Military Review

The Ministry of Defense proposes to classify all information on the defense sphere

208
The Ministry of Defense proposes to classify all information on the defense sphere

All information about the defense sector that is not a state secret must be confidential and have the status of an official secret. This is the proposal made by the Ministry of Defense, the corresponding amendments are posted on the portal of legal information.


The draft law proposed by the military department should transfer all information that does not have the status of state secrets to the category of official secrets, thereby excluding the leakage of confidential data and establish responsibility for its disclosure.

The measures that are being taken in the Russian Federation to restrict access to information in the field of defense (including in relation to the state defense order), which is not classified as a state secret, do not allow limiting its dissemination in open sources. As a result, the media periodically gets official information concerning the organization of state defense, in terms of the creation of weapons and military equipment, financial condition and economic activity, etc.

- said in the explanatory note to the bill.

Thus, information of a defense nature that does not belong to state secrets should be classified as confidential and protected in the same way as family, lawyer or medical secrets. It is proposed to introduce criminal and official liability for disclosing official secrets.

According to the authors of the draft law, the information on which Russia has taken international obligations on open exchange will not be classified as an official secret. A complete list of information constituting an official secret will be approved by the country's leadership.
208 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must to register.

I have an account? Sign in

  1. 1976AG
    1976AG 14 August 2020 15: 04 New
    37
    It is high time !!!
    1. tralflot1832
      tralflot1832 14 August 2020 15: 07 New
      +7
      Only official information is the position of full name. Two hands for.
      1. Hagen
        Hagen 14 August 2020 18: 06 New
        18
        Quote: tralflot1832
        Only official information is the position of full name. Two hands for.

        Then even VO can be closed. There will be nothing to discuss ... laughing
        1. Liam
          Liam 14 August 2020 18: 18 New
          +5
          Quote: Hagen
          Quote: tralflot1832
          Only official information is the position of full name. Two hands for.

          Then even VO can be closed. There will be nothing to discuss ... laughing

          This is unlikely. Ukraine is in place, right now Belarus has already pulled up ... the Englishwoman, again, will not go anywhere, she will shit. An uncultivated field is shorter
          1. Hagen
            Hagen 14 August 2020 19: 27 New
            +3
            Quote: Liam
            .Unplowed field is shorter

            This will already be an international review.
            1. Shurik70
              Shurik70 14 August 2020 22: 10 New
              +1
              Army data is also an advertisement for that army.
              There is certainly a lot to be kept secret. But advertise something.
              Especially if information about this has already "leaked".
              For example, combat lasers. The technical details should be kept secret. But the fact itself is, on the contrary, to advertise. Also, videos should be released, as a laser shoots down a flock of kamikaze drones.
              In any business, you should limit yourself reasonably.
        2. tralflot1832
          tralflot1832 14 August 2020 18: 46 New
          +3
          And we are already discussing Indian Chinese American experts. and sometimes stotenberg
    2. Kalmar
      Kalmar 14 August 2020 15: 24 New
      52
      Quote: 1976AG
      It is high time !!!

      It seems yes, but it seems not. On the one hand: the defense industry is a delicate topic, the principle "Don't talk!" in this area is very important. On the other hand, an increase in secrecy will inevitably increase the potential for corruption: if now there is at least a general understanding of what the money is spent on, then with the classification of everything, the entire defense industry will turn into a financial black hole.
      1. K-612-O
        K-612-O 14 August 2020 15: 33 New
        -13
        Oh, don't say that. Control over the state defense order is hellish, they just suspected something or something does not grow together according to financial reporting during the check - prosecutors and the FSB are flying on the wings of the night
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov 14 August 2020 15: 59 New
          +2
          Quote: K-612-O
          Oh, don't say that. Control over the state defense order is hellish, they just suspected something or something does not grow together according to financial reporting during the check - prosecutors and the FSB are flying on the wings of the night

          So what?
          This will not help.
          Even if not a penny is stolen when Basurmanin is born, this is definitely a powerful blow to Russia's defense capability.
          1. bayard
            bayard 15 August 2020 00: 09 New
            +1
            Quote: Spade
            Even if not a penny is stolen when Basurmanin is born, this is definitely a powerful blow to Russia's defense capability.

            Are you talking about the BMP-1 with a module from the BTR-82?
            It is unlikely that this is for arming the active army, rather it is a mob. potential in case of war with a sharp deployment of new formations and to make up for losses. And also for sale abroad in conflict zones - inexpensive and almost BMP-2.
            The experience of the war in Donbass showed that the losses of BMPs will be very serious, and the losses must be replenished quickly and from the availability of storage bases.
            1. Lopatov
              Lopatov 15 August 2020 11: 38 New
              +2
              Quote: bayard
              Are you talking about the BMP-1 with a module from the BTR-82?

              Ага.

              Quote: bayard
              It is unlikely that this is for arming the active army

              Unfortunately that's the way
              1. bayard
                bayard 15 August 2020 18: 24 New
                +4
                Wow belay !
                Well ... that means we followed the same principle as with the modernization of the T-72V3 with slots in the dynamic protection - the most budgetary option for modernization ... After all, the bases and the BMP-2 are full ...
                Or "TOMORROW'S WAR"?
                Then for such preparation for this, someone should be put against the wall.
                - Aircraft AWACS - no.
                - PLO aircraft - no.
                - Combat pilots - not enough.
                - With engineering personnel ... problems.
                - Military schools under Serdyukov were closed and where a number of specialized specialists are trained ... it is not clear.
                ... The promoted Su-57s to build ... nowhere - two slipways in the corridor between the existing workshops - that's all ... and it's a joy that another 20 sq. meters were freed for shelving ...
                What's this ?
                This is SABOTAGE.
                And the assigned price (with fanfare) for one Su-57 is 37 million dollars. ... it is like the price for the IL-76MD90A, which cannot be built under the contract due to the LOST price.
                They don't build.
                And glavnyukam means - AND DO NOT!
                ... Virtual readiness ...
                And the fanfare is louder - so that the plebs do not suspect.
                Poorly .
                Very bad .
                no
                1. Lopatov
                  Lopatov 15 August 2020 19: 52 New
                  +1
                  Quote: bayard
                  Or "TOMORROW'S WAR"?

                  I'm afraid the reason is trivial money.
                  It looks like it's stupidly beneficial.
                2. frog
                  frog 17 August 2020 12: 20 New
                  +1
                  Poorly .
                  Very bad .

                  Why then? Naturally, if we consider all sorts of nonsense like the country's defense capability and the like, yes, you are right. And if from the point of view of "society is founded for the purpose of making a profit" - then everything is kosher. Profit is obtained, flows (financial) are distributed correctly, no one is offended. In a big way. If not, these peppers would still be sitting there. So all the rules.
                  If the remnants of the unfinished developers and the crumbs of technologists still survived, then it is quite a disaster with the smart hard workers. There is no need to talk about various managers at all, they have died out as a class ... Of course, if we talk about sane things wink And if about fanfare and implementation of invested funds - everything is fine love (It's a pity, there is no emoticon with a couple of carnations)))
        2. Kalmar
          Kalmar 14 August 2020 16: 05 New
          25
          Quote: K-612-O
          Oh, don't say that. Control over the state defense order is hellish, they just suspected something or something does not grow together according to financial reporting during the check - prosecutors and the FSB are flying on the wings of the night

          It seems to be so, but just recently the long-suffering corvette of the project 20380 (5/6) was discussed closely and ardently at the VO. In short:
          1. A project of the corvette BMZ 20380 is being created
          2. Barely built the lead, when suddenly appeared the "improved" project 20385 (with "Caliber"), robustly added to the price.
          3. As soon as the head 20385 was completed, they decided that it was too expensive. And (suddenly) they decided to launch an even newer 20386, which lost its "Calibers", but became even more expensive than 20385.

          And you can also find articles about developments in the field of torpedo armament and anti-torpedo protection equipment right there, on the VO: a lot of money is allocated to finance obviously outdated and ineffective developments.

          And it’s also mono to remember the older days of Comrade Serdyukov, when the army tried for a lot of money, and don’t understand what to buy at all (such as Iveco / "Lynx" armored vehicles at the price of an armored personnel carrier).

          Those. supervision works in theory, but in practice it works in very different ways.
          1. Alex777
            Alex777 14 August 2020 18: 33 New
            +2
            3. As soon as the head 20385 was completed, they decided that it was too expensive.

            Why is it expensive? Diesel German sailed. There was no other reason. hi
            1. bayard
              bayard 15 August 2020 00: 30 New
              11
              And now everything will be classified and ... the saws will work in soundproofing mode.
              A joke.
              But only with a grain of joke.
              The effectiveness of many programs raises doubts about the effectiveness and feasibility. On the other hand, there is deathly silence about areas that are critical for the country's defense - AWACS aircraft, PLO aircraft, deck-based helicopters, the absence of a sane MAPL program (neither Ash nor Husky \ Laika are such, these are classic SSGNs), nothing we don't hear about the revival of the MRA (the modernization of the Tu-22M3 does not count, there will be infinitely few of them for all fleets) ... How many copies were broken about the need to continue the construction of corvettes in order to provide anti-aircraft weapons in the near zone ...
              If everything is tightly classified, then only the intelligence of the enemy will know about the domestic weapons programs ... but not their own caring public.
              And the public will be bored. yes lol
        3. Grandfather
          Grandfather 14 August 2020 16: 16 New
          14
          Quote: K-612-O
          Oh, don't say that. Control over the GOZ is hellish,

          padstal ... wassateven from the comedies Gaidai did not laugh like that ... wassat
      2. 1976AG
        1976AG 14 August 2020 15: 39 New
        -8
        Quote: Kalmar
        Quote: 1976AG
        It is high time !!!

        It seems yes, but it seems not. On the one hand: the defense industry is a delicate topic, the principle "Don't talk!" in this area is very important. On the other hand, an increase in secrecy will inevitably increase the potential for corruption: if now there is at least a general understanding of what the money is spent on, then with the classification of everything, the entire defense industry will turn into a financial black hole.

        For regulatory authorities, nothing changes. So don't worry.
      3. Vita vko
        Vita vko 14 August 2020 16: 44 New
        +6
        Quote: Kalmar
        On the one hand: defense is a delicate topic

        And far from simple. Disinformation in the military sphere is a very important component. And if it is completely closed, its distribution will become extremely difficult, which will greatly facilitate the work of foreign special services. In addition, there is the concept of "dual-use technology" - what about them?
      4. NordUral
        NordUral 14 August 2020 21: 09 New
        +1
        It seems yes, but it seems not. On the one hand: defense is a delicate topic, the principle "Don't talk!" in this area is very important. On the other hand, an increase in secrecy will inevitably increase the potential for corruption: if now there is at least a general understanding of what the money is spent on, then with the classification of everything, the entire defense industry will turn into a financial black hole
        .
        All said, a double-edged sword. In the existing reality.
    3. Terenin
      Terenin 14 August 2020 15: 25 New
      -1
      Ministry of Defence offers classify all information on the defense sector
      They offer pies and seeds at the bazaar, and the Russian Ministry of Defense makes a decision and introduces, in accordance with the established procedure, a bill.
      1. Ross xnumx
        Ross xnumx 14 August 2020 15: 35 New
        -1
        All four (+)
        Before, not everyone knew the daily routine and menu in the dining room, but now ...
        The Chinese do not even say everything, although most of them are engaged in copy-paste ...
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov 14 August 2020 15: 50 New
          29
          Quote: ROSS 42
          Previously, not everyone knew the daily routine and menu in the dining room,

          Earlier?
          An ordinary citizen of the USSR knew much less than the intelligence agencies of a potential enemy.
          Who were you defending against?

          So it will be here ...
          You will not know anything. And the "likely partners" will be well informed. And not only they ... It is necessary to sell weapons and military equipment ...

          And it will come to the ridiculous, as it was under the USSR. When the country could be imprisoned for spreading the information that the local military uses to wipe their asses in some Egypt (a real case from a direct participant)
          1. Deck
            Deck 14 August 2020 16: 12 New
            12
            Translations of reviews of Soviet military equipment from Jane to the USSR were classified as "ДСП". Will be now - hung up a link from Soho or National interest - in jail laughing
            1. Lopatov
              Lopatov 14 August 2020 16: 24 New
              32
              Quote: Deck
              Translations of reviews of Soviet military equipment from Jane to the USSR were classified as "ДСП". Will be now - hung up a link from Soho or National interest - in jail

              By and large, you can put up with this.
              But when one Soviet engineer invents for the second time what another Soviet engineer has already developed, because the first development is classified, this is a fierce situation.

              In general, I have a strong suspicion that MO is simply trying to facilitate the process of sweeping under the rug.
              1. Alex777
                Alex777 14 August 2020 18: 40 New
                +3
                But when one Soviet engineer invents for the second time what another Soviet engineer has already developed, because the first development is classified, this is a fierce situation.

                In the USSR, there was an "Institute of Systems Engineering" to prevent this.
                At the time of EBN, it was destroyed in the first place.
                I don't know how now. The extreme attempts I know to revive a similar structure seem to have been unsuccessful. hi
              2. Doliva63
                Doliva63 14 August 2020 19: 36 New
                +6
                "In general, I have a strong suspicion that MO is simply trying to make it easier for itself to sweep under the rug."
                So it seemed to me too. But there are no mass hallucinations laughing
              3. Aag
                Aag 14 August 2020 20: 26 New
                +2
                "... when one Soviet engineer invents for the second time what another Soviet engineer has already developed, because the first development is classified ..."
                Such situations have taken place. For one of the main methods of ZGVT (protection of state and military secrets) is to limit the circle of persons admitted. IMHO, it is quite justified by the many years of experience of all kinds of special services of different states in different eras and situations. You have to pay for everything. Secrecy, - not an exception. Imagine, the same message that you are reading now, I would need to bring to you, and ONLY to you with a temporary, or guaranteed persistence. How much would this complicate the process in terms of time and (or) material equivalent?
                (For you, the question is, of course, rhetorical).
                This is me for those who are here of interest, and not just blurt out without going into the essence ...
                1. Lopatov
                  Lopatov 14 August 2020 20: 36 New
                  +5
                  Quote: AAG
                  quite justified by the many years of experience of all kinds of special services of different states in different eras and situations

                  About "justified" ... Controversial.
                  It just seems that the secrecy is definitely good.

                  Remember the Ossetians who famously shot down our planes in August 8. They could not help but fire at them precisely because of this very secrecy.

                  Well, or if you recall the Serdyukov reforms. With a surge in non-regulation and, as a result, a surge in injuries and deaths. The information was immediately closed, although before that it was in the public domain from the moment the RF Ministry of Defense appeared. Here secrecy covers up the unsuccessful decisions of the MO leadership.

                  And so on. There should be as much secrecy as it really needs.
            2. dauria
              dauria 14 August 2020 19: 32 New
              -1
              Translations of reviews of Soviet military equipment from Jane to the USSR were classified as "ДСП".


              In an ordinary military school library, take it, sit in front of the librarian and read. It's just that these reference books were expensive and rare. And she only made sure that they did not flutter and did not fold the pages. There were no chipboard stamps. 1979, if that. By the way, in Jane's 78th year there was a photo and projection of the MiG-29, which few people have seen alive in the Union and knew the name.
          2. volodimer
            volodimer 14 August 2020 18: 25 New
            +2
            An ordinary citizen of the USSR knew much less than the intelligence agencies of a potential enemy.

            Not really ...
            We all knew when they would bring the "secret" to the soldiers ... Because, as "to indicate the place of receipt ..." they burned a fire from the tires, and the commanders stood and waited nearby wassat
            And, when the "sea" conducted their exercises, in all settlements adjacent to the water area, the population was notified that entry into the water and the launching of floating craft was prohibited .. From such and such and to such and such ...
            Now, thanks to carelessness, or military cunning, everything has become more fun, the planned work is happening at the wrong time and in the wrong place ...
            And the probable partners have already launched satellites ... flew by, filmed everything ... and for nothing ...
            Then we are like in DMB: "we change the terrain ..."
            For that, then on Google fresh high-quality and very detailed maps of areas ... bully
          3. Ross xnumx
            Ross xnumx 15 August 2020 04: 32 New
            -3
            Quote: Spade
            And it will come to the ridiculous, as it was under the USSR.

            I see that you, with your rich track record, have had a lot of grunt in a special department? wassat
            Quote: Spade
            When the country could be imprisoned for spreading the information that the local military uses to wipe their asses in some Egypt (a real case from a direct participant)

            Here, it turns out, what secrets plain water gives. And you tell us about the "secretaries" who lost sheets of maps during the exercises.
            It is not necessary to reduce everything to anecdotes and OBS information.
            Judging by the spelling, some site visitors do not have the slightest idea not only about military service, but also about life in the USSR, and you are adding fuel to the fire.
            Remember Belenko and his flight. Something foreign intelligence services failed to obtain secret information in the form of encrypted notes ...
            Yes. There was such a service - the GRU General Staff of the USSR Armed Forces. People who were engaged in disinformation worked there. Doesn't he say anything?
            And lastly, I have never seen a person who was imprisoned for disseminating information to the DSP. Penalties could be imposed.
            The “spies” were harshly treated at the IVS, but with the entry into office of the National Union of Artists, these Stalinist “excesses” were successfully overcome.
            You, a "gold stamping" specialist, should be ashamed of spreading fakes about the USSR Armed Forces. Even in terms of the fact that in any army in the world there were cases of leakage not only of classified information, but also of secret developments.
            Judging by those 28 "search engines" of blackness and dirt in the Soviet way of life, your work is at the peak of glory.
            1. Lopatov
              Lopatov 15 August 2020 19: 56 New
              +1
              Quote: ROSS 42
              Here, it turns out, what secrets plain water gives.

              If water ...

              Quote: ROSS 42
              It is not necessary to reduce everything to anecdotes and OBS information.

              This is not an anecdote, and not an OBS. A real anti-aircraft gunner, real work as a military adviser, real TO and IE. Which in the USSR were held under the stamp.
        2. Alien ...
          Alien ... 15 August 2020 00: 55 New
          +1
          And now they are known, there is no current in that country ...
    4. Skifotavr
      Skifotavr 14 August 2020 15: 37 New
      16
      Now the Serdyukovs and their partners will take a walk! fellow
      1. 1976AG
        1976AG 14 August 2020 15: 47 New
        -10
        Quote: Skifotavr
        Now the Serdyukovs and their partners will take a walk! fellow


        They just roamed when this law was not.
        1. Skifotavr
          Skifotavr 14 August 2020 15: 52 New
          10
          Then so much stench arose that Volodya had to remove it from sight for a while, but now ...
          1. Lopatov
            Lopatov 14 August 2020 16: 04 New
            +1
            Quote: Skifotavr
            Then so much stench arose that Volodya had to remove it from sight for a while,

            It was removed by completely different people. Those same sawers.
            1. Alex777
              Alex777 14 August 2020 18: 43 New
              0
              It was removed by completely different people. Those same sawers.

              Is it? IMHO he put the eggs in the wrong basket.
              Like Surkov before the second coming.
              Then both repented and VVP forgave them.
              1. Lopatov
                Lopatov 14 August 2020 19: 49 New
                +3
                Quote: Alex777
                IMHO he put the eggs in the wrong basket.

                Exactly.
                He began to put too much pressure on the "gunsmiths", including with foreign orders. So it flew off.
                1. Alex777
                  Alex777 15 August 2020 11: 17 New
                  0
                  You are wrong. He made the wrong political bets.
                  I thought that Medvedev would go for a second term. yes
                2. Skifotavr
                  Skifotavr 24 August 2020 23: 24 New
                  0
                  Quote: Spade
                  He began to put too much pressure on the "gunsmiths", including with foreign orders. So it flew off.

                  Fuck knows ... If so, then it's better to let them saw their own. smile
            2. Alien ...
              Alien ... 15 August 2020 01: 00 New
              +2
              2000 who brought Iveco to us? I wanted 3 thousand, but did not have time ... Who started the wholesale importation, which we cannot disentangle now?
              1. Lopatov
                Lopatov 15 August 2020 11: 32 New
                +2
                Quote: Alien ...
                2000 who brought Iveco to us? I wanted 3 thousand, but did not have time ...

                And it's a pity that I didn't have time ...
                Or are you sure that paying the disabled and the families of the victims is cheaper?

                By the way, we still have no analogue
                1. Alien ...
                  Alien ... 15 August 2020 21: 27 New
                  0
                  Do you need an analogue?
                  And where does the disabled? Come on, tell me how the Iveks saved lives.
      2. Lopatov
        Lopatov 14 August 2020 15: 51 New
        11
        Definitely.
        It will become much easier to saw.
      3. fyvaprold
        fyvaprold 14 August 2020 16: 01 New
        -11
        Quote: Skifotavr
        Now the Serdyukovs and their partners will take a walk! fellow

        And if it's not a secret, then, apparently, the all-propalschiks from VO will exhaust all corruption with their whining. laughing laughing laughing
    5. Shilka
      Shilka 14 August 2020 15: 52 New
      -9
      Quote: 1976AG
      It is high time !!!

      They took it straight off the tongue .. And then, as the bazaars will be divorced, the spies only rub their hands sit on the site analyze or provoke for disclosure ..
      Even the drawings are posted by some ..
      1. Lopatov
        Lopatov 14 August 2020 16: 02 New
        17
        Quote: Shilka
        Even the drawings are posted by some ..

        8)))))
        Spies see these drawings long before they appear on the site. For the owners of intellectual property need to protect it. And this is done through patents.
        1. Ruswolf
          Ruswolf 14 August 2020 16: 35 New
          +3
          Quote: Spade
          Spies see these drawings long before they appear on the site. For the owners of intellectual property need to protect it. And this is done through patents.

          After studying, the spies give permission to post information if it is good. If not - write - Not of interest.
          Although some spies (advanced) see these blueprints for a debt before they appear .....
        2. Shilka
          Shilka 14 August 2020 22: 24 New
          -2
          Quote: Spade
          Quote: Shilka
          Even the drawings are posted by some ..

          8)))))
          Spies see these drawings long before they appear on the site. For the owners of intellectual property need to protect it. And this is done through patents.

          Lapatov what patents in the military-industrial complex? Well, what are you carrying right here ..
          I mean that there are a lot of chatterboxes here who want to emphasize their awareness here and brag here to the delight of some "comrades" ...
          After all, they surrender our ignorant people, with their bragging rights here .. negative
          I think so hi
        3. Iwan_de
          Iwan_de 14 August 2020 22: 57 New
          +2
          Give up the fuck
    6. Blackmokona
      Blackmokona 14 August 2020 16: 30 New
      11
      Sounds of an overclocked corruption saw and a celebration among incompetent officials
    7. Cyril G ...
      Cyril G ... 14 August 2020 17: 26 New
      +7
      Quote: 1976AG
      It is high time !!!


      This just cannot be done from the word at all
      Here, at least some movements in the right direction are going. And so you want to revive the old "collectors' case"?
      In my opinion, even now the level of secrecy is, in principle, excessive. And as you know, the more documents and directions are classified, the higher the likelihood of losing real secret information ...
    8. PSih2097
      PSih2097 15 August 2020 15: 54 New
      +1
      Quote: 1976AG
      It is high time !!!

      I wonder what you will say when the GB comes to arrest you under Art. State Treason and Espionage for disclosing the same chipboard on the forum based on inferences about the performance characteristics of classified items ...
      Quote: Shilka
      They removed it straight from the tongue .. And then, as the bazaars will be divorced, the shpiens only rub their hands, sit on the site analyze or provoke for disclosure ..
      Even the drawings are posted by some ..

      Oh one more ...
      Everything that is laid out here is on the internet, and from manufacturers ...
  2. Vladimir61
    Vladimir61 14 August 2020 15: 08 New
    0
    And rightly so! Stop leaking national security issues publicly. In China, this is the norm, so now no one knows for sure how capable he is with resisting threats. Only the "mouth" needs to be covered, first of all, by some heads of state corporations and ministers connected with the defense order, otherwise the information from their bragging, sometimes from a cornucopia.
    1. Mountain shooter
      Mountain shooter 14 August 2020 15: 23 New
      -2
      Quote: Vladimir61
      And rightly so! Stop Leaking National Security Issues Openly

      Yes, from this permissiveness is already dazzling in the eyes. How long can information about the state defense order be released to the public?
      1. SovAr238A
        SovAr238A 18 August 2020 13: 16 New
        -1
        Quote: Mountain Shooter
        Quote: Vladimir61
        And rightly so! Stop Leaking National Security Issues Openly

        Yes, from this permissiveness is already dazzling in the eyes. How long can information about the state defense order be released to the public?

        And in what access do people take information about the state order? Isn't it open?

        You turn on your head when you have typing mode ...
        1. Mountain shooter
          Mountain shooter 18 August 2020 13: 36 New
          -1
          Quote: SovAr238A
          And in what access do people take information about the state order? Isn't it open?

          You turn on your head when you have typing mode ...

          Open when needed ... but there is also a CLOSED register. Did not know? You are not supposed to ...
          1. SovAr238A
            SovAr238A 18 August 2020 18: 03 New
            0
            Quote: Mountain Shooter
            Quote: SovAr238A
            And in what access do people take information about the state order? Isn't it open?

            You turn on your head when you have typing mode ...

            Open when needed ... but there is also a CLOSED register. Did not know? You are not supposed to ...


            Well, I personally worked with the State Defense Order for several years ..

            And when I finished doing this, I find a lot of information on the simple https://zakupki.gov.ru/
            1. Mountain shooter
              Mountain shooter 18 August 2020 18: 22 New
              0
              Quote: SovAr238A

              Well, I personally worked with the State Defense Order for several years

              And now I'm working with him. laughing
              1. SovAr238A
                SovAr238A 18 August 2020 21: 56 New
                0
                Quote: Mountain Shooter
                Quote: SovAr238A

                Well, I personally worked with the State Defense Order for several years

                And now I'm working with him. laughing

                It seems to me that you are just lying ...
                1. Mountain shooter
                  Mountain shooter 18 August 2020 23: 26 New
                  0
                  Quote: SovAr238A
                  It seems to me that you are just lying

                  And I'm sure you are! Just a few days ago, my company delivered a state defense order installation for the UEC. But to communicate with boors is not to respect yourself ...
  3. Region68
    Region68 14 August 2020 15: 08 New
    +7
    Secret everything .. At the same time, turn off the Internet, leave 2 TV channels ..
    1. AUL
      AUL 14 August 2020 15: 16 New
      +7
      As a result, the media periodically gets official information concerning the organization of state defense ...
      Or maybe it is necessary to punish those through whose fault such information gets into the media? Not? Then it is necessary to cover up all the media, anyway, they will sniff out something. IN - First of all! fool
      1. figwam
        figwam 14 August 2020 16: 10 New
        +5
        Quote: AUL
        yes sniff. IN - first of all

        Everything will be classified on VO there will be nothing to review)))
    2. Vladimir61
      Vladimir61 14 August 2020 15: 21 New
      +3
      Quote: Region68
      Secret everything ..

      Well, we don't advertise our data here either! Region68 and that's it, fuck off, the rest, my personal secret is enshrined in the Constitution ...
    3. 1976AG
      1976AG 14 August 2020 15: 22 New
      +4
      Quote: Region68
      Secret everything .. At the same time, turn off the Internet, leave 2 TV channels ..

      We really didn't plan this, but since you ask, we will.
    4. Terenin
      Terenin 14 August 2020 15: 37 New
      +3
      Quote: Region68
      Secret everything .. At the same time, turn off the Internet, leave 2 TV channels ..

      I understand one of the two channels is an American TV show, and the other? winked
      1. Shilka
        Shilka 14 August 2020 15: 56 New
        +3
        Quote: Terenin
        Quote: Region68
        Secret everything .. At the same time, turn off the Internet, leave 2 TV channels ..

        I understand one of the two channels is an American TV show, and the other? winked

        Second 95th quarter and Posner with Urgant .. laughing
    5. fyvaprold
      fyvaprold 14 August 2020 16: 05 New
      -8
      Quote: Region68
      Secret everything .. At the same time, turn off the Internet, leave 2 TV channels ..

      Not bezbagodez, it will be necessary - they will drown out, and for you and other "Carbonari" they will also leave the third channel - "Carousel". laughing
  4. Aleksandr1971
    Aleksandr1971 14 August 2020 15: 12 New
    +4
    Fine. Now the very fact of the army's existence in the Russian Federation will become a state secret. For any conversation about it, even for the word "army" itself, there will be criminal punishment.
    1. Vladimir61
      Vladimir61 14 August 2020 15: 23 New
      -4
      Quote: Aleksandr1971
      For any conversation about it, even for the very word "army", there will be criminal punishment.
      And where did you read it, between the lines?
      1. Aleksandr1971
        Aleksandr1971 14 August 2020 16: 05 New
        +6
        the army eats something, rides something and shoots something and all that jazz .... So, within the meaning of the Defense Ministry's initiative, everything related to the defense order (and the army is definitely connected with this order) must be classified.
        1. Vladimir61
          Vladimir61 14 August 2020 16: 14 New
          -3
          Quote: Aleksandr1971
          the army eats something, rides something and shoots something and all that jazz ...

          I am not an expert, but I think there will be some! Write who you are and what you bought within a year and they will give you the answer: your financial condition, income, expenses, number of family members, what social class of society you belong to! This is something that will interest even the tax authorities and bailiffs.
          1. Aleksandr1971
            Aleksandr1971 14 August 2020 19: 11 New
            +2
            The topic is not about mine and not about your income and expenses - this is a private matter and does not belong to the site's profile.

            The topic is about the fact that officials of the Ministry of Defense, under the sauce of secrecy, want to plunder the state budget in terms of defense spending. Such bureaucratic tricks should not go unpunished. It is these officials, and not pseudo-English and pseudo-Japanese spies, that should be severely punished in prisons.

            But there are mongrels who are always ready to yap on any information resource for any thieves' initiative of officials, in the hope of snatching bits from the master's table.
        2. Cyril G ...
          Cyril G ... 14 August 2020 17: 28 New
          +1
          It turns out that this is already a delusional formulation of the question. Forgot the late Soviet time?
          1. Doliva63
            Doliva63 14 August 2020 19: 44 New
            +1
            "Forgot the late Soviet time?"
            I think we still live in it laughing
    2. 1976AG
      1976AG 14 August 2020 15: 41 New
      -5
      Quote: Aleksandr1971
      Fine. Now the very fact of the army's existence in the Russian Federation will become a state secret. For any conversation about it, even for the word "army" itself, there will be criminal punishment.

      And you just have to blurt out something.
      1. Aleksandr1971
        Aleksandr1971 14 August 2020 16: 10 New
        +9
        The army is associated with a defense order. And the Ministry of Defense proposes to classify all the information related to this order, therefore the army too. This is a literal interpretation of officials rubbing their sweaty palms in anticipation of a big theft.

        Something like this was the case with the defense order for the Navy of Imperial Russia before the Russo-Japanese war - money was thrown into the fleet and stolen, by the way, by the uncle of the Tsar himself. And the result of such mystery in the formation of the Russian Imperial Navy is Tsushima.

        And now, apparently, the matter tends to the same.
      2. Doliva63
        Doliva63 14 August 2020 19: 45 New
        0
        Quote: 1976AG
        Quote: Aleksandr1971
        Fine. Now the very fact of the army's existence in the Russian Federation will become a state secret. For any conversation about it, even for the word "army" itself, there will be criminal punishment.

        And you just have to blurt out something.

        Are you sorry? recourse
    3. fyvaprold
      fyvaprold 14 August 2020 16: 06 New
      -8
      Quote: Aleksandr1971
      For any conversation about it, even for the very word "army", there will be criminal punishment.

      Out of season you have an aggravation ... after all, August. repeat
  5. Wwk7260
    Wwk7260 14 August 2020 15: 12 New
    +7
    to classify the state defense order in capitalism is very much to wave corruption, despite the fact that it is impossible to conceal this information from foreign intelligence services simply by definition, it is only to the detriment of the army, but the Ministry of Defense is an extra reservation of inviolability.
    1. K-612-O
      K-612-O 14 August 2020 15: 39 New
      -12
      You have no idea how the state defense order is arranged, it is impossible even to try to steal.
      1. fyvaprold
        fyvaprold 14 August 2020 16: 08 New
        -8
        Quote: K-612-O
        You have no idea how the SDO works

        By definition, he believes in the unlimited possibilities of Western intelligence services, the very ones that Avangard and Poseidon missed ...
        1. Wwk7260
          Wwk7260 14 August 2020 16: 16 New
          +6
          how can you overlook what is not? winked
          1. fyvaprold
            fyvaprold 14 August 2020 16: 27 New
            -4
            Quote: Wwk7260
            how can you overlook what is not? winked

            Secondly, the true answer from a "professional Western intelligence service." It is even better to close your eyes at the same time and say: - "I don't see anything, I'm in the house." laughing
      2. Doliva63
        Doliva63 14 August 2020 19: 47 New
        +5
        Quote: K-612-O
        You have no idea how the state defense order is arranged, it is impossible even to try to steal.

        You are simply not aware of the reports of the Accounts Chamber - up to 25% of them were stolen there.
  6. anjey anjey
    anjey anjey 14 August 2020 15: 13 New
    10
    Then a noble person will come to "SAW" - we will cover everything with a "stamp" and no one will know where the money has gone ...
    1. K-612-O
      K-612-O 14 August 2020 15: 38 New
      -4
      As soon as money starts to flow out of the state defense order, the prosecutor's office and the FSB appear on the doorstep, even if there is a suspicion of sawing and leaking. This money cannot be withdrawn anywhere. Believe me, we work with the GOZ, you won't wish such happiness to anyone.
      1. anjey anjey
        anjey anjey 14 August 2020 15: 48 New
        +6
        We had a desire to take on a good, and most importantly, a very specialized order through the GosOboronZakaz, but ... out of nowhere, people in civilian clothes appeared on the doorstep and clearly explained that it was not worth crossing the road for the right "comrades", well, "but if, I really want to - it will cost so much "- 7 numbers on paper" and we will organize everything. "
        1. Vladimir61
          Vladimir61 14 August 2020 15: 59 New
          -3
          Quote: anjey anjey
          We had a desire to take on a good, and most importantly, a very specialized order through the State Defense Order
          Where do you have it? Why are you ashamed, the names of factories and firms are not classified with us! Blah blah blah ... from Azerbaijan
        2. fyvaprold
          fyvaprold 14 August 2020 16: 10 New
          -5
          Quote: anjey anjey
          We had a desire to take on a good, and most importantly, a very specialized order through the GosOboronZakaz, but ... out of nowhere, people in civilian clothes appeared on the doorstep and clearly explained that it was not worth crossing the road for the right "comrades", well, "but if, I really want to - it will cost so much "- 7 numbers on paper" and we will organize everything. "

          Didn't you try to contact the prosecutor's office with this "info", or were they afraid that they would attract them for libel?
          1. anjey anjey
            anjey anjey 14 August 2020 16: 23 New
            +5
            Where do you think people in "civilian clothes" were from? Now my enterprise is surviving its last months - in six months there are only 6 orders, this is enough to settle accounts with the state and the workers, and then we'll see, maybe we can turn to, there is little information.
      2. Aleksandr1971
        Aleksandr1971 14 August 2020 16: 15 New
        12
        I will not believe.

        An example is the state procurement of food for the National Guard of the Russian Federation: //pasmi.ru/archive/224615/
        So, cabbage in 2018 for state purchases for national guardsmen cost 10 times more than in free markets. And at the same time, the law enforcement officers did not even scratch themselves - Zolotov and his accomplices still do not sit in prison
      3. Doliva63
        Doliva63 14 August 2020 19: 51 New
        0
        They steal even in the production of missiles - there was a link about ZiK here.
    2. Quadro
      Quadro 14 August 2020 17: 12 New
      -2
      Quote: anjey anjey
      Then a noble person will come to "SAW" - we will cover everything with a "stamp" and no one will know where the money has gone ...

      Where are we to the elves from the hail on the hill, they saw even without state secrets, the rims from the toilet bowl and hammers are dozens and hundreds of times more expensive. And their recent modernization f15 comes out at a price of f22.
  7. Aleksandr1971
    Aleksandr1971 14 August 2020 15: 14 New
    +4
    Up to a heap of the military, everyone needs to change into civilian clothes, even when on duty, so that God forbid with his military uniforms not to divulge military secrets.
    1. Terenin
      Terenin 14 August 2020 15: 50 New
      0
      Quote: Aleksandr1971
      Up to a heap of the military, everyone needs to change into civilian clothes, even when on duty, so that God forbid with his military uniforms not to divulge military secrets.

      Where to go if the unit was so secret that you can only tell about it that they served in boots. bully
    2. K298rtm
      K298rtm 14 August 2020 17: 24 New
      +1
      This has already been passed - they changed the BB uniform (only black boots were left - someone was saving). however, all the girls (both with high and low social responsibility) knew who, where and how much they made.
  8. Uran53
    Uran53 14 August 2020 15: 14 New
    +8
    Then only POLITICAL REVIEW will remain of the MILITARY REVIEW
    1. fyvaprold
      fyvaprold 14 August 2020 16: 11 New
      +4
      Quote: Uran53
      Then only POLITICAL REVIEW will remain of the MILITARY REVIEW

      Rather "Echo of Moscow Review", judging by the latest trends.
      1. Quadro
        Quadro 14 August 2020 17: 17 New
        -2
        Quote: fyvaprold
        Quote: Uran53
        Then only POLITICAL REVIEW will remain of the MILITARY REVIEW

        Rather "Echo of Moscow Review", judging by the latest trends.

        It has already become so. The age-old whining of sofa experts about what we all do wrong. There is a recent silly opus in the form of a comparison between Tukhachevsky and the modern MO. They are stupid, and we are the smartest on the site.
  9. Kolka Semenov
    Kolka Semenov 14 August 2020 15: 19 New
    10
    Sheer stupidity! It will be like in the USSR, where many were confident in the total superiority of Western weapons, since there was no information about Soviet technology. As a result, the info-environment will turn into a continuous garbage dump, where hundreds of garbage publications will pour empty ones from empty spaces, and lovers of Western weapons will flourish in a wild color.
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. Aleksandr1971
      Aleksandr1971 14 August 2020 16: 19 New
      +6
      It will be like in the USSR at the beginning of 1941, when everyone here thought that we would fight with little blood on enemy territory. And they thought so because they considered their army and military equipment to be the best, and the enemy's equipment was considered a trash heap. But 1941 showed what really happened. And 1945 was given with such blood precisely because our people realized that until 1941 they were total fools.
      1. Quadro
        Quadro 14 August 2020 17: 19 New
        -5
        Quote: Aleksandr1971
        It will be like in the USSR at the beginning of 1941, when everyone here thought that we would fight with little blood on enemy territory. And they thought so because they considered their army and military equipment to be the best, and the enemy's equipment was considered a trash heap. But 1941 showed what really happened. And 1945 was given with such blood precisely because our people realized that until 1941 they were total fools.

        Will there be proofs or just pouring water?
    3. Cyril G ...
      Cyril G ... 14 August 2020 17: 32 New
      +2
      Quote: Semenov Kolka
      It will be like in the USSR, where many were confident in the total superiority of Western weapons, since there was no information about Soviet technology.


      Everything is correct. And in principle, this cannot be done.
      1. Doliva63
        Doliva63 14 August 2020 19: 55 New
        -1
        Quote: Cyril G ...
        Quote: Semenov Kolka
        It will be like in the USSR, where many were confident in the total superiority of Western weapons, since there was no information about Soviet technology.


        Everything is correct. And in principle, this cannot be done.

        This was not done in the Union. Whoever needs it, knew everything about the enemy equipment and about our own. Comrade, apparently, the USSR did not find laughing
        1. Cyril G ...
          Cyril G ... 14 August 2020 20: 00 New
          +1
          Quote: Doliva63
          This was not done in the Union. Whoever needs it, knew everything about the enemy equipment and about our own. Comrade, apparently, the USSR did not find


          Who needs? Do not make me laugh. I found out what the post-war Navy is after flipping through Jane 76-77 in 1989 and I was 18 years old. I was simply given to support it in my hands .... Of course, there were no books on the modern fleet. Although there are no secrets in the appearance and brand / name of the ship or aircraft, as well as in its approximate performance characteristics, there are no words at all ...

          These MO jumps are connected with the fact that it is easier and quieter to cut the budget into a quiet one .. And here different Klimovs and others interfere ...
          1. Doliva63
            Doliva63 14 August 2020 20: 08 New
            0
            Quote: Cyril G ...
            Quote: Doliva63
            This was not done in the Union. Whoever needs it, knew everything about the enemy equipment and about our own. Comrade, apparently, the USSR did not find


            Who needs? Do not make me laugh. I found out what the post-war navy is by flipping through Jane 76-77. I was just given to support it in my hands .... Of course, there were no books on the modern fleet. Although there are no secrets in the appearance and brand / name of the ship or aircraft, as well as in its approximate performance characteristics, there are no words at all ...

            These MO jumps are connected with the fact that it is easier and calmer to cut the budget in a quiet environment.

            If I make you laugh, you owe me - I extended your life by a couple of minutes laughing In the 70s, I actively studied the submarine fleet and submarine theory. Everything was in the open press. Well, there was, of course, no naval payroll for fleets and flotillas, but someone needs it, except for spies? And to saw - yes, it will be easier. And not only to saw. You can just hide a lot. When I wore epaulettes, I also wanted so. In civilian life, I began to think differently.
            1. 1976AG
              1976AG 15 August 2020 09: 08 New
              0
              Quote: Doliva63
              Quote: Cyril G ...
              Quote: Doliva63
              This was not done in the Union. Whoever needs it, knew everything about the enemy equipment and about our own. Comrade, apparently, the USSR did not find


              Who needs? Do not make me laugh. I found out what the post-war navy is by flipping through Jane 76-77. I was just given to support it in my hands .... Of course, there were no books on the modern fleet. Although there are no secrets in the appearance and brand / name of the ship or aircraft, as well as in its approximate performance characteristics, there are no words at all ...

              These MO jumps are connected with the fact that it is easier and calmer to cut the budget in a quiet environment.

              If I make you laugh, you owe me - I extended your life by a couple of minutes laughing In the 70s, I actively studied the submarine fleet and submarine theory. Everything was in the open press. Well, there was, of course, no naval payroll for fleets and flotillas, but someone needs it, except for spies? And to saw - yes, it will be easier. And not only to saw. You can just hide a lot. When I wore epaulettes, I also wanted so. In civilian life, I began to think differently.

              They really made fun of it. You first specify in whose open press it was all. Just don’t say that it was in the Soviet era, or I know, I also remember the 70s and I know that modern Soviet military equipment was not described in detail anywhere.
              1. Doliva63
                Doliva63 15 August 2020 19: 05 New
                0
                Quote: 1976AG
                Quote: Doliva63
                Quote: Cyril G ...
                Quote: Doliva63
                This was not done in the Union. Whoever needs it, knew everything about the enemy equipment and about our own. Comrade, apparently, the USSR did not find


                Who needs? Do not make me laugh. I found out what the post-war navy is by flipping through Jane 76-77. I was just given to support it in my hands .... Of course, there were no books on the modern fleet. Although there are no secrets in the appearance and brand / name of the ship or aircraft, as well as in its approximate performance characteristics, there are no words at all ...

                These MO jumps are connected with the fact that it is easier and calmer to cut the budget in a quiet environment.

                If I make you laugh, you owe me - I extended your life by a couple of minutes laughing In the 70s, I actively studied the submarine fleet and submarine theory. Everything was in the open press. Well, there was, of course, no naval payroll for fleets and flotillas, but someone needs it, except for spies? And to saw - yes, it will be easier. And not only to saw. You can just hide a lot. When I wore epaulettes, I also wanted so. In civilian life, I began to think differently.

                They really made fun of it. You first specify in whose open press it was all. Just don’t say that it was in the Soviet era, or I know, I also remember the 70s and I know that modern Soviet military equipment was not described in detail anywhere.

                I do not understand. Where was the Soviet military equipment not described? How did I study it then? According to legends, or what? laughing In any Soviet textbook, these "descriptions" were - heaps! As well as VVUZah, of course. Yes, a lot was under the stamp - the same Realia or Tabun, and still there - what has changed? And about Hunting, you will find a lot in the open press, and this has been growing since the 1970s. Well, and the fact that you can now even read on toilet paper how much the T-72 weighed - helps you morally, or what? As for my post, I wrote about the study of theory based on the open press - it was available. Of course, no one advertised modern technology in particular. And why? Who cares, entered the VVUZ, study everything for yourself! drinks
  10. 7,62h54
    7,62h54 14 August 2020 15: 23 New
    +9
    And what are we going to comment on here?
    1. 1976AG
      1976AG 14 August 2020 15: 42 New
      -6
      Quote: 7,62x54
      And what are we going to comment on here?

      National defense is dearer than our gatherings.
      1. Cyril G ...
        Cyril G ... 14 August 2020 17: 33 New
        +3
        There is no national defense here, I see selfish interest.
        1. 1976AG
          1976AG 14 August 2020 21: 17 New
          -2
          Quote: Cyril G ...
          There is no national defense here, I see selfish interest.

          The fact that you do not see anything except selfish interest does not mean anything. This is just your personal point of view and nothing more.
          1. Cyril G ...
            Cyril G ... 14 August 2020 21: 39 New
            0
            And also the experience of service in the HRT unit, let's say. And he prompts - "The larger the amount of information these madmen try to classify, the more likely it is that information that really should be secret will leak away ..."
      2. Aag
        Aag 14 August 2020 17: 42 New
        -3
        Quote: 1976AG
        Quote: 7,62x54
        And what are we going to comment on here?

        National defense is dearer than our gatherings.

        It turns out that someone disagrees with you (judging by the cons) ... sad
        And judging by the texts of the comments, many do not understand what they are writing about at all. About ZGVT (protection of state and military secrets), the 010th order has not been heard am
        1. Doliva63
          Doliva63 14 August 2020 20: 00 New
          0
          Quote: AAG
          Quote: 1976AG
          Quote: 7,62x54
          And what are we going to comment on here?

          National defense is dearer than our gatherings.

          It turns out that someone disagrees with you (judging by the cons) ... sad
          And judging by the texts of the comments, many do not understand what they are writing about at all. About ZGVT (protection of state and military secrets), the 010th order has not been heard am

          Many have heard about the 010 order. And what, the mention of him will now not be criminalized? laughing And yes, this order of the "furry" years was still issued under Strokach. Really not updated even once?
          1. Aag
            Aag 14 August 2020 21: 00 New
            0
            Quote: Doliva63
            Quote: AAG
            Quote: 1976AG
            Quote: 7,62x54
            And what are we going to comment on here?

            National defense is dearer than our gatherings.

            It turns out that someone disagrees with you (judging by the cons) ... sad
            And judging by the texts of the comments, many do not understand what they are writing about at all. About ZGVT (protection of state and military secrets), the 010th order has not been heard am

            Many have heard about the 010 order. And what, the mention of him will now not be criminalized? laughing And yes, this order of the "furry" years was still issued under Strokach. Really not updated even once?

            Fill in the search engine. Before writing, I typed, with caution ... I was stunned. Then I thought, not from 28.01.2020/XNUMX/XNUMX, are the legs of the article growing?
            1. Doliva63
              Doliva63 15 August 2020 18: 53 New
              0
              Quote: AAG
              Quote: Doliva63
              Quote: AAG
              Quote: 1976AG
              Quote: 7,62x54
              And what are we going to comment on here?

              National defense is dearer than our gatherings.

              It turns out that someone disagrees with you (judging by the cons) ... sad
              And judging by the texts of the comments, many do not understand what they are writing about at all. About ZGVT (protection of state and military secrets), the 010th order has not been heard am

              Many have heard about the 010 order. And what, the mention of him will now not be criminalized? laughing And yes, this order of the "furry" years was still issued under Strokach. Really not updated even once?

              Fill in the search engine. Before writing, I typed, with caution ... I was stunned. Then I thought, not from 28.01.2020/XNUMX/XNUMX, are the legs of the article growing?

              What happened on 28.01.2020/XNUMX/XNUMX?
              1. Aag
                Aag 15 August 2020 18: 58 New
                0
                It just did not happen ... Changes to order 010 of 28.01.2020/010/XNUMX were not accepted. Fill in the search engine "XNUMX order" ...
                1. Doliva63
                  Doliva63 15 August 2020 19: 40 New
                  0
                  Quote: AAG
                  It just did not happen ... Changes to order 010 of 28.01.2020/010/XNUMX were not accepted. Fill in the search engine "XNUMX order" ...

                  So I just scored and read in the Consultant about the changes from 28.01.20/XNUMX/XNUMX. It was amusing that now they do not check for lice for access to classified information. Once upon a time, even a chipboard was not given to everyone, but here it is "secret" without verification measures. Cool laughing Somehow we got a new technique, started to master it, then the special officer rode in - and how do you ensure the regime of non-proliferation of information, like. The orderly sent him from the bedside table - you are not on the list of those with admission. Yes, I have the first! And here only the second is needed, but specifically for this technique. Not? Goodbye. A couple of months later, his surname was on the list of those with admission, but he was no longer eager - once on the floor, a fighter accidentally hit him over the head with nun-chakami (he walked with his back forward along the corridor, did not see the special officer, but he did not see that the fighter nun- chucky twists, that's got it. But did not harbor anger, well done). His office was on our floor, but after that we saw him once - when he came to ask for help. They helped, of course. We did not quarrel with the special officers. For the first person who, after the report of the group upon return, “has” the group, is the special officers. This rule has been since the Second World War, I guess. We had a case - they did not enter the date / time of destruction of the waste sheet from the cipher pad - it was a song later laughing Fortunately, a pile of ashes was found exactly where the rally participants indicated laughing In general, it seems to me that the attitude towards secrecy in the Union was much higher than it is now. drinks
                  1. Aag
                    Aag 16 August 2020 08: 39 New
                    +1
                    Undoubtedly.
                    Bloopers, of course, happened, - how can we do without them)). But what is happening now can only be called a bacchanalia. What can you not hear from an officer passing by talking on smartphones! It remains to be hoped that enemy listeners, analysts are drowning in information. .. drinks
                    1. Doliva63
                      Doliva63 16 August 2020 19: 45 New
                      +1
                      We can only hope that the enemy rumors, analysts are drowning in information ... drinks
                      I agree, of course! drinks
        2. Cyril G ...
          Cyril G ... 14 August 2020 20: 05 New
          -1
          Quote: AAG
          About ZGVT (protection of state and military secrets), 010th order was not heard


          Don't say nonsense. The larger the amount of information these madmen try to classify, the more likely it is that information that really should be secret will leak away ...
          1. Aag
            Aag 16 August 2020 08: 41 New
            0
            Quote: Cyril G ...
            Quote: AAG
            About ZGVT (protection of state and military secrets), 010th order was not heard


            Don't say nonsense. The larger the amount of information these madmen try to classify, the more likely it is that information that really should be secret will leak away ...

            Can you argue?
            1. Cyril G ...
              Cyril G ... 16 August 2020 10: 01 New
              0
              Naturally .. There are enough examples in the fleet. They secret the classification of ships, the concept of applying and developing the forces of the fleet - which is just incredibly delusional. And then the nuances of combat training are leaked in the media in videos from the fleets. If the information is SECRET - it should be SECRET, from everyone. And then in the Soviet years it came to insanity - Jane was lying in the secret library ...
              1. Aag
                Aag 16 August 2020 16: 29 New
                0
                Quote: Cyril G ...
                Naturally .. There are enough examples in the fleet. They secret the classification of ships, the concept of applying and developing the forces of the fleet - which is just incredibly delusional. And then the nuances of combat training are leaked in the media in videos from the fleets. If the information is SECRET - it should be SECRET, from everyone. And then in the Soviet years it came to insanity - Jane was lying in the secret library ...

                Maybe I didn't understand what, but ((IMHO) doesn't explain your previous comment.
                I think that measures should be taken against violators of the secrecy of the director. Then I don't even know what to comment on ... What is the mess now? At all levels. The general tendency is the discrepancy between the legislative and executive parts of the initiatives ... hi
                1. Cyril G ...
                  Cyril G ... 16 August 2020 16: 33 New
                  0
                  I did not understand you. What do you not understand from my statement that the volume and composition of classified information is absolutely excessive? I gave examples. It's enough.
                  1. Aag
                    Aag 16 August 2020 20: 06 New
                    0
                    Quote: Cyril G ...
                    I did not understand you. What do you not understand from my statement that the volume and composition of classified information is absolutely excessive? I gave examples. It's enough.

                    That is, if some media outlets, somewhere, once screwed up, it follows from this that now, let's put everything on display?
                    Earlier, even if you have the highest form of admission, say the first, this did not mean that you would be admitted to the secrets related to the lower form (the second, DSP, for example), if you are not directly related to the topic. In your opinion, this is wrong?
        3. 1976AG
          1976AG 15 August 2020 08: 56 New
          0
          Quote: AAG
          Quote: 1976AG
          Quote: 7,62x54
          And what are we going to comment on here?

          National defense is dearer than our gatherings.

          It turns out that someone disagrees with you (judging by the cons) ... sad
          And judging by the texts of the comments, many do not understand what they are writing about at all. About ZGVT (protection of state and military secrets), the 010th order has not been heard am

          So they are afraid that they will have nothing more to discuss. Favorite toy will be taken away.
    2. Ruswolf
      Ruswolf 14 August 2020 16: 43 New
      0
      Quote: 7,62x54
      And what are we going to comment on here?

      What we cannot and why we cannot comment. And we will take news from Google or U-Tuba. And what is also the version of the US State Department takes the same evidence from U-Tuba
  11. A. Privalov
    A. Privalov 14 August 2020 15: 24 New
    +4
    Prices are increasing ...
    1. Terenin
      Terenin 14 August 2020 15: 53 New
      +4
      Quote: A. Privalov
      Prices are increasing ...

      So, oats are expensive today!
  12. samarin1969
    samarin1969 14 August 2020 15: 27 New
    0
    A wonderful law! And the kings of the export of arms will be ordered to block! And there is no need to merge the performance characteristics of fashionable samples to any "Arabs" and other "curious".
    1. Aleksandr1971
      Aleksandr1971 14 August 2020 16: 21 New
      +3
      Let the Arabs and others buy our equipment with blindfolds, plugged ears, so that they do not recognize our state secrets and with a gagged mouth, so that they do not blather. bully
  13. Lech from Android.
    Lech from Android. 14 August 2020 15: 27 New
    +4
    The Ministry of Defense has nothing more to do that has become ... nonsense began to be replicated. In fact, they want to close our army from the control of our society. They will classify hazing, theft, insanity of individual generals ... this will not lead to anything good. If this happens, this will be the beginning of the collapse of our army.
  14. Victor Ar
    Victor Ar 14 August 2020 15: 30 New
    -10
    All sources of information on military topics are by all means sifted by Western and not very intelligence analytical centers. It is easy for them to use our carelessness and indiscretion, because there are practically no restrictions on publications of a military nature. The correct decision is generally to classify all the developments of our military. This is done all over the world, why give valuable data to a curious enemy. Let it beat in ignorance.
    1. Cyril G ...
      Cyril G ... 14 August 2020 17: 35 New
      0
      Quote: Victor Ar
      The correct decision is generally to classify all the developments of our military. This is done all over the world, why present valuable data to a curious enemy. Let it beat in ignorance.


      The correct decision is to limit the number of topics and issues to be classified, otherwise the result is fiction, just like now.
      1. Aleksandr1971
        Aleksandr1971 14 August 2020 19: 16 New
        0
        The Defense Ministry wished not to limit the number of topics and issues to be classified, but to classify all topics related to the defense sphere.
        1. Cyril G ...
          Cyril G ... 14 August 2020 19: 55 New
          0
          Idiocy. This opens the main path to the complete embezzlement of the military budget. This is the main thing and not mythical spies. The Ministry of Defense should report to the people for every ruble
  15. set of sets
    set of sets 14 August 2020 15: 33 New
    +1
    Everything will be the same, but there will be less chatter, so as not to blurt out too much.)) And then who knows, where is the line to which you can chat, and after which criminal liability works))
    1. Lech from Android.
      Lech from Android. 14 August 2020 15: 46 New
      +5
      There is a law on state secrets ... is that not enough? It is not clear why the Ministry of Defense wants to close our army from its own people.
      1. set of sets
        set of sets 14 August 2020 16: 24 New
        +3
        The army is already closed enough. Apparently, they just want to allow only the information that comes from official sources. Like Putin about hypersound or Shoigu told the press something. And if the media themselves figure something out, they can bring them to criminal responsibility.

        You can still be a carrier of classified information, but not know it, but only guess. This also happens.
        For example, to know more than what is written in the media and the Internet. Then, too, you will not say too much.
  16. Polente the Wanderer
    Polente the Wanderer 14 August 2020 15: 35 New
    +9
    Military review after that you can safely close
    1. Kart
      Kart 14 August 2020 16: 05 New
      -3
      What for?
      They will kill themselves about Roscosmos.
    2. Ruswolf
      Ruswolf 14 August 2020 16: 50 New
      -1
      Quote: Wanderer Polente
      Military review after that you can safely close

      Why close? And who will command military operations outside the Russian Federation?
    3. Quadro
      Quadro 14 August 2020 17: 28 New
      -3
      Quote: Wanderer Polente
      Military review after that you can safely close

      The site is not a military review for a long time, but a political-khaypozhorskaya garbage dump, where opinions from the echo of matzo are broadcast. And if there is something about the military, then we are experts and know better, and the warriors are stupid.
  17. A. Privalov
    A. Privalov 14 August 2020 15: 45 New
    +8
    Gorbushka.
    Foreign Spy:
    - I'll buy a state secret! Buy a state secret!

    suitable Traitor of the motherland:
    - What are you interested in?
    The Foreign Spy whispers in his ear.
    Traitor to the Motherland:
    - There is!
    Foreign Spy:
    - How much are you selling?
    The traitor to the Motherland whispers in his ear.
    Foreign Spy:
    - Wow! So expensive? But why?
    Traitor of the motherland:
    Know, stranger, the most precious thing we have is the Motherland!
  18. askort154
    askort154 14 August 2020 15: 45 New
    -1
    This topic is a "double-edged sword". In Soviet times, there were "mailboxes", forms of admission, from service information to sov.secret.
    How to apply it now? The manufacturer not only does not "secret" his offspring, but, on the contrary, begins to advertise it when "the chicken is still in the nest." Now the "intelligence" is a complete lafa. No need to worry about looking for an "informant", went to the Internet, sipping beer, and collected everything that the cartridge requires of him. Therefore, now the "leak" should be cut in the "nest", and more "misinformation" should be used. And we are at VO, we will "discuss" it, as now. tongue good
    1. Aag
      Aag 14 August 2020 18: 19 New
      -2
      Quote: askort154
      This topic is a "double-edged sword". In Soviet times, there were "mailboxes", forms of admission, from service information to sov.secret.
      How to apply it now? The manufacturer not only does not "secret" his offspring, but, on the contrary, begins to advertise it when "the chicken is still in the nest." Now the "intelligence" is a complete lafa. No need to worry about looking for an "informant", went to the Internet, sipping beer, and collected everything that the cartridge requires of him. Therefore, now the "leak" should be cut in the "nest", and more "misinformation" should be used. And we are at VO, we will "discuss" it, as now. tongue good

      I intended to slap you a minus for ranting about the topic without knowing the forms of admission repeat , - I thought, - you give more and different disinformation! Let the spies drink beer reading our comments! In order to get to the information worthwhile, they will switch to strong alcohol. Well, and then, on our territory, we will defeat them! drinks
      ... To be more serious ... The word combination 010th Order was tried not to be pronounced aloud during the times of the real power of SA. Now, the adopted, not adopted amendments are in the public domain ... belay So we continue to be clever about and without reason. Any ...
    2. Polente the Wanderer
      Polente the Wanderer 15 August 2020 13: 01 New
      +1
      In Soviet times, the posters were:
      The chatterbox is a godsend for the enemy.
  19. Tests
    Tests 14 August 2020 15: 47 New
    +4
    How will the FMBA RF Centers for Hygiene and Surveillance work? Or we will wait for the repetition of Nyonoksa, like a year ago, when at SEVMASH and Zvezdochka, the automation showed an excess of radioactivity in one element by 16 times, in the second - by 9 times, in the third - by 2 times. Dozik machines rushed along the checkpoints. Dosimetrists re-measured everything manually and reported. The city leaders, who were not on vacation, notified kindergartens and medical institutions about the danger, consulted with the region for a long time, sirens and voice alerts were not turned on in the city. The military at the proving ground did not know everything about the accident and the first arrived without protective equipment. The city authorities published official information on the administration website, which did not last long. Then, calls from other cities began, they say, there are pictures of how the wounded from Arkhangelsk to Moscow in protective suits are delivered by helicopters ... In the evening, the whole city knew what and how, approximately, happened. And in the morning, the faces woke up and in the morning they began to select non-disclosure subscriptions from the military, in the age of mobile phones, the Internet and a radiation warning system that works in automatic mode ... Then they remembered the dead scientists, trying to keep silent about the military, doctors in Severodvinsk and Arkhangelsk, pilots. They babbled something about the dead scientists, but at least they were almost immediately awarded. With the military and doctors, the situation with the awards dragged on ... But nobody said anything intelligible to the residents of Nyonoksa and the test settlement of the Polygon - Sopka. It is good that some of the school-age children went on vacation. True, some of the kids from different cities in Nyonoksu to their grandparents on vacation for fresh air, real milk, berries, mushrooms and fresh fish came ... Yes, and there were a lot of fishermen along the seashore, and summer residents from SNT "Kolos" to cities in all snt hundreds. And the western wind pulled the entire cloud through Severodvinsk, and after lunch the clouds that passed through Nyonoksa poured everything down in a rainy afternoon ... Compensation for damage? It seems that the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation does not even know such words ... Although no one has canceled Article 7 of the Law of the Russian Federation "On State Secret" ... wants to increase the number of those who supervise and check the observance of official secrets? Need a new department with a general position?
  20. place
    place 14 August 2020 15: 48 New
    +3
    The main information about the defense "sphere" is economic information. Who paid whom and how much, and this is the "sphere" of the Ministry of Economic Development of Mr. Oreshkin and the banking "sphere", which is completely controlled by the "big brother" from the West. So, once again, they made fun ...
    1. Lech from Android.
      Lech from Android. 14 August 2020 15: 54 New
      +3
      So I think ... at someone in the Ministry of Defense, insanity in the brain began to develop.
      1. leks
        leks 14 August 2020 16: 17 New
        +7
        The tendency is for those in power to classify everything for ordinary people, so that unnecessary questions are not asked where the taxpayers' money goes.
        Under the wording of secrecy, the officials' incomes were classified, so it came to the Ministry of Defense, followed by Roscosmos asking to join the secrecy club.
        Somehow, the officials were classified, but we that the redheads allocate such money for the state defense order and everything is open to the public. Look, all sorts of zhurnalyugi with the bulk of our money consider how we spend it.
    2. The comment was deleted.
      1. Kart
        Kart 14 August 2020 16: 04 New
        -5
        Well, who?
        Of course, people like you are experts on the Internet.
      2. Aleksandr1971
        Aleksandr1971 14 August 2020 16: 27 New
        +1
        By the way, there are several articles in the Constitution of the Russian Federation that contain the word "defense". Therefore, the Constitution of the Russian Federation, and the Law on Defense, must be classified. All places where there are military facilities, including military registration and enlistment offices, must be classified. And for the very word "defense", spoken aloud, the person must be declared an English or Japanese spy and sent to the conveyor belt to Beria.
        1. Quadro
          Quadro 14 August 2020 17: 32 New
          -3
          Quote: Aleksandr1971
          By the way, there are several articles in the Constitution of the Russian Federation that contain the word "defense". Therefore, the Constitution of the Russian Federation, and the Law on Defense, must be classified. All places where there are military facilities, including military registration and enlistment offices, must be classified. And for the very word "defense", spoken aloud, the person must be declared an English or Japanese spy and sent to the conveyor belt to Beria.

          You, too, would not hurt to conceal, somewhere in the felling or Magadan. And then you write too much "secret", "army", "defense".
          1. The comment was deleted.
          2. Aleksandr1971
            Aleksandr1971 14 August 2020 19: 22 New
            0
            You, Quadro-offended, need to be eliminated, otherwise you are talking a lot of nonsense ...
            1. The comment was deleted.
            2. Quadro
              Quadro 14 August 2020 22: 08 New
              0
              Quote: Aleksandr1971
              You, Quadro-offended, need to be eliminated, otherwise you are talking a lot of nonsense ...

              What are you croaking there nullified? First, read your crazy vyser. There is not a single comment on the case from you, only teenage nonsense you talk about. By the way, I answered you in about the same style - otherwise you don't understand. It's funny people like you take offense at this. Purely indispensable "and we are for Sho".
  21. Kart
    Kart 14 August 2020 16: 03 New
    -11
    Well, everything, whiners and fierce fighters for people's happiness disappeared.
    Where should the fan be directed now?
    1. Lech from Android.
      Lech from Android. 14 August 2020 16: 18 New
      0
      And try for yourself ... the fighters for secrecy are not much different from the fighters for the people's happiness.
  22. Livonetc
    Livonetc 14 August 2020 16: 06 New
    +4
    Our VO resource may be significantly depleted for subject information.
    We will further fuel our interest with rumors and fantasies.
    Alas, and ah.
    1. Lech from Android.
      Lech from Android. 14 August 2020 16: 20 New
      +5
      This has already happened .. the quality of information on VO does not stand up to criticism.
  23. Alexey from Perm
    Alexey from Perm 14 August 2020 16: 20 New
    +2
    This is only to avoid criticism of stupid decisions, and also drank the budget and other stupidity, such as marching temples in the Airborne Forces.
  24. tuts
    tuts 14 August 2020 16: 20 New
    -1
    The concept of CT-a commercial secret has been known for a long time and it can be applied everywhere and with or without reason.
  25. rocket757
    rocket757 14 August 2020 16: 38 New
    +2
    A double edged sword !!! Or breasts, old, old!
    We can do it AS ALWAYS, we have given rights and opportunities, and zealous fools WILL ALWAYS FIND!
    I am not against the observance of important secrets, state, military, commercial, well, TRAIN those responsible and others who are aware, as they should, for years and are chasing all the nonsense that "floats" in the internet!
    Real shpiens, earners of REALLY secret information, do not "float" here.
    In short, do not fall, prohibit other lower classes, from INcompetence, NOT ABILITY TO WORK as it should.
  26. Wolf
    Wolf 14 August 2020 17: 14 New
    +1
    This, on the other hand, will lead the people to sumnyevatsya how much the state is ready to defend the people and the state. It is necessary to make a strict selection of what is secret and what is not. Considering that the special services of potential enemies are well known to almost everyone, then the question to whom is this in favor?
  27. K298rtm
    K298rtm 14 August 2020 17: 15 New
    +2
    1. Chipboard like nobody canceled (?).
    2. We will not have news in the future tense.
    3. At VO we will discuss rumors, gossip, different fantasies - also entertainment.
    1. Aag
      Aag 14 August 2020 19: 43 New
      +1
      Quote: K298rtm
      1. Chipboard like nobody canceled (?).
      2. We will not have news in the future tense.
      3. At VO we will discuss rumors, gossip, different fantasies - also entertainment.

      For the most part, we are engaged in this. Especially in the sections "news", "opinions" ...
  28. Pavel57
    Pavel57 14 August 2020 17: 41 New
    -1
    Yes, too many secrets can be gleaned from open sources.
    1. Aag
      Aag 14 August 2020 19: 41 New
      0
      Quote: Pavel57
      Yes, too many secrets can be gleaned from open sources.

      A lot. Now the problem is in the separation of the wheat from the chaff.
  29. Vitas
    Vitas 14 August 2020 17: 48 New
    +3
    So bloggers are being tried for these "secrets". Although, in essence, abandoned, this is the former greatness and the current fall of the MO.
  30. Clueless
    Clueless 14 August 2020 17: 56 New
    +3
    Oh .. we are introducing censorship. Again? Moreover, obviously with a criminal article, someone will write here about the Old, and sit down.
    For example, about cases of hazing, or theft in the army
  31. Clueless
    Clueless 14 August 2020 17: 57 New
    +2
    Quote: Vitas
    So bloggers are being tried for these "secrets". Although, in essence, abandoned, this is the former greatness and the current fall of the MO.

    Uh-huh, as if foreign intelligence does not see it from satellites
    1. Aag
      Aag 14 August 2020 19: 49 New
      -1
      Quote: Bad
      Quote: Vitas
      So bloggers are being tried for these "secrets". Although, in essence, abandoned, this is the former greatness and the current fall of the MO.

      Uh-huh, as if foreign intelligence does not see it from satellites

      Hazing and theft ...
      For hazing, to school, or even to kindergarten. I have never met such STUPID violence in the Armed Forces, although it was in more difficult years ...
  32. Imperial Technocrat
    Imperial Technocrat 14 August 2020 18: 05 New
    -2
    Well, right
  33. DominickS
    DominickS 14 August 2020 18: 17 New
    0
    Quote: set of sets
    You can still be a carrier of classified information, but not know it, but only guess. This also happens.
    For example, to know more than what is written in the media and the Internet. Then, too, you will not say too much.

    I don't quite understand you. If you are a carrier of classified information, you must sign the appropriate documents, have a certain form of admission and understand that it is not subject to disclosure. If a person, having a security clearance, only "guesses" that he knows secret information, then it is better for him to change his position or place of work, to a janitor or rigger.
    1. Aag
      Aag 14 August 2020 19: 55 New
      0
      Quote: DominickS
      Quote: set of sets
      You can still be a carrier of classified information, but not know it, but only guess. This also happens.
      For example, to know more than what is written in the media and the Internet. Then, too, you will not say too much.

      I don't quite understand you. If you are a carrier of classified information, you must sign the appropriate documents, have a certain form of admission and understand that it is not subject to disclosure. If a person, having a security clearance, only "guesses" that he knows secret information, then it is better for him to change his position or place of work, to a janitor or rigger.

      Wipers and riggers are also present at sensitive facilities ... I'm not talking about that. But about what you, well, how would it be more correct to say ... idealize the local audience, not all of those who speak here understand WHAT they are talking about. unfortunately this does not only apply to the local resource ...
      1. akarfoxhound
        akarfoxhound 15 August 2020 11: 32 New
        +1
        I agree to all 100%
  34. Graz
    Graz 14 August 2020 19: 20 New
    0
    I wonder how this all fits in with the desire to sell the latest weapons and equipment abroad?
    1. Alien ...
      Alien ... 15 August 2020 01: 03 New
      0
      And with a desire to get to all possible world exhibitions. Answer: no way. I repeat: if you think that there are people sitting there who are different from our utilities or road workers, you are deeply mistaken.
    2. akarfoxhound
      akarfoxhound 15 August 2020 11: 31 New
      0
      It fits well, do not present the given in such a primitive light
  35. Petrol cutter
    Petrol cutter 14 August 2020 19: 24 New
    0
    What a twist!!!
    And the main thing is in photo 22800 in the first position of the third shop of our SZ! .. This is already outdated information!
    How I could smell it in my heart! I even deleted the photo from the avatar.
    Well, thank God now I am closely engaged in "Kometa". I hope you can talk about her? ... recourse
  36. Kapkan
    Kapkan 14 August 2020 19: 33 New
    -2
    I can only say one thing! At last! Hallujah ...
    1. Alien ...
      Alien ... 15 August 2020 01: 05 New
      -1
      Rather, amen ... new state armaments program until 2027 is calculated, emnip. It's time to keep everything secret ...
  37. The comment was deleted.
  38. A. Privalov
    A. Privalov 15 August 2020 07: 35 New
    -1
    This is a very good idea. Legislators have made sure to expand the ranks of traders. Previously, only carriers of state secrets could sell their hot-selling goods, now, carriers of official secrets, whose goods were bought less willingly, will also join them.
  39. akarfoxhound
    akarfoxhound 15 August 2020 11: 29 New
    -1
    It is high time! And they thought for a very long time
  40. musorg
    musorg 15 August 2020 12: 41 New
    0
    And to cut into a quiet one. Who is doing what is unknown. When they pass the same way.
  41. Old26
    Old26 15 August 2020 14: 11 New
    +3
    Quote: tralflot1832
    Only official information is the position of full name. Two hands for.

    I am also "for" putting things in order in this industry, but I'm afraid, Andrei, that absolutely all data related to the armed forces and military equipment will fall under this comb. No wonder they say that the road to hell is paved with good intentions... We can return to those same years of the beginning of the late 70s - early 80s, when everything was secret. 95% of information about Soviet military equipment was confiscated from Western sources (magazines), and reference books like "Jane" were in special storage.

    Quote: Spade
    An ordinary citizen of the USSR knew much less than the intelligence agencies of a potential enemy.
    Who were you defending against?

    Push. Only if earlier they used the Voice of America, Radio Liberty and other voices as a source of information, now they will try to use the Internet for this. This means that a number of very interesting and informative resources will disappear into oblivion ...
    And it will reach insanity. Without this (without extremes) we cannot. I remember listening to the Voice of Israel transmission through the noise in 1971. The program concerned a comparison of the combat characteristics of such vehicles as the MiG-21, Mirage-3 and F-4 Phantom. And it was pleasant to know that in aggregate our MIG was superior to these specified machines. But just to listen was "no way", and suddenly they would say something bad about Soviet technology.
    Or a program about Soviet interceptors on the Voice of America. From there I learned that there was such a TU-128 interceptor. But in the movies it was simply called the "long-range interceptor fighter". And whose - was covered in darkness ...

    Quote: Deck
    Translations of reviews of Soviet military equipment from Jane to the USSR were classified as "ДСП".

    As for the chipboard - hardly. Although anything is possible. Reviews could have been classified ...
    But in the State Public Scientific and Technical Library in Moscow, these reference books (Jane) were in special storage. To use materials from this special storage, I had to bring a letter from your enterprise that you need to work with these materials. Moreover, it was impossible to copy the entire Jane directory. No more than 200 pages. Could have made a film from these pages. I could have received it either in person or by mail. So it is unlikely chipboard ...

    Quote: dauria
    By the way, in Jane's 78th year there was a photo and projection of the MiG-29, which few people have seen alive in the Soviet Union and knew the name.

    But initially the drawings of the MiG-29 and SU-27 were still somewhat far from reality. But you are right. In the reference book "Jane's Fighting Ships", even before the appearance of these ships in the Soviet Navy, there were drawings of a new "cruiser of the Kirov type" (which became a destroyer of Project 956), a drawing of a nuclear cruiser of the "Soviet Union" type (aka Kirov later), mention of the Kremlin-class nuclear-powered aircraft carriers. The most interesting thing is that there was a discussion on the pages of this handbook about how many such ships there will be. They began to count the cities of the USSR, in which the Kremlin was located. EMNIP stopped at 15 laughing

    Quote: Terenin
    I understand one of the two channels is an American TV show, and the other?

    Where is Andryusha Malakhov. Maybe they will leave "Comedy Club" laughing

    Quote: Doliva63
    In the 70s, I actively studied the submarine fleet and submarine theory. Everything was in the open press. Well, there was, of course, no naval payroll for fleets and flotillas, but someone needs it, except for spies? And to saw - yes, it will be easier. And not only to saw. You can just hide a lot. When I wore epaulettes, I also wanted so. In civilian life, I began to think differently.


    I apologize, comrade, but in the 70s, if you were not a cadet of the naval school or you did not have a military department at a civilian university, where biennial officers were trained for the Navy, then you could only know about the submarine fleet in the western ... In any non-specialized literature, our only nuclear submarine that was mentioned was the Leninsky Komsomol submarine. Without specifying the project number and its code. Others were also mentioned, but you could never and nowhere, for example, find out from the open press which project the boats "Leninets", "Ukrainian Komsomolets", "Yaroslavsky Komsomolets" and "Komsomolets Kazakhstan" belong to. There were quite good books on submarines, somewhere I even had a book from the mid-60s called Nuclear Submarines. Very informative, with cuts, but only illuminated western boats. Our fleet was terra incognita. But the same "Jane" painted boats not only by numbers (names) and projects, but also by fleets (to be honest, the submarine flotillas were not indicated, as were divisions). And in our open magazines such as "Sergeant Sergeant", "Military Knowledge", "Marine Sbornik", as well as in "ZVO" there was nothing about our equipment, except for photos and names, such as "Yaroslavl Komsomolets". Even the first name of our domestic boat, as it turned out later, was the western one, we heard from Leonid Ilyich Brezhnev's speech, when he said that the West had the Trident system, and we had the Typhoon.
    Therefore, they knew the entire classification of the Soviet fleet, especially the submarine from the state terminology ...

    Quote: Cyril G ...
    Who needs? Do not make me laugh. I found out what the post-war Navy is after flipping through Jane 76-77 in 1989 and I was 18 years old. I was given just to support it in my hands .... Of course, there were no books on the modern fleet

    There have already been, Cyril, although not in huge editions. But in the early 80s - yes, it was not yet. Maximum - GDR paperbacks related to the navy, but with Western terminology

    Quote: set of sets
    Everything will be the same, but there will be less chatter, so as not to blurt out too much.

    Those who had high forms of admission about their former work and after a quarter of a century do not say anything. Knowing full well where that "red line" is, but if you start to classify it now, it will no longer be clear where that "line" should not be crossed. For example, take it and tell someone that my nephew ended up serving in a unit located in city X - whether I will cross that line or not. I'm afraid that total classification will lead to insanity ...
    1. Cyril G ...
      Cyril G ... 16 August 2020 10: 09 New
      0
      Our fleet was terra incognita. But the same "Jane" painted boats not only by numbers (names) and projects, but also by fleets (to be honest, submarine flotillas were not indicated, as were divisions). And in our open magazines such as "Sergeant Sergeant", "Military Knowledge", "Marine Sbornik", as well as in "ZVO" there was nothing about our equipment, except for photos and names, such as "Yaroslavl Komsomolets".

      That's right ...

      There have already been, Cyril, although not in huge editions.

      This is what, in 1989 there was definitely nothing. Pavlov was published in 1991
  42. Alexander S.
    Alexander S. 15 August 2020 15: 46 New
    -1
    The secrecy will really help save information from leaking into the hands of foreign agents. completely for. And in general, any criticism of the army should also be punished. Otherwise they are good and honest.
  43. Old26
    Old26 15 August 2020 18: 46 New
    +3
    Quote: Alexander S.
    The secrecy will really help save information from leaking into the hands of foreign agents. completely for. And in general, any criticism of the army should also be punished. Otherwise they are good and honest.

    Specific classification of parts and assemblies of weapons systems is still there. But what is being proposed now is to make the classification total. So that no one can ever learn something. But even in Soviet times, the classification was sometimes rather stupid.
    Let me give you an example. In the USSR, work has begun on the creation of a reusable spacecraft. The interested organizations were given a list of data on the projected ship with the "Secret" stamp. Among the data really necessary for the classification, such as the type of engine, fuel, thrust, and so on, were completely stupid. Name and location of landing airfields. The West immediately spoke in open magazines about which airfields were preparing for the landing of the Soviet shuttle ...
  44. Bogatyrev
    Bogatyrev 16 August 2020 00: 12 New
    +1
    Such a measure will not lead to anything good.
    Closing public comment on unclassified topics will only lead to increased corruption under the pretext of secrecy. It will not give any other effect.
    1. Cyril G ...
      Cyril G ... 16 August 2020 15: 04 New
      0
      Quote: Bogatyrev
      Closing public comment on unclassified topics will only lead to increased corruption under the pretext of secrecy. It will not give any other effect.


      Quite right. The result is pretty predictable
  45. Zomanus
    Zomanus 16 August 2020 09: 45 New
    0
    And what's the point of keeping everything secret? Now everything is bought if desired.
    The fools will start secreting everything again ... And then we will not know ours about the new technology.
  46. xomaNN
    xomaNN 16 August 2020 11: 35 New
    0
    During all my work in various offices of the military-industrial complex of the USSR, it was always logical and correct. And only after the hump-collapse of everything in a row, new-comers-dilettantes broke this mechanism too.

    From a related one: remember the nonsense of the KGB Minister Bakatin of the times of hump, who gave the United States a scheme of innovative bookmarks in the construction of the building of the new Yankee embassy in Moscow! He expected a symmetrical gift. An eccentric with the letter "M" negative
  47. lopuhan2006
    lopuhan2006 16 August 2020 14: 08 New
    +1
    Those. now compare what is the difference between the Su-30 and the Su-27SM and can we go to the bunk? Doesn't it smell like censorship? Thanks to the public, 380 corvettes were revived, and then they drank and drank on the sly ...
    1. Cyril G ...
      Cyril G ... 16 August 2020 15: 11 New
      0
      Quote: lopuhan2006
      Doesn't it smell like censorship? Thanks to the public, 380 corvettes were revived, and then they drank and drank on the sly ...


      Quite right. And such cadavers will give birth !!!! They were given birth safely in Soviet times.
  48. Old26
    Old26 16 August 2020 14: 14 New
    +2
    Quote: Cyril G ...
    This is what, in 1989 there was definitely nothing. Pavlov was published in 1991

    Kirill! Now it is difficult to say, to be honest I don’t remember, but there was one reference book on the fleet of about 88-89 publication. I saw one of my acquaintances at one time (unfortunately, I will repeat neither the author nor the name), but alas, I failed to reshoot, I did not have time, I put everything off "for later." A friend in the early 90s left for another world.
    The book "Ships and Ships of the USSR Navy (until 1945)" was published in 1988 (by S. Berezhnoy). Serious edition, like his other books - "Trophies and Reparations of the Soviet Fleet"
    Pavlov published 5 EMNIP reference books on the Soviet fleet. The very first came out in 1991, but there were no names of our projects there yet. In fact, it was a simplified Russified edition of Jaina. Then came the reference books in 1992, 1994, 1996 and 1997. Then he sent books by series (EMNIP so-called "Blue Series". True, I lost contacts with Alexander Sergeevich in the late 90s, as they say after his move from Yakutsk.
    1. Cyril G ...
      Cyril G ... 16 August 2020 15: 10 New
      0
      Quote: Old26
      The very first came out in 1991, but there were no names of our projects there yet. In fact, it was a simplified Russified edition of Jaina.

      Quite right. It was the first reference / military-technical book on the post-war USSR fleet. In 1988, nothing happened and was not possible by definition - but the fundamental work - Kuzin V. P., Nikolsky V. I. The USSR Navy, 1945-1991: The history of the post-war USSR Navy and the possible appearance of the Russian fleet: [Il. encycl.] / V.P. Kuzin and V.I. Nikolsky. - SPb .: Historical Marine Society, 1996. - 614 p .: ill .; 27 cm. - Bibliography: p. 597-601
      It was published already in 1996. The book is clearly relevant to this day.
  49. Old26
    Old26 16 August 2020 15: 48 New
    0
    Quote: Cyril G ...
    but the fundamental work - Kuzin V.P., Nikolsky V.I.

    Yes, this is a fundamental work, but what I saw and wrote about is more likely not even a reference book, but a description of submarines. Not everyone had our project numbers (or rather, there were very few of them), there was no breakdown by numbers and types, like Pavlov's. But this was the first swallow. I still reproach myself for not reshooting her, but alas, it was just over a quarter of a century ago.