From TsPSh to universities. As taught in the Russian Empire

According to the census conducted in 1920 in the RSFSR, 60% of those did not know how to read or write. Agree, this is somehow not very compatible with the statements that have been heard recently that under the Tsar-Father Russia had almost the best and, most importantly, affordable education system in the world. So how was it really?

In a rather fierce dispute between those who claim that the Bolsheviks got an absolutely illiterate country, and their opponents, foaming at the mouth, proving the opposite, the truth, as usual, lies somewhere in the middle. To prove this statement, I will allow myself to cite just one specific figure: according to the scientific work "Population of Russia for 100 years (1813-1913)" published before the revolution, at the end of the 63th century, about 1913% of those called up to serve in the Russian Imperial Army did not have a diploma. and in 33 - about XNUMX% of the recruits. From more than half to a third, the progress, you see, is impressive.

It happened mainly because it was at the beginning of the twentieth century that the empire saw a real, as they say today, "breakthrough" in the field of public education. At the same time, education, accessible to all estates, as such, appeared only after the abolition of serfdom. Until now, the peasantry (which constituted the absolute majority of the country's population) was almost completely illiterate. That is why I will consider the Russian education system from the very moment when it began to represent at least something really massive.

First of all, I would like to note that a number of government departments and, again speaking in modern terms, non-governmental organizations have been dealing with this issue in the country. The first among those who "sowed what is reasonable, kind, eternal" was, of course, the Ministry of Public Education. But on the second, no matter how shocking it may be to some wiseacres who consider the church to be an eternal persecutor of education and an outpost of obscurantism, there was the Synod of the Russian Orthodox Church. The departments of Empress Maria, the Imperial Philanthropic Society and other similar organizations were also involved in public education.

Specialized educational institutions stood somewhat apart: the military and naval ministries, the ministries of finance and the interior. I'll start with them. So, the future defenders of the Fatherland were trained (in descending order) in military academies, officer schools, cadet schools, cadet corps, as well as military gymnasiums and gymnasiums (the latter were one step lower than the first). Commercial schools and institutes can be considered another type of specialized educational institutions. The name comes not from the fact that they had to pay for training at commercial prices (almost all training was paid in the empire), but because it was the future businessmen who were taught there. A rough analogue of the future Soviet trade schools and institutes.

The educational institutions that belonged to the department of the church included not only theological academies, seminaries and schools, but also such, almost the most widespread type of educational institutions, as Sunday and parish schools. In the Sunday schools of that time, it was not only children who studied and studied there not only the Holy Scriptures. They also gave initial literacy (at the read-write level) and were equated with elementary schools. Parish schools (TsPSh) were the path to literacy for the absolute majority of the poor and needy population of the Russian Empire - after all, they were free and generally accessible.

The most widespread secondary educational institution in Russia was the gymnasium. It was there that it was necessary to pay for education and not everyone could afford such pleasure, even in the city. There was no need to talk about the villagers. Gymnasiums were divided into male and female, public and private, classical and real. The latter did not give the opportunity to go to university, since they did not study such an important subject as Latin. Subsequently, they were transformed into real schools, with emphasis on applied and exact sciences. Higher education after them could be obtained either technical or commercial.

For a completely impoverished public from the villages and from the workers' outskirts, in addition to the Central School of Arts, there were also other institutions belonging to the system of elementary public schools - zemstvo schools, for example. Education there went to one or two grades and lasted from 2 to 4 years. There were trade schools (for example, railways). A separate type of educational institutions were various women's courses and several institutes for noble maidens. Generally speaking, with the formation of the weaker sex in Russia, things were bad for everyone except for the nobility.

Also, a separate place in the educational system was occupied by institutions that trained personnel for itself. These include teachers' seminaries and schools, as well as institutes. The latter, by the way, were also purely male. Finally, the crown of public education in the Russian Empire was higher educational institutions - universities, of which there were about a dozen throughout the country, and institutes, of which, of course, there were more. Tellingly, the technological institutes belonged to the Ministry of Public Education, and the rest belonged to those departments for which the personnel were trained.

All this, of course, is a rather general picture, and I must have missed something while drawing it. Do not judge strictly. As you may have already understood, the education system in the Russian Empire was complex, confusing and contradictory. Its main shortcomings were, first of all, the depressing estate, which gave rise to an almost complete blockage of social elevators in society and terrible poverty: most of the educational institutions, where three skins were not tore for science, existed on all kinds of donations and charitable contributions.

The draft reform, according to which at least primary education in Russia was to become universal, the State Duma “chewed” for seven years, until 1912. According to him, something similar to the normal system of teaching children should have appeared in the European part of the empire by 1918, and on the outskirts by 1920. However, the State Council successfully buried this draft, submitted after consideration by the Duma. In the same 1912, Nicholas II, who nowadays is called by some people almost "the tsar-enlightener", deigned to "write the highest" that there are "enough" universities in the country from the empire ...

The Russian empire, of course, had far from the worst in the world and not so backward system of public education. However, Russia was able to become a country of universal literacy, the most reading in the world and possessing the most powerful scientific personnel only after the establishment of Soviet power.

Comments

[Ragnar Lodbrok]

There were never any illiterates in our family.

Parish schools (TsPSh) were the path to literacy for the absolute majority of the poor and poor population of the Russian Empire - after all, they were free and generally accessible.

The level of teaching was such that all the relatives who were called to the Russian-Japanese or WWI were either with stripes, or even with asterisks of warrant officers. Peasant children, not bourgeois. But now what? If you are seven inches in your forehead, you will never rise up, it’s all busy with all sorts of chin and millers. Social elevators don’t work for us, don’t even argue with me now.

[Varyag_0711]

Ragnar Lodbrok
The level of teaching was such that all the relatives who were called to the Russian-Japanese or WWI were either with stripes, or even with asterisks of warrant officers.

Is it in the TsPSh or what? What was taught there? Word of God? They taught me to read and write at most, and this is far from education. In the USSR, yes, my grandmother, having FIVE classes of education, worked as an accountant at one of the five largest aluminum plants in the USSR. That was education. They counted without calculators, using abacus and slide rule.

[cost]

What was taught there? Word of God? They taught me to read and write at most, and this is far from education

My great-grandmother, at the age of 12, after the death of her father and the death of her mother, received the status of a military orphan and was sent at the expense of TKV to the Holy Trinity Seraphim women's shelter in the village of Zolskaya. And upon graduation, again at the expense of the troops, she went to the Vladikavkaz Teachers' Seminary, which she graduated from with the specialty of a teacher. The education received at the village shelter did not prevent her from passing exams and being enrolled.
By the way, in 1910, literacy in the Tersk Cossack army was 37%, and in the Kuban, even more -40,5%

[antivirus]

empty disputes - LITERACY AS A TERM MEANS NOT SO MUCH READ AND WRITE A SPECIFIC PERSON, BUT THE GENERAL CULTURAL LEVEL !!!!!!!!! ALL !!!!!!!!!!!!!! CITIZENS (THERE WERE NOT A CITIZEN WITH RIGHTS) - WERE LITERATES like you have in the "elevators"


small specials --- literacy of the whole country is and is born in 1895 and younger ............ and all older than that, even from serfdom (no belmes).


recently the actor Adabashyan celebrated his 75th birthday --- "got to the site in the army, so he received the status (?) of" Solomon "- he knew the circumference = 2pier

what literate people were without geometry in 1910?

[Seal]

Quote: antivirus

what literate people were without geometry in 1910?

Well, for example. Man learned formulas only in his old age.
http://vivovoco.astronet.ru/VV/PAPERS/BIO/KRYLOV/KRYLOV_19.HTM

[Undecim]

The level of teaching was such that all the relatives who were called to the Russian-Japanese or WWI were either with stripes, or even with asterisks of warrant officers.
Parish schools were one-class and two-class. In one-class schools, the course of study lasted 3 years, in two-class schools - 4 and was limited to teaching the following subjects: the Law of God, Church Slavonic literacy, church singing. From general education subjects, the teaching included Russian, calligraphy and arithmetic. The two-year school curriculum expanded through the teaching of geography and Russian history. Craftsmanship for boys and handicrafts for girls could be taught as additional subjects.
The subjects of the religious cycle were allocated 13 (46,43%) weekly hours in each year of study. General education subjects accounted for 15 (53,57%) weekly hours.

[Seal]

Here is a picture of 1895. Verbal counting in the most ordinary village school.

[Foul skeptic]

Oral counting in the most ordinary village school

Do you call the Rachinsky school "an ordinary village"?
Oh, those pictures from social networks.

[Simargl]

I honestly, in my mind, solved this example. Here, however, you don't even need to count too much if you know that the answer is an integer.

[Proxima]

I confirm that my mother, having 7 classes of education, also worked as an accountant and no calculators (truth appeared, but later), but as she thought in her mind (!!!) now go to any eighth-grader, he will hardly remember the multiplication table.

[Edward Vashchenko]

The level of teaching was such that all the relatives who were called to the Russian-Japanese or WWI were either with stripes, or even with asterisks of warrant officers.

Therefore, these wars have lost.

[tihonmarine]

Quote: Ragnar Lothbrok

The level of teaching was such that all the relatives who were called to the Russian-Japanese or WWI were either with stripes, or even with asterisks of warrant officers. Peasant children, not bourgeois.

You were right about the Russian-Japanese and WWI. My great-grandfather on my father's mother graduated from a construction school in Warsaw, at first he guarded the construction site of the Chinese Eastern Railway with stripes, and in the Russian Japanese he was already a deserter in the Nerchinsk regiment. His brothers were all educated, both in WWI and in civilian life were with stripes and kubarov, also on the father's side and grandfather and his brothers, they were all educated, and we also taught us idiots, great-grandchildren and grandchildren. Especially mathematics and history, they taught me that I still remember, but that was not always the case from school.

[Simargl]

Quote: Ragnar Lothbrok

The level of teaching was such that all the relatives who were called to the Russian-Japanese or WWI were either with stripes, or even with asterisks of warrant officers. Peasant children, not bourgeois.

It is clear that someone who can read, write and count, even by syllables, will be just 100500 heads higher than any illiterate person. Something is always more than nothing.
Moreover, junior ranks are needed, but a completely illiterate person cannot be put there.

Quote: Ragnar Lothbrok

And now what? If you are seven spans in your forehead, you will never rise up, everything is busy there with all sorts of crap and millers.

Are you confusing anything? By the line above, you indicate that a graduate of the TsPSh held a position just above the bottom, and now you are complaining about not making it to the very top! Where is the logic?

[16112014nk]

Quote: Ragnar Lothbrok

Social elevators don't work for us, don't even argue with me now.

I will argue. Social elevators for the people of the Russian Federation under the control of two well-known elevators work, but only down.

[Kote Pan Kokhanka]

Sir, where are the puffs? "Puffs", where !!!?
Great theme, good style and minuscule content.
But at least it was possible to expand the topic into five articles! Eh.

[Olgovich]

Quote: Kote pane Kohanka

Sir, where are the puffs? "Puffs", where !!! Great theme, good syllable and minuscule content. ?

Also amazed: HOW can you write a libel (albeit in a clumsy language) about education in Russia and not indicate, practically, ANY number?

And on the basis of this emptiness, give out what this scanty little article was written for:

In the same 1912, Nicholas II, who nowadays is called by some people almost "the tsar-enlightener

An empty propaganda article is a fat minus.

But the truth is different:
1. From the very beginning of the reign of Nicholas II, there was an outstripping growth in budget spending on education, and in 1906-1916. the growth is completely unprecedented. Neither before nor after this period did the Russian state spend so much of its budget on education. And it was so. At the beginning of the reign of Nicholas II, a little more than 40 million rubles were allocated from the funds of the state treasury for education, and zemstvos, cities and institutions spent another 30-40 million rubles, that is, in total - 70 – 80 Feet Million rubles.

And in 1914 the consolidated budget amounted to 660 million rubles. - 20% OF THE STATE BUDGET - FOR EDUCATION !!. ... This has not happened anywhere and never.

So if we take the figure of 1894 million rubles for 70, then the growth will be almost 10 times, by an order of magnitude. But even according to the minimum estimate - more than eight times.

To make it clear what numbers are in question, we note that 660 million gold rubles. - about 200-300 billion current dollars. Boris Galenin.

2. Universal free primary education was introduced in fact since 1908.

From the monograph by Yu Saprykin:

By 1917, "school networks" were built in the country, which still form the basis of the educational system in Russia. and other states that were part of the Russian Empire. It was during this period that the material infrastructure of the national school system was created in our country, including the construction of school buildings, as well as the provision of administrative and organizational infrastructure, which was supposed to grow in the future only in the sense of increasing the number of specialists, covering all children, increasing
duration of training, etc. (by 1916 in the Russian Empire there were about 140 thousand schools of various types, today in Russia there are about 65 thousand educational institutions of all types. In total, there are now 135,5 thousand educational institutions of all types in the Russian Federation
and forms of ownership (that is, not only general education, but also
professional educational institutions, institutions of additional
education, etc.)
... Thus, the Russian Empire already at the beginning of the twentieth century surpassed not only the majority of states of that time in terms of the infrastructure parameters of the school system (for example, the ratio of the number of schools to the population, the uniformity of their distribution, spatial accessibility, controllability, etc.)
modern Russian Federation.

.
And most importantly: if under the Imperator 4-5 schools were put into operation ANNUALLY, then under the "nogodnye power" - NOT ONE - another 10-12 years, in the USSR about until 1927 significantly fewer children studied in schools than in the Russian Empire in 1914-1916 (Saprykin)

Shame ....

Women's education is the best in the world:

On the eve of the 1917 revolution, the system of gymnasium and higher education for women in the Russian Empire was much more developed than in Germany, France and England (Saprykin),

3.

The system of Russian higher education in absolute terms was comparable to the systems of other leading European countries. At the same time, the Russian higher education system developed much faster. Between 1906 and 1914 there was an unprecedented growth in the higher education system. As a result, by the beginning of World War I, the Russian system of higher education has caught up with the leading European and in a relative scale (in relation to population) (Saprykin

And yes: the world's first women's medical institute is also RUSSIA:

[mz]

"And in 1914 the consolidated budget was already 660 million rubles. - 20% of the STATE BUDGET - for EDUCATION !!. This has not happened anywhere and never."
This was not the case in 1914. Cut the sturgeon five times. I did not find the data for 1914, but in 1913 the expenditure on education was 4.3%. And then suddenly they grew up to 20% ??. Sheer nonsense. Monarchism of the Brain?

[Foul skeptic]

You are confusing the consolidated budget and the state budget. The first included the expenses of the zemstvos, and charitable funds, and income from boarding schools, and income from lecturing.
But I also don't believe the figure of 660 million, knowing who Boris Galenin is.

[BAI]

In 1905, it was like this:

More was spent on the Church than on education.

[Foul skeptic]

Andrei, hello!
You never stop delighting with the "sources" you use
Never engaged))
To bring as an argument the book of not someone else, but - the Chief of Staff of the Military Orthodox Thought (This is not a joke, if anything) - this is certainly a strong move.
Brief information about the character:
In 2017, he received from the First Hierarch of the Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia Metropolitan Hilarion and Bishop Belevsky and Aleksinsky the badge "Honorary employee of the Orthodox Mission" with the wording "For many years of missionary and educational work, love for God, loyalty to the Tsar and the Fatherland." Loyalty to the Tsar ... in 2017 ...
This is what the RPO "Orthodox Mission for the Revival of the Spiritual Values ​​of the Russian People" writes about Galenin (and we have this, not a joke if that)

ardent love for the Tsar-Martyr, love for Imperial Russia and the Russian Army and Navy, absorbed from childhood, the firm faith of an Orthodox Christian help the author to work fruitfully for the glory of the Fatherland and the Church of Christ.
Boris Glebovich is ... a real warrior of Christ, a loyal tsarist, a true citizen of the eternal Great Orthodox Russian Empire - the Holy Russian Kingdom.

I will leave this passage without my comments.
And here are the words of Galenin himself from various interviews:

With regret, we have to admit that the hatred of the Orthodox civilization and the Russian Empire as its last incarnation, introduced by the media, the current education and all the reality around us, continues to poison the minds and hearts of many of our fellow citizens.

When considering the foreign policy of the Russian Empire in the era of Nicholas II, as well as the foreign policy of the leading world powers of that time, it should be clearly understood that the basis of the explicit and secret world politics of the last decades of the 1913th century and the first decades of the 1913th century was the preparation of the Monetary Power, (headquarters which until XNUMX was in England and after the creation of the Federal Reserve System in XNUMX moved overseas), a pan-European or World War, in which the last European Christian monarchies, heirs of the Roman Empire, must come together in mortal combat.

already at the end of the XNUMXth century, "the most powerful Anglo-Saxon minds" developed a plan for the conquest of a dominant position by the Anglo-Saxon race throughout the world.

a certain Sir Henry Labouchere, a Freemason, Member of Parliament and publisher of the aforementioned weekly, who belonged to those circles in London and, let us pay attention, in the Vatican, which drew up the program of future wars, revolutions and the destruction of Christian monarchies

I also think I will not comment.

[Fitter65]

Quote: Olgovich

And in 1914 the consolidated budget amounted to 660 million rubles. - 20% OF THE STATE BUDGET - for EDUCATION !!. ... This has not happened anywhere and never.

To read you like this Imperial Russia is a direct engine of world progress and a leader in everything, and no one has surpassed it in the production of bast shoes ...
Well, if you can, then read these two documents.

Draft state list of income and expenses for 1914 pp 1-350
Draft state list of income and expenses for 1914 pp 351-722

footnote http://istmat.info/files/uploads/47191/48_b_proekt_gosudarstvennoy_rospisi_dohodov_i_rashodov_na_1914_str_1-350.pdfRead, and when you reach page number 102, very carefully add the numbers that are written on this page. I hope in elementary school you learned a science called mathematics? This is when children were taught to add and subtract numbers. So let's return to page No. 102 - for 1914 under the Ministry of Public Education in a total amount of 161. 630 tr. or 161 rubles. Hello, garage !!! where did 630 million come from? The fact that you are prone to lying and turning facts around is something that many know, but not to the same extent. Do you need numbers? Good.

By the beginning of 1917, 11 Imperial Universities operated in Russia. The Imperial Nikolaev University in Saratov had only a medical faculty. Perm University, already created by the decree of the Provisional Government of Russia of July 1 (14), 1917 [19] and therefore cannot be considered "Imperial") also did not have a full staff of faculties [1].

let's not dig deep, we stupidly climb into Wikipedia ..

By 1914, there were 1000 students per 59 people of the total population: in Russia 143, in Austria - 152, in Great Britain - 175, in Germany - 213, in the USA - 148, in France - 146, in Japan - XNUMX people

Are we going further? Let's go.

By 1914, there were 123 primary educational institutions in the Russian Empire, of which:
80801 departments of the MNP,
40530 departments of the Orthodox confession
2414 other departments.
The coverage of children aged 8 to 11 by primary school by 1914 was 30,1% in the Russian Empire as a whole (in cities - 46,6%, in rural areas - 28,3%).

What's next? Oh, secondary schools

! Secondary educational institutions of the MNP in 1913 were represented by male and female educational institutions. For men: gymnasiums - 441, gymnasiums - 29, real schools - 284, 32 and 27 technical schools. Women's: gymnasiums 873, gymnasiums 92.

And of course, the top of this powerful pillar of universal education is universities !!!

Higher education in 1913/1914 was represented by 63 state, public, private and departmental educational institutions of higher education. According to A.E. Ivanov, in 1913/1914 123532 students studied at state, public and private higher schools (of which 71379 were at state universities). In 1917, 135065 students studied at the Russian higher school (Ivanov A.E. Higher school of Russia in the late XIX - early XX centuries. M., 1991. Table number 28, p. 254)

In state higher education institutions studied:

Universities - 10 (35 students)
Legal - 4 (1036 students)
Oriental Studies - 3 (270 students)
Medical - 2 (2592 Students)
Pedagogical - 4 (894 Students)
Military and Naval - 8 (1182 Students)
Theological - 6 (1085 students)
Engineering - 15 (23329 students)
Agricultural - 6 (3307 students)
Veterinary - 4 (1729 students)
Artistic - 1 (260 Students)

Well?!!! Are the numbers ok? Or was it different in your parallel reality?

[Foul skeptic]

I hope you learned a science called mathematics in elementary school? This is when children were taught numbers to add and subtract. So let's return to page No. 102 - for 1914 under the authority of the Ministry of Public Education in the total amount of 161. 630 tr. or 161 rubles. Hello, garage !!! where did 630 million come from?

You, in your noble indignation, like the forum member above, did not notice the phrase "consolidated budget" and compare only with the state budget.
But where did Galenin get 660 million. I myself would be interested to find out. Because if I can documentarily confirm that in 1912 the consolidated budget "for education" (without the institutions of the Synod) was 320 million rubles. (of which from the state budget - 165 million). In 1914 from the treasury - 169 million. And here the figure of 660 million becomes very unconvincing - otherwise let them explain to me how the zemstvos and which benefactors have increased spending on education from 151 to 491 million rubles in two years.
By the way, you are also not doing the right thing when you consider the costs of only MNEs - many ministries had their own specialized educational institutions and the expenses fell on them. If you go over the entire list of expenses, then in 1914, under 190 million state spending will be typed.

[Fitter65]

Quote: Nefarious skeptic

You, in your noble indignation, like the forum member above, did not notice the phrase "consolidated budget" and compare only with the state budget.

We carefully look at the document I have indicated, and there is a footnote on the finances of the Synod, as well as on the expenses of the Ministry of War, where money is also pledged for education, etc., etc. Just let's be honest, the indicated amount that the state indicated for education, it is , but the fact that the holy synod allocated there is the money of the synod, and the state in this money is not a hoof, not a snout. No need to justify a liar.

[Foul skeptic]

By 1914, there were 123 primary educational institutions in the Russian Empire, of which:
80801 departments of the MNP,
40530 departments of the Orthodox confession
2414 other departments.
The coverage of children aged 8 to 11 by primary school by 1914 was 30,1% in the Russian Empire as a whole (in cities - 46,6%, in rural areas - 28,3%).

Is this from Wikipedia? Is the source marked?
My data for 1914 differ from yours - students aged 8-11 - 51%. Data source - Department of Public Education, 1916 booklet on primary education

[Fitter65]

Quote: Nefarious skeptic

Is this from Wikipedia? Is the source marked?

And look, there is a source, and when it is taken. Do you have doubts? So go ahead to rusty mines, prove that everything in Vieja is not true, but everything was as you write1 What is the question?

[Foul skeptic]

prove that everything in Viei is not true, but everything was as you write

Alexander, why? I don't need to indulge my ego, I am not an ardent youth, I do not suffer from maximalism.
You somehow react violently to simple normal questions. I had to go to the Wikipedia site myself. The source is indicated. The question has not been removed. Because the source is not the primary source and there are no references in it to the source of the figures. Therefore, it is still not clear to me how the figure of 30,1% came about. Given that I have already mentioned the 1916 data from the MNP:

And even this scanned copy is not an attempt to prove something to someone, but an attempt to understand what base the authors used to display such a figure (30,1), and which got into Wikipedia.

[Olgovich]

Quote: Fitter65

Hello, garage !!! where did 660 million come from?

Ale, an ignoramus !!

Learn what a CONSOLIDATED budget is, ignorant!

Quote: Fitter65

let's not dig deep stupidly we climb into Wikipedia

Right you yourself
But with amateurs it's hard to talk "stupidly". The story "Cut!" Shukshin to help you.

Got it, no?

All the numbers are here (and this is not a sleepy wiki, but a scientific monograph)

the Russian Academy of Sciences
Research Center for Science and Education Policy
Establishment of the Russian Academy of Sciences

EDUCATIONAL POTENTIAL
OF THE RUSSIAN EMPIRE (D.L.Saprykin)

The main thing: the thief dealt a terrible blow to the education of the people, throwing it back for decades: instead of 40-50 thousand schools in 10 years 1917-1927 (as it was built before the thief - 4-5 thousand years of schools / year), NOT ONE was built!

Shame ...

Quote: Fitter65

In 1897, the medical community headed by S.P. Botkin achieved the opening of the Women's Medical Institute in St. Petersburg.

WHAT have you refuted?

Russia is the FIRST country where a women's medical institute was opened.

Got it, no?

[Foul skeptic]

All the numbers are here (and this is not a sleepy wiki, but a scientific monograph)
the Russian Academy of Sciences
Research Center for Science and Education Policy
Establishment of the Russian Academy of Sciences

EDUCATIONAL POTENTIAL
OF THE RUSSIAN EMPIRE (D.L.Saprykin)

Andrey, Saprykin is not far from Galenin. Not everything is so simple with his monograph. First, what is scientific in it? )) He, in fact, acts very ugly, hiding behind the name of the Russian Academy of Sciences in his "monographs". Yes, as a member of the Russian Academy of Sciences, he can use its title in his monographs. But, his "works" by the RAS itself are not recognized, therefore 1) they go without the editorial board of the RAS, about which there is a note on the monographs themselves, 2) they are not published by the RAS printing house, but ordered by Saprykin himself in private printing houses. Secondly, Saprykin does work for the same audience as Galenin. And he organized the site Pravoslavie.ru for the same purpose.
And false information in his "works" is a dime a dozen. No wonder he is so stingy with sources of information. Only by his law of May 3, 1908, he put an end to himself.

[Olgovich]

Quote: Nefarious skeptic

Andrey, Saprykin is not far from Galenin. Not everything is so simple with his monograph. First, what is scientific in it? )

Do you judge?

Quote: Nefarious skeptic

But, his "works" by the RAS itself are not recognized,

Submit the official non-recognition of the RAS

Quote: Nefarious skeptic

And false information in his "works" is a dime a dozen.

Lying.

[Foul skeptic]

Submit the official non-recognition of the RAS

Do you completely ignore the messages of others? What is the name of the scientific editor of the monograph?
Here is the link to the publications of the Institute of History and Technology of the Russian Academy of Sciences
http://ihst.ru/publications/
Find me Saprykin's monograph in them
Or maybe there is an RFBR mark on the monograph? Or is INFOCOR LLC part of ANRI?

Lying.

The General Education Act of May 3, 1908 - right?
Or here he puts a shadow on the fence:

As for the number of students, it should be noted that the USSR
until about 1925 - 1927 significantly fewer children studied in schools than in the Russian Empire in 1914-1916

Moreover, this forgery is easily revealed from his explanation on footnote 48:
1) He simply denies the numbers he doesn't like. I quote - "these data are clearly underestimated." No evidence is provided. Simply - I decided so. This is the most scientific approach, of course.
2) I quote further:
"According to State Committee on Public Education Interim government, seeking to discredit
tsarist government, in 1914 in primary school aged 8 to 11
7,788 million children studied "
He tries to present the "incorrectness" of the inconvenient data, keeping silent about the fact that the Provisional Government simply duplicated these data according to the MNP data published in 1916 (I gave the scan in this thread in another message). That is, all the discrediting was invented by Saprykin himself in order to discard the data refuting his fabrications.
3) Further from the explanation:
"According to an alternative estimate in 1914 only in primary schools studied 8,9 million students (Statistical Yearbook of Russia for 1915 Pg., 916. Section 1. S. 144 "
Fanfare. If you open this source, you will see that instead of the number of students in primary schools (7) Saprykin takes the total number of students (410). That is, for the USSR, he compares primary school students with the total number of students of all forms of education in RI.
You can put an end to the students' question simply by looking at the collection of the Central Statistical Administration of the USSR "1917-1927" page 80.
Examples of such "truths" to continue?

[Olgovich]

Quote: Nefarious skeptic

Do you completely ignore the messages of others?

You have NOT presented the promised non-recognition of the RAS.

Quote: Nefarious skeptic

The General Education Act of May 3, 1908 - right?
Or here he puts a shadow on the fence:

The truth is that there were provisions for universality and gratuity

Quote: Nefarious skeptic

As for the number of students, it should be noted that the USSR
until about 1925 - 1927 significantly fewer children studied in schools than in the Russian Empire in 1914-1916

Moreover, this forgery

This is not a forgery, but the truth, about the same mentioned not only to him: the number of schools before 1927 did not grow

Quote: Nefarious skeptic

Fanfare. If you open this source, you will see that instead of the number of students in primary schools (7) Saprykin takes the total number of students (410). That is, for the USSR, he compares primary school students with the total number of students of all forms of education in RI.
You can put an end to the question of students simply by looking at the collection of the Central Statistical Administration of the USSR "1917-1927" page 8

This is a trifle, and the main thing is that TENS OF THOUSAND schools that Russia would have built, from 1917 to 1927, the Bolsheviks did NOT build and, accordingly, millions of children did NOT receive education on time

[Foul skeptic]

You have NOT provided promised Non-recognition of RAS.

Did I promise you it? By the phrase "the works are not recognized" you were told that the Russian Academy of Sciences does not confirm the scientific nature of Saprykin's monograph (and I will remind you that the conversation between you and me came to just about how frightened you attributed this monograph to scientific works, only from -for the title?), and not that the academy should make a public statement of disagreement with the written. It's not her job, actually, to control the publishing houses of the country. In life, intentions are almost always confirmed, and not the absence of such - you are the director, do you have the acts of completed work signed and sealed when you accept the work? If you do not accept the work, then you simply do not sign.
The work confirmed by RAS looks like this:

or like this
[/ Center]
What do not you see the differences from this one ?:

There are rules of the Association of Science Editors and Publishers. They decide whether the publishing house or publication can be called scientific or whether it will be retracted.

The truth is that there were provisions for universality and gratuity

Do not. Conversation that in the "monograph" that you consider scientific Saprykin gives incorrect information. Here are his words:

Most of the provisions on general education did not receive the force of law until May 3, 1908.

He writes about the law of May 3, 1908, which approved most of the provisions for universal education. So show me this "May third" law with such content. Well, the information he has is true.

This is not a forgery, but the truth, about the same mentioned not only to him: the number of schools before 1927 did not grow

No no no. And what about schools? Here's what it said:

As for the number of students, it should be noted that the USSR until about 1925 - 1927. significantly fewer children studied in schools than in the Russian Empire in 1914-1916

I showed you in the previous message that this is not true information and indicated where his distortion occurs. Therefore, there is no need to move to something else - we are considering specific places of distortion.

It's nothing,

A trifle ?! One and a half million people - a trifle ?! 20% discrepancy is a trifle ?! And nothing that such "little things" and he forms the desired picture? Scientists do just that, of course.
If he were a scientist, he would not forget to say that students aged 21-24 years of admission are children born in WWI. When there was a drop in the birth rate from 50 ppm to 35, and then generally to 25. That, according to Troitsky's overestimated estimates, was 8,3 million for the entire war. It is impossible to calculate exactly and he himself considered the figure overestimated. But even if the shortfall is accepted in 6 million - then it would be expected to drop in the years 21-24 in 1,5 million students every year. And now do you know why this level of decline did not occur in the years 21-24? And because the coverage of the population has been increased over the years. This is how a historian would analyze.

And let me give you some more "little things" from the "scientific" work?

With regard to the consolidated budget, in 1914, according to Pitirim Sorokin [Sorokin 2008, 285-287, 400], the total expenditures of all government departments on education amounted to almost 300 million gold rubles (including 161 million under the Ministry of Public Education). expenditures of zemstvos and cities on "educational" items in the same year amounted to about 360 million rubles. That is, the "consolidated budget" of the treasury, zemstvos and cities amounted to 660 million gold rubles.

The usual technique for such "scientific" articles is to disclaim responsibility for untrue, but convenient information with the help of references to other similar authors.
The information provided here is not confirmed by Sorokin, moreover, its erroneousness is easily revealed. Take the 1914 budget and sum up everything that mentions educational goals in some way, without even separating articles like (educational and artistic needs "or" training boats for the navy. "Even with this inflated approach, the amount will be 230 million, not 300 million. 70 million (30%) - not a bad next little thing. Where does the figure of 360 million from the zemstvos come from, he certainly does not give. Because the figure is fabulous. I have already cited data for 1912 above (the original source, which is available, not "calculations") there is a figure of 151 million. Explain to me this miracle - the search for additional funds for the year in the amount of 209 million (130% !!!). Pitirim does not explain why. A total of 660 will take the form of 400 million at best. But this By the way, Sorokin, while checking the data, came across not only these "errors".

Shares of 8-9% of the imperial budget and in 15-17% of the consolidated budget, which took place on the eve of the First World War never reached neither in the USSR nor in the Russian Federation

Another lie. An elementary check will show that the figures "for RI" are overestimated, despite the fact that "not for RI" they were at a maximum of 17,2% (and in periods of 12-14%, the last five-year plan is 10%, but in absolute terms these 10% were 2 times higher than 17,2% of the relative maximum).
These seeming little things show the level of work. With numbers, he is really bad. But in the "lyrics", he does not lag behind.

At the same time, “popular” meant primarily “Russian” in the sense of reliance on the Russian national tradition, the emphasis on which, especially in the last reign, was combined with a careful attitude towards other (non-Russian) national and religious traditions. In educational policy, this was expressed in the fact that in the schools of the Empire on the national outskirts, teaching was conducted in Russian, but the national language, local literature, culture and history were included in the main circle of teaching.

The fact that there were periods of weakening of persecution when the danger to the very existence of the autocracy increased (such as the cancellation in 1906 under the influence of the revolution of the decree "On the Provisional Rules on penalties for secret education in the north and southwestern provinces" in 1892). So that after the threat has been eliminated, tighten the nuts again. Here is the verdict of the First All-Russian Congress on Public Education in 1913: “The foreign school in Russia is a painful bleeding wound in the mighty organism of the Russian state. This wound undermines his strength, disrupts the normal course of his life. This school has long been crying out against the conditions in which it has been placed by some long-term misunderstanding; she has long attracted the attention of all those who care
correct development of the cultural forces of all members of Russia. For many years, the foreign school has experienced the most diverse, but always fundamentally negative, attitude from the Russian administration, both local and central: the foreign school was either not recognized at all, denied any right to exist for it, or, forgetting about its legal needs, turned it into a tool for
this or that Russification policy ”. Can you tell me about teaching history and culture, for example, the peoples of the Caucasus in the schools of the Caucasus? Which was banned by a Special Meeting back in 1884

[Olgovich]

Quote: A vile skeptic

You have NOT provided promised Non-recognition of RAS.

Did I promise you it? By the phrase "the works are not recognized" you were told that the Russian Academy of Sciences does not confirm the scientific nature of Saprykin's monograph (and I will remind you that the conversation between you and me came to just about how frightened you attributed this monograph to scientific works, only from -for the title?), and not that the academy should make a public statement of disagreement with the written. It's not her job, actually, to control the publishing houses of the country. In life, intentions are almost always confirmed, and not the absence of such - you are the director, do you have the acts of completed work signed and sealed when you accept the work? If you do not accept the work, then you simply do not sign.
The work confirmed by RAS looks like this:

or like this
[/ Center]
What do not you see the differences from this one ?:

There are rules of the Association of Science Editors and Publishers. They decide whether the publishing house or publication can be called scientific or whether it will be retracted.

The truth is that there were provisions for universality and gratuity

Do not. Conversation that in the "monograph" that you consider scientific Saprykin gives incorrect information. Here are his words:

Most of the provisions on general education did not receive the force of law until May 3, 1908.

He writes about the law of May 3, 1908, which approved most of the provisions for universal education. So show me this "May third" law with such content. Well, the information he has is true.

This is not a forgery, but the truth, about the same mentioned not only to him: the number of schools before 1927 did not grow

No no no. And what about schools? Here's what it said:

As for the number of students, it should be noted that the USSR until about 1925 - 1927. significantly fewer children studied in schools than in the Russian Empire in 1914-1916

I showed you in the previous message that this is not true information and indicated where his distortion occurs. Therefore, there is no need to move to something else - we are considering specific places of distortion.

It's nothing,

A trifle ?! One and a half million people - a trifle ?! 20% discrepancy is a trifle ?! And nothing that such "little things" and he forms the desired picture? Scientists do just that, of course.
If he were a scientist, he would not forget to say that students aged 21-24 years of admission are children born in WWI. When there was a drop in the birth rate from 50 ppm to 35, and then generally to 25. That, according to Troitsky's overestimated estimates, was 8,3 million for the entire war. It is impossible to calculate exactly and he himself considered the figure overestimated. But even if the shortfall is accepted in 6 million - then it would be expected to drop in the years 21-24 in 1,5 million students every year. And now do you know why this level of decline did not occur in the years 21-24? And because the coverage of the population has been increased over the years. This is how a historian would analyze.

And let me give you some more "little things" from the "scientific" work?

With regard to the consolidated budget, in 1914, according to Pitirim Sorokin [Sorokin 2008, 285-287, 400], the total expenditures of all government departments on education amounted to almost 300 million gold rubles (including 161 million under the Ministry of Public Education). expenditures of zemstvos and cities on "educational" items in the same year amounted to about 360 million rubles. That is, the "consolidated budget" of the treasury, zemstvos and cities amounted to 660 million gold rubles.

The usual technique for such "scientific" articles is to disclaim responsibility for untrue, but convenient information with the help of references to other similar authors.
The information provided here is not confirmed by Sorokin, moreover, its erroneousness is easily revealed. Take the 1914 budget and sum up everything that mentions educational goals in some way, without even separating articles like (educational and artistic needs "or" training boats for the navy. "Even with this inflated approach, the amount will be 230 million, not 300 million. 70 million (30%) - not a bad next little thing. Where does the figure of 360 million from the zemstvos come from, he certainly does not give. Because the figure is fabulous. I have already cited data for 1912 above (the original source, which is available, not "calculations") there is a figure of 151 million. Explain to me this miracle - the search for additional funds for the year in the amount of 209 million (130% !!!). Pitirim does not explain why. A total of 660 will take the form of 400 million at best. But this By the way, Sorokin, while checking the data, came across not only these "errors".

Shares of 8-9% of the imperial budget and in 15-17% of the consolidated budget, which took place on the eve of the First World War never reached neither in the USSR nor in the Russian Federation

Another lie. An elementary check will show that the figures "for RI" are overestimated, despite the fact that "not for RI" they were at a maximum of 17,2% (and in periods of 12-14%, the last five-year plan is 10%, but in absolute terms these 10% were 2 times higher than 17,2% of the relative maximum).
These seeming little things show the level of work. With numbers, he is really bad. But in the "lyrics", he does not lag behind.

At the same time, “popular” meant primarily “Russian” in the sense of reliance on the Russian national tradition, the emphasis on which, especially in the last reign, was combined with a careful attitude towards other (non-Russian) national and religious traditions. In educational policy, this was expressed in the fact that in the schools of the Empire on the national outskirts, teaching was conducted in Russian, but the national language, local literature, culture and history were included in the main circle of teaching.

The fact that there were periods of weakening of persecution when the danger to the very existence of the autocracy increased (such as the cancellation in 1906 under the influence of the revolution of the decree "On the Provisional Rules on penalties for secret education in the north and southwestern provinces" in 1892). So that after the threat has been eliminated, tighten the nuts again. Here is the verdict of the First All-Russian Congress on Public Education in 1913: “The foreign school in Russia is a painful bleeding wound in the mighty organism of the Russian state. This wound undermines his strength, disrupts the normal course of his life. This school has long been crying out against the conditions in which it has been placed by some long-term misunderstanding; she has long attracted the attention of all those who care
correct development of the cultural forces of all members of Russia. For many years, the foreign school has experienced the most diverse, but always fundamentally negative, attitude from the Russian administration, both local and central: the foreign school was either not recognized at all, denied any right to exist for it, or, forgetting about its legal needs, turned it into a tool for
this or that Russification policy ”. Can you tell me about teaching history and culture, for example, the peoples of the Caucasus in the schools of the Caucasus? Which was banned by a Special Meeting back in 1884

Thanks for the detailed analysis.

But you-unconvincing and biased.

[Foul skeptic]

Please, Andrey. It is, of course, not detailed, it would take a very long time to write.
Of course, it would be interesting to find out what the inconclusiveness or bias is, but this again will start the conversation on a new level and waste time.

[Fitter65]

Quote: Olgovich

Russia is the FIRST country where a women's medical institute was opened.

With the money of private investors, that is, the state, represented by the Empire, in no way forbade this event, and thanks for that.

Quote: Olgovich

Learn what a CONSOLIDATED budget is, ignorant!

Dumb, learn for yourself what a consolidated budget is in order to calculate it as a percentage of the state budget. Yes, even the consolidated budget of 1914 for the amount you specified does not pull out with all your desire.

Quote: Olgovich

The main thing: the thief dealt a terrible blow to the education of the people

Nu-nu. All the same, before the greatness of the Great October Socialist Revolution, you feel your insignificance, albeit in abbreviated form, but still, write with a breath and with a capital letter !!! And it is right. Well, at the expense of a blow to education ... From 1917 to 1927, the country was raised from its knees after the war into which the worthless ruler who abandoned it plunged it, it is thanks to him that former friends and associates began to tear the country apart, it is thanks to this worthless autocrat the country mired in civil strife ... You can prove that as much as you want with foaming at the mouth how good life was under the autocracy, the main thing is not to forget the Great October Socialist Revolution, although you can write with a capital letter in abbreviated form - feel your worthlessness

[Simargl]

Quote: Olgovich

The main thing: the thief dealt a terrible blow to the education of the people, throwing it back for decades

Well, tell us: how many schools were built in 1917?
And what does the thief have to do with it if she was the consequence the collapse of the country and anarchy after the FBI (February bourgeois revolution, not what one might think)?
You probably don't know that the country was destroyed bourgeois with the incapacity of the government (monarchy)?

[ah]

The thief was the result of the collapse of the country and the army by the forces of the Bolsheviks and other revolutionary companies. Petrosovet is the author of order number 1, which started the collapse of the army. And between the FBI and the thief, the revolutionary Petrograd Soviet had no less real power than the interim government. So both the FBI and the thief can be safely attributed to the achievements of the Bolsheviks.

[Simargl]

Quote: ayh

So both the FBI and the thief can be safely attributed to the achievements of the Bolsheviks.

Oh how! How so? There were no Bolsheviks before the thief, and here they are to blame for the FBI! Can you tell me who the Bolsheviks are?

[Foul skeptic]

Petrosovet is the author of order number 1, which started the collapse of the army.

1) On March 1 (14), could the Bolsheviks decide something in the Petrosoviet? All 4, or how many of them were there out of 3 dozen? And not a single one on the presidium, as far as I remember.
2) Until March 1 (14), the country and the army were an integral monolith?

[Fitter65]

Quote: Olgovich

And yes: the world's first women's medical institute is also RUSSIA:

I don’t know why everyone says - is he breaking like a gray gelding? I must say - he is lying like an olgovich!

In 1872, in the form of an experiment, courses of "Scientist midwives" were opened with a four-year training period at the Medical-Surgical Academy, the classes were transferred to the Nikolaev district hospital. From 1877 they became known as Women's Medical Courses. Lectures were given by chemist A.P. Borodin, venereologist V.M. Tarnovsky, pediatrician K.A.Rauchfus and a number of professors of the Medical-Surgical Academy.

Higher medical courses were administered by the Ministry of War. In 1892, Minister of War Vannovsky considered the existence of women's medical education in the system of the military department "inappropriate", and they were closed.

In 1897, the medical community headed by S.P. Botkin achieved the opening of the Women's Medical Institute in St. Petersburg. The institution was denied financial support, it existed on private donations, Botkin himself contributed a large amount.

The Institute is located on Bishop Street. (now Lev Tolstoy St.), at the clinical base of the Peter and Paul Hospital. VK Anrep became the first rector of the institute. Biochemist S. S. Salazkin, histologist A. S. Dogel, pathologist G. V. Shor, psychoneurologist V. M. Bekhterev worked at the institute.

The students who graduated from the institute were graduated as general practitioners, received the title of "woman doctor" and had the right to work only in women's medical institutions.

In 1899, at the request of the director of the ZhMI D.O. Ott, the ZhMI received 130 beds in clinical departments in the Petropavlovsk hospital.

Before the revolution, the director of the institute was Professor B.V. Verkhovsky. From the time of its foundation until 1917, the institute graduated 13 thousand women doctors. O. N. Podvysotskaya, the first female academician of the USSR Academy of Medical Sciences, was a graduate of the JMI.

The first public health museum in Russia was created at the Women's Medical Institute (now the House of Health Education on Italyanskaya Street).

In 1918 the Women's Institute was transformed into the 1936st Petrograd Medical Institute. In XNUMX he was named after I.P. Pavlov.

In 1994, the institute was transformed into the St. Petersburg State Medical University named after academician I.P. Pavlov.

Well, where is there about financing from the state treasury? And again, about gender equality in the Russian Empire !!!

Students who graduated from the institute were graduated as general practitioners, received the title of "woman doctor" and had the right to work only in women's medical institutions.

Only in WOMEN'S HEALING INSTITUTIONS!

[Kwas]

Here you, sir, are very fond of the Great Russian Empire to oppose the vile scoop. So let's honestly compare the level of culture and education. God be with her, with statistics, but you must agree that the release of books is a VERY important indicator of culture, isn't it? So look at your bookshelves, and tell yourself, what percentage are books of the pre-revolutionary edition on them? Honestly!

[Olgovich]

Quote: Kwas

God be with her, with statistics, but you must agree that the release of books is a VERY important indicator of culture, isn't it? So look at your bookshelves, and tell yourself, what percentage are books of the pre-revolutionary edition on them? Honestly!

You can find at least ONE book in your library ...1930-x, 1940-x .

And finally think about why they are NOT there,

Quote: Kwas

t! And if so, then he was very ... not smart.

He was smart, because he understood that education is everything for the country.

And the children of the USSR studied for many, many years ONLY in the Tsar's schools and Tsar's hundreds of thousands of teachers.

The destroyers of the country did NOT bring any of this from the Swiss, it was all created BEFORE THEM,

[Fitter65]

Quote: Olgovich

The destroyers of the country did NOT bring any of this from the Swiss, it was all created BEFORE THEM,

Insanity grew stronger.

[Olgovich]

Quote: Fitter65

Quote: Olgovich

The destroyers of the country did NOT bring any of this from the Swiss, it was all created BEFORE THEM,

Insanity grew stronger.

And who is interested in your diagnosis?

[Kwas]

Quote: Olgovich

Find at least ONE book in your library ... 1930s, 1940s lol.

And finally think about why they are NOT there,

So NO? Alas, the divine vision has failed you again. There they are not only there, but there are also a LOT of them! And for children, and scientific, and translations, and all sorts. Part, yes, on unimportant paper. But what is one wonderful "Atlas of the commander of the Red Army" (1939, about 2 kg), or "Foreign military fleets" (1947, more than 1 kg), not to mention the Stalinist TSB! So you again ...

[Han Tengri]

Quote: Kwas

There they are not only there, but there are also a LOT of them! And for children, and scientific, and translations, and all sorts.

I also have a certain number, in particular, Nekrasov 1924 (EMNIP) of the year of publication, Mayakovsky, children's "What is good and what is bad", about the same years. Maybe it's just that Olgovich's ancestors were illiterate and didn't buy their books for themselves or their children? So he doesn't know.

[Olgovich]

Quote: Kwas

There they are not just IS, but there they are also LOT! Both for children, and scientific, and translation

1) I think you're just lying.

In any case, 90% of the population does not have such a thing, because there was a war, mass relocations to other housing and to cities and regions.

2. TEN-TIMES this applies to pre-revolutionary literature, which at the state level was massively DESTROYED by the Bolshevik regime and went through more than one war, revolution and repression.

3. And I, by the way, have it: dictionaries of the century before last, magazines, articles.

And yes, hack it on your forehead: in Russia it was published a year (120) 000 000 books in dozens of languages ​​of Russia and the world.

[Kwas]

Quote: Olgovich

1) I think you're just lying.

To make you less doubtful, I take some of the following photos against the background of my keyboard (old IBM - I retrograde). How to prove it more convincingly - I really don't know!
And the following pictures may be a revelation for you, but books were published in the USSR in the 1920s, after two difficult wars and revolutions.

Quote: Olgovich

In any case, 90% of the population has no such thing,

Here I agree with you, but it's about something else. There are about the same number of books from the interwar period as from the pre-revolutionary period, despite all the difficulties, in comparison with the prosperous period before 1914. Although I agree, there are much fewer books than after 1950.
Now it’s your turn to demonstrate something of your pre-revolutionary nature, otherwise I’ll be offended!

[Olgovich]

Quote: Kwas

Here I agree with you, but it's about something else. There are about the same number of books from the interwar period as from the pre-revolutionary period, despite all the difficulties, in comparison with the prosperous period before 1914.

Nonsense: find out, finally, that the pre-revolutionary book was officially massively DESTROYED by the anti-popular regime since 1917, burned and sent to waste paper.

I repeat once again: 90% or even 99% of the population do not have books in 1930,40,50, 60, XNUMX and XNUMX because there were WARS, mass resettlements, etc.

Quote: Kwas

What a lie! Can you cite at least one FACT of the destruction of books by the Bolsheviks?

“Already in 1920, the Glavpolitprosvet of the People's Commissariat for Education, at the initiative of Krupskaya, sent out instructions to the localities to revise the catalogs and withdraw from public libraries“ ideologically harmful and outdated ”literature. TO.
Krupskaya compiled the first "blacklists" of books to be banned and withdrawn from libraries in Soviet Russia. In 1924, she included Plato, Kant, Schopenhauer, Leskov, and other major authors in these lists, which shocked even the "petrel of revolution" Gorky. Children's libraries were particularly hard hit. By order of Krupskaya, even folk tales and Aksakov's Scarlet Flower were removed from them. In total, her instructions contained 97 names of children's writers, including Chukovsky, whose poems she called "bourgeois dregs"

and yes:

and more

[Kwas]

Thank you for the pictures, you can see a respected person.
But I am surprised by your opinion that:

Quote: Olgovich

90% or even 99% of the population today DOES NOT have books 1930,40,50 and 60s because there were WARS, mass resettlements, etc.

Surprise and a natural question: "In what circles do you move?" Well, about 30-40 books, you can even more or less agree, they really were released relatively few, and then there was a war, but in the late Soviet era, cultured people used to have home libraries of 1000-10000 volumes, which (again, cultured people ) tried to preserve mostly even when moving to another country.
To destroy the same books, just because they are out of fashion, in my opinion, can only those people whose epithets will inevitably be cut out by the moderators of our respected site. But apparently these are the people who make up your environment.

Quote: Olgovich

“Already in 1920, the Glavpolitprosvet of the People's Commissariat for Education, at the initiative of Krupskaya, sent out instructions to the localities to revise the catalogs and withdraw from public libraries“ ideologically harmful and outdated ”literature.

Check it out!

[Olgovich]

Quote: Kwas

Well, about 30-40 books, you can even more or less agree, they really were released relatively few, and then there was a war, but in the late Soviet era, cultured people used to have home libraries of 1000-10000 volumes, which (again, cultured people ) tried to preserve mostly even when moving to another country.

Think about what kind of house. "libraries in ... barracks, basements and communal apartments ?!

And they left en masse only in the 1960s
When moving to other countries, books were left: much more than half of the class left, I know what I'm talking about.

Quote: Kwas

Destroy the same books, just because they have gone out of fashion, in my opinion, only such people can, whose epithets will inevitably be cut out by the moderators of our respected site.

Which is what your power did

Quote: Kwas

But apparently these are the people who make up your environment.

Funny you ...

[Kwas]

Quote: Olgovich

Think about what kind of house. "libraries in ... barracks, basements and communal apartments ?!
And they left en masse only in the 1960s

Well, your social environment is starting to clear up. Citizens of the first generation who came to the city after the war. Many of them actually got their apartments in the 1960s. However, the amendment is those of them that were at the same time devoid of thirst for knowledge and curiosity, since books were more than available. However, through what kind of distorting mirror one must look in order to assert that there were 90-95% of the population! So you consider this the norm. Sadly, this corresponds to the fact that you are not interested in the train of thought of your opponents.

[Olgovich]

Quote: Kwas

Well, your social environment is starting to clear up. Townspeople first generations who came to the city after the war.

From the big Dvoryanskaya street of St. Petersburg (near the Peter and Paul Fortress), from RUSSIAN Odessa (until your disfigured it into uraine) and from the peasants, yes ...

Quote: Kwas

However, the amendment is those of them that were at the same time devoid of thirst for knowledge and curiosity, since books were more than available.

The LIBRARY in the barracks was NOT created, for there was nowhere to SLEEP, not that books to collect, when will you understand this?

[Foul skeptic]

Konstantin, hello.
Most likely, your check will end on articles in LJ of a certain orientation, citing the book "The Black Book of Names That Have No Place on the Map of Russia" (also of a certain orientation) Here is from the annotation:

The "Black Book" is dedicated to those geographical names that preserve the legacy of communist ideology and propaganda ...

In short, "brothers in mind" of our brothers Ukrainians (part of the course).
Most of all, I liked that the book does not indicate the sources of information from the word at all, but by searching on the Internet for fragments of text in an attempt to find the source, you find yourself again on LJ and sites of a certain orientation))
Andrey likes to tell everyone - show the document. Just the case when you want to say the same thing - Andrey, show the instructions. Because the fact that it instructed to remove old calendars or religious literature from libraries, I can easily believe. But for the rest I would like to check.
PS By the way, since we are talking about public libraries, then your interlocutor may be interested in learning that in the 21st century in the United States, as well as in the 20th there are so-called "mothers committees" (forgot the English name) that make up lists of literature that should be removed from public libraries.

[Olgovich]

Quote: Nefarious skeptic

Andrey likes to tell everyone - show the document. Just the case when you want to say the same thing - Andrey, show the instructions. Because the fact that it was an instruction to remove old calendars or religious literature from libraries,

Aren't you ashamed to justify the crimes of stupid animals to destroy the cultural wealth of Russia?

After October 1917, a purge of library funds was carried out. Religious, monarchist and anti-revolutionary literature, works of art praising bourgeois and bourgeois morality, "everyday life, customs and ideology of the old world ..." Practically all literature published before the revolution and, therefore, contained in the requisitioned libraries, was suitable for these articles on the purge. It turned out that the books confiscated from their legal owners under the pretext of “public use” were not provided to the people, but were subject to destruction as “harmful”.
N.K.Krupskaya in the article "Distribution of book wealth" writes that almost all that existed before October 1917. libraries “… I had to revise and cleanse them of the mass of harmful books... “This points to the process of cleansing libraries of junk and then replenishing them with purchased books,” she added. The purchases were mainly propaganda and popular science literature, books and brochures about the October Revolution, the history of the revolutionary movement, about socialism and communism.

The massive stage of purges of library funds fell on the n. 20s. Glavpolitprosvet sent out to the territories the Instruction on the revision of library catalogs to remove obsolete and counter-revolutionary literature.
In the department of philosophy, psychology and ethics, “books in the spirit of mentalism, occultism, spiritualism, books on palmistry, magic, dream books” were to be deleted. The circular was accompanied by a list of “harmful” authors and works: Descartes, Kant, etc. In the department of religion, the Gospel and the Koran were withdrawn from circulation. Among many others, “literature of undermining and depressive mood”, excessively syntemal, was subject to removal. In the lists, the names of the authors were preceded by figures characterizing for what “article” he was seized. For example, A. Averchenko was removed under Article 8 - "vulgar humor", A. Bely - under Article 7 - "literature of a decadent mood", Boccacho - under Article 6 - "pornography". Books Dostoevsky were withdrawn under Article 1 as "Black Hundreds, hostile to progressive ideas."
http://www.univer.omsk.su/pages/hbwork/4.htm

Shame ....

[Foul skeptic]

Shame ....

Is this addressed to me?

Aren't you ashamed to justify the crimes of stupid animals to destroy the cultural wealth of Russia?

It seems you only recently wrote to me - do you judge (who are the animals, who are stupid and so on)?
Yes, I was just teasing you, but you don’t understand humor - you always apply a trick to your opponents in the form of a “last resort” - but give me a document or everything is not true (in your presentation it usually sounds like this - DOCUMENT ON THE TABLE, LIAR! ). You only in this topic and only to me used it again when you demanded a document from the academy on non-recognition. Is not it so? And when it turns against you, you react so violently.
Of course, you'd better read the article by Krupskaya in full (Pedagogical works. Vol.8. P.19) - no sedition. As usual, everyone settled on a couple of suggestions. Although I would argue with her about many things.
What cultural wealth of Russia was destroyed in public libraries - expired calendars, old magazine files, tons of instructions from saints?
You can imagine the main contents of small Zemstvo libraries - not good for you, not good for you - that is, what a Zemstvo could get for a song. And this is church literature and filings of old magazines. The question of what people have lost from the fact that instead of one campaign they began to read another is debatable.
In your opinion, when every year in the 21st century in Russia, libraries write off old books for which there is no demand for waste paper - are they also stupid animals?
Regarding the seizure of some literature in general, as a process, it is not necessary to exaggerate until you provide all instructions and orders indicating the works to be seized, and not some torn phrases on sites without specifying the sources of information. Only then can one understand in detail, and not throw it at the fan. It's about public libraries. Until 1917, libraries could not have some literature either (and quite some even at home, as well as after 1917, however). Moreover, I wrote to you above about the "committees of mothers" in the 21st century.

[Olgovich]

Quote: Nefarious skeptic

It seems you only recently wrote to me - do you judge (who are the animals, who are stupid and so on)?

Here it is for me, as a citizen: for books, icons, tens of thousands of monuments of architecture, history of my country, destroyed by stupid beasts by MILLIONS, which I was deprived of, give me the right to do so.

Quote: Nefarious skeptic

DOCUMENT ON THE TABLE, LIAR!

find "Dissertation Mass Libraries of Russia in the Context of Party-State Library Policy: Mid-1920s - May 1941.
the topic of the dissertation and the author's abstract on the Higher Attestation Commission of the Russian Federation 05.25.03, Doctor of Pedagogical Sciences Glazkov, Mikhail Nikolaevich and Glazkov M.N. Purge of stocks of public libraries during the years of Soviet power - there she is given

: Instruction on the revision of library catalogs to remove obsolete and counter-revolutionary literature.
In the department of philosophy, psychology and ethics, “books in the spirit of mentalism, occultism, spiritualism, books on palmistry, magic, dream books” were to be deleted. A list of “harmful” authors and works was attached to the circular: Descartes, Kant, etc.

.

Quote: Nefarious skeptic

And when it turns against you, you react so violently.

You KNOW perfectly well that there are Instructions on the destruction of MILLIONS of books, just get stuck

Quote: Nefarious skeptic

Krupskaya was read in full (Pedagogical works. Vol.8. P.19) - no sedition. As usual, everyone settled on a couple of suggestions. Although I would argue with her about many things.

This cnidah spoke and worked not only here: the ban on Chukovsky and the Scarlet Flower - whose?

Quote: Nefarious skeptic

What cultural wealth of Russia has been destroyed in public libraries - expired calendars, old magazine files, tons of instructions from saints?

ONCE AGAIN: The Department of Philosophy, Psychology and Ethics should have retire "Books in the spirit of mentalism, occultism, spiritualism, books on palmistry, magic, dream books." A list of "harmful" authors and works was attached to the circular: Descartes, Kant etc. In the department of religion were withdrawn from circulation Gospel, Quran... Among many others, “literature of undermining and depressive mood”, excessively syntemal, was subject to removal. In the lists, the names of the authors were preceded by figures characterizing for what “article” he was seized. For example, A.Averchenko withdrawn under Article 8 - "vulgar humor", A. Bely on the 7th - "literature of the depressive mood", Boccacho-p6th - "pornography". Dostoevsky's books were confiscated under Article 1 as "Black Hundreds, hostile to progressive ideas."

Quote: Nefarious skeptic

By-your, when every year in the 21st century in Russia, libraries write off old books for which there is no demand - do stupid animals do that too?

Nope.
These are DIFFERENT things, don't pretend

Quote: Nefarious skeptic

Until 1917, libraries could not have some literature either (and quite some even at home, as well as after 1917, however). Moreover, I wrote to you above about the "committees of mothers" in the 21st century.

Indicate the countries of Europe, America, with a large number of author and book bans

[Foul skeptic]

find "Dissertation ... - there it is given

Andrey, and if I find it, but there this instruction is not given ..? The presence of a copy of the text of the document in the dissertation is so unlikely that it cannot but raise doubts.
Okay, let's do it - I found it - and of course she's not there

Interestingly enough, I must say, the compilation is certainly good.
If you don’t regret 500 rubles for a copy (or if you ask me and send your mail), then find out after an appropriate analysis that the horrors of the instructions were inflated by the émigré Berlin "Socialist Bulletin". And that most often on the modern Internet, information is provided on the basis of this article. You learn that the "Bulletin" used an unapproved list. That even when it was approved, it was revised in 1925, and in 1926, Descartes, Kant, and almost all others, who had fallen earlier, returned to the libraries again. Reviewers need time to evaluate the content, appreciated, saw that it was okay and returned to the libraries. And even the Gospel, Koran and other religious books.

YOU KNOW perfectly well that the Instructions on the destruction of MILLIONS of books are

Of course I know that there is. You will not understand the other. I know what is, but I do not know the content. Therefore, it is impossible to draw a conclusion about the appropriateness or inappropriateness of removing this or that literature from the library, since I do not know the list of this literature. Note, not just the names of the authors, but the specific titles of the works. In the Russian Empire, Tolstoy was also on the “lists” - but not for War and Peace, but for anti-church literature. Therefore, without a list, it is not necessary to exaggerate prematurely. I'll think about it, of course, but while the toad crushes me for the number of "The Red Librarian" to give 3000 rubles plus postage to see this list with my own eyes (it was published there).

AGAIN: In the department of philosophy, psychology and ethics, “books in the spirit of mentalism, occultism, spiritualism, books on palmistry, magic, dream books” were to be deleted. The circular was accompanied by a list of “harmful” authors and works: Descartes, Kant, etc. In the department of religion, the Gospel and the Koran were withdrawn from circulation. Among many others, “literature of undermining and decaying mood”, excessively syntemal, was subject to removal. In the lists, the names of the authors were preceded by figures characterizing for what “article” he was seized. For example, A. Averchenko was removed under Article 8 - "vulgar humor", A. Bely - under Article 7 - "literature of a decadent mood", Boccacho - under Article 6 - "pornography". Dostoevsky's books were confiscated according to the 1st article as "Black Hundreds, hostile to progressive ideas"

Books on magic, palmistry, dream books - do you really regret that this disappeared from public libraries? It's really rubbish, like popular literature and a bunch of other things. I am not a drop. I don't think they belong in the library. My opinion. I have the right.
Descartes, Kant and others - returned after review
Gospel, Koran - similar
Dostoevsky - similar
Averchenko - of course they removed it, it would be strange if they left the works of the author who was with the "whites" during the Great Patriotic War and who wrote works against the Soviet government at that time. And who continued to write them in exile. And which were illegally imported into the country by very interesting organizations.
White - is there a mistake? Where did the text come from. Bely was published in Russia during the 20s and until his death.
Boccacho - imagine, I even went crazy when I read in my dissertation that in 1926 this work was returned to the libraries. There was a specific attitude towards the Decameron throughout the world. In Australia, it was banned altogether until 1973.

These are DIFFERENT things, don't pretend

If these are different things, then why don't I see that you separate them - for some reason all the seized literature from you is considered "not old, in demand, etc." If you read your proposed dissertation, you will see that Soviet literature was also constantly withdrawn, simply because it ceased to be relevant. And was replaced by a new one.

Indicate the countries of Europe, America, with a large number of author and book bans

Let's approach impartially, we need to compare what is comparable, nowhere has there been a change in the state structure and a breakdown of the economic formation and a complete (and not declared secular) withdrawal of the church from participation in the state. This, of course, could not but affect the amount of reviewed material. Caring for the "minds of people" is understandable and it is carried out in any state. But you are mistaken if you think if in the USSR it was aimed at combating the book in general, without a balanced approach. All these Commissions and instructions were exactly what was needed in order not to arrange a thoughtless "witch hunt". Read about Kolotilov in the dissertation, about his work in this direction - because "in the field" even "Five-digit tables of logarithms" could fall under the distribution. Although no one has ever forbidden them.
As for the countries where books are prohibited in general or in library access - everything is just different. In the 20th century, of those that are usually not heard (USA, Germany under Hitler, the Russian Empire, the USSR), I can especially single out Australia, Canada, India, Yugoslavia.

This cnidah spoke and worked not only here: the ban on Chukovsky and the Scarlet Flower - whose?

Fu, what a syllable, Andrey.
Fair? I don't know whose ban. In the proposed dissertation, let's say I didn't find anything about it. As well as in a good book by Balkova "History of librarianship". You know, I love good books, not internet articles.

[Olgovich]

Quote: Nefarious skeptic

and in 1925 it was revised, and in 1926, Descartes, Kant and almost all the others, who had fallen earlier, also returned to the libraries.

From ... bonfires?

Quote: A vile skeptic

Soviet literature was constantly rising, simply because it ceased to be relevant. And was replaced by a new one.

Exactly! Trotsky was exchanged for Bukharin, Bukharin for Beria, Beria for, etc.

Quote: Nefarious skeptic

All these Commissions and instructions were just what was needed in order not to arrange a thoughtless "witch hunt

This is what they are for.

And yes, it is not a stupid mash with a fanatic Mekhlis to decide what to read and know.

Quote: Nefarious skeptic

As for the countries where books are prohibited in general or in library access - everything is just different. In the 20th century, of those that are usually not heard (USA, Germany under Hitler, the Russian Empire, the USSR), I can especially single out Australia, Canada, India, Yugoslavia.

Such a large-scale ban, as in the USSR, was not in Europe / America ANYWHERE.

Quote: Nefarious skeptic

Fu, what a syllable, Andrey.
Fair? I don't know whose ban. In the proposed dissertation, let's say I didn't find anything about it. As well as in a good book by Balkova "History of librarianship". You know, I love good books, not internet articles.

He was and that's a fact.

Knowing this barren lamprey, I have no doubt about its authorship.

Dear Timur, you give good answers, worthy of a separate article.

But you are proving the unprovable: a huge layer of Russian Culture was demolished, which caused it irreparable harm.

This is a fact, undeniable for me

[Kwas]

Quote: Olgovich

Pre-revolutionary literature, which was massively DESTROYED by the Bolshevik regime at the state level

What a lie! Can you cite at least one FACT of the destruction of books by the Bolsheviks?
On the contrary, even that which did not fit into the official line was published and republished. For example:

In general, different things were published

[Kwas]

Quote: Olgovich

Find at least ONE book in your library ... 1930s, 1940s lol.

And finally think about why they are NOT there,

This is so that there is no doubt!

[Simargl]

Quote: Kwas

This is so that there is no doubt!

You're all lying! This is Photoshop, you just drew it yourself!

[Kwas]

Quote: Olgovich

And in 1914 the consolidated budget amounted to 660 million rubles. - 20% OF THE STATE BUDGET - for EDUCATION !!. ... This has not happened anywhere and never.

I don’t know what a "consolidated budget" is, but if this is part of the state budget, then I don’t believe that on the eve of World War I the tsar spent more on education than on the navy! And if so, then he was very ... not smart. Then it is understandable why we started that war without air and auto engines, heavy howitzers and machine guns. And I thought that everything was lowered on the ballerinas ...

[Fitter65]

Quote: Kwas

Then it is clear why we started that war without air and auto engines,

Hmm. Motor cars. !!! yes, one Renault plant in a year produced the same number of cars of different classes as tsarist russia in 10 years. What kind of aircraft cars, if simple spokes for wheels were purchased abroad,

[Free wind]

And no, the first in Russia, not in the world. It opened in 1880-90 some year. Before that, if women really wanted to get a medical education, they left.

[Olgovich]

Quote: Free Wind

And no, the first in Russia, not in the world. Opened in 1880-90 some year.

Who needs your BLANK chat?

[Far B]

at the end of the 63th century, about 1913% of those called up to serve in the Russian Imperial Army did not have a literacy, and in 33 - about XNUMX% of new recruits. From more than half to a third, the progress, you see, is impressive

Here the whole trick is that at that time it was considered a criterion for literacy. Ability to count and write - yes. But this is precisely "literacy", not "education". So the TsPSh has never spoiled the people, remaining a "persecutor of education and an outpost of obscurantism."

The Russian Empire, of course, had far from the worst in the world and not so backward system of public education.

But here kakbe, for comparison, the situation with other countries would be nice to compare, otherwise the words of the author, not confirmed by anything, look very unconvincing. Something tells me that RI was a very backward country.

[nikvic46]

The author is great. He raised this topic in time. I need to collect my thoughts. The topic is interesting.

[parusnik]

and the rest belonged to those departments for which personnel were trained.

... Vooooot .... even then they trained personnel ... Now, they give out diplomas and a tablecloth road to the world ... Look for a job ...

[The leader of the Redskins]

Hmm ... Indeed, I never thought about this topic. I just accepted it as it is - you read the biography of a historical person, and they have either a central school, or a commercial school, or a gymnasium. And you don't fully understand from what sources a person started. Thank you, the author, although it is, of course, too succinct.

[bober1982]

The era of the reign of Alexander II is known for hasty liberal reforms and it was during this period that stupid reforms of the education system were carried out.
The church school lost to the secular school, all the parish schools were subordinated to the secular school councils and zemstvos, as a result of which the public schools fell into decay.
The role of the clergy was reduced to a minimum, and a liberal riot in the education system began.
"To be or not to be the Law of God in the public school?" and, liberal howls began in the second half of the XNUMXth century and, where? - in an Orthodox country.
The collapse of such a country was only a matter of time.

[tihonmarine]

Quote: bober1982

"To be or not to be the Law of God in the public school?" and, liberal howls began in the second half of the XNUMXth century, and where?

Both the Russian Land and the Russian Country were based on this law.

[Free wind]

Parish schools were one-class, less often than two classrooms. The school day began with a prayer, then some of the students were punished with rods, just in case, then church singing and a hymn to the king. The Word of God. Well, literacy trosh. remember az, beeches, lead, verb, good, zhiveki. Who came up with it interesting. sometimes arithmetic was taught. At the end, a debriefing, a rod for better assimilation of the material and a pendel on the street. As a result, he was literate after a year of study, he could sign something, and maybe he could count on his fingers. Rods were included in the compulsory course of study. Since the blood in the head stagnates from brain activity, and all sorts of unnecessary thoughts climb into the head. And so the blood begins to circulate better from the rods, in short, solid pluses.

[tihonmarine]

Quote: Free Wind

remember az, beeches, lead, verb, good, zhiveki. Who came up with it interesting. sometimes arithmetic was taught.

During my time, we cadets were taught the code of naval signals exactly according to the old name of the alphabet, the same - Az knows God, the verb is good. Until now, the watchman has a bandage "rtsy" and the watchman has a "kako".
And everything comes from Methodius and Cyril.

[cost]

Parish schools were one-class, less often than two classrooms

Formally written correctly. Only for some reason you did not add an important point-
one-class were - (two-year) and two-class - (four-year). And that those who graduated from the two-year TsPSh were immediately admitted to the fourth grade of the rural schools.
The well-known Soviet writer Pyotr Ivanovich Zamoisky describes his studies in detail in his autobiographical story "Podpasok".

[Free wind]

There is nothing detailed there, only an exam. Maybe we studied for 2 years, then frost, then flood, then bast shoes were torn, then boots were stolen, then sowing, then harvesting. There was no time to learn. As a child, I tried to read a book, but boring ... And the school in their village is incomprehensible, it is written that the school, maybe some kind of zemstvo.

[cost]

And the school in their village is incomprehensible, it is written that it is a school, maybe a zemstvo one.

Alexander deliberately climbed into the Internet, and it turned out that rare case when both are right. It turns out that what we here call the TsPSh officially in accordance with the Charter of educational institutions from 8 (20) .12.1828 (in force until 1918) were called-primary (church) parish schools - PU. The word "church" was excluded in 1860, when these schools were transferred to the jurisdiction of the county committees of people's education. But among the people, according to old memory, they continued to be called TsPSh.

in the 1860s. PU went over. under the control of inspectors and directors of public schools, part of the PU. - under the control of school councils. In the 1860s and 70s. pl. PU. transformed into zemstvo schools, as well as city schools in accordance with the Regulations of 1872 .; single-class educational institutions began to lose their importance in connection with the development of other types of primary schools (zemstvo schools and "ministerial" schools)
PU. were kept at the expense of the treasury, local authorities, funds of the boards of trustees
PU teachers had state rights. employees, the rank of the 14th grade and much earlier than other primary school teachers received the right to a pension (since 1845), which provided a good pedagogy. composition.
In 1911 in RI there were 785 two-class (105,3 thousand students) and 3136 one-class (266 thousand students) PU; in total, they enrolled 5,6% of the total number of primary school students. In 1918 they were transformed into schools of the 1st stage.

[Boris55]

Quote: A. Kharaluzhny

From TsPSh to universities. As taught in the Russian Empire

The circular "On the Cook's Children" blocked the access of "fresh blood" to power, which led to stagnation and degeneration of the administrative apparatus. As a result - to defeat in wars: imperialist, Japanese and revolutions. The level of education of the Russian soldier was significantly inferior to that of the enemy.

ps
On VO there was an ambiguous article: "Circular about cook's children. Truth and fiction."
https://topwar.ru/151658-cirkuljar-o-kuharkinyh-detjah-pravda-i-vymysel.html

[bober1982]

ID Delyanov was a supporter of the counter-reforms of Alexander III, including in the education system.
Education had to be subordinated to the interests of the autocracy, that is, the strengthening of power, respectively - the establishment of order and tranquility in the empire.

[Boris55]

Quote: bober1982

strengthening power, respectively - establishing order and tranquility in the empire.

"The teacher wins the war " Bismarck.

And at that time there were Fursenko and Livanovs ... They do not see foreign policy behind domestic policy, which led to innumerable troubles and victims of the Russian people. The current liberals, who urge us to look only inside the country and not deal with external problems, in fact they are preparing us for another defeat.

[Sergej1972]

In practice, this circular was not particularly implemented. In addition, it was advisory in nature.

[Aviator_]

Good topic, needed. The presentation is already very short. By the way, funds from the state budget were given to the church at the Central School. How the church spent them - this is a great mystery, because as soon as the church was removed from the budget after the Revolution, it fell into decay. As for my relatives, my grandmother, a Voronezh peasant woman, born in 1897, had difficulty in signing, and then, in the 30s, she learned. Voronezh grandfather, 1893, was literate - he could read, write, and count. Another grandmother, 1897, was a teacher in a gymnasium in Khabarovsk. Another grandfather was an accountant in the same place, in the Far East, that is, literacy there (in DV) was decent.

[bober1982]

Quote: Aviator_

By the way, funds from the state budget were given to the church at the Central School. How the church spent them - this is a great mystery, for as soon as the church was removed from the budget after the Revolution, it fell into decay

In 1864, the "Statute on the elementary public schools" was published, all the central schools were transferred to the secular authorities.
The church was removed, there was no way to spend funds from the state budget.

[Aviator_]

all TsPSh passed to the secular authorities.

Do you want to say that after 1864, the TsPSh was gone? Then why did they keep their name?

[bober1982]

Quote: Aviator_

Do you want to say that after 1864, the TsPSh was gone?

I did not say that.
These schools were actually given to the zemstvos, as a result of their leadership, they fell into decay.

[bober1982]

Quote: Aviator_

Then why did they keep their name?

The fact of the matter is that one name remained.
Alexander III tried to restore order, after all these reforms of his father, but he did not have enough time and energy.

[Aviator_]

Interestingly, he put things in order by issuing a decree "On the cook's children." The retention of the name "TsPSh", perhaps, indicates the preservation of the source of funding. We have never stood on ceremony with renaming; if necessary, they will instantly rename. So it wasn’t necessary.

[bober1982]

Quote: Aviator_

Interestingly, he put things in order by issuing a decree "On the cook's children"

Yes, it was in the interests of the autocracy. Students disbanded, if very briefly and, it was necessary to somehow take urgent measures.
Any education corrupts, cannot but corrupt.

Quote: Aviator_

The retention of the name "TsPSh", perhaps, indicates the preservation of the source of funding.

The church was completely excluded from the education process, the state itself made of them something, like hired workers, they were ashamed to cancel the lessons of the Word of God. There was no question of any funding.
And, as a result, drunkenness, debauchery and disobedience to the authorities are all around, according to the All-Russian Father John
By 1917 - take everyone with your bare hands, which is what happened.

[Aviator_]

Any education corrupts, cannot but corrupt.

If you stop evil - collect all the books, but burn! (Griboyedov, "Woe from Wit")

[bober1982]

Quote: Aviator_

Griboyedov

Poetry! I love her passionately ... A.S. Griboyedov
By the way, the behavior was passionate, which ruined him, he had to watch himself.

[Simargl]

Quote: bober1982

Any education corrupts, cannot but corrupt.

Right! Than to read to learn - it is better to pray!

[cost]

In 1864, the "Statute on the elementary public schools" was published, all the central schools were transferred to the secular authorities.

Pyotr Ivanovich Zamoysky in his autobiographical story "Podpasok" writes that he graduated from the Central School of Music with a letter of commendation county committee of public education and the UKNO prize, for which the large family of his parents was able to purchase a cow. I have no idea how much a cow cost at the beginning of the century, but I think not a little

[hohol95]

Pyotr Ivanovich Zamoysky in his autobiographical story "Podpasok" writes that he graduated from the Central School of Education with a letter of commendation from the district committee of public education and the UKNO prize, for which a large family of his parents was able to buy a cow. How much a cow cost at the beginning of the century I have no idea, but I think
not a little

The real surname is Zevalkin. But this is not important. The important thing is how many children from his family also received education.
ZAMOISKY PETER IVANOVICH. Autobiography (... a few words about how I write.)

In this village, in the haymaking of 1896, I was born into the family of a poor peasant, Ivan Yakovlevich Zevalkin. The family was large - ten souls, but there was not enough land, there was no more bread than before the new year.
Father worked for many years on the estate of "mistress" Vladykina. The older brothers were also either farm laborers or shepherds. The same fate was destined for me, and for several years I was engaged in the same business.
I developed an addiction to the printed word from the age of six. By chance I got hold of an ABC book, and I learned to read on my own. The love of reading was passed on from his father, a shy and devout man. My mother hated everything in print, even spiritual books. She considered all this "idleness" and assured me, scolding my father and me, that our poverty comes from these books, from a waste of time reading them. She died illiterate.

But he himself in this text does not indicate how many of his brothers studied!
He writes only about himself ...
It turns out that from the whole family, only one was sent to study chato - the most capable and had a desire to study!
For those who did not want to learn from their parents, there were many other activities - working in the field, looking after younger children, farm laborers, and so on.

[nikvic46]

I thought for a long time why people who graduated from the Central School of Arts remember every rule in grammar. At first, these rules were often in poetic form. Secondly, there was no such stormy information environment as in subsequent years. Neither you radio, nor you television. I graduated from school, and went straight to my craft. I liked the post. You can't tell everything. There were also a very small number of evening schools for young workers. And one shouldn't think that propaganda corners were only politics. The main goal was to teach thinking.

[Simargl]

Quote: nikvic46

Secondly, there was no such stormy information environment as in subsequent years.

If you had to memorize as little theory as in the course of the TsPSh, you would also memorize a lot. And the radio has nothing to do with it.

[nikvic46]

Andrei: I would like to say that the abundance of information erases a lot in memory.

[evgen1221]

I'll bring in my five kopecks. We often comment on the affairs of the past from today's bell towers, absolutely sweeping aside that level of mentality and thinking (and it was in many ways different from our days), hence the useless arguments and screams in 90%. General education actually appeared during the union, before that nothing more than education and the ability to somehow count and put a signature. Education is always subordinated to the production of the necessary cadres for the country if the authorities are interested in them (the bourgeois and officers fled to the revolution, if you like it or not, train new specialists to replace it), At the same time, in the Republic of Ingushetia, the ruling and financial and industrial circles did not really need universal literate people (the whip and the clerk plus the estate - they had enough of this) Hence the small number and quality of mass education, well, even 2-3 schools in the city of Barnaul at that time are not funny, and how many of them were opened in the first years after the civil. Even Catherine was going to abolish the serfs, but it was the mortar and the mood of the ruling and financial and industrial circles that prevented it, the case died out. So it is with schools - if the authorities in the country are profitable dummies, plus also intoxicated by religious worship in the holiness of the ruler and pseudo-patriotism (and not this power of achievement), then this power will cultivate them (there are direct analogies with today)

[sergo1914]

The main thing in the article:

However, Russia was able to become a country of universal literacy, the most reading in the world and possessing the most powerful scientific personnel only after the establishment of Soviet power.

[Kwas]

For the sake of completeness, it would be very nice to give the numbers of students in different types of educational institutions. So, according to TSB (2 editions):
According to official data, in 1914/1915, 9,6 million people studied in schools throughout Russia within the borders of the USSR, of which 8,6 million were in elementary school.
In general education secondary schools and secondary specialized educational institutions - 679,3 thousand
In universities - 127,4 thousand.

Another very important factor for education was the number of books published. I did not find this data. I can judge by the books left in my family from pre-revolutionary times. There are about 200-300 of them, for three houses, despite the fact that the entire generation of grandfathers and grandmothers, without exception, had a higher natural education, loved to read, books were never thrown away and were not subjected to ruin like dispossession or occupation. Although one of the houses was confiscated, the books were preserved as the greatest value. All the same, let's put a factor of 2 for a certain "natural decline", in total there were no more than 500-1000 books. The total number of books for the same three houses is now probably 15-30 thousand. I think that is quite eloquent.

[dgonni]

Haraluzhny again writes all kinds of heresy. The annual fee for a classical gymnasium was in the region of 80-100 rubles. What was available for the family of a worker and a middle peasant. And this is already the double price adopted after the decree on the children of cooks!
Craft schools required much less money. And in terms of the level of knowledge they received, they corresponded to Soviet technical schools.
Zemsky schools built before the beginning of the First World War are still used in the villages for their intended purpose. The quality of construction is simply gorgeous compared to the times of the late USSR and the present. The transoms at the frames have not yet rotted or warped and are easy to open despite a hundred-year-old paint coat!
The fact that Lunacharsky picked up the idea of ​​universal literacy from tsarism does not mean that under the same tsarism everything was terribly bad!

[Ryazan87]

If someone has a desire to read something serious about education in the late Russian Empire, you need to get acquainted with the works of at least this level: https://rummuseum.ru/kostroma/rabochie530.php
For example, here is some curious information about the social origin of students at the Uglich Women's Gymnasium (data for 1917 - just before the revolution):
- children of peasants - 132 pupils.
- daughters of the townspeople - 126 people,
- clergy - 55 people,
- officials - 31 people,
- merchants - 29 people,
- teachers - 14 people,
- nobles - 8 people,
- others - 21 people.
"So, in the Yaroslavl Mariinsky female gymnasium for 1867-1914. The representation of the bourgeoisie increased from 27% to 42,2%, and of peasants from 2% to 20,4%. In the district gymnasiums, this growth was even more noticeable .."
By the way, about the fee - "... Schoolgirls who did well in all subjects, as well as girls from low-income families whose parents could not pay tuition fees were exempted from it. On the contrary, these categories of students were allocated social scholarships for the poor and personal scholarships for excellent pupils. " True, social scholarships were given by no means in every educational institution; it was here that the Uglich Zemstvo and the merchant class went overboard.
But excellent students really could study for free. What, by the way, used Leonid Ilyich Brezhnev, from a family of workers, who graduated from high school in the town of Kamenskoye for free.
He himself wrote about it:
"... at the age of nine I was accepted into the preparatory class of the Kamensk men's classical
gymnasiums ... a special competition was arranged for us, they took the most talented, about one out of fifteen, only seven sons of the workers were accepted that year. We were called “state scholarships”. This does not mean that we received a scholarship, but only that on condition of excellent success we were exempted from tuition fees. "
And here is the working dad Ilya Yakovlevich Brezhnev.

[north 2]

the whole trouble of the communists was that they were afraid that people would not begin to study the true history of Russia, so that people, God forbid, would not receive an answer to the question, how did the Tsars create the largest Empire from the Little Moscow Kingdom in a rather short historical time ... So only, the communists loved to sing that ... MY NATIVE MOTHER IS WIDE, LOTS OF FORESTS FIELDS AND RIVERS IN IT ... and who and most importantly why this country so wide was created as a legacy, the communists were afraid to even hint at history lessons in schools ... Yes, and in the Soviet army, try to ask a political officer at political classes that they shouldn't be so shitty about the Tsars and Tsarism, because they created and left us a legacy of such a wide country, where there are many forests, fields and rivers. Specialist for such questions would be guaranteed.
From this we can conclude that the Bolsheviks did not have time to realize what kind of country they are acquiring through the revolution. The seizure of power, Lenin's theses only about the future, as if the history of Russia until then did not exist, the Civil War, etc. But then the communists under Khrushchev and Brezhnev
could teach the people the true history of the Russian Empire. After all, this wide country where there are many forests, fields and rivers, bit by bit, was collected by the far-sighted Kings and the educated elite, the intelligentsia, the officer
the estate of that Great Empire of the Russian State. And there you would see and it would open your eyes that if you do not study the true history of your country, then Khrushchev and then Gorbachev will surely appear one day and then there will no longer be a country that was created by the Tsars and received by the Communists, as a historical relay of the legacy of generations.

[Trilobite Master]

The case when I don't want to encourage the author with comments at all, but since I went in and read the article itself, I decided to speak out once.
The article is frankly weak - there are very few specific figures and references to research, however, colleagues have already noted this. Without these numbers and references, it turns into a kind of agitation, nothing more. I expected to glean interesting information from the article, for example, about how much education literally cost from elementary to higher education on average, how much at a minimum, how the cost of education changed depending on its profile (military, technical, humanitarian), etc. But, apparently, I wanted too much - no one here is going to indulge us with such research.
However, in order for the next felling to begin between the "white" and "red" this is enough, and apparently the author did not pursue other goals.

[BAI]

at the end of the 63th century, about 1913% of those called up to serve in the Russian Imperial Army did not have a literacy, and in 33 - about XNUMX% of new recruits.

With one stroke of the pen, the author threw out from the register the inhabitants of Central Asia, the Caucasus, etc., who were not drafted into the army. And got a blissful picture.

[Kwas]

Yes, as far as I know, before the revolution there was not a single university in the whole of Central Asia!

[Free wind]

Did they need them? Donkey is not necessary to drive especially knowledge. Camels with hashish walk on their own, the caravan man navigates the saxakals, pumpkins and watermelons grow on their own. Hajj to perform in order to receive the honorary prefix kishmish ibn apricot, and so they will drive away. The madrasah was full. Yes, and there to learn the Koran, but learn to do cutting. The farmer laid out the farm on the block, a bale with a hatchet, and the faithful is ready.

[Kwas]

Let's leave the locals alone, but there were also at least 2-3 million Russians at the beginning of the XNUMXth century! Including my great-grandfathers.

[deddem]

Quote: Fitter65

I don’t know why everyone says - is he breaking like a gray gelding? I must say - he is lying like an olgovich!

Alas, Saprykin is lying and others like him.
And Olgovich - sincerely BELIEVES. Like many other people with critical thinking atrophy. I would have read other books in due time - I would now measure the level of R1a1 in the blood of everyone around. Or I would look at the ears and eyes of the reptilians in the photo.

From his angry philippics, to be honest, it becomes a little uncomfortable - it is clear that the person is going through, his blow will still be enough, from our demonstrative inattention to his Most Bright True Truth.

[Unknown]

after Peter, none of the Holstein-Gottorp-Romanov family even thought to introduce at least elementary education in R.I. hence all our troubles. in Prussia, by the "greatest special decree" of September 28, 1717, the Prussian king Frederick William I introduced compulsory school attendance for children from five to 12 years old. Two hundred years before the thief! and it still gives results. and as he used to say after the Prussian-Austrian war, Bismarck, "the school teacher won the war". This, in contrast to the tsars, was well understood by the Soviet government, and the civil war was still in full swing, and the Decree of the Council of People's Commissars "On the elimination of illiteracy among the population of the RSFSR" was issued. December 26, 1919. like this . and then all the Soviet power. bad.

[Aleksandr1971]

The article is extremely weak, since it does not correspond to the declared title.

I say this as a person with an academic degree, academic title and work experience in the field of higher education. If you declare a scientific or popular science work with such a title, then the content of the work must correspond to the title.

The author should, in order to match the title of the article, highlight the following issues, the state of the circumstances.

1. The goals of state policy in the field of education in tsarist Russia. I must say that the state did not have clear goals then, and priorities jumped from one tsar to the next tsar, from one education minister to the next education minister. I believe that the lack of a clear goal-setting was due to the class nature of the state and the parasitic position of the ruling class of landowners headed by the tsar, with all its subjectivist pluses and minuses.

2. System and structure of education. The lack of a clear goal of state policy in the field of education in tsarist Russia led to the absence of a harmonious education system.

3. Methodology of education. The methodology was aimed at training students. Unfortunately, the Russian education of the tsarist period could not create new knowledge, and rare nuggets of the late 19th century, like Mendeleev and a few others, only emphasized the sad picture of the terrible lag of Russian science behind science in Western Europe. There are two reasons for lagging behind: a) bureaucracy and lack of freedom in education, above all in higher education; b) the underdevelopment of capitalism, which could show the commercial attractiveness of science (an example in France - the work of L. Pasteur in the field of viticulture and brewing). As a result, the Russian education of the tsarist period stuffed students with religious shit (this was especially the case for the Minister of Education, Count, Admiral Putyatin), as well as, to a small extent, with the results of research in France and England.

4. Economics of education. The author did not show at all how much tsarist Russia spent on education and what was the economic effect of education.

5. Sociology of education. The author of the article did not show sections of education on the social structure of society, which of course changed during the 17th - early 20th century. I will note that if in 1920 more than 80% of the population was not literate, then this is the result of a number of circumstances. Only partly due to the anti-popular tsarist rule. Partly 80% of the illiterate is the result of the fact that even more anti-popular Bolsheviks killed the literate. And other literate people left Russia.

6. The connection between education and science is absolutely not shown in the article. But education is the transfer to students of the knowledge that has been developed in the depths of science.

7. The author wrote an article on a historical topic because he tried to highlight what was in the past. And historicism also presupposes comparison with analogs. There was no comparison in the article and this is a mistake made by the author of the article. It was necessary to describe education in tsarist Russia in comparison with what was happening in the relevant areas in Europe, Asia and the United States.

In general, I, as a teacher with 20 years of experience, give the author of the article a “minus point” and suggest that the dean's office leave the author of the article to re-study the course, or even expel him from training.

[Kwas]

Quote: Olgovich

The LIBRARY in the barracks was NOT created, for there was nowhere to SLEEP, not that books to collect, when will you understand this?

Here is one of two things. Either this is your personal childhood impression, and then what kind of "Big Noble" is there, or it is you who innocently believed someone.