Military Review

Growing up time in Belarus. Referendum needed

173

Protests in Belarus have taken on some kind of chaotic form. At night, security officials and radicals go hunting for each other. Moreover, even this hunt does not look really frightening. The lawlessness caused by the employees of the Ministry of Internal Affairs, and there is no other way to characterize quite a few shots of beating up really random people, played a role. The inhabitants are intimidated, the evening Minsk has become depopulated.


During the day, "women in white" take to the streets. They stand beautifully along the highways and wave flowers. Why are they worth? And no one really will tell you why. Exactly as none of the radicals will say why he went out into the street and gets into a fight with the riot police. These stories of stolen votes that would have played any role in the elections are unconvincing.

"Luca, go away!" Interestingly, with what joy should he leave? Does anyone doubt his victory in the elections? I'm not talking about the number of votes, but about the fact that the majority of the people elected him. The timid voices of those who are trying to raise the issue on the topic "the majority were against" are silenced by the protesters themselves. What's next?

Probably, what I will say now will be offensive for the Belarusians. And nothing further ... Absolutely nothing. There will be sacred sacrifices or not, it doesn't matter. There will be strikes or not, it doesn't matter. Women will continue to breathe exhaust gases on the avenues or move to parks, it doesn't matter. Even "night wars" are not important. Just because it's all just a game.

It's a shame that such an intelligent people came out to play with death or freedom. Let's remember how play differs from work? I understand, the question is childish, but still. What is important when doing the job? Result! What is important in the game? Process! The game teaches work, instills the skills necessary for work. What did we see in the protest videos? Besides the protests themselves, of course?

Two by two! The fact that Lukashenka won the election in accordance with the Constitution of Belarus is a fact. He won regardless of our attitude towards him and the attitude of the citizens of Belarus. Even the most stubborn oppositionists do not deny this. Yes, he used the resource of power, yes, he removed his competitors, yes, he deprived voters of the right to choose. But the elections took place! People came to the sites and chose! So there was a choice for these people!

This means that the violent removal of Lukashenko will legally be a coup d'etat! A group of protesters forcibly replaces the president chosen by the majority of the people! And then it is understandable why the leadership of the Ministry of Internal Affairs applies tough measures to suppress the actions of the protesters. The words of the Minister of Internal Affairs' apology for the "inconvenience" of illegal detentions are understandable. The good old saying from the times of Yezhov's reign: when they cut wood, chips fly.

At the same time, hatred of Lukashenka among the people is growing rapidly. The country is small. Detention and bullying of detainees in pre-trial detention centers are quickly becoming the subject of conversation in every kitchen. Is there a way out in this situation?

Let's consider a simple Belarusian family. Hypothetically, of course. With a high degree of probability, I would say. So, grandfather, father and grandson are at the table. Grandfather, a Soviet man, for whom a break with Russia is inconceivable, is unambiguously for the republic's joining the Russian Federation.

The father, although born in the USSR, actually lived his entire adult life after the collapse of the Union. Visited the Baltic "extinctions", in Russia, in the Ukraine. As an accomplished person, he believes that Belarus should be a union state for Russia. Its own small country, which successfully lives on the sale of its goods to the huge market of the Russian Federation, on transit, on tourism and so on.

Grandson. Born and raised during the era of Lukashenka's rule. For him, the USSR is as distant as, for example, the Roman Empire or Ancient Greece. Russia? And what is Russia to him? How is it different from the Baltics, where he goes for the weekend with his girlfriend? Russia's only advantage is its open border. But a friend from Lithuania or Latvia also has an open border. But to many countries. It turns out that life in Lithuanian is better. Freer ...

Note that in this purely hypothetical family, I did not touch on economic issues at all. Simply because a person remembers about the economy only when the economy remembers about a person. Remember the Ukrainians of 2014? Not “Maydauns”, but ordinary, normal Ukrainians who went to work when tires were burned on the Maidan. Someone then thought that in 5 years it was possible to destroy huge concerns, destroy factories, practically kill the entire economy of the country?

This family comes out to protest. In full force. Simply because this power got everyone. So what? What do they want? Why did they come out to risk their health, and maybe their lives? What is the purpose of the protests?

This is exactly what we see today in Belarus! That is why I call this protest a game. We protest against all that is bad and speak for all that is good. It was like that already. And not far from Minsk. In Kiev. Or someone might say that the Ukrainians went out to make their state the poorest country in Europe?

Is there a way out of this impasse? Is there an idea that can unite grandfather, father and grandson? Maybe there is. But what she is, only they have to decide. Only Belarusians. In short, a referendum is needed on where the country wants to go. Does she want to become part of Russia? Does she want to maintain independence and become part of the Union State? Or is it necessary to turn towards the West?

It's a shame to look at people who don't even understand why they are being beaten. It is a shame to look at the security officials, who are horrified at orders to beat everyone in a row - just beat them so that it would be discouraging to protest. It's a shame and a pity. But, dear and beloved Belarusians, the time for sitting on two chairs is over. The time of the “wise father of the entire Belarusian people” is over. You have matured! Belarus has matured! The time has come to decide your future destiny on your own.

I understand it's scary. If you decide for yourself, then you are responsible for everything yourself too. But the time has come. A national referendum is urgently needed, which would determine the further path of the country's development in the coming years, decades, and maybe centuries.

Author:
Photos used:
Hiqoca, Homoatrox, commons.wikimedia.org
173 comments
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  1. Platon
    Platon 15 August 2020 05: 40 New
    29
    The fact that Lukashenka won the election in accordance with the Constitution of Belarus is a fact.

    For Belarusians, this is just not a fact. Rather, the fact that he lost these elections. And what to do and where to go - the protesters really do not know. In Belarus, there has always been a paid pro-Western opposition, albeit very few. And the pro-Russian opposition has always been banned. When people were imprisoned here, the Kremlin said that this was an internal matter. Now, if Lukashenka is thrown off by the crowd, then the first will come to power and without any referendum will turn to the West.
    1. Kisa
      Kisa 15 August 2020 06: 56 New
      +9
      now it doesn't really matter who won there. most likely he even won with a high probability. but after three days of this bestial obscurantism, he flushed his victory down the toilet.
      if people are beaten like cattle, they cease to perceive the rational.
      on Sunday should be decided. if indeed the whole Minsk will come out, then a ticket to Rostov will only help.
      1. Pereira
        Pereira 15 August 2020 10: 06 New
        16
        Luca won the numbers. He lost the souls of people irrevocably.
        1. dSK
          dSK 15 August 2020 11: 00 New
          10
          Alyaksandr Ryhoravich Lukashenka (Belarusian) has his butt falling between two chairs.
          Reaping the benefits of his multi-vector policy.
          1. Fan-fan
            Fan-fan 15 August 2020 11: 23 New
            11
            In my opinion, Luca is a political corpse.
            1. dSK
              dSK 15 August 2020 11: 54 New
              +1
              "Don't frighten us with NATO!" - Yes, NATO members are more than serious opponents, they have already "devoured" more than one president bully .
              Unfortunately, Russia loses after the Baltic states, Georgia, Armenia and Belarus - the next, the last republic of the former USSR in the southwest direction.
              1. Tatyana
                Tatyana 16 August 2020 06: 46 New
                -4
                During the day, "women in white" take to the streets. They stand beautifully along the highways and wave flowers. Why are they worth? And no one really will tell you why. Exactly as none of the radicals will say why he went out into the street and gets into a fight with riot police.

                Why are they worth? The instigators-activists are definitely worth the payment. The more an agitator-activist brings people with him, but not less than a certain number, the more money he will earn according to the principle of a network system of agitation and wages. And there, as in business, whoever has more abilities to manipulate people will receive more money and career preferences later.
                Therefore, those who simply earn money, but cannot admit it, gather, and those who, by deception and persuasion, simply went out to stand - with nothing to do - for the company.
              2. Pilat2009
                Pilat2009 17 August 2020 08: 43 New
                0
                Quote: dsk
                "Don't frighten us with NATO!" - Yes, NATO members are more than serious opponents, they have already "devoured" more than one president bully .
                Unfortunately, Russia loses after the Baltic states, Georgia, Armenia and Belarus - the next, the last republic of the former USSR in the southwest direction.

                Because you can't buy friendship with credits alone. You can buy it ... ku and she will do what you say to you. The same thing with Armenia
              3. Sotskiy
                Sotskiy 17 August 2020 15: 53 New
                +1
                Quote: dsk
                Unfortunately, Russia loses after the Baltic states, Georgia, Armenia and Belarus - the next, the last republic of the former USSR in the southwest direction.

                Russia lost these republics, or rather surrendered to the West, when it declared its independence from these very republics by a declaration on June 12, 1990 at the 1st Congress of People's Deputies of the RSFSR.
                Now the Belarusians have a choice without a choice, with which sharks of capitalism "to be friends" further, Russian or European, which differ little from each other.
                The events in Belarus look like another redistribution of a tasty morsel of former Soviet property in favor of a stronger player of the same capitalist system. Who will lose? Yes, as always, who is the first to "blink".
      2. Terrible
        Terrible GMO 15 August 2020 13: 58 New
        +9
        Quote: kitty
        most likely he even won with a high probability.

        It just took ...
        1) Arrest or force the most popular candidates (Babariko, Tikhanovsky, Tsepkalo) to flee the country.
        2) Wipe yourself with the laws of the Republic of Belarus and throw citizens' signatures for these candidates in the trash heap. The AG has an error in signature lists of 0.089%, while Babariko and Tsepkalo's 450 signatures were rejected by whole districts?
        3) To prevent Babariko from taking part in the elections, which violates Belarusian laws. He is not convicted, which means he had the right to continue the race.
        4) Completely deprive the remaining candidates of the opportunity for adequate campaigning. Allocate 6 sites to Minsk on the very outskirts of the city, in the middle of swamps? Leave one or two points in other cities?
        5) Build obstacles to campaigning even on these pitiful stubs of territory. A "construction boom" began in the country, and every site was suddenly dug up, tiles were rearranged, scenes were dismantled. Occupy all venues for concerts for the days of the railway troops and other events.
        6) Completely (except for two appeals on TV for 30 minutes and 2 on the radio) not to be admitted to the national media.
        7) Intimidate people with arrests, militants, etc.
        8) Do not admit ANYONE from the outside into the election commissions. All their trusted and experienced people are from pro-government organizations.
        9) To prevent the majority of observers not from the pro-government structures. And those who were not allowed to be expelled from the polling stations, of course, were not allowed to count the votes and suddenly the number of observers was limited to 5. We have coronavirus at the polling stations. But at free concerts with growing up. performers and elsewhere are not.
        10) Make the most of the admin. resource for early voting and massive overstatement of turnout. Up to 40 and 50% ahead of schedule? Stuffs were literally everywhere.
        11) Reject all citizens' initiatives for transparent vote counting and voting.
        12) Pursuit of all alternative methods of counting votes. Which led to the fact that out of fear that they would take photos of the ballots, they made the booths as open as possible.
        13) Not posted protocols, excess turnout at polling stations with stuffing, removal of members of OMONOM commissions with ballots, a huge amount of leaked data on direct rewriting of the result even from members of the commissions.
        And you can still go on for a long time and even in these conditions HE LOST. I drew figures, but they have nothing to do with reality.
        1. tandem
          tandem 15 August 2020 19: 43 New
          +1
          that's exactly what it was
        2. FOBOSS
          FOBOSS 17 August 2020 20: 31 New
          +1
          Mega +++++, as Belarus, I will subscribe to every word.
          If, according to polls, he had 76% why did they tape the windows with paper at polling stations in schools from whose observers were kicked out of school?
          We may not have any protest leaders with the exception of Kolesnikova, but I think people like former Prime Minister Rumas will be able to run the country. By the way, he supported the protest, albeit indirectly.
      3. tandem
        tandem 15 August 2020 19: 40 New
        +2
        Lukashenka won only thanks to election fraud. Here's a fact. They just threw out unwanted ballots and put in the ones they need
        1. Lara Croft
          Lara Croft 16 August 2020 17: 43 New
          -1
          Quote: tandem
          Lukashenka won only thanks to election fraud. Here's a fact. They just threw out unwanted ballots and put in the ones they need

          you probably stood next to the urns ...
          1. tandem
            tandem 16 August 2020 18: 09 New
            0
            there are testimonies of members of election commissions, there is the Voice platform. Some of the election commissions counted the votes honestly. The numbers do not converge. Besides, if 80% of the votes were for the bow, why were those few independent observers who managed to get through there expelled from the polling stations? Why were independent polls and exit pools banned? An honest man has nothing to hide
            1. Lara Croft
              Lara Croft 16 August 2020 18: 54 New
              0
              Quote: tandem
              there are testimonies of members of election commissions, there is the Voice platform. Some of the election commissions counted the votes honestly. The numbers do not converge.

              Do not agree so much that Tikhonovskaya should win? The procedure for challenging the vote is in the Belarusian legislation ... and then they immediately began to make a mess during working hours and / or at night ... belay
              Why were independent polls and exit pools banned?

              A reference can be made to the normative act that was banned? fellow
              An honest man has nothing to hide

              Old man is honest, the opposite has not been proven ... laughing
              1. Pilat2009
                Pilat2009 17 August 2020 08: 49 New
                +1
                Quote: Lara Croft
                Quote: tandem
                there are testimonies of members of election commissions, there is the Voice platform. Some of the election commissions counted the votes honestly. The numbers do not converge.

                Do not agree so much that Tikhonovskaya should win? The procedure for challenging the vote is in the Belarusian legislation ... and then they immediately began to make a mess during working hours and / or at night ... belay
                Why were independent polls and exit pools banned?

                A reference can be made to the normative act that was banned? fellow
                An honest man has nothing to hide

                Old man is honest, the opposite has not been proven ... laughing

                I don't think that if the workers voted for Luka, they would then go on strikes.
                1. Lara Croft
                  Lara Croft 17 August 2020 22: 38 New
                  +1
                  Quote: Pilat2009
                  Quote: Lara Croft
                  Quote: tandem
                  there are testimonies of members of election commissions, there is the Voice platform. Some of the election commissions counted the votes honestly. The numbers do not converge.

                  Do not agree so much that Tikhonovskaya should win? The procedure for challenging the vote is in the Belarusian legislation ... and then they immediately began to make a mess during working hours and / or at night ... belay
                  Why were independent polls and exit pools banned?

                  A reference can be made to the normative act that was banned? fellow
                  An honest man has nothing to hide

                  Old man is honest, the opposite has not been proven ... laughing

                  I don't think that if the workers voted for Luka, they would then go on strikes.

                  It is possible that everyone voted for Tikhanovskaya ...
                  Poroshenko also promised the workforce of YUZHMASH, orders from NASA ...
                  But don't worry, time will put everything in its place, as it will determine the further fate of the labor collectives of MZKT, MTZ, MAZ, BelAZ, etc.
          2. FOBOSS
            FOBOSS 17 August 2020 20: 34 New
            0
            If for Tikhanovskaya 10% where did the millions of dissenters come from across the country? And how many more are left at home. Like me
            1. Blackvoid
              Blackvoid 21 August 2020 14: 40 New
              -1
              .... yeah, say billions more)
      4. Lara Croft
        Lara Croft 16 August 2020 17: 41 New
        0
        Quote: kitty
        if people are beaten like cattle, they cease to perceive the rational.

        In Kiev, in 2014, "people" beat and fired at the unarmed Berkut, as a result, there was a civil war in Ukraine, and the Berkut was found guilty of all sins and disbanded ...
        The Minsk OMON does not want to repeat the mistakes of the "Berkut" in Kiev in 2014, however, no one guarantees against shooting on both sides by agents of the West ... unknown snipers were always present at all rallies in the vastness of the late USSR and CIS countries ...
        In essence, it depends on the Belarusian OMON whether Belarus will be a Russophobic country ruled by the West or not ...
        It was necessary to hold a rally before the elections ... when people were imprisoned ...
        1. Kisa
          Kisa 16 August 2020 17: 54 New
          0
          Lara, I read you heard.
          you are very late with voicing thoughts. the snowball is rolling.
          the whole fight right now on the first news)))
          1. Lara Croft
            Lara Croft 16 August 2020 18: 47 New
            +1
            Quote: kitty
            you are very late with voicing thoughts. the snowball is rolling.

            I am simultaneously watching the film "Kill the Dragon" (I advise you to watch) ...
      5. DymOk_v_dYmke
        DymOk_v_dYmke 17 August 2020 03: 14 New
        +1
        Quote: kitty
        if people are beaten like cattle, they cease to perceive the rational

        They cease to perceive the rational before they go to demonstrate their inability to answer questions about goals and ways with anything other than bestial mooing.

        The author did not consider the most difficult option:
        Grandfather, a Soviet man for whom a break with Russia is inconceivable,
        ,
        Grandson. Born and raised during the era of Lukashenka's rule. For him, the USSR is ... far away, ... Russia? And what is Russia to him? How is it different from the Baltics, where he goes for the weekend with his girlfriend?

        и
        The father, although born in the USSR, actually lived his entire adult life after the collapse of the Union. Visited the Baltic "extinctions", in Russia, in Ukraine.
        ,
        moreover, his father served all his life in law enforcement agencies, such as riot police, continues to serve in them and vividly remembers
        the fate of the Kiev golden eagle.
        1. Cherry Nine
          Cherry Nine 17 August 2020 08: 45 New
          +4
          Quote: DymOk_v_dYmke
          moreover, his father served all his life in law enforcement agencies, such as riot police, continues to serve in them and vividly remembers
          the fate of the Kiev golden eagle.

          You are wrong three times.

          Firstly, riot police in Belarus 1.5 thousand snouts, + Almaz, Alpha, about 2 thousand of them all. There are many ordinary cops, but they are far from being involved in this movement everywhere. So the average Belarusian will not be a riot policeman.

          Secondly, there was some legal uncertainty in Kiev. Yanukovych, whatever you say, was really alive and legitimate, so that the maximum was about obviously criminal orders and excesses of the executors. In Belarus, the calico is different: former President Lukashenko staged an armed rebellion, which is accompanied by the murder of citizens.

          And thirdly, in the Criminal Code of the Republic of Belarus, this beauty is described by Article 357.3. Shooting. If Tikhanovskaya had forgotten about this article (and the elected President of the Republic of Belarus should have reminded the rebels about it long ago, you see, the greyhounds would have diminished sharply), then her husband, who knows the Belarusian cops directly, remembers her exactly.

          So no, the fate of the Berkut does not shine for them. Russia will gladly host them all. And who does not reach - it is his own fault.
          1. Liam
            Liam 17 August 2020 08: 57 New
            0
            Quote: Cherry Nine
            And who does not reach it is his own fault


            https://novayagazeta.ru/articles/2020/08/15/86681-karatel-po-vyzovu
            1. Cherry Nine
              Cherry Nine 17 August 2020 10: 16 New
              +2
              I saw it.

              You understand that such personnel are not scattered around. Kusyuk is already in command, and this one will find work to his liking, I have no doubt.

              As a human being, it is insulting, but the lives of Belarusians are more important than revenge.
              1. Liam
                Liam 17 August 2020 10: 46 New
                0
                Lukashenka's chances were only for a blitzkrieg. To crush everything in the first 2-3 days. That is why ostentatious cruelty. Because the "usual" mentura for the most part and the guys from the BB and especially the army will never go to outright mass lawlessness. Only those 1,5 thousand riot police, in which such a specific contingent is selected, which are tied up with such deeds and in "peace" time are not engaged in law enforcement activities. But for more than 2-3 days they can not stand it just physically, they are minuscule in the sense of the number, and the places of confinement, are not rubber, 2 / 3 of the detainees at once clog all available places at once and there is no point in detaining any more, because there is nowhere to keep. And when they do not detain the number of protesters, an avalanche increases. And then collapse occurs.
                So from about Tuesday Lukashenka entered the phase of agony and now he and the entourage and these noble gentlemen from the OMON are busy with the logistics of "leveling the front line"
                1. Cherry Nine
                  Cherry Nine 17 August 2020 11: 38 New
                  +2
                  Quote: Liam
                  So from about Tuesday Lukashenka entered a phase of agony and now

                  Unfortunately no. The worst thing you can do now is lie to yourself that the cockroach has lost. Now he has won. He sits in the palace and commands, and his opponents are either in prison or in exile.

                  This has long been forgotten, but people never elect a head of state. His always chooses the army and only army. Since the army has the strength, one infantry squad with a machine gun and several RPGs will easily disperse an OMON regiment.

                  Under normal circumstances, the army accepts the people's choice (or the rule of law, as with Trump). Sometimes he corrects how many times he has been in Turkey. The revolution in Armenia won at the moment when the army said that it would not shoot at the people.

                  Until the army announced that it would not follow Luke's orders, he is the president.

                  Quote: Liam
                  .And then the crash comes

                  Collapse occurs when a shovel handle is brought. A "peaceful protest" can wander about in the heat until you get bored, see Khabarovsk.

                  You shouldn't deceive yourself about strikes either. If you are waiting for Luke and his eagles to expire their mortgage, you will not wait.
                  1. Liam
                    Liam 17 August 2020 12: 17 New
                    -1
                    The army has never played such an important political role in the USSR and the post-Soviet republics.
                    The problem of the dictator is that much, if not everything, rests on the charisma and image of a strong person, and now he looks pitiful, confused and ingratiating. Political cadaveric spots have gone on the body.
                    Quote: Cherry Nine
                    He sits in the palace and commands

                    True, no one obeys. Even the workers of the plant could not force them to return for the machines.
                    It's a thankless job, but I think it's a few weeks maximum
                    1. Cherry Nine
                      Cherry Nine 17 August 2020 12: 27 New
                      +2
                      Quote: Liam
                      Political cadaveric spots have gone on the body.

                      Now is not the time for lyrics.
                      Quote: Liam
                      In the USSR and the post-Soviet republics, the army has never played such an important political role.

                      She joined the rebels when they won. In 91 it was the Armed Forces of the RSFSR, in 93 Yeltsin. Some regions and political parties were behind the Maidan.
                      The crowd does not win never... The crowd is not a political actor.
                      There is only a crowd in Minsk, with all my admiration for the Belarusian cats.
                      Quote: Liam
                      It's a thankless job, but I think it's a few weeks maximum

                      Wait and see. While time is working for him. Hard workers will obviously run out of money faster. When it comes to dictatorship, a strike is an army joke, when the spirit bangs its head against the fist of the grandfather.
                      1. Liam
                        Liam 17 August 2020 12: 31 New
                        0
                        Negation.
                        Anger.
                        Bargain... (We are now about the beginning of this phase ..if you want reforms, tell me which ones ... I am ready to share powers .. but no new elections)
                        Depression.
                        Adoption.
                      2. Liam
                        Liam 17 August 2020 12: 36 New
                        -1
                        Quote: Cherry Nine
                        Crowd

                        Do you seriously think that now there is only a crowd?
                        Believe me, at least since Tuesday (when it became clear that the blitzkrieg had failed) there is not only a crowd and negotiations are going on in all directions, including himself and his immediate entourage. Forms, conditions and name of the transit of power in the period before the new elections are being determined. less agree on these points the inevitable will happen
                      3. Cherry Nine
                        Cherry Nine 17 August 2020 12: 51 New
                        +1
                        Lord, have you already reached conspiracy?

                        What other negotiations? With whom? With a zits-president? A wizard flew in in a black NATO helicopter? I strongly doubt it.

                        For negotiations on surrender, you just need a headquarters in Reims, where you need to come. Maidan will come down. Where is he? In the chat, a telegram to talk to the people?
                        Quote: Liam
                        Bargain. (We are now approximately at the beginning of this phase ... if you want reforms, tell me which ones ... ready to share powers ... but no new elections)

                        Lukashenka said clearly, because he is an honest person. Alive - I will not leave. So stop grinding your tongue.
                      4. Liam
                        Liam 17 August 2020 12: 56 New
                        -1
                        Quote: Cherry Nine
                        Jesus

                        )))


                        Who else if not He ...

                        Quote: Cherry Nine
                        Alive - I will not leave

                        Digs out Didov's Berdanka)
                      5. Cherry Nine
                        Cherry Nine 17 August 2020 13: 00 New
                        +1
                        He has long been dug up, and not one Berdanka. Peaceful protest against machine guns, yes.
                      6. Liam
                        Liam 17 August 2020 13: 08 New
                        -2
                        You are well versed in the analysis of the phases of destruction ... With the creative phase-problem)
                        It is naive to think that a country in Europe and the EU is on fire for the 10th day already, the USA, Russia, Poland, the Baltic States and Ukraine are watching this action-adventure movie on TV and are doing nothing, it is naive. Everyone paused until Tuesday Wednesday to understand the scale and depth of the protests. When we realized that this time the people took it seriously, and not like in the past, they waved and scattered) - the process began at an adult level
                      7. Cherry Nine
                        Cherry Nine 17 August 2020 13: 30 New
                        +1
                        Quote: Liam
                        action adventure on TV and do nothing - naive

                        They do not care at all, except for P. Yes and P is not worried about Belarusians here.
                        Quote: Liam
                        the process started at an adult level

                        Yes, yes, I heard. Sanctions against officials.

                        I also heard that there were some sanctions against the highly respected Ramzan Akhmatovich Kadyrov. He has not yet fled to Rostov, has he?

                        You seem to have fallen from the sky. How many years has a country of the aggressive NATO bloc been dragging along its own ships with the corpses of 200 of its own citizens, do you remember? And here, because of the three dead Belarusians right now, the hair is running back.

                        As I said, the most dangerous thing now is to lie to yourself about your victory.
                      8. Liam
                        Liam 17 August 2020 19: 58 New
                        -1
                        )))
                        You are making the same mistake as the turbopatriots. Lukashenka is overthrown not by the EU with sanctions (which he doesn't give a damn about now, not to fat), but his own people.
                        PySy. Such things are not done in a week. Persians ruled for 26 years, there all structures from the first minister to the last clerk in the village council are his protégés. And you want to bring down such a structure in a couple of days. In Georgia it lasted 3 weeks, both Ukrainian maidans were 2 months. Only in Armenia he surrendered quickly - 11 days.
                      9. Cherry Nine
                        Cherry Nine 17 August 2020 20: 15 New
                        +1
                        Quote: Liam
                        Lukashenka is overthrown not by the EU with sanctions (on which he doesn't give a damn now, not to fat), but his own people.

                        And you, following the majority of the forum participants, started talking in slogans.

                        What does "overthrow" mean? What exactly should happen for Lukashenka to end up in Rostov / cell / grave? Who exactly should do this?

                        Peaceful protest?
                      10. Liam
                        Liam 17 August 2020 20: 26 New
                        0
                        Naturally, this peaceful protest with strikes brings billions of dollars in losses to the entire ochlocracy around Lukashehko (or do you think that he is surrounded by ideological ascetics without money?) And, at the same time, to all counterparties abroad, apart from the fact that the economy is bankrupt, which is supported only by foreign financial support. A month of such losses and the Persian will have nothing to pay salaries with. After visas, the blocking of foreign accounts of the whole environment looms. By the way. Or do you think they hide money under the mattress. It was not for nothing that he fussed after the start of the strikes. Before that, he portrayed indifference. And right now he runs around all checkpoints. factories.
                        The old man is poured very quickly
                      11. Cherry Nine
                        Cherry Nine 17 August 2020 20: 36 New
                        +2
                        Quote: Liam
                        A month of such losses and the Persian will have nothing to pay salaries with

                        Two thousand punishers?
                        Quote: Liam
                        Or do you think they hide money under the mattress

                        Who was there last time blocked accounts, Maduro, I think?
                        How hungry?
                        Quote: Liam
                        The old man is poured very quickly

                        Did the late Mr. Zakharchenko have a lot of factories working?
                        And when it was "leaked" - did the DPR come very close to democracy? Do you consider a similar result to be a victory of the Belarusian people?
                      12. Liam
                        Liam 17 August 2020 20: 41 New
                        -1
                        Quote: Cherry Nine
                        Two thousand punishers?

                        No, to the hundreds of thousands of civil servants who are the real backbone of the regime, everyone is on strike except them, if they haven't noticed.
                        Quote: Cherry Nine
                        Maduro

                        Quote: Cherry Nine
                        Zakharchenko

                        You write nonsense. Lukashenka and Belarus do not live off the drug trade and are not an unrecognized enclave. Your examples have nothing to do with reality.
                      13. Cherry Nine
                        Cherry Nine 17 August 2020 21: 05 New
                        +2
                        Quote: Liam
                        Everyone is on strike except them, if they haven't noticed

                        You still remember about the strikes of thieves from PECs.

                        Excuse me, if Luka manages to sit out people, then there will be no problems with slaves.

                        Quote: Liam
                        Lukashenka and Belarus do not live off drug trafficking and are not an unrecognized enclave

                        At the expense of the enclave is not so far away, the EU did not recognize Luca.

                        You see how deep you can fall. And you still claim that economic pressure, and even so ridiculous, personal sanctions, in itself will solve the issue? How long did Saddam live under sanctions? Fidel? Kims?
                      14. Liam
                        Liam 17 August 2020 21: 19 New
                        -1
                        Quote: Cherry Nine
                        thieves from PECs

                        These will be in the forefront of kickers when the ice breaks and in government agencies ... A classic of the genre ...turned out to be our father not a father but ...
                        Moreover, one of the first points of transit of power in such cases is the announcement of an amnesty for all those who have not stained themselves with blood and especially grave crimes. Aunties from PECs are not in danger, and most of them will again count votes in new elections and rejoice on cameras that finally they can count honestly.
                        Do not forget that now many thousands of officials, especially those of the middle and lower levels, are looming the prospects for rapid career growth after the upcoming purges of the old apparatus. This is a very powerful incentive for action.
                        Quote: Cherry Nine
                        EU did not recognize Luca.

                        Exactly. Do you know a lot of unrecognized presidents of European sovereign countries? And not only European ones.
                        Quote: Cherry Nine
                        How long did Saddam live under sanctions? Fidel? Kims?

                        These that were just recognized if that.
                        I do not consider Belarusians a people who would agree to live like North Koreans, otherwise nothing of this happens and would not have happened
                      15. Cherry Nine
                        Cherry Nine 17 August 2020 22: 13 New
                        +1
                        Quote: Liam
                        I do not consider Belarusians to be a people who will agree

                        26 years.
                        Quote: Liam
                        Exactly. Do you know a lot of unrecognized presidents of European sovereign countries?

                        I won't count non-European ones, in Europe 7 came to mind, Lukashenka 8th. Maybe he forgot who.
                        Quote: Liam
                        officials, especially middle and lower level, loomed prospects for rapid career growth

                        I don’t recall that middle or lower-level officials, possessed by dreams of career growth, engaged in tyrannicides. Revolutionary terror - I can still believe it.
                        Quote: Liam
                        most of them will again count the votes in the new elections and rejoice on the cameras that they can finally count honestly.

                        If so, then Belarus is over. This is a Moldovan-Ukrainian scenario.

                        All the beauty that we see now is a sense of justice. A great feeling with which you can change a lot.

                        Reforged aunts are NOT fair. All they can do is steal for the new government.
                      16. Liam
                        Liam 18 August 2020 06: 41 New
                        -1
                        Quote: Cherry Nine
                        26 years

                        Lived in concentration camps on balanda made of useful herbs?)
                        Quote: Cherry Nine
                        came to mind 7,

                        Announce the entire list
                        Quote: Cherry Nine
                        tyrannicides

                        God be with you. In such cases, they engage in much more effective sabotage. This breaks down the vertical almost instantly)
                        Quote: Cherry Nine
                        Reforged aunts

                        I have no other people for you
                        The German people of the period 33/45 are the same people who, after 45, elected Adenauer and became the mainstay of European democracy)
                      17. Cherry Nine
                        Cherry Nine 18 August 2020 06: 57 New
                        +1
                        Quote: Liam
                        Lived in concentration camps on balanda made of useful herbs?)

                        Quote: Cherry Nine
                        You see how deep you can fall.

                        Quote: Liam
                        Announce the entire list

                        South Ossetia, Abkhazia, LPR, DPR, PMR, Kosovo, North Cyprus.

                        Just don’t tell me "This is completely different."

                        As you can easily see, 5 out of 7 are great friends of Russia.
                        Quote: Liam
                        In such cases, they engage in much more effective sabotage.

                        Here you are already inclined towards destructiveness. The old power leaves when it appears new government... If there is no new government, then it turns out to be a faild state.
                        Quote: Liam
                        The German people of the period 33/45 are the same people who, after 45, elected Adenauer and became the mainstay of European democracy)

                        And I do not demand to reeducate the Belarusian people. By the way, Adenauer was elected, EMNIP, in 49th, the second chancellor was a non-partisan technocrat from Speer's entourage, the third was a member of the NSDAP from the 33rd year from the Goebbels department, and the fourth was a resistance figure with a party nickname instead of a name.

                        I expect that the new government will focus on the people a little more. Cooperation with Lukashenka's aunts does not go well with the will of the people. And it is combined:
                        1. Prohibition of the Ministry of Internal Affairs. The police should only be municipal.
                        2. The introduction of the American National Guard. Military units of the reserve must form paramilitary structures at the place of residence, keep weapons at home.
                        3. Introduction of an alternative to secret electronic system open voting (in contrast to the Russian experience). Not instead of the secret, but together with the secret.

                        (Although, of course, you need to think carefully about open voting. It is also convenient for a dictatorship).

                        By the way, point 3 is the answer to the question "it is impossible to count the votes." It is possible to organize (without Lukashenko) a nationwide investigative experiment in the form of a nationwide roll-call poll “How did you vote and at what precinct?”, Mainly in electronic form. Where the results differ greatly from the data of the PEC - all the members of the PEC for the bunks.
                      18. Liam
                        Liam 18 August 2020 07: 25 New
                        -1
                        Quote: Cherry Nine
                        how deep you can fall.

                        Leave the DPRK alone. Belarus is a typical post-Soviet autocracy in terms of the level of development of rights and freedoms, which is on a par with the Russian Federation.
                        Quote: Cherry Nine
                        The old power is leaving

                        When it is drained by the state apparatus and the leader of the nation becomes a commander without an army

                        Quote: Cherry Nine
                        the new government will focus on the people a little more

                        My God, what people? deep?)
                        This is the same people who indifferently looked at exactly the same election fraud 5,10 or 15 years ago and at the beatings and arrests of protesters hipsters and creacles I started to move only because my dad was not able to provide economic growth for the last 5 years for known reasons with his tricks. Such is a bizarre echo of economic consequences glorious 14 years old. They have nothing more to expect good things from their father and are looking for another perspective. The refrigerator always wins the TV.

                        Quote: Cherry Nine
                        Where the results differ greatly from the data of the PEC - all members of the PEC are sent to the bunks.

                        And what is the fundamental difference by 20% or 40?). This is just the case when you can't be a little pregnant.
                        Moreover, there were no doubts about registrations at all polling stations, so you will have to send 90% of Belarusian teachers to the bunks if anything happens.
                        What you propose is a civil war. It is not necessary to change the teachers, but the system that makes them count crookedly. And then the same people who were engaged in creativity at the polling stations will count honestly
                      19. Cherry Nine
                        Cherry Nine 18 August 2020 08: 14 New
                        +1
                        Quote: Liam
                        Belarus is a typical post-Soviet autocracy in terms of the level of development of rights and freedoms, which is on a par with the Russian Federation.

                        This series starts with Kazakhstan, the most respectable of the undemocratic countries, and ends with Turkmenistan. So there is enough room for maneuver.
                        Quote: Liam
                        When it is drained by the state apparatus and the leader of the nation becomes a commander without an army

                        You are half right.

                        When there is no army.

                        As long as you can kill people, and they cannot kill you, you definitely have not lost. Sad Bat Tru.
                        Quote: Liam
                        Refrigerator always beats TV

                        And now, unfortunately, you have taken 100% Putin's positions.

                        As far as I know, the Belarusian people do not demand bread and circuses, that is, a sack of potatoes and a free premium in tanks. He demands respect and justice. Yes, it came to him a little late, but it did.

                        And this is very encouraging. For a new nation to emerge, people must unite around ethical maxims. Around the refrigerator nothing but a dull postsock can be built. Poybalts, for example, had such maxims.

                        Therefore, I think that it will be difficult to defeat Luka, but not to screw up the victory is much more difficult.

                        Quote: Liam
                        And what is the fundamental difference by 20% or 40?

                        Do you mean that in criminal proceedings all doubts are interpreted in favor of the accused. 20% can reasonably be explained, 200 not. And there they talked about thousands of percent.

                        Quote: Liam
                        You will have to send 90% of Belarusian teachers to the bunks if Thu

                        You cheat. In the PEC, EMNIP, there are about 5 people, as a rule, a director, head teachers, various supply managers. There are very few teachers. There is no doubt that these people cannot continue to teach children.

                        Yes, on the bunk. By forgiving them, the authorities show that people who falsify protocols are more important to them than robbed voters. Which leaves no doubt about her intentions.

                        Quote: Liam
                        What do you suggest is a civil war

                        It depends on whether to do it before or after. When the power resource of the new government is overwhelming, it will be delukashization.

                        Could this become similar to the activities of the Red Guards? Of course it can. Any decision has its own risks. It is in this context that the question "Do you want to be like in Ukraine (where everyone was forgiven)" has the right to exist. I do not want.
                      20. Liam
                        Liam 18 August 2020 09: 32 New
                        -1
                        Quote: Cherry Nine
                        does not require bread and circuses, that is, a sack of potatoes and a free premium in tanks. He demands respect and justice

                        There is nothing supernatural in this. Georgia, Moldova, Ukraine, Armenia, Bolotnaya, Khabvrovsk are everywhere not according to economic requirements, mainly because of electoral fraud or the choice of the development path, etc.
                        The wave of Arab revolutions is also not for direct economic reasons.
                        But do not confuse cause and effect. In Belarus, they rebelled because of falsification of elections. But it was in the last and before last elections, and the people did not rebel. Although no one had any illusions. And then, too, 80% drew for themselves. The difference is that then the difference between the drawn and the real was not so big. Nobody called Sasha 3%. That is, the real problem is that he has sunk to 3%. And this happened for purely economic reasons. His economic model was at a dead end and there are no prospects. people understand this very well. They know that he cannot get them out of this impasse and must be changed.
                        Quote: Cherry Nine
                        in Ukraine (where everyone was forgiven)?

                        They have always forgiven everyone and not only in Ukraine in such cases. Well, with the exception of the Bolsheviks in the period 17-53, then they cleaned out all the "guilty" according to your recipe.
                        By the way, among the rebels, too, then many will have to be jailed. The same TV workers, mentors, the army, the KGB, state structures from parliament to the village council, the prosecutor's office, courts, management of enterprises. All of them are accomplices of the old regime. Their efforts and connivance have turned out these 26 years. And the rebellious people themselves are also to blame for the fact that these 26 years happened. Why didn't you rebel earlier?) When the previous elections were rigged, when the Constitution was raped. So everyone is to blame if you accept your position
                      21. Cherry Nine
                        Cherry Nine 18 August 2020 14: 51 New
                        +2
                        Quote: Liam
                        But don't confuse cause and effect.

                        Do not. And there is no need to slip into vulgar Marxism.

                        Yes, a good economy in general will be able to smooth out any worries, but a bad one will not. But but economy, people definitely need to spit in the face. Lukashenka did it - from the heart.

                        And the protest did not go along the economic line. It is impossible in such a situation to go to fight with the police in the name of the economic program of the Tikhanovskaya team (is it there?). But for justice - it is possible and necessary.

                        Usually in society, all people understand injustice in different ways. But sometimes there is a moment when the whole country considers the same thing to be fair, and its rulers - the opposite.

                        This is precisely the moment for the very color revolution that TV has been talking about for so long and passionately. When and in what country such a moment will come - God knows. For Belarusians - right now.
                        Quote: Liam
                        So everyone is to blame if you accept your position

                        Yes. And the question of how Belarus came to such a life requires open reflection and acceptance at the national level. In the Russian Federation, for example, this was never done, the consequences of which we see in all areas.

                        Everyone is to blame (whom Lukashenka did not bury in the forest belt). How guilty are all Germans who did not participate in the German resistance.

                        But everyone is to blame in different ways.
                        Quote: Liam
                        They have always forgiven everyone and not only in Ukraine in such cases. Well, with the exception of the Bolsheviks in the period 17-53, then they cleaned out all the "guilty" according to your recipe.

                        But this is already tryndets.

                        1. I did not say a word about bunks for everyone who smeared with cooperation with the regime... I'm talking about specific crimes. For the cops - 357 of the Criminal Code of the Republic of Belarus, mutiny, VMN. For teachers - 192 of the Criminal Code of the Republic of Belarus, violation of the law on elections, up to five years. Yes, the new government can declare amnesty to people who were in a situation of extreme necessity (declare the uprising itself as such a situation), including reprisals against enemies of the people (and not only them), as well as decriminalize those actions that are not a crime (Article 368 Insult to the President of the Republic of Belarus and dozens of other articles). But forging election protocols, I hope, will remain a crime. Naturally, the punishment for him should remain. And to appoint criminals exactly where they showed themselves last time is already a black mark for the new government. It is impossible to explain why here These appointed if they are not going to cheat themselves.

                        If you killed your ex-wife under the old regime - no, you will not be amnestied. Unless your surname is Yermoshin.

                        2. I know you don’t believe, but the system of power turnover was invented so that the new government would investigate the crimes of the old, and not cover them up. And if the authorities are engaged in otmazyvanie old regime after the revolution - then this revolution was stolen and everything was in vain. As in Ukraine.
                      22. Liam
                        Liam 18 August 2020 15: 13 New
                        -1
                        Quote: Cherry Nine
                        But for justice - you can and should

                        People are fighting for Their basic political rights and freedoms. They deserve respect for this. But at the same time, this does not relieve them of responsibility for the fact that they created this situation for themselves. They chose to raise and feed a dragon in their own home, having exchanged 26 years ago. these freedoms that they had (really got it too easily without a fight) for a guaranteed (as it seemed to them) piece of bread from the hands of the state farm bawker.
                        Quote: Cherry Nine
                        Yes

                        Therefore, it is impossible to judge everyone, only those who distinguished themselves especially. Aunties from the PEC did not do anything more or less than everyone else.
                        Quote: Cherry Nine
                        tryndets

                        Articles of this kind can be easily found for all categories.

                        Quote: Cherry Nine
                        the system of turnover of power was invented so that the new government would investigate the crimes of the old, and not cover them up

                        This System was invented so that after the old government there would not be much to investigate, and if there is something that the investigations would begin immediately, and not wait for the change of government. This is a preventive measure as planned.
                      23. Cherry Nine
                        Cherry Nine 18 August 2020 16: 28 New
                        +1
                        Quote: Liam
                        .This preventive measure is intended to be

                        Some kind of crazy logic. How can this be a preventive measure, even if (as it were) the new government conceals the crimes of the old one?
                        Quote: Liam
                        This kind of article can be safely

                        Only if you come up with new ones. On the contrary, I wrote about canceling old ones.
                        Quote: Liam
                        Therefore, it is impossible to judge everyone, only those who distinguished themselves especially. Aunties from the PEC did not do anything more or less than everyone else.

                        PEC aunts did much more almost everyone else... Active participation (in an unconstitutional seizure of power) is not equal to non-interference. It is possible to talk about attracting aunts who drew previous elections, but not about justifying these.
                        Quote: Liam
                        But at the same time, this does not relieve them of the responsibility for the fact that they created this situation for themselves. They chose to raise and nurture a dragon in their own house, exchanging 26 years ago these freedoms that they had (they really got it too easily without a fight) for guaranteed (as it seemed to them) a piece of bread from the hands of the state farm bawler.

                        You are, of course, right. The exchange of freedom for sausage does not lead to anything good, not only Belarusians learned this the hard way.

                        But it is necessary to distinguish, excuse me, between historical and criminal guilt. The original sin of conformism does not give anyone indulgence for any criminal skoda.
  • Civil
    Civil 15 August 2020 15: 30 New
    -3


    Chuck is cool as always)
    1. rich
      rich 17 August 2020 22: 44 New
      0
      Chuck is cool as always)

      Hello Sasha - 0% nicknamed "cockroach". winked
      Yes, to be objective, Chuck Norris himself is more like a cockroach laughing yes
  • Cherry Nine
    Cherry Nine 16 August 2020 03: 11 New
    +4
    Quote: Platon
    And what to do and where to go - the protesters really do not know.

    This is a characteristic feature of authoritarian regimes. They destroy normal opposition. In a normal country, there would be two or more large parties, any of which would have at least some kind of program and proposals on the composition of the government. In the case of Belarus, the opposition has been buried in forest belts for 20 years. Naturally, after the decision on Bulbofuehrer there will be some mess. Let's hope not as radical as in Ukraine.
  • Ramon Merkader
    Ramon Merkader 15 August 2020 05: 57 New
    +1
    Nice article, I liked it, but ...
    Who will announce the referendum? Lukashenko? I don’t think something tells me that my father would prefer to personally determine such things.
    Opposition? Who will give them? Well, if (which I personally doubt), they are toppled, then, as Plato said in his first post: "without any referendum, they will turn to the west," and I agree with him.
    1. domokl
      15 August 2020 06: 09 New
      +3
      Quote: Ramon Merkader
      Who will announce the referendum?

      What options does Lukashenka have? Shit in the direction of Russia, shit in the direction of the EU, shit on his own people. I understand why he did not hold such a referendum. In fact, now he has nothing to show. He did not promise anything to the people. But after such a shake-up, you have to promise. Okay, the boys on the street, and the workers in the factories?
      I think Lukashenka will announce it. Even the result can be assumed with a probability of 80-90 percent. And there, he will pull the rubber again until the next time
      1. dSK
        dSK 15 August 2020 10: 36 New
        0
        What is the referendum about? What formulation does the Author suggest ?? request
        1. Terrible
          Terrible GMO 15 August 2020 14: 01 New
          +2
          Quote: dsk
          What is the referendum about? What formulation does the Author suggest ??

          Express nationwide solidarity and completely throw yourself into the arms of "fraternal" Russia as it was with Crimea. And then, look what the unreasonable wanted, to expel the president falsifying elections and spitting on his people.
        2. Lara Croft
          Lara Croft 16 August 2020 17: 45 New
          +1
          Quote: dsk
          What is the referendum about? What formulation does the Author suggest ?? request

          The author does not offer anything, he is simply against the Old Man ...
    2. tandem
      tandem 15 August 2020 19: 44 New
      +1
      nonsense. Just live and not go anywhere
    3. Pilat2009
      Pilat2009 17 August 2020 08: 52 New
      0
      Quote: Ramon Merkader
      Nice article, I liked it, but ...
      Who will announce the referendum? Lukashenko? I don’t think something tells me that my father would prefer to personally determine such things.
      Opposition? Who will give them? Well, if (which I personally doubt), they are toppled, then, as Plato said in his first post: "without any referendum, they will turn to the west," and I agree with him.

      And if he announces a referendum, who will guarantee that there will be no fraud?
    4. Pavel57
      Pavel57 17 August 2020 14: 36 New
      +1
      Any referendum means Lukashenka's defeat.
  • sergo
    sergo 15 August 2020 06: 28 New
    +6
    The author is apparently a naive child. And the turnout is drawn, and the result. To be convinced of this, it is enough to become a member of the precinct commission. Or the author is working off the Kremlin money.
    1. Evgeny Ivanov_5
      Evgeny Ivanov_5 16 August 2020 10: 04 New
      0
      Well, you are clearly fulfilling Soros's order, hamsters
    2. Mikhail Alexandrov
      Mikhail Alexandrov 16 August 2020 14: 17 New
      -2
      Are you zlotyvki
  • Alex 1970
    Alex 1970 15 August 2020 07: 32 New
    +6
    If Lukashenka announces a referendum now, then against the background of what he has done in the country in recent days, he will sign his own verdict. It is important for him now to knock down the protests and stretch out the time. And there, due to the circumstances, it seems to me there will be no referendum.
    1. Lara Croft
      Lara Croft 16 August 2020 17: 51 New
      -1
      Quote: Alex 1970
      If Lukashenka announces a referendum now, then against the background of what he has done in the country in recent days, he will sign his own verdict.

      On the contrary, he will let the people decide everything for themselves, and if the people decide to go to the West, he will simply declare: “He’s tired and leaves” and thus wash his hands, then there will be nothing to show him, won the choice, but made concessions to the people and called a referendum ...
      And then from Smolensk he will watch how large enterprises of the Republic of Belarus are turning into shopping centers and warehouses ...
      If Yanukovych had announced such a referendum in 2013, then he would not have had to flee to Russia ...
  • Aleksandr1971
    Aleksandr1971 15 August 2020 08: 03 New
    +9
    A referendum is like giving up the official election results, even if they were obviously falsified. And this for Lukashenka will mean the loss of power.

    The only sure way to hold on to power. - This is Tianyanmen Square in 1989 - 1,5 thousand people were killed and subsequent reforms aimed at economic growth. In addition, the bloody defeat will tie the security officials and Lukashenka. After the mass bloodshed, the siloviki will definitely not be able to go over to the side of the opposition and, willy-nilly, will have to support Lukashenka for their own and his end.

    At the same time, successful economic reforms alone are not promising for small Belarus, unlike China. Prospectively, after the defeat of the demonstrators, only the accession to Russia and the transfer of hemorrhoids with protests to the head of the Russian authorities. And the fight against the protesters of Russia nafig is not needed. Even if Russia wishes to come to Belarus, it is only as a savior of the people, and not as a gendarme.

    So for Lukashenka not to suppress the protests and go to talk with the opposition, especially through Western intermediaries, is a quick way to lose power. And suppressing protests in the manner of Beijing in 1989 is to lose power in a bloodier, but slower way. So for Luke, it's zugzwang now. And the reason for this is that because of his policy, over the years, his social base did not grow, but only shrank.
    1. Pilat2009
      Pilat2009 17 August 2020 08: 55 New
      0
      Quote: Aleksandr1971
      A referendum is like giving up the official election results, even if they were obviously falsified. And this for Lukashenka will mean the loss of power.

      The only sure way to hold on to power. - This is Tianyanmen Square in 1989 - 1,5 thousand people were killed and subsequent reforms aimed at economic growth. In addition, the bloody defeat will tie the security officials and Lukashenka. After the mass bloodshed, the siloviki will definitely not be able to go over to the side of the opposition and, willy-nilly, will have to support Lukashenka for their own and his end.

      At the same time, successful economic reforms alone are not promising for small Belarus, unlike China. Prospectively, after the defeat of the demonstrators, only the accession to Russia and the transfer of hemorrhoids with protests to the head of the Russian authorities. And the fight against the protesters of Russia nafig is not needed. Even if Russia wishes to come to Belarus, it is only as a savior of the people, and not as a gendarme.

      So for Lukashenka not to suppress the protests and go to talk with the opposition, especially through Western intermediaries, is a quick way to lose power. And suppressing protests in the manner of Beijing in 1989 is to lose power in a bloodier, but slower way. So for Luke, it's zugzwang now. And the reason for this is that because of his policy, over the years, his social base did not grow, but only shrank.

      You are missing the moment that the troops will not shoot at the people, but will shoot their commanders
  • Uncle Izya
    Uncle Izya 15 August 2020 08: 09 New
    -9
    I think Putin will not go to the next elections, he has a successor, and he needs to pass Lukash, let the Belarusians judge him
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. Aleksandr1971
      Aleksandr1971 15 August 2020 08: 24 New
      -4
      And you cast aside your sympathies and antipathies and think better about which scenario in Belarus will be better for Russia, regardless of how good or bad Putin and Lukashenka are. I don't like these comrades, but I don't want Russia's interests to suffer.

      In my opinion, the loss of Lukashenka's power will mean the transformation of Belarus into a US satellite, will mean the installation of a NATO radar station in Belarus, will mean US control over gas and oil pipelines from Russia to Europe (that is, there will be pipelines closing and a decrease in living standards in Russia). And for the people of Belarus, the transfer of power to the control of the United States and the EEC will mean the closure of industrial enterprises, impoverishment and a massive flight of the population to work in Europe.

      For Russia, the loss of Belarus as an ally will be the same as for the USA the transformation of Canada into a colony of China. The United States, in order to prevent such an option, will go to the unlimited use of all its force.

      Is it better to live in Ukraine after 2014? Not. According to economists, the standard of living in Ukraine fell by at least half. The only thing the Maydauns console themselves with is that they are no longer slaves from Russia. But they are also slaves to the States.

      But I hope that a harsh response will be given to this scenario in Belarus. Russia, in order to prevent the transfer of Belarus to the control of the West, must go to the unlimited use of all its force, up to putting its own existence at risk.
      1. tandem
        tandem 15 August 2020 19: 51 New
        +5
        what are you, dear Russians, restless people. You also need to make enemies of Belarusians ?! Nobody here is against the Russian Federation. Luka is bored to death. And the impoverishment is already there. Half of the country is working
        1. Campanella
          Campanella 15 August 2020 20: 37 New
          -2
          You do not understand a simple thing, the opposition will quickly knock your love for Russia out of you!
          Who feeds her? Tsepkalo said Tikhanovskaya technical president for six months, then elections!
          Is it that the Belarusian people decided so? Turn your head on, Lukashenka is cool, and these will not stand on ceremony with you, they will hire Natsiks, and since then there is no demand from the word at all!
          1. tandem
            tandem 16 August 2020 17: 06 New
            +3
            there are no Natsiks. Tsepkalo is a businessman, Babariko is a banker, Tikhanovskaya is a housewife, just a woman, a technical candidate. Her husband's wife. The husband was closed for nothing. She remained a candidate. Nobody perceived her. It so happened that she became the banner. Her presidency is like a dog's fifth leg. She doesn't even hide it. Throw off the onion and hold real elections in six months. Free. No jails for candidates. As it should.
            onions are cool at the expense of riot police. If you are against, then your head will be beaten off and imprisoned. The sequence may vary.
            what do Belarusians want? Just live and not look for enemies. Do business.
            Look at the onion. Now he has an enemy of the West, then Russia, then the opposition. all around the enemies. He's one good
        2. Evgeny Ivanov_5
          Evgeny Ivanov_5 16 August 2020 10: 10 New
          0
          The tradition is fresh, but it is hard to run. Each pretends to be a friend until the opportunity to kick in the back comes.
      2. Cherry Nine
        Cherry Nine 16 August 2020 03: 26 New
        +1
        Quote: Aleksandr1971
        US control over gas and oil pipelines from Russia to Europe

        These pipelines go specifically to Poland, a NATO member and America's main friend in Europe. Poland itself, by the way, plans to refuse supplies through these pipes, only Germany remains.
        Quote: Aleksandr1971
        And for the people of Belarus, the transfer of power under the control of the United States and the EEC will mean the closure of industrial enterprises, impoverishment and mass flight of the population to work in Europe.

        Unfortunately for you, many Minskers and not only visit the Baltics, so you will hardly be able to penetrate them by talking about poverty and devastation in the EU.
        Quote: Aleksandr1971
        Is it better to live in Ukraine after 2014?

        Unfortunately no.
        Quote: Aleksandr1971
        Russia, in order to prevent the transfer of Belarus to the control of the West, must go to the unlimited use of all its power up to putting its own existence at risk.

        Great advice. If the Russian Federation annexes at least not Ukraine, but still an entire European country, the EU is unlikely to be able to continue chewing snot.
        1. The comment was deleted.
          1. Cherry Nine
            Cherry Nine 16 August 2020 11: 15 New
            0
            Quote: Evgeny Ivanov_5
            And what prevents us from following the path of NATO in Yugoslavia?

            I mean, buy out Lukashenka for, like, a billion dollars and try in Moscow, how did it happen with Milosevic's departure to The Hague? Isn't it a pity for Lukashenka to have that kind of money?
          2. tandem
            tandem 16 August 2020 17: 11 New
            0
            do you wish for your enemies? don't like it, put it out of your head, if, of course, you have it
      3. Pilat2009
        Pilat2009 17 August 2020 08: 58 New
        0
        Quote: Aleksandr1971
        And you cast aside your sympathies and antipathies and think better about which scenario in Belarus will be better for Russia, regardless of how good or bad Putin and Lukashenka are. I don't like these comrades, but I don't want Russia's interests to suffer.

        In my opinion, the loss of Lukashenka's power will mean the transformation of Belarus into a US satellite, will mean the installation of a NATO radar station in Belarus, will mean US control over gas and oil pipelines from Russia to Europe (that is, there will be pipelines closing and a decrease in living standards in Russia). And for the people of Belarus, the transfer of power to the control of the United States and the EEC will mean the closure of industrial enterprises, impoverishment and a massive flight of the population to work in Europe.

        For Russia, the loss of Belarus as an ally will be the same as for the USA the transformation of Canada into a colony of China. The United States, in order to prevent such an option, will go to the unlimited use of all its force.

        Is it better to live in Ukraine after 2014? Not. According to economists, the standard of living in Ukraine fell by at least half. The only thing the Maydauns console themselves with is that they are no longer slaves from Russia. But they are also slaves to the States.

        But I hope that a harsh response will be given to this scenario in Belarus. Russia, in order to prevent the transfer of Belarus to the control of the West, must go to the unlimited use of all its force, up to putting its own existence at risk.

        There is no worse option than to send troops. Half of Ukraine has a negative attitude towards Russia for interfering in the Donbas. There are many Natsiks in Belarus who are trained in camps.
      4. Pilat2009
        Pilat2009 17 August 2020 22: 29 New
        0
        Quote: Aleksandr1971
        will mean the installation of a NATO radar station in Belarus, will mean US control over gas and oil pipelines from Russia to Europe (that is, there will be pipeline closures and a decrease in living standards in Russia)

        Have a lot of radars been installed in the Baltics, Georgia and Azerbaijan with Ukraine? So Gazprom wanted to close the pipeline. Wait, the Turkish stream is not filling
    3. Pereira
      Pereira 15 August 2020 10: 07 New
      +1
      Uncle Izya (Ruslan)
      Today I think Putin will not go to the next elections, he has a successor

      He has no receiver. There are officials.
      1. arlekin
        arlekin 16 August 2020 11: 55 New
        +1
        Quote: Pereira
        Uncle Izya (Ruslan)
        Today I think Putin will not go to the next elections, he has a successor

        He has no receiver. There are officials.

        He has a receiver - "Speedola-232". He has no successor.
    4. iouris
      iouris 15 August 2020 13: 18 New
      +1
      Whom do you propose to judge next? Indicate immediately.
    5. Lara Croft
      Lara Croft 16 August 2020 17: 57 New
      +1
      Quote: Uncle Izya
      I think Putin will not go to the next elections, he has a successor, and he needs to pass Lukash, let the Belarusians judge him

      It is interesting for what, the Belarusians will judge him, for the fact that he pulled money from the West and the East and due to this the entire economy of the Republic of Belarus lived ... the last 1/4 century?
      The people were silent when the Republic of Belarus was being transformed from a parliamentary republic into a presidential one, the people were silent, every time Batka was re-elected, and now that he has seen the light?
      1. Pereira
        Pereira 16 August 2020 19: 43 New
        +2
        Maybe tired of it?
        1. Lara Croft
          Lara Croft 16 August 2020 19: 46 New
          +1
          Quote: Pereira
          Maybe tired of it?

          Tired of working at your own factories producing products that are needed only in the CIS market? Well, then the people of Belarus are waiting for the fields of Poland and the struggle for the strawberry harvest ...
          1. Pereira
            Pereira 16 August 2020 19: 50 New
            +3
            And the third option - you don't even consider the modernization of enterprises? Belarusians are not worthy of this?
            To limit the choice of the people to the choice between the moronic government and the West is a vile lie that lowers the people to the level of cattle, depriving them of their future.
            Comparing Belarus with Ukraine is also a lie.
            Belarus must be compared with Russia.
            1. Lara Croft
              Lara Croft 16 August 2020 19: 58 New
              -1
              Quote: Pereira
              And the third option - you don't even consider the modernization of enterprises? Belarusians are not worthy of this?

              Well, you just keep them for fools, many Soviet enterprises in the Republic of Belarus were modernized with the money of the Russian Federation, at the expense of the same enterprises that disappeared in the Russian Federation itself ...
              To limit the choice of the people to the choice between the moronic government and the West is a vile lie that lowers the people to the level of cattle, depriving them of their future.

              But this is exactly what happened in the last 1/4 century in the Republic of Belarus ...
              Comparing Belarus with Ukraine is also a lie.

              ... you are right, Belarus is still at the beginning of the path that Ukraine has already passed ...
              Belarus must be compared with Russia.

              We passed our admiration for the West in the 90s, now we have apparently passed the period of helping our "brotherly peoples" at the expense of our own ....
            2. Pilat2009
              Pilat2009 17 August 2020 09: 02 New
              0
              Quote: Pereira
              And the third option - you don't even consider the modernization of enterprises? Belarusians are not worthy of this?
              To limit the choice of the people to the choice between the moronic government and the West is a vile lie that lowers the people to the level of cattle, depriving them of their future.
              Comparing Belarus with Ukraine is also a lie.
              Belarus must be compared with Russia.

              And what kind of shishi will you modernize enterprises? You will modernize the motor sich, which bends before our eyes
  • nikvic46
    nikvic46 15 August 2020 08: 13 New
    +1
    I am impressed by Kurginyan's speech. It sounds like this. Every leader who has been in power for a long time must prove his legitimacy every day, and not only on election day. He must be absolutely transparent to the people. Then the use of force will not be required. Lukashenka does not cost anything to open all polling stations, and thus prove your victory. Lukashenka, like all post-Soviet leaders, began to dig his own grave, embarking on the path of the international trend ... from himself. The west has paved a road for us to turn off, but this is impossible for many well-known reasons.
    1. Torquemada
      Torquemada 15 August 2020 10: 09 New
      +2
      Quote: nikvic46
      ukashenko costs nothing to open all areas

      If you're talking about a recount, then this is no longer possible - the ballots have been burned. Those. the people on the evening of election day demanded an open recount in the presence of independent observers, and the next day (maybe even earlier) ballots from the polling stations went to the boiler rooms.
    2. Pereira
      Pereira 15 August 2020 10: 09 New
      +2
      Once I did not open it, therefore I am afraid.
    3. your1970
      your1970 16 August 2020 19: 54 New
      0
      Quote: nikvic46
      Kurginyan's speeches

      Quote: nikvic46
      Every long-term leader must prove his legitimacy every day

      Quote: nikvic46
      It must be absolutely transparent to the people

      Oops !!!!!
      Stalin and Brezhnev ALSO it turns out - should have been? Kurginyan was not blown out of his head by the wind?
      1. nikvic46
        nikvic46 17 August 2020 06: 27 New
        0
        Sergei Here it is written what kind of leader should be. So when we read 400 pages a day, and at the same time make our comments in the margins, then we will have the right to criticize Stalin. "We must be loyal to the working class, and not to a single individual" -Stalin. This is a parting word for the future.
        1. your1970
          your1970 17 August 2020 11: 31 New
          0
          Quote: nikvic46
          It is written here how must be leader.

          That is it abstract (!!!!) Kurginyan's dream ??? !!
          Okay then, then let him rave further ...
          Let him then add something else - "work 25 hours a day, do not eat, do not drink, do not sleep, have inner vision and see a person through...."

          And yet, the more the Stalinists shout odes to Stalin, the more they belittle the entire subsequent history of the USSR. And it completely destroys hope for
          USSR v.2.
          According to their vision, the USSR worked only under him. That is - direct dependence on SPECIFIC leaders. And such states do not live long and usually fall apart immediately after the death of the leader. Which, incidentally, was demonstrated by the USSR quite a bit later.
  • Viktor Sergeev
    Viktor Sergeev 15 August 2020 08: 18 New
    -3
    People want to go to Poland to harvest. Well, they are tired of working in factories and their fields. It's time to help the EU, otherwise the Ukrainians can no longer cope.
    1. Fan-fan
      Fan-fan 15 August 2020 11: 31 New
      +1
      Vitya, does it follow from your commentary that unprecedented harvests in Poland and the Polish economy are on the rise?
      1. Viktor Sergeev
        Viktor Sergeev 15 August 2020 17: 02 New
        0
        I don’t know what harvests there are, but they still need to be harvested, but the coronavirus is raging in Ukraine and the Poles are not too eager to import slaves from Ukraine, and there are already not enough Ukrainians. Poles think for the future, they are not superfluous slaves.
        As for the recovery of the Polish economy, it seems to be normal now.
    2. Evgeny Ivanov_5
      Evgeny Ivanov_5 16 August 2020 10: 18 New
      +2
      Well, let them go. Don't interfere. Everyone chooses which one ... Stick your head in. The main thing then is to understand that it is your and only your choice, that it is so cool to be a guest worker at the level of unskilled labor at a party than to put things in order in your house.
  • Romka
    Romka 15 August 2020 09: 06 New
    -3
    Believe it or not, I have never seen such a consolidation of society. And those punishers who tortured children will answer according to the law.
    1. Viktor Sergeev
      Viktor Sergeev 15 August 2020 16: 58 New
      +2
      Have you seen this? Doesn't this remind you of Ukraine? There, the same several tens of thousands of monsters were issued for the consolidation of people. There, the peaceful demonstrators "rushed to the police, there was also coordinated everything from the EU and the US. Oh, there they were howling about the beaten" children. "You have to beat harder, and then imprison you for 10 years.
      1. Evgeny Ivanov_5
        Evgeny Ivanov_5 16 August 2020 10: 23 New
        +2
        If in Ukraine there are still no protests against the actions of the authorities, then the people are satisfied with the current situation. Those who were not happy with it took up arms and decided to leave Ukraine in 2014. If the rest do not have enough spirit, then let them reap the fruits of their passivity.
        1. Viktor Sergeev
          Viktor Sergeev 16 August 2020 11: 53 New
          -2
          There are people to whom they have given what command, and this they will execute. Any protests are paid actions. Top officials, organizers and provocateurs are paid. While there is no command from the master, people will stay at home, even if they raise the communal apartment 5 times more, the prices will be 3 times higher.
          1. atalef
            atalef 17 August 2020 07: 33 New
            0
            Quote: Victor Sergeev
            There are people to whom they have given what command, and this they will execute. Any protests are paid actions. Top officials, organizers and provocateurs are paid. While there is no command from the master, people will stay at home, even if they raise the communal apartment 5 times more, the prices will be 3 times higher.

            as that really absolutely shitty you think about the people.
            Do you think you are the same?
            1. Viktor Sergeev
              Viktor Sergeev 17 August 2020 17: 57 New
              -1
              I am not a hypocrite and I have no delusions of grandeur. Yes, I consider myself the same as everyone else. To organize a rally, there must be: a sponsor, organizers, activists, provocateurs, otherwise it will not be collected. Man by nature is a herd being who looks at what others are doing there.
              Someone must put forward an idea, pay activists, pay expenses (amplifiers, megaphones, leaflets, work of specialists on the Internet, buying bots, etc. Then the organizers are connected: the Internet, leaflets, spreading rumors. Well, when they began to gather, they connect here activists-provocateurs, they ignite the crowd, throw something at the police, provoke police brutality.
              All this can be clearly traced now in Belarus, it was in Ukraine, and in Russia, but it didn’t work for us, since the herd turned out to be cowardly, and normal people did not support them (all the rabble gathered, motley, hating each other).
    2. dali
      dali 15 August 2020 17: 05 New
      +2
      Quote: Romka
      Believe it or not, I have never seen such a consolidation of society. And those punishers who tortured children will answer according to the law.

      Yoperny bogeyman, again they beat "onizhedey" ....
    3. Cherry Nine
      Cherry Nine 16 August 2020 03: 31 New
      +3
      Quote: Romka
      And those punishers who tortured children will answer according to the law.

      Do you think it will be possible to put them all, together with the cockroach, under 357.3 of the Criminal Code of Belarus?
  • prior
    prior 15 August 2020 09: 19 New
    +6
    The situation is outrageously simple - there is no money, but I want to live like in Europe.
    Therefore, Lukashenka is to blame.
    And in Europe they are just waiting to give, catch up and give again.
    They have money there, like shoe polish at a shoe polish factory, well, nowhere to go.
    Why didn't they give it before?
    1. Elysium
      Elysium 15 August 2020 09: 55 New
      +1
      Why didn't they give it before?


      Didn't work. Russophobia was not enough. Now it is being replenished.
    2. Evgeny Ivanov_5
      Evgeny Ivanov_5 16 August 2020 10: 28 New
      +2
      But now they will give and eclipse Belarus with their cheese, France and Italy, and they will eat marbled beef from Belarus, not Argentina. And the whole world will rush to buy vegetables from fertile fields and there will be deposits of diamonds and nickel and a golden age will come and money will flow and the bunny will become the first currency in the world. I believe
  • Elysium
    Elysium 15 August 2020 10: 00 New
    +3
    The time has come to decide your future destiny on your own.

    It won't work on its own. Abroad will "help" in the same way as it "helps" now. It a priori cannot do otherwise, since RB is too tasty morsel for the West.
    1. Fan-fan
      Fan-fan 15 August 2020 11: 35 New
      +4
      Well, why can't Russia help its neighbors? In 2013, Ukraine was overslept, now we are losing Belarus. Where are the famous multi-moves, where is the Kremlin's clever foreign policy?
      1. Platon
        Platon 15 August 2020 12: 14 New
        0
        The Russian Foreign Ministry got the Soviet school (knock on the UN rostrum with a shoe) to work with neighboring republics for 30 years and have not learned. We continue to support outsiders
      2. Elysium
        Elysium 15 August 2020 13: 08 New
        +1
        Help how? Send troops and remove the mustache? Immediately the label of the occupiers from both sides of the elective showdown and a huge noise from the West. And what is the attitude of the rest of the population ... And there is no pro-Russian opposition ..
        It would be more desirable to remove the mustachioed by the forces of the Belarusian security forces, who would head for Russia. The question is whether such an option is possible.
      3. Andobor
        Andobor 15 August 2020 14: 43 New
        0
        Quote: Fan-Fan
        Ukraine was overslept

        Ukraine has ceased to be fed, and the Americans cannot install their strategic systems there, for which they need it, we will stop feeding and Belarus and the West will not get any buns there.
      4. Lara Croft
        Lara Croft 16 August 2020 18: 14 New
        0
        Quote: Fan-Fan
        Well, why can't Russia help its neighbors?

        Who would help us, how long I have not heard about it ...
        In 2013, Ukraine was overslept

        And how much did you save? Since 2014, not a single loan has been issued to the "ancient Sumerians" ... now we will freeze the construction of a nuclear power plant in the Republic of Belarus and become the best friends of Poland and Lithuania, why the hell would we give loans to the Republic of Belarus, if there is a "cardboard fool" in place of Batka. ..
        And the corporate and state debts of the Republic of Belarus to the Russian Federation have not been canceled .... we wrote off all the debts to Africa, and we will pull out the last crowns from the teeth from the "brotherly" people ... yes, the IMF, EBRD, the EU will not be left aside either ...
        So the Chinese "silk road" will be covered with a copper basin in the USA and Warsaw, they decided that the PRC has nothing to drive cheap goods to the EU through Belarus, otherwise the EU suddenly decided to limit Poland with subsidies ...
        1. Cherry Nine
          Cherry Nine 17 August 2020 08: 37 New
          +1
          Quote: Lara Croft
          will cover the Chinese "silk road"

          One belt - one way, so you know, passes through Kazakhstan, the Caucasus and Turkey. It is easier for the Chinese to make a ferry across the Caspian than to tie up transit to the Russian Federation.
      5. The comment was deleted.
  • Asad
    Asad 15 August 2020 13: 12 New
    +4
    I am shocked by the author, it means that Lukashenka can arrest his rivals in the elections, use administrative resources to create any lewdness! But you cannot protest! In short, the northern furry animal,
    1. Pilat2009
      Pilat2009 17 August 2020 09: 07 New
      0
      Quote: ASAD
      I am shocked by the author, it means that Lukashenka can arrest his rivals in the elections, use administrative resources to create any lewdness! But you cannot protest! In short, the northern furry animal,

      For 25 years in power, anyone will go crazy. You can even do cannibalism
  • iouris
    iouris 15 August 2020 13: 15 New
    0
    Kaneshna, it is some kind of raferendum that should complete this dirty business. And who will count and interpret?
    1. Evgeny Ivanov_5
      Evgeny Ivanov_5 16 August 2020 10: 30 New
      +1
      Tikhanovskaya probably
  • Dema
    Dema 15 August 2020 13: 59 New
    -1
    And how were the security forces supposed to act? To give roses and cakes? Maybe it's better to immediately cool down too hot so that there is no sea of ​​blood later? For some reason, the police do not touch those who protest peacefully, and for some reason, "cops are fascists, ki, creatures" (I myself heard these shouts under my windows). They may have gone too far, but when a glass bottle flies into your head from the upper floors, it's not up to sentimentality. They just want to kill you.
    1. Terrible
      Terrible GMO 15 August 2020 15: 47 New
      0
      Quote: Dema
      Maybe they went too far

      Quote: Dema
      They just want to kill you.

      Tell this to those who were tortured in Akrestsin Street and throughout the country.
      Quote: Dema
      For some reason, the police do not touch those who protest peacefully

      Lying doesn't work when there is hundreds of evidence to the contrary.
      Quote: Dema
      (I heard myself

      Officer's daughter *
      1. dali
        dali 15 August 2020 17: 07 New
        -3
        Quote: TerribleGMO
        Tell this to those who were tortured in Akrestsin Street and throughout the country.

        In short, where is the evidence of torture?
        If you knew what torture is, you would shut up in a rag!
        1. tandem
          tandem 16 August 2020 17: 56 New
          +1
          and you go to the BBC, KP or any non-governmental site
          1. your1970
            your1970 16 August 2020 20: 09 New
            0
            Quote: Dali
            In short, where is the evidence of torture?
            If you knew what torture is, you would shut up in a rag!

            Quote: tandem
            and you go to the BBC, KP or any non-governmental site

            questions
            1) if they tortured, then what was demanded? Self-incrimination under the administrative procedure? For this it is not necessary to torture, it is quite enough to create an atmosphere from which the detainee himself confesses? The responsibility is small.
            Self-incrimination under a criminal offense - so a dozen cases were initiated there ...
            2) torture technology?
            3) results of torture? Is there a video / photo of those who left the pre-trial detention center with traces of torture, or are they all still tortured in the pre-trial detention center? Where does the infa come from that they are tortured in the pre-trial detention center?
    2. Cherry Nine
      Cherry Nine 16 August 2020 03: 35 New
      +2
      Quote: Dema
      And how were the security forces supposed to act?

      First, what were they doing on the streets? Why did the Belarusians offend whom until they began to extinguish them?
      Quote: Dema
      For some reason, those who protest peacefully are not touched by the police

      Seriously?
      Quote: Dema
      Maybe they went too far

      A little bit.
      Quote: Dema
      They just want to kill you.

      Now yes.
    3. tandem
      tandem 17 August 2020 08: 54 New
      +1
      so far only protesters have been killed
  • Soviet Union
    Soviet Union 15 August 2020 20: 40 New
    -2
    Right.
  • Moss
    Moss 15 August 2020 22: 51 New
    +1
    Strange, very strange ... Why is there such confidence that Belarus, if the opposition wins, is simply obliged to turn to the West? Who from the opposition said even a word about the break with Russia? Babariko? Not. Tikhanovskaya, no. No cling either. The rest, objectively speaking, do not represent a significant number of people. Wishful thinking? Everyone knows (in Belarus) that 80% and maybe more of the economy is tied to Russia, 70% of the population for good-neighborly relations with Russia, 100% of the people speak Russian, and a sufficient number of people consider themselves Russians, so why do commentators have such confidence that Belarus will definitely and irrevocably rush to the West ??? It will not explode, there is nothing to do there, the example of Ukraine is quite indicative for the Belarusians as well ... There is no need to whip up and convince everyone of what will never happen!
    1. Cherry Nine
      Cherry Nine 16 August 2020 03: 39 New
      +1
      Quote: Moss
      Why is there such confidence that Belarus, if the opposition wins, is simply obliged to turn to the West?

      It's unavoidable. Russia has two allies - the army and the navy, as it has been for a long time. On the other hand, dad was also one of those friends who had a mustache and went to the museum.
      1. tandem
        tandem 16 August 2020 17: 54 New
        0
        stop the tantrum. Does Russia have a lot of disagreements with Finland?
        1. Cherry Nine
          Cherry Nine 16 August 2020 18: 00 New
          +3
          Quote: tandem
          Does Russia have a lot of disagreements with Finland?

          How can I tell you.
          1. tandem
            tandem 16 August 2020 18: 03 New
            0
            If I don't confuse anything, it’s the SSR that has squeezed out of the Finns. With great difficulty and great sacrifice. There, by the way, the Belarusians and the Ukrainians took part. Conclusion - part of the land there belongs to the Ukrainians and Belarusians. And to the Tatars, of course
            1. Cherry Nine
              Cherry Nine 16 August 2020 18: 19 New
              +2
              Quote: tandem
              With great difficulty and great sacrifice.

              So we figured out how to ensure that there are no disagreements with Russia and its two friends.
              1. tandem
                tandem 17 August 2020 09: 19 New
                0
                if you are talking about an armed conflict, then this is a dead end
                1. Cherry Nine
                  Cherry Nine 17 August 2020 10: 21 New
                  +1
                  It is inevitable as long as Belarus is not in NATO. Moldova, Georgia, Ukraine, why is Belarus better?
            2. EvilLion
              EvilLion 17 August 2020 09: 10 New
              0
              Actually, the Soviet-Finnish war of 1939-40 began because of the Russian territories transferred by the tsar to Finland. As for everything else, you can remember that the entire Finnish state was created by Russia, and before that there was a Swedish colony. Can I return.
          2. iouris
            iouris 16 August 2020 19: 07 New
            0
            Why, Finland won the war?
            In return for the seized territories, they were given twice. It was an exchange. In addition, all of Finland was given to the Finns. Finland was taken from Sweden.
    2. Lara Croft
      Lara Croft 16 August 2020 18: 22 New
      0
      Quote: Moss
      (in Belarus), that 80% and maybe more of the economy is tied to Russia, 70% of the population for good-neighborly relations with Russia, 100% of the people speak Russian, and a sufficient number of people consider themselves Russians, so why do commentators have such confidence about that Belarus will definitely and irrevocably rush to the West ???

      Believe it or not, the same ratio was in Ukraine in 2014.
      Belarus will definitely and irrevocably rush to the West ??? Will not explode, there is nothing to do there

      Those who rally against Old Man believe that he has nothing to do in the Republic of Belarus under any government, and participation in the rally may be credited to him ...
      the example of Ukraine is quite indicative for the Belarusians ...

      until you feel everything with your own hands you won't believe ...
    3. your1970
      your1970 16 August 2020 20: 12 New
      0
      Quote: Moss
      Who from the opposition said even a word about the break with Russia?

      Quote: Moss
      Tihanovskaya-no
      -which claims that she is a technical candidate - but who will come after her is a baaaal question and it is not at all necessary that it will be-
      Quote: Moss
      Babariko? Not. No cling either.
  • Virus-free crown
    Virus-free crown 16 August 2020 00: 48 New
    -2
    I have a purely technical question - is it possible for the Author to put a minus for the article? repeat
  • Ovsigovets
    Ovsigovets 16 August 2020 00: 53 New
    -2
    Quote: tandem
    what are you, dear Russians, restless people. You also need to make enemies of Belarusians ?! Nobody here is against the Russian Federation. Luka is bored to death. And the impoverishment is already there. Half of the country is working

    you don't understand enough words ... not enough ... business ... nominate a leader who will be pro-Russian and who will continue all integration processes, BUT not like Rygorych, but really
    1. tandem
      tandem 16 August 2020 18: 30 New
      +1
      There will be no pro-Russian leader. There will be pro-Belarusian. There are business interests. A sturdy thing. And they strongly testify in favor of good-neighborly and mutually beneficial relations with the Russian Federation and the Russian people. We complement each other. Our economies are interconnected and interdependent. We thought of as one country. We cannot live without each other. Whatever the Russian Federation is a great power. You are better with us than without us. Even the USSR was not completely self-sufficient. What can we say about the Russian Federation. Therefore - do not engage in nonsense, do not turn your back, do not make enemies.
      There was Russian America, Poltava, Borodino, the Time of Troubles, Polish riots - our history. Are you sure that the Belarusians have nothing to do with ukrami? This is us. It was. Now there is, that is.
  • Aleksandr1971
    Aleksandr1971 16 August 2020 05: 57 New
    -1
    Quote: Cherry Nine
    Quote: Aleksandr1971
    US control over gas and oil pipelines from Russia to Europe

    These pipelines go specifically to Poland, a NATO member and America's main friend in Europe. Poland itself, by the way, plans to refuse supplies through these pipes, only Germany remains.
    Quote: Aleksandr1971
    And for the people of Belarus, the transfer of power under the control of the United States and the EEC will mean the closure of industrial enterprises, impoverishment and mass flight of the population to work in Europe.

    Unfortunately for you, many Minskers and not only visit the Baltics, so you will hardly be able to penetrate them by talking about poverty and devastation in the EU.
    Quote: Aleksandr1971
    Is it better to live in Ukraine after 2014?

    Unfortunately no.
    Quote: Aleksandr1971
    Russia, in order to prevent the transfer of Belarus to the control of the West, must go to the unlimited use of all its power up to putting its own existence at risk.

    Great advice. If the Russian Federation annexes at least not Ukraine, but still an entire European country, the EU is unlikely to be able to continue chewing snot.

    Your thesis about Poland and the Russian pipelines in it is not entirely convincing because Poland is a member of the EU and this imposes obligations on it to the EU, and Belarus is not a member of the EU, and it will not be. An example is Turkey and even more so Ukraine, which have been pounding the doors of the EU for years. And the EU does not let them in for political reasons and because you have to spend money on the poor. So, Poland still receives from the EU annually subsidies of 8-10 billion euros. This is the secret of the Polish economic miracle. And the EU is also throwing off a lot on the Baltic states. The EU is already reluctant to spend money on Turkey, Ukraine and Belarus, especially after the departure of the second most important donor, Great Britain.

    Your thesis about the Baltics is not even more convincing. The Baltics are a member of the EU on subsidies. And even then, these countries have lost industry and 1/4 of the population to wash toilets in Western Europe. And in the Baltics itself, there is nothing left in the economy except strawberries in the fields. And you probably think that Belarusians are dreaming about this.

    As for the chewing snot of the EU and the risks of another sanctions, these risks are not as dire as Russia's loss of Belarus as its main strategic ally. This is the very existence of Russia as a state independent of the EU and NATO. All resources can be put on the line for existence as in 1941. And the EU will catch its snot when it is convinced that an attempt to tear Belarus away from Russia will lead to the risk of complete mutual extermination. As F. Lefort said to Peter I: "You have to hit with a backhand; but if you hit it lightly, you will beat off your hand."

    But there is no need to annex Belarus in 2020. The main thing is to keep it as a full-fledged ally in every sense.
    1. Cherry Nine
      Cherry Nine 16 August 2020 12: 55 New
      0
      Quote: Aleksandr1971
      Your thesis about Poland and the Russian pipelines in it is not entirely convincing because Poland is an EU member and this imposes obligations on it to the EU

      And, well, that is, a member of the EU and NATO behaves decently, and without the EU and NATO, the Bulbofascists will gnaw pipes with their teeth. How Bendera gnawed. Or not gnawed?
      Quote: Aleksandr1971
      these countries have lost industry and 1/4 of the population to wash toilets in Western Europe.

      If people from a country where salaries are four times higher than in Belarus go to Germany, then they are even better there. Few see this as a problem.

      Indeed, Germany and other rich EU countries are sucking out youth and active people from the poor, like Moscow from the regions, but there's nothing you can do about it. Fish seeks where it is deeper, man - where is better. Objectively rich countries will have to redistribute more money through EU mechanisms to support these pan-European depressed regions.
      Quote: Aleksandr1971
      And in the Baltics itself, there is nothing left in the economy except strawberries in the fields.

      You have rather strange ideas about the Baltics. Their economy is twice as large as Russia's per capita, with much less income stratification. You can't make that much on one strawberry. As for subsidies, the daddy, they write, stuck to the pipe a long time ago, but the strawberries in Belarus haven’t gotten into a head.
      Quote: Aleksandr1971
      All resources can be put on the line for existence as in 1941.

      Kill the country against the wall in order to prevent the notorious NATO tanks from moving from Pskov, where they have been standing for 16 years, to Smolensk? Well, that's a good decision. True, I feel sorry for the Belarusians.
  • Lara Croft
    Lara Croft 16 August 2020 17: 29 New
    -2
    You have matured! Belarus has matured! It's time to decide your future destiny on your own.

    The problem is that the Belarusians are divided into two camps, some want the EU to decide their fate for them, others, so that the Russian Federation will decide their fate for them, they themselves do not want to decide anything, because any decision is followed by responsibility, and no one is used to responsibility in the CIS ...
    I hope the Russian Federation will not step on the old rake and will not offer RB 15 billion ...,
    1. tandem
      tandem 16 August 2020 17: 52 New
      +1
      RF RB already contains. For your information. All these loans, sawing up petrodollars, Belarusian mussels, shrimps, oranges and salmon of Norwegian origin. These are all events of the same order. The problem is precisely that the current government cannot do otherwise. There are not enough brains. The laws of economics are inaccessible to the hockey player. He was not taught this. He knows how to take away and divide, but add and multiply - no.
      Only because of this all the disagreements. Otherwise, it would have reigned for a thousand years.
      There are just enough businessmen who see more effective ways of development.
      And what the Ukrainian did with Motor Sich, Nikolaev shipbuilding and Mashzavod, this is pure politics. To spite my grandmother, I'll frostbite. The position of a strong person, and deserves all respect. But, please, without us. We have MTZ, MAZ, MZKT, BelAZ and others. Everything is geared towards the Russian market. Please, dear Russians, come and buy. Welcome. And if someone pays more - do not blame me. Business is business.
      1. Lara Croft
        Lara Croft 16 August 2020 18: 42 New
        -2
        Quote: tandem
        We have MTZ, MAZ, MZKT, BelAZ and others. Everything is geared towards the Russian market.

        So the production in Ukraine was also all geared towards the Russian market, now there is no market and there are no such enterprises, but their analogues have appeared in the Russian Federation ...
        While we were supporting Ukraine to our own detriment, we had no analogues of Ukrainian products, but the need made the analogs learn to do the same, and it will be the same with your factories, why the hell would the Russian Federation invest in a Russophobic country, when it's easier to support its manufacturer ...
  • NordUral
    NordUral 16 August 2020 20: 31 New
    +2
    Do you walk in your arms, author?
  • Glagol1
    Glagol1 16 August 2020 21: 21 New
    +2
    The author is flying somewhere. Not even in the clouds. All independent assessments speak of a corridor of votes for Lukashenka of 30-40%.
    Tikhanovskaya has about 60%. What other referendum?
    1. EvilLion
      EvilLion 17 August 2020 09: 08 New
      0
      Independent assessment and I can do. Do not get up from your chair or take your fingers off the keyboard.
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  • Sergey Egorov_2
    Sergey Egorov_2 17 August 2020 01: 36 New
    -1
    Whack whack
    Carry a ready-made one
    Whack whack
    Who's on the newcomer?
    Who's new
    Well, who's new
  • high
    high 17 August 2020 05: 24 New
    +1
    Dozens of the largest enterprises in Belarus opposed the election fraud:
    - Minsk Automobile Plant (MAZ
    - Minsk Tractor Plant (MTZ)
    - Minsk Motor Plant (MMZ)
    - Grodno ,, AZOT ,,
    - Metallurgical plant (Zhlobin)
    - Minsk Electrotechnical Plant (MEZ)
    - Minsk Wheel Tractor Plant (MZKT)
    - Belarusian Automobile Plant BelAZ, etc.
  • atalef
    atalef 17 August 2020 06: 10 New
    0
    Two by two! The fact that Lukashenka won the election in accordance with the Constitution of Belarus is a fact. He won regardless of our attitude towards him and the attitude of the citizens of Belarus. Even the most stubborn oppositionists do not deny this. Yes, he used the resource of power, yes, he removed his competitors, yes, he deprived voters of the right to choose. But the elections took place! People came to the sites and chose! So, for these people, the choice was!

    you haven't written yet. that the totals were falsified
    Alexander - have you read your article yourself?
    There was a choice. belay
    it's a choice, I wonder if you had that choice - would you call it a choice?
    .
    1. Cherry Nine
      Cherry Nine 17 August 2020 08: 34 New
      +1
      Quote: atalef
      it's a choice, I wonder if you had that choice - would you call it a choice?

      The Russians had exactly the same choice a month ago. He suits them. There are no Belarusians anymore.
  • savage1976
    savage1976 17 August 2020 07: 19 New
    0
    It is not enough to understand where to go, what decisions to make, you also need to understand the responsibility for these decisions and understand that there will be bad consequences from these decisions and those who vote for 5 of them in referendums are also responsible for them.
  • Glenni
    Glenni 17 August 2020 08: 11 New
    0
    Well, no referendum under Lukashenka! New president, then a referendum is possible!
  • EvilLion
    EvilLion 17 August 2020 09: 07 New
    0
    The whole so-called. Belarusian statehood is needed only to preserve power of Lukashenka, and he stole the whole republic much worse than any Russian oligarchs. And the only nat. the idea for Belarusians is to wind up this whole shop and join the Russian Federation as the Minsk region. Otherwise, in 10 years they will be for Russians the same second-class people as citizens of the remnants of Ukraine.

    However, my forecast is this, this time Russia will conditionally support Rygorych, simply because the alternatives will be even worse, but the conditions will be set to him extremely tough. Perhaps, up to “take 25 green lyams and go wherever you want, but before that, give back the stolen paperednyk in 91”, otherwise he may not survive the next Maidancheg, and there will be nowhere to run ..
  • tandem
    tandem 17 August 2020 10: 38 New
    0
    Quote: Cherry Nine
    It is inevitable as long as Belarus is not in NATO. Moldova, Georgia, Ukraine, why is Belarus better?

    will not work. This, please, without us.
    1. Cherry Nine
      Cherry Nine 17 August 2020 11: 42 New
      -1
      It is not for the Belarusians to decide. God grant that it will carry.
  • tandem
    tandem 17 August 2020 10: 43 New
    0
    Quote: Fan-Fan
    Well, why can't Russia help its neighbors? In 2013, Ukraine was overslept, now we are losing Belarus. Where are the famous multi-moves, where is the Kremlin's clever foreign policy?

    maybe she is smart? sometimes it's best not to interfere. Vaughn Afghan has already been helped as a neighbor
  • King3214
    King3214 17 August 2020 12: 57 New
    0
    "Smart people" are not capable of such madness. Stop flattering them and call things by their proper names.
  • tandem
    tandem 17 August 2020 17: 10 New
    0
    Quote: Cherry Nine
    It is not for the Belarusians to decide. God grant that it will carry.

    to the Belarusians. And let the rest go through the forest
    1. Vladimir1155
      Vladimir1155 18 August 2020 05: 35 New
      -1
      Quote: tandem
      to the Belarusians.

      do you really think that what is being decided there? ... while following the instructions of some coordinators .... people never decide anything, and are not able to decide because the crowd, but they like it when they use it with the words "you Belarusians now decide everything" , a little deceitful and petty flattery ... nothing personal, just vanity
  • Vladimir1155
    Vladimir1155 18 August 2020 05: 32 New
    0
    mass psychosis in the hands of experienced manipulators, (who was nothing, he will become everything) ... this has happened many times, how stupid and weak a person is, how he was nothing and will remain but will serve as a little cannon fodder for those who want to capture a tidbit replacing Lukashenka, well, then everything will be the same ... but only even worse, the revolution destroys its heroes, and the property always goes to the scoundrels
  • tandem
    tandem 18 August 2020 13: 18 New
    +1
    [quote = Cherry Nine] [quote = Moss] Why is there such confidence that Belarus, if the opposition wins, is simply obliged to turn to the West? [/ quote]
    It's unavoidable. Russia has two allies - the army and the navy, it just so happened
    but, how, how. I do remember. When the Union, the Russian Empire, that is, collapsed, the great and mighty army and navy, along with other structures with cunning names, stood at attention and menacingly puffed out their cheeks. - Do not go, foreign adversary, to the Motherland. We ourselves. We will do this with her, it will not seem a little. Created. Until now, that Motherland cannot get well.
    1. Cherry Nine
      Cherry Nine 18 August 2020 14: 00 New
      0
      It seems that you missed the irony.
      1. tandem
        tandem 18 August 2020 14: 44 New
        0
        the topic is this. Disgusting. Reluctance to joke
  • Dema
    Dema 19 August 2020 17: 17 New
    -1
    Quote: Moss
    Who from the opposition even said a word about the break with Russia? Babariko? Not. Tikhanovskaya, no. No cling either.

    Their program spoke for them, from which they now deny