Military Review

"The Germans are prisoners at the construction site ..." The fate of the failed conquerors

119

The number of prisoners of war who ended up on the territory of the Soviet Union after the victory of the USSR in the Great Patriotic War is still a matter of dispute among various researchers. Most likely, it is worth starting all the same from the official figures indicated in the statistics of the People's Commissariat of Internal Affairs, which was engaged in their placement, "employment", security and, accordingly, accounting. According to these, about 3 million failed conquerors visited the USSR, about 2 million of whom were actually Germans.


More than a million uninvited guests came to us from other European countries as part of both the Wehrmacht and the SS, and the armies of the states allied to the Third Reich. This whole crowd had to be kept somewhere, fed with something, somehow dressed and shod. And proceeding from the fact that the horde of invaders managed to do something in those territories of our Motherland, where they managed to manage for some time, the use of the "Aryans" in work to restore everything that they managed to destroy and ruin (up to a third of the entire potential of the national economy of the USSR ) was more than logical and correct.

As a matter of fact, the issue of prisoners of war as a problem of a national scale has arisen in the Soviet Union since 1942, before which there were not even ten thousand of them. It acquired particular relevance after the victorious end of the Battle of Stalingrad, as a result of which about 100 thousand enemy soldiers, officers and generals surrendered to the Red Army. There was even a field marshal, as you remember. Now some historians (including, surprisingly, domestic ones) allow themselves to grieve about the “tragic fate” of these first mass “waves” of prisoners of war who, in the cold winter, stomped into the camps that were hastily created for them in a huge crowd, frozen and lice ...

Like, they fed badly, and medical care was to hell, and they were freezing for nothing. Sufferers, in a word. Let me remind you that at this very time the blockade of Leningrad was still going on, where women, old people and children were dying of hunger and cold just by the “mercy” of the comrades-in-arms of these “sufferers” and the possessed Fuhrer. There was not enough food and warm clothes for either the front or the rear, not to mention the medicines and qualified doctors. To immediately put an end to speculations about the "torment" of the German and other invaders in Soviet captivity, I will give two numbers. The mortality rate of our soldiers who found themselves in the clutches of the Nazis was at least 60% (in many camps it was much higher). Only 15% of the captured Germans and their allies did not return home from our land.

Another comparison: in a country that was far from booming after the terrible war years, the food standards in the camps of the specially created Office for Prisoners of War and Internees (UPVI), later transformed into the Main Directorate, amounted to at least 2200 kcal per day, while Soviet soldiers and officers in German captivity were provided with food based on the norm of 900 kcal per day for the most difficult jobs and 600 kcal for "less significant" ones. Feel the difference, as they say. Moreover, the Fritzes in our camps also received a monetary allowance - from 7 to 30 rubles a month, depending on the rank. For conscientious work, they could be rewarded additionally in the amount of 50 to 100 rubles, which happened all the time.

Where was the labor of prisoners used? Yes, almost everywhere. People in the remnants of the Wehrmacht's uniforms devoid of insignia worked hard not only at construction sites. Lumbering, mining - from coal to uranium and gold. In the structure of the GUPVI there was a special department, whose employees were looking for representatives of really valuable and rare specialties in the huge mass of yesterday's warriors, using which to dig ditches, dismantle debris or even erect walls would be an unforgivable waste. Having found, they were assigned to the case according to professional skills and abilities. Such, naturally, were kept in better conditions. Especially valuable cadres had a chance to find themselves in scientific "sharashkas", where life was, by the standards of prisoners, simply heavenly.

It is worth dwelling in more detail on some of the well-established myths regarding German prisoners, which to this day have a fairly wide circulation. Someone undertakes to argue that the Fritzes and their allies rebuilt almost half of the USSR destroyed by them: they say, their contribution to the restoration of the country was "enormous" and almost every third or fourth of the machines standing at that time or at construction sites woods was yesterday's occupier. This is certainly not the case. Yes, according to the same NKVD, for the period from 1943 to the end of 1949, prisoners of war for the more than a million man-days they worked out brought benefits to the national economy of the USSR by about 50 billion rubles. It sounds impressive, but this is if you do not take into account the entire colossal scale of the great construction project that was then boiling on our land. Yes, we did. But certainly not better than the Soviet people.

Another fable: "Evil Stalin" and his comrades-in-arms did not let the Germans "Nakht Vaterland", intending to rot them all in Siberia, and saved the poor people from inevitable death "kind Khrushchev". Again, not true! Firstly, prisoners of war worked and, accordingly, were kept far from only beyond the Urals and in places of the Far North: most of the GUPVI camps, of which there were about three hundred, were located just in the European part of the USSR, where there was the most destruction and work ... Secondly, what does it mean not let go? In this context, Comrade Molotov is often quoted as saying that not a single German will go home until Stalingrad is rebuilt as good as new. You never know who said what ...

In fact, in the summer of 1946, the Council of Ministers of the USSR adopted a resolution on sending disabled and sick prisoners of war to their homeland. After a meeting of the foreign ministers of the victorious countries held in Moscow the following year, it was decided to repatriate all prisoners before 1948. Well, we didn't have time, the process lasted a couple of years longer. So there was a lot of work ... After 1950, only those occupiers remained in the Soviet Union who were convicted of specific military crimes. Here they were sent home by "darling" Khrushchev. In 1955, after a visit to our country by German Chancellor Konrad Adenauer, he was imbued with the ideas of German-Soviet friendship so much that, at his suggestion, the Presidium of the Supreme Soviet released and repatriated almost 15 thousand Nazi thugs: punishers, murderers and rapists. Those who, by and large, deserved not even a camp term, but a noose ...

The fate of prisoners of war from Germany and its allied states was, by and large, more than merciful. Whatever they built and mined there, it still did not compensate for our cities and villages burned down by the invaders, and, most importantly, the ruined lives of Soviet people. And as for hardships and suffering ... So we did not invite them to us!
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Forum "Link of Times. Stalingrad"
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  1. apro
    apro 30 August 2020 06: 00 New
    12
    They love the sufferers ... especially not much. In the country most affected by the invasion, they could not create conditions of detention for the VP better than their own citizens. It would not be fair. Were they deliberately cruel to the VP.? No. Reading the memories of the Germans in captivity. the impression that they were in some kind of pioneer camp.
    1. Ragnar Lodbrok
      Ragnar Lodbrok 30 August 2020 07: 41 New
      28
      Now I agree with you more than ever
      in a country that was far from booming after a terrible war hard time, the food standards in the camps of the specially created Office for Prisoners of War and Internees (UPVI), later transformed into the Main Directorate, amounted to at least 2200 kcal per day, while Soviet soldiers and officers are in German captivity were provided with food based on the norm of 900 kcal per day for the most difficult jobs and 600 kcal for "less significant" ones. Feel the difference, as they say. Moreover, the Fritzes in our camps also received a monetary allowance - from 7 to 30 rubles a month, depending on the rank. For conscientious work, they could be awarded an additional amount of 50 to 100 rubles, which happened all the time.

      In vain, all my relatives did not understand this kindness of soul. I had to treat them the same way they treat our captives. They also paid money to animals in human guise, some kind of phantasmagoria. And this is after Khatyn and millions of our tortured people. beyond my understanding. Is it better to treat us in the West after that? No, they did not.
      1. apro
        apro 30 August 2020 08: 16 New
        11
        Quote: Ragnar lodbrok
        It was necessary to treat them as well as they treat our prisoners.

        Soviet people fought with the enemy on the battlefield. We are not at war with prisoners. War criminals were attracted and the measure of social protection was adequate up to hanging.
        Quote: Ragnar lodbrok
        It was better to treat us in the west after that

        The USSR created the GDR. It is considered the best ally in the western direction. The Reds looked to a completely different future than they are now. And they tried to heal the wounds of the war.
        1. Pushkar
          Pushkar 30 August 2020 17: 08 New
          +6
          Quote: apro
          Quote: Ragnar lodbrok
          It was necessary to treat them as well as they treat our prisoners.

          Soviet people fought with the enemy on the battlefield. We are not at war with prisoners. War criminals were attracted and the measure of social protection was adequate up to hanging.
          Quote: Ragnar lodbrok
          It was better to treat us in the west after that

          The USSR created the GDR. It is considered the best ally in the western direction. The Reds looked to a completely different future than they are now. And they tried to heal the wounds of the war.

          Most of them were war criminals, the blood of at least 10 million Soviet civilians in the hands of these "prisoners". And about the "best ally" - take a look at "Komsomol member, athlete" Frau Merkel.
          1. apro
            apro 30 August 2020 17: 24 New
            0
            Quote: Pushkar
            Most of them were war criminals,

            Do you have an indictment and a court decision?
            Quote: Pushkar
            And about the "best ally" - take a look at "Komsomol member, athlete" Frau Merkel.

            And what does the current German Chancellor have to do with the USSR? The Russians betrayed the GDR, don't forget who gave their consent to the annexation of the GDR.
      2. Olgovich
        Olgovich 30 August 2020 08: 26 New
        12
        Quote: Ragnar lodbrok
        In vain, all my relatives did not understand this kindness of soul.


        The Germans needed several lives to restore at least part of what they destroyed.

        In vain they were released from so early: in the West, please, because there they destroyed much less, but here, let them work until old age.
      3. Mordvin 3
        Mordvin 3 30 August 2020 09: 09 New
        +7
        Quote: Ragnar lodbrok
        In vain, all my relatives did not understand this kindness of soul.

        During the war, a private soldier of the Red Army received 17 rubles.
        Quote: Ragnar lodbrok
        We had to treat them as well as they treat our prisoners.

        I disagree here, otherwise we would be no different from them. But it would be necessary to keep them longer. Until retirement, that way.
        1. Machito
          Machito 31 August 2020 10: 51 New
          +3
          European Union fascists do not remember the good. But the fact that no one returns alive from Russian captivity, they would remember. In vain they felt sorry for them. Now they are scurrying again. It is necessary that they remember: if you go to kill the Russians, you will not return home alive.
        2. Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko
          Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko 31 August 2020 18: 23 New
          +3
          Yes, some could have been for life! Khrushchev then showed a wild mixture of humanism and idiocy ... However, here in the USSR he broke fires worse than firewood in all spheres of life - I will not give a list, everyone already knows that.
          1. Reptiloid
            Reptiloid 2 September 2020 15: 45 New
            +3
            Quote: Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko
            Yes, some could have been for life! Khrushchev then showed a wild mixture of humanism and idiocy ... i.e.
            now, when it is clear that it was during the corn-growing that the cracks began that led, we can say that these were his signals to the west.
            Figuratively speaking, this is not the first time that the bad boy has waved his hands ----here I am, bourgeois, notice me!
      4. PROXOR
        PROXOR 31 August 2020 11: 53 New
        +3
        What difference does it make to us there. The main thing is to remain the people themselves. Revenge is for the weak.
        1. Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko
          Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko 31 August 2020 18: 25 New
          +1
          You are wrong - the punishment should be proportionate to the crime! And many of the prisoners had so much blood on their hands that the loop really cried over them and waited, but then we showed excessive humanism. Alas.
          1. PROXOR
            PROXOR 1 September 2020 10: 47 New
            +1
            So they did it for the benefit of the USSR economy. For food. Plus, the USSR took out a lot of things from Germany. Some machines are still working in various industries.
  2. demo
    demo 30 August 2020 06: 07 New
    12
    Yes, we did. But certainly not better than the Soviet people.
    An interesting incident happened in my life.
    I didn’t think about it. It was so long ago.
    But you see, memory helped, I remember.

    In the year 79, of the last century, a first-year student of the institute, a future builder, had to witness, if I may say so, an analysis of the quality of construction work.
    An emergency happened in the apartment where my parents moved.
    Cold water riser dripped into the tub.
    It must be said that the house in which the apartment was received was built according to a German project (it is no secret that not only machines and factories were exported from Germany, but also documentation for the same residential buildings - 2-3 storeys).
    In order not to bother with the translation of technical documentation, those who were previously associated with construction were selected from the mass of prisoners of war. And not at the level of an ordinary worker, but at an engineering level.
    And the prisoners, familiar from their previous life with these projects, built everything quickly enough.
    Ours had to protect them, feed them and receive ready-made structures.

    So.
    The leak turned out to be at the junction of the coupling of two pipe sections.
    And the sleeve was concreted into a monolithic slab between floors.
    Any connections are, in principle, a danger of leaks.
    They should always be left in open and accessible areas.

    They cannot be monolithic.
    I had to hammer the slab towards each other.
    And we and the neighbors did not quite like this.
    But what to do?

    Even in such a "trifle" the Germans could not pass by and not do the dirty trick.
    With the perspective "for years".
    1. Grandfather
      Grandfather 30 August 2020 06: 16 New
      +2
      In the Urals, in the Sverdlovsk region, Austrians, Hungarians and Romanians were working, they built houses and roads, the houses are still standing, the norms, and of the builders' cemeteries too.
    2. KERMET
      KERMET 30 August 2020 06: 32 New
      15
      A grandmother, a home front worker, said that captured Germans worked in their salt mine in the Urals - they would let them down into the mine, but they didn’t really work there, they were sitting there babbling in their own way, they show their family photographs, in short, the workers from them are not particularly useful in her memories were
      1. BARKAS
        BARKAS 30 August 2020 09: 08 New
        +5
        I studied at a school that was built by German prisoners back in the 1st World War. Already in 42, my great-grandfather was taken prisoner in a concentration camp, somehow he was brought to someone from the camp authorities, he turned out to be the same German prisoner who built this school and even told how our local grandmothers fed them with pies.
      2. Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko
        Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko 31 August 2020 18: 38 New
        +3
        I do not agree with you - the organization of work already depended on our ITR at the mine, construction site, etc. As a former foreman with thirty-five years of experience, I will say this - how you strain and direct the workers, this kind of work will be, and no matter who you work with - even Russians, even Tajiks, even Chinese or Guatemalans. Workers are the same everywhere, and the desire to take time off from work is inherent in everyone, regardless of nation, blood type, eye color and educational level. I remember in Soviet times there were jokes about Moldovans and Chukchi - some of our Slavs were even worse sometimes in terms of stupidity and laziness. And here we are discussing the prisoners - ours are the same and people are about the same. Lazy and bad workers were in ancient Egypt or Greece, but there will be also the XXXX century! Laziness is a property of the inhabitants of our planet.
    3. Reptiloid
      Reptiloid 30 August 2020 06: 45 New
      +8
      Very interesting story, demo... In different districts of the city, we have such 2-3-storey buildings built by the Germans. Some of them were dilapidated, there was talk of demolition. Then they somehow put it in order.
      I believe that the prisoners should have worked in the country that suffered enormous material damage. Not to mention the crimes committed.
      Anyway, be grateful to all of them that they were in captivity. Thus they survived, not buried. They also fed them, treated them, and even today some have survived.
      1. rich
        rich 30 August 2020 07: 23 New
        +8
        Few numbers. According to Soviet sources, there were almost 2.5 million German prisoners of war in the USSR. Germany gives a different figure - 3,5, that is, a million more people. The discrepancies are explained by the poorly organized accounting system in post-war Germany and the inconsistency of accounting between the GDR and the FRG, as well as the fact that some captured Germans, for one reason or another, tried to hide their nationality.
        The affairs of prisoners of war of the German and allied armies were dealt with by a special unit of the NKVD - the Office for Prisoners of War and Internees (UPVI). In 1946, 260 UPVI camps operated on the territory of the USSR and Eastern Europe. If the involvement of a soldier in war crimes was proven, he was either expected to die or to be sent to the GULAG.
        1. rich
          rich 30 August 2020 07: 26 New
          +8
          The daily ration of prisoners of war was 400 grams of bread (after 1943 this rate increased to 600-700 grams), 100 grams of fish, 100 grams of cereals, 500 grams of vegetables and potatoes, 20 grams of sugar, 30 grams of salt. For generals and sick prisoners, the ration was increased. Of course, these are just numbers. In fact, in wartime rations were rarely given in full. The missing products could be replaced with simple bread, rations were often cut, but they deliberately did not starve the prisoners, there was no such practice in the Soviet camps in relation to German prisoners of war.
          The Germans did not work for a crust of bread. The NKVD circular of August 25, 1942 ordered that prisoners be given a monetary allowance (7 rubles to privates, 10 to officers, 15 to colonels, 30 to generals). There was also a prize for shock work - 50 rubles a month. Amazingly, the prisoners could even receive letters and money orders from their homeland, they were given soap and clothes.
          1. rich
            rich 30 August 2020 07: 29 New
            13
            German prisoners of war did not always obey meekly. There were escapes, riots, uprisings among them. From 1943 to 1948, 11 prisoners of war escaped from Soviet camps. 403 thousand 10 people of them were detained. Only 445% of those who fled were not caught.
            One of the uprisings took place in January 1945 in a prisoner of war camp near Minsk. German prisoners were dissatisfied with the poor food, barricaded the barracks, and took the guards hostage. Negotiations with them led nowhere. As a result, the barrack was shelled with artillery and taken by storm. More than 100 prisoners of war were killed "
            1. Reptiloid
              Reptiloid 30 August 2020 07: 32 New
              -2
              I once read about such escape and atrocities. It was.
              1. Reptiloid
                Reptiloid 30 August 2020 08: 53 New
                +6
                Quote: Reptiloid
                I once read about such escape and atrocities. It was.

                It seems that somewhere in Siberia, the Germans fled and brutally killed on their way, as a child I read a Soviet book ...
              2. Alf
                Alf 30 August 2020 21: 58 New
                +5
                Quote: Reptiloid
                atrocities.

                Which side? Judging by what these "liberators from the Jewish Bolshevik yoke" have done with us, then let them be glad that they were taken prisoner at all.
                1. Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko
                  Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko 31 August 2020 18: 53 New
                  +1
                  By the way, the Hollywood film "Saving Private Ryan" is a very deceitful and unreliable source, ranging from an idea to many other things, but there are two or three scenes of the Anglo-Saxons shooting even the Germans who raised their hands.
            2. Terenin
              Terenin 30 August 2020 14: 55 New
              +3
              Quote: Rich
              Few numbers. According to Soviet sources,

              Thank you, Dima, you work well with sources.
          2. The leader of the Redskins
            The leader of the Redskins 30 August 2020 08: 12 New
            +3
            You can live on the products you listed.
            1. rich
              rich 30 August 2020 08: 29 New
              10
              Good morning Nazarius hi
              You can live on the products you listed.

              I recommend that you read the memoirs about life in Soviet captivity by Joseph Hendrix.

              How they ate, what was the salary, what parcels they received

              Most of all I was struck by the fact that, returning to Germany from Soviet captivity in 1949, Hendrix bought money from the money he earned during the captivity in the Donetsk Yuveltorg store, which allowed him to hold out for several months, looking for a job in post-war Germany
              1. The leader of the Redskins
                The leader of the Redskins 30 August 2020 08: 32 New
                +5
                Thanks, but I won't. I think the memory of the former Nazi will not cause compassion in me. He simply noted that he himself sometimes ate a similar set of products on business trips. And nothing, survived and worked physically.
                1. rich
                  rich 30 August 2020 08: 36 New
                  +8
                  And where is compassion for the former Nazi?
                  Just for comparison with the conditions of detention of prisoners of the Red Army in Nazi captivity
                  1. Reptiloid
                    Reptiloid 30 August 2020 12: 50 New
                    +3
                    Quote: Rich
                    And where is compassion for the former Nazi?
                    Just for comparison with the conditions of detention of prisoners of the Red Army in Nazi captivity

                    There have been articles on the site several times about the German captivity. The attitude towards Russian prisoners, terrible inhuman conditions have been described since WW1.
                    1. Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko
                      Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko 31 August 2020 18: 59 New
                      +2
                      Sometimes I think so - the atrocities of the Germans and Austrians in WWI were training before the atrocities of WWII. Our RI army had to be adequate already in 1914-1917. - maybe the Germans would have learned their lessons and thought later in the USSR about their behavior during the WWII.
              2. Insurgent
                Insurgent 30 August 2020 10: 14 New
                +3
                Quote: Rich
                Most of all I was struck by the fact that, returning to Germany from Soviet captivity in 1949, Hendrix bought money from the money he earned during the captivity in the Donetsk Yuveltorg store, which allowed him to hold out for several months, looking for a job in post-war Germany

                I must point out that apparently Stalin's Jeweler ...

                For the rest, I can confirm that certain categories of specialists from prisoners of war, specifically in the Donbass, lived in privileged conditions.
                So, for example, a Hungarian doctor, lived in a free settlement in a separate private house built by German and Hungarian prisoners. He lived, and at the same time worked in his specialty, until his release.
                I am familiar with this story not by hearsay, but from a colleague who, having married, came "to the armies" in the family, which inherited this apartment after the departure of the doctor.

                And as far as I know, this war spared the house.
        2. Reptiloid
          Reptiloid 30 August 2020 12: 43 New
          +9
          tried to hide their nationality ..........

          Recently I read the PSS, volume 4 of VASILY PESKOV. There are 2 essays about the fate of a Soviet guy who was taken to Germany during the Second World War at the age of 4 and remembered almost nothing, for 23 years considered himself Waldemar Schilke, and suddenly found out that he was Viktor Levchenko! The number of letters with offers of help was shocked, as well as the feelings of the mother. With difficulty, it was possible to confirm the relationship and return home to the USSR. This happened in 1965.
          How many Soviet children and adolescents were taken out by the Germans, as well as young people. After all, they were civilians! They became war booty for the Germans. How much they experienced!
          1. mat-vey
            mat-vey 30 August 2020 14: 01 New
            +3
            Quote: Reptiloid
            about the fate of the Soviet guy, who was taken to Germany during the Second World War at the age of 4 and remembered almost nothing, for 23 years considered himself Waldemar Shilke, and suddenly found out that he was Viktor Levchenko! The number of letters with offers of help was shocked, as well as the feelings of the mother. With difficulty it was possible to confirm the relationship and return home to the USSR. This happened in 1965.

            It was not filmed for them - "Remember your name".? with Kasatkina ...
            1. Reptiloid
              Reptiloid 30 August 2020 16: 23 New
              +1
              .... Remember your name .....

              I honestly don't know. I watched a few Soviet films of the USSR. With regard to the content of what I have read, I add the following. The action during the Second World War took place in Ukraine. There was a bombing. The whole village burned down, its name is not, but it is known that the Dnieper was nearby. Everything was on fire. Who was saved? Who died? The boy's mother, Irina Ivanovna, after the war, lived and worked in different cities of Siberia ...
              1. mat-vey
                mat-vey 30 August 2020 17: 04 New
                +5
                From the wiki - "The events in the film unfold during the Great Patriotic War and after its end. The film is based on the real dramatic story of a Soviet prisoner of the Nazi German concentration camp Auschwitz, who was separated from her son there and found him only twenty years later."
                From myself - the movie is hard for the soul .... if tears come - nothing to be ashamed of.
                1. Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko
                  Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko 31 August 2020 19: 04 New
                  +2
                  The film is heavy and scary. If the nervous system is weak or at night - I do not recommend watching! I watched this film for a long time, back in the 1970s, and I'm afraid to review it for the second time ... I don't want to cry.
          2. Mordvin 3
            Mordvin 3 31 August 2020 20: 54 New
            +4
            Quote: Reptiloid
            How many Soviet children and adolescents were taken out by the Germans,

            About 50 thousand children under the age of 3 years were taken out of the USSR, who were later adopted by the inhabitants of Germany under German names.
            The Reichsfuehrer suggested that the "Nordic-looking" babies should either be moved to the Lebensborn orphanages, or transferred to German families for re-education in the "Aryan spirit." Five days later, Himmler sent a letter to the head of Lebensborn, Max Sollmann, with instructions: "re-education" should be used for preschool children - "we do not need those who remember their past."
            https://aif.ru/society/history/biznesmen_iz_frg_ss_pohitili_menya_v_rossii_kogda_ya_byl_rebyonkom?utm_source=aifrelated&utm_medium=click&utm_campaign=aifrelated
            1. Reptiloid
              Reptiloid 1 September 2020 18: 03 New
              +2
              Thanks for the information, I'll take a look in the evening. They were also taken out of the Leningrad Region.
              They also wanted to take away my great-aunt, who was under occupation in the Tula region, in the Aleksinsky district in the village of Abbakumovo. Somehow she managed to escape and returned home a few days later.
      2. The leader of the Redskins
        The leader of the Redskins 30 August 2020 08: 10 New
        0
        I think a colleague with a "leak" has a special case. How can a builder tell my story:
        In Fastov, a town near Kiev where my father is from, after the fighting, only "horns and legs" remained from the city. I saw the photo myself.
        After the war, almost the entire center and houses for railway workers were built by captured Germans under the leadership of a German architect (according to his grandfather). Three house projects. 2/3 storey, one might say "elite" for those times - spacious, not walk-through rooms, a relatively large kitchen.
        2-storey, which are scattered throughout the Union and two-storey, which I often saw near the railway stations. In all, if I am not mistaken, there are wooden flights of stairs.
        So my grandfather recalled that then the Fastovites only learned that they could not run into the yard when needed. Although in the "railway" houses there was a bathroom in the apartment, and the toilet was a row of booths on the street! For each apartment under its own number))) The first gas water heaters appeared in the same houses.
        Also, do not demolish the "oldies". And before, they say, they were also considered "fashionable".
        1. Mordvin 3
          Mordvin 3 30 August 2020 09: 31 New
          +6
          Quote: Leader of the Redskins
          And before, they say, they were also considered "fashionable".

          My sister lives in a five-story building that the Germans built. Double room 64 meters, kitchen 12 squares, separate rooms, almost a copy of the house, where the German commandant's office with the Gestapo was located during the occupation.
          1. Alf
            Alf 30 August 2020 22: 03 New
            +3
            Quote: mordvin xnumx
            My sister lives in a five-story building that the Germans built.

            Samara, st. Victory, the uncle lives in a 4-storey building built in 1942, built by the Germans. Ceilings Three Meters, Separate Rooms, Kitchen 11 Meters. The roof leaked for the first time in 2005 (!), And the inner door in the entrance has been standing since 42, no problem.
        2. ee2100
          ee2100 30 August 2020 11: 47 New
          +4
          In St. Petersburg, near Savushkina str., Old buildings - the work of prisoners of war. The layout and infrastructure are still of good quality.
          1. Reptiloid
            Reptiloid 30 August 2020 12: 58 New
            +2
            Quote: ee2100
            In St. Petersburg, near Savushkina str., Old buildings - the work of prisoners of war. The layout and infrastructure are still of good quality.

            There are many places, in the same place Dibunovskaya street, also on Torez, Udelnaya metro station, Akademicheskaya metro station ... And in Kirovsky, Krasnoselsky districts, in Krasnogvardeisky ...... These houses are different, there are simpler, there are more complicated ones, I even saw with columns there is a separate entrance for each apartment ...... In the Leningrad region too ...... With new repair technologies ----- they will stand still.
            1. ee2100
              ee2100 30 August 2020 13: 10 New
              +3
              There are a lot of them, but Savushkina is very compact and clear, although they say that used building materials were also used in the construction of these houses, after the development of destroyed houses.
              The town of Sillamäe and the enrichment plant were built entirely by prisoners of war.
              1. Reptiloid
                Reptiloid 31 August 2020 16: 35 New
                +1
                I remembered. Probably, some of the best ones have been built near the Lomonosovskaya metro station, and Elizarovskaya also has ... hi
                1. ee2100
                  ee2100 31 August 2020 17: 10 New
                  +1
                  Are these houses in the direction of Ivanovskaya?
                  1. Reptiloid
                    Reptiloid 31 August 2020 18: 41 New
                    +1
                    Quote: ee2100
                    Are these houses in the direction of Ivanovskaya?

                    I have been there a lot, but about 5 years ago, the last time, at work .... I liked the good parameters on the Weavers, but the state was different. An amazing thing --- looked at the search engine, it turns out, at home on the Weavers --- 20-30 years! Who built them? It turns out to be a very interesting topic. Although I always mentioned before that mass development began after the revolution, and not by Khrushchev ... ... There were many experiments. But the imperfection of the materials. There was nothing, nothing was missing. Much has collapsed.
                  2. Reptiloid
                    Reptiloid 2 September 2020 15: 59 New
                    +1
                    Quote: ee2100
                    Are these houses in the direction of Ivanovskaya?

                    laughing I continue to look at those places on the search engine. I found two-storey houses built after the Second World War on the Weavers. Perhaps this is what German prisoners built ... There are dilapidated and ready to be demolished. In general, we ought to go there, look from a different angle.
                    1. ee2100
                      ee2100 2 September 2020 16: 20 New
                      +1
                      If you are so interested in buildings, you are probably a builder? When I studied in Leningrad, I always like the area of ​​Savushkina street. Everything is in the same style and not high-rise. It somehow stands out from the general architecture and only in the 80s did I learn that these houses were built by prisoners.
                      I live in Tallinn myself. In Tallinn, at the beginning of the Leningrad, now Petersburg, highway, the prisoners built a concrete road to the village of Maardu, about 14 km. And the condition was for them - how to build they can go home. They say they worked for 24 hours.
                      In general, the topic of prisoners of war in the USSR after the Second World War is insufficiently covered, and due to its politicization, it is practically taboo.
                      1. Reptiloid
                        Reptiloid 2 September 2020 17: 38 New
                        +1
                        No, I'm not a builder. hi Work according to the documents. But before he lived on a street parallel to Savushkina Street, on Shkolnaya. Just in front of these 2-storey buildings, in a Stalinist building. Then he moved to the same area in new buildings, further ... The city is growing, where there was an area - a city line already.
                      2. ee2100
                        ee2100 2 September 2020 17: 45 New
                        +1
                        I know. The son lives in St. Petersburg. And until recently he himself was connected by work with Peter
      3. demo
        demo 30 August 2020 16: 08 New
        +3
        Have you gotten any drawbacks from those who believe that all the amenities in separate apartments for all citizens of the USSR appeared before the Second World War?
        Unfortunately man, his personal well-being has never been put at the forefront in our country.
        The public has always been above the individual.
        This also applies to toilets.

        I wanted to continue about the prisoners of war.
        If my memory serves me, then not far from the city of Krasnodar was the village of Loris.
        This village until the moment the Germans were sent home to Germany was the place of their accommodation.
        There is also another village - Najdorf.
        This one is a little further.
        Somehow I had to go there and there.
        Communicated with local "gans".
        Those. with the children of those Germans, the trough did not want to go home.
        He asked - why?
        The answer was almost the same.
        Where to go? There, even the foundations of our village (settlement, town) are gone.
        Not a single one is alive.
        The whole family was killed during the advance of the Red Army.
        There was hell.
        Why should I be there?

        We lived here very well.
        Men are teetotalers. Wealthy. There are many furriers.
        And bricklayers are just virtuosos.
        They laid out such hexagonal columns!
        But when Helmut Kohl called the Germans home, many decided to leave.
        Several Germans, with whom he spoke for a long time after a trip to the FRG, returned to Russia.
        Not our everything is there, they said.
        The Russian spirit is missing.
        And so it happened that the Germans became Russians.
        On the territory of the Krasnodar Territory there is another settlement - Adler.
        Here it was laid by the Germans even before the revolution of 17.
        There was a brewery in Novorossiysk before the fight against alcoholism and drunkenness began.
        Equipment from 1893 was brought from Bavaria.
        The beer was beyond criticism!

        So there are many good and bad things that connect us with Germany.
        1. The leader of the Redskins
          The leader of the Redskins 30 August 2020 16: 18 New
          +4
          A gang stuck to me cons, considering their opinion as the last resort. For them, objectivity is like a tub of cold water by the collar. So, they huddled together and give themselves a plus, and they sculpt me and some other forum participants even if I wish them individually good morning.
        2. The leader of the Redskins
          The leader of the Redskins 30 August 2020 16: 24 New
          +2
          Yes, by the way, I remembered ... A couple of years ago we took part in the commissioning of a residential building. So in one bathroom unit noticed that the tee in the fan pipe is installed "in the wall"! Moreover, it will not be possible to deploy - it was embedded in a niche! Not otherwise, the workers from the eastern republics also decided to play a trick!)) laughing
      4. Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko
        Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko 31 August 2020 19: 18 New
        +2
        In my hometown of Vyksa (formerly Gorkovskaya, and now Nizhny Novgorod region, Russia), on the corner of Krasnykh Zor Street, the Germans built in 1944 a brick five-story building with a tall plinth, partially faced with granite slabs. The quality was quite high. Apartments, of course, were given not to the common people, but to engineers from a metallurgical plant or a DRO plant. So, this house did not need major repairs until the 1990s - again, the quality was higher than the then, all-Union. But it was not only the Germans who built it - there were ours too, plus the superintendents, the foremen were also ours, the Germans would not have been entrusted to lead. In Gorky, the prisoners also built a lot - they restored what was destroyed by their aviation during the war years. But I did not live in Gorky and I will not say anything specifically.
    4. lis-ik
      lis-ik 30 August 2020 15: 17 New
      +3
      Quote: Reptiloid
      A very interesting story, demo. In different districts of the city, we have such 2-3-storey buildings built by the Germans. Some of them were dilapidated, there was talk of demolition. Then they somehow put it in order.

      In Moscow, near the Akademicheskaya metro station, if you go from the center along Profsoyuznaya, then on the right side there are 3-storey German-built mansions, formerly residential, and now offices and shops. Further into the district, there are more capital structures, five to six floors high, this is already along Vavilov Street (in the depths), you still cannot call them residential and dilapidated.
      1. Reptiloid
        Reptiloid 30 August 2020 22: 24 New
        +1
        That's how it turns out! recourse lol inevitably I recall the film "Irony of Fate"
        I was born in Leningrad, now I live in St. Petersburg.
        Quote: lis-ik
        .........., near the metro station "Akademicheskaya", if you go from the center ...... there are 3 floors left. .... Further inland, ..... Vavilov ... b.
        Well, very suitable phrases for our city. And the Akademicheskaya metro station, and these two-storey houses, really ... but Vavilov street is not far away, there, however, are already blocky. The Germans built only 2-2 floors in our country. At work, I visited some. They were built before full gasification, it turns out, or remotely? Since there is often a kitchen of 3 parts, firewood was stacked in one wood stove. And in the other part they were already preparing. In some I saw wooden stairs.
  3. Ingvar 72
    Ingvar 72 30 August 2020 12: 20 New
    +5
    Quote: demo
    The leak turned out to be at the junction of the coupling of two pipe sections.

    These are not only German jambs, trust the plumbing! laughing I saw exactly the same case in the "Leningrad" planning. 30 cm overlap, but we hammered from above, since the tool was. And hammering from the bottom up - oh, how ungrateful occupation, when everything hollowed out into the face is poured.
    1. Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko
      Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko 31 August 2020 19: 29 New
      0
      I don’t believe - I myself have worked for more than thirty years as a foreman in general construction work: no foreman or foreman would allow this. After all, the plumbers themselves do not concretize the place where the pipes pass through the floor slab - they leave it to us, the general contractor, therefore: you will check a hundred times and you will write acts for hidden work, signing with the technical supervision before concreting this place, and there are always a lot of pipe scraps at the facility and assemble the riser , without making a joint inside the floor, is a trifling matter. Sorry, but if the foreman yawns like that, then you can boldly write a statement the next morning and leave! ... The customer, if he catches it, then in Soviet times he would fill his face, and now under capitalism, he will be rolled into concrete. And rightly so - you have to try to build well, but it will turn out badly ...
      1. Ingvar 72
        Ingvar 72 1 September 2020 07: 17 New
        0
        Quote: Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko
        I do not believe -

        The fact that you do not believe will not change the fact of what I have seen. Work experience as a plumber 10 years, 5 of them in the operation of the housing stock. hi
        1. Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko
          Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko 1 September 2020 15: 05 New
          0
          We have persuaded, okay, but I will agree on the condition that the housing stock was old and you didn’t take part, but at the new facilities, I hope this was not the case?
          1. Ingvar 72
            Ingvar 72 1 September 2020 15: 41 New
            +2
            House of the late 70s. We changed the XB riser. And at new facilities now the same oddity, SNiPs are violated at every step. Tushnye pipes instead of GOST.
  4. Old
    Old Michael 30 August 2020 14: 46 New
    +3
    Demo: Even in such a "trifle" the Germans could not pass by and not do the dirty trick.
    With the perspective "for years".

    A relative in the late 40s was the head of the construction of several objects in the Far East and Kazakhstan.
    He said that at several construction sites, through the People's Commissariat, they had to prove the inexpediency of using German prisoners of war. And it was not even a matter of deliberate sabotage. According to him, "the hands are out of f ..., but there were no brains with a conscience even after birth."
    At the same time, he noted the work of the Japanese. A pronounced hierarchy was preserved among Japanese prisoners of war, and the elders instructed subordinates in the spirit that Japan had a certain duty to the Russians, and to give it back was a matter of honor. They worked diligently, although anger and a thirst for revenge periodically manifested itself in the little things.
    Another interesting point. Polish specialists came to one of the construction sites to learn from their experience. After this visit at a relative's, at any mention of the Poles, the expression on his face became so squeamish that it seemed as if he would now run to wash off something disgusting. He did not give the details to anyone close to him.
    1. phair
      phair 4 September 2020 14: 42 New
      +2
      In a cordon, without stopping,
      Axes knock all day.
      And our work is different:
      We light bonfires for the soldiers.

      The cold is like the North Pole.
      The frost is already bursting through the forests.
      My partner is a captive Japanese,
      Officer Kumiyama-san.

      They say war criminal
      (Himself in Russian - not in the tooth with a foot!).
      Someone even wanted to knock
      On loading it ill ...

      We bypass all posts in a day ...
      We, of course, are not friends with him.
      But you have to get along with your partner.
      We can't swear in any way.

      Because it's still work.
      Together we saw one log ...
      We really want to light a cigarette,
      But the makhorochka is gone for a long time.

      You can't get tobacco in BUR.
      Pull at least once or twice.
      And the escort stands and smokes,
      Hanging the machine on the chest.

      The soldier looks sideways at the Japanese,
      Observes from under the arm.
      And, you see, she is not afraid of me,
      We are fellow countrymen by chance.

      Yes, and I am young.
      Me, salage,
      And you won't give seventeen years ...
      - Why did you end up in the camp?
      Is it for espionage?

      I don’t know what to say to the soldier.
      Nobody will understand anyway.
      And so I answer
      Very short:
      - Never...

      - Do not gaps, they do not sit down for anything!
      Apparently, in something to blame ...-
      And the soldier mechanically strokes
      Mitten yellow butt.

      And then,
      So that the company commander does not see
      Takes out half a pack of terry
      And puts it on a tree stump in a snowdrift:
      - Here, take it, man!
      Light up!

      I'm ready to stretch out my palms.
      I, of course, am glad to makhorka.
      But the stump is in the restricted area.
      Will the soldier kill me?

      And such a thing happens.
      Can play a joke with you.
      He will say after: "I ran, you bastard!"
      And get home leave.

      How will it blow from the machine -
      And no one will find the ends ...
      And I look into the eyes of a soldier.
      No, perhaps that will not kill.

      Three steps to the stump.
      Three - back.
      I do not take my eyes off the soldier.
      And with a makhorka, in his hand gripped,
      Quietly I leave the clearing.

      It was as if a lump had fallen from my heart.
      I wash off a cold sweat
      I say to the soldier: "Thank you!"
      Kumiyama - bows down.

      And we leave in a coniferous forest,
      Where the snow turns white on the trunks.
      And the makhorka that the escort gave
      Divide carefully in half.
      Zhigulin Anatoly.
      1. Old
        Old Michael 4 September 2020 15: 17 New
        0
        Written with feeling. Although for the first time I hear that our convicts serve time together with prisoners of war or work together.
        And the Japanese were generally kept separate from other prisoners of war. Separate camps, separate jobs. (at least - it was so in Kazakhstan)
  5. sergey32
    sergey32 30 August 2020 15: 00 New
    +3
    Several years ago, in a former military unit, we converted a canteen for food production. The building was built by prisoners of war in 53. We decided to extend the distribution window down and make an opening for the passage. At first, the masonry gave in easily, then from a level of about 70 cm from the floor, the seams came from some kind of black mortar. You pound with a puncher as if on iron. I had to paint each brick first, and then split the mortar without brick with a sledgehammer. And when we got to the foundation of rubble stone, we realized that there was only one thing to blow up. All the same, the Fritzes knew how to make strong pillboxes and bunkers.
    1. Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko
      Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko 31 August 2020 19: 31 New
      +1
      Look at the pillboxes of the Stalin Line and the Molotov Line - they are still standing! So our quality was super too !!!
  6. Alf
    Alf 30 August 2020 21: 55 New
    +1
    Quote: demo
    Even in such a "trifle" the Germans could not pass by and not do the dirty trick.

    Whom to do the dirty trick? To yourself?
    Quote: demo
    It must be said that the house in which the apartment was received was built according to a German project (it is no secret that not only machines and factories were exported from Germany, but also documentation for the same residential buildings - 2-3 storeys).

    This is a German project. It turns out that when designing in Germany for themselves, loved ones, at home, the Germans were playing dirty tricks on themselves?
    1. demo
      demo 31 August 2020 06: 26 New
      +3
      You didn't read my comment too carefully.
      In the project, most likely, the connection was provided in an accessible place for maintenance.
      And certainly not in the concrete body of the floor.
      The knowledge and experience of those who were involved in monitoring compliance with the work performed with technical documentation did not have enough.
      This is where the desire of those who did it arose to make "adjustments".
      1. Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko
        Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko 31 August 2020 19: 31 New
        0
        Maybe so...
  7. not main
    not main 30 August 2020 23: 54 New
    0
    Quote: demo
    demo (Van) Today, 06: 07

    And here is another example for you: My parents got an apartment in 73, I just joined the pioneers, but I was always "tormented" by the question, why did the builders put all the pipes through the ceilings, through the couplings? Those. the pipe 15-20mm through the ceiling goes inside the pipe for 32-40mm. When I understood, I was simply amazed at such an original and cheap solution to the problem! Cherry on the cake! This house was built by our construction battalion!
    1. Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko
      Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko 1 September 2020 15: 20 New
      0
      By the way, this was a typical (Gosstroyevsky) solution of the pipe passage location. Back in the Soviet Union, we were given this drawing in an album of drawings of the VK section (plumbing - water supply and sewerage). But, I will note from myself, and this often did not solve the problem - the plumbers, having passed this coupling with a pipe, were lazy then to shove a cable around the pipe and then cover it with a solution ... So there was laziness even with a good solution to this place. Alas.
  • Comrade
    Comrade 30 August 2020 06: 15 New
    +7
    Now some historians (including, surprisingly, domestic ones) allow themselves to grieve about the “tragic fate” of these first mass “waves” of prisoners of war who, in the cold winter, stomped into the camps hastily created for them in a huge crowd, frozen and lice ...
    Only 15% of the captured Germans and their allies did not return home from our land.

    Fate pushed me into one of the captured allies of the Germans who did not return home.
    In the mid-1980s, my friend and I accidentally met a cheerful old man who, having started talking, said that he was French, his name was Pierre, he himself was from Nice, and had been living in our city (one of the regional centers of the Ukrainian SSR) since 1943.
    I didn't believe it, then he switched to confident French. Then, already in Russian, he explained that he had fought on the side of the Germans and was taken prisoner. While in captivity, he met a local busty girl and began to live with her. Then I didn't want to go back, he says, I have both children and grandchildren, where will I go?
    He worked in a regional hospital as a handyman, and looked like a happy and cheerful old man.
    The second time I had a chance to meet with another former prisoner of war was in Germany. Heinz Ratzlinger - that was his name - remembered a little Russian, spoke with great sympathy about the Russian people, but, he stressed more than once, you have very strict bosses. He spent 10 years in captivity, after which he returned home to Bavaria. At parting he gave five marks, but on the condition that my friend and I buy food with them, not beer or cigarettes. The union did not scold or curse.
    1. Sergey M. Karasev
      Sergey M. Karasev 30 August 2020 06: 28 New
      +4
      At parting he gave five marks, but on the condition that my friend and I buy food with them, not beer or cigarettes.

      Threw a handout to the poor, or what? Eck he mocked you, the descendants of the winners ... Did you really have such a hard lack of money at that time?
      1. Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko
        Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko 1 September 2020 15: 22 New
        +3
        I personally would not take whatever state of my wallet is ...
        1. Sergey M. Karasev
          Sergey M. Karasev 1 September 2020 17: 54 New
          +2
          So do I. Otherwise I would have ceased to respect myself.
    2. Aviator_
      Aviator_ 30 August 2020 14: 59 New
      +5
      In 2018, when I was at the ISFV-18 conference in Zurich, the secretary in the organizing committee was Anna Kubik, about 45, fluent in Russian. At first I thought I was Czech, but I turned out to be a West German. Her grandfather, being captured in Poland, then rebuilt Rostov-on-Don for 5 years, where he learned a lot of construction terms and mastered Russian. He convinced his granddaughter to learn Russian, and he did not call her otherwise than "Annushka" (not Anchen). Not otherwise, my grandfather in Rostov also had love.
  • Talgarets
    Talgarets 30 August 2020 06: 35 New
    +2
    A bit off topic. Just inspired by the article. Now on the Internet, among fans of alternatives, a video of a living mammoth in Siberia is walking. Allegedly filmed by the NSDLP correspondent Holger Hildebrand taken prisoner at Stalingrad. Some believe this ...
    1. Alecsandr
      Alecsandr 30 August 2020 13: 52 New
      +1
      I also believed in a mammoth when I looked at the footage
  • parusnik
    parusnik 30 August 2020 07: 27 New
    +5
    They did not work on the collective farm fields and they did not restore the villages they burned ..
  • Alecsandr
    Alecsandr 30 August 2020 08: 03 New
    +8
    I read a lot of the memoirs of the Germans, how they fought, how they retreated and sat in captivity. I wanted to know everything, so to speak, first-hand. In captivity, of course, there was no pioneer camp, but the Soviet people did not live well either. Most of the prisoners respectfully remember the ordinary people with whom they had to meet in captivity. And our grandfathers fought, God forbid! This is the Germans themselves note. Russia is not France!
    1. Reptiloid
      Reptiloid 30 August 2020 23: 41 New
      0
      In connection with the 75th anniversary of the Victory, RT GERMANY organized a project - meetings, stories of German prisoners who returned from captivity and work from the USSR, living in our time.
      Many speak well of the Russian people.
      For example, Wolfgang Morel spoke very well about the Russian doctors who treated the Germans.
  • Aviator_
    Aviator_ 30 August 2020 08: 04 New
    +5
    Well, in Orenburg, the captured Japanese were noted, there is even a small monument to the dead.
  • nikvic46
    nikvic46 30 August 2020 08: 22 New
    +7
    Prisoners of war worked at the Maslennikov plant. Old workers noted their discipline and high-quality work. A participant in the battles in the Far East told me how the prisoners were fed: “We would have been fed that way.” And all the time, there are many traces of their construction.
    1. sherenberg
      sherenberg 30 August 2020 09: 09 New
      0
      "We would have been fed that way." - in 87, being in the GDR, in a personal conversation with a former prisoner of war, a Hitler Youth fighter who worked on construction sites in the USSR after the war, somewhat opposite information was announced
  • ee2100
    ee2100 30 August 2020 09: 28 New
    0
    The article is about nothing. The topic is really important and, unfortunately, there is little coverage, but slogans prevail in the article, and not historical facts and documents.
    The author calls in the article the captured enemy "Fritzes", and why not "Hans". Everything is very in the spirit of propaganda, and this sub-site, as I thought, is historical. This is the same as calling a Soviet soldier "Ivan" in an article by a Western historian.
  • bbss
    bbss 30 August 2020 09: 46 New
    +1
    In Moscow, judging by the number of residential buildings built, there were a lot of camps ...
  • Engineer
    Engineer 30 August 2020 09: 49 New
    +3
    Judging by the stories of local Adler residents, the power plant in Sochi on the Mzymta River was built by German prisoners. Works. She also pulled out the Olympics - the new Gazprom plant was late with the commissioning.
  • bubalik
    bubalik 30 August 2020 10: 48 New
    +2
    The mortality rate of our soldiers who found themselves in the clutches of the Nazis was at least 60% (in many camps it was much higher). Only 15% of the captured Germans and their allies did not return home from our land.
    ,,, statistics improved at the end of the war, due to the large number of prisoners and the end of the war. But who got at the beginning of the war ,,,
    ,,, the death rate of prisoners of war in the USSR from June 22, 1941 to 1943 was 67%.
    1. Reptiloid
      Reptiloid 30 August 2020 23: 23 New
      -1
      .... mortality ... of prisoners of war .... 67% .....
      So what? It’s not a pity for the Germans. Absolutely. We didn’t expect it, we couldn’t even imagine, they are something.
      The Leningrad region was occupied by the Germans. During the Second World War, its population decreased by 62%. Killed, tortured by the Germans, sent to Germany. There was a famine for the inhabitants. Including the writer Alexander Belyaev died of hunger
    2. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 31 August 2020 12: 27 New
      +3
      Quote: bubalik
      ,,, statistics improved at the end of the war, due to the large number of prisoners and the end of the war. But who got at the beginning of the war ,,,
      ,,, the death rate of prisoners of war in the USSR from June 22, 1941 to 1943 was 67%.

      The largest mortality rate was for the Stalingrad prisoners. But there it was not so much about the conditions of detention, but about the "initial state" of the prisoners. Almost all of them were taken prisoner after the surrender - after sitting in a cauldron on cut rations. And dystrophy with typhus did their dirty work. Plus, our intelligence, as you know, made a mistake with the number of the German group to the smaller side, so that no one counted on such a number of prisoners of war (in winter, in a bare steppe and a destroyed city).
      1. Liam
        Liam 31 August 2020 12: 37 New
        -3
        Quote: Alexey RA
        no one expected such a number of prisoners of war (in winter, in the bare steppe and in the ruined city).

        And the Germans in the summer of 41 counted and were ready for a stream of prisoners comparable in number to their own army?
        1. Alexey RA
          Alexey RA 31 August 2020 12: 48 New
          +2
          Quote: Liam
          And the Germans in the summer of 41 counted and were ready for a stream of prisoners comparable in number to their own army?

          They should have calculated at least based on the number of troops in the border districts + reserves of the internal districts. Because according to the plan, most of their l / s should have been captured precisely - after a quick dissection, encirclement and excavation.
          1. Liam
            Liam 31 August 2020 12: 55 New
            -3
            And the Soviet troops were not supposed to count on the capture of the encircled at Stalingrad? The USSR could not cope with the influx of 90.000 prisoners. And Germany, with an influx of 3 million. Slightly different values, by the way. What% of the surviving Soviet prisoners of war in the subsequent years of the war was?
            1. Alexey RA
              Alexey RA 31 August 2020 12: 58 New
              +3
              Quote: Liam
              And the Soviet troops were not supposed to count on the capture of the encircled at Stalingrad? The USSR could not cope with the influx of 90.000 prisoners.

              Must. The problem is that the number of prisoners exceeded the number of the group known at the beginning of the operation.
              1. Liam
                Liam 31 August 2020 13: 06 New
                -2
                When only 100.000 out of 5.000 survive, the problem is not only this. As the Germans did not have any economic and logistical options to cope with the simultaneous influx of millions of prisoners, in the same way the USSR could not cope with 100.000. Both sides initially did not intend to do this.
      2. Liam
        Liam 31 August 2020 12: 44 New
        0
        Quote: Alexey RA
        our intelligence, as you know, was mistaken with the number of the German group

        Oh, this intelligence. 43 years. Tightly surrounded by a German group for 2 months already ... and so screw up (at times) with an estimate of the number
        1. Alexey RA
          Alexey RA 31 August 2020 12: 56 New
          +3
          Quote: Liam
          Oh, this intelligence. 43 years. Tightly surrounded by a German group for 2 months already ... and so screw up (at times) with an estimate of the number

          Voronov testifies that in the second half of December the command of the Don Front underestimated the forces of the encircled. He writes that Rokossovsky "boldly and confidently named the figure of 86, which makes up five infantry divisions, two motorized divisions, three tank divisions and some three combat detachments." The Soviet command received completely reliable information about the size of the 6th Army only after the elimination of the "boiler".
          © Isaev
          1. Liam
            Liam 31 August 2020 13: 03 New
            0
            I know. I just remembered all the discussions about intelligence in the pre-war period. They were not able to reconnoitre anything even at 43 meters in such "greenhouse" conditions.
        2. Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko
          Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko 1 September 2020 15: 28 New
          0
          And with the date of the attack on June 22, how did ours screw up ... But besides various types of reconnaissance, there were also "tips" from the outside. Although, perhaps, these "tips" and confused our Leader?!? ...
      3. Reptiloid
        Reptiloid 31 August 2020 16: 29 New
        +3
        ..... reduced rations ......
        There was once an article here that in the German army only Germans were fed once a day; Hungarians, Romanians and others were not fed for several days. The Germans did not leave them the opportunity to survive.
        1. Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko
          Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko 1 September 2020 15: 30 New
          +2
          Well, how they fought - so the Germans fed them! Everything is correct.
          1. Reptiloid
            Reptiloid 1 September 2020 18: 50 New
            +3
            Quote: Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko
            Well, how they fought - so the Germans fed them! Everything is correct.
            first of all, they fed their own, yes and then once a day, and those are just consumables.
          2. Mordvin 3
            Mordvin 3 1 September 2020 19: 49 New
            +4
            Quote: Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko
            Well, how they fought - so the Germans fed them! Everything is correct.

            My grandfather, being in captivity, pulled out a bag of bread from a burning plane. Romanian soldiers also wanted to get on the plane, get some bread, their German guard would not let them in: "Here is Rus master." Then the Romanians asked for bread from their grandfather.
  • Train
    Train 30 August 2020 12: 00 New
    +4
    They built excellently. One road in Petrozavodsk with paving stones was worth what it cost. And the houses are good.
  • alexey alexeyev_2
    alexey alexeyev_2 30 August 2020 12: 30 New
    +7
    Here is a book I came across .. Memoirs of a German prisoner of war about the years spent in captivity. Guess what it was called .. You will never guess Willie Birkemeier Oasis of humanity. No more, no less That would be to poke this book to all these crying about the unfortunate prisoners. To this whole liberal gang. Kole from the Urengoy. Although what to take from this brat
    1. Corsair71 (Anatoly)
      Corsair71 (Anatoly) 7 September 2020 13: 25 New
      0
      Thanks, I read it.
  • Vladimir1155
    Vladimir1155 30 August 2020 13: 29 New
    +1
    Alexander Kharaluzhny wrote everything correctly
  • Operator
    Operator 30 August 2020 13: 43 New
    +7
    The Soviet attitude towards German prisoners of war should be divided into three periods
    - until 1945, from 1945 to 1950 (mass deportation of prisoners), from 1950 to 1955 (expulsion of war criminals).

    In wartime, the level of food and medical care for prisoners of war was low, but corresponded to the level for the Soviet civilian population. After the war, the level went up for everyone. War criminals were held according to prison standards.

    The mass death of German prisoners of war was noted only in Stalingrad - due to extreme weakening by hunger and cold and a shortage of vehicles for transporting prisoners from the encirclement area in conditions of frontal destruction. But the Germans themselves are to blame - for what they fought (total destruction of the city and suburbs), they ran into it (degeneration and frostbite).
  • BAI
    BAI 30 August 2020 14: 31 New
    +2
    The food for German prisoners in the camps was comparable to or better than the food for employees, dependents, and children in Leningrad in 1942-43.
  • MA3UTA
    MA3UTA 31 August 2020 01: 19 New
    +3
    By the end and after the Second World War, more than 16 prisoners of war of the defeated side (Germans, Hungarians, Romanians, others) were working on the territory of the MSSR.
    Three camps were organized for them in the republic:
    No. 103 in Balti;
    No. 104 in Bender;
    No. 198 in Chisinau.


    The building of the Chisinau Railway Station, rebuilt by prisoners.
    Railway station.


    The Chisinau camp was the largest (it could contain up to 10 prisoners of war).
    The camp management was located at Muncheshtskaya, 6.
    The prisoners of war themselves were distributed throughout Chisinau according to the work they performed.
    In each of the departments of the POW camp, orders were drawn up for the work carried out by the prisoners.
    the prisoners were paid a monetary allowance - small amounts.

    Camp locations:
    1) Sadovaya, 21 - about 2 prisoners.
    2) Kievskaya, 78 - about 500 prisoners.
    3) Kharlampievskaya, 115 - about 1000 prisoners.
    4) Irinopolskaya, 14 - about 500 prisoners - for the Commissariat of Industry.
    5) Military town number 17 (address unknown) - about 800 prisoners. They were distributed as follows: 250 for the restoration of the power plant, 200 for the construction of power lines, 100 were given to the Commissariat of Motor Transport.
    6) In the building of the Women's Diocesan School - 750 prisoners. At the disposal of the Commissariat of Light and Food Industry.

    In addition, 500 prisoners entered the Dubossary Executive Committee, the Railroad - 1 prisoners, Champagne Kombinatu - 750. 1 prisoners each entered the Commissariats of the Border Troops and Internal Affairs.

    The destroyed Chisinau required more and more workers.
    Another branch of the camp was planned to be built on Orhei in the Hippodrome area.
    The camp was supposed to accommodate another 3000 prisoners.


    By 1948, many prisoners of war were distributed to other camps on the territory of Ukraine, some returned to their homeland.
    Thus, as of January 1, there were 198 prisoners of war in camp No. 1, of which 746 were Germans, 1 Hungarians, 413 Romanians, 293 Austrians, 17 Moldovans, 15 Ukrainian and one Pole.
    By June 22, 1948, there were already 1072 prisoners of war in the camp.

    On the materials of "Prisoner of war camp in Chisinau"
    http://oldchisinau.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=3751
  • megavolt823
    megavolt823 31 August 2020 11: 06 New
    +3
    Dear author! The Warsaw bloc, the USSR and others have long gone down in history. There is no point in covering up and being politically correct. I understand that it was hammered in for a long time, like they called it, but in a general word. Hitlerites, fascists, Nazis and others. There were 13 countries. Simply put, Europe. Ethnic Germans in the infantry were from 4,5 to 6 million (according to various sources) out of 65-68 million of the population. Hungary out of 9 with a little almost a million fought. Nationalism is base, the whole society as a whole. The Germans had nothing to do with many tragedies. Austrians also spoke and speak German. Like a third of Italy, half of Belgium, and so on. Slovenia has officially declared war. Many Romanians died in captivity due to hunger and the consequences of frostbite in Stalingrad. The prisoners were very motley. The Germans after 41 did not want to go into the trench. There were up to half of them. Many Germans who did not share Hitler's vision were sent to the (front) in the trench. The military elite of Germany made an attempt on Hitler. And then somehow monuments are being rolled around Europe, but it seems like (we) liberated them. It is necessary to pay more attention to the mood of people in countries before and after 1941. It and Germany somehow behaved differently. And England and France in 1938 (if I'm not mistaken) wanted to bomb Baku and other cities of the USSR. This is me once again about Europe, plans, moods. It makes no sense to write about Germany, it was demonized for a long time. Made the culprit. But all of Europe wanted this. That's how it is now.
  • Andobor
    Andobor 31 August 2020 12: 55 New
    0
    Stalin is definitely to blame for everything, he did not hang all the Germans as Nazi criminals,
    so they had to die as innocent prisoners of war,
    - we all know, - the boy Kolya told.
    1. megavolt823
      megavolt823 1 September 2020 09: 48 New
      +4
      I would say that all of Europe was at war. And there was no punishment. Even the desecration was assigned only to Germany. And the rest live as victims of communism and suffered from the USSR, as they explain it. I'm not a bloody person, but I can say for sure. Impunity is a direct path to repetition.
  • Grossvater
    Grossvater 1 September 2020 17: 29 New
    +3
    Mom, the Kingdom of Heaven, told me.
    There were a lot of them in Kazan. We worked without an escort. They certainly did not starve, because our children were fed. Mom stayed alone at 13, just 45m.
    Here the Romanians were somehow calibrated, healthy as horses and angry as dogs. Those only under escort with machine guns.
    In general, both past and present Germans have to pray every morning for a portrait of Stalin until their foreheads are bruised that they, bastards, were not shocked into the ground!
    1. Mordvin 3
      Mordvin 3 1 September 2020 19: 51 New
      +2
      Quote: Grossvater
      Here the Romanians were somehow calibrated, healthy as horses and angry as dogs.

      Not confused with the Hungarians?