Military Review

Ex-President of Poland: If you insist on Lukashenko's resignation, pro-Russian forces may come to power in Belarus

124

Former President of Poland Alexander Kwasniewski made a statement regarding the situation in Belarus, which is being actively discussed not only in Poland, but also abroad.


According to the former head of the Polish state, the problem for Belarus today is that the protestors for the resignation of Alexander Lukashenko have no leader. Kwasniewski notes that there is no leader in Belarus at all, whom the people could follow for Lukashenka's resignation and after such a (possible) resignation.

The ex-president of Poland actually warned the current authorities of Poland and other Western countries against frank statements in favor of removing Lukashenko from the presidency. At the same time, Kwasniewski's argumentation is curious. In his opinion, the West's ignorance of the processes taking place in Belarus today can contribute to the coming to power of an openly pro-Russian politician with all the consequences for Europe.

In fact, Kwasniewski makes it clear that Lukashenka is not so pro-Russian as he is considered in the West.

Kwasniewski notes that the events in Belarus cannot be compared with the Ukrainian “orange” revolution of 2004 (by the way, then Kwasniewski took an active part in it). According to Kwasniewski, then he was well acquainted with the leaders of the opposition in Ukraine, and with the situation in the country, and therefore "acted in a field known to himself." Today, as Kwasniewski says, President Duda is faced with the fact that any intervention could lead to the victory of the pro-Russian forces, since Poland's policy towards Belarus "has been relatively passive for a long time."

Kwasniewski is frank that the Ukrainian Maidan won because of external interference:

It is impossible to repeat the Maidan of 2004 in Ukraine in Belarus, since we have neither time nor suitable assets.
Photos used:
Facebook / Alexander Kwasniewski
124 comments
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  1. Theodore
    Theodore 18 August 2020 15: 57
    14
    And so you wanted to be prodigal? From moz to moz?
    1. Constanty
      Constanty 18 August 2020 16: 06
      19
      I got the impression that Yanukovych's pro-Russian Ukraine was a friendlier and safer country for Poland than today's Ukraine.
      It was a big mistake to interfere in the internal affairs of other countries - even their neighbors.

      And Kwasniewski probably understood this and knows that the next "Maidan" will be an even greater mistake and a threat to Poland.
      1. newcomer
        newcomer 18 August 2020 16: 10
        0
        Well no. It's just that it's not right. At the moment, Ukraine is completely on the leash of Poland.
        1. Tatyana
          Tatyana 18 August 2020 16: 19
          +9
          Well, at least one half-headed politician in the West was found and realistically understands what is what about Lukashenka!
          Indeed, by flirting with the West against Russia, Lukashenka has discredited himself to Russia like Janus with a double face.
          1. The black
            The black 18 August 2020 16: 28
            20
            Lviv bus builders send hearty greetings to Belaz workers. Send greetings from Polish plantations. LAZ is already overgrown with weeds laughing
            1. The comment was deleted.
              1. The Little Humpbacked Horse
                The Little Humpbacked Horse 18 August 2020 16: 45
                +1
                Quote: Temples
                Somehow tired of these Belarusians staggering through the streets.
                They themselves do not know what they want.
                Let's get together and the business is over.


                What makes you think that the Belarusians want some kind of union, I will tell you a secret, no matter what they write here on the site, they are against any kind of union with Russia.
                1. Egoza
                  Egoza 18 August 2020 17: 12
                  +7
                  Quote: Humpbacked Horse
                  , whatever they write here on the site, they are against any unification with Russia.

                  They are not against unification, but against the Russian oligarchs!
                  1. The Little Humpbacked Horse
                    The Little Humpbacked Horse 18 August 2020 17: 21
                    -3
                    Quote: Egoza
                    They are not against unification, but against the Russian oligarchs!

                    That again the old song about Russian oligarchs, you are not tired of it yet, you Belarusians seem to think that we are Russians for fools
                    1. Captain Nemo
                      Captain Nemo 18 August 2020 18: 38
                      +3
                      That's for sure, Russian oligarchs do not exist. Other oligarchs rule in the Russian Federation, see the lists of managers and shareholders of the largest Russian corporations. The Russian Federation is a paradise for the Lyagars (a linear scale of taxes, the people do not choose judges - although, according to the constitution, they are an "independent branch of power" and should receive powers in elections, etc. etc. Lukashenko perfectly sees whose power in the Russian Federation. Soviet, Belarusians would have long ago become part of the Soviet RF.
                      1. Sergej1972
                        Sergej1972 18 August 2020 19: 31
                        +3
                        You know, in the overwhelming majority of countries of the world, including Western democracies, judges are not elected by the population. And if where they are elected, then only at the grassroots level, an analogue of our district courts.
                      2. Captain Nemo
                        Captain Nemo 18 August 2020 20: 40
                        -3
                        So Lukashenko sees that the Russian Federation is an oligarchic state. There is no tsar or people's judges over the oligarchs in the Russian Federation. Bourgeois paradise, everything is bought and sold. Man is a wolf to man. And Grigorievich Belarus is not eager to be devoured through the union to give.
                2. Sergey M. Karasev
                  Sergey M. Karasev 18 August 2020 18: 36
                  +4
                  They are not against unification, but against the Russian oligarchs!

                  And what, in fact, is so terrible about Russian oligarchs? Will they get the Belarusian economy for nothing? They will have to buy the same MAZ, BelAZ, MTZ. So the price can be worthy. The oligarchs will either be stingy to give that kind of money, or their factories will work as before in order to recoup the purchase costs and make a profit. And to increase profits, it would be nice to modernize them, expand the model range, etc. The preservation of the social network can be negotiated without fail in the terms of the sales contract.
                  The only thing is that privatization will need to be watched in both eyes, cruelly knocking on the paws for attempts to use corruption schemes, taking into account the mistakes of our privatization of the 90s.
                  PySy: The departure of Belarus to the West will simply kill the economy and that's it ... And here you need to turn to the experience of the Baltic states, Ukraine, Moldova. There are many instructive things on the topic of how not to do it.
                  1. Captain Nemo
                    Captain Nemo 18 August 2020 20: 45
                    -1
                    The oligarchs of the Russian Federation are oligarchs because honest purchase of factories is not about them. There will be a bloody torn. People, they are different. Conscience with honor and oligarchs are incompatible. And you judge them by yourself.)))
                    1. Brturin
                      Brturin 18 August 2020 23: 13
                      +1
                      Russian oligarchs are ... not allowed
                      On June 26, MTZ was visited by Prime Minister Golovchenko. He said that “the task is to actually completely make a new plant” ... “one of the conditions of the plant is that they must come with their own money so that it does not fall on the budget” ... Russia remains the main export market for Belarusian tractors. For 4 months of 2020, 70,8% of the total volume was delivered there - 11,5 thousand pieces.
                      https://banki24.by/news/4249-prodadut-li-minskiy-traktornyy
                      Whom are we waiting for "with our money" ??? given the instability in relations with Russia ...
                    2. ZAV69
                      ZAV69 19 August 2020 08: 54
                      -1
                      Quote: Captain Nemo
                      There will be a bloody torn.

                      GAZ, UralAZ, YaMZ work like bees, new models come out regularly. And this is by the way the property of Deripaska. Where is the rezderbahn then? KAMAZ, VAZ are not half Russian, even more than half. They work in full.
                      Manuals from the 90s need to be updated
                    3. Captain Nemo
                      Captain Nemo 20 August 2020 02: 06
                      +1
                      You seem to have slept in the 90s in a warm place ...) As for the manuals - I work with machines. In our team, manuals will be taken into hands only if there is soft paper for the meeting room ... Go to the VAZ - talk to the hard workers, you will learn a lot about razderban.
                    4. ZAV69
                      ZAV69 20 August 2020 07: 46
                      -1
                      WHA works. True, this is no longer a VAZ, but a Renault-Nissan. But it works. And razderban is when, like on Zila, even the foundations are gone
        2. Campanella
          Campanella 18 August 2020 17: 09
          -2
          How what? For everything good, against everything bad!)))
          1. Gargantua
            Gargantua 18 August 2020 17: 33
            -5
            Quote: Campanella
            How what? For everything good, against everything bad!)))

            That her, they want their edible Russia and their Wrotenbergs with zeroed. It’s even surprising that they didn’t fled to the West earlier.
        3. Gargantua
          Gargantua 18 August 2020 17: 31
          -7
          Quote: Temples
          They themselves do not know what they want.

          It's just not your business. Plant your potatoes and watch the nightingale droppings further. And if you want laughing
        4. dorz
          dorz 18 August 2020 19: 42
          +3
          Kwasniewski makes it clear that Lukashenka is not so prophetic as he is considered in the West.

          Lukashenka is a Russophobe and a Westernizer, he is considered pro-Russian by dicks.
      2. Avior
        Avior 18 August 2020 16: 46
        -9
        LAZ was ruined under Yanukovych, so they send it right, it turns out.
        1. newcomer
          newcomer 18 August 2020 16: 52
          +6
          Just under Yanukovych, under the patronage of Azarov, the LAZ was pulled out of the other world, not for long, as it turned out.
          1. Avior
            Avior 18 August 2020 16: 59
            -8
            In 2013, there were 300 people left to work there.
            There was nothing to pull off
            LAZ was destroyed under Yanukovych.
            1. newcomer
              newcomer 18 August 2020 17: 02
              +4
              Listen, maybe that's enough? A new design was developed for a new line of buses, a conveyor was launched. Although later the orange took over the whole story. Then the whole production was turned down.
              1. Avior
                Avior 18 August 2020 19: 22
                -2
                Enough, of course. Let's just stick to the facts.
                I do not know what was appropriated there and which orange ones (are you talking about Yushchenko?), What kind of history, I just looked at what and how and when happened there
                ... At the end of October 2011, the total number of employees of the plant was over 1200 people. In total, the plant produced 2011 buses in 97

                ... On February 12, 2013, LAZ stopped work and sent employees on unpaid leave (at that time, the company employed 300 people)

                ... On February 28, 2013, 74 deputies of the Lviv City Council signed an appeal to the government of Ukraine, the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine and the General Prosecutor's Office of Ukraine demanding the nationalization of LAZ in connection with the illegal nature of the privatization of the plant

                ... On March 12, 2013, the owners of the plant announced the termination of the production of buses at LAZ (in connection with the decision to transfer it to Dneprodzerzhinsk

                ... In September 2014, LAZ practically stopped production again, the question was raised of closing the plant due to the lack of demand for the plant's products in the domestic market of Ukraine, the absence of export orders and the presence of arrears for the already completed deliveries of public transport to the cities of Ukraine under the state order. In October 2014, LAZ finally stopped production

                I cannot give here the whole history of the plant, it is with turns and turns and different, ups and downs, I gave the key stages of the termination of its work, in my opinion.
                All this happened under Yanukovych.
                Let me remind you that the Maidan in Ukraine started after that.
                hi
                1. newcomer
                  newcomer 18 August 2020 20: 59
                  -2
                  With all these clippings and dates you only confirmed what I said.
                2. Avior
                  Avior 18 August 2020 21: 17
                  0
                  Under Yanukovych, the plant completely ceased operations, before it worked.
                  If this was your statement, then yes, I confirmed it.
                  hi
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. Goblin_1974
      Goblin_1974 19 August 2020 08: 25
      -2
      Employees of the Jelgava Sugar Factory and their colleagues from Liepaja proudly welcome newcomers from the beds of England! ...
  2. Elysium
    Elysium 18 August 2020 17: 43
    +3
    Quote: Tatiana
    Well, at least one uncouth politician in the West was found

    But in fact, the more they run into the mustache, the more he looks back at Moscow. And since there is no real successor in Belarus that suits Russia now, the EBN option is possible, when he himself left and left behind a GDP. And someone from Russia may be found to play the role of a local GDP. Or someone from the Belarusian security forces who will adhere to the pro-Russian course.
    Just a guess.
    1. businessv
      businessv 18 August 2020 18: 48
      0
      Quote: Elysium
      And someone from Russia may be found to play the role of a local GDP.
      Can not! This is definitely excluded due to the very different views of the officials of the Republic of Belarus and the Russian Federation on the state order, if there is a fruit undesirable to the citizens of the Republic of Belarus, then there will be such a storm that the world will not end!
  3. The comment was deleted.
  • Insurgent
    Insurgent 18 August 2020 16: 13
    +7
    Ex-President of Poland: If you insist on Lukashenko's resignation, pro-Russian forces may come to power in Belarus

    What are you going to do? request Wherever you throw, everywhere you EDGE.

    And along the way, you guys, Poles-Lithuanians and others like them, fell into a pitchfork ... Even if But Father leaves, at least he remains, all one course of White Russia will become more pro-Russian ...

    As if not even as part of one state repeat .
    1. Constanty
      Constanty 18 August 2020 16: 26
      18
      I just think that Belarusians should be able to solve their problems without interference and "help" from the West.

      And I write this as a Pole who is very sympathetic to Belarus (and Russia).
      1. The comment was deleted.
  • Odysseus
    Odysseus 18 August 2020 16: 18
    +6
    Quote: Constanty
    I got the impression that Yanukovych's pro-Russian Ukraine was a friendlier and safer country for Poland than today's Ukraine.

    This is just your impression. Maidan has become heavenly manna for Poland. They are one of the main beneficiaries, with more than 5 million people receiving cheap labor alone. Moreover, the slave force is obedient and strives to become Poles itself. All migrant workers from "Ukrainian nationalists and patriots" send their children to study in Polish schools and there they quickly become pollinated. So they also solved their demographic problems at the same time.
    And this is just one of the many advantages.
    1. Constanty
      Constanty 18 August 2020 16: 23
      +6
      The absence of the "Maidan" should not have meant the impossibility of employing Ukrainians in Poland - despite the Maidan, Ukraine is neither in the EU nor in the Schengen zone, and workers are leaving.
      I believe it would be that way anyway
      1. newcomer
        newcomer 18 August 2020 16: 35
        +3
        Alas, colleague. Without the Maidan, there would be no quotas for goods, no quotas for labor. If you remember, under Kuchma, then under Yanukovych there was an interstate agreement on the free mutual movement of citizens of two countries living (registered / registered) in the border zone, where specific territories were indicated. Others_ visa regime.
        1. Constanty
          Constanty 18 August 2020 16: 39
          +2
          You are right - it was. However, this does not mean that this situation will last forever.
          Maidan undoubtedly accelerated this process, but, in my opinion, at too high a cost - for Ukrainians - the destruction and disintegration of the state - and sometime in the future for the Poles - unfortunately, because of my family history, I am very distrustful of the Probander Ukraine.
          1. newcomer
            newcomer 18 August 2020 16: 46
            +3
            That's right, at a super dear price. But if Yanukovych hadn't been scared, to put it mildly, neither the association nor these quotas would be needed. Trade with the CIS plus gas transit, all the factories were working ... Let these "heroes" of the factory workers look at their Ukrainian colleagues: Belarus will fall _ the same fate awaits them.
        2. Avior
          Avior 18 August 2020 16: 53
          +4
          It was Yanukovych who was pushing for the introduction of a visa-free regime.
          ... At the Ukraine-EU summit in Brussels, an Action Plan for the introduction of a visa-free regime was presented. It consisted of 60 points and envisaged either the adoption of new laws, or the modernization of existing ones in 15 areas, as well as the development of seven national strategies.

          In April 2011, President Yanukovych approved the National Strategy for the Implementation of the Action Plan for Visa Liberalization.
          1. newcomer
            newcomer 18 August 2020 16: 59
            +1
            Visa-free could not be a priori with the EU. What he "thought" to himself under the lulling of the West _ his problems.
            1. The comment was deleted.
      2. Odysseus
        Odysseus 18 August 2020 16: 42
        +4
        Quote: Constanty
        The absence of the "Maidan" should not have meant the impossibility of employing Ukrainians in Poland - despite the Maidan, Ukraine is neither in the EU nor in the Schengen zone, and workers are leaving.

        Maidan has eliminated jobs in Ukraine itself and severed relations with Russia. The Association Agreement with the EU only facilitated the exodus to the West.
        The poor Ukrainians simply have no choice, and now they are ready for any job and any conditions. For them it is a tragedy, but for Poland (and other countries of Eastern Europe) it is good.
        Actually, you can compare the flows of migrants before 2014 and after it. Everything is very clear.
  • beeper
    beeper 18 August 2020 16: 48
    +3
    hi Konstantin, the word "Yanukovych's pro-Russian Ukraine" should be put in quotation marks, since the "uncontested European integrator" Yanukovych was a latent Russophobe and a zapadoid, in his affairs, exactly the same as the allegedly "pro-Russian" Lukashenko - both of them, quietly, for " fraternal "multi-billion dollar subsidies of the Russian Federation, dragged to the West, away from Russia, their" independent countries "with a predominantly pro-Russian, in many respects Russian, population !!!
    Kwasnevsky, probably, understood his mistake in 2014, after all, do not interfere, with and his active participation, wild Maydauns for the "refined" Jews of Mazepa, Presa Yanukovych and his Prime Minister Azarov, Ukraine, without noise and dust, as a whole, with the Crimea and Donbass, would have long been drawn into the "Euroassociation" and NATO members, and the 6th US Fleet would be based in Sevastopol!
    Yanukovych and Azarov were the best and most consistent zapadoids, outstanding Judomazepines, but the fabulous "bovdur" Amero Ambassador Jeffrey Payette decided to curry favor with the State Department as soon as possible and stupidly gave the go-ahead for the "Euromaidan" in Kiev and the "Panda Get '", and the American colonizers themselves were left without Crimea (which by this year, for sure, would have been "blown up" in terrorist attacks, the entire Russian Caucasus would have been "set on fire"!)!
    The same is happening in Belarus-AHL and his retinue have long been Russophobic and anti-Russian acting and behaving, more and more pulling the "square" RB to the West!
    If it were not for this malacholny "dead fish" - "pumped" by the Lithuanians "Sveta11%" and other "oppositioners" - marginal Maydauns from under the "claiming regional status" of Poland and Lithuania, then Lukashenko with Makei and his associates, "quietly", lulling the Kremlin "strategists" with their assurances of "alliance" and "sucking" money from the Russian Federation, they would soon have safely surrendered Belarus, with its entire population, into slavery to the fascinating "hegemons", and then the Americans "Sasha 81% "how-thread" they thanked, "maybe not even with a" scarf around the neck "like Berezovsky, but like Mishka Mechenyogo - he would live" cheese in oil "abroad and periodically push the owners of his bank assets -" teach "from there, meanly loyal to them fellow citizens, "how can we equip Belarus" ?!
    And now, with their stupid "whitemaidan" and zapoloshnye "calls to the Kremlin" frightened "father", they, volens-nolens, "woke up Vladimir Putin" and now he will have to "do something about it" ?!
    And in a "stalemate" situation (for example, such as was at the beginning of 2014 with the Russian Black Sea Fleet naval base in Crimea) "the Russian leader is unpredictable and may even go against the submissive Western" mood "of his" inner circle "- to surprise everyone with non-trivial moves and decisions ?? ! winked
    1. vitvit123
      vitvit123 18 August 2020 17: 15
      +2
      I absolutely and always agree with you with regard to Belarus! For other questions, I did not read your comments ..
  • svp67
    svp67 18 August 2020 17: 12
    +3
    Quote: Constanty
    I got the impression that Yanukovych's pro-Russian Ukraine

    Yes, it was not "pro-Russian", it was more "Russian", but not "pro-Russian"
    1. stalkerwalker
      stalkerwalker 18 August 2020 17: 34
      +3
      Quote: svp67
      Yes, she was not "pro-Russian", more "Russian" yes, but not "pro-Russian

      Back in 2010, Ukrainian political scientists explained Yanukovych's pro-Russian character by his love of sawing Russian money.
      At the same time, Janek did not cancel a single "pro-Bandera" decree issued by Yushchenko on equalizing the rights of veterans of the Great Patriotic War and the former bandit of the UPA and UNA-UNSO. What immediately resulted in an open attack by the Nazis on the veterans celebrating Victory Day in Lviv on May 9, 2010.
      Lukashenka did not come to the recognition of the "forest brothers" as heroes. But May 9 "celebrates" by itself. And he looks at the fraternization of local nationalists with colleagues from Banderostan, if not kindly, then calmly. Although the ban on St. George's ribbons in Belarus looks more than strange.
      It seems that Kwasniewski knows more than he says.
      1. svp67
        svp67 18 August 2020 17: 36
        +2
        Quote: stalkerwalker
        Back in 2010, Ukrainian political scientists explained Yanukovych's pro-Russian character by his love of sawing Russian money.

        And also "throw the bone" to those people who voted for him ...
        1. beeper
          beeper 18 August 2020 19: 41
          -1
          Quote: svp67
          Quote: stalkerwalker
          Back in 2010, Ukrainian political scientists explained Yanukovych's pro-Russian character by his love of sawing Russian money.

          And also "throw the bone" to those people who voted for him ...

          If only Yanyk would "throw the bone" to those people, us, the majority of the working population of Ukraine, who voted for him!
          And then he, right from the "inauguration" threshold, vilely "threw" us, like a golimy "sleeper"! And with his "regional" Caudle, he began to grovel like a lackey to the evil Western minority, which always voted against him and hated all of us! request
  • The comment was deleted.
    1. Voyager
      Voyager 18 August 2020 16: 21
      +1
      Maybe I will upset you, but for the most part all their politicians are just not stupid. Quite the opposite, unfortunately. They just say what is beneficial to them.
  • iouris
    iouris 18 August 2020 20: 43
    0
    What forces are there now?
  • saigon
    saigon 20 August 2020 12: 56
    0
    And the Pole is not 888 who understands who is the most about the Russian in Belarus and from the realization of this he is afraid.
    The command of the army is who in Belarus is the most pro-Russian-minded.
  • Trapp1st
    Trapp1st 18 August 2020 16: 02
    +7
    In fact, Kwasniewski makes it clear that Lukashenka is not so pro-Russian
    It is interesting when this humble thought will visit the heads of those in power.
  • Lannan Shi
    Lannan Shi 18 August 2020 16: 05
    10
    In fact, Kwasniewski makes it clear that Lukashenka is not so pro-Russian as he is considered in the West.

    Ugums. Not so pro-Russian, not so pro-Polish, not so pro-American or pro-Somali there. Lukashenka is strictly pro-Lukashenka. All the rest for Pan are suckers who need to be cut, cut, and cut again.
    1. businessv
      businessv 18 August 2020 16: 11
      +1
      Quote: Lannan Shi
      All the rest for Pan are suckers who need to be cut, cut, and cut again.
      Sheep are sheared, suckers are bred! Learn materiel! hi
      1. The comment was deleted.
  • vvvjak
    vvvjak 18 August 2020 16: 08
    +2
    But we are gathering (voluntarily forcibly) a rally for Lukashenka. And (do not believe it) they are going to distribute livers for free. Oh circus.
    1. Pereira
      Pereira 18 August 2020 16: 10
      +1
      If it really happens and if you publish a photo, then it would be better if Lukashenka castrated himself.
      1. Trapp1st
        Trapp1st 18 August 2020 16: 13
        -1
        If it really will
        You mean the liver or about the rally, if about the rally, then in Russia it is normal practice to collect voluntarily forcibly for edro or BB.
        1. Pereira
          Pereira 18 August 2020 16: 21
          +2
          I'm talking about a rally for cookies.
          1. U-58
            U-58 18 August 2020 16: 52
            0
            Drop you!
            At the rally, people will be fed. What should I take from them for feeding?
            1. Pereira
              Pereira 18 August 2020 17: 47
              -1
              Not money. If only money! Souls !!
      2. vvvjak
        vvvjak 18 August 2020 16: 15
        +3
        Quote: Pereira
        If it really will be and if you publish a photo

        It will start only at 18.00. A familiar teacher sheds tears, the conditions are harsh - if you don't go, we'll fire you. And she only after graduation and another 2 years of compulsory work. If you get fired you will have to pay money for 5 years of study.
        1. Trapp1st
          Trapp1st 18 August 2020 16: 18
          +3
          A familiar teacher is shedding tears, the conditions are tough - if you don't go, we'll fire you.
          She sheds tears about something, the state employees have such a fate, they can create more problems if a corresponding request comes from the police. So let it go and not steamed.
          1. vvvjak
            vvvjak 18 August 2020 16: 30
            +2
            Quote: Trapp1st
            She sheds tears about something,

            Yes, there is a reason. Voluntarily forcibly set public employees against protesters. Thus, splitting society. When a rally for Lukashenka was being assembled in Minsk, a doctor with an "alarming suitcase" was ordered to be in every group from the district. Like what if they start beating, but so far it has been peaceful, only booed.
            1. Trapp1st
              Trapp1st 18 August 2020 16: 48
              +1
              Voluntarily forcibly set public employees against protesters.
              It's one thing to come to check in, it's another to get into a fight.
              Like what if they start beating, but so far it has been peaceful, only booed.
              Who was booed, rally? Well, maybe the event deserves it. And why touch people, people are forcibly driven away.
              1. vvvjak
                vvvjak 18 August 2020 16: 57
                -4
                Quote: Trapp1st
                It's one thing to come to check in, it's another to get into a fight.

                It does not work out, the ideology departments there send out detailed instructions, how many flags, how many chants, etc.
                Quote: Trapp1st
                who was booed, rally? Well, maybe the event deserves it. And why touch people, people are forcibly driven away.

                Are you aware of the situation in Belarus? The streets are full of people protesting against the government. Now people are being rounded up to rallies for power. And the situation is quite explosive. If riots break out (in the extreme case, they can be provoked), then the end of peaceful protests. Tanks on the streets and emergency and curfew. In response, partisan actions. Already now, police chiefs are ordering their employees not to come to work in personal cars.
                The Belarusians do not need war for sure.
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                3. dali
                  dali 18 August 2020 17: 51
                  -1
                  This is already enough to understand who is who !!!
                  1. vvvjak
                    vvvjak 18 August 2020 18: 08
                    +1
                    I'm on the Internet from the phone. Who programmed this nonsense? This is the first time I see.
                    1. Odysseus
                      Odysseus 18 August 2020 20: 15
                      +1
                      Quote: vvvjak
                      I'm on the Internet from the phone. Who programmed this nonsense? This is the first time I see.

                      This is the trouble. What do you "see for the first time". This is a common problem in all paternalistic societies - people become like children. They do not believe in bad things, do not see the dangers, and so on. But when after 1988 we faced this dozens of times, one could learn from other people's mistakes!
                      This is a joint program of the Belarusian opposition "Reanimation package of reforms for Belarus". True, Lukashenka is also good. He just started talking about what the opposition actually wants. And zmagars, of course, instantly demolished the site, now the program is only in the cache.
                      1. The comment was deleted.
                      2. Odysseus
                        Odysseus 18 August 2020 21: 55
                        -1
                        Quote: vvvjak
                        What programs, what opposition platform, especially the joint one? What are you talking about? Drop your templates. People don't want Lukashenka, that's all.

                        This is childhood. I don’t want this toy, I want another from my neighbor. She's prettier.
                        Indeed, such programs, why bother to think, read, you have to vote with your heart. And of course the protests are organized by themselves and the Protestants are the main people in the universe. As they sent all the opposition, so they went. Everything, of course, will be as fair as the Protestants want.
                        And as for what program, in particular, this is the program of Ms. Tikhanovskaya who will be your president if the "great Protestants who do not want Lukashenka" win. Have you ever heard Protestants about this?
                        Only in her case, the situation is further aggravated by the lack of determination and lustration of the state apparatus before the new "correct" elections are held.
                      3. vvvjak
                        vvvjak 18 August 2020 22: 24
                        +2
                        I do not want to be a toy in the hands of an inadequate person. This is what the protesters are trying to say. To understand the real situation, I can use a life joke that a citizen of Afghanistan told me a couple of years ago, he has been living in Belarus for a long time. "Lukashenko sent his guardsmen to gather the male population of the country. And now he speaks to them. I will have you all with special cruelty. In response, silence. I will have you in a particularly perverted form. And then suddenly a hand rises from the crowd. Lukashenko thinks well. is there really another man in Belarus besides me. A stunted little man comes out and says. Alexander Grigorievich, but you can start with me, I'm late for work "
  • The comment was deleted.
  • businessv
    businessv 18 August 2020 19: 56
    0
    Quote: vvvjak
    But we are gathering (voluntarily forcibly) a rally for Lukashenka.
    How do you personally feel about him? Do you want to voluntarily go for him, troll the fans of the West, and even express your position? Or are you also a lover of the west and lace panties? In short, what do the people want? Well, Lukashenka left, then what? Is everyone home and everyone is happy? And you will heal in a new way, without father, without state. businesses and everything else that he has managed to keep so far? Many questions, I understand, but at least a couple of basic ones please answer!
    1. vvvjak
      vvvjak 18 August 2020 20: 23
      +1
      I am sharply negative and there are a lot of objective circumstances. Moreover, my position has not changed for many years (you can see all my comments on VO). The people want him to leave and that's it. Further new elections and let people really determine the further future. In this situation, the authorities of the Russian Federation need to react promptly to advance their interests. It is necessary to objectively understand that Lukashenka is not a friend or a "dad" to you and not to us. He simply holds power at any cost, and people, in his opinion, are sheep and citizens of the Russian Federation as well.
      1. Alexga
        Alexga 18 August 2020 20: 49
        0
        Are you not tired of speaking for the whole nation? I and the people around me think differently. And such people are 80% against your 20%. So with the new elections, alas, you are in flight.
        1. vvvjak
          vvvjak 18 August 2020 21: 46
          +2
          I don't speak for all the people. I am expressing my point of view as I see it. There is no dispute about the elections, come on. Why build up social tension? 80 percent is a serious argument, so why be afraid. Repeated elections, involving the arrested candidates, under the transparent supervision of the OSCE, China, Russia and all other interested parties. Participation of observers during the counting of votes and execution of final protocols with photo and video recording. AHL just said to it - "figvam".
          1. Alexga
            Alexga 18 August 2020 22: 01
            -1
            And do not take weakly. Blown and want to take it by your throat? It's funny. And with their Nazi flags and chants and generally smells of crime.
          2. Alexga
            Alexga 18 August 2020 22: 11
            -1
            And yet, if it's not a secret, where did you serve?
            1. ship
              ship 19 August 2020 00: 25
              +1
              Where do you serve? Start with yourself or a secret?
              1. Alexga
                Alexga 19 August 2020 09: 10
                -1
                If you are more attentive, you will notice that the question was not asked to you.
                1. ship
                  ship 19 August 2020 22: 07
                  +1
                  This is not an answer. That means a secret.
  • newcomer
    newcomer 18 August 2020 16: 08
    +2
    The most interesting thing is that it is not at all clear how it will all end. In general, no intelligible even approximate versions are visible in the expert community. The only thing I would agree with is the idea of ​​one political scientist that Belarus can only be saved by military power now. There is a grain of rationalism in this.
  • Odysseus
    Odysseus 18 August 2020 16: 10
    +3
    Kwasniewski is a former leader of the Polish Social Democrats. The principal opponent of the existing pro-American authorities in Poland. He is against a tough confrontation with Russia, and against the dismantling of the welfare state in Belarus (inevitable after the coming to power of the Belarusian opposition).
    Hence his statements, similar to those of Schroeder in Germany.
    But, alas, in essence he is wrong here, and with such a childish deception he will not deceive anyone in Poland (where they carefully work with Belarus).
    There are no pro-Russian forces in Belarus now.
    1) Lukashenka thoroughly eliminated them. This is one of his mistakes
    2) The West once again easily won the information war. The majority of the population there is generally oriented towards the West.
    3) Pro-Russian is for the existing RF. And there are no people willing to become a large Pskov-Smolensk region, or to arrange privatization under the Russian oligarchs in Belarus.
    1. Trapp1st
      Trapp1st 18 August 2020 16: 16
      +5
      to arrange privatization under the Russian oligarchs in the Republic of Belarus no one willing.
      Sooner or later, you will have to choose under whose oligarchs to carry out privatization, there is still no other way out.
      1. Odysseus
        Odysseus 18 August 2020 16: 34
        +1
        Quote: Trapp1st
        Sooner or later, you will have to choose under whose oligarchs to carry out privatization, there is still no other way out.

        I don’t think the choice between hanging and shooting a bullet in the forehead is the best choice for a person.
        But there is no choice here either. There is actually no one to choose from. All oppositionists in Belarus are radical opponents of Russia. And this is directly recorded in their programs.
        For the oligarchs of the Russian Federation, the benefit is that as a result of the opposition program, industry in Belarus will simply disappear. But they themselves cannot get anything there.
        1. The Little Humpbacked Horse
          The Little Humpbacked Horse 18 August 2020 16: 56
          0
          Quote: Odyssey
          For the oligarchs of the Russian Federation, the benefit is that as a result of the opposition program, the industry in Belarus will simply disappear

          And why is this a benefit only for oligarchs, these are additional jobs for Russian citizens, why should we think about a foreign state
          1. Aag
            Aag 18 August 2020 18: 25
            +3
            Quote: Humpbacked Horse
            Quote: Odyssey
            For the oligarchs of the Russian Federation, the benefit is that as a result of the opposition program, the industry in Belarus will simply disappear

            And why is this a benefit only for oligarchs, these are additional jobs for Russian citizens, why should we think about a foreign state

            "Russian" oligarchs have created many jobs, or at least have retained them on the territory of the Russian Federation? Is it in their interests that a migration policy is being pursued in which you begin to doubt Russia, or already in Central Asia, the Caucasus?
          2. Odysseus
            Odysseus 18 August 2020 22: 08
            -1
            Quote: Humpbacked Horse
            And why is this a benefit only for oligarchs, these are additional jobs for Russian citizens, why should we think about a foreign state

            Sorry, I don't even know how to react to such naivety. Primordially Russian citizens Kerimov, Usmanov, Deripaska, and other Vekselbergs and Rottenbergs do not create any "jobs". This is a group of bandits who seized the former public property and are now plundering it, as well as the subsoil and resources of Russia. As for the workers, they pay just enough so that they don't get stuck and starve to death in cold Russia.
            Withdrawing money abroad and living there. However, I think they fiercely applaud you from their yachts and mansions in London for such a touching defense of their interests.
    2. vitvit123
      vitvit123 18 August 2020 17: 25
      0
      Luka himself invented the predatory Russian oligarchs! When you stop freezing this stupidity .. there will always be a stratification in society, there will always be rich and poor, how can you not understand this ... now in Belarus there is one oligarch - a monopolist, besides a fool .. all this territorial entity is owned by the oligarch - monopolist and nothing .. in the Russian Federation the standard of living is better, it is not for nothing that the Belarusians come here to earn money, so they will benefit from the unification, but about the Russian oligarchs, these are Lukashenka's fears for the people, so that God forbid the people do not look towards the Russian Federation, after all a simple hard worker is eaten alive, even without seasoning ...
  • businessv
    businessv 18 August 2020 16: 10
    +3
    It is impossible to repeat the Maidan of 2004 in Ukraine in Belarus, since we have neither time nor suitable assets.
    Well, at least one freak has confessed that this booze was not started by the people of the Square, but by external forces! And even now she confesses that they are considering how to clean up RB to their sweaty little hands.
  • Asad
    Asad 18 August 2020 16: 15
    +1
    Well, at least honestly!
  • The comment was deleted.
  • parusnik
    parusnik 18 August 2020 16: 16
    +3
    Kwasniewski notes that there is no leader in Belarus at all, whom the people could follow for Lukashenka's resignation and after such a (possible) resignation.
    ... Hmm ... interesting ... Anarchy, for the sake of anarchy ... Then Lukashenka should have asked who the Belarusians want instead of him, who they would go after ... and not so fivti - fivti, but the majority, at least percent 70 ...
    1. your1970
      your1970 18 August 2020 17: 37
      0
      Quote: parusnik
      Kwasniewski notes that there is no leader in Belarus at all, whom the people could follow for Lukashenka's resignation and after such a (possible) resignation.
      ... Hmm ... interesting ... Anarchy, for the sake of anarchy ... Then Lukashenka should have asked who the Belarusians want instead of him, who they would go after ... and not so fivti - fivti, but the majority, at least 70 percent...

      And then what? Well, let's say the population for A.S. Shpaka( lol lol ) - what should AHL do next? Call for help? tyrit the program, which is not?
      You still do not understand - what is there NO there is no leader at all ... and there is no program ... and what will happen tomorrow if they knock down the AHL - they, in principle, do not know either ..... there is nothing uniting there ... they even don’t want panties in the EU, everlasting 404 country dream does not channel ...
      It would be all this - everything would be different
  • Elephant
    Elephant 18 August 2020 16: 18
    +1
    The Pole is clearly cunning!
  • andrew42
    andrew42 18 August 2020 16: 20
    +2
    Kwasniewski slightly trolled Rygorych, beckoned with a bone, like "what if the west doesn't want to bring down Lukashenka." Wants! Even as he wants! Already palms itch.
  • Cowbra
    Cowbra 18 August 2020 16: 27
    0
    The Maidan of 2004 in Ukraine cannot be repeated in Belarus, since we there is no time or suitable assets.

    That is, he said that, firstly, they staged a coup in Ukraine back in 2004, and secondly, without equivocation - that they climbed into Belarus, and in fact agents of influence are jumping there.
  • U-58
    U-58 18 August 2020 16: 36
    +1
    In general, the opinion of a politician of this level cannot be ignored.
    But ... the pro-Russian forces have been thoroughly cleaned up by Lukashenka himself over the past 5 years.
    On the other hand, at the moment there is no more pro-Russian politician in Belarus than Lukashenka. The events of the last 9 days, it seems to me, have noticeably changed the position of the father in relation to Russia
  • Yuriy71
    Yuriy71 18 August 2020 16: 41
    0
    In fact, everything is exactly the opposite! It's just that this Pshekovsky leader is catching up with fear in his own people and in the West! But, all smart and, at least a little familiar with the situation, people perfectly understand that. if Lukashenka leaves, power will be INSTANTLY intercepted by anti-Russian and pro-Western forces! And Poland itself will come out of his pants in order to achieve this !!!
  • Lumpen
    Lumpen 18 August 2020 16: 41
    -1
    And no one creeps in the idea that the Belarusian brothers absolutely do not care about the pro-Western, pro-Russian, pro-Chinese and other forces! They want justice, fair elections, freely express their opinions and not expect that they will be "tied" for this, human relations from the authorities !!!
    It's a pity that it doesn't always work out that way!
    1. U-58
      U-58 18 August 2020 17: 06
      -1
      "Well, they want, they want, they just feel shy to say" ©.
      I remember that in 1991, the millen wanted to live like in America. And what do we have now?
      So the Wishlist of the Belarusian people (with all my highest respect for him) are Wishlist.
      When they are implemented, dark, but very enterprising personalities will float into the arena, who will rake everything under themselves. They will declare themselves the fathers of the nation and ... it will be as it should be, as it always is.
      And the wishlist will remain so
      1. Lumpen
        Lumpen 18 August 2020 17: 11
        0
        You know, how many have not watched streams from TGC, have never seen slogans about changing the formation
        1. U-58
          U-58 18 August 2020 17: 17
          +1
          Uh-uh ... I didn't write about changing the formation. I wrote about the sudden emergence of leaders during mass popular demonstrations.
          As you can imagine, this is not the same thing ..
          Who was the theorist of new economic relations among us?
          Abalkin, Zaslavskaya, Aganbegyan.
          Who came to power?
          Burbulis, Shokhin, Chubais, Gaidar ..
          And if we heard something about Gaidar, as about the grandson of the famous writer, then no one has heard about the rest of the zablabs.
          1. Lumpen
            Lumpen 18 August 2020 17: 25
            0
            They will surely come up, the coordination council for the transfer of power is almost formed (so far 70 people)
          2. Sergej1972
            Sergej1972 18 August 2020 19: 45
            0
            Abalkin, Aganbegyan and Zaslavskaya were famous scientists in Brezhnev times.
    2. The Little Humpbacked Horse
      The Little Humpbacked Horse 18 August 2020 17: 08
      -1
      Quote: Lumpen
      They want justice, fair elections, freely express their opinions and not expect that they will be "tied" for this, human relations from the authorities !!!


      How selectively they want
      1. Lumpen
        Lumpen 18 August 2020 17: 44
        +1
        Based on your logic: - direct competitor of Belaruskali, Uralkali, so who benefits from simple Belarusians? laughing
        1. The Little Humpbacked Horse
          The Little Humpbacked Horse 18 August 2020 17: 50
          0
          Quote: Lumpen
          so who benefits from simple Belarusians?


          Now, you have already started talking about the benefits, but you wrote above about
          They want justice, fair elections, freely express their opinions and not expect that they will be "tied" for this, human relations from the authorities !!!
          1. Lumpen
            Lumpen 18 August 2020 18: 17
            +1
            I wrote somewhere in the comments that the weakening of the Republic of Belarus is beneficial not only to the West, but also to the East. So to say, "multi-vector" interested parties.
            And to strike or not to strike is everyone's personal business (as in the saying about fish and depth)
        2. Aag
          Aag 18 August 2020 18: 29
          +1
          Quote: Lumpen
          Based on your logic: - direct competitor of Belaruskali, Uralkali, so who benefits from simple Belarusians? laughing

          Olegarchy, he is like that, he does not know the boundaries ...
    3. your1970
      your1970 18 August 2020 17: 41
      +1
      Quote: Lumpen
      And no one creeps in the idea that the Belarusian brothers absolutely do not care about the pro-Western, pro-Russian, pro-Chinese and other forces! They want justice, fair elections, freely express their opinions and not expect that they will be "tied" for this, human relations from the authorities !!!
      It's a pity that it doesn't always work out that way!

      they can want anything.
      The trouble is that if these are the forces of the EU, we will be against, if the Russian Federation, then the EU will be against, if China, then the EU and the Russian Federation will be against. That is, whoever wins - this will first of all hit ordinary people.
    4. tanit
      tanit 19 August 2020 06: 57
      -1
      Namesake, but won't you tell me why the brothers - Belarusians, who want everything good, do not have the state flags of the Republic of Belarus at the rallies? Even on the ukromaydan there were Nazi and state flags.
  • Livonetc
    Livonetc 18 August 2020 16: 42
    0
    How does a retirement immediately clear up thinking?
    Late however.
    Now Lukashenka has no other road.
    Or a strong alliance with Russia or into oblivion (political, for sure, judgment in the future is extremely probable, races are inevitable, and one cannot be calm about life.)
  • Vasilenko Vladimir
    Vasilenko Vladimir 18 August 2020 16: 42
    -1
    just say that you don't give a damn about the Belarusians and the Republic of Belarus, the main thing for you is to tear off the Republic of Belarus from Russia
  • rocket757
    rocket757 18 August 2020 16: 54
    0
    .policy of Poland in relation to Belarus “for a long time was distinguished by relative passivity

    But how can the policy of OUR top and other allies, relative to the last allies be recognized ??? Do we have OWN? If NO, WHY?
    WHO WILL ANSWER FOR SUCH FAILURE ???
    ... the problem today is that those who are protesting for the resignation of Alexander Lukashenko have no leader. Kwasniewski notes that in Belarus there is no leader at all for the people to follow

    But this is really a chance, for "our wise men", to immediately tear off the sirloin, strain what they have in their heads and FIND WHO WHO CAN DO WHAT IS NECESSARY, give him carte blanche, the resources that he will require and DO NOT HINDER HIM to do what is necessary !!!
  • svp67
    svp67 18 August 2020 17: 14
    0
    Kwasniewski is frank that the Ukrainian Maidan won because of external interference:
    It is impossible to repeat the Maidan of 2004 in Ukraine in Belarus, since we have neither time nor suitable assets.
    And also "But father" does not let go through the cordon, but he lets in, just a little, hits hard ... So, there are few "willing"
  • rudolff
    rudolff 18 August 2020 17: 23
    +6
    Surprisingly, Kwasniewski said what those who live in Belarus are trying to tell here on the website and which no one stubbornly wants to hear. Lukashenko has never been pro-Russian, and during the years of his rule he has already dug if an abyss, then a decent ditch between the two peoples and at the expense of Russia. The protests in Belarus have nothing to do with the Ukrainian Maidan and have no leaders or puppeteers. Not yet. And for Russia there is now a unique chance to bring a truly pro-Russian president to power in Belarus. And it is very likely that Russia is missing this chance by clinging to Luka. Some kind of paradoxical myopia or dullness. And if not for these elections, if not for these protests, if Luca suddenly simply choked on a spoonful of soup and accidentally died? All goodbye Belarus? Will she go to the West? Rave! If it does, it will be thanks to the mediocre policy of the Kremlin.
  • georggy
    georggy 18 August 2020 17: 38
    +1
    This is who Lukashenka is hindering
  • V1er
    V1er 18 August 2020 19: 31
    0
    I even remembered, for our
  • PValery53
    PValery53 18 August 2020 20: 52
    -1
    "Ex-President of Poland: If you insist on Lukashenko's resignation, pro-Russian forces may come to power in Belarus"
    - Do you doubt what, Kwasnevsky? - Pro-Russian forces MUST come to power in Belarus. And you wanted in your wet dreams that the pro-Poles would come?
  • Alexander F.
    Alexander F. 18 August 2020 22: 28
    0
    "Give the man what he needs and he wants the comforts.
    Provide him with amenities - he will strive for luxury.
    Shower him with luxury - he will start sighing for exquisite.
    Let him get exquisite and he will crave frenzy.
    Give him whatever he wants - he will complain that he was deceived and that he received not at all what he wanted "
    Nua further the tale of the goldfish - glory to Ukraine - long live the State Department!
  • alien
    alien 18 August 2020 23: 00
    -1
    Quote: vvvjak
    What programs, what opposition platform, especially the joint one? What are you talking about?

    About it. From breaking with Russia to joining the EU and NATO - Alexander Grigorievich Lukashenko completely defeated the opposition program:
    “<…> In addition, the opposition proposes to provide broadcasting of TV channels from Latvia, Lithuania, Poland and Ukraine in Belarus. "They will broadcast to us. And the ban on broadcasting Russian TV channels in Belarus. No comment."

    In the military sphere, they propose to withdraw from the CSTO, the closure of Russian military bases on the territory of Belarus - a communications center in Vileika and a radar station near Baranovichi. At the same time, it was noted at the meeting that the corresponding objects do not even have the status of bases. “I don’t understand, but what are the military bases threatening us with? These are not even military units. There - 90% - our people work, they receive appropriate wages,” the head of state said. “Withdrawal from the CSTO… You have to understand that the danger is that we have Soviet, Russian weapons. If we withdraw from the CSTO, and with such an anti-Russian line, these weapons will turn into trash in our country within one year. "

    <…> "They do not speak openly, but a creeping prohibition of the Russian language. The concept of criminal liability for insulting the Belarusian language is being introduced. Listen, do we have such facts that we insulted our native language? It never happened." ...

    As for the language topic, the opposition also proposes to translate the army into the Belarusian language, and introduce education in the Belarusian language from kindergartens to universities by 2030. “We have decided with you, we have gone through and turned this page. We have decided how we will act in terms of the Belarusian and Russian languages. We have them state, - said the President. - We have agreed that we will not pedal this topic. Speak any language... English is not prohibited here either. Go Chinese, learn English. No, we need to stir up this language problem! "

    <…> Another point of the opposition program is the restoration of the Belarusian Autocephalous Orthodox Church as opposed to the Belarusian Exarchate of the Moscow Patriarchate. "We have always been proud that we have an interfaith world, that no one bothers anyone. Neither the Orthodox, nor the Catholics. Muslims live with us happy, Jews and so on. And it will turn out that what we have always been proud of will be rejected and disgraced, "stressed Alexander Lukashenko."
    https://www.belta.by/president/view/ot-razryva-s-rossiej-do-vhozhdenija-v-es-i-nato-lukashenko-otmechaet-polnuju-nesostojatelnost-403262-2020/

  • ship
    ship 19 August 2020 00: 47
    -1
    Quote: Alien
    They don't speak openly, but the creeping prohibition of the Russian language

    And here is the opposition. This is what Lukashenka implements. He really does one thing, he says another, blames the opposition for what it will do, and he himself is still doing it.
  • Gunter prereen
    Gunter prereen 19 August 2020 09: 52
    0
    )))))))))) Where did he find them there? All the pro-Russian forces were cleaned out by the ussaty himself, only amorphous mucus from the kitchen roosters remained.
  • 1536
    1536 19 August 2020 11: 11
    0
    When today they say that the "world socialist system" could have survived back then at the end of the XNUMXth century, the answer is clear: no! Therefore, various scoundrels, without honor and conscience, people then broke through to power in all countries, which in fact had all the signs of a socialist economy, i.e. public ownership of the means of production. And now they are in their "pond" or better to say "swamp", their hands are untied, there is no conscience or any moral principles, so they commit all kinds of crimes. Or have already done it.
    Today, August 19, it is important to remember those "former" ones, to compare them with the current ones. Someone still has the right to vote, alas.
  • Vdi73
    Vdi73 19 August 2020 11: 34
    0
    They will unite, and then teach the Poles good manners, otherwise they cannot become insolent.
  • Pavel57
    Pavel57 19 August 2020 18: 10
    0
    Time is working against the change of Lukashenka.
  • Tolik_74
    Tolik_74 20 August 2020 12: 53
    -1
    protestors for the resignation of Alexander Lukashenko have no leader
    There is, Tikhanovskaya, just a Fascist and KILLER of the bow, no longer with blue, but with black fingers, in his chair.