Military Review

B-21 Raider: Bomber or More?

85

Development milestones



The state has a strategic bomber aviation can be attributed to one of the signs that characterize the global ambitions of the country. They are in the arsenals of the United States and Russia (USSR), China is among the laggards, but it is making great efforts to acquire these types of weapons. For the rest of the world, strategic bombers remain an unaffordable luxury.


Cold War relics: Tu-95 and B-52 bombers

The question of the need for the existence of strategic bombers has been repeatedly raised. On the one hand, ICBMs appeared, which ensured an incomparably faster delivery of nuclear charges, on the other hand, the intensive development of air defense (air defense) means in the form of anti-aircraft missile systems (SAM) became a deterrent.

All of the above, on the one hand, led to the abandonment of ultra-high-tech projects of strategic bombers such as the Soviet T-4 (product 100) of the Sukhoi Design Bureau or the American North American XB-70 Valkyrie, on the other hand, did not lead to the abandonment of strategic bombers in principle.


Unrealized projects of strategic bombers: Soviet T-4 Sukhoi Design Bureau and American North American XB-70 Valkyrie

The effectiveness of strategic bombers increased significantly after the appearance of strategic cruise missiles, which made it possible to attack from a long distance, without entering the enemy's air defense zone.

Nevertheless, the task of breaking through the air defense was not removed. In search of ways to solve it, various options were considered: high-altitude throw at supersonic speed, flight in the terrain enveloping mode, or a combination of these methods. This led to the appearance in the USSR and the USA at the same time of similar, but at the same time quite different strategic bombers of a new generation, Tu-160 and B-1B, respectively, with variable wing geometry.


Strategic bombers Tu-160 and B-1B

Nevertheless, in the face of opposition from modern air defense, the chances of survival for the Tu-160 and B-1B are most likely small, as a result of which in the war between the USSR and the United States, they most likely could only be used as platforms for launching cruise missiles. At the same time, the complexity and cost of their operation, as well as the cost of a flight hour, were significantly higher than that of the "ancient", albeit modernized Tu-95 and B-52.

In the future, the construction of new Soviet cars was slowed down by the collapse of the USSR, and the United States relied on the maximum introduction of stealth technologies to reduce the visibility, which resulted in the emergence of the most expensive stories aviation bomber B-2 Spirit from Northrop Grumman. The cost of one B-2 Spirit bomber is over $ 2,3 billion at current prices.


Bomber B-2 Spirit

We can say that the collapse of the USSR, coupled with the prohibitive cost, "buried" the project: instead of 132 units planned for purchase, only 21 aircraft were produced. Moreover, the complexity and cost of operating the B-2 was even higher than that of the B-1B. All this has led to the fact that the "younger" B-1B and B-2 will be "retired" earlier than the ancient B-52.

Nevertheless, it is obvious that the concept of an ultimatum stealth strategic bomber has justified itself in the eyes of the leadership of the US Air Force (Air Force), since the newest B-21 bomber under development is visually a continuation of the B-2 bomber concept.

B-21 Raider



The promising bomber B-21 Raider should become the "ideological successor" of the B-2 bomber. The new bomber is being developed as part of the LRS-B program, like the B-21, it was first mentioned in 2016 when the US Air Force signed a development contract with Northrop Grumman.

The planned volume of purchases of B-21 is about 80-100 vehicles, with the possibility of increasing the portfolio of orders to 145 vehicles. Ultimately, the volume of purchases will most likely be related to the final price of the combat vehicle and its actual capabilities.

Presumably, the B-21 should incorporate all the best from the B-2 and at the same time be cheaper in terms of purchase and operation costs. Reducing the cost is planned to be achieved by reducing the dimension of the new bomber and its carrying capacity, as well as partial unification with other aircraft of the American Air Force. In particular, two Pratt & Whitney F135 engines from the fifth generation F-35 fighter are supposed to be used as a power plant. Another possible alternative is the Pratt & Whitney PW9000 power plant, developed on the basis of the Pratt & Whitney PW1000G "civilian" engine, using the technologies of the aforementioned Pratt & Whitney F135.

B-21 Raider: Bomber or More?

Pratt & Whitney F135 engine of the F-35 fighter

Based on published images, analysts suggest that the B-21 bomber is optimized for medium to high altitude flights. It is believed that initially the B-2 project also had such a layout, but the Air Force's requirement to ensure flight at low altitudes required a more complex trailing edge configuration.


Estimated size and shape of B-21 versus B-2


B-21 Raider bomber projections

The assembly of the first prototype of the B-21 Raider bomber should be completed in 2021, and it should go on its maiden flight in 2022.


Insignia of the 420th US Air Force Flight Test Squadron, designated Joint Test Group B-21

If the information on optimizing the design of the B-21 bomber for flights at medium and high altitudes is true, then this confirms the conclusions drawn in the article "Where will the combat aviation go: will it press down on the ground or gain altitude?"

Penetrating Counter Air


A study by the non-partisan Congressional Budget Office and published by Defense News mentions a promising fighter designed for deep penetration into enemy territory - the Penetrating Counter Air (PCA), which is to replace both the F-22 Raptor and the F-15 Eagle. This machine is conceived as an ultimatum for gaining air superiority, capable of withstanding the latest developments in Russia and China, and directly over enemy territory. In this case, the tasks of hitting ground targets will be assigned to the F-35 and B-21 aircraft.


Penetrating Counter Air aircraft concept

Presumably, the PCA fighter should be larger than the F-22 Raptor and F-15 due to the need to carry a large supply of weapons and fuel in the internal compartments. Its estimated cost should be $ 300 million per plane.

The Penetrating Counter Air fighter project is somewhat similar to the promising combat aircraft discussed in the article "Concept of a combat aircraft in 2050 and weapons based on new physical principles".

The appearance of the Penetrating Counter Air fighter will most likely depend on the success of the Russian and Chinese air forces in their development. After all, if the internal economic situation in the Russian Federation and the increasing US sanctions pressure on China can restrain the development of the Air Force opposing the United States, then what is the point of purchasing aircraft at $ 300 million apiece? Their tasks may well be solved by the modernized F-22 and F-35 with new weapons.

In addition, it is possible that air cover for the B-21 Raider bomber is not so necessary.

Special features of the B-21


There are a number of assumptions related to the B-21 bomber project. Among them, one can single out information about the armament of this bomber with air-to-air missiles, which will allow it to withstand enemy fighters, laser weapons, which will provide self-defense of the bomber from air-to-air and surface-to-air missiles, as well as kinetic missile defense.

To ensure effective operation against ground and air targets, the B-21 bomber must be equipped with a radar station (radar) with an active phased antenna array (AFAR). It can be assumed that it will be developed on the basis of the existing AN / APG-77 and AN / APG-81 radars, installed on the F-22 and F-35 fighters, respectively. Both of these radars are developed by Northrop Grumman, the same one that develops the B-21 bomber.


Radar with AFAR AN / APG-77 and AN / APG-81, installed, respectively, on the F-22 and F-35 fighters

Considering that the dimensions of the B-21 bomber exceed the dimensions of the F-22 and F-35 fighters, a much larger number of transmit-receive modules (PPM) can be installed as part of a promising radar, which, in turn, will increase the power of the radar, and hence its ability to detect targets and jamming. In turn, the weight and size limitations of modern fighters will not allow them to be equipped with radars comparable in characteristics. This is only possible in larger aircraft, such as the aforementioned Penetrating Counter Air or the Russian MiG-41 / PAK DP.


Unofficial concepts MIG-41 / PAK DP

Also, the B-21 bomber can be equipped with optical-location stations (OLS), similar to the AN / AAQ-37 and AAQ-40, installed on the F-35 fighter. Their development was carried out by Northrop-Grumman in conjunction with Lockheed-Martin. The highest sensitivity of these systems made it possible to detect the launch of a ballistic missile from a distance of 1300 kilometers during tests, as well as detect shots from tank guns. Optoelectronic systems of the F-35 fighter make it possible to detect enemy aircraft with high efficiency, as well as air-to-air and surface-to-air missiles.


For its outstanding characteristics, the OLS of the F-35 fighter received the name "God's Eye"

In addition to the ability to conduct electronic warfare (EW) using radar, the size of the B-21 bomber allows it to accommodate additional, specialized EW equipment.

Air-to-air armament


“The new US Air Force strategic stealth bomber, the B-21 Raider, will have the ability to engage in air combat just like modern fighters. Major General Scott L. Pleus spoke about this in an article for Air Force Magazine. 2019 ".

As a means of destroying air targets, the B-21 bomber can receive improved versions of the AIM-120 AMRAAM missiles or the MBDA Meteor ramjet engine (ramjet) if this missile is adapted to the requirements of American legislation. But it is much more likely that the main air-to-air weapon of the B-21 bomber will be the Peregrine rocket developed by Raytheon, equipped with a multi-mode homing head (GOS). With range characteristics corresponding to the AIM-120 medium-range missile and maneuverability characteristics corresponding to the AIM-9X short-range missile, the Peregrine rocket should have half the weight and size characteristics of the AIM-120 missile, which will double the ammunition load of F-fighters. 22 and F-35. Accordingly, the B-21 bomber can carry a significant number of such missiles.


Peregrine rocket concept

Given the potential capabilities of the radar and OLS of the B-21 bomber to detect air targets at a great distance, its ammunition load can be supplemented with long-range AIM-260 JATM (Joint Advanced Tactical Missile) missiles, which should replace the AIM-120D missile. The AIM-260 missile should have a firing range of about 200 kilometers, while maintaining the dimensions of the AIM-120D missile.

Of no less, and perhaps more interest, are missiles intended for the carrier's self-defense by intercepting incoming air-to-air and surface-to-air missiles.

Kinetic active defense systems


Raytheon has signed a contract with the US Air Force to develop a small-sized MSDM (Miniature Self-Defense Munition) missile with a length of about one meter, designed to intercept enemy missiles using a direct hit (Hit-to-Kill). The development of the missile, essentially the MSDM interceptor missile, should be completed by the end of 2023.


Dimensions of the MSDM missile compared to the AIM-9X and AIM-120 missiles

Previously, Northrop Grumman patented a kinetic anti-missile defense system for stealth aircraft, which can be compared to something like an active protection complex (KAZ) for tanks. Presumably, this patent was related to a request from the US Air Force on a topic implemented as part of the creation of MSDM missiles.

The proposed anti-missile defense complex should include retractable launchers (PU) with small-sized anti-missiles, oriented in different directions, to ensure the circular defense of the aircraft. In the retracted position, the launchers do not increase the visibility of the carrier.


Image from Northrop Grumman's patent for a kinetic missile defense system for stealth aircraft

The launchers should house small-sized anti-missiles, maneuvering decoys, active emitters of electronic warfare (EW).

Preliminary target designation for interceptor missiles should be issued from the carrier's radar and OLS. After launching and capturing the target of the seeker, the anti-missile must operate in a completely autonomous mode. Presumably, anti-missile missiles should use a multi-range seeker, including an active radar homing head (ARLGSN), an infrared homing head (IR seeker) and a guidance system for the radiation of enemy radars (for example, for the radiation of ARLGSN air-to-air missiles of the enemy).

It is assumed that MSDM missiles will only have passive guidance to thermal radiation (IR seeker). It is excluded that it will be supplemented with the ability to target a source of radar radiation, then ARLGSN are too expensive to place them on such antimissiles.

It is not yet clear whether the MSDM missile will be integrated into the Northrop Grumman-patented "aviation KAZ" project as part of the B-21 bomber, or whether it will be a separate Raytheon project and MSDM missiles will be launched from the aircraft's standard weapons bays.

Weapons on new physical principles


The US Armed Forces in general and the Air Force in particular are actively seeking to equip military equipment with laser weapons.

Contrary to the opinion of skeptics, work in this direction is being carried out very actively, and the results can be obtained earlier than expected - the appearance of serial samples of laser weapons can be expected in the period from 2025 to 2030. Given the complexity of integrating laser weapons into an airplane or helicopter glider, it can be expected that container samples of laser weapons will appear first. Thus, fourth-generation aircraft such as F-15, F-16 and F-18 can receive laser self-defense weapons earlier than their fifth generation “counterparts” F-22 and F-35.


Containerized version of laser weapons deployed on an AH-64 Apache helicopter

On the other hand, it can be assumed that laser weapons, deeply integrated into the design of aircraft, will have significantly greater capabilities in comparison with container versions.

It is believed that laser weapons will become an integral part of the sixth generation fighters. The B-21 bomber should appear between the fifth and sixth generation, and the possibility of placing laser weapons will at least be taken into account when developing it.



In 2017, Lockheed Martin won a $ 23,6 million contract to develop a SHiELD (Self-Protection High Energy Laser Demonstrator) laser that can be installed on existing and future aircraft carriers. The SHiELD complex consists of three subsystems: a laser targeting system (Northrop Grumman), a power and cooling system (Boeing), and the laser itself (Lockheed Martin). The entire package is expected to be ready for testing by 2023.


US Air Force laser weapons development schedule as of 2013

Given the complexity and cost of the B-21 bomber program, it can be assumed that part of the potential for the use of air-to-air weapons, kinetic self-defense and the use of laser weapons will be realized immediately, some will be implemented in stages, in packages, in the process of modernization, while the possibility of such upgrades will be planned initially. The US naval forces are now doing the same, initially planning the deployment of laser weapons in promising ship projects, pending their readiness for mass production.

Ultimately, the presence of advanced reconnaissance means, low visibility, significant stocks of weapons in the internal compartments, as well as laser and kinetic defensive systems, will turn the B-21 bomber into a "flying fortress" of the XNUMXst century.

conclusions


What consequences will the appearance of such an advanced aircraft as the B-21 bomber have if it receives all the capabilities discussed in the article?


It all depends on the effectiveness of those offensive and defensive systems that will be installed on it. If the US Air Force senses that the B-21's defensive systems are capable of effectively protecting it from Russian and Chinese air-to-air and surface-to-air missiles, then an increase in the number of violations of the Russian-Chinese state border by these aircraft can be expected. The only limiting factor here can be the risk of losing the latest technologies in case of failure, but the more significant will be the fact of violation if it does happen.

If the B-21 Raider receives advanced capabilities for engaging air targets and self-defense, it can become a kind of "flying destroyer" and play the same role that missile destroyers now play as part of an aircraft carrier strike group (AUG), i.e. in fact, the function of striking ground targets can become secondary in relation to the ability to counter enemy aircraft.

In this case, it is more correct to call the B-21 Raider not a bomber, and not even a missile-carrying bomber, but a strategic multifunctional combat aviation complex.

In this case, strike functions can be assigned to F-35 aircraft (in close missions) and to transport aircraft with recoverable stealth unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs), which we considered in the article Combat "Gremlins" US Air Force: the revival of the concept of aircraft carrier aircraft.

A sufficiently large B-21 bomber can be equipped with advanced reconnaissance equipment comparable in effectiveness to those installed on early-range radar detection aircraft (AWACS), powerful electronic warfare systems, and a significantly larger volume of air-to-air weapons than any fighter can take. Maneuverability in the presence of self-defense systems will no longer be a critical factor, and the visibility of the B-21 will be comparable or less than that of the F-22, F-35, Su-57 or J-20.

Ultimately, this can lead to a significant decrease in the role of light fighters in gaining air superiority and reorientation of the air forces of the leading countries of the world to sufficiently large and heavy fighters aimed at gaining air superiority, since light fighters will not be able to fight heavy fighters even in a group, and the task of striking ground / surface targets will increasingly be assigned to the UAV.

In Russia, an aircraft capable of withstanding promising heavy fighters, as well as B-21 Raider aircraft, if they receive all the capabilities discussed in the article, could potentially become a promising long-range interception aircraft complex PAK DP in conjunction with the Okhotnik UAV, which we will talk about in other material.
Author:
Photos used:
nevskii-bastion.ru, topwar.ru, thedrive.com
Articles from this series:
Laser weapons: prospects in the air force. Part of 2
Resist light: protection from laser weapons. Part of 5
Combat "Gremlins" US Air Force: the revival of the concept of aircraft carrier aircraft
Laser weapons on combat aircraft. Is it possible to resist him?
2050 year combat aircraft concept and weapons based on new physical principles
Where will the combat aircraft go: will it press down on the ground or gain altitude??
Aviation performance of the Peresvet combat laser system: carriers, targets, tactics of application
The evolution of the nuclear triad: prospects for the development of the aviation component of the strategic nuclear forces of the Russian Federation
85 comments
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  1. KCA
    KCA 21 August 2020 06: 27 New
    -16
    In Russia, an aircraft capable of withstanding promising heavy fighters, as well as B-21 Raider aircraft, if they receive all the capabilities discussed in the article, could potentially become a promising PAK DA long-range intercept aviation complex in conjunction with the Okhotnik UAV, which we will talk about in other material

    Any stealth / fucking stealth bomber will be spotted by ZGRLS at a distance of more than 2000 km, if it is one / two / three, then lay on them, if there is a massive takeoff, then the Strategic Missile Forces comes into play with all its capabilities, well, all sorts of "Poseidons" also
    1. Shopping Mall
      21 August 2020 06: 55 New
      +1
      Quote: KCA
      In Russia, an aircraft capable of withstanding promising heavy fighters, as well as B-21 Raider aircraft, if they receive all the capabilities discussed in the article, could potentially become a promising PAK DA long-range intercept aviation complex in conjunction with the Okhotnik UAV, which we will talk about in other material

      Any stealth / fucking stealth bomber will be spotted by ZGRLS at a distance of more than 2000 km, if it is one / two / three, then lay on them, if there is a massive takeoff, then the Strategic Missile Forces comes into play with all its capabilities, well, all sorts of "Poseidons" also


      In the output in the article, there was a typo, it meant PAK DP.

      Not every conflict will lead to the use of the Strategic Missile Forces. I have looked at different scenarios in articles:
      What can it be? Nuclear war scenarios https://topwar.ru/173404-kakoj-ona-mozhet-byt-scenarii-jadernoj-vojny.html
      What can it be? Conventional war scenarios https://topwar.ru/173967-kakoj-ona-mozhet-byt-scenarii-konvencionalnoj-vojny.html
      1. KCA
        KCA 21 August 2020 08: 40 New
        +1
        The concept of retaliatory measures to the use of missile weapons is voiced quite clearly, ANY missile fired through the territory of the Russian Federation is considered a carrier of a nuclear warhead, B-2, B-21 or F-16 will launch it, the result may be a response by all means and forces capable of hitting the enemy , well, the fact that a super-mega-fashion bomber will fly up to Moscow at a distance of dropping planning bombs is so ridiculous that there is no point in talking about it
        1. Shopping Mall
          21 August 2020 08: 46 New
          +1
          Quote: KCA
          The concept of retaliatory measures to the use of missile weapons is voiced quite clearly, ANY missile fired through the territory of the Russian Federation is considered a carrier of a nuclear warhead, B-2, B-21 or F-16 will launch it, the result may be a response by all means and forces capable of hitting the enemy , well, the fact that a super-mega-fashion bomber will fly up to Moscow at a distance of dropping planning bombs is so ridiculous that there is no point in talking about it


          The key here is "maybe", and if the conflict is not over our territory? Or are they not launching a rocket, or dropping a bomb? They simply violate the border by 1-3-5-10 km, shoot down missiles fired at them with kinetic intercept systems or aircraft and leave. And will they make such "disturbing" flights all the time?
          1. KCA
            KCA 21 August 2020 08: 54 New
            -3
            Oh, how do the Sshans have missiles of kinetic interception of the S-300V4 and S-400 anti-aircraft missiles? Right from 400 km they shoot down without batting an eye, and S-400 with 40N6E stand and cry, well, how is it ...
            1. Shopping Mall
              21 August 2020 09: 05 New
              -2
              Quote: KCA
              Oh, how do the Sshans have missiles of kinetic interception of the S-300V4 and S-400 anti-aircraft missiles? Right from 400 km they shoot down without batting an eye, and S-400 with 40N6E stand and cry, well, how is it ...


              This is not about what is, but about what is being developed. Projects and terms are also indicated. And by the way, long-range surface-to-air missiles will be a much easier target than rocket-to-air missiles.

              We have interesting developments that can negate the advantages of the United States in self-defense complexes, but about them in another material.

              Although one option has already been considered: Aviation execution of the combat laser complex "Peresvet": carriers, targets, tactics of use
              https://topwar.ru/168374-aviacionnoe-ispolnenie-boevogo-lazernogo-kompleksa-peresvet-nositeli-celi-taktika-primenenija.html
              1. Sanichsan
                Sanichsan 22 August 2020 22: 48 New
                0
                Quote: AVM
                Although one option has already been considered: Aviation execution of the combat laser complex "Peresvet": carriers, targets, tactics of use

                Boeing YAL-1 not? it seems that it is already checked that a dead option.
                and this ... you like
                Quote: AVM
                This is not about what is, but about what is being developed.

                why not talk within this framework of drones with a laser similar to overexposure (well, power supplies develop and soon the required pump power will be crammed into an acceptable volume) and missiles with multiple warheads or hypersonic missiles?
                the catch is that the USA just going to come up with what will oppose what is already there request classic .. generals are preparing for the last war yes
          2. Zaurbek
            Zaurbek 21 August 2020 14: 03 New
            +1
            Plus, PPs and scouts will fly along the border .... and they always deliver the first strike with CD .... they will fly into the territory to drop bombs when there is no real danger.
        2. Sergey Sfiedu
          Sergey Sfiedu 30 September 2020 16: 13 New
          0
          Come on. The conflict can start very commonplace. For example, our and the American soldier in Syria will fight, colleagues will intercede for them, it will come to shooting, aviation will enter into action (as in Tabka). So why fry the world in a nuclear skillet right away?
    2. Outsider
      Outsider 22 August 2020 14: 18 New
      0
      - "But there is a nuance": ZG radars do not work in the polar direction ... Namely, it was from there that for all decades the penetration of American strategic missile carriers into the territory of the USSR, and then Russia was supposed ...
    3. Sergey Sfiedu
      Sergey Sfiedu 30 September 2020 16: 09 New
      0
      "Any stealth / fucking stealth bomber will be spotted by ZGRLS at a distance of more than 2000 km." - ZRGLS is not a panacea. They are few, very few, very vulnerable, and very dependent on the state of the ionosphere. And they have a fucking dead zone. And it's not a fact that the Yato Yankees are not working on electronic warfare against the ZGRLS.
  2. Ka-52
    Ka-52 21 August 2020 06: 29 New
    +4
    If the B-21 Raider receives advanced capabilities for engaging air targets and self-defense, it can become a kind of "flying destroyer" and play the same role that missile destroyers now play as part of an aircraft carrier strike group (AUG), i.e. in fact, the function of striking ground targets can become secondary in relation to the ability to counter enemy aircraft.

    some kind of nonsense. The article began with the author's reasoning about the concept of bomber aviation, and by the end the author slipped to the alternative in the form of "flying RVV batteries".
    A sufficiently large B-21 bomber can be equipped with advanced reconnaissance equipment comparable in effectiveness to those installed on early-range radar detection aircraft (AWACS), powerful electronic warfare systems, and a significantly larger volume of air-to-air weapons than any fighter can take. Maneuverability in the presence of self-defense systems will no longer be a critical factor, and the visibility of the B-21 will be comparable or less than that of the F-22, F-35, Su-57 or J-20.

    the idea, known since the days of the German wunderwaffe, to create a monster and hang it with weapons beyond measure. The author suffered - both RVV suitcases and MSDM batteries and laser installations ... some kind of battery cruiser turned out. But what is the purpose? Turn a bomber into an air supremacy fighter? Rave. Moreover, even if such a monster appeared, it would still have to be accompanied by ordinary F-16/18/35. Since such an elephant will still be shot down, no matter how it is hung with weapons in the style of Schwartz from the movie Commando
    The task of a strategic bomber is to covertly and quickly reach the launch line of guided weapons (KR, KAB / UAB), shoot and leave as far as possible (the YES pilots always understood the weak hope for the latter)
    1. Shopping Mall
      21 August 2020 07: 06 New
      -2
      Quote: Ka-52
      .
      the idea, known since the days of the German wunderwaffe, to create a monster and hang it with weapons beyond measure. The author suffered - both RVV suitcases and MSDM batteries and laser installations ... some kind of battery cruiser turned out. But what is the purpose? Turn a bomber into an air supremacy fighter? Rave. Moreover, even if such a monster appeared, it would still have to be accompanied by ordinary F-16/18/35. Since such an elephant will still be shot down, no matter how it is hung with weapons in the style of Schwartz from the movie Commando
      The task of a strategic bomber is to covertly and quickly reach the launch line of guided weapons (KR, KAB / UAB), shoot and leave as far as possible (the YES pilots always understood the weak hope for the latter)


      Is Destroyer Arlie Burke a Battle Cruiser too? The essence of the message is not that the United States initially creates a bomber as an air superiority fighter, but that this may be the result of an attempt to increase the versatility and security of the bomber.

      Is there a powerful AFAR radar? Why not use its capabilities against to work on air targets.
      Anti-missile missiles developed? It is foolish not to use them on a car as expensive as the B-21. The same applies to laser weapons. And the Americans themselves declare about the missiles. So it turns out what it turns out. EPR B-21 should be like a fighter.

      It turns out that he will be visible as fighters, will see farther than fighters (powerful radar), carry more weapons than fighters. Then what prevents to use it "for other purposes"? And his shock tasks will be better solved by "Gremlins."

      And the PMSM "flying fortresses" were not so easy to shoot down.
      1. Ka-52
        Ka-52 21 August 2020 07: 25 New
        +3
        Is Destroyer Arlie Burke a Battle Cruiser too?

        Arlie is EM URO. Initially, he had the following task. Are you trying to create on the basis of a conceptual aircraft not just a vinaigrette, but generally shove it into an unusual purpose?
        Is there a powerful AFAR radar? Why not use its capabilities against to work on air targets.

        What for? Are you aware that all F-117 and B-2 operations in all conflicts were carried out exclusively in radio silence? A bomber does not need AFAR from the word at all. It is not intended for combat in the air, there are much more adapted aircraft for radio reconnaissance with mapping, there are also no aircraft for the selection of small-sized mobile targets on the surface - its targets are stationary and have long been determined. The only place where a radar with a good resolution against the background of the underlying surface is useful is for launching anti-ship missiles.
        Anti-missile missiles developed? It's foolish not to use them on a car as expensive as the B-21. The same applies to laser weapons.

        Once again, the mission of a heavy bomber is to carry heavy air-to-surface weapons. The fight against air defense aviation is not his task, but escorts.
        1. Shopping Mall
          21 August 2020 08: 07 New
          +1
          Quote: Ka-52
          Is Destroyer Arlie Burke a Battle Cruiser too?

          Arlie is EM URO. Initially, he had the following task. Are you trying to create on the basis of a conceptual aircraft not just a vinaigrette, but generally shove it into an unusual purpose?


          Destroyers did not become this way overnight. And now the entire scope of their functionality is gradually being transferred to frigates, and even to corvettes. This is dictated by the logic of weapons development.

          Now, almost all types of weapons are put on frigates, which were previously only on destroyers, and before that on cruisers. And frigates only chased submarines. Of course the analogy is not straightforward - the size of the ship in the fleet affects seaworthiness, etc., but the general message is clear.

          Quote: Ka-52
          Is there a powerful AFAR radar? Why not use its capabilities against to work on air targets.

          What for? Are you aware that all F-117 and B-2 operations in all conflicts were carried out exclusively in radio silence?


          F-117 is the first pancake that is lumpy. And the B-2 was already prohibitively expensive. And these were the first aircraft of this type. And now stealth alone is not enough, that's why defensive systems are being introduced. And they will definitely implement it. Believe it or not, kinetic and laser self-defense systems will appear on fighters and bombers, and even on transporters and tankers. This is a question for the next decade.

          Quote: Ka-52
          A bomber does not need AFAR from the word at all. It is not intended for combat in the air, there are much more adapted aircraft for radio reconnaissance with mapping, there are also no aircraft for the selection of small-sized mobile targets on the surface - its targets are stationary and have long been determined. The only place where a radar with a good resolution against the background of the underlying surface is useful is for launching anti-ship missiles.


          And what to put on it? Radio altimeter? Or a radar with a Cassegrain antenna?

          There will be a radar station on the B-21 and it will certainly be with AFAR, they (USA) will not release others soon. And yet, the cost of a radar station with AFAR depends on the volume of PPM production, i.e. the more radars are needed, the more PPMs are produced, the cheaper they are.

          The fight against NK has not been canceled either, the PRC is building a fleet like pies.

          Quote: Ka-52
          Anti-missile missiles developed? It's foolish not to use them on a car as expensive as the B-21. The same applies to laser weapons.

          Once again, the mission of a heavy bomber is to carry heavy air-to-surface weapons.


          What for? KAB to throw or free-fall bombs? Cruise missiles can be launched from 3000-5000 km without entering the air defense zone, then it is easier to make a bomber based on a heavy transport aircraft, something like the one discussed here: Evolution of the nuclear triad: prospects for the development of the aviation component of the Russian strategic nuclear forces https://topwar.ru /168863-jevoljucija-jadernoj-triady-perspektivy-razvitija-aviacionnogo-komponenta-sjas-rf.html
          Cheaper and will carry more.

          Actually, it goes to this, in the form of the "Gremlins" mentioned in the article. And then what is the B-21 to do?

          Quote: Ka-52
          The fight against air defense aviation is not his task, but escorts.


          Does anyone now have long-range fighters capable of escorting a strategic bomber?
          1. Ka-52
            Ka-52 21 August 2020 08: 41 New
            +6
            Destroyers did not become this way overnight. And now the entire scope of their functionality is gradually being transferred to frigates, and even to corvettes. This is dictated by the logic of weapons development.

            to demonstrate your logic with B-21 submarines are better suited. This is how to make an air defense ship on the Seawolf base. What for? Unclear.
            The radar station on the B-21 will be and necessarily with AFAR

            will not argue. They wanted to notice 181 on the Spirit 12 years ago, but they didn’t get it.
            What for? KAB to throw or free-fall bombs?

            and what does the United States usually carry democracy? Yes, and we are not driving bearded in Syria RVV laughing
            Cruise missiles can be launched from 3000-5000 km without entering the air defense zone

            if you start to think a little before writing, you will understand that the CD from 5000 km will fly to the target for 6 hours (!!!). Therefore, bringing the launch line closer to the potential target means reducing the flight time. Then why bother underwater, surface and air carriers? I put it on in Alaska, Montana or Oregon PU with Axes and only press the buttons))
            then it's easier to make a bomber based on a heavy transport

            ideas to make flying / floating artillery batteries have surfaced at all times. Most often from poverty. But my personal opinion is that such systems often have much greater disadvantages than advantages. This shows that nowhere in the world is this applied. At a stretch, gunship can be attributed here, but they are far from ideal.
            Does anyone now have long-range fighters capable of escorting a strategic bomber?

            and that we or the Americans have suddenly disappeared in the air refueling system?
            1. Shopping Mall
              21 August 2020 09: 02 New
              -2
              Quote: Ka-52
              Destroyers did not become this way overnight. And now the entire scope of their functionality is gradually being transferred to frigates, and even to corvettes. This is dictated by the logic of weapons development.

              to demonstrate your logic with B-21 submarines are better suited. This is how to make an air defense ship on the Seawolf base. What for? Unclear.


              I also considered this question.
              Atomic Multifunctional Submarine Cruiser: Asymmetrical Response to the West
              https://topwar.ru/139618-atomnyy-mnogofunkcionalnyy-podvodnyy-kreyser-asimmetrichnyy-otvet.html

              Atomic Multifunctional Submarine Cruiser: Paradigm Shift
              https://topwar.ru/143629-atomnyy-mnogofunkcionalnyy-podvodnyy-kreyser-kak-smena-paradigmy.html

              At the border of two environments. The evolution of promising submarines in conditions of increased probability of their detection by the enemy
              https://topwar.ru/170634-na-granice-dvuh-sred-jevoljucija-perspektivnyh-podvodnyh-lodok-v-uslovijah-povyshennoj-verojatnosti-ih-obnaruzhenija-protivnikom.html

              At the border of two environments. Diving surface ship 2025: concept and tactics of application
              https://topwar.ru/171181-na-granice-dvuh-sred-nyrjajuschij-nadvodnyj-korabl-2025-koncept-i-taktika-primenenija.html


              Quote: Ka-52
              What for? KAB to throw or free-fall bombs?

              and what does the United States usually carry democracy? Yes, and we are not driving bearded in Syria RVV laughing


              Yes, but using the B-21 for this is like chasing the Somali pirates with Zamwolt.

              Quote: Ka-52
              Cruise missiles can be launched from 3000-5000 km without entering the air defense zone

              if you start to think a little before writing, you will understand that the CD from 5000 km will fly to the target for 6 hours (!!!). Therefore, bringing the launch line closer to the potential target means reducing the flight time.


              The speed of the bomber is about the same as that of the CD - transonic, so it does not matter at all whether they fly "in the bomber" or outside it.

              Quote: Ka-52
              Then why bother underwater, surface and air carriers? I put it on in Alaska, Montana or Oregon PU with Axes and only press the buttons))


              If the CDs were with a range of 10000-15000 km, then they might have done so.

              Quote: Ka-52
              then it's easier to make a bomber based on a heavy transport

              ideas to make flying / floating artillery batteries have surfaced at all times. Most often from poverty. But my personal opinion is that such systems often have much greater disadvantages than advantages. This shows that nowhere in the world is this applied. At a stretch, gunship can be attributed here, but they are far from ideal.


              It is possible that it was so, but now the United States is developing the Gremlins program very actively.

              Quote: Ka-52
              Does anyone now have long-range fighters capable of escorting a strategic bomber?

              and that we or the Americans have suddenly disappeared in the air refueling system?


              You can work like that, but you also need an unobtrusive transporter. Otherwise, he will burn the whole company.

              And I will repeat myself. I am not saying that the B-21 is being built to gain air superiority, no, this is just a defensive measure in case it is discovered and attacked. But I think it may turn out that the B-21 as a weapon of air supremacy will turn out to be better than the F-22, F-35, not to mention the 4+ generation. In the end, everything will rest on the effectiveness of his (B-21) self-defense systems.
              1. Ka-52
                Ka-52 21 August 2020 09: 33 New
                +4
                I also considered this question.

                yes, I did. Interesting yes
                Yes, but using the B-21 for this is like chasing the Somali pirates with Zamwolt.

                well, why? In the event of suppression of the enemy's air defense, the question of the destruction of its military and technical infrastructure will arise. You will need powerful high-explosive bombs in PM. How to transport them?
                B-21 as a weapon of air supremacy will prove to be better than F-22, F-35, not to mention generation 4+. In the end, everything will rest on the effectiveness of his (B-21) self-defense systems.

                will not appear. Most VO readers (and it is not their fault) imagine air combat as a battle during the civil war in the United States: two ranks went out against each other, jumped out of muskets - whoever shoots better and who has better muskets won. In fact, everything is much more complicated. Much more (by orders of magnitude) input parameters that can lead to a% probability of one or another outcome of an attack with explosive missiles. So I will say sedition for the majority (stones will fly at me), but at certain ratios, quantity always beats quality. That is, when modeling WB outcomes, a greater number of victories will remain for aircraft below the technical level, but if their advantage is 1: 3. Of course, there is an understanding that both sides are in equal tactical conditions. Strange but true
                1. Shopping Mall
                  21 August 2020 15: 45 New
                  0
                  Quote: Ka-52
                  ... So I will say sedition for the majority (stones will fly at me), but at certain ratios, quantity always beats quality. That is, when modeling WB outcomes, a greater number of victories will remain for aircraft below the technical level, but if their advantage is 1: 3. Well, of course there is an understanding that both sides are in equal tactical conditions. Strange but true


                  I would say that there must be a certain level of technical compliance. In the sense that 1000 MiG-21 will not cope with 100 F-35.

                  And the second point is weapons. You can rivet 300 Su-35s against 150 F-15SEs, but if these Su-35s have ammunition from the old R-27s, and the enemy has from the newest AIM-120s with ARLGSN, then we will blow it.
                  1. Ka-52
                    Ka-52 24 August 2020 04: 33 New
                    +1
                    I would say that there must be a certain level of technical compliance. In the sense that 1000 MiG-21 will not cope with 100 F-35.


                    win. This is exactly what I wrote about above. You are still using tactics from the days of the first muskets. When using tactically competent formation in the air, 1000 MiG21s, if they do not win, then certainly will inflict catastrophic losses of 100 F-35s. Taking into account the difference in cost and production speed, the victory will be for the MiG.
                    And the second point is weapons. You can rivet 300 Su-35s against 150 F-15SEs, but if these Su-35s have ammunition from the old R-27s, and the enemy has from the newest AIM-120s with ARLGSN, then we will blow it.

                    stupidity. read above. You have a tram thinking - where the rails are laid there and go. Especially for you, I will give an example / analogy in WWII: the armor and weapons of German tigers allowed them to hit T-34s at a distance of up to 2000m. To defeat the tigers, the thirty-fours had to approach at a distance of 600m. But they beat and won in the end.
          2. KCA
            KCA 21 August 2020 09: 09 New
            +2
            I repeat once again - the takeoff of one supermegabomber will not excite anyone, it alone will not cause global damage even to a huge country like Estonia, and the takeoff of tens or hundreds of B-2, B-52 and future B-21s will cause itching between the buns of the Chief Commander and the Minister of Defense shit, just give the order
          3. KCA
            KCA 21 August 2020 13: 54 New
            0
            I apologize, but please name a KAB with a gliding range of 3000-5000 km, PPC, as I seem to have lagged behind the capabilities of the Air Force's destruction forces, quite recently, when Putin said about the X-102's range over 5000 km in the west, there was a shock with diarrhea, and you have a KAB for 5000 km, this is generally tin, the whole world is in dust
            1. Shopping Mall
              21 August 2020 14: 29 New
              0
              Quote: KCA
              I apologize, but please name a KAB with a gliding range of 3000-5000 km, PPC, as I seem to have lagged behind the capabilities of the Air Force's destruction forces, quite recently, when Putin said about the X-102's range over 5000 km in the west, there was a shock with diarrhea, and you have a KAB for 5000 km, this is generally tin, the whole world is in dust


              5000 it was about the CD.

              What for? KAB to throw or free-fall bombs? Cruise missiles can be launched from 3000-5000 km without entering the air defense zone
        2. common man
          common man 21 August 2020 08: 20 New
          0
          Quote: Ka-52
          The fight against air defense aviation is not his task, but escorts.

          If you only use it as an escort, cover for "clean" bombers, to break through the air defense. Due to the large radius of action, there is no need for refueling in the air. Although given the number of bases in NATO countries, this is not relevant for the United States. Any fighter will fly to the center of Russia. This is more relevant for us. Bundle, bomber and air defense cover aircraft.
      2. Dmitry V.
        Dmitry V. 21 August 2020 12: 06 New
        +3
        Quote: AVM
        Is there a powerful AFAR radar? Why not use its capabilities against to work on air targets


        This unmasks and minimizes the benefits of STEALTH technology. Its directional pattern limits the use only in the front hemisphere (additional antennas - side and rear view are significantly inferior in power / detection range). Accordingly, with such an application, you will have to perform maneuvering (tacking), which does not in the best way affect the visibility. In addition, the location area is triangulated by radio emission.
        Stealth aircraft attack effectively when receiving data from an external source (target designation / irradiation).

        On the whole, the concept of a "large carrier" of long-range V-V missiles that you expressed is taking place.

        The complex should consist of:
        - detection system (airborne AWACS circular view)
        - air carrier of long-range missiles V-V
        - UAVs for penetrating air defense zones to deliver strikes V-V V-P
    2. KCA
      KCA 21 August 2020 08: 46 New
      0
      Tell me why AFAR was not used in Soviet fighters, and is not used now, although they were developed in the USSR, many years earlier than in the progressive west, is it possible that mice have rummaged somewhere and everything is not as it seems?
      1. Ka-52
        Ka-52 21 August 2020 09: 07 New
        +3
        Tell me why AFAR was not used in Soviet fighters, and is not used now, although they were developed precisely in the USSR, many years earlier than in the progressive west,

        the first AFARs began to appear on combat vehicles in the early 2000s. At that time, as you remember, we were just making the first attempts to pull the Russian military-industrial complex and the army out of the deepest ass. What kind of AFAR is there ...
        1. KCA
          KCA 21 August 2020 09: 18 New
          0
          AFAR is a huge jo in the front of the fighter, it requires water cooling, well, a very unreliable system, at exhibitions and parades the very thing, but in battle, well, I never believe that all our military leaders associated with aviation were stupid people and overlooked advantages of AFAR
          1. Shopping Mall
            21 August 2020 09: 45 New
            0
            Quote: KCA
            AFAR is a huge jo in the front of the fighter, it requires water cooling, well, a very unreliable system, at exhibitions and parades the very thing, but in battle, well, I never believe that all our military leaders associated with aviation were stupid people and overlooked advantages of AFAR


            It's not about the intelligence of the military leaders, but about the technology. No one doubts the advantages of processors, but not everyone can do them.

            See how the number of companies that can make processors has decreased with the decrease in the technical process. On the 7 nm process technology, even Intel cannot establish production with access to all Western technologies - only TSMC and Samsung remained. And machines capable of making 7 nm processors are produced by only one company in the world, ASML. This is what the complication of technology means.

            And the release of AFAR - PPM for her, software, is not an easy task. And as I already wrote somewhere in the comments, the cost of AFAR is proportional to the volume of their release (like that of processors). More radars, more PPMs are produced, their cost is lower. It turns out that the rich AFAR army is cheaper than the poor.
            1. KCA
              KCA 21 August 2020 10: 53 New
              +3
              The release of 7nm microcircuits in no way relates to either the military sphere of application or the space one, the F-22 flies on the i386 and other processors 40 years ago, Mininman-3 yesterday received a flight task on 8-inch floppy disks, they say, they updated, but I'm not sure that everyone got off the IBM / 360, sample 1962
              1. Shopping Mall
                21 August 2020 11: 31 New
                -1
                Quote: KCA
                The release of 7nm microcircuits in no way relates to either the military sphere of application or the space one, the F-22 flies on the i386 and other processors 40 years ago, Mininman-3 yesterday received a flight task on 8-inch floppy disks, they say, they updated, but I'm not sure that everyone got off the IBM / 360, sample 1962


                This is an example of how the increasing complexity of technology affects the number of people who can master it.

                The F-22 has processors that are relevant to the time of its development. It's just that the progress of electronics is going very quickly, with the modernization of the avionics they will update. Read about the F-35 electronics https://habr.com/ru/post/453538/
                1. KCA
                  KCA 21 August 2020 14: 09 New
                  +2
                  In 1988, "Buran" made a completely autonomous take-off, flight and landing, was controlled by 4 computers "Biser-4", 4 for reliability, actually one, there were "Biser" not a trailer to the rocket, each weighed about 130 kg, you yourself read about electronics, for general development, look for 64K demo in tyrnet, these are enthusiasts who rivet demo programs in 64 kilobytes, especially beautiful graphics, control of takeoff and landing on an asteroid, taking into account all the effects of mutual gravity, fit into 64 kilobytes, kilobytes, and not terabyte, IBM AT 4.62MHz is enough for their flight
                  1. Shopping Mall
                    21 August 2020 14: 34 New
                    -3
                    Quote: KCA
                    In 1988, "Buran" made a completely autonomous take-off, flight and landing, was controlled by 4 computers "Biser-4", 4 for reliability, actually one, there were "Biser" not a trailer to the rocket, each weighed about 130 kg, you yourself read about electronics, for general development, look for 64K demo in tyrnet, these are enthusiasts who rivet demo programs in 64 kilobytes, especially beautiful graphics, control of takeoff and landing on an asteroid, taking into account all the effects of mutual gravity, fit into 64 kilobytes, kilobytes, and not terabyte, IBM AT 4.62MHz is enough for their flight


                    Modern aircraft sensors, especially optical sensors, provide a huge amount of information. For example, solving the problem of "transparent armor", when the pilot looks as if "through" the skin of the aircraft. The data from several cameras must be correlated so that the pilot looks as if with his own eyes, at the same time, almost instantly. The slightest out of sync will render such a system useless.

                    Other tasks are data exchange, image transfer. Data transmission channels are limited in speed, avionics have to reap them "on the fly".
                    1. KCA
                      KCA 21 August 2020 14: 49 New
                      +2
                      You did not study such a subject as computer science at school, there is an array of information, but there is the necessary data from this array, if with all the data speed, altitude and trajectory are important, you can ignore everything else, ZGRLO detects any crap at a distance of over 2500 km , the entire air defense of the Russian Federation immediately takes off, now do not hump at the helm, any rubbish will be shot on clothes
          2. Outsider
            Outsider 22 August 2020 14: 22 New
            -2
            - They did not "overlook", they did not schmogli organize the development and production of them. And they still can't.
    3. Dmitry Nikolaevich Fedunov
      Dmitry Nikolaevich Fedunov 21 August 2020 08: 53 New
      0
      Quote: Ka-52
      The task of a strategic bomber is to covertly and quickly reach the launch line of guided weapons (KR, KAB / UAB), shoot and leave as far as possible (the YES pilots always understood the weak hope for the latter)

      So the concept of using "strategists" is changing - why again prepare for the "last war"? The author is right - you have to think (prepare) about future (possible) challenges.
      1. Ka-52
        Ka-52 21 August 2020 09: 01 New
        +4
        The author is right - you have to think (prepare) about future (possible) challenges.

        what is your future war? Is that why a strategic bomber should be converted into a flying fortress to fight enemy fighters? Are you a fan of alternatives? In the real world, and not in your fictional universe, long-range bomber aircraft are recruited to engage strategic ground targets. The fight against air defense aviation must be left to your fighters to gain air supremacy. They are sharpened for this and have all the possibilities for this.
        1. voyaka uh
          voyaka uh 21 August 2020 19: 26 New
          +2
          "convert into a flying fortress to fight enemy fighters?" ///
          ----
          You gave a great example good
          "Flying Fortress" was armed with 12 heavy machine guns
          (from all sides) for self-defense. He was a strategist who knew how to stand up for himself.
          And they are going to put a weapon on Raider that allows him to
          attacking fighters. What's so strange about that?
          1. Sanichsan
            Sanichsan 22 August 2020 23: 11 New
            +1
            Quote: voyaka uh
            It was a strategist who knew how to stand up for himself.

            and then Black Thursday in the alley of moments and even the cover did not save request
          2. Ka-52
            Ka-52 24 August 2020 04: 41 New
            0
            "Flying Fortress" was armed with 12 heavy machine guns
            (from all sides) for self-defense. He was a strategist who knew how to stand up for himself.

            do you need to remind WHAT was the superforstrer created for? It was designed to hit targets on the ground. To repel attacks in the air, fortresses had to use a special formation in a closed formation. Only then could they withstand the attacks of German fighters. Rather, make your death too expensive for the enemy. Plus they were necessarily accompanied by cover fighters. Only a few broke through to the bombers, which the cover missed.
            And in the case of the B-21, firstly, the author is trying to turn it into an aircraft to combat enemy aircraft. Secondly, at the cost of B-21, there will be no talk of any dense tunings. They will destroy your vaunted fortress if it goes unaccompanied to break through the air defense.
            1. voyaka uh
              voyaka uh 24 August 2020 09: 07 New
              0
              "firstly, the author is trying to turn it into an aircraft to combat enemy aircraft." ///
              ---
              This is not the author, this is your interpretation.
              The Raider is subsonic and almost unable to maneuver. How can it become an "anti-aircraft aircraft"?
              He will be able to protect himself from the explosive missiles of enemy fighters with the help of all-aspect interceptor missiles being developed now. Whether it will work out is unknown.
              1. Ka-52
                Ka-52 24 August 2020 10: 13 New
                +1
                Alexey, either you have not read the article, or you prefer to argue for the sake of the dispute itself, and not for the sake of finding the truth No.
                here, we look at the words of the author:
                If the B-21 Raider receives advanced capabilities for engaging air targets and self-defense, it can become a kind of "flying destroyer" and play the same role that missile destroyers now play as part of an aircraft carrier strike group (AUG). those. in fact the function of striking ground targets may become secondary, in relation to the ability to combat enemy aircraft.

                specially highlighted for you if it is difficult for you to understand the words of the author yourself wink
                all-aspect interceptor missiles.

                they need to equip MFIs. To reduce the potential threat of defeat in aerial combat. but here a compromise in combat load is important - the more self-defense means, the less offensive means
                1. voyaka uh
                  voyaka uh 24 August 2020 10: 16 New
                  0
                  Didn't re-read the article, really. You're right. drinks
                  Raider will not become a "flying destroyer", but he will probably be able to become a "prickly thing".
                  1. Ka-52
                    Ka-52 24 August 2020 10: 33 New
                    +2
                    a difficult target, which will be very difficult to shoot down by a simple interception. Especially if it is (and this would be the most expedient) accompanied by unmanned aerial vehicles that take on target designation and electronic warfare and defensive functions
  3. rocket757
    rocket757 21 August 2020 07: 06 New
    0
    ... If the US Air Force feels that the defensive systems of the B-21 are able to effectively protect it from Russian and Chinese air-to-air and surface-to-air missiles, then we can expect an increase in cases of violations of the state border of Russia and China by these aircraft.

    Apparently, none of the serious players is going to stop there!
    With the already known weapons systems, no one can achieve a global advantage.
    The game is long and it is unlikely that most of us will wait for something outstanding new!
    Such is ce la vie.
  4. sevtrash
    sevtrash 21 August 2020 09: 12 New
    0
    Interesting article. This concept is directed against China, apparently, in the first place. There are no more opponents. Self-defense of the aircraft, lasers, missiles - a new stage of active counteraction is most impressive.
    1. Grazdanin
      Grazdanin 21 August 2020 09: 41 New
      -4
      Quote: sevtrash
      This concept is directed against China, apparently, in the first place. There are no more opponents.

      Quite right. Russia does not pose a threat (except for the Strategic Missile Forces) and in the future the potential will only decline. Yes and no conflict of interest, we really have nothing to share with the United States. Unlike China
  5. Grazdanin
    Grazdanin 21 August 2020 10: 05 New
    0
    Rapid Power Projection for the United States is the cornerstone of army building. The sphere of US interests is the whole world, it is impossible to keep the army everywhere, so the possibility of a quick transfer is needed. Now AUG is becoming too slow and limited in capabilities. The creation of an aviation analogue of the AUG is more than realistic.
    Arsenals, UAVs, B-21s, AWACS, bombers, tankers will be able to fly from US territory to anywhere in the world in less than a day. UAV fighters and B-21 group security tasks; shock UAVs, missiles and bombs from arsenal aircraft and bombers ground strikes.
    The army of the conditional Iran, by similar forces, will simply be destroyed. Against China as a qualitative strengthening of the Navy and a strike from the southwest.
  6. g1washntwn
    g1washntwn 21 August 2020 10: 08 New
    +1
    After going through the stages "We will not be knocked down ..."
    ...on high
    ... at high speed
    ... under the protection of electronic warfare
    ... near the ground
    are beginning to admit that the game "... under the cover of stealth" is no longer cake. Otherwise, why are there active means of self-defense? Will the sniper and campers go head-on? Something is highly doubtful.
    1. Shopping Mall
      21 August 2020 10: 37 New
      -1
      Quote: g1washntwn
      After going through the stages "We will not be knocked down ..."
      ...on high
      ... at high speed
      ... under the protection of electronic warfare
      ... near the ground
      are beginning to admit that the game "... under the cover of stealth" is no longer cake. Otherwise, why are there active means of self-defense? Will the sniper and campers go head-on? Something is highly doubtful.


      Stealth is one of the elements of protection. Relatively speaking, the probability of a missile hitting an aircraft with an RCS of 25 m2 will be about 0,9, an aircraft with an RCS of 1 m2 of about 07, with an RCS of 0,01 m2 of about 0,5 (the numbers are taken conditionally). Radar missiles with ARLGSN have much more modest capabilities than powerful airborne radars, respectively, and the chance to miss it increases, especially in combination with the work of electronic warfare systems.
      1. Ryaruav
        Ryaruav 21 August 2020 11: 14 New
        0
        you understand that as soon as your airborne radar has started working, even with a super afar you are already visible even at a distance exceeding the effective range of your radar, you are taken to be escorted by air defense systems and you have already been named type 12 hamsters and the s-400 complex has already accepted you even after your turn off the radar and turn it off, she will find you well, maybe not alone but with her sister
        1. Shopping Mall
          21 August 2020 11: 20 New
          0
          Quote: Ryaruav
          you understand that as soon as your airborne radar has started working, even with a super afar you are already visible even at a distance exceeding the effective range of your radar, you are taken to be escorted by air defense systems and you have already been named type 12 hamsters and the s-400 complex has already accepted you even after your turn off the radar and turn it off, she will find you well, maybe not alone but with her sister


          The radar with AFAR has stealthy modes of operation, completely passive modes, the possibility of forming beams with a narrow directivity pattern, setting sighting interference, so it's not so simple.

          And it doesn't have to be turned on until the moment you are discovered. After all, in order to detect stealth, you must also turn on the radar? The ground can be bypassed, taking into account the most favorable angles of its EPR or by firing an anti-radar missile. An attacking fighter with a radar also unmasks itself first - the rule works in both directions, and you can use it to work out long-range missiles in-in. And you turn on the radar yourself only when you are sure that you have been found, and you need to take the battle - to put up interference, direct missiles and anti-missiles.
          1. Ryaruav
            Ryaruav 21 August 2020 11: 24 New
            +2
            comrade, the directional diagram is nothing to do with the work of your radar will be immediately determined by the radio intelligence service
            1. The comment was deleted.
            2. Shopping Mall
              21 August 2020 14: 38 New
              +1
              Quote: Ryaruav
              comrade, the directional diagram is nothing to do with the work of your radar will be immediately determined by the radio intelligence service


              The width of the directional pattern of the radar with AFAR is about 2x2 degrees along the normal to the center of the AFAR canvas. A radar with AFAR can form several different beams at once. The narrower the beam of the directional pattern, the less chances that this beam will be detected.

          2. Ryaruav
            Ryaruav 21 August 2020 11: 30 New
            +1
            Andrey our surveillance radar operates 250 km from the contact line of warheads and it is covered from all this stealth tinsel, especially when the plates fall off and the technology itself, as we can see, is not brought to mind
          3. Ka-52
            Ka-52 21 August 2020 11: 48 New
            +2
            Radar with AFAR has stealth modes of operation

            and how will hidden modes help you in guidance and target designation?
            The narrower the beam of the directional pattern, the higher the directivity of the antenna (the same energy is radiated in a narrower sector, more concentrated), the greater the detection range, the less chances that this beam will be detected by everyone who is not lazy. The AFAR radar has an extremely low level of side lobes, parasitic radiation patterns, glowing in all directions.

            namesake, no need to pass off fantasy as reality.
            The motors are shielded from below and from the sides, and are forcedly cooled by air flows.

            it is not the engine casing itself that has a high contrast, but the nozzle and jet stream. You can't do anything with a nozzle. A jet stream can be dispersed, but it will still remain warm-contrast, a matter of distance
            1. Shopping Mall
              21 August 2020 12: 01 New
              0
              Quote: Ka-52
              Radar with AFAR has stealth modes of operation

              and how will hidden modes help you in guidance and target designation?


              How does the radar work in LPI mode? Of course, we can say that this mode will be detected, but this can only be done by a technique of a comparable class.

              Passive mode allows you to determine the location of the enemy aircraft, to release a missile in-in with an ARLGSN without turning on its radar.

              Quote: Ka-52
              The narrower the beam of the directional pattern, the higher the directivity of the antenna (the same energy is radiated in a narrower sector, more concentrated), the greater the detection range, the less chances that this beam will be detected by everyone who is not lazy. The AFAR radar has an extremely low level of side lobes, parasitic radiation patterns, glowing in all directions.

              namesake, no need to pass off fantasy as reality.


              Fantasies are not mine, but I agree with them. Actually, this is what AFAR is needed for, so it is more difficult for it to interfere, since the radar simply makes a "dip" of the radiation pattern to the source of interference.

              Quote: Ka-52
              The motors are shielded from below and from the sides, and are forcedly cooled by air flows.

              it is not the engine casing itself that has a high contrast, but the nozzle and jet stream. You can't do anything with a nozzle. A jet stream can be dispersed, but it will still remain warm-contrast, a matter of distance


              Yes, of course, there are no absolute stealths in any range. We are always talking only about a decrease in the detection range, a decrease in the capture range for tracking (for missiles with IR seeker), an increase in the likelihood of disruption of target lock, etc.
              1. Ka-52
                Ka-52 21 August 2020 12: 18 New
                +3
                How does the radar work in LPI mode? Of course, we can say that this mode will be detected, but this can only be done by a technique of a comparable class.
                Passive mode allows you to determine the location of the enemy aircraft, to release a missile in-in with an ARLGSN without turning on its radar.

                First of all, LPI is overestimated by adherents, because it allows covert scanning at a fairly limited distance - up to 60 km. At such a distance, the source will already be detected, guaranteed by the enemy's radar, even with stealth technology. Secondly, in practice, this is really a variant of using only missiles on the principle of launching "towards" the enemy, in the hope that further ARLGSN will find the target itself. That does not increase the% of probable success and the only calculation is that the enemy himself will stop the attack and will be forced to counter-maneuver.
                harder to get in the way

                I agree with noise immunity
                Yes, of course, there are no absolute stealths in any range. We are always talking only about a decrease in the detection range, a decrease in the capture range for tracking (for missiles with IR seeker), an increase in the likelihood of disruption of target capture, etc.

                and here you are right yes
              2. Old Michael
                Old Michael 21 August 2020 16: 40 New
                -1
                Plus I put it. But he was surprised why there are so many words both in the article and in the comments about AFAR?
                It seems that the fundamental problems of ROFAR have been overcome (mostly). The issues of technology come to the fore - how to rivet this thing in commercial quantities at an acceptable cost.
                It is clear that ROFAR is not a panacea, but the advantages in power engineering (including due to the higher efficiency), in the lower intensity of parasitic radiation and greater secrecy in passive modes give reason to believe that this idea will develop intensively.
                And taking into account the planned timing of the aircraft's serial production, we can expect it to be equipped with stations with ROFAR. And the expansion of sectors of their work far beyond the front hemisphere.
                Regards, M.
                PS The fact that ROFAR is essentially the same AFAR need not be explained.
                1. Avior
                  Avior 21 August 2020 18: 42 New
                  +2
                  Do you know any real-life Rofar radars?
                  Anyway, any ground, air, any?
                  Give me a link....
                  1. Old Michael
                    Old Michael 21 August 2020 20: 49 New
                    0
                    Do you know any real-life Rofar radars?

                    Have you seen a serial, or at least a pre-production model of the aircraft?
                    Try reading again:

                    … The fundamental problems of ROFAR have been overcome (mostly). Technology issues come to the fore ...
                    And taking into account the planned timing of the aircraft's serial production, we can expect it to be equipped with stations with ROFAR.

                    The fundamental possibility of creating such systems has been confirmed, at least on prototypes.
                    1. Avior
                      Avior 21 August 2020 21: 50 New
                      +2
                      It is very far from the prototype to the real product.
                      Can you give a link to a working prototype? With confirmed fundamental capabilities?
                      And I did not ask about the radar of this particular aircraft, what is the connection in general, this radar is not in ground form, or on another aircraft, in principle, cannot be installed?
                      What kind of radar, any such type of link can you give?
                      1. Old Michael
                        Old Michael 21 August 2020 22: 15 New
                        -1
                        can you give a link to a working prototype? With confirmed fundamental capabilities?

                        How do you imagine that?
                        Give the number (not the form) of the admission, then we will continue.
                      2. Avior
                        Avior 21 August 2020 22: 52 New
                        +2
                        I just imagine. Give me a link.
                      3. Old Michael
                        Old Michael 21 August 2020 22: 56 New
                        -1
                        Link to what? Scan a document, upload it to the cloud and send a private ShortLink?
  7. g1washntwn
    g1washntwn 21 August 2020 12: 12 New
    0
    In my example, it is generalized what they were betting on to break through the air defense / missile defense. It is clear that now they use a complex of all available methods to increase survival, otherwise they would not try to shove "all this" into the B-21 like into a Swiss penknife.
    About ARLGSN you are missing the fact that the closer the active head is to stealth, the less of this stealth is left for deceiving the head. Selection of interference and aiming at its source has been one of the active areas since the "invention" of electronic warfare. So there is no linear dependence for a long time and they are trying to shove anti-missiles into these stealths not for beauty. Long distances to detection equipment and launch "from the shadows" are the credo of stealth. In the case of a bomber, it is only suitable for crawling through the bushes on the belly, making one long-range but fatal CD shot (free-falling Papuans can be handed out cheaper), and just as imperceptibly try to change position / retreat to the original ones. That is why I say that the sniper, which stealth is, will never rush into the attack having hung himself on machine-gun belts, body armor and three machine guns. God is God, to Caesar is Caesar.
  • Ryaruav
    Ryaruav 21 August 2020 10: 48 New
    +1
    what to do with the infrared trail of high-temperature engines, flights at low altitudes catastrophically eat up the range of application of tactical aviation, smart missiles fired at an altitude of 70 meters will not find targets in the active mode of the GOS terrain folds to help and a highlight for ay dudes, at an hour all communication and positioning systems even super secret full jamming of all frequencies will be simply jammed with interference, for today this is not a problem
    1. Shopping Mall
      21 August 2020 11: 22 New
      0
      Quote: Ryaruav
      what to do with the infrared trail of high-temperature engines, flights at low altitudes catastrophically eat up the range of application of tactical aviation, smart missiles fired at an altitude of 70 meters will not find targets in the active mode of the GOS terrain folds to help and a highlight for ay dudes, at an hour all communication and positioning systems even super secret full jamming of all frequencies will be simply jammed with interference, for today this is not a problem


      PMSM aviation will gradually return to high and medium altitudes - Where will the combat aviation go: will it press down on the ground or gain altitude? https://topwar.ru/162562-kuda-ujdet-boevaja-aviacija-prizhmetsja-k-zemle-ili-naberet-vysotu.html

      The motors are shielded from below and from the sides, and are forcedly cooled by air flows.
  • Ryaruav
    Ryaruav 21 August 2020 10: 09 New
    -1
    all this newfangled garbage launched by amers and picked up by our budget cutting specialists is all garbage, why do you need super stealth if you use weapons outside the detection of enemy air defense it is not easier and cheaper to invest in shock systems with the ability to break through enemy air defense defenses, but cheap and reliable carriers like Tu-95, Tu-22, V-52, they already exist and serve very well, these are soldiers' cars and here not everyone remembers and knows how then the vaunted F-117 got crap in Nicaragua or I don't remember myself in Panama, but that's a fact
  • eklmn
    eklmn 21 August 2020 13: 52 New
    -2
    “The appearance of the Penetrating Counter Air fighter will most likely depend on the success of the Russian and Chinese Air Forces in their development.”
    The Russian and Chinese air forces have already achieved successes - the Su-57 and J-20. Therefore, the US Navy decided to develop its own aircraft to replace the F-18 Hornets and equate it with the TTP Su-57 and J-20. The aircraft will be pilot and stealth.
    Because Since 2020, the Pentagon will cut $$$ by 5%, then the Navy cannot develop from scratch, it is expensive, so they take the F-35 airframe as a basis and increase it. The aircraft will have 2 engines (already under development).
    “The new adaptive cycle engine, currently under development, adds a third stream to the existing afterburner turbofan engine design, allowing the pilot to optimize the engine for high performance or long range. General Electric, which is developing an adaptive cycle engine for the F-35, believes the new engine will increase the aircraft's range by 50%. "
    “Partial redesign of the aircraft's fuselage could increase the F-35's fuel capacity, allowing the new aircraft to meet its target of 50 percent longer range. Upgrading the avionics, computer system, and perhaps even the F-35's onboard laser weapons would complete what might ultimately be called the F-35D. ”
  • Arthur 85
    Arthur 85 21 August 2020 18: 20 New
    -1
    Something this resembles Manilovism. Kinetic ammunition should aim perfectly at the target, it's not that easy. Again, with a laser weapon in a container (!) - how are you going to aim it?
    Well, I remain in my opinion - strategic aviation is basically unnecessary, and if you really need it - load 10 ballistic missiles, or 100 RVV, or 100 free-fall bombs on a civil aircraft. Add six AFARs and a serious computer to it (take it from the players in the WTO), and there will be an ultimate means of air war.
    1. Shopping Mall
      22 August 2020 09: 39 New
      0
      Quote: Arthur 85
      Something this resembles Manilovism. Kinetic ammunition should aim perfectly at the target, it's not that easy.


      Not easy, that's why they come to this only now. At first, Hit-to-Kill was implemented for anti-missiles, since this is more likely to ensure the defeat of the warhead of a ballistic missile, then in anti-aircraft missiles, to defeat carriers, now they move on to defeat ammunition.

      If the target is at a high altitude and range, then missiles in-in and z-in already lose energy, and do not maneuver if the target does not evade, i.e. they are not the most difficult target - especially large long range items. And if they are introduced to maneuvering modes to evade anti-missile missiles, the range will decrease, since energy will be lost. Anti-missiles are always a plus here, since they do not need a range of 50-200 km, 5-15 km is enough.

      Quote: Arthur 85
      Again, with a laser weapon in a container (!) - how are you going to aim it?


      I don’t know, I’m not developing it, this is an American project. But I can assume that according to the data from the radar and OLS, and the very displacement of the laser beam is carried out by the optical guidance system. By the way, this is a very complex element, it's not even about tracking the target, this is most likely relatively simple, but about compensating for nonlinear distortions introduced by the atmosphere.
  • DrVintorez
    DrVintorez 21 August 2020 18: 54 New
    -1
    when I see numbers of 100 or more bombers ordered by the United States, I have a question, and with whom are you going to fight, sick?
    who is the aggressor here?
    in my childhood there was a book-magazine "Where does the threat to the world come from", and now it is more relevant than when I saw it for the first time.
    1. voyaka uh
      voyaka uh 21 August 2020 19: 32 New
      0
      With China. China has become the main economic competitor
      and a strategic enemy of the United States.
    2. Shopping Mall
      24 August 2020 13: 03 New
      0
      Quote: DrVintorez
      .
      in my childhood there was a book-magazine "Where does the threat to the world come from", and now it is more relevant than when I saw it for the first time.


      In my childhood, I also came across the book "Washington against the Liberated Countries", found it lying on the street. For the first time, I learned from it the names of American military-industrial corporations - Raytneon, Lockheed Martin ...

      https://www.ozon.ru/context/detail/id/19434109/
  • Mikhail Zakharov
    Mikhail Zakharov 21 August 2020 19: 05 New
    -1
    this will be the complete superiority of the potential enemy in the air and there is nothing to oppose
  • Gunther
    Gunther 22 August 2020 03: 55 New
    -2
    In Russian literature there is such an odious character - Mitrofanushka)))
    Why am I, but to the fact that the author does not understand - the "new physical principle" is a principle not known before, but what the author was talking about was known a quarter of a century or more ago.
    So why so persistently broadcast the stupidity of the poor and victims of the Bologna education system using oxymorons like "digital economy", "weapons based on new physical principles" and God forgive me - "remote education".
    1. Shopping Mall
      22 August 2020 09: 43 New
      0
      Quote: Gunter
      In Russian literature there is such an odious character - Mitrofanushka)))
      Why am I, but to the fact that the author does not understand - the "new physical principle" is a principle not known before, but what the author was talking about was known a quarter of a century or more ago.
      So why so persistently broadcast the stupidity of the poor and victims of the Bologna education system using oxymorons like "digital economy", "weapons based on new physical principles" and God forgive me - "remote education".


      There are commonly used designations that were not invented by the author, and the concept of "Weapons based on new physical principles" does not mean that a "gravity" has been invented, but only a certain number of promising weapons, in particular, on the website of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation:
      Weapons on new physical principles
      New types of weapons, the damaging factors of which are based on processes and phenomena previously not used for military purposes. At the beginning of the 21st century, in various stages of development and testing there are: directed energy weapons (laser, accelerator, microwave, infrasonic); electromagnetic weapons (ultra-high-frequency, types of laser); non-lethal weapons, the so-called not lethal; geophysical weapons (seismic, climatic, ozone, environmental); radiological, etc. A special place is occupied by a weapon of destructive effect on the genetic apparatus of people - a genetic weapon.

      A directed energy weapon, a type of weapon whose damaging effect is based on radiated energy concentrated in a narrow beam. By O. AD include: beam weapons that use as the main damaging factor thermomechanical action to destroy manpower, equipment, destruction of objects and engineering structures (see. Laser weapons, Accelerating weapons); ultra-high-frequency weapons - radio-frequency electromagnetic radiation to disable electronic devices; infrasonic weapons - infrasonic vibrations to destroy manpower. All types of O. AD practically inertialess and, with the exception of infrasonic weapons, instantaneous. The transfer of energy in them occurs at the speed of light or approaches it. A positive property of the O.E. is its secrecy, surprise, the ability to instantly disable electronic systems, which leads to disorganization of management. However, for the effective action of O. n.e. high-energy radiation sources and high-speed systems for detection, identification, target acquisition and targeting of weapons are needed. In this direction, the main efforts of the developers of the OE are concentrated. The greatest successes have been achieved in improving laser weapons.
  • Bez 310
    Bez 310 22 August 2020 07: 42 New
    -1
    The author has splashed everything Google can reach into the article.
    Some kind of vinaigrette from near-aviation information.
    Maybe it was necessary to follow the advice of the leader - "Better less,
    yes better "?
    But this "revelation" - "... in conjunction with the UAV" Okhotnik ", it has become
    some kind of aviation mantra. There is no UAV yet, but the mantra is already there ...
  • Old Skeptic
    Old Skeptic 22 August 2020 15: 07 New
    0
    (I only ask)
    And what is the relationship, any stealth, with VHF ground stations?
    And what is the accuracy (resolution) of these stations?
  • Momotomba
    Momotomba 22 August 2020 21: 54 New
    0
    Experience shows that everything that is universal usually sums up the minuses, not the pluses. If this masalet has so many defensive weapons, how much can it take "useful" for a bomber? Or will it be a strategic attack aircraft?
  • yehat2
    yehat2 24 August 2020 17: 32 New
    0
    It seems to me that the concept of the RSA fighter will lead to the same thing that in due time left the race of cruiser fighters.
    A number of very powerful, beautiful and useless ships, like Alaska, were launched.
  • ifdru74
    ifdru74 24 August 2020 19: 32 New
    0
    There's a swarm of loitering ammunition for any high-tech crap. Such crap flies on a wing of large aspect ratio, at an altitude of 15-20 km, communicates with the satellite / MIG31, and when the fuel runs out, it goes to the airfield, where refueling and maintenance are carried out. In case of detection of an unidentified target in the patrol area or instructions where to find the target, it shoots off its wings and tries to catch up with the target in rocket mode. Or the carrier fires several long-range air-to-air missiles and is sent to the airfield to replenish ammunition. You can reduce the visibility, you can use passive means of detection on patrol and communicate with the satellite / MIG31 by laser. The price of such a solution is not high; it is quite possible to implement it at the current technical level with a reasonable price. It is quite possible to place this to the north of the NSR, where there is no one in the air. Against low-flying KR, you can use a polymer network on aerostats, and so that no one quickly knocks down the balloons, you can use a design in the style of a cloud of cones with helium inside. KR have fuel restrictions, so not the entire northern coast can be blocked. This is what I see from my couch as a solution to the problem of a promising attack across the North Pole.
  • Maksim_ok
    Maksim_ok 15 September 2020 23: 01 New
    0
    "On the other hand, it can be assumed that laser weapons, deeply integrated into the design of aircraft, will have significantly greater capabilities compared to container versions."

    - the assumption is not correct. The only positive and indisputable advantage of the "built-in" laser weapon is that it will not increase the carrier's signature. And in all other respects it is easier to do it in a container version. An example of the success of suspended reconnaissance sighting containers is proof of this.
  • shonsu
    shonsu 21 September 2020 11: 54 New
    0
    Interesting article except for the incomprehensible last paragraph. The Pak-dp is planned to replace the MiG-31, it is a high-altitude and, presumably, a hypersonic long-range intercept fighter. UAV "Okhotnik" most likely will not even be supersonic. How can they work together?