Military Review

AWACS aircraft Xian KJ-600 for the PLA Navy

65

The alleged appearance of the KJ-600 aircraft in an unofficial infographic. Photo Twitter.com/RupprechtDeino


For several years, China has been developing a promising long-range radar surveillance and control aircraft, the Xian KJ-600. Until recently, a flying laboratory was tested with the main elements of such an aircraft, and now a full-fledged prototype has come out for flight tests. In recent days, several photographs of this car at the airfield and in the air have been publicly available.

From laboratory to prototype


Work on the AWACS aircraft started at the beginning of the XNUMXs as part of a larger aircraft carrier construction program. fleet... Based on the results of preliminary studies, it was decided to build an aircraft of the type of foreign models - the American E-2 or the Soviet Yak-44.

In 2001, the JZY-7 flying laboratory was built on the basis of the Xian Y-01 serial military transport aircraft. It was intended for full-scale testing of layout and other design solutions. On a standard glider, a variety of electronic equipment (or its mock-ups) in different configurations was installed. In particular, various versions of the radar antenna and its fairing were worked out. By 2012, the car had acquired its familiar appearance with a mushroom antenna fairing.

The experience of ground and flight tests of the JZY-01 was used in the design of the full-fledged KJ-600 aircraft. The main developer of the machine was Xi'an Aircraft Industrial Corporation. For unknown reasons, the design was seriously delayed, and the construction of the future prototype "Kunjing-600" began only in the recent past.


Experienced Xian JZY-01. Photo Bmpd.livejournal.com

In 2018, a mock-up of this aircraft was seen at a research and training facility near Wuhan, imitating a real aircraft carrier. Probably, at that time the features of operating a rather large aircraft in a limited deck space were studied.

At the end of August 2020, foreign media published satellite images of one of the Chinese airfields, where an aircraft of a characteristic appearance was present. A few days later, new photographs were published showing this car in the air, accompanied by a backup aircraft. There are no official data on the tests started yet.

Known details


The KJ-600 is based on the serial Y-7 transporter. Improvements to the basic design are associated both with the installation of new electronic equipment and with the proposed basing on an aircraft carrier. In particular, a folding wing structure was introduced to accommodate equipment on the hangar deck, and a landing hook was installed in the tail.

The new aircraft is a high-wing aircraft with two engine nacelles under the wing and a characteristic multi-fin tail. On the fuselage behind the center section there is a characteristic radome radome. Whether the fairing is movable or fixed is not clear yet.


Satellite image of the airfield where the KJ-600 is being tested. Photo by 卫星 图像 发烧 员 / Weibo

Earlier it was reported that the KJ-600 will receive two WJ-6C turboprop engines that have been upgraded. JL-4 XNUMX-blade variable pitch propellers were also offered. With such a power plant, the aircraft will not be able to independently take off from the springboard of the flight deck. To lift into the air, he will need the help of a catapult.

Foreign sources mention that the "Kunjing-600" can receive a pulse-Doppler radar with an active phased array of its own Chinese design. Mention is made of the possibility of using several AFARs with simultaneous coverage in all directions. At the same time, there is an opinion about the use of a rotating antenna. This version can be confirmed by available photographs of an unpainted prototype, in which the radar fairing has a characteristic appearance.

It is expected that the new Chinese radar will be able to detect large ground or surface objects at ranges of up to 600 km. For air targets, the maximum range will be 450 km. The station's ability to detect stealth objects is still unknown.

Wingspan KJ-600 - no more than 30 m, length - approx. 25 m. The maximum take-off weight is estimated at 30 tons. The aircraft will be able to patrol for 3-4 at a speed of 400-450 km / h. Ferry range - up to 2500 km. It should be borne in mind that actual performance may differ significantly from existing estimates.


Larger image of equipment. Photo by 卫星 图像 发烧 员 / Weibo

Goals and objectives


The KJ-600 is designed for long-term patrols at a distance from the aircraft carrier strike group and monitoring the air and surface situation. The data must be processed and issued to various control points, primarily shipboard. Perhaps the KJ-600 will be able to independently control the actions of the deck aviation.

An aircraft with a radar can significantly increase the situational awareness of the AUG. With its help, the detection lines of enemy ships or aircraft can be taken out at least 500-600 km from the aircraft carrier. With the help of 3-4 of these aircraft, the aircraft carrier will be able to organize a constant watch with an overview of a given area and the timely identification of all possible threats at long ranges.

The promising KJ-600 will become the first carrier-based AWACS aircraft in the PLA naval forces. Now these tasks are solved using Russian-made Ka-31 helicopters with a surface target detection range of up to 250 km and a patrol duration of up to 2-2,5 hours.

AWACS aircraft Xian KJ-600 for the PLA Navy

KJ-600 in flight. Photo Twitter.com/RupprechtDeino

In terms of its characteristics and target capabilities, the KJ-600 will have to significantly exceed the available helicopters - with understandable consequences for the combat effectiveness of the fleet. The serial "Kunjing-600" will take over all the main tasks of the radar patrol, but are unlikely to completely replace the helicopter technology.

Future project


Earlier, foreign sources mentioned that the first experienced KJ-600 will be able to take off in 2019-20. In general, these predictions came true - flight tests began in August 2020 or earlier. In the near future, the first stage of testing and refinement using land airfields will continue.

Deck tests can only begin in the distant future. For takeoff, the Kunjing-600 needs a catapult, but the PLA Navy's combat aircraft carriers do not have such equipment. The first carrier of the electromagnetic catapult will be the promising Type 003 ship, which is still under construction. It will be ready to receive aircraft no earlier than 2022-23.

Deck tests will also take some time, and only after that the KJ-600 will receive a recommendation for adoption. Serial production and service are expected to start in the middle of the decade. For several years after that, the Navy will be able to receive the required number of aircraft.


American AWACS aircraft E-2C Hawkeye. Photo by US Navy

According to various estimates, one aircraft carrier "Type 003" requires up to four AWACS aircraft of the new KJ-600 type. So far it is known about the construction of only one such ship, and therefore "Kunjing-600" will not go into a large series. In the future, it is possible to launch the construction of new aircraft carriers - and their aviation group, probably, will also include radar surveillance aircraft. However, in this case, the total number of such equipment will not be large.

Among the leaders


To date, the PLA has managed to build a fairly numerous and efficient group of AWACS aircraft, including equipment of several types and generations. However, so far we are talking only about land-based aviation. The first project of a carrier-based aircraft of this class has already reached flight tests of a full-fledged prototype, although it is still far from being launched.

It should be recalled that only a few developed countries have an aircraft carrier fleet. In this case, carrier-based AWACS aircraft are even more rare. Only the United States and France have equipment of this class - they use American E-2C / D Hawkeye aircraft. After completing work on its KJ-600, China will enter a narrow circle of owners of unique and useful aircraft.

Thus, in the context of the Kunjing-600 project, we are talking not only about increasing the combat capability of the aircraft carrier fleet, but also about national prestige. China has already shown its ability to build aircraft carriers and is seeking to confirm it with new ships. The same processes are observed in the field of carrier-based fighters and helicopters. And in the foreseeable future, a long-range radar aircraft will become a key industrial achievement in this area. However, the practical results of projects "003" and KJ-600 are still far enough away, and the Chinese specialists will have to work seriously.
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  1. The leader of the Redskins
    The leader of the Redskins 2 September 2020 06: 12 New
    +2
    Thanks to the author. I am used to the fact that the PLA army and its equipment are quite secret and do not often monitor them.
    But thanks to such articles, you learn something new.
    1. Civil
      Civil 2 September 2020 07: 41 New
      +6

      1. Accidental complete resemblance to the YAK-44.
      2. Ukraine has sold the documentation.
      3. Russia has sold the documentation.
      1. Zaurbek
        Zaurbek 2 September 2020 07: 59 New
        +8
        1.just a layout
        2 ... and one size larger and more powerful.
        3.Yak planned with powerful (14tn) theater D-27 progress.
        4.A Chinese has "roots" An-24
        5. About the stuffing and AFAR, for the time being, let's keep quiet.
        1. TermNachTer
          TermNachTer 2 September 2020 13: 47 New
          +1
          D - 27 has died and it will hardly be possible to resume production. He didn't even make it to the episode. There were about 15 in total. 4 were lost in the crash. The only An - 70 is now flying or not is unknown.
      2. Avior
        Avior 2 September 2020 09: 05 New
        +8
        There are similarities, of course.
        Only in your picture is not an airplane, but just a mass and size model, the Yak44 was never built.
        Why the similarity is understandable


        Pay attention to the Chinese tail
        There are no other samples of a carrier-based AWACS aircraft in the world.
        1. Narak-zempo
          Narak-zempo 2 September 2020 22: 35 New
          +2
          And it’s not good for either Hawkeye or Yak.
          And in general, FSE was invented in the Celestial Empire, and all around were barbarians.
      3. SovAr238A
        SovAr238A 2 September 2020 11: 40 New
        +5
        Quote: Civil

        1. Accidental complete resemblance to the YAK-44.
        2. Ukraine has sold the documentation.
        3. Russia has sold the documentation.


        No resemblance.
        Designing did not go beyond the layout, not a single flow chart for the production of even the smallest unit, in principle, did not begin.

        It must be clearly understood that only one pilgrim of this type was and is.
        This is Hawkeye.

        Yak-44 - never existed in principle.
        One layout ...
        1. yehat2
          yehat2 25 September 2020 16: 30 New
          0
          Yak-44 was and flew.
          1. SovAr238A
            SovAr238A 25 September 2020 17: 45 New
            0
            Quote: yehat2
            Yak-44 was and flew.


            Come on? Maybe then tell me when it was?
            1. yehat2
              yehat2 28 September 2020 09: 53 New
              0
              the yak-44 was a ready-made aircraft, its flight suitability, including with a mock antenna, was tested.
              The yak-44E, which we are talking about, was made in a layout, with the installation of the main stuffing of electronics and equipment for saving, and was tested on Kuznetsov. Thus, it has been proven that it can fly and that it works. fully assembled has never flown, but collectively, I believe its performance has been demonstrated. They did not assemble it because they had not yet fully completed take-off and landing on an aircraft carrier, but it was necessary to hurry with testing.
      4. TermNachTer
        TermNachTer 2 September 2020 13: 42 New
        +4
        Did Ukraine have documentation on the Yak-44? KB is located in Russia. The fact that the drawings of the ships and power plants themselves were sold is understandable.
        1. Zaurbek
          Zaurbek 2 September 2020 14: 38 New
          +1
          But An 24 was sold with a license, as well as a license for their theater.
          1. TermNachTer
            TermNachTer 2 September 2020 14: 42 New
            +3
            Well, An - 24 is a purely Kiev development. All drawings and technologies were stored in Kiev, at the Antonov plant. And Yak - 44 is Moscow.
            1. Zaurbek
              Zaurbek 2 September 2020 14: 43 New
              +2
              The USSR also transferred the license and helped with the launch. And An-2 and An24 and An 12 .... An 12 is the basis of China's AWACS.
              1. TermNachTer
                TermNachTer 2 September 2020 16: 38 New
                +2
                I agree, but all of the above is Kiev. Over the years of the so-called independence, Banderlog sold everything for which there was a demand. But Yak - 44, this is a Moscow development, did the people of Kiev have access to this information, in addition to general types, for placing an aircraft on board an aircraft carrier.
                1. yehat2
                  yehat2 25 September 2020 16: 31 New
                  0
                  the plane is not important, the radar is more important. But what was in the 80s is already very outdated.
                  The Chinese machine has nothing to do with the Yak-44, except for a niche application.
                  it has roots in the AN-24 and a mixture of our, American and its own AWACS technologies.
                  the Chinese have more in common with the a-50
                  1. TermNachTer
                    TermNachTer 25 September 2020 17: 06 New
                    -1
                    Well, that Ukraine under the Union produced ground-based radars - NPO Iskra. She continues to rivet 19Ж6, with a different name, such as the latest Bandera development. Where the radar for the Yak-44 was made, I don't even know. Similarity with the An-24,26,32 family? Look at the tail
                    1. yehat2
                      yehat2 28 September 2020 09: 43 New
                      0
                      what about the tail? on the an-24, you can easily put it with 10 planes, that's not the point.
                      1. TermNachTer
                        TermNachTer 28 September 2020 17: 53 New
                        0
                        Don't tell. I’m like in aviation, I even know this word - aerodynamics. And for deck aircraft - this word is doubly important, if not in triplets.
                      2. yehat2
                        yehat2 29 September 2020 09: 10 New
                        0
                        come on, instead of a tail, you can make a whole comb. This will, of course, affect aerodynamics, but not much.
                      3. TermNachTer
                        TermNachTer 29 September 2020 17: 53 New
                        0
                        This affects the alignment of the aircraft and much more, it is no coincidence that all deck AWACS have just such a tail.
                      4. yehat2
                        yehat2 29 September 2020 17: 58 New
                        0
                        if the area remains the same and the tail is about the same, then the centering will change very insignificantly.
                        But the effectiveness of rudders can change a lot.
                      5. TermNachTer
                        TermNachTer 29 September 2020 18: 21 New
                        0
                        And also piping and hydraulic fluid, and everything must be carefully laid along the airframe so that it does not interfere with the other. And the other is stuffed there - my dear mother.
                      6. yehat2
                        yehat2 30 September 2020 09: 19 New
                        0
                        yes, mom will radically change the alignment laughing
                      7. TermNachTer
                        TermNachTer 30 September 2020 17: 41 New
                        0
                        Yes, there the centering is already back because of the antenna. It also gives an "aerodynamic shadow" - that's why the tail is so outlandish.
                      8. yehat2
                        yehat2 30 September 2020 17: 42 New
                        0
                        I understand all this, however, you should admit that the choice for the design of the tail and its dimensions is not small. I only state this.
                      9. TermNachTer
                        TermNachTer 1 October 2020 21: 28 New
                        0
                        You want to say that you understand more in aerodynamics than a whole design bureau of professional designers?
                      10. yehat2
                        yehat2 1 October 2020 22: 22 New
                        0
                        I do not want to say this at all, although the basics of gas dynamics and aerodynamics were taught to me, and I suspect, much better than some of the people from KB.
                      11. TermNachTer
                        TermNachTer 1 October 2020 22: 51 New
                        0
                        I think that if there was another, constructively simpler solution, you would have chosen it. The Chinese have already moved from simple copying to creative comprehension. If they made the same tail on their airplane, then they couldn't find a better solution.
  • PROXOR
    PROXOR 2 September 2020 15: 22 New
    0
    Still, the Chinese is more like an Amer than a Yak-44.
    1. Zaurbek
      Zaurbek 2 September 2020 17: 01 New
      +2
      Everybody looks like an American .... this is the standard.
      1. garri-lin
        garri-lin 2 September 2020 19: 36 New
        +1
        Even the creators of the Yak 44 did not deny that the American was taken as the basis.
        1. Zaurbek
          Zaurbek 2 September 2020 20: 15 New
          +1
          Who else could be taken as an example? There is no one else now ...
          1. garri-lin
            garri-lin 2 September 2020 21: 09 New
            0
            Well, I mean that they could be silent. But they weren't silent. There is a standard and everyone strives for it.
  • Lexus
    Lexus 2 September 2020 18: 51 New
    14
    the PLA army and its equipment are quite secret

    The case when they silently do, and not grind with their tongues and arrange shows with parOds.
  • Doccor18
    Doccor18 2 September 2020 07: 52 New
    +8
    The Chinese are doing everything right. Deck aircraft are designed, built and tested even before the birth of ships. Aircraft carriers, as we already know, they learned to build very quickly. This number will not work with aviation. It takes not even years, but 10-15 years to put a deck on the wing. As a result, by 2030, the PRC Navy will have 2-3 full-fledged aircraft carriers with catapults and a combat multipurpose air group ...
    It's a pity that I can't write this about our fleet ...
    1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
      Andrei from Chelyabinsk 2 September 2020 10: 23 New
      +7
      Quote: Doccor18
      It's a pity that I can't write this about our fleet ...

      What can you say here? One can only envy
      1. Nemchinov Vl
        Nemchinov Vl 2 September 2020 21: 17 New
        +1
        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        What can you say here? One can only envy
        Eh, ... yes ... (!)... I wonder how many capable at least A-50 are left? .....
        1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
          Andrei from Chelyabinsk 3 September 2020 06: 56 New
          +4
          Quote: Vl Nemchinov
          I wonder how many capable at least A-50 are left? .....

          I do not know. It is known for sure that 6 A-50U are in service and the seventh is on the way (will be in 2021). As far as can be judged, there are 12 more unmodernized A-50s (at one time BMPD reported 6 A-50U and 13 A-50)
    2. Narak-zempo
      Narak-zempo 2 September 2020 23: 04 New
      0
      Quote: Doccor18
      It's a pity that I can't write this about our fleet ...

      You don't need a fleet.
      Balsa Chinese crony does not blot a little Luska sister.
      The most liberating almiya in the mile is coming and will liberate Vasu the land and Vasa Lesulsa. And it will cool them down.
    3. yehat2
      yehat2 28 September 2020 09: 58 New
      0
      the Chinese did the fleet very slowly.
      Now we see a fast pace, but the preparation went on for 40 years, so that now they can do this.
      over the past 20 years, they have squeezed 2/3 of the small tonnage production from South Korea and Japan,
      took on a bunch of engineers and repairs, that's why with Avik quickly,
  • Avior
    Avior 2 September 2020 09: 37 New
    12
    The Chinese took a relatively simple path - they copied the American Hawkeye as much as possible.
    At one time, the Yakovlevites followed the same path with the Yak44 project, which reached the stage of a model.
    But in the USSR there was another version of the compact AWACS. Initially, it was made as a land one (some countries also use Hawkeye as a land one), then a deck version based on it was also engaged.
    This is the An71 project, which was an original project, completely different from the Hokai, in contrast to the Yak44.

    Unlike Yak44, An71 was built in 2 copies, tests began, but even before the collapse of the Soviet Union they were suspended due to lack of funding. And then everyone was not up to it.
    1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
      Andrei from Chelyabinsk 2 September 2020 10: 26 New
      +3
      Quote: Avior
      then they took up the deck version based on it

      Yes, but these works were curtailed by EMNIP in 1984. By the way, basically it seems to be just because of the saucer - too high for the plane to be put into the hangar
      1. Avior
        Avior 2 September 2020 10: 49 New
        +3
        Yes, it was too high for a hangar-9.2 meters.
        Hangar Kuznetsov - height 7.2 m.
    2. iouris
      iouris 2 September 2020 11: 50 New
      -2
      Quote: Avior
      they were suspended due to lack of funding. And then everyone was not up to it.

      We should sell the documentation to the Chinese.
      1. Avior
        Avior 2 September 2020 12: 13 New
        0
        The planes have survived, possibly in airworthiness.
        Think it's better to just rot? It is a pity for the work of people, for 35 years no one is interested.
        As for the strengthening of China, let the Americans have a headache.
        1. Souchastnik
          Souchastnik 2 September 2020 13: 44 New
          +1
          As for the strengthening of China, let the Americans have a headache.

          For some reason it seems to me that this is not only a headache for Americans ...
          1. Avior
            Avior 2 September 2020 14: 56 New
            +2
            I agree. Let those who have a headache have a headache smile
    3. yehat2
      yehat2 28 September 2020 10: 03 New
      0
      An-71 was created as an aircraft that could be mass produced and used everywhere.
      It was originally created for use on nasty and small airfields,
      which gave a chance to be based on Avik.
      The need of the Warsaw Pact and other allies for AWACS aircraft was more than one and a half hundred units, and on the basis of the IL-76 it was too expensive - so they did something more modest.
      But in my opinion, they chose the platform too adventurously.
      I do not believe that the engines do not interfere with the work of the cymbal.
      1. Avior
        Avior 28 September 2020 10: 17 New
        0
        It is not clear how exactly they could interfere?
        1. yehat2
          yehat2 28 September 2020 10: 21 New
          0
          ask how well the antennas near the chimney work.
          1. Avior
            Avior 28 September 2020 11: 32 New
            0
            otherwise it will not work on airplanes, the Hokai's plate is no further from the engines, it works somehow.
            1. yehat2
              yehat2 28 September 2020 12: 29 New
              0
              that's just the point, what's next.
              but I not only looked closely at the engines - the placement of the saucer on the tail, engines, etc. - there are too many innovations for such an aircraft. He was not required to have super performance characteristics - it was necessary to approach more conservatively, like the yak or the Chinese.
              1. Avior
                Avior 28 September 2020 13: 31 New
                0
                An-71 planes with a saucer flew hundreds of hours, no problems arose.
                1. yehat2
                  yehat2 28 September 2020 13: 51 New
                  0
                  purely for seed

                  Compared to the original An-72, its shoulder has decreased by almost 4 m, which negatively affected the controllability of the vehicle. The horizontal tail (GO), transferred to the fuselage, falling into the zone of influence of jet jets from engines, had to experience high vibration loads

                  For the unusual appearance of the aircraft, it was necessary to pay with the need to solve a number of problems, including:
                  insufficient stability and controllability of the aircraft in the lateral and longitudinal channels;
                  the need to install a two-link, four-section rudder of a large area, which complicated control and significantly reduced the effectiveness of the rudder trim;
                  additional loading of HE from the gas flow of engines.
                  1. Avior
                    Avior 28 September 2020 13: 59 New
                    0
                    Childhood illnesses, how can we go without it? you couldn't just attach a plate and not change anything.
                    The first flight of the experimental An-71 took place on July 12, 1985. In the course of subsequent flight tests, the characteristics were investigated at ultimate strength flight modes, with artificial simulation of failures in the control system, controllability and stability of the aircraft at all ranges of speeds, angles of attack and sliding and centering, cooling systems and maintaining the temperature regime in the fuselage compartments, cruise and booster engines, power plant systems. The characteristics of the operation of the systems of the radio engineering complex, such as the vibration loading of the RTK equipment and aircraft equipment, the effect of the electromagnetic fields of the RTK on the operation of the Doppler speed and drift angle meter and the long-range navigation system, the radar channel, the electromagnetic compatibility of radio communications, the radio hermeticity of the aircraft structure and ensuring the biosecurity of the crew, were carefully studied.

                    The flight and navigation complex has successfully passed the automatic piloting test in all flight modes: take off, exit to the zone, patrol along the route with the execution of a flat turn, return and landing. During research trials, revealed some shortcomings, subsequently eliminated. Insufficient rudder trim performance problem has been resolved by thickening the trailing edge of the trimmer to 30 mm, the ends of the elevators were cut in order to optimize the longitudinal stability of the aircraft, and the instability of the electrical system was corrected.

                    You wrote about something else, about the problems of the radio engineering complex.
                    There was no C-2 in the USSR, and they were not ready to release it in single copies, it is clear that they adapted the aircraft that was promising at that time, which was going to be mass-produced.
                    1. yehat2
                      yehat2 28 September 2020 14: 04 New
                      0
                      I am not immersed enough to evaluate options.
                      It's just that such decisions in aviation always lead to a long and tedious debugging with an indefinite ending.
  • pereselenec
    pereselenec 2 September 2020 10: 17 New
    +2
    For several years, China has been developing a promising long-range radar surveillance and control aircraft, the Xian KJ-600.


    He reminds me of our Bunshu something ...
  • Bersaglieri
    Bersaglieri 2 September 2020 11: 26 New
    +3
    Chinese classic - "the copier works" :)
  • fa2998
    fa2998 2 September 2020 16: 02 New
    +3
    Quote: SovAr238A
    This is Hawkeye.

    Why reinvent the wheel? Hokai has been flying for half a century, everyone is satisfied. China has gone to his famous path - pirate copying.
  • tralflot1832
    tralflot1832 2 September 2020 23: 05 New
    +1
    It doesn't matter who he looks like to the Chinese. They realized that without the DLRO aircraft, the carrier would be like no eyes. They would run around Soviet aircraft carriers at the post, and then swing at a normal 100-thous. And we are going to build a couple of aviks. All the more, because of the puddle, voices began to be heard that our merchant fleet should be arrested or drowned.
  • Pavel57
    Pavel57 3 September 2020 09: 40 New
    0
    The engine from the An-24 is rather weak.
  • nnz226
    nnz226 3 September 2020 11: 57 New
    0
    Well, straight E-2 "Hawkeye"! even the tail unit slammed at the poor merino!
  • Dmitry V.
    Dmitry V. 3 September 2020 13: 59 New
    -1
    We do not envy - a promising AWACS should be a drone that will not be limited by operator and pilot fatigue.
  • hostel
    hostel 7 September 2020 22: 46 New
    0
    The Chinese, having no traditions, realized that the presence of such an aircraft is a huge plus. I wonder when our admirals and generals will get it. The presence of such an aircraft will be very useful not only at sea, but also on land. After all, the fleet of a-50 and a-50u is no more than 10 units. The A-100 will not be available for a long time.