Military Review

Small-sized automatic machine AM-17

113

The small-sized machine AM-17 is a further development of the small-sized machine MA, created by the designer Evgeny Fedorovich Dragunov back in the late 1970s. Forty years later, the design of the Dragunov assault rifle found a second life. Within the framework of the Army-2016 forum, Izhevsk gunsmiths showed an updated version of MA. The small-sized automatic machine AM-17 became a logical continuation of the previously presented model. His debut to the general public took place in 2017.


Since then, the process of refinement and improvement has continued. weapons... It is known that the preliminary factory tests of the novelty have been completed. Ahead are state tests and the prospect of serial production of the machine. Many experts believe that the AM-17 will be able to replace the obsolete AKS-74U assault rifles in the troops, and it will also appeal to various Russian law enforcement agencies: the FSB, the Ministry of Internal Affairs, the Russian Guard, the FSO, etc.

The history of the appearance of the machine AM-17


The new Izhevsk assault rifle is rooted in the development of the famous Soviet weapons designer Evgeny Fedorovich Dragunov. This constructor, forever included in history domestic small arms as the creator of the SVD sniper rifle, worked not only on army and sporting rifles. Back in the late 1970s, he designed the AM machine gun, which could be called unique for its time.

There is an opinion that AM was developed within the framework of the Modern competition, which ultimately won the AKS-74U assault rifle, but this is not the case. The development of the MA machine was carried out by TsNIITOCHMASH specialists within a completely separate topic. The new automatic weapon, according to the press service of the Kalashnikov group of companies, was developed as part of the creation of a "small-sized machine gun with extensive use of plastic." For its time, it was a unique example of Soviet small arms.

Small-sized automatic machine AM-17

Larry Vickers with an MA, summer 2016

What made the MA submachine gun stand out among all other models of the Russian weapons school? According to experts, the first important difference of the model was the design of the receiver. To put it as simply as possible, all the most important components of the assault rifle, the bolt, the bolt carrier, the barrel, the return mechanism, were "suspended" on the original form of a metal plate, which was the upper part of the receiver and the basis of the design of the new assault rifle. In turn, only the trigger mechanism remained in the lower part.

Many may rightly ask: what is so special about it? The answer to this question is quite simple. Dragunov presented the most logical and perhaps the only way to significantly reduce the weight of the machine. All samples of domestic small arms, including the SVD sniper rifle, differed in a different layout. On them, the receiver in the literal sense was somewhat reminiscent of an ordinary box. You take off the lid, and under it, as if at the "bottom" of a real box, was all the contents: the barrel mount, the bolt, the trigger. This arrangement was time-tested, but had one significant drawback: such small arms were extremely difficult to facilitate. The designers simply could not get away from the very "box" in which everything was located.

Traditional weapons had another important drawback. It included the difficulty of installing various modern sights - not only optical, but also collimator. Such sights were installed from above. And it was here on the traditional models of Soviet small arms that the receiver cover was located, which was easily removed. It was on the cover that all the optics were installed. And then the question naturally arose: will not such sights constantly play and get confused during the operation of the weapon?


MA assault rifle with folded stock

The layout of the new machine gun designed by Dragunov solved this problem, since the optics were placed on the very "plate" on which the bolt and barrel were fixed, backlash was simply excluded here. At the same time, the entire lower part of the box could be made of lightweight materials: impact-resistant plastic or aluminum. The latter made it possible to significantly reduce the weight of the machine.

In the 1970s, the technical solutions proposed by Evgeny Dragunov were not appreciated at their true worth, and the MA machine gun was recorded as not the most successful samples. Already assembled models lay for more than 40 years in the storage of the design and weapons center, until they were again paid attention to. Already in the XXI century, the MA in a new reincarnation was able to find a second life.

Features of the small-sized machine AM-17


The AM-17, like its predecessor MA, is a modern model of small arms, in the creation of which advanced technologies are used. As noted in the Kalashnikov group of companies, the AM-17 assault rifle was completely designed using digital technologies. The "electronic model" of the Izhevsk novelty fully complies with all the physical components. The development of the AM-17 assault rifle was carried out in a single digital environment.

Remembering the MA machine gun, the Izhevsk gunsmiths in a short time created two new models of small arms: AM-17 and AMB-17 (for silent shooting). They managed to realize the very advantages of the design that Evgeny Fedorovich Dragunov laid in his development. Thanks to this, the AM-17 assault rifle weighs only 2,5 kg, which is a kilogram less than conventional AK and less than the weight of the well-known shortened AKS-74U assault rifle (2,7 kg) with a folding stock.


Experts note that the new AM-17 assault rifle made it possible to correct almost all the shortcomings that were inherent in the AKS-74U model. This assault rifle is still a formidable and fully functional weapon, but it is already morally outdated. While retaining its compact dimensions, the new AM-17 assault rifle can accommodate a full-length Picatinny rail. Thanks to this, the model can easily be fitted with the most modern optical and collimator sights.

On the muzzle of the AM-17 barrel, as on other models of Kalashnikov assault rifles, you can see a flame arrester compensator, which makes the fighter more invisible when firing at dusk and at night. Like any Kalashnikov assault rifle, the novelty is able to fire in two modes: automatic (bursts) and single shots. An important feature of the novelty is the ergonomics and ease of use of weapons for both right-handed and left-handed people. The designers made the fuse and the translator of fire modes double-sided, and the bolt handle can be easily placed on either side of the AM-17 small-sized machine gun.

The new small-sized machine is made with the wide use of modern high-impact polymers, which made it possible to significantly reduce its weight. The manufacturer claims a weight of only 2,5 kg (without cartridges). In addition to its low weight, the important advantages of the new item are its intuitive ergonomics and simplicity and ease of use of the weapon in any position. The rifle butt is also made of polymers. The stock can be easily adjusted in length based on the shooter's anthropometric data. Its key element is a tubular part, which is attached to the receiver of the machine using a hinge device. According to the AM-17 developers, the soldier will be able to fire from the weapon even with the stock folded, while the fighter will not experience any difficulties.


An early version of the AM-17 assault rifle disassembled

The total length of the new small-sized machine gun AM-17 is comparable to the AKS-74U (730 mm) and is 740 mm, with the stock folded, the length is identical - 490 mm. Both machines are designed for the 5,45x39 mm cartridge. At the same time, the novelty received a longer barrel - 230 mm versus 206,5 mm on the AKS-74U. This should positively affect the ballistic characteristics of the new model. The AM-17 is equipped with a traditional 30-round box magazine. A distinctive feature of the store is the presence of transparent windows that allow you to estimate the number of remaining cartridges.

As noted by Russian weapons experts, the new product from the Kalashnikov group of companies is more effective than the AKS-74U, as it is made from new materials and has great potential for waging combat in urban conditions, including indoors. At the same time, the machine gun is a limited-action weapon; maneuverability comes to the fore when using such a weapon. In addition to the security forces, such weapons will be in demand by crews of armored vehicles, as well as combat helicopters and aircraft.
Author:
Photos used:
https://kalashnikov.media
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  1. Pessimist22
    Pessimist22 28 August 2020 05: 42 New
    +9
    Soviet developments are being modernized, but there is no way to do something new.
    1. Uncle lee
      Uncle lee 28 August 2020 06: 05 New
      11
      In the 1970s, technical solutions proposed by Evgeny Dragunov
      That's the years in which it was developed! Time has no power over masterpieces!
      1. Note
        Note 28 August 2020 17: 28 New
        -1
        40 years ago, it was recognized as a bad design. Well, not casual, right? What has changed now? Nothing, except for QC's attempts to sell everything that is possible, what is needed and not needed. I will repeat myself. A completely unnecessary weapon. What did not suit Aksu? Partially replace metal with plastic, add the rest of the functionality from this sample and everything will work out the same, but unification with AK will remain. The plus is simple and reliable. AM 17 is difficult to maintain and not at all reliable during prolonged use in conditions of increased pollution. Has anyone even compared these products from this position?
        1. psiho117
          psiho117 28 August 2020 18: 59 New
          10
          Quote: Note
          40 years ago, it was recognized as an unsuccessful design. Well, not casual, right?

          Everything flows, everything changes. AEK didn’t win then either, but now they don’t get enough of him.
          Quote: Note
          What has changed now?

          New materials, new technologies for production and assembly, computer modeling appeared.
          Quote: Note
          What did not suit Aksu? Replace partially metal with plastic, add the rest of the functionality from this sample and everything will work out the same

          Will not work. The AKS-74U is actually a rather "ersatz" weapon, not originally designed for police functions, except on the forearm, there is nowhere to stick the bar.
          No, with a strong desire, you can make candy out of it, but still, it is better to have a normal small-sized machine, originally developed for this purpose, and not a "stub" from a full-size one.
          Quote: Note
          AM 17 is difficult to maintain and not at all reliable during prolonged use in conditions of increased pollution.

          Is that what you said? or is it an expert opinion of the commission, based on the results of trial operation?
          This is a normal police weapon, no one crawls in shit with it, and does not row instead of an oar. This weapon is important for accuracy, light weight, and tactical adaptability, for all kinds of fake whistles.
          1. Note
            Note 29 August 2020 13: 03 New
            -3
            Police weapons under the caliber 5,45x39 and 9x39? Have you tried to use these cartridges in a police work environment in the city? And as for the use of weapons with an automation scheme similar to AM 17, everything is so, it is sensitive to pollution of any kind, even very insignificant, including dust, I can also add from myself that after shooting the first store it is better to start cleaning, since the gas outlet the node is already heavily contaminated and begins to affect the operation of the automation, in the form of various delays and an increase in output to indecent values.
            1. psiho117
              psiho117 29 August 2020 14: 55 New
              +3
              Quote: Note
              Police weapons under the caliber 5,45x39 and 9x39?
              And what do you think the SOBR, OMON, FSB, National Guard are armed with? With digging sticks? Most of any guns are machines under 5,45.
              Have you ever tried to use these cartridges in the work of a police officer in the city?
              Yes, as it were, the whole world has applied, is applying and will apply.
              And as for the use of weapons with an automation scheme similar to AM 17, everything is so, sensitive to pollution of any kind, even very insignificant, including dust, I can also add from myself that after shooting the first store it is better to start cleaning, since the gas the node is already very dirty

              For some reason it seems to me that you consider Dragunov Sr. an idiot.
              And along with the entire Soviet design school.

              Something tells me that it is not so hi
              1. Note
                Note 30 August 2020 12: 03 New
                0
                Something tells me that you had nothing to do with weapons, at least not with combat or special weapons. As for your words that I consider Dragunov and the Soviet school something offensive, then on your part it is simply disgusting. Do you think that commenting from the couch with absolutely no experience and knowledge, but at the same time appealing to our blessed memory, is worthy of respect? Dragunov created samples of weapons with which I worked. SVD for example. It is a masterpiece. In this niche of weapon systems. Until now. But knowing what its automation scheme is and operating with firsthand known values, including when working with similar samples, I make my judgments on this site. Unfortunately, until now I have not met anyone here who can be called a specialist in this field and who meets at least some criteria of a person who has understanding in the issues discussed on this profile or similar, and therefore I no longer consider it interesting to post my comments on this media resource.
          2. gross kaput
            gross kaput 11 September 2020 23: 43 New
            0
            Quote: psiho117
            AEK didn’t win then either, but now they don’t get enough of him.

            Who! - the reason for the "adoption" of the AK12 that the AEK is one - the maintenance of trousers for factories at the expense of the state defense order. Nothing radically changed in its design, the AEK did not get into service at the time, absolutely rightly, it did not meet the efficiency requirements laid down in the "Abakan" competition where, as you know, AN 94 won, AEK's trouble is that balanced automation does not give serious advantages on scattering ed. comparable to the complexity of the design. At the same time, if at 5,45 this increase in efficiency is still there, then at 7,62 with its "pure" recoil impulse, the effect of the balancer tends to zero.
        2. gross kaput
          gross kaput 11 September 2020 23: 48 New
          0
          Quote: Note
          40 years ago, it was recognized as a bad design.

          Why's that? MA was fully worked out, in terms of performance characteristics it was even closer to the requirements of the competition than AKS74U, in terms of reliability it was brought up. Just by the time the MA was brought to mind, a fundamental decision had already been made to adopt the AKS74U as the most unified with the AK74 already produced and in service, which gave a profit and almost eliminated surprises when launching into a series and when mastering in the army.
    2. Obi-Wan Kenobi
      Obi-Wan Kenobi 28 August 2020 06: 07 New
      14
      Soviet developments are being modernized, but there is no way to do something new.

      And who will develop it? Effective managers?
    3. Sergey_G_M
      Sergey_G_M 28 August 2020 06: 16 New
      10
      Who in the world has done something new lately?
      1. Catfish
        Catfish 28 August 2020 06: 47 New
        12
        My neighbor gave birth to a son. smile
        1. Sergey_G_M
          Sergey_G_M 28 August 2020 06: 49 New
          +7
          I congratulate the neighbor! I hope your walls are thick, otherwise I don't envy you for the next couple of years lol
          1. Catfish
            Catfish 28 August 2020 06: 53 New
            10
            Congratulations when he is able to receive smile ... There is a sea of ​​joy. Everything is in order with the walls, just a neighbor's plot in the village. hi
        2. ioan-e
          ioan-e 28 August 2020 11: 10 New
          +3
          Quote: Sea Cat
          My neighbor gave birth to a son. smile

          Did you give birth directly? This is definitely new!
          1. Catfish
            Catfish 28 August 2020 11: 39 New
            +5
            Well, let's just say: not without his help.
          2. Alf
            Alf 28 August 2020 19: 20 New
            +3
            Quote: ioan-e
            Quote: Sea Cat
            My neighbor gave birth to a son. smile

            Did you give birth directly? This is definitely new!

            What's new? Here Schwarzenegger gave birth 30 years ago, in "Gemini". Still, we are lagging behind the leading countries in something. laughing
            1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
              Kote Pan Kokhanka 28 August 2020 20: 02 New
              +2
              Like the one in the Bible! Isaac gave birth to Abraham, Abraham - Neggov, etc. So Schwarzenegger is crying quietly on the sidelines, along with the genetic engineers and the ghost of Dolly the sheep! drinks
        3. Alf
          Alf 28 August 2020 19: 18 New
          +3
          Quote: Sea Cat
          My neighbor gave birth to a son. smile

          "From me" or "from me"? The difference is significant ... laughing
          1. Catfish
            Catfish 28 August 2020 19: 44 New
            +2
            Vasya is a prankster. "With me" - it means in my village, and nothing more. I did not participate in this event in any way. stop
            1. Alf
              Alf 28 August 2020 19: 52 New
              +2
              Quote: Sea Cat
              I did not participate in this event in any way.

              The most important thing in life is the education of children. Therefore, I try to create as many of them as possible. laughing
              1. Catfish
                Catfish 28 August 2020 20: 25 New
                +3
                I respect the approach to the issue. laughing How do the ladies feel about this?
                1. Alf
                  Alf 28 August 2020 20: 28 New
                  +2
                  Quote: Sea Cat
                  I respect the approach to the issue. laughing How do the ladies feel about this?

                  If after 30, then it is extremely positive.
      2. Bersaglieri
        Bersaglieri 28 August 2020 12: 16 New
        +4
        There is nothing new in Strelkovka for the last 50+ years. Nowadays everything is "refined" to the limit parameters with traditional principles (barrel + gunpowder). Something new can appear only when changing the cardinal scheme (and here physics interferes, such an infection :))
        1. kvs45
          kvs45 28 August 2020 14: 33 New
          0
          [quote] [/ In "Strelkovka" - nothing new in the last 50+ years. Nowadays, everything is "refined" to the limit parameters with the traditional principles (barrel + gunpowder). Something new can appear only when changing the cardinal scheme (and here physics interferes, such an infection :))
          quote]
          Physics does not interfere with making a cartridge for a short barrel, but using cartridges for a long barrel with different conditions for burning gunpowder is a palliative and presenting a 40-year-old product as a novelty ..... Advertising article, that says it all (((((
    4. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 28 August 2020 09: 19 New
      10
      Quote: Pessimist22
      Soviet developments are being modernized, but there is no way to do something new.

      Better proven designs - less likely to get an L85 or G36. smile
      For example, an innovative technical solution in the G36 - planting the barrel in the plastic receiver.

      And then the army men get into Afghan and suddenly find out that in a combat situation during prolonged shooting the barrel does not have time to cool down - and the accuracy drops sharply. And they are trying to sue H&K - to which the company replies that they themselves did not prescribe such a requirement in the TK - suffer yourself, we only fulfilled what you gave us.
      1. Kalmar
        Kalmar 28 August 2020 09: 41 New
        10
        Quote: Alexey RA
        And they are trying to sue H&K - to which the company replies that they themselves did not write such a requirement in the TK - suffer yourself, we just did what you gave us.

        Well, this is a well-known truth among programmers: "Without a normal TK, it turns out HZ"))
      2. Alexfly
        Alexfly 28 August 2020 11: 15 New
        0
        so all the trunks are heated, if you want to stretch the pleasure - pay with the weight for the weighted trunk. Do you really think that after 50 shots your accuracy will not change? And how!!
        1. Alexey RA
          Alexey RA 28 August 2020 12: 39 New
          +5
          Quote: AlexFly
          so all the trunks are heated, if you want to stretch the pleasure - pay with the weight for the weighted trunk.

          The G36 wasn't about the barrel overheating. And the fact that the heated barrel softened the plastic of the receiver.
          1. Alexfly
            Alexfly 28 August 2020 13: 48 New
            +1
            It is clear now, otherwise the accuracy drops sharply .......
          2. psiho117
            psiho117 28 August 2020 19: 04 New
            +1
            Quote: Alexey RA
            the heated barrel softened the plastic of the receiver

            Still, I think this is not a jamb of TK, but a jamb of the Heckleurs themselves.
            For a company with their name, it's a shame. And then to make a surprised face, and say "we don't know anything, we didn't specify it" - this is a doubly shame.
            There is an obvious mistake of the designers, using the wrong materials - was it really so difficult to choose heat-resistant plastic?
            1. Alexey RA
              Alexey RA 31 August 2020 11: 44 New
              +1
              Quote: psiho117
              Still, I think this is not a jamb of TK, but a jamb of the Heckleurs themselves.
              For a company with their name, it's a shame. And then to make a surprised face, and say "we don't know anything, we didn't specify it" - this is a doubly shame.
              There is an obvious mistake of the designers, using the wrong materials - was it really so difficult to choose heat-resistant plastic?

              Judging by the materials of the hearing of the "G36 case" in court, it is the Bundeswehr's fault.
              At the end of the first day of the hearing, Judge Ralph Volkmann issued a clear warning to the German Defense Ministry. So. the technical conditions of the original version of the contract, signed in the early 1990s, were not revised, even after 2011, when the Bundeswehr began to note an increase in claims and problems with the G36, especially during the combat use of the rifle in Afghanistan.

              Despite all this, the Bundeswehr continued to accept weapons produced by Heckler & Koch, although the Arms Department insisted on revising the specifications of the contract in the light of the problems identified. The judge ruled that "contracts continued to be concluded in the same manner as in the past." Which, a priori, excludes any claims for damages, despite the fact that Heckler & Koch itself proposed several options for a significant modernization of weapons.
              © bmpd
              Moreover, in other versions of the G36 there is no such innovative solution - the company has fixed everything. But in the Bundeswehr, everything remained the same.
              1. psiho117
                psiho117 31 August 2020 18: 57 New
                0
                Quote: Alexey RA
                in other versions of the G36 there is no such innovative solution - the company has fixed everything

                Well, it means they are to blame ...
                Although, what else to expect with a woman minister of defense.
          3. gross kaput
            gross kaput 11 September 2020 23: 31 New
            0
            Damn well, are not you tired? The reasons for the increased dispersion during overheating in the G36 were sorted out 6 years ago, and you still cannot part with that horror story. There is no and there was no softening. but there was a violation of the technology by MEN of the manufacturer of cartridges which were mainly used by the Bundes. We read the Russian edition of DWJ in the Kalashnikov magazine # 10 for 2014. or read the original source - the report on the study of problems with Ge36 from December 13th https://www.heckler-koch.com/de/presse/detail/article/sturmgewehr-g36-untersuchung-zum-streuungs-und-treffpunktverhalten-der -waffe-im-heissgeschossenen.html download the PDF report on the page and enjoy.
        2. Izotovp
          Izotovp 28 August 2020 21: 53 New
          0
          At Pecheneg it heats up much less.)
    5. Kalmar
      Kalmar 28 August 2020 09: 25 New
      +5
      Quote: Pessimist22
      Soviet developments are being modernized, but there is no way to do something new.

      It seems to be yes, but on the other hand, why reinvent the bicycle? And then, for a long time, the minds of the Soviet military were dominated by the idea of ​​total unification with the AK, which led to the lack of due interest in a considerable number of interesting developments - including the Dragunov assault rifle. Times are different now, these developments may get a second chance.
    6. vVvAD
      vVvAD 28 August 2020 13: 48 New
      -1
      Quote: Pessimist22
      Soviet developments are being modernized, but there is no way to do something new.

      No, not so.
      They are modernized, revived on a new technological base and improved where experience is usually simply lost, and try to create something new, stepping on the same rake twice.
    7. Zaurbek
      Zaurbek 29 August 2020 10: 19 New
      0
      The same development but adjusted for materials and equipment in the 60s and 2020s are different products with different characteristics.
      Why not make these assault rifles with different barrels - short-normal-heavy? The cartridge is automatic.
      1. psiho117
        psiho117 29 August 2020 14: 58 New
        0
        This is not a replacement for the AK lineup. It doesn't need a long or heavy barrel.
        It was originally a small-sized short-barreled machine gun for police purposes.
        1. Zaurbek
          Zaurbek 29 August 2020 17: 06 New
          0
          A special police machine gun is either a PP for pistols cartridge or a machine gun for 9x39. For specific tasks. And if the caliber is normal 5,45 / 7,62x39, then this is already an ordinary machine gun. The shortened barrel is one of the versions.
          1. psiho117
            psiho117 29 August 2020 23: 50 New
            0
            The word "police machine" means not only traffic cops standing on the highway, with this machine gun on their side. For this, they really have a Vityaz-type PP.
            A police machine gun is a weapon with which employees of the internal affairs bodies can perform the whole range of tasks assigned to them.
            Including counter-terrorist operations against a well-armed and protected enemy (requires "automatic" firepower and armor penetration, which cannot be provided by submachine guns under a pistol cartridge),
            as well as operations to storm residential buildings and release hostages, which requires high accuracy of shooting, and the ability to quickly transfer fire from target to target (which is not particularly convenient with a 9x39 caliber - it actually has a very high recoil, and also there are no bullets type PRS).
            Plus, the weapon needs to be small and light, for the convenience of being on alert.
            1. Zaurbek
              Zaurbek 30 August 2020 08: 29 New
              0
              All this will be hampered by a short barrel. Terrorists love AKM and AK74. And the short trunk will mow and warm.
  2. YOUR
    YOUR 28 August 2020 06: 18 New
    +7
    Here is the answer, do we need PP in the troops. The dimensions and weight of the AM-17 are comparable. Heavier than PP-2000 by 1 kg, SR-2 by 800 grams, but at the same time there are a lot of winning moments. With the logistics of ammunition from a standard machine gun, the dimensions are comparable to the PP. But the question will go to the series? Or, as with all stories, commercials and then silence.
    1. The leader of the Redskins
      The leader of the Redskins 28 August 2020 06: 45 New
      +1
      Theoretically, the replacement can be carried out not at once, as they like in the army, but gradually. This year - one division, the next - another.
      There would be desire and money.
      1. Sergey_G_M
        Sergey_G_M 28 August 2020 06: 53 New
        +3
        There will be no desire to implement in the army. AKSU is not very common in the army and it makes no sense to accept a new machine gun, not much superior to it, in return. Money for training, logistics, spare parts - the military doesn't need it.
        1. polar fox
          polar fox 28 August 2020 07: 49 New
          +4
          Quote: Sergey_G_M
          AKSU in the army is not very common and to accept a new machine gun instead,

          the air defense was full of them ...
          1. Zaurbek
            Zaurbek 30 August 2020 08: 29 New
            0
            Air defense and anti-aircraft missile defense would go well
        2. feokot1982
          feokot1982 28 August 2020 14: 45 New
          +1
          the Strategic Missile Forces are also full
        3. Private-K
          Private-K 29 August 2020 12: 02 New
          0
          Quote: Sergey_G_M
          AKSU is not very common in the army and it makes no sense to accept a new machine gun, not much superior to it, in return. Money for training, logistics, spare parts - the military doesn't need it.

          Submachine guns do not last forever: wear and tear of materials, etc. And the troops, police, special services, private security companies - need small-sized weapons of this class.
          It is pointless to produce new AKSUs because of the known fatal flaws.
          It means that we need to develop, work out and produce new machines.
          The larger the selection of samples of machines, the better. Everyone can take what he needs. A "domestic producer" (tm) to make a profit, to give jobs to citizens.
        4. YOUR
          YOUR 30 August 2020 06: 23 New
          +1
          You are wrong. AKSU is widespread in the Army. All mech-water, gunners are armed with it, flyers have it, not a complete list. Those. sufficient amount. But AK-102 is tipped to replace him, now it is quite possible AM-17.
      2. YOUR
        YOUR 30 August 2020 06: 35 New
        +2
        In the army, replacement is carried out after the accumulation of a certain amount of weapons produced by factories. And it is right. Not as now being replaced with AK-12, almost platoon. New weapons will be trained starting from the division, at a minimum, while reserves of weapons should be created to replace the out of order and repair kits.
    2. psiho117
      psiho117 28 August 2020 19: 07 New
      0
      Quote: YOUR
      Here is the answer, do we need PP in the troops.

      in the army - they are definitely not needed. And this machine gun is not needed there - MA is a police weapon, attempts to replace an army machine gun with it are dull shit.
      1. Private-K
        Private-K 29 August 2020 12: 11 New
        0
        Quote: psiho117
        in the army - they are definitely not needed.

        Did you work as part of the AGS team?
        Have you been running around with the RPG-7?
        Have you worked with a portable radio station, where your task is to "download communications", not shoot, but be able to defend yourself?
        Have you tried to attach a machine gun to the helicopter pilot's NAZ?
        For officers and other specialists whose duties are not directly related to shooting, but who need to be armed with something, and it is banally inconvenient for them to carry a large machine gun and do not need to issue only pistols? Or let repairmen, orderlies, mechanics, tankers, radar operators, etc., etc., wrestle with a large machine gun?
        There are hundreds of positions in the Armed Forces whose requirements for weapons are completely different than those of submachine gunners.

        What kind of disdain for police guns? And, yes, it has to be done quite a lot.
        Let the domestic factories work, make new convenient weapons, give jobs to thousands of your fellow citizens.
        Or is it better how France would lose its own small arms production altogether?
        1. psiho117
          psiho117 29 August 2020 15: 11 New
          0
          Quote: Private-K
          Did you work as part of the AGS team?
          Have you been running around with the RPG-7?
          Have you worked with a portable radio station, where your task is to "download communications", not shoot, but be able to defend yourself?

          Not. I am an ordinary infantry.
          But I'm from Donetsk ... And I saw all these people at arm's length, served with them.
          I talked on various topics with veterans of Afgan and Chechnya.
          NO ONE in his right mind does not take a "bitch" instead of a normal machine.
          For officers and other specialists whose duties are not directly related to shooting, but who need to be armed with something, and it is banally inconvenient for them to carry a large machine gun and do not need to issue only pistols? Or let repairmen, orderlies, mechanics, tankers, radar operators, etc., etc., wrestle with a large machine gun?
          There are hundreds of positions in the Armed Forces whose requirements for weapons are completely different than those of submachine gunners.

          With automatic pistols-PP they are before the first battle. Everyone who smelled gunpowder knows that there is nothing better than a normal, full-size "Kalash".
          Fighter must be ready to counter the threat at any time. His weapon should always be at hand, and it should be a normal weapon, not a short-barreled spit, chambered for a pistol cartridge.
          All attempts to force PP into the army are from the evil one, and end in a lot of blood when it comes to a shootout with an enemy armed with a submachine gun, albeit an inferior one.
          to attach a machine gun to the NAZ helicopter?

          The only place where PP really has a niche is pilots, yes.
          True, and there, the same helicopter pilots tried to have both a machine gun and a couple of grenades.
    3. Zaurbek
      Zaurbek 29 August 2020 17: 07 New
      0
      PP are needed for the police and special forces. In civilian life, you do not need to use a fragrant cartridge.
  3. Catfish
    Catfish 28 August 2020 06: 48 New
    +4
    So it seems like recently there was an article about him, here on VO. Is there nothing more to write about?
    1. The leader of the Redskins
      The leader of the Redskins 28 August 2020 07: 04 New
      +5
      Colleague! Calm down! I have a comment for this post.
      They explained to me that in the beginning there was news, and then extended article! wink
      1. Catfish
        Catfish 28 August 2020 07: 28 New
        +4
        Hi, hi. hi Why should they expand, have they come up with something new?
    2. Zaurbek
      Zaurbek 29 August 2020 17: 08 New
      +1
      On VO, articles are always duplicated. For better assimilation.
  4. Eug
    Eug 28 August 2020 07: 24 New
    +4
    5.45x39 for indoor combat? And what about ricochets? Or have I missed something and this caliber has special low-ricochet cartridges?
    1. Fibrizio
      Fibrizio 28 August 2020 13: 28 New
      0
      And what is bad about ricocheting in an army battle? This is not a police operation where civilians or unarmed people cannot be hit. Here ricochet is even an advantage =)
      1. garri-lin
        garri-lin 28 August 2020 15: 31 New
        +1
        Especially when your bullet hits you.
      2. Zaurbek
        Zaurbek 29 August 2020 17: 08 New
        0
        Army combat with a 200mm barrel?
    2. psiho117
      psiho117 28 August 2020 19: 09 New
      +2
      Quote: Eug
      Does this caliber have special low-ricochet cartridges?

      of course there is. The PRS cartridge has a reduced ricocheting ability.
    3. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 28 August 2020 20: 04 New
      -1
      Quote: Eug
      5.45x39 for indoor combat? And what about ricochets? Or have I missed something and this caliber has special low-ricochet cartridges?

      I agree that the police do not need him, primarily because of the patron!
  5. Mountain shooter
    Mountain shooter 28 August 2020 08: 15 New
    0
    And for me - an interesting machine. A kilo lighter than AKSU. Original design - better ballistics. Sights are better mounted on a rigid base. About the silent option - I did not understand it. Isn't it 9x39 cartridges for him? Subsonic? Otherwise, what kind of "noiselessness" is there? And so - a full-fledged replacement for "Val" ... If they go to the troops, literate responses from "operators" will quickly appear ... So far - only "theory" ...
    1. PSih2097
      PSih2097 28 August 2020 12: 03 New
      +1
      Quote: Mountain Shooter
      A kilo lighter than AKSU

      The manufacturer claims a weight of only 2,5 kg (without cartridges).

      Weight AK - 74U without cartridges is 2,71 kg, AK-105 3kg
      Quote: Mountain Shooter
      And so - a full replacement for "Val" ...

      at the moment, a full replacement for Val is the SR-3M "Whirlwind" with 30 cartridge magazines ...
      1. We are for our
        We are for our 28 August 2020 16: 39 New
        -1
        Weight AK - 74U without cartridges is 2,71 kg, AK-105 3kg
        Let's be honest: the weight of the AKS-74U without cartridges is 3 kg, AK-105 3,2kg.
        The difference in length and weight of 1/6 in comparison with the AKS74U is a significant advantage, besides, the combat characteristics are increased.
        1. psiho117
          psiho117 28 August 2020 19: 14 New
          0
          Quote: We are for our
          Let's be honest: the weight of the AKS-74U without cartridges is 3 kg, the AK-105 is 3,2 kg

          Banned from Google? Don't know how to search for information in our age of computers and gadgets? then you to us!
          1. We are for our
            We are for our 28 August 2020 19: 51 New
            -1
            Troll elsewhere, your humor smells bad. Any comments on the case?
            No, and there is no trial.
            1. psiho117
              psiho117 28 August 2020 21: 19 New
              0
              Quote: We are for our
              Any comments on the case?

              Of course have bully
              In any weapons manual, and even on this Wikipedia of yours, phew!
              it is written:
              Weight of AKS-74U empty / loaded: 2,7kg / 3,0kg.

              Successful mastering of Internet search skills hi
              1. We are for our
                We are for our 28 August 2020 21: 57 New
                -1
                Weight of AKS-74U empty / loaded: 2,7kg / 3,0kg.
                confusion has arisen due to uncertainty with the presence of the store or not.
                Ksenia weighs 3 kg with an empty magazine, without cartridges.
                In this article, the mass of AM-17 is declared as 2,5 kg without cartridges, but it is not indicated anywhere about the absence of a store. Therefore, I count both there and there equipped. If somewhere there is an error in the data, like (but this is not certain) it's not my fault.
  6. Aviator_
    Aviator_ 28 August 2020 08: 16 New
    +6
    The 5,45x39 cartridge is redundant for this class of weapon with such a barrel length of 230 mm. So the flash will be big, and so will the sound. And a long line will overheat the barrel, like the AKS-74U.
    1. garri-lin
      garri-lin 28 August 2020 10: 55 New
      +5
      Few of the commentators understand this.
    2. Fibrizio
      Fibrizio 28 August 2020 13: 22 New
      +4
      therefore, all over the world and use submachine guns if you need to use compact weapons. The same 9x19.
      1. Aviator_
        Aviator_ 28 August 2020 19: 14 New
        +2
        therefore, all over the world and use submachine guns if you need to use compact weapons.

        We also started with this, when we made a PPD chambered for 7,62x25. Then, in the 50s, for some reason they decided that Stechkin's APS could perform the functions of a submachine gun. And in the 70s, they generally created this miracle, the AKS-74U, which is being modernized.
    3. John22
      John22 28 August 2020 13: 52 New
      +4
      I completely agree. I wrote about this in the first message about AM-17.
      1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
        Kote Pan Kokhanka 28 August 2020 20: 12 New
        +1
        Hello to all! I agree with you completely, but to be honest I haven’t thought about the 7,62x25 cartridge. I suppose it will have a weak stopping effect.
        To be honest, I lean towards the 9mm Gyurza cartridge with a length of 21mm
        1. psiho117
          psiho117 28 August 2020 21: 14 New
          +2
          Quote: Kote Pan Kokhanka
          leaning towards 9mm Gyurza cartridge 21mm long

          The modern 9x19mm cartridge is almost no different from the 9x21mm. At the time of development - yes, there was a difference with Parabellum, modern + P + cartridges have long caught up with 9x21mm in power.

          9x19mm 7N30: Bullet weight - 5,8 grams, speed - 420-445 m / s. A bullet pierces a 4 mm plate of steel St.3 at a distance of 60 m
          9x21mm SP-10: Bullet weight - 6,7 grams, speed - 410 m / s. A bullet pierces a 4 mm plate of steel St.3 at a distance of 70 m

          To be honest, I am not a supporter of 9x21mm at all, I do not see any point in the existence of two almost identical pistol cartridges, with almost the same characteristics.
          We are not so rich. Enough and one 9x19mm.
  7. Coconut
    Coconut 28 August 2020 10: 06 New
    0
    Superior AKSu ... time goes by .. wink
    1. PSih2097
      PSih2097 28 August 2020 11: 51 New
      0
      Quote: Coco
      Superior AKSu ... time goes by .. wink

      this is how the AK-102 line was created: 5.56 × 45 mm NATO; AK-104: 7.62 × 39 mm; AK-105: 5.45 × 39 mm, length: 824 mm in total; with folded stock 568 mm (9cm longer than "ksyuha" and shorter than AK-74m by 12cm) ...
  8. Undecim
    Undecim 28 August 2020 11: 38 New
    +5
    As noted in the Kalashnikov group of companies, the AM-17 assault rifle was completely designed using digital technologies.
    Administration of the VO site, conduct an educational program for your authors on the history of CAD. By and large, the use of "digital technologies in design" turns 57 this year, so "flagging" their application is the same as "marking" the fact of creating an article for a website on a PC, and not on "Underwood".
    1. bunta
      bunta 28 August 2020 11: 51 New
      +3
      Such an educational program first of all needs to be carried out for KM workers
  9. bunta
    bunta 28 August 2020 11: 53 New
    +2
    Apparently to please Larry Vickers (he is left-handed), the cocking handle was moved to the left side, unlike the prototype.
  10. Avior
    Avior 28 August 2020 12: 32 New
    +2
    The standard 5,45x39 is too powerful for such a weapon.
    I wonder why it is impossible to produce a weakened 5,45 cartridge, with a reduced weight of gunpowder, so that, if necessary, on a shortened one, you can use both a regular and a weakened one.
    It is possible to select a different type of powder, if necessary.
    The use of the shortened version will noticeably improve - the flame will decrease, the barrel will not overheat quickly.
    For crews that armored vehicles, that aviation weapons are necessary and useful
    1. John22
      John22 28 August 2020 13: 59 New
      +3
      Why invent a bicycle? All over the world, for shooting up to 100 m, PPs are used chambered for Para 9x19 mm. Russia has its own PP Veresk SR-2 chambered for 9x21 mm.
      1. Avior
        Avior 28 August 2020 14: 42 New
        -1
        For arming crews in combat conditions, PP end-to-end, especially if the enemy is in body armor.
        1. garri-lin
          garri-lin 28 August 2020 15: 40 New
          +2
          PP on the Russian cartridge 9 × 21 is quite functional. And for the armor too. Less weight, more ammunition. Ergonomics and accuracy due to lower recoil is higher. A short barrel on an intermediate, albeit low-impulse, cartridge is impossible. AKSU proved it. In the dark, if you shoot, then after the first horn, not only does it go deaf, it also goes blind. You can also overheat the trunk in the summer with the first horn. Better to go for a smaller cartridge.
          1. psiho117
            psiho117 28 August 2020 19: 20 New
            0
            Quote: garri-lin
            A short-barrel on an intermediate, albeit low-impulse, cartridge is impossible. AKSU proved it. In the dark, if you shoot, then after the first horn, not only does it go deaf, it also goes blind.

            It is for this reason that "tactical" PBSs were invented, which are now at the peak of popularity. The Americans won them out, even in the NGSW competition they registered as built-in weapons.
            1. garri-lin
              garri-lin 28 August 2020 19: 36 New
              +2
              Shorten the weapon to then lengthen it for at least some kind of performance. As it is for American.
          2. Avior
            Avior 28 August 2020 20: 29 New
            0
            Have you compared the weight of the cartridge 9 * 21 or at least 9 * 19 and 5,45 * 39? Try to compare. Do you think they are fundamentally different?
            All the same, the breakdown is higher at 5,45, the range is greater.
            And for the military, unlike the police, this is important.
            I agree with the shortcomings that you wrote.
            And now PP under 9 * 19 looks preferable. First of all, if there is a problem of weight and size, both for pilots and armored vehicles. But it would not hurt to add in the characteristics.

            To use 5,45, in my opinion, it is not enough to cut the trunk. You also need a special cartridge, and, perhaps, use the bullet scheme and add a folding butt so that the barrel remains long enough with the compact size of the weapon, and the magazine is shortened during storage for compactness, and the flash suppressor is compact and light, and the weight is reduced as much as possible.
            But a weapon that retained the weight and dimensions of compact PPs with increased power and range would be useful to many.
            1. garri-lin
              garri-lin 28 August 2020 21: 26 New
              +1
              Punchy at 5,45 from the shortened barrel? Controversial. 9x21 may well be better in this regard. Talk about compact weapons. About weapons for self-defense of crews. The pistol went to the troops under this cartridge. So there will be a patron. Equipped horn for 30 rounds under 5,45 and 9 mm, the difference in weight and size will be considerable.
              Now the question you said is bulpal plus a folding stock. How's that?
              1. Avior
                Avior 29 August 2020 10: 33 New
                0
                With a moderately shortened barrel, comfortable holding due to the stock as an option.
                The difference in the weight of the magazines will only be due to the weight of the empty magazine
                As for power, range and penetration, I think that 5,45 will be much higher even with a shortened barrel
                1. garri-lin
                  garri-lin 29 August 2020 10: 48 New
                  0
                  Controversial. 9 mm punch well at 9 19. At 9 21 it will be even better.
                  1. Avior
                    Avior 29 August 2020 11: 02 New
                    +1
                    Well, the answer to this question is to be found in actual test data.
                    Not bad, but much worse than 5,45.
                    And as with the shortened and how much you need to watch the real data.
                    9 * 21 during the Second World War for the PP did not take root, although there were such options even before the war.
                    For an army pistol 9 * 21, it makes no sense at all, except for special forces in some cases.
                    1. garri-lin
                      garri-lin 29 August 2020 23: 15 New
                      0
                      The real data on new cartridges is usually secret. But the mere fact that Gyurza with his short barrel pierced body armor well, speaks of the high potential of the cartridge. A 5,45 from the short barrel is frankly weak.
                      1. Avior
                        Avior 30 August 2020 06: 16 New
                        0
                        Bullet-proof vests are different.
                        Therefore, it is difficult to say something without specific data.
                      2. garri-lin
                        garri-lin 30 August 2020 09: 28 New
                        0
                        In principle, I agree with you.
                2. psiho117
                  psiho117 29 August 2020 15: 24 New
                  0
                  Quote: garri-lin
                  9 mm can be pierced well in 9x19. In 9x21 it will be even better.

                  Equally:
                  9x19mm 7H30: Bullet weight - 5,8 grams, speed - 420-445 m / s. A bullet pierces a 4 mm plate of steel St.3 at a distance of 60 m
                  9x21mm SP-10: Bullet weight - 6,7 grams, speed - 410 m / s. A bullet pierces a 4 mm plate of steel St.3 at a distance of 70 m

                  For comparison - 5,45mm 7N24M provides penetration of armor plate 5 mm thick from 2P steel at a distance of 500 m.
                  With tungsten core 7Н39 - at a distance of 100 meters punches a sheet of grade St.3 24 mm thick.
                  1. garri-lin
                    garri-lin 29 August 2020 23: 16 New
                    0
                    This is when shooting from AKSU? Or from an ordinary machine?
                    1. psiho117
                      psiho117 29 August 2020 23: 33 New
                      0
                      Long barrel. AKSU will be 20-25 percent less, depending on the range
                    2. garri-lin
                      garri-lin 30 August 2020 09: 24 New
                      0
                      And consequently, the speed of the bullet and its penetration decreases.
  • Couchexpert
    Couchexpert 28 August 2020 12: 37 New
    +1
    In general, it seems to be good. Now it would be exactly the same, only to lengthen the barrel by 150-180 mm. A "normal-sized" machine does not hurt either.
  • Fibrizio
    Fibrizio 28 August 2020 13: 18 New
    0
    To develop an idea, you need to make it commercially successful. You give a machine gun with an aper and a lover as a replacement for the bourgeois AR for the population. Let's call it a "hunting carbine" and put it on sale with a single fire mode. If it costs up to 70-80k and stacks with a normal cartridge of 1,5-2 MOA per hundred with such a barrel, people will buy. Well, give normal calibers, 7.62x39, 223, 308, 7.62x54r and 6,5 grendel. Well, different barrel lengths. Short, medium about 320 and long 400+.
  • bandabas
    bandabas 28 August 2020 18: 01 New
    -1
    Until now, all Soviet fittings are being worked out. That's just with space we sit in a puddle. Hello Rogozin D.O. It is interesting how this inept is the representative of the guarantor for international cooperation in the field of space. By the way .... also a tricky post. Receive dengi and not be responsible for anything.
  • Operator
    Operator 28 August 2020 19: 42 New
    -3
    Half a century that has passed since the development of the Dragunov assault rifle (with a U-shaped receiver and a removable handle with a trigger located below) clearly testifies to what kind of trash AK (with a receiver cover) has been for the last 50 years.
    1. psiho117
      psiho117 28 August 2020 21: 24 New
      +1
      Quote: Operator
      what kind of trash is AK

      You are too categorical wassat
      AK and its derivatives are the ideal infantry weapon in a global war: reliable, unpretentious, easy to learn and manufacture.
      It's just that now the world has changed, and the conditions for maintaining the database, too.
      1. Operator
        Operator 28 August 2020 23: 53 New
        +1
        And the MA made of steel, therefore, is an unreliable, whimsical and complex weapon?
  • Izotovp
    Izotovp 28 August 2020 21: 56 New
    0
    The introduction of plastic did not give any gain in weight. This raised the issue of strength. Maybe you should consider light metal alloys?
    1. psiho117
      psiho117 28 August 2020 23: 14 New
      0
      Quote: Izotovp
      Maybe you should consider light metal alloys?

      Plastic is cheaper, lighter (as a rule) and much more pleasant to the hands (especially in frost / extreme heat).
  • Zaurbek
    Zaurbek 29 August 2020 17: 09 New
    0
    In such dimensions, it is better to make PP for 9x21 rounds.
    1. Michael HORNET
      Michael HORNET 7 September 2020 08: 10 New
      +1
      Better yet, for a special cartridge for PDV and pistols - like cartridge 7.5 FK Brno
      Let's say chambered for 7.62x26, with ogival bullet
      It would be a single cartridge for a pistol and PDV (analogue of a submachine gun), with an effective range of 250 m
  • Black Colonel
    Black Colonel 8 September 2020 17: 53 New
    0
    "The AM-17 assault rifle weighs only 2,5 kg" - I ALREADY WANT it!
    I wonder what to do now with the intellectual property of the created AM-17?