Military Review

Everyone except the grenadiers! According to the "precepts" of Peter III

237
Everyone except the grenadiers! According to the "precepts" of Peter III

Guards and people greet Catherine II on the balcony of the Winter Palace on the day of the coup on June 28 (July 9) 1762. Original by Joachim Kestner


No, the people do not feel mercy:
Do good - he will not say thanks;
Robbery and executions - you will not be worse.
A.S. Pushkin. Boris Godunov

History military clothing. So in previous articlewe stopped at the fact that the reform of the uniforms of the Russian army, conceived by the emperor, can be considered reasonable and justified. Firstly, significant savings in finances, and secondly, such a phenomenon as ... fashion! Going against which at all times has been as stupid as fighting the extremes of its manifestation.


Grenadiers of the Naryshkin Musketeer Regiment, 1756-1761 Colorized illustration. Viskovatov A. V. Part 3. Clothing and weapon Russian troops with the addition of information about banners and standards in the reign of Emperor Peter III, and about the Holstein troops, 1762. SPb., Military printing house, 1842

But most of the Russian military did not see anything good in all these undertakings of the new emperor. The Seven Years' War, in which "the Russians always beat the Prussians," had just ended, and it seemed to them simply ridiculous to put on uniforms that looked like the uniforms of the defeated side. The habit of a spacious dress also affected, which is why they were immediately called "kurguzi". Braids, curls and the requirement to powder the hair also caused dissatisfaction.


Privates of the Leuven cuirassier regiment 1762. Colorized illustration. Viskovatov A. V. Part 3. Clothes and weapons of the Russian troops with the addition of information about the banners and standards in the reign of Emperor Peter III, and about the Holstein troops, 1762. SPb., Military printing house, 1842

By the way, the idea of ​​powdering the hair of the soldiers belongs to Peter I, who borrowed everything in the West, but it happened at the end of his reign, and he did not succeed in doing this either. I didn't have time, to put it simply. Under Peter II, it was again indicated to powder the hair, and wear a hairstyle with a braid on the head. But no one remembered this, dissatisfaction with this demand was directed exclusively to Peter III.


Grenadier officer of the Life Dragoon Regiment, 1756-1762 Viskovatov A. V. Part 3. Clothes and weapons of the Russian troops with the addition of information about the banners and standards in the reign of Emperor Peter III, and about the Holstein troops, 1762. SPb., Military printing house, 1842

The question may arise: why then was all this necessary? All these braids, brooches ... Why was such a strange fashion necessary at all? But ... let's remember medieval Japan ... Many peasants there were rich, richer than samurai, and there was nothing to say about merchants. But a samurai, even the poorest one, could be immediately and very easily identified by his hair and two swords. Identify and have time to bow to him, otherwise you could lose your head!


Miter of the Holstein Guard officer. Viskovatov A. V. Part 3. Clothes and weapons of the Russian troops with the addition of information about the banners and standards in the reign of Emperor Peter III, and about the Holstein troops, 1762. SPb., Military printing house, 1842

And the same thing, only without such extremes, took place in Europe. Why did knights pacing in armor even when it was not required at all, for example, at court? And to be different from the servants, from the lackeys, who are also very richly dressed, but ... differently! The same thing happened in modern times. A system of signs was required that would simultaneously determine the social status and occupation of every person and his place in the social hierarchy. The visible boundary between the soldiers from the people and the officers from the nobility, on the one hand, and the peasants and merchants, on the other, was drawn precisely with the help of clothing. The cut of the military uniform equated the soldier with the officer in the main thing - their service to the Fatherland, but divided them according to their position with all kinds of braids, silver and gold embroidery. The hairstyle also served the same purposes, even with powder, curls and a braid. After all, she immediately visually brought the army closer to the "top" and at the same time removed it from various "black people". So whatever the cost of this fashion, its social significance simply cannot be overestimated!


And this is how the mitra-grenadier of the Leib-dragoon regiment of Emperor Peter III who has come down to us looks like. Cloth, wood, bronze, gilding, enamel, paint. Photo from one of the antiques auctions

By the way, it is quite amusing that, while complaining about the "kurguz" uniforms, none of Peter III's contemporaries who were dissatisfied with them complained that they hinder the movement of a soldier. That is, they did not differ functionally from the Peter's free uniforms. Moreover, kind to our national historians Potemkin, having introduced in 1784-1786. his famous "Potemkin uniform", narrowed the old uniforms even more, and cut off his coattails completely. But no one expressed any complaints about the Potemkin jackets. But to the uniforms of Peter III, in fact the same jackets, only with short folds - all and sundry. So, the point here is not at all in the uniforms, but ... in the personality of the one who introduced them! The circumstance is very, very characteristic in Russia even today!


Miter of the Holstein Guard artillerymen. Viskovatov A. V. Part 3. Clothes and weapons of the Russian troops with the addition of information about the banners and standards in the reign of Emperor Peter III, and about the Holstein troops, 1762. SPb., Military printing house, 1842

True, they said that the soldiers in new uniforms were cold in winter. But ... after all, it was under Peter III that a frock coat and such a type of clothing as an epancha appeared in the army, moreover with sleeves, which became the prototype of the future greatcoat, which Emperor Paul I introduced in 1799. And here it is necessary to pay attention to another very important circumstance - the development of the functionality of military clothing.


The uniform of the headquarters officer of the Preobrazhensky Life Guards Regiment. Russia. 1761-1762. Belonged to Emperor Peter III. State Historical Museum, Moscow

The fact is that the old Peter's uniform was a universal garment, so to speak, "in winter and summer in one color." The new trend in the development of uniforms, however, was directed in a different direction, namely, to its seasonal division into summer and winter, and functional - to work, everyday, marching, and ceremonial. That is, those who criticized the new uniforms suffered simply from inertia of thinking and tried to preserve the old approaches to "building" a soldier's uniform. But this attitude, again, is in no way rational. It's all one solid psychology!


So, for example, the new grenadier hats, which were introduced by Peter III, were lighter than the old Elizabethan ones by 200-300 g, since less metal was used for them (which, on the whole, gave quite a lot of metal savings!), And lighter and more comfortable than leather helmets. appeared in the guards under Peter I. They were scolded, but (such is the force of inertia of thinking) they continued to be worn under Catherine. However, I did not like the fact that all these elements of the new military suit were in many ways similar to the Prussian ones ... "and the Russians beat the Prussian ones."


Unique mitra-grenadier of the Holstein guard of Peter III. The fact is that on her forehead there is the emperor's monogram, composed ... of the Latin letters "P" (Peter) and "F" (Fedorovich). This monogram is also known for printing on a trial silver coin, issued in 1762. Penza Regional Museum of Local Lore)

Another example of the ill-considered innovations of Peter III was the replacement of red cloth in new uniforms with cloth of light colors: white, fawn, yellow or orange (and the color of the uniform could be chosen by the regimental commander!). Again, it is clear that in this way Peter III wanted to bring the Russian uniform closer to the Prussian one. On the other hand, it also made practical sense. Let us recall that in Europe only England allowed to dress its army in red uniforms, and all because good red paint for cloth (cochineal) was very expensive and it was imported to Russia from abroad. And dyed cloth for officers' uniforms was bought in the same England. There were also cheaper dyes based on bedstraw root, but the color quality was poor, and most importantly, when they were used, inconsistencies in shades were obtained. The simple abolition of red cloth was achieved, firstly, considerable savings, since light-colored paints were much cheaper. And secondly, it made it easier to achieve uniformity of color for each shelf separately, which was also quite logical. It was quite logical, but ... not national or patriotic! And the young emperor did not even think about this. But what to do, Pushkin has not yet written his "Boris Godunov" and the following words have not sounded from his pages: "But what is he strong? Not by an army, no, not by Polish help, but by opinion; Yes! people's opinion ”. Everything was exactly the same here. Popular opinion was not on the side of the young emperor, so everything he did was ... bad, and everything old and consecrated by traditions was, accordingly, good. It's just that the eternal struggle of the new with the old in this case, like a wheel from a cart, "rolled" over the fate of one single person, and it cost him his life. And he was not the first on this path, and he should not be the last!


Another mitra-grenadier of Peter III. Cloth, wood, bronze, gilding, enamel, paint. Height 28,5 cm. Judging by the richness and quality of decoration, it belonged to an officer. A feature of its design is as many as three emblems! A double-headed eagle at the top and a double coat of arms below it. Again, the Russian on the right and the coat of arms of Peter himself, the hereditary Holstein-Gottorp, on the left. At the bottom of his monogram - one letter "P". Probably the most beautiful miter in the entire history of their use in the Russian army. Penza Regional Museum of Local Lore



But this miter is clearly a private. It is simpler. Not so richly decorated, although it contains all the same images! Penza Regional Museum of Local Lore

The most interesting thing, however, happened later. The emperor died (and it doesn't matter from what reasons) in 1762. His wife Catherine, who inherited Peter's, immediately canceled all of his decrees and thus won the "love" of all the "traditionalists" in Russia. However, she did all this only to, after a little hesitation, carry out the same reforms in the future, but on her own behalf. So, in 1763, the uniform reform began. A year later, the State Military Collegium published an illustrated book with descriptions of samples of uniforms by type of service and all army ranks under the title: "Description of military uniforms, confirmed by the signature of Her Imperial Majesty." It is clear that in just one year that has passed since the death of Peter III, Catherine simply physically could not have prepared her own reform of the army uniform, which means that she used everything that was previously conceived by none other than Peter III.


Illustration from the "Description of the uniforms of military dress, confirmed by the signature of Her High Imperial Majesty"


The same illustration, but colored

And the goal of the new reform, like the previous one, was ... economy! Yes, the red color on camisoles and trousers was retained (or rather, it was canceled to replace it with other colors), but at the same time all old Elizabethan uniforms were ordered to be cut and curbed as much as possible. This decision made it possible to quickly dress the entire army in new uniforms, without giving it a single centimeter of new cloth. And now no one blamed the Empress for the cut of the new uniforms very similar to the Prussian ones. The main thing is that their color was preserved! The uniforms that were taken from the Holsteinites of Peter III, who were stripped to their underwear after their arrest, were also not lost. Everything that could be used in the Russian army was used! Blue uniforms and light-colored pants were given to cavalry for remaking, and cuirassier uniforms were given to cuirassiers. Only the cloth grenadiers, who did not fit the new uniforms either by the design on their forehead plates or by their colors, remained in the Zeichhaus. That is why, by the way, there are so many of them in Russian museums, but there are no Holstein shoes, no uniforms, no pants. All this has been used!


It's not often that you see a picture in which the victim of a crime stands arm in arm with a murderer! Grand Duke Peter Fedorovich and his wife, Grand Duchess Ekaterina Alekseevna. Wedding portrait by G. Grot 1745

That is, the new "Catherine's" uniform, both in cut and in details, differed very little from what her late husband had proposed, and the reforms of 1763 and 1774. only brought his plans to life. And it could not be otherwise, because the fashion for army clothes was then connected with the fact that it was to show everyone (first of all, potential opponents!) That we are not worse than everyone else, that in front of him is not the army of an impoverished minor power, ossified in their national traditions, but a completely modern, European-style uniform, armed and trained army, with which it is best not to deal. That is, the only difference was that Peter III intuitively understood all this, but ... did not understand the national specifics of his reign. And Catherine perfectly understood precisely this component of her reign, and as for the uniforms, she simply trusted the experience of “knowledgeable people” who understood well how the army of a modern and strong state should look like!

Использованная литература:

1. Beskrovny L. G. Russian army and navy in the 1958th century. M., XNUMX.
2. Anisimov E. V. Russia without Peter. 1725-1740. SPb., 1994.
3. Malyshev V.N. Reforms of Peter III in army clothes // The military past of the Russian state: lost and preserved. Materials of the All-Russian scientific and practical conference dedicated to the 250th anniversary of the Memorable Hall. SPb., 2006.
4. Bespalov A. V. Army of Peter III. 1755-1762 // Technology for youth, 2003.
5. Viskovatov A. V. Part 3. Clothes and weapons of Russian troops during the reign of the Duke of Courland and Princess Anne of Braunschweig-Luneburg in 1740 and 1741; Clothes and weapons of the Russian troops with the addition of information about the banners and standards in the reign of Emperor Peter III, and about the Holstein troops, 1762. SPb., Military printing house, 1842.
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On the mitres and uniforms of Emperor Peter III
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  1. Mavrikiy
    Mavrikiy 21 August 2020 05: 49 New
    0
    It's not often that you see a picture in which the victim of a crime stands arm in arm with a murderer! Grand Duke Peter Fedorovich and his wife, Grand Duchess Ekaterina Alekseevna. Wedding portrait by G. Grot 1745
    Interestingly, Peter's uniform lapel covered the star of the order, which crossed the button repeat .
    that before him is not the army of an impoverished minor power, ossified in its national traditions,
    You Zin run up against rudeness. You strive to offend all Zin.
    1. Catfish
      Catfish 21 August 2020 06: 18 New
      +8
      Interestingly, Peter's uniform lapel covered the star of the order, which crossed the button

      Here it is generally not clear what is painted, remove your faces and go figure out who owns what there.

      But Olegovich is still a huge thank you for the new entertainment. good drinks
      1. Korsar4
        Korsar4 21 August 2020 06: 22 New
        +6
        What about the color of the ribbon? Parents of boys and girls - on the issue of heirs from maternity hospitals.
        1. Catfish
          Catfish 21 August 2020 06: 33 New
          +9
          What they never bothered with was the color of the ribbons. And in general he rode his son in a red carriage, and he managed to take it with a fight in the "Children's World", and even then with the help and support of friends. smile
          And as for them, with the kings, only Allah knows. request
          1. Korsar4
            Korsar4 21 August 2020 06: 39 New
            +7
            Not everyone has to choose: "Which cavalry is better - red or blue?"
            1. Catfish
              Catfish 21 August 2020 06: 45 New
              +9
              Not, if you choose, then white, or red, and then with a blue color, there have been certain problems lately. laughing
            2. Pane Kohanku
              Pane Kohanku 21 August 2020 12: 32 New
              +7
              Not everyone has to choose: "Which cavalry is better - red or blue?"

              Sergei, an interesting fact about the "cavalry". Semyon Poroshin, the teacher of Pavel Petrovich, wrote in his diary that one day he showed the little Tsarevich a model of a Maltese galley. Pavel asked him about the Knights of Malta, and then, having detached the Maltese flag from the model, "and attached it to his cavalry", rejoiced and imagined himself a knight ... winked Well, who after that will say that some dreams do not come true if Paul later became the Grand Master of the desired order? And not from this moment began the heir's passion for knighthood? hi
        2. Pane Kohanku
          Pane Kohanku 21 August 2020 10: 30 New
          +9
          What about the color of the ribbon? Parents of boys and girls - on the issue of heirs from maternity hospitals.

          If we take the blue ribbon of the Order of St. Andrew the First-Called, then Pal Petrovich legalized the obligatory rewarding of all grand dukes (boys, of course) at birth. soldier
          Interesting fact. Has anyone watched a good TV series "Napoleon" with Christian Clavier as "the great emperor"? hi Pay attention to the little things that a knowledgeable person can spoil the impression of Tsar Alexander - on the right. wink

          It is immediately clear that they did not guess with the color of the Andreev ribbon. But take a closer look at what is on his chest! belay We see a certain order, "a cross-shaped plaque" on which from afar looks like a rearing bear. fellow Or, as one wonderful person aptly put it - "this is a sifaka lemur on its hind legs." laughing drinks
          The filmmakers (despite the whole constellation of good artists participating in the series) made the uniform on their knees. negative And in frantic attempts to recreate the highest award of the Russian Empire ... they took some kind of star, and stuck on it a semblance of the Andreev sign - which was worn at the bottom of the ribbon! request

          that's what they did .. order of the name of the lemur-sifaki! laughing drinks
          1. Astra wild
            Astra wild 21 August 2020 21: 32 New
            +1
            Nikolay, I won't say anything about the orders, a complete layman, but Alexander looks more like Bagration: did Alexander 1 have such sideburns?
      2. Mavrikiy
        Mavrikiy 21 August 2020 06: 25 New
        +5
        Quote: Sea Cat
        Here it is generally not clear what is painted, remove your faces and go figure out who owns what there.

        Yes, no, everything is clear. The princess's lace sleeve is normally visible against the background of the prince's white uniform. Don't fragment, look wider, compare to the right sleeve.
  2. Theodore
    Theodore 21 August 2020 06: 41 New
    +6
    Compared to the modern form - well soooo glamuuurno!
  3. The leader of the Redskins
    The leader of the Redskins 21 August 2020 07: 04 New
    +5
    Thank you, Vyacheslav Olegovich. As always, in detail, with a lot of illustrations.
    1. CTABEP
      CTABEP 21 August 2020 19: 43 New
      +1
      Yes, in general, fashion is such a thing ... What once looked cool and fashionable, after 50 years already causes laughter. Like, for example, military uniforms of the 18th century, or there the clothes of the landsknechts (and even the fashion for the mustache of the beginning of the century) - and they were not worn by funny people at all.
  4. kalibr
    21 August 2020 08: 01 New
    +4
    Quote: Sea Cat
    It is generally not clear what is painted here,

    I didn't draw it, sorry!
    1. Catfish
      Catfish 21 August 2020 08: 29 New
      +4
      Vyacheslav hi , and not to you and claims and there is nothing to apologize for.
      1. kalibr
        21 August 2020 08: 34 New
        +5
        I’m joking this morning, Konstantin! Sunny, good mood, in front of the cottage ...
        1. Catfish
          Catfish 21 August 2020 08: 52 New
          +6
          Yes, the weather is sunny today. The cat and I were already walking around the garden early, checked the perimeter, found nothing extraneous, everything is in order. smile
          1. Pane Kohanku
            Pane Kohanku 21 August 2020 12: 19 New
            +8
            The cat and I were already walking around the garden early, checked the perimeter, found nothing extraneous, everything is in order.

            There is still space around the pond to check! Suddenly - girls! wink drinks
            1. Catfish
              Catfish 21 August 2020 13: 30 New
              10
              Well, that's who about what, and the restless Mikola about women. Do you have a problem with girls in St. Petersburg? wink
              Well, okay, I'll amuse a friend, so be it. drinks smile
              1. Pane Kohanku
                Pane Kohanku 21 August 2020 13: 49 New
                +6
                Well, okay, I'll amuse a friend, so be it.

                Oh, Uncle Kostya, did you just draw from life? wink drinks I know I know! wink
                1. Catfish
                  Catfish 22 August 2020 02: 21 New
                  +2
                  No, Kolya. What I drew from nature, I will never post on the network. In general, since my youth, I dabbled in easel graphics.
                  1. Pane Kohanku
                    Pane Kohanku 22 August 2020 22: 14 New
                    +3
                    In general, since my youth, I dabbled in easel graphics.

                    This means that you know about art, unlike me! Respect, Uncle Kostya! drinks
              2. 3x3zsave
                3x3zsave 21 August 2020 14: 01 New
                +6
                "Clean ponds", shy willows,
                How the girls stood by the water "(C) laughing
              3. 3x3zsave
                3x3zsave 21 August 2020 15: 16 New
                +5
                Do you have a problem with girls in St. Petersburg?
                "There is no money for pure love,
                For flowers, for romance, for hobbies,
                For affection, for peace with you,
                Yes, and there is no money for dirt "(C)
              4. Astra wild
                Astra wild 21 August 2020 21: 27 New
                +2
                Konstantin, noticed a long time ago: you like to find illustrations with, say, not quite dressed women.
                I have some comments on the last illustration, but ... consider female jealousy
                1. Catfish
                  Catfish 22 August 2020 02: 19 New
                  +3
                  Sweet Faith love if a "not quite dressed woman" looks great, then there is nothing wrong with not hiding it. And just to look at her from the side with an envious glance, there is nothing reprehensible at all: "Although not mine, but still very pleasant." love
                  1. Astra wild
                    Astra wild 23 August 2020 18: 02 New
                    +1
                    Agree with you
                2. Pane Kohanku
                  Pane Kohanku 22 August 2020 22: 29 New
                  +2
                  I have some comments on the last illustration, but ... consider female jealousy

                  I think, if in our cheerful, but not always adequate company there is a beautiful lady .. you just need to agree with Konstantin about capturing the image! love Moreover, he knows how to draw. good
                  You know ... it's great that we come to discuss the same articles and chat about everything? The world is us! yes
          2. kalibr
            21 August 2020 13: 11 New
            +4
            You well. At your side. And I have to go 19 km from door to door. There I will walk with the cat along the paths. In the meantime, she sleeps on the table in her granddaughter's room.
            1. 3x3zsave
              3x3zsave 21 August 2020 13: 25 New
              +5
              19 km from doorstep to doorstep.
              Straight surprised, Vyacheslav Olegovich! Today in St. Petersburg a dacha near Luga is not considered "very far away."
              Thank you for the article!
              1. kalibr
                21 August 2020 13: 29 New
                +4
                Quote: 3x3zsave
                Today in St. Petersburg

                So Peter, and I'm in Penza! The difference, however, and what!
              2. Mihaylov
                Mihaylov 21 August 2020 15: 12 New
                +5
                Quote: 3x3zsave
                Today in St. Petersburg a dacha near Luga is not considered "very far away."

                "Who cares, but I got the E95 highway"
                1. Pane Kohanku
                  Pane Kohanku 21 August 2020 15: 15 New
                  +5
                  "Who cares, but I got the E95 highway"

                  Yes, I would not say that near Luga is "not very far". At least two and a half hours. It will take about forty minutes to leave the city from the South-West, no less. drinks
                  1. Mihaylov
                    Mihaylov 21 August 2020 15: 21 New
                    +5
                    Quote: Pan Kohanku
                    At least two and a half hours.

                    That is, if there were no traffic jams, the road was launched, of course, but the traffic jam just moved a little further, now beyond Gatchina. A week ago, we returned from Pskov and the Pushkin Mountains on Friday evening: the traffic jam began in the Rozhdestveno-Vyra area and was up to the Gatchina multi-lane bypass. It's good that we went to the city, and not vice versa.
                    1. Pane Kohanku
                      Pane Kohanku 21 August 2020 15: 32 New
                      +6
                      the traffic jam began in the Rozhdestveno-Vyra area and was now a bypass to the Gatchina multi-lane.

                      It starts there. Three weeks ago, I drove even further, because at first there was a fatal accident - near Bekovo a dude drove out to meet the truck. In total, it took about six hours from Pskov to Krasnoselsky district.
                      1. Mihaylov
                        Mihaylov 21 August 2020 15: 39 New
                        +5
                        Quote: Pan Kohanku
                        In total, it took six hours from Pskov to Krasnoselsky district.

                        We arrived in 4, but we drove towards the flow from the city.
                        Quote: Pan Kohanku
                        there was a fatal accident - near Bekovo the dude drove out to meet the truck

                        I do not travel so often on the highways, but once again I was amazed at how some individuals (and there are many of them) go to overtake: up the hill towards the truck, miraculously, the same accident did not happen, and I repeatedly observed this during 4 hours of the trip.
                      2. Pane Kohanku
                        Pane Kohanku 21 August 2020 15: 41 New
                        +7
                        and this is repeatedly observed over a 4 hour trip.

                        A systematic phenomenon, unfortunately. request show-off is more expensive than common sense. Still enraged "obochechniki" when they make three from one row.
                        and Pushkin mountains

                        Have you been to Petrovsky? The best country estate. And near the parking lot at Mikhailovsky (where the "Russian village" is) there is a guest house. Not in the last class, but spending the night in a company for a couple of nights is just that.
                      3. Mihaylov
                        Mihaylov 21 August 2020 15: 56 New
                        +4
                        Quote: Pan Kohanku
                        Have you been to Petrovsky? The best country estate. And near the parking lot at Mikhailovsky (where the "Russian village" is) there is a guest house. Not in the last class, but spending the night a couple of nights with the company is the very thing

                        We didn’t have time to go to Petrovskoe, we left it next time. We visited Mikhailovskoye and Trigorskoye, it was not possible to overcome it in more than 1 day. Petrovskoe and Bugrovo left for later to return. Found Dovlatov's house in the village of Berezovo. We stayed at the Druzhba hotel: since the time of Dovlatov and our last visit there 20 years ago, nothing has changed there, such a lovely Soviet reserve (in a good way). Of course, we visited the Svyatogorsk monastery, in general: "Everything here breathes with Pushkin."
                        At Mikhailovsky's - do you mean the guest house "Arina R."
                      4. Pane Kohanku
                        Pane Kohanku 21 August 2020 16: 03 New
                        +5
                        At Mikhailovsky's - do you mean the guest house "Arina R."

                        No, in the parking lot in Bugrovo - "guest house Bugrovo". I completely forgot that this village has a separate name! The last time I was in Trigorskoye was in 2012.
                        But Petrovskoe and Mikhailovskoe (with the monastery) visited twice after that. Well, I was in Dovlatov's house in 2016. When I walked back down the street from him to the parking lot, I personally saw a fox. Impudent, she ran somewhere in the direction of Dovlatov's house, rounding me in an arc along an empty land plot. laughing
                      5. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 21 August 2020 16: 22 New
                        +5
                        Stayed at the Druzhba hotel
                        I stayed there in 2013. Nice, unobtrusive Soviet service! laughing
                      6. Mihaylov
                        Mihaylov 21 August 2020 16: 36 New
                        +4
                        Quote: 3x3zsave
                        I stayed there in 2013. Nice, unobtrusive Soviet service!

                        Yes, that's right, I would preserve it like this: nostalgia!
                        It's a pity the Lukomorye restaurant was closed, I hope this is due to the coronavirus and it will reopen.
                      7. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 21 August 2020 16: 49 New
                        +4
                        And I was eating in a cafe, I don't remember the name, but tasty and inexpensive.
                        By the way, it's good that I took a lot of cash with me, because in 13 year in Pushgory it was possible to pay with a card only in two places: in "Dixie" and that very "Arina R."
                      8. Mihaylov
                        Mihaylov 21 August 2020 17: 07 New
                        +4
                        Quote: 3x3zsave
                        By the way, it's good that I took a lot of cash with me, because in 13 year in Pushgory it was possible to pay with a card only in two places

                        We had an adventure in Pushgory, it seems in 1999, about 20 years ago, we really could not eat for a day: we arrived at the aforementioned Druzhba hotel late on Friday evening, drove after work, it was 12 o'clock at night, we checked in, we want to eat - horror, the road did not stop, they drove to get there faster. We are in the restaurant Lukomorye - we are not allowed: Teacher's day they say that the restaurant is completely bought out by walking teachers. We say, where can I eat? They looked at us doubtfully and said: "Well, try the Vityaz bar." We went to the Vityaz bar, the girl at the counter told us that she had no food, only offered to drink. But do you have something to eat here? If you want, he says, I will cut the sausages, cut us a stick of sausage with half a barbecue for 7 people, but she really, it seems, had nothing else. They asked about the store: we only have 1 night stall, try it if it's not closed. Thank God - it's open, bought smoked chicken, some other food.
                        In the morning on the beaten path: the Lukomorye restaurant is not allowed, they say they serve the groups until 18-00, come in the evening, the Vityaz bar is not allowed for the same reason. We tried in cooking with pies, heavily fried in oil. We went to Mikhailovskoye-Trigorskoye, we were looking at a summer cafe, we went there, and the saleswoman said, and I actually had already broken up. We say: let's have everything we have. There were: 1 sausage, 4 dumplings, 2 pieces of bread and a handful of green peas (I remember forever). But already at 17-30 we stood at the door of the restaurant Lukomorye waiting for hot food.
                        And now there is civilization: cards, cafes, a decent restaurant by the way, a little lower down the street from the hotel, I forgot the name.
                    2. Pane Kohanku
                      Pane Kohanku 21 August 2020 16: 59 New
                      +5
                      Yes, that's right, I would preserve it like this: nostalgia!
                      It's a pity the Lukomorye restaurant was closed, I hope this is due to the coronavirus and it will reopen.

                      By the way, dear colleagues, do you know where one of the first successful experiments in growing potatoes took place in Russia? This is Suida, Gatchina region. And Abram Petrovich Hannibal grew! drinks there is also a museum-estate.
                    3. Mihaylov
                      Mihaylov 21 August 2020 17: 13 New
                      +4
                      Quote: Pan Kohanku
                      Where did one of the first successful experiments in growing potatoes take place in Russia? This is Suida, Gatchina region. And Abram Petrovich Hannibal grew!

                      Near my dacha, to my shame, I have never been there, I have to call in, gain experience in growing potatoes, otherwise the infection does not grow.
                      By the way, Nikolay, is the estate in Suida almost completely restored, almost from scratch?
                    4. Pane Kohanku
                      Pane Kohanku 21 August 2020 17: 18 New
                      +5
                      By the way, Nikolay, is the estate in Suida almost completely restored, almost from scratch?

                      That’s what I don’t know, I don’t know that, Sergei! But the museum was there .. Only I was not in it! drinks
                      I know that Petrovskoe is the most late-restored in Pushgory. And it was not the Germans who burned it during the Great Patriotic War, no! stop The year in 1918 .. their own .. thieving villans .. wink fellow
                    5. Mihaylov
                      Mihaylov 21 August 2020 17: 24 New
                      +3
                      Quote: Pan Kohanku
                      That’s what I don’t know, I don’t know that, Sergei! But the museum was there .. Only I was not in it!

                      Me too, although I constantly drive by (I'm ashamed).
                      That's it, I went to the dacha, I'll see how my 10 potato bushes are there.
                      Everyone is happy! and have a great weekend!
                    6. Pane Kohanku
                      Pane Kohanku 21 August 2020 17: 26 New
                      +3
                      Me too, although I constantly drive by (I'm ashamed).
                      That's it, I went to the dacha, I'll see how my 10 potato bushes are there.
                      Everyone is happy! and have a great weekend!

                      And you! And to all of us! The world is us! drinks
              3. 3x3zsave
                3x3zsave 21 August 2020 17: 18 New
                +7
                - The program "Your 6 ares" is on air, hosted by A.P. Hannibal. laughing
              4. Pane Kohanku
                Pane Kohanku 21 August 2020 17: 25 New
                +6
                The program "Your 6 ares" is on air, hosted by AP Hannibal.

                And now the news of culture, and their permanent presenter A.S. Pushkin! laughing About poetry:
                - Misha! When you walk with Masha in the park, verse lines come to my mind ...
                - What kind? Pushkin? "I remember a wonderful moment"?
                - Nooo ... Chukovsky ... "The gorilla is walking, the crocodile is leading ..."
                drinks
  • 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 21 August 2020 15: 48 New
    +4
    It will take about forty minutes to leave the city from the South-West, no less.
    Not without it. If I'm on my way, from home to the Dachny exit - 25 minutes. And 20 more before you "hobble".
    1. Pane Kohanku
      Pane Kohanku 21 August 2020 16: 04 New
      +4
      Not without it. If I'm on my way, from home to the Dachny exit - 25 minutes. And 20 more before you "hobble".

      I suffer myself. There is no metro in our area. In the mornings, first I take mine to the center, then to work. And now everyone will come to the city ... And traffic jams will increase.
      1. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 21 August 2020 16: 17 New
        +4
        Yeah, there you still have a pipe on the "circle" of Dachny-Veterans ...
      2. Pane Kohanku
        Pane Kohanku 21 August 2020 16: 22 New
        +4
        Yeah, there you still have a pipe on the "circle" of Dachny-Veterans ...

        We have been building a bridge in Ligovo for three years now, and there is no end in sight for this!
      3. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 21 August 2020 16: 25 New
        +4
        Say thank you for picking up Tallinn.
      4. Pane Kohanku
        Pane Kohanku 21 August 2020 16: 31 New
        +4
        Say thank you for picking up Tallinn.

        from me, wherever you go - at least half an hour traffic jams are guaranteed! As for Dachny, as for Strelna.
      5. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 21 August 2020 16: 53 New
        +3
        I usually "cut" according to Golikov.
      6. Pane Kohanku
        Pane Kohanku 21 August 2020 16: 56 New
        +3
        I usually "cut" according to Golikov.

        If all the peyzane motorists of the area rushed to the dacha and to the shops, cut it off, don't cut it, one hell, you will go for a long time.
      7. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 21 August 2020 17: 05 New
        +3
        Come on stinging! Count how people from Kudrovo, Murino and Bugrov get out!
      8. Pane Kohanku
        Pane Kohanku 21 August 2020 17: 08 New
        +4
        Come on stinging! Count how people from Kudrovo, Murino and Bugrov get out!

        There is generally darkness. request
  • Undecim
    Undecim 21 August 2020 14: 16 New
    +5
    And I have to go 19 km from door to door.
    And I'm 37 from door to door. If with a wife - half an hour is spent on the road.
    1. kalibr
      21 August 2020 20: 15 New
      0
      Quote: Undecim
      If with a wife - half an hour is spent on the road.

      Yes, it's harder for you ...
  • Van 16
    Van 16 21 August 2020 08: 05 New
    +5
    I liked it too. It seems to be nothing special about clothes, but it's interesting!
    Not in the subject - Vyacheslav Olegovich, special thanks for the book "The Crusaders".
    1. kalibr
      21 August 2020 08: 39 New
      +5
      Quote: Van 16
      special thanks for the book "The Crusaders".

      Glad you liked it! And also off topic, but a little about how such books are written. First there was a children's book in St. Petersburg: A School Guide with bright beautiful pictures. Then ... articles on VO, which were published for at least two years. Then it all came together into a book. Something has been added. Then the search for decoration in museums began. Then a book came out ... Next in line in the same publishing house "Warriors of the Bronze Age". But ... you see what is happening with the book market and the market in general. So it has been lying for a year now and there are no particular prospects.
  • Liam
    Liam 21 August 2020 08: 18 New
    +3
    Popular opinion was not on the side of the young emperor.
    )))
    As far as I remember, there were no public opinion polls at that time. And the "people" did not leave their opinion to us in writing, if only because of total illiteracy. So what was the popular or soldier's opinion, we do not know. We know about popular opinion only from the words of the same conspirators.
    What kind of opinion about the real popular attitude towards Peter 3 can be made only by indirect signs. For example, by the fact that Pugachev raised the people to revolt in the "guise" of the surviving Peter 3. Elementary logic tells us that this tsar was popular among the people once this trick worked
    1. kalibr
      21 August 2020 08: 41 New
      +5
      Quote: Liam
      We know about popular opinion only from the words of the same conspirators.

      This is true, of course. Moreover, in terms of the number of impostors, the name of Peter No. 3 is beyond competition. There were probably 40 of them, if not more. But only this also does not speak of the people's love for him. That does not speak and that's it! The fact is that the phenomenon of imposture in Russia is not connected with the people's love for the ruler.
      1. Liam
        Liam 21 August 2020 08: 44 New
        +2
        Quote: kalibr
        But only this also does not speak of the people's love for him. That does not speak and that's it!

        But he definitely speaks of the absence of hatred and "unpopularity"
    2. Astra wild
      Astra wild 21 August 2020 21: 11 New
      0
      Colleague liam, I would not be so categorical about "total illiteracy": the number of birch bark letters (it seems, about 840 of them were found) testifies that there were many literate people in Novgorod. It is unlikely that by the time of Peter 3 the people had completely become illiterate.
      1. Kwas
        Kwas 22 August 2020 18: 17 New
        0
        In general, the situation with education has become clearly worse. The Mongol-Tatar yoke passed, under which only the priests, the troubles, the enslavement of the peasants were not touched. Moreover, Novgorod is the richest, commercial and most developed city of that time in Russia. You cannot compare it with the average level. Moreover, Novgorod also experienced several defeats.
  • Liam
    Liam 21 August 2020 08: 20 New
    -1
    The Seven Years' War has just ended, in which “the Russians always beat the Prussian
    »

    More than a controversial opinion
    1. kalibr
      21 August 2020 08: 42 New
      +3
      Quote: Liam
      More than a controversial opinion
      And who is the author of these words?
      1. Liam
        Liam 21 August 2020 08: 48 New
        +1
        Suvorov. Or ascribed to him. But she prevails in today's "picture of the world" of Russian public opinion regarding the 7-year war
        1. Trilobite Master
          Trilobite Master 21 August 2020 10: 57 New
          +9
          Quote: Liam
          it also prevails in today's "picture of the world" of Russian public opinion regarding the 7-year war

          Oh, it seems we are awaiting another session of exposure of stereotypes that "always cloud the brain." smile
          What is wrong with the traditional vision of the Seven Years War? No, I'm really interested - what do you think is this "picture of the world", which "prevails", what is wrong with it, and how it was "in reality"?
          You have already proven the strength and might of the Visegrad Four smile , is it worth stopping there? smile
          1. Liam
            Liam 21 August 2020 11: 12 New
            -1
            Quote: Trilobite Master
            awaits us

            Who are you? Or are you about yourself in a superlative degree .. We, by God's grace ..)
            Some notes of resentment slip into your words.
            1. Trilobite Master
              Trilobite Master 21 August 2020 11: 34 New
              +6
              "Us" - only because I am far from the idea that you are writing here for me alone. But if only for me - fine, I do not mind.
              So, me waiting for another exposure session? Or secrets hidden
              Quote: Liam
              in today's "picture of the world" of Russian public opinion

              will remain unrevealed today? smile
              And by the way, you are completely in vain to immediately become personal. I still understand when this happens after smart thoughts end, but you have not even begun to expose them yet. I did not offend you and did not intend to, and why you decided that my interest in your epistolary work is of a purely negative character, I do not quite understand.
              Well, yes, your will ...
              Will we continue?
              I am really interested in why you are not satisfied with the traditional view of the Seven Years War.
              1. Liam
                Liam 21 August 2020 11: 49 New
                -1
                Quote: Trilobite Master
                why you are not satisfied with the traditional view of the Seven Years War

                For the same reasons for which the Battle of Borodino was declared victorious.
                Russians always beat Prussians
                It is very interesting to hear how the Russians beat the Prussians at Zorndorf for example
                1. Trilobite Master
                  Trilobite Master 21 August 2020 12: 41 New
                  +8
                  The battle of Borodino is a typical draw with the advantage of the French. How her victory is considered only in school history textbooks, and I don't know for sure, I haven't looked at them for a long time ...
                  And if in Suvorov's phrase you were outraged by the word "always", then after it you can mentally put "in the end" and then everything becomes completely correct. Suvorov, unfortunately (or rather "fortunately" smile ), was not a lawyer, was not a politician and hardly invented his aphorisms on long nights, carefully selecting and honing every word. So, I think you shouldn't cling to this, otherwise it painfully resembles digging into a lamppost. It is perfectly clear to everyone what Suvorov meant. And if we continue in the spirit of nagging the words, then I will say this - Suvorov did not say "beat", he said "beat". You will not deny that at Zorndorf the Russian soldiers "beat" the Prussians and even beat many.
                  As for Zorndorf, there is something to talk about here too. Frederick's goal was to defeat the Russian army, Fermor's goal was to get away from Frederick and unite with Rumyantsev. Frederick did not achieve his goal, Fermor achieved. If you look at the battle from this point of view, then the victory can be attributed to the Russians. Although, by and large, there was also a combat draw, after which no one wanted to "continue the banquet".
                  Well, and there is nothing to say about the outcome of the war - a pure victory for Russian weapons.
                  So, in general, the phrase "the Russians always (in the end) beat the Prussians" is historically quite reliable. I see no reason for revisionism at all.
                  1. Liam
                    Liam 21 August 2020 12: 55 New
                    -1
                    Quote: Trilobite Master
                    And if in Suvorov's phrase you were outraged by the word "always", then after it you can mentally put "in the end"

                    Well, tell us how Russia robbed Prussia at the end of the 7 year war
                    Quote: Trilobite Master
                    Everyone understands perfectly well what Suvorov meant.

                    Again, you fit in for everyone. Usually this happens when your personal position is weak.
                    Quote: Trilobite Master
                    Looking at the battle from this point of view

                    You can only make you smile
                    1. Trilobite Master
                      Trilobite Master 21 August 2020 13: 13 New
                      +9
                      You disappoint me. Where is your own position, thought out and justified, where are the arguments, where are smart thoughts?
                      Quote: Liam
                      Well, tell us how Russia robbed Prussia at the end of the 7 year war

                      Didn't you win? laughing Well, if you need to tell THIS, then I probably pass, don't even persuade ... no All the same, I assumed that I was communicating with a person who had at least an average understanding of history, at least for the top three in high school.
                      Well, the rest you wrote completely "niachom" - pure "Baba Yaga against" laughing
                      It gets boring. The bar will probably be more fun, it doesn't give up so quickly. laughing
                      1. Liam
                        Liam 21 August 2020 13: 17 New
                        -1
                        Write about the ancient tribes. There is scanty material and you can write anything. And the period in question is pretty well studied and documented.
                        PySy. I still really hope that now you are not indulging in cons in the absence of arguments
                      2. Trilobite Master
                        Trilobite Master 21 August 2020 13: 32 New
                        +8
                        I practically do not become cons. Only for outright rudeness. And I usually make a reservation for what exactly.
                        And I brought more arguments than yours, so this shot is also in milk. wink
                        Quote: Liam
                        the period under review is fairly well studied and documented

                        So what's the problem? Formulate your point of view, substantiate, back up with facts ... While I do not see this, alas. Only indistinct expressionless sounds, from which it is not even possible to understand what exactly you want to refute or prove.
                      3. Liam
                        Liam 21 August 2020 14: 01 New
                        -1
                        Quote: Trilobite Master
                        I will not practically become cons

                        And thank God. Putting cons in general is bullshit, of course, but nothing criminal. Putting cons to an opponent with whom you enter into a discussion is petty and badly characterizes as a person.
                        Quote: Trilobite Master
                        Formulate

                        )))
                        Yes, everything seems clear and obvious.
                        During the 7 year war there were 3 big battles with the participation of the Russian army. In two of which the Russians participated independently (Gross-Jägersdorf and Zarndorf). In both cases, the Russian army had an overwhelming numerical advantage. In the first, with a stretch, we can assume that there was a victory on points, after which the Russian army retreated with huge losses. Frederick won and the Russian army retreated again.
                        In the third, Kunesdorf, Friedrich lost (again with a large numerical advantage of the enemy), although this time the Russian army was not alone but with the Austrians allies. In the opinion of the Germans, the Austrians made a decisive contribution to the victory.
                        Officer Frederick II Johann Archengolts, who wrote its history after the end of the Seven Years War, attributed the decisive role in the victory of the Russian-Austrian troops to the counterstrike of the cavalry of the Austrian General Laudon.
                        As a result of the war, Peter III gave up everything he had won and withdrew the army from German territory. Catherine, who replaced him, confirmed this treaty.
                        Where do you see here Russians always beat Prussians as well as the final victory
                      4. Trilobite Master
                        Trilobite Master 21 August 2020 14: 48 New
                        +8
                        Quote: Liam
                        Yes, everything seems clear and obvious.

                        When one thing is obvious to one, and another is not at all obvious.
                        For example, it is obvious to me that out of three major battles the Russians won, one, at Zorndorf, was brought to a draw. And then under Zorndorf, in strategic terms, the victory can rather be attributed to the Russians than the Prussians. The assigned tasks at Zorndorf were carried out by the Russians, the path and with heavy losses, while the losses of the Prussians were not much less. It's like the Battle of Jutland - the losses of the British were higher, but the Germans did not leave the bases until the end of the war - who won?
                        The fact that under Kunersdorf Archengolts praises the Austrians ... Not everyone agrees that it was Laudon who decided the outcome of the battle. In the end, the Russians bore the brunt of the battle, and Saltykov commanded the allied army, and Laudon carried out his orders.
                        As a result of the war, it was the Russians who ended up in Konigsberg and Berlin, and not the French, Swedes or Austrians. And even more so, not Frederick in Riga.
                        Well, as for the antics of Peter III with the conclusion of peace, it has nothing to do with military affairs.
                      5. Liam
                        Liam 21 August 2020 15: 09 New
                        -3
                        Quote: Trilobite Master
                        When one thing is obvious to one, and another is not at all obvious

                        Or one of them owns the topic and the second is desperately floundering in quicksand. By the way, in such cases, experts advise as few unnecessary movements as possible, otherwise with each movement a person buries deeper and deeper.
                        Quote: Trilobite Master
                        The Russians bore the brunt of the battle, and Saltykov commanded the allied army

                        Do not remind who commanded the allied army, for example, at Rymnik, the size of the Russian army and the Austrian and who endured the brunt of the battle?
                        Quote: Trilobite Master
                        it was the Russians who ended up in Konigsberg and Berlin, not the French, Swedes or Austrians.

                        You are very poor at the topic. Start at least with Wikipedia

                        Having taken Prague, Frederick is going to go to Vienna without delay. However, the plans of the blitzkrieg were dealt a blow: the 54-strong Austrian army under the command of Field Marshal L. Down came to the aid of the besieged. On June 18, 1757, in the vicinity of the city of Kolin, the 34-strong Prussian army entered into battle with the Austrians. Frederick II lost this battle, losing 14 thousand people and 45 guns. The heavy defeat not only destroyed the myth of the Prussian commander's invincibility, but also, more importantly, forced Frederick II to lift the blockade of Prague and hastily retreat to Saxony. Soon, the threat that arose in Thuringia from the French and the Imperial Army ("the Caesarians") forced him to leave there with the main forces. Having from that moment a significant numerical superiority, the Austrians won a series of victories over Frederick's generals (at Mois on September 7, at Breslau on November 22) and captured the key Silesian fortresses of Schweidnitz (now Swidnica, Poland) and Breslau (now Wroclaw, Poland). In October 1757, the Austrian general Hadik succeeds in a sudden raid of a flying detachment for a short time to capture the capital of Prussia, the city of Berlin..
                        Quote: Trilobite Master
                        Well, as for the antics of Peter III with the conclusion of peace, it has nothing to do with military affairs.

                        The results of the war are assessed according to the concluded peace treaties
                      6. Trilobite Master
                        Trilobite Master 21 August 2020 16: 48 New
                        +5
                        Quote: Liam
                        Or one of them owns the topic and the second is desperately floundering in quicksand. By the way, in such cases, experts advise as few unnecessary movements as possible, otherwise with each movement a person buries deeper and deeper.

                        Gold words! I am surprised that knowing them so well, you fundamentally behave differently.
                        Quote: Liam
                        Do not remind who commanded the allied army, for example, at Rymnik, the size of the Russian army and the Austrian, and who bore the brunt of the battle?

                        This is not perhaps a battle, on the eve of which Suvorov sent the Prince of Coburg a letter with approximately the following content: "I go to the left, you go to the right, attack with what God has sent. And if you don't come, I will strike alone." laughing
                        But, say personally, I do not take away the honor of the Austrians for this victory. Have you participated? Participated. Have you won? We won. What are you talking about?
                        But we are proud of the victory of Suvorov, not the Austrians. However, the words of pride probably do not apply to you.
                        Quote: Liam
                        You are very poor at the topic. Start at least with Wikipedia

                        In addition to Wikipedia, do you have any advice? smile
                        Quote: Liam
                        succeeds in a sudden raid of a flying detachment for a short time to capture the capital of Prussia, the city of Berlin.

                        Isn't it funny for you to read that? And even more so to refer to it as a fact of significance? No, really? They themselves said:
                        Quote: Liam
                        as little unnecessary movements as possible

                        Honestly - I did not think that you would reach such primitive manipulations. I thought maybe you would refer to the fact that the Austrians also participated in the occupation of Berlin - but no. Surprised. laughing
                        Flying squad. Captured. The capital of Prussia. BERLIN.
                        Not a village, a capital.
                        He did not frighten with a raid, but captured. Everything.
                        The capital of what? Elector of Brandenburg? No, Prussia. The author burns and you are with him.
                        Quote: Liam
                        The results of the war are assessed according to the concluded peace treaties

                        Why are you trying to distort something all the time? Either you are a champion of common sense, or a formalist, decide.
                        You should be well aware that the final peace with Prussia was concluded without taking into account the results of the war. The Germans call this nonsense just that: "The second miracle of the Brandenburg House".
                      7. Liam
                        Liam 21 August 2020 17: 08 New
                        -2
                        Quote: Trilobite Master
                        "I go to the left, you go to the right, attack with what God sent. And if you don't come, I'll hit one."

                        You have a rich imagination, but this is hardly such a good quality for a historian. More like an improvisation for an inter-collective farm fight at a village club than a battle plan great strategist and tactician
                        Fortunately, Prince Coburg was commander-in-chief, the Austrians were 18.000 and the Russians (7.000) were under his command.


                        Quote: Trilobite Master
                        The capital of what? Elector of Brandenburg? No, Prussia. The author burns

                        You may not flash with your mind, but you must sparkle with a feather

                        The Kingdom of Prussia (German Königreich Preußen) is the designation of the Prussian state in the period 1701-1918 during the reign of the Prussian kings. According to the prevailing historical events, the kingdom was proclaimed on the territory of the Duchy of Prussia, although Brandenburg became its core. In this regard, the actual capital of the kingdom was Brandenburg Berlin, although coronations were traditionally held in the historically Prussian Königsberg.
                        Quote: Trilobite Master
                        In addition to Wikipedia, do you have any advice?

                        Of course I can, but you'd better start from scratch
                      8. Trilobite Master
                        Trilobite Master 21 August 2020 20: 15 New
                        +2
                        Still, it's boring with you, as with Bar in the end it turns out. You write, you try, you waste your time, but you cling to one word and let the elephant inflate out of a fly, I don't know through which hole you prefer to do this. I could write one phrase about the capital, the content of your response comment would not change from this. Well, let there be a capital, it doesn't matter to me at all, it's even better. Have the Austrians captured Berlin? Not. Only part of it is the suburb, and then there was no talk of any control over the city. How long were they in it? Half a day. Then they fled headlong, and by the way, they did the right thing. What happened in the end? Hussar raid, nothing more. No, it is, of course, a glorious, dashing business, but it seems to me that if I were in a fever or drunk, I cited such an episode as proof of the victory of the Austrians over the Prussians in the war, then I would simply feel ashamed, honestly. laughing
                        By the way, I have no complaints about the Austrians - they fought competently and made their contribution to the victory over Frederick (as well as over the Turks under Rymnik) honestly. That's just a question - because Russia fought as part of a coalition, its victory ceases to be Russian? Or is it ceasing to be a victory?
                        I probably overestimate you as an opponent, since I start responding to petty quibbles. It's easier with you - to return to the original subject of discussion and until you express yourself in essence, poke like a kitten: who said that? who did this? what it is? laughing
                        Please remind me of this the next time we have a controversy. smile
                      9. Liam
                        Liam 21 August 2020 21: 45 New
                        -1
                        Quote: Trilobite Master
                        You write, you try

                        You write a lot, it cannot be taken away. The truth is mainly lyrical polybuckffie with
                        pathetic attempts to offend.
                        Practice and come again
                  2. Kwas
                    Kwas 22 August 2020 19: 29 New
                    0
                    No, in vain you run into Liam. He even knows about the battle at Colin's, he needs to praise. And he writes the names of the remaining battles correctly, it's not for nothing that Wikipedia is rummaged. Apparently there is nowhere else, there is no library of 5000 volumes at home, he lives in the village, which he found in the wiki, and believes that. Under Kunes, as far as the essence is concerned, he has such a peculiar vision. Under Kunersdorf, of course, Laudon led the Rumyantsev division into a counterattack, and Rumyantsev himself nervously smoked on the sidelines, Saltykov generally fell into despair and prayed to the Lord for deliverance from obvious death. Under Rymnik, on the contrary, Commander-in-Chief Coburg, with his iron will and skillful maneuver, saved the allied armies from inevitable defeat, having won a glorious victory. In general, something like this (ladies, no offense):
                    E: \ Pictures \ Prikols \ MiJ.jpeg
          2. Astra wild
            Astra wild 21 August 2020 20: 54 New
            +1
            Only for blatant rudeness "Mikhail, you almost repeat my principles: to put a minus for rudeness is not an argument. For blatant dibilism and when they mock something that is dear to me.
            P
            S
            Men promise to say that women are emotional fools and prch, and often minus on emotions
          3. Trilobite Master
            Trilobite Master 21 August 2020 20: 59 New
            +1
            Sometimes it seems to me that there are more women here than can be recognized by their nicknames. smile
    2. Astra wild
      Astra wild 21 August 2020 20: 58 New
      0
      You are right: the bar is solid stone and for a long time proves that 2 + 2 = 5
  • kalibr
    21 August 2020 11: 38 New
    +3
    Quote: Liam
    Suvorov. Or ascribed to him. But she prevails in today's "picture of the world" of Russian public opinion regarding the 7-year war

    That's it!
  • Liam
    Liam 21 August 2020 11: 10 New
    -8
    ))) You never know nonsense Suvorov wrote. Starting with Bullet, a fool bayonet well done
    1. kalibr
      21 August 2020 11: 39 New
      -3
      Quote: Liam
      You never know nonsense Suvorov wrote. Beginning with Bullet, a fool bayonet well done

      Totally agree!
      1. Liam
        Liam 21 August 2020 12: 04 New
        -4
        Quote: kalibr
        Quote: Liam
        You never know nonsense Suvorov wrote. Beginning with Bullet, a fool bayonet well done

        Totally agree!

        He especially smiles how, knowing the liberties that Suvorov allowed himself with an estimate of the number of opponents and their losses (write more, why pity their basurmans ..), are taken at face value his interpretation of the battles with the Turks.
        1. kalibr
          21 August 2020 12: 27 New
          -2
          Quote: Liam
          taken at face value, his interpretation of the battles with the Turks.

          "And she feeds on fables ..."
      2. Pane Kohanku
        Pane Kohanku 21 August 2020 12: 23 New
        +9
        Totally agree!

        I disagree with you, Vyacheslav Olegovich. stop In the era of lazy skirmishes, the very fact of a swift attack on you with a cold weapon could turn you to flight. Remember Suvorov's rules: "Speed, eye, onslaught"? And if the retreat turns into a panic ... That's it! request
        By the way, even at the beginning of the 18th century, the tactics of the churchly Caroliners - to quickly get close to the enemy, fire a volley and rush at him hand-to-hand - brought the Swedes their victories. hi
        1. Trilobite Master
          Trilobite Master 21 August 2020 12: 58 New
          +8
          Nikolay, I agree.
          Quote: Pan Kohanku
          "Quickness, eye, onslaught"

          and in the end, as the generalissimo himself said
          I am better than the late Prussian king. By the grace of God, I did not lose battles

          Thoughts about the war of a man who fought all his life and only won to be called stupid ... somehow it will be somewhat arrogant on our part. laughing
          1. Pane Kohanku
            Pane Kohanku 21 August 2020 13: 07 New
            +5
            Thoughts about the war of a man who fought all his life and only won to be called stupid ... somehow it will be somewhat arrogant on our part.

            So I think so, Mikhail. hi
            "I would give all my victories for one Swiss campaign of Suvorov" (Andre Massena).
            1. Liam
              Liam 21 August 2020 14: 22 New
              -2
              Quote: Pan Kohanku
              So I think so, Mikhail.
              “I would give all my victories for one Swiss campaign of Suvorov” (Andre Massena).

              Share the original source of this internet fake?
              1. Pane Kohanku
                Pane Kohanku 21 August 2020 14: 47 New
                +3
                Share the original source of this internet fake?

                And God knows, it's a fake ... it's not a fake ... You think about Suvorov one thing, I - another ... what And hardly any of us will convince each other ... request wink
                1. Liam
                  Liam 21 August 2020 14: 48 New
                  -1
                  You can think anything you want, the main thing is not to rely on Internet fakes.
                2. Undecim
                  Undecim 21 August 2020 15: 06 New
                  +7
                  And God knows, it's a fake ... it's not a fake ...
                  Legend. If the French confirm Napoleon's statement about Borodino, then Massena's statement is accompanied by a replica "according to legend."
                  1. Pane Kohanku
                    Pane Kohanku 21 August 2020 15: 11 New
                    +4
                    Legend. If the French confirm Napoleon's statement about Borodino, then Massena's statement is accompanied by a replica "according to legend."

                    Yes, I read this source too. If you mean Chinyakov:
                    http://istorja.ru/articles.html/france/andre-massena/
                    But my opinion about Suvorov is unchanged.
                  2. Undecim
                    Undecim 21 August 2020 15: 31 New
                    +4
                    I have read the French historian and biographer Charles Mullié, his Biography of Military Celebrities. That would be where the srach burst out if Suvorov's biography was published from there !!! I think that some would demand the use of weapons of mass destruction in Paris.
                  3. Pane Kohanku
                    Pane Kohanku 21 August 2020 15: 38 New
                    +3
                    I have read the French historian and biographer Charles Mullié, his Biography of Military Celebrities. That would be where the srach burst out if Suvorov's biography was published from there !!!

                    Well, you don't need to publish. Let the French know history as they please. This is their business, and I am deeply violet, as they know it. what
                  4. Liam
                    Liam 21 August 2020 16: 01 New
                    +1
                    Are you talking about it?

                    Comme général, Suwarow n'a pas fait faire un pas à l'art militaire en Russie; contemporain du grand Frédéric, il n'avait rien appris; la guerre qu'il fit était la guerre primitive, la guerre sans manœuvres; en présence d'un adversaire habile, et à moins d'une supériorité numérique incontestable comme en Italie, Suwarow eût infailliblement succombé
                  5. Undecim
                    Undecim 21 August 2020 16: 07 New
                    +4
                    Yes, about that.
                  6. Pane Kohanku
                    Pane Kohanku 21 August 2020 16: 10 New
                    +2
                    Yes, about that.

                    dubious statement. Well, they are entitled to their point of view. To each his own.
                  7. Liam
                    Liam 21 August 2020 16: 36 New
                    0
                    There are harder passages there, just scary for Voronezh
                  8. Pane Kohanku
                    Pane Kohanku 21 August 2020 16: 40 New
                    +5
                    There are harder passages there, just scary for Voronezh

                    and God is with them. Let them write what they want.
      3. Liam
        Liam 21 August 2020 15: 23 New
        -1
        It is a fact that Napoleon considered the Battle of Borodino one of the most difficult in his career, and it is also a fact that he considered Borodino to be his victory (and this opinion is shared by all objective historians, including Russian)
        The attempt of colleagues to give this quote as an argument in favor of the victory of the Russians in that battle is slyness, to put it mildly
  • Kote Pan Kokhanka
    Kote Pan Kokhanka 21 August 2020 13: 13 New
    +9
    Quote: kalibr
    Quote: Liam
    You never know nonsense Suvorov wrote. Beginning with Bullet, a fool bayonet well done

    Totally agree!

    No, you are wrong, Vyacheslav!
    In the era of Suvorov, the importance of short hand-to-hand combat was more important than distance. The reason is simple - the wretchedness of the material part of the weapon. Any smooth-bore infantry rifle of that time allowed aimed fire only at a distance of a maximum of 200 steps. The fittings were more accurate, but they were three to four times inferior in rate of fire! So, dense structures of a square or column remain relevant even with the appearance of Brendan's rifles, up to the appearance of machine guns and three-inch guns.
    Even an analysis of the Crimean and Civil War in the United States shows that a decisive advantage is achieved in short - with a bayonet and butt.
    1. Pane Kohanku
      Pane Kohanku 21 August 2020 13: 21 New
      +8
      The reason is simple - the wretchedness of the material part of the weapon.

      The very threat of using a bayonet did not affect the enemy in the best way. Here training and fighting spirit played a role. The Swedes beat ours near Narva - thanks to a quick decisive attack! But we also had an army then - not an army, but "men with muskets," as one of the foreigners sarcastically said.
      Even an analysis of the Crimean and Civil War in the United States shows that a decisive advantage is achieved in short - with a bayonet and butt.

      Interestingly, during the Korean War of 1950-1953, the Americans and other riffraffs who joined them were shocked by the tactics of the "Chinese volunteers". The favorite technique of the Chinese was to get close at night to the enemy's positions, and rush at him in large numbers. And yet, yes - they crushed the number in close combat. fellow By the way, the Americans were also surprised to find Thompson's PP and American individual first-aid kits from the killed Chinese - they went to the Communists from the warehouses of the defeated Kuomintang. hi
      1. Undecim
        Undecim 21 August 2020 14: 25 New
        +7
        The favorite technique of the Chinese was to get close at night to the enemy's positions, and rush at him in large numbers.
        Moreover, the positions were selected in small groups of one and a half to two million people.
        1. Pane Kohanku
          Pane Kohanku 21 August 2020 14: 28 New
          +4
          Moreover, the positions were selected in small groups of one and a half to two million people.

          Yeah, something like that. The Chinese volunteers were commanded by Peng Dehuai - the one who later quarreled with Mao. hi
          1. Liam
            Liam 21 August 2020 14: 37 New
            0
            Quote: Pan Kohanku
            Moreover, the positions were selected in small groups of one and a half to two million people.

            Yeah, something like that. The Chinese volunteers were commanded by Peng Dehuai - the one who later quarreled with Mao. hi

            The number of Chinese losses with this ingenious tactic would be nice to remember
            1. Pane Kohanku
              Pane Kohanku 21 August 2020 14: 41 New
              +5
              The number of Chinese losses with this ingenious tactic would be nice to remember

              AND? They fought like this right up to Damansky - in droves. Probably a national flavor, but they had enough. By the way, despite the losses, the large forces of the Chinese entered into the war were enough to push the Americans and others back to the middle of the peninsula. hi
              1. Liam
                Liam 21 August 2020 14: 47 New
                +1
                Quote: Pan Kohanku
                And?

                I see nothing good in praising the tactics of filling the enemy with corpses
              2. Pane Kohanku
                Pane Kohanku 21 August 2020 14: 49 New
                +7
                I see nothing good in praising the tactics of filling the enemy with corpses

                Do you know the statistics on Korea? Me not. These are Chinese affairs, no one praises them. But specifically for them (at that stage of industrial and military development, of course!) - it was enough. hi
              3. Undecim
                Undecim 21 August 2020 15: 40 New
                +5
                Do you know the statistics on Korea? Me not.
                It couldn't be easier. There is an excellent article by Xu Yan, "The Chinese Forces and their Casualties in the Korean War: Facts and Statistics," which can be downloaded online for a nominal $ 44.
                According to the latest Chinese data, they lost 183 killed and 108 wounded.
              4. Pane Kohanku
                Pane Kohanku 22 August 2020 23: 47 New
                +3
                It couldn't be easier. There is an excellent article by Xu Yan, "The Chinese Forces and their Casualties in the Korean War: Facts and Statistics," which can be downloaded online for a nominal $ 44.

                And what? Am I going to spend $ 44 on an article by some Xue Yan (transcription), on questionable Chinese material? stop wassat
                Viktor Nikolaevich, it seems that the Chinese and Japanese interpretation of history is generally very doubtful? They even made a bunch of heroes on Damansky? wink And in general ... some oddities ...
                Does it make sense for me to study Asian philosophy made for themselves, loved ones? Dismiss! Let me live in my mental world? Where Suvorov is a hero and a genius, for example. soldier And the rest of the opinions (based on sources) I wanted to do the act of defecation from the high bell tower! request honestly and sincerely. Ask historians of any country to rewrite the opinion about their heroes. They'll twist the dummy, won't they? wink True! Why the hell, I'm sorry, should I wring my hands and repent? drinks
                And as for Damansky - Evgeny Ryabushkin, "The Myths of Damansky". He brings Chinese fairy tales very well. hi
              5. Undecim
                Undecim 23 August 2020 11: 24 New
                +2
                Convincingly, you will not say anything. But it's not far from Venya.
              6. Liam
                Liam 23 August 2020 11: 28 New
                0
                The less knowledge the more acts of defecation and their final product
              7. Pane Kohanku
                Pane Kohanku 23 August 2020 21: 10 New
                +3
                The less knowledge the more acts of defecation and their final product

                Tell this to French historians. Nothing personal, but their opinion seems far-fetched to me - in the direction of their loved ones. We are not in a position to quarrel with you, and thank God! stop With respect, Nicholai drinks
                The less knowledge the more acts of defecation and their final product

                In fact, it is true. Seriously. drinks
            2. Pane Kohanku
              Pane Kohanku 23 August 2020 21: 07 New
              +3
              Convincingly, you will not say anything. But it's not far from Venya.

              Venya, the Messire, started several other things. stop Forgive me heartily, and no less generous if you hooked me. yes I remain sincerely your fan drinks But by the way, many of the things I said are true enough right? wink
              Never mind, Viktor Nikolaevich. How many people, so many opinions. Shouldn't our opinions differ at least a little? hi
            3. Undecim
              Undecim 24 August 2020 11: 30 New
              +2
              Shouldn't our opinions differ at least a little?
              Of course they should. I'm not talking about differences of opinion, it's completely natural. I'm talking about extremism in views.
            4. Pane Kohanku
              Pane Kohanku 24 August 2020 11: 35 New
              +4
              Of course they should. I'm not talking about differences of opinion, it's completely natural. I'm talking about extremism in views.

              None. The Lord is with you. drinks haplogroups and ultra-patriots don't interest me.
  • BAI
    BAI 21 August 2020 15: 30 New
    +4
    Interestingly, during the Korean War of 1950-1953, the Americans and other riffraffs who joined them were shocked by the tactics of the "Chinese volunteers". The favorite technique of the Chinese was to get close at night to the enemy's positions, and rush at him in large numbers. And yet, yes - they crushed the number in close combat.

    Getting as close to the enemy as possible is a vital necessity if you do not have technical superiority. Only in close combat it is possible to destroy a more technically equipped enemy. Otherwise, the enemy will destroy you at long distances: machine guns, artillery, aircraft. Therefore, the United States, having technical superiority in all conflicts, is conducting military operations in such a way that they cannot be fought back. If it comes to direct fire contact, they immediately start having problems (except for special forces).
    1. Pane Kohanku
      Pane Kohanku 21 August 2020 15: 35 New
      +4
      Getting as close to the enemy as possible is a vital necessity if you don't have technical superiority.

      The Chinese mainly had small arms and light cannons. Against an enemy with tanks and a lot of aircraft, they could only fight in this way, in fact! request
    2. kalibr
      21 August 2020 20: 03 New
      -1
      Quote: BAI
      Therefore, the United States, having technical superiority in all conflicts, is conducting military operations in such a way that they cannot be fought back.

      The smartest form of war!
      1. Kwas
        Kwas 22 August 2020 19: 44 New
        +1
        Quote: kalibr
        The smartest form of war!

        ... if it works, of course. wink
    3. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave 21 August 2020 21: 19 New
      +2
      (except for special forces).
      Oh-li !!! Let's remember the operation in Mogadishu.
  • Undecim
    Undecim 21 August 2020 17: 17 New
    +4
    Americans and other riffraff who joined them
    It is especially noticeable that everyone who fought on the side of South Korea is a riffraff when you drive through it. Although I have not been to the North, it may be even better there, and only basins and buckets are missing.
    1. Pane Kohanku
      Pane Kohanku 21 August 2020 17: 22 New
      +4
      It is especially noticeable that everyone who fought on the side of South Korea is a riffraff when you drive through it. Although I have not been to the North, it may be even better there, and only basins and buckets are missing.

      And what? drinks Viktor Nikolaevich, EMNIP, was the regime in South Korea in the 1950s even cooler than in North? Did the "economic miracle" begin a little later? wink
      No, they are great for building their Korean dream, sincerely! Yes, for that they are respected. hi Well, and the basins .... Anything happens! laughing
  • kalibr
    21 August 2020 20: 07 New
    +1
    Quote: Kote Pan Kokhanka
    Any smooth-bore infantry rifle of that time allowed aimed fire only at a distance of a maximum of 200 steps. The fittings were more accurate, but they were three to four times inferior in rate of fire! So, dense structures of a square or column remain relevant even with the appearance of Brendan's rifles, up to the appearance of machine guns and three-inch guns.
    Even an analysis of the Crimean and Civil War in the United States shows that a decisive advantage is achieved in short - with a bayonet and butt.

    Thanks, I didn't know. But about Suvorov I have ... "somewhat of my own information." Somehow there will be an article based on it. Only here St. Brendan has nothing to do with rifles.
  • Liam
    Liam 22 August 2020 23: 37 New
    -1
    Quote: Kote Pan Kokhanka
    In the era of Suvorov, the importance of short hand-to-hand combat was more important than remote

    How interesting
    according to the data of Dmitry Tselorungo, the leading researcher of the State Borodino military-historical museum-reserve,

    in the Battle of Borodino, more than two-thirds of the wounds were bullet wounds, a quarter were caused by the use of artillery shells and only five percent were associated with the use of cold weapons
    .
  • rich
    rich 21 August 2020 21: 37 New
    +4
    You never know nonsense Suvorov wrote. Beginning with Bullet, a fool bayonet well done

    This is not nonsense, this is a phrase taken out of context.
    Referring to the written works of Suvorov entitled "The Science of Victory", which were first published after the death of the Generalissimo (the first edition dates back to 1806),

    it is not difficult to find the very reasoning that made it possible to call a bullet a fool, and call a bayonet a fine fellow!
    In the second part of this methodological manual, which is called "Conversation with the soldiers in their language", there is a chapter "Verbal instruction to soldiers."
    There we find the following lines:
    "... Take care of the bullet for three days, and sometimes for a whole campaign, when there is nowhere to take it! Shoot rarely, but accurately. If you use a bayonet, the bullet will cheat, but the bayonet will not cheat. The bullet is stupid, the bayonet is great ..."

    As we can see, the famous words of Suvorov are just taken out of context, separated from their prehistory! Everything is written quite simply: firstly, you need to save bullets, since there will probably be nowhere to get them during a military campaign. This, by the way, is still relevant - the cartridges must be protected! Secondly, a bullet, as the author says, can "cheat", i.e. - miss, make a mistake. There are no such problems with a bayonet.
    1. Kwas
      Kwas 22 August 2020 19: 57 New
      +1
      And there is the following on this topic:
      "Take care of the bullet in the muzzle! Three will jump - kill the first, shoot the second,
      the third bayonet karachun! "
      It is difficult to argue with the then rate of fire.
    2. Liam
      Liam 22 August 2020 22: 05 New
      0
      Quote: Rich
      Everything is written quite simply

      Do not confuse the fantasies of local theorists with the real practice of warfare of that period. The emphasis on bayonet fighting by the end of the 18th century was the lot of the armies that were lagging behind in development, leading to huge losses. Since Frederick II, a bullet and a cannonball reigned on the battlefield, not a bayonet and sabers. ...
      according to the data of Dmitry Tselorungo, the leading researcher of the State Borodino military-historical museum-reserve,

      in the Battle of Borodino, more than two-thirds of the wounds were bullet wounds, a quarter were caused by the use of artillery shells and only five percent were associated with the use of cold weapons
      .
  • d4rkmesa
    d4rkmesa 21 August 2020 15: 12 New
    +1
    Neophytes don't even check the original quotes?
  • tanit
    tanit 21 August 2020 09: 15 New
    +4

    grenadiers and such were.
    Portrait of the Grenadier of the Company of the Palaces Grenadiers M. Kulakov. 1915 year.
    1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 21 August 2020 12: 57 New
      +3
      This veteran from the era of Nicholas I and on his head is the grenadier bear hat of the old guard of Napoleon !!!
      1. tanit
        tanit 21 August 2020 13: 38 New
        +2
        Nicholas. Only the 2nd. And on his head is the "grenadier". Trimmed with fur, as they say (though not seen alive)
        "The company of palace grenadiers is a special separate military unit of the Russian Guard of central subordination, served in the guard of honor under the Russian emperors." (C)
        Years of existence October 2 (14), 1827 - February 4, 1921.
        1. tanit
          tanit 21 August 2020 13: 45 New
          +2
          And so, yes, they appeared under the first Nikolai.
          1. Pane Kohanku
            Pane Kohanku 21 August 2020 16: 37 New
            +4
            And so, yes, they appeared under the first Nikolai.

            Vadim, here is also a famous photo. At the monument to Nicholas I.

            And their hats, it is true, seem to have been copied from Napoleon's grenadiers. drinks
          2. Kote Pan Kokhanka
            Kote Pan Kokhanka 21 August 2020 18: 24 New
            +2
            Quote: tanit
            And so, yes, they appeared under the first Nikolai.

            The unit was formed in 1825 from the veterans of the Patriotic War of 1812. In memory of the expulsion of Napoleon from Russia, they received bear hats as a headdress of the Napoleon's Guard!
      2. Looking for
        Looking for 21 August 2020 14: 48 New
        -7
        "Shpakovskie" last ones. Why are they all so narrow-minded?
        1. kalibr
          21 August 2020 20: 01 New
          +2
          Oh, Sanyok drew! You are welcome to our hut. Something seems to be few clicks ... Want to add some heat? Well, let's pamper at night looking ...
    2. rich
      rich 21 August 2020 23: 34 New
      +1
      Greetings, Vadim hi
      The palace grenadiers wore not grenadiers, but special leather hats with a metal device and hair sultans. From the statement of the Department of the War Ministry in 1834:
      Bear's hat, with a gilded coat of arms and a garnet and a golden kutas with a tassel and a gap in cords of red silk. Ala Napoléon - 140 rubles.
      link https://picturehistory.livejournal.com/1110113.html


      The sketch of the uniform for the company ranks was invented personally by Emperor Nicholas I, who established this company:
      “Wishing to commemorate My special favor to those lower ranks of the Life Guards who showed their courage in the Patriotic War and throughout the continuation of their faithful service until the very end of their term distinguished themselves by diligence, and to their orphans, I recognized it for the good to establish of them at My Court a special company called the Palace Grenadiers, so that they are provided with their content for life and that their service consisted only in police surveillance in the Palaces where My stay will be. Orphans of the lower ranks of the Life Guards who died in the Patriotic War are enrolled as flutists in the company, with further, upon reaching the required age, entering any officer's school of the Empire of their choice.
      From the Supreme Decree of the Sovereign Emperor Nicholas I of October 2 (15), 1827


      A curious moment, the palace grenadiers on shoulder straps wore the monograms not of the current emperor, but of the emperor under which they were enrolled in the company.
      Portrait of the Grenadier of the Company of the Palaces Grenadiers M. Kulakov. 1915 year. Imperial monogram on the shoulder straps of Alexander III

      Palace Grenadiers, in the XVIII - n. XX century a military unit for the protection of the royal palace, consisting of one company (including a special detachment in Moscow). Both the company and the detachment were under the direct jurisdiction of the Minister of the Imperial Court, and the company was also subordinate to the commander of the Guards Corps. The duties of the palace grenadiers were to be on duty in the Winter and Kremlin Palaces, to maintain guard posts at the monuments to Alexander I and Nicholas I, as well as guard of honor at exits, celebrations and festivities in the Highest presence. According to the staff, the company consisted of: a commander with the rank of colonel, 3 officers, 1 sergeant major, 10 non-commissioned officers, 2 flutemen, 3 drummers and 122 grenadiers ..
  • The comment was deleted.
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. kalibr
      21 August 2020 11: 40 New
      +2
      Quote: Mavrikiy
      The caftans of Ivan the Terrible's archers were an order of magnitude more practical and healthier than the kurguz uniforms of the Romanov fashion. For Russia, long-length clothing is more suitable. And in Europe the climate is mild.

      Without any doubt. But ... the fact that we did not understand this once again shows that our rulers were very far from "genius". Here is fashion - yes!
      1. Liam
        Liam 21 August 2020 14: 34 New
        0
        Quote: kalibr
        Quote: Mavrikiy
        The caftans of Ivan the Terrible's archers were an order of magnitude more practical and healthier than the kurguz uniforms of the Romanov fashion. For Russia, long-length clothing is more suitable. And in Europe the climate is mild.

        Without any doubt. But ... the fact that we did not understand this once again shows that our rulers were very far from "genius". Here is fashion - yes!

        You famously write down the Russian rulers as fools. Modestly remind you that from Peter 1 the main theater of operations for the Russian armies is the same European ... where the climate is mild
        1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
          Kote Pan Kokhanka 21 August 2020 19: 45 New
          +4
          ... You famously write down the Russian rulers as fools. Modestly remind that from Peter 1 the main theater of operations for the Russian armies is the same European ... where the climate is mild
          You no less dashingly mix warm with soft!
          Let me remind you modestly that Kamensky and Kutuzov asked the monarch for permission to allow the lower ranks to wear winter uniforms in autumn and spring, moreover, in sunny Bessarabia. Suvorov stormed the snowy peaks in the Alps, and Platov almost killed the entrusted Cossacks in the Orenburg steppes! All this is an order of magnitude south of Moscow, for example!
  • Olgovich
    Olgovich 21 August 2020 09: 28 New
    +4
    Braids, curls and the requirement to powder the hair also caused dissatisfaction.
    This is wild unsanitary conditions, lice and nits, and it was clear to those who survived in the troops.

    Э
    The hairstyle also served the same purposes, even if it was with powder, curls and a braid. After all, she immediately visually brought the army closer to the "top" and at the same time distanced it from various "black people"

    I do not agree: galloons, sewing and the like, yes, served to distinguish and distinguish, but curls and powders served to bring everyone to the same model, so that all the soldiers became similar to each other (to depersonalize them). Thousands of "twins."

    Why was it necessary? At parades, apparently, it looked more pleasant ...
    1. Liam
      Liam 21 August 2020 09: 52 New
      -5
      Quote: Olgovich
      Braids, curls and the requirement to powder the hair also caused dissatisfaction.
      This is wild unsanitary conditions, lice and nits, and it was clear to those who survived in the troops

      You write unscientific bullshit. The case was exactly the opposite - wigs saved from lice and additionally served to protect the head from sliding blows from a saber.
      A literate person would ask himself why wigs were used in all the then European armies for a good hundred years before stupid maxims were printed
      1. Undecim
        Undecim 21 August 2020 10: 21 New
        +7
        You write unscientific bullshit And they themselves are exactly the same. From the end of the XNUMXth century to about the beginning of the XNUMXth century, in fact, in almost all European armies, wigs were used, but only by officers. Soldiers in any army did not wear wigs, but hairstyles had to be appropriate, for which, of course, not modern gels and foams were used, but lard and flour. This is unlikely to contribute to the protection against lice. Likewise the wig.
        All this was an imitation of civilian fashion in military uniform. as the author correctly writes.
        1. Liam
          Liam 21 August 2020 10: 24 New
          -2
          Quote: Undecim
          Soldiers in no army wore wigs

          Seriously?
          1. Undecim
            Undecim 21 August 2020 10: 26 New
            +5
            Give an example.
            1. Senior seaman
              Senior seaman 21 August 2020 11: 03 New
              +2



              And even the soldiers of revolutionary France did not immediately abandon wigs.
              1. Pane Kohanku
                Pane Kohanku 21 August 2020 11: 12 New
                +5
                Ivan, the Swedish guard is very well depicted - the second picture, on the left. I mean that they have not forgotten about the "status weapon" - sergeants' halberds and officer's esponton. The shape of the esponton blade also changed. I bow! drinks
              2. Undecim
                Undecim 21 August 2020 11: 31 New
                +8
                These are not wigs, this is a soldier's braid, Soldatenzopf, as it was called in Prussia and where it was pushed to the extreme. They even drew cartoons on the Prussians.

                This braid was braided from their own hair, and the invoice was used only in the absence of it.
                It has nothing to do with a wig.
                1. Pane Kohanku
                  Pane Kohanku 21 August 2020 11: 44 New
                  +4
                  These are not wigs, this is a soldier's braid, Soldatenzopf, as it was called in Prussia and where it was pushed to the extreme.

                  Viktor Nikolaevich, have our braids been canceled after Friedland?
            2. Liam
              Liam 21 August 2020 11: 04 New
              -5
              Buckles, braids are elements of a wig
              1. Undecim
                Undecim 21 August 2020 11: 32 New
                +7
                Especially if from your hair - like a wig. So where is the evidence?
                1. Liam
                  Liam 21 August 2020 11: 42 New
                  -1
                  Suvorov shared his experience of wearing a uniform hairstyle in the chapter "On decoration and cleanliness." Buckles worried Alexander Vasilyevich first of all, because they were always visible and, unlike tethered braids needed constant care,
                  1. Undecim
                    Undecim 21 August 2020 13: 15 New
                    +8
                    Buckles cared
                    Buckles are curls that needed to be curled. The most famous example is sideways.
                    In Russian-language literature, there is a mention of the fact that Paul I introduced "on the Prussian model, hard wigs with beads" for soldiers. Such a wig is not found in either the English-speaking or German-speaking literature. There is no description of it in the Russian language either. That is, it is someone's invention.
                    For hairstyles, read a military history magazine.
                    http://history.milportal.ru/pudra-ne-porox/
                    1. Pane Kohanku
                      Pane Kohanku 21 August 2020 13: 47 New
                      10
                      In Russian-language literature, there is a mention of the fact that Paul I introduced "on the Prussian model, hard wigs with beads" for soldiers. Such a wig is not found in either the English-speaking or German-speaking literature. There is no description of it in the Russian language either. That is, it is someone's invention.

                      Artifice! Viktor Nikolaevich, that's what Wikipedia writes (marvel at the idiocy! angry ):
                      During the time of Paul I, soldiers' hard wigs with curls and a plait were introduced in the army, following the Prussian model, which were supposed to be wetted with beer or kvass and sprinkled with flour. About them, the proverbial phrase attributed to Suvorov is well known: “powder is not gunpowder, bullets are not cannons, a scythe is not a cleaver; I am not a German, but a natural hare. " However, such a wig was not a completely useless invention: a steel bar was hidden in the braid, protecting the neck from a saber blow from behind.
                      Who invented this? What hamster wrote that? am
                      The most disgusting thing is that this nonsense was transferred to the annotation of the Kultura channel about the opening of the Pavel I and Suvorov exhibition in Gatchina:
                      Paul introduced according to the Prussian model wigs with curls for officers, and the soldiers were forced to construct something similar from their own hair.
                      https://tvkultura.ru/article/show/article_id/351506/
                      We were with Anton at this exhibition. There were no wigs there. request
                      I recommend this book to everyone:

                      Section "Innovations". Memories of A.M. Turgenev, how he was appointed one of the adjutants of the new emperor: “… At 5 o'clock in the morning I was already at the company yard; two Gatchina costume designers, experts in the highest degree of art, to dress the hair on the head according to the approved form and fit the ammunition according to the charter, were already ready; they instantly took possession of my head in order to fool her according to the approved form, and the fun began. They put me on a bench in the middle of the room, cut off my hair in front to fit a comb, then one of the dressers, a little less than a fathom in height, began to rub the front of my head with finely ground chalk; if God bless me and live another 73 years in this world, I will not forget this trick!

                      For 5 minutes and many 6 minutes, the diligent rubbing of my head by the dresser brought me to such a state that I was frightened, I thought that some kind of infirmity had happened to me: my eyes saw the room, everyone and everything in it was spinning. Millions of sparks flew in all space, tears flowed from the eyes in a stream. I asked the duty officer on duty to stop Mr. Dresser's action for a few minutes, to rest my unfortunate head. My request was respected, and the professor of head-fooling in form was pleased to announce to the watchmaster that there was enough dry tricks on the head, now it was only necessary to moisten and dry; I shuddered when I heard the dresser's verdict on my head.

                      Wet operation begins. In order not to soak my linen on me, instead of a powder-maker, they wrapped me in matting bag; the dresser stood in front of me exactly in two halves of his face and, typing artelnago kvass into his mouth, began to spray my skull from his mouth, as from a fire pipe; as soon as he moistened the seam of his head, another dresser began to pour abundant powder on his head with flour in all directions; at the end of this operation, they combed my hair with a comb and ordered me to sit still, not to turn my head, to give time to form on the head of a cloister bark; behind me in the hair they tied an iron rod, 8 inches long, to form a braid in shape, the brooches were attached to me with felt, of a huge nature, by means of a wire bent in an arc that went around the skull of the head and, leaning on it, held felt falconets on both sides, at a height half of the ear. By 9 o'clock in the morning, the bark composed of flour hardened on the skull of my head, like the erupted lava of a volcano, and under this cover I could stand without damage in the rain or snow for several hours, like a marble statue erected in the garden. They began to dress my body and adorned me, not like a bride, but like a stuffed animal supplied in vegetable gardens to frighten crows. Seeing myself in the mirror, I could not understand why they had transformed me from a human to an ugly scarecrow of a garden. "

                      Where is there a wig?
                      here's another in form:
                      https://catherine-catty.livejournal.com/39293.html
                      The most famous example is sideways.

                      I'll go and call Albert! wink Let him tell you! drinks
                      1. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar 21 August 2020 19: 28 New
                        +6
                        Hello! About sideways? They are curled by daily winding on a finger, I have not heard about curlers from the Orthodox and flour and other vechendals))
                      2. Kote Pan Kokhanka
                        Kote Pan Kokhanka 21 August 2020 19: 55 New
                        +3
                        Quote: Krasnodar
                        Hello! About sideways? They are curled by daily winding on a finger, I have not heard about curlers from the Orthodox and flour and other vechendals))

                        Albert Read carefully what you have written !!! wink
                        At the very least, you should see the vechendaly, why should you hear them !!! laughing
                      3. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar 21 August 2020 20: 44 New
                        +4
                        No, well, suddenly, who thinks that they wound curls on personal belongings, or sideways laughing
          2. kalibr
            21 August 2020 11: 44 New
            +5
            Quote: Liam
            Buckles, braids are elements of a wig

            No it is wrong
    2. Pane Kohanku
      Pane Kohanku 21 August 2020 13: 29 New
      +4
      not modern gels and foams, but lard and flour. This is unlikely to help protect against lice.

      under Paul's rule, the head was sprinkled with kvass before flour was applied. National product, so to speak. hi
  • Olgovich
    Olgovich 21 August 2020 11: 10 New
    +6
    Quote: Liam
    You are writing unscientific bullshit.wigs saved from lice

    belay fool lol
    You write this garbage on paper, roll it up into a tube and, yes! yes

    The soldier has been shaved baldly, which means there are no lice. And then they put on a wig to ... did he collect lice? Lice like that do not care - they live in a wig and in the folds of clothes.
    Quote: Liam
    served to protect the head from sliding blows from a saber.

    wig from .... saber?

    Let's go you "protect" its head ,,, WIG from a blow, at least, a fist. Maybe a saucepan?

    You obviously skipped the army, yes ...
    1. Liam
      Liam 21 August 2020 11: 44 New
      -3
      Quote: Olgovich
      The soldier has been shaved baldly, which means there are no lice.

      Seriously? And you read the memories of the soldiers of the 2nd World War. There are no hairs, all have their hair cut bald or very short, but there is no life from lice.
      1. Olgovich
        Olgovich 21 August 2020 11: 52 New
        +6
        Quote: Liam
        Seriously? And you read the memories of the soldiers of the 2nd World War. There are no hairs, all have their hair cut bald or very short, but there is no life from lice.

        but NOT on the HEAD!
        1. Liam
          Liam 21 August 2020 11: 56 New
          -3
          And what does it matter to a soldier?
          The lack of wigs did not solve the problem of lice in any way, so all these screams about powder-nonsense
          1. Olgovich
            Olgovich 21 August 2020 12: 09 New
            +7
            Quote: Liam
            And what does it matter to a soldier?


            With head lice on my head, as I understand it. did not stumble, yes. That's why you are talking about wigs "from ... lice". lol

            By the way, on, um, in short, at the bottom of the body - ALSO lice wig- helps? lol yes
  • VIP
    VIP 21 August 2020 19: 31 New
    +2
    "wigs saved from yours" so wear a wig
  • Pane Kohanku
    Pane Kohanku 21 August 2020 10: 03 New
    +5
    Grenadier officer of the Life Dragoon Regiment, 1756-1762 Viskovatov A. V. Part 3. Clothes and weapons of the Russian troops with the addition of information about the banners and standards in the reign of Emperor Peter III, and about the Holstein troops, 1762. SPb., Military printing house, 1842

    Here is another private of this regiment:

    It was the favorite regiment of Peter III, and he was rumored to have liked to don his uniform - although I did not find any portraits of him in that uniform. The caftan was white, and the décor cloth was of little pronounced color - celadon... Go remember! drinks
    1. Mavrikiy
      Mavrikiy 21 August 2020 11: 03 New
      +1
      In ceramic production, celadon is a special type of glaze, as well as a specific pale grayish-greenish shade of green, which is also called celadon. This type of pottery was invented in ancient China, specifically in the Zhejiang province.
      Quote: Pan Kohanku
      Peter III, and he is rumored to have liked to put on his uniform - although I have not found his portraits in this uniform.

      And what does not suit the wedding portrait in the article?
      1. Pane Kohanku
        Pane Kohanku 21 August 2020 11: 05 New
        +3
        And what does not suit the wedding portrait in the article?

        Mauritius, you are our attentive, you surprised me! good By the way, it looks like! wink
        1. Pane Kohanku
          Pane Kohanku 21 August 2020 11: 17 New
          +3
          And what does not suit the wedding portrait in the article?

          but interesting .. the uniform is similar. But were the Life Dragoons part of the Holstein Guard? And they arrived in Russia after the wedding ... what
          1. Rosiable
            Rosiable 22 August 2020 18: 20 New
            +1
            The portrait in the text is most likely not a wedding portrait, but a later one. This can be seen from older faces and figures, and from the hairstyle (the hairstyle of Pyotr Fedorovich in that portrait is from the 50s, he was combed in a different way in the 40s, he wore a longer wig)
            1. Pane Kohanku
              Pane Kohanku 22 August 2020 22: 16 New
              +2
              The portrait in the text is most likely not a wedding portrait, but a later one.

              Thank you sincerely! drinks
  • Trilobite Master
    Trilobite Master 21 August 2020 11: 16 New
    +9
    Vyacheslav Olegovich, did I correctly understand the main message of the article: "if I have a reputation for being a fool, whatever I do, it will be stupid"? Or more simply: "PR is the head of everything." smile
    Poor fellow Peter, in general, tried to rule the country, and obviously wanted "the best", but with his reputation as either a holy fool of a Prussophile, or just an infantile sensible clown, nothing could come of it.
    1. kalibr
      21 August 2020 11: 48 New
      +5
      I read about it that he was ... an idealist. He believed in the power of his position as emperor. And yes - I wanted the best, but from my own point of view.
      1. Trilobite Master
        Trilobite Master 21 August 2020 12: 07 New
        +7
        The emperor plays the violin
        The state is leaving the hands ...

        Great song, in my opinion.
        Do you remember the movie "Jack the Eight - American"?
        There was an episode when the main character gathered a crop of tobacco and tried unsuccessfully to sell cigars to fellow villagers. And then the local kulaks took away all this crop from him, ground the cigars into powder and began to sell the makhorka "at a speculative price" and very successfully. It reminded me of the situation: Ekaterina did almost the same thing as Peter, but with a slightly different sauce and, most importantly, she had a different reputation ...
        1. kalibr
          21 August 2020 12: 30 New
          +6
          Exactly! The uniforms were narrowed, but the colors were preserved! "Our woman!" By the way, the book Jack Vosmerkin ... is much more interesting than the movie!
          1. Trilobite Master
            Trilobite Master 21 August 2020 12: 44 New
            +4
            But I have not read the book and probably will not get there - it is not interesting. Anyway, at this stage of life. smile
          2. Fat
            Fat 21 August 2020 13: 55 New
            +3
            Quote: kalibr
            Exactly! The uniforms were narrowed, but the colors were preserved! "Our woman!" By the way, the book Jack Vosmerkin ... is much more interesting than the movie!

            Your truth! The movie is just bad
            1. Van 16
              Van 16 21 August 2020 15: 52 New
              +2
              Jack Vosmerkin, the book and the film are completely opposite in meaning. And yes, the book is very, very interesting.
              1. Fat
                Fat 21 August 2020 16: 17 New
                +3
                Again your truth. In the book, Vosmerkin achieved the embodiment of the idea. And in the cinema, it's just a stupid person.
                1. Fat
                  Fat 21 August 2020 16: 19 New
                  +2
                  I wrote a stupid man
                  1. Fat
                    Fat 21 August 2020 16: 22 New
                    +2
                    A couple more? Here is the editor .. I wanted to sound the letter D ...
    2. Kwas
      Kwas 22 August 2020 20: 11 New
      0
      I heard that Peter III was being prepared for the Swedish crown, and that this preparation included Russophobia. After that, instead of a cultured and benevolent Sweden, could he accept with his tender heart "This barbarian empire"? By the way, he did not hide his sympathies. And what this can lead to, I did not think. Looks like his "court intrigue" was not taught.
  • arturpraetor
    arturpraetor 21 August 2020 13: 53 New
    +7
    Braids, curls and the requirement to powder the hair also caused dissatisfaction.

    What is most amusing is that Frederick the Great, at the beginning of his reign, canceled bouqules and wigs (bouquets remained only as an element of a natural hairstyle), and left the powder exclusively for the holidays. Braids, if they were natural, had a practical meaning.

    If anything, I am quoting Friedrich der Grosse himself, on the topic of wigs and other rubbish:
    This is appropriate for women and dolls they play with, and not for a soldier who has devoted himself to defending the fatherland and all the hardships of campaigns. The dandies are brave only on the floor, but they hide from the gun, because it often spoils the hair
    In general, there is a distortion here - the Prussian army as it really was, and the Prussian army as it was represented in our country, these are two big differences. In fact, many of the positive reforms carried out after the Seven Years War in Russia were borrowed from the former. And all the bad things - like obsession with watch parades, wigs and powder at the end of the XNUMXth century, etc. - if we borrowed from the Prussians, then either imaginary, or even pre-Frederick, i.e. half a century or even a century ago. But who is to blame for this? Probably not Friedrich ...
    The hairstyle also served the same purposes, even with powder, curls and a braid. After all, she immediately visually brought the army closer to the "top" and at the same time removed it from various "black people". So whatever the cost of this fashion, its social significance simply cannot be overestimated!

    Everything is much simpler. Scythe, nicknamed the "rat's tail", in that configuration had a practical meaning - an iron bar was inserted into it, and thus the neck in the region of the ridge was protected from saber blows. Moreover, with the help of special chains (grenadiers) or cords (hats), a headdress was fixed behind the braid (it is important that it be natural, not an overhead - but in principle Friedrich did not like wigs), which also acted as a protective element for the head. The hat, or grenadier, was thus securely fixed on the soldier's head, one could not be afraid that in the heat of battle they would accidentally fly off, or from a banal wind. False Buckles & Wigs in the Prussian army, it was Frederick the Great who also abolished, although they sometimes met with officers. But again, there were natural curls, which, as a rule, formed quite lush curls in the temple area, and SUDDENLY they also had some practical meaning - since a shock of hair gave at least minimal protection of the temples from blows with blunt objects (like a butt). Finally, grease and powder the hair according to the charter, it was allowed only for shows, parades and services, but even so under Frederick salting and powdering hair was not always used in designated cases - Frederick, having learned HOW MUCH it is worth to salt and powder the hair of his entire army once, launched a large-scale campaign against "excesses ", and preferred that his soldiers and officers just look clean and tidy, since this did not hit the military coffers so much.
    1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 21 August 2020 20: 03 New
      +3
      Artyom, that's right! But after the death of Mother Elizabeth, the ball in the Russian army was ruled by the losers in the Prussian army and the Glostians! Likewise, all this played with Paul!
      1. arturpraetor
        arturpraetor 21 August 2020 20: 14 New
        +4
        Yes, Paul himself was a very peculiar ruler. Some things he had quite well and soundly arranged, but watch parades are his personal quirk, as well as the revival of the Prussian form, and a caricature, after the generally correct progress under Potemkin. So it's not that simple. In general, I got the impression that in the middle of the XNUMXth century we invented some kind of "clown" version of Prussia, and then sacredly believed that it really was. And someone scolded her, and someone borrowed something that the Prussians did not actually have, or which they had long ago abandoned, i.e. something that did not exist in real life, but was in fictional, "clown" Prussia. A paradoxical and comic situation, it's a pity that such tyranny was happening here, and not in some Saxony, Hanover or somewhere else ...
        1. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 21 August 2020 23: 05 New
          +3
          Hello Artem! There is a wonderful "alternative" on the theme of Peter III, "Wings of the Empire". Haven't you read it?
          1. arturpraetor
            arturpraetor 21 August 2020 23: 14 New
            +3
            Greetings, dear colleague! Unfortunately no. According to AI, the Chukchi is more a writer than a reader wassat
            1. 3x3zsave
              3x3zsave 21 August 2020 23: 37 New
              +4
              It's a pity. The author is exceptional! By the way, I also walked through the "gishpants", although I did not finish it.
      2. rich
        rich 22 August 2020 00: 15 New
        +3
        There is a widespread belief that after the Potemkin reforms, which gave the uniform maximum functionality, Pavel changed the Russian army in the Prussian manner of the middle of the XNUMXth century ("everything became German again, got frustrated, strained"
        This is not entirely true. For the new Pavlovsk uniform, warm winter things were first introduced: special warm vests and, for the first time in Russian military history, an overcoat. Prior to that, since the time of Peter I, the only warm thing in the army was an epancha (a cloak made of simple matter). The soldiers had to buy their own winter clothes from their own funds and wear them only with the permission of their superiors. During World War II, Pavlov's overcoat saved the lives of thousands of soldiers.
        Also, the emperor introduced guard sheepskin coats and felt boots for sentries in the winter season. In the guardroom, there should be as many pairs of boots as necessary so that each shift of sentries puts on dry shoes.
        1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
          Kote Pan Kokhanka 22 August 2020 05: 56 New
          +1
          Also, the emperor introduced guard sheepskin coats and felt boots for sentries in the winter season. In the guardroom, there should be as many pairs of boots as necessary so that each shift of sentries puts on dry shoes.

          This system existed until 2011 in the traffic police and the institutions of the Ministry of Internal Affairs. At -30, sheepskin coats, vachegs and felt boots were raked out of the guardhouse. True, only the posts on their territory carried the service, but still they took care of the health of the guys! General Guk in UrYuI led knitted hats with slits for the eyes and mouth for outdoor outfits. They dressed them with a terrible "dubak" under a hat with earflaps.
          There is such a miracle at the checkpoint (the sheepskin coat is older than him, the boots are his peers, only the hat with the tied ears and the new cockade) is not aesthetically pleasing, but the most important thing is that it is warmer and healthier in the service.
        2. Astra wild
          Astra wild 22 August 2020 16: 19 New
          +1
          With all due respect to Valery and Vyacheslav Olegovich, Pavel was much smarter than Peter 3.
          He analyzed all the projects of the parents and what happened. By the way, there is an assumption that Pavel's surname is Saltykov, and not Romanov. In that case, the Saltykovs were the ruling dynasty?
          1. kalibr
            22 August 2020 17: 58 New
            0
            Quote: Astra wild
            Paul was much smarter than Peter 3.

            But he loved and remembered his father, but for some reason he hated his mother. Why would?
            1. Pane Kohanku
              Pane Kohanku 22 August 2020 22: 56 New
              +2
              But he loved and remembered his father, but for some reason he hated his mother. Why would?

              Because his mother herself hated him. They had a very interesting system of relationships, which I would not wish on anyone. request
              And when you have no one ... You can mentally grab any image that contradicts your mother! hi
              The situation is as follows, Vyacheslav Olegovich:
              1. Peter practically did not see Paul. The little Tsarevich was brought up not by his mother, but by the Empress Elizabeth. She herself took the child from her parents. Catherine will then do the same with her grandchildren, Alexander and Konstantin. hi
              2. Yes, Paul "crowned" Peter's corpse. Moreover, he instructed to carry the crown to the elderly Alexei Orlov - one of the alleged killers of papa. He whined and cried, hoping to scoff himself with the words that legs do not carry ... Pavel barked: "Take it and carry it!" Orlov had some strength again from somewhere! I got up and carried it ... True, then I sobbed for a long time, according to memories ... laughing
              But what oddities had the new emperor acquired by this time? The Gatchina recluse in knightly thoughts (see my comment above on the thread). AND? This is not love ... a kind of salutation of "knightly honor" in the understanding of Paul. request
              3. Did you hate your mother? So they brought up - reign... Nikita Panin brought up, put the best thoughts in half with Porosin. And you are an adult ... and mama does not give up the throne ... and for almost thirty years everyone has been wiping their feet about you ... what
              The Orlov family received 17 million for the entire time, from 1762 to 1783. The Gatchina hermit received 120 thousand a year. Almost the same amount was received by the new favorite of the mother only for clothes ... negative
              (A. Spaschansky, "Gatchina in the second half of the 2019th century. The birth of a residence", St. Petersburg, Parity, 174, p. 3. The book was purchased in the presence of Anton "3xXNUMXzsave").
              So who is to blame for the question of Paul's behavior? Is he himself or a mamma with a bunch of degenerate sharks? angry
              I don’t want to say anything for Father Pavel. The heir was the last knight.
        3. kalibr
          22 August 2020 17: 59 New
          0
          Quote: Rich
          special warm vests

          On hare fur!
          1. Pane Kohanku
            Pane Kohanku 22 August 2020 23: 18 New
            +2
            On hare fur!

            Paul commanded to build barracks, and not to burden the "grateful peyzan" by standing. Imagine if several soldiers were accommodated in any of our apartment owners? And this was everywhere, except for St. Petersburg!
            Paul made peace with Persia.
            And as for parade parades ... It was necessary to bring to life the shattered Petersburg public, especially the military, which was more involved in balls and theaters than in service. Paul did this. hi yes, it was "shock therapy" which was not accepted! But appetite comes with eating, and the precedents of the displeasure of the noble but unbalanced emperor only grew ... Hence the laws, moreover, of a clearly precedent nature - from a specific event
  • VIP
    VIP 21 August 2020 18: 00 New
    +4
    A system of signs was required that would allow one to simultaneously determine the social status and occupation ", but without powder and broccoli, not an option to do it?
    1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 21 August 2020 20: 04 New
      +3
      Many saved on powder, replacing it with flour. It was not recommended to get caught in the rain !!!
      1. Astra wild
        Astra wild 22 August 2020 16: 05 New
        +3
        In fact, powder has traditionally been expensive. In the 4th grade, Svetlana Adrianovich told us girls the history of cosmetics.
        1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
          Kote Pan Kokhanka 22 August 2020 17: 40 New
          +2
          You are in luck with the teachers! hi
  • Astra wild
    Astra wild 21 August 2020 18: 54 New
    +3
    Vyacheslav Olegovich, THANK YOU for your work. As always: interesting and bright.
    But please don't get angry about comments on the article.
    1. kalibr
      21 August 2020 19: 56 New
      +2
      Quote: Astra wild
      about comments on the article

      Yours?
      1. Astra wild
        Astra wild 22 August 2020 15: 55 New
        +2
        Yes. Quite right
  • Astra wild
    Astra wild 21 August 2020 20: 27 New
    +7
    "the victim of the crime stands on the arm with the murderer" in fairness: according to the official version, he died a natural death, and not officially strangled by Grigory Orlov, but not by Catherine 2.
    THERE IS NO indisputable evidence that Catherine ordered the murder of Peter 3, and if so, she is not guilty. Presumption of innocence.
    Colleagues: district police, opera, escort and others with legal education will correct me if I was mistaken.
    1. kalibr
      22 August 2020 17: 57 New
      +1
      Quote: Astra wild
      THERE IS NO indisputable evidence that Catherine ordered the murder of Peter 3, and if so, she is not guilty.

      But indirect above the roof. "Who benefits from?" - that's all!
    2. Kwas
      Kwas 22 August 2020 20: 20 New
      +1
      Legally, you are right. And in fact, she hardly gave such an order, except that she looked Grigory meaningfully in the eyes, but not a fact. The fact is different. Putting him to look after the deposed emperor, she should have clearly and unequivocally stated "... and so that the hair from his head does not fall!" And this was clearly not said, apparently there was an opposite hint. Either he guessed it himself, or for reasons of his own safety, or both.
  • Kwas
    Kwas 22 August 2020 18: 23 New
    +1
    Quote: Trilobite Master
    The battle of Borodino is a typical draw with the advantage of the French.

    In the sense that you said, this is exactly what, in the end, "the Russians always beat the French."
  • Kwas
    Kwas 22 August 2020 18: 57 New
    +1
    Quote: Liam
    You are very poor at the topic. Start at least with Wikipedia

    Don't read Wikipedia at night. It is especially harmful to look for any historical truth there. No, sometimes she is there, but any message from there requires the most thorough verification.
  • Kwas
    Kwas 22 August 2020 20: 28 New
    +1
    The soldier is very pleased that his hair was cut;
    Vivat, vivat that they cut their hair;
    May God grant him health, Who invented this;
    Vivat, vivat, who invented this.

    Got rid of powder, pins, hairpins, bacon,
    Vivat, vivat, got rid of everything;
    Go away, impudent powder, nasty, nasty fat,
    And now we will exclaim "Vivat, vivat!"

    ("Soldier's Song for the Potemkin Uniform")
  • sivuch
    sivuch 23 August 2020 10: 09 New
    0
    I don’t know, maybe someone already wrote. so I repeat: the grenadier is almost the most uncomfortable headdress. Not even a sun shade. And when it rains, all the water is gently drained to the soldier by the collar.
    1. Astra wild
      Astra wild 23 August 2020 18: 12 New
      0
      Peter III thought differently about this
      1. sivuch
        sivuch 24 August 2020 05: 58 New
        0
        Well, yes, not for his collar. In general, if he thought, it was only that since Frederick had such caps in the army, then he needed to go to the Russian one.