Had 6 hours of practical driving: the details of the investigation into the death of the M2A3 Bradley driver were announced in the USA

The US military has decided to reform the training program for armored vehicle drivers and to dismiss three junior commanders at the Humphries base in South Korea.

This is the reaction of the command after investigating the specific reasons for the death of 20-year-old American serviceman Nicholas Panipinto. The soldier died last year while driving a Bradley combat vehicle at the said American military base during routine training. Then two more American soldiers were injured and injured.

During the investigation, it turned out that Panipinto at that time had only six hours of practical driving of a combat vehicle - before being sent to South Korea.

The mother of the deceased soldier says that the firing of three junior commanders at Humphreys is a "scapegoat":

Senior command is unwilling to be held accountable when tragedies occur. Three representatives of the lower command staff were thrown under the rink, and they themselves want to evade responsibility.

The mother of the deceased soldier claims that he did not even have time to get a certificate for the right to drive the M2A3 Bradley.

Additionally, it turned out that on the day of the tragic incident, there were serious problems with sending the wounded Nicholas Panipinto to the hospital. The dispatch took place only two hours after the accident with the armored vehicle. The reason, as stated, was that the M2A3 Bradley had a faulty communications system. And the helicopter, which was supposed to transport the seriously injured soldier, initially delivered him to the wrong place.

From the report of the US Congressional Research Committee:

32% of deaths in active military service between 2006 and 2018 were the result of accidents. During hostilities - 16%.

Comments

[tralflot1832]

This does not remind you of anything. For those who are especially forgetful on June 22, 1941. Our mechanic drivers had more driving hours even then. And some here suggest to be equal to these?

[Same lech]

You remembered this date out of place ... here there is sloppiness and a violation of safety measures which, as you know, is written in blood.
In our army, too, many similar cases occur from time to time.

[Insurgent]

During the investigation, it turned out that Panipinto at that time had only six hours of practical driving of a combat vehicle - before being sent to South Korea.

A case from my practice.
While the unit was at the training ground, the command was given the opportunity for those who wish master driving BMP-1.
As a result, all servicemen, who previously did not have the skills to drive a fairly large tracked vehicle, but who had the skill of driving cars with manual transmission, literally in minutes, with the help of an instructor, mastered the launch of the car and quite confidently passed the driving route.

IN MINUTES.

Therefore "six hours of practical driving"This is either a fiction on paper, a formal reply from the command, or the driver was an oak-oak tree, or the training of drivers is structured in such a way that they teach so that they do not teach anything ...

[Jack O'Neill]

IN MINUTES.

Therefore, "six hours of practical driving" is either a fiction on paper, an unsubscribe from the command, or the mechanic was an oak-oak, or the training of drivers is structured in such a way that they teach in such a way that they do not teach anything ..

 Show / Hide text

At a military training ground in the Chelyabinsk region, a conscript soldier died. He fell under the tank and received injuries incompatible with life, reports the local portal 31tv.ru.

“On January 17, 2018, during routine training in driving combat vehicles, as a result of a gross violation of safety requirements, a tank driver received injuries incompatible with life. To establish the reasons and circumstances of the incident, a commission of the headquarters of the military district is working on the spot, ”the press service of the Central Military District (CVO) told Lente.ru.

This happens everywhere, be it the United States or Russia - it doesn't matter.

[Prisoner]

An armored personnel carrier, I would understand, is by and large familiar there. But what about the skills of driving a car and so fast BMP? Looks like talented guys served you.

[Insurgent]

Quote: Captive

An armored personnel carrier, I would understand, is by and large familiar there. But what about the skills of driving a car and so fast BMP? Looks like talented guys served you.

Well, the guys are not 18-20, but under 30-40 ... Not kids.

Separately, I note that the skill of driving an infantry fighting vehicle, in general the experience of driving / servicing a car or a tractor, especially a diesel engine, which will become known to the command, is the risk that you will be persistently "recruited" into mech.water, which for several reasons (in our conditions ) not good

[PSih2097]

Quote: Insurgent

Separately, I note that the skill of driving an infantry fighting vehicle, in general the experience of driving / servicing a car or a tractor, especially a diesel engine, which will become known to the command, is the risk that you will be persistently "recruited" into mech.water, which for several reasons (in our conditions ) not good

As far as I remember, there is a height restriction ... And so yes, we had 2 second armored personnel carriers and two eight-wheeled armored personnel carriers and one second mess, so the battalion commander voluntarily forced the whole platoon to learn how to use at least a "teapot" .. ...

[Insurgent]

Quote: PSih2097

as far as I remember there is a height restriction ...

Yes , I have a mechanical drive hatch, when I sometimes sat in his place, without a headset I just rested against the top of my head
Size is not mine

Quote: PSih2097

The battalion commander voluntarily forced the entire platoon to learn how to use it at least at the level of a "teapot" ...

What can I say ... You are lucky in this regard with the battalion commander Preparing for battle survival ...

[PSih2097]

Quote: Insurgent

Yes, laughing laughing laughing, I have a mechanical drive hatch, when I sometimes sat down in his place, without a headset I just rested against the top of my head wassat

my head was half sticking out of the hatch. sorry there are no photos (left with a friend from Krasnoyarsk).

[Boris Chernikov]

will they "recruit"? It's funny .. since when did the army begin to beg someone ..

[Insurgent]

Quote: Boris Chernikov

will they "recruit"? It's funny .. since when did the army begin to beg someone ..

In the NM (militia) of the DPR / LPR?

[Boris Chernikov]

nuuu, then only double basses and then at will ..

[Insurgent]

Quote: Boris Chernikov

nuuu, then only double basses and then at will ..

So with us all volunteer contractors ...

[EvilLion]

Only an instructor was sitting next to him and obviously driving along the road, albeit in the form of a track. What happened here FIG knows, in the armored vehicle there is still a review so-so, in any.

[Insurgent]

Quote: EvilLion

Only an instructor was sitting next to him and obviously driving along the road, albeit in the form of a track. What happened here FIG knows, in the armored vehicle there is still a review so-so, in any.

Yes, on the training ground, on the driving track. The instructor is not very close, but behind the mechanic, in the commander's place. Maybe if something happens, move his foot on the head
I must also note that training began with the hatch open and the seat raised ...

But I repeat, people who had never driven an infantry fighting vehicle before at all, but among them, even despite the shortness of the training course, there were people who gassed on straight sections of the route so that the command's caps were raised

[EvilLion]

At 19, there is no fear. Apparently, nature has invented it so that not all males live up to 30, but only the best.

[Insurgent]

Quote: EvilLion

At 19, there is no fear.

And I'm not writing about 19 year olds. If you look at it, then our drugs, the contingent, are generally quite old ...

[Piramidon]

Quote: Insurgent

But I repeat, people who had never driven an infantry fighting vehicle before at all sat at the wheel.

Maybe bulldozer tractor drivers. They are usually directed primarily to tracked armored vehicles

[Insurgent]

Quote: Piramidon

Maybe bulldozer tractor drivers. They are usually directed primarily to tracked armored vehicles

Do not try to discern in my comment what is not there.

I will explain again that loaders, sailors of the merchant fleet, welders, miners, the "popcart-overseer" of the ITU, and other contingent from
motorized infantry militias who previously did not have the skill of handling tracked vehicles.
"Tractor-bulldozer drivers", or those who served as an emergency mechanic for BMP, MTLB, tank, are "caught" even in the military registration and enlistment office ...

[grandfather_Kostya]

Similarly, before studying at the university, our group was sent to "reclaim" to collect stones and sticks from the fields on an iron sheet behind the tractor. In the very first days, several guys learned to drive a tractor across the field, and then they put the girls at the levers. The collective farm tractor driver spent the whole month playing cards in the furrow with his friends.

[Lionnvrsk]

I remember my military department ... After graduating from it and 2 months of training, I had the skill of practical driving a tank for a maximum of 1,5-2 hours. Here's a tank jacket.

[Insurgent]

Quote: LIONnvrsk

had the skill of practical driving a tank for a maximum of 1,5-2 hours

How did you feel at the time behind the levers?
And what would you get for another 4 extra hours of driving (for a total of 6)?

[Lionnvrsk]

1. Like a monkey with a grenade.
2. Nothing.

[Insurgent]

Quote: LIONnvrsk

1. Like a monkey with a grenade.
2. Nothing.

That is, you could not even start the engine on your own (provided that the technical parameters, oil, etc. are normal), and at least elementarily go through the driving route at the tankodrome under the guidance of an instructor who controls your actions?

[Lionnvrsk]

Theoretically it could have started, but it was not jammed, tk. there were no batteries and no air. And the route passed twice, with an Asian conscript sitting on the armor.

[Insurgent]

Quote: LIONnvrsk

And the route passed twice, with an Asian conscript sitting on the armor.

Asian conscript, "disposable" kamikaze? Or was it tightly screwed to the armor so that it would not fall off?

[Lionnvrsk]

"On the armor" conditionally. Stood in the commander's hatch. The students still laughed that he would drive us with an antenna over the head sticking out of the mechanic drive hatch.

[Boris Chernikov]

here it is important to understand something else .. that 2 hours for you and 6 hours for them. different things, you have exactly 2 hours on the spot with mech-water, and there may be 6 hours of general activities, of which in reality there may be an hour of driving in total .. I suspect that someone got through once allowed to go to the BMP without completing the courses .. this is a flight as we say

[bobba94]

The last phrase is completely inspired by Viktor Stepanovich Chernomyrdin. Not good ..... plagiarism, sir.

[Vadivak]

Quote: tralflot1832

For the especially forgetful June 22, 1941. Our driver mechanics had more hours of driving

Oh?
"... by the beginning of the war, the new crews did not have time to master the technique, many driver mechanics, for example, received only 1,5-2 hours of practice in driving tanks"
M. Baryatinsky
“The Red Army personnel of the 37th Panzer Division (KOVO), - he writes, - were 60% recruits from the May 1941 draft, completely untrained and not fully trained for a young soldier ... The situation was especially bad with the training of tank commanders and mechanics- drivers "R. Irinarkhov
a tractor driver from the village of Nadezhna (a former Cossack village, located near Petropavlovsk in northern Kazakhstan) - Grigory Sakharov - got into the airborne troops. Already during his service in the Airborne Forces he was "dragged" to the Special Department, trying to find out why he did not become a tanker ...
“In order to save motor resources, the Red Army Armored Directorate did not allow us to conduct combat training of crews on new tanks.
About ten days before the start of the war, the head of this department, Lieutenant General of Tank Forces Ya. N. Fedorenko, visited us. I asked him for permission to conduct exercises on new combat vehicles so that the driver mechanics could practice driving their tanks, but he did not allow and hinted that in the near future conditions may arise when everyone will have more practice. For this, it is necessary to save the motor resource. "
General D.I. Ryabyshev, in the 41st he commanded the 8th mechanized corps of the Red Army as part of the Kiev special district

[EvilLion]

Well, at least some mechanized drives and tanks are better than any mechanized drives without tanks at all. But in general, the recruits of May 41, it’s as if just without comments, such could only get into battle while in the western districts, already in 1942, almost all recruits underwent training for at least 3 months.

[210ox]

What is it for? No, it doesn't.

[taiga2018]

The good news is, let them have as many of these "specialists" as possible.

[aszzz888]

These are the problems of the Merikatos, let them rake their own manure.

[NDR-791]

It’s bad they just realized it too early. It would be nice for the enemy to find out about this in battle.

[Thrifty]

This only confirms the truth that statutes are written in blood, in any country in the world. ..

[Masha]

It's a mess, it's a mess in Africa too

[Mouse]

The soldier died last year

This is normal a year later ...
The decision on reforming has been made, and how much more will be reformed ........

[rocket757]

Savings, reductions and all the attendant ... the situation is not new, just someone when it overtakes.

[Free wind]

Most likely there was a fall from a height, the soldiers in their equipment ride, and a collision with something at a speed of 50-60 km is unlikely to threaten with serious injuries. The mechanic had the usual rights, and they got them there, without fail. The commanders are sure to test their driving skills, and they are unlikely to release an inexperienced driver on a difficult track. Most likely the car broke down.

[Mouse]

Maybe everything is easier?
It wasn’t a bobbin,
not in candles and not in rubber ...
it's not even about gasoline ...
Was the blockhead sitting in the car?

[Nyrobsky]

Quote: Free Wind

The commanders are sure to test their driving skills, and they are unlikely to release an inexperienced driver on a difficult track. Most likely the car broke down.

It is they in their states that they observe something else, and in the countries of the "colonies" where they are deployed, they don't care how many hours of practical driving, because there they can violate traffic rules, go to the houses of civilians and generally "walk a flaw", all the same, they will not be accountable to anyone. So I drove where it is not necessary and how it is not necessary.

[Prisoner]

Six hours of driving and forward to attack? It's even ridiculous to talk about military training "in a real way".

[Mouse]

From place to quarry

[Shuttle]

There is absolutely nothing about the details of the incident. Infa filed as if driving an infantry fighting vehicle, the unfortunate driver killed himself to death in peacetime only because of the alleged lack of experience in driving this type of equipment.
Any real details?

[g1washntwn]

It is not surprising that in Syria they rush along the roads like chickens in the yard.

[Dedok]

Quote: tralflot1832

This does not remind you of anything. For those who are especially forgetful on June 22, 1941. Our mechanic drivers had more driving hours even then. And some here suggest to be equal to these?

dress?
you confused something? - There should not be any "shapkozakidatelny mood": you probably heard - "the armor is strong and our tanks are fast ..."?

[hagen]

The soldier died last year while driving a Bradley combat vehicle on the territory of the said American military base during routine training.

From the details of the investigation, the article only says that a soldier died during training sessions. Ie, the soldier was taught practical driving.

The mother of the deceased soldier claims that he did not even have time to get a certificate for the right to drive the M2A3 Bradley.

Obviously, it was a salabon in the initial period of training. The circumstances of the incident are not known. What is the dispute about? A six hour driving experience? At the beginning of training, this happens to everyone. Their practical driving experience is measured in hours, with us - in kilometers. He was not sent to live-fire exercises with such experience. At half of the standard obstacles that must be overcome at the tankodrome, if you wish, you can turn the BMP over and break the neck. The mechanic, when landing "in a combat" way, sees very little, and when hitting some obstacles, he sees only the sky. If, in addition, he is afraid of a confined space, then he could well lose his orientation in space and start writing out a pretzel with the wheel of a pretzel. For this, a mechanic is taught on training fields and on simulators so that he can drive safely in a real situation. From my own experience, I remember that our medical helicopters were not on duty while driving.

[Mikhail3]

How wise! However, in order for the soldier not to break his neck, they begin to teach him with exercises where the neck must NOT be broken. If a person had 6 hours of collision, how could he be driven onto puzzling obstacles at the tankodrome? I'll tell you how. Yes, you yourself know ... Lesson hours for a young driver are being drawn up. Fuels and lubricants are debited to them. Classes, of course, are not held. And when the time has come to pass the standards, the driver is pushed onto the landfill so that he can somehow pass. They close their eyes to the fact that he bypasses half of the obstacles. The profit is received, and not sickly! But the guy did not cope with the second half.
Three punished - organizers and executors of the sale of fuels and lubricants. The head of the base and the functionaries who receive the main profit remained on the sidelines, as usual. Familiar situation, right?)

[hagen]

Quote: Mikhail3

However, in order for the soldier not to break his neck, they begin to teach him with exercises where the neck must NOT be broken. If a person had 6 hours of collision, how could he be driven onto puzzling obstacles at the tankodrome?

If we translate into an analogy according to SA, 6 hours of driving will correspond to approximately 60-75 km of experience out of 150 provided for the training of a driver-mechanic at a tankodrome (after these 150 there will be another 100 km of march and qualification) So that 6 hours is not as little as it might seem. The head can be broken on all obstacles, except, perhaps, the rut in the cost center. The layout of the bridge, a moat, even a counter-escarp and a stop on the rise, if they are on an artificial mountain, can, under the coincidence of circumstances, lead to the car overturning. And Bradley, if you noticed, has a very tall silhouette. It is easier to overturn it than our BMP-1,2.

Quote: Mikhail3

I'll tell you how. Yes, you yourself know ... Lesson hours for a young driver are being drawn up. Fuels and lubricants are debited to them.

Apparently, you did not deal with this business, therefore you reason so. As a company commander for training mv, I was vitally interested in my cadets driving along the track of the tankodrome through all obstacles and keeping within the speed limit for class 3 mv. At training tank courses, as a rule, the track is broken up so that it is not very easy to keep within the prescribed 19 km / h. So it is still possible to check in on the PMP or even a combatant class, forgive. But specialized subjects of driving and technical training were carried out "blood from the nose". Despite the fact that the commanders of the training units also drove and ran, because at the check at the end of the course, EVERYONE passed the standards. And the company will not receive a higher grade than the company commander. My company was "good" with a claim to be "excellent." A simple write-off of fuel and lubricants was not in my interests.

Quote: Mikhail3

And when the time has come to pass the standards, the driver is pushed onto the landfill so that he can somehow pass. They close their eyes to the fact that he bypasses half of the obstacles.

You, dear, served in the SA? Looks like no. If in a cropped regiment, somewhere in the dense Arctic, during the test "something like" could still be composed, then in the training at the final exams, when a regiment from the BP department of the district headquarters sits on the tower, on which, in case of something on traumatism untrained l / s fly, it is problematic to deceive. All obstacles from the tower are in full view of him. And the layout of the track bridge and the moat, even drunk, cannot be overlooked.

Quote: Mikhail3

Three punished - organizers and executors of the sale of fuels and lubricants

Under the Soviets, diesel fuel was not expensive. And the KR and KV of the training units are so far from the fuel and lubricants that in my memory they, except for a can of canned meat for a personal lunch in a regiment outfit, had nothing. Believe me, I have been doing this for more than five years and have personally taught so much that you can equip an entire MSD with them. Maybe today the commander of the training platoon himself writes off the fuel and lubricants and does not depend on the training of his cadets, which I doubt, but the SA had to, imagine, work, and not like a child. (especially if you want to grow in your career)

[Mikhail3]

Quote: Hagen

I was vitally interested

Than? What is "vitally" interested in? Did they give you a diploma? Did you promise another rank in turn? Less scolded? Or a wad of money regularly ...

[hagen]

Quote: Mikhail3

Than? What is "vitally" interested in?

You, obviously, do not understand ... You probably measure everything with "dough". We tried to grow from platoon to company commanders. At the same time, wages grew, frankly, not very much. But somehow I wanted to. Then the battalion commander. At the same time, they wanted to go to "warm spots" for combat experience. Yes, there were those who did their entire careers on the floor. Not without it. But the desire to sell stolen diesel fuel and technical property was much less than today. How are you there? Are bundles of money a priority? Oh well...

[Mikhail3]

Yes, I just understand) But why are you dragging this nostalgia for the old world here? The world is different now. And what happened is not what you are nostalgic about. Alas...

[hagen]

Quote: Mikhail3

But why are you dragging this nostalgia for the old world here?

Firstly, I have no nostalgia for those times. Secondly, it was you who began to push through the version of the theft of fuel and lubricants to the detriment of the training of a soldier in the SA with a claim to the massive nature of this phenomenon, although you yourself do not represent the subject of discussion. I agree with you that the world is different. Under the Soviets, for the version you presented in public correspondence, a man in uniform would have looked at you and asked where the fireballs came from, in the sense - information? For under the Code of Criminal Procedure of the RSFSR, information in the media about a crime was a pretext for initiating a criminal case. And today, out of boredom, you pour slop in different directions without any responsibility for your words. And nobody cares about you. But I think something will soon get better in this area.

[Mikhail3]

Quote: Hagen

... Secondly, it was you who started pushing through the version about the theft of fuel and lubricants to the detriment of the training of a soldier in the SA

Uncle, are you sick? Or badly wounded? Read the article? Whose army is it talking about? An unsatisfied woman seems to be the same everywhere. What CA ?! Go get some water ...

[hagen]

Quote: Mikhail3

What CA ?! Go get some water ...

When I talked about the training of a driver, I drew on my own experience in that direction, obtained in CA. And when you write to me "..... I'll tell you how. Yes, you yourself know ... The hours of classes for a young driver are being drawn up. Fuel and lubricants are being debited to them ....", obviously you assume that I served on that base about which article? With what hangover should I be "in the know"? I related your phrase to my experience. As you write, so I understand what you have written. If you want to be understood correctly, you express yourself correctly.

[Mikhail3]

How do I know what you THOUGHT, uncle? You never know what is crawling under your skull? In your presence, everyone should jump up and try to guess what are you up to there? So this is the internet, uncle. There are no field marshals here, despite the epaulets under the avatar. You are like everyone else, and I do not care what you thought there, if you did not clearly and clearly express this. And you carried nonsense on your own wave ... As for expressing yourself correctly, it's to the point, yeah.

[hagen]

Quote: Mikhail3

How do I know what you THOUGHT, uncle?

Well, and you also offer me some water to drink. Take it easy. Your inability to express your thoughts is treated with a Russian textbook. The fact that you don't care about anything and so can be seen. And we did not switch to "you". Keep yourself within the bounds of decency. After all, I didn’t stick epithets for you ... Although it’s the Internet, I think I’m quite capable of respecting the interlocutor ...

[Mikhail3]

Sale of fuel and lubricants on the left intended for driver training. I've seen this somewhere before, yeah ...

[rotmistr60]

32% of deaths in active military service between 2006 and 2018 were the result of accidents. During hostilities - 16%.

And another 52% as a result? Suicide, drugs ...? If a third die from accidents, can the number of bases abroad be reduced and the losses will decrease?

[PSih2097]

Quote: rotmistr60

Can you reduce the number of bases abroad and the losses will decrease?

does not help, incidents of such a glad in the states themselves are stupidly hushed up, but abroad it is already problematic to keep silent.

[ecolog]

for a regular car driving 50 hours somewhere it should be, and here BMP

[Ivan Tixiy]

Any army is an organized mess, the differences are only in its degree