Military Review

The timing of the start of deliveries of the ZAK "Derivation-Air Defense" to the troops has been announced

92
The timing of the start of deliveries of the ZAK "Derivation-Air Defense" to the troops has been announced

The new Derivation-Air Defense self-propelled anti-aircraft artillery complex will begin to enter the armed forces in 2022. Alexander Potapov, general director of the Uralvagonzavod concern, told TASS about this.


According to the general director of UVZ, preliminary tests of "Derivation-Air Defense" have been completed, the complex has shown excellent results in the fight against drones. Currently, state tests of the complex are underway, which are planned to be completed also in 2022. A pilot batch of machines is also being manufactured. Earlier, UVZ said that the enterprise is ready for serial production of machines.

Preliminary tests of the combat vehicle have been completed, including the confirmation of the possibility of combating drones of various types - from small-sized to heavy shock ones. Now a pilot batch is being manufactured. The first deliveries of the new anti-aircraft complex to the troops are scheduled for 2022.

- said Potapov.

The Derivation-Air Defense complex was first presented at the Army-2018 forum. The self-propelled anti-aircraft gun was created on the BMP-3 chassis, equipped with a module with a 57-mm automatic cannon.

The complex is designed to combat aviation and cruise missiles, aircraft, helicopters, unmanned aerial vehicles, as well as with single MLRS shells, it is also possible to use it against ground and surface lightly armored targets. The complex includes a combat vehicle with a high ballistic cannon, a maintenance vehicle and a 9T260 transport and loading vehicle, which can quickly reload a combat vehicle right on the battlefield.
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  1. vvvjak
    vvvjak 31 August 2020 13: 37 New
    +4
    Do you already have shells for it? Those with remote detonation. There isn't much time until 2022.
    1. Graz
      Graz 31 August 2020 13: 55 New
      +6
      Well, the gun has a muzzle brake, if you look closely from below, there is a projectile programmer at the detonation distance, then at least there are projectiles in the development
      1. vvvjak
        vvvjak 31 August 2020 14: 04 New
        +1
        Quote: Graz
        Well, the gun has a muzzle brake, if you look closely from below, there is a projectile programmer at the detonation distance, then at least there are projectiles in the development

        So the fact of the matter is that they have been in development for a long time, even tests have already been carried out since 2016 (there was an article on VO). But I have not heard about their adoption and serial production.
        1. Omskgasmyas
          Omskgasmyas 31 August 2020 14: 21 New
          0
          Why adopt a projectile for which the artillery system is not yet ready? Together with Derivation, they will accept it.
        2. venik
          venik 31 August 2020 14: 25 New
          +1
          Quote: vvvjak
          So the fact of the matter is that they have been in development for a long time, even tests have already been carried out since 2016 (there was an article on VO). But I have not heard about their adoption and serial production.

          =========
          Well, the "Derivation" will be adopted, and the shells will also be accepted! Without this, the whole point of development is lost!
          1. vvvjak
            vvvjak 31 August 2020 14: 31 New
            +4
            Well if so. I'm talking about what would not work out "Vanka is at home - Manka is not present! Manka is at home - Vanka is not." There is still complete silence about the adoption of shells.
            1. venik
              venik 31 August 2020 20: 15 New
              +3
              Quote: vvvjak
              There is still complete silence about the adoption of shells.

              ==========
              Vladimir! Silence, or lack of information does not mean "absence" of an event at all!
              The module "Baikal" is equipped with programmer for shells (!), which means (as Winnie the Pooh used to say) - "This is" w-w-w-w "- not without reason!" wink
          2. PSih2097
            PSih2097 31 August 2020 18: 17 New
            -3
            Quote: venik
            Well, the "Derivation" will be adopted, and the shells will also be accepted! Without this, the whole point of development is lost!

            without missiles - the whole point is lost ...
            1. venik
              venik 31 August 2020 20: 21 New
              +5
              Quote: PSih2097
              without missiles - the whole point is lost ...

              ========
              Without a tool, the whole point is lost! For hitting on self-made kamikaze drones, for which the red price is $ 100 on a market day, with rockets that cost 1.5 - 2 order more expensive (!) - that's what it makes no sense! But for now - we have to!
              1. PSih2097
                PSih2097 1 September 2020 18: 48 New
                0
                Quote: venik
                Without a tool, the whole point is lost! For hitting on self-made kamikaze drones, for which the red price is $ 100 on a market day, with rockets that cost 1.5 - 2 orders of magnitude more (!) - there is definitely no point in this! But for now - we have to!

                Well, good, but for example the situation - there is a threat of damage to the same Su-34, the shooting down of a quadrocopter from an IED by a rocket. Do you think it's expensive? I believe that the potential repair of "Drying" will come out, as it were, by orders of magnitude more expensive.
                And this is as an example, a tank column, a supply column, etc. etc.
                And to hell with this iron - crews are lost, on which so many resources have been spent that even the price tag of the armata will fade.
            2. Interlocutor
              Interlocutor 31 August 2020 23: 30 New
              0
              without missiles - the whole point is lost ...

              Yes, it is lost. But there are rockets ... they gave me a lift. Everything will be good
      2. The comment was deleted.
      3. dgonni
        dgonni 31 August 2020 16: 05 New
        0
        Derivation has a projectile programmed with a laser beam. Therefore, under conditions of high dust or fog with haze and rain, it is ineffective. there is not at all like Erlikon's!
        Well, to a heap of something you can not see the base radar station for detection and guidance!
        P.S. Adopting a complex to combat UAVs only in the visible optical range is the height of wastefulness and incompetence.
        Although a 57mm projectile with a programmable detonation would be VERY effective against helicopters and air-to-ground missiles. But in this form, this air defense will be mainly used as support for the infantry. And for this, Derivation is too expensive. It's like hammering nails with a microscope.
        1. Revival
          Revival 31 August 2020 22: 08 New
          +1
          Exactly!
          I, who is not a specialist, but who has been on fire, has nothing to add.
          Efficiency in question.
        2. Cympak
          Cympak 31 August 2020 22: 12 New
          +1
          Most likely there is only an optical-electronic locator + a laser rangefinder, and the primary reconnaissance of air targets is carried out by another vehicle equipped with a radar, for example, "Assembly" or "Garmon". After that, "Derivation" searches for the target in the sector received from the external designator with the optics.
        3. sivuch
          sivuch 1 September 2020 09: 56 New
          +2
          Please do not confuse a hedgehog and a snake. There are projectiles with a programmable fuse and there are UAS (or KAS) - guided (corrected) projectiles with laser-command guidance. The first are, about the second, silence has been for several years, although Petrel was pushing the AU of 57mm caliber precisely in combination with KAS .KAS could give an extra 2-3 km of range and 1-2 km of ceiling. The programmable fuse will be fully operational in difficult weather conditions, which, by the way, affect both sides, i.e. on ASP and UAVs of the enemy too.
          There is no Sotska, as, for example, Strela-10 did not. The latter could be obtained from PU-12, Gadfly / Assemblies (these are control points, if anyone does not know) or from the neighboring Tunguska. And in Angola and the Iraqi region, they shot down even without an external control center.
          The complex is designed not only to combat UAVs (the above was a list of targets) and it works not only during the day - now, thank God, everyone has TPV. That is, it is all-day, although not all-weather. And the fight against NC is already a nice bonus.
          1. dgonni
            dgonni 1 September 2020 16: 46 New
            -1
            I am not confusing! A programmable projectile like the same erlikon could not be done. And the programming of the projectile is carried out after the projectile is ejected from the barrel by a laser on the initial trajectory! Therefore, a kind of weight in yourself for good weather. And the absence of radar and external target designation makes this complex almost completely useless in terms of air defense
            1. sivuch
              sivuch 1 September 2020 17: 35 New
              +1
              Not just for the good. For any but the worst, since the range is still very small.
              Useless? And how many real targets were shot down by Strela-10, which, without its radar, is aware of it?
              1. dgonni
                dgonni 1 September 2020 18: 39 New
                0
                Except for the range launches, then maybe a dozen and a half and typed. This is if you take it with Angola. And that's another question.
                And what does this have to do with the missile system for direct cover to the Derivation artillery system?
                Of course, if the derivation was put into production in '76, it would be an unambiguous breakthrough. But to compare with the ancient missile system is bad manners.
                1. sivuch
                  sivuch 2 September 2020 09: 26 New
                  0
                  So Woodation will do what Arrow-10 + does what Arrow cannot do by definition.
                  And this is not a question (by the way, it became interesting myself). The meaning of the question is that the ancient zrk did without his SOTSK and, usually, even without an external control center
                  1. dgonni
                    dgonni 2 September 2020 09: 36 New
                    0
                    Duc at the time of creation of the Arrow there were other goals and objectives. And the concept of a bus pilot in those days was something like a Flight. And the arrow was supposed to fight back mainly from helicopters and what will break through after any beeches. In modern realities, it will not detect a small drone, however, like Derivation. And the helicopter will launch a rocket from a distance of guaranteed non-defeat for an arrow. But the derivation could still be shot. But then if she had a radar for targeting like Thor.
                    And so?
                    1. sivuch
                      sivuch 2 September 2020 09: 50 New
                      0
                      The arrow, by the way, also shot down the A-10.
                      And why must there be a radar station of its own - it can be someone else's, at least the Accordion. The main thing is to transfer the control center to the BM with automatic reversal of the APU. Nobody assumes that BM will operate alone in the 360 ​​degree sector and 24/7.
                      And for the rotorcraft, the guaranteed distance is a thing in itself. The same timbering will be very difficult to find and it may be closer than the helicopter crew thinks. And looking for a target above the battlefield for the helicopter crew is also not so easy. The range of a helicopter missile launcher can be at least 30 km, but the ability to detect a moving target is several times less
                      1. dgonni
                        dgonni 2 September 2020 10: 58 New
                        0
                        We are just starting to produce helicopters with an overhead reconnaissance radar! They have been massively used for mattresses for the Apache since 1997! And if you take it even further over the years, then in Europe, already since 1987, the Americans had a massively shock reconnaissance modification OH-58D with a TV camera located above the sleeve, infrared night vision sensors and a laser rangefinder, a target designator. so in terms of detecting any targets from the enemy, everything is very gut.
                        Therefore, in Soviet times, on planning, the average life of a tank on the battlefield was in the region of 4-5 minutes.
                        P.S. To understand the catastrophic and absurdity of Derivation in this form, find a video on the Internet on the use of Erlikon with a programmable projectile. It clearly presents the system, surveillance radar for reconnaissance and target designation, combat vehicles receiving data for firing, and the operation of the system. Given the 57mm caliber of the Derivation, in this configuration it would be really useful and formidable. And so not enough air defense, not enough infantry support, not enough anti-tank system.
                      2. sivuch
                        sivuch 3 September 2020 09: 24 New
                        0
                        If you want to see something at 20-30 km, then the ball above the bushing is still not enough - you need to climb at least 20-30 meters. And I myself know what anyone had, I also wrote articles about it.
                        Once again, there is no complete need for your SOTSK. Control center from PU-12, Ranzhira or other KPU mastered a long time ago. Moreover, with an automatic turn of the APU or tower towards the target.
                        You seem to be writing for the third time that in its current form, Derivation cannot work as an air defense tool - so why? Just because another type of work has been chosen for the fuses? so it is no worse.
  2. KCA
    KCA 31 August 2020 13: 59 New
    -2
    How were the tests carried out? Projectile simulators? How will the gos go, also imitators of shells?
  3. Mountain shooter
    Mountain shooter 31 August 2020 14: 35 New
    +3
    Quote: vvvjak
    Do you already have shells for it? Those with remote detonation.

    You probably didn't mean shells, but fuses. Which are programmed when fired, and detonated on a trajectory with high accuracy in range. Usually there is a rev counter (rifled gun, the projectile rotates). There are such fuses, the appearance of shells with such fuses is a near future.
  • Ingvar 72
    Ingvar 72 31 August 2020 13: 48 New
    +2
    As a teapot in this topic, the question arises - how much is it now advisable to make a car only (!) With artillery weapons?
    1. Zaurbek
      Zaurbek 31 August 2020 14: 01 New
      +5
      The price of a projectile is lower than the price of a rocket ..... and UAVs are cheap ..... and in combination with a modern LMS, the probability of hitting is quite high, and 57mm gives a high hit height.
      1. Aleksandr1971
        Aleksandr1971 31 August 2020 17: 20 New
        -5
        Why do we need a whole menagerie of air defense weapons: Derivation, Pine, Shell, etc. etc.? I feel that these systems duplicate each other for their intended purpose. But in war, and in economic terms, this can turn out sideways.

        This sounds a lot like the redundant variety of rifles and artillery systems in the 19th century Russian army.
        1. Revival
          Revival 31 August 2020 22: 10 New
          0
          Here is a sensible idea!
    2. Cyril G ...
      Cyril G ... 31 August 2020 14: 06 New
      +2
      In my opinion, it is not always logical to cram something that is not packed. And in general, in the army air defense and air force I see no problem to have mixed batteries from the platoon of Derivations and the platoon of the Pantsyr air defense missile system (without cannons but with missiles, like the arctic) ..

      I will repeat myself. For instance. I know how things are in reality, but I propose to consider this option.
      1. Grazdanin
        Grazdanin 31 August 2020 14: 50 New
        +3
        Quote: Cyril G ...
        In my opinion, it is not always logical to cram something that is not packed.

        I totally agree.
        In my opinion, the optimal combination is "Derivation-Air Defense" + something like "Rat" against flying little things. https://topwar.ru/174438-na-armii-2020-predstavili-mobilnyj-kompleks-rat-dlja-borby-s-bpla.html
        Leave missile armament on the armor, increasing the number and longer-range missiles. That could withstand a MALE class UAV.
        1. Cyril G ...
          Cyril G ... 31 August 2020 15: 00 New
          0
          Quote: Grazdanin
          In my opinion, the optimal combination is "Derivation-Air Defense" + something like "Rat" against flying little things. https://topwar.ru/174438-na-armii-2020-predstavili-mobilnyj-kompleks-rat-dlja-borby-s-bpla.html
          Leave missile armament on the armor, increasing the number and longer-range missiles. That could withstand a MALE class UAV.


          Yes, something like that. The only thing he is not sure about is the need to cut the long-range missile defense system for the Pantsyr. We forget, Derivation is an element of the army air defense system.
          So the battery should cover the Buk complex.
          In general, an increase in the effective range of APs with IS and large UAVs, in turn, raises the question that the Buk complex should go to the divisional level.
          1. Grazdanin
            Grazdanin 31 August 2020 16: 14 New
            +3
            Quote: Cyril G ...
            The only thing he is not sure about is the need to cut the long-range missile defense system for the Pantsyr.

            I think it is necessary, it seems that they even showed it. For MALE, the BUK is redundant, the target is not maneuverable, so the range of the Pantsir missiles is not so difficult to increase.
            At the moment there are 2 main groups of UAVs, the first are small, converted civilian or reconnaissance / kamikaze launches from the hands against them Rat and Derivation is ideal. The second class is MALE, there is already a cannon and the current lasers cannot be obtained, the REP is useless. BUK is redundant, 57E6E is on the verge of defeat, some have already gone beyond the range.
          2. sivuch
            sivuch 1 September 2020 09: 59 New
            0
            it is necessary to cut, but not for a formal increase in the range, but for a more confident hitting a target in the near zone - for example, the target parameter must be increased.
        2. Cyril G ...
          Cyril G ... 31 August 2020 23: 16 New
          0
          Quote: Grazdanin
          optimal combination "Derivation-PVO"


          I changed my mind. It makes sense to produce a new caliber, or rather, existing in absolutely trace quantities in the fleet.
          And I remembered about these cars



          Chinese ZSU based on AK-176. It is capable of hitting targets at an altitude of 7 km and a range of up to 15 km.
      2. garri-lin
        garri-lin 31 August 2020 17: 11 New
        0
        The carapace is redundant. It should be simpler. Cheaper. Nails on the same chassis. Pine. I don't know what is cheap and massive.
        1. Cyril G ...
          Cyril G ... 31 August 2020 17: 56 New
          0
          In principle, I agree. I would prefer to remove the guns from Pantsyr and add missiles, as in the Arctic and the case is over.
          The question is about Derivation, what kind of ZSU we definitely need. But to what extent is the 57 mm caliber justified ...
          1. garri-lin
            garri-lin 31 August 2020 18: 37 New
            +1
            It is possible to create a guided ammunition in 57 mm caliber. Not undermining, but rather a deviation from the original trajectory. This will eventually replace near-field missiles. A round from a projectile with a guided detonation at small unmanned vehicles, MLRS missiles, ATGMs, KABs, etc. A guided projectile for more difficult targets. OTRK, missiles with a complex trajectory.
            1. Revival
              Revival 31 August 2020 22: 14 New
              0
              Quite right, especially since we do not shine with micro electronics
              1. garri-lin
                garri-lin 31 August 2020 22: 39 New
                +1
                It is difficult to do controlled in a smaller caliber. And expensive.
  • venik
    venik 31 August 2020 14: 13 New
    0
    "....The complex is designed to combat aircraft and cruise missiles, aircraft, helicopters, drones, as well as with single MLRS shells, it is also possible to use it against ground and surface lightly armored targets.... "
    ========
    A very useful thing !!! Especially against drones! This topic (drones) has become very relevant in recent years. Progress in microelectronics and communications made it possible not only to acquire remotely controlled "toys" capable of carrying loads from several hundred grams to several kilograms, but also to produce them even in artisanal conditions !! And the methods of struggle - alas! It is too expensive to shoot missiles ..... Electronic warfare means also do not always work (especially if such a drone flies according to the established navigation program. There remains only cannon artillery - "cheap and cheerful"!
    ---------
    ".....The new Derivation-Air Defense self-propelled anti-aircraft artillery complex will begin to enter the armed forces in 2022. ...... The "Derivation-Air Defense" complex was first presented at the "Army-2018" forum...... "
    =========
    Four years is fast enough ..... Especially in the conditions of "sanctions", when it is impossible to buy imported electronics - everything has to be adjusted at home! Well done boys!!!
    1. Cyril G ...
      Cyril G ... 31 August 2020 14: 30 New
      -3
      Quote: venik
      A very useful thing !!! Especially against drones!


      57 mm projectile on a drone weighing 5-10 kilograms? Are you sure this is a good idea?
      1. A009
        A009 31 August 2020 14: 38 New
        +3
        This is a great idea, considering that the alternative is more often than not a rocket.
        1. Cyril G ...
          Cyril G ... 31 August 2020 14: 51 New
          -2
          For very small drones with such a projectile?
          1. Senka naughty
            Senka naughty 31 August 2020 15: 24 New
            +3
            Quote: Cyril G ...
            For very small drones with such a projectile?

            No, no, of course not, for especially small ones we will spit with a cherry pit. No. How do you propose to shoot down small drones?
            1. Cyril G ...
              Cyril G ... 31 August 2020 15: 28 New
              -2
              Laser and microwave. We must still understand that the use of art makes you seriously consider the dangerous sectors of the shooting.
              1. Senka naughty
                Senka naughty 31 August 2020 15: 48 New
                +2
                I agree that dangerous sectors must be taken into account. Honestly, I am far from laser and microwave weapons, but as far as I know, they are all hospitalized. A derivation-air defense is created to support troops directly in the "field", with its ability to work on the move. And for the defense of objects, airfields, etc. laser is what you need. An amateur's opinion. hi
                1. Grazdanin
                  Grazdanin 31 August 2020 16: 05 New
                  +1
                  Quote: Senka Mad
                  as far as I know they are all inpatient

                  There have been mobile complexes for a long time.
                  https://topwar.ru/174438-na-armii-2020-predstavili-mobilnyj-kompleks-rat-dlja-borby-s-bpla.html
                  1. Senka naughty
                    Senka naughty 31 August 2020 16: 40 New
                    +1
                    How long has it been? First presented at Army-2020 smile
                    But I'm not talking about, but about the expediency of using this expensive toy to support infantry and tanks. For the protection of the rear, it is possible to "park" it, deployed the monitor. On the front end, she has absolutely nothing to do.
                    1. Grazdanin
                      Grazdanin 31 August 2020 16: 44 New
                      0
                      This particular model is in the 20th. Peresvet appeared before the age of 17. The United States began to put laser weapons on ships, in our country on ground equipment. To whom is more important.
              2. garri-lin
                garri-lin 31 August 2020 17: 16 New
                0
                What the Dereviation can handle, the laser cannot. Or two cars, one of which is narrow spec. Or one station wagon.
      2. venik
        venik 31 August 2020 21: 08 New
        +1
        Quote: Cyril G ...
        57 mm projectile on a drone weighing 5-10 kilograms? Are you sure this is a good idea?

        ========
        Can you suggest something better??
        1. Cyril G ...
          Cyril G ... 31 August 2020 21: 09 New
          0
          Quote: venik
          Quote: Cyril G ...
          57 mm projectile on a drone weighing 5-10 kilograms? Are you sure this is a good idea?

          ========
          Can you suggest something better??


          We have 30 mm rapid-fire massive guns in the Army, the Navy and the Aerospace Forces.
          1. Cyril G ...
            Cyril G ... 31 August 2020 21: 22 New
            -1
            And than to produce an extra caliber, I would prefer to take what is, ZSU based on AK-176
      3. Interlocutor
        Interlocutor 31 August 2020 23: 35 New
        +2
        57 mm projectile on a drone weighing 5-10 kilograms? Are you sure this is a good idea?

        Yes. If a projectile is detonated within 30 meters from the target and a rocket or drone is blown away by a cloud of debris. Or draw another option.
        1. Tamer
          Tamer 1 September 2020 12: 20 New
          -1
          I draw)) The projectile is detonated 30 meters away from the target and a cloud of debris (Are you serious about a cloud of debris from 57x480R?) Demolishes nothing))
          1. Interlocutor
            Interlocutor 1 September 2020 21: 24 New
            0
            I draw)) The projectile is detonated 30 meters away from the target and a cloud of debris (Are you serious about a cloud of debris from 57x480R?) Demolishes nothing))

            Yes, I'm serious. In one way or another, it works like that. Take not 30 meters. Take 5 meters. Take 10 meters. Take 30 cm.
    2. SovAr238A
      SovAr238A 31 August 2020 14: 59 New
      0
      Quote: venik

      Four years is fast enough ..... Especially in the conditions of "sanctions", when it is impossible to buy imported electronics - everything has to be adjusted at home! Well done boys!!!


      state contract No. N / 3/3 / 81-2013-DGOZ
      From 2013 year.
      So not 4 but 9.

      Most of the management system is Belarusian. From Peleng.
      Their modules are assembled into blocks at our place and are issued for Russian production.

      Put your hats back, winter is coming.
    3. Revival
      Revival 31 August 2020 22: 17 New
      0
      Basically I agree, but 4 years are unreasonable for a gun
    4. psiho117
      psiho117 31 August 2020 22: 45 New
      0
      Quote: venik
      Especially in the conditions of "sanctions", when it is impossible to buy imported electronics

      As they bought in China and Singapore, they are still buying ...
  • sav
    sav 31 August 2020 14: 40 New
    +4
    I wonder if there are any plans to spoil this ZAK? The "partners" have a shipboard Oerlikon of 35 mm caliber, with programmable detonation, we only have Pantsir-M without it in the series.
    1. Senka naughty
      Senka naughty 31 August 2020 15: 39 New
      +2
      Quote: sav
      I wonder if there are any plans to spoil this ZAK? The "partners" have a shipboard Oerlikon of 35 mm caliber, with programmable detonation, we only have Pantsir-M without it in the series.


      In early February, a representative of the Uralvagonzavod corporation told RIA Novosti about the development of a naval version of the complex for new Russian ships. According to the designers, this gun mount will be no less effective than short-range and short-range shipborne anti-aircraft missile systems, but at the same time its operation will be much cheaper. (ria.ru)
    2. Cyril G ...
      Cyril G ... 31 August 2020 20: 14 New
      -1
      Quote: sav
      Are there any plans to discourage this ZAK?


      What for? than 57mm is better than the naval 76mm gun?
  • SovAr238A
    SovAr238A 31 August 2020 14: 50 New
    +1
    I can't understand where the commentators have an opinion that projectiles with a programmable detonation time will be used, if in this complex, in its OLS, its target designation system - guidance is used by a laser beam ???

    If someone thinks that we will change the shells for new ones and "trample everything" - I assure you, it will not trample ...

    It will be necessary to change the entire detection, tracking and guidance system very globally ...

    And this will be a completely different technique.

    And in pursuit ...
    I don’t understand the meaning of this derivation-air defense.

    The presence of only a passive optical-location system.
    Single channel detection / tracking / guidance.
    The detection range of a Fontom-3/4 type drone does not exceed 600-700 meters ...
    Strong weather dependence.
    In bad weather, it will not be able to protect against a flock of drones flying by binding the coordinates of the route and hitting the GPS.

    Another unmatched product in the world.
    1. sav
      sav 31 August 2020 15: 15 New
      +1
      Quote: SovAr238A
      I can't understand where the commentators have an opinion that projectiles with programmable detonation time will be used

      The commentators have more hope that this caliber will finally be realized with controlled disruption. 30 mm is not enough for this, 37 and 45 mm are not used.
    2. A009
      A009 31 August 2020 16: 14 New
      0
      Maybe this information is taken from your own link to the state contract?
    3. Grazdanin
      Grazdanin 31 August 2020 16: 32 New
      +2
      In addition to Derivation, you need a detection and targeting machine. It can be equipped with a REB and a laser, or it can be taken out in a separate machine. One expensive car stuffed with electronics and 3-4 relatively cheap Derivations. Turks and Germans follow this path.
      1. garri-lin
        garri-lin 31 August 2020 17: 21 New
        +1
        And also a car with rockets.
      2. sivuch
        sivuch 1 September 2020 10: 05 New
        0
        In addition to Derivation, you need a detection and targeting machine.
        Actually, they are. I wrote above - already Strela-10 quite normally received a command control from the Gadfly or Tunguska. But the Gadfly accompanied more targets.
        1. Cyril G ...
          Cyril G ... 1 September 2020 10: 52 New
          0
          Quote: sivuch
          Control center from the Gadfly


          What is that?
          1. sivuch
            sivuch 1 September 2020 11: 01 New
            +1
            Mobile point of reconnaissance and control PPRU-1 Ovod
            https://missilery.info/missile/strela10m/ovod
            1. Cyril G ...
              Cyril G ... 1 September 2020 11: 06 New
              0
              I understood thanks
    4. garri-lin
      garri-lin 31 August 2020 17: 19 New
      +3
      In the weather in which Dereviation will not see the drones, the drones will not see anything either. And perhaps they will not be able to fly.
      1. SovAr238A
        SovAr238A 31 August 2020 17: 35 New
        0
        Quote: garri-lin
        In the weather in which Dereviation will not see the drones, the drones will not see anything either. And perhaps they will not be able to fly.


        In rainy weather with low cloudiness, drones with GPS routing are excellent at attacking areas, at radio emission sources, at the required acoustic signatures ...
        1. garri-lin
          garri-lin 31 August 2020 17: 40 New
          +1
          How rainy is the weather? So that the OLS with a thermal imager does not see the downpour should not be weak.
          1. SovAr238A
            SovAr238A 31 August 2020 20: 18 New
            +1
            Quote: garri-lin
            How rainy is the weather? So that the OLS with a thermal imager does not see the downpour should not be weak.

            The phantom, which is a drone, is visible only from 700 meters in clear weather ...
            And this is in almost ideal conditions.
            And the drone is not weak. Even household.
            Probably you saw the footage of the barmaley dropping mines from them into the midst of the soldiers or directly into the tank hatch?
            In ideal conditions and only 700 ...

            And what will happen in low clouds, where visibility is only 200?
            1. garri-lin
              garri-lin 31 August 2020 21: 00 New
              0
              Is it with the eyes or advanced multispectral optics?
              1. SovAr238A
                SovAr238A 31 August 2020 21: 47 New
                +1
                Quote: garri-lin
                Is it with the eyes or advanced multispectral optics?

                This is the range of confident capture ...
                1. garri-lin
                  garri-lin 31 August 2020 22: 01 New
                  0
                  Not enough. A proof for Old is possible. Get acquainted.
        2. sivuch
          sivuch 1 September 2020 10: 08 New
          +1
          Those. not at all. Or the accuracy will be plus or minus a verst. And stationary targets are generally easier and faster to process with art.
          1. SovAr238A
            SovAr238A 1 September 2020 11: 33 New
            +2
            Quote: sivuch
            Those. not at all. Or the accuracy will be plus or minus a verst. And stationary targets are generally easier and faster to process with art.

            Yes Yes.
            The shelling of Khmeimim, shelling of Turkish and Syrian checkpoints are all from a different universe ..
            In the DPR / LPR - they didn't throw anything from drones either ...

            Whether you like it or not, partisans and barmaley have been and will be ...

            And you keep thinking in terms of tank columns and massive shelling.
            1. sivuch
              sivuch 1 September 2020 14: 22 New
              0
              1) In rainy weather with low cloudiness, drones with GPS routing are perfect for attacking areas, radio emission sources, required acoustic signatures ...
              2) Yes, yes.
              Shelling of Khmeimim, shelling of Turkish and Syrian checkpoints are all from another universe.
              Now, please tell us how these statements are combined? Do barmaley put acoustic sensors on their products?
              1. SovAr238A
                SovAr238A 1 September 2020 14: 33 New
                +2
                Quote: sivuch
                1) In rainy weather with low cloudiness, drones with GPS routing are perfect for attacking areas, radio emission sources, required acoustic signatures ...
                2) Yes, yes.
                Shelling of Khmeimim, shelling of Turkish and Syrian checkpoints are all from another universe.
                Now, please tell us how these statements are combined? Do barmaley put acoustic sensors on their products?

                As it turned out, even barmaley can program Arduino ...
                And now even home-made drones on blue electrical tape fly to Khmeimim using GPS routing.


                And there are a lot of sound sensors on Aliexpress.
                Writing the signatures of tank engines is not even very difficult and putting it into Arduino is not a problem, as it turns out ...
                1. sivuch
                  sivuch 1 September 2020 17: 40 New
                  0
                  That is, by area, with appropriate accuracy (or rather, inaccuracy).
                  It may not be difficult to write down the signatures, but determining the coordinates with the required accuracy is a big question, especially when there is a lot of noise, from different sources and with the presence of other sources. But first, is there generally more or less reliable evidence of the practical use of acoustic sensors?
  • Izotovp
    Izotovp 31 August 2020 15: 50 New
    0
    It would be supplemented with Hermes in vertical containers and a retractable radar like a helicopter overhead radar.
  • Lontus
    Lontus 31 August 2020 21: 21 New
    +2
    Was it tested in combat conditions? ... For example in Syria.
    1. Interlocutor
      Interlocutor 31 August 2020 23: 39 New
      0
      Was it tested in combat conditions? ... For example in Syria

      They wrote that yes
  • Victorio
    Victorio 31 August 2020 23: 28 New
    -1
    as criticism. the most interesting thing in the article is photography.
  • paco.soto
    paco.soto 31 August 2020 23: 29 New
    +1
    I immediately remembered the ZSU-57-2 anti-aircraft gun. Armament. Dimensions. Reservation.
    http://oruzhie.info/vojska-pvo/416-zsu-57-2
    https://www.militaryfactory.com/armor/detail.asp?armor_id=399
    There was such a touch of the Soviet designers that if it was further improved, there would be a good weapon.
  • Gust
    Gust 1 September 2020 11: 54 New
    0
    Good car. It lacks several Needle / Willow missiles. Then she would be able to fire at two targets at least independently. Like a helicopter on a jump.

    And the control center is desirable external - from the Shell / Tunga / Thor, etc. Alone, the machine is ineffective - without a circular view of the SOC.
  • Turist1996
    Turist1996 2 September 2020 16: 44 New
    0
    Frankly speaking, I don’t quite understand the place of this complex in the air defense system .. Which of the existing systems should it replace? Or a "gap" between which to close? I was thinking something, but I didn't come to something intelligible for myself.
  • Hiller
    Hiller 2 September 2020 17: 05 New
    0
    "Albanian question": which subdivisions (OSHS) are going to complete and instead of which systems ???