Military Review

SAM "Ptitselov" for ground forces

69

SAM "Strela-10MN" one of the units of the Airborne Forces. Photo of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation


Several years ago, it became known about the development of a promising anti-aircraft missile system with the code "Birds", designed specifically for the airborne troops. Now it is reported about plans to create a modification for the ground forces. In both cases, the new air defense system should have a positive effect on the organization of the military air defense.

Old and new complex


First news about a short-range airborne air defense system for the Airborne Forces appeared several years ago. Subsequently, certain details of the work were reported, as well as the timing of the appearance of such equipment in the army. According to the latest reports of this kind, "Birdies" will enter service with the Airborne Forces by 2022 and will replace the outdated complexes of the Strela-10 family.

According to known data, the Ptitselov air defense system will be built on the redesigned chassis of the BMD-4M airborne combat vehicle, which is in serial production. The launcher, fire controls and anti-aircraft missile are borrowed from the Sosna land-based complex, presented several years ago.

At the end of August, Izvestia, citing its sources, announced the start of the development of a new version of the Ptitselov, now for the ground forces. As in the case of the Airborne Forces, it is intended to replace the old Strel-10. The main difference between the army complex will be a different chassis - it will be built on the basis of the BMP-3. It is also planned to develop an upgraded missile with an increased firing range.

Development work on the new "Birdcatcher" will continue until 2022. After passing all the tests, the complex will be put into service and will go into series. At the same time, as follows from different reports, two versions of the air defense system for different types of troops will be refined, produced and operated in parallel.

Basic sample


According to numerous reports of the recent past, the basic version of the air defense system "Birds" will receive a combat module and weapons from "Sosna". The latter carries a tower-type launcher with a circular horizontal guidance and swinging blocks for the installation of transport and launch containers. Optoelectronic equipment is placed on the tower. The complex controls are located in the chassis.

To search and track the target, the Sosna / Ptitselov air defense missile system uses optical-electronic means. The equipment includes a television and thermal imaging channel, as well as a separate "direction finding" channel and a laser rangefinder. Such devices allow you to search for targets at distances exceeding the firing range, but at the same time they do not unmask themselves with radiation. A tele-oriented missile guidance system using a laser beam is used. The maximum of processes is automated and does not require operator intervention. There is a mode of centralized control of several air defense systems from one command post.


SAM "Sosna" based on MT-LB. Photo by KB Tochmash

The launcher carries two blocks of six TPK missiles each. The containers hold 9M340 missiles. This bicaliber product weighing approx. 40 kg with a maximum speed of 900 m / s. The firing range is 10 km, the altitude is 5 km. In flight, the missile is capable of maneuvering with an overload of up to 40. The missile is designed to destroy air targets of different classes; it is also possible to attack ground targets.

The first samples of the Sosna air defense missile system were built on the MT-LB chassis. On the roof, with a shift to the stern, a tower installation was placed, and the control equipment was inside the hull. In 2019, a new version of the complex was shown for the first time at the Army forum, now on the BMP-3 chassis. It was mentioned that this is the serial appearance of the "Pine", intended for delivery to the troops.

Poultry products


The "Poultry" complex for the Airborne Forces represents the Sosny units on the BMD-4M chassis. This SAM architecture has several advantages. First of all, it provides unification with the new standard airborne armored vehicle. Together with this, the ability to work in the same battle formations with linear airborne vehicles is achieved, as well as the possibility of landing and parachute landing.

The ground forces have different requirements for their equipment, and therefore they make a "Bird catcher" based on the BMP-3. This will give all the advantages in terms of unification and joint combat use. At the same time, we are talking about unification not only with an infantry fighting vehicle. Several other machines for different purposes were developed on a similar chassis, incl. anti-aircraft weapons.

Thus, the main approaches and principles proposed in the two Ptitselov projects allow two branches of the armed forces to obtain promising air defense systems with the highest characteristics, best adapted to the conditions of their work.

Complex instead of complex


However, the available data on the development and implementation of the Ptitselov air defense system leave some questions. So, on the basis of the land "Sosna" by transferring components, they created a landing complex. Now its combat module is proposed to be rearranged on the chassis of an infantry fighting vehicle - in the interests of the ground forces.

However, such an air defense system exists, and it has already been demonstrated to the public, moreover, as a modification of the "Pine" and without any connection with the "Birds" project. Why the latest news is about a new modification of the "Birdman", and not about the already known version of "Pine" - is unclear. However, one can try to find explanations for this.


"Pine" on the BMP-3 chassis. Photo of t / k "Zvezda"

Apparently, this is not a confusion, and for the ground forces they are indeed making their own modification of the Ptitselov air defense system. Probably, the combat equipment of this complex is not a simple copy of the Pines module, but its improved version. The airborne forces require greater resistance to specific loads and other design features that may be of interest to the army as well. In addition, the "Birdman" is a newer development and should have advantages over the basic air defense system.

Thus, the expected "Birds" for the ground forces externally and in architecture should be similar to the "Pine" of the serial appearance arr. 2019, but at the same time differ in the composition of equipment, characteristics, etc. In particular, it is already known about the development of a new missile with improved combat qualities.

What the future holds for Sosna in connection with the launch of a new project is unknown. In the recent past, the domestic media mentioned its imminent adoption into service. Now this project may lose prospects.

The obvious need


The bulk of the data on the "Birdcatcher" project in both of its versions is still closed, and only the most general information is known. The project is going to be completed by 2022, and then all the most interesting details may appear.

At the same time, it is already obvious that an anti-aircraft complex of the "Pine" or "Bird-catcher" type is necessary for both ground and airborne troops. Such an air defense system will provide rearmament with the decommissioning of the outdated Strel-10, and due to its higher tactical and technical characteristics and combat qualities, it will increase the combat effectiveness of the military air defense. In addition, he will determine its prospects for the coming years or even decades. In connection with the development of manned and unmanned aviation, as well as means of attack, this area is acquiring particular importance, and corresponding responsibility is assigned to new projects.

It should be noted that now, in the interests of military air defense, several promising anti-aircraft systems are being created at once. First of all, these are missile systems of several types; there is also a return to the idea of ​​an artillery system. As a result of all these projects, including the proposed "Birdcatcher", the Russian army, represented by several types of troops, will receive a number of promising models capable of repelling any possible air threats, relevant and promising.
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  1. Thrifty
    Thrifty 1 September 2020 05: 11
    +4
    Kirill, what is the article about? "Either it will be, or not, or morning, or daytime" ... Information is less than the minimum, so I could. ..but I don't want to compete with you. ...
    1. Cyril G ...
      Cyril G ... 1 September 2020 10: 17
      +5
      Quote: Thrifty
      Information is less than the minimum, so I could.


      So most of the articles are so ...
      1. Snail N9
        Snail N9 1 September 2020 12: 29
        +8
        And this is not an article like this, this is the situation we have in the military-industrial complex - we can no longer produce something serially on a more or less large scale, therefore there are heaps of "prototypes" - everyone wants to live - it's easier to cut a prototype with a file and get money for it, then "modernize" it again for money ... And serial production is no longer needed. yes
    2. shonsu
      shonsu 28 October 2020 13: 30
      0
      There is just as much information here as an ordinary layman can know. In the USSR, they could be imprisoned for such an article, for disclosing classified data.
  2. Aleksandr1971
    Aleksandr1971 1 September 2020 05: 26
    +4
    Just yesterday there was an article about "Derivation". And my comment on it.

    “Why do we need a whole menagerie of air defense systems: Derivation, Pine, Pantsir, etc., etc.? I feel that these systems duplicate each other for their intended purpose. But in a war, and in economic terms, this can turn out sideways.
    This sounds a lot like the overwhelming variety of rifles and artillery systems in the 19th century Russian army. "
    And here already the "Birdman" is on the way.

    If any of the commentators say that each air defense system has its own narrow range of tasks, then I will say that everything is good in moderation. You can't produce one type of rifle to kill enemy soldiers and produce another type of rifle against enemy officers.
    1. carstorm 11
      carstorm 11 1 September 2020 06: 20
      11
      the shell is object. he is generally superfluous in this row.
      1. Cyril G ...
        Cyril G ... 1 September 2020 10: 18
        +1
        Well, we need to start unification at least with missiles, right? *
      2. sivuch
        sivuch 1 September 2020 10: 41
        +3
        Nevertheless, there is a partial duplication of Dereviani and Poultry.
    2. Lopatov
      Lopatov 1 September 2020 09: 55
      +8
      Quote: Aleksandr1971
      You can't produce one type of rifle to kill enemy soldiers and produce another type of rifle against enemy officers.

      However, you should not try to replace everything from a pistol to a heavy machine gun with one machine gun.
    3. Genry
      Genry 1 September 2020 11: 36
      0
      Quote: Aleksandr1971
      Why do we need a whole menagerie of air defense weapons: Derivation, Pine, Shell, etc. etc.? I feel that these systems duplicate each other for their intended purpose.

      Each system is tailored for its specific tasks.

      The paratroopers need air defense that can be operated by hand, without special loading vehicles. Optimization in terms of weight and size of ammunition is important.
      At short distances and low altitudes (about 5 km), against small missiles and UAVs, the Derivation is excellent, with its relatively large ammunition load.
      Against more distant targets: helicopters, large UAVs, missiles and airplanes - you need a "Birdman", the missiles of which can be reset by a couple of people.

      Combined arms systems can have a large mass and dimensions, but their characteristics will be much higher, as well as more complex maintenance.
    4. Private-K
      Private-K 1 September 2020 13: 27
      +3
      Quote: Aleksandr1971
      This sounds a lot like the overwhelming variety of rifles and artillery systems in the 19th century Russian army. "

      This was during the 1860s and 70s. And it is associated with constant revolutionary changes in the design of rifles. It goes without saying that no industry will keep up with equipping a large army with new weapons.
      By 1878, the entire active army (in the war with Turkey) was rearmed to Berdanki, and by 1880 the general transition was completed.

      Quote: Aleksandr1971
      Why do you need a whole menagerie of air defense weapons: Derivation, Pine, Shell, etc. etc.?

      Derivation - self-propelled anti-aircraft artillery system, Pine - missile, relatively inexpensive air defense vehicles of the front line. They will replace the outdated Strela-10 and, in part, the Tunguska air defense system.
      Thor - air defense missile defense system of brigade-divisional level. More expensive, robotic, with more potential. Soon it will completely replace the outdated Osa-AKM SZRK.
      Shell - air defense system of anti-aircraft missile forces. Designed for object, primarily missile defense. It has the most cheap missiles. It has no previous analogues.
      Everything is logical.
      1. Sergey Sfiedu
        Sergey Sfiedu 4 November 2020 01: 51
        +1
        Everything is logical. No military budget alone can withstand such a variety. Then we cry that new types of weapons in the troops with a gulkin's nose.
      2. Elturisto
        Elturisto 14 November 2020 23: 54
        +1
        Who is this shit capable of replacing? How many ammunition-50 or 60 rounds does Derivatsia have? For reference, even BMP-2 has two 500, Tunguska 2000.
    5. Elturisto
      Elturisto 14 November 2020 23: 50
      +2
      This is another cut from Rostec. Again, a bicaliber rocket, most likely from the old Pantsir, was stuck on a new chassis and the case was ready.
  3. Pushkowed
    Pushkowed 1 September 2020 06: 45
    0
    What is really interesting is the question: is the integration of the Ptitselov possible with the promising Hermes missile system? So it would be possible to ensure the defeat of not only air, but also ground / surface targets with the same launcher. The weight and size characteristics of missiles and TPKs seem to be similar. And the origin of the missiles is the same - from the Pantsir / Tunguska missiles. Or do you need separate launchers for the Hermes?
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 1 September 2020 10: 00
      +1
      Quote: Pushkowed
      What is really interesting is the question: is the integration of the Ptitselov possible with the promising Hermes missile system? So it would be possible to ensure the defeat of not only air, but also ground / surface targets with the same launcher.

      What's the point?
      Is that making both the SAM and the ATGM is much more expensive. And with specialists in the combat use of such "generalists" everything will be very, very difficult. An artilleryman is a bad anti-aircraft gunner. An anti-aircraft gunner is a bad artilleryman. And if you try to train a station wagon, it will turn out to be equally bad an artilleryman and an anti-aircraft gunner.
    2. sivuch
      sivuch 1 September 2020 10: 45
      0
      ADATS is considered to be so. Only few people bought it.
    3. Genry
      Genry 1 September 2020 10: 54
      +2
      Quote: Pushkowed
      really interesting, so this is the question: is the integration of Ptitselov possible with the promising Hermes missile system? So it would be possible to ensure the defeat of not only air, but also ground / surface targets with the same launcher.

      Birder works on targets in line of sight and is equipped with an optoelectronic detection and guidance system. Its guides are very flexible and offer all-round directionality.
      Hermes designed for low-speed over-the-horizon targets. It will only take up space on the Birdcatcher's launcher, which is already lacking. The simplest lifting launcher is enough for him, without rotation along the horizon (but it is still more convenient to borrow from the Grad MLRS).
    4. Zaurbek
      Zaurbek 1 September 2020 11: 14
      0
      If the missile is the same as the Shell missile, then you can assign these Pines under the Shell command or Derivation. Based on what are the main goals.
      1. Aag
        Aag 6 September 2020 18: 22
        0
        Quote: Zaurbek
        If the missile is the same as the Shell missile, then you can assign these Pines under the Shell command or Derivation. Based on what are the main goals.

        Technically, perhaps, it is possible. Only affiliation, subordination are different (object, general) ... There have always been problems with interaction (departmental) ...
        1. Aag
          Aag 6 September 2020 18: 25
          0
          And, what kind of missile does "Derivation" have? Isn't this a ZAK (Anti-aircraft artillery complex)?
  4. vch62388
    vch62388 1 September 2020 08: 03
    +2
    2019 - pre-production "Pine", 2022 - pre-production "Birds", 202 ... - pre-production land "Birds". No, well, cho, funding is coming. You can improve endlessly. The result is Strela-10 in the troops.
    1. Cyril G ...
      Cyril G ... 1 September 2020 10: 19
      +2
      By the way, are they producing MTLBV now? It was made in Ukraine in the USSR .........
    2. Genry
      Genry 1 September 2020 11: 02
      0
      Quote: vch62388
      No, well, cho, funding is coming. You can improve endlessly.

      And in your opinion, you need to rivet the systems (which are now easy to improve before their serial production), and then immediately modernize them hemorrhoids.
      1. vch62388
        vch62388 1 September 2020 11: 42
        +3
        The archers squeaked with heavy and low rate of fire. Let's wait for the creation of a magazine rifle. And then we'll wait for the automatic assault rifle. Until then, let's fight with bows.
        T-34 sample 1940 "raw". Let's wait for the T-43. Then T-34-85 and T-44. And there, and the T-54 on the way ...
        In the Union, the Strela-10 series, then successively M, M2, M3, etc. The calculations are trained, production is adjusted, changes are made during the release, there is nothing unfamiliar. Launch the "Pine" in the series and modify it in 10-15-20 years. The troops are not naked.
        1. Genry
          Genry 1 September 2020 11: 52
          -1
          Quote: vch62388
          T-34 sample 1940 "raw".

          There was such a stupid trouble ... Then they brought it to mind.
          And now they are trying to finish, and then only stamp.

          And now there are many revolutionary developments at the exit (ROFAR - for example). It makes sense to go straight to this generation. And then you want rifles when machine guns are already real.
          1. vch62388
            vch62388 1 September 2020 12: 27
            0
            Every year a new TV and car model is released. You don't expect to perfect them.
            1. Genry
              Genry 1 September 2020 12: 37
              +2
              Quote: vch62388
              Every year a new TV and car model is released. You don't expect to perfect them.

              First: technical excellence has already been achieved. Nothing new except the optimization of the production itself. The only question is vtyuhivaniya hamsters, with PR they say newer and pinker.
              Secondly: here is exactly commerce and money-making.
              Do you really want the Russian military to be led to such a permanent divorce every year?
              1. vch62388
                vch62388 1 September 2020 13: 39
                +2
                In this case, about "newer and pinker", I completely agree with you. But to wait indefinitely for the creation of the "Death Star", pouring in a lot of money is also "not ice". The product will begin to recoup the investment only in series. Until that time, all pre-production samples are pitiful drafts of a future masterpiece.
                The troops urgently demand the replacement of "Strela-10", which is a hundred years old at lunchtime, with more modern products. Let the landing, underwater, under-ice options appear later. Give me something ...
          2. Boris Chernikov
            Boris Chernikov 1 September 2020 12: 28
            +3
            The problem is that by the end of the 22nd year they only promise to prepare the car for testing, provided that the Pine, in principle, is already ready for the series, all the dances around the chassis. As a result, we have that by the middle of 2024 the tests will only be completed and in the most optimistic case by the end of 2025, we will receive only the first battalion kit .. This is not even funny, it can’t be called anything other than sabotage and fraud .. Kryvoruchko eats his bread for me in vain and, instead of giving interviews, I must scold the department or resign
            1. Aag
              Aag 6 September 2020 19: 46
              +1
              Quote: Boris Chernikov
              The problem is that by the end of the 22nd year they only promise to prepare the car for testing, provided that the Pine, in principle, is already ready for the series, all the dances around the chassis. As a result, we have that by the middle of 2024 the tests will only be completed and in the most optimistic case by the end of 2025, we will receive only the first battalion kit .. This is not even funny, it can’t be called anything other than sabotage and fraud .. Kryvoruchko eats his bread for me in vain and, instead of giving interviews, I must scold the department or resign

              You are very loyal in your ratings.
              In the article, no offense to the author (he writes about what we really have, there is a development, on its basis another one is proposed, and more ... About the adopted for service, the assessment of the current samples, nothing! It is logical. And, apparently, it is logical .)
              Something is wrong ...
              1. Boris Chernikov
                Boris Chernikov 7 September 2020 10: 48
                0
                The funniest thing is that Shoigu said about the fleet that there were no new R&D projects, because they were driven out of themselves by eternal experiments .. and then something is slowing down .. that's real .. what's the point in Strela-10MN, if there is a range of 5 km? Apaches make laugh ..
  5. garri-lin
    garri-lin 1 September 2020 10: 52
    0
    I wonder why small missiles are not immediately introduced into the ammunition load. Adapt the same Nails from the Shell to the targeting system.
    1. Boris Chernikov
      Boris Chernikov 1 September 2020 12: 25
      +1
      because the complexes are different
      1. garri-lin
        garri-lin 1 September 2020 12: 46
        0
        That is why I say adapt. With a massive raid of simple targets (MLRS, a flock of UAVs), the more missiles the better.
        1. Boris Chernikov
          Boris Chernikov 1 September 2020 12: 52
          0
          I think that in theory this is possible, but there is a problem in the guidance system ... in Sosna, in fact, it is laser, and if I am not mistaken, Pantsir has radio command guidance ... so I'll have to make a mini-missile under the Pine ... For me, it's better to set 30 mm cannon 2A42 with a system of remote detonation of shells - this will allow you not to waste expensive missiles on all kinds of UAVs ... on MLRS it will already be doubtful at all .. although you can try everything
          1. garri-lin
            garri-lin 1 September 2020 13: 26
            0
            I think in the end there will be a complex: Derivation as the ZAK of Poultry on the BMP3 as an air defense system and a control vehicle. One will complement the other. The number of cars of one type or another may even vary.
            1. Boris Chernikov
              Boris Chernikov 1 September 2020 15: 13
              0
              The funny thing is that the Derivation will go to the troops at about the same time that the Poultryman is only going to be tested .. although the Derivation is technically a more innovative machine than the Pine / Poultryman .. I am aware of the air defense system in the unit ... I do not approve .. In general, you need to either cross an elephant with a rhinoceros and set the Sosny launcher for Derivation ... which is quite feasible, or install a module with a 30 mm cannon and remote detonation of shells ... the future is for the UAV, and the Americans swear and swear that they will fill their enemies with cheap UAVs ... so you need to take into account this development of events too .. 30 mm offs with programmable detonation is very good in this regard ..
              1. garri-lin
                garri-lin 1 September 2020 15: 50
                0
                Not really. Weak fragmentation effect and near-zero high-explosive effect. 57 mm is much better in this sense. Gpo 2 grams of directional spread can mow a large area. Crossbreeding will not work. Such a symbiote will not be compact. And the large and heavy one will repeat the Shell. It is not necessary. Plus 2 cars are more stable than one big one. Recharging is easier. And the most important thing. If the Dereviations do create a guided missile, it will be a unique complex with both an artillery unit and an ersatz missile unit. But at close range, such ersatz missiles will be enough.
                1. Boris Chernikov
                  Boris Chernikov 1 September 2020 17: 19
                  +1
                  in theory, yes, but here it is precisely that you can shoot several shells and create a field of fragments ... here is the main OMS ... so that the system correctly calculates the time of detonation ... the projectile may be weak, but the detonation next to the rocket will disable it ... detonation of 5-6 shells next to the helicopter will break it with a guarantee .. Relatively "large and heavy" .. hardly .. we take the chassis from the BMP-3 and put the missiles and a cannon .. Speech in the price of shells and their quantity .. now mentioned that the maximum in the complex will be 120 shells ... but 30 mm of them will have 500 shells ..
                  1. garri-lin
                    garri-lin 1 September 2020 17: 36
                    0
                    Tobis instead of one 57 four 30 mm controversial exchange. One 57mm will give more shards than 4 30mm. And this despite the fact that the 57mm direct shot range is much greater than that of 30mm. By the way, a 57 mm projectile is guaranteed to destroy any helicopter in service. And 30 mm cannot. The only thing that raises a slight doubt is whether it is realistic to create a projectile controlled from optical guidance. But once they promise, then you can. I just think the speed will be less.
                    1. Boris Chernikov
                      Boris Chernikov 1 September 2020 18: 37
                      +1
                      the complexes have different tasks .. The derivation is the replacement of Shilka / Tunguska .. and the Pine is a replacement for the Arrow ..
                      1. garri-lin
                        garri-lin 1 September 2020 18: 39
                        0
                        But weren't Shilka, Tunguzka and Strela in the army simultaneously performing their own functions?
                      2. Boris Chernikov
                        Boris Chernikov 1 September 2020 18: 41
                        +1
                        not quite .. Tunguska is the development of Shilka, no matter how strange it sounded, but there is a radar station, which gives an illumination .. and the Arrow covers covertly .. BUT, given the low firing range, now it is ineffective .. the point is that we have threats, attack helicopters, and against them we need missiles with a range of 10 km and an unmanned aerial vehicle ... kamikaze ... and here we need a large ammunition ... personally, I see 2a42 as an additional melee weapon
                      3. garri-lin
                        garri-lin 1 September 2020 18: 45
                        0
                        It's unrealistic to get in. The range is short.
                      4. Boris Chernikov
                        Boris Chernikov 1 September 2020 18: 46
                        0
                        Pine normally works at a range of 10 km ... and practicing shooting at 3 km, say from 30 mm, is a matter of writing code in the LMS
                      5. garri-lin
                        garri-lin 1 September 2020 19: 00
                        0
                        The ballistic cannon will not reach up to three kilometers. The Carapaces are much more advanced weapons, and then shooting at a small target is not effective.
                      6. Boris Chernikov
                        Boris Chernikov 1 September 2020 19: 02
                        0
                        and it also costs VERY expensive, kamikaze drones will be enough ... even if we assume that the range of 2,5 km is ... that's enough ... no need to invent an elephant, where a horse is enough)
                      7. garri-lin
                        garri-lin 1 September 2020 19: 05
                        0
                        Dear Shell does not pull. Cannot be hit by faster-firing weapons. With the best ballistics. With an excellent MSA. How will the simpler Pine hit? The weapon is not intended for such accurate shooting.
                      8. Boris Chernikov
                        Boris Chernikov 2 September 2020 08: 20
                        0
                        And how does the arrow hit?) And yes I think that 7 kg of the warhead speak for themselves
                      9. garri-lin
                        garri-lin 2 September 2020 10: 10
                        0
                        For the first time I hear from you that there is a cannon on the 30mm arrow. Can I have a proof?
                      10. Boris Chernikov
                        Boris Chernikov 2 September 2020 10: 12
                        0
                        ) but I don’t say that he’s standing there .. you are asking about whether it is possible to get in .. I said that this is a question of the development of the OMS .. by the way, about the Armor, the reason why there were no hits, something that the OMS did not introduce the performance characteristics of the UAV .. initially the complex was sharpened for the fight against missiles, now after the upgrade it is quite calmly fighting them even without an air blast ... in general, I realized that you think 30 mm is a non-cannon ... then I see no reason to talk
                      11. garri-lin
                        garri-lin 2 September 2020 10: 53
                        0
                        There are several 30 mm guns in service. I do not consider it to be a non-bottom. Unsuitable for a specific purpose soon.
  • SovAr238A
    SovAr238A 1 September 2020 22: 55
    +2
    Quote: Boris Chernikov
    The derivation is a technically more innovative machine than the Pine / Poultry.

    Why did it happen?
    The same single channel, expressed in the presence of an OLS, the same laser guidance channel ...

    There will not be any shells with remote detonation on Derivation for the first 5-8 years of production and it is not planned ...
    Don't dream ...
    1. Phoenix
      Phoenix 7 October 2020 15: 36
      0
      For the 57mm gun, projectiles with a radio fuse were produced. This is not new technology.
  • Aag
    Aag 6 September 2020 19: 50
    0
    Quote: garri-lin
    That is why I say adapt. With a massive raid of simple targets (MLRS, a flock of UAVs), the more missiles the better.

    Explain, please, for an amateur: why MLRS, UAVs are a simple target, even with massive use.
    Without sarcasm.
    1. Phoenix
      Phoenix 7 October 2020 15: 38
      0
      MLRS shells do not maneuver at all, UAVs maneuver very sluggishly and not far.
      1. Aag
        Aag 15 October 2020 16: 39
        0
        Quote: Phoenix
        MLRS shells do not maneuver at all, UAVs maneuver very sluggishly and not far.

        Thank you.
        They only confuse the massiveness of the application, and the ratio of costs ...
  • Boris Chernikov
    Boris Chernikov 1 September 2020 12: 24
    +4
    "An obvious need" was to start buying Pine right now, and only then order a version based on the BMP-3 ... how much you can play "oh, you can do better!" .. We have half a thousand Arrows in our troops, which It's high time to change ... And we are offered to wait until 2025 as the start of supplies ..
  • 1_2
    1_2 1 September 2020 12: 50
    -1
    it is necessary to teach Hermes (range 100 km) to shoot down turntable planes, laser-guided by a swarm of UAVs
    1. Boris Chernikov
      Boris Chernikov 1 September 2020 15: 16
      0
      no need to take bread from the S-300) .. to destroy air targets at such a range, a very powerful radar is needed .. even the Pantsir-SM can detect targets up to 75 km and attack at ranges up to 40 km .. By the way, Hermes and Shell missiles have common roots ...
  • stels_07
    stels_07 7 October 2020 12: 01
    0
    Why not a wheeled platform ..
    1. Phoenix
      Phoenix 7 October 2020 15: 39
      +1
      For military systems, cross-country ability is very important, wheeled ones get stuck wherever there is no training ground for a commercial.
      1. stels_07
        stels_07 7 October 2020 21: 33
        +1
        Btry, Zrk Osa pass a lot ...
        1. Phoenix
          Phoenix 7 October 2020 22: 01
          0
          And there are many places that DO NOT pass. If in doubt, study the trends in the RF ground forces.
  • Phoenix
    Phoenix 7 October 2020 13: 51
    0
    I read this interesting - "It is already known that the complex will be equipped with a round-the-clock all-weather optical-location station with a circular view." If true, then this is the first land-based OLS. If I understand the purpose correctly, then it autonomously scans the airspace without human intervention, like a radar. In this case, this is essentially a fantastic "ladar" from a movie about the future. Who knows what the phrase above really means - let me know what it is :) It is desirable immediately with the sources.
  • nobody75
    nobody75 14 October 2020 08: 36
    +3
    The altitude for the modern complex is low ...
    Aircraft with modern suspended sighting systems operate from high altitudes.
    There is no lidar to search for barging ammunition and drones ...
    Aiming on a laser beam means a single-channel complex.
    In the conditions of massive use of drones, he will not be able to defend himself.
    Instead, the birder needs a rocket and cannon system with a 57 mm artillery system and a guided projectile with detonation on the trajectory and missiles with radio command guidance with an altitude of 10, a range of 20 km. Surveying and escorting - rofar and lidar.
    Sincerely
  • Lesorub
    Lesorub 18 October 2020 21: 11
    +2
    "Poultry", the Russian army, represented by several types of troops, will receive a number of promising models capable of repelling any possible air threats, current and promising.

    One of the rather problematic targets is UAVs - and new air defense models must take these threats into account and effectively deal with them!
  • Andron59
    Andron59 25 November 2020 05: 03
    0
    And why on the basis of BMP-3? After all, you can use the bases of obsolete BMP-1 and BMP-2. There are plenty of them.