Military Review

Battle on the Lower Dnieper. Blucher and Gorodovikov against Vitkovsky and Barbovich

73
Battle on the Lower Dnieper. Blucher and Gorodovikov against Vitkovsky and Barbovich

Vladimirov I. A. “Capture tanks near Kakhovka ". 1927 g.


The assault on the Kakhovsky bridgehead lasted five days and nights. Soviet artillery met the White Guards with deadly fire. Multi-row barbed wire obstacles had to be cut with bayonets. Attempts to break through the defenses of the Red Army with the help of tanks also did not lead to success. The Red Army soldiers learned to beat enemy tanks, rolling out light guns for direct fire.

August battle on the Lower Dnieper


A group of Reds on the Dnieper launched an offensive on August 20, 1920. The blow fell on the 2nd Army Corps of General Vitkovsky. Blucher's troops (51st and 52nd rifle divisions, Sablin's combined cavalry division) developed the offensive, but slowly. The White Guards stubbornly fought back, counterattacked. They looked for gaps in the battle formations, threw their cavalry into them. In addition, the Red command feared for their open flanks and waited for the group advancing in the Perekop direction to achieve success. By the evening of August 27, a group of Reds in the Melitopol direction reached the Ivanovka - Nizhnie Serogozy - Novaya Aleksandrovka line. At this point, three days were stubborn battles with White, who tried to seize the initiative. The Latvian division, reinforced by the 15th division, was advancing on Perekop. The Reds advanced slowly and by August 27 they reached the village of Magdalinovka. The famous Latvian rifle division was greatly weakened in battles and lost its former power.

Against the left flank of Blucher's group, the Whites of the 27th concentrated a strike group in the Demyanovka area, which included the Kornilov, 6th Infantry and 1st Cavalry Divisions. The group was led by the head of the Kornilov division, Skoblin. The right flank of the Reds (Sablin's cavalry) was opposed by the 2nd Cavalry Division, in the center was a separate cavalry brigade. The white command tried to cover the flanks of the enemy, who was breaking through to Melitopol. Wrangel and Kutepov considered the situation very alarming. In response, Blucher strengthened his left flank (the 52nd Division was badly battered in previous battles and was small in number). Sablin's cavalry was transferred there by forced march.

On August 21, the Reds began an offensive on the eastern flank. In the center, the infantry of the 13th Soviet Army captured Bolshoi Tokmak. But the Reds could not break through further. Kutepov's 1st Army Corps and Morozov's Don Brigade fought to the death. The villages passed from hand to hand. The Red Army was only able to push the enemy a little. Crimean journalist A. Valentinov recalled:

What our troops did was not even heroism, but something supernatural. The Drozdovites reached their climax. Under hurricane fire, they attacked in formation. Each shell pulled 10-15 people out of the chain. And every time after the break, the command "ace, two, in step!" The 1st Corps fired 40 shells a week. The Bolshevik is five times bigger ... "

The losses on both sides were great. But the White Guards resisted, again threw the enemy back. This allowed Wrangel to remove the Kornilovskaya and 6th Infantry Divisions, and then the Barbovich's cavalry corps from the eastern flank, throwing troops to the west.

Taking advantage of the fact that the whites had transferred part of their forces to the western flank and weakened their positions in the northeastern sector, the Soviet command threw Gorodovikov's 2nd Cavalry Army into the offensive. The 2nd Cavalry Army was able to break through the enemy's front in the Vasilyevka area and was heading for Orlyansk to reach Blucher's group. On August 29, when Blucher's troops in the Seragoz region fought fierce battles with varying success, Gorodovikov's cavalry reached Malaya Beloozerskaya and defeated the Don Infantry Regiment. About 2 km remained between the 60nd Cavalry Army and Blucher's troops. However, the Soviet cavalry, which had not yet recovered from previous battles, moved extremely slowly and did not have time to break through to Blucher's divisions at the peak of their success. On August 30, the White Guards increase the pressure on the left flank of the Blucher group and, after a fierce battle, force the Reds to leave the Lower Seragoz area.


Soviet commander Vasily Konstantinovich Blucher (1890-1938)


White commander, head of the Drozdovskaya division and commander of the 2nd army corps Vladimir Konstantinovich Vitkovsky (1885 - 1978)

Wrangel's army counteroffensive


The cavalry army was at first held back aviation group of General Tkachev. The cavalry was bombed and fired upon from machine guns. Then a group of General Kalinin went to intercept the Reds - the 2nd Don Cavalry Division, a separate brigade, the Don Infantry Regiment and Markovites. The fight lasted all day. The Wrangelites were unable to defeat Gorodovikov's army, but they also did not allow the enemy to break through to help Blucher's divisions. Gorodovikov was forced to withdraw his troops to the northwest, to the village of Novoekaterinovka, in order to put the units in order. Putting a barrier against the red cavalry, Wrangel immediately threw all his forces against the Blucher group.

On August 31, the stubborn battle continued. Without waiting for the approach of the 2nd Cavalry, suffering losses and fearing encirclement, Blucher on September 1 began to withdraw troops to the Kakhovsky bridgehead. There, overhanging the northern flank of the Whites, the 1st Cavalry was also moving. She followed the westward front and began to threaten the enemy's rear. Sablin's cavalry division struck a counter blow and helped Gorodovikov's army to break through to his own. The Kornilovites and Barbovich's cavalry were pushed back. On September 2, Gorodovikov's cavalry at Kakhovka united with the 2st Infantry Division. Attacked by the enemy, the Perekop group of Reds rolled back to the Kakhovsky bridgehead.

The 2nd Cavalry was now only nominally an "army": after two August battles, only 9 thousand men remained from 1,5 thousand. It was taken to the reserve for replenishment. Gorodovikov was removed from command and returned under the command of Budyonny to the 1st Cavalry (headed the 6th Cavalry Division). The 1st Cavalry was headed by Philip Mironov. He was an experienced commander. Don Cossack by origin, veteran of wars with Japan and Germany. After the October Revolution, he supported the Bolsheviks and became one of the first holders of the Order of the Red Banner.


In addition to the remnants of the 1st Cavalry in reserve, in the Kakhovsky fortified area there were troops of 4 rifle divisions and one cavalry brigade. Despite the superiority of the Reds in the Kakhov area and the powerful defense of the enemy, Wrangel ordered a counteroffensive. The white command hoped that the Reds were psychologically broken by failure, and on the shoulders of the retreating they planned to develop an offensive. Destroy a large enemy grouping near the Dnieper, and then advance north. On the assault on Kakhovka went a group of General Vitkovsky, brought up to 7 thousand bayonets and sabers, reinforced by a detachment of tanks and armored cars. Tanks on the civil war front were a rare occurrence and bore personal names, like ships and armored trains: "Suvorov", "Kutuzov", "Skobelev", "Ermak", "For Holy Russia".

However, the calculations of the white command for the success of the quick assault were not justified. The Red Army was already quite different. After defeats, the Red Army, as before, did not break down, did not scatter at the first shots. Now the Reds retreated in an organized manner, regrouped, replenished units, brought weapon, ammunition and prepared for new battles. For violations of discipline and order, chieftaincy and partisanism were severely punished. In addition, the Soviet troops were protected by strong fortifications. The Kakhovsky fortified area had three lines of defense: 1) a forward line of 40 km, which consisted of separate trenches and platoon strongpoints reinforced with barbed wire; 2) the main line, 30 km away, was 3-6 km from the front line. It consisted of 2-3 lines of trenches with communication trenches, observation posts, company strongpoints, artillery positions, and infantry shelters. Antipersonnel and anti-tank mines (for the first time in the practice of the Red Army) were installed in the main directions; 3) the bridgehead line of defense, 2 km away, protected the crossings. The Kakhovsky fortified area had strong artillery, including anti-aircraft.

Vitkovsky's troops dealt the main blow along the Perekop-Kakhovka road. Soviet artillery met the White Guards with deadly fire. Multi-row barbed wire obstacles had to be cut with bayonets. There were no scissors for cutting: the French promised, but did not send. The Wrangelites could not break through the barriers even with strong artillery fire. The whites were experiencing a severe lack of ammunition. The shells had to be saved, especially for the British guns (there were no supplies). Attempts to break through the defenses of the Red Army with the help of tanks also did not lead to success. The Red Army men learned to beat enemy tanks, rolling out light guns for direct fire. Two white tanks were hit, two, having broken through the first line of obstacles, got stuck on the second and were captured during a counterattack by the Red Army. The assault lasted 5 days and nights. White's night attacks did not help. The red artillery shot the area well and hit the squares. By September 6, the attacks of the White Guards fizzled out. Having lost up to half of the personnel and 6 tanks, Vitkovsky's group went on the defensive (until September 14, when Wrangel's army went on the last offensive).

Thus, the next operation of the Red Army in the Crimean direction did not lead to the defeat and destruction of Wrangel's army. However, Soviet troops distracted the enemy from the Kuban, where the Ulagaya group was operating. They also defended the strategic Kakhovsky bridgehead, which hung over the enemy and was only 2,5 transitions from Perekop. He tied the forces of the whites, did not allow them to develop an offensive to the east or northeast. In addition, the Reds had complete superiority in human and material resources. The White Guards fought to the limit of their capabilities - human and material. All reorganizations and regroupings were carried out without withdrawing the best units from the front line. The elite divisions of Kutepov's 1st corps (Kornilovskaya, Drozdovskaya, Markovskaya) constantly rushed from one threatened area to another and had practically no rest. In this case, the White Army could have been destroyed by one battle. For the Red Army, temporary setbacks were not decisive. The Reds quickly replenished divisions, constantly building up forces and assets on the Southern Front. At the end of September, the 1st Cavalry of Budyonny was sent against Wrangel's army.


British tank Mark V release 1919 or early 1920, captured by the Red Army from the whites on the Kakhovsky bridgehead in 1920
Author:
Photos used:
https://ru.wikipedia.org/, http://militera.lib.ru/
Articles from this series:
Smoot. 1920 year

Battle of Rostov
The disaster of white Odessa
How Slashchev Crimea defended
Dono-Manych battle
The death of the Northern Army Miller
Why Western agent Kolchak is turned into a hero and martyr of Russia
The defeat of the army of Denikin in the battle of Tikhorets
How did the Ice Siberian campaign end
The fall of the White Kuban
Agony of White Novorossiysk
The death of the Kuban army
Denikin's resignation
Far Eastern Republic and the Japanese threat
Polish "liberation" campaign in Kiev
Baku “Blitzkrieg” of the Red Army
The battle for Belarus. May operation of the Red Army
War of the Russian Army Wrangel
The first victories of the Wrangel army
The defeat of the 13th Soviet Army in Northern Tavria
Our Kiev!
The battle for Rivne. How Budyonnovtsy smashed the Polish defense
Minsk is ours! The defeat of the Polish army in Belarus
Battle for Lviv. The failure of the Red Army in Galicia
The death of the cavalry group Rednecks
The fierce battle for the Kakhovsky bridgehead
The defeat of the landing group Ulagaya
"Miracle on the Vistula"
How Tukhachevsky destroyed his armies on the Vistula
Battle of Komarov. Defeat of the 1st Cavalry Army
Bukhara Blitzkrieg Frunze
"The danger of Wrangel is becoming enormous ..."
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  1. Ragnar Lodbrok
    Ragnar Lodbrok 4 September 2020 05: 54
    20
    It is not those who, being oppressed, had to take up arms, but those who forced the first to take up arms are to blame for the bloody feud.
    1. Varyag_0711
      Varyag_0711 4 September 2020 07: 33
      23
      Ragnar Lodbrok
      It is not those who, being oppressed, had to take up arms, but those who forced the first to take up arms are to blame for the bloody feud.
      hi My colleague agrees, but the local possessed crustaceans cannot understand this. They here foaming at the mouth are proving (they even cite some mythical "documents" with terrible numbers) that under the tsar and the priest, the people lived just happily, but terrible Bolsheviks came (from abroad, obviously) and spoiled the grandeur with their vile propaganda.
      Otherwise, yes, the bars have never whipped slaves, but only took care so that the poor Orthodox peasants were very well fed, shod, healthy and taught to read ... laughing
      1. Ragnar Lodbrok
        Ragnar Lodbrok 4 September 2020 07: 51
        19
        Alexey, I have not entered into a dialogue with them for a long time, and even more so in a dispute, it is useless! It was not the mundane and tortured people that rose, but the enemies of the throne, which, as you rightly said
        only took care so that the poor Orthodox peasants were very well fed, shod, healthy and taught to read and write

        Here everyone will remain with his own opinion, no one will prove anything to anyone and will not convince ...
        1. apro
          apro 4 September 2020 08: 27
          +7
          Quote: Ragnar Lothbrok
          Here everyone will remain with his own opinion, no one will prove anything to anyone and will not convince ...

          And why persuade them? If they consider it the norm, but you do not ... it is normal to steal, blackmail, moral violence, financial enslavement.
        2. Moskovit
          Moskovit 4 September 2020 16: 30
          +9
          I recently found out such a case. Next door to his dacha in the Tver province:
          Georgy Karlovich Sonn - a participant in the war of 1812, a former lieutenant of the St. Petersburg grenadier regiment, and now a lieutenant colonel, went down in the history of the village as the most cruel landowner.

          The courtyard people hated Sonn and called him "the beast." Sonn's cruelty is still legendary. So, one of them says that he forced a rebellious peasant woman to dig a pond with his bare hands.

          The Sonn family chose to live in Vakhromeevo, setting up their own estate there, and Karacharovo again became a village.

          According to the birth registers of those years, one can see the birth of a large number of illegitimate children among peasant and courtyard girls. Often, newborn children were found thrown on the threshold of a manor house.

          In Karacharovo and Vakhromeevo, many children appeared, red-haired, similar to a master.

          The peasants could no longer tolerate such behavior of the master. On the night of September 21, 1842, in the forest near the village of Suchki, the peasants watched the master returning from the guests and hacked him to death with an ax.
          1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
            Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 4 September 2020 17: 22
            -8
            Quote: Moskovit
            that he forced a rebellious peasant woman to dig a pond with her bare hands.

            I am sure that this made a special impression on you as a summer resident)
            1. Moskovit
              Moskovit 4 September 2020 18: 17
              +8
              But after the 17th year, the landowners did not find it funny. It is clear that it is impossible to dig a pond with your hands, but sending it to earthworks and making it dig with your hands is quite in the spirit of a good bar.
              1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
                Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 4 September 2020 18: 29
                -7
                Quote: Moskovit
                but sending them to earthworks and making them dig with their hands is quite in the spirit of a good bar.

                Yes, in order to build 3 lines of defense on the Kakhovsky bridgehead, the Reds drove (well, that is, 'sent to earthworks') the neighboring peasants.
                In general, not a single government in agrarian Russia did not stand on ceremony with the peasants)
              2. Sergey Oreshin
                Sergey Oreshin 4 September 2020 19: 50
                -1
                In fact, serfdom in Russia was abolished in 1861. And in the conditional 1913, the former landowner could not force any peasant to dig a pond for him just like that. And he could not rape a single peasant woman - for this one could go to prison with the deprivation of all rights of the state. What do the events of the times of Nicholas I have to do with the Civil War?
                1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
                  Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 5 September 2020 09: 13
                  -2
                  Quote: Sergey Oreshin
                  What do the events of the times of Nicholas I have to do with the Civil War?

                  Absolutely none. A friend shared local history information from his summer cottage village)
                  1. Sergey Oreshin
                    Sergey Oreshin 5 September 2020 14: 08
                    +1
                    But now I read some comments, and I have a persistent doubt that some commentators seriously believe that in 1917 the humiliated and raped serfs started a war against the serf landlords))
                    1. Catfish
                      Catfish 5 September 2020 17: 52
                      -1
                      But what the fuck is a war - with an ax on a makitra, but set fire to the house, and then to hard labor. That's all their "peasant wars". Well, when a big godfather begins to organize gangs, then you have to call such titans as Prince Suvorov-Rymnitsky, because at that time dichlorvos against locusts was not invented, or what Tukhachevsky used at one time when the peasants began a war ((against the landlords serfdom)), against the Soviet regime. laughing
                2. boris epstein
                  boris epstein 5 September 2020 16: 47
                  +2
                  Accumulated over the years. Razin, Pugachev, Bulavin, Bolotnikov ... And these are the biggest. "Years go by, and meanwhile the terrible score grows invisibly." (AS Pushkin). There were literate and honest people among the tsarist officials. The comrade (as the deputy was then called) of the Minister of Internal Affairs of the Russian Empire, Prince Lopukhin and General of the Gendarme Corps Vinogradov in 1907 presented the tsar with a memorandum of 15 points and warned that if at least half of them were not implemented, in 10 years a socialist revolution was inevitable. Nicholas II delivered a resolution: "Leave without consequences." 10 years have passed ...
                  1. Sergey Oreshin
                    Sergey Oreshin 5 September 2020 16: 57
                    +1
                    So after all, the realities of Russia at the beginning of the 20th century and Russia at the beginning of the 19th were different and significantly!
      2. Diana Ilyina
        Diana Ilyina 4 September 2020 11: 56
        12
        Varyag_0711 (Alexey)
        Otherwise, yes, the bars never whipped slaves, but only took care so that the poor Orthodox peasants were very well fed, shod, healthy and taught to read ... laughing
        Bravo Alexey good hi love ! Only you forgot to mention that the bars were not averse to posting some kind of smarter servant in the hayloft, and then drinking coffee on the terrace to the crunch of a French baguette. Sugar, not life.
        Only now I have not seen any of the monarchs on their heads, who would represent themselves in the role of a slave. For some reason, everyone thinks they are bars. I can hardly imagine that Lieutenant Teterin, Olgovich, Soldier and others like them would sleep and see how the master had their daughters, and they themselves were flogged in the stable for arrears.
        By the way, the current situation in the Russian Federation is practically a copy of what the whites fought for.
        And yet, no offense will be said, but I have heard many times compliments from men (both locals and visitors) to women southerners, they say there is no such flower garden in central Russia. As one of the versions that I heard, where serfdom existed, pretty girls were almost disfigured on purpose, so that God forbid the master would not covet. True or not, but the fact that in the southern regions of Russia there are more beautiful women, many men claim. But about that, not for me to judge, I say only what I heard myself from men.
        1. Varyag_0711
          Varyag_0711 4 September 2020 12: 08
          +4
          Dianochka love , glad to see in any century!
          True or not, but the fact that in the southern regions of Russia there are more beautiful women, many men claim. But about that, not for me to judge, I say only what I heard myself from men.
          I am afraid to incur the wrath of the beautiful half of our site, but I cannot but confirm your words! The fact is that, due to the nature of the activity, I often had to visit Moscow, Voronezh, Belgorod, Kursk, Volgograd (I always want to call it Stalingrad), Krasnodar, Kharkov (until 2014), etc. So I'm completely ready to confirm your words. Yes, beautiful women are found everywhere, but not nearly as often as in the South of Russia (Rostov Region, Krasnodar Territory and Ukraine, whatever one may say, but you cannot argue against the truth). But as for Moscow, there are all, well, almost all beautiful girls and women, either newcomers, or Muscovites in the first or second generation, i.e. newcomers too! And this is the true truth, I tell you as a connoisseur of female beauty!
          Once again, my respect, Diana hi love , I am sincerely glad to see such a rare guest on VO love !

          P.S. Forgot to add. They don't know how to cook better than in the South almost anywhere, the best borscht is cooked in Ukraine and in the Rostov region! What is cooked in Moscow and is called borscht (red) or cabbage soup is simply not possible even to take in your mouth. So here, too, southern women will give everyone a head start! True, they say (I've never been to myself) that Siberia and the Far East are not far behind in terms of cooking and beauty, but again these are the descendants of free Cossacks in their bulk, and hence the traditions!
        2. Krasnodar
          Krasnodar 4 September 2020 12: 30
          -3
          Diana, this is from the mixing of blood, typical for the South of Russia. And in Nikolaev there are still very beautiful girls, because at one time, due to the lack of women there, the empress decided to take prostitutes from all over the empire there - as the Ukrainian legend says, at least)).
        3. BAI
          BAI 4 September 2020 13: 41
          +1
          Tula is convinced that the most beautiful girls are in Tula, because by order of Peter 1 they were taken to Tula specifically for breeding in order to support local gunsmiths. (The Tula legend, I don’t know how true it is).
        4. BAI
          BAI 4 September 2020 14: 00
          +4
          The topic is good. And that's all about wars and wars. We must also talk about women.
          1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
            Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 4 September 2020 17: 20
            -3
            Well, yes, yes ...

            'And our girl
            In a soldier's greatcoat
            Burning Kakhovka goes ... '
            ©
      3. Sergey Oreshin
        Sergey Oreshin 4 September 2020 17: 03
        -4
        In fact, serfdom was abolished long before the Civil War, in 1861. And long before the start of the Civil War, former landowners lost the right to flog, beat and rape their former serfs. So why are there arguments about Russia at the beginning of the 19th century - it is not clear.
        Shl. Hereditary nobles made up no more than 15% of the participants in the White movement. And landlords (i.e. people who retained their land ownership by the 17th year) - no more than 7-8%
  2. The leader of the Redskins
    The leader of the Redskins 4 September 2020 06: 17
    -9
    Crumpled about this battle (to be honest, I had no idea that it was so bloody) was mentioned in the book "Weapons of Victory", about the people who stood at the origins of Soviet tank building. It indicated that it was then that tanks were captured from which our "Freedom Fighter Comrade Lenin" was trying to copy.
    1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
      Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 4 September 2020 07: 38
      +7
      Quote: Leader of the Redskins
      It indicated that it was then that tanks were captured from which our "Freedom Fighter Comrade Lenin" was trying to copy.

      This is unlikely, Chief. The Reds captured 5 Mk V in varying degrees of suitability. Agree, it is difficult to clone Renault FT-17 from the British "male")
      1. cost
        cost 4 September 2020 09: 38
        +7
        Nazariy mistakenly confuses "Odessa trophies" with "Kakhov's" ones.
        1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
          Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 4 September 2020 10: 00
          +6
          It is strange that Samsonov did not include this famous photograph with the Red Army soldiers, who were captured on the bridgehead, posing against the background and in armor. This tank later participated in the victory parade in Bolshaya Kakhovka under the new name "Moskvich-Proletarian"
          1. Tochilka
            Tochilka 4 September 2020 12: 34
            +2
            this is the name of the tank Mk V with machine gun armament, the so-called. "female".
            "Ricardo" is the name of the installed engine.
            1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
              Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 4 September 2020 12: 51
              +3
              This is how the Mk 5 was called the 'ricardo tank'. For example, Comrade Voroshilov is at his disposal to transfer 14 tanks in 1938 to Lugansk, Smolensk, etc.
        2. The leader of the Redskins
          The leader of the Redskins 4 September 2020 11: 05
          +2
          I will not say anything. Maybe I'm confusing, maybe the authors of the ARTISTIC book pulled the facts by the ears. I read it about thirty-five years ago!))
          1. cost
            cost 4 September 2020 13: 22
            +5
            And again the cons. Well, all right, he messed up above. With whom does not happen. But now for what? For admitting a mistake? Not pretty
            1. The leader of the Redskins
              The leader of the Redskins 4 September 2020 14: 26
              +3
              And you don't have your own personal "minusers" yet?)) So you are not in trend! laughing
  3. parusnik
    parusnik 4 September 2020 06: 22
    +8
    The future Soviet Marshal L.A. Govorov in August near the village of Serogozy, during defensive battles in the Kakhovka area, received a shrapnel wound in the leg, and in September, in a battle near Antonovka, a bullet wound to the arm. And in 1921, for great courage and courage shown during the Perekop-Chongar operation, Leonid Aleksandrovich was awarded the Order of the Red Banner.
    1. Sergey Oreshin
      Sergey Oreshin 4 September 2020 16: 57
      +1
      And in 1919 Govorov fought against the Reds in the ranks of the Kolchakites
      1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
        Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 4 September 2020 18: 00
        +1
        I will never, apparently, understand the logic of the commentators. Why did you get the minuses ?? For the indisputable fact that the Govorov brothers served with Kolchak?
        1. parusnik
          parusnik 4 September 2020 18: 57
          +4
          For example, Timofei Timofeevich Shapkin, Lieutenant General of the Red Army, died in March 1943 from an illness from January 1918 to March 1920 he fought in the Volunteer Army.
          1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
            Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 4 September 2020 19: 30
            -3
            Quote: parusnik
            So what?

            Never mind! Why is the comrade's remark about Govorov's Kolchak past minus? Did he lie? Or just lovers of a refined story don't like it?
            1. parusnik
              parusnik 5 September 2020 07: 16
              +2
              And what has lied to? The fact that the Govorov brothers fought at Kolchak, it was not hidden even in Soviet times ... There was no secret ...
            2. mat-vey
              mat-vey 6 September 2020 09: 07
              0
              Quote: Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
              Never mind! Why is the comrade's remark about Govorov's Kolchak past minus? Did he lie? Or just lovers of a refined story don't like it?

              Quote: Sergey Oreshin
              As the ancient people said there - "to betray in time - not to betray, but to foresee"

              Well, how would this subtext immediately shine through ... that's why they appreciated it ...
          2. Sergey Oreshin
            Sergey Oreshin 5 September 2020 09: 09
            -1
            As the ancient people said there - "to betray in time - not to betray, but to foresee"
        2. Sergey Oreshin
          Sergey Oreshin 4 September 2020 19: 45
          0
          And I don't pay attention to them)) If they write a refutation, then I enter into a discussion. And if they just put a "minus" - and figs with them, as they say))
  4. apro
    apro 4 September 2020 06: 50
    0
    And this is against the background of the Polish company ... nevertheless, the Soviet government chose the right priorities. By sacrificing on the Polish front, it solved the problems with White. But at the expense of a tough draw. But White was more dangerous.
  5. Olgovich
    Olgovich 4 September 2020 07: 05
    10 th
    Blucher vs. Witkovsky and Barbowicz


    The latter won 100%: they lived a long (Vitkovsky - almost a hundred years), a happy life - held in high esteem and respect, with their wives and children. the first one was beaten to death by feet, trampled as a person by comrades in the struggle, wives were shot, children were in the house ...

    However, for what he fought, yes ...
    1. The comment was deleted.
      1. Ka-52
        Ka-52 4 September 2020 08: 10
        -7
        As for Blucher, he paid well deservedly.

        that is, he still turned out to be a Japanese spy? belay Opensource projects ....
        By the way, a "lover" of history, can you tell me how Robspierre, Danton and other leaders of the French Revolution ended up?

        and this is a warning to any lovers of revolution. She is cruel to her parents and children - she devours them first. That's just a rake they are so tempting
        1. Sugar Honeyovich
          Sugar Honeyovich 4 September 2020 08: 21
          +6
          Quote: Ka-52
          this is a warning to any lovers of revolution

          And equally to those who inform them ...
      2. Olgovich
        Olgovich 4 September 2020 11: 58
        -6
        Quote: Varyag_0711
        That sick, did not get drunk in the morning?

        я in general I don't drink, my dear. Envy, yes.
        Quote: Varyag_0711
        The life of a traitor, is it your honor and respect?

        He was never recognized as a traitor by anyone: a front-line soldier, comfrey, wounded, awarded the St. George's arms for personal bravery and the Order of St. George and other orders for the defense of the Fatherland from the German invaders.
        He served Russia to the end.
        Quote: Varyag_0711
        was an ardent enemy of Russia

        Thank you great. power with RUSSIA, then do not confuse: Russia has been and is a THOUSAND YEARS already, and yours as it was not.
        Quote: Varyag_0711
        As for Blucher, he paid well deservedly.

        So I am about the same thing: what I fought for (lawlessness, bestial cruelty, seizure of power from the people, etc.), AT THAT (kicked to death, after death ... recognized as a spy) - and ran into
        Quote: Varyag_0711
        By the way, a "lover" of history, can you tell me how Robspierre, Danton and other leaders of the French Revolution ended up?

        And who is here ... Robespierre? lol

        With the surname "blue" who? A slacker who has not worked for a day gigolo on content merchants? belay lol , ascribing to himself Two Georges?
        1. Varyag_0711
          Varyag_0711 4 September 2020 12: 28
          +8
          Olgovich (Andrey)
          I do not drink at all
          Are you sick? The fact is that we have a man (you really do not belong to those), who does not drink at all, causes bewilderment, to put it mildly. Either sick or drunk in a string. You just need to know how to drink so that it is tasteful, without brute force and harm to others. And a man who doesn't drink with everything is not a Russian man ... But what about a heart-to-heart conversation with friends? Or what, how can your American masters run to soul analysts? No, it's not ours. That is why, you will never be ours, we will not accept such.
          Envy, yes.
          I do not envy the spiritually sick, and indeed I have never envied anyone in my life!
          He served Russia to the end.
          It depends on what you mean by this term, your skins, red and others like them, too, like "served" Russia, under the German swastika ... laughing
          Thank you great. power with RUSSIA, then do not confuse: Russia has been and is a THOUSAND YEARS already, and yours as it was not.
          So yours will not be, what the bazaar is about. We will all die sooner or later. The only question is that yours will remain a black spot on the body of Russia, and ours, as they were heroes, will remain so, despite your squeals from under the plinth!
          So I am about the same thing: what I fought for (lawlessness, bestial cruelty, seizure of power from the people, etc.)
          Do not burst from your useless pathos, the people did not have any power under the tsar, and the people did not have it under the temporary workers. There is no need here to start your rotten farce about UCH. A bullshit for the degenerates who believe it. UCH, this is a complete analogue of the State Duma of the Russian Federation now, which the whole people allegedly chose, but which the same people hate most of all!
          So yours once again do not dance, but fart into a puddle liquid!
          1. Olgovich
            Olgovich 4 September 2020 12: 58
            -9
            Quote: Varyag_0711
            Are you sick? The fact is that we have a man (you really do not belong to such), who at all does not drink, causes confusion, to put it mildly. ... You just need to know how to drink so that it is tasteful, without brute force and harm to others... And a man who doesn't drink with everything is not a Russian man ..... But what about a heart-to-heart conversation with friends? Or what, how can your American masters run to soul analysts? No, it's not ours. That is why, you will never be ours, we will not accept such.

            This is the reasoning of an alcohol-dependent person who does not represent that it is possible to live fully and interestingly (and much more) without alcohol.

            They made a Russian man an alcoholic yours "craftsmen" - leaders - the first place in the world for alcohol, tobacco smoking - these are your "achievements.

            BEFORE you, it was the drinker who was considered a lost man.

            Quote: Varyag_0711
            So yours will not be, what the bazaar is about. We will all die sooner or later. The only question is that yours will remain a black spot on the body of Russia, and ours, as they were heroes, will remain so, despite your squeals from under the plinth!

            Ours were 1000 years old, are and will be-Russian people.

            Yours already no and never will be.

            Quote: Varyag_0711
            and ours, as they were heroes, will remain so


            Yeah, this is about your GV heroes Prosecutor General of the USSR OFFICIALLY and stated on the courts: “Filth, stinking patal, dung, stinking heap of garbage, filthy dogs, damned reptile,
            scorched crooks, vile creatures, crooks, bandits, arrogant, despicable adventurers "
            ... Then they were ... rehabilitated. So WHO are they, huh? belay lol
            Quote: Varyag_0711
            yours farts in a puddle liquid!

            This is how alcohol acts - extremely destructive and harmful, as we see from your phrases. yes
            1. The comment was deleted.
              1. Olgovich
                Olgovich 4 September 2020 13: 54
                -9
                Quote: Varyag_0711
                we will never understand each other! Russians are alien "inferences" not Russian! We have with you, clearly opposite views on life. As for me, so "only teetotalers and ulcers don't drink for free."

                You are accustomed to seeing DRINKERS since childhood and consider it the norm.

                But know that BEFORE yours, sobriety was the norm.

                Valentin Rasputin has a scene where two old women argue that: you can't meet a drinker before, but now .... sober.

                DMN Uglov (lived 104 years) in 1981:
                from 1940 to 1980 the population of our country increased by 35%, then consumption alcoholic "drinks" increased by 770%That is, more than 20 times... Thus, the growth of per capita consumption of alcoholic "drinks" in our country over the laste forty years 20 times the growth of the country's population.

                So your behavior is not the norm, but the anti-norm, which has become .... "the norm"
                1. The comment was deleted.
                  1. Olgovich
                    Olgovich 4 September 2020 14: 17
                    -6
                    Quote: Varyag_0711
                    Your cuckoo is definitely not all right. How did you determine what I saw since childhood? What, are you all-seeing?

                    belay You YOURSELF (see above) told that without alcohol you and .... you cannot speak normally
                    Quote: Varyag_0711
                    And why would a Moldovan tell me how to live in Russia? Did the sick person confuse anything?

                    1. WHERE are you ... "instructions" how to live?
                    belay
                    This is useless already.

                    2.t.s. "states" "moldavia", "ukraine", belorussia "and so on in the RUSSIAN lands, you, Antrussians, arranged.

                    Before you, it was RUSSIA.

                    Got it, no?
                2. The comment was deleted.
                  1. Liam
                    Liam 4 September 2020 15: 26
                    -2
                    In the same place ..

                    Thus, it has been proven once again that the assertion that the problem of drunkenness and associated mortality appeared in Russia in the second half of the 20th century. does not correspond to reality. For at least two centuries, the severity of the problem increased and decreased, but the problem did not disappear at all. All this time, the Russian public knew about the existence of this problem and, with varying degrees of activity, tried to solve it.
                    1. The comment was deleted.
                  2. Olgovich
                    Olgovich 4 September 2020 16: 00
                    -6
                    Quote: Liam
                    ...

                    p


                    ... In the most "drunken" years of tsarist Russia, they drank 4-5 times less than now "
                    Source: ". Alcohol abuse in the Russian Federation: socio-economic consequences and countermeasures." The report was approved by the Council of the Public Chamber of the Russian Federation on May 13, 2009. Moscow, 2009.



                    Demoscope:
                    we have developed about such a picture.
                    -In pu, these heaps of assumptions are "approximately" from .... Max Planck Institute for Demographic Research (MPIDR), Rostoc

                    But the recognition of the MOST owls of power, it was shallow:
                    In 1925, 18% of those drinking under 16,6 years old, in our time, according to research - to 95% ("Young Communist", 1975, No. 9, pp. 102-103).

                    If in 1925 there were 43% of the various categories of workers who were teetotallers, now they make up, apparently, 1-2%, habitual drunkards and alcoholics in 1925 was 9,6%, in 1973 - there were already 30% of them (Discussion "The Economy of Socialism", Novosibirsk, 1973)


                    ,
                    according to scientific evidence, we lose about million person per year
                    DMN Angles 1981
                    etc.


                    Got it, no?
            2. Deniska999
              Deniska999 4 September 2020 17: 52
              +2
              But what's the problem, they wouldn't drink then. Since everyone was so spiritual)
          2. Deniska999
            Deniska999 4 September 2020 17: 48
            +4
            You know, although I have nothing against alcohol, but if you do not have a heart-to-heart conversation without alcohol, then this is strange.
      3. Sergey Oreshin
        Sergey Oreshin 4 September 2020 17: 05
        -2
        Something completely incomprehensible, who then are the heroes for you? You don't consider Vitkovsky a hero, but neither do Blucher (since you write that "he paid well deservedly"). So who are "yours" then?
    2. Ka-52
      Ka-52 4 September 2020 07: 44
      -7
      wives-shot

      Emnip shot their first wife. The latter received only a term in the camps and survived. Children are really all in orphanages. This is a trifle compared to the great revolution, as many here believe
      1. apro
        apro 4 September 2020 08: 03
        +6
        Quote: Ka-52
        This is a trifle compared to the great revolution, as many here believe

        Oh again, a child's tear. Under this little blade. You can do a lot of things. Scammers always use it.
      2. Olgovich
        Olgovich 4 September 2020 12: 00
        -7
        Quote: Ka-52
        Emnip shot their first wife.

        And the second too. Therefore, it is said "wives"
    3. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
      Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 4 September 2020 07: 56
      15
      Quote: Olgovich
      happy life - held in high esteem and respect, with your wives and children

      Yes, yes, Barbovich ended his happy life in some kind of bedbug for refugees near Munich. Homeless, sick, forgotten. Doubtful happiness, Olgych.
      1. Olgovich
        Olgovich 4 September 2020 12: 11
        -9
        Quote: Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
        ... Homeless, sick, forgotten. Doubtful happiness, Olgych.

        They die sick, I note all old people. Died surrounded by family is ... "forgotten"? belay

        Compare with the blue mentioned above, yes.

        I lived a long life under my ideals and adhering to them. I think this is happiness.



        Quote: Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
        Barbovich ended his happy life in some kind of bedbug for refugees near Munich

        Life in such a "bug" 1947 years would have called many MILLIONS (you understand where)
        1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
          Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 4 September 2020 12: 19
          +2
          Well I do not know. Others were rewarded - some exile and life without a homeland, others a bullet or camp cliff from their own.
          1. Olgovich
            Olgovich 4 September 2020 12: 30
            11 th
            Quote: Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
            ... Others were rewarded - some exile and life without a homeland, others a bullet or camp cliff from their own.

            Do you think that Blucher had a homeland? No.

            But Barbovich and Vitkovsky had it.
            1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
              Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 4 September 2020 16: 12
              -5
              Yeah, I see - you have nice opponents here, Olgych. Boorish, aggressive blue-blouses 'in dusty helmets'. Anything expensive. wassat
  6. Aviator_
    Aviator_ 4 September 2020 07: 58
    +4
    Multi-row barbed wire obstacles had to be cut with bayonets.

    Are the whites armed with Austrian rifles with flat bayonets? And isn't it domestic mosinki with needle?
  7. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
    Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 4 September 2020 08: 02
    +9
    The Kakhovsky fortified area had three lines of defense:


    if I am not mistaken, Karbyshev was the fortifier. It was quite possible to mention his name.
    1. The comment was deleted.
      1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
        Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 4 September 2020 09: 28
        +6
        Quote: Rich
        The Red Army first used anti-tank mines


        it is in the text:
        and anti-tank (for the first time in the practice of the Red Army) mines;


        but about the high-explosive flamethrowers of the ATP, which horrified the white infantry, I did not find.
  8. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
    Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 4 September 2020 08: 42
    +8
    As F. Clausewitz used to say? Don't fight one enemy for too long?
    The Reds have learned to fight. And Kakhovka was, perhaps, the quintessence. Anti-tank tactics, fortifications, flamethrowers (!), Minefields, etc. - Western front of the First World War in miniature. As for the glorification of the tactical genius of white warlords, then, I suppose, it is slightly exaggerated. The same Barbovich Mironov in November 20 th "threw" an elementary Makhnovist technique, substituting Semyon Karetnik under the machine guns.
  9. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
    Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 4 September 2020 09: 05
    +2
    Having lost up to half of the personnel and 6 tanks,


    Nine tanks. Four tanks "for the inability to take out" (as reported to the headquarters of the Law Firm) were blown up by the Reds. As well as both captured white armored cars.
  10. BAI
    BAI 4 September 2020 09: 54
    +9
    The Drozdovites reached their climax. Under hurricane fire, they attacked in formation. Each shell pulled 10-15 people out of the chain. And every time after the break, the command "ace, two, in step!"

    A model of incompetent command, which Slashchev has always opposed. Or an illustration of the expression: "The feat of some is a consequence of the stupidity of others."
    1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
      Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 4 September 2020 10: 35
      10
      I agree that this bravura journalist pulp speaks not of the valor of the Drozdovites, but of the idiocy of their command. I suppose the blizzard about how the Drozdovites "chopped the wire" with bayonets of mosinoks (!!!! this, damn it, how ???), the author also learned from "the Crimean journalist A. Valentinov."
  11. iouris
    iouris 4 September 2020 11: 16
    -3
    So where did Blucher (Vasily Konstantinovich) come from and where did he go?
  12. Sergey Oreshin
    Sergey Oreshin 4 September 2020 17: 08
    +2
    Another weak abstract, hastily concocted from Wikipedia and a couple of brochures. The author, isn't it a shame to pass off such a hack as a serious article on military history?
    1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
      Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 4 September 2020 18: 47
      +1
      Well, this scribbling does not pretend to be serious, I think) Just a reply to the centenary.
  13. Sergey Oreshin
    Sergey Oreshin 5 September 2020 00: 14
    0
    Still, some commentators ... how to put it mildly ... are extremely strange.
    It seems to be an article about the hostilities between the Red Army and the RA in August 1920. As they say, there is something to discuss, both military aspects and political aspects of that time
    But some "comrades" begin to reflect on the plight of the serfs and cruel landowners of the times of Alexander the First and Nicholas the First. So I just want to ask them: what does all this have to do with the Civil War that began in 1917, i.e. 56 years later (!! two full-fledged generations have passed, the third generation has already been born !!)? No, of course you can speculate about the position of the rank and file, purchases and lackeys in pre-Mongol Russia and, if you wish, to deduce the premises of 1917 from Yaroslav the Wise's "Russian Pravda" - but what's the point?
    It seems like not a shkolota already, you must understand
  14. dmmyak40
    dmmyak40 7 September 2020 22: 03
    +1
    Monument to "Red Chapaev" - Oka Ivanovich Gorodovikov in Elista.