Why the Vatican is guarded by Swiss guards

The Vatican is a dwarf state enclave in the territory of Rome. Today, the Vatican is the smallest of the officially recognized states on the planet. It is here that the seat of the highest spiritual leadership of the Roman Catholic Church is located. The Vatican has long been a place of religious pilgrimage for Catholics and tourists from all over the world who are happy to get acquainted with its sights. Despite its diminutive size, the Vatican has its own military, represented by the Swiss Guard.

Tourists often like to take pictures of the local Swiss Guards. Fortunately, they have long become the hallmark of the Vatican and are as popular as the British Royal Guards in their famous bear hats. The Vatican and the Pope personally are guarded by a little more than a hundred Swiss guards. Without their participation, one cannot imagine a single official ceremony in the Vatican. At the same time, many ordinary people are worried about the question: why were Swiss soldiers chosen to protect the pontiff?

Why the Vatican and the Pope are guarded by Swiss Guards

For more than five hundred years, the protection of the Vatican and the Pope has been carried out by the Swiss Guard, the full official name of which, translated from Latin, sounds like "The infantry cohort of the Swiss of the sacred guard of the Pope."

The Vatican Swiss Guard was formed in 1506. This fact rightfully allows us to consider the Swiss guard the oldest among all the armies in the world. She managed to survive until the XXI century.

The initiator of its creation was Pope Julius II, who, even though he was a well-known patron of art at the beginning of the 1503th century, throughout his papacy (1513-XNUMX) waged continuous wars. The same pontiff is considered one of the most warlike in stories dad. It is no coincidence that it was Julius II who needed his own loyal army, a personal guard, devoted to him and directly to the holy throne. In this case, the choice fell on the Swiss soldiers by no means accident. At that time, Swiss mercenaries had already served in many European countries and were rightfully considered one of the best soldiers on the entire continent.

View of St. Peter's Cathedral and Vatican

The Swiss often became fighters of the personal guard of kings and emperors of many European states, and the Pope was no exception. In those years, Swiss soldiers were especially valued throughout Europe for their fearlessness, bravery, courage, but most importantly, their unlimited devotion to their employer. The Swiss rightly believed that such qualities as resilience and readiness to die for their employer were not stupidity, but an important competitive advantage in the market of "private military companies" of medieval Europe. They clearly adhered to the principle: those who can fully work out the customer's money without tarnishing the honor of the uniform will be paid more and more over time, unlike the hired rabble, who will scatter at the first signs of an impending disaster or failure on the battlefield. In those years, Switzerland largely lived on the money of mercenaries. It was still far from the construction of a modern banking system, so it was the Swiss soldiers that were the guarantor of replenishing the budgets of Swiss cities, cantons and families.

Considering all these facts, Pope Julius II turned to the inhabitants of the Swiss canton of Uri with a request to provide him with soldiers for the personal guard that was being created. Already on January 22, 1506, a group of 150 Swiss guards arrived at the Vatican, who became the first guards in the service of the Vatican. At the same time, a magnificent reception was arranged in honor of the soldiers who arrived, and they themselves were able to receive the blessing of the pontiff for service.

Did the Swiss Guards have to fight?

Throughout its more than 500-year history, the Swiss Guards have had to fight only once. This happened on May 6, 1527. On this day, Rome was captured by the troops of the Holy Roman Emperor Charles V. The Emperor's troops plundered the city and staged a massacre near St. Peter's Cathedral. This event went down in history as the "Pillage of Rome". At the same time, the city did not experience such destruction and plundering from the invasion of the barbarians. This event itself closed the era of the Renaissance papacy.

On May 6, 1527, there were only 189 Swiss guards in the Vatican. Despite all the hopelessness of the situation, they remained to guard Pope Clement VII. In the army that besieged Rome, there were about 20 thousand people, the defenders of the city were about 5 thousand. After the breakthrough of the troops attacking the walls of the city in an unequal battle on the steps of St. Peter's Cathedral, 147 guards were killed, but the survivors were able to provide protection for the pope, leading him through a secret underground passage to the Castle of Saint Angel. Behind the thick walls of the castle, the pontiff managed to wait out the siege. At the same time, the day of May 6 forever entered the history of the Vatican Swiss Guard. Since then, and for almost 500 years, it is on this day that the recruits of the guardsmen take the oath.

Once again, the guardsmen came close to engaging in battle during World War II when Nazi troops entered the city. The guards loyal to the Pope took up a perimeter defense and announced that they would not surrender the Vatican and would fight to the last drop of blood. The leadership of Hitler's Germany was not ready to spoil relations with the Roman Catholic Church, so the Wehrmacht command ordered the troops not to occupy the Vatican. Not a single German soldier entered the territory of the tiny state.

The current state of the Vatican's Swiss guard

Currently, the Swiss Guard is officially the only branch of the Vatican's armed forces. It's hard to believe, but not so long ago, back in 1970, there were four types of armed forces in the Vatican army: the noble guard, the palatine (palace) guard, the Swiss guard and the papal gendarmerie. After the reform of the armed forces of the tiny country, which was carried out in 1970 by Pope Paul VI, only the Swiss guard was left to protect the state. In 2002, Pope John Paul II re-established the gendarmerie, but it is no longer part of the Vatican's armed forces, performing exclusively police functions.

The staffing table of the Swiss Guard is 135 people, but at the moment there are a little more than a hundred guardsmen in service. As before, only male volunteers with Swiss citizenship are selected for service. This tradition has remained unshakable for over five hundred years. The following number of requirements are imposed on the Swiss Guards: age from 19 to 30 years old, height not less than 174 cm. Belonging to the Roman Catholic Church is mandatory, in addition, only bachelors are accepted into the ranks of the guard. They can get married while already in the service and by special permission, while their chosen one must also adhere to the Catholic religion.

Today, concessions have been made for the guards in terms of marriage. They can get married after five years of service, regardless of their rank and position. Previously, only officers, non-commissioned officers and sergeants could do this - and only after ten years of service. Easing these conditions helped improve the staffing situation in the Vatican's Swiss guard.

Other requirements for the guards include the mandatory presence of at least secondary or secondary specialized education. In this case, all applicants must undergo military training in the Swiss army (at least four months) and have positive characteristics from the secular and spiritual authorities. All applicants for the position of the Guardsman must have an impeccable reputation. The official language of the Vatican Swiss Guard remains German.

For five hundred years, the guards have served at the chambers of the Pope and Secretary of State and at all the entrances to the Vatican. They are directly involved in solemn masses, ceremonies and receptions. Guardsmen are also known for their full dress uniform - traditional striped red-blue-yellow camisoles. On solemn occasions, they put on cuirasses and stand guard with halberds and swords. At the same time, one should not think that the Swiss guards cannot handle modern weapons... All of them have the necessary level of military training and in case of danger they are ready to defend the Pope not with a halberd, but with quite modern small arms. Currently, the guards are armed with SIG Sauer P220 and Glock 19 pistols, Heckler & Koch MP5A3 and MP7A1 submachine guns, and SIG SG 550 and SG 552 assault rifles.

Comments

[tlauicol]

The Passetto can hardly be called an underground passage.
P.S. wondering how they solve the uniform problem? Are armor for any size / height stored?

[Krasnodar]

With the Vatican grandmas and scanty, quantitatively, l / s - they can do it individually, on order, to each new recruit and even change it annually if the person gets dry or sways))

[Cristall]

Quote: Krasnodar

With the Vatican grandmas and scanty, quantitatively, l / s - they can do it individually, on order, to each new recruit and even change it annually if the person gets dry or sways))

The salary of the guards is around 1300 euros and is tax-free. In the first year of service, soldiers are also provided with housing, uniforms and food. After serving 20 years, the guardsman receives a pension equal to his last salary.

P.S. wondering how they solve the uniform problem? Are armor for any size / height stored?

They are dressed in colorful medieval uniforms. According to the legend, this form was made according to drawings by Michelangelo, although there is no historical evidence of this. The uniform includes striped red-blue-yellow camisoles and trousers pulled up under the knees, a beret or a morion with a red plume on special occasions, a cuirass, a halberd and a sword. Nowadays, metal helmets that heat up in hot weather have been replaced by plastic ones made with a 3D printer.

[Kote Pan Kokhanka]

Good morning to all!
For armor - I think because of them such requirements for growth "from 174cm".

[Krasnodar]

Good morning!
From you 174 1 for representativeness. The division is largely ceremonial. ))

[Basil50]

A panegyric to the Swiss, in all its beauty.
In fact, the Swiss were famous for their ferocity during robberies and the fact that they killed everyone who fell into their hands. There are still rumors that they ate those they killed.
Loyalty to the employer is also nothing more than rumors. After the animal ferocity, surrendering to the Swiss was scary. The most sophisticated executions were invented for them.
The then pope did not really care that the Swiss were considered savages, he liked their ferocity and the fact that besides him no one wanted to have anything to do with the savages.
Incidentally, the ferocity of the Swiss finds an explanation. They, from a lack of iodine, had problems with the thyroid gland. A distinctive feature of the Swiss was * necklaces * and a lack of mental development.

[Krasnodar]

That is why they are now second in HDI after Norway - and without oil and gas It’s like a lack of mental development ..

[VIP]

If everyone were so mentally retarded

[parma]

Quote: Vasily50

A panegyric to the Swiss, in all its beauty.
In fact, the Swiss were famous for their ferocity during robberies and the fact that they killed everyone who fell into their hands. There are still rumors that they ate those they killed.
Loyalty to the employer is also nothing more than rumors. After the animal ferocity, surrendering to the Swiss was scary. The most sophisticated executions were invented for them.
The then pope did not really care that the Swiss were considered savages, he liked their ferocity and the fact that besides him no one wanted to have anything to do with the savages.
Incidentally, the ferocity of the Swiss finds an explanation. They, from a lack of iodine, had problems with the thyroid gland. A distinctive feature of the Swiss was * necklaces * and a lack of mental development.

Um ... Well, if “no one wanted to have” the case means at least the French royal court, which used the Swiss as a basis for infantry, reinforcing them with the national cavalry with separate cities for the provision of soldiers existed until the 19th century) then yes, no one wanted to deal)) the loyalty was really not 100% when their salaries were delayed (in Europe there was even a saying there is no money, no Swiss) ... regarding the ferocity and executions - it was, but it mainly concerned the German mercenaries ... the mercenaries of Europe did not like competitors, from that they exterminated each other without taking prisoners ... as far as I remember, Rome was plundered by the rebellious mercenaries, to whom the emperor owed (officially he was against the siege and plunder Rima Landsknechtami) ....

[VIP]

"did not like competitors", and who loves them?

[Cristall]

Quote: parma

but mostly related to German mercenaries

especially in France, German mercenaries treated the population quite cruelly.
Armed people on foreign territory are quite dangerous at all times

[Undecim]

What is the link confirming your "pearl" can you give?

[Basil50]

The Germans placed a lot in Switzerland in fear of capture by the French-British. It was the Germans who created precision engineering and banks with a guarantee of * secrecy of deposits *. It was the Germans who began to import sea fish and iodize salt for their workers who were imported to Switzerland.
It is worth knowing all the same that the modern ideas of Europe and the countries entering the EU, the very ones who shout about their own * superiority *, have a somewhat different attitude to real events. There are a lot of lies, just like on the outskirts of China-America.

[Basil50]

It is impossible to cover all aspects of what is happening in the comments.
The Swiss today write about themselves a lot of things, except that it was the Germans who created this * paradise for tourists * and for those who hid money. The conditions for the development of the * banking paradise * are still a big secret today.
It was the British who at one time published so many articles with revelations in the media, fought with competitors.

[3x3zsave]

It is impossible to cover all aspects of what is happening in the comments.
And you write an article! I'm sure she will be successful!

[Undecim]

I requested a link to the source from which you get your information. You keep giving me your own rantings. Have you been to Switzerland?

[Astra wild]

Victor Nikolaevich, he already knows well without it

[dokusib]

In those centuries, all people in war were famous for their ferocity. And at the expense of loyalty to the employer, you are in vain, while the payment was received according to the contract, or rather the Swiss, there was no one.

[Astra wild]

Vasily, have you read: "the obligatory presence of at least secondary or secondary specialized education" somehow does not fit with the mentally retarded.
The world's best watches were again made by "mentally retarded" Swiss

[svp67]

This fact rightfully allows us to consider the Swiss guard the oldest among all the armies in the world.

No, not armies, but PMCs ...

[3x3zsave]

No, not a PMC. PMCs do not take the oath.

[svp67]

Quote: 3x3zsave

No, not a PMC. PMCs do not take the oath.

Everyone has their own traditions ...

[Catfish]

A little more detail about the modern weapons of the guards:
SIG Sauer P220 pistol (P75)

Glock 19 pistol

submachine gun Heckler & Koch MP5A3

submachine gun Heckler & Koch MP7A1

assault rifle SIG SG 550

assault rifle SIG SG 552

[Pushkowed]

Currently in service with the guards are SIG Sauer P220 and Glock 19 pistols

And from 1912 to 1990, the "service" pistol was the 7,65-mm Draize mod. 1907:

[Catfish]

I know. And that, stood right up to the ninetieth year - healthy conservatism, just in the spirit of the Vatican. ))

[VIP]

Uh, their "lip is not stupid": Hehler "and" Glok "beautiful cars, some of the best in the world

[Nehist]

Well, the resources of the Vatican on the trenchant FRS will be !!! There is so much information ...

[3x3zsave]

[i] There is so much information ... [/ i
What is it?

[Alf]

Quote: 3x3zsave

[i] There is so much information ... [/ i
What is it?

It is not for nothing that Dad is called the richest man in the world. Personally, he has no money, but the Vatican in general and dad in particular manage WHAT amounts of money.
Somehow I met the phrase “If the Vatican archives are opened, the foundations of the Western world will collapse. The oldest intelligence service in the world is not MI6 at all, but the Vatican intelligence.

[Catfish]

Good morning everyone! Regarding the Vatican: I can't leave without saying goodbye ...

De-Merode, then,
Preparing for battle with the king
Practiced under the mountain
Papal infantry:

All in silk cassocks,
Their knapsacks are made of new skins,
Full of spruce cones,
Himself in purple stockings.

Venerati runs up:
“You,” he shouts, “have no time for rati!
There they want, completely out of place,
Daddy bachelor! "

Experienced in the military order,
De Merode bent threefold,
He sees something bad,
He says: "What is it?"

Venerati repeats:
“Now you have no time for rati,
There they want, completely out of place,
Daddy bachelor! "

Hearing this phrase again,
De Merode understood at once
Says: “It is with an eye;
Obey the order! "

The trumpets sounded immediately,
An intense fever broke out in the army,
So everyone looks at whoever
Give a butt to the teeth?

De Merode, in a cocked hat,
Fresh from a needle in a cassock,
Everyone is lucky by them in a one-wheel drive
To daddy's light.

As soon as the soldiers entered it,
The castrati were scared,
They say: “We are to blame!
Let's sing without pay! "

Kind dad is free
Taking care of the people again
And to the castrates De Merode
Speaks like this:

“Wait, you villains!
I'll hang everyone for muda! "
Daddy of the rivers, blushing slightly:
"You have to be smarter!"
(Alexey Tolstoy "Riot in the Vatican")

[VIP]

The author also has a lady's version of the poem: "I will hang by the rib"
I studied at school and somehow I came across this poem. It seems to be called "The Riot of the Castrates"

[cost]

The salary of the guards is around 1300 euros and is tax-free. In the first year of service, soldiers are also provided with housing, uniforms and food. After serving 20 years, the guardsman receives a pension equal to his last salary.

[3x3zsave]

In general, the conditions in the Foreign Legion are even more interesting.

[Krasnodar]

Quote: 3x3zsave

In general, the conditions in the Foreign Legion are even more interesting.

Hello Anton!
By the money - of course. It's only one thing to shoot tourists in the Vatican, and another to climb in Africa, and I take part in hostilities)). 1300 euros or 115 rubles per month, when you have no other expenses and zero ambition is the norm. I left at 000, say, retired - you quickly find a job in your Switzerland as some kind of security manager for some commercial enterprise, plus the pension is dripping - what's wrong?

[3x3zsave]

Albert!
In the first year of service, soldiers are also provided with housing, uniforms and food.

The Legion guarantees all this for a lifetime, + medical care. Now estimate the cost of renting a house in Rome.
As for pensions in the Legion, I don't remember exactly, but veteran legionnaires are in great demand in security organizations throughout Europe.

[Krasnodar]

They live in the Vatican barracks, in two or three-bed rooms for free. Accommodation is provided, again, for free, for families and officers, in the Vatican itself. The former commander was "put aside", incl. due to the fact that Chel placed his family in an apartment above the barracks, according to rumors. And 1300 is in the area of ​​the Italian minimum wage, you can rent an apartment in the vicinity of the Vatican, even if there are four of us)).

[3x3zsave]

Food, health insurance?

[Krasnodar]

Medical insurance for sure, because for the duration of their service, they are given Vatican citizenship (Roman clinics), food as in any army - at least three times a day)).

[VIP]

So freebie means an international phenomenon?

[3x3zsave]

Quite right! It's in the human genome.

[Liam]

Quote: 3x3zsave

veteran legionnaires are in great demand in security organizations throughout Europe.

But not as bodyguards, these are different levels in this area

[3x3zsave]

I was not aware of the bodyguard training of the guards.

[Liam]

Legionnaires also get "sparsely" if that. Less than the guards.


A novice legionnaire with 10 months of experience, serving in France, receives about € 1 per month, and in the case of a business trip, for example, to Djibouti, about € 2500 per month. Legionnaire parachutists receive about € 1800 in France and a little over € 3 in Africa. Considering that a standard business trip lasts about four months, then there is no need to talk about the strong enrichment of the legionnaires. As for the command staff, for example, the sergeant-chief receives about € 1800, serving in France. And to earn € 5 thousand, you need to be not only a high-ranking officer, but also an extremely large father, because the salary is calculated based on the number of children including.

Vadim Osmalovsky: As a corporal of the 1REG - an engineer regiment, I earned € 1247 a month while at the place of deployment. When I was sent to Djibouti for five months, I received € 2900 a month. But business trips usually happen once a year, so in a year I earned about € 25 thousand. Then I was without a family and children, such a salary suited me. Now it would be more difficult: renting an apartment, food, clothes for the whole family ... In general, the salary of a legionnaire cannot be called large, but you cannot call it beggarly.

Contrary to the legends about the fabulous pension of legionnaires, after 15 years of service in the legion, they pay € 800 a month. And in recent years, these 15 years have turned into 17,5

[3x3zsave]

This world is not getting better, and we are with it.

[VIP]

However, there are enough hunters to serve in the Legion. Then someone said that he was going to enlist in the legion, but probably did not want to enter the African climate

[Liam]

People who have education and the ability to make good money in civilian life do not join the army. The salary of the military corresponds to their level

[Alf]

Quote: Liam

People who have education and the ability to make good money in civilian life do not go to the army.

It's not always about making money. For many people, the awl in the lower compartment does not allow them to live peacefully and calmly.

[Cristall]

Quote: Krasnodar

By the money - of course. It's only one thing to shoot tourists in the Vatican, another to climb in Africa, and I take part in hostilities))

Quote: Krasnodar

The pension is dripping - what's wrong?

will be fired. No pension.
according to the requirements of the Vatican, "those responsible for the safety of the pope must have an impeccable reputation." The reason for the resignation of the commander of the guards in 2014 was that he imposed too harsh, almost dictatorial, discipline and settled his family in luxurious apartments.
recruits must complete military training in Switzerland. The minimum term for signing a contract is 2 years, and the maximum is 20.
About the tourists-In the Vatican
soldiers of the Swiss Guard provide background information to tourists and ensure order in the city, because, oddly enough, the small Vatican has a very high crime rate. This is due to the large flow of tourists.

[Liam]

Hardly. To live in the center of Rome and so that after paying for an apartment, food, a communal apartment, etc., remain 1500 clean, you must have a minimum salary of 3500/4000. Besides, this is the salary of new privates, sergeants and officers receive more. For a young guy who does not have practically no training and education, the salary is more than decent. For recruitment into the Italian army, the criteria are much stricter. Plus, for several years of service, the guardsman undergoes free high-quality training that will open many doors to him in work in the security sector for a very good salary

[Alf]

Quote: 3x3zsave

In general, the conditions in the Foreign Legion are even more interesting.

But the geographical conditions are completely different.

[cost]

The official flag appeared among the guards in 1914, at the same time when a modern form was invented and weapons were improved. The banner has a size of 2.2 by 2.2 meters and is divided into four quarters by a white Swiss cross. In the first quarter on a red background is the coat of arms of the currently living Pope. Accordingly, it changes with every new Pope. In the second quarter there are horizontal stripes of blue, yellow, red, yellow and blue. In the third quarter - horizontal stripes of red, yellow, blue, yellow, red. In the fourth quarter - the coat of arms of Pope Julius II, the founder of the Swiss Guard, is placed on a red background. In the center of the banner in a wreath of leaves is the coat of arms of the current guard commander against the background of the flowers of his native canton of Switzerland.

[Keyser soze]

The design of the uniforms of the guardsmen is the case of Michelangelo:

[Liam]

Quote: Keyser Soze

The design of the uniforms of the guardsmen is the case of Michelangelo:

This is a fake. The current uniform of the guards was the work of Colonel Jules Maximes Repond in 1914.

[Cristall]

Quote: Liam

This is a fake. The current uniform of the guards was the work of Colonel Jules Maximes Repond in 1914.

When it comes to the modern uniform of the Guardsmen, Michelangelo Buonarroti is usually remembered as its creator. However, there is no confirmation of this assumption, so most likely this is just a beautiful legend.
Modern costumes for Swiss soldiers were invented in 1914 by the commander of the guard, Jules Repon. It was inspired by the frescoes by Raphael Santi. Jules Repont created the costume in the style of the Renaissance, but simplified it, removing excessive pretentiousness and replacing hats with berets.

[cost]

... The guard does not accept men under 19 and over 30 years old.

[cost]

Ranks of the Vatican Swiss Guard
Officers
Oberst (Colonel, also referred to as "commandant"
Oberstleutnant (lieutenant colonel, also referred to as vice-commandant)
Kaplan (chaplain, a spiritual rank, but in the military table of ranks corresponds to a vice-commandant)
Major (major)
Hauptmann (Team Captain)
Non-commissioned officers
Feldwebel (Feldwebel)
Wachtmeister (sergeant, sergeant)
Korporal (corporal)
Vizekorporal (vice corporal)
Ordinary
Hellebardier (Halberdier, so the private guardsman is proudly called)

[cost]

The modern uniform of the guardsmen is divided into ceremonial, everyday and working.
Front, in turn, there are two types: gala and grand gala.
The gala costume includes: striped red-blue-yellow camisoles and trousers pulled up under the knees, a beret or a morion with a red plume on special occasions, a shell, a halberd and a sword. The grand gala is complemented by a white metal morion cuirass and helmet with a red plume. The helmet is decorated with the coat of arms of the warrior Pope Julius II, who formed the guard in 1506. The large dress uniform consists of 154 parts and weighs more than 8 pounds (approximately 3,6 kg), therefore, it is worn only for especially important and solemn ceremonies.
Casual uniform blue, consists of a camisole with wide sleeves and a white turn-down collar, wide pants below the knee, which are tucked into dark blue leggings, and black boots. Headdress - black beret. Soldiers wear this uniform for drill training or for service in the interior of the guard.
working the clothes have lost the elements of the Renaissance - this is a gray overalls with belts on which weapons can be attached.
In 2018, metal morions were replaced with 3-D printed plastic helmets of the same shape. This is due to the fact that a plastic helmet is 2 times cheaper than a metal one, and protects from ultraviolet rays, which is especially important when serving on the street.
a photo.New plastic helmet of the Swiss guard, 2018

The plastic helmet, like its metal predecessor, is decorated with the coat of arms of the warrior Pope Julius II. Naturally, this modern ceremonial unit has no need for real armor.

[Liam]

Quote: Rich

Naturally, this modern ceremonial unit has no need for real armor.

This is not an exclusively ceremonial unit. After the failure of the Pope's security service, which allowed the assassination of John Paul II in 2, the corps was reformed and assigned to it the operational functions of direct protection of the Pope during mass events. The people in plain clothes forming a cordon around the Pope and his cars are Swiss

[Astra wild]

Swiss in operetta uniform and civilian clothes, and I thought it was the Italian secret service

[Cristall]

Quote: Liam

After the failure of the Pope's security service, which allowed an attempt on John Paul 2 in 1981, the corps was reformed and assigned the operational functions of the Pope's immediate security during mass events

in 1970, Pope Paul VI introduced a ban on carrying firearms while patrolling the Vatican (in the same year he announced the dissolution of the rest of the Vatican's military formations). The storage of guns in barracks was prohibited by the Second Vatican Council (1962-1965). But after the assassination attempt on Pope John Paul II in 1981, the guardsmen were again armed with rifles and pistols.

Today, the guards are armed with modern pistols and machine guns. However, you will not see soldiers with firearms on the streets of the Vatican. It is worn discreetly when it is necessary to accompany or guard the Pope or in case of battle. The protection of the Papal Palace uses mainly traditional protazans (or halberds).

[VIP]

In RI at 21, the army was called

[The leader of the Redskins]

Thanks to the author for the interesting story. I have always taken the Swiss in the Vatican as an axiom, without thinking where it came from.
I would also like to thank the commentators who supplemented the article with illustrations.

[Cristall]

Quote: Leader of the Redskins

I have always taken the Swiss in the Vatican as an axiom, without thinking where it came from.

I read a lot of history. And also films Angels and Demons and in the same repertoire.
There is just a kitchen from the inside.

[Undecim]

Pope Julius II was the initiator of its creation.
Pope Sixtus IV was the initiator of the creation of the papal guard, who made an agreement with the Swiss Confederation and even built barracks on Via Pellegrino, but died in 1484. Pope Innocent VIII confirmed and successfully used Swiss mercenaries, as did the next Pope, Alexander VI.
Cardinal Giuliano della Rovere was an active participant in all these events, so when in 1503 he became Pope Julius II, he decided to put the issue on a permanent basis. The finances were provided by the then richest trading and banking house in Europe, the Fuggers from Ausburg.

[3x3zsave]

Hello, Victor Nikolaevich!
And please post that photo from the Vatican "gunsmith" again, for authenticity?

[Undecim]

Hello Anton. I don't remember which one I posted. Is this okay?

By the way, historical cuirasses are worn today only on the day of the oath. And on all sorts of parades they carry modern replicas made in 2012 by the famous Austrian company Waffen und Harnischschmiede Schmidberger. And the whole work was paid by the Private Donations Fund. So the Holy See did not spend money on armor.

[3x3zsave]

Yes, this is it! Thank!

[Catfish]

Hi Anton , I scribbled something for you there in a personal - look.

[Catfish]

And what is interesting is that between the Swiss SIG MKPO and the MP-43/44, the only German MP-38/40 somehow got in between. Really a battle trokhfey of the brave army of the Vatican.

[Krasnodar]

Most likely, a gift to Pius from Zoldaten - a Catholic)).

[Liam]

In their arsenal there are many "vintage" weapons that were used by the corps in different eras

[Krasnodar]

Hi
Economical)). They don't throw anything away! I remember that the Mauser of the late 19th century was to blame for the armory of my Israeli unit - they were used until the 60s as snipers, and in 1998 we had them in good, combat-ready condition

[Catfish]

I would like to know how many three-lines and maximums are still lying around in our warehouses of DH. Cleanse the pushers and go straight ahead.

[Krasnodar]

They say the Thompsons are still lying around in commercial quantities But these are warehouses - Jews and Catholics keep it in armories))

[Fibrizio]

Not at all. They were actively sold to TOZ and HAMMER for fencing and production of MMG. + they were actively destroyed. Recently, even in the Republic of Belarus, Hammer bought mosinki. Run out of MO.
And all sorts of SVT and AK type 1,2,3 are also mustache, kaput. Only VPO-136 of lousy quality from later AK models remained. But the class is already kept low. In places, shells, trunks, too, are no longer 7.68, but more.

6-7 years ago, all orgmags were filled with this military junk. And now only PPSh (expensive cartridges, if not perestvollen, also fucking unnecessary), AKMs (the most adequate) and SCS unnecessary to anyone.

[Astra wild]

We were told that SCS was actively converted into a hunting version and sold to the population in the 90s

[Catfish]

There is nothing to alter there, the bayonet is dismantled and for sale. They are still being sold.

[Fibrizio]

By the way, the modern "enclosure" keeps tide. But they can drill the pin into the table or close the shutter. But they did it then. Although, as for me, the tide only interferes with hunting, clings to everything.

[Catfish]

... yes SCS are unnecessary to anyone.

And here you are wrong, they take SKSs, and take them with pleasure, put on optics and get themselves a decent hunting carbine. And after a certain upgrade, you can hardly recognize the SCS in it. We have two men in the village, everyone is happy.

[Fibrizio]

I had a SCS just as you describe. With a crown and a lodge artoped. Shit is rare (I realized this already when I compared it, at the beginning I was glad). Until you assemble / disassemble and clean all your hands, you will rip off. And the first time my gas piston flew away like that, no worse than a bullet! I looked under the closet. The accuracy is lousy, not technologically advanced, heavy. Well, who is bigger than a fox to hunt with him? No, I understand, they go to wild boar and moose with them (I personally witness this), but everything larger than a fox is in my opinion on the brink of a foul. Running and then looking for the beast - you will be tortured.
And the new product is much more technologically advanced - it is AK-shaped. You can buy a saiga in an Orthodox caliber for a penny, or the same VPO-136.
I remember myself a second store bought for it to be converted into a detachable five, so he did not get up !!! They are made with such tolerances that they are individual. I was tortured to sharpen it.
So you need this SCS for your collection, or for recreational shooting, or if you just want and need to be a small animal. And so .... Yes, in the Hansa for 20k, there is a better choice of cuttings.
Yes, and about the upgrade, if you are talking about plastic, you need to understand that there is no dowel in it, and the SCS has 3 points of emphasis on the stock. This is a heel (tooth), a dowel and in front it is put in a tight fit (I don’t know how to explain it correctly, such a tree is included in a half-ring), so the accuracy on the plastic is less than it was. I ordered myself a piece of wood with a dowel.

[Catfish]

So your SCS is needed ...

Yes, he is not mine even once, I say the neighbors in the village hunt with him. And I have a BM-16, piece.

... the gas one flew away so ...

The guide rod of the return spring on the SVT-40 flew away like that when I took it apart for the first time. There was no manual, no spare parts for the instrument.

[Fibrizio]

Yes, I realized that it was not yours, maybe put it this way. But all this airing is pampering. Has no practical use. And it takes a long time to clean, and shoots sideways.
And your BM has the right to life completely, in my opinion 12 is better, but this is a master's business. This is a gun for "life".

[Catfish]

This is a gun for "life".

Rightly noticed.

[Nehist]

I don’t know how it is now, but 12 years ago there was a lot of this good in the KFVO.

[Alf]

Quote: Sea Cat

I would like to know how many three-lines and maximums are still lying around in our warehouses of DH. Cleanse the pushers and go straight ahead.

In one series of Spetsnaz on the base in the background there is a long row of ZIS-3.

[Catfish]

And how did they survive? Mosfilm garage?

[Alf]

Quote: Sea Cat

And how did they survive? Mosfilm garage?

I don’t think so. In feature films and, especially, documentaries, there is often such a flicker in the background that you can only wonder.
Ambush series.

[Catfish]

The guys in the guns at Mosfilm, in the eighties, had such samples of barrels that not every museum can boast of. I asked why you don’t give it to the shooting? Yeah, they say, just give the actors, if they don't snatch, then they will certainly mutilate. ))

[Alf]

Quote: Sea Cat

The guys in the guns at Mosfilm, in the eighties, had such samples of barrels that not every museum can boast of. I asked why you don’t give it to the shooting? Yeah, they say, just give the actors, if they don't snatch, then they will certainly mutilate. ))

Many restorers do not give their masterpieces to filmmakers for this very reason.

[Catfish]

And, in my opinion, they are doing absolutely right.

[Liam]

Quote: Undecim

The initiator

A bit wrong. Recruiting and using the Swiss in various wars really started earlier. But using it as a papal guard and on the territory of the Vatican is from Giulio 2nd.
As for the countdown from 1506, there are also nuances. The corps was disbanded several times

[VIP]

"The trading and banking house of Fugers" in Europe at that time, every Catholic considered it an honor to help the pontiff. Benefits could also be derived from this: even the Pope trusts us, and various Deaths, or what bankers they had, burst with envy

[Cristall]

Quote: V I P

Fugers' trading and banking house "in Europe at that time, every Catholic considered it an honor to help the pontiff. Benefits could be derived from this: even the Pope trusts us, and various Deaths, or what bankers they had, burst with envy

This is a whole story.
About how profitable it is to change religion for the sake of money matters. The fact is that religion (both Christianity and Islam) does not allow banking. If in Islam it was given to Jews, then in Christianity they simply closed their eyes ... For money ...
In general, the bankers paid a lot to the Pope (or rather donated) for the freedom of operations.
Therefore, the largest bankers and houses were in Italy.

[Van 16]

Yes, it was interesting to read. And article and comments.

[Aleksandr1971]

In view of the newfangled indulgences, it is necessary that only men, but also women, and at the same time transsexuals, including transsexuals, should be allowed into the Swiss guard. unconventional orientation.

It would be nice to admit blacks into the Swiss guard (after all, there are already quite a lot of blacks in Switzerland) and Arabs, including non-Christian ones.

[Undecim]

Is this your intellectual maximum?

[Liam]

Leaving aside the psychological difficulties of the Persian, in 2003 he took the oath and served for several years Dhani Bachmann-Swiss of Indian origin

[Krasnodar]

Surely a Catholic Hindu. By the way, about the race - modern Catholics are internationalists, at least the official clergy.

[Liam]

Of course. This is one of the mandatory attributes. Was adopted and raised by a Swiss family. As a guardsman, he was so-so, an eternal penalty box, so he lasted only 2 years. In civilian life he worked after in a private security company in Rome. Despite the colorful costumes and frivolous attitude. those who are not particularly familiar with the specifics of the guardsmen have top professional modern training as bodyguards, therefore, in civilian life, they are in great demand in this capacity

[Krasnodar]

So they must have snipers. And the appropriate weapon. The rest is instinctive shooting - they, in theory, should not get out of the shooting range.

[Liam]

All of them are at the level of hand-to-hand, shooters. There are also videos on YouTube. Naturally, there are some of the staging moments, but how they prepare, you can see well

[3x3zsave]

And here the question begins to torment me. After your comments, one gets the impression that the "papal guard" is an elite bodyguard unit. Now questions. Are they, especially, operatives? Then where are the accompanying units? It seems to me that the personal nominal composition of the Swiss papal guard physically cannot ensure the safety of one of the first persons in the world ...

[Liam]

Quote: 3x3zsave

where are the related units?

The Vatican also has a gendarme corps of 150 people. The protection of public order, police functions, and so on, they are engaged. Plus, when the masses in the square of San Petro, there is the protection of public order by the Italian police and the Vatican gendarmes are transferred to their operational subordination. The guard is only the closest circle of protection of the Pope personally, the rest is either the gendarmerie and Italian police if there are events in the Vatican, or the police of other states during the Pope's visits.

[3x3zsave]

As far as I understand, there are about 15-20 special bodyguards trained for this function?

[Liam]

In principle, they are all prepared for this, but I don't know how many are directly used in this particular role.
Try to count ... and these are only those who got into the frame)
https://youtu.be/qJa9RxmWGaA

[3x3zsave]

Well, what can I say ... So it is, operatives, 15-20 people in the unit. In principle, the guys act professionally, but somewhat theatrically. But the "body" itself is completely irresponsible!
I can notice that the FSO of the Russian Federation is working much better. Maybe because the people he protects are less loved in Russia than the Pope in Milan ...

[Liam]

Different approaches. I somehow happened to drive down the street in a car when the motorcade of the Italian president was passing. No extra measures, traffic was not stopped, traffic lights were not turned off. A couple of police motorcycles with flashing lights, a police car, 3 black limousines and another police car. Just cleared one lane traffic, without leaving the oncoming lane, etc. We changed to the right lane and that's it. Like when an ambulance is passing by. People honked, the president waved his hand and everything. We just have the President, and the FSO-Tsar protects)

[3x3zsave]

If you represent the geography of St. Petersburg, I can tell you one story ... That is, there are many such stories, including those with a lethal outcome, but this one is indicative.

[VIP]

Actually, it used to be like this: "take it to the right. Skip the column." The boys loved to watch when the 1st secretary drove by, and even more so when Leonid Brezhnev arrived.

[Avior]

The entrance to the square from Rome is free, to the very territory of the Vatican - the entrances are guarded and there is no open admission. Inside there is still a separate territory closed for tourists.

[Liam]

Through the bridge on Castel Sant'Angelo, access is also free. Although legally this is also the Piazza San Petro, the territory of the Vatican. The gendarmes are there for the border guards and for the traffic police and for the criminal.

[Free wind]

Are you having a problem with that? Well, contact the Vatican, maybe they will accept you.

[Aleksandr1971]

I am a patriot of Russia. And to all the other adversaries, including the Vatican, I sincerely wish a speedy death. Let everyone in the West become non-traditional black transsexuals. By the way, it has long been known that the Vatican is a real den of boy lovers.

[Krasnodar]

There is even nothing to answer ... but what has the Vatican done to Russia in the last two hundred years?

[Glory1974]

and the Vatican has done something bad for Russia over the past two hundred years, say?

Directly like nothing. But we do not know everything, it is a deep secret. The existence of disagreements over the expansion of Catholicism into Russia, Ukraine and Belarus was officially recognized.

[Krasnodar]

That is why they are representatives of a religion, where conversion to one's faith is one of the significant goals ... as in Orthodoxy, as in Islam.

[Glory1974]

it is yes. But there was an agreement on zones of influence, and the Vatican violated it.

[Krasnodar]

Well, I never took religious graters seriously))))) Someone came to believe in a Higher Power and Reason through Moses, someone through Jesus or the Prophet Muhammad (s.a.s.), someone believes in the immaculate the conception of the Virgin Mary herself, as Catholics, some do not - as Orthodox and Protestants The main thing is that Schaub at the same time were not radishes, and so ... at least believe in a pasta monster ... Rastafari ...

[3x3zsave]

Rastafari ...
"Jah will give us everything!" (FROM)

[Krasnodar]

I shot the sheriff, but I didn't shoot the deputy.
I shot the sheriff, but I didn't shoot the deputy.
all around in my hometown,
They're tryin 'to track me down (c)
Jamaican folk poet and performer, promoter of sober lifestyle, Bob Marley.

[3x3zsave]

And also an idealist, raved about the idea of ​​resettling Rastomaniacs to Africa.

[Krasnodar]

There they would be eaten ... not only in a figurative sense

[3x3zsave]

No, he wanted to Ethiopia, under the wise guidance of Haile Selasie.

[Krasnodar]

So the Jamaican guys are entirely Ethiopians. )) Ethiopia - I agree, not quite Africa, the Amharians are closer to the Yemenites than to the Negroids.

[Aleksandr1971]

What did the Vatican do to Russia?

Somehow in the 30s, the Pope announced a "crusade" against the USSR. To this, the Soviet press made a fuss about aggressive plans from the Catholic world. Although Stalin himself grinned into his mustache: "How many divisions does the Pope have?"

But on the whole, the Vatican, of course, seeks to suppress Russia, which is the center of the European civilization alternative to the West. Attempts to conduct subversive activities against Russia were made by the Vatican both in tsarist times and in the imperial period, for example, in the person of the Jesuit Order. As a result of this subversive activity, Western Russia, especially Galicia, is inhabited not by Orthodox, but by Catholics or Uniates.

And in this respect, the Vatican is, of course, an enemy of Russia, since the Vatican is an integral part of the Western camp, with which we have a military-political and economic confrontation, albeit with significant elements of cooperation.

[Krasnodar]

But on the whole, the Vatican, of course, strives to suppress Russia, which is the center of the European civilization alternative to the West.

What is our alternative civilization? Universities and research institutes-activities in the Western European, then American manner, European city architecture, Italian fashion, German cars. Execution - yes, to steal, to saw and to squeeze and to swell and to deceive and to cheat, but this is just a fig execution, and not an alternative civilization. What are our significant differences? Classics of literature that are more European than the same Pavich or Ryunokse? Composers of classical music that are world classics? What are we an alternative? Lack of gay parades?

Attempts to conduct subversive activities against Russia were made by the Vatican both in tsarist times and in the imperial period, for example, in the person of the Jesuit Order. As a result of this subversive activity, Western Russia, especially Galicia, is inhabited not by Orthodox, but by Catholics or Uniates.

I thought we got them with a piece of Poland ... and the difference ... well, Catholics, and?

And in this respect, the Vatican is, of course, an enemy of Russia, since the Vatican is an integral part of the Western camp, with which we have a military-political and economic confrontation, albeit with significant elements of cooperation.

The Vatican had a very big confrontation with the Protestants, which, in principle, he lost. Latin America, completely Catholic, part of the West? Catholic Africa? Our confrontation with the whole world is too tasty a piece. At the same time, it is rather stupid.

[Astra wild]

Colleague Alexander, in my opinion it was not at 30, but earlier. In the mid and late 30s, the existence of the Soviet Union was more relaxed.
And in the early and mid-20s, it was really very difficult then.
I read the memoirs of Maykov, the Soviet ambassador to England, and it tells in detail how the Soviet Union was recognized
P
S
Stalin "grinned into his mustache", and you yourself saw it? Perhaps you have not heard about the Lviv Bishop Sheptytsky? He collaborated with the invaders, but the Soviet authorities had to reckon with him. He could lift 50 people, and the Pope in the 000s could lift tens of millions of people.
Read: Science Religion, Stories of the Catholic Church

[Krasnodar]

British Prime Minister Winston Churchill (1874 - 1965) in his book "World War II" describes an episode when, before the start of World War II, in May 1935, French Foreign Minister Pierre Laval discussed Soviet-French relations with Stalin. During the conversation, he asked Stalin:

"Could you encourage the spread of religion and Catholicism in Russia? It would help me so much with the Pope."

(Can't you do something to encourage religion and the Catholics in Russia? It would help me so much with the Pope).

To this Stalin answered with irony:

"Oh! Daddy" And how many divisions does he have?

("Oho!" Said Stalin. "The Pope! How many divisions has he got?")

In the 30s, but there was no Crusade against Russia from the Vatican

[Aleksandr1971]

There was no crusade because the Pope was no longer able to raise not only millions, but thousands on the campaign. And when the Pope could do it, he did it.
However, hatred for the entire uncontrolled Holy See in the Vatican remained until John Paul (Wojtyla).

Most likely now the Roman Catholic Church has grown kinder due to well-deserved impotence and the approach of its death (which will probably happen not during our lifetime, but on a historical scale soon). All religions, like everything else, have a beginning and an end. And the end of religion is caused by people losing faith in it.

[Astra wild]

I know about it. In your opinion, if a woman is not able to be interested in history

[Alf]

Quote: Krasnodar

"Oh! Daddy" And how many divisions does he have?

And here Comrade Stalin was seriously mistaken. In the hands of the Vatican huge funds and the same huge influence.

[Aleksandr1971]

The ambassador's name was not Maikov, but Maisky Ivan (Lyakhovetsky).

Phrase (no question) "How many divisions does the Pope have?" sounded in May 1935.

French Foreign Minister Pierre Laval asked Stalin to improve the position of Catholics in the USSR so as not to quarrel with the powerful Pope of Rome, to which Stalin, with his characteristic brutal humor, asked: "Pope How many divisions he has."

[Cristall]

Quote: Alexander1971

Somehow in the 30s, the Pope announced a "crusade" against the USSR. To this, the Soviet press made a fuss about aggressive plans from the Catholic world.

why didn't they write about attempts to help the starving in the USSR? Or is it bad for Russia too?

[3x3zsave]

But what about the Vatican archives, which hide the truth about Holy Aryan Tartary? The enemies! As it is, enemies !!!

[Krasnodar]

In my opinion, the master under the nickname Alexander 1971 is everyone's favorite author of VO Samsonov

[3x3zsave]

The aforementioned shturmban-shepherd does not stoop to communicate with the feed base. For 4 years at the forum, I have never seen this.

[Krasnodar]

Well, maybe you decided to travel the open spaces of VO incognito? ))

[3x3zsave]

Like, "grow, Borya, grow, my dear, we'll kill you in the fall"? No, not his style.

[Krasnodar]

Then a like-minded person. And the namesake.

[3x3zsave]

1. I don’t think, “There should be one hero!”, Because not everyone can hear “voices”! (By the way, anology with the Union)
2. maybe

[Astra wild]

Generally, by "wisdom" is close

[Cristall]

Quote: Krasnodar

The Vatican has done something bad for Russia over the past two hundred years, say?

Relations between the SP (Holy See) and Russia have long been established. If we take historically from the Kyrgyz Republic (what the Russian Federation and Ukraine claim) then
In 988 (the year of the baptism of Rus), the Grand Duke of Kiev Vladimir received the ambassadors of Pope John XV.
In January 1707, Prince B.I.Kurakin went to Rome with a private secret letter of Peter I
The Holy See is represented by an accredited Apostolic Nuncio in Moscow. The Russian Federation is represented by the Ambassador Extraordinary and Plenipotentiary to the Vatican. According to data for 2020, they are A.A. Avdeev, the post of apostolic nuncio is vacant.
By the way, the relationship is excellent. There are no controversial points for a long time.

[Astra wild]

Quote: Alexander1971

I am a patriot of Russia. And to all the other adversaries, including the Vatican, I sincerely wish a speedy death. Let everyone in the West become non-traditional black transsexuals. By the way, it has long been known that the Vatican is a real den of boy lovers.

"Only for God's sake, do not confuse nationalism with patriotism! Patriotism is love for one's own people, and nationalism is dislike for someone else's. A patriot knows very well that there are no bad and good nations, there are only bad and good people. A nationalist always thinks in categories:" ours-strangers "," ours-not ours "
Boris Strugatsky

[Cristall]

Quote: Alexander1971

In view of the newfangled indulgences, it is necessary that only men, but also women, and at the same time transsexuals, including transsexuals, should be allowed into the Swiss guard. unconventional orientation.

there are strict Catholic traditions.
In addition, you need to serve, pass a competition, do without women / partner
They are very strict about discipline ... no weed or liberties ...
Well, not for women and blacks all this ...

[Avior]

In the Vatican, I saw only one guard in a striped uniform. He stood on the left at St. Peter's Cathedral near some entrance.

[Blacksmith 55]

Thank you for the article . Informative .
But I got the impression that there is more information in the comments than in the article.
Very succinctly written.

[Moskovit]

Here I filmed them. I was also surprised that one was wearing glasses. Really, I think, there were no big-eyed guards). It was also unclear how they would be able to protect the Vatican with a saber and halberd. At that time, Rome was filled with soldiers on MRAPs in full combat gear, even with grenades), but here is such a vintage).

[Avior]

At that time, Rome was filled with soldiers on MRAPs in full combat gear

About three years ago in the summer I saw a similar thing. And in Rome and Florence. Armed to the teeth.
They looked very fit and with a very tenacious gaze. I wanted to take it off, they noticed and banned it with a gesture. Didn't take pictures.

[Moskovit]

Yes Yes. In 2017. Concrete blocks. Soldiers. They also threatened me with a finger, but took a picture of one.

[Avior]

This one also has a characteristic tenacious look, not distracted for a second. In Florence, near the cathedral, he made an expressive hand gesture to me, so I changed my mind and decided not to shoot.

[Astra wild]

When I immediately looked at the photo and thought: he was put on a chain. Then I saw what was behind him

[3x3zsave]

In Israel, the first thing the hotel guides do is warn: "Don't take pictures of armed men." However, this rule does not apply everywhere. Fighters of the "Karakol" unit willingly pose for tourists on the Jordan. The Lord saved me from photographs in Jerusalem, 4 hours later ...

[Krasnodar]

Quote: 3x3zsave

In Israel, the first thing the hotel guides do is warn: "Don't take pictures of armed men." However, this rule does not apply everywhere. Fighters of the "Karakol" unit willingly pose for tourists on the Jordan. The Lord saved me from photographs in Jerusalem, 4 hours later ...

Anton, tourists were constantly taking pictures with us)). I even managed to get a couple of kopecks off them a couple of times for that.

[Bersaglieri]

Alpini is on patrol. Illegals and other marginals are caught.

[Astra wild]

"in Florence", but in Florence there are no longer Swiss guards, but we talked about them

[Liam]

Since then and for almost 500 years it is on this day that the recruits of the guardsmen take the oath.

.
The coronavirus has broken this tradition as well: this year, due to the pandemic, the oath was postponed to October 4

[AK1972]

Very interesting article. Thanks to the author. On my own behalf, I can add that when hiring for the service, it is highly desirable that the candidate be the son or close relative of the Guardsman who served the Pope, or at least have a letter of recommendation from such.

[Astra wild]

Quote: Sea Cat

I know. And that, stood right up to the ninetieth year - healthy conservatism, just in the spirit of the Vatican. ))

Perhaps it's the quality? In the United States, the Colt M1911 remained in service until the 90s. Only with the Colt's receiver, something goes wrong: they adopted the Beretta, and after a while let's look for a replacement for the Beretta. They seem to have chosen ZIG

[3x3zsave]

You are right sig p320

[Astra wild]

Quote: Alexander1971

There was no crusade because the Pope was no longer able to raise not only millions, but thousands on the campaign. And when the Pope could do it, he did it.
However, hatred for the entire uncontrolled Holy See in the Vatican remained until John Paul (Wojtyla).

Most likely now the Roman Catholic Church has grown kinder due to well-deserved impotence and the approach of its death (which will probably happen not during our lifetime, but on a historical scale soon). All religions, like everything else, have a beginning and an end. And the end of religion is caused by people losing faith in it.

I agree with this statement, and +, although I feel antipathy.

[Liam]

Quote: Astra wild

I agree with this statement, and +, although I feel antipathy.

The number of Catholics in the world has been continuously growing over the past decades, both in absolute and relative numbers.

[3x3zsave]

I do not find anything wrong with Catholicism, even though it is Orthodox. On my chest I wear the symbol of "fish", bought in Israel ... Such, damn it, Christianity ...

[Krasnodar]

Fish is a symbol of infinity))

[stalkerwalker]

Quote: Krasnodar

Fish is a symbol of infinity)

... Or belonging to the sect of Jehovah's followers ..

[Liam]

Quote: Krasnodar

Fish is a symbol of infinity))

Swordfish?)

[Krasnodar]

No - just a fish. )) Schematic

[3x3zsave]

Early Christian symbol.

[Krasnodar]

"I will make you fishers of people" (c)

[Liam]

Was several times at the masses, nothing bad happened to me)

[Krasnodar]

Quote: Liam

Was several times at the masses, nothing bad happened to me)

So they seem to be harmless - what was going to happen there? ))

[Liam]

Even our father matches up to the comma)

[Krasnodar]

Difference from other Christian denominations - lack of icons?

[AK1972]

Quote: Krasnodar

Difference from other Christian denominations - lack of icons?

Once upon a time I read that the main difference that led to the division of the churches is the disagreement on the issue of the table on the ranks of the hypostases of God within the trinity. Someone puts in the first place the Father, and someone the Holy Spirit.

[Krasnodar]

The difference in this from the Orthodox Witnesses, say?

[Liam]

Why is it. The Czestochowa Icon of the Mother of God.

[Krasnodar]

So what's the main difference?

[Liam]

There are many of them, both conceptual and mercurial
Purgatory
Christ's conception
Role of the Pope
Baptism

[Krasnodar]

What is the difference between Catholics and Orthodox, I know)). I asked about Jehovah's Witnesses

[Liam]

What have I to do with the Witnesses?) You asked about icons from Catholics like

[Krasnodar]

I misunderstood you))
I know that Catholics have icons, I also read about the main differences

[Krasnodar]

Quote: 3x3zsave

I do not find anything wrong with Catholicism, even though it is Orthodox. On my chest I wear the symbol of "fish", bought in Israel ... Such, damn it, Christianity ...

Christianity is the belief that Christ is the Messiah who came to the salvation of all those who believe in him, who are the New Israel. The rest is nuance. As far as I understand.

[3x3zsave]

I, exactly like you, assume that God is one, and providers are different.

[Krasnodar]

That's right))

[Bersaglieri]

Not a bad position on this topic

[Xenofont]

The author did not say the most important thing, that in the 16th century the Swiss were the best infantry in Europe until the appearance of the Spanish infantry with its "thirds", which took both tactics and formation from the Swiss, and became, subsequently, practically invincible. Moreover, not only in European wars, but also in the fight against the Turks. The Great Siege of Malta, for example.