One "Varshavyanka" and one "Lada": the Ministry of Defense signed a contract for the construction of submarines

The Russian military department has signed a contract for the construction of two diesel-electric submarines of projects 636.3 Varshavyanka and 677 Lada. The agreement was signed within the framework of the Army-2020 military-technical forum.

According to the information released to the public, the Defense Ministry signed a contract with the Admiralty Shipyards for the construction of two submarines - one Varshavyanka and one Lada. The details of the agreement have not been disclosed, neither the construction time is known, nor will the submarines be built for anyone. At the same time, Admiralty Shipyards are awaiting the signing of a contract for a series of diesel-electric submarines.

The general director of "Admiralty Shipyards" Alexander Buzakov said yesterday that the contract for a series of submarines of project 636.3 will allow the company to avoid idle capacity. According to him, already next year some of the shipyard's capacities will be free, but the Ministry of Defense has not yet decided on the construction of the next series of "Varshavyankas" for the Baltic fleet.

Well, we can conclude already this year. Well, the most extreme is the following. In 2021, already certain types of production will be free

- he said.

It should be reminded that Admiralty Shipyards have built a series of six Project 636.3 Varshavyanka submarines for the Black Sea Fleet, and a series of Varshavyanka submarines for the Pacific Fleet is currently under construction. It was planned that in 2020 the Ministry of Defense will conclude a new contract with the enterprise for another series of submarines for the Baltic Fleet.

Comments

[Orange bigg]

It's time to start serial production of the 4th generation Lada-class submarines. In a year, the first serial 677Ds are to be handed over to the fleet.

[CSKA]

Quote: OrangeBigg

It's time to start serial production of the 4th generation Lada class submarines

So it has already begun.

[Victor_B]

677 "Lada

I did not understand whether VNEU (air-independent power plant) was finished or not?
There was no dancing there.

[newcomer]

They promise by the end of 23 reptiles. It is planned to install it on the P750b submarine.

[Victor_B]

"Lada" is she also from VNEU?

[newcomer]

So far, alas and ah.

[rudolff]

Only these P750B, like all other Malachite submarines of smaller displacement, did not interest anyone, there is not a single order.

[newcomer]

How can there be an order if this project in the present has not yet jumped off the Whatman paper?

[rudolff]

We and Cupids at exhibitions, salons offer with VNEU, which does not exist.

[newcomer]

And the hedgehog until the snake?

[rudolff]

Moreover, on the Amur, there should be a Rubin installation, not a Malakhit one.

[newcomer]

I would like VNEU to be everywhere, and what? The conversation is about the emergence of VNEU in principle, and not in particular specifically on the given boat.

[rudolff]

The fact of the matter is that there are only conversations, and there was no installation, and no. As there are no LIABs, which Rubin also sculpts with the same result. I will sooner believe that Malachite will bring his turbine to its head faster. Maybe Rubinovskaya would now stand on Ladakh, if not for the 2014 sanctions. All agreements with the Germans on the supply of fuel cells flew into the basket.

[newcomer]

Here the question is different, the Moscow Region is not very satisfied with the electrochemical VNEU "Rubin", and the matter arose on the "handbrake". Let me remind you that Malachite has a gas turbine.

[Fizik M]

Quote: rudolff

Only these P750B, like all other Malachite submarines of smaller displacement, did not interest anyone, there is not a single order.

the late Pashin, when asked by journalists what is the reason that Piranhas are not exported, answered very accurately - IN MALAKHIT

[Orange bigg]

Quote: newbie

They promise by the end of 23 reptiles. It is planned to install it on the P750b submarine.

No, they are doing VNEU for the Lada submarine. They promise to complete the creation of VNEU for submarines of the Lada 2021D class in 2022-677. There are orders for these submarines from the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation and they are being built, and the P750b is a project developed on the personal initiative of Malachite and is unlikely to be of interest RF Ministry of Defense.

[Kurare]

Quote: OrangeBigg

They are doing VNEU for the Lada submarine. They promise to complete it in 2021-2022

It may well be, but in the article

The Russian military department has signed a construction contract two diesel-electric submarines projects 636.3 "Varshavyanka" and 677 "Lada".

Those. VNEU will not be placed on these boats if the journalists have not messed up anything again.

[newcomer]

"Rubinovskaya" VNEU at the stage of bench tests. They promise to supply the B585 project. "Rubinovskaya" _ electrochemical, "Malakhitovskaya" _ gas turbine.
Perhaps “Rubin” will be able to complete bench tests before the end of 22.
They plan to install "Malakhitovskaya" on the P750B.

[rudolff]

It has been at the stage of bench tests for almost ten years.

[newcomer]

“Ruby” made it in “hardware” in 18g. Bench tests are underway. It is planned to finish by 22nd.

[rudolff]

"Russia is completing tests of a test bench of a fundamentally new engine for non-nuclear submarines - an air-independent power plant - and is preparing to create a prototype," Andrey Dyachkov, Director General of Sevmash and the Rubin Central Design Bureau of Marine Engineering, told RIA Novosti. "
This is news from 2011. Then there were official messages about the completion of bench tests, about the creation of a full-scale model, about the readiness to start sea trials ... And promises, promises, promises ...

[newcomer]

I am guided by Dorofeev's statement on "Army2020". This is the "Malachite" gendir.

[rudolff]

I have a selection of official statements regarding VNEU, LIABs and the Lada / Amur project over the past ten years. And everyone is optimistic. Even when Vysotsky freaked out about the "energy of the Second World War", and things are still there. The point is that we will buy Stirlings from the Chinese. The only hope still remains for Malachite, but they have a facility for submarines of limited displacement. Initially up to 1000 tons, now the bar has been slightly raised. Suitable for Amur-950.

[Cyril G ...]

Quote: rudolff

but they have installation for submarines of limited displacement.

And why do we need a submarine with a larger displacement?

[rudolff]

For the Baltic and the Black Seas, the Amur-950 submarine is quite enough. For the North and the Quiet, we need more. Starting from Amur-1650 / Lada and more. Other tasks, different cruising range, autonomy.

[Cyril G ...]

Quote: rudolff

For the North and the Quiet, we need more.

And here more / less. What is the main task of the North Sea and Pacific submarines? Support for the deployment of NSNF and General Purpose Forces. Here and something like Cupid-550 is enough ...

[rudolff]

I wrote. A different scale, different requirements for cruising range, autonomy, seaworthiness, weapons. All this is linked to the submarine's displacement.

[Cyril G ...]

It is unconvincing ... Kamchatka boats, for example, will essentially have to operate in the Avacha Bay area no further ...
As for me, reasonable sufficiency for the tasks mentioned above is something like "Amur-950"

[rudolff]

They have nothing to do in Avacha Bay.

[Cyril G ...]

Actually, there is something. In Avacha Bay, the bay, if you like, the Americans and even the Japanese climb there ...

[rudolff]

In the bay, but not in the lip. Excuse me, Kirill, do you have any remote relation to the fleet?

[Fizik M]

Quote: Cyril G ...

Kamchatka boats, for example, will essentially have to operate in the Avacha Bay area no further ...

don't confuse your lip with the bay
in fact, 182 brpl operated up to the Indian Ocean

[Cyril G ...]

Quote: Fizik M

don't confuse your lip with the bay

I was wrong, I wrote half asleep without including Moscow.

[newcomer]

So in the end, the selection is good, but the fact is the fact: "Ruby" is in the process of completing a stand. tests (end of 22); "Malachite" is just beginning, promises by the end of 23rd.

[rudolff]

So the same fact was ten years ago. I cited Dyachkov's 11-year statement.

[newcomer]

I'm already tired of writing the same thing for the third time: Moscow Region does not want electrochemical, it wants gas turbine. The electrochemical principle of VNEU is a new word in installations.

[Fizik M]

Quote: rudolff

I have a selection of official statements regarding VNEU, LIABs and the Lada / Amur project over the past ten years. And everyone is optimistic. Even when Vysotsky freaked out about the "energy of the Second World War", and things are still there. The point is that we will buy Stirlings from the Chinese. The only hope still remains for Malachite, but they have a facility for submarines of limited displacement. Initially up to 1000 tons, now the bar has been slightly raised. Suitable for Amur-950.

everything is much more complicated there
We are looking for VNEU to put on boats in the early 2000s
the problem is in the low aggregate capacity, which, taking into account our conditions (flow), called the idea into question even on a submarine of dimension 877

[rudolff]

Yes, theoretically they could. But this would be a highly inefficient and extremely expensive facility to operate. All dances around TE were. When they did not solve the problem with fuel cells, they thought about reforming, they added another one. The idea of ​​purchasing fuel cells in Germany was also covered. Talks about this were about the same period when in the same Germany they wanted to buy armored steel for lightly armored vehicles. Here, the regular power industry of St. Petersburg added fuel to the fire. With Halibut it would be even more difficult, all the same for 3 thousand tons of underwater. And under VNEU, an insert of a section / compartment into the hull would also be needed, 500 tons plus for a / s.

[Fizik M]

Quote: rudolff

But this would be a very inefficient and extremely expensive installation.

everything was normal there - DZTs with O2 in the Dewar vessel
but ... obviously in very insufficient power
and with its increase, the noise level increased sharply

[newcomer]

I wrote a little higher: "The MO is not satisfied with the Rubin electrochemical installation. Therefore:" It’s still there. "

[rudolff]

The MO will not be enough, since Rubin has flunked all the installation work and the prospects are vague. And Malachite has been working on his turbine for a long time and purely on an initiative basis. The P750B project is just an attempt to attract the attention of the Ministry of Defense, which has so far ignored all Malachite's attempts on this topic. Before that, the P750 had a whole bunch of other projects of small and ultra-small submarines, all with the same gas turbine installation.

[newcomer]

Well, what am I talking about ?! Or do you just want to oppose? It would have been a long time since we had two installations, if the Ministry of Defense had not turned its nose.

[Fizik M]

Quote: rudolff

Project P750B, this is just an attempt to attract the attention of the Ministry of Defense

there are very interesting weapons solutions
including vertical ZPU for torpedoes and anti-torpedoes of 32cm caliber

[rudolff]

Yes, the boat is interesting enough. Malakhit's "our answer to Chamberlain", Ruby's Cupid-950 and the failed joint with the Italians S1000.
By the way, it seems to me in vain that our Ministry of Defense ignores projects of boats in such a dimension.

[Fizik M]

Quote: rudolff

Yes, the boat is interesting enough. Malakhit's "our answer to Chamberlain", Ruby's Cupid-950 and the failed joint with the Italians S1000.

the answer is frankly bad
especially if there is a backlog of "Cupid"
we put on the A-950 VNEU (even if it is "Malachite") and it covers this Malachite item like a bull sheep

[rudolff]

I don’t know how he covers the Malachite 750, while this is only a crude project, but I like the Amur-950. And even more than Amur-1650, although I understand that it is not entirely correct to compare them. I have already spoken here that for the Black Sea Fleet and the Baltic Sea, the 950th would be preferable to the Varshavyanka, and even more so to the homeless version that the Ministry of Defense ordered. The question with VNEU, to be honest, has already filled me with an ossobin. I am already mentally ripe for Chinese Stirling.

[Fizik M]

Quote: rudolff

and purely on a proactive basis

it's somewhat wrong
because the grandmother Malachite spends on this not his own (but not the Ministry of Defense)

[Fizik M]

Quote: newbie

I wrote a little higher: “MO is not satisfied with the Rubin electrochemical installation.

the phrase "dissatisfied" looks very strange when applied to a device that the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation did not finance

[Fizik M]

Quote: newbie

They promise by the end of 23 reptiles. It is planned to install it on the P750b submarine.

this is an alternative to "ruby" setting
and "completely alternative"
because "malachite" has serious problems with aggregate power

[cniza]

The details of the agreement have not been disclosed, neither the construction time is known, nor will the submarines be built for anyone. At the same time, Admiralty Shipyards are awaiting the signing of a contract for a series of diesel-electric submarines.

Of course you want it faster, but even so, the main thing is that they build and transfer to the fleets ...

[K298rtm]

1. Low noise 877 (636) is ensured by the fact that an electric motor (low noise) from the AB works under water.
2. When the gas turbine VNEU is operating, what will be the noise level? Can someone explain? (I just want to understand).
3. Will it not turn out that we will increase the underwater autonomy and lose the advantages in stealth?

[Fizik M]

Quote: K298rtm

1. Low noise 877 (636) is ensured by the fact that an electric motor (low noise) from the AB works under water.
2. When the gas turbine VNEU is operating, what will be the noise level? Can someone explain? (I just want to understand).

initially for VNEU they proceeded from the USBH 877 (and at a low-noise run)
and that was the problem
with the DZTs it turned out in the early 2000s, but the speed was at the level of 3 knots
if higher (and more powerful) - they began to "ring"

[Fizik M]

Quote: K298rtm

will we lose the advantages in stealth?

the message of "malachite" has the right to life - VNEU with the State Tretyakov Gallery with very high turnover
well, their power is small

[K298rtm]

High revs of the turbine will require a "gearbox" (speaking in automotive terms), that is, you will have to reduce the revs - this is not a very low-noise mechanism (in our industrial conditions). Well, how the industry worked with noise standards - this is without comment (you yourself know).

[rudolff]

Will not require. The turbine there does not work on the shaft, especially the generator.

[K298rtm]

1. Thus, in the current version we have (in the submerged position): an electric motor (from the AB) works on the shaft. And there will be: turbine - generator - electric motor - shaft. And all this splendor should also provide a reduction in noise compared to the 877 and 636?
2. In the good old days (80s), a reversible converter was one of the significant sources of noise (there was such a good DS at 50 Hz).

[rudolff]

Such a scheme is better than a turbine on the shaft through a GTZA.
And we have already passed the turbines. Combined cycle Walter on the 617th project. And a closed-loop diesel engine on the A615.

[K298rtm]

If the turbine provides only the generator - the AB charge, and the electric motor will operate only from the AB, then the scheme is acceptable (in my non-mechanical opinion).

[Fizik M]

Quote: K298rtm

In the good old days (80s), a reversible converter was one of the significant sources of noise (there was such a good DS at 50 Hz).

already on the 3rd knee she was very much removed
+ static converters appeared

[Fizik M]

Quote: K298rtm

High revs of the turbine will require a "gearbox" (in motor language), that is, you will have to reduce revs

no, for this a special very high-speed generator