Military Review

Toughie. Soviet arsenal against the German "Tiger"

101

Trophy with tower number 121. Source: warspot.ru


Kubinka receives guests


In January 1943, the Wehrmacht was unlucky: the Germans lost several of the newest tanks "Tiger". And not only lost, but given to the Red Army as a trophy. Guderian, in his manner, accused Hitler of this. In the book Memoirs of a Soldier, he comments on the loss of the Tigers near Leningrad:

“In September 1942, the Tiger entered the battle. Even from the experience of the First World War, it was known that when creating new types of weapons, one should be patient and wait for their mass production, and then use them immediately in large quantities. Knowing this, Hitler nevertheless wanted to see his main trump card in action as soon as possible. However, the new tanks were given an absolutely secondary task: a local attack in difficult terrain in the swampy forests near St. Petersburg. Heavy tanks could only move in a column one at a time along narrow clearings, falling under fire from anti-tank guns placed along them. As a result - losses that could have been avoided, premature declassification of new technology and, as a result, the impossibility of catching the enemy by surprise in the future.



Source: smolbattle.ru

The 502nd heavy tank battalion was operating near Leningrad at that time. By the end of January 1943, he had irrevocably lost six Tiger tanks. This list included a tank with tower number 100, which the crew left the Red Army soldiers in perfect working order. It happened on January 18, near the Workers' Village No. 5 of the Leningrad Region. The tank crew did not know that the settlement was already occupied by Soviet troops and behaved in its vicinity as at home. And when the caterpillar giant slid off the road, the tankers calmly got out, trying to assess the situation. They were immediately shot at and hastily retreated, leaving the "Tiger" as a trophy. The fugitive crew explained to the command that the tank's engine had failed. Soviet tank crews pulled the heavyweight out of the snow captivity, brought in and drove him to the Polyana railway station. Eyewitnesses claim that the Germans from the Sinyavinsky Heights continuously and unsuccessfully fired at the lost car. Soviet engineers examined the "Tiger" in Kubinka, and after that, from June 22, 1943, it was exhibited at a trophy exhibition in Moscow at the Gorky Central Park of Culture and Leisure. The car then returned to Kubinka, and in 1947 it went for scrap, since a lot of it came out of the 56-ton tank.

But tank number 100 was not the only tank captured by the Soviet Union. In the area of ​​the same mentioned Workers' settlement No. 5, the Germans abandoned another "Tiger" with tower number 121, which was really out of order. This car was destined to be shot at the Scientific and Testing Armored Range of the GBTU of the Red Army. After the execution, the tank was sent to the summer exhibition of captured equipment in Moscow, and then disposed of. Historian Yuri Pasholok claims that a third tank was also evacuated from the battlefield. It was in a deplorable state and was used as a donor of spare parts and armor samples for study at TsNII-48.




"Tiger" with tower number 100, which fell into the hands of the Red Army in a fully functional condition and with detailed instructions. Source: fishki.net

Based on the results of the study of the first tank No. 100 and other trophies in the "Bulletin of Tank Industry" at the Test Site, very interesting conclusions were drawn. German tank builders, in particular, were accused of plagiarism. The control mechanism of the "Tiger" was stolen from the French "Somua", and the viewing prisms - from the Americans. Among the minuses, they also identified the imbalance of the turret with a cannon extended forward and a heavy mask, which seriously impeded the manual turret rotation with a roll of 5 degrees. "Tiger" was taken prisoner in the heyday of the technological power of the Third Reich, as evidenced by the composition of chromium-molybdenum armor: carbon - 0,46%, silicon - 0,2-0,3%, phosphorus - 0,02-0,03%, nickel - 0,1-0,15%, manganese - 0,66-0,8%, sulfur - 0,014-0,025%, chromium - 2,4-2,5% and molybdenum - 0,45-0,50% ... Brinell hardness 241-302 - medium hardness armor. Everything related to weapons was especially positive in "Tiger". Soviet engineers identified a unitary ammunition that increased the rate of fire, an electric trigger for the gunner that improved accuracy and a binocular sight, which was generally the best in the world at that time.


Visibility diagram from "Tiger". Source: "Bulletin of the tank industry"

The visibility from the tank was assessed separately. Out of sight of the "Tiger" were: 6 meters for the driver, 9 meters through the mirror observation device, 11 meters through the slots in the tower and 16 meters through 6 slots in the commander's cupola. According to the testers, the design of the Tiger's viewing devices ensured the observer's safety and a satisfactory view. The Maybach HL210 Tiger engine was also successful, according to the Kubinka engineers. Compared to its predecessor HL-120, the new engine has managed to significantly increase the liter power. For this, the compression ratio was increased to 7,5, which created problems with working on 74th gasoline. In turn, internal cooling of parts with sodium was used to reduce the increased load on the valves from detonation. Further, the combustion chamber filling ratio was increased in the engine, for which the diameter of the intake valve head was increased to 0,6 of the cylinder diameter, and the valve head itself was given a well-streamlined tulip shape. Every three cylinders of the engine had two twin carburetors, which is also of great importance in increasing power. The record speed for the engine class was the piston speed - more than 16 m / s.

Disassemble to a screw and shoot


The "Tiger" transmission made an indelible impression on Soviet engineers. The Adler gearbox had 8 gears for forward and travel and 4 for reverse. The automatic hydraulic servo made the giant's driving a lot easier. In fact, any member of the crew could replace the driver, it was so easy to drive the "Tiger". To change gears, it was enough to move the lever without squeezing the pedals of the main clutch. The servo drive automatically, without the participation of the driver, turned off the main clutch and the previously engaged gear, synchronized the angular speeds of the gear clutches to be engaged, turned on a new gear, and then smoothly brought the main clutch into action. In this case, in the case of the release of hydraulic equipment, gear shifting and turning off the main clutch can be done mechanically. Limousine, and more! Soviet engineers give this unit a big name for the best drive along with the gearbox itself. At the same time, this mechanism was viewed more as a curiosity and did not fully understand why such a complex technique was installed in a tank. Perhaps the only thing that deserved attention was the jet lubrication system, which supplies oil to the place where the gears engage when the sump is dry.

The turning mechanism of the "Tiger" (the same one that the Germans borrowed from the French "Somua") is of the planetary type. Without going into the complexity of the device, let us dwell on the conclusions reached by domestic engineers.

The steering mechanism, in comparison with the side clutches, reduces the load on the engine and the power loss in the friction elements of the steering mechanism, thanks to which the tank has good steering. The tank can turn with any radius, including the one lying inside its track. The disadvantage was the presence of two degrees of freedom in the transmission, which, when driving in a straight line, reduced the vehicle's cross-country ability on obstacles and in difficult road conditions. Simply put, the "Tiger" independently changed the direction of movement, if there was a heterogeneous ground under the tracks. This deficiency was eliminated on the "King Tiger" - he walked strictly straight, although not far. As a result, Soviet tank builders noted the elegance of the design of the tank turning mechanism, doubted its expediency and decided to leave it as a monument to the Teutonic school of engineering.

Let's move on to the Tiger's chassis. Despite the complexity and massiveness of the staggered arrangement of the skating rinks, the "Bulletin of Tank Industry" indicates that the Germans had no other choice. With a tank mass of 56 tons, only such a scheme made it possible to install the vehicle on external rubber cushioning. In all other schemes, the rubber tire would not withstand gigantic loads.

For car # 121, as mentioned above, a different fate was in store. All equipment was removed from the tank and placed at the Kubinka training ground as a target. Perhaps the tests of the armor protection of the tank at that time for the Red Army were much more important than the nuances of the design. Based on the results of the firing range in May 1943, a report was released, which describes in great detail the strengths and weaknesses of the new German tank. The military took the "tiger" threat so seriously that they even brought in two aircraft for testing, the LaGG-3 and the Il-2, which fired a 37-mm cannon on the tank. Winged machines shot at the roof of the Tiger, diving at an angle of 35-40 ° from a distance of more than 500 meters. The range of means of destruction included grenades, mines (anti-tracked TMD-B and experimental jumping mine of plant # 627), five anti-tank guns, three anti-tank guns, four tank guns, two anti-aircraft guns and four large-caliber field guns. Looking ahead, it is worth mentioning that three of the four field guns of 107 mm, 122 mm and 152 mm calibers missed the target. The 152-mm ML-20 cannon-howitzer hit the target ten times in vain, the M-122 30-mm howitzer fifteen times, and the 107-mm M-60 divisional cannon fired seven rounds past the Tiger, after which it lost the installation of the opener ... The arsenal included both domestic and Lendleigh artillery pieces. Artillery fire began on the "Tiger" on April 25 and ended six days later.

We started with the 45 mm gun of the T-70 tank. The gun pierced the side armor 62 mm thick from 350 meters with a sub-caliber projectile. But this vulnerable point had to be found on the German carcass: usually the shells fell into the 82-mm thickness of the armor (the upper side sheet), leaving only dents. And only from 200 meters, that is, point-blank, the T-70 was able to hit the thick side of the Tiger. The anti-tank 45 mm gun of the 1942 model was also able to hit the tank only on the side and only with a sub-caliber projectile (muzzle velocity 1070 m / s). The bottom sheet of the board made its way from 500 meters, the top - from 350 meters. With a more serious caliber, 57 mm (ZIS-2), they tried to pierce the frontal plates. It turned out to be in vain, but the gun penetrated the sides of the hull and turret from 800-1000 meters. And once the shell successfully hit the commander's cupola, pierced through and ripped from the shoulder strap. For some reason, the British 57-mm cannon was not hit in the forehead of the Tiger, but the shells confidently hit the side from 1000 meters. Soviet testers separately noted the high-quality alloy from which the British made armor-piercing shells. The M-61 armor-piercing tracer shells with a bottom fuse from the American M4A2 tank ammunition were also highly appreciated.


The results of the American cannon M3. Caliber 75 mm. Source: warspot.ru

These 75 mm shells did not collapse, even when pierced through the side of a German tank. Only now they punched it from a distance of only 400-650 meters. A real failure with far-reaching consequences was the firing from the 76-mm F-34 cannon: out of 10 shots, not a single scoring defeat. Neither standard armor-piercing shells nor experienced cumulative ammunition coped. At the same time, the steel of the shells was of no use; when it hit the Tiger, the ammunition simply crumbled. And the German armor only bulged (did not break off) on the back of the sheet. The 76-mm K-3 anti-aircraft gun was able to penetrate only the 82-mm side of the tank turret from 0,5 km. Good ones news came with a 52-K 85 mm anti-aircraft gun. This gun confidently penetrated the side of the tank from 1000 meters, head-on from 500 meters. If the M-30 howitzer did not hit the Tiger with its 122-mm projectile, then a similar A-19 cannon with a twenty-five-kilogram projectile not only pierced the German car, but also broke through pieces of armor. Then the idea of ​​installing a miracle weapon on a heavy Soviet tank was born.


The 76 mm F-34 tank could not cope with the Tiger's armor. Source: warspot.ru

Now about light artillery. The KB-30 grenade, which was thrown at the Tiger because of the T-34, did not penetrate the armor even once out of three repetitions. However, if the grenade was leaned against the side armor, then it completely burned through the "Tiger", leaving 20-25-mm holes. The conditions, I must say, are very specific and far from reality. Therefore, a hand grenade could only be used against the roof of a tank, where the armor thickness did not exceed 28 mm.


Ahead of this instance is an exhibition in Moscow and melting for the needs of the front. Source: warspot.ru

In the next experiment, the German tank was towed by the domestic KV-1 in order to study the nature of the destruction of the TMD-B mine. Everything went well: the caterpillar was torn along with the gear rim of the right drive wheel. Then there was a jumping rifle mine of the factory # 627, which was laid under the bottom of the "Tiger" and was blown up. 28 mm armor was successfully hit with an impressive 27x35 mm hole. The failures of anti-tank rifles of calibers from 14,5 mm to 20 mm were quite expected. But the Blum 43P rifle with an armor-piercing bullet with an initial speed of 1500 m / s penetrated the lower side plate of the tank from 100 meters. It was only necessary in combat conditions to be able to hit the "Tiger" like weapons. Finally, aviation... For flying equipment, the German heavyweight was not a difficult target: the 37-mm cannon successfully pierced the thin roof of the tank from a distance of half a kilometer.

Having turned out to be a tough nut to crack for domestic tanks and artillery, the Tiger (one of the few) initiated large-scale changes in Soviet tank building, which eventually became part of the Great Victory.
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  1. The leader of the Redskins
    The leader of the Redskins 18 August 2020 18: 12 New
    23
    Thank. If the beginning of the article was widely covered earlier, then the continuation deserves a worthy attention. Very interesting.
    1. Pirate
      Pirate 19 August 2020 07: 43 New
      +1
      The top of German technology at the time is a very serious opponent.
      1. Pirate
        Pirate 19 August 2020 07: 58 New
        +1
        Continuation h 2
        1. Pirate
          Pirate 19 August 2020 08: 00 New
          +1
          And the last h 3
  2. svp67
    svp67 18 August 2020 18: 29 New
    +6
    The control mechanism of the "Tiger" was stolen from the French "Somua", and the viewing prisms - from the Americans
    So what. To take the best from the enemy and use it, EVERYTHING ALWAYS did this ...
    Soviet engineers have identified a unitary ammunition that increases the rate of fire ...
    Question. And what did we have at that time as something different? So no. At that moment, all of our produced tanks had unitary ammunition. And the gun used is a modification of the famous German anti-aircraft gun "eight-eight", with a corresponding similar nomenclature of ammunition. There were cases when our low-flying attack aircraft shot down from the "Tigers" ...
    1. Hwostatij
      Hwostatij 18 August 2020 19: 18 New
      0
      There were cases when our low-flying attack aircraft shot down from the "Tigers" ...

      Didn't they shoot down satellites in geostationary orbit?
      1. svp67
        svp67 18 August 2020 20: 23 New
        +5
        Quote: Hwostatij
        Didn't they shoot down satellites in geostationary orbit?

        Alternative history on another site.
        If our ancestors with the worst optics and ballistics of the 76,2 mm T-34 tank gun managed to shoot down German planes, then what are you trying to joke about now?
        1. Hwostatij
          Hwostatij 18 August 2020 20: 43 New
          +2
          How do you imagine aiming from a tank gun of those times at fast-flying air targets?
          1. dmmyak40
            dmmyak40 18 August 2020 23: 14 New
            +4
            I read in the memoirs of attack pilots on the Il-2 that the Germans from the year 43 began to use tanks in repelling the Il-2 raids. The tank moved into a ditch to obtain the required elevation angle for the gun. They shot the OFS. I will try to remember exactly where I read it.
            1. AUL
              AUL 20 August 2020 00: 13 New
              +2
              Quote: dmmyak40
              I will try to remember exactly where I read it.

              The Adventures of Werner Holt.
            2. Letun
              Letun 20 August 2020 14: 33 New
              +5
              Quote: dmmyak40
              I read in the memoirs of attack pilots on the Il-2 that the Germans from the year 43 began to use tanks in repelling the Il-2 raids. The tank moved into a ditch to obtain the required elevation angle for the gun. They shot the OFS. I will try to remember exactly where I read it.

              I think for any attack pilot, a Tiger standing with cancer in a kuvette would be just a gorgeous gift.
              I heard the same heresy, just the opposite, about the abandoned T-34. Like my grandfather found (!) Near the railway embankment an abandoned T-34, drove it onto the embankment in order to take the cannon into the sky, took aim through the barrel bore at the German fishing rod, quickly threw a shell into the breech and shot it down!
              To the storyteller's question if he imagines how fast the plane flies, what anticipation is and what can be seen looking through the barrel of a cannon, he replied that the plane dived directly at the tank (apparently right into the barrel, not otherwise), and I, if in doubt in the ingenuity and valor of the Soviet man during WWII - a traitor, a scoundrel and a liberal. How! And there is nothing to argue after that request
          2. svp67
            svp67 19 August 2020 05: 33 New
            +7
            Quote: Hwostatij
            How do you imagine aiming from a tank gun of those times at fast-flying air targets?

            I'm not saying that it was every day, but there were cases. But as? Yes, in different ways. If you are an experienced shooter, then it is not difficult to take a lead point, and at the moment when an enemy plane attacks you frontally at low level, try to shoot it down ...
            It seems like such a case with our tanker on the T-34
            Several minutes passed, and a German plane flew over the road with the wrecked vans, right above the telegraph poles.
            Alexander Mikhailovich recalled: "The plane cruised along this line and, knowing approximately the distance between the posts, I calculated its speed. It was small, about 50-60 kilometers per hour. When the plane dropped its cargo and flew past us, I decided that if he will turn around, I will try to shoot him down. I give the command to Fetisov to unscrew the cap and load with fragmentation. The plane turns around, I take a lead - a shot. The shell hit him right in the engine, and the plane broke. "

            As I understand it, they shot down the "Stork"
            Or this one, from the book "Tank Driver in a Foreign Car"
            The first group "U-87" was replaced by the second, and after it - the third. The planes circled over the detachment for an hour and a half, they could not do anything, but they "corked" us in a huge, long abandoned quarry under the mountain ...

            And suddenly one "Sherman" rushed to the railway embankment. From the number on the turret, I immediately determined that this was the car of the guard lieutenant Grigory Verbovoy. To my demands: “Stop! Come back!" - he answered briefly: "Now I will teach them a lesson!"

            The fascist pilots immediately noticed a tank emerging from cover and rushed at it. An unusual duel between one Emcha and six enemy bombers began. The leading Junkers finished the run and entered the dive. At this moment, the driver-mechanic of the Guard Sergeant Mikhail Korablin reared the bow of the Sherman on a high railway embankment. The long-barreled cannon looked up into the sky, almost like an anti-aircraft gun. The lead aircraft continued to dive swiftly, followed by other bombers at short intervals ...
            Second, second ... The planes were inexorably approaching Verbovoy's tank. When it seemed that nothing would save the Sherman from a direct hit from a series of powerful bombs that was about to be dropped, a cannon shot rang out. The tank shuddered and slid down a little. Leading "Ju-87" exploded, and its shapeless pieces, circling in the air, fell into the river and onto the ground.

            And now the victory of the Tiger over the Soviet plane from the book "Tigers in the Mud"
            “Cramer, overwhelmed by the inexorable onslaught of these guys, raised his cannon in the plane's line of motion. I gave him permission to fire. He took a chance and pulled the trigger. On the second try, he hit one of the "bees" in the wing. The Russian crashed behind us. "
            1. Hwostatij
              Hwostatij 19 August 2020 08: 30 New
              0
              Nowhere do they lie like in the hunt and in the war (c).
              In theory, of course, this is possible, but in practice it makes no sense even simply for reasons of useless ammunition consumption. The likelihood of an aircraft being shot down by one projectile is just an alternative history.
              1. svp67
                svp67 19 August 2020 08: 34 New
                +6
                Quote: Hwostatij
                Nowhere do they lie like in the hunt and in the war

                But not when there are many witnesses around you ...
              2. Grim Reaper
                Grim Reaper 19 August 2020 13: 33 New
                +3
                Quote: Hwostatij
                Nowhere do they lie like in the hunt and in the war (c).
                In theory, of course, this is possible, but in practice it makes no sense even simply for reasons of useless ammunition consumption. The likelihood of an aircraft being shot down by one projectile is just an alternative history.

                chance "one in a million" works half the time. (FROM) ;)
              3. dmmyak40
                dmmyak40 21 August 2020 23: 11 New
                0
                In the case of firing at planes, it is not the probability of hitting the plane that is important, but the ability to knock the planes off the combat course, upset the battle formation, and make the plane pilot nervous. I think that when a tracer of an armor-piercing projectile flies past you (I don't know if the Germans had an OFS with a fuse installed), this obviously does not improve the mood.
              4. dmmyak40
                dmmyak40 21 August 2020 23: 14 New
                +1
                Once again, I will refer to a source I forgot: it was recorded (I remembered the words that it was the only documented one) that our 82-mm mine hit the diving Ju-87. Alas, I don't remember the source. request Also met the mention of this fact in the book of S. Anisimov "Option" Bis ".
                1. bubalik
                  bubalik 21 August 2020 23: 40 New
                  +1
                  the only documented) hit

                  https://topwar.ru/134146-russkiy-paren-sbil-fokke-vulf-iz-minometa.html
                  1. dmmyak40
                    dmmyak40 22 August 2020 00: 21 New
                    +1
                    Thank! Somehow missed this article ...
            2. volodimer
              volodimer 19 August 2020 09: 11 New
              +6
              I read the first example given on the site "I remember". The fight there was simply outstanding. From the category "it's incredible, but it's a fact."
              When I read it, I didn't immediately understand either ... I also shot down the plane ...
              Loza's book contains many interesting facts, it is from the category of "must-read".
              The opposite examples are also recollected. As a result of shelling the tank with a rifle-caliber machine gun from an aircraft, the bullet passed through the raised gun barrel and the open breech and killed the tank commander.
              This is also described by Loza ...
              Sergey, thank you for reminding me, perhaps I'll reread it again. hi
              And to Tail, I recommend that pro
              satellites in geostationary orbit
              do not write ... After all, anything can happen ... for example a minelayer against an armored train ... yes
              1. Avior
                Avior 19 August 2020 17: 39 New
                0
                A submarine torpedoed a steam locomotive ... smile
                1. volodimer
                  volodimer 20 August 2020 05: 50 New
                  +2
                  During the landing at the port of Seishin on August 13-18, 1945, the ships of the landing squadron, incl. and minelay "Argun" fired at the Japanese armored train. So ... although it sounds like a curiosity, it's a fact.
                  1. Avior
                    Avior 20 August 2020 06: 01 New
                    +3
                    About a submarine and a steam locomotive - there was such a case on Sakhalin.
                    The Japanese railroad in some section ran directly along the coast.
                    1. volodimer
                      volodimer 20 August 2020 06: 02 New
                      0
                      Thank you, I didn't know that good
            3. Varyag_0711
              Varyag_0711 19 August 2020 12: 47 New
              11
              “The plane was cruising along this line and, knowing the approximate distance between the poles, I calculated its speed. It was small, about 50-60 kilometers per hour.
              This is where you saw planes fly at such a speed ?! Don't you think that this is pure nonsense or an army bike?
              1. Lyokha Lokhavich
                Lyokha Lokhavich 19 August 2020 13: 49 New
                -3
                What are you ... how do you not take a person's word for it? I've accelerated up to 50 km on a bicycle and almost took off! and they fly on a motorcycle?)))) maybe the plane was going slowly, is it unrealistic? while the plane was moving unhurriedly, the pilots got out and asked the population to light a cigarette, and the commander quickly drove to the store for Armenian brandy. fur, was bought in the river and everyone managed to go back until the moment when the plane reached the second pillar)))
              2. svp67
                svp67 19 August 2020 14: 03 New
                0
                Quote: Varyag_0711
                This is where you saw planes fly at such a speed?

                German "Stork", our Po-2 could fly at such a speed
                1. Lyokha Lokhavich
                  Lyokha Lokhavich 19 August 2020 14: 27 New
                  -3
                  that is, you say if you attach wings to a bicycle, then it will fly? possibly! but only a bicycle, but what about armor? I somehow accelerate on a bicycle up to 50 km, somehow I can not imagine that it is possible to lift a car into the air at such a speed .... do you know that a person develops a speed of up to 30 km by running? you just wrote that (the tractor flew into the air at a speed of 50-60 km) I agree with you, the tractor can take off into the air))) from demolitions))) but after that it will no longer be suitable for serial flights)))
                  1. svp67
                    svp67 19 August 2020 14: 41 New
                    +2
                    Quote: Lyokha Lokhavich
                    that is, you say if you attach wings to a bicycle, then it will fly? possibly!

                    I claim that there is an actual speed and an instrument speed. On the instrument panel, the aircraft can fly at a speed of 120 km. per hour, but in fact, due to a strong headwind, it can generally stand still or fly back, which happened with the same An-2, already in later times
                    1. Lyokha Lokhavich
                      Lyokha Lokhavich 19 August 2020 15: 02 New
                      -1
                      you are comparing an, well then take the yak! these are lightweight aircraft types that have no armor! they were lightened for lifting more shells and getting more speed in battle! but we are examining the topic of where the German plane was shot down, right? and they didn't have light armor! and therefore the weight increased ... in general, for you personally, in the 1930s, Germany announced a competition for aircraft that were supposed to reach 350 km / h, of which Messerschmitt won. bf 109, reached 600 km.h weight - more than 2.5 tons (empty) can you imagine? 2.5 tons (empty even without pilots) flies at a speed of 50-60 km / h ???
                      1. svp67
                        svp67 19 August 2020 15: 18 New
                        +2
                        Quote: Lyokha Lokhavich
                        You are comparing an, well then, take a yak!

                        Excuse me, did the Germans only have a BF-109?
                        Do you know this very often used plane?

                        And this one?

                        And so?

                        And they fought in that war against us and on such planes
                      2. Lyokha Lokhavich
                        Lyokha Lokhavich 19 August 2020 15: 31 New
                        -6
                        Well then, okay! ... such in the first fought! and in the second they fought in the bf, 34 of them were made! and that's just bf! with such volumes such a maize ... it made sense! this is a technique up to 000g. and ours flew on maize because they were not ready for war! and the Germans moved to the screw BF even before 34g, as they were preparing for war! although maybe I'm wrong ... maybe the story does not fit with your imagination!
                      3. Lyokha Lokhavich
                        Lyokha Lokhavich 19 August 2020 15: 32 New
                        -3
                        I'm just worried that you don't remember who we fought with in the first world ...
                      4. Lyokha Lokhavich
                        Lyokha Lokhavich 19 August 2020 15: 40 New
                        -4
                        well, yes .... I forgot, but these flew and threw off mines. but they flew on the front lines and at night! such could be shot down with any weapon at hand! here it is not necessary from the tank! they were sewn on the front line and from a machine gun! it is a corn planter designed for fertilization. I understand that you have already gone to the extreme to get out of the situation?)))
                      5. Lyokha Lokhavich
                        Lyokha Lokhavich 19 August 2020 15: 44 New
                        -5
                        yes I was right) corn makers were used by the Germans until the 40s) I just checked))
                  2. Lyokha Lokhavich
                    Lyokha Lokhavich 19 August 2020 15: 09 New
                    -2
                    we can certainly view Germany's bombers! minimum empty 14.5 tons ... at a speed of 50-60 km / h? .....
                    1. svp67
                      svp67 19 August 2020 15: 38 New
                      +1
                      Quote: Lyokha Lokhavich
                      we can certainly view Germany's bombers! minimum empty 14.5 tons ... at a speed of 50-60 km / h? .....

                      The last photo I have is Henschel 126, reconnaissance and spotter, but was used as a light bomber, TAKEOFF WEIGHT - 3275 kg ..., above it is a photo of NIGHT LIGHT BOMBER GOTA-145, TAKE-OFF MASS - 1380 kg ...
                      Do you want to continue arguing with me, with your meager stock of knowledge?
            4. svp67
              svp67 19 August 2020 15: 30 New
              0
              Quote: Varyag_0711
              This is where you saw planes fly at such a speed ?!

              I saw it with a smaller one, An-2 with a strong headwind, in general, it flew tail first ... so what?
              1. Grim Reaper
                Grim Reaper 20 August 2020 21: 59 New
                +1
                Quote: svp67
                Quote: Varyag_0711
                This is where you saw planes fly at such a speed ?!

                I saw it with a smaller one, An-2 with a strong headwind, in general, it flew tail first ... so what?

                ... But it's not about an2.
          3. Lyokha Lokhavich
            Lyokha Lokhavich 19 August 2020 13: 39 New
            -6
            Well, in 1) the barrel will not physically rise to such a height, the charging mechanism will not give a place there in an empty tank with a gulkin's nose, and if with the tankers, then they stepped on each other! you see in tanks outplayed! .. further - they would not have pierced in the forehead since the thickness did not allow, and therefore the aces entered the side and only into the side, the manual turning mechanism did not give such an opportunity to turn the tower like a fan, and therefore the tank for the aces became an easy target. it is necessary to stand with a tank on a hill and wait for a lazy to horror fly to fly at you and fly exactly on t 34. but about the stories .. well, there is a story about the Second World War when someone allegedly shot down a plane with a gun ... laughter and that's all! it is impossible and not real ... although no .. you can knock down the corn plant! but only
            1. svp67
              svp67 19 August 2020 15: 26 New
              +2
              Quote: Lyokha Lokhavich
              the trunk will not physically rise to such a height,

              The passed stage ... It is enough to drive on a bump, stump, boulder, as the height of the rise increases ...
              Quote: Lyokha Lokhavich
              further - they would not have pierced the forehead since the thickness did not allow and therefore the aces entered the side and only into the side

              You do not seem to understand or hear that when firing at tanks from an airplane, the tanks tried to hit through the ROOF, where the thickness of the armor was MINIMUM
              1. Lyokha Lokhavich
                Lyokha Lokhavich 19 August 2020 15: 46 New
                -1
                well, yes ... there is a small part left ... it's time to keep ahead of the plane that flies .. at least 350 km.h maximum 600 km.h)))
                1. svp67
                  svp67 19 August 2020 15: 55 New
                  0
                  Quote: Lyokha Lokhavich
                  well, yes ... there is a small part left ... it's time to keep ahead of the plane that flies .. at least 350 km.h maximum 600 km.h)))

                  You wait for him to reach a certain range or point and shoot
              2. Lyokha Lokhavich
                Lyokha Lokhavich 19 August 2020 15: 49 New
                -1
                I get the impression that the German flew on purpose so that he would be shot down, and did everything literally for this)))) and yet I do not believe that the plane was shot down by a tank))) Well, I don’t believe it! no tank is even now capable of shooting down! and even more so at that time
                1. svp67
                  svp67 19 August 2020 15: 56 New
                  +1
                  Quote: Lyokha Lokhavich
                  I get the impression that the German was flying on purpose so that he would be shot down

                  He did not even think that he was already being hunted, he was fulfilling some kind of his task ...
                  1. Revival
                    Revival 24 August 2020 01: 36 New
                    +1
                    In this example, it was about Fieseler Fi 156 "Stoch"
                2. Revival
                  Revival 24 August 2020 01: 35 New
                  +1
                  In that case, it was about
                  Fieseler Fi 156 "Storch".
                  Learn the mat part, otherwise you look ridiculous to say the least
          4. Dr. Frankenstucker
            Dr. Frankenstucker 19 August 2020 16: 37 New
            +2
            As I understand it, they shot down the "Stork"


            in fact, judging by Fadin's memoirs, he knocked down a nylon transport worker.
            but in general, the "tank" memoir is probably the most cheating after the "pilot".
        2. John22
          John22 19 August 2020 10: 03 New
          +2
          Low-flying aircraft were knocked out of tank guns on a collision course.
          1. Lyokha Lokhavich
            Lyokha Lokhavich 19 August 2020 13: 51 New
            -4
            what will go to the forehead of a tank with more than 40 mm armor? well, yes ..... these were planes with guns from tigers))) well, or at least from anti-aircraft guns ... German 8-8))))
            1. svp67
              svp67 19 August 2020 14: 06 New
              +1
              Quote: Lyokha Lokhavich
              what will go to the forehead of a tank with more than 40 mm armor?

              Well, they will go to the side, only the turret of the tank has the ability to turn, and whoever got hit by a tank shell, like you, simply did not believe in it and attacked from any angle, since he was trying to hit not the forehead, but the ROOF of the tank, where is the thickness armor is not big
              1. Lyokha Lokhavich
                Lyokha Lokhavich 19 August 2020 14: 32 New
                -3
                I repeat, the tower of the T34 is not a fan to keep up with the aircraft, the mechanism of the T34 had a manual steering knuckle. the tiger has a mechanical one, but it's not exactly a fan, since people like the T34 easily bypassed them! which suggests that 40 km per hour was enough to destabilize it and gain time for a shot at the side or stern to anyone as convenient
                1. svp67
                  svp67 19 August 2020 14: 39 New
                  0
                  Quote: Lyokha Lokhavich
                  I repeat, the tower of the T34 is not a fan to keep up with the aircraft, the mechanism of the T34 had a manual steering knuckle. the tiger has a mechanical one, but it's not exactly a fan, since people like the T34 easily bypassed them!

                  Have you ever had to shoot at moving targets using the aiming point method? I am 100% sure, and the stories confirm that the pilots were ruined by the fact that they acted stereotyped, making approaches from the same directions, and in this case it was possible to catch them. Each cannon has such a characteristic as the direct shot range, at which the projectile flies almost horizontally, with small changes in altitude. Knowing all these characteristics and having experience in shooting, you can hit.
                  1. Lyokha Lokhavich
                    Lyokha Lokhavich 19 August 2020 15: 17 New
                    -5
                    bf 109 developed a speed of up to 600 km / h and more! the maximum recorded 700 km / h ..... I would like to see how you would shoot down with such a speed, but yes ... and so ... Messer BF 109 accelerated to 600 km / h and weighed 2.5 tons (completely empty ) and the airplane did not go on foot, but dived from the top to the side, which made it impossible for the tank to even target the aircraft! and I would like to see how you in manual mode will turn the handle at a speed of 3000 rpm to shoot ahead of the tank !!!
                  2. Lyokha Lokhavich
                    Lyokha Lokhavich 19 August 2020 15: 22 New
                    -2
                    your (100% believe) does not coincide with the technical and historical capabilities of the technology of those times! it's just technically unrealistic!
                    1. svp67
                      svp67 19 August 2020 15: 29 New
                      +4
                      Quote: Lyokha Lokhavich
                      your (100% believe) does not coincide with the technical and historical capabilities of the technology of those times!

                      And my 100% dealt with the TACTICS of combat use, you don’t know elementary things and don’t try to understand ...
                    2. Lyokha Lokhavich
                      Lyokha Lokhavich 19 August 2020 15: 53 New
                      -1
                      find me a video that a modern tank would shoot down a plane! he is not there, but what has changed? the speed increased by a maximum of 2 times for air, and the capabilities of the tank have increased tenfold since those times! but all exactly they are not capable of shooting down planes
                    3. Lyokha Lokhavich
                      Lyokha Lokhavich 19 August 2020 15: 58 New
                      -1
                      in order for a plane to be shot down by a tank at that time, many factors must merge at one moment, even probably that God would kiss the tankers on the forehead! take into account a cloud of formalities, wind, speed, cold barrel, distance, and even the factor that if he misses a tryndet with it ... so again, this is unrealistic, unless he just stood still and gave the tank several attempts!
        3. Lyokha Lokhavich
          Lyokha Lokhavich 19 August 2020 14: 39 New
          -3
          Well, I don’t know the easel .... they just got off the slingshot, and sometimes they knocked them down with an empty bottle! threw a full bottle of schnapps to the plane's flight level and the pilot simply left the cockpit for it))))
      2. Souchastnik
        Souchastnik 19 August 2020 13: 40 New
        +1
        Trying to accompany the target is not realistic. But if you know the direction, then theoretically you can shoot down shrapnel. If multiple tanks are firing, the chance increases.
        Of three barrels, yes for such a read laughing
        1. Lyokha Lokhavich
          Lyokha Lokhavich 19 August 2020 14: 35 New
          -4
          then the tank becomes an easy target for an unloaded aircraft! no normal person would take such a risk! the tank gets into the plane very, very scanty, and even 3, but the plane has every chance to gouge at least 1 tank!
  3. Pirate
    Pirate 19 August 2020 07: 54 New
    +2
    Such a case is described by Carius "Tigers" in the mud. Memories of a German tankman "
    “Cramer, overwhelmed by the inexorable onslaught of these guys, raised his cannon in the plane's line of motion. I gave him permission to fire. He took a chance and pulled the trigger. On the second try, he hit one of the "bees" in the wing. The Russian crashed behind us. "
    “My gunner, Sub-Officer Kramer, can take charge of a case that was probably unparalleled on the Eastern Front. That is, he managed to shoot down a Russian fighter with a Tiger tank gun. "
    1. Lyokha Lokhavich
      Lyokha Lokhavich 19 August 2020 13: 53 New
      -6
      here is your knowledge of tigers is beautiful) and about the IS-2? what about the ZIS gun? ZIS cannons simply tore off the towers of your vaunted tigers! well, we didn't know that)))
  4. Lyokha Lokhavich
    Lyokha Lokhavich 19 August 2020 13: 29 New
    -5
    YES SHOW YOU DOWN THE DIGNITIES OF THE TIGER))) I have not heard about the 3rd front?)) Do you know how many UFOs were shot down by the tigers? wow ... it can't be counted, but one is said to be a UFO flew to the moon ... still not curled up)))))))) and he also drowns submarines like from a bush)) he catches and drowns right at the bottom)) )
  • Pirate
    Pirate 19 August 2020 09: 00 New
    0
    TANKFEST in Bovington - England.
    Tiger 1 Tank '131' meets Leopard 1 and Leopard 2
    1. Pirate
      Pirate 19 August 2020 09: 03 New
      0
      Who puts the cons?
  • deddem
    deddem 18 August 2020 18: 40 New
    +6
    Quote: svp67
    The control mechanism of the "Tiger" was stolen from the French "Somua", and the viewing prisms - from the Americans
    So what. To take the best from the enemy and use it, EVERYTHING ALWAYS did this ...


    ... Moreover, the simplified and modified two-line swivel mechanism was subsequently used on AT-T and motorcycling.
  • Pavel57
    Pavel57 18 August 2020 19: 19 New
    +1
    Interestingly, but rather not Hitler drove the first tigers into the swamp.
  • Ryaruav
    Ryaruav 18 August 2020 19: 23 New
    -6
    tiger-1 is the best heavy tank of the second world, but what about the is-2, Baryatinsky writes: the is-2 is the best heavy tank if you equip it with a German tiger cannon
    1. mister-red
      mister-red 18 August 2020 23: 08 New
      +2
      The IS-2 and the Tiger are different heavy tank concepts. The IS-2 with the Tiger cannon is a pointless thing. Your Baryatinsky would have written "IS-2 with a D-10 100mm cannon" better, this is a more correct version.
    2. EvilLion
      EvilLion 19 August 2020 12: 27 New
      -2
      Baryatinsky writes a lot of delusional fabrications.
    3. Lyokha Lokhavich
      Lyokha Lokhavich 19 August 2020 13: 56 New
      -3
      they outplayed toys))) the is-2 with the ZIS cannon forced the crew of the tiger tank to collect things on the move and get out of the tank collectively))))
  • Undecim
    Undecim 18 August 2020 19: 24 New
    15
    For some reason, the author stopped halfway and did not give the results of shelling Soviet tanks with a tiger cannon and did not consider the measures that the Military Council of the Armored and Mechanized Forces of the Red Army proposed to urgently take based on the test results.
    .
    The 88 mm tank gun installed on the T-VI tank penetrates the armor of our tanks with an armor-piercing shell from a distance:

    1. The most durable part of the T-34 tank hull is the bow beam (cast, 140 mm thick), as well as frontal and turret armor from 1500 meters.

    2. The most durable frontal part of the KV-1 tank, 105 mm thick (75 mm main armor + 30 mm screen) from 1500 meters.

    To provide tank and mechanized formations with the means of fighting T-VI tanks, I ask you:

    1. To oblige the Narkomtankoprom (Comrade Zaltsman2) to install 34 mm cannons (ZIS-57) on T-4 tanks at the rate of 2-3 tanks with a 57 mm cannon for every ten tanks. At the same time, the People's Commissariat of Ammunition and the GAU KA should be obliged to set up the production of 57 mm high-explosive fragmentation projectiles as soon as possible.

    2. Give instructions to the People's Commissariat of Ammunition and GAU KA to urgently work out:

    a) an armor-piercing (solid) projectile for the 76 mm F-34 tank gun, capable of penetrating the 82 mm side armor of a T-VI tank from a distance of at least 600 meters;

    b) an APCR shell for the 76 mm F-34 tank gun, capable of penetrating the frontal 100 mm armor of the T-VI tank from a distance of 500 meters.

    3. To oblige the People's Commissariat for Tank Industry (Comrade Zaltsman) to produce by June 1, 1943, on the basis of the chassis of the T-70 tank, three models of SU-57 SPGs armed with a 57 mm cannon.

    The specified GBTU spacecraft samples should be tested within ten days and the results should be reported to the GKOK no later than June 10, 1943.

    4. Produce by June 1st of this year. based on the SU-152, a sample SPG armed with a 122 mm cannon, model 1931, and continue to produce such SPGs on a par with the SU-152.

    5. Give the task to Comrade. Grabina3 urgently produced for the IS tank a sample of a powerful 100 mm tank gun capable of penetrating 120-130 mm armor from a distance of 2000 meters.

    6. To oblige the People's Commissariat of Armaments, together with the GAU KA, to complete tests of the prototype Blum anti-tank rifle in the shortest possible time in order to make a decision on the introduction of the Blum rifle into the Red Army's armament.

    7. To oblige the People's Commissariat for Tank Industry (Comrade Zaltsman) to install an 85 mm cannon on the IS tank with the tactical and technical data set forth in the appendix.
    1. Mavrikiy
      Mavrikiy 18 August 2020 20: 15 New
      -8
      Quote: Undecim
      Give an assignment to comrade Grabina3 urgently produced for the IS tank a sample of a powerful 100 mm tank gun capable of penetrating 120-130 mm armor from a distance of 2000 meters.

      Unimaginable stupidity. A completely new tank with a more powerful base is needed for such a gun. What will happen to the shoulder strap? smash, crush by recoil. The Germans managed to deliver the 88 anti-aircraft gun because there was a wide, heavy platform that could withstand recoil. request
      1. antivirus
        antivirus 18 August 2020 21: 51 New
        -4
        in the measures and assignments, it was already clear (before their implementation) our additional losses and the cost of reducing the "payment in the blood of Vankov".
        the people and the army are one - the slogan worked
      2. mister-red
        mister-red 18 August 2020 23: 11 New
        +5
        Can be more. That is, 122 mm is possible, 100 mmm - no.
        SU-100 with D-10 based on T-34 seemed to be normal. And then on the T-54-55. And on the IS in any way?
        1. Mavrikiy
          Mavrikiy 18 August 2020 23: 38 New
          -6
          Quote: mister-red
          Can be more. That is, 122 mm is possible, 100 mmm - no.
          SU-100 with D-10 based on T-34 seemed to be normal. And then on the T-54-55. And on the IS in any way?

          Exactly. The SU-100 did not have a shoulder strap. The axis of the gun is below the axis of the tank gun. The IS has a small shoulder strap.
          Look VO from July 14, 2012 "Domestic tank guns. Family of 100-mm D-10T tank guns"
          But T-34 tanks equipped with 100-mm cannons did not enter service. The reasons for this were that its undercarriage for the LB-1 cannon was clearly weak, and the war came to an end.
          1. mark1
            mark1 19 August 2020 07: 02 New
            +2
            Quote: Mavrikiy
            The IS has a small shoulder strap.

            Well, what is he small -1800 mm, almost the same as that of the T-54
        2. svp67
          svp67 19 August 2020 05: 50 New
          +3
          Quote: mister-red
          Can be more. That is, 122 mm is possible, 100 mmm - no.

          There is such a thing as the convenience of loading, it should, in particular, be ensured by the geometric dimensions of the fighting compartment in place of the loader. The available volume did not allow for normal manipulations with a unitary 100-mm projectile due to the large length of the latter, but separate-loading 122-mm artillery rounds did it.
          1. Lyokha Lokhavich
            Lyokha Lokhavich 19 August 2020 14: 09 New
            -7
            you amuse me))) loading volume ?? KA-KAVO it .... here it is, what a mikhalych)))) loading volume))) and there was no zone of destruction of the gas attack of frightened tankers?))) Did you see the t34 from the inside? and t54-55? and is? and is-2? go to the museum and see)))
      3. Sahalinets
        Sahalinets 19 August 2020 05: 34 New
        +2
        What nonsense? The diameter of the IS turret ring is 1800 mm. A 122-mm gun was quietly placed there. And the version with the 100-mm S-34 cannon was tested (object 245), everything went there perfectly and worked. But the 122-mm projectile had a much better high-explosive effect, and at that time it was not inferior to the 100-mm one in terms of armor penetration.
        The data on 100-mm shells that are in Wiki were achieved only after the war, when the shells were seriously modified.
        1. Alexey RA
          Alexey RA 19 August 2020 09: 53 New
          0
          Quote: Sahalinets
          But the 122-mm projectile had a much better high-explosive effect, and at that time it was not inferior to the 100-mm one in terms of armor penetration.

          At the start of production of the IS-2, the 122 mm BBS had an absolute advantage over the 100 mm. Because the serial 100-mm BBS went to the troops only in November 1944. smile
          The history is well-known - it is to this fact that the "intermediate" SU-85M owes its appearance. This tank destroyer was produced only because for the SU-100, which was already ready for production, there were no main shells - armor-piercing, and the front needed an ACS to replace the failed ones.
        2. EvilLion
          EvilLion 19 August 2020 16: 24 New
          +1
          It was inconvenient to work with long shells, and there were only 29 shots against 28. The game was not worth the candle.
    2. sevryuk
      sevryuk 18 August 2020 23: 57 New
      -5
      Heavy tank from medium religion (smerdyakovs) does not allow? Who ultimately accepted the surrender at Karlshorst?
    3. svp67
      svp67 19 August 2020 05: 46 New
      0
      Quote: Undecim
      did not miscalculate the measures that the Military Council of the Armored and Mechanized Forces of the Red Army proposed to urgently take based on the test results.

      Well then, you also indicate the date of this decision ... And then a lot is not clear.
      At one time, the KV-13 was called "IS", and where did the KV-85 project go?
  • silberwolf88
    silberwolf88 18 August 2020 20: 21 New
    +1
    All the experience ... and it's good that the USSR Armed Forces approached research so fundamentally during the war on vulnerability ... and the Tiger was a really serious weapon ... and very dangerous
  • Undecim
    Undecim 18 August 2020 21: 55 New
    +4
    Gearbox "Adler"
    The gearbox was a Maybach Olvar.
  • Constanty
    Constanty 18 August 2020 23: 15 New
    +2
    Despite the complexity and massiveness of the staggered arrangement of the skating rinks, the "Bulletin of Tank Industry" indicates that the Germans had no other choice. With a tank mass of 56 tons, only such a scheme made it possible to install the vehicle on external rubber cushioning. In all other schemes, the rubber tire would not withstand gigantic loads.


    The Germans had a different way out! - this is the chassis of the competing tank - Tiger (P) and the self-propelled gun "Ferdinand" created on its basis, the weight of which eventually reached 70 tons! - no external rubber shock absorption, but the Germans had a way out - Internal wheel shock absorption has many advantages, and the Germans used it successfully - the wheels were lighter, just as strong and used up much less scarce rubber.

    the staggered arrangement of the ice rinks is more a requirement of the daffodil Knikamp from Waffenprüfamt 6 (or perhaps due to his desire for the usual financial gain due to royalties for his patent)
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Free wind
    Free wind 19 August 2020 04: 08 New
    0
    The article is interesting. but there are many inaccuracies.
  • Pushkowed
    Pushkowed 19 August 2020 09: 13 New
    0
    KB-30 grenade
    This is an RPG-43.

    Then there was a rifle jumping mine of the plant # 627
    And this is TPM-627. In fact - a cumulative rifle grenade (with 360 g of explosives) in a disposable firing device directed upwards.
  • Eskobar
    Eskobar 19 August 2020 11: 35 New
    -2
    Yes, the failure of Operation Citadel began with Hitler's decision to send the Tigers to Leningrad. Having received the trophies in advance, the Soviet designers were able to prepare in advance for the Kursk Bulge.
  • Kostadinov
    Kostadinov 19 August 2020 11: 41 New
    0
    For some reason the author stopped halfway and did not give the results of shelling Soviet tanks with a tiger cannon

    The 88 mm cannon penetrated the armor of Soviet tanks well, but the idea of ​​converting a tank from a 28 ton machine to suppress machine guns and minimets and developing an operation in depth, into a 56 ton tank destroyer, was fundamentally wrong. The 88 mm guns on the Kursk Bulge practically did not hit HE shells.
    Very vulnerable hammer and 28 mm horizontal projection, like all other tanks. On average, 20-40 shot field artillery 76-122 mm at a visible stationary target for 4-6 kilometers was enough for a direct hit by the HE shell and often hit the tank with obvious very unpleasant consequences.
  • Selevc
    Selevc 20 August 2020 11: 14 New
    0
    The Tiger is generally one of the unsuccessful tanks of World War II ... Unsuccessful because the tank was used in the offensive and was designed based on a defensive concept - that is, it has thick armor and relatively slow speed.
    The Tiger and King Tiger tanks are not designed to hit deep without the clear support of rem brigades ....
    These tanks can be safely given two marks on such design criteria as versatility and mobility !!!

    The course of World War II confirms the complete failure of Hitler's concept of rearming his army to the wunderwafli and fully proves the wisdom of the concept of the Allied countries in which the main emphasis was placed on the mass production of armored vehicles with minimal improvements during the war. And as they say, Thank God !!!
    1. Selevc
      Selevc 20 August 2020 12: 07 New
      +1
      Moreover, when you look at the German tanks Panther, Tiger and Royal Tiger, you get the impression that the Germans had traitors or partisans in their design bureau and with their design only harmed the Fuhrer's army !!! )))
      In fact, the Tigers and Panthers appeared just at a time when the Nazis were standing near Moscow and Stalingrad, and they seemed to be planning to advance right up to the Urals and maybe further into Western Siberia !!! And based on elementary logic, the Germans in the 42-43-ies needed a lot of light tanks for the offensive !!! And instead of this, these hulks appear that are generally difficult to use in an offensive, if only because not every Soviet bridge east of Moscow and Stalingrad can withstand 50-60 tons !!!
      At the same time, note that Hitler had at his disposal the entire tank industry of France, the Czech Republic and the rest of Europe.
      Based on the above, the strategic decisions of the Nazi elite in the field of tank building in 41-43 must be recognized as extremely stupid !!!

      It is often said that the Tigers had thick armor and a powerful 88mm cannon ... But guys - the armor and the power of the cannon are far from the main thing in the design of the tank !!! Moreover, an offensive tank !! Everyone knows the law of physics, which says that the greater the mass of the body, the more inert it is ... So it is more difficult to disperse a 50-60 ton colossus in battle and more difficult to stop and most importantly it is more difficult to maneuver it !!! The tiger could not get up to such maneuvers on the battlefield as the same average T-34 !!! And therefore, it was a more convenient target for any anti-tank crew and of course more often elementary stuck !!!
      1. Alexey RA
        Alexey RA 21 August 2020 10: 54 New
        0
        Quote: Selevc
        In fact, the Tigers and Panthers appeared just at the time when the Nazis were standing near Moscow and Stalingrad, and they seemed to be planning to advance right up to the Urals and maybe further into Western Siberia !!! And based on elementary logic, the Germans in 42-43 needed a lot of light tanks for the offensive !!!

        The performance characteristics of the Tiger were finally installed a month before the start of Barbarossa. In July 1941, three experimental tanks and one hundred tanks of the first series were ordered. This tank was not created against the USSR at all - it was supposed to go to the troops after the planned defeat of the USSR. And he had to fight with the allies.
        As for the "Panther", its history began with a tank weighing 20 tons. But the experience of the war in the East showed the futility of such tanks:
        On December 17, 1941, representatives of Wa Pruef 6 notified all three firms that further development of the 20-ton tank was deemed unpromising and the project "migrated" to the 30-ton category.
        © D. Shein
        In May 1942, it was decided to thicken the frontal armor to 80 mm. And as a result of all sorts of improvements, the project of a 30-ton tank produced a 45-ton one.
        Quote: Selevc
        And based on elementary logic, the Germans in 42-43 needed a lot of light tanks for the offensive !!!

        It will not work - for such a horde there will not be enough people and rear capabilities. By 1942, the German rear could provide only one direction of the strategic offensive.
        In addition, many light tanks are heavy losses (since from November 1941 45-mm anti-tank vehicles received "undercut shells").
        Quote: Selevc
        The tiger could not get up to such maneuvers on the battlefield as the same average T-34 !!!

        Quite the opposite - the control of the Tiger was much easier than the T-34. It was not enough for the T-34 mechanized drives to exert 30-35 kg on the control levers, so even gear shifting led to a slowdown of the tank up to a stop, and at the same time there was a danger of turning off the engine. Before the introduction of the five-stage T-34, the entire battle went in second gear.
        1. Selevc
          Selevc 21 August 2020 12: 21 New
          0
          Quote: Alexey RA
          This tank was not created against the USSR at all - it was supposed to go to the troops after the planned defeat of the USSR. And he had to fight with the allies.

          What allies ??? There were no buyout by the beginning of 1941 in continental Europe ???
          As for the "Panther", its history began with a tank weighing 20 tons. But the experience of the war in the East showed the futility of such tanks.
          Complete nonsense !!! The experience of the war in the East showed the strength of light and medium tanks !!! You look with what Germany attacked the USSR? Yes, they have almost 50% of them are tanks made in France, the Czech Republic and the rest of Europe !!! And compare what successes Barbarossa achieved !!! For weeks - maximum months, an area the size of half of Europe was captured !!!
          Light tanks are easier to transfer from one sector of the front to another. Light tanks are easier to repair and maintain and have a lot of advantages !!!
          In May 1942, it was decided to thicken the frontal armor to 80 mm. And as a result of all sorts of improvements, the project of a 30-ton tank produced a 45-ton one.
          Do you want to call this an achievement of the Wehrmacht designers ??? And I think this is an absurd attempt by Hitler Germany to catch up with the USSR in the production of high-quality tanks !!!
          It will not work - for such a horde there will not be enough people and rear capabilities. By 1942, the German rear could provide only one direction of the strategic offensive.
          In addition, many light tanks are heavy losses (since from November 1941 45-mm anti-tank vehicles received "undercut shells").
          It's just complete nonsense !!! All of Europe at that time stood behind Hitler - human and material resources are many times higher than Soviet ones !!! Do not forget that a coalition of European states fought against the USSR and not only Germany !!! Moreover, France, occupied in 1940, fought on Hitler's side. The USSR experienced difficulties in 41-42, simply orders of magnitude higher than the Occupied Europe, and nevertheless the USSR evacuated and launched dozens if not hundreds of defense enterprises ... And for some reason Germany could not use the READY production potential of France and the Czech Republic! !! Plus Hitler captured a lot of captured Soviet equipment in the summer of 41 ...
        2. Selevc
          Selevc 21 August 2020 12: 39 New
          0
          Quite the opposite - the control of the Tiger was much easier than the T-34. It was not enough for the T-34 mechanized drives to exert 30-35 kg on the control levers, so even gear shifting led to a slowdown of the tank up to a stop, and at the same time there was a danger of turning off the engine. Before the introduction of the five-stage T-34, the entire battle went in second gear.
          Stop lying !!! Find me at least one !!! AT LEAST ONE VIDEO of the real offensive of the Tigers ... The network is full of films with frightening titles "Terrible predator", "Teutonic monster" and so on - complete bullshit !!! In these films there is a video of the shooting Tiger, there is a video of the Tigers in the convoy on the march, there is a video of the dashing commander on the Tiger !!! And the video with the kind of attacking tanks shows T-3 and T4 !!!
          I dont know. for whom it is intended - but a primitive lie !!!

          And if there is a real video of Tyrov in the attack, you will immediately see the disadvantages that are inherent in all heavy tanks of that era - low speed and almost complete lack of maneuver !!! That is, these hulks were brought along the railway almost to the very battlefield, and then they pearled with an avalanche almost right through and, preferably, on a flat terrain like a billiard table !!!
          By the way, I read somewhere that during the Battle of Kursk, a certain number of Tigers and Panthers simply did not have time to reach the battlefield and just got bogged down in mud and ditches along the roadsides ...

          I'm not saying that the T-34 is an ideal tank - it had its own shortcomings and perhaps some even quite serious ones ... But on the T-34 the golden mean of speed-armor is perfectly observed !!! And the German T-3 and T-4 are under-armored tanks and the Tigers, on the contrary, are over-armored !!! That is, the German designers until the end of the war were unable to maintain this balance that the designers of the USSR had already created at the end of the 30s !!!
  • Jager
    Jager 20 August 2020 19: 33 New
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    I believe that ours were late with the birth of the T-34/85 and KV-85 (IS-1/2) by at least six months. Technical reconnaissance worked disgustingly, or they did not attach importance to its reports, because the "Tiger" got into the training units in the summer of 42nd. Plus, at the front, even then they faced the modernized Pz IV Ausf. F2 / H which have become a serious problem. To think that the Germans will stop at the "four" is at least silly. In fact, until the winter of 44 we could do little to oppose the "menagerie". But there were objective reasons - the weakness of the industry, which worked for wear and tear and was at the limit of its capabilities. And the inevitable reduction in production when new models are launched.
    The Tiger checkpoint alone had more man-hours in production than the entire T-34.
  • -Dmitry-
    -Dmitry- 17 September 2020 18: 34 New
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    The good news came with a 52-K 85mm anti-aircraft gun. This gun confidently penetrated the side of the tank from 1000 meters, head-on from 500 meters.


    The author is either deliberately lying or remembers the report very badly. I once studied this report up and down (because I had to argue with the stoned "germphiles"). So, the NLD Tiger (which has thicker armor than the VLD, since the NLD has a greater angle of inclination), 52-K penetrated from 1000 m, the sides from 1500 m.
  • -Dmitry-
    -Dmitry- 17 September 2020 20: 46 New
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    Quote: Alexey RA
    Quite the opposite - the control of the Tiger was much easier than the T-34. It was not enough for the T-34 mechanized drives to exert 30-35 kg on the control levers, so even gear shifting led to a slowdown of the tank up to a stop, and at the same time there was a danger of turning off the engine. Before the introduction of the five-stage T-34, the entire battle went in second gear.


    Don't confuse agility with ease of control. These are 2 big differences. In addition, do not forget that the transmission and engine, so much praised by the author, were not reliable - the tanks broke down very often.
    About the chassis, I think and not worth talking about. Moreover, field repairs were often impossible.

    The performance characteristics of the Tiger were finally installed a month before the start of Barbarossa. In July 1941, three experimental tanks and one hundred tanks of the first series were ordered. This tank was not created against the USSR at all - it was supposed to go to the troops after the planned defeat of the USSR. And he had to fight with the allies.
    As for the "Panther", its history began with a tank weighing 20 tons. But the experience of the war in the East showed the futility of such tanks:


    What allies first? With the British, who draped on their island so that they dropped everything they could? Or with the French, who were enslaved in less than a month? There was no smell of Americans then. Secondly, in the German classification of those years (late 30s), slot 4 was generally a heavy tank. Therefore, it is not surprising that in the Blitzkrieg doctrine, a heavy breakthrough tank was weighing up to 30 tons.
  • Edvid
    Edvid 21 September 2020 02: 23 New
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    Something is not mentioned PTABs (anti-tank aerial bombs), which turned out to be the most effective anti-tank weapons. Until 1943, when Soviet aircraft unexpectedly attacked German tanks (at a stop, rest ...), their crews immediately hid in their steel boxes. When the Germans tested PTABs on themselves, then under similar conditions above, their crews, on the contrary, threw the tank and fled to earthen shelters. In the memoirs of some surviving German, I read the case with his part on the Kursk Bulge. Twenty-seven German tanks piled up in a gully for the next offensive. Suddenly they were attacked by IL-2 attack aircraft and literally bombarded with some small bombs, unknown at that time to the Germans. The attack lasted a minute and the planes flew away, and all 27 tanks burned down! ...