Military Review

Slavs of the VI-VIII centuries. With a shield?

186

Anty fight with the Avar rider. Drawing by the author


In this article, continuing the cycle on the early military stories Slavs, we will focus on the protective weapons and clothing of the soldiers of the VI-VIII centuries.

Shield: the history of the term


The origin of this name is debated by specialists. Researchers are very careful in identifying the origin of this word. We have four versions.

The first is related to the "Celtic theory". It was put forward at the beginning of the twentieth century. Its essence is as follows. The Venets were a Celtic tribe that migrated to Powisle, here they conquered the Proto-Slavs. And the word "shield", or Czech "štit", thus, goes back to the Celtic sceitos (Shakhmatov A.A.).

Indeed, we have similar analogies. The Romans borrowed from the Celts both the name and the actual shield of a large size - dash or phirea (θυρεος) from the word door (θυρа). From now on we will use the term "dash" in this work.

The next version is a borrowing from the Latin language of the word scutum, but then the Slavic shield would have to sound like * scut or * skyt (Brand RF).

Another version is the borrowing of the Gothic skildus (modern Schild) (Brand RF).
Finally, the hypothesis, according to which the term could be completely Slavic, "only accidentally similar to the Latin and Germanic" names (Brand RF, M. Fasmer).

The researcher Brand R.F. at first inclined towards the Gothic version, but later, in lectures on Slavic philology, he did not mention it.

In the XXI century. ideas were put forward to correct pre-existing theories.

The "Latin version" was updated and substantiated. It was clarified that scutum (scutum - square shield) was borrowed during the period of existence of "late (vulgar) Latin" (Viach. Vs. Ivanov).

This is the term used by the researcher.

Another original version suggests that the Slavs had two names for the shield in the XNUMXth century. One, borrowed from the Celtic-Roman language, meant a shield with an umbilicus, and it has survived to this day. Another proper Slavic:

“Most likely, the word * abig was used by the Slavs in the XNUMXth century. to designate, first of all, their own (and not Celtic-Roman) shields, distinguished by the absence of an umbilicus and great weight. "

(Shuvalov P.V.)

It should be borne in mind that since the time of the La Tène archaeological culture (from La Teng at Lake Neuchâtel in Switzerland), within which the Proto-Slavs could supposedly recognize this term, the shape and size of the shield changed.

In the Roman army, the name scutum (scutum) during the III-IV century. n. e. passed from a cylindrical shield to an oval one. And in the VI century. this word was applied to round and oval shields.

The conclusion about the two names of the early Slavic shields leads us to the following reasoning. First of all, the fact that the Slavs in the VI century. had a separate name for their shields, associated with their principled appearance, which distinguished them from the Roman-Celtic shields with an umbilicus.

In this case, it turns out that since the time of Proto-Slavic-Celtic contacts, the borrowed Celtic word "shield" should have become a generic name for shields or lost, the existence of two names is hardly possible, especially within the framework of the tribal system and in conditions when the Proto-Slavs and early Slavs did not have any variety in weapons. Simply put, in the language of this period there was no place for superfluous names unrelated to the most important functions of management.

Let us repeat: there is nothing to say that for a long time the Slavs, who lived in huge spaces, retained two names for shields.

The same can be said about the arrival of the name of the shield from "late (vulgar) Latin" (Viach. Vs. Ivanov).

This borrowing was theoretically possible, since even in the VI century. in the Byzantine army exclusively Latin terms were used, in contrast to literature, where Greek already dominated. Mauritius Stratigus uses the Greek version of the Latin term scutarius (σκουτάρια).

But here new questions arise: how did this name spread from the Slavs in contact with the Romans to those who did not have such contacts, and the word "shield" is in all Slavic languages.

We think that the arguments of the researchers who have substantiated that the word "shield" of Slavic origin are relevant to similar names in other languages, this opinion also has mental and material justifications. Since, according to extremely rare sources, the shield was used by the Proto-Slavs already in the XNUMXst century. n. e. (M. Fasmer).

Slavic shield from Byzantine authors


Now let's move on to the problem of fixing the Slavic "shield" among the Byzantine writers. In historiography, due to the fact that in the sources there are two completely contradictory messages about the Slavic shields of the XNUMXth century. (small and cumbersome), there are discussions: what kind of shield did the early Slavs have?

On the one hand, there is a message from Procopius of Caesarea that

“The majority go to the enemies on foot, having shields (small shields) (άσπίδια)”.

The term άσπίδια is traditionally translated as "small shield".

On the other hand, the author of the Strategikon, perhaps in the first half, and possibly at the end of the XNUMXth century, reports on the hard-to-bear Slavic shields - σκουτάρια.

The confusion here is also due to the fact that the writers of this period used the Greek and Latin names on equal terms. In order to make the text especially attractive, outdated terms were used.

If the "small shield" appears only in the work of Procopius, then the "large shield" has some "roots" in antiquity. Tacitus wrote that the Wends in the XNUMXst century. there were scuta gestant - shields, as an option, "large shields".

In the "Miracles of Dmitry Thessaloniki" (CHDS), it is reported about the shields (άσπίδων), from which the Slavs built a defense, instead of the palisade around Thessalonica in 597.

In Procopius of Caesarea, who defined the Slavic shield as άσπίδια, the main name for the shield was aspis (ασπίς). For the huge shields of the Persian infantry and the huge siege shields of the Goths, he uses the term dash - θυρεον - θυρεούς.

Therefore, the question arises why, having used ασπίς (shield, our counting) 53 times, he calls the Slavic shield άσπίδια. Without using other ancient names for the small shield: λαισηια πτεροεντα (winged) or πέλτη (pelta).

A contemporary of Procopius, John Lead, who was engaged in systematization, including military names, explained the term aspis (ἀσπίδος) as a scutum, opposing it to a much larger shield: dash (θυρεος) or klipeus (clipeus).

Non-inventory Slavic burials do not make it possible to talk about the appearance of the Early Slavic shields, however, as well as about other weapons and start a dispute about the size as if to a dead end (Polyakov A.S.).

What are the opinions or reasons for eliminating this contradiction?

First, the version that the translation of the term Кσπίδια by Procopius of Caesarea as “small shield” is incorrect.

Traditionally, as we noted, άσπίδια, including in explanatory dictionaries, it is translated as "small shield".

The translation did not take into account the writing style of Procopius of Caesarea, who used archaic ancient Greek terms:

"... through άσπίδια καί ακόντια" shields and darts ", trying, on the one hand, to maintain some correspondence with military terms in terms of suffixes, on the other hand, continuing to attize."

(Shuvalov P.V.)

The researcher concludes:

“… In the late antique era in the military environment, the suffix -ιόν lost its diminutive meaning, for example: άκόντιον, σκουτάριον. Therefore, Procopius' άσπίδιον simply means "shield" ασπίς. "

Other researchers explain the difference in the size of the shields by the evolution from the small shield of Procopius of Caesarea to the large shield of Mauritius (B. Zasterova).

Still others believe that different sizes of shields correspond to different tribes (Nefyodkin A.K.).

The question remains open also because we do not have archaeological data on the shields. But the neighbors of the Slavs could have some influence on their weapons.

In order to draw these parallels, we will briefly consider the shields of the peoples who interacted with the Slavs during this period.

Neighbor Shields


Romei. Byzantine shields of the 1,07th-1,18th centuries have not survived to us, but we have many of their identical images, as well as earlier specimens of shields (0,92rd century). Such a shield was oval, slightly curved, 0,97-12 cm long, 15-8 cm wide. They were made from 12-1 wooden planks XNUMX-XNUMX mm thick. The thickness of the shield was XNUMX cm. Poplar was used as a material. The shields could be covered with skin on both sides, or they could not be covered. They were painted, and depending on the status of the warrior, either regimental insignia were applied to them, or they had individual drawings (Bannikov A.V.).

But Anonymous VI century. suggested that the shield should be about 120-130 cm in size. This size was the length of the classic rectangular scutum of the period of the empire (121 cm long and 75 cm wide).

I wrote in more detail about the Roman shields in articles on "VO" dedicated to the Byzantine army of the XNUMXth century.

I repeat, the Roman shields of the XNUMXth-XNUMXth centuries that have come down to us. no, only iconography and descriptions in written sources. In contrast to the "barbarian" shields, the remains of which were found in numerous graves of Germanic tribes, including the neighbors of the Slavs. Of course, among these finds, the key is a convex metal protection for the hand - an umbo. We believe that among the finds of umbons there are undoubtedly Roman specimens that fell to the German either as a result of trade, or as trophies, or they were made by captive craftsmen.


Umbon with bronze decoration. Nocera Umbra. Lombard Grave No. 1. VI century Photo by the author

The Germans. What was the German shield of mass production, can be seen on the example of the shield of the Franks of the XNUMXth century, described by Agathius of Mirine:

“… In another place, the broken shields were recovered so that they were usable again, and the preparations went on successfully. For the armament of this people is simple and does not need numerous artisans, but, I think, what is needed can be easily prepared by anyone, if something is broken. "

Based on the data of archeology, it can be argued that the shield of the Germans of the VI-VIII centuries. had an extremely simple design. It was absolutely flat, with a cutout for a fist, which was covered with a umbilicus, to which a handle or a handle was attached from the back, most often by means of through rivets.

The shields of the Lombards differed from the shields of other Germanic tribes (Franks, Alemans, Bavars) and were convex, not flat, so this made it possible to use the original fastening of the handles that copied the convexity of the shields (necropolis of Noser Umbra, grave 24). The umbon was installed by riveting through the surface of the shield.

A handle (or rivets in the area of ​​the umbil) was attached to the hole under the umbo, sometimes also at the edge of the shield or with the help of ends abutting against the edge of the shield.

The Lombards used hemispherical shields, which we often find in the Roman images of this period: in the Iliad manuscript of the XNUMXth century, kept in Milan, on a mosaic from the Great Palace of Constantinople, a church in Heaven, a church near Kissufim in Jordan, etc.


Umbons and fastening shields from the graves of the Lombards. Castel Trozino

Shields and contacts


The Lombards were neighbors of the Slavs for quite a long time, later the Slavs even participated in the war with the Lombards against the Romans, and then they themselves fought in northern Italy against the Lombards.

The Gepids, "mad with the sword," occupied the territory on the left bank of the Danube, covering the whole of Dacia, and beyond the Danube also the cities of Sirmium and Singidun. They were the enemy neighbors of the Lombards in the area.

After the latter left for Italy, including in order to protect themselves from violent new neighbors - the Avars, the Slavic tribes lived with the Gepids in the same territory, took part with them in campaigns, independently, and later as tributaries of the Avars (after 568), and were familiar with their weapons (Bistritski P.).

From the written data it is known that after the defeat in 512 the Heruls lived on the borders of the Romans as federates, then moved to the Gepids, archaeologists show the presence of Herul settlements on the territory of modern Serbia under the Danube. And the Slavs could come into contact with this ethnos, using swords and shields (I. Bugarski, V. Ivanishevich).

Thus, we see that the Slavs, starting from the period of their settlement on the Danube border, were in close contact with the Germanic ethnic groups, and if there were technological barriers in the field of borrowing swords, then there were fewer of them on the shields, although everything rested on the level of blacksmithing (about him - in the article on swords) when creating an umbon.

Nevertheless, today it is difficult to understand how the Slavic shield was similar in design to that of its German neighbors or differed from it.


Umbons of Germanic tribes: Alamans, Franks, Bavars. Photo by the author

Did the Slavic shields have an umbon?


Some researchers write that the shield of the Slavs, who began to raid the Roman borders at the beginning of the XNUMXth century, was without a boom, based on the fact that a "bulky" shield is a shield without a boom. What contradicts our knowledge about shields: the scutums of the end of the republic, the beginning of the empire were also massive, but they had an umbon (Nefyodkin A.K., Shuvalov P.V.).

The reasoning that a shield with an umbilicus and an attachment was used as in combat with the use of a throwing weapons, and in hand-to-hand combat, quite rightly, the absence of a pommel and shackle indicates that the shield was not used in foot combat, it is also permissible, but these conclusions cannot be applied to Slavic weapons, since we do not have data sources: even by With javelins, we have an extremely weak and controversial archaeological base (Nefyodkin A.K.).

At the same time, Shuvalov believes that the absence of an umbon does not prevent the Slavic shield-bearers, standing in the first row, from using it in the ranks.

By this we do not want to say that the shields of the early Slavs had umbons, I just would like to emphasize that there is no information about this in the sources.

Considering the fact that the Slavs (some tribes) were quite successfully able to master the construction of siege equipment, it is worth thinking that the creation of shields of a more advanced design should not have caused difficulties.

Today, more questions are connected with the umbo, which cannot be identified among the Slavs, because we do not have archaeological finds.

As for the difference in the size of the shields, it can be explained not by the evolution from small to large, which contradicts the sources on the Slavic shields, but, possibly, by the ethnic characteristics of individual tribes or clans.

Large sturdy shields


We can assume that we are observing evolution not in size, but in general, in the development from very weak weapons, possibly shields, as Jordan writes about, to large shields, taking into account the influence of the neighbors of the Germans and the Roman army.

In the end, the shield of the Slavs fell under the name of the large infantry shield of the Byzantines, naturally, with a certain ethnic coloration. It is not for nothing that Vasileus Leo VI The Wise Shield of the Oplites and Slavs designates the already known term dash: thyura or tureus. His work was based on the "Strategicon" of Mauritius, and he, as can be assumed, to bring more clarity during the writing of his strategy in the XNUMXth century, designated the Slavic shields with the term dash, that is, "large shield". Since Mauritius wrote that the Slavic shield is strong, but difficult to bear.

It seems to us that the author of the "Strategicon" pointed to the fortress not by chance: despite the fact that the Slavs carried out ambush attacks, it was the arrows that posed a significant threat to them, as indicated by Mauritius in his recommendations to the stratiots. And a skillful shooter, about which, for example, Agathius of Mirinei writes, could pierce both shield and armor with an arrow, which was done by Goth Aligern, who killed the Byzantine taxiarch Palladius with a shot from the walls of Qom.

And one more addition about the "fortress" of the shield from the same Agathius. Oddly enough, this case happened with a descendant of a Slav in the Roman army. Leontius, son of ant and taxiarch (centurion) Dabragez,

"Slipped in some puddle, fell and rolled down, breaking the shield (ασπίς)."

Of course, this is just an example of the difference between "not very strong" and "strong" but "difficult to bear" shields.

Do not lose sight of the fact that an important requirement for weapons has always been to reduce weight while maintaining or improving technical characteristics. Therefore, for the author of "Strategikon", who knows a more technological Roman shield, the device of which we wrote above, the shield of the Slavs seemed cumbersome.

In the ChDS it is reported that “they [the Slavs. - E. V.] was the interweaving of closed shields with each other. " Therefore, we can confidently say that the Slavs used large shields as a “wall” against arrows. Obviously, it is easiest to use in such a situation strong and large, and not small shields.

Thus, taking into account the scarce data of the sources, it can be assumed that in the XNUMXth-XNUMXth centuries the Slavs used a strong large shield, the size of which may have varied. For the most part, these were primitive shields of their own production within the clan community, most likely, as "simple" as the shields of the Franks described by Agathius of Myrene. Their severity and intolerance can be explained by the low level of technology, when, perhaps, whole boards were used for the manufacture. The most important, as it seems to us, was protection from throwing weapons, which provided a strong, difficult-to-bear shield, a primitive one, which was not a pity to throw in case of a necessary retreat.

The Slavs, like all peoples, used trophy shields and adopted technologies, where possible and where their level of production allowed.

When considering this type of weapon, like other weapons, one should take into account the factor of the general low material culture of the Slavic tribes of this period. The tribes located on the borders of Byzantium differed in material terms from the tribes far from these lands (Mavrodin V.V.).

Clothing and protection of the Slavs


To begin with, we present in two different translations a well-known passage from Procopius of Caesarea about the attire of a Slav. A message that sometimes raises great doubts. The first, "chaste" translation:

"Others do not wear tunics or raincoats, but only trousers, pulled up by a wide belt at the hips, and in this form they go to fight the enemies."

(Kondratyev S.P.)

The second is made in an attempt to convey the description more clearly:

“Some, however, do not have [on themselves] either a tunic or a [coarse] cloak, but having fitted only pants [anaxirids. - E.V.], covering the shameful units, and enter into battle with the enemies. "

(Ivanov S.A., Gindin L.A., Tsymbursky L.V.)

After analyzing historiography (opinions about this clothing are very different: a loincloth, rolled-up pants) and translations of this passage into different languages, the translator of the text suggests that the Slavs before the battle dressed in anaxirids (άναξυριδες), a kind of leggings:

"The essence of the phrase is how we think that the Slavs wear only anaxirids for battle, and not that their only preparation is to pull up their pants."

(Ivanov S.A.)

There is another opinion, its essence lies in the fact that the ports of the Slavs appeared later, and the described robes were

"Leggings (wide leggings), tucked up so as to only slightly cover the male dignity of the Slavic warrior."

(Shuvalov P.V.)

The meaning of this garment remains a mystery.

But in Procopius of Caesarea, anaxirids were synonymous with pants, in the Secret History, describing the Hunnic fashion in Constantinople, he pointed to “wide pants” - anaxirids, which were worn by the capital's fashionistas.

It seems that after all, the Slavs did not wear some kind of leggings-leggings, which were worn before the battle and slightly covered their manhood, but pants, consisting of two trousers, which were supported by a belt so as not to fall off, that is, they covered the "shameful places" ...

We have archaeological data from Egypt on the "gaiters" of the Roman warriors, and they reach the knees or slightly higher, the Lombards wore white gaiters that were worn up to the knees.

It can only be hypothetically assumed that the trousers could be very wide, as we see in the national costume of the Croats and Slovenes that has come down to us.

Let's look at two more important aspects.

Many reenactors have doubts that the Slavs who lived in the northern regions, and indeed in the Balkans, always walked with a "naked torso". But the author of the Stratigikon wrote:

"They are numerous and hardy, easily endure heat and cold, and rain, and nakedness of the body, and lack of food."

The seasoned secretary of the commander Belisarius, just like his contemporaries, who described events and ethnic groups, emphasized more vivid details and differences: the Avars have braids, the Heruls fight without armor, the Lombards are unusually aggressive, even by the standards of the Early Middle Ages. And in the case of the Slav warrior, Procopius is talking about "other" or "some", special warriors who did not wear chitons. A chiton or tunic is the outerwear used during this period. Thus, he reports only about some men who fought in the Slavic army. It is difficult to say how many such soldiers were.

But in the ranks of "barbarians" such an appearance was not uncommon. Of course, it surprised the Roman authors, but, I repeat, it was common for Indo-European tribes of the tribal system. Polybius also reported about naked Celtic warriors in the battle of Telamon, Cannes, etc.

Procopius of Caesarea described the Heruls with whom he was in battles more than once:

"... to make it easier to fight, or to show that they despise the wounds inflicted by the enemies, they went into battle naked, covering only shameful places."

His younger contemporary, Agathius of Myrenees, depicts the Franks:

"With bare chest and back, they only wear pants, linen or leather."

We see that the participation of half-naked soldiers in the battle is a fairly common place, and not a specificity of the Slavs alone.

A warrior in this form sought both to frighten enemies, to amaze them with his appearance, and to emphasize his valor, "fierce courage and unbridled military strength."

Such warriors also fought among the tribesmen dressed in "tunics". There is an opinion about such fighters that they were members of military "werewolf" brotherhoods (Alekseev S.V.).

What we think is insufficiently substantiated and does not correspond to the stage of development of Slavic society of the XNUMXth-XNUMXth centuries, see previous articles on "VO".

However, we do not know anything else about the appearance of the Slavic warrior. The Byzantine authors (except for the controversial point discussed above) do not distinguish them in any way, therefore, it can be assumed that they wore the same homespun long shirts, had outerwear made of coarse fabrics or skins. It seems that this clothing, due to the conservatism of the clan and postnatal system, has changed little over the centuries and has come down to us from Ancient Rus.

Goths, Lombards, Franks, Saxons had some peculiarities in their clothes. Of course, the Slavic dress also had differences, and the Chronicle of Fredegar tells us about this in the XNUMXth century, but what was the specifics, in the ornaments on the linings on clothes, belts, we can only guess: the first Slavic king Samo, his entourage, everything were dressed in Slavic clothes, which for some unknown reason differed from the clothes of the Franks.

As for protective equipment, we do not know anything about it among the early Slavs. They could use protective weapons obtained from both nomads and Romans. Voi, who ended up in military service in Byzantium, in case of entry into the catalog, of course, were supplied with Roman equipment.

The question remains open: were the Slavs in protective armor on boats in the Golden Horn Bay during the siege of Constantinople in 626, or were there only Avars and other nomads in it, and there were Slavs, Bulgarians, and other barbarians on the boats?

Avars, who preferred to fight in the second line, sent forward those who did not feel sorry for their "slaves": Slavs, Bulgars and Gepids. After the defeat in the Golden Horn, the kagan in a rage ordered to beat all those who survived, so there are doubts that the boats were "plated" -avars, they, most likely, remained on horseback in front of the Charisian gate and the gate of St. Romanus. It can be assumed that the Slavs could have been defensively armed in this battle. Armor, or rather, laminar armor plates used by nomads, were found at the Slavic settlement in Khotomel. The main finds of elements of chain mail and armor belong to the territory of the Antes.

Even taking into account the lack of inventory of the Slavic burials and the highest value of such equipment, which, most likely, continued to be used after the death of the owner, it must be noted that this evidence is extremely small.

Trophy protection, perhaps, went to the leaders and the best warriors. The same can be said for helmets. But during the siege of Thessaloniki in the 60s of the XNUMXth century. the Slavs act as oplites, and they may have had protective gear. But these are just assumptions.

The overwhelming majority of Slavic warriors fought without protective weapons, defending themselves exclusively with shields and using natural and artificial shelters.

Sources and literature:

Cornelius Tacitus. Works in two volumes. SPb., 1993.
Jean de Lydien Des magistratures de l'État Romain.TI 2 partie. Paris. 2006.
About the strategy. Byzantine military treatise of the 2007th century // Translation and commentary by V.V. Kuchma. SPb., XNUMX.
Agathius of Mirinei. On the reign of Justinian // Translated by M.V. Levchenko. M., 1996.
Jordan. About the origin and deeds of the Getae. Introductory article, translation, comments by E.Ch. Skrzhinsky. SPb., 1997.
Ammianus Marcellinus Roman history. Translated from Latin by Yu.A. Kulakovsky and A.I. Sonny. SPb., 2000.
A.A. Shakhmatov On the question of the oldest Slavic-Celtic relations. Kazan, 1912.
Perevalov S.M. Flavius ​​Arrian's tactical treatises. Text, translation, comments. M., 2010.
Brand R.F. Additional notes on the analysis of Miklosich's etymological dictionary // Russian philological bulletin. T. 24. Warsaw. 1890.
Fasmer M. Etymological dictionary of the Russian language in 4 volumes. Translated by O.N. Trubachev. T. IV. M., 1987.
Brand R.F. Introduction to Slavic Philology. M., 1912.
Ivanov Viach. Sun. Late (vulgar) Latin and Roman borrowings in Slavic // Slavic linguistic and ethno-linguistic system in contact with a non-Slavic environment. M., 2002.
Shuvalov P. V. Weapons of the early Slavs // "Cultural transformations and mutual influences in the Dnieper region at the end of Roman time and in the early Middle Ages", 2004. Volume 11. Proceedings of the Institute for the History of Material Culture. SPb., 2004.
A. V. Bannikov M.A. Morozov Byzantine army (IV-XII centuries). SPb., 2019.
Polyakov A.S. Military science among the Slavs in the VI-VII centuries. Abstract dissertation. for a job. scientific degree Ph.D. SPb., 2005.
A. V. Bannikov Roman army in the 2011th century (from Constantine to Theodosius). SPb., 66.S. XNUMX.
Negin A.E. Roman ceremonial and tournament weapons. SPb., 2010.
Dando-Collins S. The Complete History of All Roman Legions of the Roman Empire. M., 2015.
Khlevov A.A. Harbingers of the Vikings. Northern Europe in the I-VIII centuries. SPb., 2005.
Bugarski I., Ivanishevich V. Borderlands of the Roman Empire and the barbarians: the system of defense of the empire from Kutsi to Lederate // Forest and forest-steppe zones of Eastern Europe in the era of Roman influences and the Great Migration of Nations. Conference 3: Sat. articles / Ed. A.M. Vorontsov, I. O. Gavritukhina. Tula, 2012.
A.K. Nefyodkin The tactics of the Slavs in the VI century. (according to the testimony of early Byzantine authors) // Byzantine time book № 87. 2003.
Peroz Jane, Allen Stephen. Rome and its enemies. Per. Shmelevoy O., Kolina A.M., 2014.
Alekseev S.V. Slavic Europe of the 5th — 6th centuries. M., 2005.
Southern P., Dixon KR Roman Army. London, 1996.
Greek Lexicon of the Roman and Byzantine Periods. New York, C. Scribner's sons, 1900.
Peter Bystrický Longobardsko-gepidské nepriatel'stvo v cˇase Justiniánovej vojny proti Gótov. // Byzantinoslovaca, Vol. Vi. Praga. 2017.
Zasterova B. Les Avares et les Slaves dans la Tacticrue de Maurice. Pr., 1971.


To be continued ...
Author:
Articles from this series:
How the ancient Slavs fought
The siege of the Slavs in the VI-VII centuries
How the ancient Slavs took the city
As the early Slavs actually fought
Was the squad among the early Slavs?
The clan and military organization of the early Slavs of the VI — VIII centuries
Slavs and the First Bulgarian Kingdom in the VII-VIII centuries
The origin of the Slavs
Slavs and the beginning of the Great Migration
Slavs and Avars in the VI century
Slavs on the Danube in the VI century
Slavs, Avars and Byzantium. The beginning of the VII century
Slavs on the threshold of statehood
The first state of the Slavs
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  1. Mavrikiy
    Mavrikiy 28 August 2020 05: 58 New
    0
    The origin of this name is debated by specialists. Researchers are very careful in identifying the origin of this word. We have four versions.
    belay What's so little? Run out of fingers? repeat What do you think: word shield came from protection, or shield protection? what
    Still others believe that different sizes of shields correspond to different tribes (Nefyodkin A.K.).
    Nefyodkin is smart. good
    1. Grandfather
      Grandfather 28 August 2020 06: 49 New
      +2
      Quote: Mavrikiy
      What's so little? Run out of fingers?

      and in general the text is short ... fellow laughing
      What do you think: word shield came from protection, or protection from shield?
      I don't know, but the Yankees swear like that! yes
  2. rich
    rich 28 August 2020 06: 04 New
    10
    Did the Slavic shields have an umbon?

    Shields of the pre-Mongol period have not yet been found on the territory of Russia. Only individual metal elements were found. Almost all of them were found in the mounds of the XNUMXth century. The main sources by which one can judge about Old Russian shields are images on preserved icons, seals, miniatures, etc.
    An important part of the Old Russian shield, according to which, in fact, it is possible to establish the fact that it once was in this place, are the remains of metal rim brackets and an umbon. The only Old Russian shield is the so-called. "Lyubshanskiy" from excavations in Staraya Ladoga, for which it was possible to determine the shape, turned out to be round, flat, with an umbil in the center and metal brackets along the edge for better fastening of the boards. The shield also had attachments for the shoulder strap, which were common among the Vikings and in Europe in general. They were assembled from boards, covered with leather. In size they reached half or a third of a person's height.
    a photo. modern replica of "Lyubshansky shit"
    1. rich
      rich 28 August 2020 06: 13 New
      +9
      During the pre-revolutionary excavations of the Gnezdovsky burial mound near Smolensk, well-preserved remains of the shield were found. Here is how the author of the excavations Vladimir Ilyich Sizov describes it: “Thanks to the traces of wood left from the shield, one can imagine the approximate dimensions of the shield, measuring the distance of these pieces of wood from the central plaque or umbon; with this measurement, the width or length of the shield reaches 1 meter. In the area of ​​the once-lying shield, many iron clips or clips were found [meaning the edge of the edge - VS] in the form of double-bent iron plates with holes or nails at the ends, which served to fasten the edges of the shield and perfectly preserved pieces of wood inside; These pieces of wood often represent oblique layers, which are clearly explained by the fact that the boards of which the shield consisted had rounded edges at the edges corresponding to the circumference of a circle. Taking into account the preserved traces of wood on the nearby stones, one can also confidently assert that the shield had a circular outline. It is also easy to determine the thickness of the shield boards by the iron clips; it can also be considered to some extent likely that the shield was painted red, since the tree in one of the carriages retained traces of red paint. "
      This is practically all that ancient Russian archeology gives to recreate the shield. Summarizing the above, we can say that that part of the Old Russian shields, which is recorded by archaeological sources, had a round-shaped field with a thickness of 5-8 mm, sometimes it was supplied with a metal umbon and, less often, with metal fittings along the edge.
      It is obvious that the current picture is far from complete. To a large extent, this helps to make up for the material of the adjacent territories and, mainly, Scandinavia. It was from this region that a type of round shield with a metal umbil and fittings came to the territory of Ancient Rus. The Scandinavian origin of these shields is confirmed both by the huge number of details found on its territory, and by the centuries-old history of the development of this type of shields in this region. It is significant that almost all the shields found on the territory of Ancient Rus come from monuments where the "Scandinavian presence" is felt very strongly.
      a photo Vladimir Ilyich Sizov, one of the first researchers of Gnezdov
      1. rich
        rich 28 August 2020 06: 19 New
        +9
        Gnezdovo is an archaeological reserve 12 km from Smolensk, a unique, mysterious place, one of the most significant for Old Russian history, torn apart by disputes. The name "Gnezdovo" has been mentioned only since the 15th century, as the name of the ancient settlement is unknown, but there is an assumption that this is the epic "Veligrad". But most likely the ancient settlement was the original site of Smolensk, which was probably moved to its present site in the 10th century. This conclusion can be made on the basis of archaeological finds at the site of the Smolensk fortress - the core of the city, where the earliest cultural layers date back to the second half of the 11th century, and in the chronicles, the city is mentioned as early as the 9th century.

        In the area of ​​Gnezdov (Smolensk), there was a portage between the Dnieper and the Kasplea river (a tributary of the Western Dvina), along which the "route from the Vikings to the Greeks" passed. By the way, in the burial mound of the Gnezdovsky complex, a Cyrillic inscription was found dating from about the middle of the 10th century, i.e. made half a century before the baptism of Russia.

        According to archaeological finds, we can conclude that Gnezdovo (Smolensk) in the 8-10th century was the largest city of Ancient Rus. Modern historians and archaeologists even suggest more - it was Gnezdovo (Smolensk?) That was the capital of northeastern Rus, and not Novgorod. In this sense, the arrival of Oleg in 882 to Smolensk (Gnezdovo), and not to Novgorod or Ladoga, is not accidental, he came to the capital and "took over the power", as it is written in the chronicle, i.e. inherited it, and did not take it by force:
        ... and came to Smolensk with the Krivichs, and assumed power in the city ...

        Why, having united the Russian lands, Prince Oleg moved the capital to Kiev is another question, but it must be said that he moved it not from Novgorod, but from Gnezdovo.
        1. Trilobite Master
          Trilobite Master 28 August 2020 12: 44 New
          +2
          Quote: Rich
          According to archaeological finds, we can conclude that Gnezdovo (Smolensk) in the 8-10th century was the largest city of Ancient Rus.

          Dmitry, with all due respect, Gnezdovo is only the XNUMXth century for certain, the XNUMXth is at the stage of proof. About the VIII century, as far as I know, there is no talk at all yet. If not difficult, share the source of information.
          For my part, as a lover of Gnezdovo and archeology in general, I want to recommend that you watch, if you haven't seen, a couple of these videos:


          The first - about how the find was made, the second - its discussion, as they say, "hot".
          1. rich
            rich 28 August 2020 13: 43 New
            +1
            Vidio is gorgeous. Thank you, Mikhail. Unheard of luck for both the film crew and the expedition
            Dmitry, with all due respect, Gnezdovo is only the XNUMXth century for certain, the XNUMXth is at the stage of proof. About the VIII century, as far as I know, there is no talk at all yet. If not difficult, share the source of information.

            I refer to the work of TI Alekseeva "Ethnogenesis of the Eastern Slavs".
            Investigations of the floodplain part of the Central settlement made it possible to clarify the dating of the Gnezdov finale. At excavation P-2, a series of dendrodates was obtained from the lower horizon of the cultural layer (horizon 5), the latest of which is 1002
            in 2018, already 10 years after the death of Tatyana Ivanovna, the archaeological expedition of E.A. Schmidt in the Gnezdovsky mound L-210, where a man and two women were buried, 20 Eastern dirhams of the beginning of the XNUMXth century and a gold Byzantine coin, dating which fits into the second half of the VIII century.
            1. Trilobite Master
              Trilobite Master 28 August 2020 14: 41 New
              +1
              L-210?
              Looked, thanks. It turns out that I read about this mound, I just did not remember its name. But there is a sword of type "E" according to Petersen, and this immediately dates it to the earliest second half of the 829th century. Plus the gold solidus is not the 842th, but the XNUMXth century. - the time of the emperor Theophilus (XNUMX - XNUMX).
              Regarding the same solid found, by the way, in the neighboring mound (L-47), G.S. Lebedev, I remember, even built a hypothesis that the embassy of the Russians in 839, so hated by the anti-Normanists, who turned out to be "sveons", to the emperor Louis still returned home - and this house was on the Dnieper. Gold coins were brought from Constantinople as souvenirs (the export of gold from Byzantium was prohibited), they were worn as amulets and were buried with them. Actually, why not? smile
              But this is still the XNUMXth century ... smile
          2. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave 28 August 2020 22: 18 New
            +3
            Sometimes one gets the impression that Gnezdovo is a deposit of swords ..
            1. Trilobite Master
              Trilobite Master 28 August 2020 23: 17 New
              +2
              Quote: 3x3zsave
              Sometimes one gets the impression that Gnezdovo is a deposit of swords ..

              Yes, not so often, unfortunately, swords are there ...
              In general, it seems to me, the importance of Gnezdovo for the early history of Russia may not be as global as Dmitry (rich) says, but until recently it was clearly underestimated. They found "wet" archaeological layers, and, as it is believed, the most ancient - we are waiting for sensations, I think it will be very interesting. smile
    2. rich
      rich 28 August 2020 06: 35 New
      +9
      Fragments of at least 20 shields have been archeologically recorded on the territory of Ancient Rus. The most frequently encountered and clearly identifiable part of the shield is the umbon, which is an iron hemisphere attached to the center of the shield.
      A.N.Kirpichnikov distinguishes two types of Old Russian umbons: hemispherical and sphero-conical. The first type includes 13 out of 16 found specimens. All of them are standard in shape - hemispherical vault on a low neck, and in size - diameter 13,2-15,5 cm, height 5,5-7 cm. The thickness of the metal does not exceed 1,5 mm.
      The second type includes three umbons, two of which come from the Southeastern Ladoga area and one more was found in the ancient Russian layer of the Tsimlyansk settlement. These are sphero-conical umbels, most clearly expressed in the Ladoga specimens. They are somewhat larger than umbons of the first type: diameter 15,6 cm and 17,5 cm, height 7,8 cm and 8,5 cm. There is no neck. Umbon from the Tsimlyansk settlement is smaller (diameter 13,4 cm, height 5,5 cm) and the presence of a small ledge at the top of the vault.
      Umbons of both types have fields with a width of 1,5-2,5 cm. On these fields, from 4 to 8 holes were punched through which nails (rarely rivets) passed, fastening the umbon on the wooden field of the shield. Several fastening nails have survived, which make it possible to roughly calculate the thickness of the wooden field under the umbon. With a length of 2,5 to 5 cm, the nails are bent in such a way that the thickness of the wooden field is reconstructed within 7-8 mm. At the same time, on one of the booms of the second type found in the Ladoga area, a rivet was fixed that did not have bends, 4,5 cm long. According to A.N. Kirpichnikov, similar rivets simultaneously fastened the boom edge, the shield board and the handle bar.
      1. rich
        rich 28 August 2020 06: 56 New
        +8
        The most complete information is available about the shields found in the Swedish burial ground Birka. The good preservation of organic material, as well as the fixation of the state of affairs at the time of discovery, made it possible to identify some details that were not traced in domestic finds. A total of 68 shields were found in Birka. The burial plans suggest that the shields were round. The diameter of the shields varied from 80 to 95 cm. In three cases, the species of wood was determined from which the shield field was made: yew, maple, and fir.
        As in Ancient Russia, the main part of the finds of the remains of the shields in Birka were umbons. In addition to the hemispherical umbars with a low neck, which are most common in Russia, Umbons with a high neck, as well as without it, are found in Birka. In several cases, the edges of the umbons were decorated with pewter or bronze plates of various shapes or had triangular cutouts.
        The thickness of the shield boards is set along the length of the preserved nails for fastening the umbon: 5-6 mm. Two fastening nails, located opposite each other, had a length greater than the rest of the nails, up to 3,5 cm. This is explained by the fact that the nails simultaneously fastened the wooden field of the shield, the umbil and the handle.
        The edges of the shields were also supplied with metal (iron or bronze) fittings (from 2 to 45), fastened with two rivets. In one case, most of the fetters were tightly located on one sector.
        It can be assumed that in this way the fetters protected the most vulnerable area - the upper right sector of the shield, which accounts for the greatest number of blows. In several cases, under the fetters, the remains of a leather strip covering the edge of the shield, as well as the leather covering of the outer side of the shield, were recorded. Metal fittings, which were specially profiled with a ledge, fixed this leather strip on the edge of the shield. The distance between the ends of the fittings is 5-6 mm.
        rice... Burial of a warrior from Birka (reconstruction by B. Alyigrenu
      2. Undecim
        Undecim 28 August 2020 07: 35 New
        10
        An author like VI-VIII century describes. Or do you think that nothing has changed in the armament of the Eastern Slavs in 200 - 300 years?
        1. rich
          rich 28 August 2020 07: 59 New
          +6
          An author like VI-VIII century describes. Or do you think that nothing has changed in the armament of the Eastern Slavs in 200 - 300 years?

          No, I don't, of course. Simply the best preserved "remains" of the Slavic (Russian) pre-Mongol shields date from no earlier than the 8-10th century. Unfortunately, the "remains" of Slavic shields of the XNUMXth - XNUMXth centuries have not yet been found.
          1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
            Kote Pan Kokhanka 28 August 2020 08: 55 New
            +7
            Thank you guys for complementing Edward's work!
            No words, some emotions !!!!!!!!!!!
          2. Undecim
            Undecim 28 August 2020 09: 23 New
            +7
            Simply the best-preserved "remains" of Slavic (Russian) pre-Mongol shields date from no earlier than 8-10 centuries
            Don't you think it's too early to talk about "Russian" shields in relation to the indicated time period?
            1. rich
              rich 28 August 2020 10: 29 New
              +5
              So, Viktor Nikolaevich, (Russians) are in parentheses. Although, you know, I agree with you, it would be more correct to write like this - the best preserved "remains" of Slavic (Russian?) Shields
              1. Undecim
                Undecim 28 August 2020 10: 50 New
                +6
                Sorry for the tediousness, Dmitry, but I think that it is fair, in relation to the time in question, to speak simply about Slavic shields.
                1. rich
                  rich 28 August 2020 10: 51 New
                  +4
                  I agree with you
  3. Krasnodar
    Krasnodar 28 August 2020 06: 20 New
    +8
    Nobody considered the English origin of the word? Oh, shit! - eg laughing
    1. rich
      rich 28 August 2020 06: 41 New
      +6
      By the end of the XNUMXth century, an almond-shaped, or teardrop-shaped shield, with which Russian warriors are most often depicted, spread in Russia. Actually, it spread not only in Russia, but throughout Europe. More often, infantry is depicted with this type of shield, but its appearance and popularity are associated with cavalry. Namely, with horse spearmen, who in Europe became the main striking force. The almond-shaped shield made it possible to provide more complete coverage of the equestrian spearman - from knee to face. The round shield, although more maneuverable, did not provide protection for the legs; the almond-shaped shield was curved along the center line, apparently to slip off blows. Unlike the round shield with a fist grip, a suspension belt was used to hold the almond-shaped shield. Umbon survived, but only as a means of strengthening. They tried to expose him to strong blows.
      1. rich
        rich 28 August 2020 06: 49 New
        +5
        Sculpture of Rurik on the monument "Millennium of Russia" (1862) in Veliky Novgorod with an almond-shaped shield. On the shield there is an inscription "STO Summer", that is, according to the old chronology "Summer 6370" from the creation of the world, or 862 from the Nativity of Christ.
        1. Edward Vashchenko
          28 August 2020 12: 06 New
          +4
          I didn't want to interfere with your wonderful addition, but ... I will interfere laughing
          About the almond-shaped shield. The question of its image is rather complicated.
          Yes, in written sources only Lev the Deacon about such shields of the Russians.
          In the image, after all, more than a later period, for the X century - of course there is nothing.
          On the icons, the big question is whether it is Old Russian - is it a shield, or Byzantine: Dmitry Thessalonians of the XNUMXth century. fresco from Kiev - a question ???
          in fact, the oldest image where there is a shield is the XNUMXth century, the Mikhailovsky Monastery in Kiev, which is now kept in the Tretyakov Gallery: round shields with umbons (the one that is visible).
          A.N. Kirpichnikov reinforced this view of shields with his famous and fundamental work.
          Plus the analogy with the carpet from Baia, after 1066.
          Here you can still walk on the Scandinavian shields, but the topic is too long.
          Somehow hi
      2. Mavrikiy
        Mavrikiy 28 August 2020 07: 39 New
        -5
        Quote: Rich
        The almond-shaped shield made it possible to provide more complete coverage of the equestrian spearman - from knee to face. The round shield, although more maneuverable, did not provide protection for the legs; the almond-shaped shield was curved along the centerline, apparently to slip off blows.

        Well, here is either a cross, or cowards. You can only bend a metal cylinder, an oval with a book.
        Which leg are we protecting, right? The body is twisted and after the first collision the left side and back are defenseless.
    2. Mavrikiy
      Mavrikiy 28 August 2020 07: 19 New
      +1
      Quote: Krasnodar
      Nobody considered the English origin of the word? Oh, shit! - eg laughing

      hi You can still search in China. repeat They will be grateful. Norman theory in action. Scandinavians, Germans.foolAll peoples had shields. Starting from the Tumbu-Yumbu tribe. Woven from rods or made from planks depends on the climate and the availability of material. Ours with a tree on you. And the form and subtleties are already from the experience of the database.
      1. Krasnodar
        Krasnodar 28 August 2020 07: 24 New
        +3
        Welcome hi
        - Nikita, the commandant of the Kremlin is pointing at you ...
        - What are you, Joseph Vissarionovich?
        - Shows, shows ...
        - Spare your family, Comrade Stalin ..
        - NIKITA, IT WAS A SHUKE .
  4. rich
    rich 28 August 2020 06: 31 New
    +8
    Thank you, Edward, for the most interesting article. Special thanks for links to sources and illustrations. That rare case when there is practically nothing to add to the author's article
    Great. good
    1. Catfish
      Catfish 28 August 2020 06: 56 New
      +6
      Thank you both for the great articles. good drinks
      1. rich
        rich 28 August 2020 07: 14 New
        +6
        Good day, Constantine. respectfully hi
        According to the list of documents that Edward used, for this article I found "Shakhmatov AA" On the question of the oldest Slavic-Celtic relations ". Kazan, 1912."
        I started to read it. Well hefty interesting !.

        link http://books.e-heritage.ru/book/10095246
        1. Catfish
          Catfish 28 August 2020 07: 26 New
          +9
          Dmitry, why don't you write an extensive article yourself? I see that you have a lot of material on different periods of history, so what's the matter? And then for everything about everything, our constant trinity "puffed out", Eduard with Valery and Shpakovsky. smile
          1. rich
            rich 28 August 2020 08: 06 New
            +5
            I do not have such an extensive erudition as Edward, Valery, Vecheslav, Arthur or Undecim.
            1. 3x3zsave
              3x3zsave 28 August 2020 08: 28 New
              +4
              Dmitry! hi
              The name of the Undecim user is Victor Nikolaevich.
              Who is Arthur?
              1. rich
                rich 28 August 2020 08: 46 New
                +4
                Who is Arthur?

                In my opinion, one of the most competent authors on VO is Anton. Nick, if I'm not mistaken in spelling -Arturoperator
                1. 3x3zsave
                  3x3zsave 28 August 2020 09: 23 New
                  +4
                  Ah, I got it! His name is Artem.
                  1. rich
                    rich 28 August 2020 10: 11 New
                    +3
                    Thank you very much, Anton
                    Best regards
                    Dmitriy
                    1. Fibrizio
                      Fibrizio 28 August 2020 10: 44 New
                      +3
                      I read and become and your notes, in general, I was superficially interested in this issue before, so there was a basis for perception.
                      You do not need to write yourself, but in co-authorship))) As a lawyer, I often write both myself and check the documents of colleagues (sometimes these are whole compositions). And often this is extremely useful, it is difficult to see flaws in your text or "remember" that you forgot something important. And a fresh look always helps.
            2. Kote Pan Kokhanka
              Kote Pan Kokhanka 28 August 2020 13: 35 New
              +2
              I am afraid to earn a "third star for my unctuousness", but I think it is necessary to add Michael "the master of the Trilobites" to the list of distinguished Authors. Thus, it is subtle to hint to him that he is slightly relaxed, and we are tired of waiting for his works on the pages of VO!
              Regards, Vlad!
              1. Trilobite Master
                Trilobite Master 28 August 2020 15: 05 New
                +3
                Vlad, thank you. hi
                But as an author at VO, I ended my career, finally moving into the category of critics. A sort of "Furious Vissarion". smile
                1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
                  Kote Pan Kokhanka 28 August 2020 15: 09 New
                  +2
                  Quote: Trilobite Master
                  Vlad, thank you. hi
                  But as an author at VO, I ended my career, finally moving into the category of critics. A sort of "Furious Vissarion". smile

                  It's a pity, but there is a saying "never say - never" !!! good hi
                  1. Trilobite Master
                    Trilobite Master 28 August 2020 15: 19 New
                    +2
                    I don't even know such a word - never. smile Too much obligation. smile
                    1. 3x3zsave
                      3x3zsave 28 August 2020 18: 09 New
                      +3
                      "The older I get, the less often I say the words" always "and" never "(C)
                  2. 3x3zsave
                    3x3zsave 28 August 2020 18: 50 New
                    +2
                    This is not a saying, this is the name of one of the Bond films.
                2. 3x3zsave
                  3x3zsave 28 August 2020 18: 25 New
                  +3
                  The resource loses one of the best authors. However, it is natural.
              2. 3x3zsave
                3x3zsave 28 August 2020 18: 57 New
                +3
                We are so "unctuous" here ... There are a lot of critics, much less!
        2. Edward Vashchenko
          28 August 2020 12: 09 New
          +3
          Dmitry,
          it is addictive, really.
          By the way. When I was writing my dissertation and "scratching" historiography for the XNUMXth century, I noticed that I began to speak and write as in the XNUMXth century. laughing
          1. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave 28 August 2020 12: 46 New
            +5
            that he began to speak and write as in the XNUMXth century.
            "The sun is melting, the winter crops are growing" (C) laughing
            Thanks for the article, Edward!
          2. rich
            rich 28 August 2020 14: 14 New
            +2
            Where did the interest come from? I twice - in 81 years as a conscript soldier and in the late 80s already an officer was lucky enough to take part in the excavation of Parthian Nissa. Naturally, archaeologists and students-historians dug, and we were attracted as the guard of the expeditionary town and auxiliary workers. But how interesting it was! Now I watched the video that I posted Trilobite Master - I remembered ... although more than thirty years have passed
            1. Edward Vashchenko
              28 August 2020 15: 19 New
              +2
              Strong!!! very much good
  5. Undecim
    Undecim 28 August 2020 07: 46 New
    10
    Thus, taking into account the scarce data of the sources, it can be assumed that in the XNUMXth-XNUMXth centuries the Slavs used a strong large shield, the size of which may have varied. For the most part, these were primitive shields of their own production within the clan community, most likely, as "simple" as the shields of the Franks described by Agathius of Myrene. Their severity and intolerance can be explained by the low level of technology, when, perhaps, whole boards were used for the manufacture.
    The hypothesis about the "heaviness and intolerance of shields" is in complete contradiction with the tactics of combat described by the author in the previous article.
    The reference to the level of technology also does not look convincing in this case. The Zulu technology is also not space technology, but the shields are light and easily portable.
    1. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave 28 August 2020 08: 24 New
      +5
      but the shields are lightweight and easily portable.
      I think the buffalo skin shield is still somewhat lighter than a wooden one of the same size.
      1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
        Kote Pan Kokhanka 28 August 2020 16: 00 New
        +1
        Quote: 3x3zsave
        but the shields are lightweight and easily portable.
        I think the buffalo skin shield is still somewhat lighter than a wooden one of the same size.

        It depends on what tree!
        From linden and willow - light. Despite the mention in our epics about the "oak shield" I doubt their appropriateness.
        hi
        1. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 28 August 2020 16: 23 New
          +2
          And from the balsa, what light! laughing
          1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
            Kote Pan Kokhanka 28 August 2020 18: 25 New
            +2
            Quote: 3x3zsave
            And from the balsa, what light! laughing

            A hunting bow replica pierces a half-inch pine plank.
            The sporty compound bow strikes through an inch.
            Combinations of hard (outer) deciduous wood with soft (inner) coniferous in half a centimeter each - does not hit through the wrong one or the other. They combined ash, willow, birch with pine, fir and spruce. They put the truth on PVA-joiner glue. The fish was too lazy to cook.
            After that, they cut the shields with a replica of a battle ax. All the shields held across the blow, along with coniferous wood. Birch split in half on the second blow. The hardwood board lasted the longest, but it was also the heaviest.
            Glued all showed themselves well. Best of all is willow with pine. Lastly, they tried to poke the shields with a pitchfork. Gone when they broke two of the three prongs.
            Although I must admit, not one failed to make a practical board half a centimeter thick with one ax without a saw.
            As a result, PVA glue was recognized as life-giving, and the experiment was not successful.
            1. 3x3zsave
              3x3zsave 28 August 2020 18: 37 New
              +2
              Hmmm, you lazy! Shields can also be composite. I knew a maniac. I assembled a multi-layer shield from hand-planed veneer, glued with bone glue. From the PM, from 50 meters, well, somehow about nothing ...
            2. 3x3zsave
              3x3zsave 28 August 2020 20: 18 New
              +2
              It remains to ask what shields the Araucanians had, who opposed (this is very mildly and quasi-tolerant) everyone! From the Incas to the late Spaniards.
    2. Catfish
      Catfish 28 August 2020 08: 24 New
      +6
      So the Zulu shields were made of skins stretched over a frame, and I read somewhere that they were almost reed. so of course they were light.
      Good morning, Vik Nikolaevich hi , I mean "not in the sense of arguing, but to get involved in the conversation."
      1. Undecim
        Undecim 28 August 2020 09: 30 New
        +9
        So the Zulu shields were made of skins stretched over a frame, and I read somewhere that they were almost reed. so of course they were light.
        Naturally, local specifics should be taken into account when selecting the material.

        Tree bark shield. Found in England (Leicester) in 2015. III - IV century BC.
        And the Slavs also had skins.
    3. Engineer
      Engineer 28 August 2020 10: 43 New
      +4
      This is not a hypothesis
      This is a narrative from Mauritius
      Each is armed with two small spears, some also have shields, strong but difficult to carry (from place to place)

      We cannot ignore him.
      The description of the tactics of the Slavs is based on the same source
      So, they carried it around despite the inconvenience. The Romans fought with scutum in the German forests. Having heavy equipment as well.
      By the way, I think that the Slavs most likely had both large and small shields.
      1. Undecim
        Undecim 28 August 2020 11: 01 New
        +5
        This is a narrative from Mauritius
        However, it is not worthwhile to elevate a narrative to an absolute, because narratives have problems with objectivity.
        1. Engineer
          Engineer 28 August 2020 11: 03 New
          +5
          Do not be.
          But this is the case when we have quite a decent narrative, which has been repeatedly verified by many generations of researchers.
          1. Undecim
            Undecim 28 August 2020 11: 11 New
            +5
            quite a decent narrative, repeatedly verified by many generations of researchers
            I have a very respectful attitude to the work of many generations of researchers, but in relation to the Slavic shields of the period under review, a big question arises about the verification of the Mauritian narrative. How did this procedure take place, even if objects that can presumably be classified as fragments of Slavic shields date no earlier than the XNUMXth-XNUMXth centuries.
            1. Engineer
              Engineer 28 August 2020 11: 17 New
              +4
              Impossible 100% verification. What can be checked is checked. Where Mauritius can be checked, it "beats" quite well. This means that the source is trustworthy as a whole. It's another matter if obvious insertions, references, copies of previous writers are found. But in our case this is not.
              Once again, with a large shield, you can fight in the mountains and in the swamps and forests. Roman legions showed it
              Not very convenient, no doubt. But if there is practically no other protective equipment, then a large shield no longer looks illogical.
              1. Undecim
                Undecim 28 August 2020 11: 24 New
                +7
                Returning to my first comment, I want to remind you that I had doubts not about the size, but about the "severity and intolerance."
                1. Engineer
                  Engineer 28 August 2020 11: 29 New
                  +4
                  The Romans of the early empire had just a "heavy and intolerable" shield - up to 10 kg. Modern historians at first did not really believe until they found whole samples. This is if you fall into comparativism)
                  According to the Slavs, the main enemy in the era of Mauritius is the Avars and the Byzantines. These enemies have a lot of archers. Composite bows. They shoot great. A large, durable and therefore inevitably heavy shield in such a situation is a matter of life and death.
                  1. Liam
                    Liam 28 August 2020 11: 44 New
                    0
                    Oplons weighed 9-10 kg. 6-7 vdne
                    1. Engineer
                      Engineer 28 August 2020 12: 01 New
                      0
                      Peter Connolly
                      Several years ago I made an exact replica of the Fayum shield, which weighed just over 10 kg. This weight was recognized as completely incredible on the grounds that no one would be able to handle such a heavy shield. However, in Doncaster, the remains of a shield were recently discovered, the reconstruction of which turned out to be about the same weight.
                      1. Liam
                        Liam 28 August 2020 12: 20 New
                        0
                        This weight is the standard for the shields of heavy infantry that fought in the ranks of all nations.
                        The question is whether the Slavs of that era fought in this way. Since the author has no reliable data about how they fought, you can fantasize for a long time about the type and weight of the shields.
                        PySy.Fight in the ranks of heavy infantry is aerobatics at that time, available only to highly organized "civilizations". Heavy shields made sense only with this type of system. Therefore, this is definitely not a variant of the Slavs of that period. So this kind of shields can be swept aside with a high degree of probability. The only more or less reliable way to indirectly understand something is to look at how the Byzantines' weapons, who fought with And they marked the transition from heavy Roman legionary shields to lighter and more "mobile".
                      2. Engineer
                        Engineer 28 August 2020 12: 26 New
                        0
                        Heavy shields made sense only with this type of formation.

                        I wrote my opinion on the need for large shields. It coincides with the opinion of the author of the article. No strong big shield - end up like Shanyu Mode dad
                        .
                        The only more or less reliable way to indirectly understand something is to look at how the Byzantines' weapons, who fought with them, were eco-friendly, and they have noted the transition from heavy Roman legionary shields to lighter and more mobile ones.

                        There is a universal trend - armor is being improved - the shield is decreasing.
                        The Slavs have no armor. And you need to fight. The big shield is not so much evolution as the answer - palliative
                      3. Liam
                        Liam 28 August 2020 12: 42 New
                        -1
                        Quote: Engineer

                        I wrote my opinion on the need for large shields

                        Write another opinion on the role of bows and arrows of that period, how much they were used, what efficiency was, what penetrating ability, from what distances, what role they played in battles of that period, what shield of what size and weight was required to stop the arrow, etc., etc. And then your opinion will take on more reliable forms.
                        PySy. Is there a change in the size and weight of the shield among peoples who fought with, for example, the Mongols, who used bows en masse and as the main weapon?

                        Quote: Engineer
                        universal trend - armor is being improved - the shield is decreasing.

                        The Romans improved their armor for a thousand years, but the shields did not reduce. 10 kg as it was and remained.

                        Quote: Engineer
                        The Slavs have no armor. And you need to fight.

                        Few had them at that time and earlier, but not all had heavy shields.
                      4. Engineer
                        Engineer 28 August 2020 13: 09 New
                        -1
                        Write another opinion on the role of bows and arrows of that period, how much they were used, what efficiency was, what penetrating ability, from what distances, what role they played in battles of that period, what shield of what size and weight was required to stop the arrow, etc., etc. And then your opinion will take on more reliable forms.

                        It seemed to me that the answers to most of these questions are generally known to anyone who is even a little familiar with the subject.
                        Archers at that time played a huge role and were armed with compound bows with great taot and destructive power.
                        Today's archers go into battle dressed in carapace, with knee-length greaves. On the right side they have arrows hanging, on the left - a sword. (13) Among them there are those who have a spear, and [on a belt] behind their shoulders - a short shield without a handle, with which they can cover their face and neck. (14) They are excellent riders and can easily draw a bow at full speed and shoot arrows in both directions, both at the enemy fleeing from them and at the pursuing them. (15) They raise the bow to the forehead, and pull the bowstring to the right ear, which is why the arrow is launched with such power that it always strikes the one it hits, and neither the shield nor the shell can ward off its swift blow.

                        Does the quote sound familiar?
                        There is an exaggeration here, but the great historian very correctly conveyed the essence.
                        Among the Avras, every warrior had a bow.
                        The Romans improved their armor for a thousand years, but the shields did not reduce. 10 kg as it was and remained.

                        You don't like classics.) Decreased among the Romans
                        Reconstructions of a rectangular scutum, made on the basis of a shield from Dura Europos, with the addition of bronze fittings and an iron umbon, weigh 5,5 kg. If the shield thickened in the middle, the weight should have reached 7,5 kg.

                        Few had them at that time and earlier, but not all had heavy shields.

                        Who has little armor? Avars or Byzantines?
                        The Germans are not very, but still more than the Slavs. And their shields are often quite large.
                        The Slavs have a forced extreme.
                      5. Liam
                        Liam 28 August 2020 13: 42 New
                        -1
                        Quote: Engineer
                        The Slavs have a forced extreme.

                        The charm of discussions about the Slavs of this era, that everyone can fantasize whatever he wants to the best of his education and "take away" the opponent with any quote he likes in isolation from the era and geography. From the Zulus to the Romans in general). However, the words of Mauritius that the shield was "heavy "- expand any horizons. What by this Mauritius understood what sources he had, how many of these shields he saw, with what and with whom he compared, this is a great mystery.
                        And if you go down to the sinful earth, then it is logical to assume that, unlike the Romans, whose weapons were more or less standardized and you can still discuss something, the Slavs of that era could not have anything like this a priori, no one gave out TTZ on TTX weapons to a village craftsman and He riveted shields according to his intelligence and abilities. Nuts grew nearby, made of walnut, no, he sculpted from what he was. Alyosha was 180 in height and endowed with a heroic strength - he had a shield meter by meter and 10 kg of weight. And Paphnutiy weighed 50 kg and Alyosha reached the navel, and a shield was made for him. Two times less. So think about which of these shields Mauritius caught the eye, if caught. Well, or archaeologists
                      6. Engineer
                        Engineer 28 August 2020 13: 50 New
                        0
                        The beauty of discussions about the Slavs of this era is that everyone can fantasize anything they want to the best of their education and "drive away" the opponent with a forehead with a quote he liked, divorced from the era and geography.

                        If this is about my answer, then it's just ugly.
                        And if they descend to the sinful earth, then it is logical to assume that, unlike the Romans, whose weapons were more or less standardized and it is possible to discuss something else, the Slavs of that era could not have anything like this a priori

                        This is a question of attitudes towards sources, each of which is worth its weight in gold.
                        Mauritius wrote what he wrote. The expediency of "strong" and relatively large shields for the Slavs, I consider justified. Doubt about the expediency of "hard-to-bear" shields, I consider unfounded due to the sheer subjectivity of this characteristic and here I am ready to agree with your conclusion
                      7. Liam
                        Liam 28 August 2020 13: 56 New
                        0
                        Quote: Engineer
                        If this is about my answer

                        No, this applies to anyone writing in these threads, including me. Any topic as a source have a couple of phrases (at best) of which thread of the Byzantine chronicler. The rest is the imagination of any of those who write here starting with the author.
                      8. Engineer
                        Engineer 28 August 2020 14: 06 New
                        +1
                        OK. Thanks for the disc
                        Without the Octopus, I rarely manage to cheer)
                      9. Liam
                        Liam 28 August 2020 14: 12 New
                        -1
                        ))) Try it with Cherry Nine.
                        Concluding the topic. Regardless of the level of development, all peoples were endowed with practicality and common sense. And the weapon was chosen for a reason, but on the ways in which they fought, from tactics in general. gladius and a shield of a certain type and size. and no bows) and so on and so on.
                        Since the result of the previous article on the tactics of the Slavs was - and fig knows how they fought in fact, then the result of the discussion of weapons cannot be otherwise)
  6. Undecim
    Undecim 28 August 2020 11: 45 New
    +5
    If you fight "correctly", then everything is logical. However, the author in previous articles, in accordance with the narrative of Mauritius again, argued that the Slavs did not conduct "correct" hostilities at that time, but preferred to ambush in hard-to-reach places, crossings and other defiles, and in case of failure they fled wherever. Agree that with such a tactic, a "difficult to bear" shield is not the best solution.
    1. Engineer
      Engineer 28 August 2020 11: 51 New
      +3
      It's all in comparison.
      To an armored Byzantine, the Slavic shield may seem "difficult to bear". He was not used to that. For four hundred years he has not been a "mariev mule". And the Slavs have no armor and light spears. And a habit.
      Agree that with such a tactic, a "difficult to bear" shield is not the best solution.

      There are no alternatives. Even though you "wrong" fight with the arrows of the enemy you will face Without him, you will get an arrow and perish. If the shield is large, but light, then you will receive an arrow through it. And if they scattered, then they threw the shields. It doesn't matter what size they are.
      1. Undecim
        Undecim 28 August 2020 12: 07 New
        +5
        Then it is worth deciding what we will consider "difficult to bear" weight. It is unlikely that even for an "armored Byzantine" a shield weighing 5-6 kg will seem "difficult to bear".
      2. Engineer
        Engineer 28 August 2020 12: 16 New
        +2
        And here we finally go into the area of ​​speculation. The mass of the Slavic shield is not known. And we will never know what the Byzantines of the end of the 6th century thought about the portability of 5-6-8-10 kg.
        Difficult - not difficult to define by habit
        An American WWII soldier carried 16 kg of equipment.
        And if he was given 30 kg of British PMV infantry equipment? Would he find it "difficult to bear"? Rather, he would have no words at all))
        But the narrative of Mauritius remains. "Difficult to carry". And point)
      3. Undecim
        Undecim 28 August 2020 12: 26 New
        +5
        But the narrative of Mauritius remains.
        Of course it does. Written with a pen ...
  7. Edward Vashchenko
    28 August 2020 12: 13 New
    +4
    I will support. In the article, by the way, he wrote about this that such shields provided serious protection from arrows, along with shelters, and it was not a pity to leave him.
    And yet, Procopius was a military man, he knew what he was writing about.
  • Kote Pan Kokhanka
    Kote Pan Kokhanka 28 August 2020 16: 05 New
    +1
    The growth shield is the forerunner of the presence of the order!
    And here guesses begin. Despite Romeev's admiration for the actions of the Slavs from ambushes. Analysis of the wars of the Avars and Byzantium assumes that the Slavs have infantry! And this is again a confirmation of the "big shield".
  • Ryaruav
    Ryaruav 28 August 2020 08: 48 New
    +4
    great article, but unfortunately it is for narrow specialists
    1. Edward Vashchenko
      28 August 2020 11: 20 New
      +4
      Thanks, I tried to comb my hair as hard as possible.
      But also not to lose the scientific essence.
      For specialists: first there would be a detailed historiography, then an analysis of sources, something like this
      hi
      1. Ryaruav
        Ryaruav 28 August 2020 11: 32 New
        +4
        Edward you talk about carnations on ancient shields with Klim Zhukov (still in Thailand), I myself am engaged in the history of military equipment of the first and second, but I respect Medeevists very much and I consider your research, reconstruction an important matter in understanding the history of our people and the peoples with whom we are fought and were friends the story is such a rich book, but it's a pity that very few people read it
        1. Hantengri
          Hantengri 28 August 2020 12: 31 New
          +1
          Quote: Ryaruav
          with klim zhukov (still in thailand)

          No longer.
          1. Ryaruav
            Ryaruav 28 August 2020 12: 36 New
            +2
            thanks for the news, one of the most adequate people in our crazy country, but he shouldn't get into the naval theme there he is a seal
      2. Pane Kohanku
        Pane Kohanku 28 August 2020 11: 54 New
        +4
        Umbons and fastening shields from the graves of the Lombards. Castel Trozino

        Hello! drinks Edward, according to ancient finds! The Hermitage has exhibitions of Caucasian weapons and archaeological finds. It is necessary to go up to the second floor, and from it go down again to the first one by one of the stairs. I was looking for the premises I was looking for using a free card, which are distributed in the Hermitage. yes
        So, earlier (in the spring of 2018) there were expositions of the Huns and other "barbarians" there. Slavs .. I don't remember! Remains of swords, horse harness, umbons, etc. - even the commander's camp chair. Nearby is the hall of eastern weapons - there is generally a shine. The most important thing is that it is not crowded there. Take it off - I don't want to! fellow I hope these expositions remained there ... what The exposition of Ancient Rus is on the third, but you already know that. drinks There is even a vertebra with a stuck arrowhead in the display case ... belay
        I shot a lot there .. but I seem to have lost most of the photo, if not all ... recourse
        1. Ryaruav
          Ryaruav 28 August 2020 12: 11 New
          0
          dear, if in the Middle Ages all absolutely all swords found are Germanic swords cannot be ancient Russian swords for a simple reason then they did not discover the Ural ore
        2. Edward Vashchenko
          28 August 2020 12: 26 New
          +2
          Glad to hear that!!!!
          Of course, there are no Slavs of this period.
          I myself was in the Hermitage in "these parts" last year, a renewed exposition. Just great!
          I advise everything.
          I photographed everything, my hand was already tired. One of the umbons in the photo, from there - Bavarian.
          I visit the State Hermitage every two years.
          I am very glad that they so well formalized the period of the "Great Nations Migration" and up to the XNUMXth century. Moreover, they put up (finally !!!!!) the captured weapons that we got in the Second World War.
          And then after the 2005 exhibition, was it hidden back in the storerooms.
          The Hermitage is great, but the Museum of "casts and copies" them. Having such wealth, Pushkin is afraid to exhibit his part, however, like many other things.
          Prague culture is in the State Historical Museum, but again very little.
          And again: storerooms, for example, "Ant treasures". Why is there no permanent exhibition.
          A modest exhibition for the 1150th anniversary of Russia - all the swords were put up, and I could hardly tear myself away from them, and again to the storerooms ...
          1. Engineer
            Engineer 28 August 2020 12: 38 New
            +2
            Perhaps (I emphasize perhaps) a Slavic sword of the 5th-6th centuries from the area of ​​the Kolochin culture.

            Either Slavs or Balts. The sword is possible from the burial For the Slavs, atypical, but cannot be completely ignored
            1. The comment was deleted.
              1. The comment was deleted.
            2. Edward Vashchenko
              28 August 2020 13: 35 New
              +3
              Thank you for the information, I'll take it into account. These Slavic-Baltic border areas are full of such special finds.
              The article about swords is ready, but I'll take it into account.
              By the way, this is a fairly understandable Hun type. There is one exam in the GE, and 4 exam in the State Historical Museum.
              Here is a slanting brother, a find of the XNUMXth-XNUMXth centuries. western coast of the North Caucasus:
              1. Engineer
                Engineer 28 August 2020 13: 56 New
                +3
                The crosshairs are clearly polychrome. Huns - Bulgarians, Germans, Sarmatians. The blade is "universal". Remains of Roman Spath blades and Parthian swords in Vestimina look the same. The picture does not beat on the search. Not knowing the background, but only the territory, I would bet on the Sarmatians.
            3. Mihaylov
              Mihaylov 28 August 2020 14: 19 New
              +2
              Quote: Engineer
              Either Slavs or Balts. The sword is possible from the burial For the Slavs, atypical, but cannot be completely ignored

              It seems to me - Byzantines
              1. Engineer
                Engineer 28 August 2020 14: 35 New
                +3
                Well, according to the geography of discovery, it is definitely not Byzantine)
                I have no idea about the manufacturer. The crosshairs are too high. As if a rough (local?) Imitation of something like the "sword of Theodoric" The top has not survived
                1. Mihaylov
                  Mihaylov 28 August 2020 14: 41 New
                  +3
                  Quote: Engineer
                  Well, geography is definitely not Byzantine)
                  I have no idea about the manufacturer. The crosshairs are too high. As if a rough (local?) Imitation of something like the "sword of Theodoric"

                  I would nevertheless say that he is Byzantine in origin, and he could "emerge" anywhere, but it is quite possible that some kind of local "imitation".
                  1. Engineer
                    Engineer 28 August 2020 15: 08 New
                    +3
                    Never a specialist, but I bet on the Sarmatian influence

                    Blade shape. The right angle at the transition of the blade to the shank is a signature feature of the Gothic-Sarmatian swords according to Simonenko. Straight "bar" crosshairs ("boat" in plan) Fig. 4, although unusually high
                    1. Mihaylov
                      Mihaylov 28 August 2020 15: 30 New
                      +3
                      Quote: Engineer
                      The right angle at the transition of the blade to the shank is a trademark feature of the Gothic-Sarmatian swords according to Simonenko. Straight "bar" crosshairs ("boat" in plan) Fig. 4, although unusually high

                      Yes, I probably won't argue, I'm not an expert in weapons. The boat crosshairs are clearly gothic. The blade itself is similar to the Byzantine one, so I thought it was Byzantium.

                    2. Edward Vashchenko
                      28 August 2020 15: 35 New
                      +2
                      It seems to me that the Sarmatians were left behind by this period.
                      By the way, the presented sword from the State Historical Museum is listed there as Byzantine.
                      Sergei Mikhailov photographed a similar one in the Museum of Corinth, 7th century.
                      I think that the Byzantines quickly adopted someone else's weapons, including Sarmatian ones. The popular science work of V.A. Dmitrieva.
                      1. Mihaylov
                        Mihaylov 28 August 2020 15: 56 New
                        +3
                        Quote: Edward Vashchenko
                        similar photographed in the Museum of Corinth, 7th century.

                        Yes, I definitely remembered, here it is:

                        Dated to the 7th century.
                        Unfortunately, the photo is bad, but it is very uncomfortable, you can't crawl
                      2. Engineer
                        Engineer 28 August 2020 16: 04 New
                        +3
                        But the similarity with the Kartamyshev sword is minimal.
                        The crosshairs are completely different, narrowing strongly towards the point, which was most likely rounded.
                    3. Engineer
                      Engineer 28 August 2020 15: 57 New
                      +4
                      Remained just in the North Caucasus (Alans). And later the Alanic element can be traced in the Saltov culture. The cultural influence of the Sarmatians went beyond their own area
                      In general, these are similar "barbaric" swords that were found in vast areas in the era of the great migration of peoples and somewhat later
                      The Kolochin sword falls just at the junction of the eras when such swords began to be ousted in the Black Sea region by narrower broadswords brought from the east (although the Sarmatians had narrow swords even earlier, along with wider forms.)
                      I think that the Byzantines quickly adopted someone else's weapons, including Sarmatian ones. The popular science work of V.A. Dmitrieva.

                      Undoubtedly, as well as the opposite influence.
                    4. Liam
                      Liam 28 August 2020 16: 10 New
                      0
                      I have read this post of yours, and the rest are above. What kind of sword is it, whose, when and from where, and it remained an absolute secret ... it could have been this way and that both with those and others and earlier and later.
                    5. Edward Vashchenko
                      28 August 2020 16: 49 New
                      +4
                      This is the problem, that there is no certainty. Finds are extremely rare, cultures are ambiguous.
                      Of course there are classifications, but the basis is extremely scarce material.
                      on the classifications of weapons in subsequent articles.
                      Hence, professional research always uses the words: presumably, in our opinion, as it appears.
                    6. Mihaylov
                      Mihaylov 28 August 2020 16: 59 New
                      +2
                      Quote: Edward Vashchenko
                      This is the problem, that there is no certainty. Finds are extremely rare, cultures are ambiguous.
                      Of course there are classifications, but the basis is extremely scarce material.

                      Yes, and a normal classification can only be made on some representative material, and for this period the finds are most often single.
                      "Therefore, is there life on Mars, is there life on Mars - this is a question still unknown to science"
                      And as you know, only fools have answers to all questions
                    7. Liam
                      Liam 28 August 2020 18: 50 New
                      -1
                      Quote: Mihaylov
                      And as you know, only fools have answers to all questions

                      The lack of answers to almost all of the questions is hardly different.
                  2. Liam
                    Liam 28 August 2020 18: 45 New
                    -1
                    I understand the problem of the lack of a relevant number and types of sources and that this is your “trouble”, not “fault.” Therefore, criticism is more about formal reasons, not the essence. that for example there were shields, in the same way there is no reason to argue otherwise. Disputes can be purely sporting in nature, so that it would be time to kill something on the site.
                    The cultures are ambiguous (and so numerous), most likely precisely because each village (and each blacksmith / artisan) was its own director, and each village had its own culture. Therefore, finding even a cultural stratum rich in repertoire in one place will not allow making any reasonable conclusions about the whole huge variety called Slavic tribes, which were scattered over vast territories, with different natural resources and were among themselves at different stages of economic and social development.
                    It makes more sense, instead of generalizations throughout the Slavic world, to deal only with those specific tribes which these findings directly concern
                2. Engineer
                  Engineer 28 August 2020 17: 05 New
                  +2
                  The sword from Kartamyshevo was not found in the directly cultural layers, but was thrown out with an excavator bucket. Near the village of Kolochin culture. Either the Slavs or the Balts. I wrote about uncertainties from the very beginning
                  Who is interested in reading here:
                  http://millitarch.ru/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/Prestigious_arms_and_armor_of_the_5-6_ce.pdf
                3. Mihaylov
                  Mihaylov 28 August 2020 17: 18 New
                  +2
                  Quote: Engineer
                  The sword from Kartamyshevo was not found in the directly cultural layers, but was thrown out with an excavator bucket.

                  As far as I know, such finds are very difficult to date.
                  Thanks for the article, I will read it the other day.
                4. Engineer
                  Engineer 28 August 2020 17: 26 New
                  +1
                  Estimated dating was based on a single marker - box-shaped crosshairs. Looking for dated counterparts
              2. Liam
                Liam 28 August 2020 18: 51 New
                -1
                Therefore, it makes no sense to cheer too much with such introductory
              3. Engineer
                Engineer 28 August 2020 19: 11 New
                0
                Holyvar was not implied from the word at all
                It's just that if we are talking about swords among the Slavs, then it is worth mentioning this find. Even without conclusions
              4. Mihaylov
                Mihaylov 31 August 2020 16: 35 New
                0
                Quote: Engineer
                It's just that if we are talking about swords among the Slavs, then it is worth mentioning this find. Even without conclusions

                I read the above article by Radyush: it is interesting, but the sword is frankly "attracted" to the Slavs, more precisely, the find comes from the territory supposedly inhabited at that time by Slavic tribes. The sword does not lend itself to an exact dating, as the article says, dated exclusively by analogies, the distribution area of ​​such swords was very wide. The fact that such a sword could get to the Slavs - yes, of course it could, in any way. Where was it made? it is doubtful that in the Balto-Slavic area.
              5. Engineer
                Engineer 31 August 2020 18: 36 New
                0
                He will not be attracted to anyone.
                All reservations are made by me and the authors of the collection of articles
                The question of where it was made is not very important to someone. The Scandinavians did not produce "ulfberts", but they used them, that is, they were armed with them. Most of their finds of swords are imported.
                The Slavic (Baltic) version of the use of the sword is no worse than the German or Alanian, because the latter have such finds, but they are too far away.
  • Pane Kohanku
    Pane Kohanku 28 August 2020 12: 46 New
    +3
    And again: storerooms, for example, "Ant treasures". Why is there no permanent exhibition.
    A modest exhibition for the 1150th anniversary of Russia - all the swords were put up, and I could hardly tear myself away from them, and again to the storerooms ...

    In Ancient Russia, there are many objects in Staraya Ladoga - a separate building outside the fortress (lighting only fails), and in Izborsk there is just a klondike. But this is already, basically, the Rurik period! hi
    Perhaps there is something in Izvara, but I doubt it ... what I was there the weekend before last, walked around the park, but did not go inside Roerich's house. In the Kingisepp Museum, all items have been going on since the 14th century - since the construction of the Yam fortress. soldier
    By the way, Eduard, EMNIP, in St. Petersburg and the Leningrad region there are no items on display that could be uniquely associated with the Vikings. If so, correct it! drinks
    1. Edward Vashchenko
      28 August 2020 13: 09 New
      +2
      By the way, Eduard, EMNIP, in St. Petersburg and the Leningrad region there are no items on display that could be uniquely associated with the Vikings. If so, correct it!

      Just a question, but puzzled me.
      In the Art Museum there is a sword of the XNUMXth century.
      1. Pane Kohanku
        Pane Kohanku 28 August 2020 13: 39 New
        +3
        In the Art Museum there is a sword of the XNUMXth century.

        So I looked through it! belay
        Just a question, but puzzled me.

        The military affairs of the ancient Slavs "are also simple", if you do not think about it, and so, present pictures from a history textbook. wink And if you give literate material for reading, the picture changes! drinks
        I accidentally thought ... About presence-absence ..request
        1. Edward Vashchenko
          28 August 2020 15: 26 New
          +2
          Another question,
          Varangians, Russia, Slavs ...
          but I better keep quiet for now, step by step.
          Although, the same Gnezdovo, whose finds?
          ... a complex topic, a huge historiography
          Zhukov mentioned here, somehow, reasonably noted that swords appear on the territory of the Eastern Slavs with the Varangians, and before that they did not. Which is archaeologically true.
          About swords and metallurgy in two articles))))
        2. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 28 August 2020 16: 56 New
          +2
          So I looked through it!
          You have not looked at it, it is simply not on display.
          1. Pane Kohanku
            Pane Kohanku 30 August 2020 19: 43 New
            +3
            You have not looked at it, it is simply not on display.

            You see, wonderful people work there, I had the honor to be familiar. love But the bureaucracy, sir ... request it took me over a month to photograph twenty pages! But those "who live there" find it easier. Those who do not crawl out of the archive come to the reading room immediately with laptops, and write, write .... As if he himself was a witness and a participant! drinks But when you hold in your hands the translation of Nagant's letters, executed by "Lieutenant N ...", you understand that this is really a treasure! good
  • Ryaruav
    Ryaruav 28 August 2020 13: 07 New
    +1
    it is very interesting about the Huns how they defeated northern China before the great Temuchin (these great Chinese who allegedly invented gunpowder are nonsense are always forever beaten) the great migration of peoples is a reality this is of interest Klim Sanych hit the late Middle Ages almost in modern times and why you are not with the goblin ?
    1. Engineer
      Engineer 28 August 2020 13: 11 New
      +2
      The answer is obvious if you remember how the same Avars were armed in the 6th century. Pathetic fugitives from the Turks.
      Spoiler alert: very cool. ))
  • 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 28 August 2020 12: 55 New
    +5
    You haven't read Edward's first publications on this resource! There was such an academic clerk that only a few "lived" to the list of sources! wassat
    1. Edward Vashchenko
      28 August 2020 13: 34 New
      +4
      Yeah, tell me)))
      good good good
    2. Mihaylov
      Mihaylov 28 August 2020 14: 21 New
      +4
      Quote: 3x3zsave
      that few people "lived" to the list of sources!

      Natural selection! wassat
      1. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 28 August 2020 16: 12 New
        +5
        Sergei hi , it was really hard for a layman to read, fortunately Edward heeded our requests and reduced the degree of academicism to an acceptable level.
        1. Mihaylov
          Mihaylov 28 August 2020 17: 27 New
          +1
          Quote: 3x3zsave
          Edward heeded our requests and reduced the degree of academicism to an acceptable level.

          Took into account, so to speak, criticism of workers laughing
          1. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave 28 August 2020 17: 35 New
            +2
            We are fighters of the invisible front, we do not write ourselves and do not give to others! laughing
            1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
              Kote Pan Kokhanka 28 August 2020 21: 40 New
              +1
              Anton! Now I caught an interesting thing on a branch!

              ATTENTION! ERROR DETECTED
              Contributor does not have access to view articles from this section.

              Have you met someone like that?
              1. 3x3zsave
                3x3zsave 28 August 2020 21: 50 New
                +2
                Not yet. I'll catch it, I'll write to Smirnov, won't answer, I'll write a blasphemy to the resources involved, won't answer, I'll write to Roskomnadzor ...
          2. Kote Pan Kokhanka
            Kote Pan Kokhanka 28 August 2020 22: 06 New
            +1
            Quote: Mihaylov
            Quote: 3x3zsave
            Edward heeded our requests and reduced the degree of academicism to an acceptable level.

            Took into account, so to speak, criticism of workers laughing

            Dear Sergey!
            The specificity of VO is the presence of several parties that feed on various branches of the site. At the same time, they have their own worldview, interests, political and socio-economic and even technical views. You can put up with something (for example, in my case with the Communists), with others there is an irreconcilable struggle (false historians of all stripes). Despite the fame, as it is not sad, the resource is slowly degrading recently. The circle of authors is inexorably decreasing. This is most noticeable on the history thread. So we ordinary people know them on our fingers, love them, cherish them, sometimes bite them with our comments, but unlike most resources, a number of Authors accompany their articles, and this is worth a lot! Moreover, the difference between the history branch is the highest level of comments! In some cases, not inferior to the articles themselves!
            For example, today Rich and VikNik decorated the article with such an addition that I scored on the report and furtively finished reading it at work !!!
            Well, somewhere like that!
            Although I forgot to add, Eduard (the author of the above article) refined it with his drawings!
            Regards, Vlad!
  • Kote Pan Kokhanka
    Kote Pan Kokhanka 28 August 2020 16: 09 New
    +3
    Quote: Ryaruav
    great article, but unfortunately it is for narrow specialists
    and this is good!!!
  • Alecsandr
    Alecsandr 28 August 2020 09: 05 New
    +5
    An interesting informative article. Thanks to the author it was helpful to read
  • A. Privalov
    A. Privalov 28 August 2020 10: 30 New
    +6
    And the word "shield", or Czech "štit", thus, goes back to the Celtic sceitos (Shakhmatov A.A.).

    I recall an old joke.

    Lisp tour guide:
    - Monument to Minin and Pozassky. Minin desit metz, and Pozassky scite. Not "scith" in the sense of mocitsa, but "scith" in the sense of a scissor.
    1. rich
      rich 28 August 2020 15: 08 New
      +3
      Do you know such an anecdote? smile
      An Israeli tourist asks a guide in Moscow - Why do you have Moshe Dayan on horseback?
      Guide- This is a monument not to Moshe Dayan but to Mikhail Kutuzov
      Tourist - strange? And so similar
      1. A. Privalov
        A. Privalov 28 August 2020 15: 19 New
        +5
        Well, of course I know!
        May the Moderators forgive me for the flood, I will tell you a real anecdote from 1974:

        - What was the name of the one-eyed Russian commander who defeated Napoleon? - Brezhnev asked Kosygin.
        - Kutuzov.
        - And the English one-eyed admiral?
        - Nelson.
        - And what is the name of this one-eyed Jew?
        - Dayan.
        - Why do we still have Marshal Grechko with two eyes?
  • Engineer
    Engineer 28 August 2020 10: 32 New
    +7
    Good article.
    The framework is defined. A balanced opinion. without excesses and fantasies. No hypercriticism.
    I did not notice the sloppiness of style in the presentation.
    What will critics say when they smashed the author's previous work as "unreadable"?
    1. Edward Vashchenko
      28 August 2020 11: 28 New
      +5
      Denis,
      thank you for your opinion.
      For this article I am preparing a small answer about the past text, but I did not insert it into the article about shields.
      1. Engineer
        Engineer 28 August 2020 11: 31 New
        +6
        We are waiting for new articles and wars in the comments)
    2. Liam
      Liam 28 August 2020 16: 21 New
      +2
      Quote: Engineer
      What will critics say when they smashed the author's previous work as "unreadable"?

      That criticism is more useful than praise
      1. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 28 August 2020 16: 42 New
        +4
        My respect, colleague! hi
        Criticism can be both negative and positive. The same Shpakovsky, I criticized more than once, however, as well as Vaschenko. I swore with Ryzhov in general (later, however, he apologized). Here, in my opinion, the main thing is that he will not fall into criticism, like the same "Mavrikij". By the way, I bought sliced ​​melon and ham (cut thinly), tomorrow I will write off about the taste impressions.
        1. Pane Kohanku
          Pane Kohanku 28 August 2020 16: 50 New
          +4
          tomorrow I'll write off about the taste impressions.

          Yeah, stop gram, don't forget, connoisseur ... lol otherwise you will not feel the very aestheticism of the moment. Or aesthetics ... what yes, however, if you stop gram - all the same, what to eat! wink drinks
          1. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave 28 August 2020 17: 03 New
            +3
            Envy silently! laughing
            "Now I don't even drink a glass,
            And I don't even eat soup in the dining room,
            Because I'll buy you a blouse
            Because I love you silly "
            I hope to meet Yulia, you promised.
            1. Pane Kohanku
              Pane Kohanku 30 August 2020 19: 54 New
              +3
              I hope to meet Yulia, you promised.

              Say, pinned me? wink
              1. 3x3zsave
                3x3zsave 30 August 2020 22: 02 New
                +2
                Not at all. "What is he to Hecuba, what is Hecuba to him?" (C)
                1. Pane Kohanku
                  Pane Kohanku 31 August 2020 10: 23 New
                  +2
                  Not at all. "What is he to Hecuba, what is Hecuba to him?"

                  who is this Hecuba? stop
                  1. 3x3zsave
                    3x3zsave 31 August 2020 10: 34 New
                    +2
                    See W. Shakespeare "Hamlet"
                    1. Pane Kohanku
                      Pane Kohanku 31 August 2020 10: 36 New
                      +3
                      See W. Shakespeare "Hamlet"

                      I only remember poor Yorick. what
                      1. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 31 August 2020 10: 46 New
                        +2
                        The phrase from the play that has become "winged" is used in different meanings. In this case, I meant, "what do they care about each other" (in the sense, me and the ladies)
                      2. Pane Kohanku
                        Pane Kohanku 31 August 2020 11: 02 New
                        +2
                        The phrase from the play that has become "winged" is used in different meanings. In this case, I meant, "what do they care about each other" (in the sense, me and the ladies)

                        yeah, but the phrase "Poor Yorick!" can be translated as: "The role of the jester is heavy and sullen!" wink
                      3. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 31 August 2020 11: 08 New
                        +2
                        Heavy and unsightly
                        The life of a court artist!
                      4. Pane Kohanku
                        Pane Kohanku 31 August 2020 11: 10 New
                        +2
                        Heavy and unsightly
                        The life of a court artist!

                        Yes Yes! You joke badly - and the head off your shoulders, but what's worse ... request
                      5. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 31 August 2020 11: 34 New
                        +2
                        "And the head rolled,
                        At the feet of the beautiful queen "
                      6. Pane Kohanku
                        Pane Kohanku 31 August 2020 11: 43 New
                        +3
                        And the head rolled

                        Yeah, like that, depending on how you joke! request
                      7. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 31 August 2020 12: 10 New
                        +3
                        "The rivers have cooled and the earth has cooled,
                        And they had a little bit of fuss at home,
                        This is the coronavirus in the city
                        And outside the city there is a plague, a plague, a plague! "
      2. Mihaylov
        Mihaylov 31 August 2020 16: 20 New
        +1
        Quote: Pan Kohanku
        who is this Hecuba?

        It's like Hector's mother.
        1. Pane Kohanku
          Pane Kohanku 31 August 2020 16: 23 New
          +1
          It's like Hector's mother.

          You and Anton just embarrassed me together ... belay I even pulled my head into my shoulders from my own ignorance ... laughing
  • Kote Pan Kokhanka
    Kote Pan Kokhanka 28 August 2020 22: 17 New
    +2
    Quote: Pan Kohanku
    tomorrow I'll write off about the taste impressions.

    Yeah, stop gram, don't forget, connoisseur ... lol otherwise you will not feel the very aestheticism of the moment. Or aesthetics ... what yes, however, if you stop gram - all the same, what to eat! wink drinks

    Nikolay, I had to take a good half liter and go and taste this mixture of Spanish-Uzbek cuisine! And then suddenly "come across"! Where Konstantin and I will look for "jamon" in the villages !!!!!!! laughing
    1. Pane Kohanku
      Pane Kohanku 30 August 2020 19: 44 New
      +4
      Where Konstantin and I will look for "jamon" in the villages!

      I will not speak for you, Vladislav, but Konstantin, not finding a ham, will go to the pond to see eighteen-year-old odalisques! wink fellow
      1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
        Kote Pan Kokhanka 30 August 2020 20: 16 New
        +2
        He will "dry" them or so "raw" !!!
        I don't believe it, Uncle Kostya is decent !!! soldier
  • Edward Vashchenko
    28 August 2020 16: 53 New
    +3
    By the way, I bought a sliced ​​melon and ham (cut thinly), tomorrow I will write off about the taste impressions.

    But this is just - relevant good
  • Liam
    Liam 28 August 2020 18: 29 New
    +2
    Pleasant hi But I am confident in the power of Mediterranean cuisine)
    1. Pane Kohanku
      Pane Kohanku 30 August 2020 19: 38 New
      +3
      But I am confident in the power of Mediterranean cuisine)

      I agree with you. drinks From the Greek, the gyros is more memorable, but as for the Italian - I have not actually tried Italian, but what is served in the St. Petersburg Italian network "Mama Roma" is very even. hi
  • Mihaylov
    Mihaylov 28 August 2020 11: 02 New
    +5
    Good afternoon, Edward!
    The question about the "severity and intolerance of the shields" among the Slavs: could not this message of Byzantine authors reflect in some hypertrophied form information about the siege shields of the Slavs? They repeatedly besieged Byzantine fortresses and could possibly have used some kind of "hard-to-bear shields" to protect against arrows and other throwing weapons, like medieval pavises?
    1. Edward Vashchenko
      28 August 2020 11: 29 New
      +4
      Sergei welcome!
      Perhaps anything is possible.
      But he tried to write closer to sources and historiography, without going into the field of reconstruction. laughing
  • Mihaylov
    Mihaylov 28 August 2020 11: 06 New
    +3
    Leontius, son of ant and taxiarch (centurion) Dabragez,

    And his mother was Novoseltsev? laughing
  • Hantengri
    Hantengri 28 August 2020 11: 15 New
    +5
    The reasoning that a shield with an umbilical and a binding was used both in combat with the use of throwing weapons and in hand-to-hand combat is completely correct, the absence of a pommel and shackle indicates that the shield was not used in foot combat is also permissible.

    I wonder what can prevent you from using a shield without a umbo and shackle in hand-to-hand combat? Yes, it will not be so durable, but why can't they, for some time, for lack of better, do everything the same as with a "technologically correct" shield?
    1. Engineer
      Engineer 28 August 2020 11: 38 New
      +6
      Umbon can catch a blade with fatal consequences for the blade. And adjust the face
      The tree itself does not hold well the blows of swords and axes.
      Among the Scandinavians, during the holmgang, the combatant was allowed to change the shield three times. That is, a wooden shield, even with an umbilicus and fittings, was an expendable material. Without umbo and shackles, respectively, in general nonsense
      1. Hantengri
        Hantengri 28 August 2020 12: 20 New
        +3
        Quote: Engineer

        Umbon can catch a blade with fatal consequences for the blade. And adjust the face

        I know.)) I disagree only about the fatal consequences. )) In addition, adjusting the face with the edge of the shield (even without the shackle) will be no worse.
        Quote: Engineer

        The tree itself does not hold well the blows of swords and axes.

        It all depends on the type of wood and the design of the shield. Although, it is unlikely that the Slavs at that time could afford something complicated.
        I agree about the ax. But caroling, or spata, in terms of destructive action, is far from an ax.
        In addition, in a real battle, in close combat, at first, they will try to plug you with spears, so that: a low-tech "piece of the fence" in your hands is still better than a bare belly.
        Quote: Engineer
        Among the Scandinavians, during the holmgang, the combatant was allowed to change the shield three times. That is, a wooden shield, even with an umbilicus and fittings, was an expendable material. Without umbo and shackles, respectively, in general nonsense

        By the way, the Scandinavian shield, like the Roman scutum of the early empire, had no binding. Both were upholstered, along the edge, with leather. But what a difference in strength! ))) After all, in comparison with the scutum, or the same Vedelian shield, what the Vikings used is the same "piece of the fence", albeit slightly tuned.
        1. Engineer
          Engineer 28 August 2020 12: 31 New
          +3
          Holmgang is primarily Carolingians. I still don't remember using axes in fights. From memory, only swords. The ax and so it is clear - "witch of the shield")
          By the way, the Scandinavian shield, like the Roman scutum of the early empire, had no binding. Both were upholstered, along the edge, with leather. But what a difference in strength!

          Everything is not so simple)
          To quote Connolly again:
          Polybius adds that such a shield had an iron umbo and iron padding along the top and bottom edges.
        2. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 28 August 2020 13: 14 New
          +4
          In addition, adjusting the face with the edge of the shield (even without the shackle) will be no worse.
          This is how I, once again, broke the bridge of my nose. It flew in with the edge of its own shield. This was the end of my reenactment.
          what the Vikings used is the same "piece of the fence", albeit slightly tweaked.
          So it is, "the linden of war."
      2. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 28 August 2020 13: 07 New
        +5
        Umbon can catch a blade with fatal consequences for the blade.
        With the thickness of the metal of the umbon being one and a half millimeters, indicated by the author, the consequences of a collision with a sword can be fatal for the hand holding the shield.
  • Mihaylov
    Mihaylov 28 August 2020 11: 41 New
    +5
    Considering the fact that the Slavs (some tribes) were quite successfully able to master the construction of siege equipment,

    Genuine examples of Slavic siege technology excavated by archaeologists in Izborsk: laughing

    1. Pane Kohanku
      Pane Kohanku 28 August 2020 16: 58 New
      +2
      Genuine examples of siege techniques of the Slavs excavated by archaeologists in Izborsk

      They stand near Lukovka and the course (on the right in the top photo). wink I was there on the first. The festival of reenactors was canceled this year. request Did you go to museums? there is a lot of medieval swagger. By the way, delicious sausages and cheeses are sold on the street in front of the fortress. good
      1. Mihaylov
        Mihaylov 28 August 2020 17: 02 New
        +2
        Quote: Pan Kohanku
        They stand near Lukovka and the course (on the right in the top photo).

        Greetings Nikolay,
        Yes, I took a picture there.
        Unfortunately, we did not go to the museum, we walked around the fortress for a long time, next time we go to the museum. In addition, visiting museums with family is an eternal problem.
        1. Pane Kohanku
          Pane Kohanku 30 August 2020 19: 53 New
          +2
          Unfortunately, we did not go to the museum, we walked around the fortress for a long time, next time we go to the museum. In addition, visiting museums with family is an eternal problem.

          Sergey, two museums are just a class - 1. a museum of archeology and, in fact, the Middle Ages, and 2. a museum of Izborsk, as a village. Izborsk, after the Civil retreat to free Estonia, and there lived quite a "Russian almost emigrants", with their own traditions. The last exposition is the "travel room of the 60s-70s", with a Soviet entourage, and even with songs on the radio! laughing But in a small hall dedicated to the Great Patriotic War, there are two rusty German helmets hanging on the walls. I personally told the staff that it would be desirable to move them to another room. soldier For the helmets are a sample of 1916, that is, finds from the First World War! request
          Plus the Seto Museum and the Painting Museum.
          It is a pity that the cafe on the square is almost always busy! The food there is extremely tasty ... drinks
      2. Kote Pan Kokhanka
        Kote Pan Kokhanka 28 August 2020 22: 24 New
        +1
        Quote: Pan Kohanku
        Genuine examples of siege techniques of the Slavs excavated by archaeologists in Izborsk

        They stand near Lukovka and the course (on the right in the top photo). wink I was there on the first. The festival of reenactors was canceled this year. request Did you go to museums? there is a lot of medieval swagger. By the way, delicious sausages and cheeses are sold on the street in front of the fortress. good

        laughing
        Nikolay Why don't you feed you in St. Petersburg? First Anton, he is talking about jamon, now you are talking about sausages !!! A culinary feast is scheduled for tomorrow. I hope the moderators and Vyacheslav Olegovich will not let you down !!! laughing
        1. Pane Kohanku
          Pane Kohanku 30 August 2020 19: 46 New
          +3
          Nikolay Why don't you feed you in St. Petersburg?

          in Izborsk, just in front of the fortress, local farmers sell - from sausages to cucumbers! Oh yes, and fish! Naturel! request drinks
          1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
            Kote Pan Kokhanka 30 August 2020 20: 20 New
            +1
            They cheated the Moderators, they let them down - they fed the French with cannons, cannonballs and buckshot, or could have croissants, champagne and bourbon with ice cream !!! laughing
            Wow, I feel like I’m going to catch it with a slipper! recourse
  • Mihaylov
    Mihaylov 28 August 2020 11: 53 New
    +1
    And a skillful shooter, about which, for example, Agathius of Mirinei writes, could pierce both shield and armor with an arrow, which was done by the Goth Aligern, who killed the Byzantine taxiarch Palladius with a shot from the walls of Qom.

    Interesting message, haven't met it before. But I am tormented by vague doubts: and the shield and armor - an arrow? Although as a special case - everything is possible, just went well, that's why it was noted as an unusual case.
    1. Edward Vashchenko
      28 August 2020 12: 31 New
      +3
      The article about the ancient Slavic arrows will be in one.
      There will be a link to one work of a Ukrainian researcher, he describes a fairly well-known experiment in 2005 conducted in England with an English bow and different types of medieval arrowheads.
      They beat on the "armor". I will write about this, a number of arrows (tips) were pierced.
      1. Mihaylov
        Mihaylov 28 August 2020 12: 36 New
        +2
        Quote: Edward Vashchenko
        About ancient Slavic arrows, the article will be in one

        It is very interesting, we are waiting: we will discuss this topic there.
        The main thing is not on the weekend, otherwise I am at the dacha and again I will miss all the most interesting crying
        1. Edward Vashchenko
          28 August 2020 12: 54 New
          +3
          Oh, at the dacha, lucky. good
          No, I think I'll post it in the middle of the week, and then as an editor.
  • Trilobite Master
    Trilobite Master 28 August 2020 12: 34 New
    +5
    Thanks to the author, as always. It's a wonderful day Friday. smile
    I will try to summarize the content of the article, as I understood it.
    Since we do not have archaeological data on the presence of shields or other professional protective equipment among the Slavs, we can only judge about the fact of its existence and quality characteristics from the written sources of neighbors. These sources offer various and, often, contradictory information, but they agree on one thing - there were shields, and nothing else from protective equipment was. Therefore, further we are talking only about shields.
    Actually, the Greek terms used by Greek authors, in fact, cannot tell us anything definite - only guesses what was really meant. This, in general, is not surprising, because at that time there could be no talk of any standards in the manufacture of shields, their classifications and nomenclatures of names. The Slavs also did not have professional masters-shitniki who had their own "style". A man going into battle made a shield for himself, at his own peril and risk, in accordance with his own capabilities, based on their level of personal skill, the availability of time and desire. How many warriors - so many different shields. So even if the Greeks came up with a hundred terms for the Slavic shields, they would still not be enough to describe their diversity. smile You can forget about Greek terms too.
    Qualitative characteristics of shields.
    The only thing that all authors agree on is that the shields were heavy. Something massive, solid and bulky appears immediately. But if you think about it, then this is not at all necessary. It is quite possible that the term "heavy" was used by Byzantine authors in terms of comparison with their own samples of shields. Two similar shields are held in hands - the Slavic one is clearly heavier, well, it means the Slavic shields are heavy. This characteristic does not say anything about the size of the shield and how it is used, or even about its actual weight.
    So, what do we know about Slavic shields? It turns out - nothing, except that they did exist. smile
    Now let's try to go beyond the scope of the article and look at the topic from a different angle.
    We know that the Slavs definitely fought and they definitely used shields. What do we know about the tactics of the Slavs and their methods of fighting?
    First, the army of the Slavs consisted of infantry. If there was a cavalry (no one convinced me of this yet), it was only at the very late stages and in the most embryonic state.
    The second is that the Slavs do not have any kind of system, except for the loose one. Both the attack and the retreat were carried out by the crowd. Fighting in close formation was not practiced.
    The main weapon of the Slavs is remote, throwing.
    Favorite tactic is an ambush attack. The most elaborate skills are stealth and movement speed at short distances, necessary for a surprise attack.
    What shield would a Slav warrior need to conduct such hostilities?
    Lasting? Not. For protection against throwing weapons, this is not needed, and the Slavs avoided hand-to-hand combat.
    Heavy? Also no. You can't run with him, but you have to run a lot.
    Expensive, high-tech, time-consuming and labor-intensive to manufacture? Again, no. When retreating, the shields had to be thrown.
    Big? And again, no - in loose formation it was enough to defend only oneself, and this, rather, requires mobility than a large area.
    What happens is relatively small, simple and cheap (in fact, waste smile ), the most lightweight version, designed to counter throwing weapons.
    For some reason, I immediately imagine either a hastily knocked together from boards, or a round shield woven from rods, which personally I probably would not even bother to cover it with leather.
    And more in pursuit. smile
    It obviously does not follow from the author's article, but I think it is worth pointing out that shields with embossing, or rather, the presence of umbons on shields, is one of the markers of the presence in society of a certain military stratum, professional warriors, vigilantes. So far, archaeologists have not yet found anything of the kind among the Slavs, more precisely, what they found turned out to be later (XNUMXth century) and ... Scandinavian. smile
    1. Edward Vashchenko
      28 August 2020 13: 29 New
      +4
      Michael,
      thank you
      excellent summing up!
  • Operator
    Operator 28 August 2020 19: 01 New
    -2
    One more Russophobic sketch of the Avar author - nachetchik (pouring from empty into empty statements of "historians" -linguists).

    I just see how the wild slaves (the author's favorite definition), the Slavs rushed to the highly civilized Germans with a tearful request for help with the name of a certain protective weapon, which received the purely Hohdoyche name schit laughing

    As for the presence of shields among the Slavs as such, the author was smeared on the wall by Rich, who gave a lot of facts about archaeological finds of metal parts of shields in Slavic burials of the 8th century and later. The absence of such finds in earlier burials only indicates that the shields were then made without the use of metal and, therefore, were a consumable material.

    PS The version of the Avar author especially delivered that the Slavs went to battle only in stockings on their naked bodies with their personal belongings displayed - but how else could our ancestors go out at any time of the year laughing