Military Review

Opening the curtain of secrecy: stealth helicopters in the service of the United States

61

Towards stealth



Stealth technology has firmly established itself when it comes to stealth aircraft. De facto, any modern fighter or bomber (if, of course, it is really modern) must have it. The only exceptions are strategic bombers, but this is also a forced measure in anticipation of the appearance of such machines as the B-21, or the Russian aircraft created under the program PAK YES.

What about stealthy helicopters? The USA began experiments in this direction much earlier than one might think. The first work on the stealth version of the Black Hawk probably started back in the 70s. Some elements of stealth found their embodiment on the experimental Sikorsky S-75 helicopter, which made its first flight in 1984 and was built in two units.

Opening the curtain of secrecy: stealth helicopters in the service of the United States

Composite materials were widely used in the design of the two-seater vehicle, designed, among other things, to reduce its weight: the mass of an empty helicopter was about 2900 kilograms. Despite many innovative solutions, during the test, the helicopter showed non-compliance with the Pentagon criteria. The project was closed.

The real birth of stealth helicopters was to be given by the famous RAH-66 Comanche program, aimed at creating a reconnaissance and attack helicopter of the future. The program, as we know, ended in nothing and was worth more than six billion dollars by the time it was closed.


The experience gained, however, was put into practice by the Americans. This is supported by the wreckage of the stealth version of the Sikorsky UH-60 Black Hawk, used in the elimination of "terrorist number one" (Osama bin Laden) in May 2011. One of its results is the actual declassification of the unobtrusive Black Hawk that took part in the operation. The tail section of the vehicle used by the US Special Operations Command remained intact after the crash and ended up next to the wall of the shelter.


The serial numbers found at the scene were found to be compatible with the MH-60 built in 2009. The car received stealth-shaped beams and fairing. It was also equipped with swept fins and a "dome" over the tail rotor. In general, according to experts, the success of the operation has once again confirmed the effectiveness of stealth technology. On the other hand, it is difficult to judge whether the chosen technical solutions would have been effective if the enemy had modern radar equipment.

Long road


The fact that the appearance of an unobtrusive Black Hawk is not a "spontaneous" phenomenon was once again confirmed by The Drive in its material This Is The First Photo Ever Of A Stealthy Black Hawk Helicopter. The presented photo probably features one of the prototypes (prototypes?) Of the helicopter that was used in 2011. According to the newspaper, the helicopter was allegedly photographed in the 1990s on the territory of the army's 128th brigade. aviation United States at Fort Eustis, Virginia. This brigade is part of the United States Ground Forces aviation support. Along with it, the Aviation Technology Office of the US Army is deployed. The latter is probably working on a subtle version of the Black Hawk.

The photo is undated and we have no direct information about any programs the helicopter may have been associated with. Experts believe that the Sikorsky EH-60 radio-technical reconnaissance and electronic warfare helicopter, which has a set of target equipment of the Quick Fix series, was probably used as a base for the vehicle, the elements of which we can see on the presented vehicle.

It is not entirely clear whether the helicopter is a version of the EH-60A or the EH-60L. Both of these modifications received the Quick Fix system, which includes two independent stations: radio interception and direction finding AN / ALQ-151 and electronic jamming AN / TLQ-27. The equipment of the complex is located in the cargo compartment of the helicopter, and its antennas were mounted on the tail boom and under the fuselage. The EH-60A was equipped with the AN / ALQ-151 (V) 2 Quick Fix II system, and the EH-60L received a more functional AN / ALQ-151 (V) 3 Advanced Quick Fix system.


It can also be concluded from the photo that the stealth helicopter received at least two missile warning sensors: one on each side of the nose under the main cockpit doors. They can be part of the AN / ALQ-156A missile approach warning system installed on the EH-60A and EH-60L. The helicopter also has two small wings, each equipped with one attachment point.

The relationship with the car used in the elimination of Osama bin Laden is conditional. So, for example, the structure of the tail rotor is very different. Obviously, in the early version of the car, the developers did not pay so much attention to its visibility. Overall, however, the helicopter has all the hallmarks of stealth technology. In addition to the general "stealth" shape of the fuselage, attention is drawn to the original design of the air intakes, designed to hide the engine elements, which traditionally increase the radar signature of the aircraft. The modified nose section bears some visual similarities to the kit Bell developed for the OH-58X Kiowa in the 1980s.


The most interesting is the thesis of The Drive that after 2011 the United States did not stop work in this direction (which is logical given the success of the operation) and the new inconspicuous versions of the Black Hawk may have even wider opportunities.

Meanwhile ...


It is hard to say if other US military helicopters will be stealthy in the future. If we talk about the well-known promising machines, then most clearly (at least at first glance) such signs are manifested in the Bell 360 Invictus, developed as part of the FARA (Future Attack Reconnaissance Aircraft) program and designed to replace the Kiowa mentioned above.

However, there are several important points here. First, Invictus is not the only contender to win the competition. In addition to him, Sikorsky Raider X remained in FARA. The latter was created on the basis of the already flown S-97. Bell 360 Invictus, we recall, exists only as a model.


Secondly (and more importantly) the new Bell helicopter will not be stealth in the usual sense of the word. Its original appearance, akin to the RAH-66 Comanche, is the result of compromises between high performance, efficiency and firepower. Reducing radar signature is an optional target for the creators of Invictus.

If we talk about other countries, such as Russia and China, then today there is no direct evidence (or we do not know of them) of active work on machines similar to the inconspicuous version of the Black Hawk or RAH-66. The concept of the Ka-58 attack helicopter, which appeared earlier on the Web, is most likely nothing more than the work of an aircraft model manufacturer. Sometimes information about the "Chinese attack helicopter of the future" emerges, but it is too early to draw concrete conclusions due to lack of data.
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  1. rocket757
    rocket757 17 August 2020 18: 13 New
    +3
    Positively. The Yankees are pushing certain topics forward a lot!
    1. NEXUS
      NEXUS 18 August 2020 00: 25 New
      -3
      Quote: rocket757
      Positively. The Yankees are pushing certain topics forward a lot!

      Especially when it comes to advertising. My father used to say that a good product does not need advertising. And he gave an illustrative example. Have you ever seen a Rolls-Royce ad in, say, the 90s or a Lamborghini ad? How about an advertisement for goods from Tiffany? Not! And why? Yes, because these products are of high quality and do not need advertising. The very quality of these products made them an advertisement, and not a hundred other stupid advertising managers on TV.
      1. Sahalinets
        Sahalinets 18 August 2020 02: 06 New
        +5
        And Rolls-Royce advertises with might and main, and Lamborghini. Maybe not on Russian TV, but nevertheless.





      2. rocket757
        rocket757 18 August 2020 06: 28 New
        0
        Advertising is and will be, it is now an inevitable "evil".
    2. MMX
      MMX 19 August 2020 17: 13 New
      +1
      Quote: rocket757
      Positively. The Yankees are pushing certain topics forward a lot!


      In aviation, they have always (with a few exceptions) been number one.
  2. Undecim
    Undecim 17 August 2020 18: 26 New
    +9
    Some elements of stealth found their embodiment on the experimental Sikorsky S-75 helicopter, which made its first flight in 1984 and was built in two units.
    The Advanced Composite Airframe Program (ACAP) did not provide any elements of stealth. The task was to test the possibility of building a helicopter fuselage entirely of composites. In addition to the Sikorsky S-75, the Bell D292 participated in the program.
  3. Operator
    Operator 17 August 2020 18: 30 New
    +5
    Until the stealth rotor is invented, all jumps and tricks with a decrease in the radar signature of the rest of the helicopter will be a cut of the budget. Now the RCS of a helicopter is determined exclusively by the rotor sweep area (taking into account the angle of view of the radar) plus the characteristic pulsations of the radar mark with the rotor blade rotation frequency.

    Another thing is the decrease in the visibility of the helicopter in the infrared spectrum (by blowing the exhaust gases of the GTE along the trailing edge of the rotor blades) and in the acoustic range (using active resonators in the gas path of the GTE, operating in antiphase). But it is precisely on such solutions that no one in the helicopter industry is working - it is much more profitable to cut the budget in the form of the development of cosmetic linings on the fuselage / tail rotor.
    1. merkava-2bet
      merkava-2bet 17 August 2020 22: 06 New
      -4
      Reducing the visibility of the helicopter in the infrared spectrum is another matter.
      Read about the RAH-66 Comanche, its IR signature is 4 times less than that of the AH-64 Apache, as well as acoustic signature. In general, the Americans are great, always pioneers in complex systems. Not in the USSR, and even more so in Russia. engaged in full stealth, I hope the Su-57 is an exception.
      1. Operator
        Operator 17 August 2020 22: 20 New
        0
        My Israeli pen pal, an experienced RAH-66, was scrapped by the customer (US Army) as it failed the rotor radar signature tests. Infrared visibility was indeed reduced due to the emission of GTE exhaust gases through the slots in the tail boom (with air suction).

        Against the background of the overwhelming superiority of the USSR / RF in the most innovative nuclear missile weapons, the achievements of the United States in the field of aircraft construction look pale laughing
        1. merkava-2bet
          merkava-2bet 17 August 2020 22: 23 New
          0
          But now the Russian Armed Forces look pale, especially the fleet, namesake.
          1. Operator
            Operator 17 August 2020 22: 35 New
            -5
            The RF Armed Forces look very much even against the background of the overwhelming advantages of our strategic nuclear forces, especially considering the rearmament with the Sarmat suborbital ICBM and the Poseidon, which has no analogues. Plus the aeroballistic Dagger, the hypersonic Zircon, the space-based (in terms of goals) Peresvet, and the Rubezh MRBM ready for service (as soon as the Americans develop, put into service and deploy their MRBMs).

            NPA "Poseidon" - this is the new look of the Russian Navy.
            1. merkava-2bet
              merkava-2bet 17 August 2020 23: 20 New
              -7
              Continue to believe in cartoons and fairy tales, as well as other lies of the General Staff of Russia.
              1. NEXUS
                NEXUS 18 August 2020 00: 19 New
                +9
                Quote: merkava-2bet
                Continue to believe in cartoons and fairy tales, as well as other lies of the General Staff of Russia.

                Well, you believed in EPR 0,000000000001m2 F-22 and F-35. fellow And without even bothering to check these data, long before the first F-35 appeared in your Air Force.
                So who believes in cartoons more?
                1. merkava-2bet
                  merkava-2bet 18 August 2020 00: 28 New
                  -7
                  We do not buy consumer goods, and your envy is understandable, you have no analogue.
                  And you haven't gone too far with zeros, the average RCS of the F-22 fighter is about 0,2-0,3 m ^ 2, which is very good for such a large apparatus.
                  1. NEXUS
                    NEXUS 18 August 2020 00: 34 New
                    +1
                    Quote: merkava-2bet
                    We do not buy consumer goods, and your envy is understandable, you have no analogue.

                    And what about the F-35? fellow How do you classify this product among the family of combat vehicles, I'm wondering?
                    Quote: merkava-2bet
                    the average RCS of the F-22 fighter is about 0,2-0,3 m ^ 2, which is very good for such a large apparatus.

                    Where did you get these numbers? The boss from Washington whispered or have seen enough American cartoons?
                    At the expense of envy ... you need to feel sorry for, not envy. They will cut you off from the Dutch Heights and you will experience the hard way of water shortage. Then we'll talk about who envies whom.
                    1. merkava-2bet
                      merkava-2bet 18 August 2020 00: 45 New
                      0
                      And what is Holland in Israel?
                      And where does water come from when it comes to aviation?
                      In Israel, almost 50% of water is extracted from the sea, and this figure is growing every year, by the way, we also sell you water purification systems and technologies, so your anger flew past about the Golan Heights.
                      Regarding the EPR data, and that you have data on the Su-57 in the public domain, it's a no brainer, top-secret information, or you don't know.
                      1. NEXUS
                        NEXUS 18 August 2020 01: 22 New
                        +1
                        Quote: merkava-2bet
                        water purification technology, so that your anger flew past about the Golan Heights.

                        Seriously past? Or maybe you are trying to sniff the crap here, telling that everything is fine with the water?
                        Yes, and minus the interlocutor, smart guy.
                        Quote: merkava-2bet
                        here and a no brainer, top secret information, or you do not know.

                        If it's secret, why are you sitting here telling me about the super-duper EPR of your hosts' pepelats? What did you Jews or mattresses of such a breakthrough in stealth technology create to sit here and tell that these planes are invisible than Chinese or ours?
                        He did not answer my questions ... and not just one. But he sits here blowing bubbles.
                      2. merkava-2bet
                        merkava-2bet 18 August 2020 01: 30 New
                        -2
                        First, where is the water, or there is nothing more to say, "smart guy".
                        Secondly, the United States already has the fourth generation of the Stealth system, moreover, it has been tested in hostilities, Russia has zero generations and is trying to give birth to the Su-57.
                        You snot yourself out of anger, like a little child.
                        And you didn't ask me questions, you just hiss on distant topics. Come more constructively, namesake.
                      3. merkava-2bet
                        merkava-2bet 18 August 2020 01: 37 New
                        -4
                        Yes, and minus the interlocutor, smart guy.
                        This interlocutor flies in the clouds and believes in different fantasies, and by the way it is he who minuses me out of anger, he has no facts and arguments. And by the way, who forbids me to minus nonsense and stupidity?
            2. Private-K
              Private-K 18 August 2020 11: 03 New
              0
              Quote: merkava-2bet
              Continue to believe in cartoons and fairy tales, as well as other lies of the General Staff of Russia.

              Well, the American military has not only believed in the "cartoons", but with might and main "express concern" (tm) and even got so excited that they resumed / forced / started-from-scratch reciprocal weapons programs. But recently they got so frightened that they REQUESTED the Russian Federation to hold joint consultations about Russian space interceptor satellites-inspectors "3 in 1 matryoshka". Apparently, the "cartoons" on the monitors of the Nasav radars show something quite offensive.
          2. Proctologist
            Proctologist 18 August 2020 00: 10 New
            +1
            very cool! But is this exactly about helicopters? ..
            1. merkava-2bet
              merkava-2bet 18 August 2020 00: 36 New
              -4
              So I don’t understand, they started for health and now for peace. When there is nothing to show or just talk, they move on to other topics or nationality, alas, there are a lot of sofa experts and officials who believe in the word of officials who are not very cold-hearted, urya-patriots.
        2. NEXUS
          NEXUS 18 August 2020 00: 17 New
          +2
          Quote: merkava-2bet
          But now the Russian Armed Forces look pale, especially the fleet, namesake.

          You are missing one point - Russia is a continental power and it has priority over the land forces. Look at history and pay attention to whom we have fought more often for the last 200 years. The fleet is certainly important, but ... it’s not a cheap pleasure. And so far, judging by what we are building, we can talk about strengthening the coastal zone.
          As for the ships of the surface ocean zone (distant), I think it will come to them, because if we do not scratch, the adversary will hurry us up.
        3. Okolotochny
          Okolotochny 18 August 2020 13: 57 New
          +2
          Compare and pale with Israel. tongue
          And also the nomenclature of actually manufactured military products. And compare it by quantity (names). And turn pale twice. tongue tongue
  • Undecim
    Undecim 17 August 2020 18: 48 New
    +2
    For a helicopter, especially used by the MTR, in addition to radar visibility, the noise of the propeller and engine is unmasking features.
    Therefore, in the design of the first "stealth helicopter", which the Americans created in 1972 for a secret operation to install wiretapping equipment on government telephone lines in North Vietnam, in addition to radio-absorbing coatings, special low-noise screws and mufflers were installed. As a result, even a hundred yards away, the noise of the helicopter flight was not heard.
    The modification was named Hughes 500P "The Quiet One". Two cars were manufactured.
    1. Operator
      Operator 17 August 2020 19: 10 New
      +3
      Not 100 yards, but 250 meters: at this distance, the Penetrator was noisy like a huge vacuum cleaner with a sound pressure level of 71 decibels - mainly due to the muffler on the exhaust of the gas turbine engine (with a corresponding drop in power)


      https://strangernn.livejournal.com/2104475.html
      1. Undecim
        Undecim 17 August 2020 19: 29 New
        +1
        Not 100 yards, but 250 meters
        Not 250 meters, but 200 yards. At this distance, the sound was no longer associated with a helicopter flight.
        https://archive.is/lc89.
        1. Operator
          Operator 17 August 2020 19: 37 New
          +1
          Even at 250 meters, a 300 kW "vacuum cleaner" will be perfectly audible: juggling with the phrase "will not be associated with a helicopter" is a purely advertising trick of the developer - what, in the jungles of Vietnam, such "vacuum cleaners" are found at every corner (like vacuuming a clearing)? laughing
          1. Undecim
            Undecim 17 August 2020 19: 40 New
            -1
            What is the "publicity stunt" of the secret program?
            1. Operator
              Operator 17 August 2020 19: 47 New
              +1
              And here is the secrecy - we are talking about the obviousness of the noise distance of a 300-kW "vacuum cleaner" and even with acoustics, uncharacteristic for the jungle (much more than 250 meters).
              1. Undecim
                Undecim 17 August 2020 19: 58 New
                -2
                Operator - it's fun with you, but unproductive. "Juggling with the phrase" will not be associated with a helicopter "is purely a publicity stunt by the developer" - your phrase?
                The question arises - how can you advertise a classified program?
                Although you always know everything better and deeper than anyone, therefore, you probably know the answer to this question.
                1. Operator
                  Operator 17 August 2020 21: 55 New
                  -2
                  So I gave you an internet link to a secret US Air Force document?

                  You specifically screwed up with 100 yards and didn't even apologize - the crown presses, obviously.

                  Painfully reminiscent of two brothers-acrobats: the "Romanian" Klimov and the outskirts of Timokhin, who claim to be the ultimate truth (with a serious air of admonishing the Supreme Commander, the Ministry of Defense, the General Staff of the Armed Forces and the command of the Navy), but in fact entangled in three pines - small details naval weapons.

                  Acrobats change their shoes in a jump - for example, today they extol the corvettes, which a few months ago fumbled, demanding to give them this moment frigates. Therefore, we are waiting for another article from them, demanding to immediately put into service the NPA Poseidon in an amount of at least 1000 pieces laughing
                  1. Undecim
                    Undecim 17 August 2020 22: 21 New
                    +1
                    One gets the impression that you envy the "acrobatic brothers".
                    1. Operator
                      Operator 17 August 2020 22: 25 New
                      -1
                      What do I envy - that I have repeatedly asserted the priority of corvettes over frigates in opposition to the acrobatic brothers? laughing
                      1. Undecim
                        Undecim 17 August 2020 22: 40 New
                        +1
                        What I envy
                        You know better.
                  2. Avior
                    Avior 17 August 2020 22: 44 New
                    0
                    And when did they find fault with the corvettes? I don’t remember something like that ...
                    1. Operator
                      Operator 17 August 2020 23: 01 New
                      -1
                      Dozens of times in many topics in the comments I named the only type of the largest universal ship for the modern Russian fleet - a corvette, for which I received instructive comments from brothers-acrobats of the type better than a beast than a frigate.

                      Moreover, I gave quantitative estimates of such a corvette, which coincide, lo and behold, with the Project 20380 corvette, which is praised by acrobats today - two thousand tons of displacement, a completely steel hull, a diesel power plant. Another thing is the composition of the corvette's armament, in which the commander of the mine-torpedo warhead of the nuclear submarine and the journalist float shallowly, since they are not able to formulate the tasks of the corvettes, and therefore they want to hang on them all types of naval weapons (up to SLBMs in kind laughing ).

                      PS I'm sorry. what has to be said about the acrobatics of the "Romanian" and the okrainets in this topic - in their topic I will clearly be banned by the VO administration.
                      1. Avior
                        Avior 17 August 2020 23: 10 New
                        +1
                        As far as I understand, the claims could be against the "universal ship"?
                        The corvette, of course, like other ships, is universal, but within certain limits.
                        And to 22380 they had complaints in the last article.
                      2. Operator
                        Operator 18 August 2020 00: 31 New
                        -2
                        Nevertheless, I continue to insist on the versatility of 2 thousand-ton corvettes and the uselessness of frigates, BODs, etc. - based on the current level of anti-missile, anti-aircraft, anti-submarine and anti-torpedo weapons.

                        For example, a modern multifunctional AFAR with four fixed canvases is quite capable of replacing all shipborne radars and electronic warfare equipment without exception, including for the guidance of short-range anti-aircraft missiles with passive RGSN (by means of illumination) and long-range with active RGSN (by radio command guidance radar beam in the middle section and homing in the terminal section).

                        The same applies to torpedo armament, which should include two types of torpedoes - small-caliber anti-torpedoes with a rocket engine and caliber anti-submarine torpedoes with PAD. All of them receive target designation from a single hydroacoustic complex with a sub-keel antenna sonar and a towed antenna of a sound direction finder.

                        Anti-aircraft missiles, anti-torpedoes and anti-submarine torpedoes are located in silo launchers - one long-range anti-aircraft missile and one anti-submarine torpedo, as well as eight short-range anti-aircraft missiles and eight anti-torpedoes.

                        Instead of a helicopter with a descending sonar - a small UAV with a quantum magnetometer.

                        The unification of locating equipment and launching devices will make it possible to place a sufficient number of silos in the corvette's body. Then why pay more for a frigate?
                      3. Avior
                        Avior 18 August 2020 06: 28 New
                        0
                        For seaworthiness and habitability, for example.
                        For range, autonomy, economic speed, armament reserve, fuel supply for the helicopter, its full service, ensuring the possibility of its real use.
                        Everything that is in BMZ will be redundant and a waste of money.
                        In general, the borders of frigates and corvettes are blurred by steel.
                        Formidebl - large corvette 3200 gross tons, $ 265 million a piece, or a small frigate?
                      4. Operator
                        Operator 18 August 2020 08: 15 New
                        +1
                        The modern approach to the design of floating craft provides sufficient seaworthiness / habitability for a 2-kiloton recovery ship, but the point is different - the limitation on pitching for the use of rocket-torpedo weapons (sea agitation is about 6-7 points).

                        This is especially true for anti-submarine helicopters, small UAVs with ejection launch and landing net are free of ballistic restrictions.

                        Almost all ships up to 10-kilotons have similar restrictions and a complex solution is required here - the transition to the submarine fleet (numerous low-tonnage) and the installation of PU of short-range anti-aircraft missiles and anti-torpedoes directly on the landing ships and supply vessels of larger displacement for the purpose of their self-defense.

                        Surface ships no more than corvettes are needed only for patrolling in the near and far sea zones, and even then only in areas without ice cover, which is especially relevant for the Russian Navy and requires the transition to 1-ktn nuclear submarines with GSU from Poseidon.

                        PS Ships go to the far sea zone as part of a warrant, where there are tankers and supply vessels that provide the required range and navigation autonomy.
                      5. garri-lin
                        garri-lin 18 August 2020 14: 19 New
                        -1
                        It would be more logical with this approach, as you described, two buildings. Corvette 2kt. And a frigate of 3,5-5 kt. The filling is identical. The only difference is the amount of ammunition. Well, on the corvette either there is no helicopter or there is a very small one. Type Ka 226. And the frigate is. And you have said clearly. No chewing.
                      6. Operator
                        Operator 18 August 2020 16: 07 New
                        +1
                        A helicopter is not needed - take-off / landing is limited to 4 points, aviation kerosene supply is for 2-3 flights, the search for submarines by helicopter outside the range of the ship's under-keel sonar does not make sense due to the limited travel of 533-mm torpedoes and the flight range of the Caliber anti-submarine missile-torpedoes ...

                        The USKS eight-charge launcher has a mass of 14 tons and dimensions of 9x2x4 meters, i.e. on a 2-ktn corvette with a size of 100x10x10 meters, you can install four such USKS with 32 cells for missiles and torpedoes - quite a sufficient number for naval air defense and anti-aircraft defense.
                      7. SovAr238A
                        SovAr238A 18 August 2020 17: 14 New
                        0
                        Quote: Operator
                        A helicopter is not needed - take-off / landing is limited to 4 points, aviation kerosene supply is for 2-3 flights, the search for submarines by helicopter outside the range of the ship's under-keel sonar does not make sense due to the limited travel of 533-mm torpedoes and the flight range of the Caliber anti-submarine missile-torpedoes ...

                        The USKS eight-charge launcher has a mass of 14 tons and dimensions of 9x2x4 meters, i.e. on a 2-ktn corvette with a size of 100x10x10 meters, you can install four such USKS with 32 cells for missiles and torpedoes - quite a sufficient number for naval air defense and anti-aircraft defense.



                        And besides the physical metric dimensions, what do you know about the design of ships, for example, how much you need to increase the displacement and ballast, to accommodate 4 AFAR canvases with a range of 300 km at an altitude of 30 meters ...

                        To accommodate a GAS type Polynom, weighing 780 tons - how much displacement should the carrier ship add?

                        And so in everything ...
                      8. Operator
                        Operator 18 August 2020 18: 33 New
                        0
                        Have you seen the F-35 AFAR radar? Can you imagine four units on a 2-kt ship?
                    2. garri-lin
                      garri-lin 18 August 2020 18: 05 New
                      0
                      The spinner is not PLO but just do it. This is reconnaissance and landing and search and rescue operations in peacetime and wartime. The main thing here is that the verushka is correct. It is easier to disembark the same inspection team from a helicopter than from a boat in waves.
                    3. Operator
                      Operator 18 August 2020 18: 40 New
                      0
                      In excitement, it is easier to land a helicopter landing - it is more difficult for a helicopter to take off.

                      The best landing is a shot from a 100-mm gun in front of the vessel being inspected, after which it will float to the desired quiet place where it will be possible to land a landing from the boat.

                      Again: two or three helicopter assault forces and the helicopter turn into ballast due to the depletion of the aviation kerosene stock. Plus the huge internal volume of the corvette, which is occupied by the helicopter hangar.
                    4. garri-lin
                      garri-lin 18 August 2020 19: 14 New
                      0
                      On the excitement of 4 balls, it is almost impossible to lower the boat. And the turntable is quite efficient. Inspection is one thing and the salvation of those in distress is another. And there 100 mm will not cope. The Ka 27 has a filling station of 4 tons. They are enough for 1000 km. 20 tons of fuel plus 6500 weight of the turntable. 5 thousand kilometers for 27 tons of cargo. The hangar does not occupy the internal volume, it occupies the deck area. And the roof of the hangar is equivalent to the area occupied. There are a lot of things you can do. For example PU tricks, traps and the like. WFP takes up a lot of space, I agree with that. But under it can be crew quarters, MO and much more. You can play with the layout. The helicopter has another application. In low-intensity conflicts with a weak enemy, they can serve for reconnaissance and target designation. For a frigate ka 27 is acceptable in size. With the right stuffing. A corvette needs a smaller helicopter.
                    5. Operator
                      Operator 18 August 2020 20: 47 New
                      0
                      Rescue of those in distress at sea is the business of the Coast Guard (with the help of patrol boats and coast-based helicopters) and those in distress themselves (with the help of regular rescue equipment).

                      To reduce the displacement, windage and height of the corvette metacentre, it is necessary to minimize the dimensions of towed vehicles, BUGAS launching devices and boats, UAV launching and landing devices and the composition of weapons in every possible way (limiting ourselves to USKS, a 100-mm gun mount and an autonomous mine finder), as well as to get rid of passive means of anti-aircraft and anti-submarine defense such as decoys, directors of aerosol curtains, etc. - short-range anti-aircraft missiles such as "Nails" and small-caliber anti-torpedoes - our everything.
                    6. garri-lin
                      garri-lin 18 August 2020 21: 13 New
                      0
                      The Coast Guard will not be much involved in a wartime rescue. And there will be a need for this.
                      All-round reduction of all physical parameters of the ship is certainly welcome, but you also need to know when to stop.
                      But why get rid of the interference? They almost do not take up space and weight. By the way, the hangar roof is a great place for Nails.
                    7. Operator
                      Operator 18 August 2020 21: 40 New
                      -1
                      In wartime, not only the Coast Guard, but also the corvettes will have something to do (other than rescuing those in distress).

                      "Nails" (as well as anti-torpedoes with starting solid-propellant boosters) can be placed in several tiers in standard USKS cells - up to several dozen pieces in one cell, which is an excellent solution to overloading the corvette's air defense / anti-tank equipment with the number of simultaneously attacking ammunition.

                      Interference for modern seeker missiles and torpedoes is a dead poultice, but "nails" and anti-torpedoes in the near defense zone of a corvette are a deadly tool for attacking ammunition.
                    8. garri-lin
                      garri-lin 18 August 2020 23: 39 New
                      +1
                      I will not argue. Moreover, we flood. And your very description is a ready-made concept. Laconic.
                    9. Aag
                      Aag 19 August 2020 13: 07 New
                      0
                      I was toiling with the problem of choice: what to read in the section "Armament", "Aviation", or "Fleet"? I chose "Aviation" ... And how it happened! ...))))
  • Charik
    Charik 17 August 2020 19: 52 New
    -1
    the first photo is a cool cart-futuristic
  • Petrol cutter
    Petrol cutter 17 August 2020 21: 02 New
    +2
    Interesting of course. For general development. But honestly ...
    Not really sure about the need to bother with stealth in terms of this technique. More precisely, I'm not at all sure.
    I could be wrong. I'm not an aviator after all.
    1. dauria
      dauria 17 August 2020 23: 36 New
      +3
      More precisely, I'm not at all sure.


      So do I. Vitality is the main thing. The rest of the bells and whistles just not at the expense of armor and survivability. The S-300 is not shot at the helicopter, it is not fired at by fighters from long distances. Its main enemy is in the infantry battle formations. And they will make holes for him from distances of 12 km and closer. There is no doubt that they will do it. The main thing is to return home, albeit in holes. IR stealth is needed, but no sideways to the radar.
      1. not main
        not main 18 August 2020 00: 28 New
        +1
        Quote: dauria
        More precisely, I'm not at all sure.


        So do I. Vitality is the main thing. The rest of the bells and whistles just not at the expense of armor and survivability. The S-300 is not shot at the helicopter, it is not fired at by fighters from long distances. Its main enemy is in the infantry battle formations. And they will make holes for him from distances of 12 km and closer. There is no doubt that they will do it. The main thing is to return home, albeit in holes. IR stealth is needed, but no sideways to the radar.

        The holes will be "darned", the main thing: the CREW! Alive and healthy, that means tomorrow in battle! And the holes will be darned by this time!
      2. garri-lin
        garri-lin 18 August 2020 14: 25 New
        0
        Stealth for radars is generally good. The same otS 300 radar will see the turntable from afar and simply warn where and where it is flying from. So that anyone needs to get ready in advance. Another thing is that it is almost impossible to realize this stealth. Especially for combat. If a small UAV of a helicopter scheme can still be tried to hide, then the transport and the drummer without options.
  • Pavel57
    Pavel57 18 August 2020 11: 00 New
    0
    It was necessary to remember the Ka-58.
  • Pavel57
    Pavel57 19 September 2020 13: 42 New
    0
    Quote: NEXUS
    Have you ever seen a Rolls-Royce ad in, say, the 90s?

    I saw it, but not in the Ogonyok magazine.