Military Review

Russia and China can jointly create a new generation nuclear submarine

60
Russia and China can jointly create a new generation nuclear submarine

Russia and China can create a new generation of non-nuclear submarine together. This was announced by an official representative of the Federal Service for Military-Technical Cooperation (FSMTC) during the Army-2020 international military-technical forum.


According to the FSMTC representative, Russia and China are currently engaged in joint design of a new generation of non-nuclear submarine. At the same time, he did not explain what kind of submarine the parties want to receive, at what stage the work and other details of the joint project are.

We are currently interacting with the Chinese side on the joint design of a new generation non-nuclear submarine. It's too early to talk about the completion date

- he said.

For our part, we note that recently Russia and China have been building up military-technical cooperation in many areas against the background of confrontation with the United States. Also noted is the cooperation of countries in the civil sphere. In addition, China, along with India, is one of the largest buyers of Russian weapons and equipment. Beijing is highly rated weapon Russian production.

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  1. Grandfather
    Grandfather 25 August 2020 11: 12 New
    0
    anaerobic does not work, have you decided to attract the Chinese? no one else ...
    1. Cyril G ...
      Cyril G ... 25 August 2020 11: 26 New
      -2
      I would personally buy only a couple of DVKD pr.075 with a building in Vladik, with the unification of those laid down in the Crimea, and a few more suppliers ...
    2. Zaurbek
      Zaurbek 25 August 2020 11: 38 New
      -2
      Maybe Li Yon wants to get batteries ..?
      1. venik
        venik 25 August 2020 19: 48 New
        0
        Quote: Zaurbek
        Maybe Li Yon wants to get batteries ..?

        ==========
        Perhaps, although unlikely ..... It hurts they are fire hazardous ..... According to some rumors (namely rumors) - the accident with "Losharik" is just from here and the growing problem ... Although I do not presume to assert - these are just rumors ... How much they correspond to the truth - request
    3. Mavrikiy
      Mavrikiy 25 August 2020 11: 54 New
      +4
      Russia and China can jointly create a new generation nuclear submarine
      fool recourse request It is sad.
      1. Kasym
        Kasym 25 August 2020 13: 09 New
        -1
        Why is it sad? If you look at the diesel-electric submarines of the PRC, then there is Sov.-grew. roots (project 877 \ 636). There is a project "Yuan" - but it is very similar to "Varshavyanka". Most likely Beijing is funding the project. I think this should be beneficial to the Russian Federation. At the expense of the Chinese, give work to the design bureau and get the "foundation" for new diesel-electric submarines. hi
      2. Svetlana
        Svetlana 25 August 2020 13: 21 New
        +3
        Why is it sad? (Just a question)
  2. A. Privalov
    A. Privalov 25 August 2020 11: 16 New
    +7
    can jointly create

    Or maybe NOT to create.
    It's like "you can win a million" or you can NOT win ... hi
    1. Uncle lee
      Uncle lee 25 August 2020 11: 37 New
      +9
      Quote: A. Privalov
      and NOT create

      China is as "reliable" partner as Turkey!
    2. dorz
      dorz 25 August 2020 11: 46 New
      +6
      Russia and China can jointly create a new generation nuclear submarine

      This is a very "profitable" cooperation, Russia will design, and China will build and sell, as with the wide-body CR929 airliner. This is called selling technology to the Chinese, not a business.
      1. Zaurbek
        Zaurbek 25 August 2020 12: 31 New
        0
        This is beneficial for the Russian Federation ... Spending for two. Everyone makes for himself. It is unprofitable for the Russian Federation to make a wide-body aircraft completely. There is no own market, but the foreign one is full. And China has its own market and they want to occupy it themselves. There is no point in changing Boeing and Airbus to a manufacturer from the Russian Federation. Moreover, they do a lot of things themselves in China. They don't need PD-35 either.
        1. dorz
          dorz 25 August 2020 13: 03 New
          +1
          The Chinese will sell the CR929 airliner to the domestic market themselves, which has already been announced and it is generally stupid to create jobs in China.
          "This is beneficial to the Russian Federation ... Spending for two." Only one "state" Sberbank will pay dividends for 2019 in the amount of 422,5 billion rubles ...
          1. Zaurbek
            Zaurbek 25 August 2020 13: 09 New
            +2
            And the Russian Federation will sell itself to its market .... and not buy on the side .... without spending entirely on development .... what's wrong with that? China does not want to buy ready-made aircraft anymore .... 919 also want to do it themselves ...... if PD14 and 35 show reliability, resource and efficiency comparable to Western competitors, then there is a chance to sell them to China. As a finished product.
        2. Hagen
          Hagen 25 August 2020 13: 14 New
          +1
          Quote: Zaurbek
          They don't need PD-35 either.

          It's not there yet ... In general, the developer company gets its own pretty penny for each produced copy. The more aircraft will be produced, the greater the profit of the united design bureau, where we have 50%. Without the Chinese market, the demand for joint creativity will not be high, because the world market is overstocked with Boeings and Watermelons. If we take into account the modernization of aircraft in the production process, then through a joint venture with China, we will gain invaluable experience in wide-body construction technologies. aircraft. With a positive experience of cooperation, with the appearance of a serial PD-35, China will most likely want to create a joint venture for a heavy transport aircraft. Collaboration, with all the risks of technology leakage, is a positive development.
          1. Zaurbek
            Zaurbek 25 August 2020 13: 24 New
            -3
            To do this, you need to know what of the components and assemblies the Russian Federation will do .... China itself will not do everything. CR929 will be similar to MC21 in localization. Its main turbojet engine will be the western 35 tn turbojet engine. And we and China. PD-35, if there is one, will be our local engine for the needs of government services and a turbine for power engineering.
    3. APASUS
      APASUS 25 August 2020 11: 47 New
      +1
      Quote: A. Privalov
      And they may NOT create.
      It's like "you can win a million" or you can NOT win ...

      This is most likely a conversation about Chinese investments, and not about joint projects.
    4. Vladimir_6
      Vladimir_6 25 August 2020 14: 53 New
      +1
      Quote: A. Privalov
      can jointly create

      And they may NOT create.

      Greetings, Alexander! hi
      It is better to create, of course, BUT not together. I would not raise a "monster" by my side, joint projects.
      1. A. Privalov
        A. Privalov 25 August 2020 15: 00 New
        +1
        Quote: Vladimir_6
        I would not raise a "monster" by my side, joint projects.


        And to you, hello. With China, it seems to me
        they realized it late ... I don't want to say anything concrete, but there is some kind of indistinct feeling ...
        1. Vladimir_6
          Vladimir_6 25 August 2020 16: 15 New
          +2
          Quote: A. Privalov
          With China, it seems to me
          they realized it late ... I don't want to say anything concrete, but there is some kind of indistinct feeling ...

          I have had this feeling for a long time. What Iran is for you, China is for Russia. The difference is that Iran is an open enemy for you. And China is supposedly a "friend" of Russia.
  3. Gunther
    Gunther 25 August 2020 11: 16 New
    +3
    In my opinion, this "cooperation" with China does not bode well for Russia - too different "elites" cooperate, the Chinese, unlike ours, works for the benefit of their people, in contrast to our elite.
    Regarding the "high assessment" of Russian weapons by Beijing, the opposite often happens, the Chinese speak derogatoryly about our weapons, but this is understandable - competition, capitalism with a Chinese grin.
    1. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 25 August 2020 11: 39 New
      +8
      Quote: Gunter
      Chinese, unlike ours, works for the benefit of its people

      Mmmm ... this is the same elite who are regularly shot for money stuck to their hands, new ones come to the place of those shot, they also begin to stick to their hands, they are shot - and so on in a circle? wink
      Moreover, those who are sent to be shot have to be shot. For those who guard, it also sticks to their hands - so, in the early 2000s, the $ 8 million confiscated from one of the officials disappeared without a trace in the anti-corruption department of the Supreme People's Prosecutor's Office.
      1. Gunther
        Gunther 25 August 2020 12: 23 New
        0
        Alexey RA, I admit got excited, not the people - the national interests, the Chinese elite, unlike ours, protects the national interests of their country.
        Yes, the "elite" steals, but the lost sheep in China are put up against the wall, and here they are quite well-fed, they pass juvenile laws and prosper in Switzerland in modest houses)
        And yes, you're right - a digital concentration camp is being built in China.
        1. Gunther
          Gunther 25 August 2020 12: 35 New
          +1
          yes, such an administration))))
        2. We are for our
          We are for our 25 August 2020 13: 25 New
          -1
          Yes, the "elite" steals, but the lost sheep are put up against the wall in China
          Either low-ranking officials are put up against the wall, or rivals in power are eliminated. Everything is about the same as in Russia, only we have demonstrative landings instead of executions. And so, they steal in the Celestial Empire no less than ours.
          and in our country they are quite well-fed, they make their way through juvenile laws and thrive in Switzerland in modest houses
          The Chinese party "communist" oligarchy has long been buying up elite real estate and luxury goods and norms all over the world. Ordinary Chinese simply will never know about it, unlike you and us. That's the whole difference.
          digital concentration camp is being built in china.
          a digital concentration camp only for patriots, China provides excellent conditions for everyone else. Again, everything is the same as ours.
      2. Arthur 85
        Arthur 85 25 August 2020 12: 27 New
        +2
        A weak person ... At the age of 25, I would not have stolen a needle or a mountain of gold ... Only I had no brains to lead something. And now, it seems, brains have appeared, but I'm not so sure of my sinless honesty.
      3. Pashhenko Nikolay
        Pashhenko Nikolay 25 August 2020 12: 33 New
        0
        Don't exaggerate. No one was shot last year. One before last. So the money somehow began to stick to the hands of Chinese officials less.
        1. Sergej1972
          Sergej1972 25 August 2020 12: 59 New
          0
          They simply seriously softened many articles of the Criminal Code. What used to be shot for now often ends up simply being imprisoned or imprisoned. And in the PRC, there was, and maybe there is still a practice of sentencing to death with a deferred execution. In practice, after such a sentence, the death penalty is not carried out, even after the end of the deferral.
          1. Pashhenko Nikolay
            Pashhenko Nikolay 25 August 2020 14: 10 New
            0
            Well, judging by the economic success, they are moving in the right direction anyway.
    2. Cyril G ...
      Cyril G ... 26 August 2020 08: 35 New
      +2
      Quote: Gunter
      and this "cooperation" with China does not bode well for Russia -


      I don't have that feeling. China is not our friend, yes. A situational ally no more. But I see two things
      - where 80 percent of the PRC population lives - in the valleys of the great rivers and the coast of the southern seas this time.
      - secondly, the PRC is building the Open Sea Fleet, pumping hundreds of billions of dollars into IT.
      - third, China may twitch to the Russian Far East in exactly one case if the Far East becomes boshoz, and that’s not a fact ...
  4. Ross xnumx
    Ross xnumx 25 August 2020 11: 19 New
    +8
    At the same time, he did not explain what kind of submarine the parties want to receive, at what stage are the work and other details of the joint project.

    Most of these projects are at this stage.
    China really wants to get access to Russian developments and keep its own secret.
    1. Kurare
      Kurare 25 August 2020 11: 22 New
      +4
      Quote: ROSS 42
      China really wants to get access to Russian developments and keep its own secret.

      It will be so. China has little experience (in comparison with Russia) in the creation of submarines (naval and nuclear submarines) and you can get it through trial and error, or by paying money and in "cooperation" with Russia.
      1. Arthur 85
        Arthur 85 25 August 2020 12: 28 New
        0
        Or it will be like this: we will build boats together - we will have one, China - ten.
        1. Kurare
          Kurare 25 August 2020 14: 50 New
          0
          Quote: Arthur 85
          Or it will be like this: we will build boats together - we will have one, China - ten.

          If all boats for China are built at our shipyards and without the participation of Chinese specialists ... hi
          Could be so!
          1. Arthur 85
            Arthur 85 25 August 2020 15: 00 New
            0
            Alas, alas. We have neither so many shipyards nor so many qualified specialists. And if there were, China would not have gone to it. One to one - within the project, and eight more - albeit a little unfinished and unlicensed - at their shipyards. I would do so in their place.
            1. Kurare
              Kurare 25 August 2020 15: 41 New
              0
              Quote: Arthur 85
              Alas, alas. We have neither so many shipyards nor so many qualified specialists. And if there were, China would not have gone to it.

              But you can dream! laughing
              All jokes aside, this is exactly how it should be with China now. Common projects only if at their completion Russia does not give its know-how, i.e. does not raise another competitor in the market.
  5. rudolff
    rudolff 25 August 2020 11: 23 New
    +3
    A logical result. Our project of the ship and VNEU is of Chinese design. They wrote in powerlessness to create their own sane installation.
    1. Cyril G ...
      Cyril G ... 25 August 2020 11: 42 New
      +3
      Quote: rudolff
      VNEU Chinese design.

      Can you tell me where you saw this from the Chinese?
      1. rudolff
        rudolff 25 August 2020 15: 07 New
        +3
        I wrote so much about it that I am too lazy to repeat myself. You could google it yourself. Submarines with VNEU based on the Stirling engine are already being serially built in China. Next, copy-paste.
        On April 26, 2015, the main Chinese official newspaper People's Daily published a parade article "Best Workers", part of which was devoted to the success of Chinese developers of an air-independent power plant (VNEU) based on the Stirling engine. The article indicates that the Chinese managed to achieve a sharp (117%) increase in the power of the installation in comparison with the Swedish prototype, which served as a model for copying. This expanded the capabilities of the Chinese industry to create new types of non-nuclear submarines.
        The VNEU design was carried out by the Shanghai Marine Diesel Research Institute of the Chinese state shipbuilding corporation China Shipbuilding Industry Corporation (CSIC). A separate division for "special engines" was formed at NII-711 about 711 years ago, although active work in this area, judging by the article, was carried out earlier. The starting point in the design was the 10 kW Stirling 4-275 engine manufactured by the Swedish company United Stirling AB. After mastering the serial production of a copy of this engine, it was used to equip the Chinese submarines of the 75B project.
        As you know, the main disadvantage of Stirling engines is their low power density. The power of the copied Swedish installation did not quite suit the Chinese. It is noted that the boat of project 039B, after discharging the batteries due to movement at a speed of 20 knots for several hours, would have to move under the Stirling engine at a speed of no more than two knots for several days to fully charge the batteries.
        The article argues that the new generation of propulsion systems based on Stirling engines, created at NII-711, has a capacity of 160 to 217 kW. If the "submarine of a new type" (by which, apparently, the boat of project 039C is meant) is, like the boat of project 039B, equipped with four Stirling engines, this will provide it with a power of 640-868 kW. According to the authors of the article, it follows from this that the new Chinese submarine will be able to charge batteries underwater using Stirling engines at the same speed as a conventional Kilo-class submarine (the project has not been specified) recharges with its diesel - generators in the RDP mode.
        Thus, the Chinese submarine will receive unique capabilities compared to other modern non-nuclear submarines equipped with VNEU, since they will still need to periodically recharge their batteries using the RPD device, the author notes.
        Note that such an unusually frank description of the successes of Chinese engineers takes place against the backdrop of intensified efforts by the Chinese to promote their non-nuclear submarines abroad. In particular, in April it became known that the Pakistani Prime Minister had approved a deal for the purchase of 8 Chinese submarines, which could cost $ 4-5 billion. If the deal is completed, it will be the largest contract in the history of Chinese arms exports.
  6. RUnnm
    RUnnm 25 August 2020 11: 24 New
    +4
    The main thing is that it would not work out so that we simply transfer our technologies and developments to them, after which the joint project will be closed and they will start independent work.
  7. Angelo Provolone
    Angelo Provolone 25 August 2020 11: 27 New
    -1
    Not all! not all sold overseas yet! not order
  8. ximkim
    ximkim 25 August 2020 11: 29 New
    +1
    Tu Tu. To create something together, you need to have something together, but we don't have this.
    1. Cyril G ...
      Cyril G ... 25 August 2020 11: 43 New
      +1
      Quote: ximkim
      .And we do not have this.


      First of all, they do not have this. VNEU options may be different.
      1. ximkim
        ximkim 25 August 2020 12: 29 New
        0
        Quote: Cyril G ...
        Quote: ximkim
        .And we do not have this.


        First of all, they do not have this. VNEU options may be different.

        It's about the boat, not about VNEU. The interests and views of the PRC will not change from joint development with the Russian Federation.
  9. silberwolf88
    silberwolf88 25 August 2020 11: 31 New
    -2
    the concept of "joint" of course is somewhat far-fetched ... our technologies and developments and the financial burden is shared with a partner ... well, in this vein, the product and the joint ... but in fact, why not YES ... all the more to us diversification of production is needed (not only due to a diverse product line, but also on the sides involved ... the economy is also important) and from this point of view, China is quite a partner (well, not to invite disco dancers ... there is a step forward and two steps back)
  10. askort154
    askort154 25 August 2020 11: 33 New
    +2
    There have already been similar projects. Joint production of a heavy helicopter, then a passenger plane, then everything calmed down. After all, there are no long-term allied agreements between Russia and China. Even the SCO and BRICS communities do not take root. Somehow scary sincerely trust, or flirt
    with a dragon in the next room. no
    1. Quadro
      Quadro 25 August 2020 15: 10 New
      -1
      Quote: askort154
      There have already been similar projects. Joint production of a heavy helicopter, then a passenger plane, then everything calmed down. After all, there are no long-term allied agreements between Russia and China. Even the SCO and BRICS communities do not take root. Somehow scary sincerely trust, or flirt
      with a dragon in the next room. no

      Isn't it dangerous to flirt with a chicken from overseas?
  11. 123456789
    123456789 25 August 2020 11: 34 New
    0
    Quote: Dead Day
    anaerobic does not work, have you decided to attract the Chinese? no one else ...

    Quote: ROSS 42
    At the same time, he did not explain what kind of submarine the parties want to receive, at what stage are the work and other details of the joint project.

    Most of these projects are at this stage.
    China really wants to get access to Russian developments and keep its own secret.

    Stirling they already copied
  12. Gunther
    Gunther 25 August 2020 11: 41 New
    0
    Yes, only 2019 Russian defense companies were included in the rating of Yankel Defense News for 2 - JSC Concern VKO Almaz-Antey, which slipped from 15th to 17th place, and JSC Tactical Missile Weapons Corporation (35th a place).
    The top ten includes two Chinese state companies - Aviation Industry Corporation of china (6th place with an indicator of $ 25 million) and China North Industries Group Corporation Limited (075th place with an indicator of $ 8 million). ©
    So these "partners" are enthusiastically pushing Russian companies out of the market.
  13. newcomer
    newcomer 25 August 2020 11: 41 New
    0
    But what about the P750B submarine with VNEU?
    1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
      Andrei from Chelyabinsk 25 August 2020 12: 33 New
      +2
      Quote: newbie
      But what about the P750B submarine with VNEU?

      There is no VNEU. There is a project for the VNEU installation, which still needs to be developed.
      1. newcomer
        newcomer 25 August 2020 12: 36 New
        0
        It is assumed that the work on both the P750 and the VNZU will be completed simultaneously, given that the installation is promised by the end of 23, then the paperwork with the boat should end before that time.
        1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
          Andrei from Chelyabinsk 25 August 2020 12: 52 New
          0
          Quote: newbie
          It is supposed to synchronously finish the work on both P750 and VNZU, given that the installation is promised by the end of 23g

          Garik, they promise this installation almost as much as we live in the world. Rubin has been engaged in it by EMNIP since the last century, and it is not simply not there, but not from the word "in general", there the work has reached a dead end. Others are now working on this topic, but what the result will be is unknown. And all these plans "up to 23 g" - this is so, with a pitchfork on the water.
          1. rudolff
            rudolff 25 August 2020 15: 23 New
            +1
            Andrey, this is a different setting. Rubin creates his VNEU on the basis of ECH with TE and successfully screwed up all the work. And for P750 VNEU on the basis of a closed-cycle turbine. It is not Rubin who deals with it, but Malachite. This is a more compact unit for small and ultra-small submarines with a displacement of up to 1000 tons. Although, after the Rubin fiasco, they are trying to improve the performance characteristics for use on boats up to 1,5 kilotons.
            1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
              Andrei from Chelyabinsk 26 August 2020 06: 58 New
              0
              Quote: rudolff
              And for P750 VNEU on the basis of a closed-cycle turbine. It is not Rubin who deals with it, but Malachite.

              That's how it is, but these works, as I understand it, are very far from completion.
  14. Pavel57
    Pavel57 25 August 2020 12: 00 New
    0
    The Indians will not buy from China, but through Russia it is possible.
  15. donavi49
    donavi49 25 August 2020 12: 06 New
    +3
    Well, 636 boats finally died on export sad ... 0 contracts that year. There are not even serious intentions.

    China, on the other hand, is selling its 039 / S26T.

    Thailand bought 2 + 1.
    On August 21, 2020, the Budget and Finance Committee of the House of Representatives of the National Assembly of Thailand, by five votes in favor and four against, approved a budget allocation of 22,5 billion baht (about $ 714 million) to the Thai Navy in FY2021 for the acquisition of two Chinese submarines of the S26T project.



    Pakistan ordered S20 - a simpler version, but on the same 039 base.
  16. Vladimir Mashkov
    Vladimir Mashkov 25 August 2020 14: 40 New
    -2
    All cover up for nothing traitors and fools, giving secrets to the Chinese. But I don’t think that those who do this correspond to such a "high" rating. I think the matter is much more complicated and mutually beneficial.
  17. Ryaruav
    Ryaruav 25 August 2020 17: 39 New
    0
    Well, here are the successful managers
  18. pl675
    pl675 25 August 2020 20: 38 New
    0
    Quote: Mavrikiy
    Russia and China can jointly create a new generation nuclear submarine
    fool recourse request It is sad.


    or they may not.
    which is more real.
  19. Al_lexx
    Al_lexx 25 August 2020 20: 51 New
    0
    "-We have such devices, but we will not tell you about them!
    - Divers, that's good! "
    smile