, has nothing to do with it.
And about the "fact", you are apparently the Lord God who knows where the truth is

[Azis]

Quote: fn34440

I was sent to my place of service, to a military unit 20152 [...] THIS IS not the position of Moscow, THIS IS A FACT.

The forms were then shown: mismatch in dates, different handwriting. It would be better if Russia cited clear facts in proof OPEN and OFFICIALLY, further defending this particular version. Otherwise, Almaz-Antey, the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation (at first) tried to put forward something as versions (about the media - Channel 1, with its version I am silent), and the Ministry of Foreign Affairs-Government-President of the Russian Federation are silent. Everything is at the level of the yellow press ... The great-great-grandchildren will probably find out the truth.

[Azis]

For those who instructed the cons. What didn't you like? Are there any intelligible explanations, denials, documents made public - the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, the Government, the President of the Russian Federation? "Boeing shot down Pedro So-and-so from There"? What to chew on snot - either we (the Russian Federation), or they (all the others), to which Russia is not involved ... Hush up all the same will not work - the enemies remember everything and remember on occasion

[Alber alber]

Here they offer to cooperate in the bulk case, openly and admit all whoever is not necessary, but they will not show their results, the secret of the Bundeswehr. You first confirm your list with proofs, facts and other things, and then be surprised at the cons. And tie you this "we (RF)", what kind of RF you are, you are the same near-echo, not happy, bloody red and other liberota. You prove, since you put forward fake accusations, it is a presumption, however, and Russia does not owe you anything.

[sentaniel]

There is no contradiction. The militia shot down a Su-25, and the Ukrainian crew shot down a Malaysian Boeing. That's the whole special operation and setup.

[geniy]

Yes, the fact is that none of the leadership of Ukraine at all began the task of shooting down Boeing. It's just that one single person wanted to shoot a Russian passenger plane. But instead of the Russian, he got a Malaysian Boeing.

[4ekist]

These fluffy Cheburashkas (the leadership of Ukraine) have long been put in a well-known pose.

[Odysseus]

Quote: geniy

It's just that one single person wanted to shoot a Russian passenger plane.

Several questions immediately arise - what kind of person is this, why does he need it, what kind of plane, and why did he send an unsuitable Su-25 to this business? Or do you mean the Su-25 pilot?

Quote: geniy

But instead of the Russian, he got a Malaysian Boeing.

It's incomprehensible. Who caught the Su-25 pilot without a radar and with a ceiling 8 km away?

[geniy]

Several questions immediately arise - what kind of person is this,

Of course, this is Vladislav Voloshin, the pilot of the Su-25 attack aircraft.

why does he need it,

And then, in those months, all the Ukrainian mass media shouted that Russian passenger planes were conducting secret reconnaissance - they were photographing the positions of the Ukrainian troops from a height, and all Ukrainian media offered to shoot Russian passenger airliners! So Voloshin succumbed to this provocation, but he simply confused the Russian airliner with the Malaysian one - both have red-blue-white paintwork.

unsuitable for this Su-25

The Su-25 has an air cannon, from which he began to shoot the Malaysian Boeing, made several approaches and attacks, and in addition, the Su-25 has dozens of small unguided missiles against the ground, so in the end it approached the Malaysian Boeing almost closely and fired a volley at it all their missiles.

It's incomprehensible. Who caught the Su-25 pilot without a radar and with a ceiling 8 km away?

And even there is something incomprehensible? The Su-25 shot the Malaysian Boeing almost point-blank - from the rear hemisphere from a very convenient position and did not need a radar at all. And the real flight altitude of the Su-25 using an oxygen mask is 10-14 km, and the power of the engines allows the Su-25 to rise to an altitude of 16 km. And Russian pilots often made ferry flights on the Su-25 at an altitude of 10 km at a speed higher than that of a Boeing 950 km / h.

[Pilat2009]

Quote: geniy

Several questions immediately arise - what kind of person is this,

Of course, this is Vladislav Voloshin, the pilot of the Su-25 attack aircraft.

why does he need it,

And then, in those months, all the Ukrainian mass media shouted that Russian passenger planes were conducting secret reconnaissance - they were photographing the positions of the Ukrainian troops from a height, and all Ukrainian media offered to shoot Russian passenger airliners! So Voloshin succumbed to this provocation, but he simply confused the Russian airliner with the Malaysian one - both have red-blue-white paintwork.

unsuitable for this Su-25

The Su-25 has an air cannon, from which he began to shoot the Malaysian Boeing, made several approaches and attacks, and in addition, the Su-25 has dozens of small unguided missiles against the ground, so in the end it approached the Malaysian Boeing almost closely and fired a volley at it all their missiles.

It's incomprehensible. Who caught the Su-25 pilot without a radar and with a ceiling 8 km away?

And even there is something incomprehensible? The Su-25 shot the Malaysian Boeing almost point-blank - from the rear hemisphere from a very convenient position and did not need a radar at all. And the real flight altitude of the Su-25 using an oxygen mask is 10-14 km, and the power of the engines allows the Su-25 to rise to an altitude of 16 km. And Russian pilots often made ferry flights on the Su-25 at an altitude of 10 km at a speed higher than that of a Boeing 950 km / h.

Practical ceiling Su 25 -7 km, maximum speed 950 km / h Ferry flights are performed without weapons and ammunition

[geniy]

Ferry flights are carried out without weapons and ammunition

Yes, even without underpants they can perform ferry flights. It's just for convenience and does not land on your airfield with suspended ammunition - an additional danger. And I cited ferry flights as an example, simply because Russian pilots had no other reason to climb to a great height, but pilot Voloshin had such a reason - to destroy a passenger airliner.
And this is a pure lie about the maximum height of 7 km - in fact, this height is not included in the oxygen device. And with oxygen, in principle, he could climb 14 kilometers - only higher is already impossible - the pilot will die. And the engines of the Su-25 attack aircraft allow it to rise to an altitude of up to 16 km, and only human capabilities are limited to 14 km. ... ...

[Pilat2009]

Quote: geniy

Ferry flights are carried out without weapons and ammunition

Yes, even without underpants they can perform ferry flights. It's just for convenience and does not land on your airfield with suspended ammunition - an additional danger. And I cited ferry flights as an example, simply because Russian pilots had no other reason to climb to a great height, but pilot Voloshin had such a reason - to destroy a passenger airliner.
And this is a pure lie about the maximum height of 7 km - in fact, this height is not included in the oxygen device. And with oxygen, in principle, he could climb 14 kilometers - only higher is already impossible - the pilot will die. And the engines of the Su-25 attack aircraft allow it to rise to an altitude of up to 16 km, and only human capabilities are limited to 14 km. ... ...

You will read what a practical ceiling is, then you will talk about a person

[Vladimir_6]

Quote: geniy

Yes, the fact is that none of the leadership of Ukraine at all began the task of shooting down Boeing. It's just that one single person wanted to shoot a Russian passenger plane. But instead of the Russian, he got a Malaysian Boeing.

Greetings Mr. X
You probably forgot that Ukrainian dispatchers changed the flight route for the flight MH-17 crew.
He was purposefully prepared for "landing". The performers miscalculated only in one thing - he was supposed to fall on the Russian territory, but he did not reach Russia.

[geniy]

You probably forgot that Ukrainian dispatchers changed the flight route for the flight MH-17 crew.

No, I haven't forgotten anything. First, the slight deviation of the route was probably the result of damage to the Boeing's steering. And secondly: the pilot Voloshin made the first shelling of the Malaysian Boeing 100 kilometers from the combat zone, that is, over purely Ukrainian territory. In the first second, the attack aircraft's cannon shells killed both Boeing pilots, but he continued to fly under the control of the autopilot. At the same time, the living passengers screamed in horror. And Voloshin made three attacks from the air cannon, going in from the right, then from the left - but the Boeing did not fall. And only when Voloshin fired a volley of unguided rockets at the half-dead plane - only then the airliner fell to pieces. So Voloshin did not think about anything at all and this Boeing could easily fall on Ukrainian territory.

[Vladimir_6]

Quote: geniy

No, I haven't forgotten anything. First, the slight deviation of the route was probably the result of damage to the Boeing's steering.

The steering is just fine.
"The transcript of the voice recorder of the Boeing 777 plane that crashed in the Donetsk region showed that the flight took place as usual and there was no emergency on board."

And secondly: the pilot Voloshin made the first shelling of the Malaysian Boeing 100 kilometers from the combat zone, that is, over purely Ukrainian territory. In the first second, the attack aircraft's cannon shells killed both Boeing pilots, but he continued to fly under the control of the autopilot. At the same time, the living passengers screamed in horror. And Voloshin made three attacks from the air cannon, going in from the right, then from the left - but the Boeing did not fall. And only when Voloshin fired a volley of unguided rockets at the half-dead plane - only then the airliner fell to pieces.

Where are the details from?
The phrase of a certain witness that Voloshin, returning after departure, shouted: "The plane is not the same" I am familiar, but I have not met the details of his actions.

[geniy]

The steering is just fine.
"The transcript of the voice recorder of the Boeing 777 plane that crashed in the Donetsk region showed that the flight took place as usual and there was no emergency on board."

Do you consider the shooting of the plane to be a normal situation?
After all, I wrote in Russian that the shooting of the Boeing began 100 kilometers before the point of its fall to the ground. And immediately - both pilots were killed by the first burst of the cannon and the voice recorder could not register a normal conversation. Moreover, the scoundrels, the British, probably cut off the tape of the speech recorder at the first examination.

[Vladimir_6]

Quote: geniy

Do you consider the shooting of the plane to be a normal situation?

After all, it is written in Russian - "The flight took place as usual and there was no emergency situation ON BOARD."
Shooting a civilian plane is not a situation. This is a war crime.

the shooting of the Boeing began 100 kilometers before the point of its fall to the ground And immediately - the first round of the cannon killed both pilots

I asked you a question

Where are the details from?

If

the shooting of the Boeing began 100 kilometers before the point of its fall to the ground

this would be reflected in the opinion of the commission.

[geniy]

After all, it is written in Russian - "The flight took place as usual and there was no emergency situation ON BOARD."

Yes, absolutely do not give a shit in what conditions the flight took place before the start of the shelling. Because as soon as ammunition began to hit the airliner, it was only because of them that it deviated from the course, and not at all by order of the dispatcher.

[geniy]

the shooting of the Boeing began 100 kilometers before the point of its fall to the ground

this would be reflected in the opinion of the commission.

And you? Are you a naive child or what?
The commission had a super task: to shift the blame for the death of Boeing from a sore head to a healthy one - from Ukraine to Russia. And therefore, almost all facts and circumstances by this commission were blatantly falsified, while others were shamelessly not noticed.

[geniy]

this would be reflected in the opinion of the commission.

But have you read in the conclusion of this criminal commission that the Boeing's cabin is riddled with shells from an aircraft cannon - and that's exactly what it was! That is, the commission is staffed by scoundrels who wrote a vile lie!

[geniy]

Where are the details from?

And from my own sources of logical investigation. You may not remember that, but the holes in the cockpit of the Malaysian Boeing are located on two sides - as if the shooting was carried out from both sides of it. Moreover, the shells should have been enough for three rounds, that is, there were three phases spread from the air cannon and the fourth from the blocks of unguided missiles. That is, Voloshin began shelling from the left side of the Boeing, then switched to its right, then again switched to the left side and in the third stage fired all the shells and looked at the flying Boeing with bewilderment. But Voloshin guessed to release all his unguided rockets at it.

[Vladimir_6]

Quote: geniy

And from my own sources of logical investigation.

God willing, we will wait until we find out the truth.

[Vladimir Mashkov]

Quote: geniy

Quote: geniy

You are right that Voloshin shot down a Boeing. But they are wrong that he did it on his own and without an order. I wrote about all this, about the roles of Voloshin, his partner, the battery operators of the Ukrainian "Buks", the Dnipropetrovsk dispatchers in a large article, which VO did not print, but published "Russian Spring". This article is easy to find.

As for this material, the truth is slowly emerging ...

[Ilya Nikitich]

Did the article say that the SU 25 was shot down? It is said that a man saw how on the day of the downing of the Boeing two dryers flew towards Donbass, and the Ukrainians claim that there were no flights on that day at all.

[Captain Pushkin]

In the first days after the fall of Boeing, reports from the Donetsk region (DPR) were broadcast on all channels, where eyewitnesses (not one) claimed that they saw a "military aircraft", and some that there were two "military aircraft".
And about the explosions in the sky - that first there was a "strong explosion", and then two more, less loud ones followed.
Interviewed residents of the village, on the outskirts of which the debris fell.
In order to be convinced of this, it is enough to look through the news archive for a week or two, after the downing of Boeing.

[Evgeny Goncharov (smoogg)]

RT and others reported that it was the AN-26 militia who shot down. Or what are you hinting at? Are you a Russophobe?

[geniy]

First, the Ukrainian An-26 was shot down on July 14, and the Malaysian Boeing was shot down on July 17. And secondly, An-26 was shot down when it was flying at low altitude and was dropping parachutists and cargo.

[Evgeny Goncharov (smoogg)]

I'm talking about the one that "lies behind the Progress mine." A slightly different story.

[Incvizitor]

There, every day, Bandera litaki were shot down, sometimes two pieces a day.

[Evgeny Goncharov (smoogg)]

Yes, I remember these exploits of the militia. As it turned out later, they did it "without having air defense weapons", they shot down by willpower, hehe

[geniy]

Yes, I remember these exploits of the militia. As it turned out later, they did it "without having air defense weapons", they shot down by willpower, hehe

This is from your general stupidity. The fact is that the militias really did not have any anti-aircraft missiles - including MANPADS missiles - that is, portable anti-aircraft missile systems. But they did have anti-tank missiles! And personally, I believe that it is with these anti tank they shot down missiles low-flying Ukrainian planes and helicopters. Well, of course they also used a 23 mm ZSU. That is, these stupid people think that if the maximum flight altitude of the An-26 is 6 km, then it was at this altitude that it was shot down with an unknown weapon. But in fact, this plane dropped to low-level flight, and that's where it was shot down.

[Freeman]

Quote: Captain Pushkin

In the first days after the fall of Boeing, reports from the Donetsk region (DPR) were broadcast on all channels, where eyewitnesses (more than one) claimed to have seen a "military plane"

Yeah, even on Russian TV they showed a "satellite image" ...

Shl. "Shaw, again ?!" (c)

[Avior]

It seems already obvious that they were hit by a beech

[Captain Pushkin]

Quote: Avior

It seems already obvious that they were hit by a beech

At the same time, there is not a single witness who saw the smoky plume from the Buk rocket.

[Avior]

It was determined not by the train, but by the nature of the damage.

[Oleg1263]

So the article does not say what exactly the planes were shot down. The point is that Ukraine is hiding the fact of military aviation flights on this day. What for ? I remember they said that some of the radars were on prophylaxis, others were turned off altogether ... Is it possible to fly military aircraft in the conditions of radar “prophylaxis”?

[Avior]

If shot down from the ground, then what does the Su-25 have to do with it?

[Vladimir61]

The author also believes that it is time to impose sanctions against Kiev as punishment for systematic lies.

Oh kind and honest person, if you live by your principles, then the Western elite and the media would live under eternal sanctions!

[cniza]

The author also believes that it is time to impose sanctions against Kiev as punishment for systematic lies.

Oh, I can't believe my eyes ...

[Azis]

For 6 years it is impossible to find at least some "truth". Efremov's defense probably draws inspiration from the MN-17 case.

[Cossack 471]

Initially, it was necessary for our management to announce. that those who provide real evidence and fighters ukroverrmacht. shot down litak our state will pay 1 million American money
And then the soldiers and officers of the Armed Forces of Ukraine would bring the perpetrators, along with evidence in the trunks of their cars, to Russia and there would be no sanctions. It was possible to keep within 10-20 million dollars on a budget. and not suffer billions of dollars in losses from sanctions

[Azis]

There were and will be sanctions until the state was destroyed. And I don’t believe in "Privoz", they have already been promoted too much so that the loot will not decide. The same generals and some of the government - they lived under the Union, studied in the same country ... And exchange everything for someone else's (?) Values? How can you? I was raised differently. And the "soldiers" have already grown up in another state. The generation has practically changed. Soon those who were brought up, remember and know the USSR will leave ... I - I won't see it, but, unfortunately - my son will feel what will happen after ...

[sevryuk]

... then there will be a reunification of the country. The feudal-kleptarchic system is short-lived.

[geniy]

Bravo! Bravo! You are absolutely right! Although there was one such witness directly from the air regiment where Voloshin served ...

[Wwk7260]

For 6 years in the Russian Federation, they have not decided on the vector of protection, and are rushing from side to side, meanwhile the horse understands that the plane was shot down by Buk from the territory controlled by the DPR forces, and Strelkov hinted at this more than once. The main thing in this story is that UA intentionally sent Boeing into the combat zone, where the DPR air defense was actively working.

[geniy]

For 6 years in the Russian Federation, they have not decided on the vector of protection

In this part of your phrase, you are absolutely right - you fools from the leadership of the General Staff and other organizations - (Almaz-Antey), the chief designer of the Su-25 really deceived the whole society.
In fact, the Malaysian Boeing was shot down by a Su-25 attack aircraft driven by pilot Voloshin.

[Wwk7260]

Su25 with Voloshin could be sent to the Boeing flight zone, to create confusion with targets, after the Buk was launched, it was easy to leave and substitute a larger target, but the DNR Buk most likely fired, only now it’s too late to drink Borjomi, it was necessary to react immediately and build another line protection, as Iran did on the Ukrainian Boeing.

[geniy]

Su25 with Voloshin could be sent to the Boeing flight zone

What? What do you say? And do you remember that the leadership of the Ukrainian Armed Forces claims that not a single Ukrainian plane flew that day! So please explain: nevertheless not a single Ukrainian plane flew that day, or Su-25 was sent there?

[Wwk7260]

Why would the UAE recognize Voloshin's flight made to confuse the air defense of the DPR, this immediately casts a shadow of suspicion on the UA leadership and what do you want from me, sending me a question, flew, did not fly. Today's excuses look mirrored to the Ukrainian "fagots" with the downed Russian Tu 154 over the World Cup, I'm talking about that, and that it was necessary to act similarly, as Iran did, and accuse the UA of the incident, and not of the physical downing of the aircraft, is that clear?

[ender]

Iran has admitted its mistake. And this version was used in Syria

[Captain Pushkin]

Quote: Wwk7260

probably shot DNRovskiy Buk

And this is nothing that the Minister of Defense of Ukraine said that the Armed Forces of Ukraine did not leave ANY BUK COMPLEX on the territory of the DPR?
In addition, the leadership of the border service of Ukraine, stated that the BUK complexes did not cross the border of Ukraine (this is for supporters of the idea that the Buk was brought from the Russian Federation)

[Alex Miche]

I would add, this is understandable to any donkey, but the trouble is, there is not enough I-beams from the Buk rocket and holes from I-beams in Boeing. And the number of holes in the Boeing is two times less than it would be from the Buk, and the Buk missile does not hit the cockpit, its radio fuse is triggered with a delay of 3-6 meters. Well, the witnesses, bastards, for some reason did not see the smoky trail from the Buk rocket, but they heard in the sky at least two explosions over Grabovo. Apparently, this Buk missile had two warheads.

[ender]

is this the only witness? Here's another wonderful witness



the phrase "drying went into reverse" - generally beyond the epic

[Viktor Sergeev]

The result was immediately announced, and then there is an adjustment to the answer.

[ender]

but the funniest thing in this situation is that at a briefing by the Russian Ministry of Defense and representatives of the military-industrial complex on the primary radar data on MH17 from 26.09.16/XNUMX/XNUMX, it was clearly stated that: -
no third-party objects, in the vicinity of the Malaysian aircraft, the radar did not record
those. The Russian Ministry of Defense refuted its own earlier statements, and the Boeing fell on its own

[geniy]

no third-party objects, in the vicinity of the Malaysian aircraft, the radar did not record

Yes, there are indeed outstanding fools in the Russian General Staff. The fact is that the Su-25 attack aircraft approached the Boeing at an extremely close distance, so that the Russian radars located at a distance of about 100 km from it were simply notdid not distinguish two goals from one another. I.e for them he was one by plane! And only when Voloshin fired at the Boeing with all the missiles and it fell apart, and Voloshin pursued him to the very ground and then soared into the sky and shouted: "Glory to Ukraine" and from the ground the dispatcher answered him: "Glory to the heroes!", Then Russian radars noticed that the Ukrainian Su-25 was in the area of ​​the Boeing crash.
However, Russian locators noticed that even at the beginning of the tragedy, a Ukrainian Su-25 attack aircraft approached the Malaysian Boeing.

[Reviews]

What kind of next autumn aggravation is that .. "Shaw ?! Again ?!" Su-25? Our ... these ... in general, the late ones have already gone off the rails. Instead of a coherent and well-grounded line of accusations ukroreikh again dug out the barmaid.

[Ingenegr]

[quote] The author also believes that it is time to impose sanctions against Kiev as punishment for systematic lies. [quote]
Liars decided to punish liars for lying, -
Like, how can you lie to everyone all the time?
They decided this: "Execute, if you lie at least once!"
But ... The raven will not peck out the eyes.

[iouris]

Stop procrastinating about "news" on MN-17. The claims of the victims are brought against the air carrier. If the carrier proves the absence of guilt in court, then the air traffic control organizations and the state in whose air production the airliner was shot down ("Kiev Rus") are put on trial. The "victims" call for admitting guilt and paying off Moscow.

[Normal ok]

How many versions have already been ... Incl. at the level of state-owned companies. There is nothing to say about any "French edition". These are bought for one or two.

[Aleks2000]

Again stormtroopers, again flew south ... apparently autumn ...

[Karaul73]

Quote: ZAV69

Quote: military_cat

The domestic consumer no longer believes in their media, and only the reference to "Western" sources still somehow works.

The domestic consumer knows that the Malaysian plane was crashed by svidomye and does not need such cleaning. I’ll even tell a big one, the internal consumer does not care deeply about who dropped this plane.

And why did Ukraine need it?

[tolmachiev51]

So what !!!??? Soon in USA, we are waiting for the next show with "bad" Russians.

[Captain Pushkin]

Quote: Avior

It was determined not by the train, but by the nature of the damage.

By the nature of the damage, it is a very problematic situation - there is damage that is possible only with an internal explosion and there is damage that is possible only with an external explosion.
There are big questions about the submunitions - is there confidence that they are not from the same bag as the one who took the Buka missile fragment (belonging to the Ukrainian Armed Forces) from nowhere?
Well, if this is a Buk rocket, should it have flown to the plane? How can she do this without leaving a smoky trail of burnt fuel?

[Captain Pushkin]

Quote: Sentry73

Quote: ZAV69

Quote: military_cat

The domestic consumer no longer believes in their media, and only the reference to "Western" sources still somehow works.

The domestic consumer knows that the Malaysian plane was crashed by svidomye and does not need such cleaning. I’ll even tell a big one, the internal consumer does not care deeply about who dropped this plane.

And why did Ukraine need it?

Is it okay that the fall of this "eroplan" actually stopped the offensive of the militias, and a bunch of sanctions were imposed on the Russian Federation and greatly limited the ability to support the LPNR?
By the way, why did Ukraine need to cover the Boeing crash site with artillery fire and block access to it for the commission to investigate the accident?

[andrew42]

The fact that the Ukrainian SU-25 was there is practically an established fact. The fact that the main damage to the Boeing fuselage corresponds to the BUK's striking elements, as well as the discovery of the remnants of a missile with a serial number (corresponding to the armament of the Ukrainian air defense system) is also a fact. It is quite possible that the first attack on the Boeing was carried out from the Ukrainian dry land by projectile damage to the cockpit, and the second attack on destruction was carried out by the BUK, the missile of which was supposed to provide a "quasi-Russian trail" and ensure the destruction of the aircraft to hide the traces of the first attack. Such a scenario could well be realized, with a guarantee of target detection, with a double guarantee of destruction, and with the aim of covering up the tracks as much as possible.

[Oleg133]

Lord, how much can you ...
Well, look at the pictures after the fall.
Aircraft of 200 tons do not fall from a height of 10 km
Yes, and parts from another plane ...

Nobody knocked anyone down there

[Oleg133]

Shooting down a plane for provocation is not reliable.
He may not fly, he may fly. He can even fly to the airfield and land. The pilots will, when hit, for another 5-10 minutes, shout the whole truth to the uterus

[kris_67]

Some kind of porridge, another "crucified boy", the aircraft of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, the death of MH17, the Ukrainian Su-25 attack aircraft, the SBU - all in a bunch of "horses, people." It seems that it has already been proven and everyone agrees that it was a Buk and the number of the missile was determined, etc. And here again the Su-25, this is the one that Zakharchenko personally saw at an altitude of 10m.