Military Review

Holland-class patrol ships (Netherlands)

80

The lead ship of the series is Zr.Ms. Holland (P840)


In 2012, the lead patrol ship, pr. Holland, entered the Royal Netherlands Navy. Further the fleet three more such ships were handed over. At the moment, they are serving and protecting the exclusive economic zone both in the North Sea and near territories in the Caribbean.

Promising project


In 2005, the military-political leadership of the Netherlands approved a new development strategy for the KVMS. Among other things, the document proposed to write off and sell several frigates pr. Karel Doorman. The money from the sale, supplemented by the savings in operating funds, was to be used to build new types of ships, including several patrol ones. Such units were considered more useful and valuable for defense in the foreseeable future.

In December 2007, the military department and the shipbuilding company Damen Shipyards Group signed an agreement to develop a new patrol ship project with the subsequent construction of four hulls. The total cost of the work was estimated at 467,8 million euros. The project was named Holland after the lead ship.


The customer demanded to create a multipurpose warship with artillery and machine-gun armament for use in the coastal zone against surface and air targets. The electronic complex should have been made as automated as possible and the crew had to be reduced to 50 people. There were special requirements for protection and survivability, for living conditions, etc. At the same time, the ship could do without stealth technology. One of the main requirements stipulated the minimum cost of construction.

Construction process


Under the terms of the 2007 contract, the construction of the ships was to be carried out at two sites of the contractor company. On December 8, 2008, construction of the lead ship Zr.Ms. began at the Damen plant in Vlissingen. Holland (P840). In February 2010, it was launched, and in May 2011 it was handed over to the customer. The second ship in the series, Zr.Ms. Zeeland (P841) has been under construction since October 5, 2009 and was launched in November 2010. In October of the following year, he was transferred to the fleet.

In November 2009 and April 2010, the construction of the ships Friesland (P842) and Groningen (P843) began at the Damen Shipyards Galați (Galati, Romania). They were completed in 2011-12. and then surrendered to the fleet.

An interesting fact is that the KVMS accepted new ships in incomplete configuration. After acceptance, they were sent to the plant in Vlissingen, where the integrated IM-400 mast structure was installed on them. After that, starting in 2012, the ships were in service. In mid-2014, all four Holland-class ships entered service and reached full combat readiness.


Holland, aft view

design Features


When developing the Holland ships, the experience of previous projects was taken into account, rethought taking into account new requirements. These ships are 108 m long and 16 m wide, with a normal draft of 4,55 m and a displacement of up to 3750 tons. The hull design ensures operation in the coastal and oceanic zones. The sides of the superstructure smoothly mate with the hull. Armored and reinforced units, duplication of systems, etc. are widely used in the design of the ship.

The ships received a power plant of the CODELOD type - combined with a diesel or diesel-electric propulsion. It includes two diesel engines MAN 12V28 / 33D with a capacity of 5400 kW and two electric engines of 400 kW each, receiving energy from a plant with three generators of 968 kW each. Diesel and diesel-electric motors are used alternately. They are connected to a gearbox that delivers power to two propellers. There is a bow thruster.

Holland can reach speeds of 21,5 knots under the main diesels. The patrol uses diesel-electric travel at a speed of 15 knots. At the same time, the maximum cruising range reaches 5 thousand miles. The main rudder and thruster ensure high maneuverability.

General ship systems and main mechanisms are controlled by the integrated control system developed by Imtech Marin. An important feature is the abandonment of the usual consoles at the posts in favor of multipurpose access points throughout the ship. An automated data processing and control system is used on the navigating bridge, so that only two people can carry a navigational watch.


Zr.Ms. Zeeland (P841)

The Combat Information Center is organized on the basis of the BIUS and a number of automated workstations. The reception, processing and issuance of the maximum possible amount of information is provided, as well as weapons control. In terms of software, the CIC for the Hollands is unified with the centers of other modern ships.

The main electronic systems of the ship are located on the IM-400 mast structure developed by Thales Netherland. Various radar antennas, communications, etc. are placed under the pyramidal radio-transparent casing. The observation of the air situation is provided by the SeaMaster 400 SMILE radar, the surface situation is monitored using the SeaWatcher 100. There is an optical-electronic station GateKeeper. The ship is capable of tracking up to 1000 targets at ranges of up to 250 km, as well as aiming weapons at them.

The ship has a 76 mm Oto Melara Super Rapid artillery mount. The ships also received two Oto Melara Marlin WS installations with 30-mm machine guns and two Oto Melara Hitrole NT combat modules with 12,7-mm machine guns. All these weapons are remotely controlled from the CIC. Six installations for machine guns of normal caliber are placed along the perimeter of the ship. Due to the specific tactical role, there are no integrated missile weapons or anti-submarine systems.

In the stern of the superstructure there is a hangar for the NH-90 helicopter. Takeoff and landing are carried out at the stern platform. The helicopter is proposed to be used in search and rescue and other missions that do not require special equipment or weapons. The superstructure has space for the transport of two motor boats. Another boat is stored under the flight deck. There is a place for a standard container with certain goods. A crane is located behind the superstructure on the starboard side.


Zr.Ms. Friesland (P842)

The crew includes 50-54 people. - almost three times less than on the Dutch ships of previous projects. The crew is accommodated in cabins for officers, foremen and sailors. Additional rooms for 40 people are provided under the hangar deck. The autonomy of the ship in terms of reserves is 21 days. An interesting innovation of the project is the galley, which is optimized for the use of semi-finished products without direct cooking on board.

Patrol service


The lead ship Zr.Ms. Holland (P840) received all the necessary equipment in 2012 and began service. Within two years, three more combat units followed him. Almost immediately they began to be attracted to patrols in the North Sea, in the exclusive economic zone of the Netherlands. A similar service continues without any loud News... The most interesting events are participation in international exercises and escorting foreign warships.

Since 2014, Holland ships have been working in shifts in the Caribbean, near the Netherlands. The specificity of the region leads to remarkable results. For example, in June 2014 the Zr.Ms. Groningen (P843), along with the US Coast Guard, took part in the interception of the drug mafia boat. The crew of the Groningen detained the criminals, and also lifted the cargo they had thrown out of the water.

In 2015, Holland patrol ships took part for the first time in an international anti-piracy operation near the Horn of Africa. The Dutch sailors managed to repel several pirate attacks on merchant ships independently and in cooperation with foreign colleagues.

For your tasks


The Holland project was developed with the aim of providing patrolling of certain water areas in the near sea zone. The new ships were supposed to monitor the situation, identify various objects and, if necessary, use weapon... Due to the nature of the threats in the North and Caribbean Sea, the Hollands did not need powerful strike weapons and received only artillery and machine guns. At the same time, sufficiently developed electronic weapons are used.


Zr.Ms. Groningen (P843)

The experience of operating four ships shows that such a composition of equipment and weapons is sufficient to perform the main functions - to search and capture intruders, protect water areas from pirates and other threats, etc. At the same time, the modernization of ships with the replacement of weapons and the expansion of combat capabilities is not possible without a radical restructuring. However, such modernization is not planned, and shock functions are assigned to other ships.

With the advent of the Holland-class patrol ships, the Netherlands KVMS received a modern specialized tool for protecting shores and coastal waters, protecting shipping, etc. Such ships fully comply with the requirements, and also have an optimal ratio of tactical and technical characteristics and operating costs, which will allow them to stay in service for a long time.
Author:
Photos used:
Damen Shipyards Group / damen.com, Dutch Ministry of Defense
80 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must to register.

I have an account? Sign in

  1. Avior
    Avior 30 August 2020 06: 22 New
    +3
    ... One of the main requirements stipulated the minimum cost of construction.

    Is there an error here?
    1. Thrifty
      Thrifty 30 August 2020 06: 45 New
      10
      Avior - so it does not have missile and torpedo armament, so it is relatively inexpensive for the price, it is purely a patrolman with cannon and machine gun armament!
      1. Winnie76
        Winnie76 30 August 2020 08: 14 New
        +1
        Taking into account the number of electronic gadgets and total automation, the boat is definitely not cheap
      2. Avior
        Avior 30 August 2020 17: 39 New
        +1
        Usually they limit the maximum cost, not the minimum
        1. Motorist
          Motorist 30 August 2020 21: 35 New
          0
          Damen in Vlissingen

          Knowing this plant firsthand, I'm afraid to even imagine the maximum cost.belay
          1. Avior
            Avior 30 August 2020 22: 13 New
            +4
            If I was limited only to the minimum cost, and not the maximum, I would really turn around.
            smile
    2. The leader of the Redskins
      The leader of the Redskins 30 August 2020 07: 38 New
      -1
      How to understand armored units?
      1. Brylevsky
        Brylevsky 30 August 2020 11: 24 New
        +7
        How to understand armored units?

        For example, I understood this as booking individual rooms and posts with Kevlar armor - this method has long been used in the US Navy. Let's say the task is to protect the emergency diesel generator room from the impact of the fragments of the downed anti-ship missile system. The cubic capacity of the room is relatively small, but it is always located above any, even emergency, waterline - and if you use traditional steel plates for booking, then this will negatively affect the stability of the ship, especially the emergency one. Therefore, the room is "sheathed" with layers of Kevlar. High-modulus polyethylene can also be used, in blocks. I find it difficult to say exactly what the author had in mind; nevertheless, such booking methods exist. But it's not a fact what exactly is on this ship.
        1. anzar
          anzar 30 August 2020 20: 44 New
          +1
          Brylevsky- I find it difficult to say exactly what the author meant ...

          AFluorine is also at a loss ..))
  2. Sahalinets
    Sahalinets 30 August 2020 06: 58 New
    +4
    It's just not clear why he needs such a powerful and expensive radar?
    1. Pandiurin
      Pandiurin 30 August 2020 08: 03 New
      +1
      Quote: Sahalinets
      It's just not clear why he needs such a powerful and expensive radar?


      Powerful radar allows you to accurately determine the time.
      The crew knows whether it is time to cuddle with a cannon and a machine gun on pirates in an inflatable boat, yacht, fishing seiner or seabass time.
    2. Postum
      Postum 30 August 2020 13: 20 New
      +1
      So that in the event of a mess it was possible to install missiles and anti-ship missiles without any problems
  3. tralflot1832
    tralflot1832 30 August 2020 08: 47 New
    0
    We don't catch friendly fishermen in the North Sea, we don't catch there. We have nothing to do in this dump. Kyurosoo is there to cover drug trafficking. That's why this "patrol" is so big, from time to time to run across the Atlantic, there would be no colony, the size would be even smaller ... hi
  4. Cyril G ...
    Cyril G ... 30 August 2020 08: 49 New
    15
    About a patrol ship of adequate people. Nobody wants to compare with Project 22160?
    Well then, I'll throw it in. There is a photo at the top of the boat pulling into the stern dock. Perfectly yes!

    But we have a boat trying to crawl into the dock, It's just fine. Calm. The ship is on the stop. And if sorry wave? By the way, it was the intention - the boat should get into the ship on the move ... And what did we end up with?
    1. Sidor Amenpodestovich
      Sidor Amenpodestovich 30 August 2020 09: 29 New
      -9
      Quote: Cyril G ...
      About a patrol ship of adequate people. Nobody wants to compare with Project 22160?

      Are you a specialist in naval technology, or do you dislike 22160 just for company? Say, "well, since the others do not favor him, then I also need it."
      1. Cyril G ...
        Cyril G ... 30 August 2020 09: 36 New
        15
        Quote: Sydor Amenpospestovich
        You are a specialist in naval technology,


        In addition to what I wrote specifically about the entry of the boat, do you have any questions?
        Now I will answer your question - 7 years in the crew of the BOKHR, what is the launch of a boat in bad weather I know on my own skin. Did I answer your question?

        Now about Project 22160 - shit ship. In general and in general wasted money ...
        By the way, would you like to compare pr. 22160 with this?
        1. Sidor Amenpodestovich
          Sidor Amenpodestovich 30 August 2020 09: 49 New
          -5
          Quote: Cyril G ...
          Now about Project 22160 - shit ship. By the way, would you like to compare pr. 22160 with this?

          22160 is smaller. It. as far as I, a layman, noticed the most significant difference.
          22160 in the articles and comments of VOs are watered so voluptuously and verbatim that doubt in the objectivity of such rantings involuntarily creeps in.
          1. Cyril G ...
            Cyril G ... 30 August 2020 10: 16 New
            +5
            Quote: Sydor Amenpospestovich
            22160 is smaller.


            Let me remind you THIS ON A CONCEPT Patrol ship FOR HIKING IN THE Horn of Africa. Displacement no more than 1700 tons. I am telling you again - it is hardly suitable for a long stay of the crew and the platoon of the MP.

            The water is watered so voluptuously and wordy that doubt in the objectivity of such rantings involuntarily creeps in.

            And you don't even have an idea that they say that, because it's just a waste of already little money ..
            1. Sidor Amenpodestovich
              Sidor Amenpodestovich 30 August 2020 10: 42 New
              -4
              Quote: Cyril G ...
              And you don't even have an idea that they say that, because it's just a waste of already little money ..

              There is. But such unanimity is extremely rare, which gives rise to suspicion of the bias of the speakers.
              1. Cyril G ...
                Cyril G ... 30 August 2020 11: 54 New
                +6
                Quote: Sydor Amenpospestovich
                But such unanimity is extremely rare


                Just because the uselessness is quite obvious to people interested in the issue. However, there is an equally interesting point - a number of documents indicate that the ship is also intended to protect the economic zone. Can you tell us what has to do with the naval ship to a purely borderline problem?
                1. Sidor Amenpodestovich
                  Sidor Amenpodestovich 30 August 2020 11: 57 New
                  -3
                  Snippet of Wikipedia article
                  Designed to carry out patrol service for the protection of territorial waters, patrolling a 200-mile exclusive economic zone in the open and closed seas, suppressing smuggling and pirate activities,
                  1. Cyril G ...
                    Cyril G ... 30 August 2020 12: 15 New
                    +2
                    Quote: Sydor Amenpospestovich
                    patrolling a 200-mile exclusive economic zone in the open and closed seas


                    This is the task of SOBR
                    1. Sidor Amenpodestovich
                      Sidor Amenpodestovich 30 August 2020 12: 16 New
                      -2
                      This is the task of SOBR

                      Can't 22160 do it? Is it insufficient or redundant for this task?
                      Insufficient, because it is poorly armed, and redundant because the cruising range and autonomy are too long?
                      Did you want to do something multipurpose, but as a result, in your opinion, neither this nor that happened?
                      1. Cyril G ...
                        Cyril G ... 30 August 2020 12: 28 New
                        +2
                        Quote: Sydor Amenpospestovich
                        Can't 22160 do it?


                        Why should he do it? The fleet has its most serious tasks, but for some reason the fleet buys ships armed with one cannon. Some sort of heresy.
                      2. Hog
                        Hog 30 August 2020 19: 07 New
                        +4
                        Quote: Sydor Amenpospestovich
                        Can't 22160 do it? Is it insufficient or redundant for this task?

                        These are not the tasks of the fleet, there is a coast guard for this.
                      3. Alexey RA
                        Alexey RA 31 August 2020 13: 41 New
                        +1
                        Quote: Sydor Amenpospestovich
                        Can't 22160 do it? Is it insufficient or redundant for this task?

                        Everything is simpler - it is beyond the competence of the fleet. The FSB is legally responsible for guarding terrorist forces, supervising the economic zone and suppressing smuggling. The Navy is just superfluous there.
    2. seos
      seos 30 August 2020 09: 49 New
      -18
      22160 is an excellent ship, it is more versatile than its competitor described in this article. It is able to perform much more functions due to modularity and is several times cheaper. Despite the fact that by most indicators 22160 bypasses these Hollands, more speed, autonomy, stronger weapons, + modules.
      For the Russian fleet, project 22160 is of greater importance than all other projects of Russian ships.
      But in Russia, our stupid people-experts, by inertia, continue to hate this patrol ship, comparing it with American destroyers or with imperial death stars ...
      1. Cyril G ...
        Cyril G ... 30 August 2020 10: 12 New
        +9
        Quote: seos
        Capable of performing many more functions

        Tell us about the anti-submarine and anti-aircraft capabilities of Project 22160. I will listen with pleasure ...
        more speed, autonomy, stronger weapons, + modules.

        Lies. For all 4 items. Starting with the power plant, the ship was not designed for Kolomna diesel engines. They are a forced and non-optimal solution. Import was supposed. Strong weapons - what are you talking about? About AK-176 and Gibka !!!! ?? It's all. There were no and no adequate containers. And it is unlikely that the conceptions will be brought to a combat state ...
        For the Russian fleet, project 22160 is of greater importance than all other projects of Russian ships.

        What !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You're delusional ...
        1. Sidor Amenpodestovich
          Sidor Amenpodestovich 30 August 2020 11: 32 New
          -3
          Quote: Cyril G ...
          There were no and no adequate containers. And it is unlikely that the conceptions will be brought to a combat state ...

          On what basis do you make such a categorical statement?
          1. Cyril G ...
            Cyril G ... 30 August 2020 11: 57 New
            +4
            Look at the end of the Stanflex story.

            Do you know what it is?
        2. Brylevsky
          Brylevsky 30 August 2020 11: 49 New
          +4
          You're delusional ...

          This is not nonsense. This is a lack of knowledge and understanding of the specifics of the case.
      2. Brylevsky
        Brylevsky 30 August 2020 11: 44 New
        11
        22160 is an excellent ship, it is more versatile than its competitor described in this article.

        But the boat of the inspection group at sea will not call on it ... without damaging itself and the ship. The seaman immediately understands this, as soon as he looks at the structure of the hatch of such a "slip". From this I conclude for myself that this ship was designed and adopted by people who are very far from the sea and its problems.
      3. Alex 2020
        Alex 2020 31 August 2020 10: 01 New
        0
        Have you seen these modules live? The infrastructure for storing and maintaining them? This is not the wood that you threw under the shed and let it lie. In different countries, they created projects of ships / boats for modular weapons. But after the release of small series and a short operation, these ships / boats were written off due to very high maintenance costs, operation, or at the stage of project development.
        1. Alexey RA
          Alexey RA 31 August 2020 13: 44 New
          +1
          Quote: Alex 2020
          In different countries, they created projects of ships / boats for modular weapons. But after the release of small series and a short operation, these ships / boats were written off due to very high maintenance and operation costs.

          Not certainly in that way. The concept of replaceable modules was scrapped. And the ships were operated further, but with a constant set of modules throughout their entire service life.
          1. Alex 2020
            Alex 2020 31 August 2020 15: 22 New
            0
            Yes you are right. It was I who inaccurately expressed my thought) Tupim, after work)
        2. strannik1985
          strannik1985 1 September 2020 10: 03 New
          +1
          Have you seen these modules live?

          It is a little more complicated there, the idea that came down to the series in iron was born in the Danish Navy (boats "Fluvefixen") during the Cold War, then the Danish naval sailors had two main tasks - the intended purpose and the mining of the Danish Strait, under such conditions everything is fine, with the beginning b / d or during the threatened period, they took a maximum of mines, set the MH, then who is the rescuer, who is PLO, etc.
    3. We are for our
      We are for our 30 August 2020 10: 45 New
      -3
      22160 is two times less in displacement and many times cheaper, you should not even try to compare them.
      Something unhealthy was really stuck with the aft ramp, but such "jambs" are completely removable in the process of modernization.
    4. Doctor
      Doctor 30 August 2020 11: 23 New
      +1

      About a patrol ship of adequate people. Nobody wants to compare with Project 22160?
      Well then, I'll throw it in. There is a photo at the top of the boat pulling into the stern dock. Perfectly yes!

      Or maybe for a patrol to be limited to this?
      Also a Damen project.

      1. Cyril G ...
        Cyril G ... 30 August 2020 12: 12 New
        +8
        Quote: Arzt
        Or maybe for a patrol to be limited to this?


        Then see what the problem is. If we are talking about our waters, then the guard of the FSB is engaged in the protection of the state border and the economic zone. Moreover, most of the ships of the SOBR are relatively small, just that there is a reasonable sufficiency. Their jambs are listed for BOHR, but this is the second question.
        Project 22160 was declared as an "anti-pirate" patrol ship. But here is some kind of logical disaster. To conduct operations in distant waters in / and habitability will be fundamentally insufficient. Above, I put a photo Pole Star... The habitability there is simply gorgeous.
        And in general, in my opinion, it is simply wrong to involve the Navy in law enforcement activities on the seas. For example, the American Guardian is quite successfully engaged in the fight against piracy, drug trafficking, the transport of weapons and other things in all seas. Maybe you should take this experience into account and make changes to FSB Law, in order to attract ships FSB guard to the fight against piracy and other things in international waters.
        1. Doctor
          Doctor 30 August 2020 12: 20 New
          0

          Project 22160 was declared as an "anti-pirate" patrol ship. But here is some kind of logical disaster. To conduct operations in distant waters in / and habitability will be fundamentally insufficient. Above, I put a photo of the North Star. The habitability there is simply gorgeous.

          And with weapons at 22160? Does he need Caliber and Uranus? Does the world practice know the need to use heavy weapons?
          And a helicopter. Is it necessary or not essential?
          And the boat. Is one enough, or two minimum, to insure the search group?
          1. ProkletyiPirat
            ProkletyiPirat 30 August 2020 15: 18 New
            +3
            in general, all that you have listed is not enough even to fight "piracy", simply because in some cases there will not be enough autonomy, and in the second, forces and means at the theater level. That is, the ship itself can perform tasks, but even one Gulf of Aden and the Red Sea will need a lot of such ships, otherwise the "pirates" will "leave" due to the leakage of intelligence from those interested in blocking the Russian trade (from the tolerance of the wording, soldier ) ....
            Conclusion: here either supply bases are needed in the immediate vicinity (which is a priori impossible in all regions), or larger vessels with a large margin of autonomy and a large stock of reconnaissance equipment are needed (discussion of "how big" will be a holivar), or other methods of performing the same tasks are needed ( I personally favor the last option because it is cheaper).
            1. Cyril G ...
              Cyril G ... 30 August 2020 16: 32 New
              +6
              Quote: ProkletyiPirat
              or other methods of performing the same tasks are needed (personally, I am for the last option, because it is cheaper).


              It was necessary to resolve the issue in the shortest possible time, but the admirals traditionally solved the issue simply amazingly, starting a long-term construction. What could be done? But what


              That's what adequate people have done, no match for our multi-star freaks in black uniforms ...
              What we should have done in my opinion:
              Point a. We select several vessels of the BATM / BMRT type in normal condition. we dock, we sort out the diesel engine, we cut off the cranes in the stern, and so on. we build on the runway for landing helicopters + the post of the flight director, we take a couple of DSLs on the slip, modifying everything there accordingly so that we can enter on the move.
              Point b. We mount communication equipment and RER. We install the following weapons - AK-306 + a pair of ZU-23 modified for installation on a ship, 4 MKPV, Gibku. If we find AK-176 in storage, we can put it. It would be nice to add an RSO of type Grad
              Item c. We add protection from small arms fire to the wheelhouse and important combat posts, paint it into a ball and raise the naval flag.
              We organize a watch in dangerous areas.
              1. ProkletyiPirat
                ProkletyiPirat 30 August 2020 23: 44 New
                -3
                What you are describing is the second option: "or you need larger ships with a large margin of autonomy and a large stock of reconnaissance means (discussion of "how big" will holivar) "

                а here is the third option (one of the possible): it is the armament of the civil courts themselves.

                or Here is the third option (of which I am a supporter): we make _SMAK_ (I decipher it as an average multifunctional aviation complex), in fact, it is an aircraft-like military transport aircraft with the following functionality: aircraft-like fuel consumption per unit path, vertical take-off-landing-hovering, aft ramp, lower (bottom (like a bomber)) hatch , a spreader-hoist (similar to that of port container cranes), flight range 5000 + km, cargo compartment size not less than 5 * 5 * 15m, lifting capacity from 10t. In the event of anti-piracy actions, delivery, unloading and loading from water through a spreader-hoist is provided. For example, pirates seized a ship, we deliver an airborne assault boat (DSL) a couple of km (where it is safe to fly an aircraft) and unload the input through a spreader-hoist, then everything is the same as now. Hijacked a liner with passengers? we deliver a mini submarine boat that will secretly come up under water and begin the assault. Pirates on the shore? - we deliver floating armored personnel carriers \ MRAP with 4x4 \ 6x6 chassis, with the possibility of unloading directly into the forest (via a spread-hoist). The main drawback is the aircraft's carrying capacity, it limits the mass of the landing force, this drawback is compensated for by the number, that is, instead of one large DSL for 30 people, we deliver 2/4/6 with a smaller number of troops. Accordingly, a dozen such aircraft completely cover any of our closed seas, in case of problems somewhere in the world, we can transfer them through air refueling, and we can base them even on a patch of land, even on a converted dry cargo ship. Well, they can also perform other tasks, including ASW, fire support of the MTR, bombing, delivery of humanitarian aid, evacuation of citizens and valuable equipment, supply of loyal forces, etc. and so on .. Well, of course, this aircraft is put into service for the MTR \ MIA \ FSB \ VDV and even for the Ministry of Emergencies.
              2. Dante
                Dante Alighieri 1 September 2020 23: 01 New
                +1
                That's what adequate people have done, no match for our multi-star freaks in black uniforms ...

                Namesake, correct if I'm wrong, but this is the brainchild of a gloomy, but very poor Cuban genius. And the need, as you know, is strong for inventions! But are you seriously suggesting that the first gas station in the world should slide down to the level of a reed republic? What about the status? But what about ambition? No, this is definitely not our path! We will go to our own, once again defeating common sense!

                By the way, I did not pay attention to the fact that a turret was also installed between the CD.

                In general, in the place of the Cubans, for patrol purposes, I would make some kind of gunship based on the same AN-12, only with the specifics of working on naval targets. The Chinese production of these airplanes is still alive, so there should be no problems with spare parts, and there, if you wish, you can deploy your own production - tea is not microelectronics.

                By the way, an interesting idea for the Ministry of Defense: to give 22160 to Cuba as a sign of strong allied relations. Can you imagine what kind of opuses will rise among the "progressive public"? Today ships, and tomorrow what? Rockets? Isn't there a reason to think about returning to the INF Treaty? Solid reputation pluses. At the same time, we will write off the ballast and save ourselves from further unreasonable spending on its fine-tuning.
  5. Cyril G ...
    Cyril G ... 30 August 2020 12: 47 New
    0
    Quote: Arzt
    And with weapons at 22160? Does he need Caliber and Uranus? Does the world practice know the need to use heavy weapons?
    And a helicopter. Is it necessary or not essential?
    And the boat. Is one enough, or two minimum, to insure the search group?


    It depends on why. We must dance from tasks. If we need a ship to carry out service in distant waters, then, firstly, its displacement should be at least 5000-6000 tons. Secondly, the anti-ship missile / anti-ship missile and other systems should be on board based on the consideration that in wartime the ship should to some extent be involved in solving problems as part of the formations.
    Respectively. In my opinion, the air group should be at least 2 helicopters, albeit of the Ka-226 type.
    There should be at least 2 assault boats again. One approaches the board, the other insures. Better 4.
    What do we end up with?
    5000-6000 tons, 18-21 knot, runway, 2 Ka-226 helicopters, on board at least half a company of the MP, 4 DShL and a barge in the aft dock chamber.
    Armament, if possible and based on the price.
    So within the sketch ...
    REV - Positive, Minotaur, Platinum, Bagheera.
    Armament - A-190 or Ak-176MA, 2 AK-630, PU Grad, container installation SAM Tor or 2x8 UVP SAM Redut, container installation 2x4 PU KR Caliber 2x4 PU anti-ship missiles Uranus,

    As a basis for the design, I would take Project 11711
    1. Doctor
      Doctor 30 August 2020 13: 08 New
      0
      It depends on why. We must dance from tasks. If we need a ship to carry out service in distant waters, then, firstly, its displacement should be at least 5000-6000 tons.

      Even if there are good bases on the shore?
      Specifically, which ship, in your opinion, is needed to control the Mozambique Strait?
      And how much, counting, reserve, repair, etc.
      The task is to prevent penetration from the mainland to Madagascar.
      1. Cyril G ...
        Cyril G ... 30 August 2020 13: 11 New
        +1
        Quote: Arzt
        Even if there are good bases on the shore?


        Even if there is ..

        Specifically, which ship, in your opinion, is needed to control the Mozambique Strait?

        What is the background to this question?
        1. Doctor
          Doctor 30 August 2020 13: 22 New
          0
          What is the background to this question?

          Book on alternative history. Fleet of Madagascar.
  6. Operator
    Operator 30 August 2020 13: 17 New
    -4
    4 Ktn XNUMX-inch self-propelled barge - it is easier to patrol the near sea zone using UAVs (for radar and optoelectronic control) and shore-based helicopters (for disembarking inspection teams).

    PS Particularly amusing was the "participation" of a vessel with a 20-knot speed in the interception of high-speed boats with a 50-knot speed laughing
    1. Brylevsky
      Brylevsky 30 August 2020 13: 47 New
      10
      I was especially amused by the "participation" of a 20-knot vessel in intercepting 50-knot speed boats laughing

      Why did you decide that a patrol ship would chase every speed boat? For this he has: 1) a helicopter (including with anti-submarine or anti-ship weapons); 2) Two high-speed boats for inspection teams, Special Force Craft. As a last resort, the patrol boat may use its weapon. As you can see, there is no direct need to play catch-up.
      1. Operator
        Operator 30 August 2020 13: 52 New
        -2
        What such weapon can a self-propelled three-inch barge use against a 50-knot highly maneuverable boat (unless it goes to ram) and how do you imagine the catch-up between a boat with an armed crew and a motor boat with inflatable boards?

        The point is that coastal-based helicopters in combination with UAV RLOs rule in the near sea zone.
        1. Brylevsky
          Brylevsky 30 August 2020 14: 14 New
          +6
          What such weapon can a self-propelled three-inch barge use against a 50-knot highly maneuverable boat?

          Are you kidding? Automatic cannons and machine guns, for example. Or will a boat with a speed of about 25 m / s "run away" from a projectile or a bullet flying at a speed of 600-800 m / s? Well, the patrol ship will spend not one, but one hundred and one shots to defeat the target, so what? I'm trying to understand your logic, and I can't: do you think you can run away from a bullet or a projectile?
          1. Operator
            Operator 30 August 2020 14: 20 New
            -1
            How will a 20-knot barge come within direct artillery range of a 50-knot boat?
            1. Brylevsky
              Brylevsky 30 August 2020 19: 35 New
              +3
              How will a 20-knot barge come within direct artillery range of a 50-knot boat?

              No way. But it's not that. The very fact that the target is moving at a speed of 50 knots will tell the commander of the patrol ship something? I would say ... For example, the fact that normal ships do not go at that speed. Therefore, if it is not on the AIS, then it is not a high-speed passenger ship; Consequently, if the target does not respond to my signals, does not respond to requests, does not follow the instructions to drift and take on board the inspection team, then I will take a helicopter into the air with the task of forcing such a vessel to stop. You consider the situation too discretely, concentrating on the particulars, but it must be considered in general, with the involvement of all forces and means. Can't be solved by artillery? OK, we use deck or, if it is not enough, basic patrol aircraft. If this is not enough, there are ships with missiles.
              1. Operator
                Operator 30 August 2020 20: 03 New
                -2
                The enumeration of the border of the near sea zone by a high-speed target without a transponder should say something not to the captain of the barge, but to the operator on duty of the coastal control center for the surface situation, receiving data from the UAV within a radius of 400 km - and the accuracy is higher and the productivity is several orders of magnitude higher.

                After that, a coastal-based helicopter takes off to intercept the target at a speed of 300 km / h and an assault force with an ATGM on board.
            2. SovAr238A
              SovAr238A 31 August 2020 12: 33 New
              +2
              Quote: Operator
              How will a 20-knot barge come within direct artillery range of a 50-knot boat?

              Very simple.
              Patrol boats usually patrol (oil-in-oil) the routes of ships.
              And with a powerful radar, they can advance to the lead point, withdraw boarding teams, send a helicopter.

              And do not play stupid catch-up.
              1. Operator
                Operator 31 August 2020 19: 48 New
                -3
                Three high-speed boats approach the control zone: one without drugs (like we are resting in a 200-mile zone) is intercepted by a barge, another without drugs - by an inspection team from its deck helicopter, and the third with drugs freely passes through the zone.
                1. SovAr238A
                  SovAr238A 31 August 2020 21: 49 New
                  +2
                  Quote: Operator
                  Three high-speed boats approach the control zone: one without drugs (like we are resting in a 200-mile zone) is intercepted by a barge, another without drugs - by an inspection team from its deck helicopter, and the third with drugs freely passes through the zone.

                  Now guess which boat the patrol will go to, which will the helicopter fly to, and which will be sent, a Coast Guard helicopter called by the patrol ship?

                  And how will drug dealers decide which boat to put drugs in?
                  1. Operator
                    Operator 31 August 2020 22: 51 New
                    -1
                    The last boat in turn, obviously.

                    PS If there are coastal-based helicopters, then what about an accordion-barge worth 120 million euros? laughing
        2. Brylevsky
          Brylevsky 30 August 2020 14: 17 New
          +2
          how do you imagine the catch-up between a boat with an armed crew and a motor boat with inflatable boards?

          No way. What for? In the event of armed resistance, the patrol ship will use its weapon, no options. And he will be right.
    2. Brylevsky
      Brylevsky 30 August 2020 14: 07 New
      +7
      it is easier to patrol the near sea zone using a UAV

      And what - flying weather always reigns in the sea? And there are all-weather UAVs?
      1. Operator
        Operator 30 August 2020 14: 15 New
        -6
        The summer weather over the sea is practically all year round - except for the passage of typhoons / hurricons, but then ships cannot use their weapons, launch motor boats and raise deck helicopters into the air. Moreover, the limitations in terms of ballistic properties of ships are several times stricter than those of UAVs and coastal-based helicopters.

        The landing of rescuers from US Coast Guard helicopters on ships in distress and the return of people in general are made in any weather.
        1. Brylevsky
          Brylevsky 30 August 2020 14: 35 New
          +4
          but then the ships also cannot use their weapons, launch motor boats and lift deck helicopters into the air.

          They can use artillery weapons, they are stabilized. Another question is whether "high-speed, highly maneuverable boats" at 50 knots will go out to sea in such weather? What will remain of their 50-nodal travel when they meet at least a XNUMX-meter wave? And will they themselves remain afloat after that?
          Summer weather over the sea is almost year-round - except for the passage of typhoons / hurricons

          Strong wind at sea is constant. Good weather, which does not interfere with flight safety, reigns only in the equatorial zone. I repeat my question: are there all-weather UAVs?
          The landing of rescuers from US Coast Guard helicopters on ships in distress and the return of people in general are made in any weather.

          Is that so with anyone? Or, nevertheless, there are restrictions on weather conditions? Please give a link to the source of information - I want to get acquainted.
          1. Operator
            Operator 30 August 2020 15: 51 New
            -4
            UAVs RLS fly at an altitude of 12 km or more - what does the weather have to do with sea level?

            Modern marine boats have a "deep V" hull and high power density, which allows them to sail at full speed in conditions of 3-point roughness of the sea. In the range of 4-5 points, offshore boats and Dutch barges reduce their speed proportionally. At 6 points (a rare case in the Caribbean and North Seas), the artillery armament of the Dutch barge becomes useless, motor boats do not descend into the water, and the deck helicopter does not rise into the air.

            Shore-based helicopter operation in a storm

            1. Brylevsky
              Brylevsky 30 August 2020 18: 45 New
              +3
              Shore-based helicopter operation in a storm

              The video is, of course, spectacular. But I was waiting for another source ... for example, some of the flight instructions for the helicopter crew or something from the US CG rules ... Well, God bless her, with a link to the guidance document ... as I understand it, you have she's gone. Do you think it is possible for a small boat to sail at 50 knots under the weather conditions shown in the video?
              In the range of 4-5 points, offshore boats and Dutch barges reduce their speed proportionally.

              I advise you to look at the Beaufort scale in order to understand, according to it, the strength of the wind - or do you think that a boat with a displacement of, say, 20 tons, has the same seaworthiness as a ship with a displacement of 3700 tons? And with a wind speed of 19 m / s (5 points on the Beaufort scale), in your opinion, they reduce the speed "proportionally" !? You are deluded, and strongly. A wind of 5 points corresponds to a wave height of 1.25 - 2.5 meters - if such a wave "arrives" on a sea vessel weighing 20 tons and 3700 tons, the consequences for the vessels will be the same, or what? And learn some physics for a start ...
              With a wind of 6 points, the ship will not need artillery or any other weaponry: a wave 2.5-4 meters high (6 wind points!) Will simply kill the boat: it will either overturn it or cause serious structural damage. There can be no question of any 50 nodes ...
              UAVs RLS fly at an altitude of 12 km or more - what does the weather have to do with sea level?

              You’re not talking about that at all. No one begs for the tactical merits of UAVs and helicopters. Who will be only to escort or even drag the detained or damaged intruder ship to the port? UAV or helicopter? Spetsnaz, which from the helicopter to board the boat? And if she, stupidly, does not have enough fuel to reach the port? Or if weather conditions would not allow the inspection team to be on board? Then it will definitely have to be taken in tow! It's too early to give up patrol ships ...
              1. Brylevsky
                Brylevsky 30 August 2020 18: 53 New
                +2
                With 6 points (rare in the Caribbean and North Seas)

                Unfortunately no. I don’t know about the Caribbean, I haven’t been there for a long time, but in the North Sea a wave of 1.5 - 2.5 meters has become regular in the last 3 months, especially to the south-west of Cape Skagen ... The climate on Earth is changing and the North Sea is no exception ...
              2. Operator
                Operator 30 August 2020 19: 05 New
                -3
                Why drag an intruder boat to the port in tow, when it can be immobilized by launching an ATGM from a helicopter into the engine compartment or, conversely, driven into the port on its own by landing a helicopter assault? While the Dutch barge is towing one intruder boat, a dozen others will freely pass the protected area.

                Race on the waves on heavy duty boats
                [media = https: //vk.com/video-36001673_166206376]

                Ocean boats Offshore Class 1 (800 hp, 110 knots)
                https://www.popmech.ru/adrenalin/6650-klassnye-gonki-chelovek-i-mashina-protiv-morya/
                1. Brylevsky
                  Brylevsky 30 August 2020 20: 13 New
                  +1
                  Why drag an intruder boat to port

                  Then, to comply with legal formalities. No body, no action. The boat can (and most likely will) be contraband, which is objective evidence of the guilt of the boat crew.
                  it can be immobilized by launching an ATGM from a helicopter into the engine compartment

                  You can also immobilize. And you can drown in this way ... Then see the point: "No body, no work."
                  or, conversely, drive off to the port on their own by landing a helicopter assault?

                  I already wrote about this. The boat may not have enough fuel to reach the port.

                  Speaking of fuel! I looked, read your links, thanks for the info. As I understand it, the power reserve of such “power boats” is about 200 km? My friend, this is not serious for the sea ... considering that at the time of discovery it will have covered some distance, it will not have a long time to “flutter” ...
                  1. Operator
                    Operator 30 August 2020 21: 22 New
                    0
                    Offshore Class 1 is a complete extreme, smugglers use seagoing boats with the same deep V, but with much less powerful engines and, accordingly, increased cruising range.

                    During the disembarkation of the inspection team on the boat, anything can happen, up to the crew cutting the electrical wiring and fuel lines. But it is always possible to lift some of the smuggled cargo and the crew (at least the captain) onto the helicopter in order to conduct an investigation on the shore. After that, subsequent smugglers (remembering the fate of their colleagues who remained on board the boat without a move) will forever lose the desire to prevent the supervised ferry of boats to the port.
                    1. Brylevsky
                      Brylevsky 30 August 2020 22: 57 New
                      +2
                      Sorry, something I did not come across publications about the fact that smugglers in Europe or Latin America use power boats Offshore Class 1, can you share a link? I read about improvised submarines; I read about containers welded to the bottoms of ships; about boats like the one you named - no. I met poachers, about the following:



                      as well as pirates, something like this:


                      smugglers use seagoing boats with the same deep V, but with much less powerful engines and, accordingly, increased cruising range.

                      Even if this is so, then they will not have the speed that power boats Offshore Class 1 can have - motors of lower power cost ... In any case, neither one nor the other will get away from the helicopter.
                      But you can always lift some of the smuggled cargo and the crew (at least the captain) onto a helicopter to conduct an investigation on the shore.

                      May the commander of a patrol ship never do that. He will move at full speed to the detained boat, while the inspection team will keep his crew at gunpoint and carry out a search, photo and video recording and an approximate calculation of the seized contraband cargo. The boat will be escorted or towed to the nearest port for further investigation. This is how it is done in reality.
                      1. Operator
                        Operator 30 August 2020 23: 50 New
                        0
                        What we are talking about - while the barge is going to the detained boat and, moreover, towing it to the port, a multiple of the number of boats will freely enter the restricted area.

                        When using a shore-based helicopter, the body will be provided in any case - the captain, taken aboard the helicopter along with a sample of the contraband cargo.

                        However, we repeat ourselves laughing

                        The speedboats, popular with American millionaires as a means of sea recreation, are the main transport of Colombian drug traffickers in the Caribbean.
  7. Baron pardus
    Baron pardus 30 August 2020 20: 13 New
    +4
    I don't understand the tendencies of modern shipbuilding at all. Ships with neither armor nor weapons are being built. Rather, there is armament, but as a percentage of displacement - ridiculous. Compare with the ships of the Second World For example. Destroyers Allen M Sumner. Far from being huge ships. 2600 tons of displacement. And they carried weapons dofiga: 3x2 127mm guns 43 tons each installation. 12 bofors, 2x4 barrels (11 tons each) and 2x2 barrels 5.5 tons each (some ships had even more anti-aircraft guns) Plus up to a heap of 12x20mm Erlikons 500kg each. Plus 2x5TA (Emnip 20 tons each). Plus Bombers (whose weight I can't find) plus depth charges. In total, WITHOUT ammunition and without anti-submarine weapons, each of these ships carried 208 tons of weapons. And this is NOT counting the weight of the torpedoes themselves. Which is another 15000kg. Each somewhere 1500kg ,. That is, we can safely say that the Sumners carried 10% of their own displacement in weapons. By the way, they even had armor, 12.7mm-20mm. And this is also weight. They carried 504 tons of fuel and could reach speeds of 36 knots. Range 11000 km at 15 knots.

    By the way, the 127mm Burke Alley rig weighs 25 tons. Falanx (with radar) weighs 6 tons. Engines have become both lighter and more economical since the Second World War. The systems are automated and require fewer servants. And if so, then the crew is smaller and less space / food / amenities are needed. Yes, radars and computers. But the Sumners also had Radars. By the way, for example, the AN / SPS-40B air defense radar from Spruens weighed 5000kg. Air defense radar Sugar Charlie from Sumner 1500kg, that is, the electronics and acoustics on the sumner were not weightless. Range Type 45 - 13000 km at 18 knots. Better than Sumner, of course, but given the fact that engine technology has not stood still for 60 years, this is not surprising. Modern destroyers have a displacement of 8000 tons (type 45) and above. Where did all this displacement go? Well, they do not carry 10% of their displacement in weapons. The helicopters themselves weigh about 3500KG (British Lynx, for example). This is less than 2x2 bofors. I just do not understand what all the displacement goes to. With economical and lighter engines, with a smaller crew (On Sumner 350, on Type 45 200). I just don't understand.
    1. Brylevsky
      Brylevsky 30 August 2020 20: 51 New
      +2
      Where did all this displacement go? Well, they do not carry 10% of their displacement in weapons.

      Perhaps it went into the stock of buoyancy and stability? To improve seaworthiness. Modern ships are built taking into account more stringent requirements compared to the past. I am not a shipbuilder, I am an operator, I just assumed ... because I have no other intelligible explanation for this phenomenon. Have you done significant analytical work? wink hi
    2. Avior
      Avior 30 August 2020 22: 30 New
      +3
      Have you read McLean about the living conditions on Her Majesty's cruiser Ulysses during World War II? Modern ones do not want to serve in such conditions - here's the increase in displacement.
      The helicopter requires a platform, a hangar, additional facilities, fuel. I remember at Perry there were 80 tons of aviation fuel alone, I don’t know how many at Berks.
      Plus, the amount of modern electronics has grown incomparably.
      Compare Singapore's Formidebl displacement of 3200, which is less than Sumner's total displacement of 3650 tons.
    3. Earthshaker
      Earthshaker 31 August 2020 00: 53 New
      +1
      Helicopter, fuel, zip, weapons, helicopter hangar.
      The habitability has become better, that is, the cabins are more spacious.
      We get large rooms located on top. The higher the load is, the heavier the ballast must be.
      Cable trails, there are more of them.
      Dock camera in the stern.
      Empty room for 40 people. As I understand it, something like a punishment cell for those arrested, or for the rescued.
      Something like that.
    4. Daoden
      Daoden 1 September 2020 14: 44 New
      0
      What previously could only be done by artillery, well, in extreme cases, long-range bombers, can now be done by cruise and other missiles with a range of 500 km. Therefore, all these destroyers and other ships - "as a means of delivering artillery" are no longer needed! Especially in comparison with over-the-horizon rockets.
  8. mvg
    mvg 30 August 2020 21: 11 New
    +3
    Remove this would-be afftor.
  9. Pavel57
    Pavel57 31 August 2020 12: 13 New
    +3
    The author has gracefully bypassed the comparison with Project 22160.
  10. Bogatyrev
    Bogatyrev 31 August 2020 23: 33 New
    +1
    I don’t understand something, can you explain it to me.
    This is how they scolded Project 22160 - "low-speed", "there is no normal weaponry", "but it could have been an PLO frigate" or another specialized ship, "which the fleet needs so much," "and where such a bunch of grandmothers were thrown."
    Total?
    The 22160 has a GAS, a short-range air defense system and even tactical missiles and anti-ship missiles. Travel 25 knots.
    The Dutchman doesn't have that shit. "Can develop 21,5 knots." Uh-huh. The displacement is 2 TIMES MORE - 3750 tons against our 1800.
    But at the same time, the Dutch have a "modern coastal protection ship", and we have some kind of absurdity.

    Oh, I forgot. The Dutchman's armament is automatically guided through the radar. And here, you must understand, the sailors are still turning the valves as under Tsushima.
  11. hostel
    hostel 7 September 2020 22: 23 New
    0
    Great useless ship