Military Review

How Tukhachevsky destroyed his armies on the Vistula

83
How Tukhachevsky destroyed his armies on the Vistula

Polish infantry during the Battle of Warsaw. August 1920


While the Polish army by the time of the decisive battle on the Vistula had grown stronger and larger in number, Tukhachevsky's troops were weakened. They suffered heavy losses, were tired of incessant battles, the rear fell behind by 200-400 km, which disrupted the supply of ammunition and food. The divisions received no reinforcements. The balance of forces changed dramatically in favor of the enemy. In addition, the troops of the Southwestern Front were unable to turn to the northwest in time.

And in the south, a threat arose from the Russian army of Wrangel, which diverted forces and reserves from the Polish front. Due to the threat, the Western and South-Western fronts no longer received new formations from Wrangel's army. In June-July they went to the Crimean front. The White Guards pulled back over 20 rifle and cavalry divisions. And often powerful, selective, like Blucher's 51st Infantry Division. Their appearance on the Polish front could radically change the situation near Warsaw and Lvov.

The decision to continue the attack on Warsaw


On August 5, 1920, a plenum of the Central Committee of the Communist Party was held, which discussed the situation at the fronts. The decision was approved to transfer the 12th, 1st Cavalry and 14th armies of the Southwestern Front (SWF) under the command of Tukhachevsky. It was necessary in a decisive battle to break the enemy's resistance and achieve peace. To do this, it was necessary to transfer the 1st Cavalry Army to the Ivangorod sector and strengthen the southern flank of the Western Front (ZF) with the 12th Army of the Southwestern Front. On August 6, on the basis of the decision of the plenum of the Central Committee, Commander-in-Chief Kamenev issued a directive to the command of the South-Western Front to prepare for the transfer, together with the 12th and 1st Cavalry Armies, to the ZF and 14th Army. Budenny's army was withdrawn to the reserve, on the Lviv direction it was supposed to be replaced by rifle divisions. On the same day, the commander-in-chief ordered the command of the South-Western Front to replace the 1st Cavalry with infantry units and withdraw it to the reserve for rest and preparation for a new operation. But in not a single document did Kamenev order to end the Lvov operation. By August 10, Budyonny's cavalry was withdrawn to the reserve, and in the morning of August 13, on the orders of the front command, it again resumed the offensive against Lvov.

On August 11 and 13, Commander-in-Chief Kamenev ordered to withdraw Budyonny's army from the battle and send it to Zamoć. However, firstly, this decision was clearly late. Egorov's armies were tied up in a battle in the Lvov direction, bled out of blood and tired of long and difficult battles. Secondly, due to technical errors (inability to decipher the order) and sabotage by the command of the 1st Cavalry Army, who was in no hurry to carry out the order of the high command, Budyonny's cavalry left the battle for Lvov only on August 19, when everything was already decided on the Warsaw direction.

Meanwhile, the ZF command was preparing for a decisive battle for Warsaw. Although the right decision would be to take a pause, gain a foothold in the occupied lines, tighten up the rear, wait for replenishments and the arrival of the SWF (including the Cavalry Army). At the same time, Tukhachevsky made a number of miscalculations, making mistakes about the location of the main forces of the enemy. With better leadership, the ZF could have avoided a catastrophic defeat.

In general, the armies of the ZF (4th, 15th, 3rd, 16th armies and the Mozyr group) numbered just over 100 thousand fighters, that is, they were already inferior to the enemy in number. On the Warsaw and Novogeorgievsk (Modlin) directions, the Poles had about 70 thousand bayonets and sabers, and four Soviet armies - about 95 thousand people. On the Ivangorod (Demblinsky) direction, where the Polish command was preparing the main attack, the enemy had 38 thousand men, and the Mozyr group consisted of only about 6 thousand fighters. And Sollogub's 16th Army on the southern flank of the front's strike force was too weak to repel a possible flank attack of the enemy. At the same time, the troops of the ZF were already exhausted by previous battles, in some divisions there were only 500 fighters each, the regiments in number turned into companies. The infantry in the units was only enough to cover the guns and machine guns. There was not enough ammunition.

On August 10, 1920, the ZF command issued an order to attack Warsaw. Tukhachevsky believed that the main enemy forces were retreating northwest of the Bug to Warsaw. In fact, the Poles were retreating southwest to the Vepsz River. Therefore, it was decided to seize the Polish capital with an outflanking blow from the north. 4th, 15th, 3rd Armies and 3rd Cavalry Corps were to advance around Warsaw from the north. On August 10, Kamenev warned Tukhachevsky that the enemy had main forces south of the Bug, and not north. And the main forces of the front strike against relatively empty space. However, the ZF commander did not agree with this assessment of the situation. Kamenev gave Tukhachevsky freedom of action. Obviously, the point was that Tukhachevsky was Trotsky's protégé and the commander-in-chief did not want to spoil relations with the all-powerful chairman of the Revolutionary Military Council of the Republic. In addition, the Soviet high command was still in the illusion that everything was fine on the Polish front and victory was near.


Battle of Warsaw


On August 11, 1920, Soviet troops reached the Ciechanow - Pultusk - Sedlec - Lukow - Kock line. The ZF headquarters intercepted a Polish message about the preparation of a counterattack from the Ivangorod area. On the night of August 13, Tukhachevsky reported this to Kamenev. He asked to speed up the transfer of the ZF to the 1st Cavalry and the 12th armies. At the same time, the ZF command did not take any measures to parry an enemy strike. Apparently, he was sure that the Poles would not be able to do anything serious. That is, the ZF command knew about this three days before the Polish counteroffensive, but did nothing! As noted above, on August 11 and 13, the commander-in-chief gave orders to the SWF command to transfer the 12th and 1st Cavalry armies to the ZF. The 12th army was aimed at Lublin, and the army of Budyonny in the Zamosc region - Tomashov. But these directives were hopelessly late. They had to be handed over and executed at the beginning of August or even at the end of July. Thus, the mistakes of the high command and the command of the Western Front predetermined the heavy defeat of the Red Army on the Vistula.

At this time, fierce battles were going on in the Warsaw direction. The closer the Red Army approached Warsaw, the more stubbornly the Poles fought. The Polish army, using the water lines, held back the Soviet troops. At the same time, the previously defeated units were put in order, replenished, so that they would soon launch a counteroffensive. On August 13, the 21st and 27th rifle divisions of the 3rd and 16th armies took a well-fortified enemy point - the city of Radzimin, 23 km from the Polish capital. In connection with the enemy's threat to Warsaw, the commander of the Polish Northern Front, General Haller, ordered to accelerate the offensive of the 5th Army north of the capital and the strike group south of it. Having transferred two fresh divisions from the reserve, the Polish forces launched strong counterattacks on 14 August with the aim of returning Radzimin. Soviet troops first repulsed enemy attacks and even slowly moved forward in places. In these battles, Soviet troops experienced a shortage of ammunition, especially shells. The divisional commander of the 27th division Putna even suggested that the army commander himself retreat back to the Bug until they were defeated. It is clear that this sensible proposal was rejected. The 3rd army of Lazarevich, with the support of the left flank of the 15th army of Cork, took two forts of the Modlin fortress on the same day.


Polish counteroffensive


On August 14, the 5th Polish Army of General Sikorski struck at the junction of the 4th and 15th Soviet armies. On August 15, the Polish cavalry broke into the city of Ciechanów, where the headquarters of the 4th Soviet army was. The army headquarters fled, having lost contact with the front command, which led to the loss of control not only of the army, but also of the entire northern flank of the ZF. Tukhachevsky ordered the troops of the 4th and 15th armies to break the enemy forces wedged in between them, but the disorderly and disorganized counterattacks did not lead to success. At the same time, apparently not yet realizing the threat to Tukhachevsky's troops, Trotsky ordered the ZF to cut the Danzig corridor so that the Poles could not receive Entente military supplies.

In the center, Soviet troops fought heavy battles on August 14-15 in the Radzimin area. The Poles eventually recaptured the city. The 8th Infantry Division of the 16th Army broke through to the Vistula at Gura Kalwaria. But this success was already at its limit. On August 15, the ZF command ordered the 16th Army to move the front south, but this order was already late. On August 16, Polish troops launched a counteroffensive on the broad Ciechanow-Lublin front. From the border of the river Vepsh attacked 50 thousand. the Pilsudski strike group. The Poles easily swept away the front of the weak Mozyr group and moved northeast, encompassing the Warsaw grouping of the Red Army. Having received news of the enemy's offensive on the front of the Mozyr group, its headquarters and the command of the 16th Army initially decided that it was only a private counterattack. The Poles got a head start and quickly went to Brest-Litovsk and Belsk in order to cut off and press the main forces of the ZF to the German border.

Realizing that this was a real threat, the Soviet command tried to organize a defense on the Lipovets and Western Bug rivers. But this regrouping took time and good organization, and there were no reserves to contain the enemy. In addition, the rear and railways were in ruins, and troops could not be transported quickly. At the same time, the Poles intercepted and read the radio messages of the Soviet command, which made it easier for the Polish army to break through. On the morning of August 19, Polish troops drove out the weak parts of the Mozyr group from Brest-Litovsk. The attempt to regroup the troops of the 16th Soviet Army failed, as the enemy reached any defensive lines before the Soviet troops. On August 20, the Poles reached the line Brest-Litovsk - the Narev and Western Bug rivers, covering the main forces of Tukhachevsky from the south.

Under these conditions, the command of the ZF already on August 17 ordered the regrouping of troops to the east, in fact it was already a retreat. However, due to the chaos in the rear and on the railways, it was not possible to withdraw all forces from the blow. The withdrawal of troops was accompanied by a constant deterioration of the situation. So, on August 22, the troops of the 15th Army were in Lomza, but enemy attacks forced them to deviate northeast to Grajevo and Avgustov. The divisions of the 4th Army on the northern flank, which advanced farthest to the west, had the worst. On the 22nd, the 4th Army was still in the Mlawa area and was forced to break through the front of the 18th Infantry Division of the 5th Polish Army. On the same day, Polish troops occupied Ostrolenka and on August 23 - Bialystok. On August 25, Polish divisions finally blocked the 4th Army and parts of the 15th Army from going east. Troops of the 4th Army and 2 divisions of the 5th Army (4th and 33rd) crossed into Germany, where they were interned. Units of the 3rd Cavalry Corps on August 26 still tried to break through to the east, but, having exhausted their ammunition, they also crossed the German border.


Polish infantry on the offensive

Defeat


It was a disaster. The Western Front lost almost all of its main forces: 15-25 thousand killed, missing and wounded, about 60 thousand prisoners and 30-35 thousand internees. When leaving the encirclement, Tukhachevsky's army suffered more damage than during the offensive to the west. Polish losses amounted to about 36 thousand people killed, wounded and missing. The Red Army lost all its positions in Poland and by August 25 withdrew to the Lipsk - Svisloch - east of Brest line. The strategic initiative passed to the Polish army.

The Soviet-Polish negotiations that began on August 17 in Minsk were unsuccessful. Moscow insisted on the border along the "Curzon Line", with some concessions in favor of Poland in the areas of Bialystok and Holm. Also, Warsaw was proposed to reduce the army to 50 thousand people, reduce military production, transfer surplus weapons to the Red Army and create a workers' militia. Poland was prohibited from receiving military aid from abroad. After the brilliant victory at Warsaw and the failure of the Red Army in the Lvov region, Poland did not want such a peace. The Polish command was preparing for a new offensive, planning to push the borders far to the east.

The Entente countries agreed that the Polish eastern border should run mainly along the "Curzon Line". Also, the West informed Warsaw that Vilna should go to Lithuania. However, Poland was in no hurry in the face of a successful offensive in peace. After the collapse of plans to create "Red Warsaw", Moscow decided to concentrate efforts on defeating Wrangel.


Commander of the 5th Polish Army, General Władysław Sikorski (1881-1943)


Jozef Pilsudski and Edward Rydz-Smigly at the head of the strike group. August 1920 of the year
Author:
Photos used:
https://ru.wikipedia.org/
Articles from this series:
Smoot. 1920 year

Battle of Rostov
The disaster of white Odessa
How Slashchev Crimea defended
Dono-Manych battle
The death of the Northern Army Miller
Why Western agent Kolchak is turned into a hero and martyr of Russia
The defeat of the army of Denikin in the battle of Tikhorets
How did the Ice Siberian campaign end
The fall of the White Kuban
Agony of White Novorossiysk
The death of the Kuban army
Denikin's resignation
Far Eastern Republic and the Japanese threat
Polish "liberation" campaign in Kiev
Baku “Blitzkrieg” of the Red Army
The battle for Belarus. May operation of the Red Army
War of the Russian Army Wrangel
The first victories of the Wrangel army
The defeat of the 13th Soviet Army in Northern Tavria
Our Kiev!
The battle for Rivne. How Budyonnovtsy smashed the Polish defense
Minsk is ours! The defeat of the Polish army in Belarus
Battle for Lviv. The failure of the Red Army in Galicia
The death of the cavalry group Rednecks
The fierce battle for the Kakhovsky bridgehead
The defeat of the landing group Ulagaya
"Miracle on the Vistula"
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  1. Ragnar Lodbrok
    Ragnar Lodbrok 20 August 2020 05: 15 New
    13
    the right decision would be to take a pause, gain a foothold on the occupied lines, tighten up the rear, wait for reinforcements and the arrival of the SWF units (including the Cavalry Army).

    Unfortunately, as Karl Hampe very rightly said in his time, “history does not know the word“ if ”.” What happened has happened.
    1. Ross xnumx
      Ross xnumx 20 August 2020 05: 39 New
      15
      It is this disclosure of the "white spots" of our history that is capable of assessing the activities of people who disposed of thousands of lives without regard to the consequences.
      Honored to the author (+).
      Better "bitter truth" than "sweet lies" and "victory hymns."
      1. Ka-52
        Ka-52 20 August 2020 09: 06 New
        +6
        Better "bitter truth" than "sweet lies" and "victory hymns."

        there were no "hymns". Tukhachevsky's Polish campaign was simply not mentioned anywhere or was mentioned in passing.
        1. Reptiloid
          Reptiloid 20 August 2020 23: 05 New
          +1
          Quote: Ka-52
          ..... there were no "hymns". Tukhachevsky's Polish campaign was simply not mentioned anywhere or was mentioned in passing.
          This is exactly what my older relatives and some strangers to me, whom I asked, said. And neither at school nor at the institute there was no such thing. And in the 60s, Tukhachevsky Street appeared in the newly built district of Leningrad. Block houses, mostly. Probably, they designed and gave names at the corn plant ...
          1. rich
            rich 22 August 2020 01: 27 New
            +6
            Troops of the 4th Army and 2 divisions of the 5th Army (4th and 33rd) crossed into Germany, where they were interned. Units of the 3rd Cavalry Corps were still trying to break through to the east on August 26, but, having exhausted their ammunition, they also crossed the German border.


            The 3rd Cavalry Corps of the Red Army is a real hero of that Polish company. Acting at the forefront of the blow of the 4th Army, this corps broke through to the rear of the Polish troops and reached the Vistula, contributing to the successful actions of the entire army during the general offensive of the red units. After the counter-offensive of the Polish troops and the defeat of Tukhachevsky, the corps was deeply cut off, but 4 (four times !!!) tore the encirclement, and only the lack of ammunition forced it to turn back and again fight its way to the German border in order to intern.
            It is noteworthy that even the commander-in-chief of the ARSUR P. Wrangel appealed to the Berlin white émigrés in order to prevent exs and provocations against the interned soldiers of the 3rd KK of the Red Army. The fact is that in the corps, unlike other parts of the Red Army (with the exception of probably only the 14th division of Kotovsky), hostage-taking, executions of prisoners, pogroms and robberies of the local population were strictly prohibited. The now undeservedly forgotten legendary "iron division commander", the former tsarist staff captain, holder of two Orders of the Red Banner, the Order of St. George 3rd degree, the Order of St. Vladimir 2nd degree Gaik Dmitrievich Guy (real name Hayk Bzhishkyants) commanded the corps
            Yes, yes, the same - the hero of Samara, Simbirsk, Orenburg, about whom in the thirties in the USSR they sang songs
            Volga! Remember darling
            Like the shelves of the hero Guy,
            Gangs of white overtaking
            They were swept away like dust!
            Dear Ilyich, the capture of your hometown - Simbirsk - is the answer to your wound, and Samara will be for the second". The signature under the telegram - Guy, was hushed up after 1937. ...

            a photo corps commander G.D. Guy

            a photo. stamp from the series "heroes of the civil war"
    2. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 20 August 2020 08: 57 New
      +6
      Quote: Ragnar lodbrok
      Unfortunately, as Karl Hampe very rightly said in his time, “history does not know the word“ if ”.” What happened has happened.

      So in the alternative, the same thing would happen. The Poles would have had time to build their defenses and reorganize their units. And, taking into account the help from the same France, they would have done it much better than the Reds. As a result of the postponement of the offensive, the Reds would first have to break through the defenses of the restored Polish units, and then, after identifying the directions of attacks, the Poles would have struck the flank in the same way.
  2. Olgovich
    Olgovich 20 August 2020 06: 41 New
    0
    How Tukhachevsky destroyed his armies on the Vistula

    It was not Tukhachevsky who killed the troops, but the mindless political leadership, who recently yelled about eternal peace, but, for the sake of their crazy ideas about the world revolution, threw hundreds of thousands of Russian soldiers against the obviously strongest enemy (and had already fought for SIX years)!

    With an idle, completely destroyed economy of the country, with an army exhausted by a long-term war, to climb against a united Europe and the United States was a wild adventure of unimaginable people, for whom the lives of hundreds of thousands of soldiers cost NOTHING.

    And it is good that they did not manage to reach Germany, otherwise the losses would have been even greater.

    The result of stupidity is unthinkable losses and the lost opportunity to have a reasonable border on the Curzon line. To regain it, I had to spend many more years and efforts before and in WWII and still receive accusations in the "partition" of Poland ...

    Well, all these "great" red "commanders of the Tukhachevskie, putny, peel, Lazarevich turned out, according to the VK of the USSR Armed Forces .... traitors, spies and traitors, and were trampled and destroyed very soon.
    1. Ross xnumx
      Ross xnumx 20 August 2020 09: 31 New
      +7
      Quote: Olgovich
      а mindless political leadershipwho recently screamed about eternal peace, but for the sake of his crazy ideas about the world revolution

      Are you talking about Trotsky? Or they decided to prove to us that it was this "mindless leadership" that raised the country, which the emperor had renounced, from its typhoid beds, pulled it out of illiteracy and poverty, gave a powerful impetus to industrialization, electrification (GOELRO plan) and allowed to create certain spiritual bonds and values ​​that allowed to beat Adolf Aloisovich, under whom Europe fell as a paid girl with reduced social responsibility?
      Addressing today the personalities known to the majority of living Russians (for comparison), we can very easily name the specific names of those responsible for the flaws that we stumble about every day for decades. BUT!!! Something I don't see here is a massive attack on the country's leadership and the well-known party leadership.
      The time will come, and our descendants (if they stay) will write these names with a small letter. Only the current generation of Russians will take this process exactly as much as today the bulk of the population of Russia is concerned about the fate of "putna, pilsudski, korka, lazarevich and other deceased." Memory is such a selective thing that you can only wonder:
      1. Ka-52
        Ka-52 20 August 2020 09: 55 New
        0
        pulled out of illiteracy and poverty, gave a powerful impetus to industrialization, electrification (GOELRO plan) and allowed to create certain spiritual bonds and values,

        many countries have traveled this path WITHOUT turning millions of their citizens into food for worms on the fields of civil war and camp ashes after it. You somehow easily forget WHAT was behind industrialization, collectivization and other -isations.
        1. Ross xnumx
          Ross xnumx 20 August 2020 10: 38 New
          +6
          Quote: Ka-52
          You somehow easily forget WHAT was behind industrialization, collectivization and other -isations.

          You easily forgot something, what Hitler planned to do with Russia, and what would have happened to the citizens of the USSR if these "-zations" were not there.
          It is a pity that you did not remember those epidemics and wars that turned the citizens of European countries into worms. It is not our fault that everyone who wants to chop off a piece of the "fat pie" has entered our civil war.
          Really... belay Why are we so suddenly rushed to liberate Europe? Everything was fine there. Let them boil in their own juice ...
          There were many difficult moments in the history of our state, but this period was not the best ... There was also the construction of Petersburg, and the development of the Urals, and ... Do you suppose that the "runaways" appeared in the Russian Empire from a good life?
          Let's stop unnecessary squabbling. You will not force me to recognize the Soviet period of history as genocide of the Russian people.
          1. Dr. Frankenstucker
            Dr. Frankenstucker 21 August 2020 11: 01 New
            -1
            ... You easily forgot something that Hitler planned to do with Russia,

            Previously, it is more appropriate to 'remember' what the Reds were going to do with Germany when they cut a corridor through Poland in 1920. By that time, the NSDAP had already declared its 25 points.
        2. Kwas
          Kwas 20 August 2020 21: 12 New
          +4
          If you mean the Western powers, then, firstly, there were similar phenomena, even worse, but as a rule extended over time. For example, in France - a hundred-year war, Huguenot wars, revolution + intervention + civil war + Napoleonic wars. In England fencing + civil war + industrial revolution + terrible sacrifices in the colonies.
          1. Ka-52
            Ka-52 21 August 2020 04: 17 New
            -1
            For example, in France - a hundred-year war, Huguenot wars, revolution + intervention + civil war + Napoleonic wars.

            another polyolite remember. fool we are talking about a specific government that has built a technical revolution on the blood and bones of millions. How good it is to tear your throat from a warm sofa when you are not among them.
            1. Alexey RA
              Alexey RA 21 August 2020 09: 26 New
              +4
              Quote: Ka-52
              we are talking about a specific government that has built a technical revolution on the blood and bones of millions

              The answer was given in 1931.
              We are 50-100 years behind advanced countries.
              We must make good this distance in ten years.
              Either we do it, or they crush us.
              © IVS
              Alas, in the 20s and 30s the USSR had to do what other countries had been doing a century or two before. Moreover, this had to be done in a short time. We haven't had a chance to stretch the same fencing about fifty years.
              The empire was fatally late with industrialization. Worse, the Empire's industry never became capitalist, turning into a state-capitalist structure, in which economic activity was largely supported by government orders. The state will order rails for the Trans-Siberian - economic growth from coal miners and metallurgists. The construction is over - that's it, there is a decline. The shipbuilding industry, as Kazi aptly put it, was a chimera that existed on government money. It was extremely difficult to develop at the expense of the domestic market (2/3 of the population actually lives by subsistence farming), and the foreign market has long been divided, and moreover, its players are entering the domestic market, squeezing low prices due to large production volumes. The situation with the auto industry is indicative: while in other countries cars are produced in the thousands, in Russia the only car plant with a total pre-war production of 500 cars barely survives. And only the state loan for the car plant and the state order allows the same Ryabushinsky to start building the plant. Why? And because not a single normal capitalist will build a plant that produces something that cannot be sold. Moreover, taking into account the experience of Lessner, who was forced to stop the production of "market" cars and switch to "state-ordered" torpedoes.
              But who knows ... if the Empire had not been delayed with the transition to industrial rails - maybe 1917 would not have happened.
              Quote: Ka-52
              How good it is to tear your throat from a warm sofa when you are not among them.

              The ambush is that without emergency industrialization, the USSR would have remained a great Poland. More precisely, the Reichskommissariat Moskowien, etc.
              1. Ka-52
                Ka-52 21 August 2020 09: 59 New
                +2
                the problem was not that. To protect the fatherland from possible aggression of more economically / technically developed countries, it was not required to destroy 10% of their population. These losses were the result of neither the mobilization of forces to overcome the technical lag, nor the seizure of foreign resources for the same purposes. They are victims of political struggle, bloodthirstiness that reaches the level of sadism.
              2. Olgovich
                Olgovich 21 August 2020 10: 31 New
                -6
                Quote: Alexey RA
                We are 50-100 years behind advanced countries.
                We must make good this distance in ten years.
                Either we do it, or they crush us.
                © IVS
                Alas, but in the 20s and 30s the USSR had to do what other countries were doing a century or two before.

                You are not telling the truth6 in the 1920s it was necessary to deal exclusively with the RESTORATION of what was DESTROYED by the thief and her GW.

                And EVERYTHING was destroyed: industry, agriculture, science and education.

                Those. in the 10 years that other countries have gone FORWARD, our country has only CATCHED up. 1913 And, catching up, capitalist methods.

                The pace of development without the VOR brought the country by 1940 to the same (or higher) indicators. As they were in history.

                BUT, without WWII, without demography destroyed in the 1930s, unheard of in the history of hunger deaths, savage repression and slavery of peasants and tearing the forces of the people
                1. Alexey RA
                  Alexey RA 24 August 2020 18: 51 New
                  -1
                  Quote: Olgovich
                  You are not telling the truth6 in the 1920s it was necessary to deal exclusively with the RESTORATION of what was DESTROYED by the thief and her GW.

                  This is the mid-20s. And I'm talking about the end of the 20s, when they began to build new factories and finish building what the Empire was not able to complete - for example, the Vickers plant ("Barricades"), which was started by construction a few years before the war.
                  Quote: Olgovich
                  Those. in the 10 years that other countries have gone FORWARD, our country has only CATCHED up. 1913 And, catching up, capitalist methods.

                  The result of this process was announced in 1927 - if suddenly, by some miracle, it is possible to fully finance all the Wishlist of Group A (and annually for several years), then maybe we can reach the pre-war level. Because the methods of management based on profit as the main parameter have finished off the machine park in 5 years - only 10-20% of the minimum requirements were allocated for the renewal of fixed assets.
                  Quote: Olgovich
                  The pace of development without the VOR brought the country by 1940 to the same (or higher) indicators. As they were in history.

                  In one hundred and seventy-six years, Lower Mississippi has shortened by two hundred and forty-two miles, that is, an average of about a mile and one-third a year. Hence, any calmly reasoning person, if only he is not blind and not completely, will be able to see that in the ancient Silurian era - and she was exactly a million years old in November next year - the Lower Mississippi was over a million three hundred thousand miles in length and hung over The Gulf of Mexico is like a fishing rod. Based on the same data, everyone will easily understand that in seven hundred and forty-two years, the Lower Mississippi will be only one and three-quarters of a mile long, and the streets of Cairo and New Orleans will merge, and these two cities will live and live, ruled by one mayor and choosing the general city council. Still, there is something exciting about science. You put in some trifling amount of facts, and you take a colossal dividend in the form of inferences. And even with interest.
                  © Samuel Langhorn Clemens.
                  1. Olgovich
                    Olgovich 25 August 2020 07: 33 New
                    0
                    Quote: Alexey RA
                    This is the mid-20s. And I'm talking about the end of the 20s, when they began to build new factories and finish building what the Empire was not able to complete - for example, the Vickers plant ("Barricades"), which was started by construction a few years before the war.

                    Russia's GDP was "caught up" only by the end of the 1920s.

                    Ten years of development - the cat is a genus of tail.

                    Russia was unable to complete the construction due to the war of the VOR. And those factories that she built began to work 10 years later.

                    The same is with school, science, production.

                    The VOR is a giant step back in the country's development.
                    Quote: Alexey RA
                    The result of this process was announced in 1927 - if, by some miracle, it is possible to fully finance all the Wishlist of Group A (and every year for several years), then maybe we can reach the pre-war level.

                    The result of this process is the restoration of the economy destroyed by the VOR and the almost catch-up consumption of food, clothing at the level of 1913, and a restored demography.

                    The result of the "turning point" -disaster with consumption, labor and demography.

                    And what did the thief promise there, huh?
          2. Reptiloid
            Reptiloid 21 August 2020 10: 30 New
            0
            ........ victims in the colonies. .......

            This is yes. Millions of Indians. Black slaves for both americas. Not to mention the horror of slavery, most of them died on the way.
            And the local peoples themselves --- the bloody victims of the Aztecs, civil strife in India, the Chinese "War of the Five Barbarians" "at the end of the XNUMXst millennium BC. e.
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                    2. blackice
                      blackice 25 August 2020 10: 40 New
                      0
                      .
                      National income declined
                      twice. The number of bankruptcies, closings and bankruptcies exceeded all
                      possible perceptions: more than 110 thousand companies went bankrupt and
                      4,6-5 thousand banks (but the banks collapsed later, see below),
                      900 thousand farms. Unemployment is assuming monstrous proportions, the number of unemployed has increased, according to various sources, from 12 to 15 or
                      even more than a million people (the exact number is unknown), amounting to
                      at least a quarter of the active population21. The suffering of people
                      were very large (they are well described in scientific and fiction literature), for example, about one million Americans
                      lived in temporary shacks, the so-called hooverville. At the same
                      time, as noted above, support for wage rates
                      wages increased unemployment and discouraged the flow of workers
                      forces from one industry to another

                      This is what Grinin writes about VD at the very beginning.
                      But you are definitely a liar.
                    3. Olgovich
                      Olgovich 25 August 2020 10: 49 New
                      0
                      Quote: blackice
                      .
                      National income declined
                      twice. The number of bankruptcies, closings and bankruptcies exceeded all
                      possible perceptions: more than 110 thousand companies went bankrupt and
                      4,6-5 thousand banks (but the banks collapsed later, see below),
                      900 thousand farms. Unemployment is assuming monstrous proportions, the number of unemployed has increased, according to various sources, from 12 to 15 or
                      even more than a million people (the exact number is unknown), amounting to
                      at least a quarter of the active population21. The suffering of people
                      were very large (they are well described in scientific and fiction literature), for example, about one million Americans
                      lived in temporary shacks, the so-called hooverville. At the same
                      time, as noted above, support for wage rates
                      wages increased unemployment and discouraged the flow of workers
                      forces from one industry to another

                      This is what Grinin writes about VD at the very beginning.
                      But you are definitely a liar.

                      WHERE is there 7-12 million DIED of hunger, about which you LIEED, that they are mentioned by Grinin?

                      Aren't you ashamed to lie SO?
              2. blackice
                blackice 25 August 2020 10: 01 New
                0
                If it didn’t come AGAIN: see the Report of the Central Statistical Board of 1955: in the 1930s, the USA ate SEVERAL TIMES more meat, milk, eggs, sugar, etc. than in the USSR,

                You don't know the joke about meat and cabbage, you are not a liar?
                So, clever girl, on the territory of the future USSR, starting from the beginning of the 20th century, the first world war was fought, then two revolutions, then a civil one. What do you think, could there have been a well-fed life there with a complete collapse of the economy?
                Well, with whom has the United States fought since 1905 on its territory?
                1. Olgovich
                  Olgovich 25 August 2020 10: 27 New
                  +1
                  Quote: blackice
                  You don't know the joke about meat and cabbage, you are not a liar?
                  So, clever girl, on the territory of the future USSR, starting from the beginning of the 20th century, the first world war was fought, then two revolutions, then a civil one. What do you think, could there have been a well-fed life there with a complete collapse of the economy?

                  She WAS there, an ignoramus-BEFORE the THIEF: your consumption level in 1913 could barely catch up, after all the victims and struggles, only after ... FORTY YEARS !!

                  Under the NEP, in 1928, they almost caught up with 1913, but then everything collapsed for tens of years.

                  Russia is the ONLY WWI country that did not experience hunger, in the same Germany died of hunger 800 000 people

                  Hack the facts on your nose, ignorant
                2. blackice
                  blackice 26 August 2020 02: 39 New
                  -3
                  Ndaaaa.
                  How it burns !!!
                  An ardent admirer of the United States is immediately visible.
                  Everything was fine in the USA, but everything is bad everywhere.
                  All the same, take the trouble to read FULLY those books and articles that I brought.
                  And then you have mastered work of more than 100 pages in half an hour.
                  A liar about you, even to put it mildly. But you, as a hypocrite, give a fuck
                3. Olgovich
                  Olgovich 26 August 2020 06: 53 New
                  0
                  Quote: blackice
                  An ardent admirer of the United States is immediately visible.
                  Everything was fine in the USA, but everything is bad everywhere.

                  belay fool lol
                  Quote: blackice
                  All the same, take the trouble to read FULLY those books and articles that I brought.

                  I have read and, moreover, brought you the FACT of your shameless LIE: in Grinin's words you replaced the words "unemployed 71-12 million" with ... "DEAD 7-12 million".
                  Shame ....

                  And who are you after that?
                4. blackice
                  blackice 2 September 2020 04: 53 New
                  -1
                  I replaced?
                  Good girl, I just copied the text of the excerpt from the book. What did you read there?
                  In a few minutes the whole book ??????
                  Well yes!!! You are not a liar!
                  You are the world + door + ball in English.
                5. Olgovich
                  Olgovich 2 September 2020 08: 25 New
                  +1
                  Quote: blackice
                  I replaced?
                  Good girl, I just copied the text of the excerpt from the book

                  What ... book, liar?
                  Quote: blackice
                  In a few minutes the whole book ??????

                  WHY read the entire book? fool

                  Read those SMALL sections that are devoted to CONSEQUENCES

                  Got it, no?
  3. blackice
    blackice 25 August 2020 09: 10 New
    -3
    AGAIN: Submit Official DOCUMENTS on this starving "mortality" in the USA

    Once again - google to help.
    There are many things there, very official. And there are a lot of historical articles on this topic.
  • blackice
    blackice 24 August 2020 09: 28 New
    -1
    The consequences of the crisis (Great Depression) were truly enormous and catastrophic:

    1. During the period 1929-1933, according to various sources, from 7 to 12 million people died in America from hunger, hypothermia and disease.
    2. About 3 million people were left homeless.
    3. Small and medium-sized businesses have almost completely ceased to exist.
    4. Almost all investors left the market.
    5. The gross national product has halved.
    6. The number of radical right and left parties has grown in the country.
  • Reptiloid
    Reptiloid 20 August 2020 23: 11 New
    +3
    .... accusations of the partition of Poland. .....
    ugh on them! You can remember the events of 1814. laughing Namely, the Vienna Congress. Where it was confirmed that Poland will not be a single state, but will be divided between three states. And all the anger at Russia.
  • odometer
    odometer 21 August 2020 07: 57 New
    0
    It is a pity that "... did not manage to reach Germany ...", now they would drink Bavarian wink
    1. Alexander Greene
      Alexander Greene 21 August 2020 09: 46 New
      -1
      Quote: curvimeter
      It is a pity that "... did not manage to reach Germany ...", now they would drink Bavarian

      Most likely, the Germans would have done little on the graves of our grandfathers after drinking Bavarian beer.
  • Alexander Greene
    Alexander Greene 21 August 2020 09: 48 New
    +2
    Quote: Olgovich
    Share ...

    I read your comments and just wonder: How much bile is in you? *
    1. Olgovich
      Olgovich 21 August 2020 10: 34 New
      -6
      Quote: Alexander Green
      I read your comments and just wonder: How much bile is in you? *

      on the TOPIC-have something to say? There is nothing?

      So what's your empty CHAIN?
      1. Alexander Greene
        Alexander Greene 22 August 2020 00: 16 New
        -1
        Quote: Olgovich
        So what's your empty chatterbox?

        I’m waiting for your bile to run out and you stop clinging and repeating the same thing
        1. Reptiloid
          Reptiloid 22 August 2020 07: 49 New
          +2
          Quote: Alexander Green
          Quote: Olgovich
          So what's your empty chatterbox?

          I’m waiting for your bile to run out and you stop clinging and repeating the same thing

          There is such a topic, Alexander! It would seem that Olgovich is always against the Bolsheviks. negative This is unacceptable to me. But ---- Olgovich also speaks against modern Romania and Romanization in Moldova. And this is positive. So that recourse everything is very request ambiguous ......
          1. Alexander Greene
            Alexander Greene 22 August 2020 11: 49 New
            -1
            Quote: Reptiloid
            And this is positive.

            There is a saying "And Baba Yaga is against"
            1. Reptiloid
              Reptiloid 22 August 2020 12: 53 New
              +3
              Quote: Alexander Green
              Quote: Reptiloid
              And this is positive.
              There is a saying "And Baba Yaga is against"
              bully And nevertheless, it turns out that he is against everything that happened in the USSR in the 90s. And he does not speak about the benefits of pseudo-democratic changes. recourse
  • apro
    apro 20 August 2020 07: 11 New
    17
    And in the south, a threat arose from the Russian army of Wrangel, which diverted forces and reserves from the Polish front. Due to the threat, the Western and South-Western fronts no longer received new formations from Wrangel's army. In June-July they went to the Crimean front. The White Guards pulled back over 20 rifle and cavalry divisions. And often powerful, selective, like Blucher's 51st Infantry Division. Their appearance on the Polish front could radically change the situation near Warsaw and Lvov.
    The Poles should say thank you to the White Guards for the services rendered ... the Russian whites did everything to dismember the country ...
  • Kwas
    Kwas 20 August 2020 07: 12 New
    +4
    , candidates for Napoleons, it must be so underestimated the enemy! It is clear that Sun Tzu has not been read. Okay, they believed the bad intelligence, they wanted to take Warsaw quickly. But she, damn it, is on the other bank of the Vistula. And what did they think to force the Vistula on? Or maybe they did not know this geographic fact?
  • Ren
    Ren 20 August 2020 09: 10 New
    +2
    Under Warsaw troops under the command Tukhachevsky fought with troops under the command Sikorsky.
    On the one hand, the chairman of the Revolutionary Military Council of the Republic was Trotsky on the other hand, the head of the Polish state was Pilsudski. what
    And after that, there may still be questions why the Red Army men were defeated and taken prisoner? belay
  • Avior
    Avior 20 August 2020 09: 17 New
    +2
    Commander of the 5th Polish Army, General Władysław Sikorski (1881-1943)

    In a couple of decades, he will become the head of the Polish government in exile and in 1941 will sign with the USSR, on behalf of Poland, the Maisky-Sikorski Treaty, in which the USSR will renounce the Treaty of Friendship and the Border with Germany, that is, on the new pre-war border.
    In 1943, Churchill drew the new borders of the USSR, Poland and Germany in Tehran with the help of three matches and it was finally approved at the Potsdam Conference in 1945, among other official results of World War II.
    Sikorsky himself died in 1943 in a plane crash.
  • Yaik Cossack
    Yaik Cossack 20 August 2020 10: 02 New
    +8
    The author shows quite objectively the obvious mistakes of Tukhachevsky, his adventurism and lack of real military talent.
    But at the same time, the blatant disobedience of Budyonny and Stalin, who refused to carry out the order of 13 August on the transfer of the 1st Cavalry Army, is somehow mentioned in passing. Tales that they could not "decipher" the order are later excuses.
    If the order was executed, the right flank of the advancing Poles would itself have come under a powerful blow and everything could have turned completely differently, and the southern flank of the Western Front would not have collapsed. Budyonny and Stalin were to be shot for failure to comply with the order. But they got away with it.
    1. Alexander Greene
      Alexander Greene 21 August 2020 09: 53 New
      0
      Quote: Yaitsky Cossack
      fulfill the order of 13 August on the transfer of the 1st Cavalry Army.

      Can you imagine the difficulties: to get out of continuous battles, to break away from the enemy in the sector of one front, and immediately go on the offensive in the sector of the other front?
      1. Yaik Cossack
        Yaik Cossack 21 August 2020 13: 41 New
        +2
        1. That is, since there are difficulties, then orders can not be followed, as you insist? The logic is strange and has nothing to do with the army. Budyonny and Stalin did not carry out the order and did not even try. Only on August 20, when the Western Front completely collapsed, they began to redeploy to Zamost.

        2. If you seriously own real material, that is, at least you have read the military-historical works of Yegorov, Melikov, Tukhachevsky, Pilsudsky, Klyuev on this issue, then I am ready to discuss with you. The possibility of withdrawing the Cavalry Army to the flank of the advancing Poles was proved by facts. Even Pilsudski recognized the reality and the extreme danger of a Cavalry Army strike in the Lublin direction, where the Poles HAD NOTHING.

        But if you are simply presenting abstract truths, then they are empty. Yes, war has difficulties.
        1. Alexander Greene
          Alexander Greene 22 August 2020 00: 21 New
          0
          Quote: Yaitsky Cossack
          But if you are simply presenting abstract truths, then they are empty. Yes, war has difficulties.

          So you have no idea what it means to get out of the battle, break away from the enemy pursuing you, gather in marching order and march to another front.
          1. Yaik Cossack
            Yaik Cossack 22 August 2020 01: 49 New
            -1
            Do you continue to grimace? On August 20, the Cavalry Army did all this, "easily broke away" and left. When Budyonny and Stalin realized what they had done.
            Judging by your aplomb, you are probably a great practitioner of military affairs, since you are so wonderful about all this? Probably have experience in managing associations? Share your experience in combat. I didn’t go out as a military leader, I remained a colonel))
            1. Yaik Cossack
              Yaik Cossack 22 August 2020 02: 03 New
              -1
              It is even surprising that such a significant military expert like you knows nothing about the events near Lvov. I am even beginning to suspect that you have not read Egorov's article.
              So, how did Budyonny "get out of the fight" after August 13? Oh ... no way. He continued to attack Lvov quickly and even ordered the capture of it on August 19. The Poles retreated to the city. But the Cavalry Army failed to take Lvov. And only then the Cavalry Army quickly "pulled out of the battle" and, completely not pursued by exhausted Polish units, moved "to carry out the directive."
              1. Alexander Greene
                Alexander Greene 22 August 2020 11: 47 New
                0
                Quote: Yaitsky Cossack
                I am even beginning to suspect that you have not read Egorov's article.

                You better read Shaposhnikov "On the Vistula"
                1. Yaik Cossack
                  Yaik Cossack 22 August 2020 12: 22 New
                  +1
                  Are these all your reasons? pitiful like that, field marshal))) I thought you had the facts.
                  Perhaps I will upset you. It is necessary to read Shaposhnikov, Tukhachevsky, Egorov, Kakurin, Klyuev, Triandafilov, Melikov.
                  1. Yaik Cossack
                    Yaik Cossack 22 August 2020 12: 29 New
                    0
                    Now on the facts. Here is a brief chronology of events (by the way, we must not forget that in addition to the Cavalry, the 14th Army, the Yakir group (two rifle divisions, a horse division) also attacked Lviv.

                    August 8 - the decision of the commander-in-chief to transfer the Cavalry to the Western Front.

                    August 8 - on a direct line, the RVS of the Cavalry (Budyonny, Voroshilov) discussed with the RVS of the South-Western Front (Egorov, Stalin) about the undesirability of the Cavalry's transition to the Western Front.

                    Directives of the Commander-in-Chief of August 11, No. 4738 and 4752 "... abandon the immediate capture of Lvov and send the main forces of the front to Lublin-Zamosc ..."

                    Triandafilov: "These directives were received and decoded at the headquarters of the Southwestern Front on August 11th."

                    Egorov (commandyugozap): “... The enemy retreated beyond the river. Bug ... Actions in the Lvov direction were resumed at the initiative of the army itself ... "

                    Triandafilov: "The front actually refused to carry out the order of the commander-in-chief ..."

                    Melikov: "... the matter was the reluctance of the front command to fulfill this directive"

                    August 12 - an order for the Cavalry to regroup the army in order to start an offensive against Lvov: “... destroy the enemy on the right bank of the river with a crushing blow. Zap. Bug, cross the river and on the shoulders of the fleeing ... capture the city of Lvov. "

                    On the morning of August 13, the Cavalry launched a new offensive in the Lviv direction and began to cross the river. Zap. Boog.

                    The directive of the commander-in-chief August 14 - The Cavalry was transferred to the Western Front.

                    Directive of August 16 “... the Commander of the First Cavalry to withdraw its cavalry units to Toporov, occupying the area from Toporov and to the south with parts of the 45th and 47th SD ... of the entire Cavalry as part of the 4th, 6th, 11th, 14th -th CD by four crossings to go to the Vladimir-Volynsk region. "

                    Klyuev (NSh of the Cavalry): "... having discussed the situation, the RVS Cavalry decided from the beginning to end the Lvov operation and only then start moving towards Vladimir-Volynsk."
                    AMAZING, ISN'T it TRUE?

                    The chief of staff of the Zapfront in a telegram on August 17 reported that "... the question of the urgency of the regrouping was of exceptional importance due to the circumstances of the moment."

                    The order of the commander of the Western Front on August 19 - the immediate withdrawal of the Cavalry and regrouping to the north.

                    How the "separation" actually passed, about the terrible difficulty of which my interlocutor spoke here.
                    Klyuev: “... the divisions had to leave one regiment in their sectors before nightfall, after which the regiments had to retreat to their divisions ... The Cavalry began the indicated regrouping at 12 o'clock. days on August 20. By evening, units of Comrade Yakir's group had replaced the Cavalry along the Kamenka-Yarychuv-Khanachuv line with parts of the 45th and 47th divisions. Kotovsky's cavalry brigade was pulled up to Olshanitsa by a ledge behind the left flank, the 8th cavalry division advanced to Cape Borka ... "

                    Obviously, fantasies about "... to get out of continuous battles, to break away from the enemy on a sector of one front ..." have nothing to do with reality, since in practice the Cavalry "left" and "broke away" in a day.
                    1. Alexander Greene
                      Alexander Greene 22 August 2020 17: 50 New
                      +1
                      Quote: Yaitsky Cossack
                      in practice, the Cavalry "came out" and "broke away" in a day.

                      How simple it is with you. But in fact, after the Cavalry's withdrawal from the battle, a gap was formed, which the 45th division, which had suffered great losses before that, could not close. The Poles crushed it, their cavalry rushed after the Cavalry Army. went to her rear, after which she was surrounded, from which she later escaped with heavy losses.

                      Tukhachevsky dreamed of Napoleon's laurels, did not underestimate the enemy, mistook the retreat of the Poles for their defeat, did not conduct reconnaissance, stretched the rear for hundreds of kilometers, in general made many mistakes, which Shaposhnikov very competently laid out in his scientific work "On the Vistula".

                      And the Central Committee of the RCP (b) gave a good political assessment of what had happened. Read the materials of the Central Committee and the works of V.I. Lenin, and there is no need to shift the blame from Tukhachevsky to the command of the South-West Front and the First Horse.
                      1. Yaik Cossack
                        Yaik Cossack 22 August 2020 18: 45 New
                        -1
                        Listen, you are not ashamed to juggle so shamelessly. Well, it's clear that they screwed up, but why pile up further?
                        And there is nothing demagogically to blame me for defending Tukhachevsky, I myself called him a mediocre adventurer. Nobody surrounded the Cavalry near Lvov, you are simply lying. The story of her counterstrike near Zamosc, which was completely late, as the Poles pulled up their forces, is a completely different topic.
                        Finally, to press on Shaposhnikov, who, for the sake of Stalin, kept silent about a lot, but to ignore the confessions of the Chief of Staff of the Cavalry Klyuev and the commanding officers of Yegorov, as well as the special military history works of Triandafilov and Melikov, is completely incorrect.
                        Therefore, I stop communicating with you in connection with your dishonesty and illiteracy. Military history is not for you. Read poems
                      2. Alexander Greene
                        Alexander Greene 22 August 2020 21: 14 New
                        +1
                        Quote: Yaitsky Cossack
                        Nobody surrounded the Cavalry near Lvov, you are simply lying.

                        Read in more detail. I did not write. specifically near Lvov. I thought that you would understand where, knowing this fact. I didn't think that you, as a child, take everything literally.

                        For your reference:
                        "From the memoirs of S.M. Budennogо
                        ... It turns out that the 45th and 47th rifle divisions, which replaced the Cavalry near Lvov, were shot down, and the enemy cavalry rushed after us into the opening gap. By evening, the enemy had already occupied the Bug crossing in the Dobrotvor area, north of Kamenka, and was spreading towards Kholoyuv.
                        … Although the enemy "sat on our tail", In an effort to draw the army into battle, we decided to move north. Division 11 was ordered to push back the enemy cavalry across the Bug and secure the left flank of the army.
                        ... The cavalry had to operate in difficult weather and terrain conditions, with a limited amount of ammunition and food, and most importantly - in fact, in the operational environment of superior enemy forces. But the task of capturing Krasnostav was not canceled, and we decided on August 30 to continue the offensive, hoping for more help from the 12th Army.
                        ... the situation has developed in such a way that we will have to go back to join the front troops... Now the army is locked in a ring. We will make our way to Grubeshov along the high road.
                        …. But the situation remained threatening. Our divisions found themselves sandwiched between two enemy groupings in a corridor only 12-15 kilometers wide in the area of ​​Svidniki - Khoryshov-Polsky - Chesniki - Nevirkov - Khoryshov-Russian. Moreover, the Polish troops pressed not only from the south and north, but also from the west, from the side of Zamosc. And in the east, capturing the crossings on the Khuchva River, the enemy cut us off from the troops of the Western Front".
                        And where did I lie?

                        Quote: Yaitsky Cossack
                        Therefore, I stop communicating with you in connection with your dishonesty and illiteracy. Military history is not for you. Read poems

                        Who would talk about liars, decency and ignorance ...
    2. Reptiloid
      Reptiloid 21 August 2020 18: 19 New
      0
      Good afternoon, Alexander! hi there is a poem by Eduard Bagritsky. Here is an excerpt from it
      ... (Only the raven is sent
      Guard in the fields ...
      Beyond the fields of the Vistula,
      Wind and Pole;
      Beyond the fields mentic
      Flies into the log!)

      Military Commissar Dementyev,
      Saber bald!

      Bite right through
      Will succumb to the knee
      Lather the head
      Horse foam ...
      Steppe instead of sheets:
      Pulled --- once!

      ... with solid sabers
      Shave us ...

      I will swing, chopped,
      Stretch out in the grass
      I'll fall down with a forelock
      To the fair head ...
      We did not wait for the coffin,
      Finished the hike ...

      ... On breech shoes
      Chamomile blooms ...
      The proverbial raven
      Will fly at close range
      Croak "nevermore" he
      According to Edgar Poe ...
      "Turn around, stand up ...
      Blow the horn ... "
      (Old romance,
      Black feather!)
      ☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆
      This is an excerpt from the poem "" Conversation with the Komsomol member N. Dementyev "". In this collection there is also a short poem by Nikolai Dementyev, about Space, prophetic.
      1. Alexander Greene
        Alexander Greene 22 August 2020 00: 25 New
        0
        Dmitry, thank you. good verse.
  • Yaik Cossack
    Yaik Cossack 20 August 2020 10: 16 New
    0
    Well, for the communist doctrine, the Polish catastrophe was also an ideological defeat. It turned out, despite not all the talk about the omnipotence of class doctrine and class struggle, that nationalism turned out to be stronger than Bolshevism, that the Polish proletariat supported the idea of ​​a national state. Lenin, Trotsky and Tukhachevsky, both before and after the campaign, were running around with the idea of ​​fundamentally new "revolutionary wars" that, they say, no one among the enemies would resist class communist solidarity. The reality has refuted these illusions.
    1. Yaik Cossack
      Yaik Cossack 20 August 2020 13: 28 New
      +1
      Comrades "minusists", I understand that you simply have nothing to argue, this is your emotional protest not against me, but against the historical truth that you do not like. It delivers)))

      Lenin's idea of ​​exporting Bolshevism collapsed in Poland. The plans of the leader are clearly visible in the materials of the plenum of the Central Committee of the RCP (b) on the "Polish question" on July 16, 1920. Read 10 Lenin's theses - "to help the proletariat and working masses of Poland and Lithuania to free themselves from the landowners, for this - all forces and especially strain to strengthen and accelerate the offensive."
      It was Trotsky who took a more cautious position. Chairman of the Supreme Council of National Economy Rykov also said that "attempts to Sovietize Europe by means of such units as Budyonnovsk will only compromise us before the European proletariat."

      So it was the leader who pushed and urged Tukhachevsky.
      However, the created Polish Soviet government of Dzerzhinsky-Markhlevsky was boycotted by all social strata of the Polish people and was unable to form a single Polish red military unit! Well, how did you "help the proletariat"? Did the leader understand the situation in Poland sensibly when he pressed for Sovietization?

      Your disadvantages are a great demonstration of the inadequacy of leftist ideas about real history))))
      1. Ryaruav
        Ryaruav 20 August 2020 19: 12 New
        0
        Lenin is not so hot as a military man, but the economy is good, but everyone was sick with stupid internationalism, and this is understandable that the victory of the poor for the first time in history was brain-twisting no worse than cocaine and Stalin supported this nonsense at first, but in general it is difficult for ensigns and non-commissioned officers to be commanders while a highly mobile citizen was walking This was due to the preponderance in people, and even then not always, but it was worth facing a national army with the experience of the First World War, which had not bad weapons and developed communications and supply services and a combination of cavalry and infantry as it turned out for modern Russia it is still bad then lost their own and after World War II got 5 column
      2. Reptiloid
        Reptiloid 21 August 2020 10: 57 New
        -2
        In 1917, despite all obstacles, a state was created, unparalleled until now. Russia did not know such a development as from 1917 to 1989 never before in its history! Fascism was defeated !!!!!!!!!! A new system of states was created --- SOCIALIST! And it was a threat to world capitalism. Therefore, the world capital fought against it.
        1. Yaik Cossack
          Yaik Cossack 21 August 2020 13: 47 New
          +1
          Did you fight for your beloved socialism on the barricades against world capital in 1991? How long have you personally lived under socialism? Do you reject such vile products of spiritless capitalism as personal computers and mobile phones?
          1. Reptiloid
            Reptiloid 21 August 2020 14: 39 New
            -2
            Quote: Yaitsky Cossack
            ...... Do you reject such vile products of spiritless capitalism as personal computers and mobile phones?
            laughing these are products of the human mind that I do not receive as a gift, but acquire wassat what?
            In 1991? I didn't even know. Many parents tried not to tell their children, but to bypass ...
    2. Kwas
      Kwas 20 August 2020 21: 22 New
      +6
      Quote: Yaitsky Cossack
      It turned out, despite not all the talk about the omnipotence of class teaching and class struggle, that nationalism turned out to be stronger than Bolshevism,

      This case is not an indicator. Poles, for the most part, are patriots, have just restored their state from 125 years of oblivion, of course they will fight with enthusiasm. And everyone knows how the Poles hate Russia.
      But in neighboring Hungary and Germany blazed well.
      1. Yaik Cossack
        Yaik Cossack 20 August 2020 22: 20 New
        +1
        And the leader therefore did not know about this Polish property, since he insisted on Sovietization? As a result, he did not agree to the border along the Curzon line and then, after the defeat, gave Poland a noticeable chunk of Ukraine and Belarus. Isn't it a high price for illiteracy and adventurism?
        What is "not an indicator"? That is, fooled and pretended that nothing had happened?
        1. Yaik Cossack
          Yaik Cossack 20 August 2020 22: 49 New
          0
          By the way, what does “blaze well” mean in Germany and Hungary? Are you so bashfully calling the rapid and effective defeat of the Bolshevik revolutions there? Yes, they were liquidated there without much difficulty and without a civil war. So there, as well as in Poland, plans and efforts to carry out a proletarian revolution proved to be adventurous. In Germany they tried it 3 times - in 1918, 1921 and 1923. It ended in a shameful embarrassment. After such adventures, the German Communist Party collapsed (see Brandler and Company).
        2. Reptiloid
          Reptiloid 21 August 2020 11: 01 New
          -2
          ...... and the leader .....
          Here we have to deal with this. Since it turns out that until 34 there was no one-man leadership, but there was an internal party struggle, which, probably, was also not spoken about under socialism?
          1. Yaik Cossack
            Yaik Cossack 21 August 2020 13: 53 New
            +1
            Well, have you already figured it out? Have you read the materials of the plenum? Or not yet?
            You do not want to deal with anything and do not want to, you just want to chat about a topic on which you have no reasons.

            So that's it. A significant part of the Central Committee in July 1920 was against the expansion of the Polish campaign, since the country was severely exhausted. Lenin, on the contrary, flared up with enthusiasm and pushed through his theses, which he had written with his own hand. His authority and power were such that no one challenged him. Lenin was the undisputed leader during this period, he even carried out decisions when he remained in the minority (Brest Peace, NEP, etc.).

            So your abstract reasoning has nothing to do with this case.
            1. Reptiloid
              Reptiloid 21 August 2020 14: 33 New
              0
              .....materials of the plenum .....
              read it. And can you tell me why the Bolsheviks had such an attitude towards the Poles? After all, they fought not against the autocracy, as they wrote, but against Russia. I was surprised by such a presentation of material in the History of the 19th century from 8 volumes edited by Tarle, published in 1937. After all, this was after the aforementioned events and it is not clear to me. It is also incomprehensible to me, if Stalin moved away from the idea of ​​a world revolution, then did the general studies, both in Moscow and abroad, of artists, architects continue, in order to create a single space? Or in the 30s, foreign artists-architects came to the USSR to build new socialist cities. It seems to me that the world revolution was meant by them?
              1. Reptiloid
                Reptiloid 21 August 2020 17: 57 New
                +1
                Also in the 60s in the Moscow district of Leningrad, Kosciuska street appeared, under Khrushchev ..
    3. Shore Cannes
      Shore Cannes 22 August 2020 14: 27 New
      +1
      I partially agree. It was after the Soviet-Polish war that the owners of the FRS decided that they had found an antidote against communism - Nazism. Since it was very expensive to industrialize Rzhech Pospolita, they decided to rely on industrialized Germany and its Nazis.
  • iouris
    iouris 20 August 2020 10: 28 New
    -2
    And Trotsky and Babel?
  • itis
    itis 20 August 2020 17: 05 New
    0
    and why the author of the article is not printed in the "header"?
  • Ryaruav
    Ryaruav 20 August 2020 18: 55 New
    +1
    only one question, but what battles did he win as commander in chief of Kamenev, and in general which of these from the future country put forward everywhere? where the red marshals were punished, but in 1941 only the rokossovsky unit (who was sitting 37-39) struck a counter blow and then near Smolensk, it was a real marshal
  • Sergey Oreshin
    Sergey Oreshin 21 August 2020 12: 01 New
    +1
    Another weak article, or rather, not even an article, but an abstract concocted on the basis of Wikipedia
  • Yaik Cossack
    Yaik Cossack 21 August 2020 15: 00 New
    0
    Quote: Reptiloid

    In 1991? I didn't even know. Many parents tried not to tell their children, but to bypass ...

    Not surprisingly, I actually assumed so. The most uncompromising adherents of socialism are just among those who did not live under it. So to speak, theorists "believers in the Soviet paradise".
    But for those who, like me, lived for a long time under this real socialism, it is quite understandable why it, alas, decayed, rotted, sadly, and naturally was destroyed by the very same Soviet party elite.
    All this was theoretically described by the Marxist Milovan Djilas - how under socialism (hypertrophied state-monopoly capitalism) an exploitative class of the nomenklatura naturally arises, which, within the framework of a one-party dictatorship, then freely and naturally seizes state property, buries socialism.
    1. Reptiloid
      Reptiloid 22 August 2020 06: 08 New
      -1
      Quote: Yaitsky Cossack
      ...... I actually assumed so. The most uncompromising adherents of socialism are just among those who did not live under it. So to speak, theorists "believers in the Soviet paradise".
      But for those who, like me, lived for a long time under this real socialism, it is quite understandable why it, alas, decayed, rotted, sadly, and naturally was destroyed by the very same Soviet party elite.
      All this was theoretically described by the Marxist Milovan Jilas - as under socialism ...........
      Soviet paradise - 6 years of my life, it is clear that from this actual time it is necessary to subtract the most unintelligent childhood. And, like, very little remains. And where? On an expedition to the Far East, it would seem? I listened to pioneer and children's socialist songs in padio and on records. The records were of different colors and it made me happy .... I wanted to go to school, I wanted to be an Octobrist and a pioneer. I didn't ... I knew and saw if someone got sick --- a helicopter flies to the regional center, or maybe later to Khabarovsk by plane with an escort and at the expense of the state. .....
      There are words of a Czech politician that everything that was said before about socialism is a lie, but about capitalism is true.
      .....and we are now drinking a full spoon ...
      It is clear how capitalism came, you probably immediately got your candle factory? Or maybe those deposits that my parents mapped?
      What do you care about some small unwanted kids who didn't even go to school then?
      After all, this generation of mine ended up in families where parents were not paid a salary for six months, and then they became unemployed altogether.
      This is my generation from 10-12 years old freely bought cigarettes, beer, ginchiks in stalls.
      This generation of mine was buying glue in tubes
      This generation of mine turned out to be discharged into nowhere as a child, when drinking parents privatized apartments and sold them for pyanke.
      This generation of mine went to wash cars and work as loaders in the markets, back in school.
      Much more can be added. And after that, you want to say that it was worse under socialism? We didn’t slurp CAPITACLISM with a full spoon then ----- how did Milovan Djilas speak about this?
      1. Yaik Cossack
        Yaik Cossack 22 August 2020 10: 50 New
        +1
        I understand now. Sorry to raise the bar. I tried to talk to you about social processes, patterns and their analysis, but you do not understand scientific understanding and are not close. You are at the philistine level of emotional-subjective understanding and experience of your personal frustrations. Alas, the psychology of the masses is reflexive.
        1. Reptiloid
          Reptiloid 22 August 2020 11: 13 New
          -2
          ah
          .....excuse me.....
          ,
          Oh
          ...... social processes .....

          Oh
          ......frustration .....
          address all this to yourself, looking in the mirror. Because otherwise there would be no question of yours about what I did in 91m. Did you want to shame? Make him guilty for the affairs of a hunchback and drunk? And figs you laughing look in the mirror when talking about the problems of socialism. What were you doing in the 91st? ...
          ... And they kept silent about the candle factory.
          My childhood was prosperous, but for a long time I did not understand that it was thanks to relatives, and not as under socialism - opportunities for all children of the USSR.
  • Yaik Cossack
    Yaik Cossack 22 August 2020 12: 34 New
    +2
    Quote: Yaitsky Cossack
    The most uncompromising adherents of socialism are just among those who did not live under it.

    You illustrated this beautifully, thanks laughing
    1. Reptiloid
      Reptiloid 22 August 2020 12: 47 New
      -2
      Again there is no answer about 91m ???????
      1. Yaik Cossack
        Yaik Cossack 22 August 2020 13: 12 New
        +2
        An active supporter of the Emergency Committee. The rest does not concern you
        1. Reptiloid
          Reptiloid 22 August 2020 20: 53 New
          -2
          Quote: Yaitsky Cossack
          An active supporter of the Emergency Committee. The rest does not concern you
          And why not?
          Aha! This means that your generation and stratum have perverted the socialism that defeated fascism all over the world. And also say that I did not live under socialism. But your childhood, school was under socialism, and not under CAPITALISM, like mine
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  • xomaNN
    xomaNN 25 August 2020 16: 02 New
    +1
    An example of voluntarism and poor intelligence of the enemy soldier I respect Tukhachevsky as a versatile gifted person and a young energetic military leader. Stay alive in the repressions of 37, I think, unlike Budyonny, Voroshilov and others. army commanders of the civil war could fight more competently at the beginning of the war. Although, since he was always aimed at the attack, and not at the defense, maybe he also burned out the troops in attacks.
    Worse, in the Patriotic War, some of the front-line generals and Headquarters forgot these bitter lessons of the defeat of the Polish campaign. And also, without having reconnoitred the forces of the enemy, they tried to attack with the blood of the soldiers of the Red Army by the dates without proper preparation in 41-42.